• Report: #1128009

Complaint Review: Logan Group Int

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  • Submitted: Mon, March 03, 2014
  • Updated: Mon, March 03, 2014

  • Reported By: Douglas — Scottsdale Arizona
Logan Group Int
1315 E Castle Str #D-2 Murfreesboro TN 37130 Murfreesboro, Tennessee USA

Logan Group Int William Smith, Logan Court Classes, logancourtclasses.com SERVICES NOT ACCEPTED as GUARANTEED ON THEIR SITE Murfreesboro Tennessee

*Consumer Comment: The Logan Group should be ashamed of themselves

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Hard to get ahold of the company !!

*Author of original report: Proof Again

*Author of original report: Precisely My Point!

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: This Complaint is Completely False

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I purchased an online course for use in the State of Arizona. The warranty and guarantee on their website explicity states steps taken to ensure acceptability and guarantees the acceptance of the course certificate.

William Smith, Executive Director of Logan Group Int. (administrator@logancourtclasses.com) refused repeated requests by myself and Arizona's DMV to provide the neccessary documentation on the course curriculum. Subesquently, Arizona's DMV denied the certificate causing me excess hardship against my driving privileges.

When I requested that Logan Group Int honor their website's guarantee, William Smith- Executive Director, stated that a refund would not be honored.

Their website does not simply imply a guarantee, it expressly states it. The fine print of their Terms and Conditions attempts to negate this warranty. [continued below]....

..... However, they have no legal basis to do so- as they are willfully and thus, fraudulently, holdings themselves out to have a guarantee that they simply do not honor.

Due to the handling of this case by Mr. Smith and Logan Group Int, I can conclude that they are willfully and fraudulently misrepresenting their services and abilities. Arizona's DMV told me via telephone that their are more cases from Logan Group Int that will be rejected, and despite my repeated attempts to gain Mr Smith's compliance, he has refused to perform.

Their company must remove their warranty and/or cease representing that their services are accepted in the State of Arizona. They must also refund my course fees of $94.90. This is the absolute minimum that they should do. I reserve all remedies due to me above and beyond the terms stated above, as permitted to by law.

 


This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 03/03/2014 05:14 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Logan-Group-Int/Murfreesboro-Tennessee-37130/Logan-Group-Int-William-Smith-Logan-Court-Classes-logancourtclassescom-SERVICES-NOT-AC-1128009. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
2Author 1Consumer 2Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

The Logan Group should be ashamed of themselves

AUTHOR: Anonymous - ()

My ex-husband was court ordered to attend a domestic violence intervention program during the course of our very heated custody battle (our son attempted suicide at his home and suffered an anoxic brain injury).  The Logan Group provided a "Domestic Violence Course Progress Report" claiming my ex had completed 13 weeks of a 24 week course.  The Logan Group allows anyone to enter and complete their program withot obtaining a history or understanding of why an individual is taking their program.  My ex-husbnd is a convicted rapist, domestic batterer, alcoholic and an addict and he is utilizing this company to manipulate the judicial system yet again.  He has willfully and intentionally violated every court order.  The Logan Group stated in an email response I received: "We require our clients to get permission from the court before using our services."

When I questioned him regarding this statement and requested the proof provided, he immediately backpeddled and stated:  "Let me clarify. Anyone can take our courses. We don’t guarantee acceptance. The only way to be sure a particular agency will accept it would be to ask the appropriate representative of that agency.. If someone wants to be sure one of our courses will be accepted for what they intend to use it for, they are required to get permission. Only the judge can say what his/her court will accept." 

This company is bogus.  They are accepting everyone and anyone into their program for a cost and then providing documentation to substantiate compliance.  This is a company that fraudulently represents an offender completes a subpar course, basically enabling an offender to continue to victmize people with absolutely no consequences.

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#2 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Hard to get ahold of the company !!

AUTHOR: Kaylee - ()

My sons father was court ordered to take a parenting class and anger management class, he brought two letters of completion from the Logan website, thanks to the validation section of the website I was able to find out they were indeed faked however the judge didn't know that at the time and he excepted the letters. And allowed him overnights starting this weekend. I'm in urgent need to get ahold of this company to clarify my findings directly so I can put a motion in and save my baby

 

Ive be been trying to get ahold of the company for days emails and the phone rings twice and goes straight to voicemail I've heard nothing at all!! 

 

Kaylee 

mother in need 

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#3 Author of original report

Proof Again

AUTHOR: Douglas - ()

As per Mr Smith's reply, it is clear that his company encounters this problem often- as evidenced by his admission that numerous people have complained and he has refused to honor refunds- as he states, - paraphrasing- PayPal has sided with them every time.

The truth is, PayPal gives a 45 day window to request a refund- and this was over 6 months of problems and issues.

Mr. Smith claimed to me that he supplied the DMV with all the info they required- that was a lie. The representative from the DMV told me he refused numerous attempts to comply.

His arrogance and wonton disregard for a customer of his shows explicitly that he purposefully accepts money without any ethical, moral, and legal compass.

This is a shameful display, $94.90 isn't going to change my life- but I filed this report so that others may take note and hopefully save themselves the money and aggravation.

 

DO NOT USE LOGAN GROUP INT !!

RIP OFF!

 

 

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#4 Author of original report

Precisely My Point!

AUTHOR: Douglas - ()

The arrogance of Mr. Smith, from his own words and highlighted for all to see!

This is a "case of sour grapes"- because I am not the only one who used this service who was awaiting a reply from Mr Smith at Arizona's DMV. As you can read from Mr. Smith's rebuttal, he claims that he "worked with the DMV and provided everything they asked for," which is a bold faced lie. The DMV told me that he repeatedly refused to comply with their requests, and as such- they denied all course work from Logan Group Int.

Just listen to this man's condescension! It certainly does make this a case of sour grapes that a "reasonable and intelligent person" was midlead by Logan Group Int and Mr Smith. I paid you for a service that you were incapable of providing and you refused to perform.

As you can see from his response, Mr. Smith is directly opposed to doing the right and proper thing by advertising correctly on his website and providing me with the refund guaranteed by the aforementioned.

Once again, Mr. Smith, shame on you.

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#5 REBUTTAL Owner of company

This Complaint is Completely False

AUTHOR: William - ()

Here is our guarantee copied from the site, verbatim:

At the Logan Group, our goal is to help improve your quality of life through education and to assist you in meeting your court obligations. Our courses are free, but we do charge for certificates of completion. Realizing these certificates must be accepted to be of help to you, we offer free enrollment verification. This gives the Judge an opportunity to approve your work before you start and before you spend any money.

Other companies guarantee your work will be accepted after you have committed your time and money to their program. Our free enrollment verification addresses that question before you start, eliminating the need for the guarantee of acceptance.

The Logan guarantee is that you will pass your exam and earn your certificate of completion. If you fail to successfully complete our exam, study aid will be provided and you can retake the exam, free of charge. Once you have worked our program, you should have no trouble with the test. If you do, we will offer a full refund, no questions asked.

This client did pass the exam. Here are the Terms of Service he agreed to as a condition of using our service:

LoganCourtClasses.com does not warranty the recognition or acceptance of its services and/or offerings by any agency, public or private. It is your duty and responsibility to obtain agreements of acceptance prior to making your purchase. LoganCourtClasses.com does make available to you, free of charge and prior to any request for payment, printable documents intended for use toward this end. You are expected to determine if these documents are needed, taking into account your personal circumstances. These documents offer insight into the value of our programs, LoganCourtClasses.com qualifications to offer them, and direction for contacting LoganCourtClasses.com to anyone who needs further information.

We worked with Arizona DMV and provided everything they asked for regarding this case. I don't know what this client is talking about. 

This is a case of sour grapes. As any reasonable and intelligent person can see, we have a very specific guarantee policy, and it is our sworn position that we have followed it. We do not want clients wasting their time with a product they cannot use. Our courses are designed for use in court, not DMV departments. Regardless, some DMV departments accept us, and some do not. This is a big and wonderful country. We cannot contact every agency and court to make an individual agreement with them. As stated, we do not want clients wasting their time with a product they cannot use.

This is why, without ever asking the client for payment information, and never bothering them by email for payment or anything else, we let them sign up for free. We let them take the classes and the exam for free. We allow and even encourage them to print a free verifiable Letter of Enrollment, and take it to the powers that be in their case to get approval for use before they ever pay 1 red cent. You know how you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink? Well, you can give a client all the tools they need to accomplish a goal, but you can't make them use them.

We welcome everyone to review our site. You may know someone who could use our services. Come see our posted guarantee, accessible by a visible link at the top of the home page. Make an account if you wish to see our terms of service. You can actually go to the account signup page without entering any information, and bring up the terms of service. We have thousands of satisfied clients, and PayPal always sides with us after investigation in these warranty related cases. If they ruled in this client's favor, he would have his refund.

Other companies like ours do offer an acceptance guarantee. We believe that causes clients to pay upfront, and do a lot of work, only to find in some cases that it isn't accepted, and they have to start over. If they anger the judge, they can find themselves is greater trouble than when they started. Then, they still have to jump through some serious hoops to meet the refund requirements. Our way, clients do not have to work, pay or risk further legal trouble. They just have to use the tools we provide to them and they are set. Thank you for allowing us to provide a rebuttal for our firm.

 

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