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  • Report: #149162

Complaint Review: Optionetics

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  • Submitted: Sun, July 10, 2005
  • Updated: Wed, April 05, 2006

  • Reported By:West Jordan Utah
Optionetics
Customer Service: 255 Shoreline Drive, Suite 100 Redwood City, California U.S.A.

Optionetics Ripoff Options Trading Educational 2day Seminar Redwood City California

*Consumer Comment: Optionetics - INTERESTING FYI

*Consumer Comment: Half right and wrong

*Author of original report: Optionetics, is a Trading Business?

*Consumer Comment: Would you prefer Wade Cook?

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Below is my letter sent to Citicards disputing the charge of $2995 for the 2-day seminar which I attended in Salt Lake city which I live close by. CitiCards decline to persue the dispute becuase the charge was made out of town, when in fact I made the purchase in Salt Lake City:


May 19, 2005

RE: Optionetics #202 11-APR-05, Orlando FL

To Whom It May Concern:

I am disputing the quality of the goods and services as well as the guarantee which I purchased for $2995, on April 11, 2005. I contacted the merchant on May 16, 2005 to request that I get a refund and the agent offered me their Extended Guarantee that requires me to open and close 36 Optionetics limited risk option trades in six months.

When I purchased the Optionetics 2 Day Seminar on April 11, 2005, I was given documentation, and audio/video material to review. The information was overwhelming to say the least and I expected the seminar to be more helpful, it was not. When I attended the 2 day seminar the instructors cover the material at the same pace and style that it was presented in the video that I received, it was cluttered with information which should take me a year or two to comprehend and execute.

The basis of my dispute is in two parts, the first part is that the 2-day seminar along with the material given to me is not going to help me earn more than the $2995 tuition within 6 months as described in their Extended Guarantee. The second part of my dispute is that the value of the material and information from the 2-day seminar did not meet my expectations, the material is overwhelming and cluttered with new information that it would take me more than 2 years to comprehend and execute.

I am sending you a copy of my receipt and of the extended guarantee for your review. I am also sending you a copy of some Optionetics website discussion board articles that give proof to the basis of my dispute:

Attachment 1: This consists of my receipt, Extended Guarantee and the Seminar Agenda. In the Seminar Agenda, you will see that they did not cover anything worthwhile for me to decide that this seminar is as good as they say it is before 12 noon.

On the Receipt I have highlighted Parts One and Two of their Extended Guarantee. If they had given me the option to ask for a refund after the seminar, I would have done it. Also notice Part Two of the Extended Guarantee, they are asking me to execute 36 trades following their techniques. When I called customer support to help me get started, he just refer me to their website bulletin board, it was worthless to me.

Attachment 2: During the seminar the lecturer cover many topics which needed the use of their Platinum website software as well as other software like Advance Get and Calendar Finder. Again this is proof that the seminar had no value whatsoever. When the lecturer was asked many times to setup a trade by more than 75% of the classroom(who had already taken the 2-day seminar), the lecturer kept using these software which I did not have.

Attachment 3: As further proof that the seminar was worthless, please review these two pages handed to me during the 2-day seminar. One covers Type 1 trade and the other Type 2 trades, again the lecturer cover material I don't have access to. If you looked closely the lecturer is using Advance Get software so he can use the Elliot Wave Analysis and Elliot Oscillator.

Attachment 4: This is a page from Optionetics Course book 3, it is George's Basic Philosophy of Trading. In it he advises to never risk more than 5% of your account on any simple trade. I have a life savings of $28,000, which means I can only use $2,400(which is 5% of $28,000). How can I be eligible of the Part Two of their Extended Guarantee which requires me to make 36 trades so I can get my $2995 paid off? If you read the Extended Guarantee, they promise me to help me make 300 percent return of my tuition $2995which is approximately $8985. The risk involve is very high, if I loose money, my cost would be much more than 300 percent of my tuition.

Attachment 5: These pages are written by beginners who have not taken the 2 day seminar and reveal how risky and time consuming it would be to learn the Optionetics method.

The first bulletin board message was directed to George Fontanills, the founder of the Optionetics, by a young college student, with user name Nick 83. The young man wishes he had access to Optionetics publications(Optionetics Platinum) so he can execute correctly- he made some losses as a result for not having access to Optionetics Platinum. He gets a response by another person named borakin who makes a suggestion to Optionetics Executives that they reduce the price of the Optionetics Internet product, Platinum. Then he continues to refer him to another site's analysis system that will better fit his budget. This is proof that there is no way for me to make 36 trades without any aid as mention by this poor young college student.

The second bulletin board message was made by beaconpub, this beginner reveals he was using the home study course(a $205 course), this is proof that it would have been better for them to offer me their beginner home course instead of the 2-day seminar(a $2995 course) so I can get some experience in the market before I try their more advance methods.

The third bulletin board message was made by sharonna, she reveals that she had taken the 2-day seminar and that she is following all the seminars for more than 6 months. When I attended the 2 day seminar, the lecturer asked who had taken the 2-day seminar and more then 75% raised their hands. This is proof positive that there is no way I am going to make more than 300 percent within 6 months and much less without Optionetics Internet product, Platinum and this other software Advance Get (a $2500 software).

I implore you, that you ask Optionetics founder George Fontanills to help me get my refund. Please tell him that I would like to return the books,and audio/video CDs as well.

Sincerely,

Oscar
West Jordan, Utah
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/10/2005 09:27 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Optionetics/Redwood-City-California-64065/Optionetics-Ripoff-Options-Trading-Educational-2day-Seminar-Redwood-City-California-149162. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

Optionetics - INTERESTING FYI

AUTHOR: J - (U.S.A.)

I found this while researching clone scam. I cut and paste this directly from Wadecook.com Someone please check and verify before it gets erased and no proof of this....READ DOWN BELOW WHERE IT SAYS OPTIONETICS...

You have landed at WadeCook.com

Wade Cook Financial Corporation (WCFC) has filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy and is no longer providing seminars for new or old customers. If you are trying to contact the Trustee of the WCFC Estate, please contact them directly at 206-442-5523 or email them at WCFCTrustee@foster.com

In the wake of the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of WCFC, many people were left unserved after they had paid for enrollment to financial education seminars.

If you are one of those unserved students, Profit Strategies Group, Inc. recognizes your serious interest in money management and trading education and would like to help you continue your efforts. We have a successful history of helping individual investors, just like you, to create and conserve financial wealth. Because you recently paid for something that you did not receive, we would like to make you an offer?


You're Invited


Profit Strategies Group, Inc. is an educational organization that teaches people how to create and conserve financial wealth. Our company is not related to the former WCFC, but as part of a transaction with the estate of Wade Cook Financial Corp., our company has offered to waive the $3,995 tuition for our seminars for anyone who was owed a WCFC seminar when they went out of business. Our seminars are produced in association with Optionetics, a leader in the investment education field.

Click Here for Details of the Offer

Our offer to waive the tuition for a 2-day seminar will not effect an individual's right to pursue any money owed from WCFC and has no bearing on legal suits against Wade Cook Financial.
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#2 Consumer Comment

Half right and wrong

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Oscar from Utah, I agree on several points but also disagree on other you have made. I do agree that if you have some knowledge of trading equity stocks, optionetics's material will be absorbed far easier than if one has no idea of how the market works. But doesn't a college freshman tackle calculus with no prior knowledge of it?

I also agree with you that trading is a business, I stated that in my last post.

However, I disagree that one is to be overwhelmed with NO recourse should they choose to take part. Reattend as many 2 day seminars as you want and talk to the instructors there to clarify anything you do not know. You certainly don't need the coaching if you feel you can handle it on your own. Those are offered to the people who are serious about this and would like to grasp the material faster.

Lastly, I would wonder why as you are overwhelmed already with info from the 2 day, why on earth would you attend the ADVANCED 3 day seminar? Whether it be the computer course or the one in Las Vegas.

I have stated this, and will state it again that this is not a get rich quick scheme.
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#3 Author of original report

Optionetics, is a Trading Business?

AUTHOR: Oscar - (U.S.A.)

To all of you, who are taking Optionetics' courses so as to get rich quickly, please be warned. The courses are for people have one or two years trading in equity stocks or if you are a beginner that is seriously seeking more information in trading stocks with options as a business. I have taken the three day seminars and I can tell you that you will be overwhelmed and will become frustraded as I did. You will get a briefing of the fundamentals and videos and audios but after that you will be on your own until you purchase their coaching service. Unless you are willing to pay for $2995 for a briefing of the fundamentals and then another for personal coaching and then another for expensive tools so that you can write it off as a business expense then you have found a business opportunity.
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#4 Consumer Comment

Would you prefer Wade Cook?

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Let me address the points you have brought up.

1st, the material is top notch. Of course it would seem complex to new students at first, but if you study it and put the time into understanding it you will realize it is 2nd to none. As for the 2 day seminar, what did you expect? It IS 2 days. To cover all the material completely I would say it may take more than a week. This material is highly informative and is the result of multiple years of experience and knowledge. Would you rather have more info or less info?

2nd, you claim the material will not make you back the $2995 in 6 months. Have you ever heard the statement : Past performance is no guarantee for future performance. Some have made it, some have not. There's only 1 person who can tell if you will make that money back and it is YOU.

3rd, ask yourself if you had not been to the intro 2 hour workshop and had no prior knowledge of basic calls/puts, how valuable would the info presented in the 1st morning be?

4th, regarding the software, how many pro traders you know who don't trade with some type of program whether it be charting or analysis? Note that while optionetics says it is highly recommended, they are NOT forcing you to buy them.
You may be able to trade profitably without ever touching them.

5th, regaring Elliot Wave, it is not something you have to live by. Many traders don't use it, although it does work rather nicely with ADV GET.

6th, if you have a life savings of $28k, why are you putting it all to trading? George is right to say never risk more than 5% of your TRADABLE account. Do you have to risk $2400 to make $8985 in 1 trade? Or can you balance it out over several trades in case you are unlucky? I know a trader who started with $2500 and has made $1500 in 5 months, starting in late May. Not the triple money he was looking for, but much better than what you'd get at the banks these days. Please also note that unlike stock trading, options offer more than a 1:1 payoff if correct.

7th, regarding the bulletin board postings. I answered in that very thread by Nick83, and I will ask do you have ANY idea of probalities and statistics? If not, educate yourself on them and what it means in options trading. I will go on record saying it is very hard to be profitable without some type on options analysis software. Lucky for you, there is a way to use excel for this, although I don't know the exact setup. For new options traders, I will also say you will lose money. You won't be right on every trade.

As for beaconpub, well you took the seminar vs the beginner course and you got what you paid for. It's a beginner course for a reason.

As for sharonna, the answer is in every thing I have posted so far. I can deduce from your entire posting so far that you think this is a get rich quick scheme. It is not. Trading is a business.

By the way, I don't work for optionetics, and if you have progressed since your original posting, ignore my post. But by giving out copyrighted information on the net, you may be susceptible to a lawsuit. Just a heads up.
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