• Report: #930704

Complaint Review: Pugz Brand

  • Submitted: Tue, August 21, 2012
  • Updated: Mon, October 01, 2012

  • Reported By: RJ — North Platte Nebraska USA
Pugz Brand
920 Clifton Blvd. Toledo, Ohio United States of America

Pugz Brand Refuses to replace lost shipment or to issue partial refund. Toledo, Ohio

*Author of original report: Final Comment

*General Comment: Received Excellent Service from Pugz Brand

*General Comment: Locations, Mailings, & Attitudes - Oh My!

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: locations

*General Comment: In support of Ms. Peters

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Bad Company? BBB Doesn't think so

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Woman?

*Author of original report: Update on Pugzbrand report

*Consumer Comment: Customer since 2006

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Consumer Failed To Read Policy

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I have a rescue shelter and we spend about $250 a month on food for more than 40 animals. You'd think that a fledgling company would be happy to acquire a customer that spends that much. But not Pugzbrand. They don't know what "customer support" means. When they lost about 2/3 of our order this summer, they simply turned up their noses and blamed me. No offer to help find it, no offer to replace it, no offer for a partial refund. Normal companies would consider large orders worth the effort to keep a customer.

By now they certainly have spent the nearly $200 I sent them in June and all we got was 21 lbs of food. As far as they are concerned, that's the end of the story. So sad, too bad. They have lost a potential regular customer that places large orders. And now I need to show the world what kind of a company they really are to prevent someone else from getting taken.

Anyone who would scam a charity shelter for innocent animals doesn't deserve any respect or consideration.

It's interesting that they made sure to have a sneaky escape clause in their terms of service (in the "fine print") to prevent any liability. Makes one wonder if they planned on taking advantage whenever a larger order comes in.

When they suggested that I solicit donations of food from the larger petfood companies, I had to explain that we can't do that. That requires being a non-profit company. We are not a non-profit because our lawyer actually stole all our money a few years ago and we have never fully recovered from the financial loss. And now we have another financial loss to deal with, thanks to Pugzbrand.

If we didn't still have all the animals here, I would simply quit and chalk it all up to...what...bad luck? Jerks? No one cares? But I can't let the innocent animals starve because humans don't care. So we just keep on struggling to make ends meet. It's sad that no one cares.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 08/21/2012 11:36 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Pugz-Brand/Toledo-Ohio-43607/Pugz-Brand-Refuses-to-replace-lost-shipment-or-to-issue-partial-refund-Toledo-Ohio-930704. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
2Author 4Consumer 4Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Author of original report

Final Comment

AUTHOR: Dr. Bert - (USA)

Since when did PB become so interested in my "many addresses?" The only one they needed to know was the ship-to address. And guess what? I'm not required to live there. It doesn't even need to be my property. It can be anyone who agrees to accept and hold the merchandise until I pick it  up. And since PB is not in charge of my life, I can have as many mailing addresses as I want. It's just none of their business.

Even ROR recommends using an "alternate" address if someone fears retribution.  Clearly, their need to comment on something irrelevant to the issue is just another ploy to discredit and defame me and to make themselves appear as the injured party.

Let's do a little math: I bought 75 lbs of food. They sent me 24 lbs. Then they claimed to have sent 48 lbs more. That adds up to 72 lbs. So, in addition to not even trying to help a customer (and I quote: "Once it's out the door, it's not our problem."), they shorted me by 3 lbs. And *they* feel slighted?

Any business that has the attitude that something is not their problem actually has a problem. Any good marketing professional knows that building customer relationship management policies ensures future growth and success of their business. Obviously, PB is not interested in sustainable business success.
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#2 General Comment

Received Excellent Service from Pugz Brand

AUTHOR: Pugs U Gotta Save - (United States of America)

I operate a pug dog rescue in Virginia and have been very happy with the service and product received so far from Pugz Brand. In fact I recently contacted this company to order more of their wonderful dog treats. The first order was sent without delays last year and the treats were big hits at our events. So this year I contacted them for more product and have been treated courteously and very professionally. I hope to continue a good working relationship with them for years to come.



Charlene Moss

Pugs U Gotta Save, Inc.

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#3 General Comment

Locations, Mailings, & Attitudes - Oh My!

AUTHOR: sumtyms - (United States of America)

There are just a few things I want to address but they are not meant to make more issues for either side.  However, after reading all of the issues from both sides, I can't help but comment.

First of all, I also know Dr Peters.  I have found her information to be most valuable with regards to caring for animals.  I know she has saved me many times with questions I have had.   She really does strive to help everyone she knows the best she can.

As far as addresses go, it is not uncommon to have a PO Box # located in one city, while your actual, physical, 911 address is of another.  Especially when you live in a rural area.  Many post offices are closing and consolidating these days (not saying that is the case here) but you might find it useful in the future to realize this could be the case.  I'm sure as this is a small area that the post offices do, in fact, know her.  It is possible, however, that if you contacted someone there that did not actually have this particular conversation with her, it could simply be because you did not contact the correct town.  Perhaps you contacted the town associated with the PO Box and not the 911 address or vice versa?  Just a thought, and is not worthy of a reply.  It does seem like an awful lot of work from a company to have gone so far as to do that though, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

Now, regarding all these accusations of slander, etc., isn't PugzBrand doing the same thing??  You're accusing her of not caring for her animals or some such nonsense, accusing her of having several addresses (which has been established that she does not), and calling to scream at someone over the phone when you are the owner or employee of the business is not exactly conducting yourself in a professional manner.  It doesn't matter who was right or wrong; that is not how you conduct yourself as a business.

In regards to the phone call from the company, it would have been a good idea for the company to find out what the phone number was that called Dr Peters so that you know who it was that was not conducting themselves professionally.  Then you could advise them of the proper way to handle a situation like this.  If he/she did not identify himself/herself, then you cannot be upset if someone mistook a screaming voice for a woman's if it was actually a man's.   Voice gender can be easily mistaken.  I don't believe that was Dr Peter's point though - the point was the screaming and intimidating nonsense that took place, and that is what should be dealt with - not whether it was actually a female or male.  Remember, actions like that from a company can also be construed as slander, harrassment, etc. 

As far as all this mailing business goes, well, perhaps she should have made sure she had guarantee tracking or insurance or something.  On the other hand, it would probably be most helpful in the future for this company to make sure they are provided with a tracking number, regardless of whether or not the consumer asks for it.  It simply protects everyone all the way around.  And, it really is in the best interest of the business for future development to provide the consumer with a solution - whether it's a replacement, refund, etc.  I do not claim to know what your current posted policies are at the moment and it's of no interest to me at the moment, I'm just saying in an instance like this it would have been best to have simply provided a solution, and will help keep your A rating with the BBB.

For the record, I did get a small sample from her of this cat food.  It's nice there is a company out there making organic but none of my cats would eat it.  Some of the pieces were quite large and even though I tried to slowly integrate it into their diet they would have none of it.  That doesn't mean it doesn't work well for some people's animals or that it's a bad product.  That was simply our personal experience with it.

I think at this point in time it would be best if both sides let this go.  It is quite obvious everyone is going to have to agreet to disagree.  There really isn't any more that can be done, and I don't believe it's in good health for anyone involved. 

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#4 REBUTTAL Owner of company

locations

AUTHOR: Pugzbrand - (United States of America)

The order had one address from Ms. Peters, was told to ship to another, one address was a PO Box, and now the city listed on here is different than the others. Talk about not having different addresses.

Also our website says WHEN AVAILABLE. Flat rate mail does NOT have tracking. And we are not harrasing Ms Petrs. And its far from it. She has harrased us and defermationand slander is illegal.

Please read our TOSyou will see it says WHEN available .

Again A rating with the BBB.
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#5 General Comment

In support of Ms. Peters

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (United States of America)

Am absolutely appalled that your company has concocted vicious lies about Ms. Peters, concerning the non-delivery of her pet food order!!!  Have been a good friend of Ms. Peters for 25 years and can vouch for her good character and moral values!!

In my estimation, all of these grade school antics your company is representing over this matter, is beneath professionalism!!  Is this the way you treat ALL of your customers who have problems with their orders?

Ms. Peters had a large order totaling over $150.  According to your Terms and Conditions, she should have AUTOMATICALLY received delivery tracking and insurance on her order!  Since your products are made to order (and cancelling the order is a major headache for both parties), why dont you include tracking numbers and insurance on ALL ORDERS?!?!!?!?  Spending a little more on these extra postal options would TOTALLY alleviate such issues, as Ms. Peters is contending with at this time!!  If I ran a company, especially that had custom orders, I would spend a little extra on postage to keep track of deliveries, in case of lost shipments!!!  That should be a GIVEN with ANY COMPANY!!  Most companies that I deal with have tracking numbers etc. without asking for them!!!  

You state that Ms. Peters had multiple homes in Nebraska.  WHERE IN THE WORLD did you come up with that rubbish!!!!  As she stated, the only home she has is a small farm in the country.  You also stated that she didnt talk to her local post office and they dont know anything about the matter.  Yes, she did speak with them.  Of course, they know her, as its a rural community, in which most people do know each other

One comment you made that infuriates me, is that you emphatically stated that your company has quote, unquote NEVER had a female employee!  To me this sounds like you look down on females and wouldnt have any work for you! 

Why doesnt your company quit harassing Ms. Peters on this matter, and just do the right and civil thing: REPLACE HER LOST ORDER!  You must have a lot of time to sit around and make up lies etc.  Ive never seen the like!!  Word of mouth goes a long way, and I for one will not do any business with your company!!  Especially if thered be a problem with the order, Id probably end up being harassed like Ms. Peters!!
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#6 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Bad Company? BBB Doesn't think so

AUTHOR: Pugzbrand - (United States of America)

If Pugz Brand was such a bad company, why do we have an "A" Rating with the BBB.

http://www.bbb.org/toledo/business-reviews/pet-supplies-and-foods-retail/pugz-brand-in-toledo-oh-90091686
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#7 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Woman?

AUTHOR: Pugzbrand - (United States of America)

First Pugz Brand does not nor has ever employed a female.  I'm not sure where Ms. Peters gathers that information, but again, it is NOT true.  We are run by two males and always have been!  NEVER a female.

Second, her own local post office stated they never spoke to her.  The nice Postal Inspector Relief in Gurley NE, told us on the phone that they NEVER spoke to her and didn't know who she was.  Also Ms. Peters still does not realize that she herself even stated that she should just kill the animals.  She was offered a refund, minus the cancelation fee.  But she never stated that she wanted that.  She was told it was her order (SHIPPING IS NEVER INCLUDED IN THE ORDER AMOUNT) minus 50% then minus what was sent to her.    Instead she loves defaming us and our products while she sits in one of her many homes.  Every thing that we got from her has a different city in NE listed on it.  So which address did you send the food to?  Go check all of them and see if they are there.

Ms. Peters also was offered tracking services if she decided to take 2 minutes and actually read our Terms of Service. She could have had the tracking service if she would have asked, but she failed to do that, which is the whole point.  She fails to admit she never read the Terms of Service which is her own fault.  Our Terms of Service also does not state that we offer it, it says when available, we do.  It is not always available, thus in using Flate Rate Shipping Services via the USPS, Tracking is NOT offered. Only Delivery Confirmation is.

And simple math will show that from August 8th to September 8th is actually one month. So yes, that is the last we heard from her.   Again, as stated to the BBB, we have never called Ms. Peters in over a month.  Where she is obtaining this information is beyond us- the same as our female employees. 

However, posting any information regarding anyone regardless if they claim it is them or not, is still giving personal information of someone and is still subject to personal libility.    Ms. Peters fails to realize the laws of this as well. And frankly does not care.

And Board of Directors is only subject to actual board when registered with the State you do business in and with the IRS.  Failure to do either does not give you a board. 

And as far as 3rd Party, there is no 3rd party. The BBB does NOT make these judgements and will tell you that. They are not a law office nor do they have any legal power to do so.

And we never denied the package was lost. We have stated the entire time the package was lost and was not our problem.    The truth is Ms. Peters would never have been happy with anything to start off with due to her failure to read.  We have donated to several other actual legal charities and have NEVER had this problem until dealing with her.
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#8 Author of original report

Update on Pugzbrand report

AUTHOR: Dr. Bert - (USA)

At first, I thought these people were just arrogant, conniving business owners. But this latest rebuttal reveals they have a much deeper, more sinister agenda. They need to be in Hollywood writing scripts for fantasy shows. They are past masters at inventing "information." The one doing all the writing hasn't said anything truthful about me yet.

I think it's strange that she keeps bringing up the comment that some people have told me to kill the animals. Why is she harping on this? It was a very small part of an earlier conversation, and was an emotional reaction to her bullying me the first time we talked. It caught me by surprise to see a total collapse of any semblance of professionalism and made me cry. At my age (after a heart attack and mild stroke a few years ago), that happens more often than I'd like. What does it even have to do with this situation? It's quite typical for people who display certain unkind behaviors to blame someone else first, to take the focus off of them. I'm trying to stick to the facts, and they are making a big deal out of comments unrelated to the incident and inflating remarks that do not match their reality.

So, they have been in business for 6 years? Wow. I ran a business for 35 years. In those days, the customer meant more. If something didn't work out, we fixed it, even if the customer wasn't always right... The mantra in those days was, "The customer is always right." If you wanted to grow your business, you just did it that way. And it worked out 99% of the time. Do they have an advertising budget? If they spend anything on marketing, they can afford to spend a few bucks on replacing, even partially, an order to keep a customer happy.

In fact, I could have been a regular customer that spends $2,500 to $3,000 per year on pet food. A simple (even partial) replacement would have quickly saved the customer relationship and led to a long term business arrangement. But being right is more important to these people. They can be
right all they want, and I will forever be out the $150 or so that I lost in this debacle. Robbed? Them? The fact is, I'm the one who has been robbed. They have the money I sent. I do not. Where is the robbery? They have lost NOTHING. What fraud? I very simply just want the food I bought and expected to be feeding the animals. If there is fraud, it is at their end, not mine. I do not expect or would even ask for a donation from the big petfood companies. You have to have an official non-profit to qualify for grants and donations from the corporate world. It was the writer of the inaccurate reports who told me I should do that. I never said we were a registered charity. That does not mean we can't do charity work. Until our lawyer absconded with our funds, we were state-licensed and working on the non-profit paperwork. But the loss proved to be totally destructive to our mission. Everyone quit. But the animals were still here. What should I have done? I refuse to kill them, so we sold our house and moved to a dilapidated old farm. What kind of fraud is that?

As for misquoting postal policy, I did my best to find valid information. I relayed what I got from different postal officials, in good faith, in an effort to find a solution. I didn't even blame the company. I suggested the problem was with their postal carrier or local post office.

But they chose to take it personally. I am not the expert in this area, which they claim to be. In fact, the next time I need postal information, I'll call their petfood company. According to Pugzbrand, the post office knows nothing and all the offices I called have been lying to me. The post office is going to love that when I tell them they've been accused of lying.

According to their own website, Pugzbrand offers tracking options for orders over $100. I was never "offered" anything, although my order was for almost $200. They said customers must buy tracking if their order is less than $100. That is quite ambiguous, but appears to mean that tracking will be used for orders over $100 and does NOT say I have to ask for it at that level.

And now more blatant lies come out. They claim never to have contacted me in over a month? If it's possible to check the usage details on their telephone account, one would definitely notice my phone number in the list at least twice. One call was on August 8, and the most recent call was at 4:02 p.m. (mountain time) on Sept. 10, 2012 and I was subjected to a very loud, fast and furious rant by a female who sounded exactly like Ms. Decoda Estep. Since she refused to identify herself (and she says they always identify themselves), I can only assume she was trying to be sneaky.

She started out calmly enough and I expected to have an adult conversation in which things would be worked out. But she said, "Hello, RJ? I'm calling from Pugzbrand and I'd like to thank you for reporting us to the Better Business Bureau about YOUR PROBLEM!" And then it all degraded pretty quickly after that into her 5-minute (minimum) rant that I could hardly understand. I couldn't get a word in, either. So I went quiet. Then she said, "Did you hang up on me?" I replied quietly that she would hear from me again. Then she hung up.

I have a witness, if you could call him that, since neither of us could understand a word she said when the yelling accelerated. (I always use my phone on speaker-phone because my hearing isn't what it used to be either.) But I also took a picture of my caller ID display to prove the number that called me. It could be a cell phone, since no name is shown, but the number and time show very clearly. If she denies this, I will post it on my website. If, as she claims, it wasn't her, then I'm not divulging any of her personal information, right? However, I believe she did this as a sneaky tactic - using her own personal phone so she could say the company did not contact me.

I refer you also to an account of all the emails we have had. These are accurate and not edited, except to remove personally identifying information for both our protection. But if you require full headers or anything, I can provide it.

See: http://feedingthecats.blogspot.com (Here is where you can find out about our so-called Board of Directors... huh? Never said we had one. It's just another lie from Pugzbrand as they invent their own story about us.)

At this point, I do not expect anything intelligent or reasonable to happen from their end. Since I will never be satisfied with any of their irrational responses and fabricated factoids, especially now that they have proven they lie, a third party will have to make a judgment as to how this incident should be resolved. I'm tired of it. You can't reason with unreasonable people. However, there is ONE outcome that I would find acceptable at this point:  a receipt thanking me for my donation. At least I would be able to use it as a tax deduction. It can't be considered a business loss, because the company refuses to admit the shipment was lost. But they do have our money. And we do NOT have the product. This makes the expenditure a "donation."
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#9 Consumer Comment

Customer since 2006

AUTHOR: KRocks - (United States of America)

I have been a customer since Pugz Brand opened in 2006 (before they were named Pugz Brand) and watched them grow from a small company into the company they are today.  I've ordered several thousands of dollars worth of products from them over the years, from their famous Ape Biscuits, that I have shipped to family in France, to dog food and toys that I use myself as well as donate to shelters around the Country.

I know for a fact that Pugz Brand even donates their own products to shelters around the Country and their area.  I've never seen a company that gives back soo much to the animals, not to mention, the claim states they don't care about animals, well just to let them know the CEO of Pugz Brand actually owns 6 Pugs himself and they are all rescued from pounds and shelters from Michigan and Ohio.  Does this sound like someone that doesn't care about animals?  I don't think so.  The orginal person that filed the report is upset that they failed to read it sounds like.

I'll even post a picture of a happy dog that just loves his Ape Biscuits from Pugz Brand.
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#10 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Consumer Failed To Read Policy

AUTHOR: Pugzbrand - (United States of America)

Ms. Peters has failed to read our company's policy when from the get-go.  She was offered a copy of our Terms of Service via her invoice which was emailed to her via PayPal. She agreed to this legally binding contract at the time of her order by paying for the invoice. She goes on to even admit she has never read our Terms of Service and even claims that having an order Terms of Service is worthless to the customer as they never read them. 

Ms. Peters also has admitted to us several lies which we have found when trying to prove our case several times over and over again.  Ms. Peters has gone out of her way to make sure we have felt horrible, to the point of trying to bully us for a refund after stating she would and as we quote "take these da*( animals out into my back yard and put a bullet to their head, and nobody would give a da*&".  She has even admitted that her very own mail carrier employed by the US Postal Service, has told her to do the same thing.  We were helping Ms. Peters until this came out, so her claim about failing to help her, is totally un-true.  Our own CEO took time out of his personal vacation in the mountains with his family to try and help find her order.  How many CEOs and business owners are going to do that when they are on vacation with their family and loved ones,  surely not massive box companies. But Pugz Brand will and does.

It's very interesting how Ms. Peters has gone to state that they are a charity when she further admits that they're not one. US IRS Code states that a charity must be 501c3 to be considered a charity.   She also claimed to have a Board of Directors and further went to state that she had to consult with her husband and Board of Directors several times before placing the order, only to find out later, none of which even exist.  Insetad its soley Ms. Peters.  And thus, where is she keeping these "animals" that she claims to have currently, but made claims to us before via email and via telephone that she would just "shoot" these animals and nobody would care. 

Ms. Peters also stated to us several times that she found a much larger company that us to donate food to her and would be able to keep up with the demand, since we are such a small company.  Thus now she admits she can't get any donation period due to she is not a true chairty, which states she's a fraud herself, trying to get something out of companies. Especially when she fails to read the terms of service that every company has regardless of the size and where they are located. 

We find it odd that she has only had a problem with our company after she has made these claims.  Ms. Peters knew from the start and even turned down our company's offer for FREE food to start off with via a professional networking website, which we believe is where she found our company.  After we started questioning her claims of not receiving her order, she decided to become irate with our company, threatening us, making false claims against us with several news media outlets, making false claims that she's spoken to several people in the US Postal Service, but upon contacting those people, they have never heard of her until we made contact.    

Now we come across this report and have seen that she has posted personal information against us which is illegal in the United States in regards to personal safety and well being of our own persons.

We have posted our Terms of Service on our website and via our invoices prior to ordering for a reason, except in this case you have a customer that fails to read and admit that she never read nor cared to read.  If she was not happy with our Terms of Service to start off with why did she even place the order with our company?  Chalking it up to get something free?  Surely seems like it after the comments about "shooting" the animals in her care.
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