• Report: #266725

Complaint Review: Metropolitan Adjustment Bureau/CIT/Lease Finance Group

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  • Submitted: Fri, August 10, 2007
  • Updated: Sat, September 15, 2007

  • Reported By:Tucson Arizona
Metropolitan Adjustment Bureau/CIT/Lease Finance Group
22212 Ventura BLvd Suite 200 Woodland Hills, CA 91364 Woodland Hills, California U.S.A.

Metropolitan Adjustment Bureau/CIT/Lease Finance Group Credit Card MAchine Fraud Ripoff Woodland Hills California

*Author of original report: Attorney General of Illinois

*Consumer Comment: You seem to know a lot

*Consumer Comment: Info about "common law fraud" in Arizona

*Consumer Suggestion: Response to Rich

*Consumer Comment: This happened to me

*Consumer Suggestion: Still not convinced on the fraud angle

*Author of original report: Real Advice

*Consumer Suggestion: Your company should be giving you more support

*Consumer Suggestion: Yikes, I think you're screwed!

*Consumer Comment: Julie...

*Consumer Comment: WHERE IS THE CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT??

*Consumer Comment: Amused, not angry!

*Author of original report: More Anger?

*Consumer Comment: Grow up and take some responsibility, Suzanne

*Consumer Comment: You Going to Screw Up Again

*Consumer Suggestion: Ahh, the rub!!

*Author of original report: Wow, the anger!

*Consumer Comment: You Screwed Up

*Consumer Comment: You Screwed Up

*Consumer Comment: You Screwed Up

*Consumer Comment: You Screwed Up

*Author of original report: Equipment Return

*Consumer Comment: Hard to make sense of this report...

*Author of original report: Seriously Respond to Me

*Author of original report: I am compalining about the fraud that occured, do you not understand there was fraud?

*Author of original report: I am compalining about the fraud that occured, do you not understand there was fraud?

*Author of original report: I am compalining about the fraud that occured, do you not understand there was fraud?

*Author of original report: I am compalining about the fraud that occured, do you not understand there was fraud?

*Consumer Suggestion: What are you complaining about?

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Yeah, I guess that I am the latest. Not only have they threatened me with lawyers in my area, but they also harass me after I tell them not to call me at work. My boss even called and told them not to call our work number.

I was appraoched by someone representing the bank that we do business with in Tucson. They offered me a great deal, I said I needed new machines and they said no problem. I am not an officer with the company so technically, I should have never been the contact or the signer.

After a letter from a local lawyer in the Company's defense, I got stuck with the unknowing personal guarantee that I signed. As a company rule, we do not lease equipment, EVER!, not even pitney bowes postage machines.

I am the office manager and nothing more, however, after 2 months we saw extra charges and another credit card machine salesman showed me the fraudulance. Tucson has many companies with same fate.

They dropped the harassment on the company for which I work, but still to this day, 2 years later, harass me every week. I am done! Not only do I not pay them what they ask but they have just messed with the wrong person.

I am a fourth generation Arizonan and have connections all the way to the governor. I am willing to go to court, to the Senators of our state (John McCain) and to the governor (Janet Napolitano), not only this but the Unitted States Attorney General needs to know that this is happening all over the Country. When do we stand up as comsumers and fight for our rights?

My credit is ruined a year after I bought a house with good credit. I will not, as an upstanding citizen of the United States allow some fraudulent company to bully me into submission.

No, they are going to find out that this sort of business is NOT ACCEPTABLE to the US population and everyone involved should be held accountable.

I am not a bad person, naive maybe, but that does not constitute a battle with experian or anyone else to have power over my life. Take me to court and I will make a federal case, son't take me to court and I will make a federal case.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!

Susanne
Tucson, Arizona
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 08/10/2007 08:46 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Metropolitan-Adjustment-BureauCITLease-Finance-Group/Woodland-Hills-California-91364/Metropolitan-Adjustment-BureauCITLease-Finance-Group-Credit-Card-MAchine-Fraud-Ripoff-Wo-266725. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Author of original report

Attorney General of Illinois

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

The attorney general of Illinois is able to communicate with these companies to take care of the problem. Good Luck! Susanne
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#2 Consumer Comment

You seem to know a lot

AUTHOR: D - (U.S.A.)

Suzanne-you seem to think you know a lot about how to go get these companies but you did not know to read what you were signing? I don't buy it.
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#3 Consumer Comment

Info about "common law fraud" in Arizona

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Taken from the scammedinarizon.com website:

In Arizona fraud is well defined in many court cases and consumer lawyers practicing in Arizona can recite the elements of fraud in their sleep. In order to prevail in a common law fraud lawsuit each of the following must be present and you must be able to prove that in court. Here they are:

1. Someone said something or represented something to you.

2. The statement or the representation was false.

3. The statement or the representation was material (important)

4. At they time they made the statement they knew it was false or misleading.

5. They meant for you to rely on the statement.

6. You did not know the statement was misleading or false

7. You relied on the statement.

8. Your reliance was justified.

9. You suffered damages as a result of your reliance.

Susanne, as you can see, this "common law" fraud is about winning a civil suit against a defendant based on a committed fraud.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether you can enter into a binding contract or not, if your husband did not also sign the contract. I think you're confusing the issue because of some misunderstood premise regarding community property. Yes the money in the joint bank account is community property - it belongs to both you and your husband. This does NOT mean that someone can't get a money judgement against you and have the court order the bank to withdrawl funds from the joint account to pay YOUR debt.

I suspect that you have this perception from your husband, so as to discourage you from, well... from signing contracts - purchase agreements, credit card applications, loans and such.

In no way does someone need a co-signing signature from your husband to seek a judgement enforcement order that goes after community property! A winning plantiff may seek and get a court enforcement order to place a lien against ANY property in which you have an interest - be it a car, trailer, bank account, or your HOME. In cases where there is a co-owner of the property, and you can't work it out with the other co-owners, the court can order the property SOLD and then divy up the proceeds of the sale between (in order of payout) the winning plantiff, the other co-owners, and you.
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#4 Consumer Suggestion

Response to Rich

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Rich,

If your mother didn't personally guarantee the lease, then she isn't personally liable on the debt.

You stated "They put the Corporations name on top of the contract (which means nothing) and had her sign the contract."

It DOES mean something that they put the corporation's name on the contract. It means that the agreement was between the corporation and the lessor. As your mother was likely the president of the corporation, her signature on the lease, in legal terms, was made in her capacity as an officer of a corporation, on behalf of the corporation, and not as an individual.

The whole purpose of corporations and other "limited liability" entities is to protect the personal assets of the people who own the company. If the company goes under, its creditors can force it into an involuntary Chapter 7 and collect their pro rata share of the assets of the corporation, but NOT the assets of the shareholders/members/partners.

However, if the terms of the contract state that she was personally guaranteeing it, then you run into the same problem as the person who wrote this report. Otherwise, I wouldn't pay these guys one red cent, I would dispute any collections activities, and let them take mama to court if they want to. All she has to do is raise up that good old corporate shield and she should be just fine.

Best regards, and I'm sorry to hear that mom's business didn't work out.
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#5 Consumer Comment

This happened to me

AUTHOR: Rich - (U.S.A.)

My mother signed a lease with these people. First I usually read everything before she signs her name to anything for her little restaurant. Why because she can not read English and can barely speak English. When she signed the lease she asked the rep that if the business failed can she just return the machine and not make further payments. She asked this because business wasn't great. The rep who spoke Spanish told her that if the business failed to just return the machine and that would be it.

There were 2 reps and they put the hard sell on her and she signed a contract that was in English that the rep filed out for her. She told them that I formed a S-corp for her and that I told her that everything ever bought business name not hers. They put the Corporations name on top of the contract (which means nothing) and had her sign the contract. It was for 5yrs which sounds extremely long for a cheap piece of equipment.

The business lasted 3yrs and they want over $2000 for the remainder of the lease. She is unemployed and all the Corporation accounts have been closed I was able to pay off most creditors and made partial payments to the rest. I sent a letter to CIT informing them of what happened at the signing and the closing of the business. Along with the letter I returned the equipment and $500 to end the lease. They cashed the check and are now hounding my mother for the remainder of the lease. My mother owns no property, is unemployed and makes about $1000.00 a month doing odd jobs mostly for me.

I think they took advantage of an elderly immigrant and small business owner. I have spoken to them and they will make no concessions I know it was only .25 on the dollar but they don't take into account the three years of fees.
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#6 Consumer Suggestion

Still not convinced on the fraud angle

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Maybe the attorneys you have spoken with have a clearer idea of the big picture here, but I am having a hard time understanding the fraud angle.

From what I see, you signed a contract that contained the terms which they are now trying to hold you to.

I understand that, when you signed the contract, you didn't realize that you were going to be held personally liable for it, and I understand that you entered into said contract, on behalf of your company, without the actual authority to do so.

But fraud generally requires some sort of material misrepresentation that the defrauded person "reasonably" relies on to their detriment.

However, even if the salesman were to tell you that you wouldn't be held personally liable on the contract, you fail out on the "reasonable reliance" part of fraud because the contract itself contradicted such assertion.

In fact, in a court of law, you would probably not even be allowed to introduce evidence of the conversation you had with the salesman. There's a tricky little device called the "four corners rule" which, in a nutshell, states that a written agreement contains ALL of the terms of the agreement, and anything that is said before of after is irrelevant unless it is used to explain an ambiguity in the contract.

On another angle, and I hate to have to say this, but if anyone committed fraud here, it was you. You represented that you were authorized to bind your company to this agreement when you in fact were not.

But then again, maybe I have this thing all wrong. You can look up a pretty good explanation of common law fraud on Wiipedia. I would like for you to check that out, and then tell us how your case fits into "fraud."

And remember, I may not agree with your legal conclusions, and I may not always paint a rosy picture, but I do think that you got screwed over, and I am here to help!

Best regards!
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#7 Author of original report

Real Advice

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

Thank you for any real advice. Sincerely. In Arizona there is such thing as Common Law Fraud. Besides the class action suit that I am tyring to start, I also have attorney contacts within my own state that have related to me that this would work in my case.

But keep it coming and thanks again.
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#8 Consumer Suggestion

Your company should be giving you more support

AUTHOR: The_bookkeeper - (U.S.A.)

Dear Suzanne

I have some comments and a question, and also can relate our experience with CIT Finance Group.

The credit card leasing is separate from the company that processes the credit cards, although the sales rep is representing both interests when he/she is selling you the service.

So your business is pretty much commited to both companies, which are probably just divisions of the same company, for the term of the lease.

In our case, a salesman presented us with a deal, a contract, which is "non-cancellable" and then my husband signed the guy's laptop.

This was fine until I started getting double billing for the equipment lease, which was an electric funds transfer out of our checking account. Not only that, but the unknown name taking the money out of our account was charging $5 a month more than the original contract amount.

I was pretty outraged. Long story short--the salesman was impossible to reach. The leasing company had been sold and had bought our contract. It took me months, playing phone tag with all sorts of clueless, rude, surly service reps to get a refund for the double billing from the original company.

Within the small print of the contract is a clause which says they can sell your contract, and you will pay the new company whatever the new company charges.

This also effectively extended the time of our lease by five months. They can do this. Because you signed the contract.

These people are worse than cell phone companies. And this one keeps changing its name! EFS Concord, CIT, LFG. There is some funny stuff going on here, but we are stuck with what they do.

What this means for most businesses is that you can't change credit card processing companies, even if you find one that gives better rates, until your time is up, or you pay off the balance on your equipment lease. They can change, but you can't.

Suzanne, what is the total amount you owe? We now owe $780, our lease is up in two years. The usual lease on credit card processing equipment is 48 months.

Your company should not have returned the equipment. That was their mistake. They owe you their support. I don't know how you can make them do this, but they have kicked you to the curb by saying you had no legal standing to sign contracts.

This is a sleazy deal, but not illegal. And they have very good attorneys. You should find an attorney to help you cut your loses, and to get your employer to be part of the solution. It's not worth having this on your credit report. And it's not worth the drain on your health or peace of mind.

I wish you luck, and tough nerves.
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Yikes, I think you're screwed!

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Suzanne,

I certainly see your point, and I see why you are upset by this matter. But, unfortuntely, the law does NOT see your point, and doesn't really care that you are upset.

You may not have liked the tact taken by the above rebuttals, but giving them a quick read-over, I could only find one flaw (an irrelevant one at that - attorney's fees ARE dischargeable in bankruptcies - that's why a Chapter 7 lawyer has to get paid up front!).

As I see it, you have but one shaky defense to this debt. It's not really rooted in fraud, but more in what your degree of authority appeared to be to whoever leased you the machine. If he had good reason to believe that you had the authority to enter into this contract, then you are at least an "apparent agent," even if you didn't have actual authority to enter into the contract. Then you would have to get around the "personal guaranty" issue, and I'm not sure how you're going to do that, as unfortunate as that may be.

However, I don't think that bankruptcy is the right option for you. If this debt is somewhere around $2000, then it's only a few hundred more than what you would be paying a Chapter 7 lawyer, and probably less than what you would be paying a Chapter 13 lawyer. You'd likely be better off entering into some sort of payment agreement. You can try to use the threat of bankruptcy to try to get the debt reduced and favorable payment terms.

And the "community property" thing is primarily an issue of family law, not contracts (in most cases). In fact, if the community property law was to apply to this transaction, it wouldn't have the effect of avoiding your personal liability but, rather, would make your husband jointly liable (even as he didn't sign the contract).

As to the question of whether or not this was a ripoff, I'm kind of on the fence. These types of contracts always ask for a personal guaranty nowadays, so that the seller/lessor has someone to personally go after if the company can't or won't pay its debts. But usually the guaranty is made by someone higher up than an office manager, and it's kind of odd that they would look to you to guaranty the debt.
Just remember: contracts have words on them for a reason!

Best of luck!
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#10 Consumer Comment

Julie...

AUTHOR: H - (U.S.A.)

Julie:

In Suzanne's case, her contract was not forged; she signed it, along with signing a PERSONAL GUARANTEE that her company did not give her approval to sign on their behalf. She made a mistake by overstepping her line of authority at her job and now feels "defrauded".

By signing, you are *agreeing to* and taking *responsibility* for the terms of the contract, which is what Suzanne did. It turned out to be a bad deal (according to Suzanne) and she now wants out of that responsibility. Unfortunately for her, that is not the way our laws work if you decide something that you are legally bound by is not working out to your liking.

While I strongly believe in consumer rights, I equally believe in consumer responsibility. YOU MUST READ AND COMPREHEND DOCUMENTS BEFORE YOU AGREE TO AND SIGN THEM.
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#11 Consumer Comment

WHERE IS THE CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT??

AUTHOR: Julie K. San Antonio - (U.S.A.)

Dear Susi,

I did indeed report them to the Illinois AG and 3 others. What attorney are you referring to?

These people who are responding to your information don't understand the way in which these companies manipulate. Its all smoke and mirrors I tell you. It is just a big scam and I am sorry you were screwed. Did you know the BBB has almost 600 complaints againt LFG. The BBB's wont do jack squat. They are all in cahoots. The answer lies in the Federal Justice System. If These low life companies want extortionate money from our accounts then let them be held accountable by the FEDS. Everybody keep filing reports the the FBI and the AG's and soon they will go down. Any company of this magnitude who forges contracts and then steals money and then threatens and harasses will be held accountable, its just a matter of time. It is people like us who make the difference. Lets stick together folks!

JK
San Antonio, Texas
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#12 Consumer Comment

Amused, not angry!

AUTHOR: H - (U.S.A.)

Suzanne,

Just like the other posters on this thread, I have no vested interest in this company or the fact that YOU personally guaranteed a purchase in a contract YOU signed.

At the end of the day, it is of no consequence to me whether or not you waste your time and money in court over this. In fact, I actually hope you do. It may be a good lesson in responsibility. but somehow I think this may be a lesson in futility. I believe the courts will tell you that you were wrong and decide against you, but you will still be convinced that you were right.

I noticed that you not only think the posters who disagree with you work for the company, but that we are all 'angry' over your mistake. We really aren't - we really don't even care what you did, what you do, or what the outcome is. For me, personally, this is a form of entertainment. I read about some people who truly were 'wronged' by some companies to fuel my own consumer awareness, but I also love to read posts like yours that are clearly nonsensical, clueless, and emotionally charged. all for my own amusement.

You have every right to take this to court, your senators & congressmen, presidential candidates, the president himself, your mother, God, and whoever else will listen. In fact, I encourage you to. Hopefully, it may help you to hear it from someone in authority over you that if you sign a contract and personally guarantee it, you are responsible for and bound by that agreement. Do what you need to do, and I implore you to please come back and post a copy of your judgement and any letters you receive from John McCain on this thread.

For now, however, to me you sound like an irresponsible, immature, regretful, vengeful, and uninformed 'grown woman' whose bosses won't back her up on a personally costly mistake she made on behalf of her company. Good luck going forward!
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#13 Author of original report

More Anger?

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

Wow, are you telling me that you have nothing better to do in life than sit around telling people how to behave? Maybe you should find a life.

I am a grown woman and I do recognize when people are right, however in this case, they are not. I was mislead, I have returned the equipment, I have notified the proper authorites and most have gotten back with me. I owe them NOTHING!!!

By the way, unless you know our Senators intimately, don't decide what they or any of their assistants may find interesting. It takes a big EGO to assume that you know what everyone should or should not, will or would not do.

Like I said, I would like to go in front of a jury of my peers and a judge that practices law in the State of Arizona. I think I am a better judge of my own states laws, as well as my lawyer, than someone in a different state that has no law experience what so ever.

If it costs me it costs me, my lesson, again, I am a grown woman who can take care of herself. But again, thanks for all of your opinions, it was a great try, you may have been able to sway me if I was not so driven to take this company down. Stubborn yes, immature, not so much.
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#14 Consumer Comment

Grow up and take some responsibility, Suzanne

AUTHOR: H - (U.S.A.)

Suzanne,

It is not necessarily the case that every person who disagrees that your situation involves fraud is an employee of this company. In fact, most rebuttals written are just from readers on the outside looking in - most companies who respond will identify themselves appropriately in defense of the company.

I have been reading rip-off for years now, and I have noticed that often times when most everyone disagrees with the OP, the OP will accuse the entire nation of working for that company. Suzanne - just stop and think: it IS possible that people just disagree with you. It IS possible that you have little to no legal recourse.

It IS possible that there are consumers who read and understand a contract before they sign it. Lastly, it IS possible (and probable, in this case) that you are wrong.

Now, pick yourself up and take some responsibility for the decision YOU made to sign and personally guarantee that contract, without comprehending it, and without checking with your bosses first.

PS - I, myself, will PERSONALLY GUARANTEE that John McCain doesn't care about this.
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#15 Consumer Comment

You Going to Screw Up Again

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

You wanted advice and you got it. You are stuck in a legally binding contract with a personal guaranty; that is what your attorney is going to tell you. You will be far better off settling the matter, not to mention that you will at least have something over their head, and that's the potential of filing bankruptcy. The BK will negate the personal guaranty, they will get nothing else from you, and they'll stop the calling.

I would tell them I'll settle for $0.25 on the dollar - "take it or I go BK." They might try to get you to go for $0.40 or $0.50. Tell them to pound sand, and then maybe up it to $0.30 as a gesture. If they say no, just file BK and your debt to them is finished. Whatever you do, don't be stupid enough to decide you want your day in court - you'll lose, you'll still end up in BK, except that you'll have to pay lawyer fees which can't be discharged in BK, in addition to the BK attorney fees. CIT has probably done this a few times now, and they probably have an ironclad contract that your attorney won't be able to penetrate because there isn't true fraud involved.

I have no dog in this fight - I could care less. If you feel like parting with more of your money for no good reason and go to court - that's your choice. In your impossible situation, you have few options remaining and a courtroom isn't one of them. In this country and with the laws in place, that's all you really have at this point. It is an expensive lesson indeed for you to find out the ramifications of a personal guaranty......
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#16 Consumer Suggestion

Ahh, the rub!!

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Suzanne, you wrote: "Equipment Return The equipment was returned two (2) months after the signing of the contract."

I think this is a SIGNIFICANT part, if not the root cause, of the problem your having. As I stated previously, I think this could have been resolved if your company returned the equipment immediately.

Now I have to ask "why wasn't the equipment immediately returned?" I'm asking, because if this matter goes to a court, the court is going to ask the same question.

The problem is 2 fold Suzanne. You're claiming fraud (misrepresentation) on the part of the equipment supplier salesperson. Well, I'm afraid that the equipment supplier will ALSO claim fraud against you and possibly your company - from their point, they will claim to have acted in good faith and fully expected that as the "office manager" you had authority to authorize company purchases for business equipment. Further, they will most likely point out to the court that the equipment was kept for 2 months instead of being returned immediately which is what someone would expect if this were simply an honest mistake of an unauthorized purchase. The will likely press the issue of "buyers remorse" by suggesting that your company used the equipment for 2 months, and then decided for whatever reasons that your company didn't want it. And, quite frankly, they have a good case for it - it does look like buyers remorse to me.

Your company is going to have to come up with some plausible explanation as to why the equipment was not immediately returned. Further, I suggest you read the lease agreement very carefully as regards "termination" or "return of equipment." Perhaps there is some point in the lease that has so far been overlooked by your or your employer.

Also, have you considered seeking any legal remedy against your employer? Does your employer have written procurement proceedures and policies that clearly denote who can authorize purchases for office supplies and equipment.

IF you were authorized to order company letterhead and other office supplies, then I think it fallows that you could reasonably expect that you would also be authorized to contract office services needed for your company to conduct business.

This is a "sticky wicket" as the Brits would say. Have you consulted with a private attorney? (not an attorney on retainer for your company.)


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#17 Author of original report

Wow, the anger!

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

I can only imagine that you are somehow affiliated because there is so much anger in your tone. Don't worry, I will copy all and take that to court also. You don't scare me with your tactics and I have nothing to lose.

You have already trashed my credit the only thing that I can do now is to try to stop you and make sure that no one else gets hurt by you.

Check your attidute at the door and do your homework before you suggest what I am and am not capable of and what is very possible for me.

I will be heard even if you continue to call me names and pick at my problem.

But thanks for the bad advice
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#18 Consumer Comment

You Screwed Up

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

As the office manager, you have responsibility for administering the office and your position implies authority to an outside vendor, no matter what you or your management might think. If your title was secretary or administrative assistant, that might be a different story. None of it would excuse you from the personal guaranty you signed - which I really can't believe you did; I mean that was really stupid. Unless you planned on paying for such a machine personally, you never sign a personal guaranty for ANYTHING - I don't care what a good deal anything in this life is. I think your company also screwed up by not covering your back, but that's a different issue.

What's your recourse? The politicians you cited will not help you; John McCain is a bit busy right now, Jon Kyl is an idiot, and Janet Napolitano isn't going to step into a situation like this because there's no fraud (no matter what another salesman thinks or says). There is a valid contract between CIT and your company that you signed (and they aren't paying for it) and a signed personal guaranty with your signature on it. Every court in the land that would grant judgment to CIT in this case - it's a slam dunk winner.

I suppose you can try two things:

1. You can try to negotiate with them and find out what it will take to get yourself out from under this burden, and/or

2. You can declare bankruptcy if they don't agree to your terms.

I would seriously consider the latter if they don't help you out. Your credit is already trashed, so a BK may not be the worst thing at this point. In such a case, you may even be able to keep the house, but I would consult a bankruptcy lawyer as to your options.

In this country, everyone has rights - including the right to be foolish. It's time for you to take the appropriate action and negotiate because if they do take you to court, you will have your day in court - you will be held accountable and by the time it's all done, you'll wish you never did have that day in court because you could lose everything in the end.
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#19 Consumer Comment

You Screwed Up

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

As the office manager, you have responsibility for administering the office and your position implies authority to an outside vendor, no matter what you or your management might think. If your title was secretary or administrative assistant, that might be a different story. None of it would excuse you from the personal guaranty you signed - which I really can't believe you did; I mean that was really stupid. Unless you planned on paying for such a machine personally, you never sign a personal guaranty for ANYTHING - I don't care what a good deal anything in this life is. I think your company also screwed up by not covering your back, but that's a different issue.

What's your recourse? The politicians you cited will not help you; John McCain is a bit busy right now, Jon Kyl is an idiot, and Janet Napolitano isn't going to step into a situation like this because there's no fraud (no matter what another salesman thinks or says). There is a valid contract between CIT and your company that you signed (and they aren't paying for it) and a signed personal guaranty with your signature on it. Every court in the land that would grant judgment to CIT in this case - it's a slam dunk winner.

I suppose you can try two things:

1. You can try to negotiate with them and find out what it will take to get yourself out from under this burden, and/or

2. You can declare bankruptcy if they don't agree to your terms.

I would seriously consider the latter if they don't help you out. Your credit is already trashed, so a BK may not be the worst thing at this point. In such a case, you may even be able to keep the house, but I would consult a bankruptcy lawyer as to your options.

In this country, everyone has rights - including the right to be foolish. It's time for you to take the appropriate action and negotiate because if they do take you to court, you will have your day in court - you will be held accountable and by the time it's all done, you'll wish you never did have that day in court because you could lose everything in the end.
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#20 Consumer Comment

You Screwed Up

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

As the office manager, you have responsibility for administering the office and your position implies authority to an outside vendor, no matter what you or your management might think. If your title was secretary or administrative assistant, that might be a different story. None of it would excuse you from the personal guaranty you signed - which I really can't believe you did; I mean that was really stupid. Unless you planned on paying for such a machine personally, you never sign a personal guaranty for ANYTHING - I don't care what a good deal anything in this life is. I think your company also screwed up by not covering your back, but that's a different issue.

What's your recourse? The politicians you cited will not help you; John McCain is a bit busy right now, Jon Kyl is an idiot, and Janet Napolitano isn't going to step into a situation like this because there's no fraud (no matter what another salesman thinks or says). There is a valid contract between CIT and your company that you signed (and they aren't paying for it) and a signed personal guaranty with your signature on it. Every court in the land that would grant judgment to CIT in this case - it's a slam dunk winner.

I suppose you can try two things:

1. You can try to negotiate with them and find out what it will take to get yourself out from under this burden, and/or

2. You can declare bankruptcy if they don't agree to your terms.

I would seriously consider the latter if they don't help you out. Your credit is already trashed, so a BK may not be the worst thing at this point. In such a case, you may even be able to keep the house, but I would consult a bankruptcy lawyer as to your options.

In this country, everyone has rights - including the right to be foolish. It's time for you to take the appropriate action and negotiate because if they do take you to court, you will have your day in court - you will be held accountable and by the time it's all done, you'll wish you never did have that day in court because you could lose everything in the end.
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#21 Consumer Comment

You Screwed Up

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

As the office manager, you have responsibility for administering the office and your position implies authority to an outside vendor, no matter what you or your management might think. If your title was secretary or administrative assistant, that might be a different story. None of it would excuse you from the personal guaranty you signed - which I really can't believe you did; I mean that was really stupid. Unless you planned on paying for such a machine personally, you never sign a personal guaranty for ANYTHING - I don't care what a good deal anything in this life is. I think your company also screwed up by not covering your back, but that's a different issue.

What's your recourse? The politicians you cited will not help you; John McCain is a bit busy right now, Jon Kyl is an idiot, and Janet Napolitano isn't going to step into a situation like this because there's no fraud (no matter what another salesman thinks or says). There is a valid contract between CIT and your company that you signed (and they aren't paying for it) and a signed personal guaranty with your signature on it. Every court in the land that would grant judgment to CIT in this case - it's a slam dunk winner.

I suppose you can try two things:

1. You can try to negotiate with them and find out what it will take to get yourself out from under this burden, and/or

2. You can declare bankruptcy if they don't agree to your terms.

I would seriously consider the latter if they don't help you out. Your credit is already trashed, so a BK may not be the worst thing at this point. In such a case, you may even be able to keep the house, but I would consult a bankruptcy lawyer as to your options.

In this country, everyone has rights - including the right to be foolish. It's time for you to take the appropriate action and negotiate because if they do take you to court, you will have your day in court - you will be held accountable and by the time it's all done, you'll wish you never did have that day in court because you could lose everything in the end.
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#22 Author of original report

Equipment Return

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

The equipment was returned two (2) months after the signing of the contract. We returned the equipment directly to CIT. If this company is not fraudulant then why have dozens of people in Tucson had the same problem with the exact sales representative?

Misrepresentation is a form of fraud...but thanks for your response anyways.
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#23 Consumer Comment

Hard to make sense of this report...

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Susanne, if I understand your report did you sign a contract for new credit card authorization equipment and your employer didn't want them, and as a result the equipment supplier is holding YOU to the contract YOU signed? I wouldn't call this fraud.

It sounds to me as though you overstepped your authority (or lack of it) as the office manager by signing the contract even though you were not authorized to act as an agent for your company. You don't have to be an officer of a company to make purchases for the company but you do have to be an "authorized purchasing agent" for the company.

You wrote: "Someone comes in fills out paperwork for you and says sign this, you do without knowing, then are hels accountable for 1000's of dollars which you did not agree on? That is not fraud in your book?"

No, it's not fraud in my book. As an "office manager" you should have known that you don't sign anything without reading it. This is for you own protection as you're now learning.

You further wrote: "Besides, inthe state of Arizona I am unable to sign a personal guarantee without my husbands signature as our money is community property."

Who told you this? Your husband? By this logic, you could never be a cosigner on a loan (even for your own child to get an auto loan) without your husband's signature. I don't believe "community property" works that way.

What I don't understand is why your boss wasn't able to straighten this out with the equipment supplier. It seems to me that had your boss immediately contacted them and explained that it's a misunderstanding because you are not authorized to spend company funds or act an an agent of the company in contracts that the equipment could have been immediately returned - perhaps with a modest "restocking fee" being billed.

Where is this equipment now? If your company is using this equipment then I don't understand why you are being required to pay for it - seems to me your company should have immediately returned it.

Unfortunately, this may be a situation that the courts may have to resolve. I don't mean for fraud, but rather the courts might have to decide if it was an honest mistake on YOUR part that your signed the lease contract believing that your were an authorized agent of your company to do so - in other words, the court MIGHT decide that the supplier is going to be ordered to accept the return of the equipment and you are not going to pay the lease fees.

I'm rather surprised that this has gone on for 2 years without and court proceedings.

Again, where is the equipment that they provided?
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#24 Author of original report

Seriously Respond to Me

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

I really think that you "D" from Jacksonville Fl should be looking for another job. I will not let this go. Give me your name and you may be spaired as an innocent. I know what it is like to stand by the company in which you work. We all feel as though we are in the right.

I follow the rules, I always look for the great deal, and you offer that. However, your company cannot deliver.

I do not feel as though you are responsible for my grief however you do have the power to change what you are doing. You will not be held accountable as you are a pawn in this game.

Give us what what we need to stop this fraud. You can walk away uscaved. Turn into a good guy.

Know this...we are in the right...your company is fraudulant. Go to bed tonight knowing that you did the right thing.

I see your responses on all of the complaints, know that we have your number and that the company that you for is going to see its day in court. I hate for you to go down with them.

You're probably a decent guy who lives from paycheck to paycheck just trying to justify your life with this company. Turn states evidence and get on with it. If you do we, the class action suit, will promise to take your life into account. You work for a comapny that makes a living off fraudulant behavior.

Come to the good side. We want to amke things right.
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#25 Author of original report

I am compalining about the fraud that occured, do you not understand there was fraud?

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

Someone comes in fills out paperwork for you and says sign this, you do without knowing, then are hels accountable for 1000's of dollars which you did not agree on? That is not fraud in your book? You must be foreign. I am a us citizen and I have rights. Besides, inthe state of Arizona I am unable to sign a personal guarantee without my husbands signature as our money is community property. I suggest you do some homework before suggesting that I am in the wrong for anything else besides ignorance in having be defrauded.

Since my original statement I have contacted the FBI, the FTC and the Governor of Arizona. I will not stop until these this company has faced every vitic and is held accountable for their bad business ethics and fraudulant doings.

You my friend must get paid by one of these companies yourself.
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#26 Author of original report

I am compalining about the fraud that occured, do you not understand there was fraud?

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

Someone comes in fills out paperwork for you and says sign this, you do without knowing, then are hels accountable for 1000's of dollars which you did not agree on? That is not fraud in your book? You must be foreign. I am a us citizen and I have rights. Besides, inthe state of Arizona I am unable to sign a personal guarantee without my husbands signature as our money is community property. I suggest you do some homework before suggesting that I am in the wrong for anything else besides ignorance in having be defrauded.

Since my original statement I have contacted the FBI, the FTC and the Governor of Arizona. I will not stop until these this company has faced every vitic and is held accountable for their bad business ethics and fraudulant doings.

You my friend must get paid by one of these companies yourself.
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#27 Author of original report

I am compalining about the fraud that occured, do you not understand there was fraud?

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

Someone comes in fills out paperwork for you and says sign this, you do without knowing, then are hels accountable for 1000's of dollars which you did not agree on? That is not fraud in your book? You must be foreign. I am a us citizen and I have rights. Besides, inthe state of Arizona I am unable to sign a personal guarantee without my husbands signature as our money is community property. I suggest you do some homework before suggesting that I am in the wrong for anything else besides ignorance in having be defrauded.

Since my original statement I have contacted the FBI, the FTC and the Governor of Arizona. I will not stop until these this company has faced every vitic and is held accountable for their bad business ethics and fraudulant doings.

You my friend must get paid by one of these companies yourself.
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#28 Author of original report

I am compalining about the fraud that occured, do you not understand there was fraud?

AUTHOR: Susanne - (U.S.A.)

Someone comes in fills out paperwork for you and says sign this, you do without knowing, then are hels accountable for 1000's of dollars which you did not agree on? That is not fraud in your book? You must be foreign. I am a us citizen and I have rights. Besides, inthe state of Arizona I am unable to sign a personal guarantee without my husbands signature as our money is community property. I suggest you do some homework before suggesting that I am in the wrong for anything else besides ignorance in having be defrauded.

Since my original statement I have contacted the FBI, the FTC and the Governor of Arizona. I will not stop until these this company has faced every vitic and is held accountable for their bad business ethics and fraudulant doings.

You my friend must get paid by one of these companies yourself.
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#29 Consumer Suggestion

What are you complaining about?

AUTHOR: D - (U.S.A.)

You stated yourself that you signed for the machines. the fact that you were not authorized to do so is not the finance company's fault, it's yours. If you also signed as a personal guarantor, that is also your fault and you agreed to personally take care of these leases if your company did not.

Why don't you get a copy of what you signed before complaining about something that is your fault. You brag about who you know. that does not matter. If you signed a legal lease agreement, you are responsible. Period! stop blaming others for your mistake.
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