• Report: #31364

Complaint Review: Lithia Toyota of Sprinfield

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  • Submitted: Sat, September 28, 2002
  • Updated: Tue, May 20, 2003

  • Reported By:Eugene OR
Lithia Toyota of Sprinfield
863 Main Street Springfield, Oregon U.S.A.

Lithia Toyota of Sprinfield ripoff Springfield Oregon *UPDATE ..Toyota "Certified" nothing

*Consumer Comment: Thank you, "P" in Oregon

*Consumer Suggestion: Amy, the may be a statute of limitations, such as one year

*Author of original report: Please call your lender and get info regarding purchase

*Consumer Comment: lithia dodge just as bad

*UPDATE Employee: Give me a break!!!

*Consumer Suggestion: Aimee this "Powerbooking" can stop real fast if one thing happens.

*Author of original report: Auto Lenders say "stacking the books" , "kinking" or "powerbooking common among auto dealers

*0: Lithia Fraud - padding the KBB to the Credit Union

*0: Lithia Fraud - padding the KBB to the Credit Union

*0: Steel Styled Wheels

*0: Lithia Toyota getting a bit nervous?

*0: Lithia Toyota getting a bit nervous?

*0: Toyota "Certified" nothing more than a marketing hoax

*Consumer Comment: Thank You

*Consumer Suggestion: Don in Kentucky

*Consumer Comment: Don in Kentucky ? Why would you write such a nasty reponse? Are you working for Toyota?

*Consumer Suggestion: You buy USED you get USED

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Customer (Aimee Phillips) 07/17/2002 05:32 PM
On Saturday July 6, 2002 I purchased a Toyota Certified 2002 used (6000miles) dbl cab 4D Tacoma pick up. I was a return customer, having purchased a standard new 2001 Tacoma pick up last September.

On Monday, July 8, 2002 we noticed that the power window buttons were extremely hot to the touch. I called the Springfield Lithia dealership and brought it in on Wednesday morning, July 10 at 9 a.m. for service.
My son and I took a walk for the 45 minute wait estimate the service desk person gave us. Upon our return, the service person told us, "We can't work on those windows...they aren't Toyota windows - neither is the keyless entry." When I told the service person that I had no idea they weren't factory, he said, "Talk to your salesman."

I did that. Shane seemed confused that service wouldn't work on the windows and said that he'd "get back to me." I explained to Shane that he had overcharged me for the vehicle, (27,000) and that I had purchased the Toyota 100,000 warranty under the assumption that I was getting a factory, certified, "like new" car and that Shane did not inform me that there were aftermarket windows/locks.
That was last Wednesday. As noted in my planner, I proceeded to call Shane for the rest of Wednesday and Thursday, finally contacting the sales manager, Vince, when Shane did not return my calls. I spoke with Vince on Friday morning as I traveled down the I-5 freeway at 65 mph.

Approximately 20 minutes (about 9-9:30 a.m.)after hanging up, every engine light in the vehicle came on and a high whining sound pierced the cab. I immediately pulled over and turned off the car. Smoke or steam came from the hood. The area is heavily wooded, there are no houses, and there is no cell phone service.

After about 40 minutes, an Oregon Highway Patrolman pulled up behind me. After attempting to maintain my composure for the last 40 minutes, intermittently crying, I completely lost it. The officer, Kevin Bennett, was incredibly kind. He called his dispatcher, requested she call Lithia Toyota to send a tow truck & tell them to arrange a rental car, and asked her to call the party I was on my way to meet 2 hours away to let them know I was on the side of the road. He reported that there was some kind of fluid all over the vehicle's hood and down the sides of the vehicle.

Officer Bennett said that I'd done the right thing to stay in the car and that he's been a partolman for 25 years and there are more dangers on I-5 than the average citizen imagines. He acknowledged that the situation must have been very frightening and that I was lucky to be safe.

He then drove me south to Roseburg to the Lithia Ford dealership, where an Enterprise employee picked me up and took me back to his office to fill out info for the rental. I was put into a tiny ford escort for 9.99 a day. I asked the employee if I could get something a little more comparable to what I'd been driving and he said that he had asked Lithia Toyota and they'd said, "No."
A complete mess, still very shook up from my time on the side of the road, I headed north for the Lithia Toyota dealership.

When I arrived, I was still upset, but still had it in my silly little head that the dealership would handle the situation appropriately.

Instead, Shane and Vince, completely oblivious to the stress of what I'd just experienced, attempted to put me into more expensive vehicle. They actually sat me in Shane's cubicle (I didn't look so hot to prospective customers) and started haggling over price, Shane going back and forth between the cubicle and Vince. Amazed, I explained to Shane that I did not want to make a deal, did not want a more expensive vehicle, I wanted my original 2001 pick up back and would never get into the 2002 vehicle again.

Shane went to see Vince, and came back and said, "We can't undo a deal. Why don't you go home and calm down and call when you feel better." Only a pat on the head could have made the experience completely patronizing.
Instead, I went home, called a friend in the car business, and he said, yes they can undo the deal, we do it all the time. Call an attorney.

I spoke with the attorney on Monday. When I left his office, I attempted once and for all to deal with Lithia. First I spoke with the service department. The man I spoke with said that it was some type of bolt in the engine which broke off, causing a belt to come off. He said that it was either a factory defect or someone had over tightened the bolt. I then spoke with Shane who asked me if I'd heard the "good news." I asked him what that was and he repeated the broken bolt info the service department had just explained to me. I explained that I didn't see how that was good news and asked him again about the nondisclosure regarding the aftermarket windows.

Shane's response was the final straw: "I didn't say they were Toyota windows, I said that they were power windows." This attitude is unbelievable. Basically,

Lithia is treating me poorly for trusting them, the very thing they want you to do when you walk in the door. I'm actually impressed with their ability to go from appearing to be your "best friend" to your worst enemy within hours.

I insisted that Lithia give me a pick-up as a rental because that is what I'd bought. My warranty provides up to 35.00 day for a rental - - I do not appreciate the fact that, after my safety was already compromised on the side of I-5 on Friday morning, I was then put into a tiny car to ride back up to Springfield, Lithia denying the coverage my warranty provides. I ended up over at the Springfield Enterprise to switch cars and commented that the pick up was red, (pretty much the car color I dislike the most), and the Enterprise salesman commented, "I'd just be grateful to get a truck."

I found the comment interesting as I knew Shane had called over for the vehicle switch. Here is what I would have been grateful for: A 27,000 dollar 2002 Toyota Pickup with all factory parts that did not break down, stranding me on the side of the I-5 freeway. For 27,000 I don't expect to break down anywhere, expect to have all Toyota parts covered by the warranty, and I expect to absolutely love my car and receive excellent customer service.

Now, I will be grateful to simply never deal with Lithia again.

I have spent everyday recounting this story to everyone I see and warning them, "don't shop at Lithia."

My attorney is waiting until Friday to send a letter detailing my expectations in this deal gone sour. It is my hope that this situation will be handled without my attorney's involvement.

Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Aimee D. Phillips

9-28-02 This situation has yet to be resolved. The
vehicle is still sitting on Lithia's lot. They have repaired it and want me to come pick it up. I don't want it. I have since purchased a different vehicle (new) through an online car buying service (wonderful experience - highly recommend it to anyone looking to buy a car - NO hassles!).

Lithia sold my 2001 trade in. I am working with an attorney in hopes of resolving this situation. I am also wondering if the bolt breaking on the crank/pulley (service said this is what happened) is a problem anyone else has had

Aimee
Eugene, Oregon

Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Toyota Dealers and Products

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/28/2002 01:44 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Lithia-Toyota-of-Sprinfield/Springfield-Oregon-97477/Lithia-Toyota-of-Sprinfield-ripoff-Springfield-Oregon-UPDATE-Toyota-Certified-nothing-31364. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Thank you, "P" in Oregon

AUTHOR: Aimee - (U.S.A.)

Yes, I have filed the lawsuit. Now we are researching all the other states where Lithia operates - and there is actually an employee plaintiff (former finance manager) here in Oregon that has filed a lawsuit against Lithia for asking him to falsify credit app's as well as add non-existent accessories to used cars in order to make sure that they would "book out" at inflated prices to the lender.

I hope that anyone reading this with any information surrounding complaints/lawsuits involving Lithia will respond on to this report.
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#2 Consumer Suggestion

Amy, the may be a statute of limitations, such as one year

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

Have you filed your lawsuit? You said you bought the car on July 6, 2002. Often times you have only one year to file a lawsuit.
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#3 Author of original report

Please call your lender and get info regarding purchase

AUTHOR: Aimee - (U.S.A.)

Tammy,

Thank you for your response to my report. I love the two car dealership employee responses as they confirm exactly what I'm saying: there is no such thing as a "certified" used vehicle, it is nothing but a profit boosting marketing hoax by the manufacturers and the dealers.

I am hoping that you will call the lender that funded your van and ask for a copy of the contract as well as the Kelley Blue Book that Lithia submitted to the lender, as 1)the contract may have been altered by the dealership, and 2)there may be accessories added to the Blue Book that don't exist on your vehicle -- both would mean FRAUD, and a leg to stand on for you.

I requested a public records search on Lithia in Oregon, (I am also doing the same in all states that Lithia operates in), and received a huge box full of complaints to the Attorney General -- think of how many other people that have been ripped off never complained -- Lithia is getting away with Fraud, etc., with nothing more than a slap on the hand from the state of Oregon.

Also, check out the Portland Business Journal for info on an ex-Lithia employee that is suing for $4 million because he refused to take part in altering contracts, falsifying Blue Book, etc.

Lithia is a publicly traded company, so even the SEC will eventually be interested in their "business tactics."

To the Editor: This is a great website -- thank you for providing such a great forum!
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#4 Consumer Comment

lithia dodge just as bad

AUTHOR: Tammy - (U.S.A.)

I bought a used (1996) Dodge Grand Caravan ES at Lithia Dodge in July of 2000. I have had a similar experience. When we went to test drive the van we noticed the battery was dead. They said no big deal. That was the begining of a whole bucket of problems. We got their "Gold Warranty" because the van had less than 50,000 miles on it. Good thing because the van came back the very weekend we bought it when the battery would not hold a charge. The tail lights keep staying on, the air bag light would not go off, the windshield wipers keep coming on, and we have had 5 recalls so far this year. Lithia has been of no help. These car dealers are not as dumb as everyone wants to make them out to be. Slimy and low down, but not dumb. They were our best friends until we had a problem. Lithia is out to screw you on any make or model of vehicle. Watch out. Good luck Aimee. I hope you nail them to the wall.
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#5 UPDATE Employee

Give me a break!!!

AUTHOR: Amy - (U.S.A.)

I have worked for a dealership for 4 years in the service department. This situation is one of the most common "complaints" that are lodged.

A customer buys a used vehicle and then complains later that something has gone "wrong". Or that they have been intentionally ripped off!

I agree whole-heartedly with Don from Kentucky.
When you buy used expect used!!

The dealership has absolutely no way to know what the previous owner did to the vehicle or what they did not do (maintenance). When the dealership peforms the used vehicle inspection they check over all of the obvious things visible, drive the vehicle to make sure that there are no weird noises or any problems with safety issues etc.. but they cannot guess at what may go wrong after someone has purchased it. That is why they offer USED CAR warranties.
As far as salesman being in the know about some kind of after market accessories that the previous owner has installed that is ludicris.
They can only disclose things that they are aware of.. How many salesman do you know that are mechanically inclined?? Im sure its pretty limited. How many of them are at the factory where the vehicle is assembled?? would you be able to tell after market windows from original equipment??

My suggestion to you is cut your losses and move on.. Why prolong the "hurt" and "fear" for being stranded on the side of the road, or focus on the intimidation you felt at the dealership with all the "men", or the alleged "lies" that you were told when you bought the truck. Grow up and learn from your mistakes. You think you are the only one that has ever experienced being stranded on the side of the road?? Do you think that you are the only women that walks into a dealership and feels that you are the underdog because of being a woman??

Its the facts of life sister! You've already made your decision to never buy another Toyota, or buy from that dealership again, are you really going to gain anything from pursuing or antagonizing the situation?? Get a hobby.
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#6 Consumer Suggestion

Aimee this "Powerbooking" can stop real fast if one thing happens.

AUTHOR: The Great Thorn - Rip-off Report Consumer Advocate - (U.S.A.)

Aimee The problem is banks are not willing to except the fact that they are dealing with CAR DEALERS. Banks are regulated. They have guide lines that they must follow.

Most bank employees have never sold cars before and they have no clue as to how dirty a car dealer and their TRAINED LOT SHARKS can be.

Car dealers hire companies to come in and train their "Green Peas" on how to become "LOT SHARKS" Once a LOT SHARK gets a good grip of you, the car buyer, they will chew you to the bone! They do this because they have been programed to do just that.

Their main goal is to squeeze all lookers until they "POP or DROP".

Here would be a fast way to kill this so called "Powerbooking"

Car buyer goes to dealer. Car buyer hooks up with "Trained Lot Shark" car buyer and Lot Shark find a car the buyer would like to take home. Car buyer and Trained Lot Shark and Sales manager all agree to the numbers. Car buyer is brought to the dealer's F&I department for the signing of the deceptive documentation.

No bank should EVER approve car deal until bank calls car buyer at the buyer's home number and asks a few questions.

Like "Hey Mr car buyer do you like the car?
Hey Mr car buyer Can you tell me the list of options that your new car has on it?
Did you have a trade?
Did you put any money down when you bought this car, as in write the dealer a check or give them any cash?

We must also not forget about the big scam of Trained Lot Sharks doing what is called Padding the buyer's income.
To kill this deception. Bank employee asks the buyer to tell bank how much do you REALLY make on your job. What did you write on your credit application at the dealer when you filled it out about your income?

Car dealers do this padding of the buyer's income to make everything look good to the bank. If a buyer has real good credit, say a Fair Isaac Score of 700 or better, most banks will not double check the buyer's income. As in a simple phone call!

If the bank at this time finds that the sucky car dealer has lied to the bank, then Bank should decline the loan and report dirty dealer to that state's Banking commissioner's office.

This will never happen because most banks love the big money in profitable car loans that car dealers send their way.

Banks should also ask the buyer did you sign the contact first or did the dealer's F&I people have you sign second, under someone else?

Car dealers like to make the buyer sometimes think they are the buyer, But the dealer will sometimes have the cosigner sign first. Now they are the buyer, and the buyer is now the cosigner.

Car dealers want to get the consumer with the better credit rating to sign first. Even if the person with the better credit thinks they are cosigning.

No car dealer ever wants the buyer and the bank to have a chat before the paper is hung. In other words, the bank has paid the dealer in full for the loan.

Car dealers do not want the banks employees to slip up and tell the buyer this,

Hey Mr car buyer I see that you agreed to an interest rate of 12%. We told the dealer that we would approve a loan for you at 7%. Now the buyer would know that the dealer's F&I people Ripped them OFF. This is called "Point Packing"

So to you happy car buyers. If you signed a contract and you agreed to 12% don't think this is what the dealer got you approved for.

They get you approved for the lowest rate and get you to agree to the highest rate. Then car dealer scoops the difference. Most all banks will let a car dealer do the above to you if you agreed and signed the dotted line.

As far as I am concerned. No bank has the right to crybaby about car dealer deception of any kind, if they never call the buyer before approving the car loan.
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#7 Author of original report

Auto Lenders say "stacking the books" , "kinking" or "powerbooking common among auto dealers

AUTHOR: Aimee - (U.S.A.)

I have now filed a fraud suit in this case. Since contacting auto lenders to inquire as to whether or not they have ever experienced a dealership adding non-existent options/accessories to a Kelley Blue Book when submitting a vehicle for financing, the response has been a resounding "YES."

It is, in fact, so common, that there are names for it: Kinking, Stacking the Deck, or Powerbooking. One credit union lender told me that the joke among auto lenders is that "every car has premium wheels and tires..." The only way this fraud is usually discovered is if the vehicle is repossessed. This is when the lender becomes angry about it as the cost of the non-existent accessories/options will become their financial loss. If the vehicle is never repossed, you and I, the consumers, pay for the non-existent accessories/options without even knowing it. Remember, auto lenders will only finance the car at a certain amount and they base their decision on the KBB or other pricing sources.

Moral to this part of the story: use your own financing, and check to make sure that the lender has the correct information for the KBB appraisal.
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#8 0

Lithia Fraud - padding the KBB to the Credit Union

AUTHOR: - ()

Lithia added these non-existent options to the Kelley Blue Book submitted to Oregon Metro Credit Union:



Cruise Control

Tow package

Sliding Rear Window

Bed Liner



Premium Sound (according to KBB, this means something other than the manufacturer's system, i.e. Boze, etc.)

Premium Wheels - (we photographed the wheels - they are Toyota upgrade#1 according to the Tacoma brochure - painted steel, second to the cheapest factory standard and NOT premium according to KBB, I know because I emailed them and asked).



Oversize, off-road tires - the tires on the truck are P265/R70 Bridgestone tires - bigger than what comes standard, but not oversize off road - the credit union rep confronted them with all this and they intimidated him, telling him the wheels/tires are premium and that they would be happy to install the other options while he waited. He declined, but is now backpeddling on the credit union wanting to get involved.



All of these "options" total over $2000.00, pushing the vehicle into a higher approval bracket for financing. I must admit it's nice to finally have the lying worms flat out on this one, but I still have work to do with Toyota Motor Corp. regarding the certified-used nonsense -
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#9 0

Lithia Fraud - padding the KBB to the Credit Union

AUTHOR: - ()

Lithia added these non-existent options to the Kelley Blue Book submitted to Oregon Metro Credit Union:



Cruise Control

Tow package

Sliding Rear Window

Bed Liner

Premium Sound (according to KBB, this means something other than the manufacturer's system, i.e. Boze, etc.)

Premium Wheels - (we photographed the wheels - they are Toyota upgrade#1 according to the Tacoma brochure - painted steel, second to the cheapest factory standard and NOT premium according to KBB, I know because I emailed them and asked).



Oversize, off-road tires - the tires on the truck are P265/R70 Bridgestone tires - bigger than what comes standard, but not oversize off road - the credit union rep confronted them with all this and they intimidated him, telling him the wheels/tires are premium and that they would be happy to install the other options while he waited. He declined, but is now backpeddling on the credit union wanting to get involved.



All of these "options" total over $2000.00, pushing the vehicle into a higher approval bracket for financing. I must admit it's nice to finally have the lying worms flat out on this one, but I still have work to do with Toyota Motor Corp. regarding the certified-used nonsense -
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#10 0

Steel Styled Wheels

AUTHOR: - ()

Found out for sure, from another Toyota dealership, that the wheels on the truck in question are not "premium wheels," but in fact are steel styled wheels valued (new) at $350.00 total retail (280.00 invoice) - nowhere near the $800.00 claimed by the dealership. So these slimey little worms lied bald faced to the C.U. rep - not surprising. It does seem that this particular dealership is quite brazen when it comes to dishonesty -- I think that they believe they are untouchable.



The Toyota scheduled maintenance guide also states "non-genuine Toyota parts - and any damage or failures resulting from their use - are not covered by any Toyota Warranty." That sounds, to me, like the truck I purchased absolutely does not qualify as a "Certified Used Toyota" according TO Toyota, as the certified program sells cars based on the 128 point inspection (seems the dealership would notice aftermarket parts during this) and the "great" warranty coverage.



I encourage anyone experiencing any sort of problem with any dealership - especially Lithia owned - to ask the company that financed their used car for a copy of the original Kelley Blue Book that was submitted for financing as the equipment/options listed may differ from what is actually on the vehicle. I have a strong "gut" feeling that this particular company pads blue books as a norm and I think that they are feeling pretty untouchable. Everything I've experienced with this company is in violation of the Unfair Trade Practices Act and I believe that Toyota Corp is just as guilty as the dealership of these practices because so far, in this case, Toyota has taken no stand against the actions of this dealership.
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#11 0

Lithia Toyota getting a bit nervous?

AUTHOR: - ()

Yesterday I received a call from the Credit Union representative that financed the truck. It turns out that there are definitely "options" on the blue book that Litha submitted to the credit union when securing inital financing for the truck that do NOT exist on the truck: Premium wheels, rear sliding window, tow package (ya, right on a four cylinder engine), and bed liner.



The C.U. rep took the truck over to Lithia and they denied that the wheels weren't premium, and offered to put the non-existent options on the truck while he waited - he declined the offer, saying he would need to speak with me.



Then they said they would check blue book on the truck and offered to buy it for $21,000 (5,000 less than I paid (I know, I am a complete sucker). Again, the C.U. rep said he'd check with me.



I've turned in all info to the Oregon Atty General and will be forwarding the non-existent option info also. I believe, whether it's $2,000. or $800., it qualifies as flat out fraud. I also believe that any amount multiplied by the thousands (millions) of Lithia customers qualifies as big $$$$ fraud and a calculated, company objective to commit fraud.



No wonder Lithia is so profitable - I have a really strong feeling that if every transaction Lithia has been a part of were audited, non-existent options are probably the norm, not the exception. Toyota - stand behind your customers, not your dishonest dealerships.
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#12 0

Lithia Toyota getting a bit nervous?

AUTHOR: - ()

Yesterday I received a call from the Credit Union representative that financed the truck. It turns out that there are definitely "options" on the blue book that Litha submitted to the credit union when securing inital financing for the truck that do NOT exist on the truck: Premium wheels, rear sliding window, tow package (ya, right on a four cylinder engine), and bed liner. The C.U. rep took the truck over to Lithia and they denied that the wheels weren't premium, and offered to put the non-existent options on the truck while he waited - he declined the offer, saying he would need to speak with me. Then they said they would check blue book on the truck and offered to buy it for $21,000 (5,000 less than I paid (I know, I am a complete sucker). Again, the C.U. rep said he'd check with me.



I've turned in all info to the Oregon Atty General and will be forwarding the non-existent option info also. I believe, whether it's $2,000. or $800., it qualifies as flat out fraud. I also believe that any amount multiplied by the thousands (millions) of Lithia customers qualifies as big $$$$ fraud and a calculated, company objective to commit fraud. No wonder Lithia is so profitable - I have a really strong feeling that if every transaction Lithia has been a part of were audited, non-existent options are probably the norm, not the exception. Toyota - stand behind your customers, not your dishonest dealerships.
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#13 0

Toyota "Certified" nothing more than a marketing hoax

AUTHOR: - ()

I am in the process of getting the information that Lithia Toyota of Springfield submitted to the credit union that financed this vehicle. It's possible that the dealership misrepresented the car to the credit union in order to get an inflated price financed. So far I know that they said the vehicle had a sliding rear window (not true) and listed the power windows/locks (I thought that the aftermarket power windows and locks would lower the vehicle value - does anyone know?) -- I think there may be other inaccuracies.



Wouldn't this constitute fraud? In the meantime, an email from Toyota said that it's left up to each dealership whether or not they will "certify" a vehicle with non-toyota parts - This means, that "certified" means absolutely zero
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#14 Consumer Comment

Thank You

AUTHOR: Aimee - ()

Troy,



Thank you for this information. Do you have any idea how I can get it in writing? At this point, I don't trust Toyota to give me a straight answer. If I can get this in writing this will definitely help my case.



I searched Toyota's website and any other sites regarding Toyota Certified, but didn't find the info regarding aftermarket parts.



Thanks for your time!



Aimee



Dear Ripoff Report - I hope it's alright to repsond to this advice - is there another spot I'm supposed to do this?
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#15 Consumer Suggestion

Don in Kentucky

AUTHOR: Troy - ()

First off, I apologize about your unfortunate situation with your Tacoma. I usually only "lurk" on these consumer sites because they are designed for consumers and not for the defense of the companies under complaint.



Don, if you knew anything at all about the Toyota Certified program, you would know that the vehicle does not even qualify if there are ANY aftermarket parts or equipment on the vehicle. Some dealers just slap the Toyota Certified logo on the cars w/o first checking.



Ms. Phillips, please consult Toyota directly to clarify this point and good luck.
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#16 Consumer Comment

Don in Kentucky ? Why would you write such a nasty reponse? Are you working for Toyota?

AUTHOR: Roxanne - ()

Dear Don,



Why would you write such a nasty comment to someone who is just another victim of another Toyota dealers rape? Would you perhaps work for Toyota?



When Toyota puts their "Certified Toyota" used vehicle sticker on their used vehicles it leads the average consumer to believe that there is a standard being upheld.



As we Toyota owners now know Toyota's only standard is lying and cheating anyone who has issues with their product.The dealerships are as brazen as they come when it comes to lying and treating customers badly.



I am ASHAMED to have three Toyota's in my driveway! Lately I have noticed that more and more I am seeing Camry's broken down on the side of the road. Something that you never used to see.

Think about why that might be?



If I had the financial resources I would unload each and every one of my vehicles. I have been a loyal Toyota owner for 20 plus years and am sickened by Toyota Corporate, Toyota Dealers and Toyota Products.



I HAVE OWNED HONDA IN THE PAST AND WILL MOST CERTAINLY REPLACE MY TOYOTA'S WITH HONDA IN THE FUTURE.



As for you Don I hope that you are fortunate enough or smart enough as you seem to think that you are that you are never in a similar situation.

Maybe you might see things a bit differently?
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#17 Consumer Suggestion

You buy USED you get USED

AUTHOR: Don - ()

Why would a salesman disclose "non Toyota" windows?



Do you expect a salesperson to have knowledge of

every vehicle on the lot? Grow up and live in the

real World. Did you have a chance to look the

vehicle over?



Did you notice the windows? NO.. and you were buying the vehicle..not just trying to sell it. And you say "Shane" overcharged you for the vehicle... is your arm still sore from him

twisting it to get you to sign the papers?



Oh and just to skip the rest of the dribble..

the mean ol' dealership put you in a (shudder)

RED loaner truck...horror upon horrors.

GET A GRIP

you bought it, trade it or live with it.

JEEZ
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