• Report: #105216

Complaint Review: Lithia Of Burlingame - Daimler Chrysler

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  • Submitted: Tue, August 24, 2004
  • Updated: Wed, November 29, 2006

  • Reported By:Burlingame California
Lithia Of Burlingame - Daimler Chrysler
1025 Rollins Road Burlingame, California U.S.A.

Lithia Of Burlingame - Daimler Chrysler Ripoff Breach of Warranty Contract Burlingame California

*Consumer Suggestion: Oliver isnt real, an SRT is NOT a real neon

*Consumer Comment: One more thing

*Consumer Comment: That is wrong Tarturus

*Consumer Comment: Another SRT-4 Owner

*Author of original report: Just admit you are mistaken Robert and get back to the original subject.

*Consumer Comment: Your dealership guys think that you are talking about an actual Neon. Not the SRT-4.

*Consumer Comment: Get a better source of information dealerships know next to nothing about SRT-4's and you know NOTHING at all

*Consumer Comment: Robert please answer to this, with verifiable facts

*Consumer Suggestion: TSK TSK TSK ..Aside from the cocaine deal that the government framed him with, he is the greatest thing that ever happened to the automotive world.

*Consumer Comment: Robert, Please get back on the subject

*Consumer Comment: Where's Mr. "Oliver" - EMPLOYEE

*Consumer Suggestion: tisk tisk tisk liar

*Consumer Comment: Responce to Robert **MIS-INFORMATION**

*Consumer Comment: Responce to Robert **MIS-INFORMATION**

*Consumer Comment: Responce to Robert **MIS-INFORMATION**

*Consumer Comment: Hey Robert.

*Author of original report: You're false statements are only causing confusion Robert

*Consumer Suggestion: Robert, please learn, THEN post.

*Consumer Suggestion: Pete, tsk, tsk, tsk

*Consumer Suggestion: robert, you are just plain WRONG on your information..

*Consumer Comment: I hope this Robert guy is just trying to mess with everybody!

*Author of original report: You're wrong Robert. Research a little deeper before spewing nonsense

*Consumer Comment: Robert doesn't get it... Neither the stage 1 kit or the blow off plate have anything to do with the factory wastegate.

*Consumer Comment: PSI Rebuttal.

*Consumer Comment: PSI Rebuttal.

*Consumer Comment: PSI Rebuttal.

*Consumer Suggestion: The factory sets the boost at 4 psi

*Consumer Comment: From factory at 15 PSI

*Consumer Suggestion: Robert.... where is your info coming from

*Consumer Comment: Correction To Robert's Post

*Consumer Comment: Do more research Robert, Your statements are not only false, but accusatory in nature

*Consumer Comment: Here we go again, The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form

*Consumer Comment: Here we go again, The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form

*Consumer Comment: Here we go again, The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form

*Consumer Comment: Here we go again, The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form

*Consumer Comment: Correction of Robert

*Consumer Comment: we will come out there, protest your POS dealership..

*Consumer Comment: IF YOU DONT BEAT THE CAR THEN WHATS THE NEED FOR MORE HORSEPOWER ?

*Consumer Comment: Oliver, Please Clearify a few things.

*Consumer Comment: what a moron, Just admit your dealership screwed up horribly, Troy is 100% right in this situation

*Consumer Comment: I have never seen anyone at any level of a dealership act as you are acting.

*Consumer Comment: Oliver the phoney!

*Author of original report: Very Unprofessional Oliver

*Consumer Comment: Conditional Warranty coverage? More power?

*Consumer Suggestion: Nice try Oliver... Maybe he'll learn not to fool with stuff

*Consumer Suggestion: Had the same bolt problem here in Germany

*Consumer Suggestion: Had the same bolt problem here in Germany

*Consumer Suggestion: Had the same bolt problem here in Germany

*UPDATE Employee: DONT GO TO DEALER FOR SERVICE IF IT AINT FOR FREE

*UPDATE Employee: BROKEN NEON

*Consumer Comment: HOW DARE YOU!!! You Lithia guys are idiots

*Consumer Comment: I have been following this

*Author of original report: What am I lying about?

*Consumer Suggestion: Warranty

*UPDATE Employee: Liar

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I bought my Dodge SRT-4 in may of 2003, with this being my first new car purchase. What sold me on the car was the mention of the Mopar aftermarket parts that were "designed and manufactured by Daimler Chrysler specifically for this car."

Everything was fine for the most part until around the end of July of 2004. I pulled out of a parking lot and noticed a funny feeling in my clutch pedal and a load chattering noise that increased in intensity with the engines' rpm's. I took it in the next morning before work for service and was given a diagnostic work order for around $130. I mentioned that the car is under warranty and asked why I was being billed and I was assured that once they pull up my warranty info and if it's covered I wouldn't be charged.

A few hours later I received a call from Kevin in the service department and this is how it went:

Dealership: "Sir, we noticed a couple strange noises coming from your car. The loud knocking we beleive may be your balance shaft. It also appears that you have installed a blow off valve on the turbo and we noticed a noise from there too."

Me: "Yeah, that hissing noise is from the blow off valve, it's supposed to do that."

Dealership: "We need to pull your oil pan to further inspect and see if the noises your car is making is indeed coming from the balance shft. That brings the total up to $6xx."

Me: "Well the car is under warranty, so why are you saying it's going to be $6xx?"

Dealership: "Sir, your warranty is now void because of modifictaions to the vehicle"

Me: "What? Why is that?"

Dealership: "Sir, your warranty is now void because of modifictions to the vehicle"

Me: "How did my blow off valve cause my car to break?"

Dealership: "Sir, your warranty is now void because of modifictaions to the vehicle. What other modifications have you done?"

Me: "Well, I also have the Mopar Stage-1 installed and a cold air intake. Umm, unless my mods caused the engine troubles, it should still be under warranty."

Dealership: "Sir, do you want your car fixed or what?"

Me: "Of course I do, but there's the issue of you denying my work under warranty. If something I did to the car causes it to break, I'll go ahead and pay for it. Do you think the modifications had anything to do with it?"

Dealership: "I'll have the service manager call you back."

So before they're even sure of the problem, my power train warranty is now supposedly instantly voided by them. I did my homework before I changed anthing on my car and according to federal law (Magnusen Moss Act), aftermarket parts cannot void a warranty unless the parts are a direct cause of the problem. So the service manager calls me back a couple hours later and tells me that the district rep must inspect my car before they can get back to me. The next day I call in to find out that supposedly my car was inspected and my entire powertrain warranty is now void. I was also told that if I have any questions, take it up with Chrysler.

So then it gets even better. They call a day or so later to tell me that after all they've done so far (at my expense) they still haven't pinpointed the problem and they want to pull my transmission adding another $5xx to the equation. It turns out that my flywheel bolts were loose and in turn backed out and ruined my clutch, bringing the total to over $1800. This defect has absolutely nothing to do with my Mopar parts on the car was clearly a manufacturing defect.

So before the dealership even knew what the problem was my I was told that my warranty was void for the mere presence of aftermarket parts, until I mentioned the Mag-Moss Act. Then the story changed to, "The added power (25 horsepower) must have caused my balance shaft to break. Then when they found that my flywheel bolts came loose by themselves, they blamed Chrysler, not themselves for voiding my warranty. Kinda funny considering they told me my warranty was void before they even contacted Chrysler.

So when I called Chrysler's customer service (Yeah, right...) I was told to take it up with the dealership. When I asked who the district rep was and their contact info, I was told that they're not authorized to release that information to me. Not even a mailing adress. The best they could do was put a request in for them to contact me. Big surprise, I never heard back. So after countless phone calls, Chrysler will only tell me to take it up with the dealer, not them. When I went to Lithia, they turned me right back around and said that I'm barking up the wrong tree, that I need to contact Chrysler. So after going back and forth on the phone, I decided to try the e-mail approach. I tried asking why my aftermarket parts automatically voided my warranty when in fact the warranty contract and federal law state the opposite. I was replied to with the excuse that they couldn't answer me, that I need to talk to the dealership. All further attempts to write Chrysler have gone ignored since then.

After filing with my local BBB, Lithia responded with yet another one of their excuses that my Mopar parts "Aren't legal for sale on cars registered for highway use and are for off-road use only." Even though this is totally irrelevant to my flywheel bolts being loose, this is yet another attempt on their part to get out of the warranty work. So if my window tint was too dark or I removed my front license plate, would this too void my warranty?

If my aftermarket parts cause a problem, I'll more than willingly pay for the repairs, but this was the most blatant attempt to escape warranty work that I've ever heard of. As soon as one excuse was proven wrong, they threw another on the table. So after exhausting every avenue possible to get an answer from them about why they denied my warranty for the mere presence of aftermarket parts, even though it contradicts the warranty contract, I had to seek legal help. This is an obvious, blatant, outright breach of contract.

Troy
Burlingame, California
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 08/24/2004 03:28 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Lithia-Of-Burlingame-Daimler-Chrysler/Burlingame-California-94010/Lithia-Of-Burlingame-Daimler-Chrysler-Ripoff-Breach-of-Warranty-Contract-Burlingame-Cali-105216. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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#1 Consumer Suggestion

Oliver isnt real, an SRT is NOT a real neon

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

Oliver? Here's some advice son;

1. Straighten your tie
2. Pull up your pants
3. Tuck in your shirt
4. Put a belt on
5. For the love of God, wipe the sheep wool off your lips.

PS EVERYONE, for anyone working in the Chrysler service departments, AN SRT IS NOT A NEON. What a bunch of morons! and NO, the blow off DOES NOT VOID THE WARRANTY! Look at the recalls on those stupid bolts too! Its happening often!

Steve (retired from Chrysler Dodge Jeep dealership as Finance Mgr selling extended service plans and trained to pork the consumer with a license to steal. I gave mine in, just cant tolerate doing that anymore. Those certified technicians are bulls_it too. I should know)
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#2 Consumer Comment

One more thing

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

The only thing M-M really does is make companies that offer warranties, put them in writing. It does not require a warranty be given on anything.

ALL written warranties have a disclaimer about ABUSE. Abuse will void the warranty instantly, and racing is abuse. Power adders are installed for racing only. Nullifying a warranty is very easy to do, and Judges will agree every time.

Blowing up an engine is abuse. Destroying a clutch is abuse. Crashing is abuse. Dropping a television is abuse. Abuse is not covered by any warranty.
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#3 Consumer Comment

That is wrong Tarturus

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

"It's completely illegal to deny warranty work based on aftermarket parts, per the Magnussen-Moss Act."

Wrong. The Act simply requires the dealership to show how the aftermarket parts caused the damage. This is not difficult to do. The minute you start changing the powertrain from it's original configuration, you are going to run into problems with your warranty.

Judges know full well that people who install power-adders to their cars are not doing it to get to Church faster. All the dealership has to show is the actual damage, and the case is closed. A crankshaft that breaks at high rpm's is very ugly. A valve train that comes apart likewise is nasty also. Clutches do not just come apart at normal driving. High rpm's cause damage, and Judges know this.
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#4 Consumer Comment

Another SRT-4 Owner

AUTHOR: Tarturus - (U.S.A.)

It's completely illegal to deny warrnaty work based on aftermarket parts, per the Magnussen-Moss Act. In the short term, contact DC - and challenge the dealers/DC denial of the warranty claim. If you need the car, pay for the repairs under protest and then SUE in small claims.

The stage 1 kit, blow off valve, and an air intake do not impact the bolts on the clutch.
If the car sucked in water via an aftermarket intake, clearly that would be a viable denial of warranty work.. Not a clutch.. I believe that clutch is rated for over 280hp.

I own an 04 SRT-4.
I have installed the Mopar (manufactured by Daimler/Chrysler) stage 2 kit.
I have never had any issues with my car in terms of warranty work, but I read reports on dealerships that deal with this very differently.

The problems I have had:
The stage 2 kit (with the "toys" option) uses a part of the ECU designed for an automatic transmission. This on a manual car. Using this part of the ECU sets emissions codes for auto tranny failure. As such, I fail emissions - based on automatic transmission codes - in the state of Texas. No actual emissions problems with the car and because state tests are automated, no way to pass inspection.

DC says "off road use only" - and I completely agree, if my car were to actually put out more emissions or fail a sniffer, but to sell a kit knowing that it throws codes should be disclosed...
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#5 Author of original report

Just admit you are mistaken Robert and get back to the original subject.

AUTHOR: Troy - (U.S.A.)


I'm spending more time correcting Robert's assumptions and misinformation than sticking to the topic at hand.

"He should have taken off all the aftermarket stuff(BOV/Wastegate/etc)"

For the millionth time Robert, I have never touched the wastegate, it's the same stock unit that came with the car. Why do you keep insisting that it's not? What are you basing this off of? You need to quit ammending my experience with your imagination as it's only diverted attention from the original subject. I'm still trying to figure out if you're doing this intentionally or if you really do believe what you're saying.

" He cranked up the boost at least by a factor of 3 and more than likely to 4 times the allowable amount the engine could take"

I'll quote you on this one again. You need to clarify where your info came from. I've never "cranked up the boost", unless you consider the 2 psi increase from Stage-1 "cranking". You also said that I boosted over the allowable limit the engine could take. My engine is fine. You're implying that I ran too much boost and broke my motor. How in the world did you arrive at that conclusion? That's never been an issue to begin with as my motor runs beautifully.

This whole thread comes down to this-and I'll try and keep it as simple as possible:

Lithia of Burlingame sells me an SRT-4 touting the genuine Mopar upgrades that will retain the factory warranty if used.

I install the Mopar Blow off valve and Stage-1 kit

I bring the car in for service about 15 months later

Lithia announces that my warranty is now void for using the very same parts that they they said I would be able to use and still keep the car under warranty. They are still telling customers this.

This is like an officer directing you through an intersection because of a traffic wreck, then ticketing you for going through the red light even though he told you to.

I do want to make a couple things clear though. I did not come here to take Lithia to the poorhouse. All I want is for them to fairly correct this mess that they've created and if it involves acting as a laison between DCX and myself then they should step up and quit acting like it's not their problem. Good customer service should not end the second the papers are signed and the car is driven off the lot.
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#6 Consumer Comment

Your dealership guys think that you are talking about an actual Neon. Not the SRT-4.

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

Robertthe Brilliant!

Why are you so damn stubborn? Didn't you read anyone's rebuttals? Read the one from Mike in Canada. He understands how the car works. Your dealership guys think that you are talking about an actual Neon. Not the SRT-4. Don't you understand that this car is not a NEON? It is a performance car BASED on the Neon. Maybe a normal Neon only has 4 PSI of boost, but not the SRT-4. Read the information you've been given about the car. Or, like I said before, DRIVE one. I hope the people out there in Florida have been reading this crap, and realize who NOT to take their cars to. Geez, you'd think that you would at least go out and drive one before you start talking about things you don't understand. My advice to you is to move on from this discussion, so that Troy can get back to doing what he came here for: To put Lithia in its place...the POOR HOUSE!

And as far as Troy taking the stuff off the car before going into the dealership, he was being HONEST. He has been honest through this entire situation from the start, in HOPES that they would be too. I guess we've all learned the more you try to do the right thing, the more people (like the ones at Lithia) will screw you over. I'm proud of Troy for the way he's handled this. He hasn't lied (LIKE LITHIA HAS), and to be honest with you, he has been more polite to Lithia than I would've been. I hope the creeps over at Lithia see how a respectable person is SUPPOSED to behave. Probably not, but hopefully. More than that, I hope Troy can see that he's done the right thing by being honest, even though it hasn't turned out (YET) the way we think it should.

If anyone out there believes that Troy did the right thing, and that Lithia is wrong, please let Lithia know about it. Their email address is up at the top of this posting. I believe that a strong showing of support for the little guy, is what usually breaks the big guy down. Plus, if nothing else, it will let them know not to screw with their customers. I would also like to thank everyone who has shown their support to Troy in this situation. You guys over at the Forum have been especially great!
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#7 Consumer Comment

Get a better source of information dealerships know next to nothing about SRT-4's and you know NOTHING at all

AUTHOR: Bobby - (U.S.A.)

Other than the fact that you are obviously ignorant, you need to get a better source of info. The dealerships know next to nothing about SRT-4's and you know NOTHING at all. So, as you can see, it is dangerous mix. How does the saying go...."blind leading the blind". If you are really interested in teaching yourself a little bit about turbochargers or SRT-4's you should really think about doing a little more "research" and not listening to any employees of any Dodge stealership... I mean dealership. Other people's responses already give you a good starting point for your research so buckle down and start studying!
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#8 Consumer Comment

Robert please answer to this, with verifiable facts

AUTHOR: William - (U.S.A.)

Please explain these quotes. Explain how two nationally respected magazines have both gotten exactly the same wrong answer to this question.

While ripoffreports.com will not allow links, these quotes are easily verified (unlike your assertations) by going to those magazines websites and searching for SRT-4

"And thanks to a small turbine gallery, maximum boost between 11 and 14 psi, depending on conditions comes up quickly."
(Car and Driver, Dec 02)

"Turbo boost is 11-14 psi, depending on what the engine-control monitor needs to achieve max power from 3200 to 4200 rpm."
(Motor Trend, Jan 03)

And lastly, this is a direct cut and paste from the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL. Now maybe Dodge themselves doesn't know how much boost the car they made produces. NOT modified, but in a stock condition, note the use of the words NORMAL OPERATION. I'm sure they wouldn't put numbers from a modified car in the maintainence book.


"During normal operation the SRT - 4 turbocharger
will emit a very high frequency whistle at full boost 68.9 - 103.4 kPa (10 - 15 psi) during WOT acceleration."

(PL/SRT-4 Service manual, Page 11-3)

Either produce FACTUAL information that refutes this or leave this conversation. Oh, and please give the name of the dealership that is feeding you this misinformation. I would love to tell the thousands of SRT owners watching this unfold to stay away from a dealership that makes up information instead of reading the manual.


And lastly, to the admins here at ripoffreport.com, please do not let this man post again. He has proven repeatedly that he has no factual information to post. He is either sadly misinformed, a shill for the dealership, or just plain wrong.

As noted before, his contributions accomplish nothing but to muddy the facts of the matter. Troys case is cut and dried, with facts that can be, and have been verified. Roberts facts are wrong, his assumptions are wrong, his sources are wrong. He's wrong.

Period. End of discussion. :)
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

TSK TSK TSK ..Aside from the cocaine deal that the government framed him with, he is the greatest thing that ever happened to the automotive world.

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Apparently, all of you are comprehension disabled. Pay attention to the teacher children. The STOCK wastegate that the factory installed on the Neon is set at FOUR(4) psi. I could try to teach you all things like BAROMETRIC pressure and ATMOSPHERIC density, but it would be a waste of time. I asked the guys at the Dodge dealership this morning about your magic 15psi Neons and they laughed. They wished they were made like that. They would love to do all those head gasket changes. Heather, I hope Troy DOES get some sort of satifactory resolution out of all this. I just don't think he will. He should have taken off all the aftermarket stuff(BOV/Wastegate/etc) and slapped the stock stuff back on before getting it to them to look at. As for the Mitsubishi Turbo unit. Yes, I know it CAN make 11-14 psi of boost. That has never been the issue. The issue has always been, it does NOT make that much boost in the Neon from the FACTORY. I could probably double that amount by welding the wastegate shut. The facts still remain the same. The FACTORY setting is 4 psi. The dealership voided the warranty and there's nothing any of US can do about it. I do not work at the dealership. I do outsourced work for them though. I do performance work for them. The Hemi Magnums are the Cats' Ass.Troy, I don't run around screaming about my service in the Marines. However, it gives a point of reference as to WHY and WHEN the car was purchased. My cars never lose power so I'm not sure how that relates. My role model is John DeLorean. Aside from the cocaine deal that the government framed him with, he is the greatest thing that ever happened to the automotive world. Again, Troy, I hope you are able to get something done with your car. Just do not expect it to happen. If I build an engine for someones car, and then sell them, over the counter, a Nitrous system and supercharger, and they install them on the engine themselves, I am NOT responsible for the damage done to the engine when it comes apart. Period. End of discussion.
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#10 Consumer Comment

Robert, Please get back on the subject

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

Hello Robert,
I appreciate the fact that you feel that you know all there is to know about the difference in a wastegate and BOV, but lets move on. The point here, is that Lithia has broken the law. Plain and simple. I even got an apology letter from the General Manager today, stating that this "Oliver" person either does not work there, or if he does, he will be fired for acting like a masengill. Anyway, the point here is not for YOU to be right about the diference of opion (and apparently research sources), the point here is to let Lithia in Burlingame California know that Troy and I aren't going to be pissed on. Good luck to you, Robert in Florida. Stay out of the way of the next hurricane! And to those at Lithia, thanks for the apology for how "Oliver" is behaving. Now lets try a public apology for the way our warranty issues were dealt with, and, oh, thats right....A REFUND, and a warranty would be wonderful!
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#11 Consumer Comment

Where's Mr. "Oliver" - EMPLOYEE

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

Hello "Oliver". How is "Oliver" today? Hey, "Oliver", did someone at your work start going through your computer today? "Oliver", Marve Pederson says there is no "Oliver" working there, and has said that "Oliver" will be terminated for his unprofessional behavior. Wow. Its funny that someone who doesn't work at the dealership knows so much about this situation. But, I have a feeling who this is. So, "Oliver", where are you now???? Big man "Oliver". I knew you were a puss. Come out come out where ever you are, "Oliver"!

Of COURSE Oliver works there.
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#12 Consumer Suggestion

tisk tisk tisk liar

AUTHOR: Pete - (U.S.A.)

first, they are not one and the same.. you can run a bov valve and use the stock wastegate.. they are completly different..

you can run a new wastegate and stock bov..

dude, how can you argue? damn... no joke though, one day you will reap what you sow... i know you are from the dodge dealer trying to play it off as being an outsider..

and btw: my bank account is quite happy, no fries here..

damn, i would like to strangle you though :)
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#13 Consumer Comment

Responce to Robert **MIS-INFORMATION**

AUTHOR: Mike - (Canada)

Robert...oh my have you been mis-informed about how a turbo charged car works! A stock SRT4 from the factory runs in the 12-15psi range depending on outside conditions (yes it changes with the weather). Please note that the stock wastegate has a 4psi spring in it which is why you are confused...but this does NOT mean the car runs 4psi max boost in stock form as this is not the case. The car has a boost controller built into the stock computer which allows the car to boost past the level the wastegate and "hold". A blow off valve and a wastegate are two totally different items and though are both used on a turbo charged car, they serve different purposes. Below I have given you two DETAILED descriptions as to what a BOV and a WASTEGATE are!!!
1. Wastegate : Most automotive turbochargers have a wastegate, which allows the use of a smaller turbocharger to reduce lag while preventing it from spinning too quickly at high engine speeds. The wastegate is a valve that allows the exhaust to bypass the turbine blades. The wastegate senses the boost pressure. If the pressure gets too high, it could be an indicator that the turbine is spinning too quickly, so the wastegate bypasses some of the exhaust around the turbine blades, allowing the blades to slow down.
2. From the Chrysler factory services manuals call it by it's real name: the "turbo bypass valve or surge valve". This is a valve that will suddenly open and a certain pressure to maintain that pressure (kind of like a pressure regulator).

So again I need you to understand that the wastegate and the BOV (on the factory turbo compressor) may seem simular but are much different in thier functions! They are two separate items and are on different ends of the turbo assembly one being on the compressor side and the other on the turbine side.

In closing I hope you can now understand a bit better how a turbo charged car works...
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#14 Consumer Comment

Responce to Robert **MIS-INFORMATION**

AUTHOR: Mike - (Canada)

Robert...oh my have you been mis-informed about how a turbo charged car works! A stock SRT4 from the factory runs in the 12-15psi range depending on outside conditions (yes it changes with the weather). Please note that the stock wastegate has a 4psi spring in it which is why you are confused...but this does NOT mean the car runs 4psi max boost in stock form as this is not the case. The car has a boost controller built into the stock computer which allows the car to boost past the level the wastegate and "hold". A blow off valve and a wastegate are two totally different items and though are both used on a turbo charged car, they serve different purposes. Below I have given you two DETAILED descriptions as to what a BOV and a WASTEGATE are!!!
1. Wastegate : Most automotive turbochargers have a wastegate, which allows the use of a smaller turbocharger to reduce lag while preventing it from spinning too quickly at high engine speeds. The wastegate is a valve that allows the exhaust to bypass the turbine blades. The wastegate senses the boost pressure. If the pressure gets too high, it could be an indicator that the turbine is spinning too quickly, so the wastegate bypasses some of the exhaust around the turbine blades, allowing the blades to slow down.
2. From the Chrysler factory services manuals call it by it's real name: the "turbo bypass valve or surge valve". This is a valve that will suddenly open and a certain pressure to maintain that pressure (kind of like a pressure regulator).

So again I need you to understand that the wastegate and the BOV (on the factory turbo compressor) may seem simular but are much different in thier functions! They are two separate items and are on different ends of the turbo assembly one being on the compressor side and the other on the turbine side.

In closing I hope you can now understand a bit better how a turbo charged car works...
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#15 Consumer Comment

Responce to Robert **MIS-INFORMATION**

AUTHOR: Mike - (Canada)

Robert...oh my have you been mis-informed about how a turbo charged car works! A stock SRT4 from the factory runs in the 12-15psi range depending on outside conditions (yes it changes with the weather). Please note that the stock wastegate has a 4psi spring in it which is why you are confused...but this does NOT mean the car runs 4psi max boost in stock form as this is not the case. The car has a boost controller built into the stock computer which allows the car to boost past the level the wastegate and "hold". A blow off valve and a wastegate are two totally different items and though are both used on a turbo charged car, they serve different purposes. Below I have given you two DETAILED descriptions as to what a BOV and a WASTEGATE are!!!
1. Wastegate : Most automotive turbochargers have a wastegate, which allows the use of a smaller turbocharger to reduce lag while preventing it from spinning too quickly at high engine speeds. The wastegate is a valve that allows the exhaust to bypass the turbine blades. The wastegate senses the boost pressure. If the pressure gets too high, it could be an indicator that the turbine is spinning too quickly, so the wastegate bypasses some of the exhaust around the turbine blades, allowing the blades to slow down.
2. From the Chrysler factory services manuals call it by it's real name: the "turbo bypass valve or surge valve". This is a valve that will suddenly open and a certain pressure to maintain that pressure (kind of like a pressure regulator).

So again I need you to understand that the wastegate and the BOV (on the factory turbo compressor) may seem simular but are much different in thier functions! They are two separate items and are on different ends of the turbo assembly one being on the compressor side and the other on the turbine side.

In closing I hope you can now understand a bit better how a turbo charged car works...
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#16 Consumer Comment

Hey Robert.

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Well I don't know what to say... oh wait yes I do. Why are you so hard on people, especially Pete???

Anyways, you are correct in one way. The bov/wastegate both blow-off excess pressure. But they do it in very different ways. I am not going to argue with you over what he replaced rather I want to inform you to what works, and how. I take it that you are well educated and have automotive experience.

A bov is located on the "clean" pressure side of the turbo. As you know a turbo uses exhaust gasses to pressurize incoming air. This air is then fed into an intercooler where it is cooled to make it more stable and add hp. Just after it leaves the intercooler, located in the front bumper of the srt, it travels aprox 1 foot where it is met by the throttle body. This is the normal place for a blow off valve. You try and place it as close to the throttle body as possible.

The SRT is different. Dodge in all of there wisdom decided to integrate that unit into the turbo itself. It is actually located on the bottom of the turbo. The mopar performance one is a nice shade of blue, making it very easy to see. The surge valve connects to this with a pink line that routes to a vacuum control center.

When the accelerator is pushed the exhaust spins the turbo as you know. When you release the accelerator pressure is too high and the surge valve opens. On a stock car the valve would vent the air to the intake side of the turbo. Thus allowing it to be resucked into the turbo.

The wastegate on this car is basically like any other internal wastegate. The wastegate controls the amount of exhaust used to spin the turbo. By creating a leak the turbo will only spin so fast, and thus creating a pre-set level of boost.

Now from what I have read and seen he replaced the computer and the blow off valve, and never touched the wastegate. They are two very different physical pieces that do very different things, but they accomplish the same goal.

I own and srt, and have for 6 months now. My stock boost is ~12 psi. The reason to get the blow off valve is to get the sound of a mild whistle when you let off the gas. The reason to get stage 1 is for the slightly higher boost, around 2 psi, but better timing, and fuel control.

I hope that I have in some way helped you out and please check out www.srtforums.com for more information on this matter.

Thanks and have a great day.
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#17 Author of original report

You're false statements are only causing confusion Robert

AUTHOR: Troy - (U.S.A.)

You seem to have a vested interest in this Robert, or maybe you just like arguing. You are mixing up a couple facts and adding in some of your own. If your postings are any reflection of your knowledge of cars, you should seriously consider another career. I wouldn't trust you to check the air in my tires.

First mistake-"I don't believe a word about his claim that the turbo only added 25 horepower. If it did, what a waste of money. I can add over 200 HP for under $200 with NoX. "

For some reason you assumed that I added an aftermarket turbo to a N/A motor. Not true, the SRT-4 comes stock with a turbo. I only added the Mopar Stage-1 ECU and injectors.

Second mistake-"Here we go again, The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form"

I have never installed and aftermarket wastegate, nor admitted to installing one. Would you mind showing me where I've stated this? The wastegate on my car is the stock unit and has never been touched. Good imagination though. Maybe you should put the bong down and step back into reality.

Third mistake-"The factory sets the boost at 4 psi"

No Robert, a stock SRT-4 usually boosts around 10-12 psi, sometimes a little higher in warm weather. Would you mind quoting your source?

Fourth mistake-"He cranked up the boost at least by a factor of 3 and more than likely to 4 times the allowable amount the engine could take"

Once again, you're fabricting your own facts. Stage-1 has upped my boost a couple psi, but 3 to 4 times? Sorry, but you're either misinformed or just plain confused. Your speculation as to what my car is boosting is akeen to me telling you how much gas you have in your car right now.

Fifth mistake-"A "blow-off" valve is a wastegate."

The mopar blow off valve isn't even a blow off valve in the traditional sense. It's a small plate with holes that bolts on top of the stock surge valve. It's only function is to vent the compressed air into the atmosphere instead of the intake tract. It offers no form of boost control and cannot in any way shape or form raise the boost level. If it's a wastegate, then why is Mopar reffering to it as a blow off valve? There is obviously a wastegate on the turbo unit, but it's an entirely seperate part. Modifying a wastegate to hold higher boost is something that can be done, but it's never been an issue to begin with as I've never touched mine.

As far as I'm concerned, your posts are meaningless and your so called "facts" have absolutely no validity. Nice try though. Your fabricted additions to my experience have only damaged your credibility to the point where I consider your ramblings complete nonsense. For somebody that likes arguing as much as you, you're horrible at it. Your time would be better invested reciting your stories to grade school children who may actually believe what you say.

You've escaped the main fact here that the dealership told me I could mod with the Mopar parts and still keep my warranty. They have since changed their mind at my expense, does this seem right? Is this how you prctice business?

I'll give you one thing though Robert, you're entertaining to say the least. "My wife drives our "old car". It's a 91 Daytona that was bought new when I was getting ready for the Gulf War."

Couldn't wait to get that one in, could you? So what? I'm a veteran too, but you don't see me shamelessly announcing it. You're no different than the people here that post complaints telling us how "the car lost power with the wife and 4 kids in the car on a dark freezing road and everybodies life was in danger." Most people see through that Robert.

One last bit of your amusement--"My 3rd car is my toy. It's a 67 Firebird. Fiberglass body, 528HP ramair455, tripower on top, 29X12.5 sportsman tires in back, and a BUILT BY BOB TH700R4 tranny. It weighs 1600 lbs and hooks like a sumbitch. It gets 5.3 mpg and the only thing you'll ever see of it are the taillights. It puts waste to anything I run against with ease. Your make-believe racecars that carry the Honda or Neon nametags don't even amuse me anymore.

Great, are you looking for a round of applause? Your seeking of acceptance and admiration for your sweet ride is pathetic and sad in a way. Who's your role model anyway,
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#18 Consumer Suggestion

Robert, please learn, THEN post.

AUTHOR: William - (U.S.A.)

Robert, please have your friend fax you the following pages from the PL-SRT-4 Service manual.

Page 11-3, this states the following

"During normal operation the SRT - 4 turbocharger
will emit a very high frequency whistle at full boost 68.9 - 103.4 kPa (10 - 15 psi) during WOT acceleration.

Next, I recommend Page 11-15, which has a vac digram of the car. It clearly shows both an SVA (surge valve assembly, the BOV, or diverter valve) AND a wastegate. They are NOT the smae item, take the word of a man who has actually changed both of these items more times than most Dodge mechanics, or the book they use.

Also Page 11-3, which details troubleshooting procedures for the turbo. Note that all overboost conditions are shown as wastegate malfunctions, NOT surge valve malfunctions.

Please reomove youself from this, you are distracting from the facts that Troys warranty was illegally voided. His modifications did not cause this problem. You are just muddying the waters with incorrect knowledge recieved from ill-informed people. Get those pages, read them and learn.
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#19 Consumer Suggestion

Pete, tsk, tsk, tsk

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

As usual, you are completely reading comprehension disabled. Troy told the dealership HE(TROY) installed the sftermarket BOV(wategate). They are one and the same. You can call it whatever you want. They do exactly the same thing. They relieve excess pressure. You can whine like the others but it won't take away from the fact that I am right, so is the dealership and the factory. Strange isn't it, that the only people here crying about the warranty being voided are people who aren't even involved in it. Maybe you should try doing some research before you try to respond. My info comes directly from the factory service manuals. I told you before, I do outsourced work for many dealers. They provide me with anything I need in the "book" department. As for your fascination with my cars and clutches, why? Are you amazed that some people actually know how to drive? I have 3 cars right now. I drive a 98 Concorde LXI that looks like it just came off the showroom floor. I take care of my cars. My wife drives our "old car". It's a 91 Daytona that was bought new when I was getting ready for the Gulf War. She needed a reliable car with a warranty(7/70K) and a stickshift, since the TF404 tranny wasn't known as being reliable. I rebuilt the engine at 175K. There was no wear in it other than a set of rings that came apart in the #4 cylinder. The cylinder was still good, no damage to anything except the piston. No wear. Get it. I use Mobil-1 in all of my cars. My 3rd car is my toy. It's a 67 Firebird. Fiberglass body, 528HP ramair455, tripower on top, 29X12.5 sportsman tires in back, and a BUILT BY BOB TH700R4 tranny. It weighs 1600 lbs and hooks like a sumbitch. It gets 5.3 mpg and the only thing you'll ever see of it are the taillights. It puts waste to anything I run against with ease. Your make-believe racecars that carry the Honda or Neon nametags don't even amuse me anymore. Since you also seem interested in my employment, here it is. I own a repair shop. I make a good living. I buy a new car every 7-8 years. That means the Daytona is going to be sold soon and a new 300-C will be in my driveway. How about you? Still driving that Sentra? If there was any doubt about WHERE I am, ED and his staff can contact me. They have my phone numbers. Have fun in LALA Land Pete. One day, you'll get that promotion and you'll be able to say "would you like fries with that?"
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#20 Consumer Suggestion

robert, you are just plain WRONG on your information..

AUTHOR: Pete - (U.S.A.)

A "blow-off" valve is a wastegate. From the factory, the boost on this car is set at 4 psi, not the 15 psi some of you are claiming. If it was set at 15 psi, why would anyone need to buy an aftermarket unit that is set for 11 and can be adjusted up to 15. DUH! That is straight from the service manual and the Stage-1 instructions.

*************
no, AGP makes wga.. which is completly different from the BOV.. you cannot use the BOV to gain any HP..

the factory boost is 14psi, not 4

The car is making 3-4 times as much boost as it was designed for and that is why the company voided his warranty. God bless you Tony for making my point. I love arguing with people. Especially when they actually make my point without realizing it. You said the clutches have shown problems at 300+ HP. Very good. You get an "A".

********
its not 3-4 times as much boost, boost goes from 14 to 16 psi..

he is NO WHERE NEAR 300hp too..




I said the aftermarket unit would add from 100-150 extra ponies, and you have now confirmed it. The Satge-1 kit only brings the HP levels to 240 HP/260 FtLbs Torque. You must do MORE modifications in order to bring the numbers above 300. That is where the AFTERMARKET wastegate comes into the picture. Another thing, Ihave never had to repplace a clutch on any of my cars. my first car finally died at 250K miles. This was a Corvair that taught 3 kids to drive.


************
he has no aftermarket wastegate...


For the love of God, you are retarded

your car had the original clutch at 250k miles? wow, i have never heard of something like that lasting so long.. 99% of people i know have it last about 80k or so, one story of 100k

Died with the original clutch still intact. I have owned more cars than most people will ever have. My latest version of a stick shift is a Daytona. I bought it new. It has over 250K miles on it. Again, the clutch is like new. Troy is killing them in 20K miles. Maybe he needs to learn how to drive. As for the Magnuson Act, it does not nullify common sense.

*********

so you bought a new car 100 years ago~~ get a new job and maybe you can buy a car and not have to put 250k miles on it...

oh yea, robert, i'll bet you live somewhere close to that dealership ... and just say you are from florida.... hmm

i hear once you get to hell, it will burn really bad... its not good to lie robert... you dont want to lie anymore do you?
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#21 Consumer Comment

I hope this Robert guy is just trying to mess with everybody!

AUTHOR: Bobby - (U.S.A.)

Like the title states, I hope you are just trying to piss people off because if you really think what you are saying is true, you've got problems! If you did your "research" like you say you did, you would know that the SRT-4 comes with a turbo from the factory and boosts anywhere from 12-15 psi depending on ambient conditions. It does not come boosted at 4 psi like you state. And the "blow off valve" that he put on the car is not an actual "blow off valve".

The car comes STOCK with a re-circulating blow off valve. The piece that he added just allows the stock valve to be vented into the atmosphere, hence the "hissing" noise as you called it. That is all it does, just makes a noise when you let off the gas. It is by NO WAY A POWER ADDER! You will see no extra power by adding Mopar's BOV or any other BOV for that matter. If you are so good at research just go to dodge.com and do some there.
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#22 Author of original report

You're wrong Robert. Research a little deeper before spewing nonsense

AUTHOR: Troy - (U.S.A.)

Robert, the Mopar blow off valve valve(Plate)installed on my SRT-4 has absolutely no effect on the boost levels. It bolts to the factory surge valve and vents air that would normally be redirected to the intake. In laymens terms, it's a noise-maker and has no bearing on boost levels, unless it leaks and causes boost to drop.

The factory boost on an SRT-4 is around 10-12 psi, not the 4 psi that you claimed. I'm not sure where you acquired this information, but you're very wrong. The wastegate on my car is the factory unit and has never been tampered with. My boost is only showing a couple psi increase from stock levels, not the 3-4 times that you're claiming. If that were the case, the stock boost gauge would be buried as I'd be making from 20-35 psi, which would obviously be harmful to the motor.

Here's a quote from your last post, Robert, "I said the aftermarket unit would add from 100-150 extra ponies, and you have now confirmed it."

Your last statement is so far out there I'm having a hard time figuring out where to start. The Mopar blow off valve, which you seem to be confusing with a wastegate can no in no way raise the boost levels. If this were true, then why spend the $300 for the Stage-1(25 hp), if I could just slap in this magical little blue plate for $65 and gain 100-150 hp? You're getting a little cocky in your responses and when you're wrong, like in this case, it's only hurting your credibility.

If I fry the clutch, no problem, I'll pay for it. What concerns me is the deceptive manner in which Lithia of Burlingame has handled this. The motor was making a horrible clacking noise when revved out of gear. Something broken inside the motor was Lithia's first guess. Instead of diagnosing the problem and finding the cause, they popped the hood, heard the blow off valve and instantly alerted me of my powertrain warranty now being void without even knowing the problem.

The sales staff are using the Mopar Stage upgrades and parts as a tool to promote the sale of the SRT-4 under the guise that they will in fact not affect the factory warranty. According to the Mopar catalog the installation of these parts will not automatically void the warranty. According to the Magnussen-Moss Act it is unlawful to summarily void a warranty for the use of aftermarket parts. Lithia of Burlingame doesn't appear to recognize any of this, all they seem to be concerned with is finding a way to get out of completing work under warranty. They themselves explained to me the cause of my clutch failure being consequential to the flywheel bolts backing out, now they appear to be denying this. Is it possible that at the same exact moment of my clutch going out that the loose bolts appeared? I don't buy it.

I can deal with paying for a clutch. What I won't tolerate is the unlawful loss of my entire powertrain warranty for operating within the guilines of my warranty and the Magnussen Moss Act.
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#23 Consumer Comment

Robert doesn't get it... Neither the stage 1 kit or the blow off plate have anything to do with the factory wastegate.

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

Troy has 2 modifications done to his car...

1.) The Mopar BOV. Although Mopar calls this part a "blow off valve", it's actually just a blow off plate. It sits at the surge valve and vents compressed air to the atmosphere. It does nothing to affect boost levels. It is a noise maker. Nothing more, nothing less.

http://www.modernperformance.com/dcx/mopar_bov_adapter.jpg

2.) The Mopar Stage 1 kit. This kit includes 5 pieces of hardware...a reflashed PCM and four new fuel injectors. IT DOES NOT INCLUDE A NEW WASTEGATE!

I don't know how many people need to repeat this before your head absorbs it, but it's fact. Neither the stage 1 kit or the blow off plate have anything to do with the factory wastegate. You're making yourself look worse with every post.
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#24 Consumer Comment

PSI Rebuttal.

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

Have you driven this car?

I don't know much about cars. Mostly, I know what Troy has taught me. I was with Troy when he originally test drove the car. The car we have came with a PSI of btn 12-13 STOCK. Unless, of course, I was seeing things, or Lithia did something to it before we even sat in the damn car. I was there when the Sales MANAGER at Lithia told Troy that the mods they were coming out with were "going to be great!" The manager even told Troy that stage-1 would not be the only thing he could put on his car. He stated that Dodge would cover all Mopar "upgrades" under warranty, since Mopar is a part of the DCX corp. Since you claim to know what you are talking about, why don't you actually drive the car. Go to one of your outsourcing dealerships, and drive one. You'll see the thrill in this car, and why any car enthusiast would love to own one. Its a fun little car. Troy does not abuse this car. This car looks like it just came out of the crap hole we now call Lithia. Troy did his research before he did ANYTHING to this car. He read the warranty papers, he read the Magnussen Moss Act, and a few other customer protection laws. I guess what I am trying to say is, before you claim to know how this car comes stock, drive one. The point that I think you understand, is that Lithia's customer service sucks. They are LIARS, and as far as I'm concerned THEIVES. Funny how Mr. "Oliver" has disappeared from discussion here.
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#25 Consumer Comment

PSI Rebuttal.

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

Have you driven this car?

I don't know much about cars. Mostly, I know what Troy has taught me. I was with Troy when he originally test drove the car. The car we have came with a PSI of btn 12-13 STOCK. Unless, of course, I was seeing things, or Lithia did something to it before we even sat in the damn car. I was there when the Sales MANAGER at Lithia told Troy that the mods they were coming out with were "going to be great!" The manager even told Troy that stage-1 would not be the only thing he could put on his car. He stated that Dodge would cover all Mopar "upgrades" under warranty, since Mopar is a part of the DCX corp. Since you claim to know what you are talking about, why don't you actually drive the car. Go to one of your outsourcing dealerships, and drive one. You'll see the thrill in this car, and why any car enthusiast would love to own one. Its a fun little car. Troy does not abuse this car. This car looks like it just came out of the crap hole we now call Lithia. Troy did his research before he did ANYTHING to this car. He read the warranty papers, he read the Magnussen Moss Act, and a few other customer protection laws. I guess what I am trying to say is, before you claim to know how this car comes stock, drive one. The point that I think you understand, is that Lithia's customer service sucks. They are LIARS, and as far as I'm concerned THEIVES. Funny how Mr. "Oliver" has disappeared from discussion here.
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#26 Consumer Comment

PSI Rebuttal.

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

Have you driven this car?

I don't know much about cars. Mostly, I know what Troy has taught me. I was with Troy when he originally test drove the car. The car we have came with a PSI of btn 12-13 STOCK. Unless, of course, I was seeing things, or Lithia did something to it before we even sat in the damn car. I was there when the Sales MANAGER at Lithia told Troy that the mods they were coming out with were "going to be great!" The manager even told Troy that stage-1 would not be the only thing he could put on his car. He stated that Dodge would cover all Mopar "upgrades" under warranty, since Mopar is a part of the DCX corp. Since you claim to know what you are talking about, why don't you actually drive the car. Go to one of your outsourcing dealerships, and drive one. You'll see the thrill in this car, and why any car enthusiast would love to own one. Its a fun little car. Troy does not abuse this car. This car looks like it just came out of the crap hole we now call Lithia. Troy did his research before he did ANYTHING to this car. He read the warranty papers, he read the Magnussen Moss Act, and a few other customer protection laws. I guess what I am trying to say is, before you claim to know how this car comes stock, drive one. The point that I think you understand, is that Lithia's customer service sucks. They are LIARS, and as far as I'm concerned THEIVES. Funny how Mr. "Oliver" has disappeared from discussion here.
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#27 Consumer Suggestion

The factory sets the boost at 4 psi

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

HE(Troy) stated in his original missive that the dealer voided his warranty because of the "blow=off valve" he installed. It was hissing at the mechanic and it caught the man's attention. A "blow-off" valve is a wastegate. From the factory, the boost on this car is set at 4 psi, not the 15 psi some of you are claiming. If it was set at 15 psi, why would anyone need to buy an aftermarket unit that is set for 11 and can be adjusted up to 15. DUH! That is straight from the service manual and the Stage-1 instructions.

I told you people this is easy to research. I can just call the Parts dept down the street. I do outsourced work for the dealers around here. The waste gate they were concerned with was NOT the factory unit. That is why they had issues with it. DUH! again. You can play with the numbers all you want, but the facts are simple. The car is making 3-4 times as much boost as it was designed for and that is why the company voided his warranty. God bless you Tony for making my point. I love arguing with people. Especially when they actually make my point without realizing it. You said the clutches have shown problems at 300+ HP. Very good. You get an "A".

I said the aftermarket unit would add from 100-150 extra ponies, and you have now confirmed it. The Satge-1 kit only brings the HP levels to 240 HP/260 FtLbs Torque. You must do MORE modifications in order to bring the numbers above 300. That is where the AFTERMARKET wastegate comes into the picture. Another thing, Ihave never had to repplace a clutch on any of my cars. my first car finally died at 250K miles. This was a Corvair that taught 3 kids to drive.

Died with the original clutch still intact. I have owned more cars than most people will ever have. My latest version of a stick shift is a Daytona. I bought it new. It has over 250K miles on it. Again, the clutch is like new. Troy is killing them in 20K miles. Maybe he needs to learn how to drive. As for the Magnuson Act, it does not nullify common sense.

If this was to go in front of a Judge, he would most likely side with the Dealership. Anybody with a functioning stem knows that if you install RACE ONLY parts on a street car, you are "A"...violating the law, and "B"...doing something to the vehicle for which it was NOT designed to do. Good luck though. If you win, Troy, let us all know. I would love to shove a supercharger on my Concorde and see what happens. Have fun.
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#28 Consumer Comment

From factory at 15 PSI

AUTHOR: Tony - (U.S.A.)

The SRT-4 comes from the factory with

1)turbo installed and peaks at 15 PSI with factory blow off valve

2)04's have the stage 1 fuel injectors which is half the stage one kit. More important than the new ECU, they allow for more fuel delivery to the cyclinders. The ECU only makes minor changes that really could be better managed by a stand alone unit.

Now before you post please do your research completely. Don't assume you know something about these cars or any other car. Make sure you read the last 2 years issues of magizines like Sport Compact Car(scc), Motor Trend(mt), and Car and Driver(cd). Just to mention a few. Know your stuff. Obviously this dealership does not know what is going on and could not even sharpen a pencil. Anyone who is into theses cars know that scc did a full article tearing apart the details of the SRT-4 engine. There has been real care taken to design a powerful reliable motor. This is even more evident by many owners being able to get 400+ HP(horse power) with very few mods(modifications) with out upgrading anything internal. Clutch problems have been found after 300+ HP, which by that time exceeds the engineered maximum usefulness of this specific part. Its only a question of what % the part was over engineered. As for the flywheel bolts loosening. Unless properly torqued from factory there is no reason for this failure. Think about it from a physics point of view. The bolts are only receiving side load forces mainly. This would, with abuse, bend or shear the bolt and not loosen it if properly pre-loaded during installation. Vibration could also loosen these bolts but that would be caused by rotating masses inside the engine being out of balance. To counter act this loctite and locking nuts are often used by many engineers as a safe gaurd. Everyone knows that from stock the cars are overacheivers. Dodge is lying about the HP cliams at the crank also. These vehicles have consistanly proved to have more power at the wheels than what is said to be at the crank. Given HP loss due to mechanical workings of the drivetrain, you can easily assume that from factory horsepower is higher than stated. Guten Tag(good day)

Details of Upgrades for those who don't know. Original HP for an '03 is 215.

The Stage 1 Turbo Kit for the SRT-4 boosts power to 240 hp and
260 ft-lbs. of torque.
Components
Stage 1 PCM
(4) 577 cc/min fuel injectors
(2003 kit only)
Calibration Features
Increased WOT and part throttle boost
Improved turbo response
Boost hold feature during WOT shifts
Enhanced 1st gear boost schedule for a high-performance launch
More aggressive exhaust note during deceleration
Optimized calibration for the Mopar Performance Blow-Off Valve Conversion Kit (P4510548).
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#29 Consumer Suggestion

Robert.... where is your info coming from

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Robert

He never installed an aftermarket Waste Gate Actuator. He admitted to installing Stage I Mopar upgrade, and the Mopar BOV. The only one of those items that adds power is stage I. The Mopar BOV simply redirects vented air into the atmosphere instead of back into the intake tract.

Since you seem to have some understanding about a turbo system, let me help you understand the information you found about Waste Gate Actuators. Stock an SRT-4 makes roughly 14-15 psi of boost on a good ideal day. If you bury the throttle you will see that after the boost spikes to 14-15psi it drops down to 10-12 (right around 4k rpms).. and it carries that to the redline. It does this because the stock Waste Gate begins dumping boost at 4psi. An aftermarket adjustable wastegate actuator allows you to set when the car begins to dump boost.... meaning you can set it so that the car can hold that 15psi all the way to the redline instead of dumping some of it. Now that does not constitute doubling, tripling, or quadrulping the boost... so that blows your theory out of the water. In fact if he wanted too he couldnt double the boost. Our turbo is too small to support more than roughly 22psi... anything after that and you exceed the efficiency point of the turbo.

For the record Chrylser makes one of these too. It is part of the Stage II upgrade. It is common to find a Stage II wastegate actuator on many owners cars.

That comment about the not for sale on..... that just means it's not carb certified. It doesnt mean that he can't put that on his vehicle and then go to an emissions station and pass with flying colors.... cause he can.... it has happened hunereds of times. The fact that you brought that up makes me think you are Oliver, or another Lithia goon. You guys are trying too hard!

Oh and if Chrysler is Voiding his warranty because he added those parts then they plain and simple broke the law. The law states that they can opt to not warranty an item if an aftermarket part is directly attributed to breaking that item.... that means no voided warranty... they can just choose to not cover an item. Chrysler/Lithia hasn't even proven that either the Stage I or the BOV broke anything so they have no legal legs to stand on for not covering or voiding a powertrain warranty. This is a case were David will bring down Goliath once again.
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#30 Consumer Comment

Correction To Robert's Post

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

Robert

I'm not sure if you own a SRT-4 BUT I do and stock boost on my car was 13psi (avg) . My Stage 1 boost was 15psi (Avg) . My Stage 2 boost is 18psi (Avg) .

There are several companies offering after market wastegate actuators for the SRT-4 .

Troy has stated that he is willing to pay for repairs IF the after market parts he installed had created the problem BUT Lithia will NOT give him a reason as to WHY the after market parts caused the problem ... Troy wants to know exactly HOW the Blow Off Valve and Stage 1 created the tranny bolts to back out .

It's the way the warranty was voided just for having after market parts w/o the correct diagnosis that they were the contributing factor to the problem he was having w/ his car .

Troy has stated that he understands the pay to play concept and would have no problems paying for damage caused by his installatiion of mods to his car .

By the way there have been several posts about the backing out of the tranny bolts, even on cars that didn't have any mods added .

Hope this helps you and others understand the situation a little more clearer .
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#31 Consumer Comment

Do more research Robert, Your statements are not only false, but accusatory in nature

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

Robert...you seem to understand cars in general but you don't seem to understand Troy's car or the specifics surrounding his situation. Please take the time to do additional research to avoid potentially posting any more misinformation. This fiasco is confusing enough as it is.

The SRT-4 is a turbocharged Neon from the Dodge factory. At roughly 10psi-12psi of factory boost the car is capable of between 220 and 240 fwhp. The stage 1 kit installed on Troy's car and sold my Mopar Performance (an OEM) DOES NOT include a new wastegate. Rather the stage 1 kit consists only of four 577cc fuel injectors and a reflashed Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Mopar retails the kit for around $400

http://www.mopar.com/srt_stage_1.htm

Boost is increased by only 1-2 psi throughout the power band. No mechanical or hardware alterations to the turbo or factory wastegate are required. This is more or less a "plug-and-play" modification any weekend enthusiast can install in an afternoon with a basic set of tools and experience. In addition to the ease of installation and the relatively low cost, many Dodge dealerships and their sales representatives either install stage 1 on their SRT-4 showroom models as an incentive to buy, or openly advertise this kit as a viable way to safely increase engine output without sacrificing the car's 30k mile factory powertrain warranty.

No where has it been mentioned that the factory wastegate was replaced...not by Lithia and not by the vehicles registered owner. I'm not sure where you think you found this information or why you saw fit to post it, but it's innacurate. Troy's contention from day one was that honesty is the best policy. He has kept no secrets from Lithia because he has done nothing wrong and has nothing to hide. Your statements are not only false, but accusatory in nature. I think you owe the man an apology.
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#32 Consumer Comment

Here we go again, The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

I've said time and time again, I can do research on stuff in minutes. Here it is. The Stage-1 kit brings the SRT-4 to 240 HP/260FtLbs Torque. This is at 4 psi of boost. The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form. I found it online. There is only 1 company I've been able to find making it. It makes 11 psi out of the box and can be adjusted to 15 psi. Get it people? He cranked up the boost at least by a factor of 3 and more than likely to 4 times the allowable amount the engine could take. This is the reason these parts are for racing, not street. Boost pressures like this will DRAMATICALLY increase the HP/Torque and as such, also DRAMATICALLY decrease the life of the engine. If the kit will produce an extra 25 HP at 4 psi, it is reasonable to extrapolate the same kit will produce between 100-150HP more at boost pressures that have been tripled or quadrupled. As I said, Troy abused his engine. Oliver is way over the top in his rantings, but that does not discard the fact that Troy is out of warranty on the clutch assy(20K miles on a 12K mile warranty) and Chrysler has voided his warranty on the engine/drivetrain due to the ILLEGAL aftermarket parts. The Stage-1 kit even has the following disclaimer on the sites, packaging, and instructions..."not for sale or use on emission controlled vehicles". This means not street legal. Troy knows it, he's just mad. Oliver needs his issues with customer service resolved. Maybe he should try some aroma therapy or whatever it is they do in Cali.
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#33 Consumer Comment

Here we go again, The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

I've said time and time again, I can do research on stuff in minutes. Here it is. The Stage-1 kit brings the SRT-4 to 240 HP/260FtLbs Torque. This is at 4 psi of boost. The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form. I found it online. There is only 1 company I've been able to find making it. It makes 11 psi out of the box and can be adjusted to 15 psi. Get it people? He cranked up the boost at least by a factor of 3 and more than likely to 4 times the allowable amount the engine could take. This is the reason these parts are for racing, not street. Boost pressures like this will DRAMATICALLY increase the HP/Torque and as such, also DRAMATICALLY decrease the life of the engine. If the kit will produce an extra 25 HP at 4 psi, it is reasonable to extrapolate the same kit will produce between 100-150HP more at boost pressures that have been tripled or quadrupled. As I said, Troy abused his engine. Oliver is way over the top in his rantings, but that does not discard the fact that Troy is out of warranty on the clutch assy(20K miles on a 12K mile warranty) and Chrysler has voided his warranty on the engine/drivetrain due to the ILLEGAL aftermarket parts. The Stage-1 kit even has the following disclaimer on the sites, packaging, and instructions..."not for sale or use on emission controlled vehicles". This means not street legal. Troy knows it, he's just mad. Oliver needs his issues with customer service resolved. Maybe he should try some aroma therapy or whatever it is they do in Cali.
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#34 Consumer Comment

Here we go again, The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

I've said time and time again, I can do research on stuff in minutes. Here it is. The Stage-1 kit brings the SRT-4 to 240 HP/260FtLbs Torque. This is at 4 psi of boost. The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form. I found it online. There is only 1 company I've been able to find making it. It makes 11 psi out of the box and can be adjusted to 15 psi. Get it people? He cranked up the boost at least by a factor of 3 and more than likely to 4 times the allowable amount the engine could take. This is the reason these parts are for racing, not street. Boost pressures like this will DRAMATICALLY increase the HP/Torque and as such, also DRAMATICALLY decrease the life of the engine. If the kit will produce an extra 25 HP at 4 psi, it is reasonable to extrapolate the same kit will produce between 100-150HP more at boost pressures that have been tripled or quadrupled. As I said, Troy abused his engine. Oliver is way over the top in his rantings, but that does not discard the fact that Troy is out of warranty on the clutch assy(20K miles on a 12K mile warranty) and Chrysler has voided his warranty on the engine/drivetrain due to the ILLEGAL aftermarket parts. The Stage-1 kit even has the following disclaimer on the sites, packaging, and instructions..."not for sale or use on emission controlled vehicles". This means not street legal. Troy knows it, he's just mad. Oliver needs his issues with customer service resolved. Maybe he should try some aroma therapy or whatever it is they do in Cali.
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#35 Consumer Comment

Here we go again, The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

I've said time and time again, I can do research on stuff in minutes. Here it is. The Stage-1 kit brings the SRT-4 to 240 HP/260FtLbs Torque. This is at 4 psi of boost. The aftermarket wastegate he has admitted to installing is NOT sold by Chrysler in any shape or form. I found it online. There is only 1 company I've been able to find making it. It makes 11 psi out of the box and can be adjusted to 15 psi. Get it people? He cranked up the boost at least by a factor of 3 and more than likely to 4 times the allowable amount the engine could take. This is the reason these parts are for racing, not street. Boost pressures like this will DRAMATICALLY increase the HP/Torque and as such, also DRAMATICALLY decrease the life of the engine. If the kit will produce an extra 25 HP at 4 psi, it is reasonable to extrapolate the same kit will produce between 100-150HP more at boost pressures that have been tripled or quadrupled. As I said, Troy abused his engine. Oliver is way over the top in his rantings, but that does not discard the fact that Troy is out of warranty on the clutch assy(20K miles on a 12K mile warranty) and Chrysler has voided his warranty on the engine/drivetrain due to the ILLEGAL aftermarket parts. The Stage-1 kit even has the following disclaimer on the sites, packaging, and instructions..."not for sale or use on emission controlled vehicles". This means not street legal. Troy knows it, he's just mad. Oliver needs his issues with customer service resolved. Maybe he should try some aroma therapy or whatever it is they do in Cali.
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#36 Consumer Comment

Correction of Robert

AUTHOR: Dustin - (U.S.A.)

Robert,

I agree with everything that you stated except for one thing. You stated that you did not believe that Troy did not abuse his car because he had added a turbo which you implied would obviously add more then 25HP. You are correct, adding a turbo would surley raise the output more then 25HP. However, the Dodge SRT-4 comes from dodge with a turbo. He really actually only added the Mopar Stage 1 kit. The kit included an upgraded ECU and new injectors. This is products made by DCX (Parent corp. of Dodge) specifically for this application and do increase the HP by 25.
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#37 Consumer Comment

we will come out there, protest your POS dealership..

AUTHOR: Pete - (U.S.A.)

i cant believe you are taking this back to "he added too much horsepower"

mind you, i have added 50 more HP and stock clutch is fine at 22k miles.. with me beating on the car everyday...


explain that one
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#38 Consumer Comment

IF YOU DONT BEAT THE CAR THEN WHATS THE NEED FOR MORE HORSEPOWER ?

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

A NEON THAT DOES 0-60MPH IS 5 SECONDS ? WHAT MORE COULD A NORMAL PERSON WANT?MOST PEOPLE RELIZE WHEN THEY TAKE AN AVERAGE STREET CAR (STOCK) AND MODIFY IT THE RESULTS ARE YOU'R PROBLEM. YOU ADD HORSEPOWER AND BREAK THINGS
THE FACTORY REP DECLIND WARRANTY COVERAGE BECAUSE OF THE MODIFICATIONS. THE ONLY REASON THE STAGE ONE KIT AND BLOW-OFF VALVE WERE INSTALL IS TO GO FASTER 5 SECONDS TO 60MPH ISNT ENOUGH- GOTA GO FASTER.FASTER FASTER FASTER , WELL I HOPE YOU'R HAPPY GOING SO FAST NOW. WHY WOULD YOU NEED TO GO FASTER ? MORE POWER? WHY......."

I think Mopar Performance and DCx would consider those kind of statements from one of their own employees as counterproductive, short-sighted, judgemental, condascending, bad marketing and highly conduscent to poor aftermarket sales...of which DCx has enjoyed significant success with the SRT-4 model.

If the aftermarket parts Troy added to his car, made by Mopar or otherwise, contributed to the failure of factory equipment then he's responsible for the cost of diagnosis and repair...in that order. People who modify their cars need to be aware of that. But he's also entitled to an explanation of how exactly these aftermarket parts damaged an otherwise properly working factory part.

Lithia did it backwards. They popped the hood on Troy's car, saw a blow off valve, and figured they had one helluva chance to have a pay-day at the owner's expense instead of DCx's because he was clearly a "modder". Lithia prompty notified Troy, independant of DCx, that the installation of the blow off valve alone was sufficient grounds for the factory powertrain warranty to be summarily voided. That is tremendously negligent and premature. This technicality alone, when exposed in a court of law, will be Lithia's undoing.

Their informal diagnosis, based on Troy's verbal description of the problem, was that the balance shafts were bent. They quickly moved to blame the added power of his aftermarket parts for the damage. However, shortly thereafter it was determined that the balance shafts were not damaged, but rather it was the flywheel bolts causing the problem. Although their initial diagnosis (as well as their whole basis for voiding the warranty) was disproven, Lithia stayed the course and conveniently claimed that the newly discovered damage was a direct result of the aftermarket parts Troy had added. They were in too deep at this point to do anything else, as I imagine they'd already systematically set the wheels in motion with DCx in order for the powertrain warranty to be voided. No matter what was wrong with that car, Lithia was gonna try to nail the owner for the cost of repair.

In addition to the negligence of Lithia's intitial diagnosis, as well as Lithia's blatant and wreckless misinterpretation and disregard of the terms and conditions of the factory powertrain warranty, they simply fail to understand the rights afforded to the consumer under the Magnussen Moss Act.

http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_LemonMM2.html

This legislature, originally passed in 1975, was designed specifically to protect car enthusiasts from the flagrant and shameless discriminatory practices dealerships like Lithia regularly perpetrate. In this case the consumer knew his rights. Not only will Lithia lose handily if this goes to court, but any negligent employee involved in the decision making process will most likely be terminated. Bye Bye Oliver. See you at Jiffy Lube.
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#39 Consumer Comment

Oliver, Please Clearify a few things.

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

Oliver, my reason for this response is the many thoughts I would like to share after reading your responses. I will put them in an ordered list to help make things clear.
1. Why are you typing in all caps in two of your responses? You do realize that signifies yelling on the internet. By doing this you seem to be showing a lack of maturity in this situation.

2. Next is this particular quote from your first response.
add massive horsepower withnon street leagal parts

The gains from Stage 1 are not what many would consider massive. Also the parts being non street legal have nothing to do with voiding the warranty. It's all a matter of whether or not the parts caused the failure.

3. Another quote from your first response.
the clutch kit on this vehicle carries a 12month 12000 mile warranty, after almost 20k miles of troys abuse

What signs where there of abuse? Please back up your responses since you are the one needing to defend your actions at the moment. It would help if you where more specific.

4. Again from your first response.

but if the driver hadnt modified the vehicle and added horsepower to the already overpowered engine/trans-clutch combo-and drove like an animal, we wouldnt have this problem...

If you know the above information is it safe to say dodge does as well? That they know that they are selling a vehicle in which the engine is to power full for the trans-clutch combo? So by saying the above this situation would have occurred with or with out his modification since this is a problem with the car to start with? Again what proof do you have that he drove like an animal? Also the reference to him driving like an animal does show again a lack of maturity.

5. Again from your first response.

take it easy troy . its only a neon.

I see the above comment as somewhat offensive. Telling an automotive enthusiast to take it easy over their vehicle because its just a _______. This would be similar to someone with an SRT-10 RAM being told oh sorry your truck is just a ram nothing special don't worry about it. Also if you do consider it just a neon would you be willing to give the incentives for a neon on the SRT-4? Dodge has spent a lot of time and money to try to separate the SRT-4 from the just a neon stereotype.

6. This is from your second response.
IF YOU DEVELOPE A GOOD REPORE WITH A DEALER THEY WILL BE HAPPY TO ASSIST YOU.THIS IS SOMETHING MOST PEOPLE CAN NOT COMPREHEND.

I agree with taking the car to the dealer first. I am not aware if that was an issue in this case so I will not comment. However I believe that when it comes to customer service a customer does not need to develop a good relationship before the dealer is happy to assist. Buying the vehicle from your dealership should be good enough cause for a dealer to be happy to assist the customer in any way possible even if it means bending over backwards. Your response seems to show something to be desired in your business ethics and customer service attitude. Also I am not 100% sure on this but I do believe your dealership has at one point or another installed a mopar stage 1 on an SRT-4. Did at any point you warn the person buying it that it was going to void the warranty, be too much power for the car to handle, and advise that it is not street legal so it will void a warranty? If you answered no to any of the above then you should be held responsible for your careless and money hungry actions of caring more about money than your relation with your customer.

7. This is from your third response.
IF YOU DONT BEAT THE CAR THEN WHATS THE NEED FOR MORE HORSEPOWER ? A NEON THAT DOES 0-60MPH IS 5 SECONDS ? WHAT MORE COULD A NORMAL PERSON WANT?

The need for more power does not mean a person beats on the car, is it not to hard to imagine the possibility of parts being bought for the sole purpose of being able to say you have that part on your car? There are many cars that are show cars and have massive horsepower but are babied more than one can imagine. That may not be the case but how do you know that's not the case? Is it not safe to say the SRT-4 is not targeted for a normal person? Some people are what is called automotive enthusiasts, they in themselves are a different kind of consumer in the auto world. If they want more power through a way in which dealers, not necessarily your own, are advertising it as being able to keep your warranty what is wrong with wanting it? I don't know if you tell people it does not void your warranty but many dealerships are telling owners that and even using that as a sales pitch. Dodge needs to get their act together and straighten that particular problem out.
8. Again there is another quote from your third response.
THE FACTORY REP DECLIND WARRANTY COVERAGE BECAUSE OF THE MODIFICATIONS. THE ONLY REASON THE STAGE ONE KIT AND BLOW-OFF VALVE WERE INSTALL IS TO GO FASTER
Did the rep prove that the modifications where the reason for the problem?

Also I don't believe a Blow-Off Valve actually makes one go faster. Unless you have no proof on the modifications where installed you should not make implications that he was using his car to go fast and abuse the car. Besides what is wrong with wanting to go faster with in the speed limit. If I am about to pass someone who is going below the speed limit I would prefer to spend as little time in the other lane as possible. There is one perfectly Good reason for wanting more power.
9. My last response is something I forgot to mention in your first post.
the clutch kit on this vehicle carries a 12month 12000 mile warranty, after almost 20k miles of troys abuse

If his clutch was out of the warranty limit and he would pay anyways for it, why did you void his warranty? Obviously the work was not required to go through warranty. So what your dealership was should have done was simply replace it and charge him. It is illegal to take the warranty away on a car simply because it has been modified the failure must be proven. But since this is a case in which the warranty on the clutch was over, why did you all void his remaining warranty? His remaining warranty should not even be in question? Please clarify how this occurs.

For the record I have never met or spoken with the Owner of this vehicle nor have I met or spoken with your dealership. My reason for this response is because I have read about his problem and felt confused. I understood his side but do not understand the dealerships side. I am hoping to find a mature response and not a confusing mixed up response. Thank you for any clarity you may be able to provide Oliver.
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#40 Consumer Comment

what a moron, Just admit your dealership screwed up horribly, Troy is 100% right in this situation

AUTHOR: Jeff - (U.S.A.)

Wow Oliver, could we please type in English or some form of it? Your responses to Troy's situation are a joke and from a professional point of view, you sound like a complete ass.

Just admit your dealership screwed up horribly, Troy is 100% right in this situation and you, your dealership and Chrysler are 10,000% wrong.

You have no right judging a persons character especially when you don't know the person.

The vehicle came with a manufacturers warranty whether you like it or not, which means whether or not Troy has ever had you morons perform any kind of maintenance on the vehicle or he has done all the work himself, your service dept. has to conform to the warranty he has on the vehicle and fix any problems covered under the warranty. Just because he might do all the maintenance himself, doesnt mean he doesnt take of his car.

My 2003 SRT-4 just turned 28,000 miles. I have never once had my dealer perform any regular maintenance on it. I do it all myself. Ive changed the oil every 2500 miles, replaced the air filter 3 times, pcv valve 3 times, and just did a coolant flush on it, let alone the fact that i wash and wax it once a week. Ive performed all this work myself( I work for a toyota dealer) but i guess because my dealer didnt do it, that means i abuse my car and dont take care of it, huh?

The reason i responded to this is that im currently in the process of sueing Chrysler over my SRT-4 which developed a multiple cylinder mis-fire when it was a month old and had 2500 miles on it. It now has 28,000 miles on it and ive had it to 2 different dealers a total of 9 times and the problem still isnt fixed.

I know exactly how Troy feels and beleive me, its extremely frustrating and annoying to have to deal with such a half-assed corporation.
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#41 Consumer Comment

I have never seen anyone at any level of a dealership act as you are acting.

AUTHOR: Wade - (U.S.A.)

You are quite amusing.

"IF YOU DONT BEAT THE CAR THEN WHATS THE NEED FOR MORE HORSEPOWER ? A NEON THAT DOES 0-60MPH IS 5 SECONDS ? WHAT MORE COULD A NORMAL PERSON WANT?MOST PEOPLE RELIZE WHEN THEY TAKE AN AVERAGE STREET CAR (STOCK) AND MODIFY IT THE RESULTS ARE YOU'R PROBLEM. YOU ADD HORSEPOWER AND BREAK THINGS
THE FACTORY REP DECLIND WARRANTY COVERAGE BECAUSE OF THE MODIFICATIONS. THE ONLY REASON THE STAGE ONE KIT AND BLOW-OFF VALVE WERE INSTALL IS TO GO FASTER 5 SECONDS TO 60MPH ISNT ENOUGH- GOTA GO FASTER.FASTER FASTER FASTER , WELL I HOPE YOU'R HAPPY GOING SO FAST NOW. WHY WOULD YOU NEED TO GO FASTER ? MORE POWER? WHY......."

Why would you want your food to taste better? Why would you want freedom of speech? Why would you want a movie to be better? Why would you want your house to be bigger and better? A cardboard box keep the rain off of you just fine.

Oliver, you sir, are an idiot.
I have never seen anyone at any level of a dealership act as you are acting. Its no wonder you are using a made up name to come on here and bad mouth one of your customers. Come on... be a man, step forward and use your own name. Bet you don't do it. Loser.

Oh yeah, there is now a TSB out on this particular problem of this "its only a piece junk Neon".

Where is your argument now? Oh yeah, you don't have one except to point the finger and call abuse.

Good defense.

~castrol
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#42 Consumer Comment

Oliver the phoney!

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

Wow, some people tried contacting you at Lithia today "Oliver". CHICKEN!!! You won't even post your real name. You're a real swell guy. I have forwarded all this crap to a few of the heads up at Lithia Corp. I hope you don't mind...WHO's LYING NOW???
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#43 Author of original report

Very Unprofessional Oliver

AUTHOR: Troy - (U.S.A.)

First off, please release your caps lock, it's making your posts painful to read. You may also want to double check your spelling and grammar a little better. Your lack of education is most likely what led you to be employed at Lithia of Burlingame.

You also seem to be missing a few points here, Oliver. Before the problem with the car was even found, Kevin alerted me that my powertrain warranty was now void for modifications to the vehicle. That's illegal. Now you may say that my parts aren't CARB certified and therefore not street legal, as if we'll just call it even for two wrongs. Lithia is not the smog police and the ability of my car to pass smog or where it's driven (Not how)is of no concern to Lithia or Chrysler, unless I tamper with the smog control and bring it in for warranty work because it won't pass emissions. And btw, Stage-1 passed California emissions with flying colors.

So my entire powertrain warranty is now void for no other reason than the use of Mopar Performance parts. Read the disclaimer in the Mopar catalog Oliver, see the part about the warranty? Search Google for the Magnussen-Moss Act and then read my service invoice stating that my warranty has been voided for the addition of my Stage-1 and blow off valve. These are the same exact parts that the sales staff are selling telling customers that they won't affect the warranty. Walk through the doors of the service department with these parts installed and you'll be told to pay for repairs or hit the road, right? It's called deception, something I'm sure you're very familiar with.

These are your words, Oliver, "IF IT WASNT FOR FREE AND YOU KNEW IT YOU WOULD HAVE NEVER EVEN BEEN TO THE DEALERSHIP. JUST LIKE MANY PEOPLE, WHINE AND COMPLAIN THE DEALER DOESNT TAKE CARE OF THEM.

WELL OF CORSE NOT WHEN YOU ONLY GO TO THE DEALER FOR FREE OR WARRANTY WORK."

You're digging yourself in deeper with each keystroke, Oliver. So this is how you treat people that come in for warranty work? There's no need for me to prove anything, you said it yourself. What else am I going to go to the dealership for, grocery shopping? Of course there's no reason for me to bring the car in for anything other than repairs. So you don't take care of customers that don't pay for services that should be covered? Are customers at Lithia of Burlingame expected to kneel at the feet of the service department and beg salvation just to receive service that is rightly due? Here's some more of what you had to say, "IF YOU ARE A PIECE OF GARBAGE AND ONLY COME IN FOR THE FREE WORK ,WHY SHOULD WE assist you ?"

You should assist us because it states so in the warranty contract. It doesn't matter if Osama Bin Laden comes limping in in his mini-van, it's your obligation to take care of him in a courteous manner regardless, it's called business ethics. What you practice is customer discrimination. You take care of the people "You like" and to hell with the rest, right? Snobby is the word that comes to mind.

So once again Oliver, your posts are proof of the unproffesial, condescending and rude treatment that customers of Lithia of Burlingame can expect. Your juvenile attitude is only reflecting poorly on who you are and Lithia of Burlingame.
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#44 Consumer Comment

Conditional Warranty coverage? More power?

AUTHOR: William - (U.S.A.)

To Lithia,

So what you are telling me is that I must spend money with you to get proper warranty care? Only folks who pay you to perform the scheduled maintainence will be treated fairly?

Odd, in my cars warranty book, it doens't state that I must have my service performed by a dealer to maintain my warranty. Why not, you ask? BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL TO REQUIRE THAT. Not to mention this case has nothing to do with inadequate repairs done by somebody else.

If the owner had had service to that portion of his vehicle performed by somone else, your attacks might make sense. But that is not the case, this is a case of the vehicle not being assembled properly (threadlocking compound).

Now, as to the "More power" argument, that's not valid either. since a Stage 1 kit brings the 2003 model (215hp) up to 2004 power levels (230)it's not as if he bolted on a nitrous oxide kit.

Is it possible for you folks to dicuss this rationally, without demeaning comments?

There have been at least three or more reported cases of the flywheel bolts backing out and destroying the clutch, all of them ending up being covered under warranty.

I wonder if the owner of the dealership knows of this website and the attitude exhibited by his employees?
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#45 Consumer Suggestion

Nice try Oliver... Maybe he'll learn not to fool with stuff

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

You apparently believe the mechs at the dealerships know all there is to know about repairing cars/trucks. Wrong answer. Here's a tip for all those who don't know...less than 1 out of every 20 dealership mechanics has EVER been sent for "factory" training. This means exactly what I've been saying all along. The dealership mechs are no better and no worse than one you'll find working for an independent shop. In fact, the "indie" mechs may be more qualified for no other reason than they actually have to fix the cars/trucks to get paid. They have to DIAGNOSE the problem and then relay that information to the customer in order to get the repair authorized. Dealers do warranty work and very little else. Ver little diagnosing is done. The service writer gives the paperwork to the mech who already has all the Technical Service Bulletins handy and has done the same repair over and over all day, all week, all month, all year. They work in teams and each team member does ONE job and ONLY ONE. How about that Oliver? Amazing how if your TV broke and you bought it at Circuit City, you'd take it back there while under warranty, not Joe's TV Fix-It shop down the street. Then again, why would anyone with a functioning brain go to the dealer to get their 7 year old vehicle fixed, knowing it's out of warranty. Why pay dealership rates when you can get it done for alot less at the mom/pop shop?? Yes folks, the average age of a car going to a repair shop is 7 years old. And I won't even drag on about the inane statement about dealerships not having high repair bills. As for going to an "indie" shop for a free transmission or other repair, DUH!!! It happens every day. They are called WARRANTY REPAIRS Oliver. Just like everything you do at a dealership. If a water pump I install goes bad during the warranty period(12 months/12000 miles), I get to do the job over again for FREE. I get reimbursed by NAPA for the entire amount, just like the dealership gets reimbursed, about 60% of the actual labor time, by the factory. Of course, I've never seen any shop using the great "genuine factory" parts for the majority of repairs, yet I see lots of deliveries going to the dealerships by NAPA, CarQuest, AutoZone, Advance, Advantage, etc. I wonder why, if those aren't good parts. Wait, I know. Because they really are good, and you just want to talk alot of smack without having a clue. Keep in mind the perts you claim to have been so horrible are in fact, "Genuine MOPAR parts", you know, FACTORY stuff. About the only thing you got right was the part about Troy abusing his car. He broke it, not Chrysler. I don't believe a word about his claim that the turbo only added 25 horepower. If it did, what a waste of money. I can add over 200 HP for under $200 with NoX. Maybe he'll learn not to fool with stuff untill it's out of warranty and cheaper to fix AT AN INDEPENDENT SHOP!!!
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#46 Consumer Suggestion

Had the same bolt problem here in Germany

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

Oliver, you have no clue as to how a transmission works do you?

I had the same problem on my '04 SRT-4 as Troy. After 3000 miles, the bolts backed out and destroyed the clutch. It was repaired for free under warranty because there WAS a TSB out on it. Irregardless of how a car is driven, if there is a TSB out on a specific problem, it gets a "at-no-cost-to-the-owner" warranty repair. Also, driving this car over here in Germany DEMANDS you "get on it" in order to survive getting on a German Autobahn. The car performs very well over here in Germany.

Also, Oliver, perhaps you should go back to school and learn a few things. Like proper use of the English language. If you can't properly spell common words, then why should anyone read what you say and take you seriously?
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#47 Consumer Suggestion

Had the same bolt problem here in Germany

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

Oliver, you have no clue as to how a transmission works do you?

I had the same problem on my '04 SRT-4 as Troy. After 3000 miles, the bolts backed out and destroyed the clutch. It was repaired for free under warranty because there WAS a TSB out on it. Irregardless of how a car is driven, if there is a TSB out on a specific problem, it gets a "at-no-cost-to-the-owner" warranty repair. Also, driving this car over here in Germany DEMANDS you "get on it" in order to survive getting on a German Autobahn. The car performs very well over here in Germany.

Also, Oliver, perhaps you should go back to school and learn a few things. Like proper use of the English language. If you can't properly spell common words, then why should anyone read what you say and take you seriously?
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#48 Consumer Suggestion

Had the same bolt problem here in Germany

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

Oliver, you have no clue as to how a transmission works do you?

I had the same problem on my '04 SRT-4 as Troy. After 3000 miles, the bolts backed out and destroyed the clutch. It was repaired for free under warranty because there WAS a TSB out on it. Irregardless of how a car is driven, if there is a TSB out on a specific problem, it gets a "at-no-cost-to-the-owner" warranty repair. Also, driving this car over here in Germany DEMANDS you "get on it" in order to survive getting on a German Autobahn. The car performs very well over here in Germany.

Also, Oliver, perhaps you should go back to school and learn a few things. Like proper use of the English language. If you can't properly spell common words, then why should anyone read what you say and take you seriously?
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#49 UPDATE Employee

DONT GO TO DEALER FOR SERVICE IF IT AINT FOR FREE

AUTHOR: OLIVER - (U.S.A.)

1ST VISIT. THOUGHT IT WAS FOR FREE.
IF IT WASNT FOR FREE AND YOU KNEW IT YOU WOULD HAVE NEVER EVEN BEEN TO THE DEALERSHIP. JUST LIKE MANY PEOPLE, WHINE AND COMPLAIN THE DEALER DOESNT TAKE CARE OF THEM.

WELL OF CORSE NOT WHEN YOU ONLY GO TO THE DEALER FOR FREE OR WARRANTY WORK.

IF YOU ARE A GOOD CUSTOMER- THE DEALER WILL GO TO THE PLATE AND TAKE CARE OF YOU.

LIKE MOST UNINFORMED CUSTOMERS THEY THINK ITS CHEAPER TO VISIT THE INDEPENDANT SHOPS AND GIVE THEM ALL THER MONEY , TIL SOMETHING BREAKS- THEN THEY SEND YOU RIGHT BACK TO THE DEALER TO FIX IT FOR FREE.

I CANT COUNT THE INDEPENDANT SHOPS THAT MISDIAGNOSE AND POORLY REPAIR/BUTCHER PEOPLES CARS, TAKE ALL THERE MONEY AND THEN STIL NOT KNOWING HOW TO FIX THE CAR- SEND THE OWNER TO THE DEALER, THEN THE OWNER IS PIST OFF AT THE DEALER WHEN WE NEED $ TO DIAG/$ TO FIX WHAT THE BUTCHER SHOPS CANT FIX.

JUST LIKE THE PEOPLE WE TEL THEY NEED TO SERVICE THER VEHICLE/ THEN THEY DECLIND IT AND TAKE IT ELSEWHERE - THEY BUTCHER THE CAR AND THE OWNER IS LEFT WITH THE BILL.

WHICH IS CHEAPER AT THE END. DO ALL THE SUGGESTED SERVICES AT THE DEALER- LET THE DEALER TAKE CARE OF YOUR VEHICLE- WHEN YOUR VEHICLE BREAKS DOWN AND YOUR OUTSIDE OF WARRANTY THE DEALER WILL NOT EVEN ASK YOU FOR THE $, WE ARE HAPPY TO ASSIST WITH GOODWILL.

IF YOU ARE A GOOD CUSTOMER WE WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU .

IF YOU ARE A PIECE OF GARBAGE AND ONLY COME IN FOR THE FREE WORK ,WHY SHOULD WE assist you ? GO BACK TO THE INDEPENDANT SHOPS WHERE YOU SPENT ALL YOUR CASH, ASK THEM FOR A FREE TRANSMISSION OR ENGINE.

HELL EVEN ASK THEM FOR A FREE POWER WINDOW. YOU SPEND A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS TO MAINTAIN YOUR VEHICLE OVER 3-5 YRS AT THE DEALER AND YOU WONT HAVE TO WORI ABOUT BROKEN PARTS AND BIG BILLS.

IF YOU DEVELOPE A GOOD REPORE WITH A DEALER THEY WILL BE HAPPY TO ASSIST YOU.THIS IS SOMETHING MOST PEOPLE CAN NOT COMPREHEND.

KEEP VISITING JIFFYLUBE AND WHEN YOUR CAR FALLS APART BE PREPARED . THE DEALER ISNT GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR YOU.
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#50 UPDATE Employee

BROKEN NEON

AUTHOR: OLIVER - (U.S.A.)

YOU BROKE THE 1ST CLUTCH KIT,
YOU'L BREAK ANOTHER. DONT CRY ABOUT IT. JUST PAY AND KEEP PLAYIN.NO MANNER HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT.

THERE REALLY ISNT ANYTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

LITHIA TOLD YOU PAY THE BILL.
CHYRLSER TOLD YOU PAY THE BILL.
AND YOU DID.YEA, TROY IT IS ONLY A NEON.

IF YOU DONT BEAT THE CAR THEN WHATS THE NEED FOR MORE HORSEPOWER ? A NEON THAT DOES 0-60MPH IS 5 SECONDS ? WHAT MORE COULD A NORMAL PERSON WANT?MOST PEOPLE RELIZE WHEN THEY TAKE AN AVERAGE STREET CAR (STOCK) AND MODIFY IT THE RESULTS ARE YOU'R PROBLEM. YOU ADD HORSEPOWER AND BREAK THINGS
THE FACTORY REP DECLIND WARRANTY COVERAGE BECAUSE OF THE MODIFICATIONS. THE ONLY REASON THE STAGE ONE KIT AND BLOW-OFF VALVE WERE INSTALL IS TO GO FASTER 5 SECONDS TO 60MPH ISNT ENOUGH- GOTA GO FASTER.FASTER FASTER FASTER , WELL I HOPE YOU'R HAPPY GOING SO FAST NOW. WHY WOULD YOU NEED TO GO FASTER ? MORE POWER? WHY.......

IF THE FACTORY REP HADNT DECLIND THE THREADLOCKING OF THE FLEXPLATE BOLTS YOU STILL WOULD HAVE PAID FOR THE CLUTCH. THE TWO ARE NOT RELATED- AS MUCH AS U TRY TO TWIST THINGS, YOU BROKE THE CLUTCH- THE FLEXPLATE BOLTS BEING SLIGHTLY LOOSE DID NOT CAUSE THE FAILURE.

TAKE IT EASY ON THIS LITTLE CAR IT IS ONLY A NEON. GOOD LUCK I WISH I HAD THE TIME TO INVEST INTO WHINNING AS MUCH AS YOU ABOUT $1800- THE BILL WAS PAID, CHRYSLER TOLD YOU TO POUND SALT . SO GET ON WITH YOU'R LIFE.
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#51 Consumer Comment

HOW DARE YOU!!! You Lithia guys are idiots

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

Oliver, how dare you even think you know that this car has been abused. Have you even looked at the car? This car has been babied. I have lived with Troy for over a year, and was present when the salesman was "selling" him the Mopar Mods. Troy loves that car. He is in his 30's, not a 16 year old punk. This car gets more attention then I do (and we're engaged!) You Lithia guys are idiots. If you are so sure that adding a few horsepower to the car caused the problems he had, then why don't you follow the federal law (magnussen-moss act) and PROVE IT before you void someone's warranty. I've been listening the whole time you guys have been jerking him off. I know when what was said, and I have had it. How dare you call Troy a liar. You go ahead and try to cover you butt, and avoid the fact that Chrysler screwed up and made a faulty part (clutch kit). Its only a neon, huh? A neon that was MARKETED as a performance car...hmmm...Talk about liars!
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#52 Consumer Comment

I have been following this

AUTHOR: Wade - (U.S.A.)

I have been following this saga for months.

I have to admit, I am VERY disappointed in Lithia's response, attitude, and their business ethics. I to have a few modifications to my vehicle and have yet to experience any problems with my car.

However, Troy's flywheel bolt problem is not the only one to exist. This turned out to be a pretty common occurance to MANY of the 2003 SRT's on our site. I find it comical, that as a simple website administrator, backyard mechanic and simpleton, that I knew more about this vehicle, and was actually able to tell Troy what the problem was, and why it happened than the techs that were physically working on it.

Please Olivlir, post up more of your drivel. It does not fly here. I think most people are intelligent enoug to realize that even the HARDEST driven cars won't suffer from flywheel bolts backing out and destroying the clutch.

I am also willing to bet you didn't hand over the replaced parts, and that those parts were promptly detroyed.

See, its not just a simple little Neon. Mine has held up to 20,000 miles of daily driving, traffic, track conditions and general abuse, and it has held up GRANDLY.

So spew your crap somewhere else. The only thing anybody wants to see from you is a check, and an apology for treating a customer the way you have.
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#53 Author of original report

What am I lying about?

AUTHOR: Troy - (U.S.A.)

Oliver, what exactly have I said that's untruthful? If you're implying that I've made this up or been untruthful, please clarify. I was told by the service advisor, Kevin, that the flywheel bolts had come loose, consequently causing the damage to the clutch. I understand that the clutch only carries a 12/12000 warranty, but I was told that the backed out flywheel bolts were the contributing factor to this. I had to fork over close to $1000 just for you guys to find out what was wrong.

My work invoice states that my powertrain warranty is void due to parts that are for offroad use only, not abuse. My car is far from abused, so how are you coming to this conclusion? Is this "abuse" just another one of the several excuses you guys have already fed me? First it was that the blow-off valve changed the configuration of the turbo, then it was the added power from the Stage-1 must have stressed the balance shaft. The documented reason on my work invoice states "Powertrain warranty has been voided due to installation of parts not legal for street use." So now that you've seen the error in this, you're saying it's because of abuse. Wow, you guys sure are undecisive. I guess if one reason doesn't fit the excuse, you'll pull 10 more out of your hat until you get a fit.

Maybe you should refer to the Mopar catalog where you guys are selling these parts out of. There's a little disclaimer about how Mopar Performance parts will not void the powertrain warranty unless the car is used for compettition or the parts create the failure. So why does my paperwork state that my powertrain warranty is void for no other reason than the use of Mopar Performance upgrades, not abuse? Do you ride with me on a daily basis? I drive like an animal? Care to back this up? Maybe you should pay more attention to the employees at the dealership squeeling the tires on customer's cars than speculating about how I drive. Maybe your shady sales staff shouldn't sell these Neons as performance cars if they can't hold up to their name. What does SRT stand for again? Btw, how much is this "Massive horsepower" you speak of? The car came stock with 215 hp. The Stage-1 adds 25 hp to the equation. If you consider 240 hp to be "massive", than you probably consider KIA's too powerful to be street driven.

As far as the voiding of my warranty, you guys told me it was void at least a day or two prior to the district rep even looking at it. My warranty being voided for no other reason than the installation of the Mopar Stage-1 and blow off valve is in direct conflict with my warranty contract, federal law and the warranty info printed in your catalog. Your post spoke volumes of the attitude at Lithia of Burlingame and the way customers are treated. Way to represent your company! I should have paid more attention to the picketers with the rat signs I had to walk through before I bought the car. I think they were onto something...
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#54 Consumer Suggestion

Warranty

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

In your owners manual there will be a arbitration card fill it out (make a copy) send it in this will force the manufacture to act. Have a copy of all your work orders (dealership Service people are useless)prepare your case. If not go to another dealership ask them for a arbitration card they will ask you if it involves their store, tell them no and who they will gladly give you a card.

When the dealership informs you the Factory service representative will inspect your vehicle "ASK FOR THEIR NAME/NUMBER, CONTACT THAT REPRESENTATIVE, SCHEDULE AN APPOINTMENT, TAKE A CAMERA/CAMCORDER WITH YOU. WHEN YOU MEET WITH THE FACTORY REPRESENTATIVE ASK FOR A CARD, EXPLAIN TO THEM YOU ARE GOING TO RECORD THE EVENTS "DO NOT ASK FOR PERMISSION" JUST DO IT EVEN IF THEY OBJECT.
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#55 UPDATE Employee

Liar

AUTHOR: Oliver - (U.S.A.)

Poor troy thought he could modify his neon , add massive horsepower withnon street leagal parts , break the clutch kit (has no bearing on the loose flexplate bolts)
the clutch kit was broken inside from abuse.
not the loose flex plate bolts.
the clutch kit on this vehicle carries a 12month 12000 mile warranty, after almost 20k miles of troys abuse - it couldnt take it anymore and gave up- physicaly broken!
i will admit these neon srt-4 dont have a heavy duty clutch, but if the driver hadnt modified the vehicle and added horsepower to the already overpowered engine/trans-clutch combo-and drove like an animal, we wouldnt have this problem...
take it easy troy . its only a neon.
the warranty claim was declind by chyrsler's district mgr. not lithia dodge of burlingame.
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