• Report: #113054

Complaint Review: Prepaid Legal Services

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  • Submitted: Fri, October 15, 2004
  • Updated: Mon, January 23, 2012

  • Reported By:Oxford Alabama
Prepaid Legal Services
Ada, OK Ada, Oklahoma U.S.A.

Prepaid Legal Services F*&^ing ripoff Ada Oklahoma

*Consumer Comment: My 2 cents

*Consumer Suggestion: Poor representation indeed . . . looks like the lawyer was the problem here

*Consumer Suggestion: Poor representation indeed . . . looks like the lawyer was the problem here

*Consumer Suggestion: Poor representation indeed . . . looks like the lawyer was the problem here

*Consumer Suggestion: Poor representation indeed . . . looks like the lawyer was the problem here

*Consumer Suggestion: Poor Presentation

*Consumer Suggestion: Poor Presentation

*Consumer Suggestion: Poor Presentation

*Consumer Comment: Pre paid legal sucks and is about to cost me my life.

*Consumer Comment: Personal Membership Experience

*Consumer Comment: Pre Paid Legal No Rip Off

*Consumer Comment: Pre Paid Legal No Rip Off

*Consumer Comment: Pre Paid Legal No Rip Off

*Consumer Comment: Pre Paid Legal No Rip Off

*Consumer Suggestion: Has any one noticed the number of Members who are defending PPL?

*UPDATE Employee: To the Reference of "Sheep"/Scam/...the S.O.S.

*Consumer Comment: PPL I Agree, truly a scam.

*UPDATE Employee: Wrong Info About Lifelock

*UPDATE Employee: Wrong Info About Lifelock

*UPDATE Employee: Wrong Info About Lifelock

*UPDATE Employee: Wrong Info About Lifelock

*Consumer Comment: Prepaid legal Services-Dont have unrealistic expectations

*Consumer Comment: Prepaid legal Services-Dont have unrealistic expectations

*UPDATE Employee: I Like Your Research.. But

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Aaron, your statement is correct!

*UPDATE Employee: Easy way out

*Consumer Comment: PPL is no different than your job

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Alabama? You're part of a lawsuit

*Consumer Comment: Former Associate

*Consumer Comment: Good advice, Aaron

*Consumer Comment: Good advice, Aaron

*Consumer Comment: Good advice, Aaron

*Consumer Comment: Good advice, Aaron

*UPDATE Employee: Use it Properly

*UPDATE Employee: Another Perspective

*UPDATE Employee: I've received my response from the provider attorney

*Consumer Comment: Glad to be in America. Everyones right to their opinion

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Uh...I said "I've attended many meetings."

*UPDATE Employee: Just one question for you, Stephanie...

*UPDATE Employee: I'm sorry, Stephanie

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: We're sorry but...

*UPDATE Employee: Mickey, I'm sorry but...

*UPDATE Employee: Mickey, I'm sorry but...

*UPDATE Employee: Mickey, I'm sorry but...

*Consumer Comment: Good points

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: PPLSI Is Ridiculous!!!

*UPDATE Employee: When did Americans Quit Being Responsable for Themselves?

*UPDATE Employee: When did Americans Quit Being Responsable for Themselves?

*Consumer Comment: Contractor status has nothing to do with agency, torts have nothing to do with contracts

*Consumer Comment: Contractor status has nothing to do with agency, torts have nothing to do with contracts

*Consumer Comment: Contractor status has nothing to do with agency, torts have nothing to do with contracts

*Consumer Comment: Contractor status has nothing to do with agency, torts have nothing to do with contracts

*Consumer Comment: Tort Reform, Liability, and Agency

*Consumer Comment: Tort Agreements? over-zealous contractors

*Consumer Suggestion: Certification will be the death of us all

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I guess some people can't recover from brainwashing

*Consumer Comment: NYSE listing has no bearing on the issue of "scams"

*UPDATE Employee: Thanks Stephanie what would you have done if you did NOT have Prepaid Legal

*UPDATE Employee: The other side of the PPL coin

*Consumer Comment: My take on PPL

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I joined Prepaid Legal Services almost a year ago. I signed up for the Identity Theft Protection and Casualty Protection which cost $9.95 and $17 a month respectively. Since then I've had 3 major legal matters for which I've needed a lawyer. The so-called provider attorneys are mostly freaking worthless. Paying $27 a month for these lawyers to write letters, review contracts and make idle threats is a waste of money.

The first matter was with the military unit I worked for that tried to charge me $23,000 for alleged missing equipment which was not missing but not properly accounted for. I called the provider law firm assigned to my state and the lawyer that I spoke to knew nothing about military regulations. I got out of that one by doing my own research.

Second, in May this "video e-mail" company happened to get my credit card number (I don't know how in the hell they did) and started billing me $40 a month for 3 months. When I called the company, they had no record of my name, (maiden or married) or my husband's name therefore they could not give me a refund even after I faxed them my credit card statements where I was billed. That company was VMDirect.com by the way. So I called my provider attorney and they wrote a letter to VMDirect ordering them to refund my money. About 2 weeks later they eventually did. Whoopti-freakin'-doo.
Third, and worst of all, 8 months ago I was defrauded $8,500 for this fraudulent real estate mentoring by John Beck (see his 30+ entries at ripoffreport.com.) So I called my provider law firm (they are Demming Parker Hoffman Campbell and Green) and they assigned me this lawyer that sounded like a fraternity boy who had partied all night before. I asked for another attorney and she sent a letter to John Beck threatening litigation if they did not refund my $8,500 by Sep 30th 2004. Oh, and I would get a Title V discount of 20% off her fees. September 30th came and went and John Beck did not refund my money. So I called my attorney and she said she "cound not take this case but she would refer it to the other attorneys." A week later I got a letter from the law firm stating that no attorney would take my case and basically told me it sucked to be me but I was on my own.

Prepaid Legal is all talk and no action. Their membership is a waste of money and a scam and you're better off without them.

Stephanie
Columbus, Georgia
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 10/15/2004 02:25 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Prepaid-Legal-Services/Ada-Oklahoma/Prepaid-Legal-Services-Fing-ripoff-Ada-Oklahoma-113054. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

My 2 cents

AUTHOR: LG Rebate - (United States of America)

Agreed.  Many of this company's problems have come from individual associates not adequately explaining the system or hyping up the product a bit.  It will be interesting to see if this changes under the new ownership and Legal Shield brand name.
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#2 Consumer Suggestion

Poor representation indeed . . . looks like the lawyer was the problem here

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

To the extent that PPL can be held cupable for utilizing a bad firm (or a good firm with a bad lawyer), they should share some of the blame in this.

However, your lawyer owed you far more serious duties than did PPL.

First, your lawyer was required to give you accurate legal advice and, if he wasn't sure of the correct answer, he had a duty to perform some research.

On a month to month lease, you DO have to give 30 days notice unless such notice is specifically waived in your lease agreement (and it NEVER is). And you will always be on the hook for the remainder of the month in which you give the notice, as well as the next full month (i.e. if rent is due July 1, and you give notice on July 15, you have to pay for all of July and all of August).

This is common law. There is the off chance that your state goes a different way, but I doubt it.

Second, the attorney's work product, as well as anything you turned over to the attorney as evidence, is your property so long as you are paid up. So if the firm received their payments from PPL and anything required of you, then they are required, per the Model Rules of Professional Conduct (and probably your state's regulations governing lawyers, and maybe even a statute) to turn over all such materials to you, or copies thereof, upon your request.

Now, as for the firm telling you that you had to sign back up with PPL to get your file, that's pretty fishy, and suggestive of illegal collusion between the firm and PPL. Otherwise, it looks like your complaint would be more appropriately lodged against this attorney and his firm.

Best regards!
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

Poor representation indeed . . . looks like the lawyer was the problem here

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

To the extent that PPL can be held cupable for utilizing a bad firm (or a good firm with a bad lawyer), they should share some of the blame in this.

However, your lawyer owed you far more serious duties than did PPL.

First, your lawyer was required to give you accurate legal advice and, if he wasn't sure of the correct answer, he had a duty to perform some research.

On a month to month lease, you DO have to give 30 days notice unless such notice is specifically waived in your lease agreement (and it NEVER is). And you will always be on the hook for the remainder of the month in which you give the notice, as well as the next full month (i.e. if rent is due July 1, and you give notice on July 15, you have to pay for all of July and all of August).

This is common law. There is the off chance that your state goes a different way, but I doubt it.

Second, the attorney's work product, as well as anything you turned over to the attorney as evidence, is your property so long as you are paid up. So if the firm received their payments from PPL and anything required of you, then they are required, per the Model Rules of Professional Conduct (and probably your state's regulations governing lawyers, and maybe even a statute) to turn over all such materials to you, or copies thereof, upon your request.

Now, as for the firm telling you that you had to sign back up with PPL to get your file, that's pretty fishy, and suggestive of illegal collusion between the firm and PPL. Otherwise, it looks like your complaint would be more appropriately lodged against this attorney and his firm.

Best regards!
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#4 Consumer Suggestion

Poor representation indeed . . . looks like the lawyer was the problem here

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

To the extent that PPL can be held cupable for utilizing a bad firm (or a good firm with a bad lawyer), they should share some of the blame in this.

However, your lawyer owed you far more serious duties than did PPL.

First, your lawyer was required to give you accurate legal advice and, if he wasn't sure of the correct answer, he had a duty to perform some research.

On a month to month lease, you DO have to give 30 days notice unless such notice is specifically waived in your lease agreement (and it NEVER is). And you will always be on the hook for the remainder of the month in which you give the notice, as well as the next full month (i.e. if rent is due July 1, and you give notice on July 15, you have to pay for all of July and all of August).

This is common law. There is the off chance that your state goes a different way, but I doubt it.

Second, the attorney's work product, as well as anything you turned over to the attorney as evidence, is your property so long as you are paid up. So if the firm received their payments from PPL and anything required of you, then they are required, per the Model Rules of Professional Conduct (and probably your state's regulations governing lawyers, and maybe even a statute) to turn over all such materials to you, or copies thereof, upon your request.

Now, as for the firm telling you that you had to sign back up with PPL to get your file, that's pretty fishy, and suggestive of illegal collusion between the firm and PPL. Otherwise, it looks like your complaint would be more appropriately lodged against this attorney and his firm.

Best regards!
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#5 Consumer Suggestion

Poor representation indeed . . . looks like the lawyer was the problem here

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

To the extent that PPL can be held cupable for utilizing a bad firm (or a good firm with a bad lawyer), they should share some of the blame in this.

However, your lawyer owed you far more serious duties than did PPL.

First, your lawyer was required to give you accurate legal advice and, if he wasn't sure of the correct answer, he had a duty to perform some research.

On a month to month lease, you DO have to give 30 days notice unless such notice is specifically waived in your lease agreement (and it NEVER is). And you will always be on the hook for the remainder of the month in which you give the notice, as well as the next full month (i.e. if rent is due July 1, and you give notice on July 15, you have to pay for all of July and all of August).

This is common law. There is the off chance that your state goes a different way, but I doubt it.

Second, the attorney's work product, as well as anything you turned over to the attorney as evidence, is your property so long as you are paid up. So if the firm received their payments from PPL and anything required of you, then they are required, per the Model Rules of Professional Conduct (and probably your state's regulations governing lawyers, and maybe even a statute) to turn over all such materials to you, or copies thereof, upon your request.

Now, as for the firm telling you that you had to sign back up with PPL to get your file, that's pretty fishy, and suggestive of illegal collusion between the firm and PPL. Otherwise, it looks like your complaint would be more appropriately lodged against this attorney and his firm.

Best regards!
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#6 Consumer Suggestion

Poor Presentation

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Stephanie,

If you would have been properly explained the benefits of the plan, and understood it the way it should be presentened. True prepaid will not cover everything. But if the person that signed you up wouyld have done a thorough explanation you would know what to expect. Also prepaid has a great complaint system. If you call corporate they will take care of the issue and make sure they lawyer provides the service they are paid to do. Granted no one person or product is perfect and people do make mistakes. These lawyers are human and have bad days as well. They make hundreds of thousands a month and if you have a complaint and call corporate. Corporate will do whats right. The lawyers like the income. So when corporate calls they obey. Just think, if you are not happy and everyone else is not happy, with no customers, they don't make the money that they do. I do apologize on behalf of prepaid that you were not properly explained the benefits.
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#7 Consumer Suggestion

Poor Presentation

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Stephanie,

If you would have been properly explained the benefits of the plan, and understood it the way it should be presentened. True prepaid will not cover everything. But if the person that signed you up wouyld have done a thorough explanation you would know what to expect. Also prepaid has a great complaint system. If you call corporate they will take care of the issue and make sure they lawyer provides the service they are paid to do. Granted no one person or product is perfect and people do make mistakes. These lawyers are human and have bad days as well. They make hundreds of thousands a month and if you have a complaint and call corporate. Corporate will do whats right. The lawyers like the income. So when corporate calls they obey. Just think, if you are not happy and everyone else is not happy, with no customers, they don't make the money that they do. I do apologize on behalf of prepaid that you were not properly explained the benefits.
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#8 Consumer Suggestion

Poor Presentation

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Stephanie,

If you would have been properly explained the benefits of the plan, and understood it the way it should be presentened. True prepaid will not cover everything. But if the person that signed you up wouyld have done a thorough explanation you would know what to expect. Also prepaid has a great complaint system. If you call corporate they will take care of the issue and make sure they lawyer provides the service they are paid to do. Granted no one person or product is perfect and people do make mistakes. These lawyers are human and have bad days as well. They make hundreds of thousands a month and if you have a complaint and call corporate. Corporate will do whats right. The lawyers like the income. So when corporate calls they obey. Just think, if you are not happy and everyone else is not happy, with no customers, they don't make the money that they do. I do apologize on behalf of prepaid that you were not properly explained the benefits.
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#9 Consumer Comment

Pre paid legal sucks and is about to cost me my life.

AUTHOR: Nee - (U.S.A.)

I was with prepaid legal in 2002 my husband and I first became members and then we decided to become salespeople for the company to earn a little extra cash. It was good at first but in may of 2003 my husband was discharged from the Navy and we moved back home to Mississippi. When we left the apartment complex Emerald Point wanted a month and a half of rent because we didn't give a 30 day notice however we were on a month by month lease so they weren't entitled to a 30 day notice we did give them a 13 day notice when we found out our official move date we told them.

After a few months Emerald point started demanding money from us ranging up to $1200. We contacted the provider firm and their lawyer reviewed our original lease and agreed that they weren't guaranteed a 30 day notice and the notice we gave was more than sufficient. He wrote them a letter demanding that he would sue if they tried to collect anymore. The apartment complex quit trying to collect the money. In the meantime our family went through a financial dry spell and could no longer afford to pay the membership or the associate fees every month they canceled our membership when we didn't pay them however with it being a direct deposit they continued to charge us an associates fee I wound up having to close my bank account and going about $300 in the hole before they took the hint that I couldn't afford their associates fee either.

Now in October of 2007 having not heard from emerald point apartments and in the middle of another move I shredded the documents from the apartment complex to lower the amount of junk moved. Only to find out in November that Emerald point apartments was refiling their claim now amounting $1500. I called the prepaid 800 number to see what I could do because they were told not to pursue or they would be sued. All the nice lady could do for me was to give me the providers phone number and let me speak with them.

I called to see if i could get a copy of the letter that had been written and the lease agreement that they had a copy of only to be stonewalled with the lawyer who handled your case is no longer with the firm and the only way we can help you is if you renew your membership with prepaid legal. I CAN'T AFFORD IT!!! Now in April of 2008 my husband has found a decent paying job and after his first paycheck goes into the bank what I try to get groceries but the atm card is denied. I call my bank and they tell me that there is a $1560.60 garnishment on his wages this is because I couldn't afford to pay for the membership to fight the new lawsuit.

So with no food in the house and no way to pay my bills my power will be shut off at the end of the week my internet and phone on the 12th along with my husband losing his job because he can't afford the gas to get to work. Thanks a lot Prepaid Legal when I die of stravation I will be thinking of you and how your company screwed me.
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#10 Consumer Comment

Personal Membership Experience

AUTHOR: Rick - (U.S.A.)

I have represented myself in court three times, and once with a lawyer (before PPL); the first time the cop didn't show and I lost anyway; the second the cop showed, the judge went easy on a local kid (reckless driving? aw, mom'll watch you, case dismissed) and slammed me (improper left turn) with full fine and wasting the court's time; the third time I had pictures and evidence and looked up the relevant laws, and lost anyway; with the lawyer, the case was dismissed due to lack of a witness, no $85 ticket, but the accident report wasn't changed so my insurance went up anyway *and* I owed the lawyer $400 (and he was a friend!!).

I am a real estate investor. My mortgage broker, when I applied for my first investment loan, said "You need a prepaid legal plan." She was not and is not affiliated with the company. Not knowing any better, I signed up immediately.


And I didn't use the services for 8 months. I already had a Trust, so I didn't need a Will. Although I normally get 2 speeding tickets a year, I haven't had one in 4 years. I have had 2 accidents in that time period, but didn't think to use my PPL membership.


About 10 months ago, I was attempting to buy a pair of houses from an estate, pretty much when the mortgage market changed. Suddenly, I couldn't get funding from anywhere, not even "hard money". I couldn't even *give* the deal to anyone else, let alone sell it. I had to default on my 2 purchase contracts, kissing $1000 in earnest money good-bye.

To make matters worse, the lawyers for the estate threatened me with a lawsuit, claiming damages for taking their houses of the market for 3 months. For whatever reason, I remembered I had a PPL plan, so I told them "I'm sorry to hear that, but that's what earnest money is recompense for. If you sue me, I won't pay a dime for the first 75 hours thanks to my PPL plan."

The lawsuit never materialized, *and* I received a check in the mail from the estate for my $1000 of earnest money! Just knowing their target had a defense plan negated the lawsuit.


Now I use the plan all the time to review every real estate document I use before I sign them. Just in the last three weeks, the local Law Firm made me aware that one of my "nationwide" 1-page forms was illegal in Michigan and would get me a criminal charge and a $10,000 fine if I used it. Last week, the law firm reviewed a purchase agreement for me, found nothing wrong, but also made me aware of a local city ordnance that required an additional inspection I didn't know about -- another criminal charge (misdemeanor this time). This morning, a referral to an Indiana provider about a mortgage company I was about to use made me aware that the broker had no license to practice in Indiana or Michigan.


I asked a question about income taxes -- I have a relative living in one of my rentals, rent-free. I needed to know about my options for claiming losses and repairs. I could ask my accountant, but she's $155 an hour and too busy right now to answer hypothetical questions. *And* I happen to know that my relative is claiming that he *does* pay rent on his own taxes. So my question isn't just financial, it's also about legal exposure. (I don't have the answer yet.)


I asked questions about the legal options for prosecuting a lawsuit against a couple shysters who defruaded a relative. I have asked questions about bankruptcy (something that MANDATES you consult with a lawyer before even filing... why not do it for free?) and foreclosure. I have asked questions about getting out of contracts (leases, cell phone, and health club). I've even asked about a Child Services call against my daycare center (turned out to be a false alarm, but whew!).


Sometimes, the "advice" is less than helpful. I asked for ideas on how to structure some paperwork to make sure I got paid for a multi-million dollar deal. I asked her to be creative, and help me obey the laws but not get sidestepped, and her response was "I am sworn to uphold the laws, not help you get around them." What resulted was half an hour of me making a suggestion, and the lawyer saying "No"... until at the end, I got a "maybe". Good enough for me, but not exactly "great" response.

When I first started real estate, I asked for advice on a lease I was using as a landlord. The feedback was "There is so much wrong with this, in Michigan, I suggest you go to www.michigan.gov and get the standard lease they provide." Thanks, i didn't need a membership for that one.


Another time, I asked for a letter to be written to American Express (they cut $15,000 off the credit limit of a card I use for, among other things, groceries and rehabbing). The letter was written, and nothing ever happened.


Another time I asked for help negotiating with a bank about a property I was losing to foreclosure. The local lawyer's response was "the bank will wonder why you the money to hire a lawyer, but not to pay them."


Once, I asked for the review of a document that was 15 pages, and was told that I would need to pay for full services, because the membership only includes 10-page documents.

Over time, I have also learned that my question is always about Me (not any one else), always actually happening (not hypothetical), and always something I am Personally doing (not doing through an LLC).

I have never used LegalShield.

I have never *used* Identity Theft Shield, although I do get daily reports as I continue to impact my credit with my real estate activity -- in one case, the alert notified me when a mortgage company sold off 12 of my loans, and then marked me as not paying them the next month! I would like to also mention that in addition to this $9.95 cost I *also* pay $14.95 for constant access to my scores and reports from TransUnion -- and they have *never* proactively notified me of anything, not even the 12 invalid "30day late" items mentioned previously.




Summing up, I have paid over $700 for my membership so far. I have asked a total of about 20 different questions (some in other states), had 15 documents reviewed, dodged 2 lawsuits, and found out about a damaging credit situation that was not Identity Theft but was still good to know about immediately. The real estate lawyer on my "Power Team" costs $350/hour, or a flat $150 to review closing documents.

PPL has saved me from a $10,000 fine, 2 business-related criminal charges, and physically put $1000 of "spent" money back in my pocket. They have also sometimes provided me no help, or told me something I could have found out myself for free.

Look at Health insurnace or auto insurance or life insurance though -- I was in accident last July, and Blue Cross / Blue Shield (my health ins) hasn't finished fighting with GMAC (my auto insurance) about who should pay the medical bills. I don't see BC/BS or GMAC on here as a Rip-off, even though now over $3k in bills are hitting *my* credit because they are unpaid. When my father died, New York Life (his life insurance) only paid half the death benefit, claiming he unnecessarily risked himself by being involved in karate (he was a black belt) -- even though he died of liver cancer. Is NY Life on here as a ripoff?

People pay all the time for things they could find out for free, simply for the convenience of having the information available when needed from a simple phone call, or "boot camp", or online publication, or in a magazine. And people pay all the time for services they don't use (whose fault is that?), insurance they never take advantage of, or "clubs" that provide limited rare benefit. And I include myself in the above categories -- I spent $30 on a marketing book that was a compilation of things I already had seen; I spend $15/m on a MMORPG I haven't had time to play in 6 months; I'm a member of a vacation club ($140/yr) and a discount buying club ($170/yr) that haven't done me any good except the first year I bought them; I own timeshare (THERE'S A RIPOFF!!!!) that costs me $900/yr, but I almost never use.

Is a Prepaid Legal Plan the end-all be-all solution to your legal woes? Nope. Could you get some of the information and services elsewhere for free? Yep. (although see how many times the yellow-pages attorneys continue to answer questions for free after the 5th call...) Are they sometimes not useful? Yep. Are they sometimes totally worth every penny? Absolutely. Avoiding that one fine (never mind the criminal charge) has effectively paid for my membership for 25 years.


Are some people put off by MLMs? Yes. Do some people treat a Network Marketing job like a license to be rabid? Yes. I'll admit it, I was in Amway in college. I was pushy, slammed my friends and family when they didn't get in, stopped associating with "negative influences", the whole nine yards. I was also only 19. I'm older now, I understand more about the MARKETING aspect of owning and running a business. And every COMPANY I've ever worked for has been "multi-level" ("higher" people, like my managers, get paid more than me, and earn bonuses when I do a good job), and a "pyramid" (the guy at the top makes more money than I ever will in the company, and there's a whole lot of us at the bottom).

Everything anyone does in life naturally is networking. You originally went to your doctor/dentist/hairstylist/etc. because someone recommended him. You go to restaurants because someone recommended it. You checked out that hole-in-the-wall boutique/cafe/theater because someone told you about it. Someone started the ball rolling with advertising of some form.

MLM / Network marketing is no more a scam than being an insurance broker, real estate broker, mortgage broker -- a team of salespeople working for you, that you make money off their efforts (after you've trained them). "Scams" result when the thing being sold (insurance, juice, makeup, legal access, travel packages, whatever) is worth what you paid for it, or the commission earned for selling it aren't what was promised.

If you don't use your PPL membership, you wasted your money.
If you use it to do something you have the time and contacts to do for free, you wasted your money.
If you use it once to do something that pays off for you, or saves you from 1 thing, or just reduces the cost of something you brought on yourself, it was well worth it.


(sorry, didn't mean to write a book)
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#11 Consumer Comment

Pre Paid Legal No Rip Off

AUTHOR: Leon - (U.S.A.)

I have had pre paid legal since Jan 08. the very first month I called them about an issue with a intent purchase of 211.95 that I was not happy with. I had contacted the company I purchased from several times over a 3 month period with no results. I called my PPL legal firm and they called me right back within 30 minutes I explained the issue and sent them supporting documents. They sent off a letter and called the company within 3 business days I received my credit for the 211.95 and an apology from the company. Since then I have used them 3 more times with issues each time I have been completely satisfied with my membership. And in the last few months have received back credits from bad internet companies totaling 750.00. I am a Very Happy Pre Paid Legal customer. I guess some people just like to cry and moon.
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#12 Consumer Comment

Pre Paid Legal No Rip Off

AUTHOR: Leon - (U.S.A.)

I have had pre paid legal since Jan 08. the very first month I called them about an issue with a intent purchase of 211.95 that I was not happy with. I had contacted the company I purchased from several times over a 3 month period with no results. I called my PPL legal firm and they called me right back within 30 minutes I explained the issue and sent them supporting documents. They sent off a letter and called the company within 3 business days I received my credit for the 211.95 and an apology from the company. Since then I have used them 3 more times with issues each time I have been completely satisfied with my membership. And in the last few months have received back credits from bad internet companies totaling 750.00. I am a Very Happy Pre Paid Legal customer. I guess some people just like to cry and moon.
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#13 Consumer Comment

Pre Paid Legal No Rip Off

AUTHOR: Leon - (U.S.A.)

I have had pre paid legal since Jan 08. the very first month I called them about an issue with a intent purchase of 211.95 that I was not happy with. I had contacted the company I purchased from several times over a 3 month period with no results. I called my PPL legal firm and they called me right back within 30 minutes I explained the issue and sent them supporting documents. They sent off a letter and called the company within 3 business days I received my credit for the 211.95 and an apology from the company. Since then I have used them 3 more times with issues each time I have been completely satisfied with my membership. And in the last few months have received back credits from bad internet companies totaling 750.00. I am a Very Happy Pre Paid Legal customer. I guess some people just like to cry and moon.
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#14 Consumer Comment

Pre Paid Legal No Rip Off

AUTHOR: Leon - (U.S.A.)

I have had pre paid legal since Jan 08. the very first month I called them about an issue with a intent purchase of 211.95 that I was not happy with. I had contacted the company I purchased from several times over a 3 month period with no results. I called my PPL legal firm and they called me right back within 30 minutes I explained the issue and sent them supporting documents. They sent off a letter and called the company within 3 business days I received my credit for the 211.95 and an apology from the company. Since then I have used them 3 more times with issues each time I have been completely satisfied with my membership. And in the last few months have received back credits from bad internet companies totaling 750.00. I am a Very Happy Pre Paid Legal customer. I guess some people just like to cry and moon.
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#15 Consumer Suggestion

Has any one noticed the number of Members who are defending PPL?

AUTHOR: Raven - (U.S.A.)

I've noticed that the people who defend PPL are members, paid associates, salesmen- if you will for PPL. They certainly are great (read "trained to") defend the good name of PPL. Behold MML at its best...

The members of PPL remind me of a bad sci-fi movie, they are like a modern day "pod people". I have nothing to say that carefully reading the thoughtfully provided script by Shellee can show you. If you read it very carefully, you'll see that you're not getting very much for your $30 a month. 60 hours sounds like a lot, but it doesn't say if that's per incident or per year. Either way, you're only allowed 2.5 hours of face time with your lawyer on the matter- the other 57.5 is for trial time. 60 is now 2.5 if you take the care to read the "fine print" at the end of the sections.

Also from what I've been able to gather, your attorney will write you one letter per incident. That's great if that one letter works.

Here's a hint, try typing a professional, legal looking letter yourself and see where it gets you. Do a little research on the internet and find the corporate office contact information and ask to speak to the president (by name) that's usually sufficient to get your demands satisfied. All you need is a little chutzpah. Read things carefully and slowly if you have to. Ask around your courthouse for someone to help you read over contracts if you can't, chances are someone will be able to refer you to a pro bono service in your area if you really are strapped for cash.

The really big traffic help isn't covered by legal shield- that's DUI. For most traffic offenses, you can easily represent yourself in a traffic court. I've done it and I've won. As for the stories that showing a cop your card will get you off, don't count on it. Hell, anyone with a printer can make a card. If I were a cop, I'd take offense to having a PPL card shoved at me. I would suggest you hand over your license and registration as asked and not try to be a wise ass. Its almost as bad as slipping a $50 to them... or maybe you can try using Mason hand signals? If you were violating the law, get ready to pay up. Legal Shield isn't a guarantee that you're going to get off Scott free.

I also noted there were a lot of exclusions in the "fine print" at the end of each section. You almost need PPD to read their own contract. I'd suggest that you try the yellow pages.


Recently a friend of mine contacted me about attending a meeting at her house with one of the slick sales reps from PPL. She brought me in to ask the tough questions because she is a kind hearted person who is very giving and trusting. I am her polar opposite.

The paltry services that PPL offer can be easily handled by yourself with a little research on the internet and are usually free. While you're surfing (or having your kid surf for you) look up Pre Paid Legal, Inc. and read what others have said. You can feel free to read what is written by slick shysters- er, representatives of PPL but I can guarantee you that it will definitely be the biased opinion of a person who isn't afraid to step on the little guy to boost themselves up the pyramid a little higher. Ask yourself if this is the kind of person you want to believe, or are the opinions and experiences of Joe and Jane Schmo's like you and me the people you'd chose to trust. Sure, we may not be as articulate as the well trained huckster, but we will certainly be more honest.

No matter what plan you purchase, remember that the real goal of this company is to make you a sales rep, and to make money off of you. I was extremely put off with the scare tactics used by this company in its sales presentation. ("ooo, ID theft is rampant and is going to GET you and your little dog too! 9-11! Terrorists! Illegal immigrants! Big Brother! Ooo!) I was also even more put off by the targeting of poor to middle class, senior citizens and the under educated. They look for the easily suckered and fleece them for all they're worth. The sales pitch was very high pressure. How do I know a slick huckster, high pressure sales pitch? Because I was once a telemarketer and pre paid legal service was only one of the many items I sold. It was a nauseating existence and I only hope I can make up for it by warning people not to fall for it.

My parents taught me that you get what you pay for. There are crummy lawyers out there as well as there are the good and the fair and you will find the later if you LOOK. I've only needed a lawyer twice in my life and I was easily able to pay for their services even though I don't make much a year.

If you want to just kick back and let someone handle your business, that's your decision, but if you just take a little fraction of perseverance you'll find that there are very, very few things a normal person will need a prepaid service for. Its true that they will only handle your consultation one time for each item. Note that many lawyers right out of the phone book do the very same thing for free. If you go to court over a traffic ticket chances are in your favor that it will be dropped if the officer doesn't show. The one time I did it, my fine was reduced and the points were not assessed - I didn't even have to go to the "school" to get them off my license. They were just dropped, saving me a fortune.

Getting a durable power of attorney for my grandmother was also a free service by a local law firm in my area. I've been consulting with a lawyer who has helped me extensively with a problem landlord and hasn't charged me a dime once. Isn't there a saying about God helps those who help themselves? I have no more time than anyone else. I work full time and help take care of a quadriplegic. You think you don't have time? Remember that as you're watching TV...

If you don't want to put forth any effort in your personal affairs, or if you just can't sleep at night because some huckster has convinced you that evil ID stealing monsters are waiting under your bed, than by all means pay the $30 a month if it helps you sleep better. Remember that a lot of prepaid lawyers are just starting out and trying to drum up business so when you have to come up with a $2000 retainer for a wet-behind-the-ears, straight-out-of-law-school lawyer- don't be surprised.

You think any experienced law firm would settle for handling the piddling amount that comes in from a PPL service when they can get the money right from you? I've read reports were people who've used PPL have found that after the little bit of "free" service dried up, the lawyer's fees were padded so that they didn't lose anything from the 25% discount. They were still inflated after the discount, higher than normal lawyer's fees.

Do your research and do it well. If you're on ripoffreport.com, you're already on your way to a good start. Remember that the turnover rate in MLM is very high and the only people who make money are the ones on the top. Are you ready to step up even if it means stepping on others?
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#16 UPDATE Employee

To the Reference of "Sheep"/Scam/...the S.O.S.

AUTHOR: Bobilero - (U.S.A.)

I had wide eye's open before, and since I have been a member/Associate of Pre-Paid. The people I have dealt with, are honest. Most of the griping I see are people who have been misled, or want something for nothing, period. I don't do what they call "911 sales" anyway, shape, or, form. Big mistake, why? people in that situation are never happy with any service, period. My first sale for a membership was a "911 sale" so to speak, going through Family Law troubles.

I outlined the whole plan honestly as I could, every Title, etc. What kind of Lawyer calls at 10:30 P.M.? The kind that is part of a law firm that's associated with Pre-Paid, and you have the Legal Shield Plan. I guess he shouldn't have told the Provider Law Firm that there were kids involved at that stage, or it was an emergency. But that was not enough for him, he wanted more. The Provider Law Firm provided an attorney at not just a 25% discount for non-plan coverage, he was offered a 50% discount on services for his attorney.

Was he happy? No, he was not. He had no notion of retainers etc., and really what an attorney costs to retain. The bottom line is that you can't win for lying. I challenge anyone, for the real plan coverage to tell me it's a bad deal, especially Identity Theft Shield. Good Luck!
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#17 Consumer Comment

PPL I Agree, truly a scam.

AUTHOR: Wisdomm - (U.S.A.)

Yes I agree, prepaid legal is a SHAMMMMMMMM. Its the biggest lie and joke since ENRON. I am speaking from a members point of view, ahem, excuse me, I meant to say X-Member. The, only real reason I bought the service is because my brother is an associate and I wanted to help him out, and because he was so passionate and believing in the service. So I have been a paying member for over 4 years now, and each and every time I have called about an issue I have been given the run around, given faulty information or just plain lackluster service. And each time I complained to my brother and he would tell me, "oh just call the customer complaint number", blah blah blah, bull%^&, you get my meaning.

But either way my time and my money had been wasted, something I can't get back no matter how much I complained to customer care. The last straw was when I had a court date set for a traffic violation. Now I live over 3 states away from where the court date was, and it would be unreasonable to try and go to court, therefore I contacted my provider firm about a referal to another office so that I could get an attorney to represent me without me being present. However, to my misfortune, I waited until a week before trial to call them, totally my fault, but heres the kicker, my provider firm gave me a bunch of useless bs to do which I told them would not work before I finally got a referal, only to not have an attorney call me back.

I waited for two days calling the firm back and forth and was assured that I would get a call back, well, need less to say I'm still waiting. I had to end up getting online to find my own attorney, and paying 500.00 dollars for him to represent me in court, and oh yea, when I called him for the first time he called me back in 30 mins. I guess my money was more important to him, but I have been paying for so called services for 4 years, so I have nothing good to say about that company, but that it talks a good game, thanks pre-paid sham services for , nothing!
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#18 UPDATE Employee

Wrong Info About Lifelock

AUTHOR: Tacomama_83 - (U.S.A.)

In the report I read that Lifelock charges a $99 start up fee which is simply not correct. There is also no membership fee. The only fee is $10 a month or you can pay it annual which is only $110. There is also many promotional codes that can get you a even less discount. I just wanted to clear that up.
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#19 UPDATE Employee

Wrong Info About Lifelock

AUTHOR: Tacomama_83 - (U.S.A.)

In the report I read that Lifelock charges a $99 start up fee which is simply not correct. There is also no membership fee. The only fee is $10 a month or you can pay it annual which is only $110. There is also many promotional codes that can get you a even less discount. I just wanted to clear that up.
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#20 UPDATE Employee

Wrong Info About Lifelock

AUTHOR: Tacomama_83 - (U.S.A.)

In the report I read that Lifelock charges a $99 start up fee which is simply not correct. There is also no membership fee. The only fee is $10 a month or you can pay it annual which is only $110. There is also many promotional codes that can get you a even less discount. I just wanted to clear that up.
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#21 UPDATE Employee

Wrong Info About Lifelock

AUTHOR: Tacomama_83 - (U.S.A.)

In the report I read that Lifelock charges a $99 start up fee which is simply not correct. There is also no membership fee. The only fee is $10 a month or you can pay it annual which is only $110. There is also many promotional codes that can get you a even less discount. I just wanted to clear that up.
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#22 Consumer Comment

Prepaid legal Services-Dont have unrealistic expectations

AUTHOR: Shellee - (U.S.A.)

First of all i must mention that in this case if you read the contract it does state that PPL does not assist with Federal issues including Military or Indian Reservation Law. The reason for this is bc there are so few attorney who actually are lic in these areas let alone trying to narrow them down by subject and then making sure they are an attorney through ppl referral service, obviously that is a hard search criteria. As for a letter being written on behalf of an individual, do u think that if I took $8,500 from anyone or multiple people I would be scared to refund the money with just a Deman letter written? Probably not. The most issues people have with PPL is that they have unrealistic expectations and you only hear there side of the story. Here is a complete listing of the benefits provided to a member of the $17 Standard Legal Plan with Legal Sheild:



Title 1
Preventive Legal Services

Phone Consultations on Unlimited Matters
As a member, you can consult with your Provider Law Firm toll free by phone on any personal or business-related matter. Just call your Provider's toll-free number during regular business hours when you have a legal problem or question.


Phone Calls and Letters...
A phone call or letter from your Provider Lawyer can get you the results you want fast. Your Provider Lawyer will recommend a letter or phone call when that is the best step for you. One call or letter per personal subject related matter is free with your membership. Plus, you'll receive two business letters each year at no additional cost! Additional assistance for same subject at 25% discount.

Contract and Document Review...
You can have an unlimited number of personal legal documents, up to ten pages each, reviewed by your Provider Lawyer. Included each year is one business document review at no additional cost! Your Provider Lawyer will analyze the documents and suggest changes for your benefit before you sign.

Wills for You and Your Family...
A Will for you at no additional charge, not just a "simple" Will, but one that meets most Americans' needs - with free yearly reviews and updates. Wills for covered family members are just $20 each; changes and updates $20. Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount.


* Additional Information & Exclusions
Letters and Phone Calls: A letter or phone call per subject matter is available if advisable in your Provider Law Firm's sole discretion.

Contract and Document Review: Nevada residents limited to 5 personal legal documents reviewed per year.

Will Preparation: Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount. A standard Will with yearly updates provided for the primary member at no additional cost. Covered family members can also have their Will prepared for $20 each, with yearly updates for only $20.


Title 2
Motor Vehicle Legal Expense Services

Minor Legal Expenses
Your Provider Lawyer will represent you or your covered family members against moving traffic violations at no additional cost to you. Now you can have help with traffic tickets and not have to worry about the cost of representation.

Major Legal Expenses
Your Provider Lawyer will defend you or your covered family members when you are charged with Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide, or Vehicular Homicide at no added cost to you.

And add up to 2.5 hours for help with..
Damage recovery service
Driver's license assistance
Personal injury legal expenses

* Additional Information & Exclusions :
Motor Vehicle Legal Services: These services are available 15 days after enrollment. Representation under this benefit is provided when the member has a valid driver's license and is driving a properly licensed motor vehicle. Any fines and court costs are the member's expense. Pre-existing conditions, charges of DUI/DWI related matters, drug-related matters, hit-and-run related charges, leaving the scene of an accident, and unmeritorious cases are excluded. Commercial vehicles with more than two axles are not covered. These services are limited to two and one-half (2-1/2) hours of lawyer time per claim and do not include the filing of a lawsuit and exclude personal injury and property claims that exceed $2,000. However, you may receive a 25% discount and consult with your Provider Law Firm under the toll-free consultation benefit for any exclusions under this benefit.

Title 3
Trial Defense Services

Lawsuits cause tremendous emotional and financial stress. Your Pre-Paid Legal membership offers assistance when you need it most.

Up to 60 hours of lawyer time...

During your first membership year, you have up to 60 hours of your Provider Lawyer's time at no additional cost when you or your spouse is named defendant or respondent in a covered civil or criminal action filed in a court of law. The criminal action must be one which arises out of the direct performance of the covered person's employment activities. Your Provider Firm can advise you of the documents required to determine coverage under this benefit.

Of these 60 hours, up to 2.5 hours may be used for all legal services rendered in defense of the covered suit prior to actual trial. Up to 57.5 of the remaining hours are available for actual trial time including covered criminal preliminary hearings.


Your hours of service increase...
When you renew your membership, your hours of lawyer time increase as follows:

2nd year renewal: Up to 120 hours of assistance at no additional charge including up to 3 hours of pre-trial time.

3rd year renewal: Up to 180 hours of assistance at no additional charge including up to 3.5 hours of pre-trial time.

4th year renewal: Up to 240 hours of assistance at no additional charge including up to 4 hours of pre-trial time.

5th year renewal: Up to 300 hours of assistance at no additional charge including up to 4.5 hours of pre-trial time.


* Additional Information & Exclusions
Trial Defense Services: This coverage applies only to the named member and spouse. Divorce, separation, annulment, child custody or other divorce-related matters, bankruptcy, charges of DUI/DWI, drug-related matters (whether prescribed or not), hit and run, leaving the scene of an accident and civil or criminal charges occurring as a result of operating a commercial vehicles with more than two axles are not covered under this benefit, but are covered by the preferred member discount. Additional exclusions under this benefit: Being named in a civil lawsuit or having criminal charged filed against you because you are listed as an owner, management or associate of the business and you had no direct involvement with the act or matter that gave rise to the lawsuit or criminal charge. Those charges are covered with your preferred member discount. If the lawsuit was filed because of something that occurred prior to your membership or because of conditions that were reasonably anticipated or foreseeable prior to your enrollment, then the lawsuit is excluded from your Trial Defense benefit. This exclusion applies even if the lawsuit is filed after you become a member. These lawsuits are covered with your preferred member discount. Class actions, interventions or amicus curiae filings in which the covered member is a party (or potential party) are excluded. Also, this coverage does not include garnishment, attachment or any other appeal. Your Provider Law Firm has the right to determine whether or not your claim or defense to a matter will prevail in court or is frivolous or without merit. This includes deciding whether or not to appeal any judgment or decision. Your Provider Law Firm also has the right to present your claim or defense according to their independent professional judgment. Pre-Paid Legal will not influence or attempt to modify how your Provider Law Firm provides their professional services.

Title 4
IRS Audit Legal Services

Your Pre-Paid Legal membership will help you defray the costs of an IRS audit and give you the legal support you need.

Up to 50 hours of lawyer time...

You have up to 50 hours of your Provider Lawyer's time available at no additional cost when you or a covered family member receives written notice of an IRS audit or are requested to appear at IRS offices regarding your tax return. Your 50 hours are available as follows:
Up to one hour for consultation, advice, and assistance when you receive written notice from the IRS of audit or appearance.
If there is no settlement within 30 days, you have up to 2.5 hours for audit representation, negotiations, phone conversations, and settlement conferences prior to litigation.
If there is no settlement without litigation, up to 46.5 of the remaining hours are available for actual trial appearance if the IRS sues you, or you pay the disputed tax and sue the IRS.

* Additional Information & Exclusions
IRS Audit Legal Services: Does not cover business tax returns, garnishment, attachment or any other appeal, class actions, interventions or amicus curiae filings, charges of tax fraud or income tax evasions, Trust returns, payroll and information returns, partnerships, corporation returns or portions thereof that are included in the member's tax returns, pre-existing conditions - where member has been notified by the IRS prior to enrollment, and services rendered by an enrolled agent. Coverage includes the return due on April 15th of the first membership year.

Title 4
Other Legal Services

Your Provider Lawyer will render assistance at a 25% reduction to his or her standard hourly rate* for you or your spouse should you need legal services not covered by this plan. A retainer may be required for services being rendered under this benefit. Five days are required for preparation for court representation.

* Additional Information & Exclusions
Preferred Member Discount: Depending on your legal needs, a retainer may be required by your Provider Law Firm prior to services being rendered under this discount. Your Provider Law Firm is responsible for determining the amount of the retainer and any other anticipated costs. Other costs you may incur include fines, court costs, penalties, expert witness fees, bonds, bail bonds, and any out-of-pocket expenses. These costs are your responsibility and are not included as part of membership benefits. Your Provider Law Firm cannot provide any legal services until payment of the retainer and other costs have been made. If you need representation in court, you must notify your Provider Law Firm at least five business days in advance so they may prepare for your case.


*Hourly rates for Referral Lawyers and court appearances may
vary.

Legal Shield Rider

Do you know your legal rights?

What would you do if you were detained by a law enforcement officer? Do you know your rights?
What would you do if you're injured in an accident?
What if the authorities attempted to remove your child from your home or custody?
What if an officer arrived at your door with a warrant?
Finally, there is one answer to all of those questions!

As a Legal Shield member, present your Legal Shield membership card to the officer. By showing the card, you make it clear you want to call your lawyer immediately. If you are injured in an accident or confronted with the state taking your child, or served with a warrant, you'll be able to contact a lawyer immediately.

To use your Legal Shield, simply call the 24-hour toll-free Legal Shield number. A Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. representative will then connect you to your Provider Law Firm. It's that simple.

1. If you're arrested or detained...
Most law enforcement officers are conscientious and will protect your rights rather than abuse them. If you are stopped or detained by a law enforcement or police officer or questioned by authorities regarding a minor child in your custody, we suggest taking the following precautions:
Cooperate with the officer and ask for permission to get your Legal Shield Card.
If arrested or detained, call the 24-hour, toll-free number on your Legal Shield card.

2. If you're seriously injured...
Of course, the first step is to make sure you and others involved are OK. Your next two calls should be to your insurance company and your lawyer. If you're incapable of making the call because of your injuries, be sure your family knows to call your provider law firm. And, remember; never agree to any offers or settlements from an insurance company without receiving legal counsel first!

3. If the state tries to take your child(ren)...
If you are confronted by authorities and they remove your child(ren) from your custody, call the Legal Shield hotline immediately! You can call 24 hours a day, and 7 days a week.

4. If you're served with a warrant...
If you are approached by authorities and they present a warrant, call the Legal Shield hotline immediately! You can call 24 hours a day, and 7 days a week.

Remember...
The Legal Shield membership will not apply in situations involving:
Any matter in which the member is alleged to be under the influence of or impaired by alcohol, intoxicants, controlled substances, chemicals or medicines.
Alleged domestic violence or alleged stalking.
Assistance in making, posting, or obtaining bond, bail, or other security required for release.

**********************
All this info can be found at www.pepaidlegal.com under legal plans, plan benefits, then your state.
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#23 Consumer Comment

Prepaid legal Services-Dont have unrealistic expectations

AUTHOR: Shellee - (U.S.A.)

First of all i must mention that in this case if you read the contract it does state that PPL does not assist with Federal issues including Military or Indian Reservation Law. The reason for this is bc there are so few attorney who actually are lic in these areas let alone trying to narrow them down by subject and then making sure they are an attorney through ppl referral service, obviously that is a hard search criteria. As for a letter being written on behalf of an individual, do u think that if I took $8,500 from anyone or multiple people I would be scared to refund the money with just a Deman letter written? Probably not. The most issues people have with PPL is that they have unrealistic expectations and you only hear there side of the story. Here is a complete listing of the benefits provided to a member of the $17 Standard Legal Plan with Legal Sheild:



Title 1
Preventive Legal Services

Phone Consultations on Unlimited Matters
As a member, you can consult with your Provider Law Firm toll free by phone on any personal or business-related matter. Just call your Provider's toll-free number during regular business hours when you have a legal problem or question.


Phone Calls and Letters...
A phone call or letter from your Provider Lawyer can get you the results you want fast. Your Provider Lawyer will recommend a letter or phone call when that is the best step for you. One call or letter per personal subject related matter is free with your membership. Plus, you'll receive two business letters each year at no additional cost! Additional assistance for same subject at 25% discount.

Contract and Document Review...
You can have an unlimited number of personal legal documents, up to ten pages each, reviewed by your Provider Lawyer. Included each year is one business document review at no additional cost! Your Provider Lawyer will analyze the documents and suggest changes for your benefit before you sign.

Wills for You and Your Family...
A Will for you at no additional charge, not just a "simple" Will, but one that meets most Americans' needs - with free yearly reviews and updates. Wills for covered family members are just $20 each; changes and updates $20. Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount.


* Additional Information & Exclusions
Letters and Phone Calls: A letter or phone call per subject matter is available if advisable in your Provider Law Firm's sole discretion.

Contract and Document Review: Nevada residents limited to 5 personal legal documents reviewed per year.

Will Preparation: Trust preparation is available at a 25% discount. A standard Will with yearly updates provided for the primary member at no additional cost. Covered family members can also have their Will prepared for $20 each, with yearly updates for only $20.


Title 2
Motor Vehicle Legal Expense Services

Minor Legal Expenses
Your Provider Lawyer will represent you or your covered family members against moving traffic violations at no additional cost to you. Now you can have help with traffic tickets and not have to worry about the cost of representation.

Major Legal Expenses
Your Provider Lawyer will defend you or your covered family members when you are charged with Manslaughter, Involuntary Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide, or Vehicular Homicide at no added cost to you.

And add up to 2.5 hours for help with..
Damage recovery service
Driver's license assistance
Personal injury legal expenses

* Additional Information & Exclusions :
Motor Vehicle Legal Services: These services are available 15 days after enrollment. Representation under this benefit is provided when the member has a valid driver's license and is driving a properly licensed motor vehicle. Any fines and court costs are the member's expense. Pre-existing conditions, charges of DUI/DWI related matters, drug-related matters, hit-and-run related charges, leaving the scene of an accident, and unmeritorious cases are excluded. Commercial vehicles with more than two axles are not covered. These services are limited to two and one-half (2-1/2) hours of lawyer time per claim and do not include the filing of a lawsuit and exclude personal injury and property claims that exceed $2,000. However, you may receive a 25% discount and consult with your Provider Law Firm under the toll-free consultation benefit for any exclusions under this benefit.

Title 3
Trial Defense Services

Lawsuits cause tremendous emotional and financial stress. Your Pre-Paid Legal membership offers assistance when you need it most.

Up to 60 hours of lawyer time...

During your first membership year, you have up to 60 hours of your Provider Lawyer's time at no additional cost when you or your spouse is named defendant or respondent in a covered civil or criminal action filed in a court of law. The criminal action must be one which arises out of the direct performance of the covered person's employment activities. Your Provider Firm can advise you of the documents required to determine coverage under this benefit.

Of these 60 hours, up to 2.5 hours may be used for all legal services rendered in defense of the covered suit prior to actual trial. Up to 57.5 of the remaining hours are available for actual trial time including covered criminal preliminary hearings.


Your hours of service increase...
When you renew your membership, your hours of lawyer time increase as follows:

2nd year renewal: Up to 120 hours of assistance at no additional charge including up to 3 hours of pre-trial time.

3rd year renewal: Up to 180 hours of assistance at no additional charge including up to 3.5 hours of pre-trial time.

4th year renewal: Up to 240 hours of assistance at no additional charge including up to 4 hours of pre-trial time.

5th year renewal: Up to 300 hours of assistance at no additional charge including up to 4.5 hours of pre-trial time.


* Additional Information & Exclusions
Trial Defense Services: This coverage applies only to the named member and spouse. Divorce, separation, annulment, child custody or other divorce-related matters, bankruptcy, charges of DUI/DWI, drug-related matters (whether prescribed or not), hit and run, leaving the scene of an accident and civil or criminal charges occurring as a result of operating a commercial vehicles with more than two axles are not covered under this benefit, but are covered by the preferred member discount. Additional exclusions under this benefit: Being named in a civil lawsuit or having criminal charged filed against you because you are listed as an owner, management or associate of the business and you had no direct involvement with the act or matter that gave rise to the lawsuit or criminal charge. Those charges are covered with your preferred member discount. If the lawsuit was filed because of something that occurred prior to your membership or because of conditions that were reasonably anticipated or foreseeable prior to your enrollment, then the lawsuit is excluded from your Trial Defense benefit. This exclusion applies even if the lawsuit is filed after you become a member. These lawsuits are covered with your preferred member discount. Class actions, interventions or amicus curiae filings in which the covered member is a party (or potential party) are excluded. Also, this coverage does not include garnishment, attachment or any other appeal. Your Provider Law Firm has the right to determine whether or not your claim or defense to a matter will prevail in court or is frivolous or without merit. This includes deciding whether or not to appeal any judgment or decision. Your Provider Law Firm also has the right to present your claim or defense according to their independent professional judgment. Pre-Paid Legal will not influence or attempt to modify how your Provider Law Firm provides their professional services.

Title 4
IRS Audit Legal Services

Your Pre-Paid Legal membership will help you defray the costs of an IRS audit and give you the legal support you need.

Up to 50 hours of lawyer time...

You have up to 50 hours of your Provider Lawyer's time available at no additional cost when you or a covered family member receives written notice of an IRS audit or are requested to appear at IRS offices regarding your tax return. Your 50 hours are available as follows:
Up to one hour for consultation, advice, and assistance when you receive written notice from the IRS of audit or appearance.
If there is no settlement within 30 days, you have up to 2.5 hours for audit representation, negotiations, phone conversations, and settlement conferences prior to litigation.
If there is no settlement without litigation, up to 46.5 of the remaining hours are available for actual trial appearance if the IRS sues you, or you pay the disputed tax and sue the IRS.

* Additional Information & Exclusions
IRS Audit Legal Services: Does not cover business tax returns, garnishment, attachment or any other appeal, class actions, interventions or amicus curiae filings, charges of tax fraud or income tax evasions, Trust returns, payroll and information returns, partnerships, corporation returns or portions thereof that are included in the member's tax returns, pre-existing conditions - where member has been notified by the IRS prior to enrollment, and services rendered by an enrolled agent. Coverage includes the return due on April 15th of the first membership year.

Title 4
Other Legal Services

Your Provider Lawyer will render assistance at a 25% reduction to his or her standard hourly rate* for you or your spouse should you need legal services not covered by this plan. A retainer may be required for services being rendered under this benefit. Five days are required for preparation for court representation.

* Additional Information & Exclusions
Preferred Member Discount: Depending on your legal needs, a retainer may be required by your Provider Law Firm prior to services being rendered under this discount. Your Provider Law Firm is responsible for determining the amount of the retainer and any other anticipated costs. Other costs you may incur include fines, court costs, penalties, expert witness fees, bonds, bail bonds, and any out-of-pocket expenses. These costs are your responsibility and are not included as part of membership benefits. Your Provider Law Firm cannot provide any legal services until payment of the retainer and other costs have been made. If you need representation in court, you must notify your Provider Law Firm at least five business days in advance so they may prepare for your case.


*Hourly rates for Referral Lawyers and court appearances may
vary.

Legal Shield Rider

Do you know your legal rights?

What would you do if you were detained by a law enforcement officer? Do you know your rights?
What would you do if you're injured in an accident?
What if the authorities attempted to remove your child from your home or custody?
What if an officer arrived at your door with a warrant?
Finally, there is one answer to all of those questions!

As a Legal Shield member, present your Legal Shield membership card to the officer. By showing the card, you make it clear you want to call your lawyer immediately. If you are injured in an accident or confronted with the state taking your child, or served with a warrant, you'll be able to contact a lawyer immediately.

To use your Legal Shield, simply call the 24-hour toll-free Legal Shield number. A Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. representative will then connect you to your Provider Law Firm. It's that simple.

1. If you're arrested or detained...
Most law enforcement officers are conscientious and will protect your rights rather than abuse them. If you are stopped or detained by a law enforcement or police officer or questioned by authorities regarding a minor child in your custody, we suggest taking the following precautions:
Cooperate with the officer and ask for permission to get your Legal Shield Card.
If arrested or detained, call the 24-hour, toll-free number on your Legal Shield card.

2. If you're seriously injured...
Of course, the first step is to make sure you and others involved are OK. Your next two calls should be to your insurance company and your lawyer. If you're incapable of making the call because of your injuries, be sure your family knows to call your provider law firm. And, remember; never agree to any offers or settlements from an insurance company without receiving legal counsel first!

3. If the state tries to take your child(ren)...
If you are confronted by authorities and they remove your child(ren) from your custody, call the Legal Shield hotline immediately! You can call 24 hours a day, and 7 days a week.

4. If you're served with a warrant...
If you are approached by authorities and they present a warrant, call the Legal Shield hotline immediately! You can call 24 hours a day, and 7 days a week.

Remember...
The Legal Shield membership will not apply in situations involving:
Any matter in which the member is alleged to be under the influence of or impaired by alcohol, intoxicants, controlled substances, chemicals or medicines.
Alleged domestic violence or alleged stalking.
Assistance in making, posting, or obtaining bond, bail, or other security required for release.



*****************************
All this info can be found at www.pepaidlegal.com under legal plans, plan benefits, then your state.
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#24 UPDATE Employee

I Like Your Research.. But

AUTHOR: Aaron - (U.S.A.)

I'll give you kudos, this was a tough one, but I'll give it a go.

Exposure of information to the public market is not dictated by either exposure to states or time periods. You say PPL fabricates information because it's in most states and several Canadian Provinces plus it's not the 1970's or 80's. Sorry bud, but that has nothing to do with it. The Atkins diet was developed in the 1960's. It was available in books and had magizine articles written about it for forty years. Oddly, most people never heard of it until the turn of the century and it didn't gain widespread popularity until 2003. Similar facts and history exist for many items today including bottled water, cellular telephones, even the zipper. I can attest that as an active Associate with PPL the vast majority of people I talk to have never heard of it and those that have don't know much about it. Remember, information IS available but true exposure doesn't happen until people choose to look at that information.

As to the unique relationship between Kroll and Prepaid Legal, I haven't heard of this relationship being unique in quite some time. It is true that Prepaid Legal is still the major marketer for Kroll's Identity Theft Shield, but it is available (as Identity Theft Smart) to non-profit organizations, as an employee benefit at several companies, and through several financial institutions. The main difference is the initial starting fee which is higher if you go through groups other than PPL. The actual amount varies by instituiton but is as low as $10 and as high as $99.

As to the site you offered, the guarantee is vague but focused around the financial aspect of Identity Theft. Remember, there are five basic types of Identity Theft only one of which involves money or credit fraud. Kroll specifically states that they cover ALL Identity Theft and discusses different types of ID Theft on their site at www.kroll.com. Lifelock only discusses the financial aspect and begs the question as to what they consider to be ID Theft. If you read their guarantee they have to determine your case is considered to be Identity Theft. Additionally, they reserve the right to change your contract at anytime and even cancel at anytime without reason. Furthermore, if you use them you agree to use any professionals of their choosing and those individuals cannot be held accountable if they're not successful. Finally, they charge a $99 start up fee, plus $10 PER adult and $2.50 PER child monthly vice the $9.95 monthly fee it costs for the TOTAL family when you have a PPL membership and $12.95 without the PPL membership. While I can't say they have a bad product (I don't have that much experience with them yet) I can say I'm suspicious of a company that makes you contractually agree not to hold them responsible if they don't do their job. Do they really have a superior product?

If you believe you've found a better product I emplore you to use it. Don't mistake what I say as meaning there's no way a product can be better, only I haven't found one. My goal with my postings is to rebut those who choose to use this forum to make wild and baseless acussations against a product I believe in. These are often individuals who brought problems on themselves and instead of taking responsibility for their actions, or lack of, they choose to shift the blame to someone else. If you've been reading the various strings than you know this is true. There have even been cases of people who had the program work and their problems resolved and they treat it with indifference. They have to ignore PPL Successes to keep the facade of problems going. In a Ripoff Report Investigation they found that several of the reports posted were fraudulent and being posted by PPL Competitors.

Ultimately, nothing has changed. What I said before is still true including the fact that opportunity exists and it's up to the individual to grasp it. The vast majority of people in the US don't have any plan thus the market is still there. I will stand by this until I get different results as I encounter new people. When the majority have heard of my product and have an understanding of PPL then I'll say the market is drying up. But now it's still good to go. I applaud your research and wish you the best in the future in whichever endeavors you choose.
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#25 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Aaron, your statement is correct!

AUTHOR: Galen - (U.S.A.)

You stated, "As one of my Executive Directors, Mr. Steve Hoisington, has said: 'We have the same tools, we have the same market, the only difference is you!'"

And this market (i.e. MOST of the U.S. and only 4 provinces in Canada) has been exposed not only to PPLSI, but other prepaid legal service providers.

For the company to tout "....only 2% of the poplulation even knows about us", is a fabrication in this day & age. This is NOT the 1970s or even the '80s....

While I personally have no issue with the legal service offer, there ARE other companines (no, not ALL of them) that DO offer identity restoration and some even monitor ALL 3 credit reporting agencies!

So, what started as a "unique idea" is no longer that. I read in this thread (or another complaint against PPL) that Kroll's partnership w/PPL is not unique. According to the post, the IDT is being offered under another name by another company with whom Kroll's partnered! I just wonder if it one of PPL's competitors....

I'll even give you a freebie: Check out http://www.lifelock.com who offers an identity theft service. See how it stacks up to the IDT....
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#26 UPDATE Employee

Easy way out

AUTHOR: Aaron - (U.S.A.)

Having noticed a trend with the negative comments within this report a couple of things come to mind:

1. Opponents quickly resort to calling PPL a scam and a rip off while often not providing any specifics on their negative experiences with the service or the problems they had as associates.

2. Most of those that provide any details usually keep them vague in an attempt to discredit the service when in fact their circumstances are often more severe by the time they thought to use it. Example: You don't get arrested for a traffic ticket so their must be more to this story.

3. The one person who provided genuine details were provided, the facts were misconstrued to imply a poor service when in one case the service worked and in the other two this individual waited until the situations had exploded to extreme proportion before deciding to use it.

The service itself is meant to be PREVENTATIVE. This means when you have a situation developing, use the service. If I buy a lawnmower and wait until the grass is waist high to mow it, it's not the mower's fault if I can't cut the grass. I have used the service on many occasions whether I have a situation or not. Sometimes I use it just to resolve legal curiosities that I encounter. Example: In addition to being a PPL Associate, I also work at Lowe's. There are many people who's less then ethical behavior when fixing a house to rent or sell may lead to legal problems in the future. I have my attorney's give me the answers to these possible legal situations so I can better qualify customers and make better sales.

In regards to the idea of a scam. The fact that there is a real service, now supported by all 50 states, several Canadian provinces and attorneys in all of these location discredits the idea of this being a scam. A scam leaves the victim with nothing while the service provided by PPL is very real and requires that YOU take the initiative to use it. For those choosing to be associates, nobody said the money comes easy. It's important that you put forth the effort treating it like a job instead of sitting back expecting a paycheck.

As one of my Executive Directors, Mr. Steve Hoisington, has said: "We have the same tools, we have the same market, the only difference is you!" I hate to be a dream breaker, but no job exists that's going to pay you to stay at home and do nothing. As I search for recruits I see this attitude forming more often. Almost daily I hear someone say "I want to work at home so I don't have someone looking over my shoulder, but I want a steady paycheck." Sorry, it's not going to happen.

A company isn't going to pay you hourly for work that can't be tracked and gauged. What's really being said is "Let me stay at home and watch my soaps while you pay me for it."

Bottom line: If you want success you have to make it. It's not going to fall in your lap while you sit around waiting. Look at those you went to school with who were working at fast food while waiting for an opportunity. There's a good bet that today they're still at fast food waiting while others have fulfilled their dreams by going out and making them happen. In the future, expect to work for your dreams instead of looking for the easy way out.
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#27 Consumer Comment

PPL is no different than your job

AUTHOR: Alfred J - (U.S.A.)

PPl gives you an opportunity to make an extra income. ignorance of the product or dishonest associates are the only way you get ripped off.

Beause PPl is an MLM company does not make it a scam. If you understand any company, they are all MLM centered, Real Estate Brokers make money off of the agents, insurance agencies make money off of the agents. Corporate America makes money of of the employees work.Also, you can't bypass your boss even if you work harder than he or she does.

If the consumer would educate themselves on the company you would understand what they can and can't do. The people you are feeding you bad press did not follow the system and they are upset because they didn't do what was required. Companies like Walmart, Sams, UPS, Fedex and various other companies are in the news for violations but they are still thriving. Remember one thing, it is not the product that is bad it is the dishonest person who misrepresents it. PPL has helped alot of people.
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#28 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Alabama? You're part of a lawsuit

AUTHOR: Daniel - (U.S.A.)

If you're really in the state of Alabama, you are party to a lawsuit against PPL.
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#29 Consumer Comment

Former Associate

AUTHOR: Daniel - (U.S.A.)

Dude, it's an MLM scam destined to collapse in upon itself. PPL has been sued by associates, members, and shareholders. Most of their income comes from their associates. Their associates recuit people, most of who leave. The idea behind PPL is that they try to recruit at a faster rate than their current members cancel. New eager associates, like myself, will make the mistake of being sucked in for the chance of easy money. We figure it out, and hopefully sooner. New recruits will then emerge to take our place.
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#30 Consumer Comment

Good advice, Aaron

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Excellent synopsis and advice, Aaron. Potential PPL clients need to understand that the product is primarily for preventitive, advisory legal assistance. You are simply NOT going to get a litigator for $26 a month.

You could pay $26 a month for the rest of your life and still not come close to having paid the cost of most litigation. So it doesn't really make any kind of business sense for PPL, or the provider attorneys, to offer litigation services under the standard monthly plan.

I just hope that PPL clients are fully informed of this. When most people think of "legal help" they think of a guy in a courtroom, not a guy shooting off letters from his office (even though the latter is the great bulk of legal work).
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#31 Consumer Comment

Good advice, Aaron

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Excellent synopsis and advice, Aaron. Potential PPL clients need to understand that the product is primarily for preventitive, advisory legal assistance. You are simply NOT going to get a litigator for $26 a month.

You could pay $26 a month for the rest of your life and still not come close to having paid the cost of most litigation. So it doesn't really make any kind of business sense for PPL, or the provider attorneys, to offer litigation services under the standard monthly plan.

I just hope that PPL clients are fully informed of this. When most people think of "legal help" they think of a guy in a courtroom, not a guy shooting off letters from his office (even though the latter is the great bulk of legal work).
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#32 Consumer Comment

Good advice, Aaron

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Excellent synopsis and advice, Aaron. Potential PPL clients need to understand that the product is primarily for preventitive, advisory legal assistance. You are simply NOT going to get a litigator for $26 a month.

You could pay $26 a month for the rest of your life and still not come close to having paid the cost of most litigation. So it doesn't really make any kind of business sense for PPL, or the provider attorneys, to offer litigation services under the standard monthly plan.

I just hope that PPL clients are fully informed of this. When most people think of "legal help" they think of a guy in a courtroom, not a guy shooting off letters from his office (even though the latter is the great bulk of legal work).
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#33 Consumer Comment

Good advice, Aaron

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Excellent synopsis and advice, Aaron. Potential PPL clients need to understand that the product is primarily for preventitive, advisory legal assistance. You are simply NOT going to get a litigator for $26 a month.

You could pay $26 a month for the rest of your life and still not come close to having paid the cost of most litigation. So it doesn't really make any kind of business sense for PPL, or the provider attorneys, to offer litigation services under the standard monthly plan.

I just hope that PPL clients are fully informed of this. When most people think of "legal help" they think of a guy in a courtroom, not a guy shooting off letters from his office (even though the latter is the great bulk of legal work).
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#34 UPDATE Employee

Use it Properly

AUTHOR: Aaron - (U.S.A.)

While I have only had my Prepaid Legal Membership for 6 months I can say that I have seen obvious benefits. Specifically I used it 3 times in the following circumstances:

1) In June 04 I rented a car during a vacation with my family. Upon returning the car to the rental agency an on-site inspection was conducted and a card filled out stating the car was in good shape. Two weeks later a representative called me saying that I owed an estimated $2000 in repairs for scratches discovered a week after I returned the car. For nearly a year I fought this charge since the car was cleared when I returned it. When I got PPL the provider firm sent a letter to the company who, in return, sent me a letter telling me that charges made against me were null and void.

2) When I separated from the Navy in May 05 the PN's in charge of our office refused to turn over my copy of my DD214 on the basis that I had not "properly" checked out. There were several forms they had not completed that would eventually need my signature. I informed them that their inability to have the forms prepared in a timely manner was not my responsibility and they had no right to withold my DD214 because of it. The disagreed so I contacted my provider firm. The firm put me in touch with a civilian attorney and former JAG who specialized in military law. The attorney called my command and spoke with both my Department Head and Commanding Officer. The command turned over my DD214 an hour later.

3) November 2005 I was heading home from my new civilian job at Lowe's. It was about 1 am and halfway home I saw the red and blue lights of a police car behind me. The officer walked up, I handed him my Legal Shield card, he read it, informed me that my headlights weren't on and sent me on my way.

While there are those who don't appreciate the services provided by Prepaid Legal they are very real and rewarding when used properly. Most complaints seem to focus around people that wait until a small problem becomes a big one before they act and by that time it may be too late to receive a favorable judgement. Call your attorneys for advise and document reviews BEFORE you sign up for a scam, then you never spend $8000 which you may not be able to get back. While the attorneys may be good, no attorney can guarantee success, especially if the law favors the other guy.

On a side note, When it is mentioned that an item is "not accounted for" is that not the same as missing? I.E. When reporting musters you say "All present and accounted for." Everyone is there or you know where they are. If they are not present or accounted for they are UA or AWOL...missing. Since equipment doesn't leave on its own volition, when it's not where it's supposed to be and no one knows where it is it's either stolen, misplaced or taken for use without properly being checked out. In any of these cases...it's missing.

In the end, Prepaid Legal offers preventative legal services. They are designed, by nature, to try and keep you out of the courtroom to begin with. The consultations and other Title I benifits they offer can easily save a person thousands of dollars if that person chooses to use them. Many don't then find themselves with serious legal and financial problems that, by this point, the attorneys can't fix with a phone call so the member becomes upset and blames the attorney or the company. Next time try using the Title I benifits before your situation becomes a problem and you'll find a lot more success with your service.
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#35 UPDATE Employee

Another Perspective

AUTHOR: Bill - (U.S.A.)

I am an independent associate for PPL and I wanted to offer another perspective. First, I don't know if this necessarily means very much but for a company that's been in business for 32 years and purportedly has almost 1.5 million members, 4 complaints on this site don't really seem like a damning indictment of Prepaid Legal.

Also, there are certainly any number of Independent Associates who will promise you the moon and stars just to make a sale. I've had great success because I explain to potential clients what this service can do as well as what it can't. I have found that by being honest and upfront with people you will set their expectations properly so that there are few if any misunderstandings in the future.

Many people join when they have an actual pressing legal problem and tend to be in a heightened emotional state which can cause them to hear things that were never said. I've been in sales long enough to know that some people hear what they want. That's life.

Also, I know this may come as a surprise but to the person who noted that lawyers don't do this for the referrals...I'd like to believe that they have contracted with Prepaid Legal because they are actually helping out people who need legal advice and can't afford their normal fees. I've have nothing but positive experiences with lawyers - on the few occassions I've had to deal with them! - and most of them want to be of service and don't even come close to the very distorted, very unfair stereotype of what is lawyer is.
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#36 UPDATE Employee

I've received my response from the provider attorney

AUTHOR: Jacqueline - (U.S.A.)

on Tuesday, 09/06/05 at 9:58 am CST. My provider attorney was more than helpful, answered EVERY question I asked about the agreement, and told me what to look out for in the agreement. I couldn't have asked for a better response to my inquiry. Stephanie, by the way, you stated that "I've attended many PPL meetings" you didn't say how long ago. I thought I had read it correctly. I wish you all well and I hope and pray that you just make the right decision for your situation.

Peace
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#37 Consumer Comment

Glad to be in America. Everyones right to their opinion

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

I think it 's great to live in a country were we can all agree to disagree. Each of us can express our point of view openly in such a forum.
My wife and I have been business members for 6 years and have used our membership many times with favorable and satisfactory results.
For others the results you obtain from your member firm depends on the firm. A great service is the fact we can call PPL customer service and tell them if there is a problem with a provider firm. We cannot possibly speak for all of them, but the 2 firms we have used have been great.
Most ofetn questions are addressed promptly, and contracts are reviewed for us within a day or two. Our small business cannot afford to have an attorney on retainer. Most matters can be handled over the phone or with a letter from the provider law firm.
Is PPL perfect for everyone and every legal matter that may arise? No, of course not. But it does afford a more level field for those of us that cannot afford high priced justice.
We live in an ever changing society and legal issues arise more and more. The ID shield is a program unlike any other. Just do some research and see what horror stories people tell that have been victims of ID theft. 600 or more hours to straighten out the entire matter, and how $ and time required is a horror in itself.
My wife and I are fulltime artists and teachers, PPL is a service we use, tell others about and don't beleive for a moment that this is a scam or pyramid scheme in a way.

Thanks for reading,
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#38 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Uh...I said "I've attended many meetings."

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I didn't say that I was still attending them regularly. I haven't attended one in almost 2 years. Try reading more carefully.
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#39 UPDATE Employee

Just one question for you, Stephanie...

AUTHOR: Jacqueline - (U.S.A.)

Why are you attending so many PPL meetings if you're not interested in it AND if you think it's a cult/religious sect that wants your money? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
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#40 UPDATE Employee

I'm sorry, Stephanie

AUTHOR: Jacqueline - (U.S.A.)

However, I can verify for you all of the accounts that I mentioned above. I'm sorry that your faith in the company has been faultered by some lack of information that you have failed to achieve up to this point. I'm sure you have seen all of the other postings here on rip-off report, so I don't need to go into too much more detail about the program and its benefits. If you are an unbeliever, then you are entitled to those non-beliefs. Please don't misunderstand my message to you -- I'm only trying to help you and others understand that this program is a one-of-a-kind opportunity that allows you to have "equal justice" in our litigious society. I just used the program again today to have a 5 page agreement reviewed by my provider attorney. This agreement has some language in it that I, as a lay person, would not understand to the fullest extent. Case in point about how the program works for this benefit.

1. I received the agreement for my signature yesterday
2. I read through the same agreement for my signature yesterday
3. I didn't understand everything in that agreement that was prepared for my signature yesterday
4. I called the provider attorney's office today (09/01/05)at 8:41 am CST and spoke with their very nice customer service representative
5. Received a call back from the attorney assigned to my case at 9:01 am
6. Faxed agreement to the attorney at 9:20 am
7. Attorney has 3 business days to review the agreement and return a call to me regarding what it means EXACTLY for me as well as if any changes need to be made (legal agreements are set up for the benefit and protection of the company that is handing to you -- not for YOUR benefit). Since it has only been about 1-1/2 hours since I faxed the agreement to the attorney, I will log back into this forum once I receive his response to let you know when I received it. My past experience with this area of coverage has been a return call within 1 day after I have sent it to them and they have reviewed an agreement for me.

Again, I can (and will) verify any and ALL claims that I made above for you. Feel free to go to my website and click on the "e-mail me" link. I will respond to your request for more information and let you speak with the people that were involved in the situations if you would like. My web address is www.prepaidlegal.com/hub/j_murray

This invitation is being sent to any and all others who are also in denial at this point. As Thomas Jefferson said, "Enlighten the people generally and tyranny and oppression of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day."

Have a nice one.
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#41 UPDATE EX-employee responds

We're sorry but...

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

PPL is just another multi-level marketing scam. Jacqueline's stories sound like business-promoting rumors. I've attended many PPL meetings and PPL is just like the many organized religions I've been exposed to that persuade their members to pay 10% of their income for tithing.
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#42 UPDATE Employee

Mickey, I'm sorry but...

AUTHOR: Jacqueline - (U.S.A.)

I am an associate of PPL and I have a few comments to make regarding your last posting. Regarding your statement that "it would have been all too simple to get back the $120 without a lawyer, especially in two friggin weeks!" -- the consumer was already flustered because they were unable to resolve the conflict on their own. The provider attorney resolved that problem for them. Please give them the credit they are due for making this happen.

Second, I agree the provider attorney should have referred the client to another attorney that would have taken the case under their PPL membership. I would suggest that the consumer contact PPL customer service to log a complaint. PPL usually responds within 24 hours regarding customer complaints.

The credit crap is actually a wonderful benefit. The $9.95 subscription is for monitoring (yes, just as experian would provide), however it also includes restoration services which is the biggest benefit of the identity theft service. Experian does not provide this service as many other companies also do not provide it. Many consumers are spending a lot of time and money to restore their credit after it is breached. This service (actually provided by Kroll Worldwide http://www.krollworldwide.com) allows the consumer to make ONE phone call to receive their benefits).

I'm sorry you had problems using your legal shield. I have heard first hand accounts of others who have used the legal shield and have found it quite useful. For example, my next door neighbor has the decal on her car. She was stopped for speeding and when the police officer saw her decal he told her to have a nice day and sent her on her way. Also, one of my customers called me with a testamony two days after he received his benefit package. He was standing outside with a female in downtown Baltimore. Two police officers stopped their cruiser and proceeded to ask them for identification. He stated that he "only had his 'pre-legal' card" and asked if they wanted to see that instead. One of the officers chimed out to the other that my customer was covered by Pre-Paid Legal. The officers let him go on his way. The female had to stay behind. I don't know what happened to her, but I would venture to say that my customer was happy he was walking down the street at that time. He called me with this testimony and immediately signed on to be an associate as well. I would suggest that you just hand your card to the officers in order to use this part of the benefit. I wouldn't get crazy and start pulling my cell phone out while putting my index finger in the air for them to wait for me to complete a call. How many police officers do you think would actually take that from a citizen? Right...it's all about doing things in decency. PPL specifically states that you may not be able to use this part of your benefit right away because you are essentially at the mercy of the law enforcement agency or officer, but you will be able to use the benefit as soon as you are given your "one phone call" if your should need to.

I have found the Title I lawyers to be quite responsive to my needs as well. I have had several instances to contact them and have, generally, been pleased with the advice I was given. In fact, they were able to keep me out of an illegal leasing agreement they reviewed for me. Yes, there are times that an attorney will tell you what you DON'T want to hear. I'm speaking in general instances here. Any attorney who tells you they can win ANY case for you is lying to you. PPL is not telling you that you are going to win every case you have or that you are going to hear the advice you want to hear. Their job is to interpret the law and tell you what your options are.

I want to give a criminal case example now...I have a friend who has a 19 year old daughter who got into trouble and was looking at 30 years in jail. She is out and about because of PPL. He received the 25% discount and only paid $1,200 for counsel. Pretty good, huh?

When your father decided to purchase an account for his business, please tell me that he purchased the small business plan that comes with legal AND business consults. The wrong product for a client is the worst mistake to make when making sales. I understand that the lawyer you have now does not charge a retainer, and is charging you per hour- per issue. That's excellent! You may want to reconsider your decision and take a look at the small business plan though. Here's a link to my website for that information: http://wserver0.prepaidlegal.com/Multisite/Multisite?site=biz&assoc=j_murray.

Have a great day and I wish you well in your endeavors.
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#43 UPDATE Employee

Mickey, I'm sorry but...

AUTHOR: Jacqueline - (U.S.A.)

I am an associate of PPL and I have a few comments to make regarding your last posting. Regarding your statement that "it would have been all too simple to get back the $120 without a lawyer, especially in two friggin weeks!" -- the consumer was already flustered because they were unable to resolve the conflict on their own. The provider attorney resolved that problem for them. Please give them the credit they are due for making this happen.

Second, I agree the provider attorney should have referred the client to another attorney that would have taken the case under their PPL membership. I would suggest that the consumer contact PPL customer service to log a complaint. PPL usually responds within 24 hours regarding customer complaints.

The credit crap is actually a wonderful benefit. The $9.95 subscription is for monitoring (yes, just as experian would provide), however it also includes restoration services which is the biggest benefit of the identity theft service. Experian does not provide this service as many other companies also do not provide it. Many consumers are spending a lot of time and money to restore their credit after it is breached. This service (actually provided by Kroll Worldwide http://www.krollworldwide.com) allows the consumer to make ONE phone call to receive their benefits).

I'm sorry you had problems using your legal shield. I have heard first hand accounts of others who have used the legal shield and have found it quite useful. For example, my next door neighbor has the decal on her car. She was stopped for speeding and when the police officer saw her decal he told her to have a nice day and sent her on her way. Also, one of my customers called me with a testamony two days after he received his benefit package. He was standing outside with a female in downtown Baltimore. Two police officers stopped their cruiser and proceeded to ask them for identification. He stated that he "only had his 'pre-legal' card" and asked if they wanted to see that instead. One of the officers chimed out to the other that my customer was covered by Pre-Paid Legal. The officers let him go on his way. The female had to stay behind. I don't know what happened to her, but I would venture to say that my customer was happy he was walking down the street at that time. He called me with this testimony and immediately signed on to be an associate as well. I would suggest that you just hand your card to the officers in order to use this part of the benefit. I wouldn't get crazy and start pulling my cell phone out while putting my index finger in the air for them to wait for me to complete a call. How many police officers do you think would actually take that from a citizen? Right...it's all about doing things in decency. PPL specifically states that you may not be able to use this part of your benefit right away because you are essentially at the mercy of the law enforcement agency or officer, but you will be able to use the benefit as soon as you are given your "one phone call" if your should need to.

I have found the Title I lawyers to be quite responsive to my needs as well. I have had several instances to contact them and have, generally, been pleased with the advice I was given. In fact, they were able to keep me out of an illegal leasing agreement they reviewed for me. Yes, there are times that an attorney will tell you what you DON'T want to hear. I'm speaking in general instances here. Any attorney who tells you they can win ANY case for you is lying to you. PPL is not telling you that you are going to win every case you have or that you are going to hear the advice you want to hear. Their job is to interpret the law and tell you what your options are.

I want to give a criminal case example now...I have a friend who has a 19 year old daughter who got into trouble and was looking at 30 years in jail. She is out and about because of PPL. He received the 25% discount and only paid $1,200 for counsel. Pretty good, huh?

When your father decided to purchase an account for his business, please tell me that he purchased the small business plan that comes with legal AND business consults. The wrong product for a client is the worst mistake to make when making sales. I understand that the lawyer you have now does not charge a retainer, and is charging you per hour- per issue. That's excellent! You may want to reconsider your decision and take a look at the small business plan though. Here's a link to my website for that information: http://wserver0.prepaidlegal.com/Multisite/Multisite?site=biz&assoc=j_murray.

Have a great day and I wish you well in your endeavors.
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#44 UPDATE Employee

Mickey, I'm sorry but...

AUTHOR: Jacqueline - (U.S.A.)

I am an associate of PPL and I have a few comments to make regarding your last posting. Regarding your statement that "it would have been all too simple to get back the $120 without a lawyer, especially in two friggin weeks!" -- the consumer was already flustered because they were unable to resolve the conflict on their own. The provider attorney resolved that problem for them. Please give them the credit they are due for making this happen.

Second, I agree the provider attorney should have referred the client to another attorney that would have taken the case under their PPL membership. I would suggest that the consumer contact PPL customer service to log a complaint. PPL usually responds within 24 hours regarding customer complaints.

The credit crap is actually a wonderful benefit. The $9.95 subscription is for monitoring (yes, just as experian would provide), however it also includes restoration services which is the biggest benefit of the identity theft service. Experian does not provide this service as many other companies also do not provide it. Many consumers are spending a lot of time and money to restore their credit after it is breached. This service (actually provided by Kroll Worldwide http://www.krollworldwide.com) allows the consumer to make ONE phone call to receive their benefits).

I'm sorry you had problems using your legal shield. I have heard first hand accounts of others who have used the legal shield and have found it quite useful. For example, my next door neighbor has the decal on her car. She was stopped for speeding and when the police officer saw her decal he told her to have a nice day and sent her on her way. Also, one of my customers called me with a testamony two days after he received his benefit package. He was standing outside with a female in downtown Baltimore. Two police officers stopped their cruiser and proceeded to ask them for identification. He stated that he "only had his 'pre-legal' card" and asked if they wanted to see that instead. One of the officers chimed out to the other that my customer was covered by Pre-Paid Legal. The officers let him go on his way. The female had to stay behind. I don't know what happened to her, but I would venture to say that my customer was happy he was walking down the street at that time. He called me with this testimony and immediately signed on to be an associate as well. I would suggest that you just hand your card to the officers in order to use this part of the benefit. I wouldn't get crazy and start pulling my cell phone out while putting my index finger in the air for them to wait for me to complete a call. How many police officers do you think would actually take that from a citizen? Right...it's all about doing things in decency. PPL specifically states that you may not be able to use this part of your benefit right away because you are essentially at the mercy of the law enforcement agency or officer, but you will be able to use the benefit as soon as you are given your "one phone call" if your should need to.

I have found the Title I lawyers to be quite responsive to my needs as well. I have had several instances to contact them and have, generally, been pleased with the advice I was given. In fact, they were able to keep me out of an illegal leasing agreement they reviewed for me. Yes, there are times that an attorney will tell you what you DON'T want to hear. I'm speaking in general instances here. Any attorney who tells you they can win ANY case for you is lying to you. PPL is not telling you that you are going to win every case you have or that you are going to hear the advice you want to hear. Their job is to interpret the law and tell you what your options are.

I want to give a criminal case example now...I have a friend who has a 19 year old daughter who got into trouble and was looking at 30 years in jail. She is out and about because of PPL. He received the 25% discount and only paid $1,200 for counsel. Pretty good, huh?

When your father decided to purchase an account for his business, please tell me that he purchased the small business plan that comes with legal AND business consults. The wrong product for a client is the worst mistake to make when making sales. I understand that the lawyer you have now does not charge a retainer, and is charging you per hour- per issue. That's excellent! You may want to reconsider your decision and take a look at the small business plan though. Here's a link to my website for that information: http://wserver0.prepaidlegal.com/Multisite/Multisite?site=biz&assoc=j_murray.

Have a great day and I wish you well in your endeavors.
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#45 Consumer Comment

Good points

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Mickey, I think you've hit the nail right on the head.

As regards the military law, however, I can tell you for a near certainty that civil lawyers willing to take cases under the UCMJ are few and far between. Substantive law is one thing, lawyers routinely operate in different jurisdictions with different substantive laws. But 70% of the practice of law is procedure, and military courts operate under procedures that are far removed from their civilian counterparts. In the interest of ethics, a lawyer should never take on a case if he doesn't understand the controlling law. If you can find me one civilian law school with a course in military law, I'll think about changing my mind.

That, however, is irrelevant to the issue of whether PPL should have provided the military client with representation. On that issue, I agree with you.

AS for the rest of your comments, they illustrate the flaw in the system: good lawyers don't need referrals from PPL, and they surely won't be accepting reduced fees for the sake of increased business.
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#46 UPDATE EX-employee responds

PPLSI Is Ridiculous!!!

AUTHOR: Mickey - (U.S.A.)

First of all, it would have been all too simple to get back the $120 without a lawyer, especially in two friggin weeks!

Second, as an ex-military member, and one who used non-military lawyers while in service, you are wrong about non-JAG lawyers not knowing military law. PPL claims to represent all areas of the law, and if they could not find her one that had knowledge in military law within their firm, it is their duty to refer her to one that DOES know military law- at NO charge because it would still be under Title I. You don't give up your rights to title one just because they don't have a lawyer smart enough to help out.

BTW, I was an independant associate myself, and even as an associate I didn't get any friggin help.

Now, let me tell you some of the problems I have with PPL.

First of all, the credit crap is just that- crap. They can't protect you any better than having a 9.95 subscription to Experian- the company they use anyways. You want protection AND want to view your report when you want it? Get the subscription directly from the source.

Second, the Legal Shield is BS. I was pulled over 3 times while I had the Legal Shield, and being on the phone trying to get a lawyer just got me into trouble for routine stops. In one instance, the receptionist said he would wait on the phone to see what happend to me before he got a lawyer on the phone, and within seconds I was in handcuffs. I got myself out of that trouble, the cop hung up my call with the lawyer. If you never get stopped (I was driving while black), then you won't have that problem to begin with.

The Title I lawyers are generally smart asses, who think you have no where else to go, and figure you will just handle the matter yourself when you get fed up with them. I had several problems where not even the lawyer I was referred to was able to help.

Later, my father decided to purchase an account for his business. Within a week we decided it was going anywhere, as none of the lawyers at that law firm were able to address any of the simplest issues we had with out business. They claim to have the best lawyers (AV rated), but most lawyers who are not registered have been practicing law long enough to not give a damn about registration. The lawyer we have now does not charge a retainer, and is charging us per hour- per issue. He is one of the 3 top lawyers in our area, and he is not rated. Everyone in town seems to know who he is, yet he doesn't know who the hell the PPL law firm is.
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#47 UPDATE Employee

When did Americans Quit Being Responsable for Themselves?

AUTHOR: Wendy - (U.S.A.)

Why do you only hear "oh, Whoas Me?" instead of I took a little action and found out...

I'm sure when you signed up and received your information, and benefits package in the mail you read it thoughly, Right? Probably not.

Most people don't then they wonder why it didn't work for them. It must be the companies fault or the attorneys fault. No way anyone would ever take a moment to think maybe there was something else that could be done, or God forbid it was their own fault.

Remember when your opened your package, ripped the cards out of the front, with only a passing glance, prehaps a slight scan of the information contained inside? Yeah, Great! We're on the right track, inside there was a handy dandy little phone number to CONSUMER RELATIONS, ever think maybe they could help? I just bet they could.

Would you ever dream of setting up a swing set and letting your little precious ones climb on it, without having read the instructions? Or at the very least whilst you were putting it together and seemed it seemed slightly "off"; to take a moment to glance at said instructions and see where something may have gone wrong?

Most people would be offended to think it is solely their fault, or even partially. Oft times though it is. Were you clear when you spoke with the law firm? Or did call in the heat of the moment ranting? Did you take the time to gather all pertinent information, so you had the facts needed?

The layers associated with PPL are AV rated law firms all of the Law firm listed as primary providered in each area are. There are over 2700 referal law firms they are required to be of a BV rating or above. Most law firms are not even rated outside prepaid. I don't wish to quote a number that I am not up date on, however at last I heard it was something like 70% of American lawyers are not.

Please folks take a moment to always make sure that you know how to use something before you begin ranting and raving about it faults. PPL has spent years trying to help average people like you and I from being taken by the world of law. Which does have a bad name and for good reason. There is no one to watch over our laws except lawyers, and they are the only ones who know the laws, because they help write them! PPL is there mainly for preventitive legal services. There is no penalty for using your service! For goodness sakes call your law firm before you get into a mess and there will be no extra fees! They are there to help keep you out of court, and to help you from being scammed, they are not scamming you.

Do a little research you will find this to be true. P.S. If this truely was some kind of Scam, why can you cancel at anytime? Why not make you sign long cell-phone-like contracts? Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.
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#48 UPDATE Employee

When did Americans Quit Being Responsable for Themselves?

AUTHOR: Wendy - (U.S.A.)

Why do you only hear "oh, Whoas Me?" instead of I took a little action and found out...

I'm sure when you signed up and received your information, and benefits package in the mail you read it thoughly, Right? Probably not.

Most people don't then they wonder why it didn't work for them. It must be the companies fault or the attorneys fault. No way anyone would ever take a moment to think maybe there was something else that could be done, or God forbid it was their own fault.

Remember when your opened your package, ripped the cards out of the front, with only a passing glance, prehaps a slight scan of the information contained inside? Yeah, Great! We're on the right track, inside there was a handy dandy little phone number to CONSUMER RELATIONS, ever think maybe they could help? I just bet they could.

Would you ever dream of setting up a swing set and letting your little precious ones climb on it, without having read the instructions? Or at the very least whilst you were putting it together and seemed it seemed slightly "off"; to take a moment to glance at said instructions and see where something may have gone wrong?

Most people would be offended to think it is solely their fault, or even partially. Oft times though it is. Were you clear when you spoke with the law firm? Or did call in the heat of the moment ranting? Did you take the time to gather all pertinent information, so you had the facts needed?

The layers associated with PPL are AV rated law firms all of the Law firm listed as primary providered in each area are. There are over 2700 referal law firms they are required to be of a BV rating or above. Most law firms are not even rated outside prepaid. I don't wish to quote a number that I am not up date on, however at last I heard it was something like 70% of American lawyers are not.

Please folks take a moment to always make sure that you know how to use something before you begin ranting and raving about it faults. PPL has spent years trying to help average people like you and I from being taken by the world of law. Which does have a bad name and for good reason. There is no one to watch over our laws except lawyers, and they are the only ones who know the laws, because they help write them! PPL is there mainly for preventitive legal services. There is no penalty for using your service! For goodness sakes call your law firm before you get into a mess and there will be no extra fees! They are there to help keep you out of court, and to help you from being scammed, they are not scamming you.

Do a little research you will find this to be true. P.S. If this truely was some kind of Scam, why can you cancel at anytime? Why not make you sign long cell-phone-like contracts? Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.
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#49 Consumer Comment

Contractor status has nothing to do with agency, torts have nothing to do with contracts

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

James, it's a good thing you're not offering legal advice, because you lack a basic understanding of the law.

First of all, contracts and torts are completely separate areas of the law. Contract actions are those that stem from purely economic injuries. They are rooted in agreements, or purported agreements.

Torts, on the other hand, are all other non-economic injuries. Assault, trespass, personal injuries, etc, are common examples of torts. Economic fraud is also a tort, but this is because of the fraud element, not the economic element. To say that tort reform somehow relates to contracts is completely wrong.

Your understanding of agency is also deeply flawed. The employee/contractor dichotomy is virtually irrelevant to the question of whether one is an agent. If somebody hires me to perform a task, regardless of whether I will be acting in an employment or contractor capacity, I am an agent. The bounds of my "agency" will be set by the nature of my job.

If I am a salesman, even if I am an independently contracted salesman, I am an agent of the company that hired me. And, as an agent, my acts that are within the scope of my agency are imputed to my employer.

Agency principles are NOT AT ALL dependent on how the agent and principal decide to define their relationship. They are entirely dependent on the expectancies of third parties. PPL CAN NOT absolve themselves of vicarious liability by labelling their salesforce "independent contractors." It just doesn't work that way. The inquiry is into whether third parties would reasonably think that the agent has the authority to make the representations at issue. If he can make such a reasonable assumption, the principal, if he exists, is responsible for those representations. Whether the agent is an employee or an independent contractor won't even enter into the equation.

And there is good reason for this. Legal academics call it "enterprise liability." A person, company, corporation, whatever, that enters into a certain business, operated in a certain way, must bear the risks inherent in such an operation. If PPL decides to bypass the duty of ensuring that it only employs ethical, trustworthy salespeople, then PPL must bear the inherent risk of liability stemming from such a policy. You profit from it, you are liable for it.

PPL benefits from increased volume by engaging in indiscriminate recruiting. If this tactic goes wrong, if a customer is "overpromised," PPL IS CULPABLE and MUST BEAR THE LIABILITY. And rightly so.
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#50 Consumer Comment

Contractor status has nothing to do with agency, torts have nothing to do with contracts

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

James, it's a good thing you're not offering legal advice, because you lack a basic understanding of the law.

First of all, contracts and torts are completely separate areas of the law. Contract actions are those that stem from purely economic injuries. They are rooted in agreements, or purported agreements.

Torts, on the other hand, are all other non-economic injuries. Assault, trespass, personal injuries, etc, are common examples of torts. Economic fraud is also a tort, but this is because of the fraud element, not the economic element. To say that tort reform somehow relates to contracts is completely wrong.

Your understanding of agency is also deeply flawed. The employee/contractor dichotomy is virtually irrelevant to the question of whether one is an agent. If somebody hires me to perform a task, regardless of whether I will be acting in an employment or contractor capacity, I am an agent. The bounds of my "agency" will be set by the nature of my job.

If I am a salesman, even if I am an independently contracted salesman, I am an agent of the company that hired me. And, as an agent, my acts that are within the scope of my agency are imputed to my employer.

Agency principles are NOT AT ALL dependent on how the agent and principal decide to define their relationship. They are entirely dependent on the expectancies of third parties. PPL CAN NOT absolve themselves of vicarious liability by labelling their salesforce "independent contractors." It just doesn't work that way. The inquiry is into whether third parties would reasonably think that the agent has the authority to make the representations at issue. If he can make such a reasonable assumption, the principal, if he exists, is responsible for those representations. Whether the agent is an employee or an independent contractor won't even enter into the equation.

And there is good reason for this. Legal academics call it "enterprise liability." A person, company, corporation, whatever, that enters into a certain business, operated in a certain way, must bear the risks inherent in such an operation. If PPL decides to bypass the duty of ensuring that it only employs ethical, trustworthy salespeople, then PPL must bear the inherent risk of liability stemming from such a policy. You profit from it, you are liable for it.

PPL benefits from increased volume by engaging in indiscriminate recruiting. If this tactic goes wrong, if a customer is "overpromised," PPL IS CULPABLE and MUST BEAR THE LIABILITY. And rightly so.
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#51 Consumer Comment

Contractor status has nothing to do with agency, torts have nothing to do with contracts

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

James, it's a good thing you're not offering legal advice, because you lack a basic understanding of the law.

First of all, contracts and torts are completely separate areas of the law. Contract actions are those that stem from purely economic injuries. They are rooted in agreements, or purported agreements.

Torts, on the other hand, are all other non-economic injuries. Assault, trespass, personal injuries, etc, are common examples of torts. Economic fraud is also a tort, but this is because of the fraud element, not the economic element. To say that tort reform somehow relates to contracts is completely wrong.

Your understanding of agency is also deeply flawed. The employee/contractor dichotomy is virtually irrelevant to the question of whether one is an agent. If somebody hires me to perform a task, regardless of whether I will be acting in an employment or contractor capacity, I am an agent. The bounds of my "agency" will be set by the nature of my job.

If I am a salesman, even if I am an independently contracted salesman, I am an agent of the company that hired me. And, as an agent, my acts that are within the scope of my agency are imputed to my employer.

Agency principles are NOT AT ALL dependent on how the agent and principal decide to define their relationship. They are entirely dependent on the expectancies of third parties. PPL CAN NOT absolve themselves of vicarious liability by labelling their salesforce "independent contractors." It just doesn't work that way. The inquiry is into whether third parties would reasonably think that the agent has the authority to make the representations at issue. If he can make such a reasonable assumption, the principal, if he exists, is responsible for those representations. Whether the agent is an employee or an independent contractor won't even enter into the equation.

And there is good reason for this. Legal academics call it "enterprise liability." A person, company, corporation, whatever, that enters into a certain business, operated in a certain way, must bear the risks inherent in such an operation. If PPL decides to bypass the duty of ensuring that it only employs ethical, trustworthy salespeople, then PPL must bear the inherent risk of liability stemming from such a policy. You profit from it, you are liable for it.

PPL benefits from increased volume by engaging in indiscriminate recruiting. If this tactic goes wrong, if a customer is "overpromised," PPL IS CULPABLE and MUST BEAR THE LIABILITY. And rightly so.
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#52 Consumer Comment

Contractor status has nothing to do with agency, torts have nothing to do with contracts

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

James, it's a good thing you're not offering legal advice, because you lack a basic understanding of the law.

First of all, contracts and torts are completely separate areas of the law. Contract actions are those that stem from purely economic injuries. They are rooted in agreements, or purported agreements.

Torts, on the other hand, are all other non-economic injuries. Assault, trespass, personal injuries, etc, are common examples of torts. Economic fraud is also a tort, but this is because of the fraud element, not the economic element. To say that tort reform somehow relates to contracts is completely wrong.

Your understanding of agency is also deeply flawed. The employee/contractor dichotomy is virtually irrelevant to the question of whether one is an agent. If somebody hires me to perform a task, regardless of whether I will be acting in an employment or contractor capacity, I am an agent. The bounds of my "agency" will be set by the nature of my job.

If I am a salesman, even if I am an independently contracted salesman, I am an agent of the company that hired me. And, as an agent, my acts that are within the scope of my agency are imputed to my employer.

Agency principles are NOT AT ALL dependent on how the agent and principal decide to define their relationship. They are entirely dependent on the expectancies of third parties. PPL CAN NOT absolve themselves of vicarious liability by labelling their salesforce "independent contractors." It just doesn't work that way. The inquiry is into whether third parties would reasonably think that the agent has the authority to make the representations at issue. If he can make such a reasonable assumption, the principal, if he exists, is responsible for those representations. Whether the agent is an employee or an independent contractor won't even enter into the equation.

And there is good reason for this. Legal academics call it "enterprise liability." A person, company, corporation, whatever, that enters into a certain business, operated in a certain way, must bear the risks inherent in such an operation. If PPL decides to bypass the duty of ensuring that it only employs ethical, trustworthy salespeople, then PPL must bear the inherent risk of liability stemming from such a policy. You profit from it, you are liable for it.

PPL benefits from increased volume by engaging in indiscriminate recruiting. If this tactic goes wrong, if a customer is "overpromised," PPL IS CULPABLE and MUST BEAR THE LIABILITY. And rightly so.
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#53 Consumer Comment

Tort Reform, Liability, and Agency

AUTHOR: James - (U.S.A.)

FYI - not an attorney, just a really old coot. Advice herein is not legal advice per licensing/definition, merely a common understanding and viewpoint expressed by a laymen. (and I had'to say that because of licensing requirements, folks).

Respectfully, tort law and tort reform, more commonly known as contract law, is pretty much out of control today. Without significant effort you can sign away everything but your civil rights, and even that depends on the state you are in.

A binding contract assumes (perhaps falsely) that both sides of a unilateral written agreement are in agreement on its meaning and intent when they sign.

Courts in some states recognize this is hardly ever the case, some going so far as to require the contract be read in front of witnesses and verbal consent or written consent of 'understanding' specified in the terms of the agreement.

There is even a law on the books in one (favorite) state that dissolves a contract if the court finds one side failed to comprehend any part of the written agreement, though in spite of the written law many judges refuse to enforce (a whole seperate discussion therein).

I know it seems pessimistic, but this sort of thing both protects the public from having their rights signed away wholesale under mild durress and stress (limitations of liability during injury) - as well as making the prospect of getting paid from all but the most honest large ticket customers a constant shoving match for larger businesses and small business contractors.

Also, you refer to agency in this case, citing traditional role of 'agency' prescribed to corporations in the 20th Century. The laws regarding liability and agency have radically changed in the last 15 years with the advent of massive 1099m contracting.

Contractors (such as those Associates at PPLSI) generally sign a paper taking on total legal liability for their performance of their 'task', thereby compartmentalizing the liability away from the parent corporation. We call it 'selling liability'.

You contract a 'general contractor' to perform a task - whereby you are absolved of liability under contractor requirements (set by the IRS) which specify you cannot instruct the contractor or oversee their work, set their hours, or provide them with tools which you retain ownership of.

Abuse of this law is clear in some of the 2001 telecom corporations who, at one point, employed more than 70% of their total workforce under this stipulation.

The IRS has 10 rules to determine if a contractor is in fact functioning as an 'employee' of the firm - which is what you are considering for agency liability. Many of the 2001 telco firms did not meet those goals and were unaware at leadership levels that there were term limits (12 months) or serious stipulations set up to prevent the employment of contract labor in replacement of employees.

An example of this 'compartmentalized liability' came up in Texas recently when street crews flooded a mans house while working on a water main.

The city plead no fault and indeed were immune from prosecution or damages because the labor team was a contractor operation.

When sued, these small or solo units can declare bankruptcy (usually corporate, often with LLC or class S corp defense from personal liability) and fade away - reforming under a new name or corporate identity.

The problem is actually quite rampant with little resolution. It also gives contractors a very bad name and creates an exploitive mindset in large projects, harming the safety of the workplace and product in favor of competative bidding and cost savings.

Some states do still define the actions of a contractor as that of 'agency' similar to a full employee, but most contracts specify all damages from a resulting suit will fall on the contractor responsible for the fault.

Unless you wish to assert that PPLSI is actually instructing their sales people to violate the law, you are taking out your anger on the company strictly because they represent a larger target.

Another good example of this is the SBC telephone system, who uses a contractor entity to offer Internet Service. You can -try- to sue SBC Internet Services, but you won't get a crack at the Billions in cash reserves SBC Telco has because they represent a seperate legal entity with clearly defined limitations of scope and liability.

Most customers -believe- they are dealing with one firm: SBC, but from a courtroom standpoint its a shell game.

Personally, I'm a HUGE believer in the wire fraud act, which basically states you can't decieve or defraud, nor conspire to do so, over a phone line in any business transaction. It's a felony, but you don't see anyone arresting firms who hire 3rd party tech support companies overseas to 'pretend' to be Americans (complete with fake names). There is a lot of money at stake and no one really wants to rock the boat.

At least with PPLSI I know where these guys live, work, and park. When you call for help, you get a real name. And although the attorneys they represent are not members of the firm, they tell you that up front in case any of them do wrong. I can't say the same for any national or internaltional business I've worked with. Sure, there is room for improvement - there always is.

Personally speaking, the Make My Day laws in Florida make more sense than any of the modern courtroom drama or any services associated with it. Marriage is also turning into a contract with terms, penalties, and serious liabilities that border on human slavery in some decisions. Don't get me wrong -I'm all for Marriage as an Institution- but something has gone wrong when the State has more right to my body than my wife or children. The fact that Pre-Paid can't afford to prosecute or defend that sort of thing is also a sure sign an individual person on an average salary can afford correct representation in the matter either.

Non-Disclosure is another excellent example - limiting me even now from naming names or giving testamony based on my experiences - because I had to sign those rights away in order to work. At the time, it was that or starve, but now I know a lot of what happened in 2001 could have been avoided if stipulations about that sort of activity were better protected under civil rights law and reporting. Again, economics are the guiding force and detterrant to reform.

To steal another line from present politics - if you see something being done wrong, do it better. If you won't work for those wages, don't be surprised by the sort of people who will. When they do wrong, consider, how much do they really have to lose and what influence did that condition of poverty have on their thinking process to cross the legal line in order to make the sale? Should you get your money back? Yeah... but from who?

When the Rule of Law no longer applies, yet its exception is not the result of temperance or circumstance, we no longer have a government - merely rulers. Blaming the soldiers for a surrender or defeat often ignores the real problem - how the fight came to be at all.
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#54 Consumer Comment

Tort Agreements? over-zealous contractors

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

What, pray tell, is a "tort" agreement? How does one "agree" to torts which, by their very nature, are unconsented-to acts?

I disagree with your assertion that the corporation isn't to blame for over-zealous contractors. As you seem to have, or at least think you have, some sort of understanding of law, I find it odd that you completely dismiss basic principles of agency.

The acts of corporate agents, acting within the scope of their employment, are imputed to the principal corporation. And for good reason, because the principal is in the best position to ensure that the agent is not making exaggerated claims.

PPL has set up a sales and distribution scheme that lends itself to exaggerated claims. Indiscriminate hiring, and an engrained philosophy more focused on earnings than customer service, make exaggerated product and opportunity claims a virtual certainty.
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#55 Consumer Suggestion

Certification will be the death of us all

AUTHOR: James - (U.S.A.)

Despite claims that PrePaid members are uncertified, many states now require certification to sell PPLSI coverage. This has little to no effect on dulling overzealous sales associates NOR does it support the foundation of contract and tort law which state both parties must be in agreement with a common definition of the WRITTEN word, not a verbal or emotional upsell of interpretation and best wishes.

We are reaching a point where contract law is almost useless and tort law non-binding thanks to this 'common understanding' clause in the courts. Application of 'legal ignorance' as a defense against strict or unfair tort agreements has reached a point that contractual service for non-tangible products is almost unenforcible in many states.

Without shipping and recieving dates a customer can claim almost any defense from non-delivery, verbal promises of satisfaction, and even verbal substitution in spite of written terms. Parallels in the military recruiting offices of the US demonstrate the powerful and ill effects of verbal sales versus contract terms and conditions of deliverables.

Certifying these people will do little to limit the emotional selling power of Associates to exagerate and play on people's naivete. Worse, it will help to lock out Associates who may have better legal backgrounds from practicing freely and providing services over multiple State jurisdictions.

If the US Army cannot limit the impact of misrepresentation, emotional recruiting techniques, and gross over-promises - how can a conventional corporation hope to reduce its contractors misrepresentation of their product.

What needs to be done is a serious focus on two fronts: plantiff civil rights before the court and reliance on written over verbal terms de facto in all tort agreements.

Allowing plantiffs to be stripped of civil rights to privacy, financial access, and personal authorization by tort is all to common in contracts - bordering on debtors prison even. Allowing business to be based on a 'handshake and a word' is equally unsatisfactory - especially with the ease and convenience of paper printing and digital media.

Trying to solve the problem by 'regulation' of 'appointed / tested' personnel is as likely to result in quality improvements as the 30-day training track for MCSE, MCSD, A+, Network+, and similar IT degrees. Practitioners with 10+ years of experience are now out of work because employers have been convinced that certification means qualification and experience guarentees in excess of that career practicum.

The ability to obtain certification is a financial barrier, not a technical one, much like 'buying' a commission in the Royal Navy was centuries ago. Such a system does little to actually improve the ethics, satisfaction, and talent-for-support which open-ended competition provides. You might as well ask for a union or guild, because in the end that is what Certification gives consumers.

Like many professional businesses, the once highly esteemed degree of PhD is even for sale now. Academic qualifications and institutional start-up programs make the requirements for obtaining and defending the legitimacy of such an education a commercial commodity.

I have my own criticisms of the limitations and customer service issues with PPLSI, but they do not warrant further division of the service through Federal Regulation. Such a move would only hurt consumers and worsen civil rights in this country, a cause which is so apparent in that the demend for the PPLSI service is undeniable by volume.

State government might find better use for their funds by making tort law a vital ciricullum at the High School level. If you think I'm joking, I'm not.

As for those who found the policy did not cover their expectations, I must ask if they indeed did find those expectations in their reading of the contract? If so, they have a different case. If the associate, as a contractor and in defiance of PPLSI official policies, did misrepresent the product then there are also civil and criminal statutes which may apply. Blaming PPLSI corporate is a misplaced and ineffective way of dealing with the actual offending sales person - who may have committed a wrong against both the customer and the company they claim to serve.
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#56 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I guess some people can't recover from brainwashing

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

To all the sheep in this report-I think Al of Lumber Ridge, NC, said it best.
"Pre-Paid Legal is nothing near a benefit. It is actually a double dipping referral service, where consumers pay to be a memeber, and attorneys paid to have referrals. It may have a little merit in its ability to provide consumers a way to get a will or other minor legal matters taken care of at a fair price, as well provide some generic legal information, it is in no shape or form an actual benefit as it is marketed. It does not cover any type of tort ligitation, criminal representation, any domestic cases, it is of little benefit for traffic cases. In no way can it guarantee that it actually provides any discounts.

Since Pre-Paid Legal is sold by independent contractors that require no type of registration or certification, that in itself makes it very suspect. Sure some people make money with it. Sure the corporate tradmark owners are listed on the Stock Exchange. But in the end it is a big hole to throw hard-earned money in.

You will have a better return on your money by investing the monthly fee in a CD saver account and use that money to retain an attorney if you need one. There are enough legit resourses on the internet to provide lay people with some general info, and setup good questions to ask any prospective attorney.

Because of the nature of marketing PPL, their lack of direct supervision of their indepentent agents, and overall ignorance of the legal system, they have been the target of many complaints to the Bar Association (at least in NC). At some point and time, the grey area where they operate will be erased, and only certified legal professionals will be able to market this product, or hopefully, it will wither and dry up. Attorneys have it hard enough without PPL tarnishing their already tainted reputation."
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#57 Consumer Comment

NYSE listing has no bearing on the issue of "scams"

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

I just have a quick comment regarding Stephanie's final comment (it would be pretty hard for an NYSE listed company to run a scam).

THIS IS NOT CORRECT!

It WOULD be difficult for a publicly traded company to conduct ILLEGAL activity for an extended period of time. This is NOT because of an inherent parameter (such as increased public scrutiny) of being a publicly traded company, as most people think. Rather, illegality will not flourish either because a government agency is enforcing LAWS or the corporation's shareholders recognize that LEGAL violations threaten the financial well-being of the corporation. Not all scams are illegal, however. And, so long as the law is observed and the company is profitable, neither government agencies nor a corporation's shareholders are going to address the economic injuries inflicted on the consumers.

Most MLMs operate within the bounds of the law, or at least within the bounds of enforced laws. As PPL sells a service (as opposed to a consumable product) they are, most likely, operating within the bounds of the law (. And, with the above analysis in mind, this means that PPL should have no problems (per the consumer and agent relationships) either with the government or its shareholders. And, then, PPL should have no problem conducting its current operations while being listed on the NYSE.

But, as I said before, the fact that PPL operates within the bounds of the law does not mean that it isn't a scam, which begs the question: how do we define a scam?

Many people equate "scam" with illegality. That, however, is too narrow a definition. In the business and commerce realm, the law can only reach certain flawed transactions, such as a breached contract or a misrepresentation to shareholders. It generally does not reach those transactions wherein two parties agree to a certain scenario and both sides follow up on their end of the bargain, regardless of how much the agreement may favor one party at the expense of the other (with the exception of usury laws).

These "one-sided" transactions are what I would use to define a scam; a "scam" is a transaction that greatly benefits one party (be it a large corporation, a landlord, a shifty home repar contractor, etc.) at the great expense of the other side (either a consumer, an employee, or someone signing on for a "business opportunity"). A scam may take the form of theft by false pretenses, such as where you pay for a product that you never receive. Or it may take the form of a contract wherein one side pays a great deal of money, or invests a great deal of time and energy, into something that is nowhere near worth the money or time put into it.

Does PPL fit this definition? As far as the PPL product is concerned, I don't think they do. I have yet to see an account from a complainant that I felt had much merit. As far as the "opportunity" is concerned, the little judge in my head is still out, but I've been researching SEC filings and they don't paint a pretty picture. I would not recommend signing on for this opportunity.

As a final note, while on the subject of the stock market, I have a little novice advice(don't take this risky advice as quality investment analysis!) per PPL stock. This stock has, historically, been quite volatile, ranging from lows under 10$ to highs over 40$, and back down, and back up again. I'm waiting for it to get back below 20$ and, if I have the funds at that time, I'm going to buy in. Even at 40$, PPL stock is probably grossly undervalued. I'm going to take advantage of the volatility. If you like taking risks (gambling, in other words) you may want to look into PPL stock.

Have a good day!
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#58 UPDATE Employee

Thanks Stephanie what would you have done if you did NOT have Prepaid Legal

AUTHOR: Roland - (U.S.A.)

You just proved how valuable the Prepaid Legal Service is. You've already had to use it 3 times. 2 times you were not happy with what you heard, but 1 time it actually saved you money.

I agree with the poster above me, what would you have done if you did NOT have Prepaid Legal Services? Who would you have gone to with your problems then? Most likely, you would have had the same resolution, but it would have cost you a lot more money out of pocket than what you pay in monthly prepaid legal membership fees.

Thanks for proving that Prepaid Legal works, even if YOU don't agree with the opinions of the Lawyers.

I don't know why people assume that when they meet a lawyer that lawyer is going to do everything in their power to win a case for you, even if there is no legal basis. Contrary to what is shown on Television, not all lawyers are workers comp and car accident scam artists who will do anyting to make a buck.
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#59 UPDATE Employee

The other side of the PPL coin

AUTHOR: Fritz - (U.S.A.)

Let me say first that I have a PPL membership and I am an Independent Associate. I agree with Tim's assesment of Stepanie's situation and would like to make another observation.

If Stephanie had retained an attorney to handle these three cases she may have spent hundreds of dollars on retainer fees she would not have gotten back and she may have gotten the same results she got from her PPL law firm. But in the case of the credit card charges (which she got back) I doubt she would have paid a lawyer $200 an hour to get back $120.

I have used my membership many times in the year or so that I have had it. I have not gotten the results I wanted on every occasion, but that's life.

PPL is a MLM business and I do understand Tim's comments because dirt makes news. But just because it is a MLM company does not make it a SCAM. It would be hard to have an illegal legal service while you are working with the Attorney General of every state and it would be hard for a NYSE company to run a SCAM.
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#60 Consumer Comment

My take on PPL

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

I understand your dissatisfaction, Stephanie. Here's my take on PPL.

First off, it's an MLM (almost a pyramid scheme), and as such is presumptively a scam in my book. However, the plan on paper is a pretty good deal. That's not to say that the plan in action is a good deal.

The benefit of PPL is the counselling it affords. The ability to receive legal advice before entering into a major contract, as well as general advice and advocacy, is a great benefit. If you use the service when you should, and if the participating attorneys do their jobs like they should, PPL can save you an awful lot of time, stress, and money in the long run. For actual litigation PPL isn't of much help. There is a discount, but it isn't very substantial.

On to your specific issues. Most non-JAG lawyers don't know anything about military law. It's a completely separate system from what they are used to. You were reasonable in expecting your PPL provider to be able to assist you with this issue, but asking a non-military lawyer to take a military case is like asking an American lawyer to defend you in China. Granted, your provider could have at least done some research to see if he would have been capable of assisting you. One of the fundamental principles of legal ethics, however, is that you never take a case if you don't understand the specific area of law.

As for the video-email issue, your provider actually came through for you, and got your $120 back. That right there paid for four months of the service.

John Beck, what a piece of work. Fortunately for guys like him, the law doesn't compensate people for their bad decisions. If John Beck gave you what he said he would, even if that turned out to be completely worthless, he has kept up his end of the bargain and the law requires you to do the same (pay the $8500). Writing a letter is, most likely, the only thing this firm could do for you. It is in nobody's best interest to pursue a lawsuit that can't be won. Hopefully you have stopped watching infomercials.
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