• Report: #184214

Complaint Review: Primerica

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  • Submitted: Thu, March 30, 2006
  • Updated: Wed, November 15, 2006

  • Reported By:Atlanta Georgia
Primerica
Www.primerica.com Atlanta, Georgia U.S.A.

Primerica Financial Services: Research of its financial products & Business Opportunity. Primerica shows total commitment to resolve all issues & misunderstandings, committed to serving clients & agents. Rip-off Report investigates, finds most of what is posted is ridiculous like this title: Primerica Pyramid scheme salesmen posing as financial advisors brainwashing recruits ripoff Atlanta Georgia *UPDATE: Rip-off Report Investigation examines the Company and its record of service to consumers and representatives

*UPDATE Employee: Proud to be with Primerica

*UPDATE Employee: Proud to be with Primerica

*UPDATE Employee: Proud to be with Primerica

*UPDATE Employee: Proud to be with Primerica

*UPDATE Employee: Hi Jody in Del Ray Beach

*Consumer Comment: I worked in a place where a fellow employee constantly tried to recruit everyone

*Author of original report: Typo

*Author of original report: What I Learned From Primerica's Showcase

*Consumer Comment: Thanks for the info

*UPDATE Employee: My 5 minute Soapbox to this Primerica string

*Consumer Comment: answering miljana

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Adding to Leroy from Tulare

*Consumer Comment: Primerica's Posting of Commissions

*Consumer Comment: Miljana...you overestimated

*Consumer Comment: You Want to Be Challenged

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Hopefully a final rebuttal to Julie (Irvine)

*Consumer Comment: Last (I hope) rebuttal to Julie

*Consumer Comment: You Want to Be Challenged

*Consumer Comment: responding to Miljana re; Group Term Life

*UPDATE Employee: Wasting Time

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: The secret to making money that Primerica is keeping hidden from its new agents

*Consumer Comment: Give Her a "Chance"

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rebuttal to Gary's of Wichita

*Consumer Comment: How am I giving you nothing?

*Consumer Comment: How am I giving you nothing?

*Consumer Comment: How am I giving you nothing?

*UPDATE Employee: Again nothing Stuart

*UPDATE Employee: Again nothing Stuart

*UPDATE Employee: Again nothing Stuart

*UPDATE Employee: Again nothing Stuart

*Consumer Comment: Rebutting Julie

*Consumer Comment: And Whom Do You Support? The Noble Primerica?

*UPDATE Employee: Anthony in MD rebuttal

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Responding to Julie's challenge (from Irvine)

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Gary is a totally predictable PFS clone

*UPDATE Employee: I'm still not being challenged!

*Consumer Suggestion: Julie's the ignorant one

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rebutting Julie (Irvine)

*UPDATE Employee: Nice try Stuart!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: My special 5-point program to make the most in the shortest time possible at Primerica

*UPDATE Employee: Stuart in NJ

*Author of original report: To Julie and Garry

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rebutting Julie (Irvine)

*UPDATE Employee: Way to Go Julie!

*Consumer Suggestion: Look at the facts

*Consumer Comment: Timothy and the warm market

*Consumer Comment: The "Chance"

*UPDATE Employee: Primerica Rebuttal to Pyramid Scheme

*Consumer Comment: Thanx for Advice & Questions on Merril Lynch & Ban in NY

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Prepare to Dig In

*Consumer Comment: 2 questions

*Consumer Comment: 2 questions

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EDitor's Comment: Rip-off Report Investigation: Primerica gets a POSITIVE RATING in customer support from Rip-off Report and is fulfilling its commitment to provide excellent customer service. Primerica pledges to resolve complaints and address representative issues. For a long time this EDitor had concerns about Primerica because of the number of Reports about them. For many months Rip-off Report was looking into the company, even before they contacted us to resolve any issues and mostly misunderstandings being posted by competitors. With over 100,000 representatives and 6 million clients, Primerica is bound to be the subject of a certain number of complaints about improper agent conduct, as well as product and administrative complaints. Rip-Off's investigation found such complaints, but importantly also found that Primerica is committed to resolving such complaints quickly and doing everything possible to satisfy its clients. It also takes appropriate action against any of its representatives who are found to have conducted themselves improperly or unethically. We believe that the number of complaints against this company, whether through the Internet or other channels, is small when put into the context of its enormous size. Most big companies would never commit themselves like Primerica has. Read our investigative Report and Primerica's commitment to 100% consumer satisfaction. www.primerica.com provides products and services through independent representatives. Primerica www.primerica.com has more than 100,000 licensed representatives who serve more than 6 million clients in the U.S., Canada, Puerto Rico, Spain and the United Kingdom. Through a Financial Needs Analysis www.primericafna.com, the companys representatives provide a snapshot of a familys financial picture and suggest a strategy for financial security via Primericas products and services www.primericafinancialsolutions.com. Primericas business opportunity is attractive to people from many different backgrounds, including women www.womeninprimerica.com, African-Americans www.primericaaalc.com, Hispanics www.primericalatino.com and young adults www.generationprimerica.com.


==================================== My husband got "hired" by Primerica about two months ago through CareerBuilder.com. He has a bachelors degree in Public Relations, has no experience in financial industry and had never taken a single class in finance but was looking for a sales job. Needless to say, he was an easy target for Primerica's smooth talkers. Just two days after he got recruited his "trainer" had invited herself into our home to do a "kitchen table" with us to help us set our financial goals and help Paul "train". Me being a recent MBA graduate I prepared a whole list of questions like "So how exactly is Primerica different from say Mary Kay other than the fact that Mary Kay sells makeup and Primerica sells financial services?" and "Is there really a business need for my husband to recruit his friend the plumber and our neighbor the Secretary to sell insurance with him so that he can make money of their sales to their friends and family?" I had all kinds of questions that I was so sure she wasn't going to be able to answer at least not to my satisfaction and that because of that we would not ever see her again. Boy was I wrong. She had me completely showed. She was throwing around arguments about baby boomers retiring soon and how they'll be rolling their 401ks and all of this money will be exchanging hands and there will be no one to help them with their insurance and investment needs. And this is because companies like Merrill Lynch wouldn't even talk to you unless you have $100,000 to invest and Primerica fills in that growing market of middle class people that do not yet have clear financial goals set. To my question on whether Primerica is a multi-level-marketing company she exhaled: "But of course it is multi-level! Every single corporation in the United States is multi-level. Everyone including CEOs have people below them, above and them or both." Not 30 min. into it we were already going into our Financial Needs Analysis (aka FNA) and through Primerica's "Show Me the Money" 6 months plan. She was throwing charts, graphs and all kinds of flyers at us showing exactly how much money will my husband making over the course of next 6 months being on the fast track "trainer's plan". Among other things she kept saying that if the wife isn't happy then no one will be happy and that she wanted to make sure I was agreeing with what Primerica had in plan for him and that I was satisfied with it. Along with six figure income after 6-7 months she showed us that the first month while he is training he will make exactly $565 - by his trainer giving him or finding him a client for a life insurance policy. Yes its small, $565, but its guaranteed and it will help pay for our daughter's daycare. When she left our house I left pretty good about my husband's new job. Sure, its commission only but with all the "training" , help networking from his trainers and colleagues and his sales skills he is be bound to succeed. But my piece of mind did not last very long. In less than two weeks I saw what was going on. He was "training" for about an hour on Saturdays only and spent all day Tuesdays interview new recruits. Outside that all he did was make endless phone calls soliciting new recruits. As I work from our home office I get to hear the same sales pitch over and over again. Several friends started avoiding us as he tried to recruit them, they refused but he wouldn't back off. Around that time is when I found out that not only did we pay for the $199 membership fee but we also bought a term life insurance policy on my 27 year old husband's life that we needed so much as he could die any second and what would I do than to replace all of his income (with Primerica) ? And we didn't stop there. We got an emergency mutual fund investment too. And all of this before trying to pay off all of the high interest debt we have that is costing it a lot more any investment we could make. Needless to say I went ballistic but as soon as I came down I started doing my research. Here is what I found out through watching him recruit and talk about Primerica: Primerica is nothing but a pyramid scheme that depends on constant influx of new recruits that will pay the $199 membership fee and purchase number of financial services/ investments most of which they do not need or are not suitable for them. The manner in which Primerica sells these financial services involves some very questionable business practices and by sales reps with very little or no training, education or credentials in financial advising. Even though my husband had now spent almost two months with the company he could not give you the definition of term life insurance let alone explain the difference between term life insurance and cash value insurance. Despite of this, he managed to recruit some 6-7 new people most of which he solicited off CareerBuilder. It's been two months now he did not make the promised first month $565. When he asked his trainer about it she told him she couldn't help him with it because he did not have a "warm market". Primerica was been and is under investigation by the SEC, FTC and numerous other government bodies. Listing of investigations and litigations can be found SEC's and other sites --> http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/txt-srch-sec?text=Primerica&mode=&start=&count=ion= Litigation&sort=rank If you just do a goggle or Yahoo search on "Primerica fraud" you will get hundreds of hits explaining lawsuits, Primerica's deceptive tactics and testimonials of people defrauded. Most concerning of all though is that members of Primerica during company's presentations and speeches yell out "Amen" and "Hallelujah" (my husband admitted hearing this too) and insist upon Primerica being a "Christian" organization. The two of us had never went to church on our own before but only a month after he started working for Primerica he insisted on going to church every Sunday. And not only going to service but to Sunday school, Wednesday service and church softball and basketball leagues- its good for meeting contacts for Primerica. To sum it up: What Primerica tells their recruits is that: 1) They can easily make a six figure income 2) Their greatest income opportunity comes from recruiting new people from whose sales they will receive overrides (or % of commission) 3) The $199 dollars is for a background check (that typically does not cost more then $65 or that $40 is for the background check and $159 is to cover the cost of government subsidized classes (which oddly enough cost exactly the same in every state) 4) That in order to be successful selling Primerica's financial services it is strongly recommended that the representative buys a portfolio of Primerica's products 5) That Primerica is in fact a "Multi-Level-Marketing" organization but "as is every single corporation in the United States" (or everyone but the CEO has people below and above them) 6) That they are being recruited as financial advisors 7) Primerica is in the business of helping people" 8) That Primerica is a part of Citigroup - the largest financial company in the world What they don't tell their recruits is that: 1) Only about 1.5% all Primerica's sales reps ever make a six figure income, if even that many 2) Primerica does not cover any of the business expenses or overhead representatives incur in the process of recruiting new members or selling Primerica's services 3) As a result of questionable business practices Primerica's has been banned from operating in the state of New York for two years (strangely enough my husband's recruiter had moved down from New Jersey?) 4) Even Primerica's disclaimers state that "Representatives are not financial planners, investment advisors, financial consultants or other specialists who provide financial advice and whose compensation may be unrelated to sales." http://ww4.primerica.com/public/primerica_disclosures.html 5) That Citigroup is merely a sister company of Primerica that does not endorse any of Primerica's business All that my husband has to say to this is "I bet that if you look hard enough on the Internet you'll find that even Jesus is bad". He does not want to even hear about anything about it much less consider doing his own research. He is now even planning on an advertising campaign to get his Primerica's sales started. Needless to say, Primerica will not pay for any of it. Basically going forward my fear is that: a) Him and I will pour hundreds if not thousands of more dollars into this "business venture" before he figures out who he's dealing with b) Some new recruit and/or customer will either break his jaw when they realize they had been defrauded or sue him I have said so many things to him but nothing seems to be working. We just end up getting into fights about it. He is not himself anymore and has been completely brainwashed. He would not listen to me or his parents and family. His aunt actually had the exact same experience with Primerica and told him not to do it. But Primerica's answer to it is that its not for everybody - it is hard work and only determined and hard working ones succeed. But lately I've been feeling that the following applies. Stay away from Primerica and their pushy salesman with no knowledge in any financial area. They are posing as financial advisors looking to take your $199 and sell you anything they possibly can. After all as a member you better be buying all you are trying to sell. Susan Atlanta, Georgia
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 03/30/2006 10:08 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Primerica/Atlanta-Georgia/Primerica-Financial-Services-Research-of-its-financial-products-Business-Opportunity-P-184214. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 UPDATE Employee

Proud to be with Primerica

AUTHOR: Chris - (U.S.A.)

That's right, I am very proud to be associated with this company. Some of the complaints I have read are no where near the reality that I have experienced with Primerica.



It has been alleged that we at Primerica "prey" on the poor, ignorant middle class. Yet, I see no real proof provided by anyone. From my experience, the opposite it true. In my office, we have good, hard working, honest folks who truly want to help people achieve there financial goals. The Primerica mission statement is "To help families become debt free and financially independent". These principles are what attracted me to Primerica. We don't sell products just to get a commission. If we can't help folks, we don't want there business. How many similar businesses can you say that about? Not many.



In conclusion, you whiners and complainers really need to learn more about what we do before mouthing off. With over 100,000 reps, there are bound to be a few bad apples. But on balance, I would put the honesty and integrity of Primerica and its people up against any other organization in this country.
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#2 UPDATE Employee

Proud to be with Primerica

AUTHOR: Chris - (U.S.A.)

That's right, I am very proud to be associated with this company. Some of the complaints I have read are no where near the reality that I have experienced with Primerica.



It has been alleged that we at Primerica "prey" on the poor, ignorant middle class. Yet, I see no real proof provided by anyone. From my experience, the opposite it true. In my office, we have good, hard working, honest folks who truly want to help people achieve there financial goals. The Primerica mission statement is "To help families become debt free and financially independent". These principles are what attracted me to Primerica. We don't sell products just to get a commission. If we can't help folks, we don't want there business. How many similar businesses can you say that about? Not many.



In conclusion, you whiners and complainers really need to learn more about what we do before mouthing off. With over 100,000 reps, there are bound to be a few bad apples. But on balance, I would put the honesty and integrity of Primerica and its people up against any other organization in this country.
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#3 UPDATE Employee

Proud to be with Primerica

AUTHOR: Chris - (U.S.A.)

That's right, I am very proud to be associated with this company. Some of the complaints I have read are no where near the reality that I have experienced with Primerica.



It has been alleged that we at Primerica "prey" on the poor, ignorant middle class. Yet, I see no real proof provided by anyone. From my experience, the opposite it true. In my office, we have good, hard working, honest folks who truly want to help people achieve there financial goals. The Primerica mission statement is "To help families become debt free and financially independent". These principles are what attracted me to Primerica. We don't sell products just to get a commission. If we can't help folks, we don't want there business. How many similar businesses can you say that about? Not many.



In conclusion, you whiners and complainers really need to learn more about what we do before mouthing off. With over 100,000 reps, there are bound to be a few bad apples. But on balance, I would put the honesty and integrity of Primerica and its people up against any other organization in this country.
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#4 UPDATE Employee

Proud to be with Primerica

AUTHOR: Chris - (U.S.A.)

That's right, I am very proud to be associated with this company. Some of the complaints I have read are no where near the reality that I have experienced with Primerica.



It has been alleged that we at Primerica "prey" on the poor, ignorant middle class. Yet, I see no real proof provided by anyone. From my experience, the opposite it true. In my office, we have good, hard working, honest folks who truly want to help people achieve there financial goals. The Primerica mission statement is "To help families become debt free and financially independent". These principles are what attracted me to Primerica. We don't sell products just to get a commission. If we can't help folks, we don't want there business. How many similar businesses can you say that about? Not many.



In conclusion, you whiners and complainers really need to learn more about what we do before mouthing off. With over 100,000 reps, there are bound to be a few bad apples. But on balance, I would put the honesty and integrity of Primerica and its people up against any other organization in this country.
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#5 UPDATE Employee

Hi Jody in Del Ray Beach

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Yes, your experience with this person you worked with was definitely not good. I sincerely apologize for him. He was probably so excited about what he had learned working with PFS (Primerica) that he just could not contain his enthusiasm. Doing that sort of activity at work certainly would get labled as unethical & it gives the rest of us who do not do that sort of activity, a bad name.



But you know there was a man a long time ago who was about ready for retirement. A 60-something year old unemployed restaurant owner (who's business went belly-up when a super highway had gotten put thru near his restaurant) who had an idea - franchising chicken! He lived in his station wagon & traveled the country selling those franchises to anyone who was willing to take a chance. Most everyone thought he was crazy! But a few could see beyond the rumpled white suit & his age & they took advantage of this idea. A lot of people didn't make it but those who did became wealthy & so did he, at the age of about 75 (give or take), Colonel Sanders (and Kentucky Fried Chicken), became a millionaire. (they said he was nuts, but he laughed all the way to the bank) Now those franchises are world wide.



That's where Primerica's headed, world wide domination of the financial services market. They began 29 yrs ago with just 85 people in 3 states. Now they're in all 50 States, Canada, Guam, Puerto Rico, Spain & Great Brittain. (over 130,000 licensed representatives, mostly working part-time.)
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#6 Consumer Comment

I worked in a place where a fellow employee constantly tried to recruit everyone

AUTHOR: Jody - (U.S.A.)

I worked in a medical clinic at one time as an RN, and another RN I worked with got into Primerica through his son, who was recruited straight out of HIGH SCHOOL. This guy constantly tried to recruit patients and other nurses, always mentioning Citigroup. He couldn't have been doing very well though, because working for Primenrca was one of 3 jobs he held. He was always giving people financial advice yet was very heavily in debt and worked Monday through Friday at the clinic from 8-5, then worked every evening at some other medical facility, and worked for Primerica on the side. He was in his 50's and had the nerve to ask our patients, many of them indigent, why they didn't want to take advantage of such a great "opportunity". He had an old car that was always breaking down and he could never afford a new one. He kept asking me why I didn't moonlight for extra money, because my husband probably makes no money (my husband is a mortgage banker and does VERY well - and we own two condos and a duplex, all investment rental properties besides). Needless to say, I was able to quit my job and I manage our properties now, while this loser is still languishing away at his three jobs.



I am so sick of these people trying to make it seem like they're so well off, when most of them don't have two dimes to rub together!!! I complained many times at work about how what he was doing was inappropriate and a conflict of interest, not to mention unethical...and I'd do it all over again if I had to.
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#7 Author of original report

Typo

AUTHOR: Miljana - (U.S.A.)

Under item #7 above I meant to say that they claimed commissions in 2005 were $600 million (not $540 million). $540 is what I wrote down as the cost of license in state of Georgia. The goal for 2006 commissions is $1 billion.
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#8 Author of original report

What I Learned From Primerica's Showcase

AUTHOR: Miljana - (U.S.A.)

Hi Noteven and everyone,



I am very glad this whole discussion had helped someone save their time, money and energy on a company such as Primerica.



You are correct that my sweeping generalization about the South and stay home dads if taken as if is very ignorant. My knowledge of the South is limited to 7 sears of life in Birmingham and Tuscaloosa, AL and 2 years of life in Atlanta, GA. However the statement I made was in the context of what I should tell people I work with why my 3 month is not in daycare and why it makes more sense for my husband not to work in order to take of her. Out of the 700 people I work with in our Atlanta office I do not know of a single woman whose husband is a stay home dad. Especially not for only one 3-month old baby. And all of the women I work with make very good incomes, most of them better than mine. I understand that the fact that I don't know any with stay home husbands does not mean they do not exist anywhere. It merely means that they does not exist in my immediate work environment. And that is the environment I have to be most concerned with while I am on conference calls and my 3 month old is crying in the background. You have a very valid reason to opt out of work in other to take care of your daughter. My husband on the other hand at least at this time does not. He had graduated from collage in May of 2005 and since then had not worked a single week over 30 hours. Since our daughter is too small for us to worry about whom she spends time with after 5pm (since she will be cared for by both of her parents anyway) there is no need for my husband not to work a regular 40 hour week and for me to have the comfort and time and gas savings of working from home and not having to commute. I do not know if you have ever tried to have a full time career in a corporate America (not your own business or independent contractor work) while your baby is crying in a room next door and your wife is walking in every 5 min to ask your various kinds of things: When did she eat last? Did we give her vitamins today? Where do we keep the other pacifier etc., etc. I will tell you right away it does not work. It's a complete nightmare.



To update everyone on Primerica's showcase I went to last week (trying to keep as open minded as possible). I did learn some good things, some bad things and heard some flat out lies:



1) Primerica's sales reps/ independent contractors cannot be held liable for any misinformation they give their clients or for damages resulting from their actions. Plaintiff would have to go after Primerica since the sales reps are captive agents and not completely free agents or independent contractors. For the purpose of defending against any legal actions Primerica keeps Errors and Omissions insurance. I know almost nothing about the difference between independent contractors and captive agents but this is what I was told when I asked if my husband can't ever be sued by his clients if he helps them to lose money in their investments or in any way misleads them.



2) If you are planning on going to Primerica's showcase and have any questions you want answered, save them for one-on-one open and honest conversations. There is no Q&A session at the end of their presentation and you will not be able to ask anything in front of other recruits or call the presenters out on any misinformation or lie they might tell you during the presentation. I did have about 90% of my questions answers on one-on-one basis afterwards by one of the regional vice-presidents.



3) There were no Hallelujahs or Amens yell out by anyone during the presentation. There were a lot of Oh Yeah! and That's Right! shouting --all by current Primerica members/ trainers. None coming from the new recruits or visitors.



4) The reason why anyone would ever want to sell Primerica's services when they can just spend their time recruiting
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#9 Consumer Comment

Thanks for the info

AUTHOR: Noteven - (U.S.A.)

Hi all. Just wanted to say thanks for all the info, on both sides, which allowed me to make a decision about this company. I received a cold call from Doug Roland, who works with Primerica here in Atlanta, saying he had my resume and was the hiring director. Since I have no knowledge of this company, a simple google search brought me to this site. Last thing I need to do is become what Susan/Miljana's husband had...hooked up with such a company. Weighing the arguments, reading linked sites and other sites about this company has made me decide not to return his call. Glad I searched it out before calling them back.



Only one thing to say, directed to Miljana and that this statement is a little ignorant of the situation many people are in:

"I don't know how much forward thinking you folks are in California, but down here in the South there is no such thing as stay home dad. None of the men or women I work with are stay-home parents or have spouses that are stay home parents. "



I am a stay at home dad, and for a variety of reasons. Primarily, my wife makes a good salary, and we want someone to be home when our daughter (9) returns home from school, instead of being a latchkey kid, or going to the ASP, which she doesn not like, and isn't well supervised by the highschool kids they hire (this is in East Cobb...excellent school system). I have owned my own business, and worked 14 hour days, 7 days a week, for years on end. I want a little break. And I'm not alone. If you think this doesn't exist, you are sadly mistaken.



Thanks again all for the insite to Primeripoff.
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#10 UPDATE Employee

My 5 minute Soapbox to this Primerica string

AUTHOR: Sam - (U.S.A.)

It's unfortunate that either as a supporter or a protester of this company, folks can't disagree with out getting nasty towards one another.



Susan, I appreciate your concern and I envy you being able to stay at home and do your work. You're very lucky and I know you worked hard to get to where you're at. I just finished a degree myself, after nearly 28 years out of high school. I'm sorry your experience was as bad as it was. That's the fault of the leader's that motivated your husband then didn't follow up. There's no excuse for lack of leadership or integrity. It sounds like your husband is sincerely working to get ahead but no one is steering him in the right direction. I know you have a bad taste for Primerica, as do several who have logged on to this site, but your husband is someone I'd like to re-direct his efforts so he is successful. The group I work with is all about honesty, integrity and making those we work with feel valued. That's why it's worked out for me, because if I didn't have that, I'd be gone in a minute.





Gary and other Primerica rep's responding to this site: Fix your attitude. Your responses are unprofessional and juvenile. You don't make any points for putting people down or calling them names because they disagree with you or challenge you with data. Not real smart and you're not taking your training seriously. If you were part of my group, you'd change your tune or be out in an instant.



I am new to this company and have had great leadership so far. They have been up front with me and support my decisions. The folks I have helped are genuinely happy with the service we provide. It's been a win-win situation to date.



I did not go into this with rose colored glasses. I've tried AMWAY, Quarum, Don Luprey, Herbalife and different real estate programs. None of these were "scams", but I felt they were unethical. (I just fired a property manager because of their unethical practices with both me and my tennants) I questioned these rip-off.com reports, the motivation of those who contacted me and held people accountable to their word. I also know what my limits are. I look at this business like this:



It's what you put into it, but you have to have the right answers and support. I was out of shape and thinking that by a jog here and there and an occational trip to the weight room, I'd be a Hulk in no time! I saw a little change, and really thought I was doing the right things to get me there. It wasn't until I got serious enough to really learn about diet, work with folks that ran and lifted weights, that I made any real progress. I learned it was a life-style change. Once that sunk in and I followed the advice of those who were successful at running and lifting, I became one of them. I'm pushing 50 and am in the best shape of my life.



But working out isn't for everyone. I wouldn't put you down because you don't run and I do. This has worked out for me. A successful person surrounds themselves with other successful people. That's what I do. It works for me. I go with my gut and if it feels wrong, I change directions. I think if Primerica has been anything less than honest, Susan has every right to let everyone know. I'd want to know. I think Susan is someone I'd hang out with. I think if Gary want's to respond, he has every right to back up his company. I wouldn't hang around with Gary because, in my opinion, he does more damage to MY company than he does to build it up.



We all have our facts about Primerica. For me, it's worked out and the people I have shown what we have to offer, and have accepted, are happy with our services. Not all are. That's OK. I still wish each and everyone of them the best.
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#11 Consumer Comment

answering miljana

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

You can find out total compensation paid from primerica's financial statement. A.M. Best or the annual stockholder's report are good sources for it.



As far as your husband getting group life insurance, yes, he can get it without a physical. If he works for a large company its usually guaranteed acceptance. Smaller company group plans ask a few qualifying questions.



All life insurance companies have published rates for each health category. These categories go from super-preferred, which are about 40% less than standard rates, up to substandard Table 16, which are 4 times than standard rate. Smokers have an entirely different set of rates than non-smokers do and those rates start off 2-3 times higher than non-smoker rates.



Each company can put any individual applicant into any category it wants to. The applicant has the right to turn down the policy and get a full refund of any money paid if he doesn't like the rates offered by the insurance company after he has taken his physical and been underwritten.



Primerica's term insurance rates are simply too high. Its been my own experience over the years that Primerica is more likely to not give someone preferred rates than other leading term companies.

On numerous occassions I have taken primerica policyholders with standard rates and got them preferred rates with other carriers.



Primerica does not differentiate between smoking cigarettes and other forms of tobacco use. Many other companies will give people who smoke just a little or use smokeless tobacco standard non-smoker rates.



Primerica is tougher on people with controllable conditions than other companies. Unlike a primerica representative, I can get preferred rates for someone with high blood pressure or high cholesterol as long as those rates are controlled with medication. I can get someone with controlled diabetes standard rates whereas primerica will turn them down.



Primerica's rates on women are so high they are unconscienable. Primerica's argument that universal life is a ripoff for everyone really is silly when it comes to women because I can get universal life on a woman for very close to the same rates primerica charges for term insurance.
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#12 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Adding to Leroy from Tulare

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

"...and the average is still about $2,000 per person." Remember folks, this is before tax deductions, chargebacks and business expenses which leads to the Crimerica challenge:



Can anyone out there document on Ripoff Report actual copies of statements proving that someone is making the big bucks on the bottom line? Let's see the proof instead of the baloney posted by the shillers.
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#13 Consumer Comment

Primerica's Posting of Commissions

AUTHOR: Miljana - (U.S.A.)

Hi Leroy,



I know I overestimated these commissions at least some 4 or 5 times if not more. I did not really even look at Primerica's site since because I did not even think they would have them on there and just figured I would go by financial statements filled with the SEC. Can you please post the link where you find these commissions on Primerica's site? I am going to Primerica's showcase on Tuesday and would need to have some more precise numbers to be able to call them out if they repeat what they told my husband.



On the policy pricing, I have no idea how Primerica determined the price. If they priced him as healthy or not? They did have a nurse do all kinds of tests on him. All I know for sure is that I can get the same policy on him cheaper with no questions asked or tests done. He would need to provide Evidence of Insurability though, I do know that. I am aware of the fact that group life insurance would not go with I left the firm or the firm discontinued the plan. I am not sure if the one we got from Primerica would allow us to convert anything to cash. I don't think it does but will check on it.



Thank you for all of the info!
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#14 Consumer Comment

Miljana...you overestimated

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Miljana, if you look further in Primerica's website you'll find total amount of compensation disbursed. You divide that by 100,000 reps and the average income per rep is closer to $5,000. Just a few years ago, before the refinancing boom, it was a shade over $2,000 per rep.



When you consider that some at the top of the pyamid are making seven figures and the average is still around $5,000 you can see how unlikely it is you'll make money at it.



When you further consider that primerica admittedly has 150% yearly turnover rate in representatives. For primerica to have 100,000 reps at the end of the year means that 250,000 people cycled through the company as reps that year. You divide primerica's total compensation by all 250,000 that were with the company in that year and the average is still about $2,000 per person.
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#15 Consumer Comment

You Want to Be Challenged

AUTHOR: Miljana - (U.S.A.)

Julie:

You asked to be challenged by a credible source on my statement that Primericas operations are shady?



Ok. Say you are a brand new recruit that just came to her first Primerica showcase. To keep things close to home of this story lets say this is happening in Atlanta, GA. At that first showcase you hear from several Senior Vice Presidents (credible source with inside knowledge of Primericas operations) that the sky is the limit to your earning potential since with Primerica you are in control of your own business but that the average Primerica sales rep makes between $50,000- $70,000 their first year. And you are like wow! That is amazing! So you paid the $199 and join in.



3 months later when you still haven't seen a dime from Primerica, you decide to check out some more of credible sources at your disposal. So you look at your very own Citigroup income statement with the breakdown by business



Looking at all of the lines pertaining to Primerica you try to figure out how much commission average Primerica rep makes.

For the lack of more detailed information on this income statement and to overestimate reps commissions you assume that Primericas ONLY expense are commissions to its independent contractors which you can easily calculate from the basic accounting formula:



Total Revenues V Total Expenses = Net Income

or

Total Revenues V Net Income = Total Expenses



According to Primericas website (another credible source), Primerica currently has over 100,000 reps so to keep it on the more conservative side that will overstate per rep commissions lets just say that they only have 100,000 reps.



You find the following for the past 2 years of commissions per sales rep:



Breakdown of Reps Commissions in 2004:



Total Revenues ($2,141,000,000) V Net Income ($544,000,000) = Total Expenses ($1,597,000,000)



Or

$1,597,000,000/ 100,000 reps = $15,970 per rep



Breakdown of Reps Commissions in 2005:



Total Revenues ($2,222,000,000) V Net Income

($550,000,000) = Total Expenses ($1,672,000,000)



Or

$1,672,000,000/ 100,000 reps = $16,720 per rep



Keep in mind what we are saying here is that Primerica has no other expenses other than commissions to its sales reps! It has no office space rentals or any office expenses, no executive compensations, website maintenance costs, legal cost etc. etc. etc. absolutely nothing VPrimericas only expense are reps commissions. Only under such assumption these commissions amount to $15,970 and $16,720 per rep per year for the past two years.



So when a companys Senior Vice President tells you that the income of their average sales rep is $50,000- $70,000 a year to get you to join in when in fact that average income no more than $10,000- $20,000 what do you call that?

I call it scam, lie, rip-off, cheat, con, fraud, sham, deception, shady business.
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#16 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Hopefully a final rebuttal to Julie (Irvine)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

Quoting:



"My original reason for coming to this website was that I was really looking for some TRUE dirt on Primerica." Check the mirror Julie as you're a prime example of it (you lie and insult).



"As far as Stuart goes- I would like all of you to copy and paste the link on his last rebuttal and click on the blue link to see where this is coming from. The orginal website fro his "source" is www.stewwebb.com who is some paranoid maniac who thinks the whole world is against him. Great source Stuart!" LOL at you Julie as you lack basic computer skills to look up a website. You also sound like a shrill getting desperate at inventing false stories about me (I wouldn't mind taking credit for www.stewwebb.com as I wish it were my website, but I can't justify grabbing the credit).



To summarize, Julie represents another Primerica

failure. She's clutching at straws and is making a

fool out of herself which suits me fine as she just took Crimerica down another peg. The only question remaining is whether Julie's coming back or are the fat cats sending over another stooge.

Stay tuned.
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#17 Consumer Comment

Last (I hope) rebuttal to Julie

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Eventhough Julie isn't coming back to comment on this post, I'll still write it for other readers because I want to comment on her final rebuttal that says I'm the one who is doing the insulting.



First of all, it's not true that I only insult her. Some of the things that I say were insulting, but at the same time, I did give praise to Julie's strength. It's not easy to be breadwiner of the family when her child is still a baby and her husband is still a grad student (assuming with very limited income). I meant it when I said in my earlier post that I admire her for being to accomplish this. It's no easy task.



Julie was nice enough to not attack me, but I found it offensive to read that she would publicly tell another person that her husband should find a better wife (it still shows I'm not one who is doing all the insulting). I didn't feel just for the reader who is on the receipient of this outrageous insult, and I felt like I have to step in and give a harsh (but not outrageous) rebuttal. Julie may find my posts full of insults, but at the same time, I also gave out a lot of advice which I thought she would find useful..



For example, when a client of Primerica has read what she has written (the comment about about finding a better wife), wouldn't s/he lose a lot of respect for both Primerica and the agent? I myself is a client of Primerica, and I certainly found it to be the case. But at the same time, I believe that clients who read this report will not lose as much respect for the agent if the agent has the courage to admit her mistake and appologize for it. I thought I have given Julie enough hints that giving a sincere appology would help both her and her company's reputation. She chooses to say I'm wasting her time. What more can I do?



The first paragraph of my previous rebuttal did contain a summary of the negative aspects of that I don't like about Julie's post. Coincidentally, aren't these also typical complaints against some of the agents from Primerica? Julie's free to defend herself if there is anything wrong with what I've written. If Julie doesn't find anything wrong with what I've written, she can rectify her mistakes and become a better agent and person. Eg. Wouldn't it be towards her benefit if she doesn't insult others who don't believe in Primerica? She would be much more professional. People - including those who aren't affiliated with Primerica as agents or clients - will certainlly respect her a lot more.



I honestly thought she will find it helpful if she takes into consideration of some of the things that I say (of course she doesn't have to listen to everything I say. If she takes it into consideration, she'll be able to judge which things to listen to and which things to filter out), it can help her to be a better person. But if she chooses to claim that she's bored and I'm wasting her time, what else can I do?
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#18 Consumer Comment

You Want to Be Challenged

AUTHOR: Miljana - (U.S.A.)

Julie:



You asked to be challenged by a credible source on my statement that Primerica's operations are shady?

Ok. Say you are a brand new recruit that just came to her first Primerica showcase. To keep things close to home of this story lets say this is happening in Atlanta, GA. At that first showcase you hear from several Senior Vice Presidents (credible source with inside knowledge of Primerica's operations) that the sky is the limit to your earning potential since with Primerica you are in control of your own business but that the average Primerica sales rep makes between $50,000- $70,000 their first year. And you are like wow! That is amazing! So you paid the $199 and join in. 3 months later when you still haven't seen a dime from Primerica, you decide to check out some more of credible sources at your disposal.



So you look at your very own Citigroup income statement with the breakdown by business -->

citigroup.com/citigroup/fin/data/qer054s.pdf



Looking at all of the lines pertaining to Primerica you try to figure out how much commission average Primerica rep makes.

For the lack of more detailed information on this income statement and to overestimate reps' commissions you assume that Primerica's ONLY expense are commissions to its independent contractors which you can easily calculate from the basic accounting formula:



Total Revenues Total Expenses = Net Income

or

Total Revenues Net Income = Total Expenses



According to Primerica's website (another credible source), Primerica currently has over 100,000 reps so to keep it on the more conservative side that will overstate per rep commissions lets just say that they only have 100,000 reps.



You find the following for the past 2 years of commissions per sales rep:



Breakdown of Reps' Commissions in 2004:

Total Revenues ($2,141,000,000) Net Income ($544,000,000) = Total Expenses ($1,597,000,000)



Or

$1,597,000,000/ 100,000 reps = $15,970 per rep



Breakdown of Reps' Commissions in 2005:



Total Revenues ($2,222,000,000) Net Income ($550,000,000) = Total Expenses ($1,672,000,000)



Or

$1,672,000,000/ 100,000 reps = $16,720 per rep



Keep in mind what we are saying here is that Primerica has no other expenses other than commissions to its sales reps! It has no office space rentals or any office expenses, no executive compensations, website maintenance costs, legal cost etc. etc. etc. absolutely nothing Primerica's only expense are reps commissions. Only under such assumption these commissions amount to $15,970 and $16,720 per rep per year for the past two years.



So when a company's Senior Vice President tells you that the income of their average sales rep is $50,000- $70,000 a year to get you to join in when in fact that average income no more than $10,000- $20,000 what do you call that?

I call it scam, lie, rip-off, cheat, con, fraud, sham, deception, shady business.
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#19 Consumer Comment

responding to Miljana re; Group Term Life

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Contrary to what most people think, group term life is more expensive for most people. In group life the company has to take the healthy and unhealthy alike. That means there will be more claims. The administrative savings of having a group does not make up for the higher claims to the insurance company. The net result is higher premiums than individual plans have IF YOU ARE HEALTHY!!!!!.



If you're not healthy then group insurance can save you a lot of money over an individually underwritten plan.



Group plans do have the convenience of payroll deduction so thats make them attractive to many.



One huge disadvantage to the consumer of group term is if you leave your employer your choices are to convert the term to cash value insurance or discontinue the plan.
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#20 UPDATE Employee

Wasting Time

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

My original reason for coming to this website was that I was really looking for some TRUE dirt on Primerica. That is the reason why I challenged all you skeptics. I figured that you guys would be the best people to find me evidence. Unfortunately, I only found bitter people with nothing to bring to the table.



Miljana- The credibility of your story went down the drain when you changed your name from Susan to Miljana. So just like Edwin (who calls me rude, when he's also the one doing the insulting) I'm not going to waste my time on you either.



As far as Stuart goes- I would like all of you to copy and paste the link on his last rebuttal and click on the blue link to see where this is coming from. The orginal website fro his "source" is www.stewwebb.com who is some paranoid maniac who thinks the whole world is against him. Great source Stuart!



Since this is the last time I am rebuttaling with you guys ( you have officially bored me) I would like to point out, after reading these rebuttals over again, Susan did have the most credible link in her original message.



Unfortunately, if you type Procter & Gamble instead of Primerica, you will see that P&G has a lot more!



Does it mean that P&G is fraudulent? No!



On that note Ciao Amigos!
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#21 UPDATE EX-employee responds

The secret to making money that Primerica is keeping hidden from its new agents

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

The information I'm about to present is so important, it bears repeating on a daily basis at Ripoff Report:



(1) Get licensed before going on appointments with your friends and relatives.



(2) Get referrals from your prospects and don't share them with anybody else (not even your "trainer").



(3) Cut out your "trainer" who is the middleman.



(4) Don't list the names of any references on the

sign-up application sheet.



(5) (bonus step) Try working off your referrals instead of going to shopping malls and job fairs. Your chances of selling would be far better when you use your referrals wisely (and easier on your feet and car gas)."



In general, the so-called trainers from Primerica

aren't licensed to train nor have they taken courses on finance in general, the only license they carry is to sell. That's why your upline goes after your friends and relatives (your warm market) to fatten his commission at your expense.

You can always learn how to sell for free from off the internet or read about it at the library.



So protect your warm market as it's YOUR MONEY, YOUR COMMISSION that you're entitled to. Don't let others steal that from you as it represents your best opportunity to make commission at Primerica.



Get your license and sell to your warm market as you don't need a trainer for that (if the trainer insists on training, let him find someone from his own clientele to demonstrate with).



Poor poor Julie. As I predicted she tried to gloss

over the fact that Citigroup is an outright fraudulent company. She claims she likes to be challenged so when she is, she can't meet it. Just

saying you wasn't challenged doesn't make it so Julie. You're simply another failure from Primerica who comes trolling to Ripoff Report who can't deal with the facts. How many companies can you name Julie that made not just one, but two major settlements to avoid going to court. Settlements that cost Citigroup over $2 billion apiece for close to $5 billion plus was fined for hundreds of millions for predatory lending by the FTC. I can go on for further details but the following website documents all the dirt on Citigroup:



http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:X5uwUKsndf4J:www.stewwebb.com/

Citigroup%2520Predatory%2520Lending%2520%26%2520EPA%2520Cleanup.

htm+citigroup+sued+for+predatory+lending&hl=es&gl=ni&ct=clnk&cd=25



(for example it's reported that Citigroup lost close to 4 million customer files and there's concern about identity theft).



So Julie, try to lie and deceive all you want because through Ripoff Report along with other websites and other means, the truth will get out

and there's nothing that you and your master fat cats can do anything about that. How's that for a challenge, shiller?
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#22 Consumer Comment

Give Her a "Chance"

AUTHOR: Miljana - (U.S.A.)

Something I meant to post after Gary's talk on how Primerica gives everyone a chance and to speak to just how brainwashed some Primericans are:



It's been about a month since this happened. A friend of mine took my husband to a strip club for spending couple of days helping him move. The two of them go there and my husband recruits a 19 year old stripper to work for Primerica and comes home bragging about it! I'm like: How many people do you think will buy insurance or investments from a 19 year old stripper that has no experience in the financial services industry, no education (most likely did not even finish high school) or smarts (else she would not be doing what she's doing)??? But no one will know she a stripper. To which I said: How about warm market/ friends and family?



Bottom line is that it is irrelevant whether anyone will know what she does or did before joining Primerica, the point is that no one will look at a 19 year old like that and say: Oh this girl is absolutely right I really need to buy some life insurance from her! And some mutual funds too! What he had to all of this was: But you don't understand how ambitious and determined she is. She really wants to get out of that whole world.



But here is what the most concerning thing was to me in this whole event:

Just how pre-programmed and brainwashed do you have to be to go out to drinking and staring at naked girls all night and still think about your recruiting for Primerica??? Just a little bit concerning don't you think?



To add to Stuart's and others comments on Primerica's overpriced products: I just found out that I can get a Spouse Life Insurance policy (term life type) just like the one my husband got from Primerica for about 45% less than what we are paying to Primerica. You might ask if this is because the policy is employer subsidized? No we get subsidized medical, dental and completely free employee life insurance. Any other plans that provide coverage for employee's family members are fully paid for by the employee. Do we get a discount because this is a group life policy? Probably some but most likely not 45%.



On Susan vs. Miljana question my real name is Miljana. The only reason I did not want to put it on there initially is because I did not want any of my co-workers knowing everything I am posting here. But than I changed my mind considering I really got nothing to hide and considering that most people I work with have better things to do then get involved with Primerica and read reports about it.



Julie,

The big difference between you and me is that I do not have a choice between taking care of my child and daycare at least not at this specific point in time. My work does not involve kitchen tables and team meetings that are so unprofessional I can take a baby to them. Unlike you I have a career. In case you want challenge my statement about Primerica's kitchen tables and team meetings being unprofessional I'll tell you this before you say anything: We were invited to come to several Primerica's meetings and company showcases with our 3 month old baby. I said no to that because at the time I still thought that Primerica is a legitimate company in which bringing a baby to a business meeting would be considered unprofessional as it is in the rest of the normal business world. At the time I was supporting my husband in what he did and was being careful not to comprise his career.



Anyways, good luck to you supporting your family. If you can feed them on Primerica's motivational speeches more power to you.



Gary,

I might have remembered the exact amount of raise he got wrong it was probably one of the four amounts you listed. Or he might have expressed it as a difference between whatever tiers he moved between. As far as the title in concerned, I confirmed this with him he did say Senior District Leader whatever that means. Or does Primerica now make up new titles on daily basis so you guys in Kansas can't keep up with them anymore?



Julie and Gary:

Just out of curiosity, if you are so content with your life and work with Primerica what are you doing on the RipOffReport looking for reports on your company?



Could it be:



a)It's not really going as great as your up lines told you it would be?



b)You forgot your company's website and had to find it using Goggle search when you stumbled upon one of hundreds of Primerica reports on RipOffReport.com?



c)Not as many recruits are buying your story as they used to or they are sobering up quicker then you though they would?



d)You are running out of friends and family to sell your products to and wondering if general public had the answer why?



e)Slow season in MLM boom leaves with too much time to surf online?



f)You are practicing your responses to general public, clients and recruits that ask too many questions or openly disagree with Primerica's way of doing things? You want to cheat the system by finding out the questions before the exam?



g)All of the above
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#23 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rebuttal to Gary's of Wichita

AUTHOR: Anthony - (U.S.A.)

"I realize I'm talking to a wall but you can riducule all you want, the fact remains we're here, we're growing by leaps & bounds & there's nothing you can do but b***h & moan; end of story."



Ditto, Gary, I KNOW I'm talking to a wall, predicatable to the last. BTW you're losing people by leaps and bounds too so you will always be growing, what a laugh. And there IS something I can do about it beside (b***h and moan), that why sites that this exits to counter your illusions.



Regards,
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#24 Consumer Comment

How am I giving you nothing?

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Hey Julie. I'm giving you nothing? You asked me why you should appoglogize, and I gave my answer. How is that I'm not giving you anything? Not everyone who posts on this website is obligated to respond to your challenge, as you have already demonstrated to the readers that some agents from Primerica will invent stories, avoid questions which people ask them, are too coward to appologize when they behave rudely and unprofessionally, and insult others who don't believe in Primerica and call them ignorant. If you want to defend Primerica, why don't you do it in such a way that readers will get good impression of you and the agents who work for Primerica?



Read carefully between the lines Julie. Eventhough I didn't respond to your challenge, I have already given out a lot of hints on how agents from Primerica can improve the reputation of themselves and Primerica. You can choose to interpretate my posts as insults and dismiss them, or you can choose to interpret them as what are the things that the public (including myself) don't like about the behaviour of certain Primerica agents (I once again stress that not all Primerica agents are bad people) so that you won't make the same mistakes as they do. Remember what I said in my first post. Eventhough we disagree on many things, I hope we can learn new thing from each other as we exchange posts on ripoffreport.com.



I am not a fan of Primerica, but I still admire you for being able to be the sole breadwiner in your family. I wish you good luck on your business, but it's not necessary to insult others who don't believe in the Primerica system, as there are many good opportunities outside of Primerica too.
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#25 Consumer Comment

How am I giving you nothing?

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Hey Julie. I'm giving you nothing? You asked me why you should appoglogize, and I gave my answer. How is that I'm not giving you anything? Not everyone who posts on this website is obligated to respond to your challenge, as you have already demonstrated to the readers that some agents from Primerica will invent stories, avoid questions which people ask them, are too coward to appologize when they behave rudely and unprofessionally, and insult others who don't believe in Primerica and call them ignorant. If you want to defend Primerica, why don't you do it in such a way that readers will get good impression of you and the agents who work for Primerica?



Read carefully between the lines Julie. Eventhough I didn't respond to your challenge, I have already given out a lot of hints on how agents from Primerica can improve the reputation of themselves and Primerica. You can choose to interpretate my posts as insults and dismiss them, or you can choose to interpret them as what are the things that the public (including myself) don't like about the behaviour of certain Primerica agents (I once again stress that not all Primerica agents are bad people) so that you won't make the same mistakes as they do. Remember what I said in my first post. Eventhough we disagree on many things, I hope we can learn new thing from each other as we exchange posts on ripoffreport.com.



I am not a fan of Primerica, but I still admire you for being able to be the sole breadwiner in your family. I wish you good luck on your business, but it's not necessary to insult others who don't believe in the Primerica system, as there are many good opportunities outside of Primerica too.
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#26 Consumer Comment

How am I giving you nothing?

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Hey Julie. I'm giving you nothing? You asked me why you should appoglogize, and I gave my answer. How is that I'm not giving you anything? Not everyone who posts on this website is obligated to respond to your challenge, as you have already demonstrated to the readers that some agents from Primerica will invent stories, avoid questions which people ask them, are too coward to appologize when they behave rudely and unprofessionally, and insult others who don't believe in Primerica and call them ignorant. If you want to defend Primerica, why don't you do it in such a way that readers will get good impression of you and the agents who work for Primerica?



Read carefully between the lines Julie. Eventhough I didn't respond to your challenge, I have already given out a lot of hints on how agents from Primerica can improve the reputation of themselves and Primerica. You can choose to interpretate my posts as insults and dismiss them, or you can choose to interpret them as what are the things that the public (including myself) don't like about the behaviour of certain Primerica agents (I once again stress that not all Primerica agents are bad people) so that you won't make the same mistakes as they do. Remember what I said in my first post. Eventhough we disagree on many things, I hope we can learn new thing from each other as we exchange posts on ripoffreport.com.



I am not a fan of Primerica, but I still admire you for being able to be the sole breadwiner in your family. I wish you good luck on your business, but it's not necessary to insult others who don't believe in the Primerica system, as there are many good opportunities outside of Primerica too.
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#27 UPDATE Employee

Again nothing Stuart

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

Well Stuart you are doing a little better in bringing me something I can sink my teeth into, but not really. Those settlements you are talking about have nothing to do with the integrity of the company. Citigroup was unfortunate in advising its investors to invest in Enron and Worldcom when they thought the stocks were doing very well. A lot of people did.



Again nice try.



Edwin- You are giving me nothing, so I am not even going to waste my time on you!



Gary- I think you meant to address your comments to Susan not me, I am all for you remember!



Miljana- (or is it Susan)I thought for sure you were Susan since your story is exactly the same all the way to when you had an appt. with the trainer. Very strange!



Are you posing as 2 different people on this website!



I have an 8 month old daughter( who I refuse to put in daycare) and my husband is a full time graduate student, so I am too, the only income earner. So what?
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#28 UPDATE Employee

Again nothing Stuart

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

Well Stuart you are doing a little better in bringing me something I can sink my teeth into, but not really. Those settlements you are talking about have nothing to do with the integrity of the company. Citigroup was unfortunate in advising its investors to invest in Enron and Worldcom when they thought the stocks were doing very well. A lot of people did.



Again nice try.



Edwin- You are giving me nothing, so I am not even going to waste my time on you!



Gary- I think you meant to address your comments to Susan not me, I am all for you remember!



Miljana- (or is it Susan)I thought for sure you were Susan since your story is exactly the same all the way to when you had an appt. with the trainer. Very strange!



Are you posing as 2 different people on this website!



I have an 8 month old daughter( who I refuse to put in daycare) and my husband is a full time graduate student, so I am too, the only income earner. So what?
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#29 UPDATE Employee

Again nothing Stuart

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

Well Stuart you are doing a little better in bringing me something I can sink my teeth into, but not really. Those settlements you are talking about have nothing to do with the integrity of the company. Citigroup was unfortunate in advising its investors to invest in Enron and Worldcom when they thought the stocks were doing very well. A lot of people did.



Again nice try.



Edwin- You are giving me nothing, so I am not even going to waste my time on you!



Gary- I think you meant to address your comments to Susan not me, I am all for you remember!



Miljana- (or is it Susan)I thought for sure you were Susan since your story is exactly the same all the way to when you had an appt. with the trainer. Very strange!



Are you posing as 2 different people on this website!



I have an 8 month old daughter( who I refuse to put in daycare) and my husband is a full time graduate student, so I am too, the only income earner. So what?
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#30 UPDATE Employee

Again nothing Stuart

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

Well Stuart you are doing a little better in bringing me something I can sink my teeth into, but not really. Those settlements you are talking about have nothing to do with the integrity of the company. Citigroup was unfortunate in advising its investors to invest in Enron and Worldcom when they thought the stocks were doing very well. A lot of people did.



Again nice try.



Edwin- You are giving me nothing, so I am not even going to waste my time on you!



Gary- I think you meant to address your comments to Susan not me, I am all for you remember!



Miljana- (or is it Susan)I thought for sure you were Susan since your story is exactly the same all the way to when you had an appt. with the trainer. Very strange!



Are you posing as 2 different people on this website!



I have an 8 month old daughter( who I refuse to put in daycare) and my husband is a full time graduate student, so I am too, the only income earner. So what?
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#31 Consumer Comment

Rebutting Julie

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Julie, if you manually typed in in metamorphosis.html afterwards, you should be able to find the link that Stuart referred to. I tried it, and it worked. If you still claim that the link doesn't exist, you are either lying or you've accidentally made a spelling mistake while typing in the link.



BTW, are you inventing stories to cover your mistakes? I never said that you've forgotton to paste metamorphosis.html. I did say you have highlighted the link that Stuart has given but beacuse of the word wrap, Internet explorer is unable to handle the word metamophosis.html after the "/" character.



When did I say you've forgotton to paste metamorphosis.html? Did you imagine this? Or is there something that I've written that you don't understand? If so, please feel free to ask for clarifications instead of pretending to understand on things that you don't it. The "fake it till you make it" approach may work when luring potential recruits to your organization, but readers will jump on you if you attempt invent any stories in ripoffreport.com



What is wrong for a person to post information about his/her spouse on the Internet if the intention means good? If I get married, I for sure would not want my wife to be supportive towards me on something that she doesn't believe in. That would be just too fake of her, and I don't respect people who are insincere and fake.



You understand that if I spend nights and days studying poker theories, read books on pokers, talking to various experts about the game of poker, and practising poker (using real money of course), there is a chance that I can make in a week more money than most people will ever make with Primerica in a life time? No exageration. Do you know how much money a poker player makes if s/he wins the World Series of Poker Championship?



Of course, if I dedicate my life attempting to become a poker champion after I am married, it will be very tough for my family because I'll have to negletct them to practise poker all day and nights after work. I also face the risk of losing my family's life savings in my quest to become a champion because to become a better player, I must constantly play against more experienced and better players - which can be very expensive in high stake poker games. What happens if my wife, who is very worried because she sees I'm losing a lot of money in my attempt to become a poker champion, still act like she's very suportive towards my decision? I would think that she's a Stepford Wife, and I for sure would lose a lot of respect for her. She will be doing me a huge favour if she goes to the Internet and post information about me and ask the public for advice on how I can get rid of the poker playing addiction and how to stop dreaming about winning the World Serious of Poker and get back to reality.



Having said that, what is wrong with Susan posting information about her husband on the Interent? I praise her for showing care to her husband. Her husband is invovled in a "business" which is going nowhere, and her family's saving is depleting. Why should he continue with it? If Primerica has the history where most agents makes lots and lots of money, the risk of continuing with the business might be worth it; but most people from Primerica don't make that much. How can a person with conscience and intelligence still encourage him to continue with this business practise?



Let's be honest on one thing Julie. You were lying when you said you were trying to defend her husband, weren't you? From the way I see it, your true intention is to throw insult at a person who doesn't believe Primerica, rather than defending a fellow Primerica agent as you have claimed.
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#32 Consumer Comment

And Whom Do You Support? The Noble Primerica?

AUTHOR: Miljana - (U.S.A.)

Julie,



I do admit that I was a sucker when I believed someone telling me that my husband will make $565 his first month selling. This person, however, told us that she would personally help him get there and that she can guarantee he will make that since she had been with Primerica for 20 years. My husband also heard from her that she makes $300,000 a year working for Primerica. Given all of what we heard from her and the way she acted meeting with us, my understanding of personally help him was that she will either help him find his first client or give him one of her own clients to get him started and help us get by while he is building his own

client base. Instead of personal help, however, all we got was Sorry I can't help you, you don't have a warm market.



Now if you want to call this my ignorance of the way business world works, sure I'm guilty of that one too. In the business world I come from, however, your bosses', partners' and team members' word means something.



As far as not supporting my husband comment, all I have to say to you is that my husband is only the second in line on my support list. Maybe you'll understand this one day when you have children of your own and when you are expected to be a sole provider for your whole family. You see, Julie, the fact that my husband did not make the promised money his first 3 months selling, is a really big problem in my life and my family's life.



After the first month had passed and he made nothing we were unable to put our baby to daycare (which where we live costs only about a $100-200 less than a mortgage on an average house). Now that she is at home and not in daycare, the burden of working full time WHILE taking care of an infant is on my me every time my husband is out on his Primerica meetings or looking for another job (which he finally is). And even when he is at home taking care of her, just the fact that I have a baby screaming in the background while I'm on conference calls with my clients and co-workers is very damaging to my career. The sole income providing career in our family.



What am I to say to people I work with about why my baby is crying in the background? Should I tell them that my husband is an agent of Primerica who makes so much money that we had to turn him into a stay home dad? Would you? I don't know how much forward thinking you folks are in California, but down here in the South there is no such thing as stay home dad. None of the men or women I work with are stay-home parents or have spouses that are stay home parents.



Go ahead, you can criticize me all you want, but be honest with yourself and everyone here and tell me you would proud having to say that your husband stays at home because it is cheaper for him to do so than to go to work? Even if it is with the precious Primerica? For a month, maybe two months something like that could fly; three months no.



Somebody asked earlier whether my husband knows what I am saying here and if he is reading this? Ok, this is what he knows so far for sure: I had told him I posted a report on RipOffReport.com with our experience on how we are being lied to by Primerica and basically exploited. He didn't say anything to that and showed no interest in reading the report. Later on when he saw me typing another rebuttal/ comment he asked what I was doing and I said I was responding to people's comments to my report. He said: What are they saying? Well, this guy is telling me why smart people won't make it in Primerica, And what did you say? I said, BECAUSE THEY ARE SMART. Common, read it, please. And he said No, I really don't care. Why he doesn't care? Just read Anthony's first response to my report.



Make no mistake about it, even though he did not read any of this yet, he had heard every single thing I said here directly from me and multiple times. I even confronted him about the brainwashing thing. I am a very direct person, especially when it comes to people I love and whose interests I protect. And I know that he will read all of this at some point, hopefully when he is ready to absorb it and take it the right way.



To give you an update on where we are with the $199 refund - I did not go to see his trainer yesterday, I hurt my foot Saturday night and did not feel like going anywhere the next day. I call her couple of times since then and left her a message to call me back because I needed to talk to her about what was going on. She had not called me back since. She called my husband though and told him that one of his recruits sold something and that he is getting a check for it by this Wednesday. Didn't say for how much.



At this point in time we'll probably just take whatever and run with it. He will have a real job no later than the end of next week.
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#33 UPDATE Employee

Anthony in MD rebuttal

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

1. Citibank, partnered with Met Life (which still leaves a bad taste in my mouth - as we have replaced a ton of their whole life policies!) to market annuities (again the annuities offered are not the same as most traditional ones) - and Citi also have an agreement with GE Capital, in order to offer Long Term Care. I have not sold either of those plans, as yet, as the people I typically work with do not have a need for it. (using the FNA as a tool)



2. Most people do not typically go online for investing (or for that matter a broker) or to their a mortgage company for financial help. That's why the average 55 year old has less than $10,000 saved for retirement & the average household carries over $9,000 in credit card debt alone. Plus - over 50% (depending on locale - CA's much higher) of new mortgages, last year, were exotic mortgages, meaning ARM's (adjustable rate mortgages) or interest only mortgages.



Just last week ABC News showed a family who had an ARM & now 3-years later their payment went from $1700 a month to $3,000! Where's the mortgage company helping those people on that deal? They went through foreclosure cause they could not afford to make those payments. They trusted their mortgage company & look where it got them! This will soon become the norm instead of the exception. Already I'm hearing adds on the radio for buying homes that have gotten forclosed on!



3. Yes, anytime something's new that we offer thru Primerica, we have to work out a few "bugs" in their system. Such as Citifinancial or Travelers competing with PFS. If we replace any of their business, we still get paid. And they can't steal our clients or prospects as I believe you implied. And I must state one final time, I am licensed in all areas of PFS. Securities are Federally regulated & the insurance industry still gets regulated by each individual state. (McCarren-Ferguson Act exempts the insurance industry from "Sherman Anti-Trust Laws" & federal regulation).



Credit cards are not really bad. I use mine when I travel but pay-off the balance on the due date. It's just that people abuse them & get taken advantage of. It' like saying guns kill people. No it's people with a gun (baseball bat, knife, etc.) that can kill people! Part of the new bankruptcy law changes (that make it more difficult to file bankruptcy) also require the Credit card companies to double the minimum payment due on their cards. So now a family making the minimum payments have just had that doubled, so they can't even afford the minimums anymore. Who's the only company educating people about all of this "stuff" ? PFS that's who?



4. Car loans: We came out with it to test market it & in some areas of the country we were very competitive & in other areas over-priced. We lost money initially & so they pulled the plug, so that they could fix it & now they're getting ready to reissue P & C to the field force. One of the mutual funds that we marketed thought they could reduce our fees & still expect us to go out & sell more of them. We stopped offering them & they quickly changed their minds about paying us adequate compensation for our work. As for chargebacks, in order to remain compliant, those also get explained in training at our office.



The 4-reasons most people don't make it financially has to do with 4 basic reasons: 1. No written game plan. (we offer the FNA for free)2. No coach keeping them on track (RVP's office - monitoring accounts) 3. No companies working together in concert to achieve their goals & dreams (we have them all under one roof!) And The real killer, procrastination & a belief that their "company" will take care of them. We all saw what happened at Enron when their employees trusted Enron with their 401'K's!



And for Julie, anyone who starts a new career full-time on commission can expect little or no income, for a period of time. That's why we start almost everyone part-time. Although when we first went into Canada, they welcomed our part-time philosophy until the insurance industry up there went berserk! They got their government to pass laws that you had to be full-time & also increased the educational requirements to slow us down. But that did not work, as they're booming in Canada, now Great Britain, Spain & soon the world! Julie made a statement about her husband getting a 30% increase to a "Senior District" Promotion. Don't know where she got that from?? Its 25% - Rep, 50% for District, 60% for Division & 70% for Regional Leader - all part-time contracts.



Maybe if she would give some support & attend the partner's meetings or even training at their office & not try to tear him down, she might have a better understanding of the business. Behind every successful man is a woman keeping him that way! The opposite also is true, if she brow beats him enough & takes what she reads in this forum as gospel, he will throw in the towel & quit.



Yes, I may use some of Art's "lines" to emphasize a point, but I'm not brainwashed as you imply or that I am in a cult. I had a coach in high school that talked alot like Art & copying's the greatest form of flattery.. No poison in the Kool-Aid!



I realize I'm talking to a wall but you can riducule all you want, the fact remains we're here, we're growing by leaps & bounds & there's nothing you can do but b***h & moan; end of story.
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#34 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Responding to Julie's challenge (from Irvine)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

To make it clear Julie, my statement is regarding Citigroup, not Primerica.



In general I don't make statements unless I'm 100% sure about that it's absolutely true. I know that either Julie won't agree with what I'm about to say or she will ignore me which is another form of disagreement. What I'm about to say is for the visitors to this great website.



I've said that Citigroup has been heavily fined by the federal government for predatory lending and is currently being pursued by the government in court. Here are the details:



I'm excerpting from an article dated March 7, 2001:



"FTC Charges Associates, Citigroup With Predatory Lending Practices Damages Could Exceed $500 Million



March 7, 2001

The Federal Trade Commission has sued the Associates group and its parent company, Citigroup, charging them of using "systematic and widespread abusive lending practices" to deceive home-equity borrowers. It's the largest case ever brought for abusive or predatory lending practices by the FTC and could result in hundreds of millions of dollars in refunds to borrowers."



The following website reads like a book on Citigroup giving plenty of dirt on them:



What about Enron and WorldCom? First Enron:



"UC REACHES $2 BILLION SETTLEMENT WITH CITIGROUP IN ENRON SECURITIES CLASS ACTION



The University of California today (Friday) announced a $2 billion settlement with Citigroup in the Enron Corp. securities litigation. The settlement is subject to approval by the UC Board of Regents and the Board of Directors of Citigroup Inc., and court approval. The university is lead plaintiff representing a class of Enron investors who lost tens of billions of dollars."



The article is dated June 10, 2005.



Now for WorldCom:



Citigroup To Pay $2.65 Billion In WorldCom Fraud Settlement

By Gretchen Morgenson



The New York Times -- NEW YORK



Hoping to close the books on its role as lead banker to WorldCom, Citigroup agreed Monday to pay $2.65 billion to investors who bought stock and bonds in the telecommunications giant before its bankruptcy filing two years ago.



The payment is the largest ever by a bank, brokerage firm or auditor to settle a fraud case brought by investors who bought securities issued by a corporation that was advised by the one of those firms. It is the second-largest amount ever paid to settle a securities class action, trailing Cendant Corp.'s payment of $2.85 billion in 2000.

(the story was published on May 11, 2004.)



There's even more. Just Google Citigroup fraud.

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#35 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Gary is a totally predictable PFS clone

AUTHOR: Anthony - (U.S.A.)

For Gary (Witchita)



You are as transparent as a piece of glass. I can predicted all of your counter arguments because they've been rebutted countless times. What's really funny is your clinging to ancient text like Norman Dacey, Pushing up People (Art Williams). You forgot to mention All you can do is all you can do also by Art Williams. You have Art's vernacular down pack: I love Primerica, & all of you mealy mouths just make our crusade stronger & it creates a bigger market for us ... You forgot Dad gum crybaby Do you plan on coming back to this century? !News Flash! Art Williams is not in control anymore, more about that later.



Leroy of Tulare, has absolutely obliterated your arguments, Stuart has destroyed them, and even Susan from GA who was just exposed to you guys demolished them. Like my Dad use to say, Stick a fork in them they're done. But you will counter, we're not done, more for me, we're number one, missing the point like all PFS brainwashed drones. The summary of the complaints on this site is as follows: The company is successful deception, systematic and deliberate, plain and simple. But still you persist.



I've walked in your shoes like and many others, been there, done that, got the T-Shirt, but I'm sure you think I'm some kind of loser, whiner, complainer, did not work hard enough, etc.. rather than learn from others expereriences. And learn from all the complaints posted on this site. That choice is yours. Because of all the deception in PFS is why the decision to leave was a moral one. As a Christian you may find yourself facing a similar delimma at some point in your career. I'm no longer in the industry and have nothing to gain, except a clear vision to warn others.



For just a moment turn off the PFS switch if you can and listen:



1)PFS has partnered with Met Life, one of the biggest sellers of Trash value life insurance. Let's here you Trash them and your parent company that brought you that deal. Did PFS consult you before making this deal Gary?



2)You know (deep in your heart), as well as I do that the main purpose of the FNA is smoke and mirrors designed primarily to get the life insurance application and push loaded mutual funds. The SMART? Loan is typically at higher interest rates, see Leroy's demolishing of your arguments. The client can go on-line and get well-qualified no-load funds. The mortgage acceleration is used as a ploy to hide the fact that Citi-financial will charge them a higher interest rate. The client can do the exact same thing through their present mortgage company. You also charge too much for the Life Insurance, your rates can be blown away, see Leroy.



3)Many PFS agents (yourself included) trash banks and many lending institutions while representing Citi-financial and Citibank, in which a week does not go by that I don't get credit cards offers enticing one to get further in debt. Hypocrisy? No question. It's the same with Citifinancial in which every month they send me a letter offering to lend me 10,000 at some ridiculous interest rate that is buried in fine print. BTW the local Citfinancial offices are competing with you for the same business.



4)PFS Corporate is the business; you are just independent contractors that have to answer to their whim. Case in point when PFS decided to stop offering car insurance through Travelers did they consult the sales force? Nope, because they are only interested in preserving PFS and using people like you for as long as you'll ride the train. If they decide to change a product line, pay structure or program, they'll simply tell you it for your own good and you'll buy it and sell it to your people hook, line and sinker. They also own your recruits and your clients as clearly spelled out in your IBA. And contractual ownership is another carrot dangled by PFS corporate to keep you coming back. And then there is the double screwing when an agent gets into chargeback trouble. PFS pays or advances its payment to the writing agent. If the client changes his mind this results in a chargeback. If the agent quits PFS then pursues them for this money, tacking on penalties etc for non payment. This point is not emphasized at all when agents join, leaving them to learn the hard way.



I know, you'll say I'm totally upfront with my people etcthat's what you're expected to say and is totally anecdotal, however the lost of 100 of thousands perhaps millions of agents over 25 years says otherwise. You talk about all the people you recruit, but you don't say a word as to the why of all the people you've lost, you can play the some will, some won't , so what game all you want, someday it will catch up to you.



As for Julie:



To use your founders vernacular, you stepped in a pile of it



Regards,
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#36 UPDATE Employee

I'm still not being challenged!

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

Let me first start of by noting that on my first rebuttal where I wanted credible sources, Rip-off-Report took the liberty not to post all the links that were included in my rebuttal. That said you guys can go look them up yourself.



I am still not being challenged by any of you to show me credible sources that Primerica is a scam. Did any of you find anything from the State of California Department of Insurance (who regulates our industry)for example? Or anything else CREDIBLE for that matter.



The article you linked to doesn't show anything either! Of course our competition is going to trash talk. What do you expect? Does it show that Primerica is a scam, no!



Edwin-You were almost right in saying that I had forgotten to paste metamorphosis.html, but I had not, Int. Explorer doesn't paste that part automatically when you highlight it. Try it. I had to type that part in separately.



As far as apologizing to Susan, why? I am merely defending her husband. I would never go to a website and speak badly about my husband. Also, I would definitely do my homework before accusing a company of being a scam. As she keeps on mentioning that she has an MBA, I will bring that up too.



I would hope that she must have had to do research papers in the course of getting her degree. Just like I did. Yet she concludes that a company is a scam just by observing a few things (a big no no in research papers). I see no sources, facts or again anything credible for that matter.



None of you guys are.



Susan- I do not mean to pick on you like that, but I do not know anybody else's educational background and you make such a point of having an MBA that I know that you know, what I am talking about.



Stuart- Again you try to throw out these accusations that we are being pursued in court: show me, that is all I ask. (note: I have already addressed the one Susan try to put in here)
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#37 Consumer Suggestion

Julie's the ignorant one

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Stuart, I believe I know the reason why Julie is unable to find the website that you've listed. When she copied and pasted your link, she doesn't realize that there is a word wrap that separates the slash (/) with the word "Metamorphosis.html". Internet Explorer is unable to handle the word wrap. As a result, she only pasted



http://ww3.primerica.com/public/who/articles/



to her website, instead of the complete website with the "metamorphosis.html" word following the "/" character.



Julie, try visiting the webiste and make sure that "metamorphosis.html" is within your link. And by the way, if my what I said is correct, it shows



1. You are either very limited with computer usage, or



2. you are an individual who is unable to pay attention to some very obvious details like the URL that you are trying to reach



I would also say you are also an inattentive agent because you don't even know that your own company has this website.



My appologizes to the kind hearted inviduals who works at Primerica who feel offended by my harshness towards your colleague. I fully understand I'm being a jerk in this post, but when Julie makes unappropriate statements like telling Susan's husband to find a better woman, she is pretty much asking to be treated like dirt. I do understand that there are kind hearted people who works at Primerica whose intention is to help others, and I feel sorry for you to have somebody who is as rude, ignorant, and unprofessional as Julie to be representing your company.



Now, I would like to say something to Julie. You probably would want to throw insults at me after reading what I've written, but do what benefits will you get out of that? The more insults you throw at me or others who disagree with Primerica's way, the more you're telling the public how unprofessional representitives from Primerica behave. You don't want to scare potential clients away from Primerica, do you?



I've got a suggestion. Why don't you post a formal and sincere appology to Susan? You will not only be doing youself a favour, but you're doing Primerica a favour too. Do you know how much respect people lose for both you and Primerica after they see how people representing Primerica will tell others that their husband should find a better wife? Having the guts to admit your mistakes and appologize sincerely for it is a very good way to rectify your mistake and to mend the damange that you have done to your own company's reputation. Rude Primerica agents' behaviour will do far more damage to your company's reputation than accusations that naysayers make.



One last note Julie, don't know whether you still want to yell at me, but I don't think you can resolve anything if you start a heated fight with me. So for your benefit, my benefit, and Primerica reputation's benefit, I hope you wouldn't so that. I do understand I started off being very harsh and extremely rude to you, as I truly believed you deserve to be talked to like that when this is the same way how you talk to others. I really hope in real life, you're a much nicer person than how you've represented yourself (and also how you've respresented Primerica) in this post. Sometimes, a person will say many things that you won't mean. I hope what you've said earlier was out of frustration and you didn't mean any of the things that you've said. Making comments like that while representing yourself as a agent of Primerica will actually damage your company rather than defend it (It seems Primerica never taught you this simple concept. Eventhough we will disagree on many things, I hope both of us will learn many new things as we exchange posts on ripoffreport.com)
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#38 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rebutting Julie (Irvine)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

"Oh my gosh, Stuart, you almost had me there for a second with your link to a website. Oh but wait a minute, the link does not exist!!! What a surprise!"



For someone who can't spell waste (waist), I'm not surprised by your statement. I prefer to believe you're an outright liar as the link does exist Since the metamorphic website was set up by corporate Primerica, I'll let you contact your master fat cats who'll tell you how to access the website. Yes that link does exist and it's been working.



Julie you'll have to do better as the only support you'll get on this website is from a fellow shiller.
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#39 UPDATE Employee

Nice try Stuart!

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

Oh my gosh, Stuart, you almost had me there for a second with your link to a website. Oh but wait a minute, the link does not exist!!! What a surprise!



I actually thought somebody had taken me up on my challenge. But once again you miserably failed.



Susan- (1).The way your husband is trying to recruit people is against company policy. Have him go to our POL (he will know what that is) to the comliance section. It specifically saus that your are not to got to job recruiting/ resume websites to recruit prospects.



(2)About your comment about him not making any money. This goes to show everybody your ignorance about the business world. If your husband opened a real estate business or a restaurant, do you think he would be a making a PROFIT after a few months? Most likely not. Go ask anybody who has started their own business.



(3) I feel sorry for husband for having such an unsupportive wife. I hope he finds himself a better woman. You should be ashamed of yourself.



On that note, I will not be waisting any more time on this, Gary- keep it up, you are doing good. I will rebuttal once in a while when I do have time to waist.
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#40 UPDATE EX-employee responds

My special 5-point program to make the most in the shortest time possible at Primerica

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

The information I'm about to present is so important, it bears repeating on a daily basis at Ripoff Report:



(1) Get licensed before going on appointments with your friends and relatives.



(2) Get referrals from your prospects and don't share them with anybody else (not even your "trainer").



(3) Cut out your "trainer" who is the middleman.



(4) Don't list the names of any references on the

sign-up application sheet.



(5) (bonus step) Try working off your referrals instead of going to shopping malls and job fairs. Your chances of selling would be far better when you use your referrals wisely (and easier on your feet and car gas)."



In general, the so-called trainers from Primerica

aren't licensed to train nor have they taken courses on finance in general, the only license they carry is to sell. That's why your upline goes after your friends and relatives (your warm market) to fatten his commission at your expense.

You can always learn how to sell for free from off the internet or read about it at the library.



So protect your warm market as it's YOUR MONEY, YOUR COMMISSION that you're entitled to. Don't let others steal that from you as it represents your best opportunity to make commission at Primerica.



Get your license and sell to your warm market as you don't need a trainer for that (if the trainer insists on training, let him find someone from his own clientele to demonstrate with).



Gary from Wichita says, "Well, now! I love Primerica. And you do not... so what?" I could love Primerica and their crooked parent, Citigroup, if they reformed but why hold my breath for a miracle that won't be?



I have a snake by the tail and I won't let go. As per usual all a shiller offers is half-truths and

outright lies as the picture he paints is very incomplete. So let me help you finish that painting Gary. Quoting:



"We do reimburse $200 after the training gets completed. Any unused moneys from the $199 gets refunded if they change their minds & quit. If they have gone thru PFS exam preparation classes (including the study materials) & the background check - which is what the $199 pays for, & then quit .... yep ... too bad so sad!" Not true.



First you must get licensed, then you must await commissions to get paid (according to Ron from Bonita) which isn't a true payback because it depends on the sales you make. When you quit, Primerica keeps $50 for itself automatically for checking out your background (not all of the $199

goes for your "education").



"Have you ever enrolled in a college class paid your fees & tuition, bought your books & then for whatever reason - half way through the semester, you quit going to class cause you didn't like it or the teacher, or for no reason at all ... or whatever?? Does the university refund your tuition & fees? Not hardly! So why should we be any different." But Primerica is different because:



(1) A portion of the money ($50) goes for a background check, not for "education."

(2) The so-called education isn't, in general, from a financial advisor nor a professional. The only license, in general, that your "trainer" carries is a license to sell so you won't get a

financial eduaction, only learn about selling which anybody can do with a little Primerica product knowledge.

(3) Primerica doesn't like it when you quit and go

to a competing company or become an independent preferring to brand you as a "loser" (check the Ripoff Reports).

(4) As far as quitting halfway through the course, many places would let you attend a week of class and refund you the tuition when you quit at that point. Try it with Primerica and see what happens.



"In some states the state requires a fee of well over that $199 which PFS pays anything over & above the $199, to keep the playing field level in the beginning for the new reps in all of the 50 states. Outright lie as Primerica doesn't pay a thin dime of tuition - all they pay is commission. (if you disagree with this Gary, all you need to do is document this with Ripoff Report - just send in a copy of a check where it specifies that the payment goes for licensing/education fees).



"Almost everyone, almost all of the time, almost wants to make more money, almost is a way of life for almost all of them... they almost make it. Tey're almost over the hump ... but almost everyone does not have the stamina to go the long haul. But we can't look inside of a person to see if they have the goodies or not. There's not a test devised by man that can accurately do that. right?"



Wrong. It's not a matter of stamina. You just have to be efficient at selling while being honest and forthright. Close to 100% of the people already have it in them to be successful, they just have to be shown how and explained to properly on how to accomplish it - you don't have to break your back at Primerica to do it.
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#41 UPDATE Employee

Stuart in NJ

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Well, now! I love Primerica. And you do not... so what?



We do reimburse $200 after the training gets completed. Any unused moneys from the $199 gets refunded if they change their minds & quit. If they have gone thru PFS exam preparation classes (including the study materials) & the background check - which is what the $199 pays for, & then quit .... yep ... too bad so sad!



Have you ever enrolled in a college class paid your fees & tuition, bought your books & then for whatever reason - half way through the semester, you quit going to class cause you didn't like it or the teacher, or for no reason at all ... or whatever?? Does the university refund your tuition & fees? Not hardly! So why should we be any different.



In some states the state requires a fee of well over that $199 which PFS pays anything over & above the $199, to keep the playing field level in the beginning for the new reps in all of the 50 states. It's not my fault or the company's fault if they quit... that's their choice, what can can we do about that? Almost everyone, almost all of the time, almost wants to make more money, almost is a way of life for almost all of them... they almost make it ... they're almost over the hump ... but almost everyone does not have the stamina to go the long haul... but we can't look inside of a person to see if they have the goodies or not. There's not a test devised by man that can accurately do that ... right? But these new recruits will say, "you can count on me!" or I'll never let you down!" and two weeks later they've entered the "witness protection program" !! This happens in corporate american ... I believe it's universal. So why would that make us any different at PFS? I let people know right up front what the numbers are: 100 recruits = 50 quitters & 50 taking their exam & about 40 will pass the first time = 35 producers = (20 consistent producers of that 35) & 2 people = RVP! But we do not know which one is that 20%-er.



I love Primerica, & all of you mealy mouths just make our crusade stronger & it creates a bigger market for us ...
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#42 Author of original report

To Julie and Garry

AUTHOR: Susan - (U.S.A.)

To Julie;



I don't need a credible source to tell me that what my husband is doing is shady or that what is being done to us is a scam. I am not blind nor do I need anyone to tell me what to think about a company whose operations I see on daily basis. My husband is working for Primerica full time, had not made any money from it in almost 3 months and all he does is call on recruits found on CareerBuilder.com and gives them the same sales pitch over and over again. When he was hired by Primerica he was told we would be working as a financial advisor. That is a flat out lie and would be illegal for him to do Primerica's salespeople doing what him and his vice-senior presidents do only have a license to sell financial products and not to act as financial advisors.



My husband and I were also promised straight up that he would make $565 dollars worth of insurance policies his first month whether he sold anything or not. Its been almost 3 months since then and he had not made a cent from Primerica. Do I need A.M.Best or S&P to tell me that this called scam? No. Do I need to read in Wall Street Journal that Primerica is shady to understand what's going on? No.



When about a week ago he came home to tell me that he got promoted from a District Leader to a Senior District Leader and got a 30% raise I busted out laughing. I couldn't help asking: So now you are getting paid 30% more than that zero you were getting before? How much does that come to? Do I need Forbes to tell me that a company throwing titles and raises like that is a joke? No.



The fact that Primerica is part of Citigroup or any other company for that matter proves absolutely nothing and is completely irrelevant. There are many companies and their subsidiaries a lot bigger than Citigroup that had failed miserably for various reasons in most cases when shady operations were discovered.

On the $199 comment: I am meeting with the trainer tomorrow. I am going to ask her to refund us the money if he does not make the promised $565 within a week from tomorrow. I will be glad to post the information on what she does about this to approve or disapprove your statement that Primerica gives back the $199 once the training is completed.



To Gary from Wichita on Why MBAs or Smart People Won't Make it in Primerica:



To put it simply: BECAUSE THEY ARE SMART



This particular MBA you are talking to is working for a publicly traded company about 42-43 hours a week from her home in her pajamas while you are driving around paying $3 a gallon to do your kitchen tables and training meetings 50-60 hours a week desperately hoping to make a half of what she's making. If you think that's reinventing the wheel or not wanting to work, go right ahead I'll leave all of the hard work to you and rest of Primericans. Or are you one of those Primerica folks that are still in denial about just how little money you make and how much you are working? You can say whatever you want, just don't tell me that your MLM machine is working for you to where you can kick back and watch the money roll in. Because that is called reinventing the broken MLM wheel over and over again.



And Gary: You are special. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
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#43 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rebutting Julie (Irvine)

AUTHOR: Stuart - (U.S.A.)

"I would like to challenge all of you out there to find me some CREDIBLE sources that Primerica is in any shape or form a scam or "shady" Your request is my command Julie. Let's start with what Primericans must regard as their #1 credible source, their very own metamorphosis website (the web address is:

http://ww3.primerica.com/public/who/articles/

metamorphosis.html



From Page 2 of the metamorphosis website:



"PFS agents still have a reputation within the industry as unsophisticated, poorly trained part-timers who sell overpriced, simple products -- and then drop out."



From Page 2:



"In some industry circles, Travelers Life has been tainted by its association with Primerica."



Is Primerica a pyramid-schemed company? From Page 1:



"The company still relies on a pyramid-like sales force of part-time independent contractors."



"We are a member of Citigroup: The World's largest Financial services company." Also the world's largest fraudulent financial services company which has been fined heavily by the federal government for predatory lending and is currently being pursued in court.



"Remember that in every company (especially as big as ours) there are some bad apples." Remember too that Crimerica is ruled by the fat cats at the top of this pyramid-schemed company.



"FYI the $199 is given back to you at the end of your trainng." Not true. Ron from Bonita says you are credited for the six training appointments, but only after you get a license.
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#44 UPDATE Employee

Way to Go Julie!

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

Most excellent I must say! I love Primerica, and to all of those nay-sayers, belly achers & meally mouths out there & ex- or current whole life agents also included: Take a hike! They've been saying this cr*p about PFS since it first started back in 1977. The industry's tried to regulate us out of business & have us outlawed in 48 states.. Well me must be doing great in those other 2 states as we recruited more people in the last quarter of 2005 than the entire industry did all year! That does not mean they will all stay or even make it, only the person joining us can make that decision. I'm so thankful that someone saw something special in me & gave me a chance to be somebody... I became a born again Christian as a direct result of joining PFS. OH - Oh!! Bet I stepped on some toes with that remark... OK, so we're a cult now... well get over it!
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#45 Consumer Suggestion

Look at the facts

AUTHOR: Julie - (U.S.A.)

I would like to challenge all of you out there to find me some CREDIBLE sources that Primerica is in any shape or form a scam or "shady"



To those of you who lack the education of knowing what a "credible" source is:

examples:



-A reputable business journal/magazine: like The Wall street Journal, Forbes, Money magazine etc..



-How a ranking agency within the financial industry has ranked the company (We have a very strong ranking with both A.M.Best and S&P

(http://ww3.primerica.com/public/ratings.html)



Anyone who knows anything about finance will know about these two rating agencies. If you don't believe it you can always go to those companies websites



-Who the company is affiliated with: We are a member of Citigroup: The World's largest Financial services company



And for those who are so skeptical and don't believe that either go to



Or just go to citigroup.com and click on "our businesses"



I am not going to waist any more time on this but please notice that I gave you facts and backed them up with sources even Ken Young could not do that (which was 20 years ago by the way). Remember that in every company (especially as big as ours) there are some bad apples.



while I am at it: Susan- Have you read the litigation report that you linked to? It is about 4 bad representatives, out of 100,000 that we have, it is bound to happen.



FYI the $199 is given back to you at the end of your trainng. And yes, Primerica does pay for it.



CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#46 Consumer Comment

Timothy and the warm market

AUTHOR: Leroy - (U.S.A.)

Timothy talks about how each Primerica chance brings along with it a "warm market" willing to buy out of love, trust and ackwardness and not the quality of the products sold.



That reminds me of a companion point. I've seen primeridorks proudly proclaim primerica does no advertising. It does no mass advertising. part of the evil genius of A.L. Williams in creating this business model was that he knew that rather than having TCV ads with happy smiling families or celebrity pitchmen trying to convince you to call an agent, he'd have Cousin Larry deliver the pitch right in the target market's living room. Cousin larry has immediate access, immediate trust, the good wishes of the prospect, and the added but powerful inducement to buy that saying no to Cousin larry is going to be a helluva lot toughr than saying no to a stranger.



Having Cousin larry deliver the pitch has the added bonus that a ticked off client is far less likely to file an official complaint against the salesman when the client will have to sit at the Thanksgiving table with a shaerd grandma and grandpa.



Not paying for mass media advertising hasn't translated into a lower price for consumers however. In fact the opposite has proven true. Primerica's acquisition cost per policy is significantly higher than other companies because of the bloated pyramid commission schedule. That has translated into higher rates.
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#47 Consumer Comment

The "Chance"

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Gary believes in giving everyone a chance. How noble! I guess we all had this Primerica thing dead wrong.



But wait . . .



What about the fact that each "chance" costs $199? Primerica is giving everybody a "chance" in the same sense that the state lottery is giving everybody a "chance."



And how convenient that the "chance" comes with NO COST and NO RISK to Primerica! Other employers assume the risk that a new employee won't work out; Primerica places it entirely on the recruit. How altruistic!



And how convenient that every "chance" brings with it a "warm market" of friends and relatives willing to purchase out of love, trust, and awkwardness rather than for the quality of the product! Oh, and you say this makes up the vast majority of sales? Wow!



Try harder next time. Your sorry arguments have been raised and sunk a hundred times over. I could shoot down the rest, but I would just be echoing the sentiments of a thousand previous rebuttals.
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#48 UPDATE Employee

Primerica Rebuttal to Pyramid Scheme

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

First of All, Primerica can't get classified as a Pyramid Scheme as "pyramids" in all states have gotten declared illegal.



I might preface my comments by stating that I am a Regional Manager with Primerica Financial Services & a near term Regional Vice President.

Primerica works within a framework of the most highly regulated industry & that's Insurance, Debt Consolidation, & Investments. We all have to get State licensed & must fulfill annual compliance to make sure we do not do anything illegal or unethical. Therefore, I find your statements about Primerica hard to believe. But then again I have gone to McDonalds that I wouldn't ever go back to - due to uncleanliness, but that did not stop from going to other "Micky-D's". You know what I mean?



Sadly the people who don't make it in Primerica (PFS) just do not work & make excuses or blame the company for their failures. But the people who work in ethically building their businesses & have "coachability" will make it at whatever income level they choose. Out of 100 people we recruit (not hire), 50 will quit before they even give themselves a chance (mainly cause they take advice from people who have never done anything in their life but whine & complain) but that's just human nature. The remaining 50 will get licensed but of those 50 only about 20 (20%'ers) will stay long term & make great incomes. Of the original 100 only 2% will become RVP's (Regional Vice Presidents). MBA's usually won't make it or smart people, as they always try to find excuses why something won't work or try to reinvent the wheel, instead of just working. And that's OK. The reason we recruit the masses: We can't look inside of a person to see if they have the "goodies" or not. We give them a chance & that's all. Waddell & Reed years ago used to allow their managers to recruit only 5 people a year knowing only one would make it & that's after exhaustive resume's & applications have gotten filtered through to those final 5. We believe in giving people a chance so we recruit for attitude & train for skills, still knowing that only 20% will make it. But 20 producers versas one will generate a lot more business, true or false?

Now about multi-level marketing: About 10 million people in the United States belong to some sort of MLM organization, Avon, Mary Kay, AmWay (which I understand has changed their name), etc. But only around 10,000 of those people make over $100,000 per year. Of those 10,000 people - roughly 2400 work with Primerica, there's a message in that, wouldn't you agree? We have built a hybrid MLM taking the best & discarding the rest. I have the same licenses, training & experience of any Merrill Lynch representative & I come from an engineering background. Before PFS I had hit the glass ceiling at my JOB & did not want to work for someone else the rest of my life & have nothing to show for it but a stack of pay stubs & in debt up to my eyeballs with no retirement.



Finally I hope you have the intestinal fortitude to show this to your husband. This opportunity's simple, but not easy cause then everyone would be doing it! We're on a Name credability tidal wave & within 3-5 years our company will double in size with our without your husband.



Gary

Wichita, Kansas
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#49 Consumer Comment

Thanx for Advice & Questions on Merril Lynch & Ban in NY

AUTHOR: Miljana - (U.S.A.)

Thanks to Anthony for advice and support.



We have some good news and some bad news. Good news is that I had eased off my husband into the idea of looking for another (or as he sees it additional) job. Next week he is going for an interview with Atlanta based company called ControlScan (http://www.controlscan.com). Does anyone know anything about them? I would hate for him to jump into some other bad working situation and than come back to Primerica as a rescue.

Bad news is exactly what Anthony predicated: my husband just signed up for Primerica's retreat at Callaway Gardens. Hotel, seminar, travel, the whole nine yards. Haven't seen the bill yet, but its coming.



For Edwin from Canada,



I think this ban was few years back and had been lifted. I just emailed the person whose site I read this on http://primericabuster.bravepages.com. and asked about it. I also directed him to this ripoff report asking to comment on your question about Merrill Lynch.



Thank you!
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#50 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Prepare to Dig In

AUTHOR: Anthony - (U.S.A.)

For Susan of Atlanta, Ga



Dig in, pretty soon you will be dealing with Fast Start Schools, Builders Schools,

Retreats etcdesigned to re-enforce the brainwashing and these events will cost you so keep good records for taxes. It will be difficult to get through to your husband during this period, be patient. One possible tactic you can use is to get him to agree to a cooling off period of at least 30 days. After all if the opportunity is so great (notice tonque in cheek) then it can certaintly wait 30 days, right? During this period your husband is not to attend a PFS meeting, make phone calls and avoid all PFS activity. Have him look at other career possibilities; go on interviews, etc... After this time the fog may clear and rational behavior may return. BTW he'll be in complete denial about the whole brainwashing bit, this is a key symptom. I know this sounds almost clinical and to some people even comical but it is for real. I've experienced it and have seen it happen countless times. Good luck.



Regards,
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#51 Consumer Comment

2 questions

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Hi Susan,



You mentioned that Primerica has been banned from operating from the State of New York for 2 years. There has just been a recent ripoff report about primerica from Bronx



http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff183937.htm



Do you know whether this ban has been lifted already?



I've got another question. Maybe other financial experts can help me on this too. I find it interesting that Susan mentions how a Primerica rep once again says that it is better than Merryl Lynch because Merryl Lynch will only talk to you if you have over 100K.



My question about Merryl Lynch is, does it offer privately managed funds to its clients? I know some financial companies which only accept clients with over a certain amount of asset - but the advantage is that the funds that they sell you are privately managed funds and its mangement fees are a lot less than the ones out there in the market (ie you get a higher rate of return). Is this the case with Merryl Lynch's funds? Is the Primerica rep once again making deceiving comparisons by comparing itself with Merryl Lynch? Or does that Primerica rep have a valid point?
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#52 Consumer Comment

2 questions

AUTHOR: Edwin - (Canada)

Hi Susan,



You mentioned that Primerica has been banned from operating from the State of New York for 2 years. There has just been a recent ripoff report about primerica from Bronx



http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff183937.htm



Do you know whether this ban has been lifted already?



I've got another question. Maybe other financial experts can help me on this too. I find it interesting that Susan mentions how a Primerica rep once again says that it is better than Merryl Lynch because Merryl Lynch will only talk to you if you have over 100K.



My question about Merryl Lynch is, does it offer privately managed funds to its clients? I know some financial companies which only accept clients with over a certain amount of asset - but the advantage is that the funds that they sell you are privately managed funds and its mangement fees are a lot less than the ones out there in the market (ie you get a higher rate of return). Is this the case with Merryl Lynch's funds? Is the Primerica rep once again making deceiving comparisons by comparing itself with Merryl Lynch? Or does that Primerica rep have a valid point?
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