• Report: #584077

Complaint Review: PCS Business Forms

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  • Submitted: Mon, March 22, 2010
  • Updated: Fri, March 26, 2010

  • Reported By: Julie — Golden Colorado U.S.A.
PCS Business Forms
PO Box 745 Internet United States of America

PCS Business Forms Charged my card and didn't fulfill my order, then refused to refund, Internet

*Author of original report: Really?

*Consumer Comment: Read for entertainment

*Author of original report: Really?

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Actual Facts

*Consumer Comment: It is easy to see now what they are dealing with

*Consumer Comment: Do you really think we are that dumb?

*Consumer Comment: Never had a problem

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I placed a check order with this company in November 2009. They required a voided check, and I uploaded it on the same day to their ftp site. They charged my card immediately, and they never sent me my order.

I contacted them in early 2010 (I think Feb) to inquire as to the status. I had forgotten about the order, until I realized I was running low on checks. I double checked my bank statement, and realized I had been charged without receiving the order. Worried that the checks were stolen, I contacted them, and they told me that they had never received my voided check. Irritated that my order sat there for months without a word, I faxed them the voided check. As of today, March 22, 2010, I still have no order.

I sent an email that I was canceling my order and required a refund, and they said that there were no cancellations, and they had put it into production. Really!? Put into production only after I cancel the order and demand a refund? First, I think they are lying about producing anything. Second, their website does not state 'no cancellations', but it DOES give a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Too late, I realized they have an 'F' rating with the BBB.

I have now reported them to the Tennessee attorney general, the FTC, and the BBB. I'm posting this ripoff report. Beware! Don't do any business with this 'company.'

I've also posted our email chain, so you can see how frustrating they are to work with. If it seems I was combative at first, that is because I sent the email after I read other ripoff reports and their BBB report. They also do not hesitate to lie in their emails. They claim to have contacted me, which they have never done, until I canceled the order.









From: Julie
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 10:40 AM
To: xxxxx@pcsbusinessforms.com
Subject: RE: Your order no. xxx-xxxxx has been received




 




Please refund my card. This order never shipped, even after I sent in my voided check. Ive done some research on your company and found that you have a BBB report of F. I will not be doing business with you, and if you do not immediately refund my card, I will dispute with the bank, and you will have a chargeback fee, in addition to refunding the money.














From: Julie 
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:19 AM
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@pcsbusinessforms.com
Subject: CANCEL and REFUND Order xxx-xxxxx




Please see below regarding refunding money you took for order [redacted]. I tried to send an email to [redacted], and it bounced.




 




You realize, of course, that when you charge someone for something, you are legally obligated to ship within 30 days. You are breaking the law.













From: John [redacted]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:51 AM
To: Julie
Subject: RE: CANCEL and REFUND Order [redacted]




 




Julie:




 




We sent you several requests for your check copy you stated you would be sending. Since you refuse to comply with these requests we will release the order as you entered it and per our policy. You agree to our terms and conditions prior to checking out that states all sales are final and that cancellations are not accepted. Our verification policy is done as a courtesy to you because symbols, spaces and characters are required to be in specific places for your bank to accept the checks. Since you have refused to send a check copy, we cannot guarantee that the way you entered the order will be acceptable to your bank. If you do a chargeback, we will forward your email where you have threatened us to change our policy for you to your bank.




 




Customer Service




PCS Business Forms




(800) 770-3466




http://www.pcsbusinessforms.com/




http://www.pcsapparel.com/




 













From: Julie
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 2:27 PM
To: 'John [redacted]'
Subject: RE: CANCEL and REFUND Order [redacted]




I find this fascinating. I have received no requests from you. I see there is good reason for your F rating at the BBB. You have not produced the order, and you are in violation of the law. If you do not refund the money, I will report you to the state attorney general and the FTC. Feel free to forward this email to Visa/Mastercard, as well.













From: John [redacted]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:05 PM
To: Julie
Subject: RE: CANCEL and REFUND Order [redacted]




 




So it is your feeling the FTC and state attorney general will side with the fact that you did not send your information as you indicated you would and that we are not allowed to have a cancellation policy? I can tell you we have nothing to fear from either entity as we have already released your order into production. You will get your order how you entered it. Your order remained in a pending status as a simple courtesy to you while we awaited you to send the information you stated you would send but never did.




 




Customer Service




PCS Business Forms




(800) 770-3466




http://www.pcsbusinessforms.com/




http://www.pcsapparel.com/













From: Julie
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:18 PM
To: John [redacted]
Subject: RE: CANCEL and REFUND Order [redacted]




 




I have sent the information in, and I cannot fathom why, only now, when you are threatened, you are taking action. You sat on my money without any follow-up, and when I followed up with you as to why I never received my order, you said you hadnt gotten my voided check. So, I sent it again, and still nothing.




 




I notified you to cancel this before you printed anything. If you print and send something, I will refuse it. I am notifying my bank right now and disputing the charge. If you refund it right away, your bank will waive the chargeback fee.




 




Yes, I do think the attorney general and FTC will side with me, especially when they see your F rating at the BBB. Seriously, the BBB is too lenient with most businesses, and even they give you a failing grade.



From: Julie
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:39 PM
To: John [redacted]
Subject: RE: CANCEL and REFUND Order [redacted]







Furthermore, I have just gone onto your site. You do not have a return or cancellation policy stated. Your FAQs do not address it. Plus, the order status still shows pending. Ive printed all of these things out, in case you choose to challenge this.




 




What your site DOES state is 100% satisfaction guarantee. I am not satisfied.




 




Please also note that my order required a proof, which I never received. Oh, yeah, Ive printed that out, too.





This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 03/22/2010 01:53 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/PCS-Business-Forms/internet/PCS-Business-Forms-Charged-my-card-and-didnt-fulfill-my-order-then-refused-to-refund-I-584077. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
2Author 4Consumer 1Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Author of original report

Really?

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

Now, this is getting amusing. I'm reading comments from Paul, the so-called happy, loyal customer, directed at 'decentcustomer11'. He seems to think that 'decentcustomer11' is me, the person who filed this ripoff report. That is not the case.

As an update, I received a shipment notification. I'll be refusing that package when it arrives. I already ordered checks from another company who, as they stated on their site, shipped same-day.

I also filed a report at IC3.gov. The Hamilton County Sheriff told me I should report the crime there, and it would be forwarded to the appropriate authorities.

Finally, as a point of discussion: 'Paul' claims that a company is entitled to their policies. This is true, but the policies must be conspicuously posted on their website, or they can't possibly be enforced. I have a commerce website (for a different organization than this check order), and my credit card processor required me to have posted policies regarding returns, cancellations, privacy, etc. The only thing that PCS Business Forms has is an FAQ, and it does not state anything about returns, cancellations, or privacy.

For a company that claims to follow its own policies, they really don't. I have evidence that I required a proof. They neglected to send a proof before deciding to send the canceled order into production.

Futhermore, I just did a search of the company with the State of Tennessee. PCS Business Forms was organized in 2004, so how can they possibly have any customers for 10 years? They've been around less than 6 years. Oh, but they AREN'T around! The business never filed the proper paperwork, and it was administratively dissolved by the state in 2005. Now, I don't know how things work in Tennessee, but in Colorado, this would be an indication that you aren't paying your payroll taxes. PCS sure does collect sales taxes -- something I just noticed. I wonder what they do with that money. I think I'll report them to both the Colorado and Tennessee Depts of Revenue, and let them follow up and find out.

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#2 Consumer Comment

Read for entertainment

AUTHOR: Ramjet - (U.S.A.)

Even though I read this site for entertainment purposes, it is really too bad they don't have integrity to validate information before it's posted. 

Because of this, I don't take much I read here very seriously.  This post is the type that most people would just laugh at and assume the OP is having a tantrum.

However, the company felt they had to waste valuable time responding to this nut instead of spending time with real customers.

It's too bad.
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#3 Author of original report

Really?

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

Now, this is getting amusing. I'm reading comments from Paul, the so-called happy, loyal customer, directed at 'decentcustomer11'. He seems to think that 'decentcustomer11' is me, the person who filed this ripoff report. That is not the case.

As an update, I received a shipment notification. I'll be refusing that package when it arrives. I already ordered checks from another company who, as they stated on their site, shipped same-day.

I also filed a report at IC3.gov. The Hamilton County Sheriff told me I should report the crime there, and it would be forwarded to the appropriate authorities.

Finally, as a point of discussion: 'Paul' claims that a company is entitled to their policies. This is true, but the policies must be conspicuously posted on their website, or they can't possibly be enforced. I have a commerce website (for a different organization than this check order), and my credit card processor required me to have posted policies regarding returns, cancellations, privacy, etc. The only thing that PCS Business Forms has is an FAQ, and it does not state anything about returns, cancellations, or privacy.

For a company that claims to follow its own policies, they really don't. I have evidence that I required a proof. They neglected to send a proof before deciding to send the canceled order into production.

Futhermore, I just did a search of the company with the State of Tennessee. PCS Business Forms was organized in 2004, so how can they possibly have any customers for 10 years? They've been around less than 6 years. Oh, but they AREN'T around! The business never filed the proper paperwork, and it was administratively dissolved by the state in 2005. Now, I don't know how things work in Tennessee, but in Colorado, this would be an indication that you aren't paying your payroll taxes. PCS sure does collect sales taxes -- something I just noticed. I wonder what they do with that money. I think I'll report them to both the Colorado and Tennessee Depts of Revenue, and let them follow up and find out.
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#4 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Actual Facts

AUTHOR: PCS - (U.S.A.)

The customer did place their order in November 2009. When entering an order in our system, we have two required fields that specifically require customers to select prior to allowing them to add the product to their shopping cart. First, you have to select the acceptable bank information. Second, you have to select how you plan to send it (fax, email, or secure ftp located in our shopping cart).

This customer selected that she would be uploading a scanned image of the check to our secure ftp system. Our secure FTP system is managed by a very reliable thrid party and there is no record whatsoever of her uploading the files. In fact, from the web logs it shows she bypassed the area quickly.

Let me say this is not uncommon at all. Many times customers will get distracted and forget to upload their sample. This is why we put reminders on the shopping cart page, the checkout confirmation page, and the email confirmation that is sent to the customer. It states: "Please note, your order will be held pending receipt of the information that you have indicated you will send unless you refuse to provide it."

We request that every customer provide this as every bank has its own policies regarding number, space, and symbol placement. Dispite warnings that not providing this information can cause the checks not to be accepted by the bank, a few customers will refuse to provide it. In these cases, we cannot be responsible if the bank refuses the checks as we are printing the order as the customer instructs.

If we do not receive the information from the customer, we will email and/or call them to attempt to get the information they stated would be sent. In the case of this customer, we sent three emails (11/13/09 at 2:36AM EST, 11/15/09 1:47AM, 11/19/09 2:15AM) and called the number she provided twice. We received an answering machine at a personal residence on both attempts and left a message. In these cases, we do place the order in our system and mark as pending verification.

In most cases we will receive a call from the customer inquiring to the order status or returning our calls and emails in relative short order. In this case, all of the communications were seemingly ignored. While we regret delays that this causes on orders, normally the customer is appreciative of keeping the order in a pending status than risk them not receiving an accurate order.

The purpose of our policy in pending orders for verification is to avoid conflict with a customer. In the printing industry, once the ink is applied to security paper then it can't be taken back and placed on the shelf for the next customer. The process is permanent. We prefer that the order be correct from the start than reprinting based on an error, whether the customers or ours. This policy helps to reduce costs and improve general customer satisfaction. It is also the reason we offer a free proof at no charge on new orders. Most of our competitors charge for proofs.

We have absolutely no motivation to hold a customers $45 order. All orders placed that day and everyday where the customer provides the information to us timely ship very quickly. The customer claims they contacted us but I have reviewed the phone history from her area code and there are no calls from her at all. Neither did she email us. In fact, her first communication with us was to cancel and refund her money. She never asked for a tracking number. She knew it had not printed as she had failed to send us the information that she stated she would.

Instead we received threats of chargebacks. She knows we are charged a fee for this regardless of if we win or lose. The principal of not refunding her has to do with the fact we have a contract. Our web system requires that customers check that they agree to our Terms and Conditions during the checkout process before they can submit the order. It complies with all the credit card association rules and has been reviewed by the association. Once again to the web logs, it appears she did not even linger on the page to read them. For those interested in our policy it states:

"We do not give refunds or accept refunds. All sales are final. PCS will reprint any item which in our sole discretion we determine to be our error."

If Julie had not wanted to accept our terms, she could have clicked out and gone elsewhere. However, she accepted our cancellation terms and completed her order. When Julie posted her emails, she did edit what she said and left out quite a bit of what I said. Her profanity filled remarks would not most likely be allowed to be posted here and if they were would make her seem less sympathetic to those who read it.

Would it be easier just to refund her money and avoid her doing a Ripoff Report, BBB, attorney general, chargeback, etc.? Yes. Would it be the right thing? No. She entered into a contract with us, just as I am sure she makes her customers engage into a contract with her. I have never understood why those who have their own policies and procedures would feel it is appropriate for no one else to have the same privilege. Julie's order has shipped. It is printed just as she entered it because she refused to send in her verification copy. She stated she will refuse it. So either Julie no longer needs checks or she got them from someone else. My guess, she got them elsewhere but that does not negate her obligation to us.

For all of you who think that PCS is being damaged by posting inaccurate information and complaints that it is hurting our business in some way, I regret to inform you we have had almost a 400% increase in business this year. It would appear that most consumers can see through these frivilous filings. We now have a close working relationship with our local BBB and in the three complaints posted here from actual customers (out of tens of thousands of satisfied customers), the BBB has closed them in our favor.

I would challenge anyone who legitimately calls into question our integrity to call us and I will send you 250 checks on account terms. We have been in business since 1991 and I would like to think most reasonable people can see through a few misguided individuals attempts to bully their way through honoring their contracts. Just remember, these same people might end up at your place of business next and their next post will be about you. No information on this website is verified in any way and that makes it easy for people who hide behind anonymity to say whatever they want without fear of any repercussions.

 

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#5 Consumer Comment

It is easy to see now what they are dealing with

AUTHOR: Paul G. - (United States of America)

I never said anyone is dumb but clearly you are. Clearly you are the type of person that thinks that only they can have an opinion on anything. For the record, I am not someone from "the company". Why don't you post your phone number and I will gladly call you?

 

1. If you read what I said, I did say I had ordered from the company for about ten years now. Not a different story. I am sorry you are not clever enough to see that.

2. YOU explained your situation. I based my comments on what you provided. I am sure there are facts you conveniently left out or misrepresented simply based on your response to me. I had just placed a reorder and had my confirmation email right in my inbox. Apparently you are like a former secretary of mine who never bothered to read details. You seem like the type with your vindictive nature.

3. I did Google the site and found a ripoff report. Many seemed comical because of the outlandish comments. With one click I saw all of the posts, most seem to originate from the same person. Then I came across yours and decided to comment that, contrary to you, I have never had a problem. This company has been around a long time. Are you suggesting that they do not have any happy customers?

4. Once again, post your phone number. I would be happy to call you. I would post my company name but I would be afraid that you and the other nut job that posted on them would try to post on me.

Clearly you have some sort of mental problem. It sounds to me like you just didn't send your materials in and then when you realized your mistake tried to make this about them. It isn't surprising these days as alot of people want to blame everyone else but themselves.

Recently, at a Best Buy, I stood in line to get a replacement for a warranty I had. There was a lady in front of me who was trying to return something she had bought at the holidays. The return policy was 60 days and she was well past that. She demanded to speak to a supervisor. The supervisor restated the company policy. The woman became beligerent and stated she would call the BBB, local news, and that she would never buy anything from Best Buy again.

You remind me of this Best Buy customer. When you are in the store, they tell you the policies but you don't think they should apply to you. You believe you are above someone elses policies. Then you start threatening to intimidate them to bending their policies just for you. If that doesn't work, you retaliate against them. At no point do you stop and think that they are entitled to their policies. My store has policies. If it is not in orginal package and in decent shape then you do not get a refund. People get mad when you tell them that they can't return but that is their fault.

If you own a company, I am sure you have policies. If you don't have policies then you probably haven't been in business very long. Most of my policies for my store are because the manufacturers of the items I sell require returns to them to include all of the packing, manuals, etc. If I do not return them in this way then I cannot get a credit for the item. I am sure PCS has policies for a reason. I do not know why they have the cancellation policy that you seem to not like but I would bet it is because of something that they have encountered that caused it to be created.

You feel that you are above others policies. Now that they will not do as you demand, you have decided to punish them with a long list of vidictive acts. All I tried to say is that I have used them for a long time and I have been very happy. Once, I ran out of checks and needed to do payroll in two days. I was in total panic. I called them and they overnighted me 250 checks so I could get my payroll done in time. I am very grateful that they saved me and my employees from a bad situatuion THAT WAS MY FAULT.

 

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#6 Consumer Comment

Do you really think we are that dumb?

AUTHOR: decentcustomer11 - (United States of America)

This "Paul B" is obviously someone from the company.

1.  He posted on my thread also, and with a different story.  On my thread he is a long time customer, not recommended by his CPA.   

2.  Even if a happy customer tried to stick up for a company on ripoff report, he or she is not going to know the exact policies of the company, or the details of a certain situation with a customer.

3.  On my thread he says he came across the ripoff report while googling the company to make another order.  I googled "PCS Business Forms."  And a ripoff report came up.  However, it was neither of the threads that this "happy customer"  commented on.

4.  I also find it odd that this "happy customer" just happened to run across the negative posts a few hours after they were written.  More likely is that the owners got an email saying that there had been negative posts, and saw an opportunity to try to clear their despicable reputation.  Too bad they assumed that none of us have the common sense to see through it.


I hope that the FTC and the attorney general will help this unfortunate former customer.  Good luck.


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#7 Consumer Comment

Never had a problem

AUTHOR: Paul G. - (United States of America)

I have used this company for over ten years and never had a problem. Of course, from what you posted it looks like you never sent the information. They tell you when placing an order for checks to send the required info. I just looked at my last confirmation email and it says:

REMINDER FOR CHECK & DEPOSIT TICKET ORDERS: Please fax copy of existing check or starter check to 1-800-797-2497 for MICR verification.

I know if I placed an order for something like checks in November, I would have inquired alot sooner than February to get a status. I do know that when I check out when placing an order I have to agree to their terms and conditions in my shopping cart and it does state that they do not accept cancellations.

I learned about this company from my CPA. Apparently, they send all of their clients to them. It sounds like this is a case of Julie just not following their procedures. Most businesses have policies but some people can't or won't follow them. Alot of people don't read the terms when checking out, I know I have been guilty of it.

I guess if you are in business long enough then someone is going to be unhappy and visit ripoff report.

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