• Report: #192238

Complaint Review: Liberty League International

  • Submitted: Thu, May 18, 2006
  • Updated: Mon, October 16, 2006

  • Reported By:san francisco California
Liberty League International
Phoenix, Arizona U.S.A.

Liberty League International - Priscella Ortiz - Zinida Lorenzo ripoff, Convinced me after a divorce that LLI would change my life ripoff Phoenix Arizona

*Consumer Suggestion: Several top LLI income earners have left the company for something new.

*UPDATE Employee: Problems Lie with Individuals, Not LLI

*Consumer Suggestion: Class Action Suite

*Author of original report: Attorney General

*Consumer Comment: I'm familiar with the process

*Consumer Suggestion: Michael Hamburger really said that to you via e-mails?

*Consumer Comment: This is what he said

*Consumer Suggestion: Hello David

*Consumer Comment: In all fairness

*Consumer Comment: This is funny.

*Consumer Comment: This is funny.

*Consumer Comment: This is funny.

*Consumer Comment: This is funny.

*Consumer Comment: Look on the bright side

*Consumer Suggestion: Daniel please learn how to read properly.

*Consumer Suggestion: To Cynthia

*Consumer Suggestion: To Daniel and Cynthia

*Consumer Comment: to anoymous

*Consumer Comment: Bottom dwellers and people with no money huh??

*Consumer Suggestion: LLI was fined $115,000 by the Arizona Attorney General

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I joined LLI during a divorce. I was forced to sell my home and go back to work. Prescilla Ortiz told me that they guarantee the success. I had to send them $20,990.00 to position my self after I sent the money. She said now it's 90 day waiting period. After the 90 days, you have to have 3 sales in front of you.

After I ran out of money Prescilla Stopped calling.

Max
san francisco, California
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/18/2006 07:55 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Liberty-League-International/Phoenix-Arizona/Liberty-League-International-Priscella-Ortiz-Zinida-Lorenzo-ripoff-Convinced-me-after-192238. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Suggestion

Several top LLI income earners have left the company for something new.

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

Though I'd share with you folk what I have gathered from researching and talking to former LLI associates personally. I was considering getting involved with the company recently untill I began to dig deep and really do some due dilligence. You see, the last time I jumped right into an "opportunity" without research costed me thousands of dollars for my mistake. I have also personally spoken to several former LLI associates on the phone who have left after more than two years with the company.

Alan Nettles, Jay Kubassek, Lehman Hailey have now left Liberty League and jumped boat for a new business. Alan Nettles held the all time high income record earned in a single month in LLI. He was in LLI for several years. Jay Kubassek also was in LLI for several years and was a top income earner himself. In fact, he was one of the very top sales producers in the entire company. Lehman Hailey appears on both Jay and Alan's new non Libety League websites as a testimonial. I Googled Lehman Hailey and I found that he was in LLI as recently as July 2006 before leaving LLI also. No, these folks are not retiring either. They would not have high ranking Google ads promoting their new non LLI websites and new opportunity if that was the case. So why the heck are top income earners like these leaving LLI?

You can see their new non LLI Google ads and websites at the very top when you Google "Liberty League" or "Liberty League International". The ads will say "Considering LL? Read This. Find out why most top income left and where they went." LL stands for Liberty League. I guess Liberty League will come after you if you use their name in your Google ads, since all those Google ads you see when you type "Liberty League" or "Liberty League International" all say "LL" "League" or just "Liberty". Who will be the next LLI top income earner(s) to jump boat and leave the company for something new? There's no way I am joining this company until I at least find out what exactly has driven these top income earners to leave entirely for someting new. I'm sick and tired of the smoke & mirrors, and all the hype out here. There's just too much garbage out there today. You have to dig and sort through it all.
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#2 UPDATE Employee

Problems Lie with Individuals, Not LLI

AUTHOR: Terry - (U.S.A.)

Hi all,
There are more than a few problems listed in the above posts, but I am going to put in "my two cents" for what it's worth.

First, the problems you stated above are faults of individuals, not of the company as a whole. No one can guarantee success in any business. You should have been told that right from the start. The people enrolling you have no idea what kind of person you are, what kind of knowledge you have with respect to marketing, and what kind of work ethic you have (I'm not saying yours is good or bad.) Therefore, they can have no idea how you will fare in this business. They also probably didn't follow the LLI compliance guide when they were advertising. That was the main problem with the lawsuit. LLI has clear rules on what you can and can't say to prospects both in advertising and when you initially talk to them. The compliance guide is designed specifically to remove the hype that most people use to "sell" this business.

Second, the training and mentoring coming from most advisors with LLI is minimal at best. How do I know this? Because I have people that I have no financial connection with calling me every day asking where and how I'm marketing, and how my new associates are getting qualified so quickly. I have also had people leave their advisor, and join my team so they can get a little help with the business. Most advisors are missing the point when it comes to how to really make a lot of money with LLI. It comes through proper training and mentoring of one's new associates. When they are successful, the compensation plan will make you as an advisor successful. It's as simple as that.

Third, some of the fault lies with who the business attracts. Network Marketing attracts people with little or no business experience at all. People are attracted to the hype of what this business could possibly become for them, rather than what it will likely be for the 1st year or so. To be successful, you have to be 100% committed to learning exactly how to be successful with this, and you have to take the initiative to do it on your own and not expect someone to hand it to you. This business is about all about sales and marketing. So to be successful, you have to be willing to learn all there is to know about both. If you cannot find out how to attract leads with your advertising, you won't succeed. Once you've attracted those potential new associates, if you don't know how to talk to them, you won't succeed.

I also think some of the fault lies with people who join the above stated advisors. When I researched LLI, I talked to no less than 6 summitt advisors, who all thought I was going to join with them. I ended up joining through the 5th one I talked to because he had a different angle. He didn't put people on the "business information calls" that are thinly disguised hype, allowing people to get just enough info to get them excited. He didn't pressure me at all. He just gave me all the information about the business right up front, let me do my research, and come up with a decision on my own. I'm not sure how much research you did when you joined, but I took 2 full weeks looking into this. The business model made sense to me, so I took the plunge.

The company as a whole is beginning to experinece a shift as a result of that lawsuit, and a growing number of people having success by training, mentoring, and coaching their new associates properly. It is far easier to have your associates to do your marketing for you while you are training them than it is to burn through 25 new associates looking for that one that will be successful on their own. If all advisors conducted themselves like our team does, there would be no valid complaints about this company, or its advisors. I'm sure you would still have the occasional winer who is looking for a hand out, but the company and business as a whole would be better off.

Those are my thoughts for what they're worth!!
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

Class Action Suite

AUTHOR: Anonymus - (U.S.A.)

Class acton suite? Can you elaborate?
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#4 Author of original report

Attorney General

AUTHOR: Max - (U.S.A.)

The person who advised me of the attorney general,

Thank you so much I have just submitted all of my documents and joined the class action suite...

Max
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#5 Consumer Comment

I'm familiar with the process

AUTHOR: Daniel - (U.S.A.)

Actually I was curious to see if people actually made money with LLI. It seems as though only the top brass make the cash and everyone else either loses their shirt, or makes enough to be comparable to an ordinary job. The former seems to be the case.

No I did not save the emails.

I went back to grad school and got a MS in accounting. Now I work as a financial analyst for a company. I don't make millions of dollars, but I am happy with what I do.

I do however prospect for extra income on the side. I've been on here to check out other companies as well.

I've found that most, if not all companies that promise the world are on this site with less than stellar reviews. But don't feel bad anonymous, I lost a ton of credibility just by prospecting LLI.

I don't know how else to explain but, if you invest your money into a pyramid scheme, I wouldn't tell your friends and family about it unless you are a sucess, which for 98% of people is unlikely.

I know, I want to be rich too. Who doesn't?
But until you can harness a good product and believe in it. Combined with a business accumen to make it happen. It won't. Some of us may have one or the other, but having both is rare.

But keep plugging away anonymous. Success never came without failure!

Good luck to you!!
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#6 Consumer Suggestion

Michael Hamburger really said that to you via e-mails?

AUTHOR: Anonymus - (U.S.A.)

Those remarks you say Michael made towards you are completely uncalled for and unprofessional. I don't believe that would be within LLI company compliance. Do you still have those e-mails saved? I'm not planning on doing anything with them, just curious is all. I know that Michael joined LLI in March of 2003 so he was already enrolled for some time when you answered his ad.

To further clarify with everyone, I was enrolled through a local man who he himself was not yet qualified at the Beyond Freedom level yet. His qualified Summit Advisor was Michael Hamburger.

So when I joined under this local man, I was one of his required training sales that he had to pass up to Michael in order to qualify himself. So Michael never enrolled me directly. But he became my Beyond Freedom, Liberty, and Summit advisor because I was a qualifying training sale to him. So my Beyond Freedom purchase was directly with Michael, and he kept $1,000 of my $1,495 payment as profit. He sent the rest to LLI, LLI shipped me Beyond Freedom, and my enroller got credit for one training sale.

So LLI the company, only comes in possesion of part of the money. The advisor keps the rest. They receive the payment first before the company. The take out their profit and send the rest to LLI. It's the same for all 3 products, Freedom, Libery, and Summit. This makes me wonder how the Arizona Attorney general will determine restitution payments to people and what it will entail, ect.
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#7 Consumer Comment

This is what he said

AUTHOR: Daniel - (U.S.A.)

I was in a crap job just out of college....I was not happy.

This was around January of 2004.

Anyway, I responded to an ad online regarding extra income and Michael H. contacted me. Well I listened to the conference call and found out how much it was going to cost initially.

I was skeptical of it and to top it off I wasn't in a position to drop that kind of money just to get the bf package....anyway, part of me had that dreamer outlook of "what if I make it" and then I had the realistic side of me saying..."Bad idea"

I get emails from him in the days and weeks to come and he kind of mocks me for working at a job.

He made comments like, "You better get back to work because someone else owns your time." "You are a loser with a sorry life, you only wish you could live like me." Basically he harrasssed me because he had money and I didn't.

So we exchanged blows back and forth and the whole time it was the theme of he is rich and I am poor. Now I am just out of college mind you and this is what I am getting from him.

So I just get on here these days to see how the company is doing. That guy Michael is a real piece of work!!
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#8 Consumer Suggestion

Hello David

AUTHOR: Anonymus - (U.S.A.)

David,

I never said I responded to a newspaper ad myself anywhere. That's purely your speculation. No, I did not answer the same ad. I found Liberty League through another method, and it was not by an ad in the classified section of the paper. It was through a local guy who lived just a short drive away from me.

Daniel, we seem to have something in common, only you where wiser than me not to join. Can you share the reason why you decided against taking part in the LLI business?

If you are interested in the company wide income earing statistics for 2005, go to their webpage at www.libertyleague.com and at the very bottom click on the "Income Testimonial" link. The numbers speak for themselves. Obviously there is a lack of proper training being given. LLI had to add this "Income Disclaimer" to the bottom of their website homepage as a result of the above settlement. It was not there before that.

I personally can't say Michael was ever rude to me. He just did not teach exactly what he was doing to generate his leads and advertise, or how to maximize your advertising dollar and not just blindly throw out money on ads that don't pull leads. He just had me blindly spend money on ads at random. You will run out of money real quick doing that, and buying expensive leads at $360 plus a batch. For example, he had high ranking google ads of which he did not teach anyone on the team how to do. Other people have said that he's the brother in law of one of the companies co-founders, Brent Payne.

Daniel, how did Michael insult you and why?

Finally, it was never my intention to offend anyone here in any way by saying "bottom dwellers". If anyone took offense to that, I appolagize to you. I'm not here to insult anyone in any way, and it was not my intention at all.
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#9 Consumer Comment

In all fairness

AUTHOR: Daniel - (U.S.A.)

I dealt with the guy that recruited you....he was very rude and insulting...very, very insulting!!

Needless to say I didn't join...but I do like to see what is going on with the company!

Apparently mine was not an isolated incident.
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#10 Consumer Comment

This is funny.

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

He did give you some good advice.

The thing that is funny here though is he states "I was involved in LLI also under Michael Hamburger."

So you answered the same ad hoping to get rich?

You really should choose your words more wisely.
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#11 Consumer Comment

This is funny.

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

He did give you some good advice.

The thing that is funny here though is he states "I was involved in LLI also under Michael Hamburger."

So you answered the same ad hoping to get rich?

You really should choose your words more wisely.
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#12 Consumer Comment

This is funny.

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

He did give you some good advice.

The thing that is funny here though is he states "I was involved in LLI also under Michael Hamburger."

So you answered the same ad hoping to get rich?

You really should choose your words more wisely.
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#13 Consumer Comment

This is funny.

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

He did give you some good advice.

The thing that is funny here though is he states "I was involved in LLI also under Michael Hamburger."

So you answered the same ad hoping to get rich?

You really should choose your words more wisely.
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#14 Consumer Comment

Look on the bright side

AUTHOR: Daniel - (U.S.A.)

Atleast you got some people to repsond to you!!
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#15 Consumer Suggestion

Daniel please learn how to read properly.

AUTHOR: Anonymus - (U.S.A.)

Daniel, you too are incorrect.

You misread the word "LYING" in my sentence for the word "LIVING".

My sentence said "I was seriously considering selling my beloved Corvette just to purchase the 3-day "Liberty" ticket, and was considering LYING to my mother..."

So that's why you THOUGHT I moved back in to live with my mother hu? That's funny.

The words "LYING" and "LIVING" have completely different meanings. You mistaked one for the other.

Daniel please learn how to read properly before you make such incorrect comments yourself.
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#16 Consumer Suggestion

To Cynthia

AUTHOR: Anonymus - (U.S.A.)

I never said "bottom feeders" as you stated.

I said "bottom dwellers". Look at my first post and you'll see it yourself.

Your information is incorrect.
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#17 Consumer Suggestion

To Daniel and Cynthia

AUTHOR: Anonymus - (U.S.A.)

Daniel,

Nothing wrong with looking the paper when finding a "job". It's just not what you want when you are looking to recruit people into a home business that will require a substantial ammount of money (Like $25K) to take part in, and your ad is under the "Business Opportunity" or "Work From Home" section.

I never said I lived with my mom nor did I ever say I moved back in with her. Neither of those applies to me. Read my comments again Daniel. What are you reading? You made that up. It's not in my comments above and everyone can see that.

I clearly stated that I considered having my mother take out a second mortgage on her house in order for me to use that money to help buy a Liberty and Summit ticket. I decided not to when I realized that if no business opportunity existed, I sure would not be spending $8k and $12k on 3 and 5 day self help seminars and international airfare tickets to get there on top of that.

I can't help but wonder why you are on this site yourself. Why are you here? Honestly, why are you here on this site? What are you looking for? Did you get ripped off by someone?

Cynthia,

You are 100% correct, not "everyone" who responds to newspaper ads are broke. But I never said "Everyone". I said "usually". And I also said that "all" the people who RESPONDED to my ads where. Just look at my first post again. I know this because I conducted an interview with them on the phone. One of the questions that is asked is what kind of money they are used to making, and what they do for a living. Most where unemployed. The ones who where not did not have much money. Some refused to attend the call because it was not a toll free 800 number and could not afford it. Bottom line, a business takes money to make money. There is probably not a legal business that will make you wealthy for free.

You prove my point. You found your current "job". That's great. I congradulate you. I would say over 90% of the people who did respond to my ads where looking for jobs like you, even though my ad was in the "Business Opportunity" or the "Work From Home" section and few papers actually have. The rest where looking to make money with a home business for free. That rediculous.

But besides that it's clear neither of you folks have ever been involved or taken part in LLI. For that you should be glad. I am presenting Max, the person who originally made this complaint with information that can be useful to him. That is the ultimate reason this website even exists.
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#18 Consumer Comment

to anoymous

AUTHOR: Cynthia - (U.S.A.)

not everyone who responds to newspaper ads are as you so eloquently put it "bottom feeders" or broke. As a matter of fact I found my present job through the newspaper. Think about what your saying before you print it.
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#19 Consumer Comment

Bottom dwellers and people with no money huh??

AUTHOR: Daniel - (U.S.A.)

Hey Man,

There was a time before I had a job that I went looking for one. I remember looking for jobs on the internet, job boards, word of mouth and the newspaper.

Don't insult people looking for work because they had more sense than you not to get ripped off by such a scam.

Any man that considers moving back in with mom has got to be the bottom feeder!
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#20 Consumer Suggestion

LLI was fined $115,000 by the Arizona Attorney General

AUTHOR: Anonymus - (U.S.A.)

I don't know if you are aware, but the same month you posted this complaint LLI was fined $115,000 by the Arizon Attorney General. Someone who's summit advisor was the person you hear on the training calls named "Wendy Stevens" lost about $28,000 doing the same thing you did. They filed with the Attorney General to get their money back. This lady was getting started with LLI to make money in order to help a friend who was about to lose her house to forclosure. I think that's what caused the lawsuit against them in May of 2006.

Click on the link below.

http://www.azag.gov/press_releases/may/2006/LibertyLeagueSettlement.pdf

You might want give the Attorney General a call yourself and ask them about the victim restitution payments mentioned there. The number is listed there in the link. They have said that they are supposed to determine payment restution at a later date. I don't know if that has already been done or not. So just call them, ask them, and tell them your story, ect.

I was involved in LLI also under Michael Hamburger. When I was spending thousands placing a ton of classified ads out there exacly as they describe on the traning calls and buying leads, I was getting about 10 lead call my number a week, this guy could not tell me what to do. He just kept telling me to stick with it, to have faith and belive, and buy leads from lead vendors. I think I spend well over $2,000 on newspaper ads and leads in 3 months. I was getting maybe 10 leads a week from 17 different papers running at the same time.

I did not go past the Beyond Freedom level. I was seriosly considering selling my beloved Corvette just to purchase the 3-day "Liberty" ticket, and was considering lying to my mother to get her to take out a second mortage on her house and give me the money. I had absolutely no credit, no house, or any other means of obtaining that kind of money short of that. With that second mortage line of credit I was going to buy "Summmit" and pay for airfare to and from the seminars. The total would have been about $25,000 and still their traning would have gotten me no where. Thank god I decided not to. That was stupid of me to even consider doing something like that.

What finally woke me up was this. I asked myself this question: "Would you buy these products as a consumer if there was no income of business opportunity attached to them?" The answer was absolutely not.

Also, I looked at all these things I was thinking of doing (like lying to my mom to get her to take out a second mortage, and sell my beloved Corvette that I never want to sell) just to come up with the $25,000 or so to step up to all 3 levels; Beyond Freedom, Liberty, and Summit and buy airfare to get there.

The few people who acutally responded to my classified ads where all broke and looking for jobs. There was no way these people would be willing to do what I was willing to do. They could not even commit to gettin on the presentation call as soon as they found out it was long distance. People who are responding to ads in the paper are usually always broke, bottom dwellers who have no drive or money anyway. Plus, virtually every newspaper I advertised in already had numerous LLI ads in the same section. When everyone is give the same newspaper links and told what circulation to get on the training calls, all those same newspapers get oversaturated with a bunch of LLI ads. This makes your ad that much more ineffective when there's 4 or five other LLI ads just like yours already there in the same section.

The truth is that leaders who are making money are not doing only what they teach on the calls like they say they do. Some of the income testimonials people would give were false, and the court settlement had implemented that they refrain from making such testimonials.
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