• Report: #412258

Complaint Review: John Elway Crown Toyota

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  • Submitted: Thu, January 15, 2009
  • Updated: Fri, January 16, 2009

  • Reported By:Garden Grove California
John Elway Crown Toyota
1201 Kettering Drive Ontario, California U.S.A.

John Elway Crown Toyota Liar, identity theft, fraud Ontario California

*Consumer Comment: DON'T FORGET TO WATCH THE DATELINE NBC UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATION THAT IS......

*Consumer Comment: URGENT UPDATE for Airjar!

*Consumer Comment: A RULE, or a CODE, that is set by a Dealership is NOT THE.....

*Consumer Comment: response to James: do some research

*Consumer Suggestion: so let me guess...

*Consumer Comment: URGENT UPDATE for JAMES: I BELIEVE THAT.......

*Consumer Comment: I BELIEVE THAT......

*Consumer Comment: I BELIEVE THAT......

*Consumer Comment: I BELIEVE THAT......

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When I attempted to buy a used car on sale for $4,999.00 Joe Vickers, Sales Manager informed me they wanted a copy of my driver's license. I offered to show it to him and pay in cash, credit card or check. Vickers lied to me stating there are laws that require me to give him a copy of my driver's license. There are no such laws. I can hardly believe I am told to provide a copy of my driver's license when I offered to pay cash. Crown Toyota or John Elway Toyota don't appear to have a corporation registered in those names to conduct business in California. Their dealer's license shows as Sonic Ontario T, Inc. which does not show as a corporation licensed in California. Who are these people? What is their real business name? Maybe they are operating an identity theft, fraud and money laundering ring to defraud California residents. I am going to report this to the DMV, Consumer affairs and the Attorney General.

James
Garden Grove, California
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/15/2009 12:02 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/John-Elway-Crown-Toyota/Ontario-California-91761/John-Elway-Crown-Toyota-Liar-identity-theft-fraud-Ontario-California-412258. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 9Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

DON'T FORGET TO WATCH THE DATELINE NBC UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATION THAT IS......

AUTHOR: Karl - (U.S.A.)

AVAILABLE AT stopautofraud.com

It shows clear evidence of how innocent people are being MANIPULATED by car dealerships. TOWN & COUNTRY FORD, which was, and still may be owned by SONIC, was EXPOSED in that UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATION by Dateline NBC!

I just watched it! POOR Tory!!! She had her CREDIT APPLICATION ALTERED, and her 60 month term went to 72 MONTHS without her knowledge!!!! 72 months is 12 months LONGER that 60 months, correct? 72 - 60 = 12, correct?

So, her $280 payment was 12 months LONGER! 12 x $280 = $3,360, right?

Would any of YOU consider this to be a 'FLY BY NIGHT' dealership? I WOULD!!!!!!!

I guess it all depends upon your DEFINITION of- 'FLY BY NIGHT', huh?

Would a stock that has LOST over 90% of its value be considered a good stock, or a 'FLY BY NIGHT' stock? Perhaps Airjar believes that's a good stock to invest in, right? 90% x $30 = $27, correct? So, $30 - $27 = $3, right? That's about where SONIC'S stock is today!! You can check it out yourself. Their stock symbol is 'sah'

I'm going to go see where SONIC'S stock is right now! Have a nice evening!!!!!!!!!
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#2 Consumer Comment

URGENT UPDATE for Airjar!

AUTHOR: Karl - (U.S.A.)

You made a comment about Sonic being a publicly held company, and that basically nullifies them from being a 'fly by night' company, in your opinion, correct?

Wasn't Enron a publicly held company?

Wasn't Worldcom a publicly held company?

Wasn't Countrywide a publicly held company?

Wasn't Bear Stearns a publicly held company?

Wasn't Lehman a publicly held company? Didn't they all COLLAPSE? Didn't FRAUD & CORRUPTION have something to do with their ultimate demise????

Did you know that Sonic had to BORROW $150 MILLION in late 2005 in order to PAY DOWN some of its REVOLVING DEBT? Doesn't that seem a bit odd? They BORROWED money in order to pay down money on a REVOLVING CREDIT LINE!!!

That's like you borrowing money to pay down your credit card, right? This was all posted on November 17th 2005 on the web. And look at where Sonic's stock is today! Back in late 2005 their stock was over $20 a share!! It was over $30 a share in 2007!

It's BELOW $3 a share right now! And the company they BORROWED the $150 MILLION from is Bank of America!!! GUESS WHAT? Bank of America is COLLAPSING, isn't it?

SO, WHAT IS YOUR 'definition' of- 'FLY BY NIGHT' company?

Keep in mind, Sonic was EXPOSED in TWO UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATIONS within 18 months of each other on TV!! December 5th 2003- on Dateline NBC, & May 17th, & 18th, 2005 on 9NEWS in Denver!!!

CREDIT APPLICATIONS WERE BEING ALTERED IN BOTH of the above investigations!!! Isn't that AGAINST THE LAW????? Hmmm, FLY BY NIGHT? I wonder what your definition is, Airjar?

I'm Karl, and I approve this Update!

P.S. Go to stopautofraud.com and you can still see the video from the Dateline NBC Undercover Investigation! You can still go to www.9news.com and type in ORNELAS, and read the 9NEWS Article from 2005. Sonic's other dealership in Denver- 'Don Massey Pontiac, Buick, GMC', was SOLD by Sonic a short time after that 9NEWS Undercover Investigation! I WONDER WHY?????????????????
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#3 Consumer Comment

A RULE, or a CODE, that is set by a Dealership is NOT THE.....

AUTHOR: Karl - (U.S.A.)

LAW! IT IS NOT THE LAW!!!!! IT IS NOT THE LAW!!!!! IT IS NOT THE LAW!!!!!

Believe it or not, there is NO LAW that requires an American who earns a salary, or wage, on his or her LABOR to file, or pay FEDERAL INCOME TAXES, according to the documentary entitled- AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM (you can 'Google' it and watch it on the web!)

Neither Congressman Ron Paul, nor former IRS Agents, nor Tax Attorneys, nor Judges presiding in TAX CASES could find, or PRODUCE, the 'LAW' that requires an American to pay, or file FEDERAL INCOME TAX. According to that documentary, federal income tax is a tax for COMPANIES & CORPORATIONS that earn PROFITS & GAINS! It's a TAX on their PROFITS & GAINS! Watch the documentary and you'll see.

If a Dealership tells you they have a rule, a set of standards, or a code, that requires you to produce your drivers license, that DOES NOT make it a LAW, correct? There ARE Dealerships that sell cars to people without drivers licenses because there isn't a LAW saying that they can't do it, right?

There ARE laws that say people should NOT BE DISCRIMINATED against, correct? There are LAWS against FORGING someone's name on a CREDIT APPLICATION, right?

There are LAWS against raising someone's income on a CREDIT APPLICATION and sending it into the Bank for financing, aren't there? There are LAWS against these particular matters, correct? So, WHY are there Dealerships in the USA that so often BREAK THE LAW?????

DO NOT BUY VEHICLES FROM ANY SONIC OWNED DEALERSHIP!

I'm Karl, and I approve this Update!

P.S. Don't forget to 'Google' this- AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM, and watch it on the web for free!)

POWER TO THE PEOPLE
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#4 Consumer Comment

response to James: do some research

AUTHOR: Airjar - (U.S.A.)

Sonic Automotive is a publicly traded company, not some fly-by-night operation.

There are several laws (state and federal) which require a dealership to obtain a copy of your DL when selling you a car.

Yes, Sonic was exposed due to some illegal activity of a few employees at a few locations but all of that has been corrected. They went through great expense to clean their house and make sure they hired and trained employees that would comply with all the laws governing auto dealers (and there are a LOT).

James, don't waste the time of the DMV, Consumer affairs or the Attorney General on this pitiful excuse of a 'rip off'. Also, don't call it a 'rip off' unless you 1) are actually ripped-off and/or 2) you actually know what you are talking about.
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#5 Consumer Suggestion

so let me guess...

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

you didn't buy the car?

What was wrong with showing your driver's license? Do you have something to hide? Sounds like you're going a little bit overboard just for nothing. Yes, you do have to show you driver's license when purchasing a vehicle thru a dealership even though you're paying by check. And yes, they have to make a copy of it too. Do you own a dealership? Do you know the rules and regulations dealers have to go through? They are essentially giving you credit until the check clears the bank or the credit card payment goes thru their bank.
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#6 Consumer Comment

URGENT UPDATE for JAMES: I BELIEVE THAT.......

AUTHOR: Karl - (U.S.A.)

SONIC AUTOMOTIVE was EXPOSED on a Dateline NBC Undercover Investigation that aired on December 5th 2003. I believe you can still go to stopautofraud.com and view that Undercover Investigation.

I also believe that SONIC AUTOMOTIVE was EXPOSED in a Three Part Undercover Investigation that aired on 9NEWS in Denver Colorado on 5-16, 5-17, & 5-18-2005. I also believe that their Toyota Dealership was EXPOSED in an Article that made the FRONT PAGE of the Denver Post on 5-19-2005.

I believe that the Article that made the FRONT PAGE of the Denver Post on 5-19-2005 was entitled- 'PROBE: CAR SALES TRICK LATINOS'. I believe you can still go to www.9news.com and type in ORNELAS, and still read that Article that made the FRONT PAGE of the Denver Post on 5-19-2005.

I believe that you should file a Report with your Attorney General ASAP!


HAPPY NEW YEAR!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE
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#7 Consumer Comment

I BELIEVE THAT......

AUTHOR: Karl - (U.S.A.)

SONIC is a Publicly Held Company whose symbol is this- sah

I believe that Sonic is the 3rd largest Publicly Held Auto Group in the USA. I believe that their stock has PLUMMETTED from over $30 a share in 2007 to about $3 a share right now. I believe that Sonic is a corporation that is in DEEP FINANCIAL TROUBLE! Their sales of vehicles is WAY DOWN!!!!! Just like their STOCK!!!!!!!!!

You can check it out if you'd like. I also believe that their CEO is Ollen Bruton Smith, and their COO is B. Scott Smith. You can check it out.

You may be right when you say that a copy of a driver's license is NOT required by LAW because there are people from Mexico who can buy vehicles in the USA at a dealership without a U.S. driver's license.

I've seen it advertised on T.V. that a driver's license isn't necessary in order to BUY a vehicle. But it is required, by LAW, in order to OPERATE a vehicle.

Check it out with your state attorney and find out what the LAW is. I believe that a 19 year old can OWN a restaurant that has a bar, but a 19 year old cannot drink alcohol in that restaurant, by LAW, correct?

I believe an 18 year old can join the Army, but he or she CANNOT legally consume alcohol at a bar or restaurant in the USA, right?

I also believe that there is NO LAW that requires an American to pay FEDERAL INCOME TAX. Federal Income TAX is a TAX for companies & corporations on their PROFITS & GAINS. It is not a LAW for those who earn a SALARY, or WAGE, on their LABOR, according to the documentary entitled- AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM (you can 'GOOGLE' it and watch it on the web!)

Ron Paul could NOT find the LAW. Former IRS Agents could NOT find the LAW. Judges involved in TAX CASES were unable to provide the jury with the LAW. And TAX Attorneys in that documentary could NOT find such a LAW.

It seems as though Federal Income TAX is on a 'voluntary compliance' basis, wouldn't you agree?

WATCH THAT DOCUMENTARY, and then contact your IRS office and see if they can provide you with the LAW, not a code. The LAW!! A CODE is not the LAW, right? They are not the sme, correct? It's best to KNOW THE LAW, isn't it?

Good luck!

Go STEELERS!
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#8 Consumer Comment

I BELIEVE THAT......

AUTHOR: Karl - (U.S.A.)

SONIC is a Publicly Held Company whose symbol is this- sah

I believe that Sonic is the 3rd largest Publicly Held Auto Group in the USA. I believe that their stock has PLUMMETTED from over $30 a share in 2007 to about $3 a share right now. I believe that Sonic is a corporation that is in DEEP FINANCIAL TROUBLE! Their sales of vehicles is WAY DOWN!!!!! Just like their STOCK!!!!!!!!!

You can check it out if you'd like. I also believe that their CEO is Ollen Bruton Smith, and their COO is B. Scott Smith. You can check it out.

You may be right when you say that a copy of a driver's license is NOT required by LAW because there are people from Mexico who can buy vehicles in the USA at a dealership without a U.S. driver's license.

I've seen it advertised on T.V. that a driver's license isn't necessary in order to BUY a vehicle. But it is required, by LAW, in order to OPERATE a vehicle.

Check it out with your state attorney and find out what the LAW is. I believe that a 19 year old can OWN a restaurant that has a bar, but a 19 year old cannot drink alcohol in that restaurant, by LAW, correct?

I believe an 18 year old can join the Army, but he or she CANNOT legally consume alcohol at a bar or restaurant in the USA, right?

I also believe that there is NO LAW that requires an American to pay FEDERAL INCOME TAX. Federal Income TAX is a TAX for companies & corporations on their PROFITS & GAINS. It is not a LAW for those who earn a SALARY, or WAGE, on their LABOR, according to the documentary entitled- AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM (you can 'GOOGLE' it and watch it on the web!)

Ron Paul could NOT find the LAW. Former IRS Agents could NOT find the LAW. Judges involved in TAX CASES were unable to provide the jury with the LAW. And TAX Attorneys in that documentary could NOT find such a LAW.

It seems as though Federal Income TAX is on a 'voluntary compliance' basis, wouldn't you agree?

WATCH THAT DOCUMENTARY, and then contact your IRS office and see if they can provide you with the LAW, not a code. The LAW!! A CODE is not the LAW, right? They are not the sme, correct? It's best to KNOW THE LAW, isn't it?

Good luck!

Go STEELERS!
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#9 Consumer Comment

I BELIEVE THAT......

AUTHOR: Karl - (U.S.A.)

SONIC is a Publicly Held Company whose symbol is this- sah

I believe that Sonic is the 3rd largest Publicly Held Auto Group in the USA. I believe that their stock has PLUMMETTED from over $30 a share in 2007 to about $3 a share right now. I believe that Sonic is a corporation that is in DEEP FINANCIAL TROUBLE! Their sales of vehicles is WAY DOWN!!!!! Just like their STOCK!!!!!!!!!

You can check it out if you'd like. I also believe that their CEO is Ollen Bruton Smith, and their COO is B. Scott Smith. You can check it out.

You may be right when you say that a copy of a driver's license is NOT required by LAW because there are people from Mexico who can buy vehicles in the USA at a dealership without a U.S. driver's license.

I've seen it advertised on T.V. that a driver's license isn't necessary in order to BUY a vehicle. But it is required, by LAW, in order to OPERATE a vehicle.

Check it out with your state attorney and find out what the LAW is. I believe that a 19 year old can OWN a restaurant that has a bar, but a 19 year old cannot drink alcohol in that restaurant, by LAW, correct?

I believe an 18 year old can join the Army, but he or she CANNOT legally consume alcohol at a bar or restaurant in the USA, right?

I also believe that there is NO LAW that requires an American to pay FEDERAL INCOME TAX. Federal Income TAX is a TAX for companies & corporations on their PROFITS & GAINS. It is not a LAW for those who earn a SALARY, or WAGE, on their LABOR, according to the documentary entitled- AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM (you can 'GOOGLE' it and watch it on the web!)

Ron Paul could NOT find the LAW. Former IRS Agents could NOT find the LAW. Judges involved in TAX CASES were unable to provide the jury with the LAW. And TAX Attorneys in that documentary could NOT find such a LAW.

It seems as though Federal Income TAX is on a 'voluntary compliance' basis, wouldn't you agree?

WATCH THAT DOCUMENTARY, and then contact your IRS office and see if they can provide you with the LAW, not a code. The LAW!! A CODE is not the LAW, right? They are not the sme, correct? It's best to KNOW THE LAW, isn't it?

Good luck!

Go STEELERS!
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