- Report: #716126
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: Keystone RV
Keystone RV2642 Hackberry Drive PO Box 2000 Goshen, IN. 46527 Westerville, Ohio United States of America
Keystone RV Keystone, Thor Industries, Keystone RV Company Keystone, Keystone RV, Keystone RV Company, Keystone Alpine. Alpine, Alpine 3500, Travel Trailer, Fifth Wheel, 5th Wheel, Westerville, Ohio
*Author of original report: You may be entitled to compensation if you own a Keystone RV Company travel trailer
*Author of original report: Keystone RV states they need to replace the entire front-to-back walls on a 152 day-old Keystone Alpine 3500 RE.
*Author of original report: Typo Errors
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During the period that my 292BH was in for service, I began looking at larger 5th wheel units.
On September 22, 2010 I had initial discussions regarding ordering a new 2011 Keystone Alpine 3500RE with Eddie Holmberg, a sales representative of Holman Motors, including expected delivery date. Further discussions on this date with two representatives of Holman Motors stated that the expected delivery date would be approximately three weeks. I relied upon these representations when making my decision to order this Keystone Alpine 3500 RE.
On September 23, 2011 I received the ordering documents from Holman Motors and told Holman Motors and that I would sign and scan them and return them the following day via eMail with a $5,000.00 deposit check via regular mail. At this juncture I was expecting delivery on approximately October 14, 2010.
The following day, on September 24, 2010, I placed an ordered for a NEW 2011 Keystone Alpine 3500 RE through Holman Motors that included additional options not normally available on dealer inventory units, such as dual A/C units, Generator Preparation the Trail Air Pin Box, Central Vac, 2 Bar Stools, End Table w/Lamp, dual 6-volt deep cycle batteries, four (4) Larger 40# LP bottles and multiple other additions that would be installed at the Keystone factory or at Holman Motors upon delivery. Therefore, the unit had to be special ordered by the dealer from Keystone RV. Holman Motors required a deposit of $5,000.00 to place the order, which I sent and which Holman Motors accepted and deposited.
Later on September 24, 2010 I had a conversation with Eddie Holmberg, the sales rep at Holman Motors who stated that he wanted to get my order into Keystone because his Keystone RV sales Rep (Adam) stated that he would have the new unit to me by the end of October at the very latest. This was disappointing since I had now sent in a $5,000.00 deposit with a signed order, and already the delivery date had been pushed by a couple of weeks. Prior to sending in a signed order and a $5,000.00 deposit, I had relied upon the representations of Holman Motors and the Keystone sales rep, Adam that the unit would be delivered within approximately three weeks.
On September 28, 2010 I received word from Holman Motors that the Keystone factory had accepted my order and we were awaiting ETA off-line date.
During further conversations and email messages with Holman Motors, the delivery date had changed again to November 1, 2010 and then an absolute concrete delivery date of November 4, 2010.
During a conversation with my Eddie Holmberg, my Holman Motors sales rep, he stated that Keystone Alpine had been sharing an assembly line with another of their brands, and therefore they had lost two weeks in production. The Keystone RV sales rep and Eddie Holmberg of Holman Motors had confirmed that the promised delivery date was November 4, 2010. However, now the off-line date was changed again to December 6, 2010. A cursory examination of the arithmetic suggests that the new delivery date would be mid November if Keystone RV had lost two weeks in their production schedule. A new delivery date of over thirty (30) days suggests that and additional two weeks has somehow been mysteriously added to the delivery schedule. According to Eddie Holmberg of Holman Motors, the sales rep from Keystone RV, Adam could not provide a coherent explanation for those two additional weeks.
So, my question at that juncture was, what happened to the other two weeks? I was losing confidence in anything that I was being told by Eddie Holmberg, my Holman Motors sales rep or that came from the Keystone RV sales rep. I would not have ordered the unit in September and made a $5,000 deposit if I had even thought the delivery date would be nearly three months away. Keystone RV and my Holman Motors, which I relied upon prior to making this purchase, made very explicit representations. These representations turned out to be fallacious.
October 16, 2010 I told my Eddie Holmberg of Holman Motors of my disappointment that Keystone RV accepted an order and deposit knowing that they could not deliver on the promised date, and that the Keystone Rep (Adam) was totally unresponsive. Keystone already lied to me about delivery dates, and therefore I do not believe that they will deliver on any date that they promise.
October 27, 2011 The Keystone sales rep (Adam) still has not gotten back to my dealer rep. Eddie Holmberg of Holman Motors regarding an off line estimate close to the 4th of November date that had previously been promised.
October 29, 2011 My Holman Motors dealer rep, Eddie Holmberg agrees that Keystone RVs veracity is questionable. I indicated that I wanted to cancel the order and get my deposit returned. Initially, Eddie Holmberg of Holman Motors stated, Its a non refundable deposit. I explained that the deposit was based upon an initial delivery estimate of three weeks from the date of the order and then a promised delivery date of November 4, 2010. After explaining briefly that Holman Motors probably did not have the right to hold my $5,000.00 deposit past the promised delivery date, as that constituted a breach of the agreement, Eddie Holmberg became a little less instant that the deposit was not refundable, and in turn began a diatribe about how this deal was not even worth his time like it was my fault. Eddie Holmberg of Holman Motors stated that the people at Keystone RV sounds like a bunch of morons.
Since trying to get my deposit returned and cancel the order would probably require more than $5,000.00 in legal fees, I felt no alternative but to continue waiting for the delivery of the new Keystone Alpine 3500 RE.
The Keystone Alpine 3500 RE allegedly came off-line on December 1, 2010. It was delivered to Holman Motors and I picked it up on December 8, 2010.
When I arrived at Holman Motors on December 8, 2010, I did a normal delivery walk around the Keystone Alpine 3500 RE. However, because of the inclement weather, the walk around was somewhat limited.
As of this review, I have owned this 2011 Alpine 2500RE for a total of 122 days, and have actually used the unit for less than 40 days. It has otherwise been parked in a secured lot with an RV cover.
Form picking up the Keystone Alpine 3500 RE at Holman Motors in Cincinnati, I went North Carolina to visit a few friends where I stayed for five days. I then went to Columbia, South Carolina to visit my brother who had recently been diagnosed with 5th stage prostate cancer. From Columbia, South Carolina, I had planned to continue my travels to Florida, eventually arriving in Key West. However, during the first couple of weeks, the new clothing washer failed and, while visiting my brother in Columbia, South Carolina, the Keystone Alpine 3500 RE slides failed. It took over five gallons of hydraulic fluid just to get the slides to retract so the vehicle was towable. I was told that I had to return to the selling dealer, Holman Motors in Cincinnati. Never did anyone from either Keystone RV or Holman Motors even offer to pay the cost for diesel fuel for my Ford F-350 6.4L which gets roughly 11 12 MPG while towing this Keystone Alpine 3500 RE.
During the few months that I have owned this unit, please click the Problems Tab to read of just a little over THIRTY (30) of the problems I have experienced.
1. I had two six-volt deep cycle batteries installed in the Keystone Alpine 3500 RE at the Holman Motors. One of those batteries failed. It appears that the failure is arguably because the steel frame holder for the batteries is slightly too small and the battery was forced into place causing it to crack. Photos and video of this area are included with this review of my 2011 Keystone Alpine 3500 RE.
2. The carpeting has excessive wear patterns as though the unit has been arguably used for a RV show, a dealer trade whereby it had been shown excessively, or perhaps a heard of cattle had been taken through the unit. Photos and video are included with this review of the Keystone Alpine 3500 RE.
I had paid an additional $1,200 for Paint and Fabric protection. The carpeting looks very old and worn. According to a conversation I had with the representatives of Holman Motors on September 22, 2011, this paint and fabric protection provides a five-year warranty on paint & fabric and covers up to a 2-inch tear in fabric. The carpeting looks terrible. Please see photos and video that are included with this Keystone Alpine 3500 RE Review.
3. The cabinet that holds trashcan completely came apart It was obvious that it had not been cut properly and was only held together with a few staples and screws. I had to glue it together. Additionally, several of the screws that hold the hinge on were screwed in until they completely stripped thereby providing zero support.
4. While visiting Columbia, South Carolina on the first trip out, the hydraulic slides failed. I had to add five gallons of hydraulic fluid just to get the slides to come in.
5. I paid roughly $2,500 for a stackable washer and dryer. On the first trip, the washing machine failed. Holman Motors stated that I would have to proceed under warranty. I explained that I did not purchase a washer that would need warranty work on its first use, and that I wanted it exchanged for a new washer. My intended itinerary was to travel from South Carolina to Florida. However, after the failure of the hydraulic slides and numerous other concerns, I took the unit back to Holman Motors in Cincinnati. Never did the Holman Motors or Keystone RV even offer to pay for my transportation and fuel costs.
I arrived at Holman Motors late on a Saturday and Holman Motors was closed. They allowed us to park in their lot, however we were unable to leave except when they had a guard on duty that could unlock the gate. The slides were stuck closed, so two adults and two dogs were stuck in the bedroom. We could not access food because the slides were closed. I have had eight heart surgeries, and I am brittle diabetic. Because tree slides could not be opened, I could not access food or my medication. No one at Holman Motors ever even checked to see if we were okay. We werent. I became very ill as no one at Holman Motors even had the curtsey to check on us until they opened on Monday morning.
6. I noticed that every time I filled the fresh water tank, massive amounts of water was filling the baggage/cargo compartment. I removed the panel to inspect where the water was leaking. I discovered that many of the screws holding the paned on were tightened until they stripped, and the wooden frame built to hold the panel had screws put in until it completely split the wood framing. I further noted that water lines and electrical wires were not tied, crossed over one another and it appeared that the entire build job was in complete disarray.
Nevertheless, according to a Columbus, Ohio Keystone RV dealership, Keystone RV representatives told them that the photos I had sent showing the area behind the panel is a normal build and up to code.
Had I known that this was a normal build in accordance with Keystone RV quality standards, I would have never bought a Keystone Alpine 3500 RE from Keystone RV. I relied upon the representations made in the Keystone RV videos published on YouTube and on Keystone RVs website that the quality standards were second to none. In my opinion, the photographs and video I have of my new Keystone Alpine 3500 RE do not reflect second to none quality.
You can review the sales videos produced by Keystone RV for the Alpine 3500 RE at the following links. These are the representations that I relied upon when selecting to purchase a Keystone RV Alpine 3500 RE.
Although I had used some plumbers putty and tightened the fill hose connection, put sealer around the water works area, water continues to leak into the baggage/cargo compartment. When the panel in the baggage/cargo compartment is closed, it compresses the water lines. It is possible that because the water lines were arguably cut too long causing them to compress and causing a joint to leak.
All wiring, heat ducting, and water hoses are assembled without ties, very disorganized and arguably dangerous. Basically everything just stuffed in. Saw dust left behind, very dirty area. Im am wondering if I was arguably sold a RV Show Demo Model for a Keystone RV show. For a brand new 5th Wheel that allegedly came off the assembly line just a few days before I picked it up, it had an extraordinary amount of rust and corrosion. In my opinion, the workmanship on this unit is nothing short of horrible.
7. I can feel an electrical shock when touching the water heater. Despite the representations made by Keystone RV representatives to the dealer working with me in Columbus, Ohio, that everything they are seeing in my photographs are a normal build and in accordance with code, I do not believe that feeling an electrical shock when touching the water heater is in accordance with code.
8. There is water leaking into underbelly (unsure from where).
9. As I had the panels removed from the baggage/cargo area, I noticed that two of the vents on the furnace normally used to attach ducting to the furnace were open. I closed them, but they should probably be taped. I also noticed that large gaps exist at the hose connections to the furnace. In my opinion, a professional build would include using metallic heat duct tape to insure unnecessary loss of heat.
10. When Holman Motors inspected the hydraulic slide issue, they noted that a hose blew off of the opposing slide and all hydraulic fluid was leaking into the under belly. They also stated that one of the heat duct hoses was completely disconnected which explained why the living room area was cold while the bedroom was unbearably hot. I have no way of knowing how much hydraulic fluid contaminated the underbelly, insulation or other areas of the unit. However, at least five gallons of hydraulic fluid blew through the failed hose. Heat vent to living room was not connected. Holman Motors said they reconnected it. Still not working properly. If heat in living room is comfortable, the bedroom is unbearably hot. Supposedly this was fixed at Holman Motors It may have been worked on, but it wasnt fixed.
11. I had a flat right rear tire on the unit. I replaced it with the spare and took the flat tire to several different facilities that could not locate a leak. I then took the tire to the closest tire center that is experienced with trailer tires to my home. They could not locate any leak in the tire. Finally, the technician noted that the leak was actually a small defect (crack) in the aluminum wheel itself. According to Keystone, they only use the best part on their units. I am understandably very concerned with all of the wheels on this unit.
12. While in Key West, Florida, I noted that the baggage/cargo compartment door latches had been mounted until the screws stripped. The baggage doors could not be safely closed for traveling. I had to glue them on, but that is not holding. According to the Keystone dealer in Columbus, I may have voided my warranty. My answer was, should I have just driven the vehicle and let the doors tear off? The answer was I could have taped them. I am checking with the state departments of highway safety in all states from Florida to Ohio to see if they are in agreement with Keystone RV. I cannot imagine the damage and hazard to life that one of those doors tearing off could cause to a following vehicle and its occupants. Just my opinion, but I dont think tape is the answer.
13. According to Keystones claims, which I relied upon, the cabinetry is meticulously crafted. What I discovered is many of the screws are tightened until they striped thereby providing zero support. Some of the cabinetry is cut wrong and therefore does not fit together properly. It is not in my opinion meticulously crafted.
14. Mounting support strips for slide-out skirt broke off on both sides appears screws were stripped. I had to glue them on. Unsure if it will hold.
15. The gearing on the slides was not greased. I greased them.
16. The molding/stripping in water-works area not applied correctly and coming off. The screws wearer tightened until they striped. I had to glue it on.
17. Speaker fell off ceiling above television. Appears that the screws were tightened until they stripped, they by providing no support.
18. The cable / satellite wiring does not appear correct. I was able to hook up my satellite service, but could not get cable to work with the cable outlet. Had to bring the coaxial cable through the back window and connect it directly to the television.
19. The window shade on the back window is mounted crooked.
20. Water pump mounted directly on a wooden surface. No vibration insulation and therefore very noisy.
21. Water pump is working intermittently. After winterizing, the water pump stopped working when trying to put through the last gallon of RV Antifreeze.
22. Keyless entry keypad fell off. I glued it on.
22. Shower head will not stay up keeps sliding down the pole. Holman Motors said they fixed that when the unit was returned to fix the blown hydraulic hose. The showerhead continues to slide down the pole. It is extremely annoying trying to take a shower with a shower that continues to slide to a lower position.
23. One of the roof vents was not installed properly. It fell off. I used some Dicor to hold it on.
24. The carpeting seems to be excessively worn. Definitely did not appear to be new carpeting, and if it was new, it was either not treated in accordance with the $1,295.00 treatment I purchased, or it is the cheapest carpeting the world. This unit has only been occupied for roughly 43 days since new, and no one since I accepted delivery has EVER worn shoes in the unit. It just seems like there are traffic patterns (see photos and videos) that look like a stampede of people were through this unit.
25. Refrigerator door handle was broken.
26. The bottoms of all four dinette chairs fell off. I had to glue them back on.
27. Two of the steps of the rear ladder were broken. Only two small screws hold each ladder step on one screw on each side.
28. The 40# Propane tanks do not appear to me to be new tanks, or the manufacturer very poorly paints them. The first and second set of 40# tanks that arrived at Holman Motors for my unit had bent heads. I find it difficult to understand how a manufacturer of new propane tanks would ship their new tanks in a manner whereby the heads could get damaged.
29. There are leaking and delaminating seams along the bottom of the upper level.
30. The wooden frame for the cover for the woofer speaker was broken. Had to glue it back together.
31. For a brand new trailer, there seems to be excessive rust and corrosion on areas of the frame, axel and undercarriage and slide mechanisms. I used rust-oleum on all of the bolts holding the undercarriage because they were so rusty I was concerned with their structural integrity.
32. The underbelly appears to be sagging excessively as though there is a great deal of weight that should perhaps be attached to the frame being held by a flimsily piece of corrugated treated board.
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/10/2011 09:39 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Keystone-RV/Westerville-Ohio-43081/Keystone-RV-Keystone-Thor-Industries-Keystone-RV-Company-Keystone-Keystone-RV-Keystone-716126. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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