• Report: #306892

Complaint Review: Karl Moore - SWREG

Thank You

Read how Ripoff Report saves consumers millions.

  • Submitted: Wed, February 06, 2008
  • Updated: Mon, July 16, 2012

  • Reported By:Littleton Colorado
Karl Moore - SWREG
14525 SW Millikan Way Beaverton, Oregon United States of America

Karl Moore Is Your Rip-off Artist, SWREG Is Just Cc Processor. Karl Moore Is THE Rip-off Artist, SWREG Is Just Cc Processor. DRI*SWREG only processes the orders, Karl Moore is the crook stealing your money! Beaverton Oregon

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Official Rebuttal

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Official Rebuttal

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Official Rebuttal

What's this?
What's this?
What's this?
Is this
Ripoff Report
About you?
Ripoff Report
A business' first
line of defense
on the Internet.
If your business is
willing to make a
commitment to
customer satisfaction
Click here now..

Does your business have a bad reputation?
Fix it the right way.
Corporate Advocacy Program™

SEO Reputation Management at its best!

Anyone on these pages who has purchased defective software or digital products from WCCL Network or more commonly, MyHelpHub, the crook actually stealing your money is a sleazy guy named Karl Moore. Visit his website karlmoore.com and its right there. He makes no effort to hide the fact that he owns WCCL Network and White Cliff, which in turn owns MyHelpHub.com. They are all pretty much the same d**n thing.

Like any business processing credit cards, SWREG is not really the problem, but they are a major integral part of it. With all the complaints they must have to deal with, one would think they would simply stop doing business with WCCL & Karl Moore. The only answer that I can come up with is that business must be so good that they don't want to stop the flow of $$$.

For those of you with similar experiences, you must have come to the same conclusion that I have. This has got to be the worlds most perfect freak in crime. There is nothing any of us can do to get our money back or take any legal action to stop this abuse. If you are like me, you've been probably ripped off around $20. Who the hell in law enforcement or the government is going to give a rats a*s about that? Nobody. That's who.

This is truly the perfect internet crime. And this is how it's done:

- Get some ambitious sleazebag who lives off shore, say, like Karl Moore, who wants to become rich, ripping people off $20 at a time.

- Set up a couple different businesses. Use slightly different mail drop box addresses for each, and have separate bank accounts at completely different unrelated banks for each business. The purpose for the separate businesses is to create and provide services to one another, paying bills and creating as much of a financial laundry as possible. Whatever you do, never, under any circumstances create any phone numbers for these businesses or have any real physical address. Use a high-tech mail drop; say like, Earth Class Mail. They will never divulge your ID to anyone without a court subpoena. Heck, you don't ever have to physically go and get your mail using their service. You've just become a nameless, faceless business. Doing this makes it a legal headache for any government agency trying to follow the money, establish ownership and gather information through the typical legal hoops. Remember, we're talking a $20 crime here! Who's got the time to get subpoenas from a judge for such a little amount of money and attempt to track it through several unrelated banks and mail drops? NOBODY.

- Now, go to GoDaddy.com and create a web address for each of your new businesses, paid for any of your new businesses - your choice. While you're filling out the web address form, simply pay the additional $5-10 to have the Whois database permanently block your personal information - forever! The only way anyone will get your info is by going to court. Nice way to spend that $5-10 huh? In Karl Moore's case, he's purchased 150 or more websites, one for each piece of junk software he is peddling. Is a DA, or Fed agency going to go to court for 150+ subpoenas just to find out who owns these sites? Not! Remember - it's a $20 crime!

- The next thing is finding web servers to host your little enterprise of 150 websites. You pick a company that is several states away from your fictitious mail drops, say, like maximumasp.com in Kentucky. You won't have to worry about these guys giving up your private contact info either. They legally don't have to unless ordered to by a court subpoena also. Besides, why would they? They'll be making a nice hunk of change from your 150 websites every month. Duh. -Now, what to sell??? How about something digital? Yeah. No paper! No packaging! No shipping! No physical returns. NO s**t. That's a great idea! Go find yourself 150 or so pieces of s**t software that have been developed by high school or college students, that sort of work, kind of, well at least they download alright. If they don't really work, too f***in bad. You'll already have the sucker's money via the credit card, and that's all it'll take, pay day. ChaChing!

- Next you'll want to create something that resembles a customer service site to deal with all the freakin headaches from distributing so much s**t product. You could call it something like, MyHelpHub.com. The main purpose of this site is not customer service; it's to buy you time until the money from the credit cards clear into your bank account. You could have a form response that takes a couple of days to issue a reply, which should give you plenty of time to secure the funds in one of your accounts. The form response also helps cover your a*s by creating a paper trail that you in-turn show to all the bank reps that are crawling up your a*s with complaints from angry customers. You can show you've made an attempt to resolve the problem via your customer service dept, which of course you never do, because you are never giving back a f***'in dime to any of those $20 idiots you've taken advantage of.

- One of the last things to take care of is getting a credit card processor who likes to make money more than doing the right thing for the consumer. Ah, you find SWREG, who happens to be owned by Digital River, one of the largest service providers of downloadable products in the world. What a perfect blend of cc processing and product distribution. These companies, just like the Whois database, will protect your identity to the death unless ordered by a court to give you up. But look, there's no f***in way they're giving your info to any consumer - they are making money every time you rip someone off, and lose money for every credit given. They are not going to do a d**n thing to give your money back. SWREG will stand behind you and make any excuse possible to defend your right to not issue a refund. No refund! Never! What a beautiful business partner!

- The last thing you will need to take care of is creating some type of legitimate looking business to counter the mountain of PR crap you will be creating for yourself if consumers find out who's been stealing from them. Maybe you're growing up, or maybe it's simply because you'll have a guilty conscious about ripping off soooo many jerks, that you want to make amends. So you create some type of phony baloney website named after yourself, like, KarlMoore.com, where you offer advice about being happy. Maybe a little psycho, but hey, you're a dirty rotten thief at heart and you've got to balance out your time on earth somehow. So what the hell.

So that's it. Karl Moore's perfect crime. $20 at a time. Layer upon layer of untraceable business dealings that no law enforcement agency will ever give a moment of their time.

If you're a victim like me, you are just out of luck. You will never see your money. And apparently there is nothing Karl Moore has to fear unless he runs into one of us on the street one day.

- Your bank and cc company can't trace the source of where your money went in order to file claim to retrieve it. - Because there is never, ever a refund, the end source of the money trail can only be found out via the legal system. - The BBB can't find any of these phantom companies to even question them. - The Whois database and the web server companies will conceal any and all registration info connecting the sites to Karl Moore's companies unless dragged into court. - Because Karl has taken such care to conceal his identity and contact info, there is no way to actually reach him personally. Like trying to find Waldo. Where in the world is Karl? On over 150 websites there is not a single phone number, working email, or viable way to actually get in touch with a human being to complain. I think he prefers it that way. - The infamous guy 'Alan' that seems to be the only guy at MyHelpHub.com, I believe to actually be Karl. Take it for what it's worth. - And the biggest problem in all of this is undoubtedly with SWREG itself. If the company had any moral compass at all, considering Digital River is publically traded, they would drop Karl and WCCL like a rock.

Bottom line... Buyer Beware!

If you end up using my advice on setting up a criminal enterprise like Karl's above, let me know how you make out.

Manny Littleton, Colorado
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/06/2008 11:16 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Karl-Moore-SWREG/Beaverton-Oregon-97005/Karl-Moore-Is-Your-Rip-off-Artist-SWREG-Is-Just-Cc-Processor-Karl-Moore-Is-THE-Rip-off-A-306892. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

Click Here to read other Ripoff Reports on Karl Moore - SWREG

Search for additional reports

If you would like to see more Rip-off Reports on this company/individual, search here:

Search Tips
Report & Rebuttal
Respond to this report!
What's this?
Also a victim?
What's this?
Repair Your Reputation!
What's this?
REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 0Consumer 3Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Official Rebuttal

AUTHOR: Karl - (United Kingdom)

Sirs,

My name is Karl Moore, I was made aware of this post -- and am happy to provide a rebuttal.

Firstly, allow me to state that this is one of three separate reports posted on the same day by "Manny" of Littleton, Colorado. I'm sorry that Manny has decided to spam the RipOffReport.com site in that way, however am happy to provide a response.

Anyone researching White Cliff, the WCCL Network, or myself, will find that the organization is incredibly transparent.

Every individual can learn about myself online at http://www.karlmoore.com/

I am certainly not a shady character hiding in the corner of a dark room. I run many open forums, where customers openly discuss their experiences with our products (such as http://www.mywriterscircle.com/).

You can also learn more about me at http://www.karlradio.com/ and http://www.karlblog.com/ and http://www.karlforum.com/

As this customer has not provided details of their order, I'm unable to comment on the specifics.

However some of the comments made in this report are quite simply lies.

Firstly, our contact information is plainly given online. You can reach our homepage at http://www.wcclnetwork.com/ -- you can even read about our charity work, or see photos of me helping out distributing to charities here (for example): http://www.karlblog.com/blog/2007/04/rak-14-youve-already-donated.html

The idea that we hide in any way is ridiculous. We do have a dropship address in the US, but that's mainly to make it easier for customers in the States to reach us. (Yes, we're UK based. We never hide that. Arguably the UK has more stringent trading laws than the US!)

The idea that we never send out physical packages is untrue. We have a distribution house in the UK and two in the US. And we send many hundreds of packets out every single week!

The "Alan" referred to is the site manager of myHelpHub.com, however he is not the only person behind the site. We have five incredibly competent support individuals providing around the clock assistance.

If Manny believes that I personally have the time to answer all of the support queries, as suggested in one of her messages, I'm afraid she's very sadly mistaken. I am not Alan.

The WCCL Network is a network of many, many different products, covering many key markets.

We have over 600,000 customers, around the same number of newsletter subscribers, over 13,000 active affiliates, and a very, very, very healthy customer satisfaction level.

We keep trying to produce high quality software products at low prices.

We also *always* honour any refund guarantees made on our sites. The idea that we don't is simply crazy. If any site promised a refund in such open terms as ourselves, the credit card company would simply reverse the transaction. Simple.

So would SWREG. Or PayPal. And before long, our accounts would be suspended.

Sorry, Manny... That's just not us, and I believe you are aware of that :)

Regarding the post where Manny states that there is no working e-mail address for myself, that is also incorrect.

Anyone can get in touch with me at karl@karlmoore.com (put "Karl Moore" in the body of the message to ensure it gets past my spam filter).

This information is published at http://www.karlmoore.com/official/contact/

I often get customers write to me directly, usually to offer support owing to the free products we offer -- and I'm always happy to assist.

Anyone that has dealt with me knows that.

I rarely write rebuttals, and will not be posting a follow-up.

However, I hope this has helped level the rather slanderous claims of Manny -- and that individuals reading this will be assured of our impeccable service levels.

If not, write to me direct -- and I'll help you myself :)

Best wishes,

Karl
http://www.karlmoore.com/
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#2 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Official Rebuttal

AUTHOR: Karl - (United Kingdom)

Sirs,

My name is Karl Moore, I was made aware of this post -- and am happy to provide a rebuttal.

Firstly, allow me to state that this is one of three separate reports posted on the same day by "Manny" of Littleton, Colorado. I'm sorry that Manny has decided to spam the RipOffReport.com site in that way, however am happy to provide a response.

Anyone researching White Cliff, the WCCL Network, or myself, will find that the organization is incredibly transparent.

Every individual can learn about myself online at http://www.karlmoore.com/

I am certainly not a shady character hiding in the corner of a dark room. I run many open forums, where customers openly discuss their experiences with our products (such as http://www.mywriterscircle.com/).

You can also learn more about me at http://www.karlradio.com/ and http://www.karlblog.com/ and http://www.karlforum.com/

As this customer has not provided details of their order, I'm unable to comment on the specifics.

However some of the comments made in this report are quite simply lies.

Firstly, our contact information is plainly given online. You can reach our homepage at http://www.wcclnetwork.com/ -- you can even read about our charity work, or see photos of me helping out distributing to charities here (for example): http://www.karlblog.com/blog/2007/04/rak-14-youve-already-donated.html

The idea that we hide in any way is ridiculous. We do have a dropship address in the US, but that's mainly to make it easier for customers in the States to reach us. (Yes, we're UK based. We never hide that. Arguably the UK has more stringent trading laws than the US!)

The idea that we never send out physical packages is untrue. We have a distribution house in the UK and two in the US. And we send many hundreds of packets out every single week!

The "Alan" referred to is the site manager of myHelpHub.com, however he is not the only person behind the site. We have five incredibly competent support individuals providing around the clock assistance.

If Manny believes that I personally have the time to answer all of the support queries, as suggested in one of her messages, I'm afraid she's very sadly mistaken. I am not Alan.

The WCCL Network is a network of many, many different products, covering many key markets.

We have over 600,000 customers, around the same number of newsletter subscribers, over 13,000 active affiliates, and a very, very, very healthy customer satisfaction level.

We keep trying to produce high quality software products at low prices.

We also *always* honour any refund guarantees made on our sites. The idea that we don't is simply crazy. If any site promised a refund in such open terms as ourselves, the credit card company would simply reverse the transaction. Simple.

So would SWREG. Or PayPal. And before long, our accounts would be suspended.

Sorry, Manny... That's just not us, and I believe you are aware of that :)

Regarding the post where Manny states that there is no working e-mail address for myself, that is also incorrect.

Anyone can get in touch with me at karl@karlmoore.com (put "Karl Moore" in the body of the message to ensure it gets past my spam filter).

This information is published at http://www.karlmoore.com/official/contact/

I often get customers write to me directly, usually to offer support owing to the free products we offer -- and I'm always happy to assist.

Anyone that has dealt with me knows that.

I rarely write rebuttals, and will not be posting a follow-up.

However, I hope this has helped level the rather slanderous claims of Manny -- and that individuals reading this will be assured of our impeccable service levels.

If not, write to me direct -- and I'll help you myself :)

Best wishes,

Karl
http://www.karlmoore.com/
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Official Rebuttal

AUTHOR: Karl - (United Kingdom)

Sirs,

My name is Karl Moore, I was made aware of this post -- and am happy to provide a rebuttal.

Firstly, allow me to state that this is one of three separate reports posted on the same day by "Manny" of Littleton, Colorado. I'm sorry that Manny has decided to spam the RipOffReport.com site in that way, however am happy to provide a response.

Anyone researching White Cliff, the WCCL Network, or myself, will find that the organization is incredibly transparent.

Every individual can learn about myself online at http://www.karlmoore.com/

I am certainly not a shady character hiding in the corner of a dark room. I run many open forums, where customers openly discuss their experiences with our products (such as http://www.mywriterscircle.com/).

You can also learn more about me at http://www.karlradio.com/ and http://www.karlblog.com/ and http://www.karlforum.com/

As this customer has not provided details of their order, I'm unable to comment on the specifics.

However some of the comments made in this report are quite simply lies.

Firstly, our contact information is plainly given online. You can reach our homepage at http://www.wcclnetwork.com/ -- you can even read about our charity work, or see photos of me helping out distributing to charities here (for example): http://www.karlblog.com/blog/2007/04/rak-14-youve-already-donated.html

The idea that we hide in any way is ridiculous. We do have a dropship address in the US, but that's mainly to make it easier for customers in the States to reach us. (Yes, we're UK based. We never hide that. Arguably the UK has more stringent trading laws than the US!)

The idea that we never send out physical packages is untrue. We have a distribution house in the UK and two in the US. And we send many hundreds of packets out every single week!

The "Alan" referred to is the site manager of myHelpHub.com, however he is not the only person behind the site. We have five incredibly competent support individuals providing around the clock assistance.

If Manny believes that I personally have the time to answer all of the support queries, as suggested in one of her messages, I'm afraid she's very sadly mistaken. I am not Alan.

The WCCL Network is a network of many, many different products, covering many key markets.

We have over 600,000 customers, around the same number of newsletter subscribers, over 13,000 active affiliates, and a very, very, very healthy customer satisfaction level.

We keep trying to produce high quality software products at low prices.

We also *always* honour any refund guarantees made on our sites. The idea that we don't is simply crazy. If any site promised a refund in such open terms as ourselves, the credit card company would simply reverse the transaction. Simple.

So would SWREG. Or PayPal. And before long, our accounts would be suspended.

Sorry, Manny... That's just not us, and I believe you are aware of that :)

Regarding the post where Manny states that there is no working e-mail address for myself, that is also incorrect.

Anyone can get in touch with me at karl@karlmoore.com (put "Karl Moore" in the body of the message to ensure it gets past my spam filter).

This information is published at http://www.karlmoore.com/official/contact/

I often get customers write to me directly, usually to offer support owing to the free products we offer -- and I'm always happy to assist.

Anyone that has dealt with me knows that.

I rarely write rebuttals, and will not be posting a follow-up.

However, I hope this has helped level the rather slanderous claims of Manny -- and that individuals reading this will be assured of our impeccable service levels.

If not, write to me direct -- and I'll help you myself :)

Best wishes,

Karl
http://www.karlmoore.com/
Respond to this report!
What's this?
Report & Rebuttal
Respond to this report!
What's this?
Also a victim?
What's this?
Repair Your Reputation!
What's this?

Advertisers above have met our
strict standards for business conduct.