• Report: #241548

Complaint Review: NITEFLIRT - INGENIO - KEEN

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  • Submitted: Fri, March 30, 2007
  • Updated: Sun, February 24, 2008

  • Reported By:Atlanta Georgia
NITEFLIRT - INGENIO - KEEN
100 First Street San Francisco, California U.S.A.

NITEFLIRT - INGENIO - KEEN ripoff Incorrect payments Unwarrented Click Charges System that the CUSTOMERS meaning the BUSINESS OWNERS DO NOT UNDERSTAND Customer service not getting back to us in a timely mannner San Francisco California

*UPDATE Employee: NiteFlirt Keen, Outlandish phone operators making 90K..and LVS System..

*UPDATE Employee: NF A Ripoff, NOT

*UPDATE Employee: NF A Ripoff, NOT

*UPDATE Employee: NF A Ripoff, NOT

*UPDATE Employee: NF A Ripoff, NOT

*UPDATE Employee: Sour grapes

*UPDATE Employee: Sour grapes

*UPDATE Employee: Sour grapes

*UPDATE Employee: Sour grapes

*UPDATE Employee: Your failure is your own.

*UPDATE Employee: Your failure or success is in your hands on Nite Flirt/Keen.

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Ingenio, Keen Niteflirt, is a business that is based on the PAY BY THE CALL SYSTEM. As business owner I commission them to use their service.

I set a price per call, they provide a toll free #, they also process the billing. What they are not understanding is that they are working for Us, the business owners, without us they would not have a business.

This Pay by the call system is completley malfunctioning, yet they are still charging us unbelievable amount for clicks, clicks that are not converting because the phone system is not putting calls through, dropping calls and not even registering that we have gotten calls. Yet we keep seeing large amounts of money being taken from our accounts.

They have instituted a new fearure that uses an LVS to rate our placement for bidding for top spots, with this system the only thing it does is take our money, It is not beneficial for the BUSINESS OWNER. They have made the system impossible to understand. Most businesses have seen a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in Profitability.
They are doing nothing to rectify the system. It now seems they are SCAMMING THEIR CLIENTS. Many of the Business owners are getting ready to file complaints with the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. WE NEED TO SEE WHERE OUR MONEY IIS GOING, WE NEED TO KNOW WHY THE PHONE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING, WHY CALLS ARE BEING DROPEE, NOT RECEIVED AND CUT OFF. After all that is the basis of this business, to provide Pay by the call service.
They are charging us for Clicks, when someone listens to our voice message that states the name of our company and gives an explanation of the service. That is outright fraud.

paypercall.ingenio.com



Teresa
Atlanta, Georgia
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 03/30/2007 11:42 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/NITEFLIRT-INGENIO-KEEN/San-Francisco-California-94105/NITEFLIRT-INGENIO-KEEN-ripoff-Incorrect-payments-Unwarrented-Click-Charges-System-that-241548. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 UPDATE Employee

NiteFlirt Keen, Outlandish phone operators making 90K..and LVS System..

AUTHOR: Carolynsmith - (U.S.A.)

I'm going to keep this extremely concise. It is true...you do have to fend for yourself when working as a phone operator...but the mishaps that have occurred in Niteflirt were more than enough for me to leave and get my own pay per call number...

For Starters The LVS System IS A RIPOFF...your paying per click and not even receiving calls. That of course is on top of the commission payout taken for calls....The Featured System they implemented is NO GOOD AT ALL..and alot of clients did leave niteflirt for this very system. I'm not afraid of change...but i follow my inner voice when someone makes it difficult. The System Winded Up Putting

Niteflirt Above Standard? 'm sorry I've worked on calls for 5 years. A REP HAS NEVER GOTTEN BACK TO ME ON TIME FOR ANY ISSUES I HAD....in those 5 years. Their technical/customer support is no different than an outsourcing company who hires others for low minimum wages. The difference is that atleast someone gets back to you.

And the fact that girls are making 90k?..Yeah Right.....Maybe niteflirt made that..you obviously didn't but if it impresses you to say such by all means go ahead...i have great managing skills and i wasn't pulling that amount..but was working comfortably.

so what now? some girls whine because they're frustrated and don't know what to do.I kind of sympathize but it's survival of the fittest in the phone business..the work must be done.....

I gave up my time at niteflirt as it was taking too much time in my hand and wasn't worth the funds i was making. It was fairly good for the first 3 years. Additionally i've moved on to MY OWN PAY PER CALL LINE..which doesn't charge outlandish prices for phone clicks or commissions...Mind you it does cost a good 800.00 to get the number...And LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE..you have to work on advertising yourself...took me 2 months...I'm making more money then i ever made on niteflirt.

On Niteflirt some girls advertise with royalty/free content ..it's not even them. When they get bashed on their calls for feedback from customers..niteflirt most of the time doesn't do anything to protect the girls and remove the comments..therefore putting a damper on their business. The Guidelines may say no free content can be used or used..i can't recall but the point i'm trying to make is. not only are they ruining their reputation by leaving the girls to fend for themselves..but their showing others just how bad business can be online. You would think they take some initiative..after all they're making us money...but we're making them quadruple the amount.

so sorry but NITEFLIRT gets a whopping D GRADE as they're customer representatives or whoever manages the line have very very very POOR quality service. NITEFLIRT DOES NOT GET BACK TO YOU ON TIME..THEY IMPLEMENT WHAT THEY WANT AS IT IS OBVIOUSLY THEIR BUSINESS AND YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT OR MOVE ON. I KNOW OF 20 GIRLS ALONE THAT STOP EVEN LISTING FOR FEATURING..AND IN MY OPINION THESE WERE SOME OF THE TOP GIRLS ON THE SITE. YOU CAN'T JUST SAY THE NEW SYSTEM WILL WORK GREAT IT'LL BE BETTER IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS....SORRY..THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN...to this day people are still complaining..WHY COMPLAIN? move on or lose yourself in the shuffle making no money.

I can clearly understand the Irate Consumer in this situation...as far as the other stories. sounds like alot of brown nosing girls are not raking in that amount they need to stop fooling themselves.... as they say...Make sure you're ahead of your game..I have no desire of sending any of my friends to niteflirt and am extremely happy with my paypercall service......
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#2 UPDATE Employee

NF A Ripoff, NOT

AUTHOR: Alexis4u - (U.S.A.)

I Am not, nor is anyone who works under this site, an employee, since technically, We are Self Employed . Niteflirt simply provides the hosting on their site for clients and sellers to exchange verbal communications and items that are sold through the internet by Us ( no physical material items, all images and writen items only ) .

Niteflirt is not associated with Keen any longer due to company changes that happened recently during the course of the last part of last year .

This part I partly agree with :

"I set a price per call, they provide a toll free #, they also process the billing. What they are not understanding is that they are working for Us, the business owners, without us they would not have a business."

They do understand that they are working for Us, just as We are working for them . Without Us, they would not have a business, BUT at the same time, We would not have a place to run Our business with a trustworthy company, if it weren't for them either .

And yes, I believe they are trust worthy . I have seen and reviewed other sites that either ended up with a reputatiom of just simply not paying, or not giving sellers choices . There have been sites that give you standard webpage designs ( which are boring ), multiple choice answers when describing Yourself, ONE payment method ( NF has 3 that I think of off the top of My head ), other sites don't advertise ( if they do, it's minimum ) and they may allow you to be on thier site, but they don't give you an option of WHERE You can feature Yourself ( randomly you MIGHT get picked and each time you refresh the site, the first page people change and you may just get overlooked that way, less chance to get a call ) .

In response to this :

" This Pay by the call system is completley malfunctioning, yet they are still charging us unbelievable amount for clicks, clicks that are not converting because the phone system is not putting calls through, dropping calls and not even registering that we have gotten calls. Yet we keep seeing large amounts of money being taken from our accounts. "

The system did have lots tech issues and yes, these things were happening quite a bit, but since the new system was replaced ( updated or whatever ) and the LVS was put into place, the issues seem to have been less frequent as time went on. With the change overs, it was expected to malfunction somewhere . I'm sure they were getting used to it on thier end as We were getting used to it on Ours . Would have sucked to have to shut the site down for days or maybe longer, just to 'make sure everything was ok' . I actually don't think that they would have been able to detect issues if they DIDN'T allow Us to continue to keep taking calls and reporting them . Which is another point connected ~ NF has customer service . REAL people You can call and get things handled in flash . Unlike other companies I have come across where you can NEVER seem to get a hold of anyone ( a real person ). I know some CS at NF by first name . They are polite, well spoken, and knowledgeable . If they can't answer a question, they shoot it over to the proper channels . You might not get the answer you were hoping for, but they DO respond . Sometimes the replies seem 'generic', but they try to at least give you the impression that they are handling it . And they DO .

In reguards to this :

"They have instituted a new fearure that uses an LVS to rate our placement for bidding for top spots, with this system the only thing it does is take our money, It is not beneficial for the BUSINESS OWNER. They have made the system impossible to understand. Most businesses have seen a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in Profitability."

It was hard to understand at first . BUT, after using the new system, it has actually become VERY beneficial for Me and I'm sure Others as well . What I don't understand, is that I joined NF in April 2007 and the LVS didn't go into effect until the latter part of the year of 2007. Did you edit this recently ? Because as I see it personally, and making the system work for Me, it's been nothing but a good thing . HOW you run your business is HOW LVS can work for you . If you get a few calls a day that are short, not many return clients, or what you offer is not what the general population wants, or your rate might be too high, or you don't provide quality service.... has a lot to do with what the LVS can do for a seller and where it places Him or Her or how much she/he has to pay .

Even if calls drop in the middle of a conversation, you didn't miss it . There would no points or penalties related to the LVS . The dropped calls happen occasionally for Me ( once, twice, maybe three times a month at MOST ) and I take several calls during a logged in business day for Me . The click to call ration is just simply that . If a seller has quality service, positive feedback from thier clients, and repeat business, then thier cost for Featuring on the site would be less than One Who does not . Some flirts are even able to pay NOTHING to be Featured at a higher spot than One Who might have to pay $1.00 a click or more to be in the same spot . So, I feel as if it's a 'rewarding' system . The only gripe I have and I don't like, is when you need to take a week off or more and you come back and it seems like it's higher to Feature Yourself, but it's thier company and thier business . They WANT to intice Us to stay available to the public as much as possible . This gives a good reputation for the company and to the Flirts on the site . Clients WANT reliability . We make the site interesting, NF makes the site available . Working hand in hand .

And last but not least to this comment :

"They are doing nothing to rectify the system. It now seems they are SCAMMING THEIR CLIENTS. Many of the Business owners are getting ready to file complaints with the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. WE NEED TO SEE WHERE OUR MONEY IIS GOING, WE NEED TO KNOW WHY THE PHONE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING, WHY CALLS ARE BEING DROPEE, NOT RECEIVED AND CUT OFF. After all that is the basis of this business, to provide Pay by the call service.
They are charging us for Clicks, when someone listens to our voice message that states the name of our company and gives an explanation of the service. That is outright fraud. "

Those are some pretty harsh aligations . "It now seems they are SCAMMING THEIR CLIENTS." They are not 'scamming' anyone here as far as I can tell . A company that hosted it's 'photo content' or even the 'real' flirts, were scamming on NF a while back . They used the site to make girls and guys portray characters for them, paid them technically under the table, and were paying slave wages as far I'm concerned ( because I didn't know any better ), gave them a 'position' to 'manage' other accounts, getting 'managers' to do thier 'dirty' work ( and they did this to almost every girl that they 'hired' ) and come to find out, NF didn't know anything about it until it was reported accidentally by one of thier employees while she was 'working' for them and SHE had to be the One to call about the account and say SHE was the account holder . Seems funny that if you DO have rights to run the business that way, why COULDN'T you call yourself as the company Owner, right ? Their company no longer exsists on the NF platform, several girls never got paid, and there was at LEAST 48 false accounts created that I knew of . That's not including the pages that I never persoanlly saw, but did hear of and knew of the characters that I had no access to with those accounts . They did wrong. THAT'S scamming and scandalous to Me . NF does NOT want anything to do with issues like that . The company took immediate action . They are here as a hosting site . They have NO idea if someone is following the rules correctly, if they are scamming THEM . That same scamming company tried their damnedest to make it so that girl OR guys who caught on to thier 'tricks', COULDN'T create an account on NF . Using the 'employees' email addresses, requesting ANY and ALL phones numbers associated with them, to be provided, and MADE them take 3 characters as of the first week ( that's the NF limit on accounts for one card number or phone number. I had NO idea where thier advertising was done, and they just said many search engines, until I became a 'manager' after just a month and half . I didn't know what i was doing, but the pay sucked and I needed more money, so I chose to accept the 'position' . I've been more aware now because of thier unprofessionalism and learned what they were doing was against the rules ( and for all I know, the law ) If you were referring to "clients" as companies, individuals who are self employed, or callers........... We are ALL effected by the LVS no matter Who We are, or Who We work under . If you are an employer, maybe you should rethink Who you hired . I'm sure you aren't listening in to the calls, but surely You can tell if they have repeat callers and quality ( longer than usual ) calls . Just because the 'spaces' are 'filled' doesn't mean that they are filled with good employees .

The matter of being 'charged for phone clicks', I have to say that THAT is yet ANOTHER way to advertise . NF pays for it, hence We pay for it . You have the opportunity to have the option available WHILE you are on a call, to have callers wait in line for you when you are through . We could have been just stuck with search engines and no callbacks. Most of My calls come from phone clicks and repeat callers . Some guys see the site once, write the number down, or put it in their cell phone and then never come back to the site again . They call the number, here My voice, My description, and call or move on . EVERYONE gets the same treatment . And it works for Me and many others .

Well, I have made enough points on this matter . I don't believe it was scamming, NF provides a great service for sellers and callers, and the overall reputation is above standard compared to other opportunites I've seen from My Own Personal experiences .

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#3 UPDATE Employee

NF A Ripoff, NOT

AUTHOR: Alexis4u - (U.S.A.)

I Am not, nor is anyone who works under this site, an employee, since technically, We are Self Employed . Niteflirt simply provides the hosting on their site for clients and sellers to exchange verbal communications and items that are sold through the internet by Us ( no physical material items, all images and writen items only ) .

Niteflirt is not associated with Keen any longer due to company changes that happened recently during the course of the last part of last year .

This part I partly agree with :

"I set a price per call, they provide a toll free #, they also process the billing. What they are not understanding is that they are working for Us, the business owners, without us they would not have a business."

They do understand that they are working for Us, just as We are working for them . Without Us, they would not have a business, BUT at the same time, We would not have a place to run Our business with a trustworthy company, if it weren't for them either .

And yes, I believe they are trust worthy . I have seen and reviewed other sites that either ended up with a reputatiom of just simply not paying, or not giving sellers choices . There have been sites that give you standard webpage designs ( which are boring ), multiple choice answers when describing Yourself, ONE payment method ( NF has 3 that I think of off the top of My head ), other sites don't advertise ( if they do, it's minimum ) and they may allow you to be on thier site, but they don't give you an option of WHERE You can feature Yourself ( randomly you MIGHT get picked and each time you refresh the site, the first page people change and you may just get overlooked that way, less chance to get a call ) .

In response to this :

" This Pay by the call system is completley malfunctioning, yet they are still charging us unbelievable amount for clicks, clicks that are not converting because the phone system is not putting calls through, dropping calls and not even registering that we have gotten calls. Yet we keep seeing large amounts of money being taken from our accounts. "

The system did have lots tech issues and yes, these things were happening quite a bit, but since the new system was replaced ( updated or whatever ) and the LVS was put into place, the issues seem to have been less frequent as time went on. With the change overs, it was expected to malfunction somewhere . I'm sure they were getting used to it on thier end as We were getting used to it on Ours . Would have sucked to have to shut the site down for days or maybe longer, just to 'make sure everything was ok' . I actually don't think that they would have been able to detect issues if they DIDN'T allow Us to continue to keep taking calls and reporting them . Which is another point connected ~ NF has customer service . REAL people You can call and get things handled in flash . Unlike other companies I have come across where you can NEVER seem to get a hold of anyone ( a real person ). I know some CS at NF by first name . They are polite, well spoken, and knowledgeable . If they can't answer a question, they shoot it over to the proper channels . You might not get the answer you were hoping for, but they DO respond . Sometimes the replies seem 'generic', but they try to at least give you the impression that they are handling it . And they DO .

In reguards to this :

"They have instituted a new fearure that uses an LVS to rate our placement for bidding for top spots, with this system the only thing it does is take our money, It is not beneficial for the BUSINESS OWNER. They have made the system impossible to understand. Most businesses have seen a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in Profitability."

It was hard to understand at first . BUT, after using the new system, it has actually become VERY beneficial for Me and I'm sure Others as well . What I don't understand, is that I joined NF in April 2007 and the LVS didn't go into effect until the latter part of the year of 2007. Did you edit this recently ? Because as I see it personally, and making the system work for Me, it's been nothing but a good thing . HOW you run your business is HOW LVS can work for you . If you get a few calls a day that are short, not many return clients, or what you offer is not what the general population wants, or your rate might be too high, or you don't provide quality service.... has a lot to do with what the LVS can do for a seller and where it places Him or Her or how much she/he has to pay .

Even if calls drop in the middle of a conversation, you didn't miss it . There would no points or penalties related to the LVS . The dropped calls happen occasionally for Me ( once, twice, maybe three times a month at MOST ) and I take several calls during a logged in business day for Me . The click to call ration is just simply that . If a seller has quality service, positive feedback from thier clients, and repeat business, then thier cost for Featuring on the site would be less than One Who does not . Some flirts are even able to pay NOTHING to be Featured at a higher spot than One Who might have to pay $1.00 a click or more to be in the same spot . So, I feel as if it's a 'rewarding' system . The only gripe I have and I don't like, is when you need to take a week off or more and you come back and it seems like it's higher to Feature Yourself, but it's thier company and thier business . They WANT to intice Us to stay available to the public as much as possible . This gives a good reputation for the company and to the Flirts on the site . Clients WANT reliability . We make the site interesting, NF makes the site available . Working hand in hand .

And last but not least to this comment :

"They are doing nothing to rectify the system. It now seems they are SCAMMING THEIR CLIENTS. Many of the Business owners are getting ready to file complaints with the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. WE NEED TO SEE WHERE OUR MONEY IIS GOING, WE NEED TO KNOW WHY THE PHONE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING, WHY CALLS ARE BEING DROPEE, NOT RECEIVED AND CUT OFF. After all that is the basis of this business, to provide Pay by the call service.
They are charging us for Clicks, when someone listens to our voice message that states the name of our company and gives an explanation of the service. That is outright fraud. "

Those are some pretty harsh aligations . "It now seems they are SCAMMING THEIR CLIENTS." They are not 'scamming' anyone here as far as I can tell . A company that hosted it's 'photo content' or even the 'real' flirts, were scamming on NF a while back . They used the site to make girls and guys portray characters for them, paid them technically under the table, and were paying slave wages as far I'm concerned ( because I didn't know any better ), gave them a 'position' to 'manage' other accounts, getting 'managers' to do thier 'dirty' work ( and they did this to almost every girl that they 'hired' ) and come to find out, NF didn't know anything about it until it was reported accidentally by one of thier employees while she was 'working' for them and SHE had to be the One to call about the account and say SHE was the account holder . Seems funny that if you DO have rights to run the business that way, why COULDN'T you call yourself as the company Owner, right ? Their company no longer exsists on the NF platform, several girls never got paid, and there was at LEAST 48 false accounts created that I knew of . That's not including the pages that I never persoanlly saw, but did hear of and knew of the characters that I had no access to with those accounts . They did wrong. THAT'S scamming and scandalous to Me . NF does NOT want anything to do with issues like that . The company took immediate action . They are here as a hosting site . They have NO idea if someone is following the rules correctly, if they are scamming THEM . That same scamming company tried their damnedest to make it so that girl OR guys who caught on to thier 'tricks', COULDN'T create an account on NF . Using the 'employees' email addresses, requesting ANY and ALL phones numbers associated with them, to be provided, and MADE them take 3 characters as of the first week ( that's the NF limit on accounts for one card number or phone number. I had NO idea where thier advertising was done, and they just said many search engines, until I became a 'manager' after just a month and half . I didn't know what i was doing, but the pay sucked and I needed more money, so I chose to accept the 'position' . I've been more aware now because of thier unprofessionalism and learned what they were doing was against the rules ( and for all I know, the law ) If you were referring to "clients" as companies, individuals who are self employed, or callers........... We are ALL effected by the LVS no matter Who We are, or Who We work under . If you are an employer, maybe you should rethink Who you hired . I'm sure you aren't listening in to the calls, but surely You can tell if they have repeat callers and quality ( longer than usual ) calls . Just because the 'spaces' are 'filled' doesn't mean that they are filled with good employees .

The matter of being 'charged for phone clicks', I have to say that THAT is yet ANOTHER way to advertise . NF pays for it, hence We pay for it . You have the opportunity to have the option available WHILE you are on a call, to have callers wait in line for you when you are through . We could have been just stuck with search engines and no callbacks. Most of My calls come from phone clicks and repeat callers . Some guys see the site once, write the number down, or put it in their cell phone and then never come back to the site again . They call the number, here My voice, My description, and call or move on . EVERYONE gets the same treatment . And it works for Me and many others .

Well, I have made enough points on this matter . I don't believe it was scamming, NF provides a great service for sellers and callers, and the overall reputation is above standard compared to other opportunites I've seen from My Own Personal experiences .

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#4 UPDATE Employee

NF A Ripoff, NOT

AUTHOR: Alexis4u - (U.S.A.)

I Am not, nor is anyone who works under this site, an employee, since technically, We are Self Employed . Niteflirt simply provides the hosting on their site for clients and sellers to exchange verbal communications and items that are sold through the internet by Us ( no physical material items, all images and writen items only ) .

Niteflirt is not associated with Keen any longer due to company changes that happened recently during the course of the last part of last year .

This part I partly agree with :

"I set a price per call, they provide a toll free #, they also process the billing. What they are not understanding is that they are working for Us, the business owners, without us they would not have a business."

They do understand that they are working for Us, just as We are working for them . Without Us, they would not have a business, BUT at the same time, We would not have a place to run Our business with a trustworthy company, if it weren't for them either .

And yes, I believe they are trust worthy . I have seen and reviewed other sites that either ended up with a reputatiom of just simply not paying, or not giving sellers choices . There have been sites that give you standard webpage designs ( which are boring ), multiple choice answers when describing Yourself, ONE payment method ( NF has 3 that I think of off the top of My head ), other sites don't advertise ( if they do, it's minimum ) and they may allow you to be on thier site, but they don't give you an option of WHERE You can feature Yourself ( randomly you MIGHT get picked and each time you refresh the site, the first page people change and you may just get overlooked that way, less chance to get a call ) .

In response to this :

" This Pay by the call system is completley malfunctioning, yet they are still charging us unbelievable amount for clicks, clicks that are not converting because the phone system is not putting calls through, dropping calls and not even registering that we have gotten calls. Yet we keep seeing large amounts of money being taken from our accounts. "

The system did have lots tech issues and yes, these things were happening quite a bit, but since the new system was replaced ( updated or whatever ) and the LVS was put into place, the issues seem to have been less frequent as time went on. With the change overs, it was expected to malfunction somewhere . I'm sure they were getting used to it on thier end as We were getting used to it on Ours . Would have sucked to have to shut the site down for days or maybe longer, just to 'make sure everything was ok' . I actually don't think that they would have been able to detect issues if they DIDN'T allow Us to continue to keep taking calls and reporting them . Which is another point connected ~ NF has customer service . REAL people You can call and get things handled in flash . Unlike other companies I have come across where you can NEVER seem to get a hold of anyone ( a real person ). I know some CS at NF by first name . They are polite, well spoken, and knowledgeable . If they can't answer a question, they shoot it over to the proper channels . You might not get the answer you were hoping for, but they DO respond . Sometimes the replies seem 'generic', but they try to at least give you the impression that they are handling it . And they DO .

In reguards to this :

"They have instituted a new fearure that uses an LVS to rate our placement for bidding for top spots, with this system the only thing it does is take our money, It is not beneficial for the BUSINESS OWNER. They have made the system impossible to understand. Most businesses have seen a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in Profitability."

It was hard to understand at first . BUT, after using the new system, it has actually become VERY beneficial for Me and I'm sure Others as well . What I don't understand, is that I joined NF in April 2007 and the LVS didn't go into effect until the latter part of the year of 2007. Did you edit this recently ? Because as I see it personally, and making the system work for Me, it's been nothing but a good thing . HOW you run your business is HOW LVS can work for you . If you get a few calls a day that are short, not many return clients, or what you offer is not what the general population wants, or your rate might be too high, or you don't provide quality service.... has a lot to do with what the LVS can do for a seller and where it places Him or Her or how much she/he has to pay .

Even if calls drop in the middle of a conversation, you didn't miss it . There would no points or penalties related to the LVS . The dropped calls happen occasionally for Me ( once, twice, maybe three times a month at MOST ) and I take several calls during a logged in business day for Me . The click to call ration is just simply that . If a seller has quality service, positive feedback from thier clients, and repeat business, then thier cost for Featuring on the site would be less than One Who does not . Some flirts are even able to pay NOTHING to be Featured at a higher spot than One Who might have to pay $1.00 a click or more to be in the same spot . So, I feel as if it's a 'rewarding' system . The only gripe I have and I don't like, is when you need to take a week off or more and you come back and it seems like it's higher to Feature Yourself, but it's thier company and thier business . They WANT to intice Us to stay available to the public as much as possible . This gives a good reputation for the company and to the Flirts on the site . Clients WANT reliability . We make the site interesting, NF makes the site available . Working hand in hand .

And last but not least to this comment :

"They are doing nothing to rectify the system. It now seems they are SCAMMING THEIR CLIENTS. Many of the Business owners are getting ready to file complaints with the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. WE NEED TO SEE WHERE OUR MONEY IIS GOING, WE NEED TO KNOW WHY THE PHONE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING, WHY CALLS ARE BEING DROPEE, NOT RECEIVED AND CUT OFF. After all that is the basis of this business, to provide Pay by the call service.
They are charging us for Clicks, when someone listens to our voice message that states the name of our company and gives an explanation of the service. That is outright fraud. "

Those are some pretty harsh aligations . "It now seems they are SCAMMING THEIR CLIENTS." They are not 'scamming' anyone here as far as I can tell . A company that hosted it's 'photo content' or even the 'real' flirts, were scamming on NF a while back . They used the site to make girls and guys portray characters for them, paid them technically under the table, and were paying slave wages as far I'm concerned ( because I didn't know any better ), gave them a 'position' to 'manage' other accounts, getting 'managers' to do thier 'dirty' work ( and they did this to almost every girl that they 'hired' ) and come to find out, NF didn't know anything about it until it was reported accidentally by one of thier employees while she was 'working' for them and SHE had to be the One to call about the account and say SHE was the account holder . Seems funny that if you DO have rights to run the business that way, why COULDN'T you call yourself as the company Owner, right ? Their company no longer exsists on the NF platform, several girls never got paid, and there was at LEAST 48 false accounts created that I knew of . That's not including the pages that I never persoanlly saw, but did hear of and knew of the characters that I had no access to with those accounts . They did wrong. THAT'S scamming and scandalous to Me . NF does NOT want anything to do with issues like that . The company took immediate action . They are here as a hosting site . They have NO idea if someone is following the rules correctly, if they are scamming THEM . That same scamming company tried their damnedest to make it so that girl OR guys who caught on to thier 'tricks', COULDN'T create an account on NF . Using the 'employees' email addresses, requesting ANY and ALL phones numbers associated with them, to be provided, and MADE them take 3 characters as of the first week ( that's the NF limit on accounts for one card number or phone number. I had NO idea where thier advertising was done, and they just said many search engines, until I became a 'manager' after just a month and half . I didn't know what i was doing, but the pay sucked and I needed more money, so I chose to accept the 'position' . I've been more aware now because of thier unprofessionalism and learned what they were doing was against the rules ( and for all I know, the law ) If you were referring to "clients" as companies, individuals who are self employed, or callers........... We are ALL effected by the LVS no matter Who We are, or Who We work under . If you are an employer, maybe you should rethink Who you hired . I'm sure you aren't listening in to the calls, but surely You can tell if they have repeat callers and quality ( longer than usual ) calls . Just because the 'spaces' are 'filled' doesn't mean that they are filled with good employees .

The matter of being 'charged for phone clicks', I have to say that THAT is yet ANOTHER way to advertise . NF pays for it, hence We pay for it . You have the opportunity to have the option available WHILE you are on a call, to have callers wait in line for you when you are through . We could have been just stuck with search engines and no callbacks. Most of My calls come from phone clicks and repeat callers . Some guys see the site once, write the number down, or put it in their cell phone and then never come back to the site again . They call the number, here My voice, My description, and call or move on . EVERYONE gets the same treatment . And it works for Me and many others .

Well, I have made enough points on this matter . I don't believe it was scamming, NF provides a great service for sellers and callers, and the overall reputation is above standard compared to other opportunites I've seen from My Own Personal experiences .

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#5 UPDATE Employee

NF A Ripoff, NOT

AUTHOR: Alexis4u - (U.S.A.)

I Am not, nor is anyone who works under this site, an employee, since technically, We are Self Employed . Niteflirt simply provides the hosting on their site for clients and sellers to exchange verbal communications and items that are sold through the internet by Us ( no physical material items, all images and writen items only ) .

Niteflirt is not associated with Keen any longer due to company changes that happened recently during the course of the last part of last year .

This part I partly agree with :

"I set a price per call, they provide a toll free #, they also process the billing. What they are not understanding is that they are working for Us, the business owners, without us they would not have a business."

They do understand that they are working for Us, just as We are working for them . Without Us, they would not have a business, BUT at the same time, We would not have a place to run Our business with a trustworthy company, if it weren't for them either .

And yes, I believe they are trust worthy . I have seen and reviewed other sites that either ended up with a reputatiom of just simply not paying, or not giving sellers choices . There have been sites that give you standard webpage designs ( which are boring ), multiple choice answers when describing Yourself, ONE payment method ( NF has 3 that I think of off the top of My head ), other sites don't advertise ( if they do, it's minimum ) and they may allow you to be on thier site, but they don't give you an option of WHERE You can feature Yourself ( randomly you MIGHT get picked and each time you refresh the site, the first page people change and you may just get overlooked that way, less chance to get a call ) .

In response to this :

" This Pay by the call system is completley malfunctioning, yet they are still charging us unbelievable amount for clicks, clicks that are not converting because the phone system is not putting calls through, dropping calls and not even registering that we have gotten calls. Yet we keep seeing large amounts of money being taken from our accounts. "

The system did have lots tech issues and yes, these things were happening quite a bit, but since the new system was replaced ( updated or whatever ) and the LVS was put into place, the issues seem to have been less frequent as time went on. With the change overs, it was expected to malfunction somewhere . I'm sure they were getting used to it on thier end as We were getting used to it on Ours . Would have sucked to have to shut the site down for days or maybe longer, just to 'make sure everything was ok' . I actually don't think that they would have been able to detect issues if they DIDN'T allow Us to continue to keep taking calls and reporting them . Which is another point connected ~ NF has customer service . REAL people You can call and get things handled in flash . Unlike other companies I have come across where you can NEVER seem to get a hold of anyone ( a real person ). I know some CS at NF by first name . They are polite, well spoken, and knowledgeable . If they can't answer a question, they shoot it over to the proper channels . You might not get the answer you were hoping for, but they DO respond . Sometimes the replies seem 'generic', but they try to at least give you the impression that they are handling it . And they DO .

In reguards to this :

"They have instituted a new fearure that uses an LVS to rate our placement for bidding for top spots, with this system the only thing it does is take our money, It is not beneficial for the BUSINESS OWNER. They have made the system impossible to understand. Most businesses have seen a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in Profitability."

It was hard to understand at first . BUT, after using the new system, it has actually become VERY beneficial for Me and I'm sure Others as well . What I don't understand, is that I joined NF in April 2007 and the LVS didn't go into effect until the latter part of the year of 2007. Did you edit this recently ? Because as I see it personally, and making the system work for Me, it's been nothing but a good thing . HOW you run your business is HOW LVS can work for you . If you get a few calls a day that are short, not many return clients, or what you offer is not what the general population wants, or your rate might be too high, or you don't provide quality service.... has a lot to do with what the LVS can do for a seller and where it places Him or Her or how much she/he has to pay .

Even if calls drop in the middle of a conversation, you didn't miss it . There would no points or penalties related to the LVS . The dropped calls happen occasionally for Me ( once, twice, maybe three times a month at MOST ) and I take several calls during a logged in business day for Me . The click to call ration is just simply that . If a seller has quality service, positive feedback from thier clients, and repeat business, then thier cost for Featuring on the site would be less than One Who does not . Some flirts are even able to pay NOTHING to be Featured at a higher spot than One Who might have to pay $1.00 a click or more to be in the same spot . So, I feel as if it's a 'rewarding' system . The only gripe I have and I don't like, is when you need to take a week off or more and you come back and it seems like it's higher to Feature Yourself, but it's thier company and thier business . They WANT to intice Us to stay available to the public as much as possible . This gives a good reputation for the company and to the Flirts on the site . Clients WANT reliability . We make the site interesting, NF makes the site available . Working hand in hand .

And last but not least to this comment :

"They are doing nothing to rectify the system. It now seems they are SCAMMING THEIR CLIENTS. Many of the Business owners are getting ready to file complaints with the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. WE NEED TO SEE WHERE OUR MONEY IIS GOING, WE NEED TO KNOW WHY THE PHONE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING, WHY CALLS ARE BEING DROPEE, NOT RECEIVED AND CUT OFF. After all that is the basis of this business, to provide Pay by the call service.
They are charging us for Clicks, when someone listens to our voice message that states the name of our company and gives an explanation of the service. That is outright fraud. "

Those are some pretty harsh aligations . "It now seems they are SCAMMING THEIR CLIENTS." They are not 'scamming' anyone here as far as I can tell . A company that hosted it's 'photo content' or even the 'real' flirts, were scamming on NF a while back . They used the site to make girls and guys portray characters for them, paid them technically under the table, and were paying slave wages as far I'm concerned ( because I didn't know any better ), gave them a 'position' to 'manage' other accounts, getting 'managers' to do thier 'dirty' work ( and they did this to almost every girl that they 'hired' ) and come to find out, NF didn't know anything about it until it was reported accidentally by one of thier employees while she was 'working' for them and SHE had to be the One to call about the account and say SHE was the account holder . Seems funny that if you DO have rights to run the business that way, why COULDN'T you call yourself as the company Owner, right ? Their company no longer exsists on the NF platform, several girls never got paid, and there was at LEAST 48 false accounts created that I knew of . That's not including the pages that I never persoanlly saw, but did hear of and knew of the characters that I had no access to with those accounts . They did wrong. THAT'S scamming and scandalous to Me . NF does NOT want anything to do with issues like that . The company took immediate action . They are here as a hosting site . They have NO idea if someone is following the rules correctly, if they are scamming THEM . That same scamming company tried their damnedest to make it so that girl OR guys who caught on to thier 'tricks', COULDN'T create an account on NF . Using the 'employees' email addresses, requesting ANY and ALL phones numbers associated with them, to be provided, and MADE them take 3 characters as of the first week ( that's the NF limit on accounts for one card number or phone number. I had NO idea where thier advertising was done, and they just said many search engines, until I became a 'manager' after just a month and half . I didn't know what i was doing, but the pay sucked and I needed more money, so I chose to accept the 'position' . I've been more aware now because of thier unprofessionalism and learned what they were doing was against the rules ( and for all I know, the law ) If you were referring to "clients" as companies, individuals who are self employed, or callers........... We are ALL effected by the LVS no matter Who We are, or Who We work under . If you are an employer, maybe you should rethink Who you hired . I'm sure you aren't listening in to the calls, but surely You can tell if they have repeat callers and quality ( longer than usual ) calls . Just because the 'spaces' are 'filled' doesn't mean that they are filled with good employees .

The matter of being 'charged for phone clicks', I have to say that THAT is yet ANOTHER way to advertise . NF pays for it, hence We pay for it . You have the opportunity to have the option available WHILE you are on a call, to have callers wait in line for you when you are through . We could have been just stuck with search engines and no callbacks. Most of My calls come from phone clicks and repeat callers . Some guys see the site once, write the number down, or put it in their cell phone and then never come back to the site again . They call the number, here My voice, My description, and call or move on . EVERYONE gets the same treatment . And it works for Me and many others .

Well, I have made enough points on this matter . I don't believe it was scamming, NF provides a great service for sellers and callers, and the overall reputation is above standard compared to other opportunites I've seen from My Own Personal experiences .

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#6 UPDATE Employee

Sour grapes

AUTHOR: Quitcryingloser - (U.S.A.)

Keen, Ingenio, and Niteflirt have been a huge success for me! The LVS system was implemented over the summer so I don't how it was receiving complaints in March. Maybe
Teresa had a psychic line. They are by far the best the business. I have accounts on other platforms as well, there is no comparison. Kasamba has offered me nothing but spam and nuisance requests. There is real money to be made on these sites, it's like stealing money, sometimes. It takes me two years to make the 80-90K of the previous poster, but I do very well. If you don't have good business sense, this is not the platform for you. I have worked these sites for three years and I've never been cheated out of a nickel! Filing a rip off report in this situation is just an abuse of this site.
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#7 UPDATE Employee

Sour grapes

AUTHOR: Quitcryingloser - (U.S.A.)

Keen, Ingenio, and Niteflirt have been a huge success for me! The LVS system was implemented over the summer so I don't how it was receiving complaints in March. Maybe
Teresa had a psychic line. They are by far the best the business. I have accounts on other platforms as well, there is no comparison. Kasamba has offered me nothing but spam and nuisance requests. There is real money to be made on these sites, it's like stealing money, sometimes. It takes me two years to make the 80-90K of the previous poster, but I do very well. If you don't have good business sense, this is not the platform for you. I have worked these sites for three years and I've never been cheated out of a nickel! Filing a rip off report in this situation is just an abuse of this site.
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#8 UPDATE Employee

Sour grapes

AUTHOR: Quitcryingloser - (U.S.A.)

Keen, Ingenio, and Niteflirt have been a huge success for me! The LVS system was implemented over the summer so I don't how it was receiving complaints in March. Maybe
Teresa had a psychic line. They are by far the best the business. I have accounts on other platforms as well, there is no comparison. Kasamba has offered me nothing but spam and nuisance requests. There is real money to be made on these sites, it's like stealing money, sometimes. It takes me two years to make the 80-90K of the previous poster, but I do very well. If you don't have good business sense, this is not the platform for you. I have worked these sites for three years and I've never been cheated out of a nickel! Filing a rip off report in this situation is just an abuse of this site.
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#9 UPDATE Employee

Sour grapes

AUTHOR: Quitcryingloser - (U.S.A.)

Keen, Ingenio, and Niteflirt have been a huge success for me! The LVS system was implemented over the summer so I don't how it was receiving complaints in March. Maybe
Teresa had a psychic line. They are by far the best the business. I have accounts on other platforms as well, there is no comparison. Kasamba has offered me nothing but spam and nuisance requests. There is real money to be made on these sites, it's like stealing money, sometimes. It takes me two years to make the 80-90K of the previous poster, but I do very well. If you don't have good business sense, this is not the platform for you. I have worked these sites for three years and I've never been cheated out of a nickel! Filing a rip off report in this situation is just an abuse of this site.
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#10 UPDATE Employee

Your failure is your own.

AUTHOR: Phoenix - (U.S.A.)

Let me start off by thanking Keen Nite Flirt with all my heart. I cleared close to $80,000 last year. Yep, I really did. How?

By hard work! By staying logged on. Not by whining, and not by pointing my finger at a company that makes hard working women tons of money.

All the rules and regulations are clearly marked under "Terms of Service" on the Nite Flirt board. If you didn't get it, then it's your fault.

Good luck making this kind of money while sipping a glass of wine at home!

Cheers! :)
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#11 UPDATE Employee

Your failure or success is in your hands on Nite Flirt/Keen.

AUTHOR: Phoenix - (U.S.A.)

I have been working on the adult side of Keen/Night Flirt for a few years now. This my only source of income, and last year I pulled in $98,000. Seriously, I did.

It can be done.

Obviously, you are blaming Nite Flirt for your failure, and aren't taking any kind of responsibility.

There are a hundred and one things that a operator can do to ensure success and good income. Besides belly aching, what steps have you taken?

Just wondering.......
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