New York Life rip-off employers! No salary! To break even, you need to sell at least 6 policies ($1200) per week! New York, New York

My original rebuttal was in 2006; my second in 2009, and now in 2013 I thought I would amend and clarify my remarks - for those that may be interested.

Although I neglected to mention it in my 2009 post, I was no longer an employee of NY Life and went back to field as an agent (actually as a financial advisor).  Most of my insurance related product sales are with NY Life, but I am free to place my client's business with any carrier I want to.

I wanted to address two recent comments in particular:  Post #19 stated some clearly slanderous accusations.  First off, NY Life is no more a network marketing scheme than is any major business in America.  I don't know about you, but most Fortune 500 companies will pay a "finder's fee" if you refer a high value prospect for employment (unless of course, your job IS human resources).  Beyond that, if you do refer a potential hire, they are not "under you" in any way shape of form.  Frankly, in your first few years, you are virtually incompetent and in no shape to "lead" anyone else.  This is why on any case that is more than basic you have a manager or experienced agent do joint work with you.

You certainly implied in your post that the company picks 'white guys' to be on the fast track and run off the colored and women folk and give all the tilled soil to the preferred white boys.   What a absolute crock!  And shameful!  In my office, almost all the management is minority and women!  Further, there is more than a fair share of women in the top agent ranks in the company.

My second point deals with the lifelong training and specifically the 3 years of intensive training up front.  A few other posters were quite accurate in pointing out that any profession requires ongoing training.  No, they don't teach you how to sell term insurance for 3 years ... they build on the previous lessons.  Training takes you on a path where you are no longer selling term but perhaps MECing policies to create high TEY of 8-9% on fixed deposits (crushing the heck outta CDs).  Or, perhaps they want you to understand how to leverage a discounted gifting regime that funds life insurance in an IDGT with GST provisions.  Heck, why not also add in a Grantor Retained Annuity Trust.

Without some additional training along the way, you wouldn't even know what you didn't know.  Puhleese, don't whine about training.  Be thankful for it and for the benefits it will bring.  These advanced types of cases, especially when done as the base of your business, will generate incomes for you and savings for your clients that are so far beyond the pale that if I outlined them in detail here, many would think I was flat out lying.  But suffice it to say, wealthy and affluent clients see the benefits very quickly and are usually successful because they are decisive.  They eat this stuff up.  Frankly, it is easier than selling a term policy (takes longer - but way easier).

I am of decent intelligence (perhaps a little above the average).  I work; harder when I have to.  I am pretty good at organization and time management.  I have been in the business now for 10 years and have my own dedicated office building with a staff of 7.  I have helped numerous clients and I stress a lot on doing a great job for them.  We have also had some very nice blessings from God - which I certainly do not deserve (but for which I am thankful).  There have been a lot of people who have made my career successful and two of the most important are my wife and my New York Life.

Sure, as said before, the company sucks at some stuff.  Every place does.  But you really would be hard pressed to find a better company.  If you are interested in your own business and willing to work and study hard, this is the place you should consider.  They really do what is best for their clients and their agents!

(((ROR redacted)))
CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report. Once lawyers are willing to take on a case against a business, those lawyers will make arrangements with Rip-off Report to put alleged victims in touch with them. Read this link to see why this is for your own protection.

I usually a very modest title because I have seen both sides of NY Life. I had the benefit of working in more than one NY Life office, an occurance that is rare in this company on an agency level. I worked with two managers (a term synonymous with the official title of Partner in the company) and they were polar opposites. Which can be said about virtually any business in any industry. One person in one office in one company in one industry can be the spawn of Satan without an entire company or industry being Hell. I worked at a sandwich shop to help me get through college. I had one manager who was one of the nicest and sweetest individuals I have ever met, and another who was downright cruel and once tried to deny employees on 8 hour shifts water during a drought (true story).

I had one manager who expected me to make sales to friends and family and when I couldn't sell to them (or anyone else for that matter), he told me I wasn't cut out for the business. It didn't help that he never came with me to client appointments and I learned almost nothing from him. I was then moved to a different manager in a different NY office and am still with the company. This second manager trained me, came with me to client appointments, helped me make sales. And while my career hasn't been long so far, it has potential. So I have to work hard, grow a client base, and invest in my business. That sounds very familiar. Hmm...much like my grandfather, who opened his own company. He had to work long hours, initially for little pay, while investing in his business and growing his client base. The only real difference I see is that I get bonuses while I grow my business

Here's an honest breakdown: I pay for my phone and internet. Maybe $4/month? I'll live. I pay NAIFA dues. I pay for E&O insurance (essentially liability insurance, something almost all business professionals have). My licensing and subsequent financial education has been free. I pay for networking events (all by choice) because I want to meet new people and grow my book of business. I don't pay rent. I don't buy computers, except for the one I independently chose to buy at Best Buy because I needed it. If I want to move to an office I'll pay office rent, something I would need to do anyway if I left my NY Life office and opened up my own location (something agents do actually do). Someone mentioned having to go in for 2 hour meetings? Get used to meetings people. Every business has meetings. I still remember my father complaining about meetings at the company he managed! Meetings he called for! You want to be a professional, you'll attend meetings.

I don't know what people are talking about when they say they have to pay $3,000/month to established agents to work with them. I've never done that. And I do work with established agents. I will give them 50% of my commission. First, commission sharing is common in many sales positions. And if a 20 or 30 year agent is going to help me close a hefty buy/sell for a few business owners, of course I'll give him half. Half of something is better than all of nothing. Most of the time though, my partner will help me close a deal that may be over my head without me sacrficing any of my commissions

As for commissions and bonuses, the initial report has these numbers grossly overstated. Triggering the bonuses in your first year; $500 in commission and 3 policies in ONE MONTH. That will trigger bonus compensation. Doing that bare minimum to get by in the company will mean they will pay you $1,125. Income that is more than double your actual commission production. If you did the 24 policies and $4,800 in a month that Mr. Paul claimed was required (6 policies and 1200 in commission/week), that would mean $7,570 in actual income in a month. I'd be ok with that. But that's where I warn to watch your expectations. Because you will not do that just by showing up. You will work hard. You will work long hours. It will be exhausting. And if you can stick it out, it is worth it. If it was easy and you were guaranteed to making a ton of money no matter how much effort you put in, everyone would be doing it.

With benefits, I never once blaimed NY Life for making me wait until I had reached a certain point to get my benefits. After watching how many people have come and gone in this business, I'm not surprised. Someone joins the company gets benefts, never works, uses the benefits, leaves, all without making a dollar. NY Life pays for everything in the training process. So yeah, they want to see you stick around before they offer benefits. By the way, I have better benefits than any of my friends. I have a pension. How many former NY Life agents here moved to a company that has a pension that they don't have to pay a dime into?

As for not having a salary, my residual income creates a base salary that grows every year. And if you had clients drop off after you left, as was one of the complaints, and NY Life asked for the commission back, is that all? You did a terrible job with your clients, left, and then they cancelled their policies because you did a terrible job and then left. So NYL asked for the money they paid you back for doing said terrible job.

I don't cold call. I don't solicit family or friends that haven't already expressed a need for my services. Oh, and did I mention I have a pension that I don't need to contribute to? Because I cannot overstate how amazing that is.

First of all I would imagine that most of you posting negative comments about Nee York Life did not make it in the start of your new venture. To be an insurance agent you have to WORK. It's not a 40 hour work week for at least the first three years. I have been with New York Life for 3 months now and I'm making more money than I know what to do with. I will say that there are some things you have to have in place before being able to start a career in this industry but anyone who thinks that they can leave New York Life and do better at another company is mistaken.

New York Life has the best training in the industry hands down. Do your research. They also own 12 percent of the market and have 17 billion dollars to start over with if they would have to pay out everything in force as of the current date. No other company come close. There are only 3 companies that even begin to compete with us. If you cannot sell your product to people that you know your relationship with them is not what you thought it was. If you listen when you attend an interview you would've gotten all this information correct. If you sold 6 policies every week you would be looking at over 100,000 dollars in your first year. If that isn't enough you might think about adjusting your budget.

I love working for this company. Like my colleague said earlier it is what you make it and they do not charge me for anything. I have a desk, a phone, business cards, planners, marketing material, presentation material, should I continue? I did not pay for any of this. The amount of business you have to do to become a full time agent is not a difficult thing to obtain. If you are waking up at 10 am and clocking off at 4 pm everyday then you were doomed from the start. I would love for anyone on here to email me with any arguments they have as to why New York Life is not the best and most prestigious life insurance company existing I would love to hear your reasoning.

I will definitely answer you back with more facts than you can combat on the topic of your choice. The oldest and the biggest. Dividends paid every year since before your grandparents were born. We made other companies pay during 911 when everyone else was willing to leave their clients out to dry we stepped up and paid all those claims because we can. That's why people choose our company because they get their check in days. Other companies take months and some will do what they can to deny your claim.

I have been through everything you have and I can definitely say you are way off base if you are trying to say that the company is the reason you couldn't succeed. You are the reason you succeed or fail. Work hard and with the way New York Life compensates their agents you will be able to play golf 3 days a week when you're 35 and still bring in more than most people make in this country today. Also for your warm market the point is to practice with people you know and get referrals from them. Then you follow those leads to write business. And as far as agents are concerned I haven't met a potential client yet that values a 1-800 company or dot com firm over the personal experience and customer service you receive from New York Life. If you actually own life insurance you would know that when you have questions or need to perform changes on your policy you are better off beating up a tree then trying to get help from someone who operates strictly online or over the phone. With New York Life you call a person you know in your community that listens to your problem or question and handles it for you in a timely manner.

CASE CLOSED. LOL

I was an agent for over 5 years (the first paper certificate in a $.10 frame).  New York Life is based on an "Agency System".  Management runs the office very similarly to that of a network marketing company.  You get paid, based on what you sell, with no inventory to carry, get paid bonuses on volume, and get rewarded for every person you get hired "under you" (10% equivalent of hired person's 1st year commissions).  Management picks and chooses who will be their stars, and places them in a 2-year fast track to manager level ("Partner", because it sounds cooler).  The fast track includes "shared work" with agents who aren't chosen for the fast-track, and leads to the un-chosen washing out (leaving all of their clients and contacts with the chosen agent).  This is also useful, when they select 1 minority and 1 or 2  females to go on all of the appointments with agents who resemble them.  They pad the stats of the chosen agent, dodge NAACP and EOE regulations, and wash out the rest of the minorities and women (reload, and wash them out again).  2 years go by, the chosen agents go into management, start hand-picking and training the next set of agents, and the process repeats.  Oh!  If you have friends who have lots of money to rollover, or leave another company and rollover all of your clients, you can fast-track in less than a year.  You haven't really done anything, but you get credit as if every client that you stole from your previous company, or rich friend, was a "tough sale".  The star witness in their defense, which remains undefeated, is that they have the best products and best name in the industry.  When you leave, I'd suggest that you change careers.  How do you truly care about the people you helped, and return to them with less than the best available to them?

Like many other financial services companies, agents need to work their way to their contacts and attempt to sell insurance. Is it true that one will fail without selling to families and a book of contacts to start with NYL? If one does not wish to destroy their relationship with their friends and families, can one be successful based on cold-calling?

I commented back in 1996 and thought a follow up was warranted:

There are several posters who have complained like petulant children about how unfair life is and how dastardly NYL has treated them. To them, I will simply echo the previous poster to me: Grow up. Life is not fair. All you can hope for is a fair opportunity and having now been at NYL for close to six years, I can most certainly assure you that you get a fair share (from the company level).

I do want to comment on two specific areas. First, the expensive term and the strict underwriting. OH MY LORD! I'll bet that Anonymous in Long Beach sees it a little differently now. Perhaps the truth is not that clients were overpaying at NYL but that they were underpaying elsewhere. The fact that most of the "cheaper" companies are now on the brink of financial collapse bears this out. Those "much tauted" financial ratings also seem to have been more important now than the poster thought back in the day. You can get a Kia for 10K, if you want quality like a Lexus or Mercedes ... dont be infantile and want it for 10K.

Secondly, JW in Charleston is the epitome of someone who will be successful. In his post he TAKES RESPONSIBILITY for his choices and actions. He UNDERSTANDS the basics of STARTING HIS OWN BUSINESS (long hours, personal investment, etc). He has a POSITIVE (not whiny) attitude.

I am also retired military (USA) and my income has consistently been beyond my expectations. Further, the support I get from the company is also beyond my expectations. Sure, I have some bitches about the company. No where is perfect. But that said, it is nothing like a rip off and people who say it are, are shameful. Though, this being America and all ... I respect their right to act shamefully - but not to lie in the process.

Paul, I'm going to be brutally honest with you because obviously your parental figures were not. It's time to grow up. Did you learn anything in college? When you apply to NYL, they have four interviews to protect you and them. It takes over 250K to properly train an agent over a three year period. We don't want to hire the wrong person and waste our money and energy, but more importantly, we don't want to hire the wrong person and hurt them.

The $ 1200 per week that you quoted equates to over 50K per year. What kind of math did they teach at your college? I'd suggest that you complain about that instead. If an agent produced that kind of commission per week, his or her income would far exceed even that figure.

My title was grow up so here it is.... If you were to invest in any business.. ie McDonalds, Subway, Pizza Hut etc... your investment would be well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. New York Life wants you to pay for a phone, a small cubicle and invest some sweat for a few years in return for their investment in you. I'm proud to say some of the finest people I know represent the company you disparaged. And by the way, name some large financial institutions that did not go backward or belly-up during this terrible economic period. New York Life won't be on your list.

I'm really sorry that you felt you have been ripped off. My late husband worked for New York Life for 30 years. He worked very hard, believed that he was really helping people and the result was a very fortunate life style for us. I was with him when a friend of mine lost her husband, who was insured with New York Life. My husband was there immediately. He was the only one to put her mind at ease financially while she was going through such a devastating loss. Her husband had protected her financially in case this were to happen. Later when my husband died New York Life was there again, this time for me. There was life insurance payout but also a lifetime income for me because of his 30 years with New York Life. He believed in what he did and wanted to provide for me after he died. You have to look at the whole picture. Be passionate about helping people, god know's they especially need someone to help them during these times we're going through. It's a tough business to do well in. You can't look at the clock, but concetrate on developing new friends and acquaintances every chance you get. They will become clients when they like and trust you. Many people are making exceptional income with New York Life. Everyone of them that I personally know are passionate about what they do.

First, let me say I'm sorry to those of you that have had a bad experience w/ NYL. Now, I've gotta say my experience has been completely different! I've been in the game for about a year and a half now, just made my first council:)(those in the industry know what this means.) I'm a former U.S. Marine with no warm market at all, didn't finish college either.

I have a pretty good level of intellect I think, always high test scores and stuff like that. I just wanted to be a Marine. I have a family now so maybe getting shot at just didn't seem all that appealing anymore?:> I got several calls from Eric Cox, the Senior Partner in the Charleston, SC office. I finally relented and came in for an interview, I made it and came on board. He told me the whole truth and nothing but the truth! Let me explain something... THIS IS HARD!!!!

This is just as difficult as being a U.S. Marine, just a different kind of difficult! I made it by cold-calling and doorknocking, doing survey cards. I still do it and am trying to become refferral driven. For those of you who don't know, about 10% of Charleston has money, the rest pretty much have squat!

You gotta work for it! Care about people, care about helping people! All these classes are fantastic! I'm in NAIFA here in Charleston and meet agents from other companies all the time. When we have conversations, most of the stuff I try to talk about from a sales or product standpoint, ways to help clients, they've never heard of it!

I'm ranting, I'm sorry! Fact is, this has meant so much to me that I had to put in my two cents! Dude, write 6 apps a week, you are a hitter! Really it's more like 6 a month will get you by. My average commission is around $500. 6 x 500 is 3,000. Plus, training allowance, plus case rate bonus, plus expense allowance, etc, etc. Simply put, If you work hard, you will make money!

How many biz owners do you know that don't start out working 80-100 hours per week? 95% of the folks in my office are just great people to know and work with! Our classes are great, team meetings are great, my weekly one-on-one w/ Eric is great! I love it! Honestly, sounds to me like you just didn't want it?

I have seen people come and go in a year and a half. Everyone of them that I can recall though, I can also recall their avoidance behaviors. I encourage anyone reading this thinking of a Career in Insurance and Financial Services to check out NYL! Infact, I implore you to make it your first choice! I know I would have never made it anywhere else!

Thanks!
JW
Charleston, SC
#1 Office In the Country!

I have read all the comments here, and I have to say the negatives are absolutely true. However, it is possible to make it with NYL, but it is also possible to hit the lotery. I am now with a company that did put me on a salary to start, and I have earned my way off of it. They didn't require 200 names nor did they require me to be in a classroom for 3 yrs. My opinion of NYL is that the mgnt. structure is flawed. It is a fine company that has lost it's way but can afford to do so due to it's size. It has become very restrictive in who it will cover and to be quite honest, a lot of the population does'nt fit it's criteria. One thing is certain, your experience depends entirely on what GO (general office) you will be working from.

Basic truths about New York Life:

-Working for New York Life means you will be selling an expensive and mediocre product in most cases to people you know well.

-New agents are generally expected to fail which is a common thing in financial services.

-It is a great business for those who produce well and early. Generally a bad business for the young and unconnected great for those with an existing book of contacts.

-There is very little expertise in the NYL management. In my office few if any managers knew anything about investments or insurance that was not part of the company's propaganda.

-The training at New York Life is mostly about how much you get paid for the products you sell and other motivational propaganda. Very little of it has anything to do with actual sales strategies or product knowledge.

-For higher net worth individuals with estate planning concerns or business insurance needs and other complicated situations NYL is a great match. For middle market America NYL is a source of expensive term insurance and strict underwriting.

-Most insurance companies have the financial strength to pay out their term policies the much tauted financial strength of New York Life is easy to achieve when most of their customers overpay.

-General Offices at NYL are run like franchises. The managing partners have great discretion in how they run things so my experiences may be very different than those of others.

-For agents who have the resources and abilities to be top producers few companies can match NYL's compensation.

-NYL tries to make themselves seem selective but in reality they take anyone with decent credit and a clean criminal record DO NOT believe the recruiters when they try to make you feel elite.

I just left New York Life in Houston after exactly one year. I started in the insurance business in late 2006 selling health insurance for the National Association for the Self Employed. My manager was very good and professional and I did learn a lot of practical things from him that are useful no matter where you are. Then I met an agent with a major P & C company and jumped ship. However, after training by an experienced agent one on one, mainly about writing P & C applications, I felt lost and didn't know how to go on. I met over lunch with a New York Life agent whom I had always known but never talked to about this career. She was so confident and had so much enthusiasm, so I talked to her manager and decided to go for a company that provided non-stop training, thinking this would help me succeed.

The truth is, now I realize, no matter what system it is, some are going to succeed and some are going to fail, for want of a better word. And every system needs the right people to make it work. Even every New York Life general office can be totally different simply because the managing partner or senior partner has his own philosophy or way of presenting things to agents.

Another fact is that when a company has a team of trainers, these trainers, who are all partners who do not do recruiting, have to do their best to fill their schedule with all kinds of training to keep their job significant. The concept of training non-stop may be a sensible idea, but everything still boils down to whether it actually helps agents sell. The problem is if the trainers are no more than three-year agents who themselves didn't know how to sustain their selling career and who may not have sold anything for ten, twelve years, how helpful can their training be?

The same thing applies to other recruiting partners. They can talk a good talk but at the end of the day, all they really want are new agents who can figure out everything on their own so they can just sit there and claim how successful they are in recruiting and 'helping' agents succeed.

After a year, my class of a dozen have only two left, and they are not exactly earning enough to raise a family. The managing partner, however , always comments to a new class of recruits that they are the best ever...(to be continued)

Im sorry you all have had such bad experiences. The guy who started this bulliten had his facts all screwed up and i dont care about mispelling on here or grammar. NYLIC is a great company with a great training program. Im 6 months in, and struggling to get started but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Patiance is a virtue I have never had until now. Ive always wanted my own business and now i have it. I left a solid salary at Comerica Bank to do this. If you cant hack it you have noone to blaim but yourself. I dont even know if ill make it, but if i do ill have a sweet life. If i dont it will be because I failed, not the company. The company gives you great products to sell, Incentive to sell it, and lots of TRAINING to do that. Im in the greater detroit office and our MGT staff is awesome, hands down, the end.
J.

Im sorry you all have had such bad experiences. The guy who started this bulliten had his facts all screwed up and i dont care about mispelling on here or grammar. NYLIC is a great company with a great training program. Im 6 months in, and struggling to get started but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Patiance is a virtue I have never had until now. Ive always wanted my own business and now i have it. I left a solid salary at Comerica Bank to do this. If you cant hack it you have noone to blaim but yourself. I dont even know if ill make it, but if i do ill have a sweet life. If i dont it will be because I failed, not the company. The company gives you great products to sell, Incentive to sell it, and lots of TRAINING to do that. Im in the greater detroit office and our MGT staff is awesome, hands down, the end.
J.

Im sorry you all have had such bad experiences. The guy who started this bulliten had his facts all screwed up and i dont care about mispelling on here or grammar. NYLIC is a great company with a great training program. Im 6 months in, and struggling to get started but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Patiance is a virtue I have never had until now. Ive always wanted my own business and now i have it. I left a solid salary at Comerica Bank to do this. If you cant hack it you have noone to blaim but yourself. I dont even know if ill make it, but if i do ill have a sweet life. If i dont it will be because I failed, not the company. The company gives you great products to sell, Incentive to sell it, and lots of TRAINING to do that. Im in the greater detroit office and our MGT staff is awesome, hands down, the end.
J.

Im sorry you all have had such bad experiences. The guy who started this bulliten had his facts all screwed up and i dont care about mispelling on here or grammar. NYLIC is a great company with a great training program. Im 6 months in, and struggling to get started but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Patiance is a virtue I have never had until now. Ive always wanted my own business and now i have it. I left a solid salary at Comerica Bank to do this. If you cant hack it you have noone to blaim but yourself. I dont even know if ill make it, but if i do ill have a sweet life. If i dont it will be because I failed, not the company. The company gives you great products to sell, Incentive to sell it, and lots of TRAINING to do that. Im in the greater detroit office and our MGT staff is awesome, hands down, the end.
J.

I am at the 2nd interview portion of my interview process with NYL & I am thankful of the comments left here. The negative does seem to outweigh the positive.

Something didn't sit right with me during my first interview. I was told the "your building your business," "you'll have 3 years of training," etc. The 3 years of training raised a flag. I have advertising sales experience, I have claims experience & I have my L&H license; I know how to prospect, set appoitments, network, inform of coverages & close a sale. I did not understand why it would take 3 years of "training."

I was actually told that NYL "would be investing about $250k into your training." Why would a company invest that kind of money!? Yes sales are hard, any sales are hard, but it's not rocket science. If they truley do invest that much into new hires I honestly don't see how they stay in business. I've always been turned off by "group interviews" & compaines who continually refer to how long they've been in business.

Sure NYL is a respected, reputable (by some) company & yes it is an iconic building in Manhattan, but it appears that this is a company that you need a lot of venture capital to be affiliated with. After reading the posts on here I've reconsidered. It might be a good fit for me later, but not right now. Thanks again!

I am a former New York Life insurance salesman. After I quit, New York Life sent me a letter stating that the commissions on the policies I had sold had been reversed, and that they were demanding payment, and would refer my account to a "collections agency." They claimed that the policies had "lapsed" or were "not taken". I proved this claim to be completely false simply by talking to the clients I had sold the policies to.

New York Life then gave up their extortion attempt, but did not apologize.

Using easily disprovable false claims to extort commissions from former employees is one of the profit centers of "the company you keep."

On another note, the New York Life recruiter commented above that not receiving a salary or a full expense account is the norm in the financial services industry. Wrong.

I am currently with a legitimate company in the financial services industry, and I receive a full salary in addition to an expense account, and very generous commissions. So I am I the exception?

Don't listen to the hogwash that New York Life recruiters tell you. They prey on the jobless and the young in order to pick up a few policies off their family and friends, and then when the person quits, as they do about 90% of the time, New York Life keeps the trails for themselves.

And in my case, they even tried to get some commission back.

All in all, a very sleazy organization. Keep my story in mind if you are considering working for them.

I am a former New York Life insurance salesman. After I quit, New York Life sent me a letter stating that the commissions on the policies I had sold had been reversed, and that they were demanding payment, and would refer my account to a "collections agency." They claimed that the policies had "lapsed" or were "not taken". I proved this claim to be completely false simply by talking to the clients I had sold the policies to.

New York Life then gave up their extortion attempt, but did not apologize.

Using easily disprovable false claims to extort commissions from former employees is one of the profit centers of "the company you keep."

On another note, the New York Life recruiter commented above that not receiving a salary or a full expense account is the norm in the financial services industry. Wrong.

I am currently with a legitimate company in the financial services industry, and I receive a full salary in addition to an expense account, and very generous commissions. So I am I the exception?

Don't listen to the hogwash that New York Life recruiters tell you. They prey on the jobless and the young in order to pick up a few policies off their family and friends, and then when the person quits, as they do about 90% of the time, New York Life keeps the trails for themselves.

And in my case, they even tried to get some commission back.

All in all, a very sleazy organization. Keep my story in mind if you are considering working for them.

I am a former New York Life insurance salesman. After I quit, New York Life sent me a letter stating that the commissions on the policies I had sold had been reversed, and that they were demanding payment, and would refer my account to a "collections agency." They claimed that the policies had "lapsed" or were "not taken". I proved this claim to be completely false simply by talking to the clients I had sold the policies to.

New York Life then gave up their extortion attempt, but did not apologize.

Using easily disprovable false claims to extort commissions from former employees is one of the profit centers of "the company you keep."

On another note, the New York Life recruiter commented above that not receiving a salary or a full expense account is the norm in the financial services industry. Wrong.

I am currently with a legitimate company in the financial services industry, and I receive a full salary in addition to an expense account, and very generous commissions. So I am I the exception?

Don't listen to the hogwash that New York Life recruiters tell you. They prey on the jobless and the young in order to pick up a few policies off their family and friends, and then when the person quits, as they do about 90% of the time, New York Life keeps the trails for themselves.

And in my case, they even tried to get some commission back.

All in all, a very sleazy organization. Keep my story in mind if you are considering working for them.

I am a former New York Life insurance salesman. After I quit, New York Life sent me a letter stating that the commissions on the policies I had sold had been reversed, and that they were demanding payment, and would refer my account to a "collections agency." They claimed that the policies had "lapsed" or were "not taken". I proved this claim to be completely false simply by talking to the clients I had sold the policies to.

New York Life then gave up their extortion attempt, but did not apologize.

Using easily disprovable false claims to extort commissions from former employees is one of the profit centers of "the company you keep."

On another note, the New York Life recruiter commented above that not receiving a salary or a full expense account is the norm in the financial services industry. Wrong.

I am currently with a legitimate company in the financial services industry, and I receive a full salary in addition to an expense account, and very generous commissions. So I am I the exception?

Don't listen to the hogwash that New York Life recruiters tell you. They prey on the jobless and the young in order to pick up a few policies off their family and friends, and then when the person quits, as they do about 90% of the time, New York Life keeps the trails for themselves.

And in my case, they even tried to get some commission back.

All in all, a very sleazy organization. Keep my story in mind if you are considering working for them.

Mike,

I find it hilarious that someone too lazy to use capital letters would criticize someone else's spelling......pot, meet kettle.

I am also a former NYL Agent. The partner's in my office were only concerned with "getting the check", or "check-o-matic". I was disgusted with them. I thought they were a little sleazy, and I didn't want to be associated with that.

I would tell anyone, insurance and financial services IS the place to be. But it's not for everyone, because it is hard work.

I am now with Mass Mutual. They are just as respected, and financially stable as NYL, and have been around just as long. It is also nice not to see them mentioned on this site!

Your experience at NYL can vary depending on the office you work out of. Some managing partners will allow you to build a business, and support you. But others are more concerned about THEIR careers, and reaching THEIR goals. And in order for them to reach their goals, they have to pressure their agents to produce. Its as simple as that.

Mike,

I find it hilarious that someone too lazy to use capital letters would criticize someone else's spelling......pot, meet kettle.

I am also a former NYL Agent. The partner's in my office were only concerned with "getting the check", or "check-o-matic". I was disgusted with them. I thought they were a little sleazy, and I didn't want to be associated with that.

I would tell anyone, insurance and financial services IS the place to be. But it's not for everyone, because it is hard work.

I am now with Mass Mutual. They are just as respected, and financially stable as NYL, and have been around just as long. It is also nice not to see them mentioned on this site!

Your experience at NYL can vary depending on the office you work out of. Some managing partners will allow you to build a business, and support you. But others are more concerned about THEIR careers, and reaching THEIR goals. And in order for them to reach their goals, they have to pressure their agents to produce. Its as simple as that.

Mike,

I find it hilarious that someone too lazy to use capital letters would criticize someone else's spelling......pot, meet kettle.

I am also a former NYL Agent. The partner's in my office were only concerned with "getting the check", or "check-o-matic". I was disgusted with them. I thought they were a little sleazy, and I didn't want to be associated with that.

I would tell anyone, insurance and financial services IS the place to be. But it's not for everyone, because it is hard work.

I am now with Mass Mutual. They are just as respected, and financially stable as NYL, and have been around just as long. It is also nice not to see them mentioned on this site!

Your experience at NYL can vary depending on the office you work out of. Some managing partners will allow you to build a business, and support you. But others are more concerned about THEIR careers, and reaching THEIR goals. And in order for them to reach their goals, they have to pressure their agents to produce. Its as simple as that.

Robert, it is not the case of only 5% retention. and on top of this, it is not the case that new agents pay all of their operating expenses. now, remember, i am only speaking about NY Life here ... ONLY!

first off, expenses for a new agent or advisor run about $50 per month. they are NOT charged for their cubicle UNTIL they start earning a bonus override which we call expense allowance. even when they start earning this we don't pay it until it pays MORE than the cost of things like their cubicles and phones and so on.

so if their normal expenses are $50 and if we paid the expense allowance (which would start us charging for the cubicle ($35)) then they would be paying $85 per month. if their expense allowance was only scheduled to be $50, we would defer the payment and they would still get a free cubicle. of course if they wanted the $50, we give it to them ... it is their choice.

as for retention, NY Life has DOUBLE the average retention rates of others like firms in our industry. even with that said, our retention (where i am) is about 60% in the first three years. that is actually pretty good if you think about it. remember, lots of people move jobs for reasons that have nothing to do with the employer or the position - like their spouse gets transferred or they move to help a sick relative.

so to be clear, LOTS more than 5% will still be here a year from now. AND, we don't recoup our expenses from them until they are in a position to pay them.

again, this is only for how NY Life operates.

thanks

but c1991 I was standing in a large RE company's office with a well-established RE agent. After we had discussed my business, he swept his right hand as a reference to the many cubicles in the large room and said that "95% of the salespeople using these cubicles won't be here in two years."

I suspect that only 5% of new insurance agents remain as agents after those "first two years". Therefore an insurance company would be financially savvy to have all new agents cover their own overhead expenses from day-1, rather than front the new agents' overhead expenses and then have 95% of those new agents leave. Seems like simple math to me.

OK, the new agent can be paid a lot higher comission when he/she pays their own business overhead, but a 95% dropout rate would mean that this is not the final reality.

paul, i wont comment on all of the "pay for your phone, technology, cubicle stuff" since anyone in the business knows this is generally how it is done. if you don't want to pay any of these expenses, there are companies where you are not charged this - but the pay to you is MUCH less.

however, you are WAY off the mark with your $1200 per week and 6 policies per month.

this is not an easy job. i would hope that in the 6 meetings you had they explained this. in fact, since i am an employee invovled in recruiting --- i KNOW they told you this.

the measure of success for a new agent is 6 policies PER MONTH - not PER WEEK.

on to the rebuttal issue:

first off, NY Life uses an agency distribution system. that means face to face consultations. in fact, NY Life was negatively written up about 15 years ago in the press for sticking to agency distribution instead of going internet and 1-800 call in numbers.

two years ago, the were written up positively by the same publisher for how great they were to have bucked the trend and stayed with agency distribution.

98% of policies placed with NY Life stick. that is why they call themselves "the company you keep". if they sucked, people would drop them at the first better opportunity. since there are none, they stick!

finally, you may think no one wants to buy face to face anymore - that is your opinion. industry surveys and our experience shows that people know there is more to insurance and financial services than clicking a button on a browser. they appreciate the education. they appreciate our time. they really appreciate it when we show up at their home to pay a death claim and do all the paperwork necessary to get the check written in the first place. online insurance brokers WILL not and CAN not do this.

i love that rip off report exists and for the most part it has some useful information. however, i hate to see someone who can't spell get on and rant about not being successful in a professional endeavor. forgive my poor capitalization ;-)

This is what I don't get ....

I have been sucked into getting my Ins. Lic. ($400) ...through another life scam company.

Now that I have a lic...who cares who I sell for, so I tried this.

I contacted my brothers and sisters and all my friends (because I am now an expert in ins.) and tried to sell them Ins through any and all Life Ins companies. You know what they told me (after laughing at me). Okay they'll buy Ins themselves on the internet for the best bottom price, that I didn't need me to sell them anything...they know the dead and dying stories.

Besides, any business that has you sell your family and friends is a waste of time and could cause you to loose all your family and friends.

I can't sell insurance to anyone even if I represent every ins company out there.

I imagined going to my brother telling him I can sell you PRULife, METLife, NYlife, AIL, Global, Guardian, Providence etc.... but nada.

No one is interested in buying from a door to door salesman, that went out with vacume cleaners
trying to sell another sucker.

ESP now with the "DO NOT CALL" list, trust me; no one is interested in buying like this anymore.

I wouldn't open my own door to these types of sales people, so who is kidding who here.

Work for free...only in this country folks!!!

Don't do it... and don't buy it. You'll be dead
before anyone pays you (haha)

I would like to start by saying how sad I am to be reporting this.

I started working at the NYL Silicon Valley office in San Jose, California in December 2004. I was told I was building my own business..I was told I would be working in a supportive environment...I was told I would have a flexible schedule. Unfortunately non of this is true!

I need to say that New York Life IS a reputable company make no mistake! But something is wrong at the management level.

What I found is they place new agents under an extraordinary amount of pressure to produce!

I was told when I was hired the company didn't like to hire people who didn't come with 200 names of friends and family to call, but because of my extensive sales background I got through. By the way, I have over 15 years of successful hardcore outside sales! But it took time to build the foundation to become successful.

From the day I applied, all I wanted to do was build a successful practice and I knew that it would be hard work. To that end, I have spent thousands of dollars joining organizations and networking to build my business. I would even rent booths and tables at different events to promote my business. Because I wasn't "cold-calling" the managers in my office didn't seem too pleased about what I was doing.....it wasn't paying off fast enough for them! They consider networking "socializing". But whenever I would run in to recruiter's from competing companies they would always tell me that they wished their agents would get out into the community!

As a new agent with NYL, THEY OWN YOU for the first three years!! We had to be in the office every Monday morning for a two hour meeting. If you were late, you were locked out of the room! After the meeting, we were excused to go buy lunch and come back to listen to an established agent tell us how they got started in the business. After lunch, we could get out to do what we needed to do, but return to the office by 5:00 to "cold-call" until 8:00pm!! A WASTE OF A WHOLE DAY!! There are usually trainings or meetings that go on Tuesday through Thursday, and then on Fridays we roll-play from 9:00 in the morning until 4:00 in the evening! How on earth are you supposed to get out to get ANYTHING done with this type of schedule? Some of my networking events took place during business hours and I would almost have to beg to attend them!

Our managing partner has a really bad habit of spending our money for us! He would have very expensive trainers come in to the office to waste a whole day of our time to talk to us about everything EXCEPT insurance and financial services and WE would have to pay for it! The last guy who came out ended his presentation by inviting us to continue to work with him for six months of conference calls that was going to cost us $3,000 PER AGENT!! He has also instituted this program at a local mall where we have to stand in a booth to pass out balloons and that costs us $350.00 each per month!

I got the feeling that all they want to do is get everything they can get out of new agents then let us churn and burn! Their goal IS NOT to help you build a business!!! It's not!!

As far as support. Whenever I would ask the recruiter who hired me to help me with a case, she would refer me to an established agent who would require 50% of my commission just for SPEAKING to my client! The last big deal I was working on, she prettymuch FORCED me to work with a new agent she favored and split my commission with her!

In a way, I feel as though I have been ripped off because I put a lot of money and a lot of time into my business. I have established relationships with people and have joined organizations as a New YOrk Life agent and people like and respect me. But back at my office, they did not appreciate it because the money wasn't coming in FAST ENOUGH!

I wish I knew then what I know now.

I wouldn't tell anyone not to work there, because New York Life is an excellent company. Just know that you will not be given an opportunity to build a business unless you have a large warm market to start with. And you will be expected to produce FROM DAY ONE!!!

Thank you,

A disallusioned former New York Life agent

It sounds like you did not understand what you were taught through all those days you spent in their classes! How you missed that, as with any life insurance or financial company, NYL's agents work on 100% commission is rare. It also, unfortunately, sounds like you were not up to the challenges of becoming a Financial Planner: most people are not. If one can muster the pressure of creating a market and learning the incredible amount of knowledge one must attain to seek in financial services, let alone at NYL with its highest standards in the industry, one will find an incredibly rewarding and high paying career.
If an average agent sells 6 policies per week, he will average more like $3,600 per week plus numerous bonusses and retirement incentives which will lead to incredible wealth. Anyone who just sells insurance, however, would never be able to survive at NYL.

To earn, after business expenses (this is one's own business), one needs to earn a mere $1,500 PER MONTH to gross $50K. Since partners, by contract, must spend minimum 4 hours per week with newbies, it's easy to make sales since they do all the selling. At that point, ALL benefits, which are extraordinary, kick in immediately.
To help people entering the field, they charge nothing for six months after an initial one to three month period. And, one does not need to pay them anything: one can work from home or their own office, can use their community computers or their own personal one.

I'm not sure which office you ended up at, but it seems you misunderstood quite a lot, and yes, wasted your time as well as theirs.
Whatever you end up doing, good luck and all the best.