• Report: #409480

Complaint Review: J.P. Morgan Chase Bank

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  • Submitted: Thu, January 08, 2009
  • Updated: Fri, July 31, 2009

  • Reported By:Mesa Arizona
J.P. Morgan Chase Bank
www.chase.com Mesa, Arizona U.S.A.
  • Phone:
  • Web:
  • Category: Banks

J.P. Morgan Chase Bank online banking inaccurate they overdraft your overdraft fees for more money Mesa Arizona

*Consumer Comment: Charles1919...

*Consumer Comment: These rebuttals miss the point

*Consumer Comment: These rebuttals miss the point

*Consumer Comment: These rebuttals miss the point

*Consumer Comment: These rebuttals miss the point

*Consumer Comment: Online Banking

*Consumer Comment: Online Banking

*Consumer Comment: Online Banking

*Consumer Comment: Online Banking

*Consumer Suggestion: It is not difficult to keep up a check register

*Consumer Suggestion: It is not difficult to keep up a check register

*Consumer Suggestion: It is not difficult to keep up a check register

*Consumer Suggestion: It is not difficult to keep up a check register

*Consumer Comment: You can't use online banking to determine your balance...

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My husband and I use our debit cards for practically everything and have auto-debited items and many transactions, so it's pretty difficult to keep a paper register.

I check my online balance everyday and rely on that balance to be fairly accurate especially with debit card purchases. After hundreds of dollars in overdraft fees, I give up on Chase and am closing my account. They do not have "real time" online banking. You never know what your balance is. They post debit/credit items days later (up to 6 days) then 20 items clear at once and the smallest ones clear last each with a $35 overdraft fee. I had a branch bank balance of $98 and when I came home and checked the computer I was negative $38??? Customer service tells you that their systems update at different times.

The whole point is not about lack of funds, it is the deceitful practice in which Chase runs their online banking. Especially for those of us who rely on it for accuracy.

Example: Tonight's online banking shows Monday's items cleared today (Thursday), Tuesday's items cleared today (Thurs.) with 3 overdrafts ($105 fee charged) and Wednesday's items cleared (Thurs) with 4 more overdrafts ($140 fee). If Monday's and Tuesday's didn't clear until Thursday, why are Wednesday's clearing at midnight (Thurs. a.m.) with overdraft fees? The $105 overdraft fee caused Wed's. items to be negative. I had no chance to avoid a second overdraft fee because of the way they post and clear the items.

Basically they overdraft the overdraft, giving you no time to pay the first overdraft and bring your balance up. All I can do is change banks to one that has real time banking and hope that somebody eventually investigates Chase on this double dipping. This seems to be a common complaint with Chase when I searched on the internet.

Niteowl7
Mesa, Arizona
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/08/2009 03:10 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/JP-Morgan-Chase-Bank/Mesa-Arizona-85207/JP-Morgan-Chase-Bank-online-banking-inaccurate-they-overdraft-your-overdraft-fees-for-mo-409480. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Charles1919...

AUTHOR: Edgeman - (U.S.A.)

Charles wrote:

"My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it."

Response: Balancing a check register has everything to do with the OP's report.


"Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of 'automatic payments' as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable."

Response: Fine, but you do so knowing that online banking and ATM balance inquiries are not accurate methods for learning your account balance for the reasons stated above. It's your money, do as you wish but using inaccurate tools to learn your account balance is a great way to overdraft your account.


"Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites."

Response: And yet you are still responsible for managing your own account with your own check register. The bank is not your accountant.

"Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, 'gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry.'"

Response: You can always choose to stay within your account balance. You agreed to the terms and conditions and they told you how those transactions could be processed. If you go back and overdraft your account knowing that the bank will more than likely process from largest to smallest, then you have essentially donated your money to the bank.
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#2 Consumer Comment

These rebuttals miss the point

AUTHOR: Charles1919 - (U.S.A.)

My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it.

Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of "automatic payments" as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable.
The bank is the dominant party to your business relationship. It is not a business meeting of equals, Chapter 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code is the settled authority on this area of law. It proscribes the unbreakable dute of fiduciary responsibility on the bank. This doctrine of fairness is further defined in case law of trusts, where it is held that even the "intent of fairness" is not sufficient. It must exhibit "honesty of conduct." They may not profit from their advantageous position over a client.

What does that have to do with NSF fees?

Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites.

Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, "gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry."

If this ever gets before a judge and jury, I think we can predict the outcome. Oh and by the way, there are at the present time ten class actions suits pending against Chase. Visit www.wamu-chase-ripoff.com
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#3 Consumer Comment

These rebuttals miss the point

AUTHOR: Charles1919 - (U.S.A.)

My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it.

Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of "automatic payments" as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable.
The bank is the dominant party to your business relationship. It is not a business meeting of equals, Chapter 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code is the settled authority on this area of law. It proscribes the unbreakable dute of fiduciary responsibility on the bank. This doctrine of fairness is further defined in case law of trusts, where it is held that even the "intent of fairness" is not sufficient. It must exhibit "honesty of conduct." They may not profit from their advantageous position over a client.

What does that have to do with NSF fees?

Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites.

Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, "gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry."

If this ever gets before a judge and jury, I think we can predict the outcome. Oh and by the way, there are at the present time ten class actions suits pending against Chase. Visit www.wamu-chase-ripoff.com
Respond to this report!
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#4 Consumer Comment

These rebuttals miss the point

AUTHOR: Charles1919 - (U.S.A.)

My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it.

Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of "automatic payments" as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable.
The bank is the dominant party to your business relationship. It is not a business meeting of equals, Chapter 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code is the settled authority on this area of law. It proscribes the unbreakable dute of fiduciary responsibility on the bank. This doctrine of fairness is further defined in case law of trusts, where it is held that even the "intent of fairness" is not sufficient. It must exhibit "honesty of conduct." They may not profit from their advantageous position over a client.

What does that have to do with NSF fees?

Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites.

Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, "gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry."

If this ever gets before a judge and jury, I think we can predict the outcome. Oh and by the way, there are at the present time ten class actions suits pending against Chase. Visit www.wamu-chase-ripoff.com
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#5 Consumer Comment

These rebuttals miss the point

AUTHOR: Charles1919 - (U.S.A.)

My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it.

Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of "automatic payments" as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable.
The bank is the dominant party to your business relationship. It is not a business meeting of equals, Chapter 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code is the settled authority on this area of law. It proscribes the unbreakable dute of fiduciary responsibility on the bank. This doctrine of fairness is further defined in case law of trusts, where it is held that even the "intent of fairness" is not sufficient. It must exhibit "honesty of conduct." They may not profit from their advantageous position over a client.

What does that have to do with NSF fees?

Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites.

Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, "gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry."

If this ever gets before a judge and jury, I think we can predict the outcome. Oh and by the way, there are at the present time ten class actions suits pending against Chase. Visit www.wamu-chase-ripoff.com
Respond to this report!
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#6 Consumer Comment

Online Banking

AUTHOR: Ken - (U.S.A.)

You CANNOT rely on online banking as the sole means for tracking your account. By it's very nature it cannot give an accurate balance. For instance, it will not reflect pending checks. Nor will it accurately reflect pending debit items which may have been held for an amount different than the actual item. (i.e. a restaurant tab that had a tip added to it)

Online banking is meant to be a tool to aid you in verifying your checkbook balance, that's all.

One last point, banks do not control the posting of electronic debits, they post them as they come in. The merchant controls the submission of the items, and not every merchant remits every day. This is another major reason that your online balance won't be accurate. It works this way at every bank, the best you can hope for is a bank with lower overdraft fees, because your current accounting methods cannot avoid them.
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#7 Consumer Comment

Online Banking

AUTHOR: Ken - (U.S.A.)

You CANNOT rely on online banking as the sole means for tracking your account. By it's very nature it cannot give an accurate balance. For instance, it will not reflect pending checks. Nor will it accurately reflect pending debit items which may have been held for an amount different than the actual item. (i.e. a restaurant tab that had a tip added to it)

Online banking is meant to be a tool to aid you in verifying your checkbook balance, that's all.

One last point, banks do not control the posting of electronic debits, they post them as they come in. The merchant controls the submission of the items, and not every merchant remits every day. This is another major reason that your online balance won't be accurate. It works this way at every bank, the best you can hope for is a bank with lower overdraft fees, because your current accounting methods cannot avoid them.
Respond to this report!
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#8 Consumer Comment

Online Banking

AUTHOR: Ken - (U.S.A.)

You CANNOT rely on online banking as the sole means for tracking your account. By it's very nature it cannot give an accurate balance. For instance, it will not reflect pending checks. Nor will it accurately reflect pending debit items which may have been held for an amount different than the actual item. (i.e. a restaurant tab that had a tip added to it)

Online banking is meant to be a tool to aid you in verifying your checkbook balance, that's all.

One last point, banks do not control the posting of electronic debits, they post them as they come in. The merchant controls the submission of the items, and not every merchant remits every day. This is another major reason that your online balance won't be accurate. It works this way at every bank, the best you can hope for is a bank with lower overdraft fees, because your current accounting methods cannot avoid them.
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#9 Consumer Comment

Online Banking

AUTHOR: Ken - (U.S.A.)

You CANNOT rely on online banking as the sole means for tracking your account. By it's very nature it cannot give an accurate balance. For instance, it will not reflect pending checks. Nor will it accurately reflect pending debit items which may have been held for an amount different than the actual item. (i.e. a restaurant tab that had a tip added to it)

Online banking is meant to be a tool to aid you in verifying your checkbook balance, that's all.

One last point, banks do not control the posting of electronic debits, they post them as they come in. The merchant controls the submission of the items, and not every merchant remits every day. This is another major reason that your online balance won't be accurate. It works this way at every bank, the best you can hope for is a bank with lower overdraft fees, because your current accounting methods cannot avoid them.
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#10 Consumer Suggestion

It is not difficult to keep up a check register

AUTHOR: Scott - (U.S.A.)

You could keep a paper register rather easily. At the end of every day, you and your spouse enter the transactions into the register and then both review. Another idea would be to carry cash for your small daily purchases. Keep a calendar with the dates for your autopays and the amount.

No bank can keep a completely accurate online balance in realtime. Different retailers post their credit/debit transactions at different times and may not clear out those transaction on a daily basis, and others may clear out those transactions several times a day. Paper checks can clear the same day they are written, depending on the retailer or business.

If you don't change your spending habits, these problems will follow you to the next bank.
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#11 Consumer Suggestion

It is not difficult to keep up a check register

AUTHOR: Scott - (U.S.A.)

You could keep a paper register rather easily. At the end of every day, you and your spouse enter the transactions into the register and then both review. Another idea would be to carry cash for your small daily purchases. Keep a calendar with the dates for your autopays and the amount.

No bank can keep a completely accurate online balance in realtime. Different retailers post their credit/debit transactions at different times and may not clear out those transaction on a daily basis, and others may clear out those transactions several times a day. Paper checks can clear the same day they are written, depending on the retailer or business.

If you don't change your spending habits, these problems will follow you to the next bank.
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#12 Consumer Suggestion

It is not difficult to keep up a check register

AUTHOR: Scott - (U.S.A.)

You could keep a paper register rather easily. At the end of every day, you and your spouse enter the transactions into the register and then both review. Another idea would be to carry cash for your small daily purchases. Keep a calendar with the dates for your autopays and the amount.

No bank can keep a completely accurate online balance in realtime. Different retailers post their credit/debit transactions at different times and may not clear out those transaction on a daily basis, and others may clear out those transactions several times a day. Paper checks can clear the same day they are written, depending on the retailer or business.

If you don't change your spending habits, these problems will follow you to the next bank.
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#13 Consumer Suggestion

It is not difficult to keep up a check register

AUTHOR: Scott - (U.S.A.)

You could keep a paper register rather easily. At the end of every day, you and your spouse enter the transactions into the register and then both review. Another idea would be to carry cash for your small daily purchases. Keep a calendar with the dates for your autopays and the amount.

No bank can keep a completely accurate online balance in realtime. Different retailers post their credit/debit transactions at different times and may not clear out those transaction on a daily basis, and others may clear out those transactions several times a day. Paper checks can clear the same day they are written, depending on the retailer or business.

If you don't change your spending habits, these problems will follow you to the next bank.
Respond to this report!
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#14 Consumer Comment

You can't use online banking to determine your balance...

AUTHOR: Edgeman - (U.S.A.)

Hi Niteowl,

I can understand your frustrations, but switching banks will not stop the problem of excessive overdraft fees. You don't want to pay the fees and I don't blame you. However, relying on the online banking tool from any bank is virtually guaranteed to cause overdraft fees.

As an example, I like to buy gasoline from a nearby Chevron and I prefer to pay at the pump. I could buy $30 in gas, but the station only puts a hold of $1 against my account. If I go online to check my balance, the bank will say that I have $29 more in my account than I actually do. If I go to a restaurant and pay with my debit card, they may create a hold for the amount of our meals but they may not include the amount of the tip. Let's say that I tipped $20 on a $75 dinner. The bank will think I only spent $75 when I have actually sent $95. Once again, I'd be led to believe that I have a higher balance than I really do.

Checks won't show up in the online banking tool. My auto withdrawals don't either. For example, when Progressive takes my auto insurance payment out, I don't see it until the transaction is hard posted.

You and your husband will be better off if you start keeping a register or a ledger. I know it's tough for a couple to do that. You might consider opening separate accounts or promptly communicating with each other when one of you makes a purchase. You should also keep a calendar and mark the dates of your automatic withdrawals. A properly maintained ledger or check register will virtually eliminate the chances of you overspending your account balance.

I'd urge you to consider this advice whether you leave Chase Bank or not. It's the accounting method that is the problem here, not the bank.
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