• Report: #704022

Complaint Review: Pinnacle Copy & Print, LLC.

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  • Submitted: Mon, March 07, 2011
  • Updated: Fri, December 21, 2012

  • Reported By: Kelly — 06512 Connecticut United States of America
Pinnacle Copy & Print, LLC.
600 Anton Boulevard #321, Costa Mesa, CA 92626 Internet United States of America

Pinnacle Copy & Print, LLC. Excel Business Systems, Pinnacle Business Systems, Kevin Byram, Jessy Zamorano Unethical Practices, Lying to lenders Internet

*Author of original report: Shipped? I have my doubts.

*UPDATE Employee: Machine Was Shipped But We Were Concerned About Getting Paid

*Consumer Comment: HAPPY WITH THEIR SERVICES

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In December 2010 I contacted Pinnacle Print and Copy about an ad they had posted on craigslist for a Xerox Docucolor printer. Kevin Byram responded promptly and we spoke about my specific needs. I own a small home based business and at the time I contacted them I had been in business for just under two years. I expressed interest in their financing options.

Over the next few months Pinnacle worked on my behalf in order to secure what I thought was to be a favorable lease.  They really gave me the impression they were on my team.   I came to understand that as a small business that had only been in business for about two years my financing options were extremely limited. After exhausting what I thought was our final option I was surprised to hear from Kevin saying that he had found a lender who would work with us.   Over the course a few weeks we ironed out contracts. Sent out deposit and insurance checks to the leasing company.  Once the paperwork was signed I received an e-mail from Kevin telling me that if the leasing company were to call me that I had to tell them that the machine was in my possession and that it was working well, and if I did not there would be no deal. 

The leasing company called, and I followed instructions. I told them the printer was in my possession. The next day the leasing company called to schedule a site inspection, and I knew something was wrong.  I called Kevin's cell phone, and the number on Pinnacle's website. I left a number of messages.

 The next day Kevin got back to me and said that it was highly unusual for the leasing company to want to do a site inspection and they had never encountered that before. I began to question him as to why they had instructed me to lie to the leasing company. He had no answer. The leasing company said that if they couldn't come out the next day to do the inspection that they wouldn't be able to get payment to the vendor for another two weeks. I suggested to Kevin that I pay a deposit on the machine, he ship the machine, the vendor could then inspect the machine and he could get paid. He responded with silence. He told me that I had an excellent credit score, and that I had been in business long enough to show that I was not a "fly by night" operation, so the lender should agree to forgo the site inspection. I responded that those are the exact reasons why he should ship the machine. Again, silence on his part.   I then expressed concern that I felt that I was being scammed or that I was being used as part of the scam. I was assured that Pinnacle had been in business for over ten years (but they filed for their llc within the past two years). When I brought that up Kevin said it had been a sole proprietorship before that.

He then told me he was going to go back to the leasing company and tell them that I didn't want the site inspection. I pointed out to him that they would be a very weak response, and would certainly raise a red flag to any lender. Silence again. I told him I felt that I had been put in a very awkward position and that I felt that I had done something wrong by lying to the lender. Kevin assured me that I had done nothing wrong, and that everything was above board.

Later that evening I received an e-mail from Kevin informing me that the transaction was being unwound by the lender and that I would receive a full refund of the money I had paid. He also made a number of statements that I believe were meant to make the lender look dubious. He commented that he was skeptical of them because they asked for blue ink instead of black. He then offered to sell me the machine at a discount if I paid in cash or on credit card. I declined his offer.

About a week passed. Jessy Zamorano, one of Kevin's associates, contacted me saying that they had just gotten an amazing deal on the exact printer I was looking at and that they could sell it to me for 3k less than the machine I was originally going to lease through them. I declined and asked them when I could expect my refund and I requested the contact information for the lender, whom I had  had no direct communication with up until this point.

I called and e-mailed the lender. I explained how I had never had possession of the machine and that I wanted to make sure that Pinnacle was NOT going to get paid and that I would like to receive a refund.  The following business day I receive a phone call from the president of the leasing company who explained to me that lying to a lender is fraud and is a Federal offence. I was asked to forward any and all communication I had with Pinnacle and did so. I was also told there was a slim chance that I would get a refund of the money that I paid.

After getting off the phone with the lender I then tried to call Kevin's cell phone only to find it out of service. I then tried to call the phone number on the website and it went to an un named voice mail box. I sent and e-mail and Jessy responded.  Through these e-mails I came to learn that Pinnacle had been telling the leasing company for three weeks via phone and in written correspondence that I had possession of the machine and that they needed to be paid.  The lender was shocked to find out that I did not have the machine and told Pinnacle that they would no longer be able to do business with them. 

Later that same afternoon the president of the leasing company called me again to inform me that my e-mails showed that Pinnacle had in fact directed me to lie to them, and that I would receive most of my deposit back.  I then contacted Pinnacle again, and asked them if they would be refunding me the $145 document fee, which I understand is not a lot of money, but it was the principal. Jessy responded with the following:

"We find this all very odd.  This morning you start off using capital letters "FRAUD".  We tell you what our attorney says and that you and we did nothing wrong. You respond that "so and so insists you won't get a refund".  Guess what?  Our attorney was right.  You are getting a refund, now aren't you? The leasing company is underhanded and their trickery and scare tactics are lame as are their unannounced site inspections...  They say they don't want to do business with us and we find that humorous seeming it was them that messed up the deal in the first place and why would we want to do business with a leasing company that does unannounced site inspections, puts fear into a customer and takes from 02/04 until 02/24 to transact a deal when other lenders we use take 3 days for the whole process start to finish and don't do site inspections? We've been in the industry for over 10 years and Kevin's been in it 15 years before that with Xerox Corporate. Once First Pacific refunds we will be happy to send you a hundred bucks. We appologize that we did not know the manner in which First Pacific handles their business.  Had we known we would have never introduced them to you or let them pretend to handle your deal with us."

A few hours later Jessy was informed that Pinnacle had been added to the "no fund"  list and that a copy of their e-mails to me instructing me to lie would be sent to other lenders.  Jessy then emailed me saying

 "Thank you so much for forwarding my email to the leasing company. After we bent over backward to get you a lease when noone wanted to touch you this comes as a real slap in the face. " 

I wrote Jessy back and explained that I was cooperating with the bank because I felt what had been done was un-ethical and possibly illegal. I explained how I had done some internet searching and found out the link between Kevin Byram,  Pinnacle Print and Copy, and Excel Business Systems. I informed Jessy that I has read the reports on this website and that I had located Kevin's criminal record from the 80's where it showed that he had been convicted, and served time for some sort of theft.

I then stated that if this transaction had been above board from the start none of this would have happened.  I also commented  that I had no problem with a site inspection. Why should I?  The bank technically owns the property shouldn't they have the right to inspect their investment?Rather than address what happened or try to explain their actions Jessy responded with the following

"Funny you would criticize Kevin when he has been in the industry as a prominent leader for over 20 years.  What he did as a child (teen) has nothing to do with what he does now at 50.  Also, we don't work out of our house like some people do.  Staff of 17."

I don't see why I should be ashamed of working out of my home. I run my business out of my home so that I can care for my children.  I enjoy what I do and I'm proud of what I have built. I can honestly say that this has been one of the worst experiences with a vendor that I have EVER had. I have learned a lot and I hope that others can learn from my mistakes. 

Everything in this report can be backed up by an e-mail trail. I've done my best to accurately document what happened.  I am taken back by the personal nature of Jessy's comments.  Not once has anyone at Pinnacle taken any responsibility for what happened.  They act as if lying to a lender is standard operating procedure, and that I, the small business owner, should be grateful to them for getting me involved in this mess.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 03/07/2011 09:27 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Pinnacle-Copy-Print-LLC/internet/Pinnacle-Copy-Print-LLC-Excel-Business-Systems-Pinnacle-Business-Systems-Kevin-Byram-704022. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
1Author 2Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Author of original report

Shipped? I have my doubts.

AUTHOR: Mislead! - (United States of America)

I am the original poster.  If you have any doubt about what happened, please re-read my original post.  

Facts:

1. I was not referred by a friend.  I responded to an add on craigslist. The add stated that the company offered financing.  As a small business looking to expand I decided to make contact and see if we could strike a deal.  

2. I was told via email that they ship machines all over the country.

3. As far as I am aware, the issue was not with pre-funding, rather with the fact that the leasing company wanted to inspect the machine prior to issuing payment.  I was told to lie to the leasing company and let them know that I had possession of the machine. When I informed the leasing company that I did not have possession of the machine the deal fell apart and the rest is in my original post.

4. If the machine was shipped, I was never made aware. However, after speaking with the head of the bank involved in this transaction I have serious doubts about this claim.  Also I would assume that if the machine had shipped, and costs were incurred, that I would have been made aware of said fact in the numerous unpleasant emails I received from Pinnacle. 

5. Upon the dissolution of this deal, we were able to secure a machine from x-digital. We have since grown, hired more employees, and moved into a large commercial space and are doing very well.  

I understand that whomever wrote the response is trying to repair their online reputation, and it could be that my experience was not representative of all their transactions. However, everything I said is the truth and can be backed up with an email trail.  
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#2 UPDATE Employee

Machine Was Shipped But We Were Concerned About Getting Paid

AUTHOR: Tom T. - (USA)

I am the main shipping supervisor for Pinnacle Copy & Print, Scottsdale, Arizona.  This client has a right to be upset at the ordeal but not with us or our company.  This was simply an unfortunate occurrance.

The transaction involved an ad first noticed on Craigslist or our website, that I believe a friend of hers referred her to, and she contacted the sales department regarding the advertisement.  Kevin answered her questions and provided her with all information as she requested.  The client/she then made the decision to purchase the machine but wanted to lease it instead of paying one lump sum.  Kevin agreed to this as we lease equipment to our clients in the Western United States and one of our lenders had told us about a new partial prefunding program.  Normally we would never ship a copier anywhere except very local, due to the fact that we cannot afford not to get paid on an expensive piece of equipment such as the one involved here.  When they are local we can simply go and pick them up if they don't fund for any reason.  The leasing broker was contacted regarding the transaction once we had an application from the client.  She was approved and the broker said he would get us prefunded for the equipment within one day.  We contracted with Yellow Freight to ship the machine to her address on the premise of prefunding.  Then the prefunding never arrived and we were told we did not qualify for their prefunding program and this is where the problem began.  We were left with a machine on a truck headed for a destination some 3500 miles away (entire other side of the country) to someone we didn't know who was operating from home. We got concerned about losing the machine and our money invested in it and requested that the client help us out here and we continued to pursue the leasing company for prefunding. 

Finally upon determining we had no recourse if the machine got delivered and it didn't fund and the client didn't pay us we would simply get burnt, we contacted Yellow Freight and cancelled the shipping.  The return shipping cost us an additional $620 on top of the initial $620 to ship it originally.  We are truly appologetic that Kelly didn't get the machine and that this whole ordeal occurred with her as we know it had nothing to do with her or any actions she made.  However, we feel we are justified in having cancelled the deal and having it returned to us instead of being delivered to her. 

My company is once again, very appologetic that things went down the way they did.  However, it is obvious we were both the unsuspecting victims here. 

We would have loved Kelly to have become one of our hundreds of satisfied clients (we value each and every one) and we wish all the best to her and her family.

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#3 Consumer Comment

HAPPY WITH THEIR SERVICES

AUTHOR: Tom thompson - (U.S.A.)

I am not sure what happened with this consumer but I can state that I have been doing business with the fine folks at Pinnacle Copy & Print, LLC. for many years.  They have always gone the extra mile for me and satisfied the needs and preferences of my business.  They don't usually work with leasing companies as I have asked them if they did before and have usually instead paid cash or credit card.  The products I have received and the level of customer service I have received has been excellent.

Madonna Carton
Madonnna's Bookkeeping Service
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