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  • Report: #692476

Complaint Review: Karate America

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  • Submitted: Tue, February 08, 2011
  • Updated: Thu, February 07, 2013

  • Reported By: Militaryfamily — Orange Park Florida United States of America
Karate America
Internet United States of America

Karate America Not military friendly with canceling contract on military order , Internet

*Consumer Comment: Worth repeating.

*UPDATE Employee: In response to HeidiStH:

*General Comment: KA NOT military friendly company

*UPDATE Employee: 3rd Response

*Author of original report: Please give me a list of acceptable documents to show proof I am moving.

*UPDATE Employee: 2nd Response

*Author of original report: Thank you

*Author of original report: Two weeks to show proof of move

*Consumer Comment: I too am offended.

*UPDATE Employee: We Understand............

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I am moving to Italy, my wife just got military orders there. 

I talked with my instructor and he gave me a number to talk to Karate America to notify them of my cancelation.  This seems like a simple process. 

I called them and told them my wife got orders to Italy and asked what paper work I would need to send them.  They told me to send a copy of the military orders and a letter stating that I wanted to cancel and to sign it.  I did all that and got a letter back saying that they need a phone bill, electric bill, or a new drivers license from Italy.

I don't know if anyone has moved out of country, especially with the military, but there is a lot of work involved in the move.  Who wants to have to think of sending paperwork back for proof of move, and who knows how many times I would have to send the paperwork.  Seeing how I already sent them what they asked for once already for my cancelation.

Karate America Headquarters is giving me 2 weeks to get over there, and give them proof that I'm living over there. 

I'm a military vet and am insulted by them insinuating that I am not actually moving.

These people are far from customer friendly or military friendly.  Now I have to go to my legal office on base and have them contact Karate America just to get my contract canceled. 

Extremely disappointed in how Karate America treats the military.  I offered other proof of my move, like sending a copy of my current apartment lease contract which is being canceled.  I have medical paperwork, I'm selling my car, I have vetrenarian records...

It is funny that my apartment just needed a copy of my wife's orders to cancel the lease.  I'm sure they could have told me that they did not have proof that I was also moving.  I'm sure they could have threated that we would get some kind of penalty charge for me not proving I'm moving with my wife. 

How many married couples have 1 person move to Italy for 3 years, while the other person stays in the U.S. for 3 years.  Obviously they don't realize that military couples spend as much time as they can together when not deployed.

Anyways thanks again Karate America for giving military families a hard time.  Good luck to anyone trying to cancel their contract on military orders.

I would love to see how they would treat a child moving on military orders, it is going to be real hard for the child to prove that they are moving with their parents.


This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/08/2011 12:45 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Karate-America/internet/Karate-America-Not-military-friendly-with-canceling-contract-on-military-order-Internet-692476. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
3Author 7Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

Worth repeating.

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

"It also reminds them of the cancellation fee stated in their membershipthis is in a bolded, easy-to-read section of the membership headed Consumers Right of Cancellation."

Enough said.  Once again, the best example of their practices is expressed by one of their own employees.  Military members: You have been warned.
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#2 UPDATE Employee

In response to HeidiStH:

AUTHOR: Karate America Employee - (USA)

In response to HeidiStH:

Of course, it is very difficult to offer a proper response, given that I do not know the members name and cannot review the file. However, I can offer a bit of information. Our standard cancellation procedure is that all requests must be made in writing (thank you for doing that). Once we receive the request, we pull the file and review it. If all seems to be in order, we then send the cancellation sign-off letter, which is simply our way to ensure that everything is clear, that the member understands that the membership is being cancelled. It also reminds them of the cancellation fee stated in their membershipthis is in a bolded, easy-to-read section of the membership headed Consumers Right of Cancellation. The letter requests that the member simply sign the letter where provided and return it to Karate Americas headquarters (address provided in the letter and in the membership) with the required cancellation fee. The letter also clearly states that if the signed letter and fee are not received, the membership will remain active.I understand that perhaps the member did not receive the letter prior to deploying; however, the requirement of the cancellation fee is stated in the membership, to which the member agreed upon signing. If that was not received, the membership would not have been cancelled.Sincerely,Karate America Employee
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#3 General Comment

KA NOT military friendly company

AUTHOR: HeidiStH - (United States of America)

I completely agree with the Sailor that was PCSed to Italy.

I, too, am a Navy Sailor. My initial concern when signing up for the 30-class was that I wouldn't be able to complete them due to my orders changing. My command terminated the shore duty UIC and all Sailors would either be PCSed or to sea. I was denied sea so I would be getting new orders between November 2011 and January 2012.

I let the owner know about this and he said it would be fine, I would just have to write a cancellation letter and show my orders. The owner heped me write my letter and fax my documents to corporate, which was appreciated. However, I transferred to California in January 2012 and things were fine. I left immediately to meet the USS Lincoln for Operation Enduring Freedom. I returned home August of 2012 and had debt collectors calling my phone.

Since then I have still recieved these calls. My cancellation letter and orders were not acknowledged at Karate America. The debt collector contacted Karate America and they were no help to me as a customer. I just paid $298 plus $119 in debt fees.

I do not support Karate America and would not recommend the company to any military friends, seeing as how unwilling this company is to help.
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#4 UPDATE Employee

3rd Response

AUTHOR: Karate America Employee - (USA)

I did ask the student to send a copy of his orders, initially thinking the orders were for himself, and when I realized they were for his wife, I assumed they would contain something within that would specify her husband was travelling with her.  I apologize for having made that assumption.

When the student first made the offer of sending a letter from his lawyer, I did not know the lawyer was with the navy.  If the student can offer official documentation from the Navy showing that he is moving with his wife, we would accept it as proof of move.  I am not in the Navy and, therefore, do not know exactly what kind of documentation could be acquired.  As long as it is official Navy paperwork and specifies that the student is moving to Italy, we would accept it.

Having said that (making sure our policy on military moves is clear), I am happy to report that I have talked to the membership board, and having spoken with the instructor, they have decided to cancel the membership.  The instructor verified that, to the best of his knowledge, the student is married to the person named on the orders, that the student had told him about the move previously, and that he trusts the student is being truthful.  This is not something Karate America usually does, but the membership board has decided the military orders will suffice, given that we have the instructor’s word.  The cancellation paperwork will be sent to the student’s home today, 2/16/11.

We want to thank the student for being a member of the Karate America family and wish him and his family luck in Italy.  Also, we thank the family for their service to our country.

Sincerely,
Karate America Employee
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#5 Author of original report

Please give me a list of acceptable documents to show proof I am moving.

AUTHOR: Militaryfamily - (United States of America)

The second time I called Karate America Headquarters, after I had given them the original paperwork they asked for, I offered different forms of documentation including a letter from my legal services to prove I am moving.

In the second phone call and in a letter they told me the only proof they could accept was a bill from Italy with my name on it.

I am happy to send any kind of paperwork possible to show I am moving, just I had offered before.  If they want me to, I can even try to get a list of contacts on the Navy Base for Karate America to call to prove I am moving. 

If Karate America Headquarters can be more specific on what documents they would accept , then I am happy to give them the paperwork.  I do not mind running over to the Navy Legal Office to have them write a letter to verify that I am moving, as I offered before.

My wife and I do have different last names.  We were both in the Navy and never changed our names, this was over 6 years ago. 

At the begining of my cancellation, when I sent the copy of my wife's military orders to Karate America, they made the process of cancellation sound simple.  At no point until now did they mention that they were questioning my marriage.  I can understanding wanting proof of marriage, and am happy to send a copy of my marriage license.  

I will send the copy of the marriage license with any other documentation that they want, if someone from Karate America Headquarters will just tell me what paperwork they would accept, then I will happily send all the paperwork to them.

I just would rather finish my cancellation while in Jacksonville and not have to try to cancel the contract once in Italy. 

I am thankful for my instructor's support.  I had a great time working out with him and training with him.  It was a lot of fun and wish I could continue to train with him.

I would love to resolve this as quickly as possible as well, just tell me what my options are.
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#6 UPDATE Employee

2nd Response

AUTHOR: Karate America Employee - (USA)

I am the employee who wrote the response.  I am extremely upset that the response has offended anyone, especially a former member of our military.  That was, absolutely, not my intent.

Unfortunately, being a business, we must follow protocol, just like the military.  We want to help the student with his transition as much as possible—which is why we are willing to offer the freeze of payment in order to give him time to acquire the necessary documentation.

Normally, we do accept military orders as proof of move.  We cancel memberships for military personnel who are moving on almost a daily basis.  This circumstance just happens to be peculiar.  I have had several other people read through the orders, and none of us has found anything that specifies that the transferring member of the military is bringing anyone, let alone the membership signer.  If it is possible for something from the military to be provided to us that would show that the signer of the membership was being moved with her, we would be happy to cancel the membership immediately.  Unfortunately, what has been provided offers no link what so ever between the person on the orders and the membership signer.  The last names are even different.  (We received only orders, no marriage license.)  We are only asking for what is specified in the membership—which was agreed upon by the student:  “legitimate verification of the move.”

Having talked to the instructor who has taught the student and being told that he is a nice man, I personally believe everything the student has told me, but unfortunately, that does not give me the ability to brush aside standard procedure.   I am hoping whoever reads this will understand the predicament we are in with this particular circumstance.  We very much want to help the student and be able to put this behind us, but we have to follow the same rules that we do for everyone. 

 Also, please remember we have no motivation to give the student a hard time.  As I have already mentioned, we are willing to freeze the March payment in order to give the student plenty of time (two months) to acquire proof of move.  If we are not making money off this, we have no reason to purposefully be difficult.  Personally, I would prefer to be able to put this behind me. I hope to be able to resolve this quickly, for both the student’s benefit and my own.  

 Sincerely,
 Karate America Employee
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#7 Author of original report

Thank you

AUTHOR: Militaryfamily - (United States of America)

I will try to find some Military Websites to comment to our fellow military members.  Thank you again for the support.
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#8 Author of original report

Two weeks to show proof of move

AUTHOR: Militaryfamily - (United States of America)

The military orders state that the arrival date for my wife is March 30th. 

Due to my wife just returning from a nine month deployment from Afghanistan in January the military paperwork for our move is behind schedule.  My military spouse passport is in the process now. 

If the passport does not arrive by the end of March, then I will have to leave a week or two after she leaves.  So I will have no permanent address for those couple weeks until I arrive in Italy. 

My instructor also had worked with me on 2 weeks of additional training at the end of my contract from a vacation that I had taken earlier in the year. 

So Karate America was good enough to offer to place my March 15th payment on hold, but technically if my contract is ending March 15th and I have two weeks additional training, that puts the hold on payments down to 2 weeks.  The hold would be from March 29th to April 15th.

The saddest part is they are giving me a hard time over a couple months of payments.  My contract is over on I believe May 5th with them anyways.  We're talking about like $300.  
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#9 Consumer Comment

I too am offended.

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

I want to thank the "employee" for providing the offensive response.  Nothing convinces consumers to avoid a business more than such comments posted by the business in question-the employee rebuttal posted here.

I am a former USAF MSgt and I am equally offended.  The PCS orders will clearly indicate whether the assignment is accompanied or unaccompanied, complete with funding indicators.  It is very unlikely that a 3 year tour is unaccompanied, but even if the dependents were to choose to stay CONUS, the military would cover the cost for the remaining family members to relocate to their home of record.

The PCS orders for the WIFE and a copy of their marriage license would be sufficient for damn near any company I've ever had business dealings.  Heck, my rental leases even have a "military clause" in them should one of my tenants be called to duty.

But it's not good enough for these tools.  Indeed!

Further, the base/post transportation office is going to set up movers to come pack their household goods.  Would a letter from the transportation office be good enough for you fools? 

Requiring some form of "proof you're in Italy" after they have moved is extreme.

FOR THE OP:  Put the word out on this outfit!  There are plenty of consumer complaint boards and MILITARY SUPPORT websites-I suggest you post on ALL OF THEM.  Additionally, you might consider asking the Base/Post commander to INCLUDE these clowns on the base/post OFF LIMITS LIST-so others service members' dependents don't fall into this trap!

"Karate America" indeed.  I suggest you folks change your name.  Perhaps "Karate Amerika" would be more appropriate.
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#10 UPDATE Employee

We Understand............

AUTHOR: Karate America Employee - (USA)

We understand the student’s frustration, and we feel for his stress at moving to another country. Much work must be involved in that large a transition.

We did receive the referenced orders and have reviewed them to find the signer’s name does not appear on them and that there is no specific reference to a family moving with the military personnel. Unfortunately, military orders for someone else do not serve to prove move. It is policy that the move of the signer and/or student must be proven. The name on the orders does not appear on the membership, neither as student nor as signer, and there is no mention in the orders of the name of the person on the membership.

In order to assist the student, we have offered to place a hold on the March payment to give him plenty of time to acquire proof of move for himself. This will allot him two months—from February 15th to April 15th—not two weeks as stated in the complaint. We understand the pressure he must be feeling with moving out of the country, and we are willing to work with him to make it as fair a process as possible. The membership does not require us to offer this freeze of payment.

The student did offer other documentation to prove his move. Unfortunately, anything he offered was not going to show to where he was moving. A cancelled lease could simply mean he was moving his apartment within Jacksonville. His apartment management was probably able to cancel his lease because his wife was surely listed on the lease as a tenant. (If her name appeared on his membership with us as the student, we would be able to accept the orders as proof.)

We hope we can come to an amicable understanding, and we wish the student luck in Italy.

Sincerely, Karate America
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