- Report: #606667
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: Joe Jr. Ordini, Carole Ordini. Chuck salesperson
Joe Jr. Ordini, Carole Ordini. Chuck salesperson801 Route 413, Bristol, PA Bristol, PA, Paterson, NJ, Pennsylvania United States of America
Joe Jr. Ordini, Carole Ordini. Chuck salesperson JOE, CAROLE ORDINI AND CHUCK (SALESMAN) REFUSE TO RETURN MY $5000 POOL DEPOSIT! THEY HADN"T EVEN SUBMITTED PERMIT! Bristol, PA, Paterson, NJ, Pennsylvania
*General Comment: Not Related in Any Way
*Author of original report: This matter was resolved and deposit returned
*UPDATE Employee: The Truth!
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In February of this year 2010 Chuck of Ordinis Best Fiberglass Pools came to my house to discuss the installation of a fiberglass pool. I wanted a fiberglass pool because of the expedited time (they call it a pool in a day) it takes and I was going to surprise my husband for our 10th wedding anniversary. In order to get a good deal I offered to give Chuck a $5000 deposit, with the caveat that because our carriage house had burned down and were rebuilding and lived in a very strict township (Radnor), there was a high probability that we would NOT be granted a grading or pool permit. Hs response of course of course you will get your FULL deposit back if your permit is not approved.
Our builder submitted the grading permit with Radnor twp (NOT ordinis), our builder also handled the topographical survey. Our pool grading permit was denied because of the amount of foundation that had to be removed for the carriage house now required us to install a VERY expensive storm water management system in which would cost thousands of dollars and we then wouldnt even be able to afford a pool.
May 11th, 2010 I contacted Ordinis to tell them the grading permit submitted by our builders for the pool had been denied and apologized and thanked them (specifically office manager Angie) for all her help thus far and asked that she please send my deposit check in the amount of $5000 back asap because I had to pay an engineer to design the storm water management system because if we didnt get it into the township work on our carriage house would be halted.
I received the following email from Chuck the next day:
I will check with Angie on what is expended on this job if anything and I will let you know. I said all deposits are refundable as long as we didnt do any work, but Angie has a lot of time and energy on this project. I will figure it all out with her and get you a refund ASAP.
Clarification- you did not caveat your answer to my question in my dining room "and if I decided not to do the pool I can get this money back" with what you said below you simply said "yes yes" not "yes yes less what administrative work has been done"
Administrative work (responding to emails is a companies responsibility, not the clients) had you done the land survey or submitted and paid for the permit I would understand but you had not. In the letter I received it spells out the stages of your pool process "after your permit has been approved by your twp the pool will be ordered and should arrive in 30 days"
I just don't want to be taken advantage of here chuck...I trusted your word. And at some point in the next couple of years we will do a pool and I'd like to be able to come back to you all. Also positive word of mouth (especially in my area) is your best form of advertisement.
Thanks; I trust I will receive the entire $5k o later than the end of next wee
I am working on it with the manufacture on a $1000 restocking charge that they want to charge me for making that special pool and spa in that new color. I ordered the pool and spa about 2 weeks to a month after you bought it because when u got the permit I wanted to get the pool in for u ASAP and not have to wait a month for the pool to get made. Give me a little more time and I will get back to u.
May 19 (3 days ago)
In other words, that is between you and your vendor to resolve and has no legal bearing on me receiving my full refund back. I need that money to pay our engineer Chuck, and I want it this week. I was quick enough in giving you my deposit I expect the same punctuality in receiving it back. As I said it says right in the letter I received that upon permit receipt you will order the pool. I do hear where you are coming from Chuck but frankly it is not my responsibility, I would hope you have $5K in your company account to send me back my money without having to deal with this issue first, resolving your "restocking" issue with your vendor should not effect me receiving my deposit check back for the full amount immediately.
His next email:
we are in receipt of your request to cancel your pool and spa contract dated on May 12, 2010. Unfortunately we have incurred several costs on your deal, which must be satisfied. First you changed the spa twice from a standard spa to a spill over and then back again. The spa was already made and so was the pool. To make things worse they were in that special new color and are not readily salable at this time, see item number 9 on the back of the contract. You cancelled your pool on 5/12/2010 long after the 3-day rescission period had expired. Your pool and spa was ordered, as we wanted to meet your time line. As for the retention basin I think you are being mislead. If we had done the entire permit process I feel confident that we would have had different results, but that remains to be seen. Angela ordered your sealed engineers prints on April 21st as you said that your grading plan was getting close. We have spent time making phone calls and answering emails from you to, on some days, 4 or 5 at a time. We are here to help as always and are not in the business to handle all of these issues out of pocket. Angela gets $375 to complete a permit and on your deal we are charging you $250. Copies of invoices attached. Therefore we will be happy to refund you the total amount of $3630.00 as a full refund and our obligation to each other will be satisfied.
Please send back your copy of the contract with the words CANCELLED across the body of copy and we will send you a refund check in a timely manner.
The bottom line is...our builder submitted a grading permit for the pool (not ordini's), Our township (Radnor) will not approve the grading permit for a pool unless we put in a very expensive storm water management system, thus we would have no money left to afford a pool!
It' was your decision to order the pool before a permit was approved it said so right in your company letter of process we are under NOT legally or contractually responsible to pay for a restocking fee or blueprints ordered.
Chuck's reference to 9. on back of their contract is irrelevant because they SHOULD NOT HAVE ORDERED POOL!
#9. says " The parties acknowledge and agree that many pools, including the one sold pursuant to this agreement are specialty items which, because of the custom design, may not be resalable by contractor in the event of cancellation or default of the homeowner. Contractor reserves the right to seek specific performance of this agreement or to sue for the purchase price in the event of purchaser default or cancellation."
Chuck referencing #9 on the back of contract is MOOT because they never should have ordered pool! I would understand if they applied for the pool permit it was approved and they then ordered the pool and I canceled. But that is NOT what occurred, Chuck Ordini ordered the pool about a week after I signed the contract! Again his decision his fault!
Chuck I will not be sending your contract back with canceled on it. You seem to be overlooking one very important fact and that is that in the letter your company sent out right after you deposited my deposit stated that you would not be ordering my pool until after the permits went through. And I specifically told you when you were at my house that we may not be able to get the permit because our twp is so strict, thus would I get my entire deposit back? Your answer yes yes of course. I am disgusted that you are not a man of your word. It is not my fault or RESPONSIBILITY that you all ordered the pool before the permit went through nor that you all ordered the blue prints. You all did not even submit the grading permit! The pool was canceled before a pool permit was even submitted, thus the onus is on you all not us! If I do not receive my entire $5000 back next week I will not only go onto every website that has anything to do with you and fiberglass pools and tell them what a dishonest company you are and I will also file a civil suit, we have already contacted our attorney and he concurs; that you have NO legal right to keep any of our deposit and that the letter I received (not your vague contract) stating you would not order a pool until the permit goes through is more than enough proof for a judge to award us our entire deposit. Just because I told Angela "the permit should go through" in an email does not mean she should have ordered the blueprints. Seriously Chuck you will so regret not standing by your word.
Next day I received the following email from his father Joe Ordini:
May 21 (2 days ago)
You are now to me. Please have your attorney contact me at the earliest convenience. You now threatened and insulted me and my company. We will take no more phone calls from you and will not respond to you. You mentioned attorney and that's when I stop communicating with you. I have been in business for over 40 years and will not be threatened buy a nasty person. All deposit money is now being held till I hear from consul.
Joe Ordini's Best Fiberglass Pools
801 Route 413 Bristol, Pa. 19007
1-800 ORDINI'S (673-4647)
My Direct Line 215-416-5100
For the record it is within my civil liberties of freedom of speech to state the facts and to report on your dishonest business practices to whomever we wish to and I am not a nasty person, I am a honest person who will not be taken advantage of.Talk about threatening, you now are saying you are going to hold my entire deposit until you hear from our attorney? You seriously think I would waste our $300 an hour attorney on this? We consulted him we are not retaining him to handle this, I will be handling this! I want the $3630 sent out today and I expect an email confirmation from you or chuck today that it will be sent if I do not I will be going online tomorrow and stating the "facts" of this situation to every website I can. "word of mouth" is a very important tool when running a business. If I do receive confirmation that you will be sending the $3630 today than I will refrain from filing a complaint with the BBB and ripoffreport.com and I will file a civil suit for the remainder of my deposit with Bucks County. Joe I've researched you're name and past company complaints it would behoove you to be honest
Just spoke with bucks county...seems they've been busy on your behalf Joe!
I wonder how you sleep at night?
I have it in writing that you all order pool after permit has been approved and then it takes 30 days...again not my fault that you ordered pool before permit was approved it is yours and your fiscal responsibility to pay the restocking fee to CPC. I seriously cannot believe you are trying to keep over a $1000 dollars when you all hadn't even filed a pool permit! You are a very dishonest person!
I suggest you spend the $300 and have your attorney call me. Otherwise do what you want as I'm sure you will anyway. I will not write you again.
Unlike you I actually stand by my word!
I want you to send the amount chuck said yesterday and I will get the rest by filing a civil suit with bucks county! You are a complete thief if you are suggesting you are not going to be sending me back "at least" what chuck said which you understand to be the amount you owe me. I would suggest you send me back the entire amount which is legally owed to me however seeing as you seem to have no ethics I will let the courts handle that amount and I will most certainly be contacting you over and over and over again until I receive my deposit....I have a lot of empty hours in the day as a housewife!
AT THIS POINT I AM MAD AND BARRAGE HIM WITH EMAILS WITH THE DEFINITIONS OF ADJECTIVES: i.e, crook, conman, thief, ethics, honesty, etc..and the next morning I send him an email with simply
Morning! Did you sleep with a clear conscience? In the subject line..
He wasnt too happy, the next morning I received the following email from him:
May 22 (1 day ago)
My son tells me that you are about 39 years old. You are acting
like a 10 year old. You are harassing me and my son and I am now going to
sue you for full performance of our contract. You are now libel for a full
20% of the contract ($8000.00) for canceling. If your husband would like to
call me or your lawyer I will talk to a rational person otherwise expect to
get my suit in the mail next week. You have now upset all of us here at
Ordinis. You realize all of this is over $1200.00 and now you owe me another
$3000.00. You wanted to play now you have someone that will spend the $300
per hour just to make this point. I WILL NOT BE THREATENED. Is the news lady
going to see me today? I have kept all of your emails and believe me it is
good stuff. I can't wait to show my legal team. I'm sure that everyone
Involved will think, as we do, that you're nuts.
PS I sleep quite well, but thanks for caring
date Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:58 AM
At least I'm not a crook! You call sending emails harassment...I have not threatened you in any way shape or form...you were basically stealing $5000 from me!
I then took a step back and thought ok I am getting in over my head Im going to call our lawyer and show him all the contract and the process letter from them: He advised me to send the following email:
date Sat, May 22, 2010 at 6:00 PM
Had you all only thought to "do the right" lawful thing and given me what is legally mine all of this could have been avoided. Our lawyer from DBMP has looked over the contract (specifically section 9-Which is moot because the pool was not supposed to have been ordered before permit was approved; per your company process letter). Legally he says you have no right to keep any amount of my deposit and he challenges your legal team to find any legal foot to stand on that would justify keeping any amount of our deposit. Your decision to keep our entire deposit and subsequent threat of a lawsuit considering your history leads him to believe you are not a rational trustworthy individual. Thus any attempt from him to convince you to see your actions as illegal are probably futile. of contact with you from him would be futile at this point. Ergo he doubts any thing he would say to convince you of your obvious fraud would be on deaf ears. Thus he recommends I offer you one more chance to respond and to repay what is rightfully mine. If you choose to keep my deposit he suggests we go the press route because that is the only way to put a business like yours out of business. This isn't just about money for me, this is about honesty! I would never want someone with less gumption than myself to be taken advantage of by your business!
Sun, May 23, 2010 at 8:52 AM
I'll await your lawyer's call. I think you are a liar. No lawyer, no TV
person, and you have pissed me off. Bring it on
Let's see 35 emails and counting HARASSMENT in any court. You are a spoiled
little 10 year old. I have 6 kids and 16 grand kids and I know how to handle
Children. Have a great day I know I will
Joe Ordini's Best Fiberglass Pools
My last response, which brings us to NOW:
date Sun, May 23, 2010 at 11:45 AM
I guess you also have a literacy issue?
That was your last chance to do the honest legal thing. You are a very rude man I feel sorry for your children, your grandchildren and your employees.
By the way I have now found out that it was Joe Jr. sending me all those emails pretending to be his dad Joe Sr., his dad just died in April.
I know I should not keep going back at him, but I am SO SO MAD! Im sure this guy intimidates everyone that ever contests him. Well Im not going to let him get away with this and do this to anyone else
There are a few companies with the Ordini Name;
Carole Ordini runs the Paterson, NJ store and Joe Jr. Ordini runs the Bristol, PA store.. I have contacted Bucks County Consumer Affairs and they told me they have had SEVERAL complaints on Joe Jr. Ordini. There are also records of other dishonest practices on ripoffreport.com and the BBB, but none seem that recent? I want them to be put out of business they are crooks!
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/24/2010 11:18 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Joe-Jr-Ordini-Carole-Ordini-Chuck-salesperson/Bristol-PA-Paterson-NJ-Pennsylvania-/Joe-Jr-Ordini-Carole-Ordini-Chuck-salesperson-JOE-CAROLE-ORDINI-AND-CHUCK-SALESMAN-606667. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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