• Report: #307700

Complaint Review: Keen/Ingenio

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  • Submitted: Sat, February 09, 2008
  • Updated: Sun, April 13, 2008

  • Reported By:Orange County California
Keen/Ingenio
www.keen.com.uk Internet United Kingdom

Keen/ Ingenio Keen Psychic FAKES got me too.... for over $3000 dollars London United Kingdom

*Consumer Comment: Angelbaby of Light is a scammer

*UPDATE Employee: Well said Rivka

*UPDATE Employee: Well said Rivka

*UPDATE Employee: Well said Rivka

*Consumer Comment: psychic addiction

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Keen got me too....to the tune of over $3000 in two months. Perhaps, like other emotionally vulnerable souls, I turned to this method of "counseling" to see if it could, in any way, possible provide answers to a frustrating relationship issue that was not resolving itself.

Contrary to the public stereotype of "people who call psychics" portrayed as bohemian liberals waiting for the world to change, affluent trophy wives with nothing to do between pilates class and dinner with the Spielbergs, or crazy aunt Sally, I am a well educated professional, who was as skeptical as they come, and willing to "test" these professed guides in order to catch them spreading fictional tales of happiness.

It started with a couple of short calls to different psychics...some preferred to be called "seer" or "clairvoyant" to narrow the skill or focus they studied. Some used Tarot cards (which I still really don't understand, as there are a bizillion interpretations of the "queen with her hands out", and stuff like that) and some use, other tokens to get them "on track".

I will name 25 of the specific psychics that I spoke with. Most calls were at least 10 minutes, with some longer than 45 minutes, depending upon how into the conversation we got:

Tobias the Seer; Love Guide Maria, MsCherryTwo; 4corners; Moera; DeeRe; CoralAnn Psychic Priestess; Gifts of Faith; Earnest Ernest;Aeson Knight, ElizabethFrancis;Mushana;Master Psychic Vivian (who tried to fool me with a reading based on my favorite color); Arthur Lawrence; Sister Bianca; Mistic Visions; Lisa Dianne; Augustine Master Psychic; AlphaFemale; RaineDance; Everyone's Advisor; Visions by Carmela; Stella by Starlight; Jim 1537 and Helga Morrow.

Admittedly, I was dumbfounded when one of the "good ones" came out of nowhere with specific details of my parents individual illnesses, in a call last November. Truly amazing. He could NOT have deduced that from anything I gave him. I took detailed notes during each call, and I still go back to that psychic's call notes and shake my head in disbelief that his "guesses" could have been so right on. I asked "so do you have any feelings about my parents?". That's all I said. He said "well, your mom's recouperation from lower back surgery is taking longer than even she expected, and it's not really getting any better, she's still in alot of pain", and your father is very concerned about his mortality. Seems that since his heart surgery, he is trying to get the family records in order".

Well, guess what? That is EXACTLY what was going on. I almost wet my pants it was so right on. Not sure how he did that, but of course, that was my "proof" that he was absolutely real, and off we went into an hour's conversation that cost me over $300. At the time, I thought it was worth every penny. Reading back the notes, I'm still amazed at that conversation.

HOWEVER, the stuff he said about my love relationship (which is why I called) was so far off, it was painful to hear him keep talking...I said, a few times, "really? are you sure you have HIM? It doesn't sound like you're talking about so-n-so...that's so NOT him?". They reinforce and reiterate what they say, as a technique to increase trust.
If they change their answers mid-response, we would think they are wavering. At least if they are standing by their convictions, we tend to think..."hmmm....maybe I'M WRONG about him and they really know what's going on".

In my notes from the various sessions, I can find tidbits of insight that can be applied to my situation, but could probably be applied to yours also.

I feel as though, armed with some of this education, I can be one of their advisors too!

When someone asks about trouble with a guy, or "which guy is right for me" or "does he really like me, or is he just flirting"...I could say things like they say (and tell me if this is familiar) "Well, with him it's like two steps forward, and one step back. He isn't ready for a committed relationship, but he likes you and doesn't want to lose your friendship. But when he is, you are the person he wants to be with. Yes, he is aware you like him, but you are sending mixed signals and are very independent. Back off for a bit, and just be his friend. In about 2 months you will see him come around. Yes there are other women in his life, but he keeps comparing them to you, as you represent the benchmark of what he's looking for, but that scares him". Sound at all familiar? There are many versions of this type of response, and believe me, I've heard them all. Enough to give me hope, and enough fuel to embarrass myself with this guy who "supposedly likes me" but is showing it by dating other women, ignoring me, and NOT spending time with me when I ask...hmmm.

Sounds like they are providing a foundation for my obsessive infatuation to fester, rather than encouragement to seek healthy relationships elsewhere.

I've also heard that "baiting a psychic" and trying to test them is bad, as you will be messing with their reading when it should be open and honest. I would think that, if they were psychic, they could sense that game, and would tell you that you are "blocking their vibe" or something. I think it's another way of rationalizing wrong answers.

They also say that "free will" could change the outcome of any situation. Again, carte blanche for erroneous readings. This is their way of saying that divine intervention overrules anything they say, and thus, they are not responsible for relaying accurate information.

I KNOW that there are "real" individuals out there who have innate gifts that allow them to find missing people and solve murders. This is nothing about or against those folks.

This is only about those who hide under the "for entertainment purposes only" umbrella and turn psychic readings into a despised circus sideshow, which tarnishes those with the true gift of vision.

I just took the first step toward sanity, before writing this----I closed my Keen account. Will someone let me know if there is a 12-step program to psychic hotline addition recovery? I think I'll need to attend a few meetings.

Rivka
Orange County, California
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/09/2008 07:54 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/KeenIngenio/internet/Keen-Ingenio-Keen-Psychic-FAKES-got-me-too-for-over-3000-dollars-London-United-Kingd-307700. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Angelbaby of Light is a scammer

AUTHOR: Anonymous - ()

Beware of Angelbaby of light aka "Angelica."  She is a con artist. She is the most emotionally manipulative and destructive psychic I have ever encountered. She is really deluded about her psychic ability. She strings you along with false hope and all kinds of promises and guarantees. NOTHING good comes out of talking to her.

She doesn't just waste your money, she puts you through the worst kind of emotional devastation. She leads you to make bad decisions in your life so your situation gets even worse. Then you are even more hooked on talking to her because she is the only one who understands.

She tells you stories about other clients who had to wait a long time to see her predictions manifest and how much they suffered while they were waiting. So you hope and believe maybe it will work out for you too. She knows it causes people suffering, she freely admits that, but she tells you it is worth it to keep waiting.

Not one prediction she made for me ever came to pass. She just gives a lot of false hope and wrong information. She just goes off of what you tell her.

Don't buy into all the positive feedback on her listings. Read her feedback very carefully. The same people keep calling her every few days, and she gives them the same predictions over and over for months. They sound deluded.

She pressured me for positive feedback. She uses guilt and manipulation to stop you from leaving honest feedback. She tells you that it will hurt her business and her family will starve. She tells you it is bad karma to leave a negative and something bad will happen to you if you do.

I feel instead that it would be wrong NOT to warn people about her. She gets negative feedback removed, so it whitewashes her reputation. She told me she doesn't deserve ANY negative feedback. She thinks she is innocent, no matter how wrong she is, or how much she hurts you.

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#2 UPDATE Employee

Well said Rivka

AUTHOR: Common Sense - (U.S.A.)

Rivka, your articulate accounting of your experience is excellent and will, I hope, help others avoid the pitfalls of calling Keen, or any of the other psychic lines.

Advisors on Keen DO share information -- they have what is called a "bashers list" and people who have left what they view as "negative" feedback are put on the list. Information about these clients is traded between "advisors" who aggressively market themselves and/or try to avoid accountability. Keen knows about this; it has been reported to them numerous times by advisors who feel that this is unethical, but Keen does nothing about it.

One of the wonders of this world is that living creatures, (humans included), have a "sixth sense". Naturalists notice this among the animals kingdom; pet "owners" often notice this about their cat or dog... The sad thing is that humans tend toward greed and deception and this warps many essentially valuable and potentially life-enhancing 'things' into something manipulative and damaging.

I was acknowledged as being "psychic" when I was a toddler, by my amazed parents. I get flashes of information -- and sometimes via visuals and sometimes (but less often) as "audio" (what they are fond of advertising as "clairaudience"). When I have given tarot readings in person, I have had people try to set up contracts so that they could get readings on a regular basis; I've had quite a few people I have read for give me feedback months and sometimes years later stating that what I predicted had unfolded as I stated it would and/or insights about current situations I'd given were revealed to be true and had been helpful...

...but I will tell you this: there is NO way anyone, no matter how well-honed a their "sixth sense" is, and no matter how many credentials they have, who can produce accurate readings in the assembly line way that psychic lines offer and fool clients into validating. Rarely, it is possible to make a connection with someone via phone or email and give a genuine reading -- most often it is garbage: either sham, or the "advisor" rationalizing what they are doing.

There is a lot of money to be made on psychic lines. It also increases a person's scope of clientele, while allowing a person to work from home (I'm sure you have heard kids chattering or crying in the background, TV sound, traffic noise). The unethical scammers are easier to understand than the basically good people who convince themselves that what they are doing on Keen is okay, because at least they are providing positive input that a caller can use; or they are praying for clients afterwards; or they mean no harm and don't overtly lie; or they simply add positive energy and "someone to talk to"... the rationalizations used are myriad. It is good that you see through that...

Keen and its cousins are shady and don't ever forget that. What I hope you won't shut the door on is your own intuitive ability and connection with Spirit/Life/Creator (however you want to conceptualize the Mystery); and don't shut the door fully on the possibility of receiving valid, intuition-based information from someone else -- but it should be in person and not for money.
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#3 UPDATE Employee

Well said Rivka

AUTHOR: Common Sense - (U.S.A.)

Rivka, your articulate accounting of your experience is excellent and will, I hope, help others avoid the pitfalls of calling Keen, or any of the other psychic lines.

Advisors on Keen DO share information -- they have what is called a "bashers list" and people who have left what they view as "negative" feedback are put on the list. Information about these clients is traded between "advisors" who aggressively market themselves and/or try to avoid accountability. Keen knows about this; it has been reported to them numerous times by advisors who feel that this is unethical, but Keen does nothing about it.

One of the wonders of this world is that living creatures, (humans included), have a "sixth sense". Naturalists notice this among the animals kingdom; pet "owners" often notice this about their cat or dog... The sad thing is that humans tend toward greed and deception and this warps many essentially valuable and potentially life-enhancing 'things' into something manipulative and damaging.

I was acknowledged as being "psychic" when I was a toddler, by my amazed parents. I get flashes of information -- and sometimes via visuals and sometimes (but less often) as "audio" (what they are fond of advertising as "clairaudience"). When I have given tarot readings in person, I have had people try to set up contracts so that they could get readings on a regular basis; I've had quite a few people I have read for give me feedback months and sometimes years later stating that what I predicted had unfolded as I stated it would and/or insights about current situations I'd given were revealed to be true and had been helpful...

...but I will tell you this: there is NO way anyone, no matter how well-honed a their "sixth sense" is, and no matter how many credentials they have, who can produce accurate readings in the assembly line way that psychic lines offer and fool clients into validating. Rarely, it is possible to make a connection with someone via phone or email and give a genuine reading -- most often it is garbage: either sham, or the "advisor" rationalizing what they are doing.

There is a lot of money to be made on psychic lines. It also increases a person's scope of clientele, while allowing a person to work from home (I'm sure you have heard kids chattering or crying in the background, TV sound, traffic noise). The unethical scammers are easier to understand than the basically good people who convince themselves that what they are doing on Keen is okay, because at least they are providing positive input that a caller can use; or they are praying for clients afterwards; or they mean no harm and don't overtly lie; or they simply add positive energy and "someone to talk to"... the rationalizations used are myriad. It is good that you see through that...

Keen and its cousins are shady and don't ever forget that. What I hope you won't shut the door on is your own intuitive ability and connection with Spirit/Life/Creator (however you want to conceptualize the Mystery); and don't shut the door fully on the possibility of receiving valid, intuition-based information from someone else -- but it should be in person and not for money.
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#4 UPDATE Employee

Well said Rivka

AUTHOR: Common Sense - (U.S.A.)

Rivka, your articulate accounting of your experience is excellent and will, I hope, help others avoid the pitfalls of calling Keen, or any of the other psychic lines.

Advisors on Keen DO share information -- they have what is called a "bashers list" and people who have left what they view as "negative" feedback are put on the list. Information about these clients is traded between "advisors" who aggressively market themselves and/or try to avoid accountability. Keen knows about this; it has been reported to them numerous times by advisors who feel that this is unethical, but Keen does nothing about it.

One of the wonders of this world is that living creatures, (humans included), have a "sixth sense". Naturalists notice this among the animals kingdom; pet "owners" often notice this about their cat or dog... The sad thing is that humans tend toward greed and deception and this warps many essentially valuable and potentially life-enhancing 'things' into something manipulative and damaging.

I was acknowledged as being "psychic" when I was a toddler, by my amazed parents. I get flashes of information -- and sometimes via visuals and sometimes (but less often) as "audio" (what they are fond of advertising as "clairaudience"). When I have given tarot readings in person, I have had people try to set up contracts so that they could get readings on a regular basis; I've had quite a few people I have read for give me feedback months and sometimes years later stating that what I predicted had unfolded as I stated it would and/or insights about current situations I'd given were revealed to be true and had been helpful...

...but I will tell you this: there is NO way anyone, no matter how well-honed a their "sixth sense" is, and no matter how many credentials they have, who can produce accurate readings in the assembly line way that psychic lines offer and fool clients into validating. Rarely, it is possible to make a connection with someone via phone or email and give a genuine reading -- most often it is garbage: either sham, or the "advisor" rationalizing what they are doing.

There is a lot of money to be made on psychic lines. It also increases a person's scope of clientele, while allowing a person to work from home (I'm sure you have heard kids chattering or crying in the background, TV sound, traffic noise). The unethical scammers are easier to understand than the basically good people who convince themselves that what they are doing on Keen is okay, because at least they are providing positive input that a caller can use; or they are praying for clients afterwards; or they mean no harm and don't overtly lie; or they simply add positive energy and "someone to talk to"... the rationalizations used are myriad. It is good that you see through that...

Keen and its cousins are shady and don't ever forget that. What I hope you won't shut the door on is your own intuitive ability and connection with Spirit/Life/Creator (however you want to conceptualize the Mystery); and don't shut the door fully on the possibility of receiving valid, intuition-based information from someone else -- but it should be in person and not for money.
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#5 Consumer Comment

psychic addiction

AUTHOR: Bethy - (U.S.A.)

Rivka,
I think what you wrote has some valid points. I'm a Keen reader and I recognize one of the names on your list. It is a woman who lives and breathes psychic readings. She is an addicted reader not an addicted client, so devoted to her clients, not a hustler. Since I started on Keen in 2007, I have gotton 6 keen clients to close their accounts. The work I did was to get to the core of their issues and teach the client how to work through them and not got hooked on the quick fix psychic.

I'm embarressed about the psychic world, because there is true talent out there and a lot manipulators and a lot more believers that love to give their power away. One of the most appalling things I witnessed was Silvia Brown, yes the famous Silvia. She held a workshop where I worked and was furious that she wasn't picked up in a limo, just a town car. Her workshop attendees looked like desperate followers as she just milked up their money. Silvia told the hosting staff several times to make sure her money was there when she left.

I met one of her attendees and was told that she waited 2 years for a phone session with Silvia. The day before the big event a Silvia household member called this woman and offered for $50 more an in person reading with Silvia. The desperate follower drove to LA and paid $750 for a twenty minute reading.

Clients, my advise is to listen to yourself and hear what your favorite psychic has to say. Curb your tendacy to over spend and also know that the keen advisors are not operating the technology that charges you. Corporate keen is so poorly run that the advisors don't have a clue about operations. And you have to remember anyone can become a reader on keen, it is not a psychic network that tests psychics, it is a phone service that charges a lot of money from the clients and psychics alike. Some readers are great on keen and some are ripoffs, learn how to tell the difference.

Also you can't trust the negative feedback on the comments because there is a fleet of serial bashers that purposely try to hurt the readers for competive reasons. But the positive comments are genuine.
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