• Report: #860743

Complaint Review: Paypal/Ebay

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  • Submitted: Wed, March 28, 2012
  • Updated: Thu, March 29, 2012

  • Reported By: eman1891 — Cochranville Pennsylvania United States of America
Paypal/Ebay
526 9th Ave Two Harbors Minnesota 55616-1322 Internet United States of America

Paypal/Ebay Buyer: Naoyuki Izuha (scammer) Stole $2000 coin in chargeback scam! Internet

*Consumer Comment: Thanks for filing this report. He is still doing this.

*Consumer Comment: And speaking of Judgement...

*Consumer Comment: The reply may be directed at me..

*Author of original report: Clarifying:

*Author of original report: Clarifying:

*Author of original report: Their Profit:

*Consumer Comment: Sorry...

*Consumer Comment: Your report is a bit incoherent to me..

*Consumer Comment: They do provide a safe market...

*Author of original report: Rebuttal

*Consumer Comment: Why did you not heed the warning??

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I sold a 1 oz gold Canadian Maple Leaf $1800 coin to a man in Minnesota on eBay. I recieved a message from another eBay user stating that the buyer filed a chargeback & scammed him out of his money. I didn't want to cancel the transaction & pay $100 in selling fees, so I shipped the coin to the address the eBay user told me to ship to (in Japan, through his eBay account email) using USPS international express shipping (as he requested) because as I now know it doesn't require a
signature (post office claims the package was delivered & is investigating).
One month later (once the sale is removed from eBay & I can no longer work through eBay or even revise my feedback, I get a notice of a chargeback being filed. Having been warned I removed all funds from my bank account & as a result Paypal continually charged my account causing me to incur overdraft fees & close my account. I sent all the proof from the post office, emails from the buyer (from eBay account), messages from other eBayer victim & awaited my judgement.  Paypal supposedly sided with me, but the buyer's credit card company American Express has the final decision. They for some reason sided with thier card holder (card located in CA), and Paypal won't insure my sale because I shipped to an address other than the buyer's ebay account address.  I've called eBay who said they were powerless, to call Paypal. I called Paypal & they said there is nothing they can do and that they are completely unrelated to ebay despite having "an ebay company" in the signature of every email they send, and advised me to call American Express, who refused to speak to me because I am not "an American Express Merchant."  Now Paypal is requesting the $1845 and ebay is demanding their $106 sales fee which they are now charging late fees on, in addition to suspending both of my accounts.  I'm at the end my patience, I don't know how many people I've called, no one wants to help, not even the Police, because this is a "civil" matter and supposedly not a criminal matter.  I don't think I'll ever see Mr. Izuha in court, so thanks to Paypal and Ebay not warning users such as me of this little loophole burried deep within their monsterous user agreement, it looks like my nonexistent credit score will be ruined.  They also have the nerve in their emails to call this theft "an inconvenience" and say that I should just magically produce $2000 which I don't believe I have any obligation whatsoever to pay.  Thanks ebay/Paypal!   

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 03/28/2012 08:17 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/PaypalEbay/internet/PaypalEbay-Buyer-Naoyuki-Izuha-scammer-Stole-2000-coin-in-chargeback-scam-Internet-860743. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
4Author 7Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

Thanks for filing this report. He is still doing this.

AUTHOR: April - ()

Thanks so much for alerting the public.  I had doubts about this buyer and searched his name.  Your report came up.  This person is still doing the same thing.  He is currently using the ebay ID nzuha402.  He has used 2 different names and 2 different addresses on the ebay account, and emailed me a 3rd name and address. The first name used was Naoyuki K. Izuha with a Wisconsin address.  After I invoiced them, they changed their alias to Rudolph Izuha with an address in Farmingville, NY.  They emailed me with a third name, SETI AWAN, with an address in japan.  He uses the email address cynd7a@dyona.net .  After reading your warning, I decided I would not mail the gold coin to this scammer.  When the address from Japan came up, I knew exactly what to do , thanks to everyone on the thread.  Ebay allowed me to cancel the sell.  Paypal put the payment on hold, after saying it had cleared.  They suspect he used someone else's paypal account.  

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#2 Consumer Comment

And speaking of Judgement...

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

I do appreciate that you posted the buyers user ID...I got this..

eBay My World: naoi13( 3 ) 
Feedback score: 3

You trusted a buyer with a score of 3?...and shipped it off to whatever place the scammer told you to like you were "forced".

This is a PRIME example why some are just not "equipped" with the tools it takes to buy and sell online. Need I really say more?
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#3 Consumer Comment

The reply may be directed at me..

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

Yes I agree the post office may not have warned you..but this does not mean Ebay or PayPal would ever in a million years agree to be held accountable.

What I meant to imply was the post office will tell you has they have told me any time I am suckered into shipping  overseas...which I take as a "warning"..that not only can I not insure it, but I can not get signature confirmation...

So at that point in the decision making process or the decision whether to ship or not lies in my hands... Do I have to decide?...do I trust this buyer enough?  Or do I heed the warnings of eBay, Paypal AND the Post Office? 

No one is "forcing" me..just advising or warning me. The final decision seems to place all the risk upon me. So I either take the risk..or don't. If I decide to take the risk and it fails..I would look like a jerk if I posted a report here trying in a feeble attempt to blame someone else for my lack of judgment and poor decision making skills.

Should eBay and Paypal be responsible for my ignorance if I ship a package off to Never Never Land? Why do you think they have these polices in place?
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#4 Author of original report

Clarifying:

AUTHOR: eman1891 - (United States of America)

I don't expect the Post Office to warn me, their job is to ship packages.  But one of these responses said something along the lines of "It seems even the post office tried to warn you."  I just want to clarify that they didn't.  I'm not going to argue with anyone here, I'm not going to pay for this scam, I have my money, they can ruin my credit I guess, cancel my accounts, etc.   I believe they are the ones who will lose out the most in the future, because I used to always use Ebay and Paypal.  I'll just use Ebid.com instead and be savier next time (read the user agreements, etc) I forgot to mention in another response that the buyer's Ebay username is  naoi13.
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#5 Author of original report

Clarifying:

AUTHOR: eman1891 - (United States of America)

I don't expect the Post Office to warn me, their job is to ship packages.  But one of these responses said something along the lines of "It seems even the post office tried to warn you."  I just want to clarify that they didn't.  I'm not going to argue with anyone here, I'm not going to pay for this scam, I have my money, they can ruin my credit I guess, cancel my accounts, etc.   I believe they are the ones who will lose out the most in the future, because I used to always use Ebay and Paypal.  I'll just use Ebid.com instead and be savier next time (read the user agreements, etc) I forgot to mention in another response that the buyer's Ebay username is  naoi13.
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#6 Author of original report

Their Profit:

AUTHOR: eman1891 - (United States of America)

They still get the seller's fee.  Why do they care who "wins."  They obviously don't care, because they haven't warned anyone of this, they haven't changed their policy preventing these kinds of chargebacks, and they haven't even investigated.  The buyer is still doing this to the best of my knowledge and has excellent feedback (100%).  Because of their new feedback policy, feedback on Ebay is now pretty much meaningless.
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#7 Consumer Comment

Sorry...

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Sorry that you got scammed but you are probably going to be stuck for that amount of money..you did many things wrong and expected things from people/companies that is not their responsibility.

I didn't want to cancel the transaction & pay $100 in selling fees, so I shipped the coin to the address the eBay user told me to ship to

- So you have been WARNED but decided to ship it anyways, risking $1800 to save $100.  I think that falls under "greed".  Not only that but even after you were warned you still decided to go outside of the Paypal confirmed address..to another country.

Well first off, it isn't like this is the "wealthy Nigerian uncle" scam!
- Well your right about that, and since that is the only possible scam in the world you knew your transaction had to be okay..right?

I didn't know whether or not to trust the other Ebay user's emails.

- And what would the purpose of this user contacting you other than a warning?

The post office did not warn me
- Exactly why would the Post Office warn you? 

I was paid very quickly and had the money in hand before I shipped.
- So of course it had to be legitimate.  After all if they were a scammer they would have taken their time to pay you.  That is sort of like asking a scammer.."Hey are you trying to scam me" and when they say "No" you say "Okay..well here is the money".  And then are shocked when they turn out to be a scammer.

I don't really mean to come down on you that hard.  But if you have shipped items this same way in the past with no problems, honestly you got lucky.  Hopefully this will be an (expensive) lesson for you to be a bit more careful.  Where a little "common sense" can go a long way to saving you headaches in the future.  Oh and I am not just talking about Ebay and Paypal but anytime you get involved in any transaction.
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#8 Consumer Comment

Your report is a bit incoherent to me..

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

..so let's take it one step at a time if you would be so kind..

Was the only reason you decided to send the coin after you were warned not to by another eBay user the fear of being charged the sellers fee?...and that as YOU stated in you report and I quote..."the eBay user told me to ship to (in Japan, through his eBay account email) using USPS international express shipping (as he requested) because as I now know it doesn't require a signature"..

It seems to me you were possibly duped by a scam buyer. Would you care to post this buyers user ID? I do have pity that you were scammed if that was the case but if you got ripped off here due to your poor judgement in a transaction it is not always fair to accuse Ebay or PayPal of wrongdoing. Unless you can post evidence that they did indeed scam you with intent to profit. I always thought Ebay and PayPal were in business to conduct online transactions and make them not only safe as possible..but actually be successfully completed. How do they profit from transactions that fail or end up in dispute? No one of the few thousand who fail out of of millions and millions who use eBay daily have ever been able to explain this to me like I am a 2 year old so I can understand.
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#9 Consumer Comment

They do provide a safe market...

AUTHOR: voiceofreason - (United States of America)

If you obey their terms and ship only to the buyer address listed on the buyer account. You chose not to and therefore chose to waive their protection.
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#10 Author of original report

Rebuttal

AUTHOR: eman1891 - (United States of America)

Well first off, it isn't like this is the "wealthy Nigerian uncle" scam! I didn't know whether or not to trust the other Ebay user's emails.  You can no longer view another user's transactions to the best of my knowledge, so he would have to have been viewing all sales.  I have never been scammed on Ebay in the past and I've had people send items to other addresses.  Some people do have multiple homes or wish to send items to other addresses.  The post office did not warn me.  I have sold items internationally before with no problem.  I was paid very quickly and had the money in hand before I shipped.  I don't know what selling an item has to do with greed.  Do you sell your old car when you're done with it to buy a new one because you're greedy?  Come on!  Finally, do you read and memorize every single user agreement?  I don't know about you, but if I did that it would be a full time job.  I thought Ebay and Paypal promoted a safe online marketplace, I now know that they don't!
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#11 Consumer Comment

Why did you not heed the warning??

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

You would have not been charged the sellers fee if you did not send to coin or whatever out and lodged a dispute.

As far as " little loophole burried deep within their monsterous user agreement"..how is it so deep and monstrous?... It seems even the post office tried to warn you but your greed got the better of you and now you want Ebay and paypal to cover it? Are you nuts?

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html

Not ultra confusing. As far as PayPal yes, it is  a deep user agreement but you only need in this case to look up sellers protection..

11. Protection for Sellers.

You must ship the item to the shipping address on the Transaction Details Page.
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