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  • Report: #283150

Complaint Review: Kelley's Classics

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  • Submitted: Mon, November 05, 2007
  • Updated: Mon, December 03, 2007

  • Reported By:Odessa Washington
Kelley's Classics
101 N. Main Toluca, Illinois U.S.A.

Kelley's Classics - Bill Kelley - law Man2 ebay Scammed by Rip-Off Used Car Dealer Toluca Illinois

*Consumer Comment: To CHEVY NUT

*Consumer Comment: To CHEVY NUT

*Consumer Comment: To CHEVY NUT

*Consumer Comment: A comment to Dave in Florida

*Consumer Comment: Great Dealership and an honest man!

*Author of original report: Leaf spring bushings

*Consumer Comment: I'm a very happy former buyer

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Chevy mechanic?

*Author of original report: I want to correct a word I used in my response to the gentleman that bought the 57 Chevy.

*Author of original report: Put yourself in my shoes for a moment. Imagine finding all the things that were blatently evident the minute the car arrived.

*Author of original report: Kelley's Classics lawman-2 Ebay Toluca, Il Ripped me off

*Author of original report: Ripped off by Kelley's Classics. Toluca, Illinois

*Consumer Comment: Kelley's Classics sells great cars!

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Please read the ad!

*Consumer Suggestion: Don't put any more money into that car!

*Author of original report: Here's some more info that I had skipped

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I wanted to purchase a very nice 62 Impala SS, like one I had in high school days. I watched ebay ads for the right car. I found one that read like this.

FRAME OFF 62 Impala
(This means the car body has been removed from the frame, in order to raise it and replace floor pans, trunk pan, quarter panels, etc. Also, the frame is completely stripped and painted with an anti rust protectant, or powder coated, along with suspension parts. and all old parts such as bushings, bearings, bolts, nuts, washers, hoses, lines, cables...etc., are replaced.)

Then the ad goes on to say a story much like this..

I got this car from a guy who bought it from the original owner. The original owner blew up the high horse 327 in 1972, so he parked it in a shed until the guy I got it from purchased it in 2002. He did a frame off restoration (the dealer includes a couple of photo's of a car on a rotisserie and a frame with (what looks like) new exhaust, engine, etc.

His ad continues with .. This is a REAL Impala Super Sport, high horse 327 4-speed car.

Ok, my car in high school was a REAL Impala Super Sport, high horse 327 4-speed. ( I'm excited!!)

I try to arrange, thru a company, (offered by ebay) to have the car inspected. I pay for it. The next day I am refunded with an explanation that they don't inspect cars that old. bummer.

I call the dealer (Bill Kelley) and tell him I can not get the car inspected and ask him if he knows of any reputable mechanic services that would provide an honest inspection. He knows of none.

He then offers me his "experience" with the car. He says he's (remember this part) driven the car over 400 miles and hated to stop! It ran and drove like a dream!! It's now, he says, in his show room and there are hand prints and drool all over his show room windows from people looking at it.

Ok. I could go on and on. But, let's get to the point.

The car is purchased by me. I send a deposit to where he asks. ( this leads us off ebay. so much for ebay protection at this point).

In about short of 2 weeks I send the balance by wire from my bank to his.
About 2 1/2 weeks later the car arrived.

The car was filthy, for one thing. The rear tire was flat. It was on a ramp, inside the hauler. So, I was able to look up under the car. Cancer! OMG!
I am NOT HAPPY!! I look further. Brake fluid all over the inside of the right rear (flat) tire! And more. the exhaust and mufflers are not new. they are merely painted! The windshield has star cracks in it (several), there are no door arm rests, no visors, some of the weather stripping is missing, no sill plates, no gas pedal. should I go on?

OK, we get the car off the hauler. ( We had to pump air into the tire). I start it. Smoke comes pouring out of tail pipe. The car reaks of raw fuel.
I pull it to the curb and lift the hood. Fuel leaking out onto the intake manifold, and also thru the secondarys ( 4bbl carb) down into the engine. This is BAD!

I also notice that the engine has been spray painted. Even over existing dirt!! It's not a rebuild at all. :(

I call this Bill Kelley (kelleys classics). He is bewildered. Says the truck driver must have taken it for a joy ride?


The right rear tire, remember??? It is completely seperated and torn. HUGE BULGE explains the flat. The master cylinder is empty!!

The car steers horribly.
I put the car in a garage and put it up on stands. The steering link on the drivers side is completely gone! I pull the right rear brake drum. full of brake fluid mixed with brake dust to a compilation of mud! ( this happend while being transported?)

The stock 4-speed car has a huge hole cut into the floor for the 4 speed shifter. what happend to the factory round hole?

The headliner is pathetic! No gas pedal. The horn doesn't work. No seat belts. ( Get where I am headed here?)

I call him. I email him. a couple of days later, I email him again and again. a couple of more days. I email him to tell him that when I shut the trunk lid ( after putting a new lock in. there wasn't one) THE TAIL LAMP FELL OFF!
This man is ignoring me. Said he'd send me the arm rests and maybe some sun visors. said he told me the car wasn't PERFECT.

I said C'mon. NOT PERFECT? No Where Near it!

This will really shock you. I paid him $15,000.00 for this piece of crap!

He has not offered any refund. He has not answered my last emails. He has brushed me off.

BEWARE KELLEYS CLASSICS IN TOLUCA,ILLINOIS !!

By the way. If you go to his web site. look at all his blogs and pages, you will see the impala in the background of some of his other ads. Proving that he had the car for OVER 3 months, before he said he did. His ad said he just drove it 60 miles to his showroom! Of course, he admits to putting over 400 miles on it when I confront him (with no problems.??)

Thank you for reading this article. BEWARE Kelleys Classics in Toluca, Illinois.

Bob
Odessa, Washington
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/05/2007 08:07 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Kelleys-Classics/Toluca-Illinois-61369/Kelleys-Classics-Bill-Kelley-law-Man2-ebay-Scammed-by-Rip-Off-Used-Car-Dealer-Toluca-283150. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

To CHEVY NUT

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

Well, not really, but I don't register the cars, I just pass on the open title to the next buyer. If you register the cars, yes, I think you're only allowed 2 or 3 sales in a year.
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#2 Consumer Comment

To CHEVY NUT

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

Well, not really, but I don't register the cars, I just pass on the open title to the next buyer. If you register the cars, yes, I think you're only allowed 2 or 3 sales in a year.
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#3 Consumer Comment

To CHEVY NUT

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

Well, not really, but I don't register the cars, I just pass on the open title to the next buyer. If you register the cars, yes, I think you're only allowed 2 or 3 sales in a year.
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#4 Consumer Comment

A comment to Dave in Florida

AUTHOR: Chevy Nut - (U.S.A.)

I'm just curious.Is it legal in Florida to sell that many cars without a dealers license? I know in Illinois we have to pay taxes on car sales ,and on income.
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#5 Consumer Comment

Great Dealership and an honest man!

AUTHOR: Workingmom - (U.S.A.)

I can't beleive this nonsense!
I'll tell you what kind of dealer Bill Kelley is!
I bought a car on a Friday night, drove it home and everything was fine, the next day I drove it about 50 miles and when I parked it I noticed an oil leak. I called Bill and he said he was home sick in bed but he would look at it on Tuesday.
I decided to take it someplace else, on the way there the car started to overheat and when I got to the repair shop they said it had a blown head gasket and it would cost over $1000 to repair! I called bill and told him what had happen, he said he would tow it in and find out what the problem was. I didn't think he meant right then, he got out of bed and drove the 60 miles to pick up my car! He picked it up and took it to his shop. He didn't just drop it off and go home, he stayed and figured out it was just a stuck thermostat. the parts store was already closed so he drove back another 60 miles on Sunday to change the thermostat and he fixed the oil leak. For all this driving back and forth, towing my car and the repairs he wouldn't accept a dime! I bought this used car with no warranty and he still fixed it for free! I have driven the car over 2,000 trouble free miles since, and if anybody ever asks me where to buy a car I'm going to send them to Kelleys Classics!
I agree with Bills attorney and think he should sue this guy!
How about this: I think we should start a collection to pay the attorney fees for Bill
and save Kelleys Classics!
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#6 Author of original report

Leaf spring bushings

AUTHOR: Bob - (U.S.A.)

The gentleman is correct. The rear are Coil Springs. Not Leaf. That is what I get for rambl'n on and on with these guys. One slip and they are all over it. Let's just stick to the fact! The car was what it was. PERIOD!! The dealer made no effort to compensate. Never gave me the guys phone number who wanted to purchase the car for more. I DID NOT refuse that phone number. Proves he knew it, all along. This is the end of my entries. Thank you.
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#7 Consumer Comment

I'm a very happy former buyer

AUTHOR: Chevy Nut - (U.S.A.)

I personally inspected the car in question and found the ad to be very accurate.I actually had a copy in hand at the time.I drove the car and found it to be exactly as advertized. the only reason I didn't buy it was I decided on a 1963 Impala instead. (I had one in high school)I had looked at many others before and for the money this one was a good buy.Bill was very easy to deal with and up front about any work the cars needed.Since buying my own,two of my close friends have purchased cars from Bill and all of us are extremely happy.Some people just don't read what's right in front of them or they try to read between the lines.Just because one person didn't know what he was looking at is no reason to damage a good business's reputation. If I was Bill, I would follow his lawyers advice and sue.
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#8 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Chevy mechanic?

AUTHOR: Bill - (U.S.A.)

If anybody is really paying any attention to this guy, give this a little thought. He says the leaf spring bushings are shot, I've never seen a 62 impala with leaf springs, this must be the rarest 62 on the planet! Or he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about!

Another thing, he told me he had ordered the wheels and tires long before he got the car.
Also, I did answer everyone of his emails, I have the copies.

I never said I had a buyer that would give me more money for the car, I had a guy that had inspected the car and was willing to pay Bob what he had in the car (price of the car plus shipping) Bob declined because he had already bought the wheels and tires(I guess he couldn't use them on something else or resell them)
I'm not sure how Bob saw the '57 John bought because he's never been to my place
In closing this is just another guy that has no business driving a cool old car, maybe he should trade it for a Toyota.

If the people around here that have seen the car didn't get such a laugh out of this guy, it would be a real waste of time.
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#9 Author of original report

I want to correct a word I used in my response to the gentleman that bought the 57 Chevy.

AUTHOR: Bob - (U.S.A.)

I want to correct a word I used in my response to the gentleman that bought the 57 Chevy. I mentioned a right hand "turn" at over 40 in my response.

I meant to say, a right hand "curve" at over 40. With the end link mission from the sway bar, on the left front, there was "obviously" nothing to counter the sway/or pitch of the vehicle. The car pitched really bad. This "CURVE" is a normal state highway curve. NOT a right hand turn. Thank you.
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#10 Author of original report

Put yourself in my shoes for a moment. Imagine finding all the things that were blatently evident the minute the car arrived.

AUTHOR: Bob - (U.S.A.)

Ok, I got a little heated in my last comment/update by an insult lodged toward me.
To be truthful, I just want to say this:

The Impala was overpriced by about $4,000.00. This is, in my experienced opinion, a very fair and reasonably accurate quote.

I had just completed a frame off restoration of a 1971 Chevelle SS. Numbers matching big block 4-speed car. A lot of the work I did myself. The rest was professionally done.

I sold it to a dealer in Ontario, Idaho for his own personal collection.

I knew that this Impala SS would not stand up to the Chevelle that I had just finished. Without question. That is a fair statement.

I did expect, an honest description of the car. At least a description that was Close to what the car was. And, a car that merrited $15,000.00.

Let me get to some more detail about the previously mentioned problems that were obvious, when the car arrived.

The fuel was leaking all over the intake and down into the engine thru the secondaries.There was silicone on the accellerator pump. Probably the reason is was locked up tight., and leaking.

There were home made gaskets on the carberator adjusting screws. Not the metal ones that should have been there. When I tried to adjust the fuel bowl float to the secondaries, the gasket fell apart. The fuel leak became a flood. I looked at the primary float level adjuster screw and realized that it was the same. Home made gasket there too.

The throttle linkage was put together with quite the McGiver ingenuity. Nuts with the edges ground off to serve as bushings, nuts and washers used as spacers, you get the idea. What else was mickey moused?? Decided to buy a new carb. Chances were that if I bought a rebuild kit, the carb fuel blocks may have been wharped. Then, that money for the kit would just go on and on for whatever more parts that were bad, or mickey moused. Better just get a new one, right? That's what I did.

Bought a set of new end links to replace the missing one, on the front sway bar (the bushings were shot on the other one). Bought a new wheel cylinder and new shoes for the rear. Had the drum turned. Bought new sill plates, as there were none. Bought a new bucket seat retainer, as the one on the drivers seat was "gone." The driver's seat back was barely on the pivot bolt, with no retainer! Imagine that coming off on the interstate? Bought a new gas pedal, as there was not one.

Bought new seat belts, as there were none. Bought new arm rests, as there were none, and the dealer did not send any. Bought new rear view mirror, as this one had lost all the silvering off of it, and was difficult to use. Bought new tires and wheels., for obvious reasons, if you've read the first entry about the condition of the tires, upon arrival. Bought hood springs. Badly needed. Bought gromets for the firewall, as the originals were gone. Will need a new windshield. Dealer stated this one had a blem in the bottom corner. Said nothing about the multiple star cracks. Bought new wiper switch, as the wipers do not work. Switch hasn't arrived yet. Still need visors, and visor mounting, etc. Adjusted the steering box, both the gear and sector. Now, the steering only has about 45 degrees of play (instead of the 90 degrees it had when it arrived) before actuall control.

However, the car still is all over the road. The bushings, ball joints, Idler Arm, and tie rod ends are badly worn and need replaced. I ran this car out of town on the highway for about two miles. Got up to 60 and it literally scared me! Honestly! This is after I put on the new end links, adjusted the steering, fixed the seat, and new tires and wheels. Looked at bushings in rear trailing arms, and leaf spring ends. No surprise, they are shot.......also.

The car is reasonably straight, and the paint job is descent. Though, not a professional job.
The transmission needs bearings, and a 2nd to 1st degree syncro, at least.

The shifter needs rebuilt. Without question.
The headliner...... honestly...... should be torn out and a new one installed.....correctly.

The radio doesn't work. The dome lites don't work. The glove box will not open. These things I can fix. However, for the price I paid.... they should have worked., including the wipers. The windows do not work fluently. There are rollers and track adjustments that can probably fix that. Again, I can fix these things. However........ The car, for its price should not have had these problems.

This is not a "numbers match" Impala. It also is not a 409 Impala SS.

These (409 SS) are the ones that are bringing the $30,000.00 that the dealer mentions in his rebuttal. See for yourself.

Go to Ebay and price out these cars out. Not what the people are "asking" for these Impala's. But, what they are "actually getting!"

Finally.....
Bear in mind the condition of mine, as I received it. The shock at finding the cancer, which I have photo's, on this "Frame Off" restoration.

Put yourself in my shoes for a moment. Imagine finding all the things that were blatently evident the minute the car arrived. Some of which was found before the car even came off the trailer!

I have lots of witness's. I have lots of photo's. I have a color print out of his ad. I have saved camparable auction listings. Honestly, my witness's heard the car hauler, who witnessed my looking the car over, suggest that I should "sue." True story!

This is a dealer that had this car for several months, claims he drove it for hundreds of miles with his family in it? Had it up to over 70 mph? WOW!!!!!

This is all I really need to say.
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#11 Author of original report

Kelley's Classics lawman-2 Ebay Toluca, Il Ripped me off

AUTHOR: Bob - (U.S.A.)

I have read Bill Kelley's rebuttal, and his friends comments. As I said in my report, the car was a pice of crud! As to my needing to buy a toyota? Immature.

I was a certified chevrolet mechanic for over 18 years. This is how I know what I have received, in comparison to what was advertised. Also, to this immature 57 chevy owner. I was in auto sales for over 13 years with many awards!
Believe me son, I know my chevrolets. This car was NOT the car I believed, by the ad, that I was buying. Would you know better than me?, I think not!!

You didn't notice that it wandered all over the road? You didn't notice that it swerved real hard, almost out of control on a right hand turn at over 40? C'mon!!!

You obviously didn't notice that the rear end was bumping up and down at a slow roll?? Plllleeeeeease!!!

I have, as I said before, PHOTOS!

Also, I have a Color, Printed, copy of the ad. Put the two together and..Somebody was NOT being truthful about the condition of the car.

I saw the 57 Chevy that you bought. lol
And you didn't buy the Impala? You'd better read your own comments!!

lol
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#12 Author of original report

Ripped off by Kelley's Classics. Toluca, Illinois

AUTHOR: Bob - (U.S.A.)

Here's an update to my report, based on the dealers rebuttal.

Absolute nonsense!!

I have photo's!! Anyone interested in seeing them can email me (((ROR removed for security purposes))) That will be the end of his nonsense.

Once you see them, you will know for yourselves, there is NO WAY that anyone in their right mind would take ANYONE for a trip in this car. Ask for the photo's!!! NO WAY!!!!

By the way, he never did send me the arm rests or sun visors, etc.!!!

Never heard a "peep" out of him.

As to his claim that these cars sell on Ebay for $30,000.00. Well, my reply is this.

I have been watching these cars on Ebay. In fact I have saved them in my search! I have about 15 of them saved.
I will be happy to forward any of these to anyone who cares, decide for yourself., based on the evidence of this particular vehicle.

My point is that this car WAS NOT even CLOSE to what Mr. Kelley claimed. NOT EVEN CLOSE!

And, additionally, he blew me off. If he had a better offer, then why didn't he offer to take the car back?? Make the addional profit that he claims the gentleman offered?? I have to laugh.

Oh yes, I saved the Ebay ad. I printed it out. I am more than happy to back up my statements!!

Beware Kelley's Classics, Toluca, Il

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#13 Consumer Comment

Kelley's Classics sells great cars!

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I too was looking for an Impala SS (so I thought) I saw the corona cream car on Ebay and made arrangements to inspect it. When I got to Kellys The car was parked outside and looked great. I inspected the car and found it to be just as it was described, Bill asked if I wanted to go for a drive. The car started right up and had no smoke or carb problems he drove the car out into the country about 10 miles and asked if I wanted to drive it. I started back towards his shop, the car did have some play in the steering but nothing unusual or bad, the car ran and drove great, the transmission and shifter worked great as did the brakes. I was in love until I walked into his shop and saw the 57 Chevy that I now own!

I think maybe The person that started this has no idea how to spin a wrench and should have bought a Toyota.

I sent my brother to kellys and he can't thank me enough for getting him such a great deal on his 55 Chevy.
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#14 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Please read the ad!

AUTHOR: Bill - (U.S.A.)

In response to Bob in Wa.
1. I explained that the car was not a show car but simply a driver(read the ad)

2.I did drive the car over 400 miles without any problems and 180 of that was on the expressway at 70 mph.I took my daughter to school, I took it to the kids games, I took it to the store and I took my daughter out for dinner and a cruise. I would never put my 9 year old daughter in a car that I thought was unsafe.

3. After talking to Bob before he bought the car I realised he was expecting more than what it was so I told him to please look elsewhere(I have the email I sent him if you want to read it)

4. When Bob insisted he had to have this car I told him to please have the car inspected by a third party. He declined.

5.Never did I state that the frame had been powder coated or that any work was done to the chassis of the car, I simply stated that the body had been off the frame but I have no idea what work was performed.

6. When Bob first contacted me about the car and stated he was unhappy I told him I had the phone number of a man in CA. that had inspected the car and would be more than happy to purchase it from him for what he had in it. He declined the offer.

7. I never stated the car had a new exhaust on it.

8. I stated in the ad that it needed a new windshield.

9. As I told Bob the car is not a $30,000 car and that is what a mint 1962 Impala SS is selling for.

Bob is trying to relive his childhood and thats great but he might have forgotten that these cars are over 40 years old now.

I run a small car dealership that is more of a self sustaining hobby than a business I love being around these cars and have happy customers all over the world. I'm sorry that Bob isn't happy ,it really does bother me however if he had payed a little more attention to the ad and the emails I sent him maybe he wouldn't be so upset or if he was a real car guy maybe he'd understand a little better.
I will not stand by and have somebody slander my dealership like this, I have contacted my attorney and sent him all the emails Bob and I sent to each other, with the Ebay ad and he agrees that I did nothing wrong and even encouraged Bob to look elsewhere for a car, he has suggested that I file a law suite against Bob, I don't really want to but how much is his post going to hurt my business?
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#15 Consumer Suggestion

Don't put any more money into that car!

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

I sell classic cars on Ebay for a hobby. I have sold over 100 cars, and have never had a complaint. Just about everyone that I have sold my cars to said that I didn't give the car enough credit, it was more beautiful than described, etc.

It burns me when I see stuff like this happening. Don't do anymore work on the car. The first thing you should do is to print the ad from Ebay. It remains in the system for 90 days. Print it off in color.

Have the car inspected by a local appraiser. Take the ad and the inspection to a lawyer and sue the crap out of the guy. You can't lose. He will have to come to your state for the trial, which he will lose anyway, so he may think it wiser to pay you off.

In the future, look in the internet yellow pages for Appraisers in the state that you are buying the car in. Call them up, pay with a credit card, and have the car appraised. You will get an unbaised appraisal, with tons of pictures and a complete write-up of the car, it's value and it's condition.

You blew it when you went outside of Ebay to make the deal, sight unseen. Never do that. At the very least, you could've gotten Ebay involved, not that it would've done much good...
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#16 Author of original report

Here's some more info that I had skipped

AUTHOR: Bob - (U.S.A.)

The car is corona creme, for those of you who want to search his blogs. The hood hinges are bad, the hood wont close properly. I get under to put on new end links and find that the car has been in an accident!! The frame horns have been replaced!! I had to purchase new tires. The corvette ralleye wheels are old, rusted and pitted, the tires are junk. The oil is black and down over a quart. The transmission "howls". The 4 speed shifter is very sticky and sometimes wont shift. The windows roll up and down with great difficulty. The body has been cut, in order to get to bolts to mount onto frame. (Shabby work, at best). The wheel wells have been torn and folded back to get at other bolts. The left fender brace is not bolted to the frame, the right fender brace is GONE! The turn signal switch does not return to center, after turn is completed. The horn does not work. The steering is so loose that you can turn it 90 degrees before it will even catch to even start to turn the tires. The frame horns that were replaced are already cancerd thru. ( I poked a hole in one, testing it to see how solid it was. Can you imagine the frame horn ripping off, at the steering box, going down the highway at 70? Well, that is what it is about to do.

So, now I'm looking to find solid frame horns, and a shop to put them on. This is a continuing story. I've only had the car for less than two weeks. I haven't found out EVERYTHING, yet!
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