• Report: #79658

Complaint Review: Pinnacle Financial Group

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  • Submitted: Sun, February 08, 2004
  • Updated: Sat, July 08, 2006

  • Reported By:St. Augustine Florida
Pinnacle Financial Group
7825 Washington Ave S Ste 410 Minneaplos, Minnesota U.S.A.

Pinnacle Financial Group - Emerge - Providian ripoff ILLEGAL Settlement Practices It seems that they will do and say anything to try and get money. Minneapolis Minnesota

*Author of original report: How they deal with the FDCPA

*Consumer Comment: To The Pinnacle Employee Who Recently Responded

*Consumer Comment: To The Pinnacle Employee Who Recently Responded

*Consumer Comment: To The Pinnacle Employee Who Recently Responded

*Consumer Comment: To The Pinnacle Employee Who Recently Responded

*Consumer Comment: About "Paying Your Bills"

*UPDATE Employee: Pay your bills

*Consumer Comment: Pinnacle has no fear of the law.

*Author of original report: Breaking the Law yet again

*Author of original report: More Deceptive double talk

*Consumer Comment: Question for John of Minneapolis ..if your beloved employer Providian is so fair, honest and straightforward, why

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: The truth is always more interesting.

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On January 16, 2004 I spoke with a collection rep by the name of Paul Hunter concerning a EMERGE account that CLOSED PROVIDIAN had either sold or transered to EMERGE.
After a long conversation with Paul Hunter, I offered a settlement amount of $1500 dollars to eliminate this account and the large number of phone calls.

Paul Hunter then went to speak with his supervisor Dan Nelson ( Paul stated that was who he spoke with ) about the settlement offer.

When Paul Hunter returned, he stated that his supervisor said that they could accept $1860 to settle this account.
I told Paul Hunter that I would pay that amount on or before 3/31/04 and Paul Hunter agreed to the amount and the date.

I questioned Paul Hunter about any possible issues and Paul Hunter assured me that 30 days before the agreed upon due date that I would receive documents from his office.

On 1/30/04 I received a phone call from Paul Hunter. He stated that if I did not send any money to him that the agreement that we had might not go thru. I told Paul Hunter that he could not change the terms of our agreement in mid stride and that I was not happy that he was calling me, after he assured me that everything was approved by Dan Nelson.

On 2/5/04 I recieved another phone call from a woman who claimed to be from Pinnacle Financial Group. She stated that the account was in her office and wanted to know what I wanted to do about this account. I told her that I had already made a settlement offer and it was accpted by Paul Hunter and Dan Nelson. This person began to read the notes outloud and I had to correct her about the incorrectness and fraudulent entries in the notes ( ie. Communications that never occured, statement never made, ect,ect )

I told this person that as far as I was concerned the deal was made and that any issues she had needed to be directed to Paul Hunter since he and his supervisor made a solid verbal agreement as to the terms and conditions of the settlement.

At that time this woman started yelling into the phone.. do you have it in writing.. do you have it in writing..over and over and over. She hung up on me and I have not heard anything from them and Paul Hunter is now very unavailable.

It seems that Pinnacle will do and say anything to try and get money. They have gone as far as to speak with my grandmother at home about the situation.

David
St. Augustine, Florida
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/08/2004 12:05 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Pinnacle-Financial-Group/Minneaplos-Minnesota-55139/Pinnacle-Financial-Group-Emerge-Providian-ripoff-ILLEGAL-Settlement-Practices-It-seems-79658. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Author of original report

How they deal with the FDCPA

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

I want to thank you for selling this alleged debt off to a junk debt buyer after you failed to properly and fully validate your claim.

Not only did your underhanded act cause me a lot of problems, it forced me to becaome very intimate with the FCRA, FDCPA and my state laws.

I know it cost the JDB way more in the end. I also know had I been as familiar then as I am now, I would have seen you in court as well for mulitple violations of federal law.

My suggestion to anyone having to deal with these crooks who are suffering from serious issues in their lives and making 7 bucks an hour is this.
1. Everything must be done in writing and sent certified mail
2. Stay off the phone with them since we know everything that comes out of 90% of collectors mouths is a lie anyways
3. Record all calls from them ( if your state law permits )
4. Keep good records such as a file with all communications, photo's of your caller ID showing when and from what number they called, copy any voice mails they leave.
5. Track their violations of federal law.

If this is done, you will find that in the end they will have to pay you, that is if they dont unload the account to another company to get out of properly validateing the allged debt
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#2 Consumer Comment

To The Pinnacle Employee Who Recently Responded

AUTHOR: Railyn - (U.S.A.)

For starters, I live in PennsYlvania (yes, I purposely capitalized the "y") and I DID inform your company to cease communications with me. You didn't listen. Was this one of your "mistakes"?

Your company harassed me for a $38 debt. One I tried to honor with the original company on several occasions, and was refused. Your company NEVER sent me even one letter informing me I had a debt, but called me, alebeit during the legal hours, but called ALOT, and hung up when I answered. I have caller ID, and it was always the same toll free number, with the name listed as "Minnesota". When I'd call back, I almost always got an automated voice asking me to enter a phone code.

The one time I called back and got a real person, the excuse was that the auto-dialer was to blame for the barrage of hang-ups (some times as many as 8 a night, and NO, I'm not exaggerating). Was this another "mistake"?

I informed the girl of the whole story with the original creditor, how they refused my attempts at repayment, etc. About how my husband lost his job unjustly, and then was diagnosed with cancer 2 weeks later. She flung some double-talk at me, and it got ugly. You see, I'm not your average deadbeat. I spent 7 years in 3rd party bad debt collections, and I know it all. The laws, the dishonest tricks your company uses, the harassment, the circular talk.

I informed her that you were to stop calling me - the calls continued (violation 1). I informed her that I had not been given a chance to dispute the debt, as I had no letter, and all phone calls were hang-ups (violation 2 and 3). I paid the debt, and demanded it be removed from my credit report because my FDCPA rights were violated. Your company told me only the original creditor could do that, but also told me your company was the one that reported me. The original creditor told me you had to do it, not them. Well, which is it?

A month after I paid it off, the original creditor had still not been notified. I had to demand a letter of payment from your company on several occasions before I finally received one (my bank record of an automatic transfer wasn't good enough as proof for the original creditor - you wouldn't take my check - you insisted on that transfer). Was that another "mistake"?

And let me tell you something about people who owe money. Are there a lot of dishonest dead beats? Absolutely. Are there just as money honest people who hit bad times? You'd better believe it. The collection agency I worked for took the time to teach their collectors the difference between the two, and how to treat people fairly.

So do I deserve to be lumped in with your rude comments? All for the measley $38 I owed, and paid, thank you. Would you like to tell my husband, who is cancer free now (thank heaven) that he's a loser who charged up a lot of money and decided not to pay?

It would serve you well to remember that not everyone you speak to is a loser deadbeat. Some people have very real problems. And another thing: of all the places I've worked, the collectors at the collection agency got more calls from other collection agencies for money they owed to people than anywhere else. It also never failed to have new batches of accounts come in (especially taxes) and there would be a number of employees in there as well. Were some of them deadbeats who milked and manipulated the system to their advangage? Yep. Were the majority of them people who had hit on hard times? You bet.

I'd love to be there when a collection agency attempts to contact you (and I don't care who you are - everyone deals with one sooner or later).
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#3 Consumer Comment

To The Pinnacle Employee Who Recently Responded

AUTHOR: Railyn - (U.S.A.)

For starters, I live in PennsYlvania (yes, I purposely capitalized the "y") and I DID inform your company to cease communications with me. You didn't listen. Was this one of your "mistakes"?

Your company harassed me for a $38 debt. One I tried to honor with the original company on several occasions, and was refused. Your company NEVER sent me even one letter informing me I had a debt, but called me, alebeit during the legal hours, but called ALOT, and hung up when I answered. I have caller ID, and it was always the same toll free number, with the name listed as "Minnesota". When I'd call back, I almost always got an automated voice asking me to enter a phone code.

The one time I called back and got a real person, the excuse was that the auto-dialer was to blame for the barrage of hang-ups (some times as many as 8 a night, and NO, I'm not exaggerating). Was this another "mistake"?

I informed the girl of the whole story with the original creditor, how they refused my attempts at repayment, etc. About how my husband lost his job unjustly, and then was diagnosed with cancer 2 weeks later. She flung some double-talk at me, and it got ugly. You see, I'm not your average deadbeat. I spent 7 years in 3rd party bad debt collections, and I know it all. The laws, the dishonest tricks your company uses, the harassment, the circular talk.

I informed her that you were to stop calling me - the calls continued (violation 1). I informed her that I had not been given a chance to dispute the debt, as I had no letter, and all phone calls were hang-ups (violation 2 and 3). I paid the debt, and demanded it be removed from my credit report because my FDCPA rights were violated. Your company told me only the original creditor could do that, but also told me your company was the one that reported me. The original creditor told me you had to do it, not them. Well, which is it?

A month after I paid it off, the original creditor had still not been notified. I had to demand a letter of payment from your company on several occasions before I finally received one (my bank record of an automatic transfer wasn't good enough as proof for the original creditor - you wouldn't take my check - you insisted on that transfer). Was that another "mistake"?

And let me tell you something about people who owe money. Are there a lot of dishonest dead beats? Absolutely. Are there just as money honest people who hit bad times? You'd better believe it. The collection agency I worked for took the time to teach their collectors the difference between the two, and how to treat people fairly.

So do I deserve to be lumped in with your rude comments? All for the measley $38 I owed, and paid, thank you. Would you like to tell my husband, who is cancer free now (thank heaven) that he's a loser who charged up a lot of money and decided not to pay?

It would serve you well to remember that not everyone you speak to is a loser deadbeat. Some people have very real problems. And another thing: of all the places I've worked, the collectors at the collection agency got more calls from other collection agencies for money they owed to people than anywhere else. It also never failed to have new batches of accounts come in (especially taxes) and there would be a number of employees in there as well. Were some of them deadbeats who milked and manipulated the system to their advangage? Yep. Were the majority of them people who had hit on hard times? You bet.

I'd love to be there when a collection agency attempts to contact you (and I don't care who you are - everyone deals with one sooner or later).
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#4 Consumer Comment

To The Pinnacle Employee Who Recently Responded

AUTHOR: Railyn - (U.S.A.)

For starters, I live in PennsYlvania (yes, I purposely capitalized the "y") and I DID inform your company to cease communications with me. You didn't listen. Was this one of your "mistakes"?

Your company harassed me for a $38 debt. One I tried to honor with the original company on several occasions, and was refused. Your company NEVER sent me even one letter informing me I had a debt, but called me, alebeit during the legal hours, but called ALOT, and hung up when I answered. I have caller ID, and it was always the same toll free number, with the name listed as "Minnesota". When I'd call back, I almost always got an automated voice asking me to enter a phone code.

The one time I called back and got a real person, the excuse was that the auto-dialer was to blame for the barrage of hang-ups (some times as many as 8 a night, and NO, I'm not exaggerating). Was this another "mistake"?

I informed the girl of the whole story with the original creditor, how they refused my attempts at repayment, etc. About how my husband lost his job unjustly, and then was diagnosed with cancer 2 weeks later. She flung some double-talk at me, and it got ugly. You see, I'm not your average deadbeat. I spent 7 years in 3rd party bad debt collections, and I know it all. The laws, the dishonest tricks your company uses, the harassment, the circular talk.

I informed her that you were to stop calling me - the calls continued (violation 1). I informed her that I had not been given a chance to dispute the debt, as I had no letter, and all phone calls were hang-ups (violation 2 and 3). I paid the debt, and demanded it be removed from my credit report because my FDCPA rights were violated. Your company told me only the original creditor could do that, but also told me your company was the one that reported me. The original creditor told me you had to do it, not them. Well, which is it?

A month after I paid it off, the original creditor had still not been notified. I had to demand a letter of payment from your company on several occasions before I finally received one (my bank record of an automatic transfer wasn't good enough as proof for the original creditor - you wouldn't take my check - you insisted on that transfer). Was that another "mistake"?

And let me tell you something about people who owe money. Are there a lot of dishonest dead beats? Absolutely. Are there just as money honest people who hit bad times? You'd better believe it. The collection agency I worked for took the time to teach their collectors the difference between the two, and how to treat people fairly.

So do I deserve to be lumped in with your rude comments? All for the measley $38 I owed, and paid, thank you. Would you like to tell my husband, who is cancer free now (thank heaven) that he's a loser who charged up a lot of money and decided not to pay?

It would serve you well to remember that not everyone you speak to is a loser deadbeat. Some people have very real problems. And another thing: of all the places I've worked, the collectors at the collection agency got more calls from other collection agencies for money they owed to people than anywhere else. It also never failed to have new batches of accounts come in (especially taxes) and there would be a number of employees in there as well. Were some of them deadbeats who milked and manipulated the system to their advangage? Yep. Were the majority of them people who had hit on hard times? You bet.

I'd love to be there when a collection agency attempts to contact you (and I don't care who you are - everyone deals with one sooner or later).
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#5 Consumer Comment

To The Pinnacle Employee Who Recently Responded

AUTHOR: Railyn - (U.S.A.)

For starters, I live in PennsYlvania (yes, I purposely capitalized the "y") and I DID inform your company to cease communications with me. You didn't listen. Was this one of your "mistakes"?

Your company harassed me for a $38 debt. One I tried to honor with the original company on several occasions, and was refused. Your company NEVER sent me even one letter informing me I had a debt, but called me, alebeit during the legal hours, but called ALOT, and hung up when I answered. I have caller ID, and it was always the same toll free number, with the name listed as "Minnesota". When I'd call back, I almost always got an automated voice asking me to enter a phone code.

The one time I called back and got a real person, the excuse was that the auto-dialer was to blame for the barrage of hang-ups (some times as many as 8 a night, and NO, I'm not exaggerating). Was this another "mistake"?

I informed the girl of the whole story with the original creditor, how they refused my attempts at repayment, etc. About how my husband lost his job unjustly, and then was diagnosed with cancer 2 weeks later. She flung some double-talk at me, and it got ugly. You see, I'm not your average deadbeat. I spent 7 years in 3rd party bad debt collections, and I know it all. The laws, the dishonest tricks your company uses, the harassment, the circular talk.

I informed her that you were to stop calling me - the calls continued (violation 1). I informed her that I had not been given a chance to dispute the debt, as I had no letter, and all phone calls were hang-ups (violation 2 and 3). I paid the debt, and demanded it be removed from my credit report because my FDCPA rights were violated. Your company told me only the original creditor could do that, but also told me your company was the one that reported me. The original creditor told me you had to do it, not them. Well, which is it?

A month after I paid it off, the original creditor had still not been notified. I had to demand a letter of payment from your company on several occasions before I finally received one (my bank record of an automatic transfer wasn't good enough as proof for the original creditor - you wouldn't take my check - you insisted on that transfer). Was that another "mistake"?

And let me tell you something about people who owe money. Are there a lot of dishonest dead beats? Absolutely. Are there just as money honest people who hit bad times? You'd better believe it. The collection agency I worked for took the time to teach their collectors the difference between the two, and how to treat people fairly.

So do I deserve to be lumped in with your rude comments? All for the measley $38 I owed, and paid, thank you. Would you like to tell my husband, who is cancer free now (thank heaven) that he's a loser who charged up a lot of money and decided not to pay?

It would serve you well to remember that not everyone you speak to is a loser deadbeat. Some people have very real problems. And another thing: of all the places I've worked, the collectors at the collection agency got more calls from other collection agencies for money they owed to people than anywhere else. It also never failed to have new batches of accounts come in (especially taxes) and there would be a number of employees in there as well. Were some of them deadbeats who milked and manipulated the system to their advangage? Yep. Were the majority of them people who had hit on hard times? You bet.

I'd love to be there when a collection agency attempts to contact you (and I don't care who you are - everyone deals with one sooner or later).
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#6 Consumer Comment

About "Paying Your Bills"

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

It is unfortunate that in these times of uncertain financial markets and loss of jobs, most folks these days are in the same boat as the individual you told to pay the bills. It is a fact that a larger portion of Americans have aquired credit card debts beyond their means. This is a trend that increases, and promises to inflict the poor. I do believe that financial responsibility is imperitive, without a doubt. As a financial institution, you do have the right to collect debts that are owed. The problem lies in the practices to get repayment. I have read a number of complaints along this line, and agree that someone needs to stop the insane crush against the impoverished. Most folks want to pay their bills. They also want a chance to talk to a human being that is respectful regarding the circumstance.

On a side note, I am also aware of a number of folks that have always made on-time payments, but had their account placed with Emerge or Pinnacle, or whatever they choose to name themselves at the time. The tricky part to it is.. Forget it.. I will have to submit an actual report to continue (as per the code of this site)

My suggestion to anyone working with this company is to close your account, even in good standing, and ensure you only correspond in certified mail that requires signature from that point forward.

I would recommend, David, that you learn from this experience. Apparently you were behind in payments to get into this, and must have had the unfortunate circumstance of becoming over-leveraged. You are not alone, so please do not consider this as condescension or "shame on you". This is just a warning to all that get into the trap of easy credit.

Think about it. They give you a pretty good balance at the beginning, and allow you some increases over a shorter period of time than most companies. Most of the advertising in the mail is for check transfers, etc. What a trap! The front-load on the account, as well as the cash advance fees are astronomical. They also tend to charge an annual fee. Be careful not to get involved with these companies. Stay away from cards that have annual fees, as well as those that do not offer a "grace period". All normal-risk companies tend to offer a grace period, such that you can pay within a small period without penalty, and also have the capability to avoid too many finance charges.

To those of you supporting Providian/Emerge/Pinnacle:
Understand that I am not denouncing your right to collect for debts. It's your job to get the money back for the company. Sometimes you need to be stern or even a bit evasive to get to the truth. What needs to be understood is that all of us are human, and it is not too impossible for even you, the concerned employee, to be in the same boat. Take a look at the economy. Neither you or I have the power to control that. One minute you are up.. the next you are down. How do you want to be treated on the way down? I respect you, and am glad we have jobs to support ourselves and/or our families.
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#7 UPDATE Employee

Pay your bills

AUTHOR: Jane - (U.S.A.)

Pinncale Financial does not break the laws intentionally. Mistakes do happen however. If you do not like getting collection calls then you should pay your bills on time just like the rest of us.And just so you all know an Emerg credit card is for people who already have bad credit so look at the source that it is coming from. They obviously feel things in life should be free. Who doesn't want to go to a store buy thousands of dollars worth of merchandise and never pay there credit card. That is what these people do. And there is one more thing, we do not call in the middle of the night we are also at home sleeping. But according to law we do call at 8 am till 9 pm at night so either move to Texas Massachusetts Pennsilvania or Colorado where if you tell us to quit calling we will other wise get it in writing or get use to it.
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#8 Consumer Comment

Pinnacle has no fear of the law.

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I have recieved several harrassing phone calls from this group regaurding a bill that is not mine and I was some 600 miles away from when inccoured. The bill is my ex-wifes bill and they have not been able to colloect it from her so now it seems to be my problem, so here is the whole story Hope you publish this and maybe someone will take action.

Nov 2002. Ex-wife leaves state with child illegally trying to flee state, is told not to go and ordered by court not to go, goes anyway. Child gets sick from eating JUNK food and is cramping and vomitting, geniuses at hospital think its appendisitus(sp) I am contacted and tell them that she is probably constipated as she has had this problem before when in mothers care, after my little girl is in hospital for 24 hrs they give her laxitive and all is well, no surgery for a otherwise fine appendix. Insurance company will not pay bill for this as child was not suppposed to be there to start with. Mother is responsible for the bill. Somehow Pinnacle gets my unlisted number and SS# and is trying to get me to pay the bill. I am harrassed and have told them no further contact if the wish to speak to my attorney I will be glad to give them the number, court here has ruled medical bills not my resposibility, Today called again after a dozen other calls that I have asked them not to CALL me again, tell the girl she is being recorded and is violating my rights she laughs and says I do not have her permission, Tennessee law says only one party needs knowledge of tape. I am sick of being harassed and wish this would stop. I guess they feel as though DEBTORS are broke so they can not afford legal help, I guess they will have to learn the hard way. So a word to all record if you can take good notes have a 3rd party listen in and when the time is right go see a lawyer. I think a class action suite would make them pay attention. There is a firm who would love to hear about these practices I assure you.

GOOD LUCK PINNACLE YOUR GONNA NEED IT.
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#9 Author of original report

Breaking the Law yet again

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

Quick update. Got another phone call from someone at Pinnacle today. I suppose the letter they received on 3/11/04 signed for by J spurbeck did no good.
What is the point of having consumer laws in place if the collectors only follow the ones that they want to follow.
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#10 Author of original report

More Deceptive double talk

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

It always seems the company face men always want to help when the bad press starts to flow.

I sent a registered letter to the home office disputing the debt and requesting specific information and to only communicate with me via US Mail. Since they received, signed for the letter on 3/11/04 I have received several phone calls from the home office,
Pinnacle Financial Group
7825 Washington ave S.
Ste 410
Minneapolis MN 55439-2409,
wanting to talk to me.

I sure the laws are very clear about this type of harrasment and clear violation of the laws.

So far they are in violation of
15 USC 1692c
15 USC 1692d
15 USC 1692e

Let us not leave out the number of times that someone from your office has called, reached my grandmother and told her that there was an emergency and that I had to be contacted right away, they were a friend of mine wanting to talk to me, ect ect. so that your company could gleen additional information from her.

I do have one thing in my favor.. pay attention now... My father was AVP if charge of collections and has been a collector for 30 yrs and knows the rules, games and laws.

Since you want to be so helpful... why dont you leave your full name and phone number and mailing address here, and when I check back on this I will have that information available to me.
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#11 Consumer Comment

Question for John of Minneapolis ..if your beloved employer Providian is so fair, honest and straightforward, why

AUTHOR: Teresa - (U.S.A.)

So, if your beloved employer Providian is so fair, honest and straightforward, why is it that they are the only credit card company that I have ever heard of charging a nearly $90 "account closure fee"? What's next? Charging for bad penmanship on your check???? This company is flagrantly dishonest and they will overstep their bounds and get caught again (yes, again--they've been found guilty of credit card 'malpractice' before--that's why they are hiding behind all these OTHER credit cards that they are 'selling' their accounts to!)
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#12 REBUTTAL Individual responds

The truth is always more interesting.

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

It appears I need to clear up some things that have been posted regarding our office policy.

Our office policy is to offer a settlement on an account if the individual is able to make that payment within 2 weeks. If so, I can guarantee that the account will still be in our office and will not have been recalled by our client.

If payment is not set up within 2 weeks, I can not guarantee that a client will not recall the account and remove it from our agency. Once an account is recalled our agency no longer has any authority to accept payment or handle settlement offers.

If an individual is unable to make the settlement payment in full within 2 weeks, the individual has the option to make a small good faith payment on the account to hold the account in our office. The individual is then able to make arrangements to pay the settlement at a later date.

If a settlement offer is not secured with a good faith payment, but the account is not recalled, the settlement payment may be made when the individual has the necessary funds available.

As for being very unavailable, this individual has yet to attempt to leave me a voice mail message at any time. Call me. Let's get this resolved for you.
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