• Report: #187667

Complaint Review: Primerica Financial Services

  • Submitted: Thu, April 20, 2006
  • Updated: Mon, September 11, 2006

  • Reported By:Cincinnati Ohio
Primerica Financial Services
9050 Centre Pointe Drive Cincinnati, Ohio U.S.A.

Primerica Financial Services Sleazy, underhanded salesmanship, a waste of time Cincinnati Ohio
*UPDATE: Primerica recognized by Rip-off Report a business opportunity well worth considering - it's not for everyone but many representatives make solid commission incomes. Primerica takes appropriate action against representatives conducting themselves improperly, pledges 100% commitment to customer service.

*Consumer Comment: Sheryl in Mesa

*Consumer Comment: Thinking about Primerica makes me queasy

*Consumer Comment: two pieces of advice.

*Consumer Comment: two pieces of advice.

*Consumer Comment: two pieces of advice.

*Consumer Comment: two pieces of advice.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Responding to Sheryl (Mesa)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Responding to Sheryl (Mesa)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Responding to Sheryl (Mesa)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Responding to Sheryl (Mesa)

*UPDATE Employee: Primerica Experience from a Primerica Associate

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerica's new whipping boy (Tom) comes back for more.

*Consumer Comment: I had my 'interview' / sales presentation today

*Consumer Comment: I had my 'interview' / sales presentation today

*Consumer Comment: I had my 'interview' / sales presentation today

*Consumer Comment: I had my 'interview' / sales presentation today

*Consumer Comment: Edwin in Missagua

*Consumer Comment: Tom

*Consumer Comment: Tom

*Consumer Comment: Tom

*Consumer Comment: nevada rates, etc.....

*UPDATE Employee: here are the quotes again if they post it

*UPDATE Employee: Hey Edwin, there is no misunderstanding if you are interested in helping people.

*Consumer Comment: In response to Tom's post

*UPDATE Employee: Stuart and Leroy are the liars

*UPDATE Employee: Here are some quotes

*Consumer Comment: Adding my 2 cents worth to a post

*Consumer Comment: more inaccuracies from primerica rep

*Consumer Comment: response to Tom

*UPDATE Employee: When you borrow your cash values????

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerican whipping boy Tom embarassing Crimerica further

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerican whipping boy Tom embarassing Crimerica further

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerican whipping boy Tom embarassing Crimerica further

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerican whipping boy Tom embarassing Crimerica further

*UPDATE Employee: Why whole life and VUL? More $$$$$ for the company and agent

*Consumer Comment: Tom In Vegas...fountain of misinformation

*Consumer Comment: Tom In Vegas...fountain of misinformation

*Consumer Comment: Tom In Vegas...fountain of misinformation

*Consumer Comment: Tom In Vegas...fountain of misinformation

*Consumer Comment: Analyzing gary's/ primerica's fairy tales

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rebutting - Crimerica's New Whipping Boy

*UPDATE Employee: Be careful of cash value insurance and other bad financial products

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, dribbles on

*UPDATE Employee: Jen - And Leroy & Stuart

*Consumer Comment: deleted responses

*Consumer Comment: Gary repeats some old lies, makes up some new ones

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rebutting Crimerica's whipping boy (Gary - who else?) once again.

*Consumer Comment: Primerica Outlawed In Kansas

*Consumer Comment: All I can tell you about Primerica is...

*UPDATE Employee: Stuart & Leroy....

*UPDATE Employee: In favor of Primerica

*Consumer Comment: more primerica silliness

*Consumer Comment: Gary stumbles again

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, is back

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, is back

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, is back

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, is back

*UPDATE Employee: Right Back at Stuart Again....

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Adding to Maryjo (Columbus)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Adding to Maryjo (Columbus)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Adding to Maryjo (Columbus)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Adding to Maryjo (Columbus)

*UPDATE Employee: Stuart - Leroy & Jay

*Consumer Comment: Thanx, Gary

*Consumer Comment: Primerica gives Free advice? hardlty!

*Consumer Comment: speaking of expensive insurance

*Consumer Comment: Gary...how many times repeat same lies..sheesh

*Consumer Comment: Gary...how many times repeat same lies..sheesh

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I'm happy that Crimerican Gary keeps coming back.

*Consumer Suggestion: captain crimerica puppeteer strikes again

*UPDATE Employee: to Stuey in NJ

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: For the wooden-headed puppet

*Consumer Suggestion: gary the braindead crimerica a**clown blathers on

*UPDATE Employee: Post Script for the Bopsey Twins....

*UPDATE Employee: Post Script for the Bopsey Twins....

*UPDATE Employee: Post Script for the Bopsey Twins....

*UPDATE Employee: Post Script for the Bopsey Twins....

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To recruitment victims of Crimerica

*Consumer Comment: Victims of primerica?

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rebutting Crimerican Gary's fairy tale - made up dribble

*UPDATE Employee: The Two Bopsey Twins

*Consumer Comment: Gary goes off the deep end

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rebutting Crimerican Gary (Wichita)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Off Course

*UPDATE Employee: Stuart in NJ

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rebutting Lamar (Lithonia) ..this company will only be referred to as Crimerica in my reports

*Consumer Comment: Hey Lamar...

*Consumer Comment: Lamar in Lithonia

*UPDATE Employee: Note to Jason

*Consumer Comment: p.s- to Brian

*Consumer Comment: Brian...some answers I hope

*Consumer Comment: Brian...some answers I hope

*Consumer Comment: Brian...some answers I hope

*Consumer Comment: hmmmm, interesting Leroy

*Consumer Comment: response to Brian

*Consumer Comment: question to leroy

*Consumer Comment: question to leroy

*Consumer Comment: question to leroy

*Consumer Comment: question to leroy

*Consumer Comment: Nathan repeating urban legends

*Consumer Suggestion: Cash Value is a RIPOFF

*Consumer Comment: Michael in Texas

*Consumer Comment: Michael in Texas

*Consumer Comment: Michael in Texas

*Consumer Comment: Michael in Texas

*Consumer Suggestion: Michael of Pasadena Show Us The Proof

*UPDATE Employee: Open your closed mind

*Consumer Comment: gary incorrectly says primerica is a division of citigroup

*Consumer Comment: Thanxs,Gary

*Consumer Comment: Leroy in CA

*Consumer Comment: Leroy in CA

*Consumer Comment: Leroy in CA

*Consumer Comment: Brian in St Pointe.

*UPDATE Employee: Hi Dallas, the internet is not regulated or controlled. It has grown so fast no government agency could keep up with that kind of growth

*Consumer Comment: In response to Gary

*UPDATE Employee: To Dallas in OK

*UPDATE Employee: To Dallas in OK

*UPDATE Employee: To Dallas in OK

*Consumer Comment: Leroy, California

*Consumer Comment: I think that Primerica is similar to a Cult.

*Consumer Comment: Brian in Wisconsin

*Consumer Comment: Gary in Wichita

*UPDATE Employee: Rebuttal to Leroy in Tulare, CA

*Consumer Comment: It's all based on Point of View

*Consumer Comment: Yo gary

*UPDATE Employee: YO Leroy!

*Consumer Comment: From what I can gather this is not an isolated incident...

*Consumer Comment: gary...make up your mind

*Consumer Suggestion: gary the crimerica puppet zombie blathers on...

*UPDATE Employee: Primerica.....Just like any other company

*Consumer Comment: Pyramid Scheme*

*UPDATE Employee: from Newbie Gary

*UPDATE Employee: HI Leroy & Jay in Rhode Island

*Consumer Comment: comparing Primerica to McDonald's.

*Consumer Comment: joanne and gary brainwashed crimerica zombies

*UPDATE Employee: Hi Stephen in Illinois and Joanne

*Consumer Comment: Hello!

*Consumer Comment: Gary, you are indeed shallow

*UPDATE Employee: Hi Jason...

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This is probably one of the sleaziest pyramid schemes I've ever encountered. while most pyramid schemes become transparent in .5 seconds (an overly-friendly stranger handing you his/her card and promising unbelivable and vague opportunities), Primerica uses more deceptive techniques to waste your time.

Two days after posting my resume on Yahoo Hotjobs, I received a call from Rob Sanker, saying that he worked for Citigroup, and would like to schedule an interview for a Human Resources/Training position. This sent off a few red flags, why would a legitimate company like Citigroup call a person randomly for a job interview. I mentioned that I was a student at UC, but he seemed unconcerned that I'm not yet a college graduate. I asked how hw received my information, and he gave me some BS about either a personal recommendation or receiving my resume. After scheduling my interview, he asked me to bring a resume. Whatever.

I decided to ignore my keener instincts, and partially out of curiosity, decided to make good on my interview. I put on a suit, and wasted a quarter tank of gas driving to his office. When I walked into the building, I saw absolutely no sign of citigroup, just the doors to a company called Primerica. An overly eager Rob Sanker was waiting to greet and usher me into his office. In other Primerica complaints I've read on this site, the interviews were conducted in a group setting. I guess this looked to pyramid schemey, so they changed the interview into a one on one setting to look more legit.

The interview was a long-winded sales pitch about Primerica's legitimacy, and the first ten minutes had nothing to do with my qualifications for the job. He showed me a laminated booklet full of praise for Primerica, which turned out to be "the marketing arm of Citigroup", although they were a life insurance/debt consolidation company.

Rob Sanker seemed to possess very limited knowledge of financial planning, and salesmanship techniques. He made maintained an intense degree of eye contact and simply parroted the information in his Primerica book, repeating my first name a thousand times until I was past being angry and just felt sorry for him. He explained that Primerica was looking for trainable (low-income) people without a backing in financial planning. Hmmm, why would Primerica look for poor, uneducated people as potential "financial advisors"? Could it be because these kinds of people are more willing to believe whatever glitzy 100K-a-year earning potential Primerica dangles in front of them?

I guess Primerica got wise to all of the complaints filed against them and won't give the name of their company over the phone, instead calling themselves Citigroup. This doesn't seem entirely legal, as I did an internet search on Citigroup instead of Primerica before going to the interview. This company is a more aggressive, deceitful version of the pyramid scheme. I had to put on a suit and drive thirty minutes to go to a commercial posing as a job interview. It was pretty annoying and humiliating, but nothing compared to the people who have lost careers and cash to this sleazy company.

Jason
Cincinnati, Ohio
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/20/2006 10:10 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Primerica-Financial-Services/Cincinnati-Ohio-45238/Primerica-Financial-Services-Sleazy-underhanded-salesmanship-a-waste-of-time-Cincinnati-187667. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Sheryl in Mesa

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

First off.....you have an analytical mind. No wonder you can't find any benefit to you in a not-so-SMART loan.

You are correct....only a lunatic would roll a 2.25% loan with special tax advantages into a 12% loan. Only a lunatic would roll a 6% home loan in to a 12% home loan. Only a lunatic or a commission crazy slimeball would offer those options to someone as a viable alternative.

What is unfortunate is when they put in that loan application without your permission it made your FICO score drop a hair which means you might have to pay higher interest to another lender. They materially damamged you.

Assuming you are non-smokers, in Arizona the lowest possible rate you will find for $400,000 20 year guaranteed term insurance from a company rated 'A' or higher is $408 per year. That is $400,000 on both of you. That is $34 a month, not $80 a month like you are paying with primerica. That rate is for the PREFERRED PLUS category. Preferred rates would by $45 a month. Standard rates (which is what it sounds like primerica gave you instead of preferred) would be $59 a month.
(p.s- adding your child will be about $2-3 a month. You need to find a company that offers Child term Rider...not all do. I cannot give you the names of any of the companies I quoted above because the editors here won't allow it.)

Again, when you get those credit card offers that say "2.99% ON BALANCE TRANSFER UNTIL PAID" open one up and do it. You'll get rid of that credit card debt at 2.99% a lot faster than at 12%.
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#2 Consumer Comment

Thinking about Primerica makes me queasy

AUTHOR: Sheryl - (U.S.A.)

LEROY,

Thanks for your comments.

I am under 35, in fact, I am 26, hubby is 28. We do have their term insurance. In fact, we have 400K on each of us and are paying 80.00/monthly.

I am looking into cheaper term with another company, and do plan to switch, as both of us are extremely healthy without medical issues.

The one thing I just cannot seem to get over today (in my mind) is their SMART loan. The PFS Agent who was at my house immediately got into the SMART loan speel after trying to recruit me back into the business (now that I have been out, and dropped my license five years ago). What I didnt understand, and still am wondering about, is that he did not offer to do any FNA again. If their FNA is the "cure all" debt solution, why he would not even attempt to do one again BEFORE trying to sell me more insurance and a SMART loan is beyond my understanding.

My husband and I make (together) close to 75,000 a year. We do not have a lot of consumer debt, primarily a mortgage (1,800 monthly), 50K of student loans (me with a M.A., him with a B.S.) and 5K in credit card debt. We have no car payments, as all three vehicles (newer than 2000) have all been paid off through our hard work and diligence.

The rep went into this long drawn out detail about how we needed the SMART loan to consolidate everything, so our payment would be 700/month instead of over 2K. I never quite understood how it would have gone down THAT much, unless we were extending our loan term to over 40 years. (Which would be crazy anyways).

I pay bi-monthly on my mortgage right now, which builds equity faster than paying monthly. Our student loans are all consolidated together, and we have a low rate of 2.25. We are currently working on an accelerated payment to our credit card to eliminate that mid-next year. Not bad (in my opinion). We do not have a great deal of money left to wiggle, but we manage fairly well, neither of us are big spenders, especially now with a baby on the way.

So (not thinking too much) we signed the SMART loan paperwork. I assumed that I would just "see" what it offered...and then decide what was best. The SMART loan came back 2 days later, and the rep told me that we had too much debt outside the home loan (270K) to consolidate it all together. So he suggested a "second mortgage". Yikes, not again I thought - I had not wanted to do a second mortgage, especially right now in Phoenix with the market being as bad as it has been in the last few years.

He said the second mortgage would have us paying 750/month to consolidate all our loans outside of the house pymt. Ok...but, currently we dont spend half of that. My loans are in repayment, but not my husbands, since he decided to go back to more school for the next two years. The rep told me "well either way you'll have to pay his loans sooner or later, and why not now?!"

When I got on the phone with the loan dept. (whoever and wherever they were), they told me that the loan would be 12%, and there would be a prepayment penalty for the next 3 years. YIKES?! What?? A company that WANTS you to get out of debt is instilling a "prepayment" penalty? Get out of here. That is crazy. Washington Mutual doesn't even do that, and neither does USAA (who I had before for my 2nd mortgage).

So now I'm sitting here, husband does not take an active interest in bills and debt solutions. I get an uneasy feeling - why would I want to consolidate everything to 12% - when I currently pay 2.25 on my student loans? Arent student loans a tax savings as well (interest anyways)? Granted, I know that the 5K of credit card debt is going to eat me alive on interest (currently 12%) - I am accelerating that right now with an extra 300 a month. So......after that is paid, then I'm left with a really low student loan payment, with low interest, that I can toss that extra 300 dollars to, and probably eliminate that fairly quickly.

Why the SMART loan?

I am not jumping into something that someone "thinks" is right for me, knowing that this loan will give someone a commission check in another week or two. Not going to happen. I just dont understand how a company that is there to "help" the consumer financially is actually helping them climb back in further.

And the funny thing is, I can't seem to find any information on the SMART loan anywhere! Not online, no reviews, (except for this site). If it was so "awesome" why isnt everyone doing it?
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#3 Consumer Comment

two pieces of advice.

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Sheryl in Mesa Sheryl.........two pieces of advice. #1. REPLACE the grossly overpriced primerica term My guess is you are under 35 years old. You can get $250,000 of 20 year term insurance for less than $15 a month with a multitude of high quality carriers . Adding a child term rider will be another $2-3 a month and will cover all your kids including anymore that may come along. #2. DON'T EVEN CONSIDER the not-so-SMART LOAN. Here is the basic primerica spiel about it. The truth will be under each spiel talking point. Primerica attempts to convince you to take a loan that is 1.5-1.75% higher than you could normally qualify for. They use smoke and mirrors to keep you from focusing on the higher interest rate. <<<
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#4 Consumer Comment

two pieces of advice.

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Sheryl in Mesa Sheryl.........two pieces of advice. #1. REPLACE the grossly overpriced primerica term My guess is you are under 35 years old. You can get $250,000 of 20 year term insurance for less than $15 a month with a multitude of high quality carriers . Adding a child term rider will be another $2-3 a month and will cover all your kids including anymore that may come along. #2. DON'T EVEN CONSIDER the not-so-SMART LOAN. Here is the basic primerica spiel about it. The truth will be under each spiel talking point. Primerica attempts to convince you to take a loan that is 1.5-1.75% higher than you could normally qualify for. They use smoke and mirrors to keep you from focusing on the higher interest rate. <<<
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#5 Consumer Comment

two pieces of advice.

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Sheryl in Mesa Sheryl.........two pieces of advice. #1. REPLACE the grossly overpriced primerica term My guess is you are under 35 years old. You can get $250,000 of 20 year term insurance for less than $15 a month with a multitude of high quality carriers . Adding a child term rider will be another $2-3 a month and will cover all your kids including anymore that may come along. #2. DON'T EVEN CONSIDER the not-so-SMART LOAN. Here is the basic primerica spiel about it. The truth will be under each spiel talking point. Primerica attempts to convince you to take a loan that is 1.5-1.75% higher than you could normally qualify for. They use smoke and mirrors to keep you from focusing on the higher interest rate. <<<
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#6 Consumer Comment

two pieces of advice.

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Sheryl in Mesa Sheryl.........two pieces of advice. #1. REPLACE the grossly overpriced primerica term My guess is you are under 35 years old. You can get $250,000 of 20 year term insurance for less than $15 a month with a multitude of high quality carriers . Adding a child term rider will be another $2-3 a month and will cover all your kids including anymore that may come along. #2. DON'T EVEN CONSIDER the not-so-SMART LOAN. Here is the basic primerica spiel about it. The truth will be under each spiel talking point. Primerica attempts to convince you to take a loan that is 1.5-1.75% higher than you could normally qualify for. They use smoke and mirrors to keep you from focusing on the higher interest rate. <<<
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#7 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Responding to Sheryl (Mesa)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

I'm happy that you didn't get in too deep.

Crimerica is built upon the desperate and greedy.
For many Crimericans they worship Crimerica as if it were a god that can do no wrong. Shillers, in their arrogance, often come by this website accusing those who've seen the light and left Crimerica as being lazy when, in truth, it's those Crimericans who don't look past their nose who are the lazy ones.

It goes without saying that Crimerica weaves a web of deception and outright lies. Their attempts at ducking responsibility by saying that the problem lies with individual Crimericans instead of the company itself shows how irresponsible Crimerica is (bare minimum: a responsible company would investigate all of these allegations on Ripoff Report instead of attempting shilling through their underlings).

As the job market improves with real jobs to offer will help cut out Crimerica. Once Crimerica either reforms or goes down for good, we can all rejoice.
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#8 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Responding to Sheryl (Mesa)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

I'm happy that you didn't get in too deep.

Crimerica is built upon the desperate and greedy.
For many Crimericans they worship Crimerica as if it were a god that can do no wrong. Shillers, in their arrogance, often come by this website accusing those who've seen the light and left Crimerica as being lazy when, in truth, it's those Crimericans who don't look past their nose who are the lazy ones.

It goes without saying that Crimerica weaves a web of deception and outright lies. Their attempts at ducking responsibility by saying that the problem lies with individual Crimericans instead of the company itself shows how irresponsible Crimerica is (bare minimum: a responsible company would investigate all of these allegations on Ripoff Report instead of attempting shilling through their underlings).

As the job market improves with real jobs to offer will help cut out Crimerica. Once Crimerica either reforms or goes down for good, we can all rejoice.
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#9 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Responding to Sheryl (Mesa)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

I'm happy that you didn't get in too deep.

Crimerica is built upon the desperate and greedy.
For many Crimericans they worship Crimerica as if it were a god that can do no wrong. Shillers, in their arrogance, often come by this website accusing those who've seen the light and left Crimerica as being lazy when, in truth, it's those Crimericans who don't look past their nose who are the lazy ones.

It goes without saying that Crimerica weaves a web of deception and outright lies. Their attempts at ducking responsibility by saying that the problem lies with individual Crimericans instead of the company itself shows how irresponsible Crimerica is (bare minimum: a responsible company would investigate all of these allegations on Ripoff Report instead of attempting shilling through their underlings).

As the job market improves with real jobs to offer will help cut out Crimerica. Once Crimerica either reforms or goes down for good, we can all rejoice.
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#10 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Responding to Sheryl (Mesa)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

I'm happy that you didn't get in too deep.

Crimerica is built upon the desperate and greedy.
For many Crimericans they worship Crimerica as if it were a god that can do no wrong. Shillers, in their arrogance, often come by this website accusing those who've seen the light and left Crimerica as being lazy when, in truth, it's those Crimericans who don't look past their nose who are the lazy ones.

It goes without saying that Crimerica weaves a web of deception and outright lies. Their attempts at ducking responsibility by saying that the problem lies with individual Crimericans instead of the company itself shows how irresponsible Crimerica is (bare minimum: a responsible company would investigate all of these allegations on Ripoff Report instead of attempting shilling through their underlings).

As the job market improves with real jobs to offer will help cut out Crimerica. Once Crimerica either reforms or goes down for good, we can all rejoice.
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#11 UPDATE Employee

Primerica Experience from a Primerica Associate

AUTHOR: Sheryl - (U.S.A.)

I was with Primerica a few years ago - 99-2001.....I didnt really know what to think when I first got involved. My husband (at that time) had gotten out of the Army and "found" Primerica, and wanted to do the business to make that million dollar income that they claim you can do.

For two years, I attended meetings, seminars, conferences, etc. My husband ordered massive amounts of leaflets, flyers, etc., he spent a fortune on motivational books, tapes and the like. He didnt have a full time job, he claimed he was going to 'make thousands' with the company. I didnt disagree with the things they taught....what used to get to me was that they focused more on recruiting, and to me it seemed like another Amway, or Mary Kay. I always wondered how many people had gotten suckered into believing that they could realistically make thousands. I know that in any business, money is not immediate and it takes hard work. But the folks at the so called "TOP" in this company were a little shady to me. I never quite knew where they lived, or worked, or saw their families. Many times they'd tell their "sob" stories of how they used to make minimum wage...they used to be a construction worker with no education, etc.

What amazed me is that most of the folks in training where undereducated, and falling for the pitch that the Primerica associates gave. I never saw anyone with a worthwhile education in any of our meetings. Maybe because they wouldnt be dumb enough to fall for that pitch.

When I divorced from my husband after 2 years, he was still in the same place with the company as when he started. Making nothing - we were strapped on funds, and he would not get a real job (Primerica leads you to believe that it's not a good thing to have a 'real' job). I could not take one minute of that business anymore.

Now, five yrs. later, I was contacted by one of my associates at work about getting involved. I mentioned that I used to be, but had NO inclination whatsoever to go back in the business. I told him that I had the insurance, and investments, and that since I had a newborn baby on the way, I needed to add her to the policy.

A few days later, the RVP and the associate came to my house. Basically, they ignored the reason I had wanted them to come for (adding the baby), and instead started immediately on their recruiting pitch. I told them I was not interested. I cannot tell you how horrible it was/is to tell people you are with Primerica - people do not respond positively to that. I was EMBARRASED to say I was with them..as most of the folks I know had very bad experiences with them. They are so focused on the recruiting pitch than anything else. My current husband (after they left) said to me "Isnt it just like a pyramid?"

It is very similar. In a pyramid, one person can be at the top, whereas in Primerica, everyone can make it to the top, but at the same time, the money I make directly benefits my upline. The RVP who came here told me "you dont need to attend anything, you can just refer people silently". Sounded fine...as long as he knew that I was not about to go attending these stupid meetings every week. I did not have time - and my husband did not either now that he is going to night school.

Less than a day later, the local Primerica Office calls - she told me to be at training that next day! When I told her I had to work she got defensive, and asked me "well what are your work hours?? You can't just not go tomorrow?" NO! I can't!! My job is my FULL TIME JOB and main source of income! I have to go!

Then today, she called me again! She wanted to tel me that next week is the PFSU life class, and the orientation in Scottsdale. WHAT?? I'm not attending things! I'm not going get involved in that same b.s. that I did all those years back. Not going to do it.

So they also tried to pitch me the SMART loan....funny thing is, I have NO information on it. I like to read up on the products I may be interested in getting involved in. If Citigroup is so big, WHY can I not find any information on the SMART loan? Why did the RVP not leave me any paperwork on what it is, how it gets you out of debt faster, etc.?? Consumers want to know what they're getting involved in. Why try to hide it?

At this point, I dont know what to think. I 'm a little fed up...
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#12 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerica's new whipping boy (Tom) comes back for more.

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Poor poor Tom from Las Vegas. I don't envy you as your task is impossible: to defend Crimerica. You think by slipping in lies and half-truths, that makes the problem go away, but it only makes it worse Tom and your desperation becomes more evident.

For example your calling me and Leroy liars won't save you and Crimerica. A case in point:

"They are telling people that ___________ term life insurance is more expensive, but where's the proof." I gave the proof dozens of times in my prior reports, you moron. You can pretend that you don't know, but I'll be happy to repeat it for you anyways.

First understand that the following isn't directly from me, not Leroy nor any other posters to this website knucklehead. You only have to look to your fat catmasters for the answer. That's right Tom, your company already gives the answer over by their metamorphosis website:

http://ww3.primerica.com/public/who/articles/
metamorphosis3.html

What does it say on Page 3? "PFS charges more than many of its competitors in the term market...." "If you can't be the cheapest term insurance in town -- because we have a lot of people to pay because of the hierarchical structure -- then you'd better provide value to people or they're not going to pay what you charge," That's right, Crimerica charges more than many of its competitors in the term market. Why are they charging more? "One reason PFS charges more than direct sellers is to support its multilevel structure. Up to six levels of agents may be paid on a single sale by a PFS representative." But the
lion's share goes to the fat cats. So Tom are you
calling your fat catmasters liars? (to be fair, of
course, Crimerica alludes to giving better service, but it doesn't specify what that better
service is).

Tom I can hear you stuttering going "but, but, but..." If that website is wrong I'd recommend you go to those fat cats and slap them in their faces
and tell them "What are you doing to me you fools?
You're destroying my credibility and making a fool
of me on Ripoff Report! If you keep this up I'm going to have to quit being your whipping boy and go back to being a used car salesman."

To help you along, burn this into your brain bottom feeder:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#13 Consumer Comment

I had my 'interview' / sales presentation today

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

I had a victim/entrepeneur of theirs who "had my resume in front of them" when they called for an interview a couple of weeks ago. I had heard some of the horror stories about people who had been contacted by these people that went on these 'job interviews/sales presentations.' I decided to check it out just to see if what I'd hear was correct. I was amazed that any company that wanted to present itself as ethical would contact people desparate for jobs and waste their time with a 'business opportunity' under the guise of a job interview. Well, I went in armed with what my friends had told me and what I had read on this board, and sure enough that is the way they work.

The person I spoke with went on this sales pitch, telling me I had just the background that would do well in this business (never mind that I have no insurance or financial advisement liscensing), and this was a chance to really get paid what I was worth.. ..blah, blah, blah. Based on what I had heard and read, I started asking questions (such as-I hear there is a start-up fee, that the company pulls you into more fees later on, etc.). She became irate and said . ..well, SOME people just have no ambition, and therefore don't make it in this business-I made over $100,000 last year. I ask her if she can produce tax records or anything to substantuate this. She then proceeded to tell me that was none of my business. . ..blah, blah blah. Fortunately, I'm already in a decent job and am just looking for something a little better-so I was able to tell what she could do with her 'opportunity' and leave. It's amazing this company can get away with targeting people at what often is one of the most difficult points of their life (unemployment) and take advantage of them in this manner.
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#14 Consumer Comment

I had my 'interview' / sales presentation today

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

I had a victim/entrepeneur of theirs who "had my resume in front of them" when they called for an interview a couple of weeks ago. I had heard some of the horror stories about people who had been contacted by these people that went on these 'job interviews/sales presentations.' I decided to check it out just to see if what I'd hear was correct. I was amazed that any company that wanted to present itself as ethical would contact people desparate for jobs and waste their time with a 'business opportunity' under the guise of a job interview. Well, I went in armed with what my friends had told me and what I had read on this board, and sure enough that is the way they work.

The person I spoke with went on this sales pitch, telling me I had just the background that would do well in this business (never mind that I have no insurance or financial advisement liscensing), and this was a chance to really get paid what I was worth.. ..blah, blah, blah. Based on what I had heard and read, I started asking questions (such as-I hear there is a start-up fee, that the company pulls you into more fees later on, etc.). She became irate and said . ..well, SOME people just have no ambition, and therefore don't make it in this business-I made over $100,000 last year. I ask her if she can produce tax records or anything to substantuate this. She then proceeded to tell me that was none of my business. . ..blah, blah blah. Fortunately, I'm already in a decent job and am just looking for something a little better-so I was able to tell what she could do with her 'opportunity' and leave. It's amazing this company can get away with targeting people at what often is one of the most difficult points of their life (unemployment) and take advantage of them in this manner.
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#15 Consumer Comment

I had my 'interview' / sales presentation today

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

I had a victim/entrepeneur of theirs who "had my resume in front of them" when they called for an interview a couple of weeks ago. I had heard some of the horror stories about people who had been contacted by these people that went on these 'job interviews/sales presentations.' I decided to check it out just to see if what I'd hear was correct. I was amazed that any company that wanted to present itself as ethical would contact people desparate for jobs and waste their time with a 'business opportunity' under the guise of a job interview. Well, I went in armed with what my friends had told me and what I had read on this board, and sure enough that is the way they work.

The person I spoke with went on this sales pitch, telling me I had just the background that would do well in this business (never mind that I have no insurance or financial advisement liscensing), and this was a chance to really get paid what I was worth.. ..blah, blah, blah. Based on what I had heard and read, I started asking questions (such as-I hear there is a start-up fee, that the company pulls you into more fees later on, etc.). She became irate and said . ..well, SOME people just have no ambition, and therefore don't make it in this business-I made over $100,000 last year. I ask her if she can produce tax records or anything to substantuate this. She then proceeded to tell me that was none of my business. . ..blah, blah blah. Fortunately, I'm already in a decent job and am just looking for something a little better-so I was able to tell what she could do with her 'opportunity' and leave. It's amazing this company can get away with targeting people at what often is one of the most difficult points of their life (unemployment) and take advantage of them in this manner.
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#16 Consumer Comment

I had my 'interview' / sales presentation today

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

I had a victim/entrepeneur of theirs who "had my resume in front of them" when they called for an interview a couple of weeks ago. I had heard some of the horror stories about people who had been contacted by these people that went on these 'job interviews/sales presentations.' I decided to check it out just to see if what I'd hear was correct. I was amazed that any company that wanted to present itself as ethical would contact people desparate for jobs and waste their time with a 'business opportunity' under the guise of a job interview. Well, I went in armed with what my friends had told me and what I had read on this board, and sure enough that is the way they work.

The person I spoke with went on this sales pitch, telling me I had just the background that would do well in this business (never mind that I have no insurance or financial advisement liscensing), and this was a chance to really get paid what I was worth.. ..blah, blah, blah. Based on what I had heard and read, I started asking questions (such as-I hear there is a start-up fee, that the company pulls you into more fees later on, etc.). She became irate and said . ..well, SOME people just have no ambition, and therefore don't make it in this business-I made over $100,000 last year. I ask her if she can produce tax records or anything to substantuate this. She then proceeded to tell me that was none of my business. . ..blah, blah blah. Fortunately, I'm already in a decent job and am just looking for something a little better-so I was able to tell what she could do with her 'opportunity' and leave. It's amazing this company can get away with targeting people at what often is one of the most difficult points of their life (unemployment) and take advantage of them in this manner.
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#17 Consumer Comment

Edwin in Missagua

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Thanks for the compliments.

I don't spend much time on this board. Most days its about 15 minutes. Some days if there isn't anything worth responding to its zero. Even when the answer is lengthy since I've heard the same pat primerica spiel so many times I have pat responses so it takes me no time to answer. Every so often someone from primerica says something brand new that is really dumb. Then it takes a bit longer.

I think I frustrate primericans like Gary and Tom for several reasons. One is I don't disagree that term insurance is the best for most people most of the time, especially when they are young. Using your BMW versus Chevy analogy you may realize a BMW is a better performing and longer lasting car than a Chevy, but if you can't afford to have the BMW that meets your current needs you're better off getting a Chevy you can afford that does meet them.

Another reason is I only rarely offer cash value insurance as a savings vehicle. Overfunded Variable life is a good fit for some people because of its tax advantages. Universal life can be a good fit for a small businessman who is in a business with very high years and very bad years, like contractors. They can stuff money into the universal life, let it grow and then take it out when needed without creating a taxation problem.

9 times out of 10 I sell term, and 9 times out of 10 when I sell cash value it is a low premium universal life with a no-lapse guarantee and very low cash values because they are irrelevant to the reason for the insurance.

People like Gary and Tom repeat to them without question what has been told to them by their superiors at primerica and what they have been told hasn't changed over time to reflect the new realities. For example, "cash value salesmen push whole life because the commissions are larger". 30 years ago that was true. You got 55% commission to sell whole life and 30% for term. Today its 80-105% for either cash value insurance or term with the exception of whole life sold by companies domiciled in New York. Then its still 55%.

People like gary and Tom don't look in to the rhetoric they are given by primerica marketing. Being licensed with almost 100 companies I can tell you each and every one says "we're #1 in something". They all exxagerate their products strengths. Its my job to find out which company fits each individual's situation the best and not just repeat some drivel a marketing executive thought up.

People like Tom and Gary don't even question what they hear from primerica marketing. A classic is how the other companies charge $500-10,000 to run their financial analysis. Just call New York Life, Pru, Met, Principal, or John hancock and say "I'd like to have someone come over and do a needs analysis for me but I don't want to pay for it". You'll find your phone ringing off the hook from people offering to do it free.

I swear I could write a book about the whole primerica thing. I was around at their inception and I have watched them evolve. In the beginning they said the stock market was evil and was no place for the average middle class person to be in......then they started selling mutual funds.

In the beginning annuities were evil and just another way for insurance companies to rip off consumers, then they merged with Travelers and all of a sudden annuities became okay.

Then they partnered with Met Life to sell Met's variable annuities so now all of a sudden after years of primerica rhetoric calling variable annuities a ripoff that no sane person would want (ask Suze Orman) variable annuities became okay.

Long Term care was another product attacked by primerica. "Anyone who follows our plan will not need to buy a long term care policy because they will be rich enough to self insure". Primerica entered into a marketing agreement to offer G.E. capital long term care and that piece of rhetoric disappeared into history.

Same with thirty year term insurance. The exact same rhetoric used about long term care was used to rail against 30 year term but that too passed into history when they started offering it (reason being most mortgages are 30 years).

Don't even get me stated about that horrid not-so-SMART loan. Anyone that gets fooled into buying that deserves the $300-400 a month beating in extra interest they pay.

My 15 minutes are up.
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#18 Consumer Comment

Tom

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Tom,

In the last post that you've addressed to me, you said "The thing is I don't have a problem with these products (cash value insurance)". But yet in one of your earlier post dated 7/16/2006 6:28:00 PM, you referred cash value as "Trash Value". If you don't have a problem with cash value, why do you call them Trash Value and give people a bad impression about this product?

Hope you don't contradict yourself as often when you're talking to your clients.

You said "The majority of us are good people with high ethical and moral standards doing what is right for families". How can you make this claim when you don't know every Primericans all over the world? From reading your post, I believe you when you say don't want to hurt your clients, but how can you say that most others are like you when you don't know them? I must also say I'm in really good terms with my friend who works in Primerica (eventhough I no longer buy anything from her), but I won't go around and say most Primericans are bad or good because I don't know most of them.

PS. Leroy, thanks for showing the insurance quotes in Neveda. That answered my previous questions and this also answered Tom's question as to how can you are helping people when you're spending so much time on this site. Consumers are indeed greatly helped when they see your quotes and know that they can get cheaper products else where.

And Tom, I understand that you did your research for a getting Primerica Term for a 30 year old man; but was your research thorough enough to cover the quotes that Leroy has shown on ripoffreport.com?
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#19 Consumer Comment

Tom

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Tom,

In the last post that you've addressed to me, you said "The thing is I don't have a problem with these products (cash value insurance)". But yet in one of your earlier post dated 7/16/2006 6:28:00 PM, you referred cash value as "Trash Value". If you don't have a problem with cash value, why do you call them Trash Value and give people a bad impression about this product?

Hope you don't contradict yourself as often when you're talking to your clients.

You said "The majority of us are good people with high ethical and moral standards doing what is right for families". How can you make this claim when you don't know every Primericans all over the world? From reading your post, I believe you when you say don't want to hurt your clients, but how can you say that most others are like you when you don't know them? I must also say I'm in really good terms with my friend who works in Primerica (eventhough I no longer buy anything from her), but I won't go around and say most Primericans are bad or good because I don't know most of them.

PS. Leroy, thanks for showing the insurance quotes in Neveda. That answered my previous questions and this also answered Tom's question as to how can you are helping people when you're spending so much time on this site. Consumers are indeed greatly helped when they see your quotes and know that they can get cheaper products else where.

And Tom, I understand that you did your research for a getting Primerica Term for a 30 year old man; but was your research thorough enough to cover the quotes that Leroy has shown on ripoffreport.com?
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#20 Consumer Comment

Tom

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Tom,

In the last post that you've addressed to me, you said "The thing is I don't have a problem with these products (cash value insurance)". But yet in one of your earlier post dated 7/16/2006 6:28:00 PM, you referred cash value as "Trash Value". If you don't have a problem with cash value, why do you call them Trash Value and give people a bad impression about this product?

Hope you don't contradict yourself as often when you're talking to your clients.

You said "The majority of us are good people with high ethical and moral standards doing what is right for families". How can you make this claim when you don't know every Primericans all over the world? From reading your post, I believe you when you say don't want to hurt your clients, but how can you say that most others are like you when you don't know them? I must also say I'm in really good terms with my friend who works in Primerica (eventhough I no longer buy anything from her), but I won't go around and say most Primericans are bad or good because I don't know most of them.

PS. Leroy, thanks for showing the insurance quotes in Neveda. That answered my previous questions and this also answered Tom's question as to how can you are helping people when you're spending so much time on this site. Consumers are indeed greatly helped when they see your quotes and know that they can get cheaper products else where.

And Tom, I understand that you did your research for a getting Primerica Term for a 30 year old man; but was your research thorough enough to cover the quotes that Leroy has shown on ripoffreport.com?
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#21 Consumer Comment

nevada rates, etc.....

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

For anyone who wants to see for themselves how primerica term compares its easy enough to do. Go to any term quoting website. I'll give you the primerica rates. (The editors here will not allow me to give you the names and rates of other companies.)

I am quoting 20 year term for four reasons;
a.) its by far the most common length of term sold with over 60% of all term policies sold being 20 years in length
b.) last I heard primerica's 30 year term did not have rates guaranteed to not go up for the full 30 years. This may have changed. If one 30 year term policy fully guarantees its rates and another doesn't the comparison is not valid.
c.) originally primerica said 30 year term is just another insurance industry ripoff and no one in their right mind would buy it......then they started to sell it. I took them at their original word.
d.) primerica will not write 30 year term on a person more than 45 years old. Many other companies will go to age 55. A few all the way up til age 60.

20 year term $400,000
Nevada rates
34 year old preferred female primerica = $395
44 year old preferred female primerica = $695

On my term quoting software of the 32 companies rated A+ or better 29 were lower than primerica and 3 were higher.

34 year old preferred male primerica = $395
44 year old preferred male primerica = $695

Primerica fares better with males. 21 were lower than primerica and 11 higher.

Besides looking at pure rates there are underwriting issues to consider when shopping for term. For example, primerica has no separate rate for preferred smokers. Many other companies do. So for the 30 year old male Tom proclaimed that primerica had the lowest rates for 30 year term that doesn't hold true if the comparison is for smokers in excellent health. Then primerica is back in the pack. If they are preferred non-smokers primerica ranks 7th.
By the way, in the insurance industry in general about 2/3rds of non-smokers qualify for preferred rates.

When you compare primerica's female rates for 30 year term, they just don't compete. They charge the same rates they do for males. No one else does that.

<<<<<<<<<
Life Insurance as a retirement investment.
.......Like Tom I disagree with the use of life insurance as a retirement investment when it is used as the principal means of retirement OR if the cash value product used is an old time non-dividend paying whole life. HOWEVER, a good dividend paying policy from a mutual life insurance company will bring a return to the investor on his gross premium close to what he would have made in municipal bonds. Every investor should have a portion of his retirement in a conservative guaranteed investment vehicle. The younger you are the smaller that portion should be.
<<<<<<<<

Since Tom has no idea what the rest of the industry pays for commissions on their products and only goes by the 30 year old canned sales pitch A.L. Williams put together I'll give you a real life example.

I had a 52 year old client in here today. He has just refinanced his house for 30 years. He has a $300,000 mortgage. He wants the mortgage paid if he dies and wants his wife to have some money left over on top of it. He said he'd be comfortable with around $100 a month premium.
I showed him that will buy $125,000 of guaranteed no-lapse universal life to age 100. Premium is $1228 a year ($101 a month).
My commission would be $1045.60.
$400,000 of 20 year term would be $1,119 per year ($93 a month) .
My commission would be $1007.10.
The term meets his goals, the universal life doesn't.
Where exactly is my evil incentive to push him into the universal life sale? Tom would have you believe I'd put all my effort into convincing him to take the universal life because I'd make so much more in commission when the difference is only $38.

Tom simply doesn't know what the hell he is talking about regarding agent commissions in the rest of the industry.

Tom is quoting a canned sales pitch primerica founder A.L. Williams came up with thirty years ago. They haven't modified the pitch to reflect modern reality because the pitch is designed to inflame emotions against other insurance companies and the truth just isn't all that inflammatory.
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#22 UPDATE Employee

here are the quotes again if they post it

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

Hi Stuart and Leroy,

Here is the life insurance comparisons I received. A standard $500,000 policy on a non-tobacco 30 year old for a 30 year term. I used the same numbers for all the companies here. Primerica was the lowest compared to these companies and these were the lowest rates offered to me. Here's the proof Primerica is extremely competitive and is far less expensive than its competitors' term products. Hopefully, this website will allow this response to be posted as it is.

Company Product Premium
Guaranteed
Financial Strength
A.M. Best Updated as of: 7/1/2006
Customer Placement
Rating


Primerica Life
30 yrs.
A+
Ratings
(5) $80 Mo.
$850 Yr.
Payment Options

West Coast Life Focus 30 (2006)
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(3) $83 Mo.
$945 Yr.
Payment Options

Pruco Life Insurance Co.Term Essential 30
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(4) $91 Mo.
$1,015 Yr.
Payment Options

American General Life Insurance Co.LTG Ultra 30 (2006)
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A++
Ratings
(5) $91 Mo.
$1,035 Yr.
Payment Options

ING ReliaStar Life TermSmart 30 2006
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(3) $97 Mo.
$1,050 Yr.
Payment Options

Genworth Life Insurance Co. Sure Term 30
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(5) $100 Mo.
$1,145 Yr.
Payment Options

The Lincoln National Life Insurance Co. GTO-30 Series 13
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(4) $100 Mo.
$1,155 Yr.
Payment Options

Transamerica Occidental Life Trendsetter Super 30
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(3) $105 Mo.
$1,195 Yr.
Payment Options

Return of Premium - get up to 100% of your premium refunded ? More information

American General Life Insurance Co. ROP Term 30 (2006)
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A++
Ratings
(5) $126 Mo.
$1,510 Yr.
Payment Options

Here is Primerica's quote again for a 30 year old non-tobacco 30 year term.

Primerica Life
30 yrs.
A+
Ratings
(5) $80 Mo.
$850 Yr.
Payment Options

These are the lowest quotes I was quoted. So, there you have it and don't respond back with it's proven Primerica is the most expensive. It's not proven to anyone that Primerica is the most expensive when these are the quotes. Come up with new material because your material is boring and old. You tell people in every message "myth #" whatever and give the same messages without giving real examples or you repeat what someone said with no response or say "no" they are wrong with no explanation. That's fine. After looking at other areas of these Primerica complaint sites, I have seen you two over and over and you must spend countless hours writing responses. Is this your job to do this? I really don't see how you help anyone in the real world when you are on these negative sites all the time. My wife told me to stop reading and writing on this site. She's right, it's bad to get sucked into these sites. I think we all need to get back to work helping people like we say we do. We are wasting tons of time when we could be doing productive things. All this negativity on this board is making me become a negative person and I don't like that or want that. See you guys. Get off before it overcomes you. It's like the dark side consuming you with hate.
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#23 UPDATE Employee

Hey Edwin, there is no misunderstanding if you are interested in helping people.

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

When I say I do what is right for the consumer it means if they are single with no family or anyone depending on them I don't sell them life insurance. I was sold a whole life insurance policy 10 years ago (single with no one depending on my income) as an investment from my union. I told them I needed to save money for college and for retirement and this guy's answer was the same for all my needs, whole life insurance (he called it my investment and never mentioned it was life insurance).


When I called for my balance (their 1-800 number)on my savings account I was told I didn't have a balance because it's not an investment, it's whole life insurance. I told her that my advisor told me I would earn 8 to 9 % per year and I could take out my money anytime I needed it and I needed some of it now to pay for my college classes. She told me that this was not true, there was no money to take out and didn't I know this was life insurance? I told her to stop taking money from my account immediately and for 4 months they still automatically drafted my account for supposedly my investment. I wrote many letters and called numerous times and they refused to stop taking payments until I threatened them with the Better Business Bureau, the state licensing division, news stations, everything I could think of. They finally stopped and they refunded me all the money I had put into this cash value policy. They recently contacted me to get my investments going again (investments, huh??). You know what I told them?

The thing is I don't have a problem with these products, but I have a problem with the way they are sold sometimes (false promises -future cash value) and that they are something they didn't even ask for (an investment when they wanted insurance). If an agent says these are my products and gives the client all the information of their products (term and cash value policies) and the option to choose from the one that best meets their needs. This is great because the agent did the right thing. However, almost every client I sit down with were never given that option to choose. They said they didn't know there was more than the option their agent chose for them.

I then ask the client for their insurance policy to review it with them. I ask them if they have ever read their policy and they usually say no. At this point I have not made one bad comment about their insurance company. I then go through their policy with them and point out the things they had not read for themselves. I show them in their policy that if they don't pay a higher premium to their policy in the year 2015 their policy will end (this is one of my clients). They tell me, "my life insurance agent said my payment would never go up and I could keep it for the rest of my life because it's permanent life insurance." I then tell them to look at a different area of their policy and point out to- them, "you said this is your investment but on this page of your policy it says you have to borrow your money if you need it at this interest rate and they don't have to give you this loan for up to 6 months. This page here says your cash buildup-investment (overpayment for a basic term policy) is the insurance companies money, not yours. This is in the policy.

Also, I show them how much money they are guaranteed (2 different columns of numbers in their policy) even though the agent showed them they would get the projected side (isn't that illegal to say stuff like that-sales illustrations). The client then says, "so, how am I supposed to pay for my children's education or retire when I have to borrow my own money and there isn't the money promised by my agent.

My point here is I have not said one bad thing about their company. I have shown this client what is in their policy and they make up their own mind from what their company's policy says. I don't have to say anything bad because the clients are the ones with the negative comments for their agent and their company. They then call up their agent and ask why they were sold this (just like I did to my agent 10 years ago) and the answer is always "I thought this was the best product for you." Then the agent says I can give you what you want now and the client, if they are smart, knows the agents does not have their best interest at heart, but his or her own interest and they say no them. This is what I have a problem with, doing what was right for the client in the first place.

When a client has insurance that is right for their situation I say "good job" (I don't replace every term or cash value policy if it's right for them). I focus on the areas they need assistance on. I'll help them with investments and budgeting or getting out of debt if that is the area they want to focus on. If a family says they want the security of knowing that they are protected if something unfortunate happens and they need insurance for only 20 years. I give them what they ask for. I know most agents are honest and do what is right for people (I hope) and for the agents that do wrong, I am focused on making what you do wrong right. And if Stuart and Leroy are reading this, I'm glad to know, from what you say, you do what is right for people.

In Primerica, I have come across a few agents (representatives) that I would never allow into my home or to help me with my finances (these people exist in every business). These people don't usually last with us because their negativity or doing the wrong thing either makes them quit or they are terminated from our company. The majority of us are good people with high ethical and moral standards doing what is right for families. We are just normal people doing extraordinary things for families and that is what is most important.
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#24 Consumer Comment

In response to Tom's post

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Tom,

When did I say life insurance is many times sold to families as an investment when the family wanted pure life insurance and wanted the best price? You said you don't make up things to get back at people and that you don't go around spreading lies about people; but it seems like you are inventing stories of what I've said.

If you have misinterpretated what I've said earlier, or if you have confused what somebody else have said to be me, then it's understandable. It's just an innocent mistake which can be easily forgiven.

I'll continue the remainder of the post under the assumpition that it's only an innocent mistake that you've made.

If 2 quality products are different and each has its advantages/disadvantages, why is it difficult to understand that under some cirumstances, one can be better than the other? The Corolla vs BMW analogy is an extreme one, but it still illustrates that for 2 different cars, it's reasonble to expect one to be more expensive than the other.

BTW, a Mercedes (changing the car brand here, but I'm still sticking to the car analogy) is more expensive than a Corolla, but it does not necessarily mean its quality is better. It might means whoever owns a Mercedes has better things to show off his/her financial status. Since this is not a car discussion thread that talks about which cars have better engines and don't break down as often, let's not continue with this anology after the point has been made. And the point is, 2 different products can have 2 different price.

I agree with you when you say "I'm sure [companies that sell both term and vash value] don't say our term policy is like a Corolla and our cash value policy is like a BMW or vice versa.". But they will say our term and cash policies are different products.

Other points that you've made about selling cash values to families: you asked "how is this helping a family that only wants pure life insurance and are just scraping by and are sold a more expensive product they don't even need."

My response: for this family, term insurance is likely the right product (but also depends. Eg. If the breadwiner of the family requires a huge sum of money for his funeral arrangment, the non-increasing Premium of an UL might be useful). But not all your clients are families that only want pure life insurance and are just scarping by. You might run into families who are more suitable to receive cash value insurance.

It annoyed me a lot when my Primerica friend's upline came to my home, having no idea of what my financial situation is, and started unprofessionally claim that my well trusted financial advisor is ripping me off because he advised me to buy UL. If he patiently explained to me why I'm a better candidate for term, I would have taken his advise more seriously; but for him to start unprofessionally condemning my financial advisor when he doesn't have thorough understanding of my financial background, I lost a lot of trust on Primerica and on him.

If a Primerica rep just goes around telling other people that their cash value should be replaced when they don't carefully analyze whether that is the correct thing to do, that is can harm the clients. Which mean anyone who claims Primerica always do what is right for families is a lying (and he may not be aware of it because in his heart, he thought he's doing the right thing).

BTW, I don't know about you, but if a financial adivsor tells me that he ALWAYS do what is right , I would get the impression is this must be a pretty arrogant advisor to have made such a bold claim. I wouldn't give too much trust to this advisor. I just want to share with you this thought before the next time you post on the Internet claiming that you do what is right for the family that you help all the time.

And back to your analogy of the family that wants life insurance and is scrapping by: if term insurance is the best choice for them, it's still the best if the family can get the term insurance for the lowest possible premium. I understand your research indicated your price to be competitive while others, including Primerica's own website disagree (I've learnt from reading ripoffreport.com that your Term's rating have been downgraded. This must also mean something, right?) Since I don't have access to insurance rate, I can't say who is right and who is wrong, but is it reasonable to assume one of the following is true (without accusing anyone of being a liar)?

1. You did indeed do research with some companies to compare your prices, but your research has missed some companies with even lower prices

2. You did indeed do a thorough research and you indeed find that your insurance rates are competitive. As for why Leroy and others disagree with you? Can it be possible that In the State of Neveda, Primerica's term is pretty competitive, while in other states, Primerica's term are more expensive (Leroy and others can correct me on this if they can access to State of Nevada's insurance premium price)

One last thing before I go. It's about one of the thing that you've said:
"If I can't make their situation better I don't do anything, unlike many companies out there that just want to make a buck and will sell them no matter if they need it or not."

I respect you that you don't do anything when you can't do anything to make your client's situation better. In that sense, you have a good moral ethics. But is it necessary for you to defend yourself and your company by condemning others? There are also good insurance agents out in the world. You have a moral ethics, but so do many others.

I think you can give a much more professional imagine if you help families and promote your company without resorting to bashing your competitors. As you know, creating a more professional image can certainly help your business.
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#25 UPDATE Employee

Stuart and Leroy are the liars

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

Check out my post comparing Primerica's term policy with other companys' term policies then you will see that Stuart and Leroy are the fountains of misinformation. They are telling people that Primerica's term life insurance is more expensive, but where's the proof. I received quotes from these places and they were all higher than Primerica. The lowest quote I received was $3 higher a month for the same 30 year term for a 30 year old. Stuart and Leroy continuously lie on this website saying we are one of the most expensive term out there. I hope this site allows my post because then it will prove that in fact we are one of the least expensive term policies out there. People do your own research and it will prove me right, I did.

Edwin, I don't go around complaining or spreading lies about people or companies. I don't make up things to get back at people because they spread lies about my company. I simply tell the truth and I wouldn't want to harm Leroy or Stuart's business. I always tell the truth to my clients that I am Primerica and I always do what is right for the families I help. If I can't make their situation better I don't do anything, unlike many companies out there that just want to make a buck and will sell them no matter if they need it or not.

Another thing you said about life insurance is many times it is sold to families as an investment when the family wanted pure life insurance and wanted the best price. What they are sold is a higher priced cash value policy because the agent never gave them the choice of term or cash value. They receive less coverage for more money. So, how is this helping a family that only wants pure life insurance and are just scraping by and are sold a more expensive product they don't even need. If term is right for families 95% of the time then why is it sold to 95% of the families out there. This is why I compare these two products, yes they are different, because the agent sold it to them as pure insurance. Even though Stuart and Leroy say the agent receives the same commission either way, why are these higher priced products sold as pure insurance. It makes no sense. And you compared term policies with cash value policies as a BMW to a Toyota Corolla. I thought you said they are two different products which means they are both quality products, not one is better than the other. Most insurance companies sell both term and cash value policies and I'm sure they don't say our term policy is like a Corolla and our cash value policy is like a BMW or vice versa.
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#26 UPDATE Employee

Here are some quotes

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

Hi Stuart and Leroy,

Here is your life insurance comparisons. A standard $500,000 policy on a non-tobacco 30 year old for a 30 year term. I used the same numbers for all the companies here. Primerica was the lowest compared to these companies and these were the lowest rates offered to me. Here's the proof Primerica is extremely competitive and is far less expensive than its competitors' term products. Hopefully, this website will allow this response to be posted as it is.

Company Product Premium
Guaranteed
Financial Strength
A.M. Best Updated as of: 7/1/2006
Customer Placement
Rating


Primerica Life
30 yrs.
A+
Ratings
(5) $80 Mo.
$850 Yr.
Payment Options

West Coast Life Focus 30 (2006)
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(3) $83 Mo.
$945 Yr.
Payment Options

Pruco Life Insurance Co.Term Essential 30
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(4) $91 Mo.
$1,015 Yr.
Payment Options

American General Life Insurance Co.LTG Ultra 30 (2006)
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A++
Ratings
(5) $91 Mo.
$1,035 Yr.
Payment Options

ING ReliaStar Life TermSmart 30 2006
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(3) $97 Mo.
$1,050 Yr.
Payment Options

Genworth Life Insurance Co. Sure Term 30
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(5) $100 Mo.
$1,145 Yr.
Payment Options

The Lincoln National Life Insurance Co. GTO-30 Series 13
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(4) $100 Mo.
$1,155 Yr.
Payment Options

Transamerica Occidental Life Trendsetter Super 30
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A+
Ratings
(3) $105 Mo.
$1,195 Yr.
Payment Options

Return of Premium - get up to 100% of your premium refunded ? More information

American General Life Insurance Co. ROP Term 30 (2006)
Company & Product Details
30 yrs. A++
Ratings
(5) $126 Mo.
$1,510 Yr.
Payment Options

Here is Primerica's quote again for a 30 year old non-tobacco 30 year term.

Primerica Life
30 yrs.
A+
Ratings
(5) $80 Mo.
$850 Yr.
Payment Options

The facts are the facts and the facts don't lie.
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#27 Consumer Comment

Adding my 2 cents worth to a post

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Tom,

Do you what it mean when Stuart called you a shiller? If you know what a shiller is, you would know it makes no sense for you to call him or others who are complaining against your company shiller. It would help a lot if you first know what a term means before you use it to address others.

Leroy has shown in his last reply that he indeed can get insurance for his clients at a much cheaper price else where (don't know whether the editor of ripoff report will allow him to post the names of those companies). A question for you Tom. If you really want to do what is best for a family and you see that the family needs term insurance coverage, what will you do when you see that they can buy insurance for a much cheaper price else where? Will you still recommand them the Primerica term insurance? Or will you direct them to buy the insurance else where so that they can save more money (and use that money for investing maybe)? You can still make your own money by selling mutual funds or other products that is not as expensive.

When I read through your posts, I get the impression that you want to defend Primerica; you like working there; and you want to help other families. That's noble on your part. But when you make false claims on behalf of Primerica, you're doing harm to both your clients and to your company's reputation. Just as Stuart has pointed out, Primerica's own wesbite indicates its term insurance is over priced. How can you still go around the Internet and insist that your insurance has competitive rate? Before you claim that Primerica's term insurance isn't overpriced, have you done any reasearch yourself to justify this claim? Do you know how much are your competitor are selling their insurance? If you are making false claims saying that your insurance rate are competitive when in fact they are not, do you know how much faith will clients lose in you and with Primerica when they find out the truth? They also would have lost a lot of money.

A lot of times, you'll learn a from others. You don't believe a lot of things that Leroy says, but he's very analytical, knowledgable, experienced, and smart. Just because what he says is different from what your RVP tells you, don't dismiss the fact that it can be he who is right.

One thing you said to Stuart is "You talk about how we are over priced, but compared to your cash value product that is extremely over priced, we are a bargain."

The way I see it, cash value insurance and term insurance are completely 2 different products. Each has its advantage and disadvantage. Why would anyone - especially if he's supposed to be a trained insurance expert like you have claim - only compare the premiums of these 2 products and conclude one is a ripoff? Just as it's quite silly to say a BMW Dealership is ripping me off because I can get a Corolla from a Toyota Dealership for a much lower price.

But if I can buy a Corolla from Dealership A at a much cheaper price than the same model at Dealership B, then I can say Dealership B is ripping me off. That's why when you make comparions, you compare your term's price with other comopany's term price - providing they have the same coverage. It doesn't make too much sense to compare your term's price with other company's UL price and say one is a ripoff.

As a client myself, I hope to have an advisor who can carefully explain to me all the advantages and disadvantages of various type of insurance before recommanding which one fits my financial situation the best. Even if an agent means good, I can't trust him if he's only trained to recommand one product and codemn another without fully understanding the advantages and disadvantages of each of the product that is being offered in the market.

Another thing that people will feel concerned is when they see you writing things like "Let me ask you something and I'm sure you don't have the guts to tell us. What company do you work for so I can start a board of negativity against your company? "

If you are going to file a complaint against another company just because Stuart works there and not because you truly have a complaint against that company (if you have one, you would have filed that complaint regardless whether Stuart works there or not), this complaint wouldn't be genuine. You are only starting a board of complaints just because your want to make personal attack against another person. This behaviour is quite childish and unprofessional. Why would you want show the public this is the way how reps from Primerica behave?
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#28 Consumer Comment

more inaccuracies from primerica rep

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Tom says primerica term isn't the cheapest nor is it the most expensive
<<<< Its more often closer to most expensive than to the cheapest. For example on a healthy 40 year old women smoker, $500,000 of term, primerica is $1,245 more than the least expensive policy available but only $135 less than the most expensive policy available to her. Primerica is consistently in the highest half of rates for men and the highest 10% of policies on women.

Tom says primerica term always beats the rates on cash value insurance.
<<<< No it doesn't. On the same 40 year old healthy female she can buy $500,000 of a cash value policy for $500 a year less than primerica will sell 20 year to her for. Why any female would buy primerica insurance is beyond me.

Tom repeats the ancient "higher commission" myth.
<<<< I don't care what it was like in the stone ages when A.L. Williams invented his canned sales pitch that primerica still uses today, but in today's world there is no difference between the commission rates on whole life and term. Once a client determines how much a month he can afford to pay for insurance there is absolutely no difference to the agent in commission whether he buys whole life or term. NONE!!!!! Get some new material. Get some relevant knowledge about the 21st Century marketplace.

Tom claims other insurance companies want to sell lower death benefit amounts so they won't have to pay claims
<<<
Tom makes yet another FACTUAL ERROR!!! He says that when a client surrenders a policy with a cash value loan on it the client has to pay back the loan + interest to the insurance company.
<<<< This is an astounding lack of general insurance knowledge from someone who claims to have been in the business for three years. Its also quite typical of primerica newbie agents who are sent out to replace cash value insurances when they don't know how they are structured or how they work.

NO!!!! When the client surrenders a policy with a loan out on it he doesn't have to pay back the insurance carrier.

Tom asks what company I work for.
<<<< I work for me......I don't work for any insurance company. I own my own agency. I, unlike a primerica rep, can sell it to whomever I want. I can quote rates from over 600 companies.

I am licensed with almost 100 companies. The editors won't allow me to name the companies I write insurance for because it violates their policy on that matter. I will tell you I only write insurance with companies that have an A.M. Best rating of A, A+ or A++. I write for many many companies that are far larger than primerica.

Tom, like gary before him, makes excuses about why primerica rates are higher than other companies
<<<< The real reason is that primerica has a bloated commission schedule to support the commission pyramid. These 2 guys will never admit that.

However, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY THEIR RATES ARE SO HIGH!!!!!!!! Who cares what excuses or reasons they have? The fact is they are high. If a consumer needs a 20 pound box of Tide Detergent and 1 store in town sells it for $13.99 while the primerica store sells it for $19.99, you as the consumer are going to buy the Tide Detergent for $13.99. You don't really give a rat's behind why one sells it for $6 a box less.

Primerica does this gigantic song and dance about "Buy Term Invest the Difference". Okay, do that. Fine with me. But the more difference you have to invest the more money you retire with. I recently replaced primerica term on a couple in their early 40s. I saved this couple $400 a year in premium. That means they have $400 a year more to invest. That means when the 20 year term runs out they will have $8,000 more PLUS the interest earned in their pockets. That doesn't even include the LOST OPPORTUNITY COST of what that $400 a year would compound to when invested.

If you, the consumer, believes "buy term and invest the difference" is what works best for your situation, then search out LOW COST TERM!!!!!

That excludes primerica, State Farm, Allstate and Farmers.
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#29 Consumer Comment

response to Tom

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Tom says primerica term isn't the cheapest, but not most expensive
<<
Tom says their focus is to sell term
<<< If its your focus why is the term so expensive? Why not be among the lowest 10 in premium instead of the highest 25%? Why charge women the same as men.

Tom says primerica ALWAYS beats cash value prices.
<<
Toms says you have to wait years and years before you have cash value in your policy
<<<< Tom is apparently unaware you can structure cash value policies differently so you can have have large cash amounts available in as little as one year. You can also structure policies to never have an appreciable cash value. It depends on whether you want to shelter money from taxes or you want a permanent death benefit with the lowest possible premium.

Tom says I'm to be commended for saying the obvious.......saying general insurance knowledge which I have found many, many half-trained primerica newbies agents to be unaware of.
<<<< Which is whole life is nothing more than a decreasing term policy with an investment overlay.

Tom repeats the higher commission myth
<<<
Tom says other companies besides primerica sell cash value policies because they have lower death benefits so they don't have to pay out as much.
<<<
Tom says he didn't mean to say you had to pay tax on an unpaid cash value loan in the same year...he said he meant to say you had to pay interest.
<<< Tom got caught with his foot in his mouth, stating a factual error on the net for all to see, and then trying to backslide.

Tom says interest rates on cash value loans are 8%. He once again totally avoids the concept of NET interest because in all liklihood he doesn't understand it.
<<<< First of all, 8% is NOT what all companies charge. I can demonstrate this and NET interest rates all at the same time. One of my farmer clients just took out a $40,000 cash value loan to buy a piece of equipment. The interest on his loan is 4.67%. His cash value will continue to earn 4.63%. That means his NET interest rate is .04%. That means on his $40,000 loan he will be paying $16 a year more in interest than his money will earn. Many companies guarantee that this spread will be ZERO.

Tom says if you take a cash value loan it is subtracted from the death benefit when you die
<<<< YES!!!!! This is why its possible to take more money out of your cash values than you paid in premium and never have it taxed. The loan is considered paid back by the lowered death benefit.
Getting a lower amount at death is of course no different than taking money out of a mutual fund. When you take $10,000 out of your mutual fund and then die no one throws back in the $10,000 you took out for your beneficiaries.

Toms says the subaccounts in variable life and variable annuities are not the clients money
<<<< These monies are held in SEPARATE ACCOUNTS. Its why they are called SEPARATE accounts. They are not part of the general assets of the insurance company. What this means to the client is if the insurance company goes belly up you do not lose a penny of your money in the sub-accounts as a result of the failure.

Tom fails to mention, because he probably doesn't know, is that you can take pure WITHDRAWALS from your subaccounts. These are NOT cash value loans and incur no interest.

Tom once again says something completely UNFACTUAL.
<<
Tom makes an empty threat.
<<<< Tom, trust me, you never want to sit across a table from me. I'd make mincemeat of all your silly arguments, partly because so many of them are based on 30 year old market conditions which have changed dramatically since your canned sales pitch you read from was created....and partly because of the perception I get from you of lacking of common knowledge in the insurance industry. Also, I can rip that primerica not-so-SMART loan apart in about 2 minutes.
The last time I had one of those agent confrontations you guys love so much I ended up selling the client's son term insurance....and it was the son who was the primerica rep. I sell more term insurance in a week than the average primerica rep sells in his career before he quits. I believe in term insurance. 90-95% of the policies I sell are term insurance. I also believe cash value policies have a place. When I sell a cash value policy its for a specific reason which term doesn't meet. Thats why I can defend it.

I'm with you in that I don't think whole life should be used as a retirement plan....however.....I do belive in its use a SUPPLEMENT to retirement. However, I'll qualify that by saying only a whole life that pays dividends, a variable life, an equity indexed universal life or a universal life should be used. I'm also with you in that I think those old whole life policies that pay no dividends should be replaced in almost all cases.
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#30 UPDATE Employee

When you borrow your cash values????

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

Hey Leroy,

Numero uno: All the crap you say that we are overpriced compared to other term policies is your way of taking the focus off of your high priced low value cash value policies. We are not the most expensive and not the least expensive term, but our market is to help families receive the proper coverage for a much more reasonable amount than they would receive with a cash value policy. We will always beat cash value prices, every companys' term will. Giving people less coverage for more money in a cash value policy is a disservice to the clients you help. And, your clients will never see the cash value in their policies because by the time they realize what a rip-off your product is the money will vanish.

2: When you borrow money from your policy which will not be for many years after a person has put in huge amounts of money (cash value grows very slow and is not dividends or interest as Leroy or anyone says. It is your extra payment above the price of your term policy built in). Thanks Leroy for telling everyone the truth that cash value policies are really term policies with a so-called investment attached (it is really your overpayment and it goes to higher commissions for agents, fancy offices, shareholders, executives, board of directors). One more thing before I talk about when policyholders borrow the insurance companies money, not the policyholders. They sell lower face value cash value life insurance but at a higher price so they can pay out less money on death claims. With term, families would pay such a low amount with higher face values that when someone dies the company is out many times more money than with cash value insurance.

This is really smart that these companies are doing this kind of business and not properly protecting the consumer with the right coverage. I heard something very interesting from one of the annual insurance conventions a couple years ago. All insurance companies were in attendance and one of the speakers said that they should stop thinking of what is good for their clients' needs and start thinking about their own needs, the bottom line, their profits. They said they could do this by offering and selling their higher priced products over their less expensive products (term) even though it is better for their clients. Good thinking there, increase profits, screw families.

Back to borrowing your money. I said you would have to pay taxes on the money you borrowed that year, but I meant to say interest will accrue on the money you borrow until it is paid off. So on supposedly your own money that you have paid in you will pay interest upon interest (compound interest)on this borrowed money somewhere around 8%. That was what I meant to say. Thank you Leroy for clearing that up. Also if you died and never paid back this money it would be subtracted from the face amount of the death claim to your beneficiary.

On borrowing from a UL's or VUL's sub accounts (again the company's money) and let's say you couldn't pay your premiums and the insurance lapsed because you lost your job or something. That is when you would be taxed ordinary income on what you borrowed. And you would still owe the insurance company the money that was borrowed plus interest. Isn't that how it works guys?

By the way Leroy and the gang, where do you all work? Tell us all so we can compare your rates and see if your cash value and term policies are overpriced or not? I'm sure they are comparable to the market like are. What do you have to lose?

Also, I sure hope you don't go around and tell all your clients that Primerica's term policies are overpriced when they are not. California State Commisioner here I come. And, you shouldn't be saying that Primerica agents are half-trained newbies with no licenses because your state commissioner will definitely receive a complaint about your unprofessional business practices from me. And, if I ever run into one of your disillusioned taken advantaged of clients I definitely will educate them on how everything really works and how not to get screwed over again by a fast talking, money first, families last type of agent. I really hope you take care of your clients first with the right products, not the products that will make you and your company richer. They should come first.
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#31 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerican whipping boy Tom embarassing Crimerica further

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Tom from Las Vegas,

I expected you to post more dribble. Rather than going over your (yawnnnn) entire report, I'll just do your first paragraph as that's supposed to be the most important.

Tom further embarasses Crimerica with the following:

"Hey Stuart buddy,
You talk about our term policies being overpriced compared to what company? Of course we are not always the lowest term policy and not the most expensive out there. Our prices are very competitive in our market and we simply have one of the highest quality and best features of any term anyone can own. That is a fact, King of the Shillers Stuart."

LOL, I don't work for Crimerica so how can I shill for them, eh shiller? As far as not being the most expensive and (cough cough) your prices being "very competitive"!, I refer you to your company's
metamorphosis website, the link is:
http://ww3.primerica.com/public/who/articles/
metamorphosis3.html

"PFS charges more than many of its competitors in the term market, but consumers seem willing to pay for what they perceive as better service, Albanese said. Even Travelers, its sister company, charges less for term products." (to the fat cats, can't you see how your new whipping boy is embarassing Crimerica?). The passage doesn't explain what service the consumer is getting because the consumer isn't getting anything but expensive toilet paper since they outlive the policy.

Tom, you ought to go to work for Traveler's as they charge less. For your second treatment, burn this into your brain:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report? is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#32 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerican whipping boy Tom embarassing Crimerica further

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Tom from Las Vegas,

I expected you to post more dribble. Rather than going over your (yawnnnn) entire report, I'll just do your first paragraph as that's supposed to be the most important.

Tom further embarasses Crimerica with the following:

"Hey Stuart buddy,
You talk about our term policies being overpriced compared to what company? Of course we are not always the lowest term policy and not the most expensive out there. Our prices are very competitive in our market and we simply have one of the highest quality and best features of any term anyone can own. That is a fact, King of the Shillers Stuart."

LOL, I don't work for Crimerica so how can I shill for them, eh shiller? As far as not being the most expensive and (cough cough) your prices being "very competitive"!, I refer you to your company's
metamorphosis website, the link is:
http://ww3.primerica.com/public/who/articles/
metamorphosis3.html

"PFS charges more than many of its competitors in the term market, but consumers seem willing to pay for what they perceive as better service, Albanese said. Even Travelers, its sister company, charges less for term products." (to the fat cats, can't you see how your new whipping boy is embarassing Crimerica?). The passage doesn't explain what service the consumer is getting because the consumer isn't getting anything but expensive toilet paper since they outlive the policy.

Tom, you ought to go to work for Traveler's as they charge less. For your second treatment, burn this into your brain:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report? is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#33 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerican whipping boy Tom embarassing Crimerica further

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Tom from Las Vegas,

I expected you to post more dribble. Rather than going over your (yawnnnn) entire report, I'll just do your first paragraph as that's supposed to be the most important.

Tom further embarasses Crimerica with the following:

"Hey Stuart buddy,
You talk about our term policies being overpriced compared to what company? Of course we are not always the lowest term policy and not the most expensive out there. Our prices are very competitive in our market and we simply have one of the highest quality and best features of any term anyone can own. That is a fact, King of the Shillers Stuart."

LOL, I don't work for Crimerica so how can I shill for them, eh shiller? As far as not being the most expensive and (cough cough) your prices being "very competitive"!, I refer you to your company's
metamorphosis website, the link is:
http://ww3.primerica.com/public/who/articles/
metamorphosis3.html

"PFS charges more than many of its competitors in the term market, but consumers seem willing to pay for what they perceive as better service, Albanese said. Even Travelers, its sister company, charges less for term products." (to the fat cats, can't you see how your new whipping boy is embarassing Crimerica?). The passage doesn't explain what service the consumer is getting because the consumer isn't getting anything but expensive toilet paper since they outlive the policy.

Tom, you ought to go to work for Traveler's as they charge less. For your second treatment, burn this into your brain:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report? is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#34 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerican whipping boy Tom embarassing Crimerica further

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Tom from Las Vegas,

I expected you to post more dribble. Rather than going over your (yawnnnn) entire report, I'll just do your first paragraph as that's supposed to be the most important.

Tom further embarasses Crimerica with the following:

"Hey Stuart buddy,
You talk about our term policies being overpriced compared to what company? Of course we are not always the lowest term policy and not the most expensive out there. Our prices are very competitive in our market and we simply have one of the highest quality and best features of any term anyone can own. That is a fact, King of the Shillers Stuart."

LOL, I don't work for Crimerica so how can I shill for them, eh shiller? As far as not being the most expensive and (cough cough) your prices being "very competitive"!, I refer you to your company's
metamorphosis website, the link is:
http://ww3.primerica.com/public/who/articles/
metamorphosis3.html

"PFS charges more than many of its competitors in the term market, but consumers seem willing to pay for what they perceive as better service, Albanese said. Even Travelers, its sister company, charges less for term products." (to the fat cats, can't you see how your new whipping boy is embarassing Crimerica?). The passage doesn't explain what service the consumer is getting because the consumer isn't getting anything but expensive toilet paper since they outlive the policy.

Tom, you ought to go to work for Traveler's as they charge less. For your second treatment, burn this into your brain:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report? is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#35 UPDATE Employee

Why whole life and VUL? More $$$$$ for the company and agent

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

Hey Stuart buddy,
You talk about our term policies being overpriced compared to what company? Of course we are not always the lowest term policy and not the most expensive out there. Our prices are very competitive in our market and we simply have one of the highest quality and best features of any term anyone can own. That is a fact, King of the Shillers Stuart.

I see you like to recap or copy and paste everything anyone says that disagrees with your opinions. Then you say some one liner that doesn't explain or contradict the truth of what we say. The reason you can't contradict anything we say is because you have nothing that proves what you say. Where is your research on this and if any, third party articles on how great your trash value policies are? You can't prove a *&*& thing and I have countless articles (Money, Fortune, Wall Street Journal, etc.) and news programs (20/20, Dateline, CNN, etc.) that tell the facts about trash (cash) value and how it ruins peoples' lives.

Let me ask you something and I'm sure you don't have the guts to tell us. What company do you work for so I can start a board of negativity against your company? The thing is I probably wouldn't have to do that because I'm sure someone already has. The thing is I wouldn't do that to your company because I have better things to do.

And, even writing you now is a complete waste of my time and is taking me away from a family that needs rescuing from your nightmare you sell. So, tell us who you work for so I can research them and tell everyone and you the truth about your company? It's only fair.

Another question I need to ask you is, "Do you really believe whole life, VUL and any other trash value policies out there are not overpriced compared to term?" They are many times more than term policies with less value (face value and cash value that is not the policyholders, if any).

You only talk about how we are overpriced compared to other companys' term policies. You never mention how grossly over priced your whole life, UL, VUL, and any other cash value insurance is compared to term, any term policy with any company. The truth is term from any company is better than cash value insurance.

The reason is, after all the overpayments (your supposed cash accumulation) has been used up by the higher cost premium in any cash value policy, the policy will terminate unless the policy holder pays a much higher, extremely higher premium. Usually the new cash value premium is so high that the person has no choice to cancel their policy. And the surrender charge is not what a person gets back from their policy when they cancel it(someone wrote that earlier). It is what they have to pay above their many years of payments to get their shrinking cash value, if any, out when they cancel.

The thing you say that cash value policies is permanent, but why should people pay insurance for a life time when they have accumulated enough money to be self insured. Isn't that why people are pouring money into 401Ks, IRA's, Roth IRA's, other retirement accounts, so someday they won't have to pay high rising cash value life insurance premiums. People need insurance when they are young and don't have a lot of money, but later as their investments grow then they need less or no life insurance coverage.

That is why term insurance is the right answer for families because it lasts as long as they need it and then they can cancel it. Even, when it reaches its end it can be renewed at a much lower price than a cash value policy would ever be at their older age up to 95.

I know many families out there are not building up enough savings now and for the future and that is how we are helping them. We put them on a written plan (our FNA) to start saving for emergencies, short term, intermediate and long range (retirement) goals. And that is the problem with cash value companies, they come in and only sell the family a whole life policy, a UL or a VUL and say this will provide both your insurance and your investment needs and meet your financial goals.

How is this a plan for a family. Don't tell me you make plans for families, you don't. This is all you do for families because most people are not educated on these misleading products. They don't understand they need real help, real products, and a real "written" plan to accomplish their goals and dreams.

All they get from you is promises that the cash value policy will deliver what you say it will. So, years down the road when they are financially devastated you will be long gone and the company will have to deal with the mess.

You say the FNA is not for real. It is a fill in the blank form that every company out there uses, but we do it complimentary. Many companies with so called financial planners out there charge people $500 to $15,000 to do a financial analysis that says the same as ours does, that they have debt among other things. These companies will then tell these people they can't help them right now because they have too much debt and to come back when they have substantial money to invest. That sounds like they really care about people.

You're right, it's not the licensed financial planner's job to get these people out of debt (even though they hold this title and have a real financial analysis program as you say). I thought they were financial planners helping people with their finances, but why are they turning away people with debt and no money to invest? So, what good is a financial planner that charges a family to do a financial analysis and then turns them away when they have nothing to invest?

How is this helping families Stuart or anybody out there that says they are an expert. This is the biggest disservice a business can do. They are taking their money they can't afford right now and then kicking them out on their butts with no financial help. That is a rip-off. Do you see the difference between what we do and they do Staurt and your wannabe SHILLERS. They rip people off.

A friend of mine came to me for financial help back when I started with Primerica (yes, I was securities licensed). She had almost $100,000 saved in her bank account and wanted to invest it somewhere. I told her I would do an FNA for her and then we could go over the options she would have. Somehow, she decided that since I was relatively new with my company I wouldn't have the expertise to help her.

She went to a big investment company (no reason to give their name) and had them run an financial analysis on her. It cost her $1,500 to do this for her and they put a $10,000 lump sum in an mutual fund account. It instantly lost money and continued to do so for a couple years until it started to finally climb up. Her big-time financial planner agent never checked back with her and she has never done business with them again. They only wanted the sale it sounds like.

After her experience she came to me, mad at what happened to her and not willing to invest anymore of her money. I offered her the FNA I had prepared for her, free of charge and she completely freaked out because the information was almost identical to the one she paid $1,500 for. After she saw are complimentary and completely customized (no 2 families are alike) program she became my "life-time client" as she says.

Oh, I don't want to forget that her financial planner tried to sell her a cash value life insurance product that she didn't even need. He told her it would be a great investment for her retirement ($225 per month) and it could also be used as insurance. She is single, 24 years old and this policy would only give her $150,000 of life insurance. I showed her for almost the same price ($218.50), I could put 2.5 million dollars on her for 30 years.

And at her current rate of savings she would be a millionaire by age 40 and would be self-insured. So, why would she need life insurance if she had this much money free and clear with no debt. She probably would need health insurance and could buy that easily and long term care insurance, but not life insurance. If you wanted to reduce the face amount at the end of the term you could and pay a lot less to renew it.

So, explain to us all why the financial analysis for our company and theirs were basically identical? I guess other companies out there are using the same cookie cutter approach or our program is geared to giving the same, sound, customized reports that they do. Yes, every FNA is different because everyones' information is different.

But, most of the time the program's advice is the same to properly cover families with the right life insurance coverage (not the same for everyone), to get out of debt either by debt restructuring or debt stacking and start putting money away for the childrens' education, emergency accounts, retirement accounts, etc. Of course the finances of families change so we then update their FNA. Other companies charge another fee to do this.

Maybe that is why Quicken is so popular because it has a program that shows people how to get debt free for the price of the program. It also keeps track of their finances which would be better than a financial planner telling them to come back when they have money and are debt free.

On another subject of cash value life insurance:
In your cash value policies (please read them for your own good to find out the truth) it says the day the policy will end if no more (higher premiums) money is paid to this. My friend bought a cash value policy for him and his wife (both 30 years old) and in the policy it showed if they don't pay more at age 40, their policies would lapse, quit, terminate!!!!

Do you understand this? They were so pissed off by this because they said the person that sold it to them said the premiums would never go up and in 20 years the policy would be paid up. This way they wouldn't have to pay any more money since it was supposed to be a permanent whole life policy.

They called the company's 1-800 number and they confirmed that additional premiums would be needed at age 40 to keep the insurance in place. Another thing was they were paying $90 for $50,000 of coverage each and I gave them $300,000 each and $10,000 on their kids for $93.11. For $3.11 more, I gave this family the proper coverage they needed. The thing is their ex-agent could have done the right thing by giving them the proper coverage with a term policy and made about the same money.

To me this shows that the managers/shareholders of these cash value companies are pushing their agents to sell low face value high premium cash value policies because the death claims are much less. If one of my friends passed away with their old coverage of $50,000 then the company is better off paying less than paying the higher face value of $300,000. That is really smart and you say we are in it for the money.

Cash value policies sold pay companies and agents huge amounts of money compared to the term policies we sell. So, who's in it for the money, our company that sells the proper coverage for a lower price or your company that sells a much higher priced product that hurts people and makes you guys more money? You say you are smart?

You talk about how we are over priced, but compared to your cash value product that is extremely over priced, we are a bargain. Your product will terminate when the premiums, you say will never go up, can't pay the policy anymore. This sounds like the real rip-off here.

People, don't listen to anyone on this board that doesn't tell you to do your own research and listen to the facts of these products. The truth is out there and it is not on this board of someone that had a bad experience one time and never gave this or any company out there a chance.

These people on here with bad comments have nothing better to do than complain and I'm sure they have other companies they are whining about on here somewhere. So, stop looking at these sites that anyone can write anything they want because they are not regulated. These sites give mostly opinions and some truth, but look for it yourself. Some sites to look on our the SEC, NASD, Better Business Bureau, your local and state insurance division, company credit agencies (Fitch, AM Best, Moodys, Standard and Poors), 3rd part articles (Consumer Reports, Wall Street Journal, Money, Fortune, Success from Home, and many others). Good luck to everyone. Make the right choices.


And to Stuart and the Shillers, no hard feelings on hearing the truth right?
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#36 Consumer Comment

Tom In Vegas...fountain of misinformation

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Tom repeats the same old lies, distortions and urban legends all newbie primereica reps do. Some of his information is so factually wrong it must be brough to attention. It also undermines his claim to having a finance degree. I will bring these up and point out once again why dealing with primerica is bad for a family because they send out half trained twits who don't know what they are talking about. NUMERO UNO.....Tom says some things about CASH VALUE LOANS that if he said to one of my clients I would file a complaint with Nevada Insurance Commissioner; a.) If you take a cash value loan and don't pay it back that year you have to pay taxes on it. FALSE: IRS code 7702 & 7702A says this isn't true. If you SURRENDER the policy, and you receieve more than you paid in premiums,...you would be taxed on the difference in that year. HOWEVER...if you die with a cash value loan still unpaid....NO TAX IS EVER PAID!!!!!!!! UNDER NO CONDITIONS DO YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON LOAN PROCEEDS WITHIN A YEAR. Tom doesn't know what he is talking about!!! #2- You have to borrow your own money FALSE: You are borrowing the insurance company's money. Your money is held as collateral for the loan. It stays in the cash value account and continues to collect ineterest. #3- You pay high interest for a cash value loan FALSE: Here is where once again primerica reps illustrate the don't know what they are talking about. Cash value policies will specify a NET INTEREST rate....the difference between the interest charged on the loan and the interest paid to your cash value. With some it is ZERO PERCENT. Most are around 2%. If you are ever subjected to a having to listen to some primerica newbie, as he looks at your policy, ask him what the NET interest rate is. He won't know. It will show you why primerica reps can't be trusted to make a recommendation on a cash value policy. Tom repeats the old "whole life pays a higher commission" myth. TRUTH: If a client says he is willing to spend 'X' amount on life insurance...it makes absolutely no financial difference to the agent whether they buy whole life or term...none, zip, zilch, nada. If anything, term in some cases will pay the agent a higher commission. Tom says cash value insurance is NEVER an investment OPINION ONLY- according to the IRS cash value insurance is allowable as an investment inside of 401k's, 403b's and pension and profit sharing plans. In addition, small business owners will use universal life as a place to put excess profits in really good years because they can take the money out tax free (IRC 7702) later in bad years. Tom Quotes Suze Orman <<
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#37 Consumer Comment

Tom In Vegas...fountain of misinformation

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Tom repeats the same old lies, distortions and urban legends all newbie primereica reps do. Some of his information is so factually wrong it must be brough to attention. It also undermines his claim to having a finance degree. I will bring these up and point out once again why dealing with primerica is bad for a family because they send out half trained twits who don't know what they are talking about. NUMERO UNO.....Tom says some things about CASH VALUE LOANS that if he said to one of my clients I would file a complaint with Nevada Insurance Commissioner; a.) If you take a cash value loan and don't pay it back that year you have to pay taxes on it. FALSE: IRS code 7702 & 7702A says this isn't true. If you SURRENDER the policy, and you receieve more than you paid in premiums,...you would be taxed on the difference in that year. HOWEVER...if you die with a cash value loan still unpaid....NO TAX IS EVER PAID!!!!!!!! UNDER NO CONDITIONS DO YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON LOAN PROCEEDS WITHIN A YEAR. Tom doesn't know what he is talking about!!! #2- You have to borrow your own money FALSE: You are borrowing the insurance company's money. Your money is held as collateral for the loan. It stays in the cash value account and continues to collect ineterest. #3- You pay high interest for a cash value loan FALSE: Here is where once again primerica reps illustrate the don't know what they are talking about. Cash value policies will specify a NET INTEREST rate....the difference between the interest charged on the loan and the interest paid to your cash value. With some it is ZERO PERCENT. Most are around 2%. If you are ever subjected to a having to listen to some primerica newbie, as he looks at your policy, ask him what the NET interest rate is. He won't know. It will show you why primerica reps can't be trusted to make a recommendation on a cash value policy. Tom repeats the old "whole life pays a higher commission" myth. TRUTH: If a client says he is willing to spend 'X' amount on life insurance...it makes absolutely no financial difference to the agent whether they buy whole life or term...none, zip, zilch, nada. If anything, term in some cases will pay the agent a higher commission. Tom says cash value insurance is NEVER an investment OPINION ONLY- according to the IRS cash value insurance is allowable as an investment inside of 401k's, 403b's and pension and profit sharing plans. In addition, small business owners will use universal life as a place to put excess profits in really good years because they can take the money out tax free (IRC 7702) later in bad years. Tom Quotes Suze Orman <<
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#38 Consumer Comment

Tom In Vegas...fountain of misinformation

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Tom repeats the same old lies, distortions and urban legends all newbie primereica reps do. Some of his information is so factually wrong it must be brough to attention. It also undermines his claim to having a finance degree. I will bring these up and point out once again why dealing with primerica is bad for a family because they send out half trained twits who don't know what they are talking about. NUMERO UNO.....Tom says some things about CASH VALUE LOANS that if he said to one of my clients I would file a complaint with Nevada Insurance Commissioner; a.) If you take a cash value loan and don't pay it back that year you have to pay taxes on it. FALSE: IRS code 7702 & 7702A says this isn't true. If you SURRENDER the policy, and you receieve more than you paid in premiums,...you would be taxed on the difference in that year. HOWEVER...if you die with a cash value loan still unpaid....NO TAX IS EVER PAID!!!!!!!! UNDER NO CONDITIONS DO YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON LOAN PROCEEDS WITHIN A YEAR. Tom doesn't know what he is talking about!!! #2- You have to borrow your own money FALSE: You are borrowing the insurance company's money. Your money is held as collateral for the loan. It stays in the cash value account and continues to collect ineterest. #3- You pay high interest for a cash value loan FALSE: Here is where once again primerica reps illustrate the don't know what they are talking about. Cash value policies will specify a NET INTEREST rate....the difference between the interest charged on the loan and the interest paid to your cash value. With some it is ZERO PERCENT. Most are around 2%. If you are ever subjected to a having to listen to some primerica newbie, as he looks at your policy, ask him what the NET interest rate is. He won't know. It will show you why primerica reps can't be trusted to make a recommendation on a cash value policy. Tom repeats the old "whole life pays a higher commission" myth. TRUTH: If a client says he is willing to spend 'X' amount on life insurance...it makes absolutely no financial difference to the agent whether they buy whole life or term...none, zip, zilch, nada. If anything, term in some cases will pay the agent a higher commission. Tom says cash value insurance is NEVER an investment OPINION ONLY- according to the IRS cash value insurance is allowable as an investment inside of 401k's, 403b's and pension and profit sharing plans. In addition, small business owners will use universal life as a place to put excess profits in really good years because they can take the money out tax free (IRC 7702) later in bad years. Tom Quotes Suze Orman <<
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#39 Consumer Comment

Tom In Vegas...fountain of misinformation

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Tom repeats the same old lies, distortions and urban legends all newbie primereica reps do. Some of his information is so factually wrong it must be brough to attention. It also undermines his claim to having a finance degree. I will bring these up and point out once again why dealing with primerica is bad for a family because they send out half trained twits who don't know what they are talking about. NUMERO UNO.....Tom says some things about CASH VALUE LOANS that if he said to one of my clients I would file a complaint with Nevada Insurance Commissioner; a.) If you take a cash value loan and don't pay it back that year you have to pay taxes on it. FALSE: IRS code 7702 & 7702A says this isn't true. If you SURRENDER the policy, and you receieve more than you paid in premiums,...you would be taxed on the difference in that year. HOWEVER...if you die with a cash value loan still unpaid....NO TAX IS EVER PAID!!!!!!!! UNDER NO CONDITIONS DO YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON LOAN PROCEEDS WITHIN A YEAR. Tom doesn't know what he is talking about!!! #2- You have to borrow your own money FALSE: You are borrowing the insurance company's money. Your money is held as collateral for the loan. It stays in the cash value account and continues to collect ineterest. #3- You pay high interest for a cash value loan FALSE: Here is where once again primerica reps illustrate the don't know what they are talking about. Cash value policies will specify a NET INTEREST rate....the difference between the interest charged on the loan and the interest paid to your cash value. With some it is ZERO PERCENT. Most are around 2%. If you are ever subjected to a having to listen to some primerica newbie, as he looks at your policy, ask him what the NET interest rate is. He won't know. It will show you why primerica reps can't be trusted to make a recommendation on a cash value policy. Tom repeats the old "whole life pays a higher commission" myth. TRUTH: If a client says he is willing to spend 'X' amount on life insurance...it makes absolutely no financial difference to the agent whether they buy whole life or term...none, zip, zilch, nada. If anything, term in some cases will pay the agent a higher commission. Tom says cash value insurance is NEVER an investment OPINION ONLY- according to the IRS cash value insurance is allowable as an investment inside of 401k's, 403b's and pension and profit sharing plans. In addition, small business owners will use universal life as a place to put excess profits in really good years because they can take the money out tax free (IRC 7702) later in bad years. Tom Quotes Suze Orman <<
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#40 Consumer Comment

Analyzing gary's/ primerica's fairy tales

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

1. primerica gives their FNA away for free while other companies charge $500-1500
<<< They don't charge for the FNA for 2 reasons
a.) the only similarity between primerica's canned sales pitch, which they call a Financial Needs Analysis, and a REAL financial plan put together by a professional with professional designations, is both are on paper with ink. One is a canned sales pitch, the other a true financial analysis with a license to do so
B.) primerica people aren't licensed to do a true financial plan. All they offer are cookie-cutter plans....all they do is fill in the names and numbers. The solution is the same for everyone with primerica.

2. Gary talks about how primerica does mutual funds with at least funds, makes sure isn't too much in one sector...then says ":The Rerst of the industry doesn't do it this way, they sell only on return
<<< OH PUH-LEEZE!!!!! Every beginning rerpresentative is taught this stuf from day #1. Its called Planning 101. To say only primerica does it this way is just stupid.

3. Gary says baby boomers only have $55,000 set aside for retirement.
<<< They would have more but primerica charges so much more premium for term insurance and for the interest on loans it has negatively effected the national average.

4. Gary says Credit card debt at all time high
<<< What is it in ratio to household earning? I read a report in wall Street Journal recently that said its lower in relation to all household earnings that at any time since credit cards were first introduced. It a meaningless statistic

5. Gary says Savings rate is negative 1.1%
>>> How the savings rate is calculated is outmoded and has been for numbers of years because it doesn't take into account some popular savings vehicles like ROTH IRAs and 401ks. They hadn't been invented when this statistic wascreated.

6. Bankruptcies at an alltime high
<<< DUH!!!! They just changed the law in October of 2005 so there was a surge in filings by people trying to beat the deadline. In actuality, bankruptcy filings have dropped to below average since then. Both statistics are 100% meaningless given the unusual change in the law in 2005. People like gary can't see this...if thir company says "Bankruptcies are at an all time high they don't bother to read into the stat and see what may have caused it.

7. Gary says primerica reps have to have the same licensing and continuing ed as all reps
<<< True, HOWEVER, you won't see primerica reps with Professional Designations like CLU or CFP. The reason is primerica realizes if their good salespeople start doing studying beyond the bare basics they leave primerica. Thus at primerica you will get a newbie rep with no experience OR, a 20 year vet with the same lack of knowledge as a newbie rep....like gary who has said some incredibly false things regarding how permanent insurance works.

8. Gary says people should have 8-10 times their income for family protection, says industry average death benefit is only $12,000 (gary originally said $18,000 then dropped the number) while primerica;s is $200,000
<<<< Once again, an examination of this stat reveals something else. To start with, the industry average for TERM INSURANCE death benefit paid is $243,000....some $43,000 higher than primerica. The reason? Most likely rates as primerica sells among the most expensive term insurance in the industry. Its lack of value as a product is further compounded by the fact it doesn't have a decent conversion option to turn to if conversion becomes necessary.
Secondly, the people collecting death benefits on cash value policies are in their 70s and 80s. They bought those policies either decades ago when $10,000 was several times yearly salary, or just recently just for burial.

9. Buy term, invest the difference works quite well for many people....but not all like primetrica wants to pretend. Self-insuring later in life works well for some, but not all the people like primerica wants to pretend. Each individual has a unique set of circumstances, something primerica also wants to pretend doesn't happen.

10. gary says foreclosures at an alltime high
<<< maybe they would be lower if people didn't purchase ridiculously expensive not-so-SMART loans marketed by primerica which average 1.5-1.75% higher interestr rates than other companies, and charge anywhere from $2,000-5,000 more in fees per loan.

11. Gary puts in a plug for A.L. Williams new book...challenges us to read it
<<<< I have challenged Gary many times to read Jack Guttenberg's book about mortgages but he is yet to do so. It details deceptive loan practices aimed at getting the consumer to pay a much higher interest rate than they qualify for. Obviously someone at primerica read that part of the book as many of those practices are uincorpoarted intop the canned loan sales pitch primerica reps are taught.

12. In a previous rant, gary said rerm insurance wasn't mass marketed.
<<< almost half of all policies sold are now term insurance. Everyday consumers are hit with radio , newspaper and TV ads talking about low cost term insurance. Everyday consumers are solicited by their bank or credit card company to buy low cost term insurance....but someohow this has escaped gary's notice.
FACT: If a consumer is going to spend $X on life insurance, it doesn't make a bit of commission difference to the agent whether the consumer buys term or whole life. The commission will be 80-100% of $X, whatever $X is.

Lastly, do you want a salesperson to give you a canned sales pitch, like primerica reps do, in which they rip the competetition and tell you how wonderful they are.....or do you want someone to listen to you and then user the entire marketplace to put together to best possible solution to your unique needs. If you want to hear a sales pitch...go to primerica. If the latter sounds better, try any independant agent.
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#41 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rebutting - Crimerica's New Whipping Boy

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Apparently Tom, you're the new shiller for Crimerica using the same tired lies and half-truths.

"Any company that sells Variable Universal Life, Universal Life or whole life insurance (these cash value insurance types are all the same) is hurting their clients. They sell it as an investment (some times as insurance) and when you need your money you have to borrow it at a very high interest rate or there simply is no money to take out." VUL is meant for retirement purposes. Term insurance can't be used for that purpose because policyholders outlive the policy. Furthermore Crimerica is known for selling very expensive term insurance which benefits the fat cats at Crimerica.

"Remember, insurance is to protect the income of the husband and/or wife if one or both pass away. It is income protection always, not an investment never." For retirement purposes, VUL - YES, term insurance - NO.

"Also, Consumer Reports says that term insurance is right for 100% of families. Many other publications (Money, Wall Street Journal, etc.)tell that term is right for all families and that it is not an investment or can not be used as a tax advantage (The IRS on it's tax forms says it is an overpayment, not dividends or a growth of your premeiums). Actually, if there was cash value in your policy and you borrowed this money and didn't pay it back by the end of the year you would then be taxed on this money that is supposed to be your money. Good deal, huh?" This shiller's grammar is terrible. Is he talking about VUL or term? Anyways in regards to VUL, the operating term is "if" since it's designed for retirement purposes which is the main purpose for life insurance, a function that term insurance wasn't designed for.

"Also, why do you have to borrow your own money in your investment?" The answer is you don't touch the money in the account as it's designed for retirement purposes which is part of long-term planning.

"So, talk bad about ________, but we do what is right for families 100% of the time." Correction,
you're robbing their futures.

"That is why we sell different length level term policies from 5 years to 35 years and the client always knows when it will end." No better than toilet paper since over 95% of Crimerica's policyholders see no payout from these type of policyholders (a big scam) as the average age people live to is 80 years.

"I recently graduated with a finance degree." Care to document this on Ripoff Report, shiller?

"So, don't think that Primerica does not train our agents like any other company, we do." Since when?

Burn this into your brain, Tom:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#42 UPDATE Employee

Be careful of cash value insurance and other bad financial products

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

Watch out for cash value insurance and other financial products!!

Any company that sells Variable Universal Life, Universal Life or whole life insurance (these cash value insurance types are all the same) is hurting their clients. They sell it as an investment (some times as insurance) and when you need your money you have to borrow it at a very high interest rate or there simply is no money to take out.

The reason there's no money is that the company gives you the guaranteed portion (which is zero for the first few years and then the smallest fraction of what you have contributed to this policy) not the projected and then you have to pay absurd surrender charges. And if a family had been paying into this long, their children's education fund or there retirement fund would be nothing or almost nothing. Does this sound good for families?

Remember, insurance is to protect the income of the husband and/or wife if one or both pass away. It is income protection always, not an investment never.

Again, it is never an investment. The higher premiums you pay for these cash value policies are overpayments (not dividends or accummulating cash value)that will eventually when the cost of the policy eats away the overpayments will self terminate unless you pay an exorbitant amount of money to keep it going.

Read this in your insurance policies. It is there or ask someone with Primerica or even the agent that sold this policy to go over it with you. The agent that sold you this policy probably has no idea of what they are selling you because they have not studied their own policies or they like making tons more money from these than selling what is right- term insurance. I have read every insurance company's policy out there and they all basically say what I'm telling you now. Beware of these policies, they will ruin your life. Read your policy today. Understand it.

I had one of these policies sold to me as a fund for college. The guy guaranteed me that my account would grow between 8 to 10% per year. When I tried to get $1,000 out to pay for my classes, the company told me what money, this is life insurance, not a savings account or an investment.

So, after I fought with the company over 4 months, they refunded all my premiums and told me it was a big misunderstanding. The misunderstanding was the way these cash value policies are being sold to people as college funds, retirement accounts and simply an investment for whatever. They gave me my money back because I was writing to every politician, better business bureau, news station, newspapers and they decided this guy is serious and will show to the world the truth.

The truth is Suze Orman even talks about how bad these cash value products are and she is not a representative of term insurance or Primerica or any company that sells term. The truth is that many of my clients that I educate on buying term and putting them a sound investment (not part of the insurance) always get a call from the agent of the company we replaced after and they say we didn't know you wanted term insurance and now we can do it for you. Then the client will ask the agent why they sold them this higher priced product when they couldn't afford it when term would have been right for this family.

The agent has no explanation and will plead to keep their business. But, the client will see that making a few more bucks on this cash value policy was more important to this agent than their family's future well being and what was right for them. So, the real reason this company is pushing their people to sell this higher priced cash value insurance product because they make a lot of money, tons more money.

They don't care that they are hurting families, people they care about. I believe they are doing this because they really don't know what they are selling and they like the idea of making more money. And when these agents do find out the truth they still sell it or defend their actions on why it's okay to hurt families by selling this crap.

Also, Consumer Reports says that term insurance is right for 100% of families. Many other publications (Money, Wall Street Journal, etc.)tell that term is right for all families and that it is not an investment or can not be used as a tax advantage (The IRS on it's tax forms says it is an overpayment, not dividends or a growth of your premeiums). Actually, if there was cash value in your policy and you borrowed this money and didn't pay it back by the end of the year you would then be taxed on this money that is supposed to be your money. Good deal, huh?

Also, why do you have to borrow your own money in your investment? The reason is you are not the owner of this money you put in, the company owns it. Read in your policies, it spells it out that your policy and the money is owned by the company, not you. I suggest to everyone with one of these policies to read it and you will see you have been taken advantage of. Look under subaccounts. What is a subaccount? Something that is owned by the company and not you, the policy holder. This is a big part of Universal Life, subaccounts. What a ripoff.

So, talk bad about Primerica, but we do what is right for families 100% of the time. Keep selling your cash value insurance policies and we will continue to educate them on what you really did for them. You sold them an overpriced term policy that will terminate itself after so many years if a substanially higher premium is not paid.

That is why we sell different length level term policies from 5 years to 35 years and the client always knows when it will end. This way they will have time to build their investments so they can drop life insurance totally. And, when the policy does reach its end, the client has the choice to renew it without any medical tests (unless they increase the face amount) or regardless of any medical problems at a much lower rate than it will cost if they owned whole life, universal life or variable universal life and it threatened to terminate itself without unreasonably high premiums.

The reason for this is that when there is no more cash value in the policy (cash value is gone because insurance cost has used it all up-all the overpayments), the premiums in the cash value policies are so high that most people will have to let it go and have to pay the surrender charges. So if the client that owns a cash value policy has to pay more so his insurance will not terminate, he/she will always pay a lot less with term when he/she renews it.

So, my advice to everyone is to read your policies and become educated in all the financial areas you do business in, insurances, mortgages, investments, etc. This way when someone comes to you with a financial product you will be ready and you will not be misled or taken advantage of by these companies that are supposed to help us, or they say.

I learned about the ripoff of life insurance companies 3 years before I even joined Primerica. So, don't tell me I don't understand how they really work or that Primerica brainwashed me. I did my own research and figured it out on my own. I even started telling people about it and many already knew that cash value policies were bad for people.

Then, I was introduced to Primerica and then I knew my voice could be heard through building many Primerica offices to educate families on the truth. We don't make money on recruiting people in Primerica. We make money on what we sell and then helping new hires get the proper training, the proper licenses and then making money for themselves.

I recently graduated with a finance degree and I put my resume on Monster just to see who would contact me. Every financial service company (insurance, mortgage, investment) has contacted me to work with them saying my resume is great because of my experience working with Primerica. They also said they would train me, but obviously being with Primerica for over five years I probably wouldn't need as much training. See, if I had just graduated without any experience, I'm sure they would have contacted me anyway and offered to train me just like we do with Primerica.

So, don't think that Primerica does not train our agents like any other company, we do. We have extensive training and not just yelling and motivational ra ra ra. You are right we do clap and celebrate people in our business that perform to their potential and succeed here. Not many companies reward their people or employees like we do for doing a great job. Usually you get noticed for what you did wrong and we don't do that here.

For you WGA or WMA people, don't act like you are better because your system came from your leader that brought it to Primerica first.

Tom - LAS VEGAS, Nevada
U.S.A.
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#43 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, dribbles on

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

"This is my last time on here, period." I know you'll be back Gary, either under your name or somebody else's unless Crimerica replaces you with another whipping boy.

"As for Leroy & Stuart ... they keep hashing over & hasseling me with their "opinions" First, whipping boy Gary, we can't help it when your Crimerican masters snap their fingers telling you to troll over to Ripoff Report and do your shilling here. With regards to me and Leroy, we've only given the facts, but you spin tales, exaggerate, and use name-calling just as if you were acting like a baby. Well I can tell you that me, Leroy and others won't be intimidated by the likes of you and your cohorts (BTW I don't feel sorry for you because you know better, but I'm sympathetic towards many trainees and policyholders who are being victimized).

"FACT: Credit Card Debt is at an all time high. (and they have increased the minimum payment from 2% - 4% which doubles the minimum payments required ... so if a family is paying $400 a month minimum on their credit cards it just jumped to $800) which explains why:

FACT: Bankruptcies are at an all time high! AND:"

But is the RATE of bankruptcies and debt versus US population at an all-time high?

"FACT: The savings rate has dropped to a negative 1.1%" What's really important is how much money you have in your bank accounts.

"People are spending more than they make!" Meaningless statement Gary - what proportion of the population is doing this?

"FACT: We have to pass the same licensing & continueing education requirements (that you all do) for any area we are licensed in - Securities, Life & Health Insurance & Mortgages." But are you
financial planners?

"FACT: 59% of the families out there do not own any life insurance" Either they don't need it or can't afford it (i.e. Crimerica which sells defective term insurance trying to pass it off as
life insurance since almost all the policyholders
outlive their useless policies - VUL beats term every time in this case).

Gary, just to show you I'm not heartless and if you're really sincere about not coming back, then I have a parting gift for you:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#44 UPDATE Employee

Jen - And Leroy & Stuart

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Hi Jen, in CA;

Years ago our opposition would say we would be out of business in 2-years. Well it's been a loooong 2-years and this next August of 2007 we will celebrate our 30th anniversary at the Super Dome in Atlanta, GA!

By the way, was your "reliable source" listed here on Ripoff.bomb or some other internet site?? We are (still) in business in all 50 States, (which does include Kansas) and also Guam, Puerto Rico, Canada, Spain & the United Kingdom. Again relying totally on the internet for the truth is like wiping before you poop ... it makes no sense at all.... !

When it comes to becoming Financially Independant (Rich!) according to our fund manager partners with Legg/Mason & Smith Barney (which by the way are the best of the best in the industry): 50% of the return comes from having a written game plan (we have the FNA that we provide at no charge - where other firms charge $500 to as high as $1500 or even more) .... 25% comes from proper asset allocation (using a 3-fund approach - which we do & the underlying stock is not duplicated or redundant within those funds) ... 20% from having a coach to keep you accountable to your long & short term goals (PFS Securities Licensed Rep.) & finally ... 5% is the rate of return! But the industry doesn't do it that way! They sell by rates of return (which only accounts for 5%) by using a rear-view mirror approach. OH yeah ... by the the way there are approximately 112 million households in the USA alone ... & only 17 million of those are considered affluent meaning they can invest $100,000 or more. That leaves 95 million households not getting much or any help at all ... which is our market and that market has largely been ignored by the brokerage firms.

As for Leroy & Stuart ... they keep hashing over & hasseling me with their "opinions". But the Facts are the Facts. We deal in money, money is math & math is a science & science is FACT!!

FACT: The average 55 year old has less than $55,000 set aside for retirement.

FACT: Credit Card Debt is at an all time high. (and they have increased the minimum payment from 2% - 4% which doubles the minimum payments required ... so if a family is paying $400 a month minimum on their credit cards it just jumped to $800) which explains why:

FACT: The savings rate has dropped to a negative 1.1% (lowest since the Great Depression of the 1930's) Which explains why:

FACT: Bankruptcies are at an all time high! AND:

FACT: People are spending more than they make!

FACT: We have to pass the same licensing & continueing education requirements (that you all do) for any area we are licensed in - Securities, Life & Health Insurance & Mortgages.

FACT: 59% of the families out there do not own any life insurance & 44% surveyed say they need more coverage (Kiplingers - 2005)

FACT: Experts say the bread-winner needs 8-10 times their annual income in life insurance. (Average bread-winner with an income of $25,000 take home = protection of between $200,000 to $250,000)

FACT: This income protection rule of thumb (above) has been around forever! But the average death benefit paid by the traditional industy is in the neighborhood of $12,000!! - not even close to what that family needed.) OK, so that agent (according to Leroy or was it Stuart?) sold that person 10 policies each worth $12,000 each for a total of $120,000, still leaving them underinsured & over-premiumed!!!

FACT: Buy term & invest the difference far surpasses any VUL or whole life policy. And upon death the surviving spouse will get any death benefit in force Plus the investment. BUT! ... once self insured, there's no need for life insurance. The spouse will inherit the money in the investment.

FACT: I have never met anyone who said: I just cashed in my whole life policy or VUL & have more money than I know what to do with! Yet that's how they're sold, as an investment & not life insurance protection. Most VUL if the guarantees are paid will self destruct ... no insurance & no cash before age 65....

FACT: Over 700,000 foreclosures expected just this year on homes that were bought in most cases using exotic loans (ARMS & interest only) & may climb higher to close to a million...!

FACT: Our founder Art Williams has written a new book "Coach" due out in bookstores soon (his two other books: "Pushing UP People" & "All You Can Do ... Is All You Can Do")

CHALLENGE: READ THEM & other information published outside of the industry that have nothing to gain or lose & has an objective point of view.


This is my last time on here, period. This is not a solicitation to purchase books, stocks or mutual funds either. We can argue all day over opinions but the facts are still the facts: Which Leroy & Stuart tend to ignore - gloss-over or twist, lie about & distort. (But I forgive them .... for they "Do not know .. what they do!" ......

I'm off to build a business & change the world into a better place to live for my family & generations of other families....
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#45 Consumer Comment

deleted responses

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

1. gary says the cash values in a variable life policy don't belong to the policyholder.
<<< This would come as a shock to the S.E.C. Also if a anyone told a variable life policy holder this in an attempt to get him to to switch policies he could be in trouble. The cash values in variable policies are held in SEPARATE accounts. They are called that they are held SEPARATE from the general assets of the insurance company. If the insurance company fails the money in those accounts still belongs to the policyholder and is free from any claims of creditors of the insurance company.

2. Garys says The THEORY of Decreasing Responsibility works
<<
3. gary says he and his RVP are available to clients 24/7/365
<<< Does anyone believe this?
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#46 Consumer Comment

Gary repeats some old lies, makes up some new ones

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

1. Gary says the policyholder doesn't own the cash values in a variable life policy.
<<
2. Gary makes a big deal of why life insurance isn't allowed to be in a qualified tax plans such as an IRA
<<< First of all gary, life insurance can be owned inside of a 403b plan for teachers, nurses, ministers and those working for non-profits. Life insurance can also be owned inside a 401k and a pension plan as long as the premium doesn't surpass more than 50% of the total contribution.
(25% for universal life because the IRS deems universal life to be term insurance. You are the perfect example of how primerica reps don't get full training in the business. Lastly gary, the taxation of the ROTH IRA was patterned after the tax benefits in cash value life insurance plans. You really whiffed on this whole subject 20 primerica year vet!

3. Gary calls Return of Premium Term a gimmick
<<< Gary still ignores the fact that primerica term is so overpriced that the small difference in premium between primerica regular term and Return of Premium means that the poor sap who purchases primerica would have to find an investment that averaged 14% for males and 22% for females to equal the cash the Return of Premium term will have after 20 years...Guaranteed, with NO RISK or TAX!

4. Gary says nothing in life insurance policies are guaranteed
<<< gary couldn't be anymore wrong, or anymore poorly trained. The insurance company guarantees the death benefit and cash values. In addition, there are GOVERNMENT guarantees similar to FDIC in place for the the cash values and death benefits if the insurance company fails. Gary fails to mention, (he probably doesn't know), that on universal life and variable life there are Guaranteed Death benefit Riders which can be added that make sure the policy will never lapse as long as the premiums are paid...regardless of interest rate or stock market performance.

5. Gary wines that Stuart and I haven't read some book he likes
<<< Similarly I have challenged gary 200 times to read jack Guttenberg's book on mortgages especially pages 112-123 which detail mortgage scams. It talks about things like biweekly plans and deceitful terms like "interest rates don't matter, only time in debt matters".

6. Gary says THEORY of Decreasing Responsibility works
<<<
7. Gary attempts some silliness in response to my challenge that if TERM LIFE isn't marketed, why can software be purchased that tracks the term rates of 100s of companies. He says just because we track them doesn't mean term gets sold.
<<
8. Gary complains about people converting their term policies to cash value insurance
<<< People will convert their term to cash value insurance later in life because they want to or they have to due to poor health. Having a term policy with a conversion option to a good universal life is a good thing to have because you just never know. If you did know, there would be no need for insurance of any kind.

9. Gary says other agents don't set up IRAs
<<< Oh geez. This is just so silly I am without words. In a nutshell....WE ALL DO!!!!!

10. Gary repeats the primerica mantra that they do the right thing 100% of the time
<<< That would be true if and only if these three things were true
A. selling people overpriced term insurance is the right thing to do (primerica's average death benefit paid is $200,000...industry average for term insurance....$243,000, Primerica leaves the family UNDERINSURED by $43,000...that just ain't right)
B. Convincing some poor shlep that he should buy a 7.75% loan instead of the 6% loan he qualifies for by using a deceptive sale script is right.,..thus causing him to pay Citigroup and extra $75,000-100,000 in interest over 20 years. That just ain't right
C. Leading people to believe they will average 12% in the stock market buy purchasing loaded mutual funds is right. Not many mutual funds have beaten the average of the SP500 which has averaged only 8.4% since its inception...not 12%. That just ain't right.

11. Gary talks about other companies doing a bait & switch
<<< I have no idea what he is talking about but what couild be a bigger bait and switch than "would you be interested in a managerial position with Citibank" as a come on to make someone a peddler of term life insurance for primerica?

12. Gary repeats same old lie that "interest rates don't matter, only time in debt matters"
<<< gary of course ignores the fact that either the time in debt OR the payment will be directly effected by the interest rate. If you pay the same payment a not-so-SMART loan from primerica requires to a good loan instead...on average you will shorten your time in debt by 46-48 months. If you make a lower payment with the same frequency as priumerica's goofy bi-weekly plan, you will be out of debt in precisely the same amount of time while making lower payments. INTEREST RATES MATTER MOST ON A LOAN!!!!!!!!! Anyone who tells you anything different is LYING TO YOU TO MAKE A SALE!!!

13. Gary says he is available by phone 24/7/365
<<
14. Gary says Harvard and Yale business schools use primerica as a model.
<<< My guess is this came from the same fountain of disinformation as "State Farm is copying our business model." TRhat was a chestnut primericans were passing around a few years ago. It was a total fabrication. Yes, I'm sure Harvard and Yale are saying "take your MBAs boys and go out and multilevel market soap and jewelry"!

Note to editors.......sometimes I think you believe I am making personal attacks on gary when I am attempting to demonstrate the poor level of training this person has received from his company over his 20 years in the business. My effort is directed at primerica for doing such a poor job of training and hiding relevant facts about cash value life insurance. People like Gary go out and tell half the story to a client, the half primerica gives them....and in many cases its a distorted or unfactual half. A specific example is when I pointed out how Gary claimed that agents who sold a whole life policy received a new commission each year on paid up additions dividend options when they don't. I was attempting to clearly demonstrate how someone who has been with that company for 20 years can have such poor knowledge about the class policies he is recommending be terminated.
Consumers need to see these examples highlighted when they arise.
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#47 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rebutting Crimerica's whipping boy (Gary - who else?) once again.

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

That embarassment to Crimerica, Gary, continues to top himself in making a fool out of himself. His tricks aren't succeeding and he's brought further shame to Crimerica.

In this latest episode Gary says in his fakeroo challenge "Stuart: If VUL is such a great investment ... why doesn't it qualify as an IRA (either traditional or Roth)?? huummmmm??" The answer, fool, is that VUL is not intended to be an investment, it's NOT an investment nor did I ever say it was. It's designed to provide retirement income up to age 100 for the spouse (normally female). If it were an investment then the insured wouldn't get a guaranteed payout which would defeat the purpose (get yourself an education Gary - you need one).

With term, practically all Crimerican policyholders might as well use it for toilet paper since they outlive the policy - no payout. I would attempt to contact another insurance company and see if that trash term policy can be replaced with a different insurance policy such as VUL where you know that your spouse is being taken care of.

Gary, another refresher:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
Hmmmmmm Gary?
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#48 Consumer Comment

Primerica Outlawed In Kansas

AUTHOR: Jen - (U.S.A.)

I was told by a close source that Primerica was outlawed in the state of Kansas because of too many "orphan policies". I'm confused because Primerica's "whooping boy" is from Kansas.

So I'm wondering what anyone knows about the accusation that Primerica is outlawed in Kansas?
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#49 Consumer Comment

All I can tell you about Primerica is...

AUTHOR: Maria - (U.S.A.)

that I agree with one of the comments about Primerica recruiting the uneducated or poor. Last year my fiance and I attended a job skills program after he lost his job. Let us just say that the area where the program was held wasn't one where you'd find many educated or well-to-do people. Well, guess who was parked outside the building? Primerica and their recruiting brigade handing out business cards and enticing people with offers of making thousands!

I was snagged by a smooth talking rep who basically got in my face and threw around a bunch of claims about making tons of money, etc., etc. I didn't really want to give him my information but we felt that it wouldn't hurt to look into getting a job with them. Needless to say, the rep called me the next day and was very eager to set up a meeting with us. By that time I had changed my mind and so I very politely tried to decline his offer. He wouldn't take 'no' for an answer and surprisingly started becoming quite rude by saying "Well, why wouldn't you want to make thousands?". I said "Listen, we just think it is not right for us right now." He seemed to become angrier and then blew me off and hung up on me!

He actually had enough 'jewels' to call me 2 days later and left a message on voicemail. 1 week after that he called us, again another message. I cannot speak about Primerica's financial schemes or whether you should take advantage of their opportunities. I can tell you that the representatives I dealt with were aggressive and rude. They seem to target those low-income areas in order to hire people who may not know anything about the business and will just repeat verbatim from their "Primerica Handbook".

I would avoid these people and do research on a company with a more solid background. I would especially look for employment or business with a company whose representatives aren't rude and borderline psychotic. Thanks.
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#50 UPDATE Employee

Stuart & Leroy....

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

You believe what you want ... that's your choice, it's a free country as long as you pay our taxes ..but you're Both Wrong!

Stuart: If VUL is such a great investment ... why doesn't it qualify as an IRA (either traditional or Roth)?? huummmmm?? Could it be because you really don't own that money, the insurance company does, right ... ?? Since you don't own it & it can become part of the death benefit ... therefore it can not qualify as a retirement account.... true or false?? Don't know where you went to school ... But, I would really like to know so I can be sure to warn others not to send there kids there, too!!

And to Leroy: I did not say that Return of Premium is a "rip-off" as you said. I said it is just another ... "Gimmick" ... for the insurance companies to use our money to make a fortune with it & pay us a small guarantee. Anytime .... anyone ... accepts a guarantee in an investment ... it's a guaranteed loss. (Guaranteed never to surpass the effects of inflation & taxes.)

You two can argue all day as your opinions are just that .... opinions ... (just like arm pits & they both stink!) ... but not FACTS.

I challenge you both to do the research outside of the sheltered environment of your precious traditional insurance lives ... with your variable/flexable universal adjustable premium - life insurance (where nothing's guaranteed except the policy number) or your cheap term or return of premium term insurance.

Neither one of you have read Norman Dacey's book & are afraid to do so... (not to mention tons of books written from the 1800's up to NOW that are totally against "bundling" your savings with your life insurance. Afraid of the truth, so you just keep firing blanks away ... hoping to confuse enuff people into believing your lies. By your comments you're saying (reading between the lines) that the average consumer's not smart enough to "buy term & invest the difference", right??

As for the theory of decreasing responsibility it works! It's not fixed as you say... it says as your savings/investments go up your "need" for income protection goes down. If you go into business you may need term coverage to cover debt or start-up costs just for that business - (but most people work for someone else ... so really this doesn't apply) so that has nothing to do with income protection now does it? If a person accumulates $500,000 over a certain period of time they are self insured for that amount, meaning if the breadwinner dies that money, invested in a moderate account earning 10% would generate an annual income without touching the principal or $50,000 per year. (thats income replacement!)

Just because agents pay insurance companies money to get their term rates downloaded onto their computers so they can "mass market" over the internet or whatever, does not mean they actually sell very much of ... or any of it. As I have stated before, across the kitchen table ... we make house calls & we market term insurance 100% of the time, not as a loss leader the way you guys in the industry do!

Those companies have cheaper term as they can make a fortune off of cash value policies, so they can undersell with their term insurance but only when the client asks for term. BUT when those term rates begin to go up, that same company converts the term to cash value that's 7-10 times more expensive, thus leaving the unsuspecting clients over-premiumed and under-insured.

AND when they sell that so-called cheap term, they do not set up an IRA investement to invest the difference ... to become self insured. They know when that person gets an overdraft from their bank (cause the term premiums were set up as an automatic draft) & finds their premium have gone up ... they will quickly call that agent (if he hasn't moved to greener pastures with another company) & he will "convert" that term policy into the one with bells & whistles ... level premium & level coverage or VUL or a variation of that.

There's about 150 million cash value policies in force. It would take 2 -3 generations for our company ... to replace all of that if they stopped selling trash value policies today !

Since we only market term insurance 100% we must make a profit & compensate our field force for doing the right thing 100% of the time. Our policies have a conversion clause (without proof of insurability) just like whole life but it's for term insurance not cash value. We have no loss leaders. No bating & switching like the traditional cash value boys do...

Going back to interest rates (on loans) you say they are all that matter. Well someone listened to that crap ... was it from you? He bought his dream home, shopping the best interest rates, locally & on the internet & found it. Beat everyone out there ... or at least the places he checked. (I might add he did not use our services for the mortgage.) But in the course of working up his FNA, we discovered his low interest loan had a baloon payment in the last month of the 30th year for $160,000!

And you say interest rates are the most important. NOPE! They do play a factor, but it's the total time in debt & the amount of money spent to retire the loan. Again, you will give more opinions, (smelly armpits) but the facts are the facts. We accellerate the mortgage with bi-weekly payments & add extra to the principal from freed up money (from the FNA data) ... money they were already overspending in other areas to best accellerate the payoff. Other banks will refinance a loan, but do not show the client how to accelerate the payoff using the freed up cash.

And finally, my phone works 24 - 7 - 365 & so does my RVP's. We make house calls, where the traditional financial planner-type guy, expects you to leave work (losing pay & overtime) to come into his or her office & he certainly will Not give out his home phone number ... it's unlisted. I make house calls & I tell people to call me anytime ... day or nite ... 24 - 7 - 365. We put the person back into the equation...and as far as the internet is concerned... how personal (or confidential) is that anyway??

Finally, the internet is not regulated. So anyone can say anything about anyone without repercussions. I challenge anyone reading this ... do your own research from reputable sources that do get regulated by the NASD, the SEC & the State's Insurance Department. Go to Forbes, Money Magazine, Changing Times, Kiplingers, Wall Street Journal, Time, Newsweek, Best's Insurance Review, & Fortune magazine. Even Harvard & Yale are teaching Our business model to their business students, as the wave of the future. Go check it out... if you have the brass to do it that is ... and aren't afraid to admit you two have been lied to ... for how many years now???
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#51 UPDATE Employee

In favor of Primerica

AUTHOR: Edgar - (U.S.A.)

For those of you who are asking yourselves if Primerica is for you the simple answer is.
Go to an overview and figure it out for yourself. I have changed my life policy 3 times from Universal to Whole Life and now Term so places will be cheaper but overall read yur entire policy to see what you really have.
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#52 Consumer Comment

more primerica silliness

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

7. Gary talks about his agent who told him he would get both the death benefit and the cash value.....emphasizes this guy was "like a father to me"
<<<<< I can go ya one better gary.....I replaced a primerica term policy for a 61 year old gentleman who was told his policy would go on at the same prmeium forever.....he said the agent was "like a son to him".......IT WAS HIS SON!!!!!!! Not only did I replace the primerica term on dad, but I did on the son too. Half trained primerica newbies screw over people unintentionally.... but the client ends up just as screwed.

7. Gary says "Return of Premium term insurance is just another insurance company ripoff"....then he does an analysis which fails to mention the ONE KEY COMPARISON
<<<<< and that is, a MALE insured with primerica would to get back the same amount the Return of Premium policy will give him would have to find a mutual fund with NET EARNINGS of almost FOURTEEN PERCENT which are;
< guaranteed
< government insured
< TAX FREE
< not subject to stock market or interest rate fluctuations

There AREN'T ANY!!!!

A FEMALE buying term insurance from primerica would have to find an investment with the same qualities that would earn TWENTY-TWO PERCENT to equal her return with the Return of Premium policy.

The question gary, was why would someone buy PRIMERICA term versus a Return of Premium policy? It was not "how does return of premium term stack up to GOOD low cost term insurance".

8. gary talks about the effects of inflation on the purchasing power of the money comin back on Return of Premium term insurance
<<<< Is the money in a mutual fund not effected exactly the same? Are inflation rates higher for certain investments? Does the grocer say, "your bill is $83.44 unless you plan on paying it with money from your life policy...in that case it will be $92.81." The fact is Return of Premium term compares extremely well to overpriced primerica term insurnace. Someone investing the difference between the cost of primerica term and return of ptremium from a GOOD company would have to earn either 14% or 22% (depending on gender) with primerica to come out the same.

BY THE WAY.....the "just another insurance company ripoff" was primerica's initial reaction to the introduction of 30 year term insurance...then they started to sell it.
BY THE WAY...."just another insurance company ripoff" was how primerica used to catgorize variable annuities,,,then they started to sell them.
BY THE WAY....back in the beginning primerica used to bad mouth the stock market and only offered fixed interest investments....and then they started selling mutual funds.

9. Gary in his poorly conceived, pointless and deptively premised refrigerator analogy makes an unrealistic stock market performance assumption. The S&P 500 has returned little more than 8.4% SINCE ITS INCEPTION. Very few mutual funds have equalled or bettered the raw* return of the S&P 500. According to Morningstar ONLY four have averaged over 12% or better over the last 20 years. Why do people continue to use 12%?

10. gary calls me a name
<<
*- raw return.....the return before the effects of transaction expenses and taxation.
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#53 Consumer Comment

Gary stumbles again

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

1. Garys says "Its called the Cash Surrender value because you surrender it when you die?
<<<

Gary, (its called the CASH SURRENDER VALUE because its the amount the policyowner recieves if he surrenders (i.e. cancels) the policy.

2. gary brings up The THEORY of Decreasing Responsibility.
<<<< Like all THEORIES, this one makes sense on paper...however, its assumes someone will go all through life with no changes. Throw in a refinance of a mortgage, or a vacation home, or a business opportuinuity late in life and the THEORY of decraesing responsibility gets shot all to hell...which is what happens in 99% of the cases.

3. Gary says term insurance is not mass marketed.

<<
Gary, here is a question I asked you once before but you dodged,....answerr it this time;
If no one markets term life insurance then why can I purchase software that tracks the TERM LIFE rates of HUNDREDS OF COMPANIES and is updated every two weeks on the internet?????? Tell me gary, if no one is selling term life how does this company find agents willing to pay them a yearly fee for this service? C'mon gary, tell me.

4. gary says "we only roll high interest consumer debt into home loans"

<<< PRECISELY!!!!! For one thing you overcharge so much on your home loans that even car loans routinely beat the rate on your not-so-SMART loans. Secondly, if you're really interested in helping that client get out of credit card debt, why not counsel him to take advantage of the 0% credit card offers that come in? I have been doing that for years. I also rolled a car loan into a credit card that charges me 1.99% until the balance is paid off. Since you folks at primerica are so impressed whenever a media guru says something, I saw not one but TWO articles last week identifying low % offers as a great way to get out of debt quicker without tying up your home equity. However, if you did this you wouldn;t get those big fat loan commissions would ya Gary?
...p.s< I've seen an FNA, looks like the same thing I was doing 30 years ago except it now has stuff about mortgages.

5. gary asks 'If our products are so easily duplicated why are people still in debt?"
<<< List of primerica's products;

a. high cost term insurance......(100s of companies offer lower premium, same or better benefits)
b. loaded mutual funds......(these can be bought from literally 100,000s of other people)
c. not-so-SMART Home loans with a bi-weekly payment plan......(go to a hard money lender and get the same interest rate....then send them a payment check every two weeks or add 8.33% to each monthly payment...or simply make out one check for a 13th payment once a year and VOILA.....biweekly at too high an % rate has been duplicated)
d. credit counseling.......(stupidly roll your consumer debt into your home loan and VOILA...you have duplicated the advice you got from the newbie primerica rep)
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#54 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, is back

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Well Gary, you just love to snake your way onto Ripoff Report to spew your venom and lies. All you're doing is bringing further embarassment to Crimerica (you must be a double agent).

Quoting:

"You must die, but you don't get to keep the money unless your Will stipulates it gets put in your coffin!" Well duhhh Gary, people are smart enough to provide for their loved ones when it's time to go. So when the husband dies, the money goes to the wife (but you being the Crimerican you are, I wouldn't be surprised that you do have your money buried with you).

"And even if the average life expectancy is 80 years old, you're probably not leaving anyone behind that's dependant on your income as you've outlived them or they are now old enough they can take care of themselves, without relying on anyone else's income ... the need for insurance does not exist anymore." Gary from Wichita you just put your foot in your mouth again. It's well known that women outlive men any you're saying that husbands don't leave any dependents behind? (to the fat cats at Crimerica, don't you see that your whipping boy is embarassing you?).

"Stuart ... Since when does life insurance qualify as a retirement plan? Where did you pull that one out of ... ??" I can answer this one directly, but
whipping boy Gary will say I'm an enemy agent. So
I'll answer through Wikipedia who has no favoritism about life insurance. Quoting:

"Variable Universal Life Insurance (often shortened to VUL) is a type of life insurance, that builds a cash value. In a VUL, the cash value can be invested in a wide variety of separate accounts, similar to mutual funds, and the choice of which of the available separate accounts to use is entirely up to the contract owner. The 'variable' component in the name refers to this ability to invest in volatile investments similar to mutual funds. The 'universal' component in the name is a bit of a misnomer that is used to refer to the flexibility the owner has in making premium payments. The premiums can vary from nothing in a given month up to maximums defined by the IRS code for life insurance. This flexibility is in contrast to whole life insurance that has fixed premium payments that typically cannot be missed without lapsing the policy.

Variable universal life is also considered to a type of permanent life insurance, because the death benefit will be paid if the insured dies any time up until the endowment age (typically 100) as long as there is sufficient cash value to pay the costs of insurance in the policy."

It's time for your refresher Gary:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

PS To the fat cats, keep sending Gary. I'm enjoying this.
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#55 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, is back

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Well Gary, you just love to snake your way onto Ripoff Report to spew your venom and lies. All you're doing is bringing further embarassment to Crimerica (you must be a double agent).

Quoting:

"You must die, but you don't get to keep the money unless your Will stipulates it gets put in your coffin!" Well duhhh Gary, people are smart enough to provide for their loved ones when it's time to go. So when the husband dies, the money goes to the wife (but you being the Crimerican you are, I wouldn't be surprised that you do have your money buried with you).

"And even if the average life expectancy is 80 years old, you're probably not leaving anyone behind that's dependant on your income as you've outlived them or they are now old enough they can take care of themselves, without relying on anyone else's income ... the need for insurance does not exist anymore." Gary from Wichita you just put your foot in your mouth again. It's well known that women outlive men any you're saying that husbands don't leave any dependents behind? (to the fat cats at Crimerica, don't you see that your whipping boy is embarassing you?).

"Stuart ... Since when does life insurance qualify as a retirement plan? Where did you pull that one out of ... ??" I can answer this one directly, but
whipping boy Gary will say I'm an enemy agent. So
I'll answer through Wikipedia who has no favoritism about life insurance. Quoting:

"Variable Universal Life Insurance (often shortened to VUL) is a type of life insurance, that builds a cash value. In a VUL, the cash value can be invested in a wide variety of separate accounts, similar to mutual funds, and the choice of which of the available separate accounts to use is entirely up to the contract owner. The 'variable' component in the name refers to this ability to invest in volatile investments similar to mutual funds. The 'universal' component in the name is a bit of a misnomer that is used to refer to the flexibility the owner has in making premium payments. The premiums can vary from nothing in a given month up to maximums defined by the IRS code for life insurance. This flexibility is in contrast to whole life insurance that has fixed premium payments that typically cannot be missed without lapsing the policy.

Variable universal life is also considered to a type of permanent life insurance, because the death benefit will be paid if the insured dies any time up until the endowment age (typically 100) as long as there is sufficient cash value to pay the costs of insurance in the policy."

It's time for your refresher Gary:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

PS To the fat cats, keep sending Gary. I'm enjoying this.
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#56 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, is back

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Well Gary, you just love to snake your way onto Ripoff Report to spew your venom and lies. All you're doing is bringing further embarassment to Crimerica (you must be a double agent).

Quoting:

"You must die, but you don't get to keep the money unless your Will stipulates it gets put in your coffin!" Well duhhh Gary, people are smart enough to provide for their loved ones when it's time to go. So when the husband dies, the money goes to the wife (but you being the Crimerican you are, I wouldn't be surprised that you do have your money buried with you).

"And even if the average life expectancy is 80 years old, you're probably not leaving anyone behind that's dependant on your income as you've outlived them or they are now old enough they can take care of themselves, without relying on anyone else's income ... the need for insurance does not exist anymore." Gary from Wichita you just put your foot in your mouth again. It's well known that women outlive men any you're saying that husbands don't leave any dependents behind? (to the fat cats at Crimerica, don't you see that your whipping boy is embarassing you?).

"Stuart ... Since when does life insurance qualify as a retirement plan? Where did you pull that one out of ... ??" I can answer this one directly, but
whipping boy Gary will say I'm an enemy agent. So
I'll answer through Wikipedia who has no favoritism about life insurance. Quoting:

"Variable Universal Life Insurance (often shortened to VUL) is a type of life insurance, that builds a cash value. In a VUL, the cash value can be invested in a wide variety of separate accounts, similar to mutual funds, and the choice of which of the available separate accounts to use is entirely up to the contract owner. The 'variable' component in the name refers to this ability to invest in volatile investments similar to mutual funds. The 'universal' component in the name is a bit of a misnomer that is used to refer to the flexibility the owner has in making premium payments. The premiums can vary from nothing in a given month up to maximums defined by the IRS code for life insurance. This flexibility is in contrast to whole life insurance that has fixed premium payments that typically cannot be missed without lapsing the policy.

Variable universal life is also considered to a type of permanent life insurance, because the death benefit will be paid if the insured dies any time up until the endowment age (typically 100) as long as there is sufficient cash value to pay the costs of insurance in the policy."

It's time for your refresher Gary:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

PS To the fat cats, keep sending Gary. I'm enjoying this.
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#57 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Crimerica's favorite whipping boy, Gary, is back

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Well Gary, you just love to snake your way onto Ripoff Report to spew your venom and lies. All you're doing is bringing further embarassment to Crimerica (you must be a double agent).

Quoting:

"You must die, but you don't get to keep the money unless your Will stipulates it gets put in your coffin!" Well duhhh Gary, people are smart enough to provide for their loved ones when it's time to go. So when the husband dies, the money goes to the wife (but you being the Crimerican you are, I wouldn't be surprised that you do have your money buried with you).

"And even if the average life expectancy is 80 years old, you're probably not leaving anyone behind that's dependant on your income as you've outlived them or they are now old enough they can take care of themselves, without relying on anyone else's income ... the need for insurance does not exist anymore." Gary from Wichita you just put your foot in your mouth again. It's well known that women outlive men any you're saying that husbands don't leave any dependents behind? (to the fat cats at Crimerica, don't you see that your whipping boy is embarassing you?).

"Stuart ... Since when does life insurance qualify as a retirement plan? Where did you pull that one out of ... ??" I can answer this one directly, but
whipping boy Gary will say I'm an enemy agent. So
I'll answer through Wikipedia who has no favoritism about life insurance. Quoting:

"Variable Universal Life Insurance (often shortened to VUL) is a type of life insurance, that builds a cash value. In a VUL, the cash value can be invested in a wide variety of separate accounts, similar to mutual funds, and the choice of which of the available separate accounts to use is entirely up to the contract owner. The 'variable' component in the name refers to this ability to invest in volatile investments similar to mutual funds. The 'universal' component in the name is a bit of a misnomer that is used to refer to the flexibility the owner has in making premium payments. The premiums can vary from nothing in a given month up to maximums defined by the IRS code for life insurance. This flexibility is in contrast to whole life insurance that has fixed premium payments that typically cannot be missed without lapsing the policy.

Variable universal life is also considered to a type of permanent life insurance, because the death benefit will be paid if the insured dies any time up until the endowment age (typically 100) as long as there is sufficient cash value to pay the costs of insurance in the policy."

It's time for your refresher Gary:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

PS To the fat cats, keep sending Gary. I'm enjoying this.
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#58 UPDATE Employee

Right Back at Stuart Again....

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

I see you're burning the midnite oil ...as the date of your last comments were logged in at 2:17 AM today.

"But Gary does such a poor job of it I think he's really a double agent working for the competition." AND "I'll now properly address another statement by Gary who said on 7/7 "I am not your whipping boy... as you keep saying I am." I never said that Gary, furthermore you know that can't be true for the simple reason that you're already Crimerica's whipping boy. At the snap of a fat cat's finger, you come trolling down to Ripoff Report to attempt your shilling which always backfires on you and Crimerica. You might as well sell that term insurance policy for what it really is, toilet paper, as it's essentially useless for retirement
purposes as the overwhelming number of policyholders outlive the policy and get no payout benefit."

I work with the Opposition (PFS) that opposses you the competition. But no one out there is really competing with us across middle income America's kitchen tables. Ok, granted you personally may not have said, "I'm your whipping boy" but anyone with average intelligence or above can read between the lines. Everytime you use the term "Crimerica" you're showing your true intelligence rates somewhere between a 10 & that of a slug.

And I come here to rebutt the lies & half truths from you, Jay, Leroy & a few others, (not at the snap of some fat-cats fingers ... unless you're that "fat-cat!") who seems to have put their 2-cents worth in on every thread in almost all of the different sites here & elsewhere. There are posts here from people who have been approached by PFS & have had a bad experience, thinking they're getting a "job" interview ... then feel let down when it's not. (Poor babies!) But the majority of responses come from people like you & Leroy agreeing with but not rebutting those people who say they've been mislead. We have the cleanest record for compliance in the industry... go check it out. Are we perfect? Nope! Only God can claim that & even He made the seed in the Mango to big ... plus He really messed up with Noah & that big flood but He was the first to admit it! We have a rainbow to remind us! (Now you'll say I'm childish ... well if you can't laugh about somethings ... you must live a very boring - stagnant life.)

Stuart ... Since when does life insurance qualify as a retirement plan? Where did you pull that one out of ... ?? What two things do you have to do to collect the face amount of any standard whole life policy? One: You must die, but you don't get to keep the money unless your Will stipulates it gets put in your coffin! And Second: live to be 100 years old (95 years old in Texas!) when your cash in the cash surrender values equals the death benefit ... cause at that attained age you are (for insurance purposes, anyway) ... legally dead! And even if the average life expectancy is 80 years old, you're probably not leaving anyone behind that's dependant on your income as you've outlived them or they are now old enough they can take care of themselves, without relying on anyone else's income ... the need for insurance does not exist anymore. When you took your exam (I assume you have a life & health license) didn't you study that? Or have you conveniently forgotten??? Life insurance for all intents & purposes should be called Income Replacement Insurance or Death Insurance. But no one wants to talk about dying but they like to talk about making money. Therefore, once again in the Traditional Industry that's how it gets sold ... as an investment. Which leads us back to the same 4-Funny Banking Rules. And they're not very funny.

OH yeah, you didn't ask about Refrigerator A & Refrigerator B! (from my last posting here) What does that have to do with Life Insurance ... you may have wanted to ask? (But were afraid too!) Lets see:

"REFRIGERATOR - A (with automatic ice-maker)" costs $2,000 & has a 24 year warranty & at the end of 24 years you get your $2,000 back. (Kinda like Leroy's recommendation for Term Insurance with Return of Premium or a Traditional Whole Life Policy) You get the use of that refrigerator for 24 years ....(if it breaks down the warranty will fix or replace it) and at the end of 24 years (after the warranty has expired) the manufacturer gives back the original $2,000. So you get the use of the refrigerator for 24 years ... get to keep the old fridge if it's still working ... AND your money back! Sounds great so far ... doesn't it? But there's a catch .... !

"REFRIGERATOR - B" (Exactly the same make & model as Refrigerator A - with the automatic ice-maker) But this one only costs $1,000! It has the same 24 year repair or replacement warranty as refrigerator A ... but you do not get any money back at the end of 24 years. (still get to keep the old fridge!)

Now I ask, which refrigerator would the average person choose ... A or B? This is not a trick question!

If they're like I was, before I got an education on how money works ... I would have chosen Refrigerator A & isn't that what most people would do?? ... (unless they just could not afford the $2,000) I would get a free fridge & $2,000 to go buy a new one....!

But lets say I own the company selling those same fridges. I sell you (in essense) a $1,000 fridge for $2,000 & overcharge you by $1,000. Now here's where a rule comes in ... called the Rule of 72. It has to do with compound interest. Divide the interest rate into the number 72 & it will tell you how many years it takes for your money to double or compound on an annual basis. Now I (the fridge company) invests that money over the long haul (24 years) & lets say because we do a ton of business ... can hire a brokerage firm to help us average a 12% return on that $1,000. Twelve goes into 72 ... 6 times ... so that money will double every 6 years. Heres how it looks:

In 6 years that $1,000 has doubled to $2,000!

After 12 years that $1,000 has doubled again to $4,000!

In 18 years that original $1,000 has doubled to $8,000!

Finally after 24 years that money has doubled again to $16,000!

The phone rings at my store ... the fridge's compressor just exploded & the fridge died & went to fridge heaven. I say, that's OK, I'll mail you the check today for that $2,000 we promised ... haul off the old one & you can go buy a new one. My company just made an additional $14,000 profit off of that $1,000. (the company also made a small profit off of the original price of the fridge, too! But that's a given.)

Now again I ask: Which refrigerator would most people buy ... if they knew about the Rule of 72?? DUH!!! Money does not add up ... it multiplies ... in an investment it's working 24 - 7 - 365 for someone - somewhere ... it doesn't whine or complain ... or call in sick!) With refrigerator B they would have $16,000 cash!

Of course the next question is ... where can one get those kind of returns. They have been available over the long haul ... since 1928 but no one has taken that concept to people and explained it across kitchen tables until A L Williams (later changing their name to Primerica Financial Services to match their parent company's name Primerica ** ) began marketing buy term AND invest the difference.


** then Primerica thru mergers became Traveler's Group & then Citigroup. But we still retained our PFS name but got to keep the Traveler's red umbrella logo.
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#59 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Adding to Maryjo (Columbus)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Back on 7/7 I've said this:

"But Gary does such a poor job of it I think he's really a double agent working for the competition." Maryjo confirmed my belief." when she said "The Rip-off report has saved me time and gas money and maybe $199.00. I have carefully read most of the entries here and that's why I called to cancel my appointment. Thanks, again, Gary. Your arguments were the deciding factor." (thanks for your post Maryjo).

I'll now properly address another statement by Gary who said on 7/7 "I am not your whipping boy... as you keep saying I am." I never said that Gary, furthermore you know that can't be true for the simple reason that you're already Crimerica's whipping boy. At the snap of a fat cat's finger, you come trolling down to Ripoff Report to attempt your shilling which always backfires on you and Crimerica. You might as well sell that term insurance policy for what it really is, toilet paper, as it's essentially useless for retirement
purposes as the overwhelming number of policyholders outlive the policy and get no payout benefit.

I await your reply.
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#60 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Adding to Maryjo (Columbus)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Back on 7/7 I've said this:

"But Gary does such a poor job of it I think he's really a double agent working for the competition." Maryjo confirmed my belief." when she said "The Rip-off report has saved me time and gas money and maybe $199.00. I have carefully read most of the entries here and that's why I called to cancel my appointment. Thanks, again, Gary. Your arguments were the deciding factor." (thanks for your post Maryjo).

I'll now properly address another statement by Gary who said on 7/7 "I am not your whipping boy... as you keep saying I am." I never said that Gary, furthermore you know that can't be true for the simple reason that you're already Crimerica's whipping boy. At the snap of a fat cat's finger, you come trolling down to Ripoff Report to attempt your shilling which always backfires on you and Crimerica. You might as well sell that term insurance policy for what it really is, toilet paper, as it's essentially useless for retirement
purposes as the overwhelming number of policyholders outlive the policy and get no payout benefit.

I await your reply.
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#61 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Adding to Maryjo (Columbus)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Back on 7/7 I've said this:

"But Gary does such a poor job of it I think he's really a double agent working for the competition." Maryjo confirmed my belief." when she said "The Rip-off report has saved me time and gas money and maybe $199.00. I have carefully read most of the entries here and that's why I called to cancel my appointment. Thanks, again, Gary. Your arguments were the deciding factor." (thanks for your post Maryjo).

I'll now properly address another statement by Gary who said on 7/7 "I am not your whipping boy... as you keep saying I am." I never said that Gary, furthermore you know that can't be true for the simple reason that you're already Crimerica's whipping boy. At the snap of a fat cat's finger, you come trolling down to Ripoff Report to attempt your shilling which always backfires on you and Crimerica. You might as well sell that term insurance policy for what it really is, toilet paper, as it's essentially useless for retirement
purposes as the overwhelming number of policyholders outlive the policy and get no payout benefit.

I await your reply.
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#62 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Adding to Maryjo (Columbus)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Back on 7/7 I've said this:

"But Gary does such a poor job of it I think he's really a double agent working for the competition." Maryjo confirmed my belief." when she said "The Rip-off report has saved me time and gas money and maybe $199.00. I have carefully read most of the entries here and that's why I called to cancel my appointment. Thanks, again, Gary. Your arguments were the deciding factor." (thanks for your post Maryjo).

I'll now properly address another statement by Gary who said on 7/7 "I am not your whipping boy... as you keep saying I am." I never said that Gary, furthermore you know that can't be true for the simple reason that you're already Crimerica's whipping boy. At the snap of a fat cat's finger, you come trolling down to Ripoff Report to attempt your shilling which always backfires on you and Crimerica. You might as well sell that term insurance policy for what it really is, toilet paper, as it's essentially useless for retirement
purposes as the overwhelming number of policyholders outlive the policy and get no payout benefit.

I await your reply.
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#63 UPDATE Employee

Stuart - Leroy & Jay

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Looks like I really stirred up the nest of hornets on my last post... that I actually got all of the Three Stooges to comment ... Larry - Moe & Curley Joe! (Leroy, Jay & Stuart)

Just a few rebuttals, will try not to write a book....

Stuart said: "First Crimerica only does term insurance which always expire and isn't primarily designed to be as life insurance since the average age a person lives to is 80 (another way of putting this is most clients outlive the term policies). Second Crimerica's term insurance is very expensive ..." - AND - "Complying with Do-Not-Call (DNC) laws is no longer an option for independent business owners...it is a REQUIREMENT!

That's Primerica not Crimerica... you must a defective keyboard. Have you never heard of buy term AND invest the difference or the Theory of Decreasing Responsibility?? Insurance is temporary, once your out of debt, the kids are grown & you have a nest egg to retire on, life insurance is not necessary any longer. (as you're self insured) You can get a much better return outside of the whole life policy than within it. Term insurance is there when you need it the most, young - married, young kids, mortgage & lots of debt ... pre-mature death & loss of income would be devastating to the surviving spouse. Ours is not expensive compared to whole life which is 7-10 times more expensive. You may have term rates that beat ours but it's not getting mass marketed. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion ... now would we? Haven't done your homework: Read - "What's Wrong With Your Life Insurance" by Norman Dacey. AND - As for the do not call list, we use the same system you listed & also have a do-not-call listing on our POL website that we must check before making any calls, cold or otherwise.

Jay said: "this a.l. williams puppeteer keeps repeating the same ole lies. does this used car salesman in a cheap suit have no shame?"

When you can't debate .... you just call me names is that it? Evidently you're not insurance licensed or have not completed any continueing education. Haven't stepped out of your "box" to seek the truth ... yet ... have you?

Leroy had a lot to say: "Rolling consumer debt into your home loan is considered a no-no by virtually every financial planner in the business or in the media, but its what primerica does every day." - AND - "Their products are easily duplicated in any of a number of areas and one can ALWAYS find more cost efficient products." - AND - "every financial plan they come up with is the same. They just leave blank spaces to fill in the names and the numbers." - AND - "Okay gary. lets go over the Four Lies about whole life yet again!!!

AND - "Gary says a whole life agent told him he would get both cash value and death benefit in 1980, so he concludes the entire industry is crooked like this guy ... "

AND finally: "RETURN OF PREMIUM term.

We only roll high interest unsecured debt into the refinanced mortgage loans, not low interest consumer loans. Those we debt-stack with the freed up money thru the refinance & the Financial Needs Analysis (FNA) It's amazing how an expert (former drip under pressure) such as yourself, can talk about something he's never seen. The software used to complete the FNA's are not "cookie cutter." Citigroup invested over $110 million in the software so that it would be customized, confidential & complimentary. It was the brain child of our now retired President - Joe Plumeri, who wanted to use one similar to it when he was with American Express. (but they only work with the upper class - 5% of the population & weren't interested in helping the middle class.) So if our products are easily duplicated how come so many people are up to their eyeballs in debt, filing for bankruptcy, not saving enough for retirement & either have the wrong life insurance or none at all??? I believe it's from people like you that get people so confused they don't know where to go or what to do ... so they just don't do anything at all. That's sad, very - very - sad!

The four funny banking rules still apply Leroy to all of those 150 milllion or so - standard / traditional whole policies that are still in force out there:

1. No money in the cash values from 1-4 years.

2. Very poor rate of return 1-4% (NEY) which does not keep up with inflation or taxes AND if they make more than the gurarantee, it becomes part of the death benefit anyway at death so ... yes ... they lose the savings! They do not get both (that's how its sold as an investment) ! Have you ever heard of refrigerator A & refrigerator B?

3. Have to borrow to get money from the policy. Yes, it was your own money (to begin with), but you don't own it anymore ... that's why you have to borrow it. They use the Cash Value as collateral for the loan. I've said this over & over again, but you don't read. And the unpaid loan reduces the death benefit until it's repaid.

4. Yes, you lose the savings upon death ... it gets applied to the death benefit. That's why it's called the Cash "Surrender" Value. You surrender the policy, no death occurred, you get the cash values (overcharge for the term insurance) but no death benefit. But if you die, you surrender the cash to the company so they can pay the death claim. I've also seen policies recently ... where if you're not paying enough premium to pay for the insurance, the company withdraws from the cash surrender values - plus interest - to cover the higher costs (in the form of a policy loan) & when the cash is depleted the owner gets a nice letter saying their policy is about to lapse, they have no cash in it. So much for "permanent" insurance. Then the company requires an exhorbitant amount of money to keep that policy in force for another year! If you say that does not happen then you truely live in the basement with your mother!

Yes, Leroy that whole life agent that told me I would get both the cash values & the death benefit ... lied to me. I trusted him as he was like a father figure to me... an old Army buddy of my Dad (now both deceased) I did not do my own research on the subject ... just like the average Joe. I just took him at his word. When I replaced my Whole Life with Term, he did call me & say that he had term rates that would beat ALW. (If he had cheaper term, why didn't he offer or encourage me to purchase it instead of whole life?) For the same premium I could have had $250,000 coverage instead of less than $30,000! I believe there are a lot of good agents out there that strive to help people, but they believe what their company's tell them is gospel & they go out & rip people off. But there's also enough unscrupulous agents that the good guys in that industry ... don't really have a chance. You also must know that back in 1980 the industry was not required by law to have very much continuing education as they do now. Here is was 15 hrs within 5-years of getting licensed ... life-time ... now it's 12-hrs Life & Health, plus 12 hours for P & C every 2-years.

Finally the myth of "return of premium term" ... just another gimmick for the insurance company to use our money & make a fortune off of it ... just to pay us back the premium we paid in - $27,900, right? A guarantee is always a guaranteed loss as it does not keep up with inflation & taxes. Lets see ... if the insurance company invests that $485 at what the market's been averaging over the long haul they would make about $40,385. They keep the profits... $12,485, but it was your money ... doesn't it make sense to put that money where they put it? AND ... Factoring in the inflation factor to that $27,900 at 4% average per year ... the purchasing power after 20 years would be diminished cumulatively by what - 80%??

And to Maryjo - Columbus, Ohio.

If the internet or my comments made you decide not to go to that interview then so be it. We do not have to beg people to join. This is not a job, but an opportunity to be in business for yourself but not by yourself. If your job or current career will get you what you want out of life, great! This is an opportunity to go into management & we give anyone with desire & a willingness to work & learn that chance. We don't look at college degrees or IQ tests. Unless you specialize ... a degree in business from a University isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Oh, sure it will get you a job, maybe even a high paying one, but for how long? Those days of job security & retiring on a pension are long gone. When I finished school an engineer would change jobs 2-3 times in his or her lifetime ... now its about every 3-5 years! I decided to get out of that rat race & I'm glad I did.
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#64 Consumer Comment

Thanx, Gary

AUTHOR: Maryjo - (U.S.A.)

Thank you Gary and all others. I, too, received a call for an interview. My resume "came across" this individuals desk. The position was a management position and I seemed like exactly the type of manager they were looking for. The name Primerica was spoken. I was given an address, a time and date for my interview. Thank the Lord I jumped on the internet to investigate. The Rip-off report has saved me time and gas money and maybe $199.00. I have carefully read most of the entries here and that's why I called to cancel my appointment. Thanks, again, Gary. Your arguments were the deciding factor.
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#65 Consumer Comment

Primerica gives Free advice? hardlty!

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Gary says primerica will put together a comprehensive plan for you for free. I say is not only not free, its the most expensive advice you'll ever get.

In my previous post I demonstrated that primerica would charge a 40 year old male an extra $5380 in premium over 20 years. Thats the raw overcharge. If you calculate the lost opportunity cost of that money...which is the amount it would have totalled to if you invested that extra $269 per year at a reasonable 8% expected rate of return...it comes to a cost of $12,516. If you use the ridiculous 12% expected rate of return primerica newbies are taught to use, its $21,725. That amount of money would buy a lot of hours with an attorney or accountant.

Now if you get into their ridiculously expensive loans, you will end up paying a small fortune for the "fre advice" you get from your primerica part-timer. Primerica charges about 1.5-1.75% more interest to a consumer than he could qualify for with the identical credit score on the open marketplace, (don't even argue about those figures primericans...you know they true). On a loan of $250,000 that is a HUGE amount of extra interest to pay.

The difference in the payment per month is $255, (using a difference of 1.625%). Even if choose a pay bi-weekly payment plan you would pay primerica $68,595 more in interest over the 22 years and 5 months it would take to pay off your mortgage.

If you made the same payment to your 6% lender that primerica wants you to make on their 7.625% loan, you would shorten your payment period by 46 months compared to primerica. That means you would save $87,124 (EIGHTY SEVEN THOUSAND.)

How free does that advice the primerica rep gives you about "interest rates don't matter" look now?

Now we make the LOST OPPORTUNITY COST CALCULATION. Between the primerica's overcharge of premium on the life insurance and overcharge in interest rates you would have $277 LESS to invest each and every month. If you assume an expected rate of return of a reasonable 8% that means over 269 months primerica would cost you
$201,638. (TWO HUNDRED ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS).
That means for the primerica rep to help this poor middle class person break even with the cost to do business with primerica the part-time investment guru primerica sends out must find a an investment that will average almost 16% poer year. How many of those are out there..........ZERO>

The FREE advice primerica gives you ain't free....it has a cost and its HUGE. He'll never calculate it for you. 99.9% of them wouldn't even know how...and those that would have come to the cybnical realization that if they told you they wouldn't make a sale.
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#66 Consumer Comment

speaking of expensive insurance

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

The Insurance Information Institute says the annual premium for a 40 year old nonsmoking male, STANDARD risk will be $641 in 2006. primerica is $910 for this person, a $269 yearly difference (42%). What does primerica give you for the extra 42% in premium, which totals $5,380 over 20 years.
The answer is "NUTHIN".

You can get the same guarantees, the same terminal illness riders, the same waiver of premiums, the same waiver of second policy fee with other HIGHER rated companies and come out $5,380 ahead.

IN ADDITION with the other companies you can convert your term to a cash value product regardless of any change you have had in health.
You may never need it, you may never want it, but its there. Primerica doesn't have that conversion option yet charges $269 more per year.

So why would you pay primerica 42% more premium for a less flexible plan? The primerica rep has been taught to say "price only matters in the absence of value". In this case we have an absence of value by primerica (no conversion option) yet they charge 42% more!!!! Its a no-brainer. Only a no-brainer would knowingly buy primerica term insurance.

We can take the ABSENCE OF VALUE theory one step further. This same male could purchase RETURN OF PREMIUM term insurance for an additional $485 per year more than primerica would charge him.
In 20 years this person would recieve a check for $27,900 which is;
1. guaranteed
2. government insured
3. TAX FREE
4. unaffected by any changes in the interest rate or stock markets during the 20 years.

For primerica and its ABSENCE of VALUE to equal that it would have to be able to invest your money at 13.42% AFTER EXPENSES over 20 years. How many investments are there which have paid 13.42% over 20 years and have all qualities listed above. The answer.......ZERO!!!!!

Since primerica is the only company I know of who doesn't charge women a lower rate than men primerica would have to produce a return of over 22% on the difference to equal what she would get back with RETURN OF PREMIUM term.

Now tell me.....who demonstrates the Absence of Value?
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#67 Consumer Comment

Gary...how many times repeat same lies..sheesh

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Okay gary. lets go over the Four Lies about whole life yet again!!!


Rule #1. No cash value for a long time
<<<
Rule #2. Poor return.
<<< I have shown repeatedly that the return on a traditional whole life cash value policy I sold 20+ years ago is 5.38% Not a bad return for for a GOVERNMENT GUARANTEED account. Not everything should be in the stock market. Do I recommend whole life as a way to save for retirement? NO, I don't believe its a good way. However, some liked the forced savings part of it, (just like GARY and other primericans have said the forced savings in a biweekly mortgage plan is important to the client because they need the outside discipline). The old crap about policies making 1-2% is on traditional non-participating whole life policies. The only place these are sold anymore is in the burial market where the cash values aren't a consideration...only a permanent death benefit.

Rule #3- You have to borrow your own money
<<<< NO YOU DON'T!!!!!!!!!!! I've told you this 30 times already and you're just too intellectually lazy to check it out for yourself. You DON'T BORROW YOUR OWN MONEY. The insurance company sends you THEIR money. Your money is held as collateral and continues to draw interest.....often times the exact same interest the company is charging for thier money. I swear if I ever have another confrontation with some newbie primerica rep (like gary, only 20 years in the biz and still doesn't know this) and they say this to my client I will personally file a compalint with Dept of Insurance.

Rule #4- The cash value gets swallowed up at death.
<<<< NOT necessarily, however, if it does its because the client wanted the lowest possible premium for a level death benefit and doesn't give a rip about the cash values. Many people don't gary...they don't give a d**n what the cash values are or what they will be or what they could have been....all they want is a death benefit to be in force at death.

Whole life has always been nothing more than decreasing term insurance on top of a cash reserve. Its BTID in one package. Seems like a twenty year vet (as you claim to be) would understand that by now.

If the client cares they can choose option B to have both the death benefit and cash values, or they can choose Paid up Additions as the dividend option. Contrary to primerica myth, which gary repeats for them, paid up additions does not cost the client a extra single penny...EVER!!!!


5. Commissions..........If a client says they will only commit a certain amount to purchase life insurance....the COMMISSION TO THE AGENT WILL BE ABOUT THE SAME REGARDLESS OF WHETHER CLIENT GOES WITH CASH VALUE OR TERM INSURANCE!!!! It is not in the agent's financial interest to force whole life on the client. In fact, the commissions on term are somewhat higher than on whole life, especially if its a New York whole life compnay. You claim this is bull but how do you know since you don't sell cash value insurance? All you have is primerica's word for it and we have already seen they have lied to you about many other things.

6. Its not interest rates that matter, but time in debt that matters
<<<< This is what Jack Guttenburg says a mortgage scammer will say. Its in his book about getting a good mortgage. The ineterst rate is ALWAYS the most important because any payment plan any company has can be duplicated elsewhere. If a certain payment plan will have you out of debt in 24 years at 7.5% then the same payment will have you out of debt in 20 years at 6.0% OR, will have you out of debt in the same 24 years but with a lower monthly payment.

"Intererst doesn't matter only time in debt matters" is what a greedy corporation says to the gullible so they can suck an extra $100,000 in interest out of him over 24 years.

7. Having one person be your life guy, tax guy, attorney, investment guy, loan guy, etc......
<<<< Actually it might be okay IF THAT ONE PERSON
WAS ABLE TO ACCESS THE ENTIRE MARKETPLACE. However when the one guy is a jack-of-all trades master-of-none primerica newbie with one line of overpriced products to sell then its a recipe for financial disaster.

8. Life insurance is only for income replacement.
<<<<< Says who? Income replacement is surely one of the key reasons to own life insurance, but its not the only reason. To say there is one reason only is just plain stupid.

9. Debt stacking
<<<< Evetry financial planner, whether in practice or in the media scorns piling short term consumer debt into long term home equity debt....yet that is what primerica does every day. They like to quote people like Suze Orman and dave ramsey about term insurance, then ignore what they say about debt stacking and buying loaded mutual funds like primerica sells.

10. Dividends are just a refund of overcharge of premium
<<<<<< We've had this discussion before but here it goes again;
YEAH? SO WHAT??????? When a stockholder in General Electric gets a dividend check what is it other than the overcharge GE made to its clients?
This also known as THE PROFIT!!!!!
In the case of cash value insurance from a dividend company there are NO STOCKHOLDERS. The dividend represents the PROFIT the company made and it is returned to the policyholder in the form of a dividend.11. gary talked about some WIDOWS study that the industry was too embarrassed to release yet he, a lowly primerica rep, not even an RVP, magically knows about it. My guess is its like the mythical pyramid scheme State Farm was gonna do.....a total fabrication by primerica told to its reps who repeat it.

12 Average industry claim is $30,000 whereas primerica's is $200,000.
<<<< WELL DUH!!!!! lets look at why this might be. MOST CLAIMS are on elderly clients who have whole life policies issued DECADES AGO!!!!! This $30,000 doesn't take into account someone who might have more than 1 policy. Term insurance policies get dropped when people get older...too much premium. Only cash value policies remain in force.

Primerica's clients were sold only term insurance and are younger than whole life owners. Primerica's traget market has never been older people.

Here is a stat for ya gary....you say primerica's average death claim is $200,000? Thats UNDER the industry average for term insurance. Its $243,000. My guess is primerica's average death claim is $43,000 LOWER because their term insurance is so OVERPRICED the average Joe can't afford $243,000 of it. Does $43,000 less death benefit make a difference to that poor middle class widow primerica says its out to help? d**n right it does!

This phony stat Gary is repeating reminds me of one primerica used to use....."We have the lowest cost in the industry per $1,000 of death benefit issued" That looked good until you realized they don't sell cash value insurance and their premiums were 30% higher than everyone else for the same term insurance. If one dealership sells $35,000 SUVs and $12,000 Dodge Neons, are you going to buy a Dodge Neon for $17,000 from the dealer down the street who only sells Dodge Neons and therefore has a lower average cost per vehicle? Of course not. Only a primerica rep would be that stupid.

13. Gary says a whole life agent told him he would get both cash value and death benefir in 1980, so he concludes the entire industry is crooked like this guy
<<<< I could write a book of stupid, inaccurate and decietful statemnets I have heard primericans say, and devote an entire chapter just to Gary. Below are just a few samples with my remarks in parentheses;


a. you have to borrow your own money (scroll up to number #3)
b. you don't need life insurance for estate taxes because all you have to do is make sure not to give any one person more than $1 million. (the amount individual beneficaries recieve has absolutely NOTHING to do with how estate tax is calculated)
c. A primerica rep can deduct the cost of his business suits. (tell your friendly IRS auditor this)
d. If a client has paid up additions as his dividend option the agent gets a new commission each year. (this is a gary stupidity...the agent gets NO extra commission..not one red cent)
e. Only primerica has Terminal Illness Rider (many many companies do)
f. only primerica doesn't make a seperate charge for terminal illness riders (NONE who offer it show a separate charge)
g. only primerica will waive the policy fee on the spouse when both buy insurance (many companies do but more importantly, even the ones who don't are STILL LOWER in premium than primerica)
h. Diabetics can't get insurance anywhere (several companies will now issue term insurance on diabetics at preferred rates as long as their blood sugars are under control)

Thats enough for now.

I'm beginning to think gary is the creation of primerica home office...(we know they monitor this board)...and they just have the mythical gary repeat the same old primerica crap so it appears all over on the board.

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#68 Consumer Comment

Gary...how many times repeat same lies..sheesh

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Okay gary. lets go over the Four Lies about whole life yet again!!!


Rule #1. No cash value for a long time
<<<
Rule #2. Poor return.
<<< I have shown repeatedly that the return on a traditional whole life cash value policy I sold 20+ years ago is 5.38% Not a bad return for for a GOVERNMENT GUARANTEED account. Not everything should be in the stock market. Do I recommend whole life as a way to save for retirement? NO, I don't believe its a good way. However, some liked the forced savings part of it, (just like GARY and other primericans have said the forced savings in a biweekly mortgage plan is important to the client because they need the outside discipline). The old crap about policies making 1-2% is on traditional non-participating whole life policies. The only place these are sold anymore is in the burial market where the cash values aren't a consideration...only a permanent death benefit.

Rule #3- You have to borrow your own money
<<<< NO YOU DON'T!!!!!!!!!!! I've told you this 30 times already and you're just too intellectually lazy to check it out for yourself. You DON'T BORROW YOUR OWN MONEY. The insurance company sends you THEIR money. Your money is held as collateral and continues to draw interest.....often times the exact same interest the company is charging for thier money. I swear if I ever have another confrontation with some newbie primerica rep (like gary, only 20 years in the biz and still doesn't know this) and they say this to my client I will personally file a compalint with Dept of Insurance.

Rule #4- The cash value gets swallowed up at death.
<<<< NOT necessarily, however, if it does its because the client wanted the lowest possible premium for a level death benefit and doesn't give a rip about the cash values. Many people don't gary...they don't give a d**n what the cash values are or what they will be or what they could have been....all they want is a death benefit to be in force at death.

Whole life has always been nothing more than decreasing term insurance on top of a cash reserve. Its BTID in one package. Seems like a twenty year vet (as you claim to be) would understand that by now.

If the client cares they can choose option B to have both the death benefit and cash values, or they can choose Paid up Additions as the dividend option. Contrary to primerica myth, which gary repeats for them, paid up additions does not cost the client a extra single penny...EVER!!!!


5. Commissions..........If a client says they will only commit a certain amount to purchase life insurance....the COMMISSION TO THE AGENT WILL BE ABOUT THE SAME REGARDLESS OF WHETHER CLIENT GOES WITH CASH VALUE OR TERM INSURANCE!!!! It is not in the agent's financial interest to force whole life on the client. In fact, the commissions on term are somewhat higher than on whole life, especially if its a New York whole life compnay. You claim this is bull but how do you know since you don't sell cash value insurance? All you have is primerica's word for it and we have already seen they have lied to you about many other things.

6. Its not interest rates that matter, but time in debt that matters
<<<< This is what Jack Guttenburg says a mortgage scammer will say. Its in his book about getting a good mortgage. The ineterst rate is ALWAYS the most important because any payment plan any company has can be duplicated elsewhere. If a certain payment plan will have you out of debt in 24 years at 7.5% then the same payment will have you out of debt in 20 years at 6.0% OR, will have you out of debt in the same 24 years but with a lower monthly payment.

"Intererst doesn't matter only time in debt matters" is what a greedy corporation says to the gullible so they can suck an extra $100,000 in interest out of him over 24 years.

7. Having one person be your life guy, tax guy, attorney, investment guy, loan guy, etc......
<<<< Actually it might be okay IF THAT ONE PERSON
WAS ABLE TO ACCESS THE ENTIRE MARKETPLACE. However when the one guy is a jack-of-all trades master-of-none primerica newbie with one line of overpriced products to sell then its a recipe for financial disaster.

8. Life insurance is only for income replacement.
<<<<< Says who? Income replacement is surely one of the key reasons to own life insurance, but its not the only reason. To say there is one reason only is just plain stupid.

9. Debt stacking
<<<< Evetry financial planner, whether in practice or in the media scorns piling short term consumer debt into long term home equity debt....yet that is what primerica does every day. They like to quote people like Suze Orman and dave ramsey about term insurance, then ignore what they say about debt stacking and buying loaded mutual funds like primerica sells.

10. Dividends are just a refund of overcharge of premium
<<<<<< We've had this discussion before but here it goes again;
YEAH? SO WHAT??????? When a stockholder in General Electric gets a dividend check what is it other than the overcharge GE made to its clients?
This also known as THE PROFIT!!!!!
In the case of cash value insurance from a dividend company there are NO STOCKHOLDERS. The dividend represents the PROFIT the company made and it is returned to the policyholder in the form of a dividend.11. gary talked about some WIDOWS study that the industry was too embarrassed to release yet he, a lowly primerica rep, not even an RVP, magically knows about it. My guess is its like the mythical pyramid scheme State Farm was gonna do.....a total fabrication by primerica told to its reps who repeat it.

12 Average industry claim is $30,000 whereas primerica's is $200,000.
<<<< WELL DUH!!!!! lets look at why this might be. MOST CLAIMS are on elderly clients who have whole life policies issued DECADES AGO!!!!! This $30,000 doesn't take into account someone who might have more than 1 policy. Term insurance policies get dropped when people get older...too much premium. Only cash value policies remain in force.

Primerica's clients were sold only term insurance and are younger than whole life owners. Primerica's traget market has never been older people.

Here is a stat for ya gary....you say primerica's average death claim is $200,000? Thats UNDER the industry average for term insurance. Its $243,000. My guess is primerica's average death claim is $43,000 LOWER because their term insurance is so OVERPRICED the average Joe can't afford $243,000 of it. Does $43,000 less death benefit make a difference to that poor middle class widow primerica says its out to help? d**n right it does!

This phony stat Gary is repeating reminds me of one primerica used to use....."We have the lowest cost in the industry per $1,000 of death benefit issued" That looked good until you realized they don't sell cash value insurance and their premiums were 30% higher than everyone else for the same term insurance. If one dealership sells $35,000 SUVs and $12,000 Dodge Neons, are you going to buy a Dodge Neon for $17,000 from the dealer down the street who only sells Dodge Neons and therefore has a lower average cost per vehicle? Of course not. Only a primerica rep would be that stupid.

13. Gary says a whole life agent told him he would get both cash value and death benefir in 1980, so he concludes the entire industry is crooked like this guy
<<<< I could write a book of stupid, inaccurate and decietful statemnets I have heard primericans say, and devote an entire chapter just to Gary. Below are just a few samples with my remarks in parentheses;


a. you have to borrow your own money (scroll up to number #3)
b. you don't need life insurance for estate taxes because all you have to do is make sure not to give any one person more than $1 million. (the amount individual beneficaries recieve has absolutely NOTHING to do with how estate tax is calculated)
c. A primerica rep can deduct the cost of his business suits. (tell your friendly IRS auditor this)
d. If a client has paid up additions as his dividend option the agent gets a new commission each year. (this is a gary stupidity...the agent gets NO extra commission..not one red cent)
e. Only primerica has Terminal Illness Rider (many many companies do)
f. only primerica doesn't make a seperate charge for terminal illness riders (NONE who offer it show a separate charge)
g. only primerica will waive the policy fee on the spouse when both buy insurance (many companies do but more importantly, even the ones who don't are STILL LOWER in premium than primerica)
h. Diabetics can't get insurance anywhere (several companies will now issue term insurance on diabetics at preferred rates as long as their blood sugars are under control)

Thats enough for now.

I'm beginning to think gary is the creation of primerica home office...(we know they monitor this board)...and they just have the mythical gary repeat the same old primerica crap so it appears all over on the board.

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#69 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I'm happy that Crimerican Gary keeps coming back.

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

That embarassment to Crimerica, Gary, has trolled back under the command of his fat cat puppetmasters to do more shilling. But Gary does such a poor job of it I think he's really a double agent working for the competition.

You see Gary baby, here's how it works. That trash term insurance is overpriced to begin with as Crimerica itself attests to. That's bad enough, but the true rub is the vast majority of insureds have no need for such a policy for life insurance purposes and that's because the policy expires before it can pay out. That's the main reason why term insurance doesn't compete with whole life insurance (in fact that's why it's called term insurance).

Quoting: "I am not your whipping boy... as you keep saying I am ..." Gary it just goes to show you you're shooting off your mouth again. Which report did I allegedly say this in? What's the date?

Quoting: "Too bad you're not local ... would love to sit across the kitchen table with you for an enemy agent confrontation." I would welcome the
kitchen table confrontation with you and a Crimerica officer. How about it Gary?

Before I forget, another refresher for Gary:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers.
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#70 Consumer Suggestion

captain crimerica puppeteer strikes again

AUTHOR: Jay - (U.S.A.)

the number of outdated statistics,half truths, and outright lies in crimerica puppet garys post are too numerous to go over one by one . suffice to say that I now finally understand how it was possible for Jim Jones to serve Koolaid to the willing worshippers at Jonestown.
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#71 UPDATE Employee

to Stuey in NJ

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

What is it you do not understand about rebuttal(s) Stuey baby? All you do is bad mouth the opposition with your inuendo's & half-truths and half-lies ... Perpetrated on you by your whole life company! You're the one they treat like a mushroom ... Feeding you BS & keeping you in the dark!

Whole life is just over-priced insurance (term) with a bundled cash value (forced) savings account attached.

Here's how it works:

Rule #1. Usually no money goes into that account from 1-4 years. (Mine was 5 years)

Rule #2. The cash value has a very poor rate of return (1979 Federal Trade Report's 6-year study put it at 1.3% best average - mine was 2 1/2% but with no savings for 5 years it would take me about 19 years to get up to that 2/1/2% guarantee to break even.) Now I know their gross rates or promised rates are higher than that but the Net Effective Yield after 5-10 years in most cases is still a negative number... it takes almost 20 years to break even. Then when you factor in inflation...to those rates ... well give me a break will ya? Also, since the industry "churns & burns" the average policy only stays in force for less than 7-years. As the agent's company keeps repackaging the same old ... same old ... so the agent can go out & generate more commissions selling the same old crap to the same families.

*** speaking of which ... I saw a thread on another post ....think it's yours, maybe not. An agent makes the same commission selling term as whole life. What a pile of it! I believe they used a $750 - $900 premium to calculate their commission. They get paid the same commission off that premium... what (you) did not mention is the death benefit for that premium. With Term that $900 would buy about $500,000 of 30-year term (more or less depending on their age and tobacco habits) ....where the same premium would only purchase maybe $50,000 to $70,000 of whole life. Experts say a family should carry 8-10 times their annual salary in life insurance coverage. If you were the insurance company & had to pay a death claim which would you want to pay (for the same premium dollar) $70,000 or $500,000? Both whole life & term rates are based on the same mortality tables. I know the widow would want the bigger pile ($500,000), but in most cases she & her husband were sold the lower face amount cause it had this wonderful savings program. No one wants to think about dying but everyone wants to have money for retirement or college for their kids, and that's how it's sold to the unsuspecting family. So the agent leaves the family over-premiumed and/or underinsured.


Rule #3. If you have an emergency & need some cash from that account you have to borrow it. Now who's money are you borrowing?? ... it's your own money but not really ... as the insurance company owns it. Your cash is in long term investments so the insurance company uses your money as collateral for the loan & while the loan is outstanding it reduces the death benefit.

AND Rule #4. The final blow .... if the policy holder dies, the cash reverts back to the company to pay the death benefit. In otherwords they keep your savings & only pay the contract's death benefit.

Didn't they cover this in your continueing education classes??

I asked my agent at point of sale back in about 1980 - 81, as my first policy had a clause where I could add more insurance coverage on my birthdate (without proving insurabilty) ... if when I should die ... would my family would get both - the insurance & the savings?? He said "sure!" But after an ALW person read my policy(s) to me, it said just the opposite. Plus ... in 1980 the industry had new mortality rates, but were not required to switch for like 3-years, so my rates were still being calculated using the 1958 mortality rates! I had endowment policies (now obsolete or illegal to sell) that endowed at age 65. Of course while he was there he sold another whole life policy on my wife & another one on my son. (He retired by the time my daughter was born, so we had no coverage on her)

So you can ramble on and on about our rates being higher than yours & so on & so forth. But you're not selling very many policies if any at all ... as I have not come across any that beats us, so far.

Kiplingers did a survey in 2005 & found that about 60% of family's do not own any personal life insurance (but they may have some thru their work) & that 44% said they felt underinsured. So you guys are not doing your jobs, but we're recruiting people to help us go out & help those families. We only have about 1.8% market share & our goal is 10%.

Bottom line the industy's average death claim is in the $20,000 - $30,000 range while ours is over $180,000 (don't have exact #'s in front of me ... but thats on the conservative side. Our average face amount is well over $200,000 )

Too bad you're not local ... would love to sit across the kitchen table with you for an enemy agent confrontation. (Of course you never answered me on what licenses you have?? Maybe you're not even licensed) The agents here have pretty much given up on fighting us as we win all of the time... but (we) could use some stimualtion. In fact one company received a letter from their home office not to go up against us as we have the right stuff to fight back with & that they (the agents) could jeopardize their licenses if they tell any lies or step out of line .... They used to do that alot, when I first got in the business, but we report them to the insurance commissioner as we audio tape our conversations with the agent as we have nothing to hide....

I am not your whipping boy... as you keep saying I am ... Guess that's your only way you have to defend your lies... & the lies and old news passed down to you by your inferior surperiors.......

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#72 UPDATE EX-employee responds

For the wooden-headed puppet

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Poor Gary, he doesn't have a life anymore as the fat cat puppetmasters from Crimerica pull his strings and have him run over to Ripoff Report to do their dirty work.

I don't envy Gary's task as he's trying to do the impossible: coverup for Crimerica. For example he tramps over to Ripoff Report trying to hawk Crimerica's trash policy, the term insurance, knowing there's no competition with whole life insurance for a simple reason: by its very nature, term expires within 10 to 20 years while Americans live to age 80 meaning no payout to the vast majority of the market (any wonder why whole life buries term when it comes to retirement?).

Puppet Gary also knows that new agents are getting ripped off by Crimerica because thousands of them are losing commission by not being licensed while going out on appointments to their warm market with their "trainer." (their commission gets divvied up by the upline with the lion's share going to the fat cats).

Puppet Gary also knows that Crimerican agents can't compete as they don't have the flexibility to service the policyholder as competing insurance agents can (i.e. independents). Puppet Gary knows that on average, Crimerica costs about $100,000 more when it comes to financing the home (through Citigroup). Puppet Gary knows that Crimerica's term policies are very expensive (as Crimerica admits on their metamorphosis website). Puppet Gary knows that Crimerica has a huge workforce turnover among its agents.

Puppet Gary also knows that no newcomer to Crimerica will be making "six figure incomes" as the system is stacked totally in favor of the fat cats who don't want to share their wealth with anybody (so far no documentation has come forth to prove that a Crimerican officer has started from the bottom and worked his way up to the top).

The only thing we can count on from Puppet Gary is his trolling to Ripoff Report to run his mouth off (he can't take pounding the pavement to hawk the trash policies and he finds Crimerican meetings boring). He's now crying that he can't take the pressure from me and Leroy. As Harry truman would say "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." So shiller since you stuck your nose in again, I see you need another refresher course which is:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers." Do you get it yet Gary?
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#73 Consumer Suggestion

gary the braindead crimerica a**clown blathers on

AUTHOR: Jay - (U.S.A.)

this a.l. williams puppeteer keeps repeating the same ole lies. does this used car salesman in a cheap suit have no shame? ive never met him (thank god!) but im guessing he's no different than the other RVP's in my area, i.e. blathering on about their riches and slipping out the back door to jump start their beat up chevette in a driving rainstorm...
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#74 UPDATE Employee

Post Script for the Bopsey Twins....

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Stuart & Leroy, (couldn't resist)

We also use the Gryphon Network as well as our own website POL (Primerica Online) has a Do-Not-Call List that we must check out before making any calls. Our compliance is very specific on that matter.

The traditional industry loses about 80%-85% of their agents in about the same amount of time as PFS, but we don't require they give up their security blanket of a job, before exploring the possibilities that exist with us. If 80% - 85% of you guys in the traditional industry quit ... it's also a good possiblility that the agent who actually sold the policy will Not be the same person who delivers the death claim check, either. Right or wrong... so what's your point?

Our FNA (in most cases) frees up existing dollars so that this money can get repositioned to give the customer more value, using the same money. A portion of the freed up money ... applied to an investment, such as an IRA & the balance paid on the principal of the loan so that it's paid off much faster than any traditional refinance done by a bank. (We only consolidate high interest debt into the refinance, car loans & consumer loans we debt-stack to accellerate the payoff on those.) Therefore, interest plays a part with any loan but the amount of time in debt & the total amount of money paid on the loan far outweighs the interest rate. Interest rates can get manipulated to best suit the lender. (Do you pay your bills with interest rates or dollar bills??)

I'm sure you will come up with comparisons that will show you can do it cheaper... well then just go Do It, & then talk about it later! We'll see you across the kitchen table...

Again & again.... the average consumer ... middle income baby boomer .... where both husband & wife work outside the home ... do not have the money or net worth ... to have their insurance (life, health, auto) person(s) , investment (guru) broker, their banker, mortgage company, credit card agency reps, 401-K administrators, etc. ... come over in person to their home & work up a complimentary, confidential & customized written financial game plan to get them totally debt free & financially independant.

Also ... have you heard of the new car insurance with a Retirement savings plan attached? Or the home owners policy with a college savings plan attached. No? That's cause they don't exist... so why purchase life insurance with a forced savings plan attached? Cause that's how it's sold! The biggest rip-off perpetrated on the unsuspecting public in the history of mankind has been trash value life insurance! Have you heard of the "Widows" study that was done by the industry to see how well they were doing in paying death claims? It showed at that time, that the average widow had enough insurance money to last her less than 6-months when the husband died. The industry was so embarrassed they did not make it known to to the public.

Have they improved, yeah ... but the last time I was contacted by an agent (about 1998), she tried her best to get me involved with a Variable Universal Life Policy. She had to go get her lap-top to calculate term insurance, but that's only after I asked her to. But she said: "Do you want to rent your insurance or own it & build equity?" I said I would rather rent it & invest into an IRA account where I controlled my money & not let the insurance company use my money.

Life insurance really should be called income replacement insurance for a term of time (temporary) until you have enough invested to become self-insured & all of your debts paid off. Then just cancel the term policy & invest those premium dollars, which makes a whole lot more sense. But the industry does not or has not done it that way. Their answer to Buy Term & Invest the Difference was Universal Life. If you choose Plan A (or is it Plan B ?) your family gets both the death benefit and the forced savings - of course the premium is a lot higher. (the opposite Plan A or Plan B works just like traditional cash value... the savings (plus interest accrued) which represents an overcharge of premium in the early years is used by the company to pay the death benefit. For those reading this who are not insurance savy or licensed this means: If you have a $50,000 death benefit & have $15,000 dollars in the Cash Values, upon proven death, the beneficiary gets $50,000. The $15,000 in the forced savings reverts back to the insurance company to help pay the death benefit.

So in other words, you lose your money in the savings. OH OH .... Leroy will disagree with that... you see you don't lose it ... it just becomes part of the death benefit. It's like having $50,000 coverage on your "Hummer" with a $15,000 deductable! All you will ever get upon death is the $50 grand. Of course if you live to be 100, then your cash value will equal the death benefit & you will get a check for $50,000 because by then you're legally dead! (by insurance standards - last I checked it was only age 95 in Texas!!

Don't even bring up Dividends again, Stuart & Leroy ... as they are a "partial" refund of an "overcharge collected". Therefore, they are not taxable as the policy holder was taxed on the overcharge. Anyway most company's are not "Participating" anymore, but their policies are still in force the last time I checked... even if they pay great interest on the dividends it's still an overcharge. The only good thing about dividends ... if they accumulate at interest they do get paid in addition to the death benefit. But they're still a partial refund of an overcharge collected .... so it's a catch 22.

My agent told me if I died I would get both. Both to me meant $65,000 in the above scenario ... but it's not ... "both" to the insurance company means the cash value gets paid but the face amount is reduced by that cash value amount. In this case if I died prematurely my wife would have had a huge eye-opener ... cause she would be expecting a $65,000 check. But like almost everyone, we never read our policy... we just trusted the agent who happened to be an old Army buddy friend of my Dad's.
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#75 UPDATE Employee

Post Script for the Bopsey Twins....

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Stuart & Leroy, (couldn't resist)

We also use the Gryphon Network as well as our own website POL (Primerica Online) has a Do-Not-Call List that we must check out before making any calls. Our compliance is very specific on that matter.

The traditional industry loses about 80%-85% of their agents in about the same amount of time as PFS, but we don't require they give up their security blanket of a job, before exploring the possibilities that exist with us. If 80% - 85% of you guys in the traditional industry quit ... it's also a good possiblility that the agent who actually sold the policy will Not be the same person who delivers the death claim check, either. Right or wrong... so what's your point?

Our FNA (in most cases) frees up existing dollars so that this money can get repositioned to give the customer more value, using the same money. A portion of the freed up money ... applied to an investment, such as an IRA & the balance paid on the principal of the loan so that it's paid off much faster than any traditional refinance done by a bank. (We only consolidate high interest debt into the refinance, car loans & consumer loans we debt-stack to accellerate the payoff on those.) Therefore, interest plays a part with any loan but the amount of time in debt & the total amount of money paid on the loan far outweighs the interest rate. Interest rates can get manipulated to best suit the lender. (Do you pay your bills with interest rates or dollar bills??)

I'm sure you will come up with comparisons that will show you can do it cheaper... well then just go Do It, & then talk about it later! We'll see you across the kitchen table...

Again & again.... the average consumer ... middle income baby boomer .... where both husband & wife work outside the home ... do not have the money or net worth ... to have their insurance (life, health, auto) person(s) , investment (guru) broker, their banker, mortgage company, credit card agency reps, 401-K administrators, etc. ... come over in person to their home & work up a complimentary, confidential & customized written financial game plan to get them totally debt free & financially independant.

Also ... have you heard of the new car insurance with a Retirement savings plan attached? Or the home owners policy with a college savings plan attached. No? That's cause they don't exist... so why purchase life insurance with a forced savings plan attached? Cause that's how it's sold! The biggest rip-off perpetrated on the unsuspecting public in the history of mankind has been trash value life insurance! Have you heard of the "Widows" study that was done by the industry to see how well they were doing in paying death claims? It showed at that time, that the average widow had enough insurance money to last her less than 6-months when the husband died. The industry was so embarrassed they did not make it known to to the public.

Have they improved, yeah ... but the last time I was contacted by an agent (about 1998), she tried her best to get me involved with a Variable Universal Life Policy. She had to go get her lap-top to calculate term insurance, but that's only after I asked her to. But she said: "Do you want to rent your insurance or own it & build equity?" I said I would rather rent it & invest into an IRA account where I controlled my money & not let the insurance company use my money.

Life insurance really should be called income replacement insurance for a term of time (temporary) until you have enough invested to become self-insured & all of your debts paid off. Then just cancel the term policy & invest those premium dollars, which makes a whole lot more sense. But the industry does not or has not done it that way. Their answer to Buy Term & Invest the Difference was Universal Life. If you choose Plan A (or is it Plan B ?) your family gets both the death benefit and the forced savings - of course the premium is a lot higher. (the opposite Plan A or Plan B works just like traditional cash value... the savings (plus interest accrued) which represents an overcharge of premium in the early years is used by the company to pay the death benefit. For those reading this who are not insurance savy or licensed this means: If you have a $50,000 death benefit & have $15,000 dollars in the Cash Values, upon proven death, the beneficiary gets $50,000. The $15,000 in the forced savings reverts back to the insurance company to help pay the death benefit.

So in other words, you lose your money in the savings. OH OH .... Leroy will disagree with that... you see you don't lose it ... it just becomes part of the death benefit. It's like having $50,000 coverage on your "Hummer" with a $15,000 deductable! All you will ever get upon death is the $50 grand. Of course if you live to be 100, then your cash value will equal the death benefit & you will get a check for $50,000 because by then you're legally dead! (by insurance standards - last I checked it was only age 95 in Texas!!

Don't even bring up Dividends again, Stuart & Leroy ... as they are a "partial" refund of an "overcharge collected". Therefore, they are not taxable as the policy holder was taxed on the overcharge. Anyway most company's are not "Participating" anymore, but their policies are still in force the last time I checked... even if they pay great interest on the dividends it's still an overcharge. The only good thing about dividends ... if they accumulate at interest they do get paid in addition to the death benefit. But they're still a partial refund of an overcharge collected .... so it's a catch 22.

My agent told me if I died I would get both. Both to me meant $65,000 in the above scenario ... but it's not ... "both" to the insurance company means the cash value gets paid but the face amount is reduced by that cash value amount. In this case if I died prematurely my wife would have had a huge eye-opener ... cause she would be expecting a $65,000 check. But like almost everyone, we never read our policy... we just trusted the agent who happened to be an old Army buddy friend of my Dad's.
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#76 UPDATE Employee

Post Script for the Bopsey Twins....

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Stuart & Leroy, (couldn't resist)

We also use the Gryphon Network as well as our own website POL (Primerica Online) has a Do-Not-Call List that we must check out before making any calls. Our compliance is very specific on that matter.

The traditional industry loses about 80%-85% of their agents in about the same amount of time as PFS, but we don't require they give up their security blanket of a job, before exploring the possibilities that exist with us. If 80% - 85% of you guys in the traditional industry quit ... it's also a good possiblility that the agent who actually sold the policy will Not be the same person who delivers the death claim check, either. Right or wrong... so what's your point?

Our FNA (in most cases) frees up existing dollars so that this money can get repositioned to give the customer more value, using the same money. A portion of the freed up money ... applied to an investment, such as an IRA & the balance paid on the principal of the loan so that it's paid off much faster than any traditional refinance done by a bank. (We only consolidate high interest debt into the refinance, car loans & consumer loans we debt-stack to accellerate the payoff on those.) Therefore, interest plays a part with any loan but the amount of time in debt & the total amount of money paid on the loan far outweighs the interest rate. Interest rates can get manipulated to best suit the lender. (Do you pay your bills with interest rates or dollar bills??)

I'm sure you will come up with comparisons that will show you can do it cheaper... well then just go Do It, & then talk about it later! We'll see you across the kitchen table...

Again & again.... the average consumer ... middle income baby boomer .... where both husband & wife work outside the home ... do not have the money or net worth ... to have their insurance (life, health, auto) person(s) , investment (guru) broker, their banker, mortgage company, credit card agency reps, 401-K administrators, etc. ... come over in person to their home & work up a complimentary, confidential & customized written financial game plan to get them totally debt free & financially independant.

Also ... have you heard of the new car insurance with a Retirement savings plan attached? Or the home owners policy with a college savings plan attached. No? That's cause they don't exist... so why purchase life insurance with a forced savings plan attached? Cause that's how it's sold! The biggest rip-off perpetrated on the unsuspecting public in the history of mankind has been trash value life insurance! Have you heard of the "Widows" study that was done by the industry to see how well they were doing in paying death claims? It showed at that time, that the average widow had enough insurance money to last her less than 6-months when the husband died. The industry was so embarrassed they did not make it known to to the public.

Have they improved, yeah ... but the last time I was contacted by an agent (about 1998), she tried her best to get me involved with a Variable Universal Life Policy. She had to go get her lap-top to calculate term insurance, but that's only after I asked her to. But she said: "Do you want to rent your insurance or own it & build equity?" I said I would rather rent it & invest into an IRA account where I controlled my money & not let the insurance company use my money.

Life insurance really should be called income replacement insurance for a term of time (temporary) until you have enough invested to become self-insured & all of your debts paid off. Then just cancel the term policy & invest those premium dollars, which makes a whole lot more sense. But the industry does not or has not done it that way. Their answer to Buy Term & Invest the Difference was Universal Life. If you choose Plan A (or is it Plan B ?) your family gets both the death benefit and the forced savings - of course the premium is a lot higher. (the opposite Plan A or Plan B works just like traditional cash value... the savings (plus interest accrued) which represents an overcharge of premium in the early years is used by the company to pay the death benefit. For those reading this who are not insurance savy or licensed this means: If you have a $50,000 death benefit & have $15,000 dollars in the Cash Values, upon proven death, the beneficiary gets $50,000. The $15,000 in the forced savings reverts back to the insurance company to help pay the death benefit.

So in other words, you lose your money in the savings. OH OH .... Leroy will disagree with that... you see you don't lose it ... it just becomes part of the death benefit. It's like having $50,000 coverage on your "Hummer" with a $15,000 deductable! All you will ever get upon death is the $50 grand. Of course if you live to be 100, then your cash value will equal the death benefit & you will get a check for $50,000 because by then you're legally dead! (by insurance standards - last I checked it was only age 95 in Texas!!

Don't even bring up Dividends again, Stuart & Leroy ... as they are a "partial" refund of an "overcharge collected". Therefore, they are not taxable as the policy holder was taxed on the overcharge. Anyway most company's are not "Participating" anymore, but their policies are still in force the last time I checked... even if they pay great interest on the dividends it's still an overcharge. The only good thing about dividends ... if they accumulate at interest they do get paid in addition to the death benefit. But they're still a partial refund of an overcharge collected .... so it's a catch 22.

My agent told me if I died I would get both. Both to me meant $65,000 in the above scenario ... but it's not ... "both" to the insurance company means the cash value gets paid but the face amount is reduced by that cash value amount. In this case if I died prematurely my wife would have had a huge eye-opener ... cause she would be expecting a $65,000 check. But like almost everyone, we never read our policy... we just trusted the agent who happened to be an old Army buddy friend of my Dad's.
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#77 UPDATE Employee

Post Script for the Bopsey Twins....

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Stuart & Leroy, (couldn't resist)

We also use the Gryphon Network as well as our own website POL (Primerica Online) has a Do-Not-Call List that we must check out before making any calls. Our compliance is very specific on that matter.

The traditional industry loses about 80%-85% of their agents in about the same amount of time as PFS, but we don't require they give up their security blanket of a job, before exploring the possibilities that exist with us. If 80% - 85% of you guys in the traditional industry quit ... it's also a good possiblility that the agent who actually sold the policy will Not be the same person who delivers the death claim check, either. Right or wrong... so what's your point?

Our FNA (in most cases) frees up existing dollars so that this money can get repositioned to give the customer more value, using the same money. A portion of the freed up money ... applied to an investment, such as an IRA & the balance paid on the principal of the loan so that it's paid off much faster than any traditional refinance done by a bank. (We only consolidate high interest debt into the refinance, car loans & consumer loans we debt-stack to accellerate the payoff on those.) Therefore, interest plays a part with any loan but the amount of time in debt & the total amount of money paid on the loan far outweighs the interest rate. Interest rates can get manipulated to best suit the lender. (Do you pay your bills with interest rates or dollar bills??)

I'm sure you will come up with comparisons that will show you can do it cheaper... well then just go Do It, & then talk about it later! We'll see you across the kitchen table...

Again & again.... the average consumer ... middle income baby boomer .... where both husband & wife work outside the home ... do not have the money or net worth ... to have their insurance (life, health, auto) person(s) , investment (guru) broker, their banker, mortgage company, credit card agency reps, 401-K administrators, etc. ... come over in person to their home & work up a complimentary, confidential & customized written financial game plan to get them totally debt free & financially independant.

Also ... have you heard of the new car insurance with a Retirement savings plan attached? Or the home owners policy with a college savings plan attached. No? That's cause they don't exist... so why purchase life insurance with a forced savings plan attached? Cause that's how it's sold! The biggest rip-off perpetrated on the unsuspecting public in the history of mankind has been trash value life insurance! Have you heard of the "Widows" study that was done by the industry to see how well they were doing in paying death claims? It showed at that time, that the average widow had enough insurance money to last her less than 6-months when the husband died. The industry was so embarrassed they did not make it known to to the public.

Have they improved, yeah ... but the last time I was contacted by an agent (about 1998), she tried her best to get me involved with a Variable Universal Life Policy. She had to go get her lap-top to calculate term insurance, but that's only after I asked her to. But she said: "Do you want to rent your insurance or own it & build equity?" I said I would rather rent it & invest into an IRA account where I controlled my money & not let the insurance company use my money.

Life insurance really should be called income replacement insurance for a term of time (temporary) until you have enough invested to become self-insured & all of your debts paid off. Then just cancel the term policy & invest those premium dollars, which makes a whole lot more sense. But the industry does not or has not done it that way. Their answer to Buy Term & Invest the Difference was Universal Life. If you choose Plan A (or is it Plan B ?) your family gets both the death benefit and the forced savings - of course the premium is a lot higher. (the opposite Plan A or Plan B works just like traditional cash value... the savings (plus interest accrued) which represents an overcharge of premium in the early years is used by the company to pay the death benefit. For those reading this who are not insurance savy or licensed this means: If you have a $50,000 death benefit & have $15,000 dollars in the Cash Values, upon proven death, the beneficiary gets $50,000. The $15,000 in the forced savings reverts back to the insurance company to help pay the death benefit.

So in other words, you lose your money in the savings. OH OH .... Leroy will disagree with that... you see you don't lose it ... it just becomes part of the death benefit. It's like having $50,000 coverage on your "Hummer" with a $15,000 deductable! All you will ever get upon death is the $50 grand. Of course if you live to be 100, then your cash value will equal the death benefit & you will get a check for $50,000 because by then you're legally dead! (by insurance standards - last I checked it was only age 95 in Texas!!

Don't even bring up Dividends again, Stuart & Leroy ... as they are a "partial" refund of an "overcharge collected". Therefore, they are not taxable as the policy holder was taxed on the overcharge. Anyway most company's are not "Participating" anymore, but their policies are still in force the last time I checked... even if they pay great interest on the dividends it's still an overcharge. The only good thing about dividends ... if they accumulate at interest they do get paid in addition to the death benefit. But they're still a partial refund of an overcharge collected .... so it's a catch 22.

My agent told me if I died I would get both. Both to me meant $65,000 in the above scenario ... but it's not ... "both" to the insurance company means the cash value gets paid but the face amount is reduced by that cash value amount. In this case if I died prematurely my wife would have had a huge eye-opener ... cause she would be expecting a $65,000 check. But like almost everyone, we never read our policy... we just trusted the agent who happened to be an old Army buddy friend of my Dad's.
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#78 UPDATE EX-employee responds

To recruitment victims of Crimerica

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

The following comes from https://primerica.gryphonnetworks.com/
private/agentRegLogin.asp:

"Do-Not-Call Compliance . . . Do I need that?
Complying with Do-Not-Call (DNC) laws is no longer an option for independent business owners...it is a REQUIREMENT!

With Gryphon Networks you can RELAX. We have made compliance convenient and affordable. Our patented solutions also include valuable business management tools designed to help busy professionals on the go.

Gryphon Networks' CALL ADVISORrovides you peace of mind, ensuring that your prospecting and customer acquisition efforts are bullet proof. Our proven technology:

v Prevents all state, federal and Primerica-specific DNC restricted calls
v Identifies "Call Curfew" restricted calls
v Protects you against potential fines of up to $25,000 per call"

To stop those recruitment pests from Crimerica from calling you, get registered with the federal
do-not-call list. Each violation of the law can
cost Crimerica $25,000 (the FTC is a stickler for
the law and will enforce your consumer rights).
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#79 Consumer Comment

Victims of primerica?

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

I'm not a victim of primerica. In fact I always perk up a bit when I run across overpriced primerica term policies. It means there are several more within the extended family that are easy replacements with better policies.

Yes, I hate primerica. (I hate their bedmate Enron too). I've never denied it. Its the most cynical marketing operation I've ever seen. They are on a holy jihad to sell only term insurance and save the middle class, but instead they exploit the middle class by selling ridiculously expensive term insurance. The only place primerica sells competetive term insurance is to non-smoking very healthy males 40-50, only on $One Million or more 30 year term policies
( primerica labelled 30 year term a ripoff when it was first introduced by others in the industry). How are $million plus policies aimed to benefit the middle class?

They are on a jihad to get the middle class out of debt but use one of the most deceptive sales pitches ever concieved to convince the gullible they are better off paying $75,000-100,000 more interest on their home loans than is necessary. Rolling consumer debt into your home loan is considered a no-no by virtually every financial planner in the business or in the media, but its what primerica does every day. Then they charge the poor sap who bought into it 1.5-1.75% more than he could qualify for if he went to a real mortgage company.

They lie to their agents, telling them their products are unique when they are not. Their products are easily duplicated in any of a number of areas and one can ALWAYS find more cost efficient products.

They lie to their agents about how the competetitors products work. They tell people, like gary, who believed it, that other agents get a new commission every year when they use the dividends on their whole life policies to purchase paid up additions. In truth they get NO additional commission, but a lie like that serves the purpose of keeping the gullible faithful agents in line.

They lie to their agents about how other agents are compensated so they can keep their commissions low to all but a few very successful agents, thus depriving the unwashed masses of a fighting chance to struggle through the tough early years. A beginning agent can get 3 times as much commission on a lower priced product to the consumer with a myriad of other companies. They don't even have to give away their warm market to the greedy RVP who wants to rip him off for those people.

A.L. Williams founded primerica on a cynical vision. He saw the average life insurance agent
came into the business, sold 6-7 policies to close freinds and relatives, then dropped out. A.L. figured out a way to get that poor sap to turn over those 6-7 commissions to him, and thats how this cess pool of a company was conceived.

gary says only primerica people do all these wonderful things for widows when they get a death check. I want to know how they do that when 99.9% of primerica agents drop out of the business within a few months? Every primerica client I've ever met all claim after their rep dropped out of the business they never heard from primercia again except for the bill. When a death claim is filed does primerica now all of a sudden care about this person so they give the benefit check to an RVP to deliver because he might be able to hit an emotional widow up with a plan for her to buy more loaded mutual funds?

Gary details all the wonderful things they would do if they are around, as if no one else but a primerica rep does those things. Its pure brainwashing. I've delivered more death checks in the last two years than most primerica agents will sell policies in their careers.

But none of that matters really....what matters is this;
1. they sell grossly overpriced term insurance and no silly cliches about absence of value changes that
2. they sell ridiculously overpriced and loaded up home loans costing that middle class family they claim they are the saviors of an extra $75,000-100,000 in excess interest payments
3. they sell only loaded mutual funds
4. they underpay all but the very top producing agents.
5. every financial plan they come up with is the same. They just leave blank spaces to fill in the names and the numbers
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#80 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rebutting Crimerican Gary's fairy tale - made up dribble

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

I prefer to stay on focus Gary. Most of your made up dribble I won't even dignify with an answer. However one portion of your fantasy relates directly to Crimerica which I'll address:

"Cost only becomes an issue in the absense of value. When your company pays a death claim ... do you hand deliver it & then help that family pay off any debts they may need to get paid off, set up an investment account so the surviving spouse can live off of the income, or set up college funds for the children?? The industry says you do not... in most cases if the agent does hand deliver the death claim check ... its not enough to pay off anything or to invest into an income bearing account so he will sell the bereved spouse another Cash Value Policy with the proceeds so he can make another commission check.. Thats their track record not ours...."

Just a few points:

First Crimerica only does term insurance which always expire and isn't primarily designed to be
as life insurance since the average age a person lives to is 80 (another way of putting this is most clients outlive the term policies).

Second Crimerica's term insurance is very expensive as Crimerica readily admits by their metamorphosis website so policyholders are throwing away good money which only goes to support the fat cats at Crimerica leaving crumbs for the underlings.

Third Citigroup sells cash value policies so sonny
boy is also competing with daddy when it comes to
insurance (also mentioned at Crimerica's metamorphosis website).

Now shiller Gary it's time for your refresher lesson:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report? is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#81 UPDATE Employee

The Two Bopsey Twins

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Hello Stuart & Leroy....

Stuart you never answered me about whether or not you have any licenses in the areas I mentioned in my previous post ... or not. Weeeelllll ? Put up or shut up!

So are you & Leroy victims of Primerica? Or just sick you can't come & compete with us... you're really not the competition but the opposition.

Chheeeessse, I have never met anyone in my life so hateful towards one company! Why don't you do something constructive with your lives. Oh, excuse me ... first you have to like ... get one! Our SNSD just gave $500,000 to his church so they would not have to go into debt to expand their facillities and yet you accuse us of being greedy. He never advertised that ... but I've met his pastor.

Cost only becomes an issue in the absense of value. When your company pays a death claim ... do you hand deliver it & then help that family pay off any debts they may need to get paid off, set up an investment account so the surviving spouse can live off of the income, or set up college funds for the children?? The industry says you do not... in most cases if the agent does hand deliver the death claim check ... its not enough to pay off anything or to invest into an income bearing account so he will sell the bereved spouse another Cash Value Policy with the proceeds so he can make another commission check.. Thats their track record not ours....

The End... I only responded to your half truths and inuendos ... but I will from this day forward just say ... see you at the top... if you make it that far... God Bless....
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#82 Consumer Comment

Gary goes off the deep end

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Gary blames the State of California for not supervising A.L. Williams Agency (what primerica used to be called). Next thing you know Gary will be blaming J. Edgar Hoover for not supervising Bonnie & Clyde and John Dillinger well enough. Sheesh. Sometimes this shiller amazes me.

Gary says Citigroup got into trouble with Enron because they trusted the wrong people. Giggle! Citigroup was in bed with Enron from start to finish, as Anonymous from Oklahoma detailed.

Now for some other Gary stuff.

<<<700,000 foreclosures. Is this higher or lower than normal. The raw stat tells us nothing. I read an article in this week's financial section saying foreclosures are lower than average but expected to go higher.

<<
<<
<<<
<<<
<<<
Of course non of this changes the fact that primerica exploits consumers with extremely high cost term insurance, loaded mutual funds, and ridiculously expensive home loans. It also exploits is sales force with beginning commissions that are 1/3rd what they could make selling good products instead...and thats after giving away 6 sales.
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#83 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rebutting Crimerican Gary (Wichita)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Gary,

I guess you got bored of those Crimerican meetings again and your soles are getting worn out thin hawking those expensive, trash policies at street corners. So it's time to embarrass you further.

Quoting:

"With your "Crimerica" name calling you're just showing us your IQ, isn't that all?" Would you rather have me join you and the other shillers? Not on my life (I would say yours but you gave it up when you joined Crimerica).

"FACT: For the first time since the Great Depression the USA's at a negative savings rate - a minus 1 percent. (It's not because people aren't making enough money ... it's cause they have way too much debt, correct?)" Wrong, it can mean that people are spending money for things they've been
putting off buying for years. Another point, debt isn't necessarily a bad thing when the debtor carefully manages his finances as the debtor is getting goods and services now instead of waiting for them and spending creates jobs (do you have a
degree in economics Gary?).

"FACT: Due to exotic mortgages (Adjustable Rate Mortgages or ARM's - Interest Only Loans) and the refinance boom that occurred a few years back it's predicted that over 700,000 homes will go thru foreclosure just this year!

FACT: Bankruptcies are at an all time high..."

FACT: US population reaching 300 million this fall. Is the percentage of foreclosures and bankruptcies vs population at an all-time high too?

"FACT: The average death benefit paid by the life insurance industry is (more or less) about $30,000! Which would only pay for income replacement to the surviving spouse for about 8-10 months after the funeral gets paid for."

FACT: Social Security and pensions are designed for that specific purpose (retirement income).

"FACT: Most families (unless they have a high net worth) do not have a written Will." Don't even know why you brought this up unless you're trying to throw a scare into someone. Most families don't even need a will as they're satisfied as to how the money's to be divvied up and you're already suggesting that income taxes won't be a factor in
estate handling.

"FACT: The big brokerage firms & insurance companies at present - pretty much ignore middle income families. As they don't make any money marketing to those families." Neither does Crimerica which targets low-income families.

"At PFS, we do all of that & more. Our average death benefit conservatively is over 5 times the industry's average. We make house calls & our phone works 24 - 7 - 365. If someone quits the home office & the RVP's office will service that account. (The same way any other business would operate.)" A few points:

(1) Crimerica sells only term. Since the average age people live to is about 80, then the term policy would have long expired and there's no death benefit from it. However whole life policies
are designed to pay out up to age 100 (which Citigroup does sell).

(2) It's common knowledge that due to turnover, the insured never hears from the sales agent again
with no followup from the home office

"Those people who complain on this site & choose not to at least give it a go ... have made that choice & it's really not our fault." Crimerica will never take responsibility for its criminal actions of promoting deception and helping to rob
people blind, not unless they get pursued in court. You can't fault those who have seen the light, eh shiller Gary?

"PS: Oh yeah & that Enron fiasco that keeps popping up on here with Citigroup. The men responsible for Enron's failure "cooked" the books, lied about it & committed fraud. Citibank got sucked into that all because they made a big mistake trusting the wrong people. They paid their fines. But the real culprits to blame are those men at Enron ... they should get punished to the fullest extent of the law.. If this were the old west, they would have gotten tared & feathered, then hung! Blaming PFS & Citigroup for Enron's failure just shows again your IQ... and blaming PFS (or A L Williams) for the State of California's failure to supervise is another sign of your .... well anyone with average inteligence or above will see thru your comments on this blog." You left out Worldcom Gary. And let's not forget the heavy fining the government has dobe due to predatory lending by Citigroup.

Gary, you're pathetic. Just another embarassment to pyramid-schemed Crimerica. Now it's time for your refresher course Gary. Just get ready and recite 100 times:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#84 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Off Course

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

I am a former agent (PFA) with this company. I got a good financial education with the company. However, I left Primerica because I began to see some things that disturbed me. Some have been listed on here. First, I never understood why you had to give up your first six sales to your upline. What I was given the impression of was giving that up was just part of the process and you would get it all back with the hypothetical downlines you were going to create. Thus, all the recruits you directly recruited you would get the first six sales as well. That's just baloney.

Also, there was no reason to create a list of your warm market unless you were going to be the sole one to call on the prospective clientele on that list AFTER being properly and thoroughly educated. Mapping a financial plan and helping handle people's finances is a huge responsibility. Second, I had trouble reconciling that on one hand, Primerica, as a subsidiary of Citigroup, was selling getting out of debt and retiring financially secure. Then other subsidiaries under the Citigroup umbrella, Citibank and Citicorp, deal out credit cards and unsecured loans to get people into debt.

That just reeked of hypocrisy. Either your company stands for one thing or the other. If you're playing both sides of the fence, greed is your obvious motive. Third, the recruiting tactics were shady. What I mean by that is when you approached someone, you wouldn't disclose entirely of what your company did which was SELL financial plans that had bundled financial instruments that were to achieve a financial objective.

If you don't fully disclose what you do, you're deceiving someone. They hope that their deception will trick someone into working for the company and then everything will turn out fine later. They are afraid of someone telling them "no". In sales, you can't be afraid of people telling you no. You're going to get rejected but be wholly truthful and disclose everything of what you do. People will respect you even though they turned you down because of your honesty.

Responding to hotjobs and monster or going to a prospect while they are at work and telling them "A friend of mine was in here the other day (B.S.) and they were really impressed with the way you do your job. Are you interested in a management position blah blah blah" is completely unprofessional and unethical. Fourth, if agents of competing businesses are replacing life insurance policies it is because they aren't servicing their clientele after the sale or they fold up shop, quit and leave their now former client stranded. I have seen some agents on here who tought having replaced policies and trashing the company.

I suspect they have also had their rip off whole life policies replaced by term offered by a PFS agent and they are venting. Whole life is a terrible investment. It just sucks. The only good thing I can see with whole life is using it as a tool to keep a client disciplined in the goal of self insuring themselves. Use term life that is convertible to whole life and tell your client "This will be the cost of not being disciplined and following this plan. If this converts to whole life, this will put enormous financial stress on you in your golden years. Be disciplined now and invest the savings you will save on the term life and we can cancel the policy when it is about to convert to whole life. If you have followed the plan, you will have a nice nest egg of cash."

The founding belief of AL Williams, now PFS, was "buy term and invest the difference". However, I wonder how well the clientele have followed the plan that any agent has constructed for them. You cannot control how someone disciplines themselves. However, you can show them how costly it will be if they don't. PFS agents are too busy trying to recruit and build their business rather than servicing their clients. Big problem.

Fifth, Citigroup helping Enron create offshore entities to hide debt off Enron's accounting books and then getting grilled by a U.S. Senate subcommittee. Sixth, the scandal involving one of Smith Barney's (another subsidiary of Citigroup) top stock analysts and Sandy Weill, Citigroup CEO where Citigroup payed a $400 million settlement fine to the SEC neither admitting or denying responsibility where the analyst gave AT&T stock a "buy" rating when Weill was named to the AT&T board of directors yet the analyst in correspondence to colleagues stated that AT&T was a bad investment. The alleged payoff involved Weill using his influence to allow admittance of the analyst's children to the 92nd St. Y school, which was evidently one of the elite placement schools in New York. Weill later let Charles O. Prince take the reins of the company though Weill is still chairman. I suspected this move was to get out of the limelight while all the stuff was hitting the fan. Seventh and finally, recruits having big dreams initially and then going broke trying to make it work because they weren't properly trained or had a clear understanding of the profession they were in.

Too many people have been hurt by Primerica because of a lot of people in the company (there are good people though as well but unfortunately the bad ones give the business a bad name) whose greed blinds them and their Machieavellian behavior "the ends justify the means" leaves carcasses in their wake.
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#85 UPDATE Employee

Stuart in NJ

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Question: Are you Insurance (Life - Health - Property & Casualty) Licensed or Securities Licensed (Series 6 & 63) or Mortgage Licensed within your State of New Jersey ?? Just curious is all....

For if that's the case - then you possibly could be hanging your butt out to dry for possible slander and/or defamation of character. This is a site where people come to whine & moan about being mistreated, misinformed, misguided or mislead & a place for others to rebutt those people. But it's not a place for name calling, etc. With your "Crimerica" name calling you're just showing us your IQ, isn't that all ?

FACT: For the first time since the Great Depression the USA's at a negative savings rate - a minus 1 percent. (It's not because people aren't making enough money ... it's cause they have way too much debt, correct?)

FACT: Due to exotic mortgages (Adjustable Rate Mortgages or ARM's - Interest Only Loans) and the refinance boom that occurred a few years back it's predicted that over 700,000 homes will go thru foreclosure just this year!

FACT: Bankruptcies are at an all time high...

FACT: The average household in the USA carries high interest credit card debt of over $9,000! (Over $12,000 if you just count the households who actually own credit cards) And if they pay the minimums those credit cards are designed to (almost) never get paid off.

FACT: The average death benefit paid by the life insurance industry is (more or less) about $30,000! Which would only pay for income replacement to the surviving spouse for about 8-10 months after the funeral gets paid for.

FACT: Most families (unless they have a high net worth) do not have a written Will.

FACT: The big brokerage firms & insurance companies at present - pretty much ignore middle income families. As they don't make any money marketing to those families.

FACT: Ask your 401-K Plan Administrator (thru your work), your Broker (if you even have one) your insurance guys/gals (life, health, long term care plus auto & home insurance), your banker or credit union (installment loans), your mortgage company (if your mortgage loan is not thru a bank), your attorney to help with legal protection & to prepare your Will ... and all of the representatives of your credit card companies to come over to your house ... next Thursday. Then ask them to put together a comprensive plan, that's customized, confidential & complimentary (free) that will get you totally debt free, protect your estate & yourself from financial losses, and create financial independance thru a sound investment program such as a Roth IRA. Do all of that - before you reach your selected retirement age. What would they tell you? Ain't gonna happen unless you just won a big multi-million dollar lottery... right? (And even then they don't make house calls...! Their phones are only turned on Monday thru Friday from 9 AM - 5 PM.)

At PFS, we do all of that & more. Our average death benefit conservatively is over 5 times the industry's average. We make house calls & our phone works 24 - 7 - 365. If someone quits the home office & the RVP's office will service that account. (The same way any other business would operate.)

Those people who complain on this site & choose not to at least give it a go ... have made that choice & it's really not our fault. But someday & not too far in the future, it will haunt them ... that they listened to wrong advice from people more messed up than they are. This business is not for everyone... but we give almost everyone a chance. There's no test devised by man that can look inside of a person to measure if they have what it takes to win.

PS: Oh yeah & that Enron fiasco that keeps popping up on here with Citigroup. The men responsible for Enron's failure "cooked" the books, lied about it & committed fraud. Citibank got sucked into that all because they made a big mistake trusting the wrong people. They paid their fines. But the real culprits to blame are those men at Enron ... they should get punished to the fullest extent of the law.. If this were the old west, they would have gotten tared & feathered, then hung! Blaming PFS & Citigroup for Enron's failure just shows again your IQ... and blaming PFS (or A L Williams) for the State of California's failure to supervise is another sign of your .... well anyone with average inteligence or above will see thru your comments on this blog.
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#86 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rebutting Lamar (Lithonia) ..this company will only be referred to as Crimerica in my reports

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

This will be the last time I'll be doing a report on Primerica. Before I get the shillers' hopes up, I know they're looking for free advertising on Ripoff Report which they won't get anymore from me so from now on, this company will only be referred to as Crimerica in my reports.

First let me apologize to the visitors of Ripoff Report for Crimerican's Lamar report. Due to fairness from the EDitor, he has to let Lamar put up his garbage report on this wonderful website. Now ask yourself what is Lamar saying that helps out the victims of Crimerica?

Quoting:

"First of all, you shouldn't jump to outlandish conclusions about a whole company just because you ran into an overly zealous rep from that company."
Which includes you Lamar. All the visitors have to do is check all the Ripoff Reports on this scumbag
company and other websites as well.

"_________ is a rated A++ company..." Not true, liar, since AM Best downgraded Crimerica.

"The same company that is the marketing arm for the Number 1 largest, most reputable company on the planet, Citigroup." Citigroup may or may not be the largest company, but there's no disputing they're the biggest bunch of crooks on this planet
(check their involvement with the Enron and Worldcom scams and the fact that they've been fined hundreds of millions of dollars by the government).

"Do you think that reputable subsidiary companies which I'm sure you HAVE heard of, like Citibank, CitiMortgage, and Smith Barney (Now named Legg Mason) would have a "sleazy underhanded pyramid" organization to do their marketing for them? Not likely, right?" Wrong shiller Lamar. Since scumbag
Citigroup is the biggest, most disreputable company on this planet, then it's not surprising that Crimerica is associated with them.

"IT IS NOT A J.O.B" Correction, it is a non-salaried J.O.B. and not an opportunity since none of the fat cats have started out as agents in
Crimerica, a pyramid-schemed company.

Now Lamar, why don't you go back to the pavement and hawk those trash policies. But before doing so, recite out loud to the entire world, the
following:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report? is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."
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#87 Consumer Comment

Hey Lamar...

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

You sound an awful lot like another Primerica shiller named Gary... Are you sure you're not the same person?

Your contention that Jason's experience is due to "one over-zealous" agent is laughable. I guess my similar experience was also with "one over-zealous" agent too, right? Thankfully I found this site before I fell for the scam.

All you have to do is look around. On this site alone there are hundreds of complaints about your company, the majority of them being the same: people were cold-called by a Primerica rep and told that they were wanted for a "management position in our area expansion." When they then go to the alleged "interview" they are shown a "presentation" with about 50 other people (what kind of interview is that?) and then asked to give 6 references and fork over $199 for "training." Seems to be more of a company-wide pattern here than an isoltaed incident.

The real reason that your company has to resort to this type of shenanigans has been pointed out by Leroy and others hundreds of times; your products are not competitive. If they were you could sell them on their merrits and people would be clamoring to join Primerica. Instead, Primerica has to resort to deceptively offering its "services" by claiming to offer some management position which has the earning potential of "hundreds of thousands of dollars a year." The names may change but the story is the same.

So yes, from where I sit your compnay is a scam, and you sir, are dishonest if you wish to claim that all of these incidents are "isolated examples."
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#88 Consumer Comment

Lamar in Lithonia

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Lamar says Jason shouldn't judge a company because of one person trying to recruit him using underhanded methods.

<
2. Lamar says Primerica is rated A++.
<< Primerica recently lost that rating. Unless they were upgraded very very recently, they are no longer A++.

3. Lamar claims primerica has followed an ethical standard of excellence for 29 years.
<<< Lamar does not mention that primerica changed its name to that because of the horrible reputation it had when it was Massachussetts Life and Indemnity Co, and the that MILICO and the founder of this MLM A.L. Williams were the subject of the only death penalty hearing the State of california Department of Insurance ever conducted. As a direct result of thate hearing california reformed the manner in which new agents become licensed.

4. Lamar mentions some favorable third party references.
<<< It is quite common for companies to run a favorable article about the subsidiary of some giant corporation in exchange for a large advertising commitment. Lamar doesn't mention unflattering portrayals of their methods. These are dismissed as "sour grapes" by primericans.

5. Lamar calls Citigroup the Number 1 company in the world and states it is reputable.

<< For the record, two other companies also claim to be the largest...more importantly, Lamar doesn't mention Citigroup was in bed with Enron, paid record fines for its role in the Enron debauchle, and then paid record class action settlements to defrauded investors. In my humble opinion that doesn't sound like a reputable company to me. It sounds like a company with a corporate culture that pushes the bounds of legality and ethics and sometimes crosses it.

6. Lastly, Lamar doesn't mention that primerica's insurance products are hopelessly overpriced and its loans are abominably overpriced. Lamar doesn't mention that in jack Guttenberg's book about mortgages his chapter on mortgage scams reads like the canned sales pitch primerica aims at its unsuspecting target audience.
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#89 UPDATE Employee

Note to Jason

AUTHOR: Lamar - (U.S.A.)

Jason, first let me apologize for the frustrating experience you had with Mr. Rob Sanker. I would say if what you said about how you were prospected and lead to come to the opportunity meeting is true, then I agree that agent was in the wrong. PFS reps should be careful about how they present the opportunity to people, and make sure they're not being dishonest about what we are about. Unfortunately, some agents give us a bad name because they're uncomfortable and careless about how they present our business to prospects.

Some agents may choose to use misleading "hooks" because they don't understand how great our company is, and don't realize that "hooks" are unnecessary here, and they may not yet feel 100% convicted about what they're doing, so they feel the need to hide our name behind Citigroup or disguise our "Business Opportunity Meetings" as if they were going to be 1-on-1 interviews just to get someone to come in. I don't agree with this tactic, and I don't do that. I'm very up-front and honest about my business opportunity and what kind of opportunity it is. This is a "for real" business, and it pays based on what you do, not on a position/title/college degree, or who you know. IT IS NOT A J.O.B., and I let folks know this up-front so they don't waste my time and I don't waste theirs. Got it? Now...,

This brings me to my main purpose of responding to your blasting report. First of all, you shouldn't jump to outlandish conclusions about a whole company just because you ran into an overly zealous rep from that company.

Secondly, who are you to say that Primerica is sleazy and underhanded when you never even experienced doing business with us? You had a run-in with one naive agent who was probably desperate to get a recruit, and you slam the whole company? What sense does that make? Primerica is a rated A++ company that has held an ethical standard of excellence for over 29 years?

A company that has been featured favorably in hundreds and hundreds of credible third-party publications, such as a popular consumer magazine, Fortune, Forbes, Wall Street Journal, Atlanta Journal Constitution, Kiplinger's Magazine, Essence Magazine, Success From Home Magazine, USA Today, etc. The same company that is the marketing arm for the Number 1 largest, most reputable company on the planet, Citigroup. Do you think that reputable subsidiary companies which I'm sure you HAVE heard of, like Citibank, CitiMortgage, and Smith Barney (Now named Legg Mason) would have a "sleazy underhanded pyramid" organization to do their marketing for them? Not likely, right?
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#90 Consumer Comment

p.s- to Brian

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Regarding the Mortgage Insurance being built into your loan rate the primerica rep can technically state that it is not built in...which is true. There is no separate charge that is rolled into the loan.

What primerica does is marketing genuis.....they don't require mortgage insurance from those with less than 20% equity like other lenders do. They make EVERYONE pay a higher interest rate which more than makes up for the losses they have on defaults by not requiring it. THEN they have the nerve to say "we don't charge for mortgage insurance".
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#91 Consumer Comment

Brian...some answers I hope

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

You asked;
<<< what is built in to a primerica loan.

Mortgage Insurance for one.....and I don't mean the type that pays off your loan if you or your spouse dies. I'm talking about the coverage that covers the lenders losses if you default. The primerica rep will tell you they don't charge for "PMI" as its called, but the reality is that Citibank has built the cost of defaults into their interest rates which are always 1-2% higher than you could get elsewhere.

<<
First of all, many banks apply the payment to the loan on the day its recieved. Its a primerica myth that they don't. Secondly, the interest savings on simple interest over scheduled are minimal on a loan. You can calculate the difference but it will take some math work.

What you do is figure the average daily balance of your loan over time using both methods. I can save you the trouble since I had a math professor do it for me during a similar debate a few years ago. Using the most optimal numbers favoring simple interest (paying the payment 29 days early each and every month) it was about $1200 per $100,000 on a 30 year loan.

When you calculate the difference in interest between a 6% loan and a 7.5% loan that difference is wiped out in a month.

<<< Is money being funneled into investments

Only into the investment accounts of Citibank and primerica executives peddling this trash. No money from the loan is being sent to an investment account for you. Anything your primerica rep shows you concerning investments is entirely separate and can be duplicated exactly elsewhere with or without a loan.

<<< you're gonna calculate

Good. Here is what I suggest.

Calculation #1..... Get all the primerica person's numbers. Get the amount of the biweekly payment. Then go call Countrywide or some other lender. See what interest rate they will give you based on your FICO, etc.....
Now take the exact same payment primerica asked for, plug it into your other loan offer, and see how long it takes to pay off the loan. You'll find out that the other companies loan will pay off 3-4 years earlier than primerica's loan. You can Google "how long to pay off my loan" for an online calculator. Assuming a 1.25% lower interest on a $250,000 loan this difference is $89,000.

Calculation #2....Find out how much lower your payment will be with the other company than with primerica....then invest that difference in an IRA or Roth IRA. Using 7.5% (the Standard & Poor 500 results over the last 50 years -1%)See how much money you will have in cash in 23 years when your loan is paid off. Assuming a $150 a month difference in payment you would accumulate $110,000 in 23 years.

Either of those two calculations will tell you how much more expensive the primerica loan really is. Simple interest and biweekly payment methods are smoke and mirrors designed to take your attention away from the higher interest rate.

<<< cannot pay your mortgage all at once unless you have a certain percentage.

That is absolutely not true. If you do just a little shopping you can find a loan with no prepayment penalty of any kind. Maybe your other loan had such a penalty but not all loans are the same in that regard.

<<< costs of refinancing

IMPORTANT POINT.......you don't need to refinance with primerica to cut down on the time before your laon pays off. The only savings that come from a biweekly plan is that you make the equivalent of 13 payments a year instead of 12. You can accomplish EXACTLY the same thing by paying an extra 8.33% of the principal and interest payment each month. Now you can shorten your loan and not incur any new expenses at all for refinancing.

<<<< you say the primerica loan is so simple its stupid.

You're half right.
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#92 Consumer Comment

Brian...some answers I hope

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

You asked;
<<< what is built in to a primerica loan.

Mortgage Insurance for one.....and I don't mean the type that pays off your loan if you or your spouse dies. I'm talking about the coverage that covers the lenders losses if you default. The primerica rep will tell you they don't charge for "PMI" as its called, but the reality is that Citibank has built the cost of defaults into their interest rates which are always 1-2% higher than you could get elsewhere.

<<
First of all, many banks apply the payment to the loan on the day its recieved. Its a primerica myth that they don't. Secondly, the interest savings on simple interest over scheduled are minimal on a loan. You can calculate the difference but it will take some math work.

What you do is figure the average daily balance of your loan over time using both methods. I can save you the trouble since I had a math professor do it for me during a similar debate a few years ago. Using the most optimal numbers favoring simple interest (paying the payment 29 days early each and every month) it was about $1200 per $100,000 on a 30 year loan.

When you calculate the difference in interest between a 6% loan and a 7.5% loan that difference is wiped out in a month.

<<< Is money being funneled into investments

Only into the investment accounts of Citibank and primerica executives peddling this trash. No money from the loan is being sent to an investment account for you. Anything your primerica rep shows you concerning investments is entirely separate and can be duplicated exactly elsewhere with or without a loan.

<<< you're gonna calculate

Good. Here is what I suggest.

Calculation #1..... Get all the primerica person's numbers. Get the amount of the biweekly payment. Then go call Countrywide or some other lender. See what interest rate they will give you based on your FICO, etc.....
Now take the exact same payment primerica asked for, plug it into your other loan offer, and see how long it takes to pay off the loan. You'll find out that the other companies loan will pay off 3-4 years earlier than primerica's loan. You can Google "how long to pay off my loan" for an online calculator. Assuming a 1.25% lower interest on a $250,000 loan this difference is $89,000.

Calculation #2....Find out how much lower your payment will be with the other company than with primerica....then invest that difference in an IRA or Roth IRA. Using 7.5% (the Standard & Poor 500 results over the last 50 years -1%)See how much money you will have in cash in 23 years when your loan is paid off. Assuming a $150 a month difference in payment you would accumulate $110,000 in 23 years.

Either of those two calculations will tell you how much more expensive the primerica loan really is. Simple interest and biweekly payment methods are smoke and mirrors designed to take your attention away from the higher interest rate.

<<< cannot pay your mortgage all at once unless you have a certain percentage.

That is absolutely not true. If you do just a little shopping you can find a loan with no prepayment penalty of any kind. Maybe your other loan had such a penalty but not all loans are the same in that regard.

<<< costs of refinancing

IMPORTANT POINT.......you don't need to refinance with primerica to cut down on the time before your laon pays off. The only savings that come from a biweekly plan is that you make the equivalent of 13 payments a year instead of 12. You can accomplish EXACTLY the same thing by paying an extra 8.33% of the principal and interest payment each month. Now you can shorten your loan and not incur any new expenses at all for refinancing.

<<<< you say the primerica loan is so simple its stupid.

You're half right.
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#93 Consumer Comment

Brian...some answers I hope

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

You asked;
<<< what is built in to a primerica loan.

Mortgage Insurance for one.....and I don't mean the type that pays off your loan if you or your spouse dies. I'm talking about the coverage that covers the lenders losses if you default. The primerica rep will tell you they don't charge for "PMI" as its called, but the reality is that Citibank has built the cost of defaults into their interest rates which are always 1-2% higher than you could get elsewhere.

<<
First of all, many banks apply the payment to the loan on the day its recieved. Its a primerica myth that they don't. Secondly, the interest savings on simple interest over scheduled are minimal on a loan. You can calculate the difference but it will take some math work.

What you do is figure the average daily balance of your loan over time using both methods. I can save you the trouble since I had a math professor do it for me during a similar debate a few years ago. Using the most optimal numbers favoring simple interest (paying the payment 29 days early each and every month) it was about $1200 per $100,000 on a 30 year loan.

When you calculate the difference in interest between a 6% loan and a 7.5% loan that difference is wiped out in a month.

<<< Is money being funneled into investments

Only into the investment accounts of Citibank and primerica executives peddling this trash. No money from the loan is being sent to an investment account for you. Anything your primerica rep shows you concerning investments is entirely separate and can be duplicated exactly elsewhere with or without a loan.

<<< you're gonna calculate

Good. Here is what I suggest.

Calculation #1..... Get all the primerica person's numbers. Get the amount of the biweekly payment. Then go call Countrywide or some other lender. See what interest rate they will give you based on your FICO, etc.....
Now take the exact same payment primerica asked for, plug it into your other loan offer, and see how long it takes to pay off the loan. You'll find out that the other companies loan will pay off 3-4 years earlier than primerica's loan. You can Google "how long to pay off my loan" for an online calculator. Assuming a 1.25% lower interest on a $250,000 loan this difference is $89,000.

Calculation #2....Find out how much lower your payment will be with the other company than with primerica....then invest that difference in an IRA or Roth IRA. Using 7.5% (the Standard & Poor 500 results over the last 50 years -1%)See how much money you will have in cash in 23 years when your loan is paid off. Assuming a $150 a month difference in payment you would accumulate $110,000 in 23 years.

Either of those two calculations will tell you how much more expensive the primerica loan really is. Simple interest and biweekly payment methods are smoke and mirrors designed to take your attention away from the higher interest rate.

<<< cannot pay your mortgage all at once unless you have a certain percentage.

That is absolutely not true. If you do just a little shopping you can find a loan with no prepayment penalty of any kind. Maybe your other loan had such a penalty but not all loans are the same in that regard.

<<< costs of refinancing

IMPORTANT POINT.......you don't need to refinance with primerica to cut down on the time before your laon pays off. The only savings that come from a biweekly plan is that you make the equivalent of 13 payments a year instead of 12. You can accomplish EXACTLY the same thing by paying an extra 8.33% of the principal and interest payment each month. Now you can shorten your loan and not incur any new expenses at all for refinancing.

<<<< you say the primerica loan is so simple its stupid.

You're half right.
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#94 Consumer Comment

hmmmm, interesting Leroy

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

Leroy,

It is nice to speak with someone that dosent start getting angry at intellectual comments.

To all that read leroys previous post, it states that primerica is a "LEGAL COMPANY" they are not breaking any laws and not scamming anyone. The math explains it all as leroy has said. primerica is running a business that is charging higher rates.

Now here is the question. what do they have built into these loans and refinancing?? they may have a higher cost, but are they funnelling that money to investments??? is there something built in. I am sitting down with a primerica rep over the next few days and will get to the bottom of this. If i calculate it and it turns out that there is that difference without built inkickers to Savings vehicles. i will let you know. but what they have told me so far, is their SMART loans are "simple interest" ok, so its a big car loan. but, they are fixed interest and you can pay them off quicker if you get extra money. on a morgage, you have fixed rate or baloon/flexible rate, plus you cannot pay off the mortgage all at once unless you have a certain percentage, but even then you have to possibly refinance.

Primericas stuff is so simple its stupid. That is why i am sitting down with the rep. to find out what is going on, and how they can get these rates.

I will keep all updated

B
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#95 Consumer Comment

response to Brian

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

I have never said primerica was a scam or illegal. They are perfectly legal. They just overcharge people.

You said "how can they be expanding and growing?'.
They are doing it slowly. Any new business can make great strides in growth simply by opening locations, even if the product is mediocre. PrimeShine Express is an example. However once a certain size has been attained growth gets more difficult.

According to Standard & Poor Primerica showed only a 2.5% growth rate in 2005. Thats really not very good.

The refinance boom is slowing down all through the industry so that means half trained neophytes will have a more difficult time getting people to refinance loans.

You say "so what if their rates are a little higher.....some people are willing to pay it for 1-on-1 service".

Its my opinion that the $97,000 extra a couple would pay for life insurance and interest on a $250,000 $MART loan is not "a little more" and if it were broken down for them in black-and-white they'd be ticked off.

Also, on every primerica policy I have ever replaced, and there have been a lot of them, the clients all said the same thing......."he/she sold me the policy, dropped out and I never heard from the company again except to get my bill each month".
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#96 Consumer Comment

question to leroy

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

I always have a ton of questions.

How is it that primerica is growing & expanding then??? How does the SEC not step in and stop them if they are screwing the people?? Or are there just alot of uninformed, gullable people out there??

I checked the SEC website. THey are valid and have no cases against them and have maintained all paperwork in accordance with their rules.

Better Business Bureau has also had complains, In GA i might add, with the company but all have been resolved.

Now it comes to your word vs primerica. All over the internet it seems that people disect primerica policys, but you know what??? Maybe people are willing to pay the little bit extra to get the 1 on 1 service. to know there is someone there that will come to your home. Every insurance agent will always suggest that you dont have enough coverage. They will "suggest" that you need more, weather it be auto/home/or life. They are there to bring home a paycheck.

Don't get me wrong there are agents out there that do fight for the people, but everyone is out for a buck.

Its is a persons choice if they want to but life or term. It is a persons opinion that determines how the 2 do in the business world. Primerica must be doing something right!!!!!

Brian

You seem to have all the answers anyway!!
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#97 Consumer Comment

question to leroy

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

I always have a ton of questions.

How is it that primerica is growing & expanding then??? How does the SEC not step in and stop them if they are screwing the people?? Or are there just alot of uninformed, gullable people out there??

I checked the SEC website. THey are valid and have no cases against them and have maintained all paperwork in accordance with their rules.

Better Business Bureau has also had complains, In GA i might add, with the company but all have been resolved.

Now it comes to your word vs primerica. All over the internet it seems that people disect primerica policys, but you know what??? Maybe people are willing to pay the little bit extra to get the 1 on 1 service. to know there is someone there that will come to your home. Every insurance agent will always suggest that you dont have enough coverage. They will "suggest" that you need more, weather it be auto/home/or life. They are there to bring home a paycheck.

Don't get me wrong there are agents out there that do fight for the people, but everyone is out for a buck.

Its is a persons choice if they want to but life or term. It is a persons opinion that determines how the 2 do in the business world. Primerica must be doing something right!!!!!

Brian

You seem to have all the answers anyway!!
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#98 Consumer Comment

question to leroy

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

I always have a ton of questions.

How is it that primerica is growing & expanding then??? How does the SEC not step in and stop them if they are screwing the people?? Or are there just alot of uninformed, gullable people out there??

I checked the SEC website. THey are valid and have no cases against them and have maintained all paperwork in accordance with their rules.

Better Business Bureau has also had complains, In GA i might add, with the company but all have been resolved.

Now it comes to your word vs primerica. All over the internet it seems that people disect primerica policys, but you know what??? Maybe people are willing to pay the little bit extra to get the 1 on 1 service. to know there is someone there that will come to your home. Every insurance agent will always suggest that you dont have enough coverage. They will "suggest" that you need more, weather it be auto/home/or life. They are there to bring home a paycheck.

Don't get me wrong there are agents out there that do fight for the people, but everyone is out for a buck.

Its is a persons choice if they want to but life or term. It is a persons opinion that determines how the 2 do in the business world. Primerica must be doing something right!!!!!

Brian

You seem to have all the answers anyway!!
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#99 Consumer Comment

question to leroy

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

I always have a ton of questions.

How is it that primerica is growing & expanding then??? How does the SEC not step in and stop them if they are screwing the people?? Or are there just alot of uninformed, gullable people out there??

I checked the SEC website. THey are valid and have no cases against them and have maintained all paperwork in accordance with their rules.

Better Business Bureau has also had complains, In GA i might add, with the company but all have been resolved.

Now it comes to your word vs primerica. All over the internet it seems that people disect primerica policys, but you know what??? Maybe people are willing to pay the little bit extra to get the 1 on 1 service. to know there is someone there that will come to your home. Every insurance agent will always suggest that you dont have enough coverage. They will "suggest" that you need more, weather it be auto/home/or life. They are there to bring home a paycheck.

Don't get me wrong there are agents out there that do fight for the people, but everyone is out for a buck.

Its is a persons choice if they want to but life or term. It is a persons opinion that determines how the 2 do in the business world. Primerica must be doing something right!!!!!

Brian

You seem to have all the answers anyway!!
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#100 Consumer Comment

Nathan repeating urban legends

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Nathan...you weren't educated about whole life. You were given a pack of outright lies, distortions and half truths, not an education. Before I tell you how it really works please note that 90% of the policies I sell are term insurance because its what fits the situation best the most often, however whole life can be the right solution in anumber of situations.

1. You have to borrow your own money.
<<<< Completely false!!! 100% false. This is an urban legend repeated through the ages. When you take a cash value loan the insurance company sends you THEIR money. YOUR money is held in the account as collateral for the loan and continues to collect interest. The average NET interest rate....(the amount they company charges you for their money and the amount you collect on yours) is 2% however many companies guarantee the NET interest rate will be zero.

2. If you die the company keeps your cash value. YOU DON'T GET BOTH

>>>>> A Half truth mixed with a bit of distortion. Only one type of cash value policy does that....an old fashioned whole life with no dividends. All other cash value policies can pay you both. If its a variable or universal life you can take Option B and at death the benficiary will recieve both the death benefit and the cash value. On a whole life with dividends if you use the dividends to purchase paid up additioins it means that your death benefit grows over time and
in essence you recieve both the cash value and the death benefit. I have one old whole life on the books that was originally a $25,000 policy. Now with paid up additions the death benefit has grown to almost $69,000 with the same premium. That is actually double what the original death benefit and cash value would have added up to.

3. The savings don't start for 4-5 years. It goes toward agent commissions.
<<<< A complete lie mixed in with a distortion. I only wish the commission levels on whole life were 400-500%. Then maybe I'd be one of those evil cash value agents you guys rant about (by the way...if you can still find an agent that only sells whole life find him and have him stuffed as a museum attraction...they rarely exist in nature anymore.)
When the cash value starts to build is entirely determined by how the policy is designed.
In actuality you can have a cash value policy that NEVER builds appreciable cash values. If its your desire to have a death benefit until you die and cash values are unimportant, you can structure a plan that way.
You can also have cash values start uin the first year. Again a matter of policy design. I have some small business owners that use their universal life policy like a bank account only with tax benefits. In good years they stuff it full of cash, in bad years they can take it out tax free.

4. If someone approaches you about this type of insurance RUN.
<<<< The real quote is "if anyone approaches you about life insurance ask one simple question. Which is better? Whole life or Term? If the first thing out of the person's mouth isn't IT DEPENDS, run as far as you can as fast as you can because you're about to hear a canned sales pitch.

That goes whethere the person approaching you is some half-trained primerican with a cursory knowledge of the business or someone from
Prudential with an armload of arrogance.

Finally Nathan, where will you be in 5 years...the odds are 99-1 you won't be with primerica next year at this time.

p.s nathan....did primerica tell you there are a half dozen other agencies where you can sell only term. The differences are you would make 80-100% commission from your very first policy you sold and so would each member of your downline AND that instead of selling insurance for one overpriced company (primerica) you would be licensed with literally dozens of other companies all of who sell term for much lower premiums than primerica

Nathan....did primerica tell you that you don't have to have a bi-weekly plan to shorten your mortgage? Did they tell you that by simply adding 8.33% to each principal and interest payment iy duplicates a bi-weekly plan exactly

Nathan...did primerica tell you the difference between simple and scheduled interest is negligible? It can be calculated mathematically.
Do it. INTEREST RATES DO MATTER because the rest of the stuff is just smoke and mirrors dsigned to hide the fact that primerica charges 1-2% more for loans and that the person can shorten the loan very easily without spending an extra $5-6,000 for a new loan.

Nathan...if primerica lied to you about these things and hid the truth from you....what else have they lied or omitted?
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#101 Consumer Suggestion

Cash Value is a RIPOFF

AUTHOR: Nathan - (U.S.A.)

My experience with Primerica was actually really good. When educated w/ how cash value really works it's a freakin' wonder why the industry allows such things. Reasons why:

1. If you want to use any cash value, YOU PAY INTEREST ON YOUR OWN MONEY! What sense does that make??!!

2. If you die, the company keeps the cash value. YOU DO NOT GET BOTH

3. Savings doesn't start until 4=5yrs after the policy. why? Goes toward agent commissions.

This kind of insurance is bogus, and if someone approaches you about it, RUN! That's why primerica teaches "buy term, invest the differnce" this is a HUGE philosophy b/c prudential sure as heck isn't stating that. W/ an investment that has averaged 12% for the last 30yrs? or a trash value that averages 6-8% no rate is guaranteed obviously, so all you have is a track record. Shame on you LEROY for promoting trash value. SHAME ON YOU! You keep writing it....primerica will keep replacing it.

As far as the opportunity goes, it seems most people in the world are just programmed negatively in general. That is just a fact of life. This business offers a real payoff for real hard work. Yes, that includes talking to people you don't know. What is wrong w/ that? See, most people are so consumed w/ themselves and the negativity they just let anything and everything be a reason NOT to look further into it. Let's try this, instead of asking why you shouldn't, ask yourself "why you SHOULD" where do you see yourself in the next 5yrs? is YOUR JOB/BOSS going to get you financially independent? That doesn't mean just pay the bills or get out of debt. BIG difference!! It means to live a life that allows you to do anything! This business opportunity is gold mine. if you TREAT it like one. If someone is so he!!bent on $199 than YOU NEED FINANCIAL HELP. What i say to people who are taken back by the opportunity in a negative way..is this.

If your paycheck doesn't convince you that you need extra money than NO ONE CAN CONVINCE you. you have to WANT this business, i dont' make motivated people....i SIMPLY FIND THEM! It's all numbers. Most people on here, are just so friggin' negative that i wouldn't want in a 50 mile radius of my baseshop. Brainwashed??? psshhhhhh, you people are killing me over here. YOU ARE THE ONES who are brainwashed....brainwashed into a life of mediocrity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! aren't you sick and tired of that? seriously, i ENCOURAGE you, look at your life, are you where you want to be financially? i'm willing to bet my next bonus you aren't, DO SOMETHING about it!!!!!!!!!!!!! quit getting on a message board bashing something that HELPS PEOPLE. Go change someones life! make some money. some of you talk about, 'let me see your pay statements" how about this: POST YOUR paycheck from your j.o.b?! and talk to me about why i should join YOUR company. what's funny too, is that people who listen to others that are worse off than they are. hahahahaha. i bet most people on here that are doing most of the bashing are not where they want to be financially. NEVER take advice from anyone on anything if they're more mixed up than you are. UN DANG BELIEVABLE. ok, i'm done. see all you primerica guys at the top b/c the bottom is pretty crowded...especially here. again folks...ask yourself these questions.

Do i LOVE my job?
Where will I be in 5yrs?
Do I have a game plan to be better off financially?
Will my tombstone say "Dud or Stud"
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#102 Consumer Comment

Michael in Texas

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

<
Bullfeathers! If the editor's permitted I could give you names and phone numbers of a half dozen national agencies doing the same thing. The difference is you'd be able to sell the products of 100s of companies instead of one overpriced one.....and you wouldn't have to give away your meager 25% beginner's commission to an "upline"...you'd make 80-100% commission from the very first policy you sold, and so would your downline.

<
That is just laughable. Have you ever checked it out for yourself or just believed the line PFS fed you? I can tell you right now I have two $5,000 accounts with a name brand national brokerage....and a representative who gets a commission assigned to it.

<
Once again, do a little research. I personally have sold several of them.

<<
BULLROAR!!! First of all you can buy FNAs on the internet for about 10 cents a dozen. Principal Life, New York Life, Prudential, etc...... all have their own version of the FNA. It has different names but its the same thing. All of them will tell you the same thing...you needs lots of life insurance and you need to save more for retirement. Yours throws in some stuff encouraging people to violate a cardinal rule of good financial planning...... didn't use home equity to pay for consumer goods. GOOD debt reduction plans have nothing to do with bi-weekly payment plans at loan rates 1-2% above the rest of the market with more debt added to pay for the huge new loan fees. Good debt reduction plans commit all extra money to the highest interest debt first and then to the next, etc.....

<<
All I can tell you is I have replaced numerous primerica term policies over the years and each and every one told me the same thing.......the person who sold them the policy quit within a short time and the only thing they ever heard from the company again was the monthly premium notice.
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#103 Consumer Comment

Michael in Texas

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

<
Bullfeathers! If the editor's permitted I could give you names and phone numbers of a half dozen national agencies doing the same thing. The difference is you'd be able to sell the products of 100s of companies instead of one overpriced one.....and you wouldn't have to give away your meager 25% beginner's commission to an "upline"...you'd make 80-100% commission from the very first policy you sold, and so would your downline.

<
That is just laughable. Have you ever checked it out for yourself or just believed the line PFS fed you? I can tell you right now I have two $5,000 accounts with a name brand national brokerage....and a representative who gets a commission assigned to it.

<
Once again, do a little research. I personally have sold several of them.

<<
BULLROAR!!! First of all you can buy FNAs on the internet for about 10 cents a dozen. Principal Life, New York Life, Prudential, etc...... all have their own version of the FNA. It has different names but its the same thing. All of them will tell you the same thing...you needs lots of life insurance and you need to save more for retirement. Yours throws in some stuff encouraging people to violate a cardinal rule of good financial planning...... didn't use home equity to pay for consumer goods. GOOD debt reduction plans have nothing to do with bi-weekly payment plans at loan rates 1-2% above the rest of the market with more debt added to pay for the huge new loan fees. Good debt reduction plans commit all extra money to the highest interest debt first and then to the next, etc.....

<<
All I can tell you is I have replaced numerous primerica term policies over the years and each and every one told me the same thing.......the person who sold them the policy quit within a short time and the only thing they ever heard from the company again was the monthly premium notice.
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#104 Consumer Comment

Michael in Texas

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

<
Bullfeathers! If the editor's permitted I could give you names and phone numbers of a half dozen national agencies doing the same thing. The difference is you'd be able to sell the products of 100s of companies instead of one overpriced one.....and you wouldn't have to give away your meager 25% beginner's commission to an "upline"...you'd make 80-100% commission from the very first policy you sold, and so would your downline.

<
That is just laughable. Have you ever checked it out for yourself or just believed the line PFS fed you? I can tell you right now I have two $5,000 accounts with a name brand national brokerage....and a representative who gets a commission assigned to it.

<
Once again, do a little research. I personally have sold several of them.

<<
BULLROAR!!! First of all you can buy FNAs on the internet for about 10 cents a dozen. Principal Life, New York Life, Prudential, etc...... all have their own version of the FNA. It has different names but its the same thing. All of them will tell you the same thing...you needs lots of life insurance and you need to save more for retirement. Yours throws in some stuff encouraging people to violate a cardinal rule of good financial planning...... didn't use home equity to pay for consumer goods. GOOD debt reduction plans have nothing to do with bi-weekly payment plans at loan rates 1-2% above the rest of the market with more debt added to pay for the huge new loan fees. Good debt reduction plans commit all extra money to the highest interest debt first and then to the next, etc.....

<<
All I can tell you is I have replaced numerous primerica term policies over the years and each and every one told me the same thing.......the person who sold them the policy quit within a short time and the only thing they ever heard from the company again was the monthly premium notice.
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#105 Consumer Comment

Michael in Texas

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

<
Bullfeathers! If the editor's permitted I could give you names and phone numbers of a half dozen national agencies doing the same thing. The difference is you'd be able to sell the products of 100s of companies instead of one overpriced one.....and you wouldn't have to give away your meager 25% beginner's commission to an "upline"...you'd make 80-100% commission from the very first policy you sold, and so would your downline.

<
That is just laughable. Have you ever checked it out for yourself or just believed the line PFS fed you? I can tell you right now I have two $5,000 accounts with a name brand national brokerage....and a representative who gets a commission assigned to it.

<
Once again, do a little research. I personally have sold several of them.

<<
BULLROAR!!! First of all you can buy FNAs on the internet for about 10 cents a dozen. Principal Life, New York Life, Prudential, etc...... all have their own version of the FNA. It has different names but its the same thing. All of them will tell you the same thing...you needs lots of life insurance and you need to save more for retirement. Yours throws in some stuff encouraging people to violate a cardinal rule of good financial planning...... didn't use home equity to pay for consumer goods. GOOD debt reduction plans have nothing to do with bi-weekly payment plans at loan rates 1-2% above the rest of the market with more debt added to pay for the huge new loan fees. Good debt reduction plans commit all extra money to the highest interest debt first and then to the next, etc.....

<<
All I can tell you is I have replaced numerous primerica term policies over the years and each and every one told me the same thing.......the person who sold them the policy quit within a short time and the only thing they ever heard from the company again was the monthly premium notice.
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#106 Consumer Suggestion

Michael of Pasadena Show Us The Proof

AUTHOR: Annie - (U.S.A.)

Michael of Pasedena, Texas

Michael, just how long have you been with Primerica? Are you full time? What has been the bottom line for your Schedule Cs for the past two years? I'm just curious, because as you probably have noticed, most Primerica agents post kudos to the company and then when asked to back up their data, they disappear forever from this site. I, as well as many other visitors of this site, would love to see some real numbers.

That said, as for your company being the only one to offer a "free financial needs analysis," that is pure bull. Farm Bureau does the same thing. How do I know? Because I had one done a couple of years ago. The results? Pretty much the same as I have seen with Primerica FNAs -- of course it came back and said I was low in life insurance and needed to diversify my portfolio -- with their products of course.

You guys make me laugh.

You mention that you try to make a living...do you bother to mention to your "clients" that your living is made from charging two to three times the industry average for life insurance and that your SMART loan is typically 2 to 3 percentage points higher than a loan through a local bank and that amortization schedules illustrate that your SMART loan really saves the consumer nothing? And please don't lecture me about the "hidden fees" of those loans...I have asked over and over that Primerica reps elaborate on the whole "hidden fee" issue, and no one has come forward.

Please respond...not with glossy overviews but with hard and fast numbers. If Primerca reps are truly in the financial needs arena that should be easy to do....
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#107 UPDATE Employee

Open your closed mind

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

I am an agent with Primerica and would like to say first and foremost, that primerica is a unique business opportunity and the people who work with primerica are very unique. The ability to be opened minded in this business is what makes us unique. We are passionate about helping middle income families get out of debt and become financially independent. Big financial sevice companies wont even look twice at a client for less than 50,000.00 in investments. In fact, they
don't make a comission for less than that.

We are the only Financial Service provider that gives middle income families a chance to retire finacially independent with investments as small as 25.00 per month. We are the only company that provides a free financial needs analysis that show those families the whole picture concerning their finances. Other companies can charge as much as 500.00 to 5,000.00 to do their Financial Needs Analysis. It has been my experience over and over again, as well as my ethical practice, that we don't solicit services to these families unless there is a need for that service. In other words, If they allready have the proper life insurance coverage, we tell them that it is a good policy and leave it at that. If they allready have a good current mortgage situation, we tell them so. But, the Financial needs Analysis is not where we end our relationship with our clients, it is the beginning.

We follow up on a continual basis to help with future needs and they remain our clients as long as they need us (Even if they don't spend money with us) and we still continually get referrels from them, so we must be doing something right. We go above and beyond to give the utmost in customer satisfaction regardless of the money spent because we actually care about our clients and that is a rarety in the financial sevices industry.

Another thing... We are all trying to make a living. The other unique thing about Primerica is that you can have a great income, because I do, but you have to want to help people and you have to have an attitude of meeting their needs first. Now, if you want a job, this is not a j-o-b. This is a crusade to open peoples eyes to the reality of how money really works and help those people that want the help. If I ever see anyone in Primerica ripping people off, I am obligated, and I will turn them in to the proper authorities. However up to this point I have seen nothing but good in this company and I feel totally blessed to be a part of what they are doing. I hope I havn't hurt your feelings and I'm truly sorry for your bad experience in the past, but at some point it is time to move on. I hope all your dreams come true
in life. Thanks for being open minded enough to read my rebuttle. Michael
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#108 Consumer Comment

gary incorrectly says primerica is a division of citigroup

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Gary incorrectly says primerica is a "marketing division of Citigroup". It is not. It is a wholly owned subsidiary. The difference is that if Primerica was a division of Citigroup, then Citigroup's $1 Trillion in assets could be used to pay primerica policyholder's claim should primerica ever fail. Since it is merely a subsidiary, Citigroup has absolutely no legal obligation whatsoever to ever pay a penny towards a primerica policy claim.

They could infuse primerica with cash if they chose to...... but that would be strictly voluntary and based on corporate ethics. Since Citigroup just paid $2 BILLION in regulatory fines and class action settlements ( a new corporate record) good luck on getting them to act ethically.
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#109 Consumer Comment

Thanxs,Gary

AUTHOR: Dallas - (U.S.A.)

Gary,God bless,and Thank you for your responses.I also would like to Thank the Ripoff report for their great work in helping people get the word out about shady companies.God Bless all!-Dallas
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#110 Consumer Comment

Leroy in CA

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

Leroy,

If you would of read my post more carefully you would of realized that i said,

"From my own status in life and having my own cash life policy through work, realizing that my wife and child only get my yearly salary to bury me and get themselves set up to move on with life in the event of my death. "

Where did you get that i had a term plan through work?? I said that it is a nice security cushion to have.

Do you think that i work for primerica?? Cause I don't. Do i have questions on term insurance. Nope.

I also stated in paragraph 11,"that is why you shop around"

I use examples of experences that different people that i know/known have had with life insurance companies as examples. They arent ?'s. they actually happened, they are good questions to ask agents as your consider their policies.

the posts that i put up are objective. You must understand that if you see a question there is more than one meaning. Also, it may not be a question that needs to be answered.

But as for your advice, it is good advice, for a younger person that is inexperienced in this field.

As for the car i drive, ir gets 32 miles to the gallon and is a domestic, plus, i dont like suv's

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#111 Consumer Comment

Leroy in CA

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

Leroy,

If you would of read my post more carefully you would of realized that i said,

"From my own status in life and having my own cash life policy through work, realizing that my wife and child only get my yearly salary to bury me and get themselves set up to move on with life in the event of my death. "

Where did you get that i had a term plan through work?? I said that it is a nice security cushion to have.

Do you think that i work for primerica?? Cause I don't. Do i have questions on term insurance. Nope.

I also stated in paragraph 11,"that is why you shop around"

I use examples of experences that different people that i know/known have had with life insurance companies as examples. They arent ?'s. they actually happened, they are good questions to ask agents as your consider their policies.

the posts that i put up are objective. You must understand that if you see a question there is more than one meaning. Also, it may not be a question that needs to be answered.

But as for your advice, it is good advice, for a younger person that is inexperienced in this field.

As for the car i drive, ir gets 32 miles to the gallon and is a domestic, plus, i dont like suv's

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#112 Consumer Comment

Leroy in CA

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

Leroy,

If you would of read my post more carefully you would of realized that i said,

"From my own status in life and having my own cash life policy through work, realizing that my wife and child only get my yearly salary to bury me and get themselves set up to move on with life in the event of my death. "

Where did you get that i had a term plan through work?? I said that it is a nice security cushion to have.

Do you think that i work for primerica?? Cause I don't. Do i have questions on term insurance. Nope.

I also stated in paragraph 11,"that is why you shop around"

I use examples of experences that different people that i know/known have had with life insurance companies as examples. They arent ?'s. they actually happened, they are good questions to ask agents as your consider their policies.

the posts that i put up are objective. You must understand that if you see a question there is more than one meaning. Also, it may not be a question that needs to be answered.

But as for your advice, it is good advice, for a younger person that is inexperienced in this field.

As for the car i drive, ir gets 32 miles to the gallon and is a domestic, plus, i dont like suv's

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#113 Consumer Comment

Brian in St Pointe.

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

I'll quickly answer a few of your questions about a term life policy owned individually and not through your company.

You mentioned two things you had questions about.
One was what happens if you have a terminal illness. If the policy you purchase has a Terminal Illness Rider they will pay a portion of the death benefit to you while you're still kicking. Its usually 50% of the death benefit. The other 50% comes to your beneficiaries after death. This is why I think you should find someone other than your car/home agent to talk to about life insurance. They can find one for you that has that Rider. Your car/home agent typically has only one company to offer and if its State Farm, Allstate or Farmers, their term insurance is as grossly overpriced as Primerica is.

I have never seen a company have a separate charge for a Terminal Illness Rider.

The other was about the company looking for a way to get out of a claim. You have a protection there. The Uncontestable Clause is universal among all companies as far as I know. It states that if death occurs more than two years after you took out the policy the company cannot contest the claim. As long as you don't tell a MATERIAL lie on the application, like saying you're a non-smoker when you do or omitting something important in your health history, like diabetes or cancer, you have no worries of it being contested. Also, there is a suicide clause saying even that is covered as long as you wait two years to do yourself in.

I strongly suggest you look at term insurance owned separate from your employment. Its really cheap, unless you buy from primerica, and you can take it with you from job to job. A healthy non-smoking male can buy a 20 year $250,000 policy for as little as $24 a month...less if you're very healthy.

The gas thing irritates me. You talked about patriotism and the path we chose. For the last 15 years I have been one of those ranting and raving about SUVs and big pickups for people with no practrical use for them. Far too many people chose to buy these gas guzzlers because they were in style or looked cool. Some had to have an SUV because they were too vain to buy a 25 mpg station wagon instead that would be just as practical to take the kids to soccer practice. Everytime I saw someone commuting back and forth to work in a 16 mpg SUV or big pickup that was never used to go offroad and never used to haul things I'd think about how someday this country would have a day of reckoning because of the law of supply and demand. That day is here.!

I never begrudged anyone who needed an SUV because they lived in snow country...or who needed one for work...like a caterer. I always begrudged people like my buddy, who is a mobile Notary Public, who just had to have one because he thought they were just so cool. I advised him to buy a car that got good gas mileage instead but gas was $1.59 then. Now whenever he wants to b***h about the oil companies I just stop him in his tracks. Same goes for the secretary in the office next door. She is 24, only uses a vehicle to commute and for pleasure, but she HAD to have a a huge Ford pickup because she always wanted one. Now she complains that its costing her $80 a week to keep that 13 mpg gas guzzler on the road. Tough cookies in my opinion.

Good luck researching term insurance. There are multiple sites on the internet where you can get quotes right away from all the best carriers.
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#114 UPDATE Employee

Hi Dallas, the internet is not regulated or controlled. It has grown so fast no government agency could keep up with that kind of growth

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

The reason I said to go offline is because the internet is not regulated or controlled. It has grown so fast no government agency could keep up with that kind of growth, to regulate the internet effectively anyway. My point was that anyone can say anything on here but it may or may not be the whole truth. (I use the internet when I'm comparing the pro's & cons for when I'm purchasing a car or truck. But if I used this site, or any like it - exclusively, I probably would never buy a truck or a car as I would hear all the negative "STUFF", enuff to immobilize me to do nothing or just give up! "Deer in the headlights syndrome ... lol")

The publications (magazines) at the public library are bi-weekly or monthly ... so I'm sure they're up to date, correct? These information sources (in bookstores, libraries, etc.) are copyrighted & anything said there must stand up to scrutiny as to accuracy or the author & publisher can get taken to court for libel and or damages.

If I were in a cult as you say, then I would want you to stay away from anything truthful or objective. The people who post negative stuff here about PFS have a right to vent, but they do not want you to have the truth, so using your analogy, these nay-sayers, whiners, complainers, and industry cronies must belong to a cult also, as they do not want to hear the truth! True or false? I mearly said to go to library so you could get un-biased information. Even mine is biased (even tho it's the truth) it is biased thru my own experiences in this industry.

So you've known about Primerica for 13 years but only went on one appointment, does that make you an authority or an expert? I've represented the company since Jan. 1985. We've (Primerica) been in business since 1977 (29 years) and I repeat ... we are not a pyramid scheme or anything even close to that. Believe me our opposition has tried repeatedly to run us out of business using every tactic immaginable! But everytime we win!

You want to talk about pyramids, check out the Lottery or Social In- Security! Those are pyramids, millions of people pay in but only a few collect. (These were legalized by the government, so they're a pyramid that's been made legal thru government legislation.)

Actually we're a hybrid of the real estate business. We must be licensed, and complete annual compliance as well as continueing education requirements (in my State 12 hrs for Life & Heath plus an additonal 12 hours for Prop. & Casualty Insurance) plus licensed in mortgages & securities. (with continueing education requirements in those two areas also.) Plus no one makes any money recruiting a new rep. That would be a pyramid! Which is illegal!

Have you ever trained anyone where you work? It's probably easier to do the work yourself, wouldn't you agree? But did your company pay you to train those people & didn't you duplicate yourself once you had trained them? Thus you made the company more productive, true or false?? Wouldn't it make sense if they paid you an extra $10,000 bonus (each and every year) once you had trained that one person? But they didn't did they?? And if you suggested they do that, they'd probably send for the men in the "white coats", right??

Citigroup does have deep pockets as they're the #1 in the World in profits & assets. If we did anything illegal, they would have gotten in deep doo doo, correct? We not only have to maintain legal operations in the USA, but Guam, Canada, Puerto Rico, Spain & Great Brittain. We're a marketing division for them & they're puting everything in place for us to market to middle income families ... who have gotten pretty much ignored by the financial services industry.

Yes, that makes us controversial when we go against the traditional industry. But it does not make us a scam or pyramid as you suggest. When our parent company Travelers was approached by Citibank to merge, we had to go to the President, Alan Greenspan (Federal Reserve) who's now retired & Congress to get the Glass-Stiegle Act Repealed. If we were a pyramid or scam, how did we accomplish all of this, not to mention complying with other country's laws, in less than 12 months?

If we're so bad as you and others believe, why hasn't the national media gotten a hold of Us & done an "expose"? If any media did that, we would look sooooo magnificent, that people would be beating down our doors wanting our help and/or an interview! We could not handle that many people! But within the next 5-7 years we will!
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#115 Consumer Comment

In response to Gary

AUTHOR: Dallas - (U.S.A.)

Gary,I don't know how observant or inquisitive of a person that you are,but you seemed to miss a few of my words in my previous comment.I stated that,I am very familiar with Premerica,I have been for 13 years.One of my relatives worked with them for a while and I once accompanied them on one of their lead calls.The way that the presentation works is staunchly similar to how a cult recruiter works,Charisma,evasion,and show me the money seem to be the 3 steps.

Gary,something else,did you tell me to go offline and go to my public library?And to not look at the postings?That is another way that a cult works,a cult that has something to hide would not want true scrutiny,and would discourage a thourough investigative look into their finances or history.Yes,the public library is a good source of information,but many of their sources are outdated,and also,wouldn't it be more useful to go to the public library plus read the Internet postings?That is what you would call a thourough scrutiny.

I believe Gary,my friend,that the definition of a Pyramid scheme is a scheme that recruits other people in order for somebody else to make money,similar to fraudulant chain letters that many people may have receieved in the mail.Gary,I would sure hate for the SEC to bust Premerica and you go to jail,and I feel that day is not too far off.So why not get the facts and stop this questionable mess while you still can?And also,do you not feel the least bit bad for taking somebody's elderly relative's hard earned cash,and giving it to a remorseless leader who doesn't care?Gary,I know you have more sense then that.
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#116 UPDATE Employee

To Dallas in OK

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Yes, I have checked out Primerica & what they do to help families through other 3rd party sources. My answers may seem "canned" & that may be due to the fact I've been with Primerica so long & have heard nearly every excuse why this business will not work, but I've found it does work for those willing to be coachable & willing to work! Primerica has been here for the past 29 years!

The people on this site who find fault may have had one bad experience with PFS, and have passed judgement or have read the biased negative reports here. We are not a cult, scam or pyramid scheme. This is a "for real" opportunity, however, people will only be successful unless they choose to be.

Try going off the "net" and go to the public library & check out these 3rd party books/magazines in print (not in any order):

"177 Mental Toughness Secrets of the World Class", by Steve Siebold.
"What all stock & mutual fund investors should know!" by Bruce N. Sankin
"What's Wrong with your Life Insurance" by Norman Dacey.
"Success from Home" Magazine Volume 1 issue 3, July 2005.
"Primerica King of Term" AM Best Review.

New York Times best selling Author - David Bach & his book about "Finishing Rich".

These will give you a starting point....
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#117 UPDATE Employee

To Dallas in OK

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Yes, I have checked out Primerica & what they do to help families through other 3rd party sources. My answers may seem "canned" & that may be due to the fact I've been with Primerica so long & have heard nearly every excuse why this business will not work, but I've found it does work for those willing to be coachable & willing to work! Primerica has been here for the past 29 years!

The people on this site who find fault may have had one bad experience with PFS, and have passed judgement or have read the biased negative reports here. We are not a cult, scam or pyramid scheme. This is a "for real" opportunity, however, people will only be successful unless they choose to be.

Try going off the "net" and go to the public library & check out these 3rd party books/magazines in print (not in any order):

"177 Mental Toughness Secrets of the World Class", by Steve Siebold.
"What all stock & mutual fund investors should know!" by Bruce N. Sankin
"What's Wrong with your Life Insurance" by Norman Dacey.
"Success from Home" Magazine Volume 1 issue 3, July 2005.
"Primerica King of Term" AM Best Review.

New York Times best selling Author - David Bach & his book about "Finishing Rich".

These will give you a starting point....
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#118 UPDATE Employee

To Dallas in OK

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Yes, I have checked out Primerica & what they do to help families through other 3rd party sources. My answers may seem "canned" & that may be due to the fact I've been with Primerica so long & have heard nearly every excuse why this business will not work, but I've found it does work for those willing to be coachable & willing to work! Primerica has been here for the past 29 years!

The people on this site who find fault may have had one bad experience with PFS, and have passed judgement or have read the biased negative reports here. We are not a cult, scam or pyramid scheme. This is a "for real" opportunity, however, people will only be successful unless they choose to be.

Try going off the "net" and go to the public library & check out these 3rd party books/magazines in print (not in any order):

"177 Mental Toughness Secrets of the World Class", by Steve Siebold.
"What all stock & mutual fund investors should know!" by Bruce N. Sankin
"What's Wrong with your Life Insurance" by Norman Dacey.
"Success from Home" Magazine Volume 1 issue 3, July 2005.
"Primerica King of Term" AM Best Review.

New York Times best selling Author - David Bach & his book about "Finishing Rich".

These will give you a starting point....
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#119 Consumer Comment

Leroy, California

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

Point taken. Gratned, gas is a bad thing to compare to. I am sure i am sticking my foot in my mouth by saying that the big companies could help us all out and try to keep our country great. What do i mean by this?? I mean taking money and funnelling it towards charities. I am sure that they do support some charities and organizations.

But, where do you put 157 billion in profits for the current fiscal year for only one company?? Suggestions?

Yes they can charge what they want and it is capitolism. But don't we want to work to better ourselves rather than the acquisition of wealth?? With that amount of money, why not direct it at NASA, or cancer research, or something that will save lives?

Am I a patriot and stand behind my country. Yeppers. Do i feel sorry for the people under opression and with no food to eat. Yes. Do i give to charity when i can. Yuppers again.

But we must learn from our past mistakes, Ex. throwing money at a problem, aka Band aid solutions as they are sometimes called, and find a real solution to the problem. Will everyone agree on the solution. No.

There are a lot of companies that thrive on supply and demand becuase of our dependence that we have created. Is it our fault?? Nope. This is the way and path that we have created for ourselves. We are just responsible to make sure that we pick the right fork in road when we encounter it in the future.

From my own status in life and having my own cash life policy through work, realizing that my wife and child only get my yearly salary to bury me and get themselves set up to move on with life in the event of my death. A term plan is a nice added security cushion. But, if i leave the company, bye bye policy and all that i have paid into it.

If I go inactive for a certain period of days, the policy dosent have to pay out if i die. That is the scary thing about these policys. There are quite a few "strings" attached. What happens if you die of a terminal illness, what did you die of, what was going on at the time that you died. There are sooo many different reasons that the companies dont need to pay out on your policy.

Is Primerica forcing something down your throat that you dont necessarrly need. maybe/maybe not. It depends on your current status and what you feel that you need in the future.

If you ask an agent about whole life or term insurance and they say "it depends" They may have different vehicles of insurance, different levels to offer, and different plans. I am coming upon the age where i have to make these decisions for my future and have the capabilites to make this plan.

I spent an hour with my current agent and he explained the differences, the pros and cons of all their policies, and the different savings vehicles that they had just introdued into their portfolio. If an agent said to me "it depends" I would respect that agent and be more than willing to sit down with the person to hear them out. Which I just recently did with my auto/home insurance agent. Would I sign something on the spot?? Absolutely not. That is why you shop around.

That is the wonderful thing aboout our capitolistic, free society. The ability to choose what we want, when we want it, how much, and justify it how we want.

Most people nowadays do not have a lot of financial expertiese and are working along as they cross the diffrent thresholds of life. Thank god for the internet. The best source of information, granted you have to be careful of sources that you find, but it helps those that dont understand.

All opinions are based on point of view or experience. Just remember what works for one may not work for another. Ex. that is why tide detergent comes in a 100oz, 200oz, and 300oz size. I will prolly get yelled at for that one, but that is summarizing it pretty basically.

I dont like to pick fights, i would rather see a solution to the problem rather than fighting. If you have had a problem with a company, lodge your complaint and move on. If you feel youhave been treated unfairly, talk to the company, if you are not satisfied, go to the BBB. there are organizations out there to help. If you have satisfied all of these and are still not satisfied with the results, i am sure you could seek legal advice, but is it really worth it?? Is the US sue happy?? I dont know. We have the power to make choices. if we make a bad one, learn from it and move on. Dont hold a grudge, as life is too short!

Brian
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#120 Consumer Comment

I think that Primerica is similar to a Cult.

AUTHOR: Dallas - (U.S.A.)

I have been familiar with Primerica for more then 13 years and until the Ripoff Report was created,I always wondered if they were a Ripoff.What seems to be eery to me is that when Primerica representatives like Gary respond,they post in a similar way that many Cult members and Internet trolls do.Gary shows signs that are indicators that he has been brainwashed,because when confronting him with issues he seems to give rehearsed answers. Such is the style with many cults. There are many questionable businesses that I will not name here that operate in the same style as Premerica.What it all boils down to is that the leaders are wanting to make money.People at the bottom like Gary pay all the leaders bills,but in the long run it gets them nowhere.I would like to issue a few words of observation if I may.But leaders of Primerica and other cult like businesses like publicity whether it be good or bad. It generates curiousity which brings them more business. Gary,I would encourage you to check the facts about Primerica before giving your rehearsed answers.
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#121 Consumer Comment

Brian in Wisconsin

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Brian asks why would anyone own anything other than term insurance. The answer is "because you want a permanent death benefit for some reason".
Those who might want one are;
..... the little old lady who wants to make sure her family doesn't have to come up with $7,500 of their own money to bury her,
..... the person retiring who wants the maximum monthly payout from his pension plan but wants the spouse to not get left short if death comes early in retirement and cuts off the pension immediately,
.....the person who has a special needs child and doesn't want that child to become a financial burden to the siblings after his/her death,
..... the person who is more concerned with a return OF their premium money, not a return ON the premium money
.....the person who wants funds unemcumbered by debtors or taxes or liquidity concerns available for the family almost instantaneously after death.

Those are a few, but I have left out the most important one.....the person who wants a permanent death benefit "just because".

Is cash value insurance right for everyone. Absolutely not!!!!! Is it right for anyone at all? Absolutely!!!!

If someone approaches you about life insurance, ask one simple question. "Which is better, whole life or term?" If the person's immediate answer is not "IT DEPENDS" run as far as you can as fast as you can.

p.s- Brian, gas companies are allowed to charge whatever they want for their product, just as you the homeowner obeyed the laws of supply and demand and asked double and triple the price you paid for your home 10 years ago...the oil companies can ask $3 a gallon for gas now. Its no different. They have it, you want it, you have to pay or go without. The only difference is since you're the one paying the price instead of asking the price your angry emotions have replaced your admiration of capitalism
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#122 Consumer Comment

Gary in Wichita

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Primerica will be larger than all the rest of the companies combined?????????????????

Tell me you didn't say that.

The Insurance Information Institute saysthere are 1,000 companies selling life insurance. Gary the PFS guy says there are 500. Lets see.....do I believe they guy who told me his mutual fund made over 18% compounded for 20 years when no record of such a mutual fund exists...or do I believe a credible source?

Do I believe the guy who after 20 years in the business quoted an urban myth rather than basic insurance knowledge when he sais "you have to borrow your own money from a cash value policy"...or do I believe a credible source.

Do I believe the guy who said "primerica is riding a tidal wave of name recognition" while they still only mention Citigroup in the first recruitment conversation...or do I believe a credible source?

Do I believe the guy who said "interest rates on a loan don't matter"....or do I believe a credible source?

Do I believe the guy who said of the company that had an anemic premium growth rate of 2.5% in 2005
"we will be larger than the rest of the industry combined...or do I believe a credible source?

I'll go with the credible source. In reality whether there are 500 companies selling life insurance like you incorrectly claim, or 1,000 it still doesn't effect the facts that;
1. primerica's life insurance is highly overpriced
2. primerica's home loans are highly overpriced
3. 99.9% of primerica's sales force are undertrained part-timers with no real knowledge of the business simply repeating a company sales track full of half truths and distortions...and the other 0.1% is cynical beyond belief.

Gary, as far as your life history goes you have made too many switchbacks, contradictions and vague statements for me or anyone else to have followed. Basically the only real relevance it has is that you illustrate how with primerica someone can be around for 20 years and still not know the basics of the industry he is in.
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#123 UPDATE Employee

Rebuttal to Leroy in Tulare, CA

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

You are certainly in the wrong business. You would make a great "spin doctor" for re-electing one of our politicians.

You're the one who accused me of being NEW, not I! When I said "leave of absense" I simply meant I stopped working towards my next promotion to RVP. I did not say I stopped working. I said I met all of the requiredments to keep my license active. Period! I know I can't "park" my securities license as you accused me of for 6-years. I did work but only part-time or some-time as I took care of my parents needs. I guess my point in all of that was the PFS has no quotas to meet, therefore, I had no pressure on me to produce. I had a job that paid the bills, remember?

Citibank does offer credit cards, so does just about every bank! They're not for people to abuse - but to use as a tool. But they don't come with a set of instructions ... do they? Alot of places now will not take personal checks especially when traveling. Citibank is our parent company, that gives us access to all of their other companies. YOU're right on that part, as we can cross-sell, but PFS does not market their credit cards! I own their products & their credit card, but I pay it off when the bill comes (if I use it).

Repeat - 500 companies that "sold" life insurance - ie - placed new business! I know there's a lot more that "Have it" to sell, but actually sold a policy last year... it's less than 500 companies. (closer to 200 actually) Exactly my point, the industry is getting smaller thru mergers, buy-outs & some co's actually don't exist anymore. They're dying while we're growing. Our prediction: within the next 5-7 years we (PFS) will be larger than the whole combined "industry". I know you will somehow pull out numbers that will disagree. But time will tell.... won't it?

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#124 Consumer Comment

It's all based on Point of View

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

Q:What is the reason that different companies exist?

A:Cause they all have differnt ideals and different goals that they are trying to attain.

Everyone knows that the reason walmart was created was to help the consumer to get the lowest "bottom-line price" or "rollback". Execs from the company have said they are the representatives of the consumer or "representative". (MSNBC Fall 05)

Is this true?? They have become the largest retailer in the nation. They must be doing something right. Right?? Well, from my friends I hear how they hate walmart and will not shop there and all that. 2 days later, i see them at walmart. aka Playing both sides of the coin

If you are going to make and argument against Primerica, keep one thing in mind. This is a company that believes that everyone should have a term life policy rather than a cash life policy. Why would you not?? Having this policy and kicking some of those moneys into a savings vehicle?? Most cash do not offer that. I know mine just started offering it.

Saving for retirement is important as the future of Social Security is uncertain. Yes you have your 401k from work, and you contribute x% to it a paycheck and you know every quater how much you are vested in it and how much the company has matched. But, what happens when the company dosent exist anymore and you are left with this 401k?? Someone needs to help you re-route it. or if you get a different job the standard is to re-route it to the new job and continue to let it grow.

In time, who knows how long, everyone will understand that there are differnt points of view on every topic in the world.

I am not pro-primerica I am not negative primerica. They have a point. why pay for a cash policy when you can have a term policy that you have control over.

Don't we pay monthly/biannually/or annually for something called auto insurance?? this has differnt deductibles and all kinds of other "bells and whistles" attached to it, but does one consider that everytime that they get into a vehicle, they take their life into their own hands, or into the hands of the driver?? There is a book "Licensed to kill; the incompetent American motorist and how he got that way" by Ronald M Weiers. This book explains what has happend.

To Summarize:

Have I been brainwashed? I dont think so. Did I have a money mgmt class in high school. yes. Do I manage my own finances. Yes. Am I responsible for other lives?? Ex. my wife and child. Yes.

What makes us different is our differnt situations and upbringing, not that we feel that we are being scammed. If there was a pyramid scheme in place at Primerica, they would of been shut down a long time ago. The SEC doesn't allow for any deviation from the law. Is it legal to have a pyramid like power structure, also referred to commonly as a hirearchy, which every business runs on. Most corporations either have a top person or a board.

PS: We pay weekly for gas and the companies make billions upon billions. Now that is a scam!

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#125 Consumer Comment

Yo gary

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

You once again say you've been with PFS forever, but when I said you had you denied it. Make up your mind.

You say all those mergers were done so Citigroup could take financial services to middle class consumers and help them get out of debt?????
LOLOLOLOLOLOL Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Puh-leeeeeeeeze. Heck, just yesterday my wife and I both got unsolicited offers for preapproved credit cards from CitiCards and a notice from CitiFinancial that they had a $25,000 unsecured loan for us ready to be picked up....once again unsolicited. All we needed to do was sign for it.

If it was Citigroup's goal to get people out of debt they wouldn't do these things. They would do them however if their goal was to cross-sell. Their goal is to get people in to debt, then insure the debt and finally roll the debt over in a refinance. THAT is what they are really out do. CROSS SELL!!!!!!

YOU were the one claiming the 18% return. You said you had been investing $120 a month in a IRA funded with a mutual fund primerica had sold you and now it was worth over $300,000. I said for that to be possible that fund had to have an 18% return AFTER taxes and expenses to do that and challenged you to name the fund. I said I looked at Morningstar and couldn't find a single fund with anything even close to that average over 20 years. Once a year you get vague about "exceeding expectations" but won't name the fund. LOL

For the record... there are about 1,000 other insurance companies that will keep your licensing on the books while you take a 6-year hiatus. Even if they dump you they'll continue to pay renewals as long as you are licensed and reinstate you to sell at a moment's notice when you are ready to sell again. My wife sold her last policy in 1988 and STILL collects renewal commissions. Oh, by the way, with the new NASD guidelines you wouldn't be allowed a 6- year hiatus securities licensing active with primerica as they have come out against people "parking their license with broker-dealers".

For the record... the Insurance Information Institute says there are 1,000 companies selling life insurance,,,not 500 like you just claimed. This number is down from its high of about 1500 because of mergers and acquisitions. It has absolutely nothing to do with primerica.

Figures don't lie but liars figure. Thats true. And the non-lying figures say INTEREST RATES MATTER A LOT!!!!!! Liars figure ways to cover up ridiculously high loan interest rates like;
a.) interest rates don't matter, only time in debt does
b.) simple interest provides a huge savings over scheduled interest...it doesn't
c. we don't charge people for PMI (we just build it in to the interest rate so EVERYONE pays it, not just those borrowing with less than 20% in equity)

The non-lying figures says Primerica had a meager 2.5% premium growth in 2005.....thats far from exploding...in fact its crawling.

You say you are talking to granite...well I'm talking to clay, willing to be molded into anything the marketing people at primerica want on any given day.

I don't listen to ANY insurance companies marketing claims anymore. Been there, done that, have the scars to prove it. To me its all in the contract and the marketplace. What some Armani suit wearing genius in a home office marketing department says means nothing to me.

You hate all insurance companies except primerica. I hate all insurance companies too...but especially primerica because their marketing is just so darned CYNICAL!!!!!!
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#126 UPDATE Employee

YO Leroy!

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

I see your responses to me are getting shorter. Thank you!

I am not New to PFS, as you stated. There you go "twisting" things around again! I began with PFS in 1985 & became a client with their term insurance & investments in the spring of '84.

Actually I began as a part-time rep with the original A.L. Williams Co. in early 1985, and they later changed their name to Primerica Financial Services. I had a great job in engineering that paid the bills. My $600 - $1,500 a month part-time income was great ... helping me pay off debts & to invest for my retirement, while helping other families to do the same. But a few years ago my company got bought-out, down-sized, right-sized, whatever ... & I got out of that rat race!! Thank God I had a 2nd career to fall back on.

The Term insurance company we originally represented was MILICO (later changed their name to Primerica Life) to match our parent company's name Primerica (formerly American Can). Then Primerica bought Smith Barney now Solomon Smith Barney & Commercial Credit (Sandy Weill put these co's. together), bought Traveler's to become Traveler's Group and finally the merger with CitiBank now known as Citigroup. (which took an act of Congress to repeal the Glass-Stiegle Act for this merger to take place.) All of this got done so we (PFS) could take financial services to help the 80 million "baby boomers" get out of debt & become financially independant.

If that makes us a scam, then the people that say that, must have gotten dropped on their heads as babies....

We've recently had Smith Barney doing the investment managing but they have set up an agreement with Legg-Mason to come in & do the behind the scenes management for PFS, but still keeping the same mutual funds.

I am a Regional Manager, not an RVP, but certainly not a new recruit as you mislead others to believe. I took a leave of absense (keeping all of my licenses & compliance up-to-date) as my parents both were diagnosed with Cancer. My Mom lived for about 4 years & my Dad about 2-years longer than her. So I was not active in the business (about 6 years - maybe a little longer), but Primerica never fired me! In Corporate America - who can take 6 years off & still keep their same position in that company ? ? I did!

18% huh? Don't know about that! We can't show anything over 12% without presenting a prospectus & a 1 yr, 3 to 5 yr & 10 yr track record using approved hypotheticals of what any investment would grow to. So far my investments have surpassed those hypotheticals. They did not make any promises, but just showed me their track record of what they had done.

The insurance industry's notorious with their "projections" showing you what they're gonna do but not what they have done!! What they have done to cash value policy holders is pathetic, leaving families over-premiumed, underinsured & (with) nothing to reire on but empty promises! I have never met a person who has cashed in their life insurance policy & said, "Man - I've got more money than I'll ever need!"

So you can take all of your facts & figures & go figure! When I began with ALW there were about 2200 - 2300 insurance companies that sold life insurance. Those companies have dwindled to less than 500 & are shrinking fast, while we're exploding.

Be careful where you get your facts from! Figures don't lie but lyers will go figure. I can prove to you I have eleven fingers, but that only means I can manipulate the digits ... just like you.... hee hee ...

I realize I'm talking to a granite wall, but couldn't resist it when you accused me of being new & old at the same time (in the business) & not telling the truth.
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#127 Consumer Comment

From what I can gather this is not an isolated incident...

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

For all of you Primerica employees that consistently attempt to claim that these types of encounters with your company are "isolated incidents" that are only indicative of a few "bad apples" in the company, would you care to explain why there are so many people that have the EXACT SAME experience with your company all over the United States?

The exact same thing that so many others have claimed also happened to me. I was called by a man named Richard Reilly who claimed that he had gotten my contact info from somewhere (he ws vague) and that his company was looking for people to help with their market expansion into the Denver area. I originally thought that this was the company that I had faxed my resume to a couple of days prior, so I called him back. He asked me if I had ever heard of Primerica. I said no, and he then told me that it was a subsidiary of Citigroup, which I had obviously heard of.

He asked me if I wanted to come in for an interview and I agreed. I was also supposed to wear a suit and tie, and show up at their office at 7PM. That seemed a little strange, but seeing as that I am a college student and I have an internship in the area that the office is, I figured I'd go anyway.

When I got there I was surprised to see so many people there. Just as others have stated, the "interview" turned out to be nothing more than a sales pitch. Of course, with the way they worded things, it was very seductive, especially for a college student looking for a way to make some extra part time cash.

After I filled out my paperwork (I didn't ask for an FnA, I already know my financial status), I got ready to leave when Richard approached me and asked me to come back for a second "interview."

While I was somewhat unnerved by the first "interview," I thought that it may have just been a "weeding out process" so I agreed to come back on a Saturday. Once in the interview I was asked a few questions about my employment background, about whether I was a "hard worker" or not, and if I was okay not receiving a paycheck.

Again, somewhat of a red flag, but I have worked on commission before so I didn't think a whole lot about it until I was asked to give them $199 for licensing, and attend a weekend class that I would not be compensated for. I have never heard of a company that doesn't at least pay some sort of hourly training wage for a new hire.

Still, the "new employee" schedule that was layed out in front of me was enticing. I could really be making $100,000 + in 18 months, simply through hard work? Wow! I was supposed to go back on a tuesday to fill out my paperwork and give them a check.

That morning I was talking to an administrator at my school about it. She said "Oh no. stay away from them, I've heard bad things." I thought about ut for awhile and decided to call Richard and tell him I couldn't make it that evening. He was very adamant that I come in as soon as possible. I told him I would come in on thursday, it was an excuse for me to do some research. Lo and behold, the third Primerica hit that pops up on a web search is "Rip off Report."

As I begin to read, I realize that I have almost been had. Same EXACT thing that all these reports have been saying. I am so glad I didn't go, I obviously didn't go thursday and piss away $200 on a scam. Of course Richard called me about 5 or 6 times before he got the hint that I wouldn't be coming in for "training."

I feel somewhat cheated, but also a little annoyed that I was almost swindled. Primerca, and those who work for them ought to be ashamed at how the mis-lead people, most from lower incomes into thinking that they can be a financial advisor and make tons of money with absolutely no background or education in the field.

I like to think I'm a pretty intelligent guy, and if they almost got me, how many others are they duping on a daily basis? If one of these bozos ever calls you, stay away, fortunately for me it only cost me some time and gas, for others, it seems its cost them a whole lot more.
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#128 Consumer Comment

gary...make up your mind

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

In this post on this thread you say you've been licensed in insurance and securities for 20 years. On another post in another thread you said you were new to primerica and had not yet made RVP. You have never once said you with someone else for many years then moved to primerica.

Is this like the mutual fund you said primerica sold you in 1986 that has returned 18.1% before taxes and expenses? A thorough search of Morningstar shows no such fund exists.

Sounds to me like you have taken a cue from primeriuca's canned sales track (aka Financial Needs Analysis) and you stretch the truth.

By the way gary....if primerica is beating up the insurance industry like a drum why was premium growth an anemic 2.5% in 2005 according to Standard & Poor?
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#129 Consumer Suggestion

gary the crimerica puppet zombie blathers on...

AUTHOR: Jay - (U.S.A.)

what kind of pathetic assclown in a cheap suit spends his nights rebutting reports slamming his companys overpriced term insurance, deceptive recruiting tactics and their "youd have to be stupid to buy this smart loan"? gary the primerica puppeteer thats who !
keep up the good work Gary, when youre finished tonight dont forget to finish your Koolaid from Jonestown.
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#130 UPDATE Employee

Primerica.....Just like any other company

AUTHOR: Kyle - (U.S.A.)

If you look up financial services on this website you will find several complaints on several companies. When you are a financial services company, you are surely going to get negative responses. Do you think that Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, or countless several others ended their business because someone was displeased by their product? Everywhere on this site, people are complaining about big companies, because people are conditioned to think that big companies are going to rip you off. It has happened in America, and all around the world. Of course you can't please everyone! Walmart and other major companies are on this site several times!!! Simply because these people provide a service, and better your life, you hate them??? I truely do not understand American sentiment! You were founded on great companies!!!! You rail against progress and profit!! You think that simply because someone has more money than you they deserve to be mocked and yelled at??? I have a pretty good idea that all of these responses are knee jerk reactions to something that happened. No one has thought it through and really studied the facts. Of course there is always going to be baised information! I encourage people to voice their opinions! Primarica is a great company! Of course there are several different offices and several different employees who take matters into their own hands and are possibly bad repsentatives of the company.

Money drives a person!! If you say that money, being independent, or financially stable does not interest you, you are lying! Most people complain because they want to be heard! Not because they have a legitimate point, but simply because they want to be heard...Do you think someone put up this website simply because they wanted to help people who have been ripped off? That may have been their mission statment, but think of all the money they have made from advertisments? Do you hate them because they made money off of you?

Money is a vehile that propels everyone to do better and to be better. I would simply love to delve more into this response but I must work to make MONEY! Because it drives me to do a better job and to be greedy!

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#131 Consumer Comment

Pyramid Scheme*

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

Yes, they like to "use" Citigroup as the so-called company they work for, but in essence they are called Primerica Financial Services. They will show you everything under the sun on how you can make so much money and "what they'll teach you, banks won't share".

They are the true definition of what a pyramid is. They'll try to brainwash you against your own families. It's pretty sad that there's so many people involved.

I've been approached several times and I've gone to 2 presentations, so I've seen and heard it all. What sounded legitimate was when the person said they work for "Citigroup". That's the biggest lie. I THANK GOD I didn't get suckered in!

BELIEVE ME, THEY REALLY NEED YOU!
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#132 UPDATE Employee

from Newbie Gary

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Yes, I'm a newbie all right, shows how much you know. I've been licensed in this business since 1985 (life insurance - health 1987), 1986 (securities) and 1996 (p & c). I also am mortgage licensed since we came out with the debt restructuring / mortgage loan program.

Sure you may have cheaper stuff, but you do not have the ability to mass market it across the kitchen table with a customized, confidential, complimentary financial analysis. That's why we'll beat you like a drum! My whole point in all of this discussion, is you may have something cheaper but you do not have the marketing or the added value we provide. I have not come across the stuff you sell, and I've seen a ton of the competitions out there & we beat it. So all of your facts, figures and talk's cheap just like your products but if you can't deliver it or its not getting to the public then it has about as much value or use as t**s ... on a boar hog!
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#133 UPDATE Employee

HI Leroy & Jay in Rhode Island

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

So Jay, you earned $43,000 last year replacing our business. Well, Gollllly! Our Senior Vice President last month made $43,000 (plus) income - just in the Month of March this year!! (Replacing your "industry's" business, with a few RVP's helping out.) And one of his RVP's that he promoted, earned just over $1 million dollars last year. Your point, Jay?

And Leroy, your nine days camping in the wilderness sure went by fast... hope you had a good time!

So what if (any of) you all have access to a term policy or a loan program that's cheaper. You must not sell very much of it or no one's mass marketing it to my knowledge. So far we have not gotten beaten on what's "out there". Not what you "say" you can find in your many companies that you represent" but what's actually getting sold to the consumer. Guess your stuff is in such an isolated area is the reason why we don't come across enough of it to amount to anything.

Anyway all of the term I've seen has a converstion clause in it to convert to Whole life or some other form of permanent insurance. Ours does not! We market thru Primerica Life (formery MILICO) which is an A+ rated legal reserve life insurance company. We will never experience a run on cash values (we sell 100% term, remember?) as those other companies that sell more cash value insurance than they do term. We also use reinsurance companies to back us (as in the case of catastophic losses, the same way the traditional industy does. These posts somehow insinuate that we may not be able to pay our death claims is ludicrous!

We're beating the industry like a drum & all they can do is .... well nothing ... but whine & complain ... & wonder why they hadn't thought of it first...
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#134 Consumer Comment

comparing Primerica to McDonald's.

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

If you go into a bad McDonalds and get a lousy burger you're out $3. When you get overpriced financial products from primerica, you're out
$ TENS OF THOUSANDS!!!!

Example

44 year old couple
$500,000 20 year term
$250,000 loan


LIFE INSURANCE
Primerica term $1670 per year
Other A++ rated company $1250
Difference = $8400 over 20 years

YEARS TO PAY OFF HOME LOAN
$250,000 Loan, equal payment made to;
a.) not-so-$MART loan from CITIGROUP
b.) to another nationwide lender

a.) SMART loan 22 years 4 months
b.) other lender 18 years 6 months

DIFFERENCE $87,000

TOTAL COST TO DO BUSINESS WITH A BRAINSWASHED PRIMERICA NEWBIE LIKE GARY OR JOANNE

$97,000
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#135 Consumer Comment

joanne and gary brainwashed crimerica zombies

AUTHOR: Jay - (U.S.A.)

I love replacing overpriced crimerica term policies and their "you must be stupid but we call them smart loans". after i show the clients how much they overpaid i generally get or 2 or 3 referrals to help other Primerica victims. My secretary calculated that in 2005 I made 43K in commissions just on PFS replacement business alone. On behalf of all independant agents let me be the first to thank all primerica agents for paying to send my 2 children to their private schools. I couldnt have done it without ya! Cheers, Jay
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#136 UPDATE Employee

Hi Stephen in Illinois and Joanne

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Yes Joanne, you hit the nail on the head ... not to make decisions based on other people's failures or on this website. You're the lifeblood of Primerica! Keep learning, allow your trainer to help you build a business, always remain coachable & don't ever quit! You will learn more sitting across kitchen tables in six months than you will ever learn in 2-years of classroom instruction.

As for Stephen, what's wrong with making money? Why do people leave their homes in foreigh countries to come to America? Isn't it to make more money & to have the freedoms that we take for granted?? Are you in the Military? If so, we appreciate you very much, for dedicating your time, and if need be, your life - protecting this great country. If you're not in the military .... never mind!

I attempted to join the Army (helicopters) ... but could not pass the physical (Vietnam era) so I gave 2-years of my life helping others by volunteering for the Peace Corps. I created & set up a junior high library (they had no shelves or books to put on them), taught industrial arts (building shelves!) & worked as an assistant boy scout leader in the Caribbean. It was a 2-year working vacation. But I left my home & family for 2-years working for $75 per month (readjustment allowance) plus $150 US per month - living allowance. I certainly did not do that for the money, wouldn't you agree??

I believe it's OK to make money legitimately, while helping others to do the same. I can go fish & feed myself or teach others to fish & feed the world.

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#137 Consumer Comment

Hello!

AUTHOR: Joanne - (U.S.A.)

Hi 2 Jason! Like Gary, I am also sorry that you've encounter a bad (or maybe a newbie) trainer. I am not yet a 100% primerica representative for I have only started 3 weeks ago. I just got my mortgage license and I am now also working on my "Life" self-training to get my license.

So far, my own experience with Primerica (my trainer and upline) I have learned that it DOES requires hardwork and dedication to succeed in Primerica (if you do wanna earn 6 figure income.) My trainer and upline also showed me ways and option as to how I want to earn money.

Although I knew about this website long before I filled up my IBA application, other's bad comments in this website did not discourage me to stop and continue working with primerica. You asked y? It is because of how other's write their comments. It wasnt because their grammar was wrong. It is because of their unthoughtful messages.

2 be continue because I have 2 go. All I want 2 say for now is PRIMERICA DOES HELP MIDDLE INCOME FAMILY. I know this because my trainer who did our mortgage (SMART LOAN) did help us save more money a month and at the same time. Instead of paying 30 year mortgage, we only have to pay mortgage for only 21 years and 7 months.

And I joined primerica because I want to do the same thing my trainer did for my family. Right now, I am also doing my paternal uncle with their debt and my trainer is helping me help them with their protection. It's great! I'm going to get paid while in training!

By the way I am 21 years old., part-time college student, part-time caregiver, and a full-time mother and wife.

B2B
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#138 Consumer Comment

Gary, you are indeed shallow

AUTHOR: Stephen - (U.S.A.)

All you need to know from me is you are shallow and from your words money is more important to you than education. You would not be a member of Primerica if there was no money in it for you and that makes you greedy and pitiful.
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#139 UPDATE Employee

Hi Jason...

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Sorry you had such a bad experience. But have you ever gone into a sleazy McDonalds, where the food's cold or warmed over too much & the floors look dirty & booths have not gotten "bussed" or there's a a homeless person in the bathroom - washing up?? Did you completely stop eating at all McDonalds restaurants, or just that particular one?

Primerica has been in existance since 1977 so that makes us 29 years old. (Original Company name A.L. Williams) We're a marketing Division of Citigroup, mainly focusing on middle income families. This website has whiners & complainers with not much else to do in life but whine & complain, or they're the opposition trying to discredit us. That's OK, but if you want to make an accurate decision, go check us out somewhere else (legitamate sources where they do not have an axe to grind!) besides this place. People online can say anything or be anyone they please without any regulations, isn't that right? They can quote statistics til the cows come home, but that does not mean they're true...

I suggest the public library for starters:

** Success from Home Magazine, Vol 1, Issue 3, July 2006.

** What's Wrong with your Life Insurance, by Norman Dacey.

** Finishing Rich, by David Bach (New York Times best selling author)

** Fortune, Forbes, Wall Street Journal, Changing Times, Best's Review - "Primerica, King of Term" (cover story), Time Magazine Newsweek, etc.

This opportunity's not for everyone, otherwise everyone would be doing it! Then there wouldn't be any opportunity left ... right? We must get State & Federally licensed in all aspects of the business, plus meet all State & Federal Compliance regulations. It's a tough business in that we do not recruit "employees" with employee type mentalities. We're looking for people who are sick & tired of being sick and tired & want a way out of their corporate nightmares. I know that may sound weird but we're a different kind of company, for a different kind of person.

In Corporate America you go to college & get a degree in your field, then you submit 100's of resume's & finally you get a call for an interview! You get all dressed up in your Sunday best, with fresh resume in hand & get in your car. All the way there - you're thinking what are they going to pay me, & what will my hours & benefits be ... the adreneline's pumping. So you arrive & they set you down to wait as many others have come in before you applying for that same job. About 1-hour later your name gets called & they have you fill out an application, then they escort you to a little cubicle to give you a "suitability profile" test, to make sure you aren't some psychopath. If time allows, they will interview you asking you about your whole life's history, right? (Or have you return at another time for the interview - now it's 2 days wasted!) And the whole time you're sitting there saying to yourself, I don't even know if I want this job or not! Then you wait for that call saying you got the job or you get that reject letter in the mail and the whole process starts all over again! Isn't that how it goes?? We've all been there & done that.

We turned that all around, what would that same interviewer say to you if you said: "listen buddy (or bud-ette), before I go jumping thru all of your hoops, show me who your company is, their growth potential, how much you're gonna pay me (& what I have to do to earn that pay) plus the benefits, what my long term longevity with this company will be; let me visit with other people who work here so I can "interview them"??? Then you can ask me allllll the questions you want!What would be their response? They would probably call the men in the white coats, right? (or security to escort you off of the premises!)

This is why most college graduates end up taking a job, not even in their degree field, as they have to start making some money to pay off all those student loans. Hoping someday it will change & (like me) find out 14 years later, they're still doing the same job they didn't really want to begin with, "but it paid those bills, right?"

We take a totally different approach. First of all I've never seen a bad resume. No one will tell all the bad stuff they've done, right? Besides that's all history, sure it may show you're a goal oriented person, but it will not give us any idea if you have what it takes or not to make it or to become successful. Some of the most intelligent - gifted people wind up on skid-row - homeless! We show you what we do, what we get paid, the companies that back us up, the financial strength & yes what we pay to those who are willing to work. Then, if that peaks your interest we will ask more personal questions. About the only thing that would preclude a person coming on board is if they have any felonies. Of course that's a given. But we give people a chance, without prejudging them before they can even stick their toe in the water.

We recruit for attitude & train for skills, which may sound "hokey" but it's true. We also let them keep their security blanket job (as long as there's no conflict of interest) while they learn a new career. If it's not for them, that's OK, they get a great education on finances, without losing any income during the learning phase.

It makes me mad to see these liberal universities teaching our young men & women how to become successful in business and that by having a college degree somehow makes them a better person or more qualified than maybe someone who only went to Jr. College or just graduated High School. Give me a break! Bill Gates never finished college, he dropped out! IBM would not have hired him with his resume or background. There's not a test devised by Man, that can look inside a person to see if they have what it takes to succeed!

You seem like an intelligent young man who made a snap decision based on one bad experience & by going on the "net". Anyway, we do not need you ... we will find those that need us & we will soon become the company everyone wants to copy, but it will be too late (for you) as we eventually will have all the people we need by then! We will never saturate the market, but we can saturate the name, which is why we do not overly use the name Primerica on the phone. I might also add, that each state has restrictions & their own rules on cold calling people who are on a "no call list", which we must adhere to.
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