Primerica Primerica Dream Givers (WHAT THEY DID TO ME!) Los Angles California

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*UPDATE: Primerica recognized by Rip-off Report a business opportunity well worth considering - it's not for everyone but many representatives make solid commission incomes. Primerica takes appropriate action against representatives conducting themselves improperly, pledges 100% commitment to customer service.

#1. Called Smith Barney, which is now Legg mason's marketing arm. I told him about someone telling me Legg-Mason had funds that had averaged over 15% since inception 25 years ago. He said he knew of none. He got me into the website where I could do a search of performance of Legg mason funds. He instructed me how to do it. We did find one fund (symbol SAKPX)which had averaged 13.86% since its inception in 1976....however......IT WAS A NO-LOAD FUND!!!
Changing to a loaded fund means a representative suggesting it to a client cannot use that previous history, only its current history.

This is not to say that Legg Mason funds are not
a good fund family, HOWEVER, past performance is not to be used as an indicator or predictor of future performance. Funds can go from top performers to slackers overnight for a variety of reasons, most often the death or retirement of the fund manager.

Finally, involving my input error on calculating the rate differential between primerica 20 year term and 30 year return of premium term......I started thinking I probably made the same error on the 30 year quote since I inputted age (where I made the error) only once and then bounced around the quoting engine. I was right, the correct premium for this woman's 30 year return of premium term is $529 a year, meaning only a $32 difference.

That ameans the real investment calculation is based on $32 a year for 20 years at 13.86, then 10 years putting in $497 at the same rate. The figure comes out just over $23,500. In the return of premium term the woman will recieve $15,870 which is
< guaranteed
< government backed
< income and capital gains TAX FREE
< not subject to fluctuations in the stock market or interest rate markets.

In addition the woman would have had $250,000 of protection between ages 65-75, prime dying years.
Under your calculation she would have none.

Given those choices MOST people would take the return of premium term over primerica's expensive term. A good number of people are more concerned with the return OF their money and not the return ON their money.

Those who believe in buy term and invest the rest would absolutely take $272 premium over primerica's $497 premium if they know about it.

Either way primerica's expensive term doesn't meet their needs. People ned an INDEPENDENT advisor to sghow them all the possibilities, not a shill from one company repeating a canned sales pitch. They need an independent, not an adviser that relies on the close personal relationship of client and shill to move expensive products.

A. I quoted $577, not $582. $577-497 is still $80 a year, not $85. Making a typo in inputting info is a mistake not a lie. Sticking to the mistake is a lie.

B. I searched website at MorningStar plus I Googled and went to Ask.com looking for any mutual fund that averaged 15% over 30 years. Couldn't find one. I'll call Legg Mason tomorrow and ask them specifically.

C. "PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT A GUARANTEE NOR A PREDICTOR OF FUTURE PERFORMANCE". Remember that disclaimer? It is on each and every mutual fund brochure and prospectus. Its there for a reason.
Managers at funds change, circumstances change, performance. Fidelity magellan was the most successful mutual fund of all time and now its a poor performer. You're asking us to believe that no change in the fabulous growth at Legg Mason funds is possible over the next 30 years.

D. can't quote more than 12% on any variable life product. TRUE! You are not allowed to project ANY GROWTH AT ALL FOR ANY TIME PERIOD when discussing mutual funds. NONE, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA. You are not allowed to project any growth 1 day in to the future on a mutual fund let alone 30 years.

E. Term Rate comparisons. Primerica is close to double the rate the lowest company rated A OR BETTER had, (272 versus 497). I don't know about companies rated below A. Don't sell them. In fact, only 5 companies were higher than primerica on the 45 year old women quoted FOR THE SAME UNDERWRITING CLASSIFICATION!!!!!! More than 100 were lower. Those were for rates updated and downloaded on Nov 16, 2oo6.

F. Apples to Apples. Buy $272 term versus $497 term and invest the difference for 20 years, then all of it for 10 more...using your own 14.2% rate. Good guy's accumulation 30 year $113,000....primerica $46,000.

Any nonsensical propaganda about primerica term having more value than other term policies is just that, nonsensical propaganda. If you want to buy term and invest the rest buy INEXPENSIVE TERM, not primerica term. The point is not how many companies are more than primerica, the point is PRIMERICA CHARGES $497 when the same policy is available elsewhere from an A+ rated company for $272. If your philosophy is buy term and invest the rest why would you care how many companies were more than he rate the primerica rep in front of you is asking for?????

G. The cash value only salesman is dead!!!! It is a boogeyman that now exists only in the minds of primericans. You saying it ain't so doesn't make it not so. Unlike the insulated primerica rep I actually know a lot of people in this business who work at different places than I do (I'm self employed independent by the way). NONE, repeat NONE sell cash value policies exclusively. 90% of the policies I sell are term.

The others may sell a smaller % of term than I do
but absolutely none of them sell 100% cash value policies. None of them are even close. What primerica doesn't want you newbies to know is that term policies pay anywhere from 80% to 105% commission to the agent from the very first policy they sell. Agents DO NOT HAVE A FINANCIAL DISINCENTIVE to sell term policies despite what your captors tell you.

Step off your trike for a second Jay and think, how could primerica stay in business for 29 years and be backed by the largest company on Earth in the most regulated industry in the world all the while committing criminal acts and competing 90% higher than the competition. A sub-par first year law student would realize that's not possible, right Counselor? (We get it, crimerica instead of Primerica. Fancy wordplay. You think that one up all by yourself, Sherlock? 19 years of practicing law and that's the best you got?) More propaganda by the masses, after midnight. Much like the Whole Life agent "Leroy" I smelled out before he admitted it, and now claims the whole life salesmen is dead, funny 3 More will be replaced this week. The loans provided by primerica cut years off debt and get people focused on time in debt and total cost, rather than interest rate and monthly payment. The Mortgage industry would love to have you, Jay. The world needs another time drawn, rate focused lender about as much as it needs another, juvenile-overpriced-egomaniacal-Lionel-Hutz-Wannabe-Ambulance-chasing-martini-swilling-thrice-divorced-jacked up lawyer. But my lower level education wouldn't allow me to understand what a JD "Juris Doctor" is.

I guess the real problem you have here is that a Wendy's manager or gas station attendant can make more money and have a stronger financial understanding than you without going $100,000 in debt to Sallie Mae. Good luck with those payments, slick. Between that and the alimony you're gonna have to sell the Iroc-Z. (But don't worry, you can still play the Miami Vice Soundtrack in your room when nobody else is listening.)

So lets not sling mud, and lets lighten up just a bit.

Lifes to Short. Can't we all just get along?

Oh and as for your statement to tungsten that "the death of the cash value salesman happened 20 years ago", somebody needs to tell that to the legions of cash value salesman out there today. I'm reminded of the old Abbott and Costello skit where Abbott is being chased by Dracula. He (Abbott) runs in a room and shuts the door and sees Costello standing there and informs him that Dracula is chasing him through the castle. Costello tells him that he's crazy and that there is no such things as Dracula. Abbott replies "I know that, and you know that. But Dracula doesn't know that!"

I had cash value. Many of my friends and family had cash value. I replace cash value policies almost daily. They're everywhere! Hopefully someday the cash value salesman will be dead and gone. But as for today he is alive and kicking!

My goodness Leroy, there are so many things wrong with your post I don't even know where to begin. First of all, the 85 dollars comes from the $582 you yourself quoted for the return of premium policy. A twenty year term for a 45 year old healthy non smoking woman is $497 a year. The difference between the two is 85 dollars. Can you understand that, or shall I use smaller words?

Second, you misunderstood the investment as well. You quoted (or should I say misquoted) a 20 year Primerica policy. The 85 dollar difference could be invested each year for twenty years would be invested in a mutual fund. Then, once the 20 years is up the $582 a year could be invested and the total would be $44,389 using the past performance (which, admittedly so, is no guarantee of future returns) of one of Legg Mason's signature funds. As a side note, this isn't even Legg Mason's best performing fund. They have funds that have averaged over 15% since inception 25 years ago. I'm surprised you don't know this given all the "expertise" you claim to have.

So let's recap, I've already caught you in one lie and you yourself have already made a few mistakes in quoting. Now I've just caught you in another mistake:

"The most the NASD will allow for any illustration is 12.0%"

Not true. There is nothing wrong with showing a fund that has averaged a specific rate of return, even if that return is over 12%. Also, I'm not making any recommendations so there is also nothing wrong with quoting the historical performance of a fund. There is nothing wrong with stating in a public chat room "We have a fund that has averaged X% since inception." Even if X is higher than 12%. I have to question how educated you even are to say something like the above quote.

"THE REAL POINT OF THE STORY IS THIS. This same 45 year old woman woman could buy $250,000 of twenty year term for $272 a year from another A+ rated company."

So now you're changing your B.S. story?? Return of premium is not the way to go now? What a shock. But what I find even less shocking is you are now giving out a $272 quote for straight term, without revealing any details of the policy. Is this already guaranteed to a client? Have they taken a physical? Have they been given a policy in writing? Are the premiums guaranteed for the life of the policy? Do they have to re-qualify medically at the end of the term to get a new TERM policy? Is there and increasing benefit rider? Waiver of Premium rider? Terminal Illness benefit rider? Furthermore, if they insured dies, how soon is the death claim paid and how is it delivered? Does the beneficiary get a check in the mail or left between her screen door and front door? How long does it take for the death benefit to be delivered?

I know a lady who had cheap term insurance that her husband bought on the internet for the two of them. He got diagnosed with cancer. Nine months later he died. Five months later the insurance company paid her the $400,000 death benefit. Someone had left it snug in her screen door, like a flier. Only problem is she lost her house because during that 5 months (and the preceding few months) the husband's income was gone and she couldn't pay the bills on just her salary. There was no terminal illness benefit rider on the policy and even after he died they waited 5 months to pay. Is that worth saving 11 dollars a month in premiums? I think not.

Primerica isn't the cheapest insurance on the market for the same reason that a Ferrari isn't the cheapest car on the market. We don't want to be cheapest. We want to be the best and we are the best. You get what you pay for. Maybe some day you'll learn that.


PS: Primerica isn't that expensive. Remember our quote for a healthy nonsmoking female for a 20 year policy is $497. Checking on lifequotes.com for the same healthy, non-smoking 45 year old female the rates are as low as $288 a year and as high as $3,053 a year. Out of the 220 quotes, PFS was less expensive than 187 of them. That's certainly not 'expensive' by any stretch of the imagination.

The only people who say Primerica's insurance is expensive are other agents who have a financial interest in making Primerica look bad.

while youre waiting for the little green men to come down and take you away from your Crimerica version of Jonestown, put down the koolaid and answer this:

is your term insurance priced higher than 90% of the competition?

is your not so smart loan priced 2% higher than most loans costing your clients tens of thousands in extra interest payments? do you actually believe interest rates dont matter only time in debt matters?

do you rape and pillage the warm market of all your new "recruits"?

why does the average crimerican recruit at the gas station, drive thru and the local orange julius at the shopping mall?

as for me you undereducated assclown, i have JD, have practiced law for 19 years and gained my CFP designation 6 years ago. i could buy and sell you and you leisure suit wearing Dodge Dart driving RVP ten times over.
have a nice life.

To begin with $557 minus 497 = $80, not $85. Yes I found my mistake. I had inputted age 45 with a nearest birthday of age 46 instead of 45. Sorry. Is that any worse than doing an entire calculation based on $557-497=85?

Now that the little mistakes have been dealt with lets look a bit farther. What ungodly interest rate were you using to come with $85 invested per year equaling $44,000 in 30 years???? Here, I'll tell you what rate you used. FOURTEEN PERCENT. To be more specific.....14.2%. NAME ONE fund that has averaged 14.2% over 30 years. I couldn't find any. Maybe I was using the wrong resource to find one. 14.2% is an even more ridiculous number than the average primerica part-timer uses. The most the NASD will allow for any illustration is 12.0% and here you are using 14.2% IN A PUBLIC FORUM!!!! Go ask your compliance officer at primerica if thats a good idea or not.

THE REAL POINT OF THE STORY IS THIS. This same 45 year old woman woman could buy $250,000 of twenty year term for $272 a year from another A+ rated company. That $227 a year LESS than primerica charges. Using your own logic that $227 a year invested in that very same mutual fund you made up earning 14.2% would have $27,000 saved up after 20 years as compared to $ZERO with primerica. Is $27,000 more than $ZERO???

The REAL POINT OF THE STORY IS.......BUY INEXPENSIVE TERM..NOT PRIMERICA TERM. YOU'LL HAVE MORE OF A DIFFERENCE TO INVEST.

(p.s- I got my rates from Compuserve, a company that tracks the term life rates of ALL carriers and updates them every 2 weeks.)

(double p.s- I can sell Legg-Mason funds too as can any other financial adviser)

Tungsten- I sell more term life every week than the average primerican sells in his career before he drops out. I have software that tracks the rates of ALL term providers (including primerica) and updates them every two weeks.

I believe in term insurance. I also believe in whole life in some situations, not many, but some. So take your silly cliches on down the road
and find someone whom they fit.

p.s- the death of the cash value only salesman happened about 20 years ago. You won't find anyone who deals with families selling only cash value life anymore. Its a boogeyman from the past that primerica pretends is real so they can brainwash you. About the only place they still prosper in is the small burial policy market for senior citizens. Tell your primerica masters to update the propaganda they feed you.

Thank God for stu well done. Wait not a CULT; I mean thank the universe for stu Finally a complaint about the after midnight crowd crying over the company they never joined. Please soak in your current unwanted position and stay off the net. What could primerica cost you, $199 for a state license, some time at night, better understanding of money? No they took my time and my $199. No you lost your time,and money when you skipped the state class, or whatever your crying about, lets all sit back and take some responsibility for our actions, go to work and get off the net, OK.

Good Job Stu.

Leroy states that a 45 year old healthy woman can get a 20 year policy from Primerica for $577 a year. I don't know where he is getting his information from but the correct quote is $497 a year, resulting in a difference of $85 a year. Invested in a mutual fund along with the full $582 a year once the 20 years is up and the result could be $44,389 after 30 years (this is based on past performance of one of Smith Barney's signature mutual funds. If this was in a Roth IRA this would be tax free. I'm no mathmetician but I'm pretty sure that 44k is more than 17k. And that's assuming that the return of premium policy (which can be a HUGE scam) has premiums that stay the same. I know Leroy may say they stay the same, but he has already been caught in one lie so who knows if he is telling the truth. Many times the premiums go up 10 years into the policy. To make matters worse, if you want to bail at that point you only get a small percentage (perhaps 10% if your lucky) of the premiums back. In order to get all 100% of the premiums back you have to keep the policy for the full 30 years.

Return of Premium, on its face, sounds nice. Yet in the details you will see that it is basically nothing more than typical trash value life insurance.

Last time I checked, Legg Mason & Smith Barney were two of the most powerful financial institutions in the world. With Legg Mason being the 4th Largest. Since your education in the financial industry is so vast I assume you realize the fees and loads in the funds are used to pay what's called sales staff ans fund managers. The manager would be the fellow that watches your money. Fund managers such as Richie Freeman, who was nominated by Morningstar (an independent company that rates stocks and mutual funds) as Mutual Fund Manager of The Year for 2001 & 2003. Richie would be part of the "canned advice". He manages a fund which would elephant stomp any no load fund that your canned presentation peddles. I'm sure you agree, that is if YOU are not a half-baked high school drop out, and from the sound financial advice you gave on no-load funds I must question that.

From the term SMART that you threw out, I have to ask have we met before? Did you join and sit at home, watch television and refuse to make that one call and say to yourself this just isn't for me, I'll just hit the net and write some stuff about Primerica. Not having any understanding of the company or products. But hey, whatever hepls you sleep at night.

P.S. The sky is green on this site but blue outside it.

and the average crimerican isnt a half baked high school dropout pretending to be a financial advisor with a canned one size fits all sales pitch peddling overpriced term insurance, grossly overpriced not so smart loans and loaded mutual funds.
what color is the sky in your world?

The easter bunny is real, The main dish for Thanksgiving is cupcakes, The kennedys did not have an affair, Superman never saved any one, Clint Eastwood wanted the main role for Broke Back Mountain but they would not provide pink cowboy boots. You really do get your investment from a whole life policy without a rider, and the agent who wrote the last rebuttal truly owns whole life on his family. Oh my God I hope someone checks this before it was launched oops I mean the universe there goes that "cult" thing again. I just want you all to know it is worms and dirt for me. Are all the statements written on the site true or can anyone write what ever they want on the internet. Can you handle the truth, Primerica has the highest pay out ratio in the entire nation!!!!! Last time I checked life insurance was not about investing, it is about providing the family with a check when there is a death. If you want a better rate of return go to the market. If you like funny banking get involved with a whole life policy.

Thats fine...however....BUY INEXPENSIVE TERM!!!!!
Primerica is expensive for men. For women its ridiculously expensive. In fact, a woman can buy a cash value policy for virtually the same premium she'd have to pay primerica for a term policy. It makes the entire "buy term invest the difference" concept moot.

For example, a healthy 45 year old non-smoking woman could buy $250,000 of primerica term for $577 a year, or she could buy THIRTY YEAR RETURN OF PREMIUM TERM from an A+ rated company for for $582. With the latter at the end of the 30 years she would recieve a refund of $17,560 tax free. Why would anyone pay $577 for 20 year straight term when for $5 a year more they can have 10 more years of coverage and then get their money back? What rate of interest would you have to make to turn $5 a year into $17,560 tax free and after investement expenses?

Primerica term insurance is expensive. Primerica loans are abominably expensive.

Thats fine...however....BUY INEXPENSIVE TERM!!!!!
Primerica is expensive for men. For women its ridiculously expensive. In fact, a woman can buy a cash value policy for virtually the same premium she'd have to pay primerica for a term policy. It makes the entire "buy term invest the difference" concept moot.

For example, a healthy 45 year old non-smoking woman could buy $250,000 of primerica term for $577 a year, or she could buy THIRTY YEAR RETURN OF PREMIUM TERM from an A+ rated company for for $582. With the latter at the end of the 30 years she would recieve a refund of $17,560 tax free. Why would anyone pay $577 for 20 year straight term when for $5 a year more they can have 10 more years of coverage and then get their money back? What rate of interest would you have to make to turn $5 a year into $17,560 tax free and after investement expenses?

Primerica term insurance is expensive. Primerica loans are abominably expensive.

Thats fine...however....BUY INEXPENSIVE TERM!!!!!
Primerica is expensive for men. For women its ridiculously expensive. In fact, a woman can buy a cash value policy for virtually the same premium she'd have to pay primerica for a term policy. It makes the entire "buy term invest the difference" concept moot.

For example, a healthy 45 year old non-smoking woman could buy $250,000 of primerica term for $577 a year, or she could buy THIRTY YEAR RETURN OF PREMIUM TERM from an A+ rated company for for $582. With the latter at the end of the 30 years she would recieve a refund of $17,560 tax free. Why would anyone pay $577 for 20 year straight term when for $5 a year more they can have 10 more years of coverage and then get their money back? What rate of interest would you have to make to turn $5 a year into $17,560 tax free and after investement expenses?

Primerica term insurance is expensive. Primerica loans are abominably expensive.

Thats fine...however....BUY INEXPENSIVE TERM!!!!!
Primerica is expensive for men. For women its ridiculously expensive. In fact, a woman can buy a cash value policy for virtually the same premium she'd have to pay primerica for a term policy. It makes the entire "buy term invest the difference" concept moot.

For example, a healthy 45 year old non-smoking woman could buy $250,000 of primerica term for $577 a year, or she could buy THIRTY YEAR RETURN OF PREMIUM TERM from an A+ rated company for for $582. With the latter at the end of the 30 years she would recieve a refund of $17,560 tax free. Why would anyone pay $577 for 20 year straight term when for $5 a year more they can have 10 more years of coverage and then get their money back? What rate of interest would you have to make to turn $5 a year into $17,560 tax free and after investement expenses?

Primerica term insurance is expensive. Primerica loans are abominably expensive.