• Report: #107019

Complaint Review: Midtown Promotions

  • Submitted: Sat, September 04, 2004
  • Updated: Sat, October 22, 2005

  • Reported By:Hoboken New Jersey
Midtown Promotions
115 West 30th Street New York, New York U.S.A.

Midtown Promotions - possibly A DS-MAX Or CYDCOR Cousin SCAM AD LIES ABOUT POTENTIAL SALARY POSSIBLE PYRAMID SCAM SHADY SHADY INTERVIEWING TECHNIQUES COMMISSION-ONLY B2B HAVE TO BOTHER OTHER COMPANIES NEW YORK

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Top Flight Marketing

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Top Flight Marketing

*Consumer Comment: Top flight Marketing Scam

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: S

*UPDATE Employee: Deeper in the rabbit hole.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: A bit more info for you Patrick... They are all scumbags, terrible people who will do whatever it takes to put an extra dollar in their pockets.

*UPDATE Employee: Midtown promotions, Birns, F& F communications exactly like those dreaded ds-max schemes

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Just Got Out... Thanks to all!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I Worked For Cor Concepts subsidiary of Cydcor/ worst days of my life

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This spring, as a college grad and career-changer, I applied for several jobs on Monster in "entry-level sales." I had avoided several ads that didn't specify a salary (I had one bad experience with Primerica and XTreme Promotions--a cydcor cronie--so I knew to seek out ads with base pay). This looked like the cat's meow. The ad read as follows:

-----------------------------------------------
Company: Midtown Promotions Location: US-NY-New York City
Salary/Wage: 400.00 - 600.00 USD /week Status: Full Time, Employee
Job Category: Advertising/Marketing/Public Relations Career Level: Entry Level

Based in New York City, MIDTOWN PROMOTIONS partnered up with F & F Telecommunications, is an authorized Sales Agent for Verizon, which is our primary client and is the largest telecommunication company in the East Coast. In addition we also have the pleasure of work with other telecommunication companies and financial institutions. This year our success with our clients has led us to increase our marketing & management team.

We are looking to fill positions Full time in ENTRY-LEVEL Sales & Marketing immediately. Although the positions are Entry-Level, we are seeking to cross-train individuals in various areas of our company such as:

SALES & MARKETING: Our approach is very unique. Since we deal with corporate accounts, we strongly believe that meeting face-to-face with our customers is better than conducting business over the phone and never having the personal relationship with the clients.
We are willing to cross-train people in all aspects of our sales and marketing, interpersonal communications skills and management. Rapid advancement for qualified applicants
CAMPAIGN MANAGEMENT
ACCOUNT MANAGER
MANAGEMENT

No experience is necessary.

-----------------------------------------

The salary looked like a base pay, and they said no experience necessary, so I called to request an interview. I got it. I was determined that this time it would work--that I would not be scammed. Put on my spanking clean suit and went to the interview.

When I got there, I was interviewed by a lady named Fadia. She wanted to know how my psychology background related to the job, and loved my answer that I loved working with people and was also hoping to expand my own horizons via a sales job. She said today's interview would be very short, but that I'd find out more details during the second interview. She explained it as an outside sales position where you go around to different businesses selling Verizon upgrades. In order to avoid the "soliciting" impression, she said, they only go to compannies that already have Verizon, and try to convince them to get this particular plan. I thought, okay.

Fadia interviewed me for about 5 minutes, and said that she had tons of other people to interview and that the position was highly competitive. She said she'd call me back by 6 p.m. that night, but that if I didn't hear from her, I should call her.

Fadia also mentioned that training others was important to the job. AFter you train x numbe of people, you get to management. (Sounded pyramid-ish to me, but I didn't have to bother my family or friends, so I was fine with it).

The office had me a bit suspicious. It was tiny; was mostly a reception area with a small hallway, much like a converted 2-bedroom apartment. The office area was nice though; nicer than the other Cydcor office I'd been to--very newage with polished wood floors. It seemed that the only places to sit down were about three office desks, and one standing room. But it made some sense considering that the position was outside sales.

I hadn't heard from her by the next morning, so I called her. Sure enough, I'd been invited back for another interview. This was sounding highly fishy already, i mean if it was so "highly competitive," then why did they jump on an inexperienced psych major when Im' sure many marketing majors applied too? But I thought oh well, I need the money and they do pay, so I'll go for the second interview.

For the second interview, Fadia said to wear comfortable shoes because the 2nd interview would be a day to observe and train with another staff member (much like the "day of O" described in other posts here).

When I got in for the second interview, the atmosphere was just spooky. There were about 20-30 people cramming the small reception area. People were being called one by one to this back room, but while I was waiting, I could see people in suits and ties sitting around drinking water in this back room. It looked suspiciously like the Primerica meetings i'd been to. Everyone was meeting, shaking hands, talking, etc, and people were just *too* nice to those of us "interviewing."

My name was called. I had to sign a paper saying that I acknowledged I was not employed by the company, and that I could not expect compensation for my time there and would be responsible for my own lunch. Okay then, no problem. I was then taken back to the same room I'd interviewed in the last time. I met a guy named Mike, who would be taking me on my tour. Spooky though was the fact that standing before me were about 12 people, lined up in group-photo style, and Mike told me I'd be "talking to these people later on." Right now I was just to say hi. O-kay then. Mike asked if I was ready to go on the training, and I said yes.

As we were leaving, Mike explained that the job involved going from business to business, and that thye do not 'cold call' in advance. This shocked me, because my husband is in sales and highly experienced, and he had talked about how calling in advance was common courtesy. You don't just walk into someone's business and solicit, especially in security-laden New York. But at Midtown Promotions, you do, apparently. Mike asked me what my experience was, and I said I'd mainly been a counselor before. he gave me a weird look; not sure why, because the job said no experience required.

Mike said that his territories sometimes changed, and that sometimes he would have to go all the way out to Brooklyn or Queens for the day, while other times he'd be right there in midtown Manhattan. I asked him how many "yes's" he usually got from companies considering he did not cold-call. He said "it takes a certain technique," but that he got yes's.

The first three places we went into, Mike was turned away by security on the grounds that he couldn't solicit. He petitioned with the desk people, saying that it wasn't a "sales call." (Then what the hell was it? It's 'outside sales' according to you). Mike's answer was that it's a "courtesy call," because since the companies already have Verizon, it's not soliciting. BUT YOU ARE STILL GOING UNINVITED. Another "oh-kay then."

The next couple places we went, people weren't in yet. But the receptionists who were in gave Mike some really strange, irritated responses because they had no clue what he was there for. He had this pushy way of trying to get names and times out of the secretaries for who was in charge, and what time they'd get in. He got annoyed when the secretaries either didn't know, or didn't want to say.

Several times Mike was asked for a business card. He said he didn't have one; that his company didn't give them out (RED FLAG). He also wondered why he needed one, considering that it was "not a sales call." This did not sit well with anyone.

After watching Mike get all these "no's," I finally asked him how much commission is attainable in addition to the $400-600/week. He said, "Well, if you consider that you make about $60 each time you sign up an account, then 10 yes's a week is about $600." I said "No, I was asking about how much COMMISSION is attainable." Mike looked at me, confused. He said, "Well, some weeks you might have to go to 70-80 places a day to make money, but the statistics will be in your favor."

Finally I came right out and asked him, "Is there a base pay in addition to the commission?" Sheepishly, he replied "no."

I told him that in that case, I found the ad rather deceptive, because it named a salary. He said yes, that's true, but that they believe paying associates base pay makes them "not work as hard." (Actually bozo, it makes them eat and pay rent, which could tend to make folks work harder, I'd say).

Finally I told him that I had just gotten married and graduated, and that I could not afford to play roulette with a commission-only job. He cynically told me, "Well, I just got married too, and we pay the bills just fine." (What, by bartending, probably?). Fortunately though, he did not push, and respected my choice to end the interview there and go home. He said that the purpose of the 2nd interview was to decide if the job was for me or not, and if it's not, then I was free to go. Phew!

After reading other reports on here, I feel lucky that Mike was so nice, and also that I didn't stay long enough to attend an "atmosphere" meeting or anything like that. But since other reports on here sound identical to this, I wouldn't be surprised.

shady, shady people. Always ask about base pay from the get-go.

Lucky
Hoboken, New Jersey
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/04/2004 11:33 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Midtown-Promotions/New-York-New-York-10001/Midtown-Promotions-possibly-A-DS-MAX-Or-CYDCOR-Cousin-SCAM-AD-LIES-ABOUT-POTENTIAL-SALAR-107019. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Top Flight Marketing

AUTHOR: Jolene - (U.S.A.)

I just want to say. I worked for Carl Foss at Top Flight marketing. He is not a scam. Carl is the real deal, he can teach you how to make money and earn it. I am not afraid to put my real name (neither is anyone who answers the phone at Top Flight) because Carl is the nicest, coolest and most dedicated employer I ever worked for. He cares about how his people do and takes them time to train them right. Carl is the good of Granton. There are others out there that aren's but Carl is good people.

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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Top Flight Marketing

AUTHOR: Jolene - (U.S.A.)

I just want to say. I worked for Carl Foss at Top Flight marketing. He is not a scam. Carl is the real deal, he can teach you how to make money and earn it. I am not afraid to put my real name (neither is anyone who answers the phone at Top Flight) because Carl is the nicest, coolest and most dedicated employer I ever worked for. He cares about how his people do and takes them time to train them right. Carl is the good of Granton. There are others out there that aren's but Carl is good people.

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#3 Consumer Comment

Top flight Marketing Scam

AUTHOR: Sonia - (U.S.A.)

Thank God you people do this! I responded to an Ad in the paper; WE WILL TRAIN ACC MAGR/CUST SVC Advance comp has a wide range of clients. Immed openings include: Promotions, Sales, Management,
Paid Training up to $600 a week start. Call Carmen.
When I called I'm sure that was not the real name, but the woman told me where they were located when I asked. They were far. She said wait call our other office closer to you, see if they have any openings.
They scheduled an appointment for me the following day, very much like the interview the first post spoke about. I checked rip off.com thank god after searching the phone number of the company to get their name. Nothing but bad experiences here on them, I cannot afford to learn my lesson the hard way like ome of you.
Thanks So much is all i can say.
Their ad is very misleading like you will earn $600.00 weely to start.
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#4 UPDATE EX-employee responds

S

AUTHOR: R.I.P ODB - (U.S.A.)

kinda liked working at my branch cuz it was kids my own age (just finished college), your allowed and somewhat encouraged to act silly (i'm a goof ball), and i smoked mad weed with my leader and other fellow distributors and leaders (both while at work and after work). o and also wanted to see how good i would be at selling other things besides drugs. so don't censor me, i'm being honest..

but hey enough about me let's break it down for all the parties involved....

alright it's simple marxian economics...your not being paid properly for the amount of work you're putting in, and when you factor in the other costs (gas, lunch, lost benefits, car maintenance, new suites) then you're really losing out. you might get strung along with the whole "will be a branch manager in 3-6 months" crap but honestly there's only so many offices innovage/dsmax wants to open. so what? all 15-30 people in the office are going to be owners? what about the 15-30 people in all the other offices around the country? them too? obviously not...that's why it's a very competitive business...well then that means you're only going to get successful first by exploiting your workers and getting people to stay at a job that's not compensating them well and with a small chance of upward mobility, coupled with a false hope of success. and secondly by selling cheap, third rate products made in sweatshops over in china to unknowing, impulsive consumers out there for a very high profit return (90-95%) that will mostly go to the manager and the corporate people instead of to you(who did all the hard work but is told will be rewarded later,"you'll see") and sometimes you're forced to rip off people in your very own town! i mean considering all the probabilities involved YOU probably won't be promoted to a manager unless you can scam people into sticking with your crew long enough so that you can get promoted, eventhough most of your crew won't even be rewarded/compensated, in those 3-6 months if at all, for all the time and money they put into the company. "just waving a carrot in front the slow turtle." i guess owning your own company is fine and all but i mean a lot of people can make over 100k a yr if they put in the amount of overtime some of these owners and asst managers have to put in. i don't know, i think dsmax/innovage needs those poor brainwashed sales people, who are getting ripped off, a lot more than they do that small percentage of people who can actually succeed in a business like that. if they separated the offices into mgmnt training and sales then the management office would be like 2 or 3 people while the sales office would be like 40-50 people. plus they'd have to give the people in the sales office a bigger commission, otherwise no one would stick around.

it's just easier to combine the two and give the people that are only kept around for sales less money and getting away with it by justifying the rip-off with the whole "it's a management training program, you'll make the real money once you finish training and build a crew and open your own office and etc.." line of bullsh*t. I mean i don't have much morals or much of a conscience (which is prolly why i want to go into the music biz), but even i don't have that utter lack of morality and that void of conscienceness that these owners and other higher ups in this so called "business" must possess in order to succeed. in other words i may be able to be some type of lowlife in the music industry, but most definetly not the type of scumbag you would need to be as an owner. by the way the only reason i stuck around for like 2 weeks was cuz my manager kept saying the company was going to branch out into entertainment.

i didn't stick around long enough to find out what he meant by that but i bet it was either yanni tickets or toy keyboards made in china for 10 cents each but sold in america for a ridiculously low price of 9.99! o plus the stupid sales tax that no one ever wants to pay! hahaha
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#5 UPDATE Employee

Deeper in the rabbit hole.

AUTHOR: Patrick - (U.S.A.)

Yeah it seems midtown promotions is a ds-max
affliate.

On one of the walls is poster of a rhino. And the
poster explains the quality of a rhino. I saw this
poster when i first came there and didnt think much of it.

But looking at it closer,just the other day,there is the DS-max insignia on the lower hand the poster.

Hrmm.....

Why is it that many of the those ds-max affliate companies are situated right around that small area of manhattan?

Just up the road in hotel pennselvania
there a save the children "charity" that runs
it self on the same system.

But instead you have to collect contributions.
and when you make it into leadership you start
getting overrides from the people underneath you.

only good thing i can think of was that it has
a basepay. but like 42 dollars a day *shrug*

I said to myself is this really a charity?
or a get rich quick pyramid scheme in disguise.
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#6 UPDATE EX-employee responds

A bit more info for you Patrick... They are all scumbags, terrible people who will do whatever it takes to put an extra dollar in their pockets.

AUTHOR: Jay - (U.S.A.)

Patrick,

I know Fadia, I worked for the owner who promoted her. Raf Diaz of Universal Online, his office is right up the street at 35 W35th St.

The only thing you got wrong is that secretarys or administrators as they are referred to in DSM don't do interviews. They just answer phones and sit there playing solitaire all day while getting harassed by the managers.

Fadia has had offices around NYC for a while, every one of them has been a failure. I also know she was out of the biz for a while. Perhaps now she is back in as an admin. but with her previous experience as a manager is still doing some interviews. That is the only thing I can come up with.

If this is the case, it wouldn't be the first time Raf has promoted a manager who wound up becoming an administrator. I just don't see him having an administrator sit down to interview a potential mind slave.... It would totally discredit the system and how the advancement works.

Either way, you are lucky that you don't have to deal with them much longer, and even luckier that you don't have Raf Diaz as your manager. They are all scumbags, terrible people who will do whatever it takes to put an extra dollar in their pockets. Just like you wrote in your post about missing lines and paychecks not adding up, all with no explanations. This happens in every office in one form or another.

Cydcor/DS Max and all of their corrupt managers/owners do not care about who they hurt or how many lives they ruin. Its all in a day's work for them. Fortunatly there are places like ROR where we can show them for who they truly are. Good luck in your future endeavors.
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#7 UPDATE Employee

Midtown promotions, Birns, F& F communications exactly like those dreaded ds-max schemes

AUTHOR: Patrick - (U.S.A.)

Hi,
When i saw this site i was shocked, i asked my self questions such as im i involved with a scam company.

Unlike the most of you who see this as a career
opportunity. I was just in it to gain work experience. I didnt need the money, so i could care if i was making very little.

*note -- My parents, sent me to the states for 3 months to learn about the system. You know how the states operates. So i had 3 months of time to kill.

I looked for a job and the first one i got was
Midtown promotions. Same newspaper ad as the one
mentioned at the top. ---

I have something funny for the guy who posted about Midtown promotions. The person that interviewed you,Fadia, is just the secretary. LOL. The real guys are Chris, whom i recently just saw and another owner named Sayel. Sayel is okay on a whole.

Midtown promotions is exactly like those dreaded ds-max schemes. The 5 & 8 factors. The whole, its
not the bum territory its the bum in the territory. When i saw there add it said 400 to 600 dollars earning potential. I thought that was based on experience.
Nothing about it being commision was mentioned.

Now being from an educated background, i knew most of this stuff is crap. Especially when managers says its your fault for not signing enough people up. Listen, no matter how much sales skill you have in the world, you can't make people buy things they dont want and especially in a commission only jobs you will have bad days and good days.

The current campaign Im on is the verizon digital campaign. The dial 9 campaign. When i came to the company i said, okay i can handle it, it was good way for someone with limited knowlegde of the country to gain alot of experience and get to know new york a bit more.

I didnt mind what i was earning, cuz like i said
money wasnt an issue for me. But then one week
i decided to put alot of effort into it and that week took away my whole motivation. Apparently
that was the week alot of the top guys quit.

I remember this person did 20 lines in total for the week, and only got paid on 6 lines.
Normally when you dont get paid on a line that means your applications have been rejected for one reason or the other and they give you back all the applications with nice yellow post-its explaining why this application did not go through.

But this was odd because she never got any applications returned to her. Nothing explaining why she only got paid on 6 lines. This was odd i said to myself how can 14 lines just disappear.
All i remember them telling her was some poor and vague excuse.

Eventually i realised she had enough of this "oppurtunity" and decided it was time to go.
When i started working there i saw alot of people get hired and then just not show up the next day.
They quit cuz they had bills to pay and of course
a job like this wasnt even going to come near to paying their bills.

I just knew that the people there were being suckered into this great oppurtunity. You would see people come into work in morning and look crappy,like they just fixed there clothes together and there were strings hanging out. Just messy and not something good to see.

There is this girl there, who has been there for 4 months. Now i have been there for around 3 to 4 weeks so far and i have never heard her name called up, not ringed the bell or even done a meeting. And she only works there 3 days of the week. So i mean on her "best day" she must do
only 200 dollars. But like i said, that if she was
doing really well.

Other people looked like they really really wanted to quit but decided to give another week. Of course they would be continously be giving it another week. And that would just roll over into
months.

What happened to me was whack because i dont understand how it could have happened. I signed up a customer who had 2 lines. SAW her do the confirmation call. And then to find out it did not make it on my check. Almost as if i didnt do any for that day.
So i asked and the answer given to me was
"Oh its just two lines, dont focus on it,just forget it".
In my mind im thinking WHAT!. Thats 40 dollars. how can you just say that.
Then i thought about the other person who had 14 lines just disappear. I said no wonder i havent seen her since.

What really opened my eyes when i saw other sites
talking about the DS-MAX way of managine firm.
people would have to circle up and do pitching circles and then you would have a meeting followed by an impact or workshop. I was surprised how is this possible.

Luckly for me i dont have bills to pay or expenses that need to be meet, i just cant help thinking about those people who are married and have children.


Now i must say, there are some people who do very well in the company, but im sure those are the same people who will have their pay deducted, because of cancellations next week or which ever following week.

Talking about riding on false dreams, fortunately
my nightmare is almost over with as i will soon be leaving.


Important information.


Midtown promotions, works for Birns,F&F communications...who do they work for DS-MAX or CYDCOR?
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#8 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Just Got Out... Thanks to all!

AUTHOR: Andrew - (U.S.A.)

I just quit my job with a "Cydcor" company today and thank god for it. I was wary of the job from the start, but as a struggling college graduate facing a lot of closed doors, I was happy just to even get a job.

After 3 weeks of 12-hour days and about $500/week, I saw this website as the final straw that led me to stroll into the office today at noon and say NO MAS.

Honestly, you can make a living doing this job (but you have to bust your a*s), and I did find that its great experience for someone wanting to learn about outside sales. However, unless you are willing to sacrifice any other outside interests you may have, and you can rely on other people to help support you, don't take this job.

I was promoted to "leadership" after only a week of working for this company. I soon learned that leadership merely meant being given the added responsibilities of taking out interviews and training new employees.

None of which is compensated. In addition to this, your car expenses (which with Bay Area gas prices at about $2.40 is pretty major) are not re-imbursed whatsoever.

But your manager will tell you not to be concerned b/c you can just "write" all this off. B.S! Luckily my Dad is a tax lawyer and explained to me that my income and deductions would not be nearly enough to qualify in addition to the fact that deductions only save you from paying tax on a portion of your income, but do not nearly equal the expenses.

I was one day called out by an "assistant manager for arriving at 7:31 instead of 7:30 and threatened with "demotion" if it happened again.

Any time I made an observation about something I had learned in the field that was not 100% positive (even if it was a good lesson), I was berated for being negative. It seemed as though having outside interests was frowned upon.

Basically they expected me to dedicate my life to being a door-to-door salesmen because I might one day become a Manager. Well, I highly doubt all 15 (now 14) of the people in my former office will make it to that level, but its not my place to ctell them that, they'll have to learn for themselves.


The people I worked with, even the manager, were not bad people. But I do think they intentionally misrepresent the company and the compensation you will recieve as an employee.

As a leader, I was taught that I should not answer any questions about "compensation" (commission) until lunch time. I also was to tell interviews that as a manager they could expect to make 100K in their first year.

Doing the math, I was making $500 a week, which being generous I'll say is $400 after tax. Getting 23 mpg on my truck and driving about 500 miles (including commute) a week meant I was using about 22 gallons of gas/week. At $2.40 a gallon thats $53 a week on gas alone. Including the $15 on bridge tolls and $50 on lunch, that's $282 a week after tax. Working 55 hours a week (again, that's conservative), I was making:

$5.13 an hour!!! (after tax)

I could make better money donating sperm. Thank you to all on this website for helping me get my head straight. I will take what I learned about sales as the positives and be more wary of my employers in the future.

And by the way, I was described by my assistant manager to my interviews as one of "our top guys" in the office when they were sent off with me. I'm sure they'd be impressed with my $5/hour wages.
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#9 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I Worked For Cor Concepts subsidiary of Cydcor/ worst days of my life

AUTHOR: Shawn - (U.S.A.)

Cydcor is one of those companies like Vector and countless others that promise the world and return on nothing. I worked for Cor Concepts in Bala Cynwd PA for roughly 7 weeks. My team leader was a really nice guy who I befriend(this being the main reason for saying yes after being hired) . After a week of working there i thought it was weird that your pay checks were deferred 2 weeks behind what you were earning.(Lucky for me i had a signifigant ammont of money in the bank from some real estate investments)I started to notices 2-3 weeks in that everyone that was hired with me were no longer there. I inquired and was told these individuals were not producing and were fired. Every morning I would see 10 new faces waiting to be interviewed. Why so many interviews? because everyone Quit!!! Finally week 3 i get a pay check for 170.00. What!!!! i was told that was the week you were training. Whatever i made one sale training because my leader wanted to be shure i was ready. This was comical to me considering they knew my backround as a succussful real estate investor. I learned that every time i made a sale, 50% was withheld or something to that affect. Week 4 pay check 100.00, I realized why everyone was quitting, they were all going broke or were broke to begin with and that why they took the job in the first place. My situation was much different, I didn't need the money, i didn't even need the job. what i was looking for was a change in pace, a career change. I was interested in opening an office. Anyway week 5 185.00 all the while my withholdings are never being paid out to me. Week 6 180.00 "everyones applications have been lost AT&T never got them. Its no big deal, just go back to the business you signed up and explain and resign them up" Screw you!!! you lost them you go back and go sign them up. After that i promptly came down with the flu and went back to real estate. when i went back to get my pay checks owed to me, they never paid my hold backs, They never gave me the itemized list of accepted and rejected applications from at&t. I Currently have my attorney handeling the case and i urge anyone who has had similar experiences to contact me. Cor Concepts/ Cydcor has no idea whats coming. Im sueing Cor Concepts for money owed to me as a matter of principal. I know they have screwed many others. I now also have a MLM business with Pre Paid Legal Services which Mattleman,Weinroth, and Miller have an agreement with. If you have had similar experiences please contact me im in the process of Filing a Class Action Suit Against Cydcor. Cor Concepts has no Idea their being sued yet but, Their notice for my suit will be on their dest in a matter of weeks. I thought these were good friendly people but in all actuality their theives skimming here and there money earned by their employees. contact me Via [email protected]
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