• Report: #449490

Complaint Review: Kross Lieberman & Stone

  • Submitted: Thu, May 07, 2009
  • Updated: Mon, November 07, 2011

  • Reported By:Lawrence Kansas
Kross Lieberman & Stone
1110 Navaho Dr Ste 501 Raleigh, North Carolina U.S.A.

Kross Lieberman & Stone Fraud with Gamepal.com and Kross Lieberman & Stone Raleigh North Carolina

*UPDATE Employee: Employee Update: Not Even A Real Customer

*Author of original report: Please...

*UPDATE Employee: Employee Update: Customer Stole Account Back

*Author of original report: Hopefully this is over

*Consumer Comment: Similair experience and helpful information

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Kross Lieberman & Stone contacted me stating that I owe Gamepal.com $400+ for an account I sold them. I have never sold anything from Gamepal.com and Kross Lieberman & Stone stated the only evidence they had was my email address and an online game (world of warcraft). I asked Marvin at KLS about the lack of evidence and the mass amounts of accusations of fraud from Gamepal.com and KLS and he stated that they "believe" their customer is in the right. I stated I would be contacting a lawyer about this and that I would not be paying them any money. He then stated it would effect my credit. Kross Lieberman & Stone are committing fraud knowingly and should have legal consequences. When I stated this to him he once again stated that they "believe" their customer.

Lawrence, Kansas

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/07/2009 05:37 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Kross-Lieberman-Stone/Raleigh-North-Carolina-27609/Kross-Lieberman-Stone-Fraud-with-Gamepalcom-and-Kross-Lieberman-Stone-Raleigh-North-C-449490. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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2Author 3Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 UPDATE Employee

Employee Update: Not Even A Real Customer

AUTHOR: GP Agent - (United States of America)

Dear Jacob,

As stated, if you have a collection related issue, you could have visited our website and had the issue removed if it was indeed "unauthorized". However we received no communication from you on this matter so therefore we were unable to assist you. As well, the information you referenced in this report provided no documentation or claim number which we can reference off of so there is very little we can do as we have had over 2 million transactions initiated through our company and we cannot guess who you are.

Unfortunately, we can only control things based on the information we have. If someone used your information to do a transaction with our company, they submitted some form of government or financial documentation stating they were you. While GP has done their best to try to control identify theft, they are not the ones who initiated this transaction.

Lastly, the company you are referencing in this claim is the former company who owned the rights to GP. The company who acquired the rights being the one I represent has no claim or has never done any business with you. While we will assist in resolving any outstanding matters before the time we acquired the rights to GP, we don't own the company who previously did business with you nor do we own the collection company referenced in this dispute.

As for the Stronzo14 comment, he referenced a company that GP has never owned or was not involved with this transaction. While we aren't sure why he posted a complaint naming the wrong company, his comment is nothing more than a statement and is not a direct complaint.

While we're sorry that you experienced such trouble on this Kross related issue, if you feel this issue has been resolved, then no further work needs to be done on our end. However, as I warned in the last e-mail, it would be wise to clear up this issue with our department as the issue could be recurring which we can close permanently with proper feedback on your end.

- GP
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#2 Author of original report


AUTHOR: Jacob - (U.S.A.)

This is a sorry attempt at a rebuttle from gamepal. 

A.  This was a fraudulant charge.  I did not sell an account to gamepal.
B.  This was a fraudulant charge.  No debt is due to your compan from anything I purchased, because I did not purchase anything.
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#3 UPDATE Employee

Employee Update: Customer Stole Account Back

AUTHOR: GP Agent - (United States of America)

Dear Lawrence,

If you have a collection agency related issue with the former company who owned GamePal, go to this link to resolve your issue:


I will note that the reason you are in collections is that either

A). A debt is due to our company from a transaction you purchased
B). The account you sold us was reclaimed and Gamepal Inc has significant proof that you reclaimed the account.

Filing a cease and desist will get them to stop trying to contact you but it won't resolve the issue with the debt due. Besides the point, with all the time you spent rebuttaling this complaint, you could have just e-mailed support and resolved the issue within minutes.

- GP
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#4 Author of original report

Hopefully this is over

AUTHOR: Jacob - (U.S.A.)

After dealing with this for almost a year I think it is finally over.  To solve this issue I first wrote a cease and desist letter to Kross Lieberman & Stone.  Once doing this they can no longer contact you directly. After doing this they immediatly put a negative report on my credit.  I filed a complaint with my credit report through experian (great company that really helped me out fast).  My credit was reversed in just a few days.  After this I wrote a complaint to the Kansas and North Carolina Attorney Generals office of consumer protection. 

KLS wrote back to the Kansas AG and basically lied about everthing I had discussed with the agent of KLS.  So in response I made copies of all my bank statments dating back to the time they say I cashed a check, blacking out all the identifying information (so they wouldnt steal my account).  I sent this to the Attorney General and they sent it to KLS.  KLS immediatly stopped all correspondance with them and myself.  KLS never, after multiple attempts from the North Carolina AG, responded to them. 

Sounds like a deceiving and threatening company that should be shut down. 

Anyway thats how I solved it and hope everyone has some success with them.

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#5 Consumer Comment

Similair experience and helpful information

AUTHOR: Stronzo14 - (Australia)

It's amazing to hear so many stories about the same business...

www.gametag.com is a deadset fraudulent company/business.

I'm located outside the US (Australia) and have had a similair experience as to all of you.

I bought an account.
Never received it.
PayPal claim rejected in gametag's favour. Got a chargeback done through my back.
Got my money back.
Now receiving emails from Gametag advising me of their collections procedures with Kross.

Funnily enough, my corporate 'career' started out in collections.
I used to be a collections officer for a well known bank and now work as a fraud/credit analyst for a telecommunications company in Australia.

I am very well educated with the collections processes and laws in Australia, however I am not 100% sure of how they work in the US.
Though I'll give you a brief rundown and example of how a typically default/collections procedure works LIGITAMATELY in Australia (Could be very similair in the states) :

You need to read and understand this carefuly so you know where you stand.

Company (A) is a phone company.
Company (B) is a debt collectors agency.
Company (C) is a credit reporting agency.

- Customer creates an account with Company (A).
- Customer doesn't pay bills with company (A) for over to 100 days.
- Company (A) goes to Company (B) and files a report to chase the customer.
As soon as the report is made, Company (A)
does have the right to create a Default through company (C).

(In Australia, a default only lasts 5 years. It is simply a black mark on your credit rating)

We're talking about LEGITIMATE process here through legitimate companies, so this all contradicts the possibility of www.Gametag.com or Gametag processing a default on your credit files due to the fact that it is not LEGITIMATE/LEGAL... I'll explain below :

On the above example with companies (A), (B) and (C), as soon as a customer applies for a service with any business, that business/company is realistically considered one of the customer's creditors. This means that the customer called up the company, asked for a service/plan/contract and company (A) processes a CREDIT CHECK through company (C). Depending on the credit check, it will come back as either declined or approved.
As soon as that happens; On the customer's credit file, it will state 'On this date, company (A) processed a credit check.'
If the credit check is approved, the customer gets his service/product, and company (A) is considered one that customer's creditors.

I'm explaining all of this for good reason, as you can now understand the basics of what a creditor is and what a creditor has the right to do.
A creditor of course, does have the right to place a default.

Now, Gametag or gametag.com is NOT a creditor:
- You did not legitmately APPLY for a service through this business.
- Gametag did not perform a credit check on your credit file, (nor do they have the right to)
- Gametag is not even located in the same country as you.

The simple fact that the business is NOT in the same country as you, they CANNOT place a default on your credit file in the US, or any other country for that matter. A creditor or a business can only TRY to place a default in the country that the business is located in. So if Gametag is located in the Phillipines, they realistically can not affect your credit rating in the US or any other country, they can only place a default with a credit reporting agency in the Phillipines

Now that you know a bit about Creditor's, I'm going to explain what Kross can do.

As I explained above with companies A, B and C, I'll now relate it to Kross and Gametag.

- Gametag offers the sale of WoW online accounts.
- Consumer goes to www.gametag.com and buys 1 WoW.
- Gametag takes the payment.
- Gametag does not give the consumer the account/account details.
- Consumer processes a chargeback.
- Gametag notifies consumer of collections process.
- Gametag goes to Kross and asks them to collect the debt :

This is illegal and fraud.

Once Gametag goes to Kross, they will give them a file which states the consumer's contact details, the amount and Kross will take a percentage of the debt.
Kross is the Debt Collections Agency.
They are NOT your Creditor.
Kross can only call you up, they can only bother you, and they can only send you letters for payment.
Kross CAN NOT place a default under your credit file.
This is a very big misunderstanding a lot of people have, and this why they fear debt collectors more than the actual creditor, when in fact, it is the creditor who can only process a default.

Now if www.gametag.com / Gametag is not your creditor, and if Kross Collections Agency is not your creditor, then who is?

If none of them are your creditor's, how can they affect your credit rating?

They can not for the simple reasons :

- Gametag is not located in the same country as you and can only affect your credit rating in the country the company is located in.
- Gametag is not one of your creditor's.
- Kross is not one of your creditor's.

Everything I've stated here is how the collections procedures and laws work in Australia, so I don't know what the EXACT processes are in the US, though I'm sure they should be similair and at least I've educated you all a bit more and you now know where you stand.

I hope I've helped :)

Reply back for any additional comments and let me know what has happened with www.gametag.com / Gametag.
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