• Report: #80757

Complaint Review: Procerin, Aka Procerin.com, Aka Speedwinds Nutrition Inc.

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  • Submitted: Tue, February 17, 2004
  • Updated: Sun, July 08, 2007

  • Reported By:Cincinnati Ohio
Procerin, Aka Procerin.com, Aka Speedwinds Nutrition Inc.
818 Sw 3rd Ave, Suite # 220 Portland, Oregon U.S.A.

Procerin - Procerin.com - Speedwinds Nutrition no company phone number refunds a big hassle brought in bbb Portland Oregon

*Consumer Suggestion: It did not work - but I had no problems with refunds - try this next time.

*Consumer Suggestion: It did not work - but I had no problems with refunds - try this next time.

*Consumer Suggestion: It did not work - but I had no problems with refunds - try this next time.

*Consumer Suggestion: It did not work - but I had no problems with refunds - try this next time.

*Consumer Comment: My Personal Experience With Procerin

*Author of original report: Big hassle for refund:COMPANY LIED IN RESPONSE TO THIS REPORT.

*UPDATE Employee: Response to Complaint

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I ordered Procerin from Procerin.com, After checking them out with the BBB. Got receipt, which I printed out. The Procerin didn't work.

Procerin/aka Speedwinds Nutrition Inc, states on website they have 'hassle free 90 day return policy'. It was a hassle and a half!

I went back to website within the 90 days. Emailed support@procerin.com to request where to send unused product. Got reply that said to return ALL 3 bottles WITH MY NAME AND ADDRESS, (which I put INSIDE the package) to 'the address listed on our website for a prompt refund of your purchase price'. THERE IS NO PHONE NUMBER FOR PROCERIN, AKA SPEEDWINDS NUTRITION. They have a fax number listed for ordering, that is ALL.
Uh-huh.

So I go back to website, get the address. Sent via USPS express mail with online tracking. They got pkg next day and had to sign for it.

I tracked pkg, saw it was received and signed for, and then fired off another email to support@procerin.com, asking apx. when could I expect refund of purchase price?
THEY TOUT WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 48 HRS. LIE, LIE, LIE.
No reply.

Sent again 2 days later. No reply. Faxed letter using their fax number for ordering, asking for response, and sent all information including receipt from post office, and page I printed out of receipt verification from USPS.
No reply.

Contacted online BBB in Portland Oregon, filed complaint Feb. 10. Then fired off last email to support@procerin.com letting them know I filed complaint with their local BBB.
FEB. 11, THEY REFUNDED MY MONEY TO MY ACCOUNT.

DID NOT BOTHER TO NOTIFY ME IT HAD BEEN DONE. IF I HAD NOT CHECKED ONLINE BANKING, I WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN FOR A MONTH.

So, I contacted BBB in Oregon and let them know I was refunded my money.

BUT I am certain if I had not gone to the BBB, I would not have gotten my refund.
BUYER BEWARE!

THERESA
CHICAGO, Illinois
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/17/2004 07:09 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Procerin-Aka-Procerincom-Aka-Speedwinds-Nutrition-Inc/Portland-Oregon-97204-2405/Procerin-Procerincom-Speedwinds-Nutrition-no-company-phone-number-refunds-a-big-hassl-80757. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Suggestion

It did not work - but I had no problems with refunds - try this next time.

AUTHOR: Zachary - (U.S.A.)

I went through the first set of procerin without any changes; in fact, it seemed as if i lost more hair while using it. anyways, so i went through the first 3months of procerin, ordered another set wanting to give it 6months to see what would happen. well nothing happened after that, either, but they automatically charged my creditcard $52 for another 3months and shipped me a refill without my requesting it. There is an option for auto-refills, but I am 99% certain that I did not elect for it as I am a cautious consumer.

My resolution to this was pretty simple. I went to the website, got their 800# for ORDERS and called it. I talked to a lady and told her my situation and that I wanted to return the refill and receive a refund. She was supposed to send me out an email confirmation, but I didn't receive it. I called back 24hours later and repeated the same thing (and apprised them of my previous call) but provided an alternate email address. This time it not only got through, but i received a few follow-up emails from the company at both email addresses to confirm my return. I taped up the box they shipped it in, marked RETURN/REFUSE SHIPMENT(as they suggested), and it made its way back to the company. They took a few weeks to process it, but my creditcard has been credited for the full amount. As much as I wish this product would have worked for me and slowed my hair loss, it simply did not.

My suggestion for consumers are to not be ignorant and pigheaded. I've found over the years that if you act calm, cool, and collected, you will get treated fairly and properly 99% of the time.There's always going to be scams out there, but if you take your time, do some research and reading, and be nice to the people on the phone - the situation will work out. It seems as if people who get belligerent and disrespectful towards companies, and as if the person on the phone is personally responsible for their problem, they are the ones who get jerked around and end up filing complains.

As if the customer service rep made you order the product and is at fault for not immediately refunding the money. Businesses are all about processing, checking, verifying, etc, before refunding money. You might not have gotten your refund because of several other factors that you left out to make your story more convenient and paint a negative picture of the company. That's one common thread I've found with many of the reports on here: customers never post their mistakes, where they might be wrong, their personal faults, or how rude they can be on the phone. Rather, they portray themselves as innocent victims who were taken advantage of, and they are airing their frustrations on here while ignoring many of the facts of the situation.

FYI: I have gone through many returns over the years, and have always found companies willing to work with me. My only complaint is that I feel as if I shouldn't be responsible for covering shipping costs for _their_ defective products.
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#2 Consumer Suggestion

It did not work - but I had no problems with refunds - try this next time.

AUTHOR: Zachary - (U.S.A.)

I went through the first set of procerin without any changes; in fact, it seemed as if i lost more hair while using it. anyways, so i went through the first 3months of procerin, ordered another set wanting to give it 6months to see what would happen. well nothing happened after that, either, but they automatically charged my creditcard $52 for another 3months and shipped me a refill without my requesting it. There is an option for auto-refills, but I am 99% certain that I did not elect for it as I am a cautious consumer.

My resolution to this was pretty simple. I went to the website, got their 800# for ORDERS and called it. I talked to a lady and told her my situation and that I wanted to return the refill and receive a refund. She was supposed to send me out an email confirmation, but I didn't receive it. I called back 24hours later and repeated the same thing (and apprised them of my previous call) but provided an alternate email address. This time it not only got through, but i received a few follow-up emails from the company at both email addresses to confirm my return. I taped up the box they shipped it in, marked RETURN/REFUSE SHIPMENT(as they suggested), and it made its way back to the company. They took a few weeks to process it, but my creditcard has been credited for the full amount. As much as I wish this product would have worked for me and slowed my hair loss, it simply did not.

My suggestion for consumers are to not be ignorant and pigheaded. I've found over the years that if you act calm, cool, and collected, you will get treated fairly and properly 99% of the time.There's always going to be scams out there, but if you take your time, do some research and reading, and be nice to the people on the phone - the situation will work out. It seems as if people who get belligerent and disrespectful towards companies, and as if the person on the phone is personally responsible for their problem, they are the ones who get jerked around and end up filing complains.

As if the customer service rep made you order the product and is at fault for not immediately refunding the money. Businesses are all about processing, checking, verifying, etc, before refunding money. You might not have gotten your refund because of several other factors that you left out to make your story more convenient and paint a negative picture of the company. That's one common thread I've found with many of the reports on here: customers never post their mistakes, where they might be wrong, their personal faults, or how rude they can be on the phone. Rather, they portray themselves as innocent victims who were taken advantage of, and they are airing their frustrations on here while ignoring many of the facts of the situation.

FYI: I have gone through many returns over the years, and have always found companies willing to work with me. My only complaint is that I feel as if I shouldn't be responsible for covering shipping costs for _their_ defective products.
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

It did not work - but I had no problems with refunds - try this next time.

AUTHOR: Zachary - (U.S.A.)

I went through the first set of procerin without any changes; in fact, it seemed as if i lost more hair while using it. anyways, so i went through the first 3months of procerin, ordered another set wanting to give it 6months to see what would happen. well nothing happened after that, either, but they automatically charged my creditcard $52 for another 3months and shipped me a refill without my requesting it. There is an option for auto-refills, but I am 99% certain that I did not elect for it as I am a cautious consumer.

My resolution to this was pretty simple. I went to the website, got their 800# for ORDERS and called it. I talked to a lady and told her my situation and that I wanted to return the refill and receive a refund. She was supposed to send me out an email confirmation, but I didn't receive it. I called back 24hours later and repeated the same thing (and apprised them of my previous call) but provided an alternate email address. This time it not only got through, but i received a few follow-up emails from the company at both email addresses to confirm my return. I taped up the box they shipped it in, marked RETURN/REFUSE SHIPMENT(as they suggested), and it made its way back to the company. They took a few weeks to process it, but my creditcard has been credited for the full amount. As much as I wish this product would have worked for me and slowed my hair loss, it simply did not.

My suggestion for consumers are to not be ignorant and pigheaded. I've found over the years that if you act calm, cool, and collected, you will get treated fairly and properly 99% of the time.There's always going to be scams out there, but if you take your time, do some research and reading, and be nice to the people on the phone - the situation will work out. It seems as if people who get belligerent and disrespectful towards companies, and as if the person on the phone is personally responsible for their problem, they are the ones who get jerked around and end up filing complains.

As if the customer service rep made you order the product and is at fault for not immediately refunding the money. Businesses are all about processing, checking, verifying, etc, before refunding money. You might not have gotten your refund because of several other factors that you left out to make your story more convenient and paint a negative picture of the company. That's one common thread I've found with many of the reports on here: customers never post their mistakes, where they might be wrong, their personal faults, or how rude they can be on the phone. Rather, they portray themselves as innocent victims who were taken advantage of, and they are airing their frustrations on here while ignoring many of the facts of the situation.

FYI: I have gone through many returns over the years, and have always found companies willing to work with me. My only complaint is that I feel as if I shouldn't be responsible for covering shipping costs for _their_ defective products.
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#4 Consumer Suggestion

It did not work - but I had no problems with refunds - try this next time.

AUTHOR: Zachary - (U.S.A.)

I went through the first set of procerin without any changes; in fact, it seemed as if i lost more hair while using it. anyways, so i went through the first 3months of procerin, ordered another set wanting to give it 6months to see what would happen. well nothing happened after that, either, but they automatically charged my creditcard $52 for another 3months and shipped me a refill without my requesting it. There is an option for auto-refills, but I am 99% certain that I did not elect for it as I am a cautious consumer.

My resolution to this was pretty simple. I went to the website, got their 800# for ORDERS and called it. I talked to a lady and told her my situation and that I wanted to return the refill and receive a refund. She was supposed to send me out an email confirmation, but I didn't receive it. I called back 24hours later and repeated the same thing (and apprised them of my previous call) but provided an alternate email address. This time it not only got through, but i received a few follow-up emails from the company at both email addresses to confirm my return. I taped up the box they shipped it in, marked RETURN/REFUSE SHIPMENT(as they suggested), and it made its way back to the company. They took a few weeks to process it, but my creditcard has been credited for the full amount. As much as I wish this product would have worked for me and slowed my hair loss, it simply did not.

My suggestion for consumers are to not be ignorant and pigheaded. I've found over the years that if you act calm, cool, and collected, you will get treated fairly and properly 99% of the time.There's always going to be scams out there, but if you take your time, do some research and reading, and be nice to the people on the phone - the situation will work out. It seems as if people who get belligerent and disrespectful towards companies, and as if the person on the phone is personally responsible for their problem, they are the ones who get jerked around and end up filing complains.

As if the customer service rep made you order the product and is at fault for not immediately refunding the money. Businesses are all about processing, checking, verifying, etc, before refunding money. You might not have gotten your refund because of several other factors that you left out to make your story more convenient and paint a negative picture of the company. That's one common thread I've found with many of the reports on here: customers never post their mistakes, where they might be wrong, their personal faults, or how rude they can be on the phone. Rather, they portray themselves as innocent victims who were taken advantage of, and they are airing their frustrations on here while ignoring many of the facts of the situation.

FYI: I have gone through many returns over the years, and have always found companies willing to work with me. My only complaint is that I feel as if I shouldn't be responsible for covering shipping costs for _their_ defective products.
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#5 Consumer Comment

My Personal Experience With Procerin

AUTHOR: Scott - (U.S.A.)

I ordered a 1-Month supply of Procerin from Procerin.com. Two days later I read this posting and heard of the horrible time Theresa had with this Company. My first thought was "what have I gotten myself into?".

First thing the next morning I called their customer service line to cancel my order. I spoke to Aaron, who told me that he would contact corporate to cancel my order, but that it may be too late... it was, my order had already been processed.

I sent an email letting them know that I did not wish to use their product, and the next day I received a reply with instructions on how to return my order. About a week later when the order arrived, I took it down to the post office (unopened) and send it back via Certified Mail w/ return receipt.

Another week went by, and I received my return receipt with an associates signature, so I knew my package had made it back. It wasn't but a couple more days before I received an email notification that my order had been received back at their office and that a credit of 49.99 was on it's way back to my credit card. A couple of days later I received the credit on my statement.

I sympethize with Theresa, and thank her (and RipOffReport.com) for having a listing such as this for people like me to read. I don't know what kind of mess I would have gotten myself into without it. I am only thankful that my experience was not as horrible as others.

Now, instead of using Procerin, or Avacor, or some of those other fly-by-night products that don't work, I have begun taking Saw Palmetto vitamins (Saw Palmetto is about the only thing in Procerin that could possibly even help male pattern baldness).

I also set an appointment with a dermatologist to discuss Propecia, one of the two FDA approved hair loss treatments. At a cost of about $57 a month, it is not that much more expensive than Procerin, but they (unlike Procerin) have lots of Clinical studies and data that they are ready and willing to show me so that I can make in informed decision.

I only am posting my experience so that others may have a quick and painless one like I did. If you do wish to use Procerin, that is up to you. But if not, don't even open your shipment. Send it directly back to the company. I hope nobody else has to go through what Theresa did.

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#6 Author of original report

Big hassle for refund:COMPANY LIED IN RESPONSE TO THIS REPORT.

AUTHOR: Laura - (U.S.A.)

Bottom line, "CJ"'s response to my report on Procerin is a joke. A paltry attempt to make himself and Procerin look good, by making me look stupid. "CJ"'s rebuttal is FALSE, MISLEADING AND UNTRUE AND IT WOULD BE MY PLEASURE TO PROVIDE ALL DOCUMENTS!

" CJ" got it wrong. By the way, "CJ" just who are you and what is your position with Procerin? In his response 11/04, to my complaint, he states (paraphrased) "she bought Procerin for herself and it is clearly for men". I BOUGHT IT FOR MY HUSBAND AND I MADE THAT CLEAR TO HIM. He either had a convenient case of amnesia or decided since he had no defense he'd better tell a lie. Easier to make the customer look like a fool to redirect attention from an otherwise un-defendable claim.
Second, he did not notify me of refund, nothing was ever told to me by the company at all after "CJ" emailed the return to information I requested. AFTER CONTINUALLY NO RESPONSE TO MY EMAILS and a HUGE FAX to Procerin REGARDING STATUS OF REFUND AND USPS DOCUMENTATION THAT THE RETURN PRODUCTS WERE RECEIVED only THEN did I contact the BBB in Oregon and they contacted Procerin, THEN and only then did I get a refund. AND I found the refund in my online bank statement. "CJ" nor the company EVER BOTHERED to tell me I was getting one, it was being processed, etc. I was not complaining of getting a refund in my rip off report, as "CJ" states. I was complaining because the company would not communicate with me regarding it, I was kept totally in the dark, I had to find it out for myself. A VERY VALID COMPLAINT. Communication in business is essential to keeping a customer satisfied. Why Procerin and "CJ" chose not to inform me of my refund, (and I take this stance due to "CJ"'s response) is to attempt to cover the fact that it took the BBB to get a refund process going in the first place. CJ knew from the very thorough documentation I provided first to him then to the BBB, that if he notified me of a refund in process I would have that notification with the time and date stamp through my ISP, just as I had for every sentence of communication with this company. And it would prove the BBB had to get involved before he would respond to my repeated requests. To not confront THAT situation, he chose to keep me in the dark instead.
I sent all documentation of my experience with Procerin in email both to the BBB and to "CJ" at Procerin. I even have FAX documentation that I sent literally 15 pages to Procerin's toll free FAX ordering line to try to get this refund situation resolved. I sent all the documentation via fax thinking SOMEONE would see it and respond back to me. No dice, no response AT ALL. I HAD PRINTED OUT EACH AND EVERY EMAIL TO AND FROM PROCERIN REGARDING THIS SITUATION, I SCANNED THE PAGES TO COMPUTER, AND AM SO GLAD I DID. They not only proved through TIME AND DATE STAMPS EACH AND EVERY STEP I TOOK TO TRY TO WORK WITH AND GET INFORMATION REGARDING MY REFUND FROM THIS COMPANY, REPEATEDLY.....These documents ALSO definitely proved # 1 that my initial problems contacting the company were true and verifiable, as there was NO NUMBER FOR THE BUSINESS PROVIDED EXCEPT A FAX NUMBER. WHEN INTELLIUS WAS CONTRACTED BY ME TO FIND OUT CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THIS COMPANY, THERE WAS ONLY ONE PHONE NUMBER I HAD OTHER THAN THE FAX TOLL FREE ONE...REGISTERED TO CJ THE EMPLOYEE NOT PROCERIN THE COMPANY. THE NUMBER WAS ON MY BANK STATEMENT AS THE PHONE NUMBER OF THE COMPANY WHO PUT THROUGH THE PAYMENT, WHICH WAS NOT THE NUMBER FOR A BUSINESS. INTELLIUS STATES THE NUMBER WAS FOR "CJ" ONLY. Procerin was not listed with this number, it was a PERSON who had the number, and a PERSON who submitted my credit card payment to my bank, not Procerin, or Speedwinds. "CJ" somehow never mentions this puzzling fact. If Procerin has a toll free number on the website now, well, good for CJ, it's about time.
This complaint was due to three things. FIRST: No response to my emails to Procerin regarding the USPS verificaton of the Procerin return. SECOND: No response to daily email from me asking for information on the refund process now that the Procerin was returned to the company. INFORMATION THAT WAS NEVER GIVEN. THIRD: No response from Procerin OR "cj" of receipt of all documents pertaining to the transaction that were scanned and sent by email and fax to Procerin, that were ONLY THEN AS A LAST RESORT sent to the BBB in Oregon to prove all of my claims, not only via email, but faxed to the BBB as well, AND I mailed a hard copy to the BBB in Oregon as well. I KEPT "CJ" TOTALLY IN THE LOOP AS TO EVERY SINGLE STEP I HAD TO TAKE. "CJ" chose not to respond.
Once the BBB was involved the refund was processed without Procerin or "CJ" bothering to informe me that this was going to be, or was in the process of, or was, in fact done. I ONLY found out about the refund due to checking my bank statement.
Immediately upon seeing the refund, I contacted the BBB in Oregon and informed them the refund had been given. When "CJ" cried "false complaint", I obliged him by sending every single email to and from the company proving my case, again, to him, which "CJ"'s only reply was "WE CONSIDER THIS MATTER CLOSED". Yep, there was nothing more good 'ole CJ could say, LOL.
Bottom line, "CJ"'s response to my report on Procerin is a joke. A paltry attempt to make himself and Procerin look good, by making me look stupid. I STRONGLY URGE ALL WHO CONSIDER ORDERING FROM THIS COMPANY TO DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. ALL SENT AND RECEIVED EMAILS AND ALL ORDER CONFIRMATION AND INFORMATION TO AND FROM THIS COMPANY SHOULD THEN BE PRINTED OUT SO THEY ARE TIME AND DATE STAMPED. RETURNS SHOULD BE SENT WITH TRACKING AND DELIVERY CONFIRMATION. CHECK ON THE STATUS OF YOUR RETURN SHIPMENT. ONCE IT IS SHOWN AS RECEIVED BY PROCERIN, PRINT OUT THAT DOCUMENT AS WELL. HANG ON TO EVERYTHING. Procerin, and "CJ" MAY well have changed their policy of not caring enough about the customer or their customer service to keep the customer informed. They MAY now respond to customer emails requesting information regarding their return policy, the time it takes to process returns, the status of returns, and when their customers can expect reimbursement. They MAY well have a number listed on the website NOW, where you can contact a person for customer service.
As for "CJ" and his response, nice try buddy. You can leave it alone, or I can scan every document in my Procerin file to Rip Off report and show EVERYONE what your rebuttal is, which is FALSE, MISLEADING, AND UNTRUE. Be glad to send them to you again, too!!
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#7 UPDATE Employee

Response to Complaint

AUTHOR: CJ - (U.S.A.)

First, Procerin is for men only, it clearly states that on the website multiple times, and in our FAQ section also states that it "is unlikely to be beneficial for female hair loss", so "Theresa" should not have been ordering it for female hair loss and expecting results. Still, despite her apparent lack of understanding we refunded her money promptly upon request.

Second, Our toll-free phone # is clearly displayed on the website, as anyone can see.

Third, As Theresa confesses, her full purchase price WAS refunded. The full purchase price was refunded PRIOR to her contacting the BBB as well. Notification was done via the same method as her orginal receipt, so Theresa did receive notfication of the refund. This is the first time we have heard of a customer complaining that they WERE refunded, but did not receive a letter explaining it.

We take pride in our customer service, and feel that everything was done appropriately in this situation. Despite Theresa's ordering the wrong product for her hair loss, we refunded her money in full, and stand behind our 90 Day Guarantee.
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