• Report: #87791

Complaint Review: Quixtar

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  • Submitted: Thu, April 15, 2004
  • Updated: Thu, August 12, 2010

  • Reported By:Benton City Washington
Quixtar
www.quixtar.com Nationwide U.S.A.

Quixtar Amway Alticor ripoff priestcraft christianity selling manipulative guilt functions standing order CommuniKate Nationwide

*Consumer Comment: The Truth About Amway

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Truth in explination - Not Everybody Indeed!

*Consumer Comment: This Cracks Me Up...

*Consumer Comment: Tim

*Consumer Comment: It's a Cult!

*Consumer Comment: You're right Joe....

*Consumer Comment: MORE PROSPERITY GOSPEL NONSENSE --- IF SOMEBODY CALLS THEMSELVES A CHRISTIAN DOES NOT MAKE IT SO

*Consumer Suggestion: I'm confused

*Consumer Comment: Scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam

*Consumer Suggestion: Respponse to Chantelle

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Quixstar/Amway it's what you make of it.

*Consumer Comment: Use your head, think about it, don't get carried away

*Consumer Comment: Come on, Tim! People will chase their dreams

*Consumer Comment: BBB

*Consumer Comment: "Quixtar math" and "Quixtar facts"

*UPDATE Employee: shoping

*Consumer Comment: Actually no..it is brainwashing

*Consumer Comment: Complainers

*Consumer Comment: Very True Indeed

*Consumer Comment: Not for everybody indeed!

*UPDATE Employee: It works...maybe not for YOU...but it works

*UPDATE Employee: It works...maybe not for YOU...but it works

*UPDATE Employee: It works...maybe not for YOU...but it works

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Beleive What You See and Hear ... everything in this rip-off-report is true ...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Beleive What You See and Hear ... everything in this rip-off-report is true ...

*Consumer Suggestion: Look Here For Facts

*Consumer Suggestion: Look Here For Facts

*Consumer Suggestion: Look Here For Facts

*Consumer Suggestion: Look Here For Facts

*Consumer Comment: Your naievite will catch up with you!

*Consumer Comment: Quixtars Not For Everyone

*Consumer Comment: What church do you go to?

*Consumer Comment: Stay away from Quixtar for all purposes!

*Consumer Comment: Stay away from Quixtar for all purposes!

*Consumer Comment: Stay away from Quixtar for all purposes!

*Consumer Suggestion: Rule Of Thumb. Anytime a person uses the term or terms: We, Us, I am a good Christian or we are good Christians, put your hand over your wallet and run like hell!!

*UPDATE Employee: ACTIVE QUIXTAR MEMBER

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Blame the PEOPLE; not the company

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I am Christian, but I will not be associated with a company that is corrupt.

*Consumer Comment: Sounds like some bad pressure ..uplines are christians and speak of christ

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I'm a Quixtar Survivor.

Here's our story:

My husband and I were first exposed to Quixtar down in Utah, by some people we knew from church. But, we didn't want to do it because I was pregnant at the time, my husband was working 2 jobs, and we were going to be moving after the baby was born. So, we respectfully told them we weren't interested.

Fast forward to WA state a few months later. My husband comes home from work one day and says, "Honey, I met some guy today who works at a radio station where I was shredding some paper. (He's a shred truck driver). And, we were just talking about life and just basically doing small talk, and all of the sudden he says 'LET'S GET TOGETHER'".

My husband was kind of taken aback by that, but because he's such a nice guy, he said, "Sure..." and gave Jeff his phone number.

To make a long story short, we end up meeting these people at McDonald's, not knowing the whole time that we were being "felt-out", "prospected", whatever you want to call it. Jeff was asking us questions about our jobs, what we want to do eventually with our lives, if we want to be in the jobs we're in permanately, or just temporarily,etc. Well, I guess my husband answered everything the way that Jeff liked to hear, because a few days later, we get a call from Jeff again. This time, it's saying "Hey, I know you were talking about how you guys are stressed with money, and I talked to one of my associates here, and there may be some openings with what I do... Would you like to meet with him and he can talk to you about it.... Oh, and bring your wife."

My husband was EXCITED. I mean, REALLY excited. He thought he was going to get some type of a job offer at the Radio Station.

Fast Forward to the meeting. It ends up to be about Quixtar. And, we took the bait. Even though we were kind of confused about Jeff's wording to us when he set up the meeting, we didn't really care because Quixtar sounded like something you could make money in.

So, we signed up. Of course, they'll tell you it only costs $130.00 to become an "Active IBO" or "Business Owner", but then the REAL money starts to be sucked out of you.

Jeff didn't tell us anything about Standing Order (listening to a 30 minutes of a tape a day). Also, the 9 steps of CORE. Going to all of the functions, reading 15 minutes a day, buying everything from yourself... (EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT). Getting on CommuniKate ($35.00/month). And, on an on...

I guess I could go on forever, but to make a long story short. BEWARE OF QUIXTAR. They use Christianity as a means to suck you in. In the tapes, in the seminars, EVERYWHERE. Quoting scriptures to back up one of the "9 Steps of C.O.R.E" is not uncommon either. OH, and my personal favorite. The tape called "God Wants You To Be Rich".

My term for what these people are doing is "priestcraft". Oh, wait. That's not MY term. That's a term in the BIBLE for people who use God to make money. That's what Quixtar is doing, even though they won't admit it.

When I told my upline about my concerns with that, he said "Just treat it like a salad bar, take what you want from it, and move on".

No... I'm not going to support a business that uses tactics like "Believing in Christ" to try and make their business look honest.

I believe in Christ, but even the devil can quote scripture.

One more thing.

My husband and I had a wedding to go to for a cousin of mine. A function was being held that SAME weekend. We told our upline numerous times that we wouldn't be able to go because of a wedding. And, everytime he'd say "OH, I understand, but you're going to miss out." Kept saying that over and over. Finally, I said "You don't need to tell us that everytime we miss a function... family comes first." And, he comes back with "Of course family comes first. But, I think of it as I'm builing my dream and they should understand that. Because my dream's not just for me, it's going to help them too."

Okay, so miss a once in a lifetime wedding (at least we hope it's once) for a stupid Quixtar function. I don't think so.

Bottom Line: The pressure your upline gives you to be on Standing Order, CommuniKate, going to functions, blah blah blah is enough to make you want to scream. It's not your OWN business. It's a business of manipulative uplines in word and deed. They'll try and make you feel guilty if you don't do EXACTLY as they say.

This business is a FRAUD. From the way the IBO's prospect you, in the name of "friendship", to the use of Christianity in their ploys to get business, to the money spent on business "tools" to the time spent trying to do the business. 2-5 hours a week, I DON'T THINK SO. Try your WHOLE life outside of your regular job.

The church of Quixtar is not something that I will be affiliated with any longer. If you have seen some of these flags, and have been even the slightest bit disturbed by them, GET THE HECK OUT. Don't let your upline tell you that you're just ruining your own dream, blah blah blah. They will say ANYTHING to get you to stay, and will try and make you feel guilty. DON'T!!!

I'm glad I'm out. I feel 100% better since. And, if I never see another MLM out there, it'll be too soon. Quixtar has got to be the worst one, though, because they bring Christ into it to. I don't think he's too happy with people making money off of Him.

Emily
Benton City, Washington
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/15/2004 02:35 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Quixtar/nationwide/Quixtar-Amway-Alticor-ripoff-priestcraft-christianity-selling-manipulative-guilt-functions-87791. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

The Truth About Amway

AUTHOR: james - (United States of America)

My wife and I have been around Amway (Quixtar) for about 10 years now. We are not one of the success stories, but having been around that long we have seen quite a few. I am new to this ripoff website, but not supprised at what I have read. You people are the reason it is so hard to succeed in a business like Amway. Let's get real. If Amway was a scam then why do companies like Best Buy, Bass Pro Shops, Verizon, AT&T, Levis, etc. do business with them? 

Amway is a very successfull company, and there are many people who have succeeded with this opportunity. Like many of you, we did not succeed because we had personal problems and we lost the stomach for people like you. People who scauff at us, critisize us, and are outright rude to us. It's disouraging being treated that way. Which is why over 90% of us are not successfull in life period. Whether in this opportunity or another. I respect and applaud those who stuck it out and made it in this bisiness.

As for it costing money to do it. Of course it does, it's a bisiness. They tell you it does in the plan they show you. They also tell you it takes at least 2-5 years to achieve higher levels of income if you are fully dedicated to pursuing it and follow ALL the steps. Just like any other bisiness does. I just hate to see the dishonesty on this website from people who don't know enough about these bisinesses to make an intelligent comment about them. Most of you are just put out by the fact that it takes some work, and you're just too lazy. What you really wanted was a get rich quick scheme where you didn't have to get off the couch!

Sincerely,

James in GA

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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Truth in explination - Not Everybody Indeed!

AUTHOR: Off and on IBO - (United States of America)

The following was filed by Timothy in Valparaiso - not really sure where that is as I dont travel much and live in the midwest. And I have a few issues with what this person has to say. Let me start by saying I have been an IBO 4 times with Amway/Quixtar. Yes I paid 200 for my Business kit in 1995 for the first time I was 16 years old so I had to have my Mother co-sign for my business. As a 16 yr old all I was allowed to do was sell the products. Which at that time were better than anything that was out in the normal marketplace in my geographical location - no SAM's club within an hour drive, no walmart for low low prices on watered down cleaning products etc etc etc. I had to sell retail. I made money based off of my own effort I would buy a cleaning product and physically go to someones home clean what they were having an issue with and if they liked the product they bought it from me. I did this until I became a legal adult to be able to sponsor people which I did and was able to do so went to numerous functions and spent around 3500.00 in 3 years I made roughly 35.00 per month on sales and bonuses x 3 years = 1260.00 so yes I spent more money than I made. Loss = 2240.00 This includes gas, parking fees for events, hotel rooms, tapes/cd's/dvd's, product samples/presentation, and other tools.

Those were all business expences and I made less money than I spent. Those results are typical in every business out there. You will incure loss before you gain any money! Now I've shared with you MY truth in the business. Now I will explain this person's misguided senses.

 

 

{Would you say that a car that breaks down 199 out of every 200 times it's driven "works?" If you wanted to learn Italian, would you take an Italian class, or buy a CD that tells you how great Italian is and how much perseverance it takes to learn it, made by somebody who may not even know Italian?} - No of course not but I would buy one that actually taught me something, Which I have plenty of times while I was in Amway/Quixtar - I have been with multiple organizations within the company some of which I think the company should oust due to their practices and others they are the epidome of good business owners. What he is talking about here is promotional material of Standing Order Tapes or SOT as they are called. Some are of motivational stories that successful IBO's share, others are Psyche driven hype and others are what are called "Nuts & Bolts" type which are approaches, sales skills, people skills, social skills, that are taught to people through the SOT systems because as people's schedules vary often they need to accomidate multiple timeframes and this is the fastest way to share the information which is now including MP3 files that are free to listen to. The last organization I belonged to believed in reducing the ammount of cost people had to spend on Tools and increase profits from their Amway Business.

 

 {Quixtar does not work, and here's a few reasons why, in outline form: 1) The product is unmarketable.}  Totally untrue. I know several people personally who use the products but are not IBO's - and I wasnt the one "sellin" the product to them.

{a) It is overpriced: in my comparison, Quixtar products were an average of 30% more expensive than the same or similar products at a supermarket.} - In some cases I would agree here such as Partner products like cereal and other food items as well as affiliated partner links from the quixtar/amway website - but as far as the core products are concerned I have found this to not be the case - Consider SA8 Laundry detergent - Retails @ 10.95 USD  - 33 loads - vs - TIDE HE Laundry Detergent 40 loads usually sells at 15.00 USD   = SA8 = 0.33 USD per Load vs Tide HE = 0.37 USD per load - both detergents are for High Efficiency Washers where as most of the "bargain brands" detergents are NOT to be used with High Efficiency Washers. 

Need to compare Apples to Apples my friend

{b) It is delivered via an inconvenient method.} This is a relative statement, whats convenient for one persone isnt neccessarily convenient for another - I live in a huge Metro Area of Minneapolis/Saint Paul and depending on the time of day can be pretty hectic place to try to get somewhere in 15 minutes  - so consider it takes me lets just say 20 minutes to get to Store A - I need to pick up 35 items throughout the store it would probably take me about an hour to an hour and a half to find all the items and I was looking for now I drive another 20 minutes to another store I needed to get some specialty tems and that adds about 30 minutes and drive about another 20 minutes home 1 hour drive time + 2 hours shopping

On amway website I can setup an automatic delivery system which ships out from a local Distribution Office right to my doorstep items I use on a daily basis and can add items to the list or remove them as I see fit or I can make a one-time order and have it directly shipped to me, or if I need it right away I can call up my upline Platinum and see it they have it in inventory and get it from them, and since I'm friends with this guy guess what we can meet up for a movie or a workout and guess what I get the item then hmmm I'd say with so many choices of how to get my stuff I want it IS convenient for ME.

{ i) People do not like dealing with salesmen, ansd are not willing to do so for day-to-day purchases.} - I actually prefer helpful and knowledgable people to get the right product from sources like Best Buy now typically if I am sold on a product at BB I will go home and research the product before I buy it of course I'm looking to buy it for less money and from a reputable source but also Im looking at reviews etc etc etc. Your blanket statement may be your view of salesmen/women but it does not reflect "PEOPLE" some people but not all.

{ii) The online shopping format is far more difficult to navigate than a store. iii) Using the online format is more time consuming than a trip to the store.} Im sorry you have such a hard time shopping online . . .I think you should let other people form their own opinions about this subject its obvious you have some issues with but YOU are NOT EVERYONE

{iv) People prefer having products right away over waiting for them to be delivered.} I agree see previous message about Convienience 

{c) Your market is uncontrolled and uncontrollable.} Totally False they are governed by the same bodies who regulate retail stores and websites this statement is so very uneducated.

{2) Business related purchases and the effect of overpricing reduce even the paltry $110 per month average to, in most cases, about $20 per month. Add in the start-up fees, and most IBO lifetimes are marked by negative incomes.} This is where I agree with you it IS that way for many people. As you have seen in my intro my first experience was pretty much what you said. Here's where this information is needed to set correctly $110.00/month is the average for an active IBO - what is an active IBO? Someone who orders a product through the business. There are many more people who "Sign-Up" for the business to just get the retail/wholesale discount for the products than those who try to actually "build" a business.

{ 3) The commission sharing system is crap. And, I guaruntee you that you don't even understand it. Even as you move up in BV, your income will increase only slightly because, at each BV, you must subtract all the BVs below you! Bet you didn't know that!} - First of all You dont understand it. You subtract the bonus of business from your bonus not BV - There is whats called "Pass-UP" which is where You are not performing but your Upline and Downline are and you get cut out because you have not done the work/ gotten sales. There is a quota of $100.00 of Retail sales or 50 points to qualify for any bonus from downline IBO's. Plus you must have a total personal point total of 100 points in the qualifying month. If those conditions are not met then yes everything from Downline that do those things would not be added to your business total - which means you cannot be a freeloader and expect to make money off your associates - which I think I just explained Why this is not a pyramid!

{4) Because the commission sharing system sucks, uplines must hawk bogus motivational materials to make money.} I happen to like what you call "Bogus". These are stories of people who have done what it takes to make it and its not a requirement to use them. In fact if you're not in a financial position with your business to pay for those tools then you shouldn't you should often be able to borrow them from upline who are making money in the Amway business until you start to make some money on your own.

 

{If you fail, the explanation will be that you didn't read enough Kiyosaki. By the way, Kiyosaki is a liar. "Rich Dad" and "Poor Dad" are fictional characters. The "you don't need college" philosophy is preached by a graduate of a prestigious school. Title research has proven that he is not nearly as wealthy as he claims to be, or at least he didn't get rich the way he says he did. When you add up all the Kiyosaki, you get a guy who, if he does have money, got it from hawking worthless advice on topics that he knows nothing about. One day you will realize that IBOs are pretty much the only people that are buying Quixtar products. Hopefully it doesn't take too long.} This is rhetoric that is just hate speech or type as I would call it. And reflects Anger at failure of someone who doesnt have the guts to succeed in any business, try opening a restraunt my friend - much more hassle and you'll find yourself losing more money that you thought you even had before you turn your first table. If you want to complain about that I'd totally understand but you have no fathom of what running a real business is. This is a whole lot less stressful and when I have more time to devote to building a business I will give it my 5th try. You obviously will be staying away from these types of businesses which is a good thing because I wouldnt wan someone like you who would give up just because he lost a couple of hundered dollars buying a plane ticket to a function that he went to and didnt listen to any information provided and went home and did nothing to build his own business. The business works I have made money, I've also lost money in it, I've also lost money by dropping it out of my pocket which happened to be more than I lost doing the Amway business

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#3 Consumer Comment

This Cracks Me Up...

AUTHOR: Alaskan Hunter - (USA)

I really feel for this lady and her husband.  I was in a Quixtar organization called ILD in Alaska for over 7yrs.   Everything she laid out there is true, true, true..  Alot of people live in denial because of the time they have invested into these organizations. 


When most people get out they are so embarrassed for being taken, they don't mention it.   I am not one of those people.   I am sure there are lots of good people in Quixtar, but all it takes is a few bad apples like my upline, just like hers to make someone want to run for the hills.  While reading her story, it sounded like she was describing my upline Jeff and Andrea Moore in Moore Motivation.  I had the same experience, almost identical and stayed in association for around seven years.


With that said, it is business that does not provide much accountability.  Everything is on "faith" and if you and your sponsor have a falling out over whatever, you can lose everything.  I personally walked away and took my loses vs being allowed to be manipulated further.   I feel for the people still in their association, as they are feeding off of them like a coyote over a carcass.   I think if these people want to run a church, open one up.   Not saying you can't use christian principles to guide your business on, I do.  What I am saying is manipulating people with God is exactly how she described it as "Priestcraft". 


The poor fella's that have responded saying she doesn't understand.  I think she does clearly..  Wish them the best....   Just remember a get rich quick scheme is just that,, a scheme.. to get your money from your hand to theirs.

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#4 Consumer Comment

Tim

AUTHOR: Lynn - (United States of America)

Tim,

First I would like to say that I believe you have no true understanding of how the compansation plan works. Can you tell me hot the 4% override works? Do you know what fasttrack is? Can you explain the platinum bonus to me? If I give you an example of what your pv/bv is and three of your downlines, can you can compute what your bonus income would be, minus retail profit of course? Do you know what the Diamond bonus is? What about the emerald bonus? Do you even know what I am talking about?

Probably not.

Did you know Amway Globals sales increased 15% in 2008? During the onset of a recession when most other companies went backwards? Did you know in 2009 they put together a half a BILLION ad campaign to assist Independent Business Owners in growing their business, no monwy whatsoever camo out of the pockets of the Business Owners.

I I know what you are going to say, the money came out of the thirty percent more people pay for products, or the registration fee. Which is refundable by the way for 6 months. Did you know there is a 100% moneyback guarantee on all products for 180 days? Did you know that Nutrilite, one of our exclusive brands that you  say is highly overpriced is the number one vitamin company in the world according to mens health? Did you know we have the greenest detergent according to consumer reports? Did you know that all the cleaning products are concentrated. So say a bottle of our loc window cleaner will last significantly longer than a bottle of windex.

Did you know that Artistry, our skin care and make-up line is one of the top five prestigous brands? Mary Kay may be popular but it isn't quality, neither is maybelline or anything else you can find in a grocery store. So to compare the prices wouldn't even be legitimate. Now if you compare it to say something you bought in the department store you might be getting somewhere. O and did you know that Artistry is the official brand of the Miss America Contest. Did you know that Best Buy and AT&T our some of our newest partner stores?

Did you ever stop to consider the people that sign up in business and then don;t do persue anything at all. Because I have had numerous poeple do that. Did you average in those people in your numbers. You can;t sit here and expect people to actually believe that the twenty dollar monthly average income you came up with is actually legitimate. You can;t tell me that all the money and time and figures that Amway has computed it wrong. Man maybe you should go work in their analysis department. Did you ever stop to think thay they lready included the people that make billions in that number?! Do you think they are so stupid as to not include EVERYONE in that figure. THat includes people who sign up just to get the discount and that includes people that sign up and you never hear from them again it already includes the factors you doubled in twice! Your numbers have no backing and are completly false.

If you still believe this is a scam, which you probably do becasue you are obviously strong-willed and I do admire that, than you might want to talk to the director of the Miss America Pageant and the people at Best Buy and AT&T and the thousands of other companies that Amway is partnered with.  They have a lot more at stack than little ole me or you when getting involved in this business.

I'm sorry someone put a negative impression on you about Amway, there's nothing I can do about what that person did. But I also happened to be strong-willed and will defend the reputation of the company I hold and the good people that are apart of it. Don't get me wrong, there are people that do not abide by the standards of the company. But isn;t that everywhere? I know there are people at my job that don't very well represent the company I work for, but they are still employees nonetheless.

When I first got in this business I was 18 years old, just dropped out of college and I worked three jobs, I was an office manager, a waitress, and an employee at another restaurant. The reason I worked so much was not becasue I had to but becasue that's all I knew how to do, was work hard. School wasn't for me, I knew there had to be something that depended on my own efforts rather than getting a salary from an employer. I just didn't know what it was. In a smaller sense I think that might have been why Iw as a waitress, becasue the tips depended on my quality of service.  I was raised a Christain but I didn't go to church. I had just moved out of my parents house and the house I lived in soon became a party house. I soon realized all my dreams of opening up my own coffee shop, travelling the world, going to third workd countries and helping out were never going to happen. That's about the time I met my soon to be sponser.

I do admit that I did say no at first, I thought I was doing pretty good working my 3 jobs and still making less than 2 grand a month. He asked me again probably six months later and I decided what could it hurt to tkae a look? So I did and got registered. People have said that they were pressured to buy stuff and register for stuff and do all these crazy things. Well that didn't happen. Typically they say to make a list of names and let your upline help you call them. Well I told him I wasn't making him a list of names and he wasn't going to make any phone calls for me. Which severely stunted the growth of my business for a year becasue I didn;t know any details about the business, I had no background in this business or how to operate it. And I had people tell me it was a scam and a waste of time. Those would have been my college drop out party buddies.

Well I decided to go to one of those conferences, not because I was tlaked in to it, or coarsed into doing it, but becasue it was in Nashville, TN. And I LOVE to travel. It was very motivational and very uplifting the who;e weekend and I got to bond and really get to know the team I was apart of. They were alot nicer to me than ym party buddies who would constantly criticize me. Saturday night my sponser told me there was an optional church service sunday morning and ASKED me if I wanted to go. He didn;t force it on me. Didn't tell me I had to go, but asked in a very respective way. I said yes, seeing as how the weekend had been great and I claimed to be a Christain despite the lifestyle I was living. So what. It's not a big deal that they offer a church service. They are renting the space out for the wwekend they might as well use it!

Anyways my point is, through the association I was around I quit smoking and quit drinking. NOt becasue anyone forced me, not becasue anyone said it was a good idea. But becasue the people I was around led by example, had patience with me and gave me room to grow.  I'm not saying that smoking and drinking are bad. For me it was because I was partying while I was doing it, I was setting a bad example. It wasn't a cigarette on my way home from work. It was setting up the hookah in the living room. It wasn;t a glass of wine with dinner, it was a bottle of jack and wash it down with a beer. My roommate I later found out, who was male and had a girlfriend and I'm female, yet another great choice in my life, was doing drugs as well. Smoking pot and doing shrooms. Without the help of my upline I wouldn't have been able to get out of that situation. And it's not because he told me to, forced me to, or made me. It's becasue I asked him to. I choose to change.

I can honestly say that this business has saved me from being another statistic. Saved me from being another single mom on welfare living off the governement and always looking for a handout. Can you really put a price on that? On a life pulled out of the gutters? I don't believe so.

The team I am a part of stands on faith, yes that's true. But I don;t force my beliefs on anybody. I know numerous people through this business with different backgrounds. I know buddhistd, blacks, whites, asians, gays, lesbians. And I accept them for who they are becasue that's what my belief tells me to do and that is what I choose to do. I am now engaged to the man that sponsored me, yea you can even find a husband through amway. And one who treats me better than the pot smoking beer bellied jerk I was dating before I met him. I now attend Church regularly and I am able to go on numerous missions trips through my church because of my business.

I build my business so I can help people live the life they were meant to live rather than polluting our world with negativity like I once was.  Don't get me wrong, just because I build my business becasue of my beliefs doesn;t I expect people to have my religious beliefs. I don;t shove Jesus down their throats. THere is a fine line between business and Christ.

The biggest thinkg I have learned from this business is that the tools are there for you to use. By tools I mean your upline, the functions, the weekly meetings, the cds, the websites. All tools, all OPTIONS for you to CHOOSE to use or not use.

Amway has nothing to do with who preached that Sunday morning. Amway has nothing to do with the guy that sponsered me and will soon be my husband. Those are the people. There are always negatives and positives to everything in life. I don't claim that Amway is a perfect business. I don't claim that the people are either. And I certainly don;t claim that I am perfect by any means. But when you have that awesome night of drinking out with your buddies on your birthday, your still going to wake up with a hangover. There is always a price to pay. The problem isn;t with the business it's with the people.  People make things difficult. It's the people, like me when i first got started, that don't follow a system that has been in place for fifty years and has proven successful by the 8.2 billion dollars amway was worth in 2008. Nobody forces anything on anyone in any situation. There is always a choice. Everyone always has their choice and they choose to use it in whatever way they want.

You Tim have chosen to respond to multiple positive post about amway when you made it clear you want nothing to do with it. So if you want nothing to do with it then why keep responding? Is it becasue you know there actually might be something to this thing you turned down? Is it becasue you have nothing better to do than bash other people's choice to build this business?

Some people have a preconscieved notion that when you are a Chrstian if you don;t live like Christ does then you are a faker and a scamer. Well the Bible tells us we will work from the ground to earn our food. Now if you take that literally like you have done with numerous other things than are you telling me since I am a Christain me and my future husband will have to go live on a farm? Times have changed and most people don;t take the time to see that the Bible has been proven a timeless testimony of how we should live. People take things out of it and twist it to prove their points. Like submission. People don't even know the true concept and how it is to be used, becasue people take one verse and twist it to their advantage.

I feel you have done the same thing with Amway. You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But you obviously don;t have all your facts straight and are too bull headed to get them. I don;t believe people who haven't been involved in the program have a right to comment negatively. In fact if you haven't been actively involved for at least two years you still don't know what is going on and you have should keep your trap shut. Shre you can make observations but you have no right to bash soemthing you know nothing about. Especially if you did your 'research' on the internet.

If I was in a scam I don;t thin John Maxwell or Oliver North or John Sestena would supprt what I do and the team I am a part of.

And the the people i am in business with and why i myslef give money to Christain organizations and other organizations is becasue it is what we believe is right. I don;t know how on Earth on could criticize someone with wealth for giving money to help broke people out! I mean are you jealous becasue you think you are too broke to do anything yourself? Is it becasue your name isn;t on the recieving end. Even as a waitress, even when I was barely making enough to pay my rent and put food on the table I invested and gave to numerous organizations. Becasue I know that people on the recieving end needed more than I did. Nobody criticized Mrs.Croc's decision to leave one billion dollars to the salvation army in her will, why would you criticize someone for giving to other people? it's stupid. I don't know when this world because so selfish, but I am out to make a difference and that is why I build my business.

My whole goal is to share a business, to show you a lifstyle worth living, not to sell this business to anyone.

If you know of any other business that provides the income Amway does, that touches peoples lives like the team I'm a part of does, that offers a lifestyle like this one does, or that is making an impact like we are than please tell me I am all ears. If not, quit criticizing what I do, condemning who I am and the company I stand for, and complaining about something you have nothing to do with.

Until you stick around the team for two years and put a legitamite effort into this thing you have no worht while input to provide, in my honest opinion. And unless you are willing to do that, which it is obvious you are not then you should keep your mouth sewn up tight about Amway.

But from what you have written I'll expect you have something negative to say about me and you'll find another false advertisment about amway to post. There's false advertisment about alot of things out there and you aren;t even willing to look at the FTC and BBB or talk to the companies that have partnered with amway and ask them why they do it. You take something you think you see and twist it and interpret it how you want people to see it.

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#5 Consumer Comment

It's a Cult!

AUTHOR: Beatnikjd - (U.S.A.)

Amway is more like a cult than a legitimate business. The founders routinely fund 'religious' right causes and funds some extremist groups. DeVos and his buddy are the worst sort of vermin. Run away from amway/quixstar as fast as you can! It's a scam using Christianity as bait.
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#6 Consumer Comment

You're right Joe....

AUTHOR: Newfenoix - (U.S.A.)

Calling something "Christian" has become the chic thing to do to get people to trust it. What is has done is to make that word a joke. When people hear "Christian" they think crook.
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#7 Consumer Comment

MORE PROSPERITY GOSPEL NONSENSE --- IF SOMEBODY CALLS THEMSELVES A CHRISTIAN DOES NOT MAKE IT SO

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

A CHRISTIAN PERSON DOES NOT LIE AND TRY TO INVOLVE YOU IN A PYRAMIID OR PONZI SCHEME, DEMAND THAT YOU MAKE YOUR FAMILY SECOND_PLACE...

THIS SOUNDS MORE LIKE AN OCCULT ORGANIZATION AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY.

THANK YOU FOR WARNING EVERYBODY ABOUT THIS.

THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL STARTS OFF WITH SOMEBODY ( USUALLY A PREACHER IN A MEGACHURCH OR SOME TELEVANGELIST) SHOUTING THAT GOD WANTS YOU TO BE RICH! AND IF YOU WILL ONLY GIVE MONEY, YOU WILL GET MIRACLE ACCORDING TO THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT YOU GIVE.

BUT YOU WILL GET NO MIRACLES, EVEN IF YOU GIVE ALL OF YOUR MONEY AND MANY PEOPLE HAVE....

IF IT WANTS YOUR MONEY AND DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOUR FAMILY...IT IS NOT CHRISTIAN AS I UNDERSTAND IT.

IN FACT, IT IS JUST ANOTHER SCAM HIDING UNDER THE GUISE OF RELIGION.
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#8 Consumer Suggestion

I'm confused

AUTHOR: Darksyde Tattoo - (U.S.A.)

Well lets see here. I recieved a phone call from one of my best friends about three weeks ago. Now keep in mind this is a friend that I would trust my own kids life to. I've known him for atleast 15yrs, all through high school and college. I went to school to be a diesel mechanic. I've never been able to find a job that suits me what so ever. I am a very strong minded hard headed blunt person. I don't take people playing games with me lightly. And my firend knows this I'm sure of it. He believes that this is an opportunity for him to make a better life for him and his family. He is less than a month away from loosing a job that he has had now for 8yrs. Because of the big 3's issues. I work here and there when I can. But my ture calling has always been art. So I live the starving artist lifestyle. My wife has a good job with a big company but doesn't make to much money. We have bills upon bills to pay every month. Before you say or think anything only 2 of them are creditcards and both are under 1,000 in debt and current. I dont have 15 or whatever the national average is. I'm good at what i do but there is no market for it.
So Here I am in a perdicament. I have been going to the workshops and meeting with an upline now for about three weeks. Never once has god been shoved in my face. I have heard the dream spill and you don't have to buy into it at all, I dont neccesarily myself. I don't believe anything is free. Keep in mind I was raised in a baptist church. My grandfather was a preacher. and my mother still goes every chance she gets. Back to the subject. I won't ever in anyway shape or form be affiliated with any company that does that to me. I believe there is a god, but I cant stand bible thumpers. Now that we have that straight. I am very interested in this business. The money side of it mainly. And any help my family can get is good help. If I only get my grocerys cheaper, or my mom gets her vitamins cheaper, diapers are expensive. Any of these thing will help my family. Not having to go to the store all the time either. I might not ever be an upline or anything like that. But I will use this opportunity to its full extent. I have a 2yr old an 11yr old and a new one on the way. So your story caught my attention.
All I can say to you and everyone esle is this. I have not yet been bombarded with jesus I have listened to 7 different cd's so far and heard god once and jesus once. and they were used in stories by individuals who have there own beliefs. We are free people to a certain extent. Since your a christian if something helped you earn money and make a good life for your family. Would you not thank god for it when you were asked to get up on stage to tell your story? Maybe just maybe are you a hardcore bible thumper yourself, and the upline was feeding you what he thought you wanted to hear. Most of the people I have met are christians but i only found out by asking them myself or by hearing it through another person. I dont know if you got into the business with the wrong person or people, but I have yet to deal with all this christcraft you complain about. I am a firm believer that I dont have to go to church every week for 3hrs and give 10% of the money i don't have, to believe in god or a god. most of the people I have met in church have been hypoctrics to begin with.
Maybe you should ask yourself this. Was I or my husband smart enough to even try or did you sign up and expect it all to fall in place. I'm quoting my upline when I say this. "you are only gonna get out of this, what you put in". so the way I have been subjected to this business is workshops email cds (that I didnt pay a thing for!!!!!!!!!!!!) and watching my possible upline purchace a new car with cash, and seeing statments proving that him and his wife have pulled themselves back from over 70,000 dollars in debt in 3yrs. Sure they both have decided to do this full time and they do travel alot. But this guy drives from richmond to meet with us twice a week 4hrs here and back. So far he seams to be a good guy. I will give him the chance he deserves to prove this business can work for me. If not then find I will have access to stuff that you wont and deals that you don't. In the end i will have no hard feelingings towards quixtar, amway, or my possible upline either way. I have met some cool people and i have seen people that i haven't seen in yrs by going to these workshops.
One last thing for you and everyone to think about. When you are in a room with three people that are worth millions because of this business and trhey tell you and show you how to do it they way they did. You would be stupid not to listen Because I'm sure your not.
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#9 Consumer Comment

Scam, scam, scam, scam, scam, scam

AUTHOR: Newfenoix - (U.S.A.)

I heard a lot of trash working as a cop and as a PI. Calling a Ford a Honda does not make it a Honda. Calling Quixtar a legitimate business does not make it one. It does not match any business model that I learned about in college. None!!! There are millionaires that got their money from this scam. They stole it from you!
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#10 Consumer Suggestion

Respponse to Chantelle

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Chantelle, I don't dispute that there are some successes in Quixtar. Your father may be making money, some of his downlines may be making money. But how many people, over the years, have made little or no money, or worse, lost money? If pops has been in the biz for years, he's probably doing pretty well, because he probably has a well established downline.

But there is a flaw in your reasoning. You stated that "I just wanted to let you know it wasn't Quixstar it was your upline that did not give you the support and guidance you needed."

The problem is that the Quixtar structure allows for inept and unscrupulous uplines. The secret to being a successful upline is to recruit as many people as you can, and hope that they make some significant purchases before they drop out. You cannot deny that the system encourages this.

So yes, the problem lies partially with the uplines, but the ROOT of the problem is that the structure allows for bad uplines.
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#11 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Quixstar/Amway it's what you make of it.

AUTHOR: Chantelle - (U.S.A.)

I use to be a IBO I worked hard but people just kept saying know and I lost intrest.
But My Father has been in for years and him and his upline is doing great. I've seen there homes and know the money that there making some has Millions and Millions of dollars. But the key is to have a positive upline that is willing to work with you and you having a open mind and not giving up. If it's your path God is going to see you through it know matter what. I gave up I had kids at home and know support. But If I could do it all again I wish I never gave up and I'm really thinking about getting back in.

I just wanted to let you know it wasn't Quixstar it was your upline that did not give you the support and guidance you needed.
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#12 Consumer Comment

Use your head, think about it, don't get carried away

AUTHOR: Sharon - (U.S.A.)

Back in the 90's my family doctor (of all people!) asked me if I'd be interested in a "business opportunity". I immediately asked "Is it Amway?" She was momentarily taken aback, because Amway/Quixtar recruiters are instructed to NOT tell people what they're being invited to. But then she remembered what they're instructed to say when they're forced into admitting it's Amway - she told me it's the "new" Amway!

I've had friends who've been involved in Amway and other MLM companies. Although Amway's one I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, I *have* worked for several home party plans but I did it "my way" - they were simply part-time jobs, and unlike my mother (who recruited me for several) I didn't get nutsy-cultic about it, spend all my money on "samples", and get totally obsessed and desperate trying to lure new salespeople with promises of riches. It rarely works that way.

At any rate, when I went to my doctor's intro session, I immediately spotted how this one worked. It was easy to see that buying and using all their products was a racket - you'd be paying higher prices for just about everything, not to mention the $ for all those "training" tapes and materials.

My friends who'd gotten involved in it years before ended up spending a lot of money before they quit. I tried the products and didn't like them, especially the laundry detergent. It just didn't get my clothes as clean as mid-priced detergents, and *all* their products just weren't worth the price, even with my "friend" discount!

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#13 Consumer Comment

Come on, Tim! People will chase their dreams

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

until they wake up in a nightmare.

I remember that a coworker from "THE Company" invited my wife & I to a "hamburger" emporium about 8 years ago. I forget the name (of the emporium). I was ultimately surprised about what was presented {it was a 'mystery' prior to our meeting} because our "host" was a successful rising engineer at "THE Company". He spent at least 45 minutes drawing circles!

No fooling- he actually spent at least 45 minutes drawing circles! And you know what- I have NO IDEA WHAT IN HELL HE WAS TRYING TO SUCK US INTO! AND I STILL DON'T, 8 years later! One of these days I will figure it out. I will be like O.J. searching for the real killer.....

No matter- my wife got REALLY upset with this fiasco and that was that. Me? Nothing made sense to me, and it made no matter anyway because we were doing very well in a very quiet way. The hamburgers were really good, though.
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#14 Consumer Comment

BBB

AUTHOR: Karen - (U.S.A.)

If anyone has any questions about Quixtar, Alticore, Amway, or Access Business Group, why don't you check them out at the Better Business Bureau? Keep in mind; almost every person with a new idea was deemed crazy or fraudulent i.e. Thomas Eddison, Graham Bell, Henry Ford, and so forth. Also, you can look up almost any topic on almost any website on the internet and get a myriad of conflicting information along with data to prove the point either way. If you are interested in something you should go to a RELIABLE source (i.e. .gov, .org, etc) and find out about it, not some jo-schmo web site with falsified or misconstrued data. Lastly, if you don't like what you see then don't get involved and if you feel you were treated unfairly, ask for a refund, I'm sure someone up the chain will be willing to give you one if you are that unhappy. Just my 2 cents.
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#15 Consumer Comment

"Quixtar math" and "Quixtar facts"

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

At its peak, PeaPod had roughly 124,000 customers. Not exactly small potatoes, huh?

Well yes, actually it is. You see, your fact is a perfect example of "Quixtar math." Sure, PeaPod had (or has? from what I can tell, they're still in business) a great deal of customers.

But a figure like "124,000" customers isn't quite as impressive when you consider that the market areas served by PeaPod contained roughly 20 million people. All in all, after several years in the grocery industry, PeaPod captured less than .6% of the relevant market. That's roughly one out of every 150 people that were swayed by the concept of "smart shopping for busy people."

Consider further that PeaPod was active in the very markets where the service made alot of sense (Chicago, New York, etc). Not only is grocery shopping considerably more inconvenient in these major metropolitan areas than it is say, in Valparaiso Indiana, but grocery prices tend to be inflated and residents tend to have less free time. So, even where the service probably would have been a great value, it actually caught on with very few people.

But let's take this a step further, shall we?

Let's say that the entire country catches on to Quixtar's online shopping paradigm to the same extent that they did with PeaPod. Extrapolating PeaPod's customer base to the US population, we come up with 1,860,000 Americans as a potential "online household shopper" population.

Now we match that up with the number of IBOs out there, which Quixtar places at somewhere around 340,000. This means that, for every IBO, there are approximately 5.5 POTENTIAL Quixtar consumers. And, of course, one of those consumers is the IBO himself.

But that's not the end of it! PeaPod offered the groceries that people actually buy, at or below the prices you would expect to pay at your local grocer. Quixtar, unfortunately, doesn't sell most of the products consumers are familiar with. Additionally, the comparable products that are sold are an average of about 30% more expensive.

So you left with 4.5 potential customers, whom you must seek out and hope are naive enough to pay such inflated prices.

So let's say that, at best, the average IBO can sign up and retain three customers. If each customer spends an average of $200 per week, the IBO can expect a total commission somewhere in the neighborhood of $12-$24 per week. However, when you subtract the premium that the IBO himself is paying, the actual income goes down to, at best, a $36 LOSS every week.

The problem, Melinda, is that Quixtar markets itself to potential IBOs with
alot of facts. Real business-people aren't satisfied with raw facts. Rather, they take those facts and analyze them to see what they really mean. Pretty much any "Quixtar fact" boils down to something really, really bad when you take the time to see what it really means.

"And people go to major companies everyday to shop threw there online stores and have things delivered."

Yes! They do! I do a ton of individual-item shopping on line, as do many, many people. But VERY FEW people do the majority of their shopping online. VERY FEW people make their routine purchases online. How many people do you know, other than IBOs, who make regular household purchases, online, on a regular basis? Here's a news flash: nobody's buying their Tide online!

Also, the purchases that I make online I make THROUGH THE COMPANY'S WEBSITE! Why, in God's name, would I want to go through Quixtar to purchase a product from Circuit City? So I can fund an unecessary level in the distribution chain? Get real!

You established a successful pet-sitting business. Excellent! I admire your ability to stick to a FEASIBLE business plan! Pet-sitting happens to be a service that people are willing to pay big money for, and if you can get your naem out there as a reliable provider, then you can damn well make some cash at it. Good for you (and I mean that in a non-sarcastic way) for sticking to a plan that had potential.

Now ditch the plan that has no potential, because Quixtar is nothing but a losing proposition.

"And when I was showed this business I looked at all ends of it. I knew what to look for since I had knowledge of business ownership."

If you had really looked at all ends of this plan, from the perspective of someone who knew about business, then you would have certainly extrapolated a hypothetical business model. Had you done so, you would have found out for yourself that Quixtar is a mathematical fallacy. there is a HUGE flaw in the commissions system that screws over even the most "successful" of team builders. Read some of my other postings and you'll find it.
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#16 UPDATE Employee

shoping

AUTHOR: Melinda - (U.S.A.)

Timothy have you ever heard of PeaPod? It was an online business that let people shop form home instead of going to the store to buy food. It was very popular here in the Chicago area. THey went out of business you know why? Not because of lack of customers but because they had to many!! They could not handle the extreme growth and had to stop because they could not fill all the orders that where coming in day after day.

So apperently alot of people LIKED to shop at home and did not find it inconvient.

And people go to major companies everyday to shop threw there online stores and have things delivered. If this wasn't popular businesses wouldn't have them.

And like any business owner it takes time and money to build one. I started my own business at 18 and seven years later I have a nice cleint base. You know what I do? I'm a petsitter. I put a lot of money into building it. Had my own family members telling me to get a REAL job and work for someone else because they do it too. I refused to work for someone else and still do to this day. I Love what I do. And when I was showed this business I looked at all ends of it. I knew what to look for since I had knowledge of business ownership.

I don't listen to tapes and I don't go to functions but I'm not losing money in this business either. I'm not a christen and follow Gods will. I don't have standing orders. I just buy things when I need it. I just buy it from myself instead of a store. nothing wrong with that.

My upline does not shove things down my thoat or give me guilt trips. Infact they are very nice people and I have seen them work hard for their business. He only works part time as a bartender and she is a stay at home mom. THey have a nice house and two very nice children.

As long as you treat it like a business becasue it is you will do well. If you treat it like a hobby well you won't do well. It's that simple.
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#17 Consumer Comment

Actually no..it is brainwashing

AUTHOR: Nate - (U.S.A.)

Let me get make this clear. The Quixtar business in itself is not corrupt, as it has a legit business model, but, like Amway (which is Quixtar, just through e-commerce, they changed names)they tend to destroy the spirit of the law but go by the letter of the law. What makes these supposedly "independent business owners" or IBO's brainwashed is the motivational education system that is sold through Quixtar (which was created by Dexter Yager, who by the way, is an extremist who misquotes practically anything to get what he wants. Many View him as an anti-Christ for his comments, thats how he became Rich was by this specific system..it wasnt Quixtar) According to the Quixtar contract, it indeed says that these motivational materials are "optional." So, with this specific line within the contract, it makes it a, a lack for a better term, legal pyramid scheme. BUT, when you attend any convention/meeting, they tell you "sure, the materials are optional, but so is success." So what must someone say to that? "I dont want to be successful"? Of course they will buy the motivational materials because they were subjugated to.

What these materials do is pump up the persons ego by giving them the same message again and again, which is that they will become "diamond" level if they keep trying and dishing out money, or by buying more motivational materials and listening to their upline. So what happens is that a person who constantly listens to the CD, tapes, reads the books, will become so attached that it actually places that same message into the subconscious or unconscious which basically controls your thoughts. So now you have this living Quixtar product who quotes Dexter Yager, or the newest CD they bought at the latest convention. People become extremely egotistical, believe me, with this system because they are taught that they know pretty much everything there is to know about life. So now this person is controlled by the "brainwashed" subconscious.

What happens to these people you say? Well, of course they keep regular jobs as "it is necessary in the beginning of the business." But then, somehow, they get fired from their jobs. They blame the job, the blame the whole job system. Why? Because their so full of ego that they do pretty much what they want at their job, becoming problems and acting like they should be running the show. So now, without a job, they go back to the business with renewed fervor, buy more CDs that emphasize the same message without ANY real business advice or facts. If you listen to ANY CD of theirs, all it will tell is short anecdotes about the persons life, make some jokes to crack the ice, and go on with metaphors on how fast you can make it with the business and be better than anyone else. NO statistics, no FACTS, nothing..just words to sell to pump up someone's material dreams...they rarely, if even that, talk about their products and why to sell them, or even HOW to sell them. The real money is within this "educational" system. These IBOs are now in a vicious cycle in which cycle through jobs, gain renewed fervor into the business and blame the job, dish out more money to Quixtar (motivational education system).

People who go through the supposedly 2-5 year plan to reach Diamond level are quite lost. It usually takes about 3 years for someone to actually snap out of this egotistical mode and finally realize they being used. But there's a choice, and this is where ethics/morals come in. They either 1)Quit the business and move on with a real life doing something legit and helping people rather then subjugating them, or 2) Join the ranks by selling the motivational materials at the expense of hundreds of naive IBOs that think they can reach Diamond level by using the regular Quixtar model.

PS: The whole "everyone is brainwashed with something." Yea..its called influence and culture. Brainwashing is the legitmate harming of a person for profit or benefit for someone else.
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#18 Consumer Comment

Complainers

AUTHOR: Joel - (U.S.A.)

When you start a business it is yours. I have experienced just about everything tha has been stated above. You can find fault in everything that is presented...even in the Bible...don't believe me then that's because you have been brainwashed just like everyone else on the planet. You can put brainwashing into any category. Employees are brainwashed but they don't see themselves as that. Why, because that is what they have been taught. Go ask your boss how much money he makes...he won't tell you. Why? Why is your job not seen as a pyramid scheme? Because that what it is...but you don't complain.

Christians don't see themselves as brainwashed but I don't think Jesus was a white guy. If brainwashing is your argument then everyone on this planet has been brainwashed. Period. End of argument. Why because you can't argue that. You know it's true.

I sell the products and make money and have satisfied customers. Doesn't matter what my upline says...I make it work.
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#19 Consumer Comment

Very True Indeed

AUTHOR: Nate - (U.S.A.)

Well my friend and his brother have recently gone into the Quixtar business and I have to say for myself, that this entire business is similiar to a cult.

My friend for the longest time has been pushing me to join this business for the sole purpose of becoming financial independent. Well I dont agree with the whole thing, so he gets mad saying that I dont know anything and that I can live my life working for someone else and not becoming a leader.

Well this is coming from a guy that dropped out of school to join this business and has no intention of going back anytime soon.

Everything he or his brother say is a continual message that you must be your own business owner with this business to become successful, they even claim doctors, lawyers, surgeons, judges are not successful because they cant manage time with their job. Well he showed me many inspirational CD's, which have nothing valuable in them.

All they say is "keep goin with this company, I did, I made money! yea!" A couple of jokes here and there to crack the ice, but the same message is delivered in every meeting from what I've heard and seen.

My friend and his brother are completely brainwashed from the continuous message implanted in their gullible brains at every weekly meeting, every book they read, every cd they listen to, and every conference they attend- in which all they have to pay for!!

Dont give up on a dream, but dont let someone feed on your dreams for profit either.
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#20 Consumer Comment

Not for everybody indeed!

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Would you say that a car that breaks down 199 out of every 200 times it's driven "works?"

If you wanted to learn Italian, would you take an Italian class, or buy a CD that tells you how great Italian is and how much perseverance it takes to learn it, made by somebody who may not even know Italian?

Quixtar does not work, and here's a few reasons why, in outline form:

1) The product is unmarketable.
a) It is overpriced: in my comparison, Quixtar products were an average of 30% more expensive than the same or similar products at a supermarket.
b) It is delivered via an inconvenient method.
i) People do not like dealing with salesmen, ansd are not willing to do so for day-to-day purchases.
ii) The online shopping format is far more difficult to navigate than a store.
iii) Using the online format is more time consuming than a trip to the store.
iv) People prefer having products right away over waiting for them to be delivered.
c) Your market is uncontrolled and uncontrollable.

2) Business related purchases and the effect of overpricing reduce even the paltry $110 per month average to, in most cases, about $20 per month. Add in the start-up fees, and most IBO lifetimes are marked by negative incomes.

3) The commission sharing system is crap. And, I guaruntee you that you don't even understand it. Even as you move up in BV, your income will increase only slightly because, at each BV, you must subtract all the BVs below you! Bet you didn't know that!

4) Because the commission sharing system sucks, uplines must hawk bogus motivational materials to make money. If you fail, the explanation will be that you didn't read enough Kiyosaki. By the way, Kiyosaki is a liar. "Rich Dad" and "Poor Dad" are fictional characters. The "you don't need college" philosophy is preached by a graduate of a prestigious school. Title research has proven that he is not nearly as wealthy as he claims to be, or at least he didn't get rich the way he says he did. When you add up all the Kiyosaki, you get a guy who, if he does have money, got it from hawking worthless advice on topics that he knows nothing about.

One day you will realize that IBOs are pretty much the only people that are buying Quixtar products. Hopefully it doesn't take too long.
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#21 UPDATE Employee

It works...maybe not for YOU...but it works

AUTHOR: Albert - (U.S.A.)

You all don't just get it. First of all, quixtar is NOT for everyone. Well, duh. You want to learn a language, why would you choose Italian over Chinese? Because Chinese is not for you. And also, does it mean just because someone you know has tried to learn Italian and they were unable too, that you yourself could not?

Second of all, is this business of your money being ripped off. First of all, nobody is FORCED to go on Standing order or whatever. You are strongly advised to do so, and there is actually a pretty good reason if you think about it. If you want to learn Italian, you get textbooks and audio tapes to help you. If you want to get a beach body, you go the gym, get the appropriate shoes for running, eat the appropriate nutritional supplements etc. If you want help in growing your IBO business you get the appropriate tools and talk to the right people. This is NOTHING new, that happens EVERYWHERE in life. Now sure, some people don't want to go to meetings on a Friday night, or they don't want to spend money on CDs. That's fine, it's just about what you're willing to do. Some aren't willing to do that. You are an independent BUSINESS owner. Business owners invest to start up their businesses.

Also, this business of a pyramid. For one, pyramids They are illegal in the USA. In fact, ask yourself why Bill Gates, IBM, the head of the US Chamber of commerce would be dealing with something illegal. Think about that for a little bit. You can make more money than the person that sponsors you, nobody stops that from happening.

Then there are the uplines, and the visible growth that I SEE. I have seen that it works. That is why I am stressing that you must make a distinction between doesn't work FOR ME and doesn't work at all. Very large difference.

You don't get anything for free. If you want some anti-virus software, YOU PAY. Somebody makes money. You're hungry and you need a burger? YOU PAY. Somebody makes money. So it is not a shocking concept that there is an element of 'you pay' in the business, now is there? It was made clear to me at the beginning that this is NOT a get-rich quick scheme, and that it would take some work. So that, combined with the fact that I have SEEN people grow from point A to B, and that already in the first month I've moved up the ladder, I'm in.

Note: I haven't been exposed to the 'christian elements' of the business which may have to do with where I am located. Also, you were approached wrong, what we're told is that if we're cold contacting we should always let the prospects know when you exchange contact info why you'll be calling him.
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#22 UPDATE Employee

It works...maybe not for YOU...but it works

AUTHOR: Albert - (U.S.A.)

You all don't just get it. First of all, quixtar is NOT for everyone. Well, duh. You want to learn a language, why would you choose Italian over Chinese? Because Chinese is not for you. And also, does it mean just because someone you know has tried to learn Italian and they were unable too, that you yourself could not?

Second of all, is this business of your money being ripped off. First of all, nobody is FORCED to go on Standing order or whatever. You are strongly advised to do so, and there is actually a pretty good reason if you think about it. If you want to learn Italian, you get textbooks and audio tapes to help you. If you want to get a beach body, you go the gym, get the appropriate shoes for running, eat the appropriate nutritional supplements etc. If you want help in growing your IBO business you get the appropriate tools and talk to the right people. This is NOTHING new, that happens EVERYWHERE in life. Now sure, some people don't want to go to meetings on a Friday night, or they don't want to spend money on CDs. That's fine, it's just about what you're willing to do. Some aren't willing to do that. You are an independent BUSINESS owner. Business owners invest to start up their businesses.

Also, this business of a pyramid. For one, pyramids They are illegal in the USA. In fact, ask yourself why Bill Gates, IBM, the head of the US Chamber of commerce would be dealing with something illegal. Think about that for a little bit. You can make more money than the person that sponsors you, nobody stops that from happening.

Then there are the uplines, and the visible growth that I SEE. I have seen that it works. That is why I am stressing that you must make a distinction between doesn't work FOR ME and doesn't work at all. Very large difference.

You don't get anything for free. If you want some anti-virus software, YOU PAY. Somebody makes money. You're hungry and you need a burger? YOU PAY. Somebody makes money. So it is not a shocking concept that there is an element of 'you pay' in the business, now is there? It was made clear to me at the beginning that this is NOT a get-rich quick scheme, and that it would take some work. So that, combined with the fact that I have SEEN people grow from point A to B, and that already in the first month I've moved up the ladder, I'm in.

Note: I haven't been exposed to the 'christian elements' of the business which may have to do with where I am located. Also, you were approached wrong, what we're told is that if we're cold contacting we should always let the prospects know when you exchange contact info why you'll be calling him.
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#23 UPDATE Employee

It works...maybe not for YOU...but it works

AUTHOR: Albert - (U.S.A.)

You all don't just get it. First of all, quixtar is NOT for everyone. Well, duh. You want to learn a language, why would you choose Italian over Chinese? Because Chinese is not for you. And also, does it mean just because someone you know has tried to learn Italian and they were unable too, that you yourself could not?

Second of all, is this business of your money being ripped off. First of all, nobody is FORCED to go on Standing order or whatever. You are strongly advised to do so, and there is actually a pretty good reason if you think about it. If you want to learn Italian, you get textbooks and audio tapes to help you. If you want to get a beach body, you go the gym, get the appropriate shoes for running, eat the appropriate nutritional supplements etc. If you want help in growing your IBO business you get the appropriate tools and talk to the right people. This is NOTHING new, that happens EVERYWHERE in life. Now sure, some people don't want to go to meetings on a Friday night, or they don't want to spend money on CDs. That's fine, it's just about what you're willing to do. Some aren't willing to do that. You are an independent BUSINESS owner. Business owners invest to start up their businesses.

Also, this business of a pyramid. For one, pyramids They are illegal in the USA. In fact, ask yourself why Bill Gates, IBM, the head of the US Chamber of commerce would be dealing with something illegal. Think about that for a little bit. You can make more money than the person that sponsors you, nobody stops that from happening.

Then there are the uplines, and the visible growth that I SEE. I have seen that it works. That is why I am stressing that you must make a distinction between doesn't work FOR ME and doesn't work at all. Very large difference.

You don't get anything for free. If you want some anti-virus software, YOU PAY. Somebody makes money. You're hungry and you need a burger? YOU PAY. Somebody makes money. So it is not a shocking concept that there is an element of 'you pay' in the business, now is there? It was made clear to me at the beginning that this is NOT a get-rich quick scheme, and that it would take some work. So that, combined with the fact that I have SEEN people grow from point A to B, and that already in the first month I've moved up the ladder, I'm in.

Note: I haven't been exposed to the 'christian elements' of the business which may have to do with where I am located. Also, you were approached wrong, what we're told is that if we're cold contacting we should always let the prospects know when you exchange contact info why you'll be calling him.
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#24 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Beleive What You See and Hear ... everything in this rip-off-report is true ...

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

I am an ex-IBO with Quixtar ... you will always find two ends of the spectrum on any issue ... I will attempt to provide the factual end (as others have tried to do throughout this commentary) ... first, everything in this rip-off-report is true ... the approach to this MLM is exactly as stated, it is sneaky and underhanded ... the pressure is severely on from your upline to buy cassettes, books, and attend every function ... someone stated in their rebuttal that it ws the people not the company that was misleading; well the people are the company ... if Quixtar was on the up-and-up and honest, why would so many people have been unpleased with their association with this company ... now those individuals who spoke in dfense of Quixtar were quoting exactly what the tapes.books and seminar speakers had embedded in their minds ... as one report stated, they regurgitated everything that any Quixtar upline, dedicated IBO, tape, book, seminar speaker had alreay stated ... Quixtar isn't for everyone, because everyone isn't asa dishonest as Quixtar (the company, the people, both the same) requires/influences people to be ... the products are exceededly more than what can be purchased at a local shopping store, SAMS Club, Cosco's or BJ's ... the products are no more better than the average products that a consumer can purchase from any retail store ... and the people at the top make all the money, because there are so many dreamers out there spending their cash on tapes, books and seminars ... this is an unethical (but legal) MLM ... anyone who says it isn't has been influenced (brainwashed) to believe and say it isn;t ... I used to be one of those dreamers ... it is the same as its parent company, AMWAY, only more technologically advanced (online, e-commerce) ... those of you who got out when you did, good for you ... there is not get rich quick scheme, and if you need motivational reading, read the actual holy scriptures ... man's word is often connivng and deceitful, as is Quixtar ... if this company (that means all the people that make up the Quixtar organization)was a noble organization, then there wouldn't be so much negative press and attention on Quixtar ... the sad truth is the people that continues to speak on behalf of Quixtar do not even realize that they have become the robotic voice of the company, while their uplines continue to 'legally' scam money from them and others that are coaxed into the business ... my advice from personal experience as an IBO (now ex-IBO), friends with/of ex-IBOers, relatives of ex-IBOers) is to stay away from Quixtar ... that is if you want to keep what earnings and wealth you have to yourself and your families ... as with all MLM's, those who normally make the money are the ones who get in at the front end, although a select few will come in and rise (ocassionally) ... it is a ripoff in the same sense aas AMWAY ... dteline was 100% correct ... I've been to many seminars and events, and the message from the speakers are exactly as they depicted ... plus if ou were watching and listening to the Dateline segment, you would have seen and heard Fredickson (I may have misspelled that) do the double talk ... only a person tht has been sucked into the QUIXTAR thought process could dismiss that ... believe what you hear and see, QUIXTAR (including all the people) are selling wolf tickets .... keep your money to yourselves, where it will do the most good for you and your family ...
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#25 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Beleive What You See and Hear ... everything in this rip-off-report is true ...

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

I am an ex-IBO with Quixtar ... you will always find two ends of the spectrum on any issue ... I will attempt to provide the factual end (as others have tried to do throughout this commentary) ... first, everything in this rip-off-report is true ... the approach to this MLM is exactly as stated, it is sneaky and underhanded ... the pressure is severely on from your upline to buy cassettes, books, and attend every function ... someone stated in their rebuttal that it ws the people not the company that was misleading; well the people are the company ... if Quixtar was on the up-and-up and honest, why would so many people have been unpleased with their association with this company ... now those individuals who spoke in dfense of Quixtar were quoting exactly what the tapes.books and seminar speakers had embedded in their minds ... as one report stated, they regurgitated everything that any Quixtar upline, dedicated IBO, tape, book, seminar speaker had alreay stated ... Quixtar isn't for everyone, because everyone isn't asa dishonest as Quixtar (the company, the people, both the same) requires/influences people to be ... the products are exceededly more than what can be purchased at a local shopping store, SAMS Club, Cosco's or BJ's ... the products are no more better than the average products that a consumer can purchase from any retail store ... and the people at the top make all the money, because there are so many dreamers out there spending their cash on tapes, books and seminars ... this is an unethical (but legal) MLM ... anyone who says it isn't has been influenced (brainwashed) to believe and say it isn;t ... I used to be one of those dreamers ... it is the same as its parent company, AMWAY, only more technologically advanced (online, e-commerce) ... those of you who got out when you did, good for you ... there is not get rich quick scheme, and if you need motivational reading, read the actual holy scriptures ... man's word is often connivng and deceitful, as is Quixtar ... if this company (that means all the people that make up the Quixtar organization)was a noble organization, then there wouldn't be so much negative press and attention on Quixtar ... the sad truth is the people that continues to speak on behalf of Quixtar do not even realize that they have become the robotic voice of the company, while their uplines continue to 'legally' scam money from them and others that are coaxed into the business ... my advice from personal experience as an IBO (now ex-IBO), friends with/of ex-IBOers, relatives of ex-IBOers) is to stay away from Quixtar ... that is if you want to keep what earnings and wealth you have to yourself and your families ... as with all MLM's, those who normally make the money are the ones who get in at the front end, although a select few will come in and rise (ocassionally) ... it is a ripoff in the same sense aas AMWAY ... dteline was 100% correct ... I've been to many seminars and events, and the message from the speakers are exactly as they depicted ... plus if ou were watching and listening to the Dateline segment, you would have seen and heard Fredickson (I may have misspelled that) do the double talk ... only a person tht has been sucked into the QUIXTAR thought process could dismiss that ... believe what you hear and see, QUIXTAR (including all the people) are selling wolf tickets .... keep your money to yourselves, where it will do the most good for you and your family ...
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#26 Consumer Suggestion

Look Here For Facts

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

You might consider looking for a credible source for facts about this company. There is a website at www.amquix.info that has a Dateline NBC report on the company along with results of research that didn't get on the show. This site has audio files from the "Directly Speaking tapes" by Rich DeVos, co-founder of Amway. There is also audio from Ken McDonald, Managing Director of Quixtar, among others.

There is also information on Amway's cases at the FTC in 1979 and 1986. It also talks about the bill HR1220 in Congress in 2003 which Quixtar supported that would legalize pyramid schemes. There is also information on other lawsuits against Amway and Quixtar as well. If you Google "truth about Quixtar" you will find a lot in interesting information.

It is poor judgment to do business with a company that has a questionable reputation, and permit people who represent them to participate in deceptive business practices.

Here is text from the Directly Speaking tapes:
Directly Speaking, January 1983,
Spoken by Rich DeVos
Amway Cassette Series VA-2160
Well, this is Rich DeVos in Ada, Michigan, coming forth once again to chat a little bit with you, and to share a few ideas, and a little information and some of the things that are going on. The primary purpose to this tape is to communicate to you some of the things that went on at the Diamond Club in Hawaii, and I guess partly to make sure we have the least amount of rumors and the most amount of facts running around as to where we're coming at you from.

I guess another reason to talk to you right now has to do with what we've seen on "60 Minutes" -- what we're seeing on other television programs around the country, and some of the challenges that seem to be coming our way at this time.

At the Diamond Club, I -- referred to them as "warts." Randy Preston said, "Maybe you ought to call them 'blemishes,'" but I do not think that's strong enough. Now let's first of all understand that I am not talking to new Distributors -- this is not a sponsoring meeting -- I am talking to you as Direct Distributors, as the heads of your organizations, as the ones that this company deals with and looks to to carry on the leadership role in this organization. Now I recognize there are other awards, and every award level, by the way, claims that they are the true leadership, but as I told you when I was on the road with you, this Plan gears around the simple fact that every Direct Distributor is in charge of their business, they are the owners of it, they run it and they are the level to which we look to meet the day-to-day responsibilities in the field organization.

So I'm talking to you as the leaders of the organization. I hope you have all due respect for all the people below you and all the people above you, and that's just super. I must emphasize to you, however, that you're the leadership, on a day-to-day in dealing with your organization. Therefore, it's important you know some of these things, and so, maybe we can give 'em to you straight and maybe share some of our concerns with you.

Every since "60 Minutes" appeared, we have been inundated by mail. Both pro and con. I think in all honesty I must tell you that the outside world, the people who are in business, the people who are in government, the people who watch "60 Minutes" quite regularly and critically and have a knowledge of media and so forth -- generally feel we came out very, very well.

Paul Harvey called me the other day and said, "You guys did a great job, I'm proud of ya." And he wanted to call just to congratulate us. The head of a major university's business school, I talked with him yesterday, and (unintelligible) "Boy, you guys did as good as anybody's ever done. I was proud of ya. In fact, I had a bunch of people in just to watch ya, because I knew you'd do well." Well, that's fine, but the inside report from Distributors goes all the way from frustration to outright anger. People who say they distorted us, they didn't show anything good about us, they could do was find a few failures and show the extremes and why did ya pick those people, and why didn't ya pick somebody else -- and all those rumors you got in your mind, and some of those frustrations also.

Well, let me give you the background on "60 Minutes," it might help you a bit. We were first approached a long time ago. We tried to put it off, we told them we didn't think we were a good subject for the show, but they said they were going to do a show, with or without us. And we finally took it upon ourselves to say that if they're going to do it anyway, then we're not going to dodge it -- even if it's a disaster, we're at least going to stand for what we believe and if they don't put our thoughts on the tape, well that's up to them. But we're not going to run from it.

We had no control over the people they used. They took tape from all over the country. They taped people on the West Coast, they taped people on the East Coast and they chose to run the portion they ran. Now, you may not have liked, or I may not have liked it -- it's unimportant. That was their choice. The fact of the matter, however, is that watch you saw is what was being presented at an Amway meeting. And I'm not going to knock it and say it was so bad -- it's just that when you take a little piece out of a big meeting, it can look not as good as you'd like to have it. You know, if you and I sit in a meeting for three or four hours and we hear somebody say a few things like that, we'd applaud. We'd say "Yeah, right on, and soar with the eagles -- why not?" But when ya suddenly see that little section, one minute long, taken out of context and flashed on a screen, it doesn't look quite the same. Does it? When a person stands up and says "I'm going to have a ring for every finger..." You know, I say sometimes at a Direct Distributor meeting where we're on a talk about getting ahead in life and having some of the finer things in life, that sounds pretty good. But when it's on a national television screen, as though it represented all of us, and that all we think about is greed, or money, or rings, or cars, or buses, or whatever, then it doesn't look very good.

Now, let's face it -- you and I know that's not the whole story -- they know it's not the whole story -- and those that don't like us come to their own conclusion. But you see, when you grab thirty seconds or a minute out of a whole meeting, you get a distorted view. That wasn't the whole meeting - there was lot more to the meeting, and probably much more balanced in the meeting, but that isn't what they chose to show, and so it comes off that way.

Now let's, therefore just -- not get excited about it, figure we came out of it 50-50, 60-40. We wish it had been a 15 minute ad but it wasn't. It wasn't all bad, it wasn't all good, but it did show a presentation of how we sometimes look.

Now, we also have got -- some of you know -- some problems in other states with legal authorities, we -- who -- also say we're not saying it right, we're not presenting the Plan correctly, we're overclaiming and understating what'cha have to do.

We have guys in the -- Legal field -- uh, Attorneys General -- who don't like our curiosity approach, and -- and, so we've tried to -- lay before the Diamonds and I'm trying to lay before you and -- and -- really asking for your help. We've got to find a way to make a better image.

You know, one of the reasons we use the curiosity approach is because people have preconceived ideas of what Amway is. You and I know what it really is, but they have a distorted or warped view; and therefore, if they thought they were coming to an Amway function, they would probably say "No" because of their preconceived ideas. Therefore, would we do is use the curiosity approach, but when it's used indirectly, all we do is give a further bad image for the organization. And people begin to say, "What's the matter, are you ashamed of what you're in? Do you have to be tricky, deceitful, lie to get me to come to a meeting? Tell me it's a fund-raiser, tell me it's a -- it's a how to save money on taxes -- it's a social event" -- whatsa matter with you people, what happened to your ethics? And I have to tell you, that what we're running in to. And that's why we're asking for your total help to stamp out the curiosity approach. If you can't use it correct, then don't use it at all. Then invite them to an Amway meeting, and when they tell you they know all about that, then ask them some questions, such as, "If you know all about it, how does the Diamond Bonus work. How does the Emerald bonus work? Do you know how how profit-sharing works." When they say, "No, I don't know that," then you jump right on them and say "You don't know about Amway, you better come to the meeting.

(Unintelligible) . . . that's how you overcome that, but I'd rather have you have to go through that little verbal battle rather to deceive a person and tell them it's not an Amway meeting and then when they get there an hour after they sat down they discover it is an Amway meeting. You know, that's deception, that infuriates people, and that gives this company, and you, a bad image. And so we need your help on some of that stuff, we just got to clean it up.

I get too many letters in here from people who are still being told, "You don't have to sell products, we're in a marketing group, we're just in a marketing outfit. No selling is necessary." Now you know, that's a lie. (Unintelligible) . . . you can't stay in this business and be a liar and expect us to have a decent image, and I need your help.

Those aren't big things, those are just little things, but you know, we're a big company and we no longer can afford to do little things wrong, because everybody's watching what we do, and therefore we got to do even the little things right -- now, I know you're growing up in business and you're -- you're just trying to get business and you don't know all of the legal ramifications, you don't know all the complications, you just do things because you think you're -- you're doing them right, but that's why we insist that you must do them our way, not because you're dumb or inept or a jerk, we ask you to do 'em our way because this is a complicated business and this is a complicated world, and there are certain ways that are right and other ways that are wrong. And I need your help -- when I say, "Do it our way," that not to take your creativity away, it's just that with a million of us out there and each got their own little twist or turn or idea, and they think it's cute, it may be cutely illegal, possibly improper and could be creating a bad image that we were talking about. Now we addressed all that stuff at Diamond Club and I -- I told all the Diamonds I need their help, I'm telling you I need you're help on cleaning up some of these situations.

Now, I got -- as we said -- I got stacks of letters that came in -- I -- I can't tell you how many of people have written. Hundreds and thousands -- and here's -- here's -- just one letter from one dear lady from the East -- and I won't give her name, I didn't do it for that reason, she's talking about "60 Minutes:

"Please don't misunderstand, but a number of people not even in the business stated to me that you did not come out strong enough against the hype, hoopla, exaggerated claims and obvious mixing of born-again, fundamentalist revivalism with business that was shown."

Then she goes on to say:

"I have no idea, of course, why they edited it that way, but, they did."

Now, I can . . . (unintelligible) . . . I can . . . her letter is many pages long, and she told how -- she finally switched groups because she was so tired of that sort of treatment. Still in the business, but still got a bad taste in her mouth.

You know, I got another one over here. And this is the stuff I am receiving, and it comes in the backwash of "60 Minutes." Somebody said:

"I consider myself to be the victim of aggressive Directs and their upline. I got caught in an ambitious and aggressive group."

If this was an exception letter, you guys and gals, I wouldn't beat it at ya. I got too many of 'em, and therefore I'm going to share it with you, although I know that it's a little negative, but I have to get to you, I have to get your attention that we have to do some things to change our image, and we need to the help of all of you.

(Unintelligible) . . . I consider myself to be an -- ambitious, aggressive group. Directs, that was (sic) determined to reach their set goal at the expense of the Distributors, come hell or high water. Their philosophy, "Mortgage your home, cash in your insurance, get a bank loan and borrow from whosoever will loan you.
We were told in our, and I'll leave the name out because it would identify the organization, in our so and so meeting, certain things discussed were to remain within the walls wherein discussed or suggested.

Then the goes on to tell how he was harassed at this job.

Whoever was teaching that, and it was not some little new Direct, was teaching an illegal, immoral, improper system. I can't tolerate it.

You know, we've been talkin' to you for years that you don't buy a position in Amway, you earn it, and, here, blatantly, being taught inside a meeting, and then being told don't tell anybody, are methods that go contrary to everything we've heard.

We've always said you earn your position in Amway and you don't buy it. And here I see it being done, and I want to tell you, we're -- monitoring new Directs, we're monitoring anybody who gets a higher award, we have a whole department today that is monitoring, just because we have some people who got abusive with it.

Now, I just got to lay these things on you, I -- I need your attention, and I -- some of you guys who are doing it is the one (sic) I am talking to. I'm not talking to the rest of you. But some of you continue doing things that we are not going to tolerate, and we are in the process of establishing a whole new policing department in this company, because we have been unable to voluntarily get you to decide to do the things that are right and will improve the image that we have.

Here's another person, and that's the last one I'm gonna read to ya, but she -- she chew me out. And, so -- uh, you know, turn-about's fair play, they say, and I don't doubt that. She said, "I'm painfully aware that I'm very insignificant cog in the big company wheel." But for what it is worth my opinion is that our president, Rich DeVos, for whom I have the greatest respect, is now obligated to bite the bullet and act on his own voiced beliefs. I recall two of the very impressive statements which punctuates (sic) my point.

The first is a quote from a 1965 recording of the "Four Winds," where he told the Junior Achievers, "Before you go out to clean up the world, you had better learn how to clean up your own room." Boy, how's that for having' it thrown back at you?

And how right it is, and how right-on it is, that a person would do that.

She goes on to say -- I had another quote, which I put on a tape right after the Manifesto came out: "If we are allowed to pick and choose the rules by which we will abide, and ignore the others, then we have chaos."

Wow, that's a direct quote, from another person. As I told you, they come in by the stacks. I take 'em home by the pile at night, and just sit there are read through them, wishing I could answer all of them, but many of them carry this message, that we've got some things to do.

Well, that's partly what we addressed when we were in Hawaii. By the way, I do have one more here, I see it on the bottom of my list, and . . . and he's gettin' on my case, he says, "You gotta do something to change this image of this company." Well, I wish I could tell you that we're gonna buy Bob Hope, and he's gonna be on television, he's going to be sponsored by Amway, and that that's gonna change it. Well, it's not going to change it. It will help, 'cause he's willing to come on the line for Amway and talk about Amway -- you'll love the ads, by the way, they're great, and it will get to a lot of people.

There's only one thing we can do the change the image, you've got to do some things about the way we are conducting ourselves in this business to correct them. Therefore, what I got down to at the Diamond Club, by the way, and this sort of fell out afterwards, you know -- one of the things that we announced at the Diamond Club -- and it -- Amway has been working for three years on the matter of how to cope with the tape business. Should the company get in it, should it stay out of it, how far should it get in it, should it have -- uh, uh -- dollar amounts paid to certain levels, pin levels -- should it -- should it -- have BV -- shouldn't it have -- we have just put it off all these years.

But you know, we finally concluded, and that's what I announced at Diamond Club, that we are going to put BV on tapes. By the ways, our tapes in the United States will sell for $2.50 and in Canada they'll be $2.95, we will pay full BV -- now understand, no PV -- so you'll get the Business volume. The reason for that is a very simple one, so that you get the Point Value out of this business by doing your regular Amway business. However, because of the cost of doing some of the motivational materials and handling tapes, you can get business volume on it.

In other words, you can't make Direct by selling tapes. You make Direct by selling the regular line Amway products, but you will get Business Volume on the other. Now, from our standpoint, that's the kind of a simple things, you know, that's absolutely consistent with the Plan, it awards everybody fairly in relationship to what they do in it, it protects the upline, it protects the downline, and it was kind of a simple thing.

Uh -- primary reason was because we got a lot of people in this business who don't have a tape program and they're saying, "Why don't you put something out; that's legal and proper," and we finally said fine. We're going to put out legally clear tapes that give it straight, and that you can rely on, we're going to put them out at a price we think it right, we'll put a little BV on 'em so that you recover some of the costs, and -- we have a little hooker in there, by the way -- the BV on tapes can never exceed twenty percent of your total Business Volume. Now, I haven't figured out what to do if you go to twenty-one percent, but we will, we may just not pay you on it -- because when your tape volume becomes so great in relationship to your regular business, then you are no longer in the Amway business -- you're in the tape business.

Now, the tape business, if it is not used as a support for the Amway business, will oftentimes be an illegal business -- in fact, it could be called a pyramid -- because, d -- does not get sold to the consumer. Which means that all the tape business does is take money out of the organization, and because the final person can't retail it, it never brings money into the organization. Now, I'm not arguing about the value of it -- we accept the fact that motivation is vital to this business. Good, honest motivation is important to the business. But, it must be motivation that builds the business -- not become a business in itself.

And some of you have made it a business unto itself. And you're making a lot of money on it, and all I'm saying to you, well, I can't tell you whether you can or you can't, I can't tell you whether it's legal or illegal, I'm not checking on your business right now. But we have to provide an alternative to the Direct Distributor in this business in a fair and legal and honest manner as a support device for the main business. And so we decided to put BV on tapes.

We really didn't think it was a big deal. I was a little surprised, and I am surprised today to the reaction of some people to our doing this. (Unintelligible) . . . "You're cutting into my tape business, you can't do that." Listen, we've been putting out motivational materials in this company for 23 years. We've been putting out tapes longer than anybody in the business. The mere fact that we decide to put BV on it is a corporate decision, we make corporate decisions everyday to make a product a sales aid, or to put it in BV. We do those things everyday. So our doing this was not a big deal from the corporate standpoint, and so we're a little surprised. We never really considered it being confrontational, we considered it as a way to take care of all the good, Direct Distributors in this business and letting him share in some of the dollars in it, for motivation, as long as it didn't get out of control and become their main business, and that's why the controls are placed in it.

I really find it hard for anybody to argue with Amway putting some profit in tape -- uh -- for the Direct Distributors -- uh -- even though I've gotten some of that reaction, but that's a whole subject, and -- I just, we just dropped the tape thing there, and -- and we'll move on to the -- the bigger picture, you know, the bigger thing -- by the way, that's effective March 1, and uh, you'll be getting price lists and notifications on it, and those of you that don't have a good tape program or any tape program it's -- we think we're going to begin to offer you a good program you can offer to your organization in balance to motivate your people, uh -- I'm not trying to push them, I'm not trying to jam 'em at ya -- I'm just saying that if you feel there is a need for more tapes in your group for motivational reasons, we're going to have some available. Uh, and so -- uh -- we don't call it a program or a system, we just are adding BV to our tapes and going to expand our tape library to better serve those of you that have a need for such a thing.




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Side B

Another upshot of everything else, therefore, at the Diamond Club, and all the discussion, led me to challenge the Diamonds, and I -- I want to challenge you with 'em today. I may have sounded a little angry to you. I'm not really angry. I'm just -- I'm concerned. I -- I am vitally concerned about the image that this Company is portraying. And I think we've got some bad actors in this business, and you know we have. And I am imploring all of you to do two things. Number one, clean up your act. And number two, if you know people who are continuing to do things improperly after all of this, then I want you to write us a note and just tell us who's doing it. Don't -- I don't need 419's right now. I just want to know so we can track the improper ones: And if we find somebody is cross-grouping, and if somebody's coming to you and asking you to buy their system or their tape program, then you let us know, 'cause that's cross-grouping. And just put it in a letter.

Say, "so-and-so came in to see me today to try to get me to sell their stuff." And, you see, then we can put a quick track on anybody who is violating one of the basic principles of this organization. And we'll begin to spot them; and we'll get to them. And then we can take our action from there. But we need your help on getting us some of that information. But, more than that, we need your help in making sure the way you're doing it is proper in your own group.

These are the ten things I put before the Diamonds, and let me just put 'em before you. I asked the Diamonds, by the way, that if they agreed with these Ten Points to write me a letter or to stick it on the note pad that was in front of them in the meeting room. All they had to say to me was, "Rich, I agree with you. We support those Ten Points, and we will teach them to our people. And, you know, I received such letters from almost everybody who was there. Not everybody, but I did receive them from most of the Diamonds. So I have them in my file, and I know who has pledged their support to uphold these things. And while we're not in a meeting and I can't ask you exactly the same thing in the same way, to hand it to me when the meeting's over with, and scribble it on a piece of paper, if you feel so inclined, you might want to write a note and say, "Rich, I support your Ten Points, and I'm gonna uphold them in our group, and I'm gonna teach them to our people and see if we can't clean up our business so we can present a better image to the world." So, I'm not -- I'm not necessarily going to take a role call on it, but if you feel that way, sometimes, you know, it helps your own commitment, and it might make you feel a little better to let us know where you stand. Just say, "I am with you." Just stick it on a postcard. I don't care. Just say, "Rich, I stand with you on the Ten Points," and we can go from there.

Now, here they are. They're not very complicated, but they do get down to some of the nitty-gritty, and I'll explain them to you as I go.

Number One: I will unplug from any group, up or down, which is not in my line of sponsorship.
You know, a lot of you, got your fingers dirty. You got your hands a little bit into somebody else's group, or you're dealing into somebody else's group that's not in your line of sponsorship, or you're getting stuff from somebody. I'm just asking you to unplug it. Tend to your own business; stay in your own line; deal only with the people you sponsor. The other people are not in your group; they are not your business; and if you are a believer in this Plan, then you'll believe in the principle. If it's okay for you to intrude somebody else's group, then it's okay for them to intrude yours. If it's okay for you to intrude somebody else's group; then it's okay for somebody above you to go around you and intrude your distributors below you. You and I know you can't tolerate that. We can't stand it, and you've got to agree to stand on it. If you do, send me a note. I know, there are some old, historical associations. Some of you had 'em goin' back ten years. I'm not going to come running over and try and police it; but I'm saying you should start to think in terms of unplugging and gettin' your act cleaned up.
Number Two: I will only use Amway-produced literature in the presentation of the Plan and will use only the figures Amway gives.
We have a major lawsuit going right now with an attorney general in one of the states based on people making what they say are excess claims and telling people they hardly have to work at all, telling them you can make $50,000.00 a year and you only have to work twelve hours a week. Now, you and I both know, you know; that -- that just can't be put up with. And, therefore, I have a very simple statement to you: Don't create numbers of your own. You use the numbers and the literature we give you, and nobody else's. You don't have any tapes in your group to teach you how to present the Plan other than the one Amway has. That's what I mean by following Rule Two.
Number Three: I will not make my willingness to help a distributor conditioned on their purchasing my Tape of the Week or anything else I sell, which is beyond the basic Amway-supplied material.
I tell you why that's in there. I got too many letters from people who have told me that they were told that if they didn't support their upline and buy his or her tapes, then they would not give them any help. I can't put up with that. It is a sponsor's responsibility to train, motivate and supply their people. That's for the privilege of being the sponsor; not whether they buy some extra things you've decided to sell. If you have people in your group that you don't want, then let us know and we'll reassign them to somebody else; because if you're unwilling to take care of them because you are willing to sponsor them, then let me know. There are no conditions on servicing distributors. All of your distributors are serviced the best you know how, whether they buy a tape of the Week from you or not.
Number Four: If I offer tapes, books and rallies, they will always be presented on a voluntary basis. No strings, no pressure, and no force.
And by 'force' I mean such as saying to somebody in your group that "You must take ten tickets. You must take a hundred tickets. Here's your hundred tickets. Pay me for 'em. You better get rid of 'em. We're going to fill this hall. Or saying, "You must subscribe to Tape of the Week, or I won't work with you." That's force. You know, you offer these things, but you do that voluntarily. If you do it that way, fine. It doesn't diminish your willingness to work with them. Pure, voluntary use of support materials. By the way, you ought to be very careful, because the moment you do anything more than what I am saying to you to do, which is voluntarily offer them, you are going to run the risk of having an employer/employee relationship. That's the last thing you need.
Number Five: If I teach the curiosity approach, it will be in accordance with Rule Six, as passed out at the end of the meeting.
Well, I can't pass it out to you today, but Rule Six really says if you're going to use curiosity, you must tell them they are coming to a business-type opportunity meeting. You may not tell 'em it's a social event or a coffee or a church event or a fund-raising event or a how-to-save-money-on-taxes event. All that is deception. You must tell 'em it's a business opportunity meeting. If they ask you if it's Amway, you say 'yes.' That's what the Rule says. If I were doing it, I would say to people ahead of time, and I wanted to use curiosity, "I'm not going to tell you what it is, but I want you to come." If they said to me, "If that's the way it is, I'm not going to come," I'd say, "Well, fine, then, say home: You spent all your life telling me that you wanted to get ahead, you weren't happy with your conditions in life, you don't like your job; and now I ask you if you'll give me two hours to come and hear about something and you tell me you're not going to come. (inaudible) stay home." See? Don't beg people. Finally, you get down to challenging them to come or not come.
Number Six: I will not produce any literature or tapes about the Plan or the products.
I know you present the Plan magnificently, but what you don't always know are the fine points that we have to cover in all fifty states, plus satisfying the government, to make sure we say it exactly right. And that's why we cannot permit you to produce any such materials.
Number Seven: I will not hide behind group names.
We are proud of our group and like our own identity, but we will not use it as a subterfuge to say we are not in Amway. This really is a hot one, folks. People are saying, "Oh, we're in X-Y-Z organization. We're not in Amway." If you are signed on an Amway application form and if you have anyone you sponsor who's linked to you, then you are in Amway. I don't care what other name you want to run under: By implication, you are saying you're not in Amway: If you are asked, then you must say, "I am in Amway." And if you're not willing to say that, then don't send me any letters.
Number Eight: We will work together to build our own businesses while creating an organization that truly cares about every distributor in it. We will talk about the big picture -- no problem -- while making sure we do not diminish those who choose to do less or make them feel like losers.
I hear that very often. "There's winners and losers. Are you a winner? Are you a loser?" Almost insulting people who don't sign up. You even got bad terminology. "We're the winners. Over here are the losers in life." They're not losers. They may have a richer, fuller life than those of you that got fancy cars and new clothes or big rings have got. You know, they -- Life is not geared by materialism. You do not decide who's a winner or a loser. There's too -- Life is too complicated for that. We must make sure we always speak of everybody being a winner, even though they may have different goals. My plea here is that when you have a program, you make sure you have people on there who are making $100.00 and thrilled with it, as well as those who make more. Present it as a plan so that everybody can realize their goal, whatever it is.
Number Nine: While recognizing the importance of financial goals, we will attempt to use tact, t-a-c-t, and dignity so as not to create an image of just money, money, money. Together we will create an organization, which loves and cares for each distributor, regardless of level, and an organization which will be of service in our communities.
I don't mind you're making money. I don't mind your enjoying the things that money will buy. But I do have a problem of presenting an image of an organization that has nothing in it but greed, that has no concern for the poor or the hungry or for what's going an in their community. It is time, folks, we changed our image and showed an image of a company and of individuals who care about other people, no matter where they are economically. And that while you may want to quietly talk about your new cars or your fancy rings, you also talk to people about the other values that the Amway business brings, such as the wonderful idea of being associated with people who are positive, the great and good things that happen by -- by making an extra $100.00 a month, the fun of -- of being in an organization that is in a positive frame of mind. All the other, little things we don't talk about: the joy of bringing up our children in an atmosphere of positive thinking; you know, have our kids hang around people -- the joy of having our kids see something else other than the back yards of their neighbors' houses and never get more than fifty miles out of town, to be able to open your children's minds to music and to the arts. All of that is what we got to talk about, not just whether we're making some more money.
And Number Ten: I agree with the principle and will observe the rules relating to PV/BV transfers. We will do all we can to make sure no PV/BV is transferred to anyone who did not honestly buy it and who was complying with the seventy percent rule.
In other Words, I need a pledge that you will not inventory load, that you will not push a bunch of stuff on somebody to win a pin or to earn a trip; but that they will, indeed, have not only bought the Amway products, but have, in turn, sold them so that they got retail and the money came back in. In direct contrast to what I read to you in a letter earlier, "go out and borrow the money to make it." I could tell you horror stories about every company I've ever lived with and fought against, who did inventory loading, asking people to borrow money to make a pin level. We have watched at least a hundred such companies come, and we have watched all of them go; and they are all broke and long gone. We cannot tolerate this business. We must stick to the principle that the people we hang pins on did so because they built a strong, Amway-centered business, built on what they did conforming with the rules of rewarding people on the basis of performance, not on the basis of their ability to beg, borrow or steal money.
Well, that's quite a Directly Speaking tape. Heavy? Well, maybe. But, you know, folks, this is a serious time. What you saw on "60 Minutes" was probably not all to your liking; it was not to mine. But the beautiful part of it is that Mike Wallace, when he was here, said, "You know, this is the most phenomenal thing." He was intrigued with the lives we were touching and the things we were doing. He was intrigued with the motivation, the lifting up, the spirit of the people. He was convinced; when he went to shoot those pictures at that meeting in North Carolina, that he would find nothing but Bible-belt Baptists, all white, only to find blacks and Jews from New York City, all mixed in. He said, "We couldn't believe it. This was a cross-section of America, people trying to get ahead, and we were impressed." Well, they may not have shown that in their programming, but, you see, we know that they could have done a lot worse for us. And, so, we're grateful to them for showing us our warts and for helping us to remind ourselves that we got to "clean up our own room," as the one lady wrote and placed it so well. That if we are really going to go out and impact this world, we got to do it with clean hands. And right now, some of you have got to ask yourself these ten questions. Some of you have got to ask yourself whether you're really in the Amway business or whether you're in the tape business. You got to ask yourself whether you're really in the rally business or in the Amway business. You must ask yourself if everything you're doing is to support your Amway business or is it really for a secondary motive. We are, of course, a little prejudiced. But, you see, it is the Amway Plan that you run under, and we really cannot tolerate people running under the Amway Plan and then doing such things that destroy the image of all other Amway distributors.

And, so, we're off and running. We're on to the subject, and I hate to confront you with it. But I think for most of you, you'll recognize that if we aren't careful with our image, some day it'll be so bad, you won't be able to sponsor anybody. And then there won't be any sense in talking about it anymore. But right now, this night, at the meetings you have today, with the people with whom you talk today, is the time to make sure you present the Plan as a plan that offers opportunity geared on hard work and that you approach people honestly and straight-forward and don't try to deceive them, and then you don't try to push stuff on your nice distributors because you make money on it when it may or may not be totally necessary for them.

I know some of the tapes are magnificent. I know they're important, and I know rallies are important, and I know books are important. I know all that's important -- all important within balance. Out of balance, it can destroy us.

And so, we're on the road. Thanking you again for a great year and thanking you ahead of time for your cooperation because it is my belief that each one of you, when you realize what's really going on in this business, will say, "Rich, you're right. I'm with you. We do got to clean up our act. And it isn't just in the other guy's group. I got some stuff to do with my own group." And if all of us will take that to heart right now, we will begin to build the new Amway, based on sponsoring people in a very simple, straight-forward manner, to join the fastest-growing, most magnificent outfit in the world that offers people at the bottom of the rung a chance to make a beginning. And we will focus our attention on selling products.

Expo is just hitting the road. It will be in Atlanta next week for its opening thing.

Dick, my son Dick, and Roger just came back from Cleveland where they built it; and they said it is absolutely magnificent; it is going to stun them when they see this new traveling show. We have two new semi's that are traveling across the country, carrying this from city to city. Bring every customer you get. In fact, go get ten of your friends who think you're nuts for being in Amway. Invite 'em over for dinner and say, "We're going to go to the Amway Expo." Or tell 'em you're going to take 'em out to show 'em the Amway Expo and

[page of transcript missing]

So we'll be in touch with you. We'll see you all, and thanks for being great people.

This is Rich in Ada with great gratitude for all of you. Bye-bye.




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CERTIFICATE



STATE OF OHIO )
) SS:
COUNTY OF HAMILTON )


I, KATHLEEN M. McCLELLAN, a Court Reporter and Notary
Public for the State of Ohio, commissioned and qualified, do
hereby certify that the foregoing twenty-nine (29) pages
constitutes a true, correct and complete transcript of Directlv
Speaking, Rich De Vos, Amway Cassette Series VAL-2l50, which was
transcribed by me and/or under my direction.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and
notarial seal at Cincinnati, Ohio, this 29th day of March, 1985.

Directly Speaking, Date Unknown
(probably Feb. or March 1983),
Spoken by Rich DeVos
Amway Cassette Series VA-2160
sounds/directly_speaking_II.zip Directly Speaking II - side A in .mp3 (3.6Megs) Directly Speaking II - side B in .mp3 (2.6Megs)

Side A

Well, here we are again in Ada, Michigan, and this is Rich. You might not know it, but today is my birthday. It's the 4th day of March, and I'm 57; so you won't have to spend a lot of time discussing it. And since it's the second Directly Speaking tape dealing with some of the real challenges that this organization faces right now, I thought maybe we ought to kind of get back to some fundamentals a little bit and then see if we really can't answer a lot of the questions that have come to me.

My mailbag, since the last Directly Speaking tape, has been very heavy. Many, many of you have written letters, saying, "It's about time," "Thank goodness," "Hallelujah," and a few other joyful expressions. My desk became piled high with people saying, "I support you in your Ten Points." And if you haven't written such a letter and you feel that way, I'd still urge you to write it. We are down to a point of trying to find out who really supports this Amway program; and, if after listening to the last Directly Speaking tape you felt like you wanted to stand and yell and say, "We stand with you," and never bothered to write, it's important that you do.

Let me just see if I can't reiterate a few of the important things that I think are facing us right now, some principles that are involved. And it is, of course, the reason that I am writing, or, why I'm talking to you, as -- as Direct Distributors.

Someplace along the line, we lost sight of the fact that the Direct Distributor is the operating head of their organization. All due respect to the upline. I don't care who they are; I don't care what pin level they are. Many of you have heard me talk over and over again about the fact that if your sponsor did nothing more than tell you about Amway, they opened a door of opportunity for you; but only you can walk through it. And those of you that I'm talking to today are Direct Distributors; you took the challenge; you walked through that door, and you became a Direct Distributor in the world of Amway. In our book, that makes you the head, the star the outstanding performer, who, unlike many others who looked at it and listened and either turned it down or did nothing with it, you did, and you are to be commended.

I'm disturbed, because I find too many people are putting Directs down and saying, Oh, what are you? "You don't know enough," a Diamond's where it's at. And you know, it's true; we have a lot of awards at Diamond. But we decided a long time ago in this company that Direct Distributor is where it's at. After all, a Diamond is only a person who has six Direct Distributors, and a double Diamond is one who has twelve; but this whole Plan revolves around the leadership of the Direct Distributor. And that's, of course, why we're talking to you.

I'd like to get through some of the kind of negative stuff that's come on my desk, also. As I told you, I've a lot of positive responses. I also have a lot of horror stories, stories that must have been swept under the rug or hid behind the curtains, that should have been brought to our attention a long time ago -- and I know, in some of the cases, they were brought to our attention, and we did nothing about it; and I apologize to you for that. Maybe we overlook some things, maybe we are blind and maybe we swept some things under the rug, too, and thought it would just sort of go away. Only some of these things did not go away; they just got worse.

And, so let me see, now, if I can just take some of the questions that you've sent to me, some of them in anger, very mad at us for doing a simple thing, like putting BV on tapes. None of us here ever realized that we would cause to come out in the open all that has now come forward; but I must assure you that now that it is out in the open, we have no alternative but to move forcefully and directly on all the things that are now before us here. We cannot turn our back. We cannot sweep it under the rug. We must deal with it; and deal with it, we will. And we are developing the resources inside this company to attack it on a one-by-one basis.

One of the complaints that we received was, "Why do you always act as though we are all guilty when it's only some who are guilty? Why don't you praise the rest of us?" And, you know, I think that's a marvelous idea; and I do try to praise you. I -- I would praise you now for being who you are and where you are. But, you see, it's sort of like trying to find out where the problem is, only you don't know where the problem is; and, so, you sort of have to swing wide. And, in the process, yes, indeed, you do sometimes harm those you really should be loving. But I also found out that in the past, when we have done work to resolve specific problems and we didn't tell everybody about it, we got accused of not doing anything.

So, on the one hand, if I talk openly to all of you about some of the challenges, I am accused of painting everybody with a broad brush and making them feel quilty. On the other hand, if I don't talk to you openly about all of these problems, great numbers of you think we are doing nothing. And, therefore, as adults, as leaders of the business, which is what you are, as the operating heads, as the responsible party, we must share with you the problems of the business, as well as the challenges and the joys of the business. And, I guess, I must trust that you are big enough to cope with both of those; so that on the one hand, you don't get all bent out of shape because there are problems in the business and lose your excitement for it, and on the other hand, that you don't get carried away with your own power and greatness if we don't challenge you with some of these issues. So, I don't want you to get to where it goes to your head; and, by the same token, I -- I don't want to put you down; but I feel all of you must know what is happening, so that you can react intelligently to it. If you don't know what the problem is, sometimes you don't even know when you're being done in; and you should know some of those things that are happening... And so, we'll kind of lay it on you.

Let me take some of the kind of nasty ones first. They kind of come in groups, by the way. You can always tell when some person in the business -- perhaps in a leadership position -- has called together his Directs and given them the word, because a whole bunch of letters or telegrams come in; and they all say exactly the same thing. And, so, my first reaction to those kinds -- and I have a little stack of those in front of me is that obviously these people never thought the problem through. They are mouthing what somebody else has told them to say, and they run along the line like this: "What happened to your trust?" I don't know if I can trust you anymore," "You put BV on tapes," "You cause me great concern." Maybe -- let me read you one. "Disturbed by Directly Speaking tape. Lacks mutual trust and respect. Need two-way communication. Consider bonus increase at level price to cover inflated building cost at distance." Interesting. I don't have one of those; I have several of them. They go in a slightly different vain; but they're all saying, "You broke your trust when you put BV on tapes."

Well, let's just talk about trust a little bit. How can we be accused of breaking trust when all we did was do what they are asking us to do in the next sentence, put some more money in the Plan? You know, the first sentence says, "You've broken your trust;" the second sentence, "Put more money in the Plan." You know, you shouldn't have sent the telegram. We just did; we put more money in the Plan for the Direct Distributor and everybody who earns BV. Now, how can that break trust? I can see where, if we had decided to eliminate a bonus, to remove items from BV and ask you to handle them without anything, that you could accuse us of such a thing. I don't see how I can possibly be accused of breaking trust when we have, indeed, enriched the Plan and exactly in the form in which the Plan has always operated, which is a principle I think those who have written such telegrams have forgotten.

This Plan was geared around the sharing of the opportunity with everybody in the line of sponsorship. I think what some are saying to me is that we had a nice system that shared it with only certain, selected people in the Plan; we split the money amongst the Diamonds and the Emeralds; we didn't give it to anybody else. Trust? Whose trust? Whose trust was betrayed? All those good sponsors who brought you all those other people who were walked over, stepped on and bypassed? Do they deserve your trust? And then to question whether we should be trusted, who have protected the Plan, is really an insult to me.

I am further fascinated, by the way, with this whole idea of "put more money in the Plan, but don't raise the prices." I've heard that, you know, for a long time. I guess, what that says to me, from a person who hasn't thought it through, "Give us more. Take it out of the company's coffers; but don't charge more to the customer." Sounds good, doesn't it? Sounds like the same kind of a problem that got the automotive industry in trouble; like the same kind of a problem that got the steel company in trouble; like the same kind of problems that have seen businesses go down the drain forever, which is, "Oh, just raise the prices; give us more money." No way, folks. There just is no way to continue to pay people more money for doing the same amount of work.

In one of the telegrams, it said, "But we have to travel great distances." Oh, do you? Who said you have to travel great distances? Who said you have to go from one side of this country to the other to sponsor someone? You know, Jay and I started in this business in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We built our business in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We lived off the volume we generated in this town. We lived with the people we sponsored; we lived with the ones who chose not to be sponsored. But we developed a reputation in our own community of operating an honorable business, and we were able to sponsor people in this town regularly. And when, finally, others developed in leadership roles in our Nutralite business, we went fifty miles away to Lansing, Michigan, or we went to Holland, Michigan, or we went to Detroit, a hundred and fifty miles away. And I remember driving those nights; I remember coming out of Detroit after a midnight meeting and driving home because it saved the twenty bucks of a hotel room, and we did it every week, year in and year out. We didn't talk about suites; we just wondered where there was a cheap hotel to stay in.

You know, folks, it's time we got back to the fundamentals of this business. There is no way to put a lot of money in this Plan, other than a very simple one. I can show you how to double your income; and that is by doubling your volume. Somebody says, "Put an extra one percent in at all levels." And those who don't know should know that a one percent payout in the Plan at least is a four percent increase at the retail level. And somebody glibly says, "Put some more money in at every level." Do you think Direct Distributors are going to do flipflops over getting twenty-six percent instead of twenty-five? I don't think so. But I can show 'em how to get an extra fifty or sixty percent if they'll get out and sell some merchandise. I guess if I'd been told all these years you don't have to sell the product, all you have to do is wholesale it to people, then I guess maybe I wouldn't pay any attention to pricing, either. But that's an illegal business. And those of you that preach it and foster it and talk about it are operating illegally. I don't know how often I have to tell you that. I don't know how long I have to keep insisting that you talk upon people retailing the product and gaining customers and servicing them faithfully, only to have some of you just throw it up in the air and say, "That's not our way. We don't teach that method." I got to tell you, you're running the wrong method. You see, once you'd accept the fact that you must sell the product at retail to have an honest business, then you suddenly are very concerned about the pricing of the product. And once you understand that, you don't just glibly say, "Oh, take it out of the corporate coffers; just raise the price a little bit;" because those dollars do not exist there.

Somebody says, "You guys make a lot of money." That's right. And when you have a billion dollar a year business, you'll make a lot of money. But I'll tell you, We didn't make a lot of money by operating a hundred thousand dollar a year business and seeing how we could suck it dry. We built a billion dollar a year business. And when you work towards getting products retailed at that level, I'll tell you, we'll make money in this business. The problem is, some of you are trying to figure out how to make a lot of money without gettin' the volume that you need.

Somebody said, "I want to make more money." Let me tell you how. I don't have an extra one percent for you. I got an extra fifty-five to sixty-five percent for you. I'll tell you, folks, you can't beat that. But some of you have got a warped viewpoint of what makes a business operate; and once you get back to the idea that your business will grow in direct relationship to your ability to retail products, then you'll overcome the biggest mental handicap you have right now. And, maybe -- Let me tell you something. Maybe it's time you trusted the old, fifty-seven year old man instead of some people who been in this business a few years and have never worked it at the fundamental level, and they're telling you all about it. Well, let me tell you, maybe they don't know all about it. And I'll make some more comments about that as I go along:

The other question always comes up, you know, and it's -- it's a -- it's a good question: "Why didn't you bring it to the Board?" And maybe as I develop that theme for you a little bit you'll catch on to a few other things and maybe there'll be some applications to your own operations that you better start to think very seriously about.

Here's one of those letters: "We thought we voted on the Board to represent us." Well, you voted for people on the Board to do certain things and, indeed, to represent you and, indeed, to present your viewpoints and, indeed, to bring your opinions to us on all legal issues. But, whoever told you, and all those of you who say, "It should have come to the Board," whoever told you that doesn't know the law. Oh, they're experts. But they're -- You know, it's like a -- like this old, western cowboy used to say, you know -- He used to say, "All of us are ignorant, only on different subjects."

Now, you know, this is a very complex business world we live in, so let me put it to you real fast and straight. The Board is, indeed, an organization that represents your viewpoints. It indeed does visit with us on this business. But some of your so-called experts, who are telling you that it should have gone to the Board, don't know, is that for this company to discuss with the Board pricing on any product is a federal offense. It is known as price fixing. And we have a little experience with that and the FTC, by the way, that maybe your leader didn't tell you about or he forgot about it.

Maybe you've been reading in the papers lately about the president of a major airline, who casually said to his competitor, "Why don't you raise your prices twenty percent, and I'll raise mine?" And he has now been charged with a federal crime. Simple little statement. And, so, whoever told you that you must insist we bring it to the Board doesn't know what they're talking about.

But, you know, there's problems beyond that one. Let me just bring up another little side issue for you, and not too incidental. Some of you are screaming at us on the twenty percent. Some of you self-righteously say, "Oh, we have less than twenty percent in tapes and books and side issues in our other business." The Amway Corporation does in excess of a billion. If we only did ten percent -- not just in books and tapes; but let's talk about rallies and all the other things we tell our people to pay for; put it all together.

Let's assume we're taking out a hundred million dollars a year. We have placed a maximum on tapes and books at two hundred million that we would allow. I don't know what you might allow. But when you get into those kinds of numbers, if you want to hear a scandal, just read about it in the papers. You present wonderful numbers on the blackboard about all the money they can make. Maybe you ought to tell them about all you're going to take from them before they make any. Maybe that would be the rest of the story. But, you see, those are fantastic numbers. Our legal people tell us, "Boy, if it gets over ten percent!" Finally, they agreed, that maybe somewhere between ten and twenty is acceptable. Maybe that would be considered reasonable by governmental authorities. We assume it will be. We really hope it never gets to those numbers.

We didn't start out with BV on tapes to get to those numbers. We didn't start out with it to capture the market. We put it in, by the way, to be a competing force and to draw your attention to the kind of potential abuse that we thought was there, which we now know is there, with a kind of power and pressure I never believed; and I am not going to take all afternoon to read you the horror stories of the people who say, "I'm connected with such and such a system. I have $8,000 worth of their tapes in my basement. They will not take them back," and the others who were told to mortgage their houses, cash in their life insurance, told to go to the bank to borrow because this big weekend seminar was so important. Well, that's extracting money.

Let me talk to you about the legal side, beyond price fixing, that deals with pyramids, that deals with the illegal operation of a business that does not have an end consumer, where the product is not retailed. That would include all books and tapes. The sad news, folks, is that when those things go out that way and they become excessive, beyond my ten or twenty percent theoretical guideline, hopefully acceptable, to where it's a reasonable support system, but not beyond the reasonable element, then it becomes an out and out illegal pyramid. Why BV on tapes? That's why. It was time to bring some reasonableness to all of this. We also didn't take it to the Board, by the way, because we didn't really want to put a Board member on the spot. We have Board members who operate pretty big systems. It would have been a kind of an embarrassment to put him in the crossfire; so we just decided not to even discuss it at that level. Despite the fact that it would have been illegal to do so, we just decided it would have been the wrong place to talk about it, because we had to move to tend to some of the problems that I've just been discussing with you.

Well, let me pause a minute and look through my grab bag of mail a minute and see if I can't find if what -- a few other good examples for you and then plead with you to do some very simple things. It's time to get on track. That's all. It's time to do some very simple things, and they are ail outlined in the Ten Points that I gave you in last month's tape. And if you haven't listened to it, listen to it again; because there's no sense in my going all through it now. But, in truth, those Ten Points embody all the elements of what we want to talk about.

And, now, let me give you some of the other expressions that I've received and -- without trying to be negative on it; just trying to touch the high points here. Here's a little list. I'll kind of run through some of 'em. "You just want the tape business, you greedy monster." That's a great question, isn't it? I really don't want the tape business. As I told you before, if the tape business becomes a big business, I'm going to have to cut it down to size. I'm going to have to restrict it. I don't want it to be a big business. I want it to be exactly what it should be; and that is a reasonable, economical, for the industry better support system to the [selling] and sponsoring in the Amway Plan. That's all I want.

If the tape business becomes substantial and earns substantial dollars, I have a couple of choices, one of which is to lower the prices; because we want to keep it at a reasonable level. Why? Because the goal of Amway has always been one, and that is to give the average guy on the street, who's scared to death of his mother-in-law, a chance to make a new beginning. That's the principle. We didn't start this business to see what we could take from him. We started this business to see what we could help them achieve; and I'm afraid some of you got the business backwards. I'm not sure some of you are in the Amway business. You really don't care whether that guy achieves. You like to think you do. You give me long letters about how -- I got one here, and, you know, it says, "Before I got in using tapes" my business was so much. Now that I'm using tapes, it's doubled." Now I'm a Diamond, and I have done so well; and it's all because of the tapes." I -- I'm -- I'm glad it -- it worked for you, Diamond. I'm proud of you. Why don't I have a hundred thousand Diamonds if all it takes is the tapes? Why, it's so easy. Just give 'em the tapes, and they're Diamonds next week. Or does it take four years? Who you kidding? Who's been telling you that stuff? Do the tapes help? Sure, they help. Do meetings help? Sure, they help. Are they the answer between winning and losing? No, they are not.

Our achievement numbers haven't changed at all with this tremendous burden of systems. I and you cannot prove an any higher ratio of achievement than you had before. Are they better people for it? Possibly. Is it a good way of communication? Absolutely. Does it help get good ideas through the organization quickly and effectively? You bet your life it does. And, therefore, it is a helpful device.

Don't get me wrong. Don't say I said tapes were bad. I have never said tapes were bad, because we sold 'em long before you did. We think they're a super means of communication. Do I have a problem with big meetings and rallies? Lands no. I was putting on big meetings and rallies before some of you ever got out of your diapers. I made speeches on that stuff thirty years ago, before huge meetings. Some of you act like that's all new stuff. That's not new stuff. It's only a question of how you operate it and where you price it and whether the people feel it's worth it. And I've got to tell you, you got to review that carefully. And a little competition will help keep you in line, too.

Side B

We11, let's try another one, since I am so greedy. "Why didn't you do it sooner? Why do it now? It will be devisive." Now, those are good questions. We been lookin' at it for three or four years. Three years ago we talked about it. Some of you sent letters, said, "Why don't you put BV on tapes?" I can remember some of you guys who were in big tape programs begging us to put BV on tapes years ago. We considered it. We kept thinking the problem would go away. We thought competition between the people and the field would keep the pricing down. But it didn't work that way.

There was a subtle pressure put into this organization that I never felt would exist. I watch people being intimidated, threatened, coerced, scared. My mail has got in it letters from p
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#27 Consumer Suggestion

Look Here For Facts

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

You might consider looking for a credible source for facts about this company. There is a website at www.amquix.info that has a Dateline NBC report on the company along with results of research that didn't get on the show. This site has audio files from the "Directly Speaking tapes" by Rich DeVos, co-founder of Amway. There is also audio from Ken McDonald, Managing Director of Quixtar, among others.

There is also information on Amway's cases at the FTC in 1979 and 1986. It also talks about the bill HR1220 in Congress in 2003 which Quixtar supported that would legalize pyramid schemes. There is also information on other lawsuits against Amway and Quixtar as well. If you Google "truth about Quixtar" you will find a lot in interesting information.

It is poor judgment to do business with a company that has a questionable reputation, and permit people who represent them to participate in deceptive business practices.

Here is text from the Directly Speaking tapes:
Directly Speaking, January 1983,
Spoken by Rich DeVos
Amway Cassette Series VA-2160
Well, this is Rich DeVos in Ada, Michigan, coming forth once again to chat a little bit with you, and to share a few ideas, and a little information and some of the things that are going on. The primary purpose to this tape is to communicate to you some of the things that went on at the Diamond Club in Hawaii, and I guess partly to make sure we have the least amount of rumors and the most amount of facts running around as to where we're coming at you from.

I guess another reason to talk to you right now has to do with what we've seen on "60 Minutes" -- what we're seeing on other television programs around the country, and some of the challenges that seem to be coming our way at this time.

At the Diamond Club, I -- referred to them as "warts." Randy Preston said, "Maybe you ought to call them 'blemishes,'" but I do not think that's strong enough. Now let's first of all understand that I am not talking to new Distributors -- this is not a sponsoring meeting -- I am talking to you as Direct Distributors, as the heads of your organizations, as the ones that this company deals with and looks to to carry on the leadership role in this organization. Now I recognize there are other awards, and every award level, by the way, claims that they are the true leadership, but as I told you when I was on the road with you, this Plan gears around the simple fact that every Direct Distributor is in charge of their business, they are the owners of it, they run it and they are the level to which we look to meet the day-to-day responsibilities in the field organization.

So I'm talking to you as the leaders of the organization. I hope you have all due respect for all the people below you and all the people above you, and that's just super. I must emphasize to you, however, that you're the leadership, on a day-to-day in dealing with your organization. Therefore, it's important you know some of these things, and so, maybe we can give 'em to you straight and maybe share some of our concerns with you.

Every since "60 Minutes" appeared, we have been inundated by mail. Both pro and con. I think in all honesty I must tell you that the outside world, the people who are in business, the people who are in government, the people who watch "60 Minutes" quite regularly and critically and have a knowledge of media and so forth -- generally feel we came out very, very well.

Paul Harvey called me the other day and said, "You guys did a great job, I'm proud of ya." And he wanted to call just to congratulate us. The head of a major university's business school, I talked with him yesterday, and (unintelligible) "Boy, you guys did as good as anybody's ever done. I was proud of ya. In fact, I had a bunch of people in just to watch ya, because I knew you'd do well." Well, that's fine, but the inside report from Distributors goes all the way from frustration to outright anger. People who say they distorted us, they didn't show anything good about us, they could do was find a few failures and show the extremes and why did ya pick those people, and why didn't ya pick somebody else -- and all those rumors you got in your mind, and some of those frustrations also.

Well, let me give you the background on "60 Minutes," it might help you a bit. We were first approached a long time ago. We tried to put it off, we told them we didn't think we were a good subject for the show, but they said they were going to do a show, with or without us. And we finally took it upon ourselves to say that if they're going to do it anyway, then we're not going to dodge it -- even if it's a disaster, we're at least going to stand for what we believe and if they don't put our thoughts on the tape, well that's up to them. But we're not going to run from it.

We had no control over the people they used. They took tape from all over the country. They taped people on the West Coast, they taped people on the East Coast and they chose to run the portion they ran. Now, you may not have liked, or I may not have liked it -- it's unimportant. That was their choice. The fact of the matter, however, is that watch you saw is what was being presented at an Amway meeting. And I'm not going to knock it and say it was so bad -- it's just that when you take a little piece out of a big meeting, it can look not as good as you'd like to have it. You know, if you and I sit in a meeting for three or four hours and we hear somebody say a few things like that, we'd applaud. We'd say "Yeah, right on, and soar with the eagles -- why not?" But when ya suddenly see that little section, one minute long, taken out of context and flashed on a screen, it doesn't look quite the same. Does it? When a person stands up and says "I'm going to have a ring for every finger..." You know, I say sometimes at a Direct Distributor meeting where we're on a talk about getting ahead in life and having some of the finer things in life, that sounds pretty good. But when it's on a national television screen, as though it represented all of us, and that all we think about is greed, or money, or rings, or cars, or buses, or whatever, then it doesn't look very good.

Now, let's face it -- you and I know that's not the whole story -- they know it's not the whole story -- and those that don't like us come to their own conclusion. But you see, when you grab thirty seconds or a minute out of a whole meeting, you get a distorted view. That wasn't the whole meeting - there was lot more to the meeting, and probably much more balanced in the meeting, but that isn't what they chose to show, and so it comes off that way.

Now let's, therefore just -- not get excited about it, figure we came out of it 50-50, 60-40. We wish it had been a 15 minute ad but it wasn't. It wasn't all bad, it wasn't all good, but it did show a presentation of how we sometimes look.

Now, we also have got -- some of you know -- some problems in other states with legal authorities, we -- who -- also say we're not saying it right, we're not presenting the Plan correctly, we're overclaiming and understating what'cha have to do.

We have guys in the -- Legal field -- uh, Attorneys General -- who don't like our curiosity approach, and -- and, so we've tried to -- lay before the Diamonds and I'm trying to lay before you and -- and -- really asking for your help. We've got to find a way to make a better image.

You know, one of the reasons we use the curiosity approach is because people have preconceived ideas of what Amway is. You and I know what it really is, but they have a distorted or warped view; and therefore, if they thought they were coming to an Amway function, they would probably say "No" because of their preconceived ideas. Therefore, would we do is use the curiosity approach, but when it's used indirectly, all we do is give a further bad image for the organization. And people begin to say, "What's the matter, are you ashamed of what you're in? Do you have to be tricky, deceitful, lie to get me to come to a meeting? Tell me it's a fund-raiser, tell me it's a -- it's a how to save money on taxes -- it's a social event" -- whatsa matter with you people, what happened to your ethics? And I have to tell you, that what we're running in to. And that's why we're asking for your total help to stamp out the curiosity approach. If you can't use it correct, then don't use it at all. Then invite them to an Amway meeting, and when they tell you they know all about that, then ask them some questions, such as, "If you know all about it, how does the Diamond Bonus work. How does the Emerald bonus work? Do you know how how profit-sharing works." When they say, "No, I don't know that," then you jump right on them and say "You don't know about Amway, you better come to the meeting.

(Unintelligible) . . . that's how you overcome that, but I'd rather have you have to go through that little verbal battle rather to deceive a person and tell them it's not an Amway meeting and then when they get there an hour after they sat down they discover it is an Amway meeting. You know, that's deception, that infuriates people, and that gives this company, and you, a bad image. And so we need your help on some of that stuff, we just got to clean it up.

I get too many letters in here from people who are still being told, "You don't have to sell products, we're in a marketing group, we're just in a marketing outfit. No selling is necessary." Now you know, that's a lie. (Unintelligible) . . . you can't stay in this business and be a liar and expect us to have a decent image, and I need your help.

Those aren't big things, those are just little things, but you know, we're a big company and we no longer can afford to do little things wrong, because everybody's watching what we do, and therefore we got to do even the little things right -- now, I know you're growing up in business and you're -- you're just trying to get business and you don't know all of the legal ramifications, you don't know all the complications, you just do things because you think you're -- you're doing them right, but that's why we insist that you must do them our way, not because you're dumb or inept or a jerk, we ask you to do 'em our way because this is a complicated business and this is a complicated world, and there are certain ways that are right and other ways that are wrong. And I need your help -- when I say, "Do it our way," that not to take your creativity away, it's just that with a million of us out there and each got their own little twist or turn or idea, and they think it's cute, it may be cutely illegal, possibly improper and could be creating a bad image that we were talking about. Now we addressed all that stuff at Diamond Club and I -- I told all the Diamonds I need their help, I'm telling you I need you're help on cleaning up some of these situations.

Now, I got -- as we said -- I got stacks of letters that came in -- I -- I can't tell you how many of people have written. Hundreds and thousands -- and here's -- here's -- just one letter from one dear lady from the East -- and I won't give her name, I didn't do it for that reason, she's talking about "60 Minutes:

"Please don't misunderstand, but a number of people not even in the business stated to me that you did not come out strong enough against the hype, hoopla, exaggerated claims and obvious mixing of born-again, fundamentalist revivalism with business that was shown."

Then she goes on to say:

"I have no idea, of course, why they edited it that way, but, they did."

Now, I can . . . (unintelligible) . . . I can . . . her letter is many pages long, and she told how -- she finally switched groups because she was so tired of that sort of treatment. Still in the business, but still got a bad taste in her mouth.

You know, I got another one over here. And this is the stuff I am receiving, and it comes in the backwash of "60 Minutes." Somebody said:

"I consider myself to be the victim of aggressive Directs and their upline. I got caught in an ambitious and aggressive group."

If this was an exception letter, you guys and gals, I wouldn't beat it at ya. I got too many of 'em, and therefore I'm going to share it with you, although I know that it's a little negative, but I have to get to you, I have to get your attention that we have to do some things to change our image, and we need to the help of all of you.

(Unintelligible) . . . I consider myself to be an -- ambitious, aggressive group. Directs, that was (sic) determined to reach their set goal at the expense of the Distributors, come hell or high water. Their philosophy, "Mortgage your home, cash in your insurance, get a bank loan and borrow from whosoever will loan you.
We were told in our, and I'll leave the name out because it would identify the organization, in our so and so meeting, certain things discussed were to remain within the walls wherein discussed or suggested.

Then the goes on to tell how he was harassed at this job.

Whoever was teaching that, and it was not some little new Direct, was teaching an illegal, immoral, improper system. I can't tolerate it.

You know, we've been talkin' to you for years that you don't buy a position in Amway, you earn it, and, here, blatantly, being taught inside a meeting, and then being told don't tell anybody, are methods that go contrary to everything we've heard.

We've always said you earn your position in Amway and you don't buy it. And here I see it being done, and I want to tell you, we're -- monitoring new Directs, we're monitoring anybody who gets a higher award, we have a whole department today that is monitoring, just because we have some people who got abusive with it.

Now, I just got to lay these things on you, I -- I need your attention, and I -- some of you guys who are doing it is the one (sic) I am talking to. I'm not talking to the rest of you. But some of you continue doing things that we are not going to tolerate, and we are in the process of establishing a whole new policing department in this company, because we have been unable to voluntarily get you to decide to do the things that are right and will improve the image that we have.

Here's another person, and that's the last one I'm gonna read to ya, but she -- she chew me out. And, so -- uh, you know, turn-about's fair play, they say, and I don't doubt that. She said, "I'm painfully aware that I'm very insignificant cog in the big company wheel." But for what it is worth my opinion is that our president, Rich DeVos, for whom I have the greatest respect, is now obligated to bite the bullet and act on his own voiced beliefs. I recall two of the very impressive statements which punctuates (sic) my point.

The first is a quote from a 1965 recording of the "Four Winds," where he told the Junior Achievers, "Before you go out to clean up the world, you had better learn how to clean up your own room." Boy, how's that for having' it thrown back at you?

And how right it is, and how right-on it is, that a person would do that.

She goes on to say -- I had another quote, which I put on a tape right after the Manifesto came out: "If we are allowed to pick and choose the rules by which we will abide, and ignore the others, then we have chaos."

Wow, that's a direct quote, from another person. As I told you, they come in by the stacks. I take 'em home by the pile at night, and just sit there are read through them, wishing I could answer all of them, but many of them carry this message, that we've got some things to do.

Well, that's partly what we addressed when we were in Hawaii. By the way, I do have one more here, I see it on the bottom of my list, and . . . and he's gettin' on my case, he says, "You gotta do something to change this image of this company." Well, I wish I could tell you that we're gonna buy Bob Hope, and he's gonna be on television, he's going to be sponsored by Amway, and that that's gonna change it. Well, it's not going to change it. It will help, 'cause he's willing to come on the line for Amway and talk about Amway -- you'll love the ads, by the way, they're great, and it will get to a lot of people.

There's only one thing we can do the change the image, you've got to do some things about the way we are conducting ourselves in this business to correct them. Therefore, what I got down to at the Diamond Club, by the way, and this sort of fell out afterwards, you know -- one of the things that we announced at the Diamond Club -- and it -- Amway has been working for three years on the matter of how to cope with the tape business. Should the company get in it, should it stay out of it, how far should it get in it, should it have -- uh, uh -- dollar amounts paid to certain levels, pin levels -- should it -- should it -- have BV -- shouldn't it have -- we have just put it off all these years.

But you know, we finally concluded, and that's what I announced at Diamond Club, that we are going to put BV on tapes. By the ways, our tapes in the United States will sell for $2.50 and in Canada they'll be $2.95, we will pay full BV -- now understand, no PV -- so you'll get the Business volume. The reason for that is a very simple one, so that you get the Point Value out of this business by doing your regular Amway business. However, because of the cost of doing some of the motivational materials and handling tapes, you can get business volume on it.

In other words, you can't make Direct by selling tapes. You make Direct by selling the regular line Amway products, but you will get Business Volume on the other. Now, from our standpoint, that's the kind of a simple things, you know, that's absolutely consistent with the Plan, it awards everybody fairly in relationship to what they do in it, it protects the upline, it protects the downline, and it was kind of a simple thing.

Uh -- primary reason was because we got a lot of people in this business who don't have a tape program and they're saying, "Why don't you put something out; that's legal and proper," and we finally said fine. We're going to put out legally clear tapes that give it straight, and that you can rely on, we're going to put them out at a price we think it right, we'll put a little BV on 'em so that you recover some of the costs, and -- we have a little hooker in there, by the way -- the BV on tapes can never exceed twenty percent of your total Business Volume. Now, I haven't figured out what to do if you go to twenty-one percent, but we will, we may just not pay you on it -- because when your tape volume becomes so great in relationship to your regular business, then you are no longer in the Amway business -- you're in the tape business.

Now, the tape business, if it is not used as a support for the Amway business, will oftentimes be an illegal business -- in fact, it could be called a pyramid -- because, d -- does not get sold to the consumer. Which means that all the tape business does is take money out of the organization, and because the final person can't retail it, it never brings money into the organization. Now, I'm not arguing about the value of it -- we accept the fact that motivation is vital to this business. Good, honest motivation is important to the business. But, it must be motivation that builds the business -- not become a business in itself.

And some of you have made it a business unto itself. And you're making a lot of money on it, and all I'm saying to you, well, I can't tell you whether you can or you can't, I can't tell you whether it's legal or illegal, I'm not checking on your business right now. But we have to provide an alternative to the Direct Distributor in this business in a fair and legal and honest manner as a support device for the main business. And so we decided to put BV on tapes.

We really didn't think it was a big deal. I was a little surprised, and I am surprised today to the reaction of some people to our doing this. (Unintelligible) . . . "You're cutting into my tape business, you can't do that." Listen, we've been putting out motivational materials in this company for 23 years. We've been putting out tapes longer than anybody in the business. The mere fact that we decide to put BV on it is a corporate decision, we make corporate decisions everyday to make a product a sales aid, or to put it in BV. We do those things everyday. So our doing this was not a big deal from the corporate standpoint, and so we're a little surprised. We never really considered it being confrontational, we considered it as a way to take care of all the good, Direct Distributors in this business and letting him share in some of the dollars in it, for motivation, as long as it didn't get out of control and become their main business, and that's why the controls are placed in it.

I really find it hard for anybody to argue with Amway putting some profit in tape -- uh -- for the Direct Distributors -- uh -- even though I've gotten some of that reaction, but that's a whole subject, and -- I just, we just dropped the tape thing there, and -- and we'll move on to the -- the bigger picture, you know, the bigger thing -- by the way, that's effective March 1, and uh, you'll be getting price lists and notifications on it, and those of you that don't have a good tape program or any tape program it's -- we think we're going to begin to offer you a good program you can offer to your organization in balance to motivate your people, uh -- I'm not trying to push them, I'm not trying to jam 'em at ya -- I'm just saying that if you feel there is a need for more tapes in your group for motivational reasons, we're going to have some available. Uh, and so -- uh -- we don't call it a program or a system, we just are adding BV to our tapes and going to expand our tape library to better serve those of you that have a need for such a thing.




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Side B

Another upshot of everything else, therefore, at the Diamond Club, and all the discussion, led me to challenge the Diamonds, and I -- I want to challenge you with 'em today. I may have sounded a little angry to you. I'm not really angry. I'm just -- I'm concerned. I -- I am vitally concerned about the image that this Company is portraying. And I think we've got some bad actors in this business, and you know we have. And I am imploring all of you to do two things. Number one, clean up your act. And number two, if you know people who are continuing to do things improperly after all of this, then I want you to write us a note and just tell us who's doing it. Don't -- I don't need 419's right now. I just want to know so we can track the improper ones: And if we find somebody is cross-grouping, and if somebody's coming to you and asking you to buy their system or their tape program, then you let us know, 'cause that's cross-grouping. And just put it in a letter.

Say, "so-and-so came in to see me today to try to get me to sell their stuff." And, you see, then we can put a quick track on anybody who is violating one of the basic principles of this organization. And we'll begin to spot them; and we'll get to them. And then we can take our action from there. But we need your help on getting us some of that information. But, more than that, we need your help in making sure the way you're doing it is proper in your own group.

These are the ten things I put before the Diamonds, and let me just put 'em before you. I asked the Diamonds, by the way, that if they agreed with these Ten Points to write me a letter or to stick it on the note pad that was in front of them in the meeting room. All they had to say to me was, "Rich, I agree with you. We support those Ten Points, and we will teach them to our people. And, you know, I received such letters from almost everybody who was there. Not everybody, but I did receive them from most of the Diamonds. So I have them in my file, and I know who has pledged their support to uphold these things. And while we're not in a meeting and I can't ask you exactly the same thing in the same way, to hand it to me when the meeting's over with, and scribble it on a piece of paper, if you feel so inclined, you might want to write a note and say, "Rich, I support your Ten Points, and I'm gonna uphold them in our group, and I'm gonna teach them to our people and see if we can't clean up our business so we can present a better image to the world." So, I'm not -- I'm not necessarily going to take a role call on it, but if you feel that way, sometimes, you know, it helps your own commitment, and it might make you feel a little better to let us know where you stand. Just say, "I am with you." Just stick it on a postcard. I don't care. Just say, "Rich, I stand with you on the Ten Points," and we can go from there.

Now, here they are. They're not very complicated, but they do get down to some of the nitty-gritty, and I'll explain them to you as I go.

Number One: I will unplug from any group, up or down, which is not in my line of sponsorship.
You know, a lot of you, got your fingers dirty. You got your hands a little bit into somebody else's group, or you're dealing into somebody else's group that's not in your line of sponsorship, or you're getting stuff from somebody. I'm just asking you to unplug it. Tend to your own business; stay in your own line; deal only with the people you sponsor. The other people are not in your group; they are not your business; and if you are a believer in this Plan, then you'll believe in the principle. If it's okay for you to intrude somebody else's group, then it's okay for them to intrude yours. If it's okay for you to intrude somebody else's group; then it's okay for somebody above you to go around you and intrude your distributors below you. You and I know you can't tolerate that. We can't stand it, and you've got to agree to stand on it. If you do, send me a note. I know, there are some old, historical associations. Some of you had 'em goin' back ten years. I'm not going to come running over and try and police it; but I'm saying you should start to think in terms of unplugging and gettin' your act cleaned up.
Number Two: I will only use Amway-produced literature in the presentation of the Plan and will use only the figures Amway gives.
We have a major lawsuit going right now with an attorney general in one of the states based on people making what they say are excess claims and telling people they hardly have to work at all, telling them you can make $50,000.00 a year and you only have to work twelve hours a week. Now, you and I both know, you know; that -- that just can't be put up with. And, therefore, I have a very simple statement to you: Don't create numbers of your own. You use the numbers and the literature we give you, and nobody else's. You don't have any tapes in your group to teach you how to present the Plan other than the one Amway has. That's what I mean by following Rule Two.
Number Three: I will not make my willingness to help a distributor conditioned on their purchasing my Tape of the Week or anything else I sell, which is beyond the basic Amway-supplied material.
I tell you why that's in there. I got too many letters from people who have told me that they were told that if they didn't support their upline and buy his or her tapes, then they would not give them any help. I can't put up with that. It is a sponsor's responsibility to train, motivate and supply their people. That's for the privilege of being the sponsor; not whether they buy some extra things you've decided to sell. If you have people in your group that you don't want, then let us know and we'll reassign them to somebody else; because if you're unwilling to take care of them because you are willing to sponsor them, then let me know. There are no conditions on servicing distributors. All of your distributors are serviced the best you know how, whether they buy a tape of the Week from you or not.
Number Four: If I offer tapes, books and rallies, they will always be presented on a voluntary basis. No strings, no pressure, and no force.
And by 'force' I mean such as saying to somebody in your group that "You must take ten tickets. You must take a hundred tickets. Here's your hundred tickets. Pay me for 'em. You better get rid of 'em. We're going to fill this hall. Or saying, "You must subscribe to Tape of the Week, or I won't work with you." That's force. You know, you offer these things, but you do that voluntarily. If you do it that way, fine. It doesn't diminish your willingness to work with them. Pure, voluntary use of support materials. By the way, you ought to be very careful, because the moment you do anything more than what I am saying to you to do, which is voluntarily offer them, you are going to run the risk of having an employer/employee relationship. That's the last thing you need.
Number Five: If I teach the curiosity approach, it will be in accordance with Rule Six, as passed out at the end of the meeting.
Well, I can't pass it out to you today, but Rule Six really says if you're going to use curiosity, you must tell them they are coming to a business-type opportunity meeting. You may not tell 'em it's a social event or a coffee or a church event or a fund-raising event or a how-to-save-money-on-taxes event. All that is deception. You must tell 'em it's a business opportunity meeting. If they ask you if it's Amway, you say 'yes.' That's what the Rule says. If I were doing it, I would say to people ahead of time, and I wanted to use curiosity, "I'm not going to tell you what it is, but I want you to come." If they said to me, "If that's the way it is, I'm not going to come," I'd say, "Well, fine, then, say home: You spent all your life telling me that you wanted to get ahead, you weren't happy with your conditions in life, you don't like your job; and now I ask you if you'll give me two hours to come and hear about something and you tell me you're not going to come. (inaudible) stay home." See? Don't beg people. Finally, you get down to challenging them to come or not come.
Number Six: I will not produce any literature or tapes about the Plan or the products.
I know you present the Plan magnificently, but what you don't always know are the fine points that we have to cover in all fifty states, plus satisfying the government, to make sure we say it exactly right. And that's why we cannot permit you to produce any such materials.
Number Seven: I will not hide behind group names.
We are proud of our group and like our own identity, but we will not use it as a subterfuge to say we are not in Amway. This really is a hot one, folks. People are saying, "Oh, we're in X-Y-Z organization. We're not in Amway." If you are signed on an Amway application form and if you have anyone you sponsor who's linked to you, then you are in Amway. I don't care what other name you want to run under: By implication, you are saying you're not in Amway: If you are asked, then you must say, "I am in Amway." And if you're not willing to say that, then don't send me any letters.
Number Eight: We will work together to build our own businesses while creating an organization that truly cares about every distributor in it. We will talk about the big picture -- no problem -- while making sure we do not diminish those who choose to do less or make them feel like losers.
I hear that very often. "There's winners and losers. Are you a winner? Are you a loser?" Almost insulting people who don't sign up. You even got bad terminology. "We're the winners. Over here are the losers in life." They're not losers. They may have a richer, fuller life than those of you that got fancy cars and new clothes or big rings have got. You know, they -- Life is not geared by materialism. You do not decide who's a winner or a loser. There's too -- Life is too complicated for that. We must make sure we always speak of everybody being a winner, even though they may have different goals. My plea here is that when you have a program, you make sure you have people on there who are making $100.00 and thrilled with it, as well as those who make more. Present it as a plan so that everybody can realize their goal, whatever it is.
Number Nine: While recognizing the importance of financial goals, we will attempt to use tact, t-a-c-t, and dignity so as not to create an image of just money, money, money. Together we will create an organization, which loves and cares for each distributor, regardless of level, and an organization which will be of service in our communities.
I don't mind you're making money. I don't mind your enjoying the things that money will buy. But I do have a problem of presenting an image of an organization that has nothing in it but greed, that has no concern for the poor or the hungry or for what's going an in their community. It is time, folks, we changed our image and showed an image of a company and of individuals who care about other people, no matter where they are economically. And that while you may want to quietly talk about your new cars or your fancy rings, you also talk to people about the other values that the Amway business brings, such as the wonderful idea of being associated with people who are positive, the great and good things that happen by -- by making an extra $100.00 a month, the fun of -- of being in an organization that is in a positive frame of mind. All the other, little things we don't talk about: the joy of bringing up our children in an atmosphere of positive thinking; you know, have our kids hang around people -- the joy of having our kids see something else other than the back yards of their neighbors' houses and never get more than fifty miles out of town, to be able to open your children's minds to music and to the arts. All of that is what we got to talk about, not just whether we're making some more money.
And Number Ten: I agree with the principle and will observe the rules relating to PV/BV transfers. We will do all we can to make sure no PV/BV is transferred to anyone who did not honestly buy it and who was complying with the seventy percent rule.
In other Words, I need a pledge that you will not inventory load, that you will not push a bunch of stuff on somebody to win a pin or to earn a trip; but that they will, indeed, have not only bought the Amway products, but have, in turn, sold them so that they got retail and the money came back in. In direct contrast to what I read to you in a letter earlier, "go out and borrow the money to make it." I could tell you horror stories about every company I've ever lived with and fought against, who did inventory loading, asking people to borrow money to make a pin level. We have watched at least a hundred such companies come, and we have watched all of them go; and they are all broke and long gone. We cannot tolerate this business. We must stick to the principle that the people we hang pins on did so because they built a strong, Amway-centered business, built on what they did conforming with the rules of rewarding people on the basis of performance, not on the basis of their ability to beg, borrow or steal money.
Well, that's quite a Directly Speaking tape. Heavy? Well, maybe. But, you know, folks, this is a serious time. What you saw on "60 Minutes" was probably not all to your liking; it was not to mine. But the beautiful part of it is that Mike Wallace, when he was here, said, "You know, this is the most phenomenal thing." He was intrigued with the lives we were touching and the things we were doing. He was intrigued with the motivation, the lifting up, the spirit of the people. He was convinced; when he went to shoot those pictures at that meeting in North Carolina, that he would find nothing but Bible-belt Baptists, all white, only to find blacks and Jews from New York City, all mixed in. He said, "We couldn't believe it. This was a cross-section of America, people trying to get ahead, and we were impressed." Well, they may not have shown that in their programming, but, you see, we know that they could have done a lot worse for us. And, so, we're grateful to them for showing us our warts and for helping us to remind ourselves that we got to "clean up our own room," as the one lady wrote and placed it so well. That if we are really going to go out and impact this world, we got to do it with clean hands. And right now, some of you have got to ask yourself these ten questions. Some of you have got to ask yourself whether you're really in the Amway business or whether you're in the tape business. You got to ask yourself whether you're really in the rally business or in the Amway business. You must ask yourself if everything you're doing is to support your Amway business or is it really for a secondary motive. We are, of course, a little prejudiced. But, you see, it is the Amway Plan that you run under, and we really cannot tolerate people running under the Amway Plan and then doing such things that destroy the image of all other Amway distributors.

And, so, we're off and running. We're on to the subject, and I hate to confront you with it. But I think for most of you, you'll recognize that if we aren't careful with our image, some day it'll be so bad, you won't be able to sponsor anybody. And then there won't be any sense in talking about it anymore. But right now, this night, at the meetings you have today, with the people with whom you talk today, is the time to make sure you present the Plan as a plan that offers opportunity geared on hard work and that you approach people honestly and straight-forward and don't try to deceive them, and then you don't try to push stuff on your nice distributors because you make money on it when it may or may not be totally necessary for them.

I know some of the tapes are magnificent. I know they're important, and I know rallies are important, and I know books are important. I know all that's important -- all important within balance. Out of balance, it can destroy us.

And so, we're on the road. Thanking you again for a great year and thanking you ahead of time for your cooperation because it is my belief that each one of you, when you realize what's really going on in this business, will say, "Rich, you're right. I'm with you. We do got to clean up our act. And it isn't just in the other guy's group. I got some stuff to do with my own group." And if all of us will take that to heart right now, we will begin to build the new Amway, based on sponsoring people in a very simple, straight-forward manner, to join the fastest-growing, most magnificent outfit in the world that offers people at the bottom of the rung a chance to make a beginning. And we will focus our attention on selling products.

Expo is just hitting the road. It will be in Atlanta next week for its opening thing.

Dick, my son Dick, and Roger just came back from Cleveland where they built it; and they said it is absolutely magnificent; it is going to stun them when they see this new traveling show. We have two new semi's that are traveling across the country, carrying this from city to city. Bring every customer you get. In fact, go get ten of your friends who think you're nuts for being in Amway. Invite 'em over for dinner and say, "We're going to go to the Amway Expo." Or tell 'em you're going to take 'em out to show 'em the Amway Expo and

[page of transcript missing]

So we'll be in touch with you. We'll see you all, and thanks for being great people.

This is Rich in Ada with great gratitude for all of you. Bye-bye.




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CERTIFICATE



STATE OF OHIO )
) SS:
COUNTY OF HAMILTON )


I, KATHLEEN M. McCLELLAN, a Court Reporter and Notary
Public for the State of Ohio, commissioned and qualified, do
hereby certify that the foregoing twenty-nine (29) pages
constitutes a true, correct and complete transcript of Directlv
Speaking, Rich De Vos, Amway Cassette Series VAL-2l50, which was
transcribed by me and/or under my direction.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and
notarial seal at Cincinnati, Ohio, this 29th day of March, 1985.

Directly Speaking, Date Unknown
(probably Feb. or March 1983),
Spoken by Rich DeVos
Amway Cassette Series VA-2160
sounds/directly_speaking_II.zip Directly Speaking II - side A in .mp3 (3.6Megs) Directly Speaking II - side B in .mp3 (2.6Megs)

Side A

Well, here we are again in Ada, Michigan, and this is Rich. You might not know it, but today is my birthday. It's the 4th day of March, and I'm 57; so you won't have to spend a lot of time discussing it. And since it's the second Directly Speaking tape dealing with some of the real challenges that this organization faces right now, I thought maybe we ought to kind of get back to some fundamentals a little bit and then see if we really can't answer a lot of the questions that have come to me.

My mailbag, since the last Directly Speaking tape, has been very heavy. Many, many of you have written letters, saying, "It's about time," "Thank goodness," "Hallelujah," and a few other joyful expressions. My desk became piled high with people saying, "I support you in your Ten Points." And if you haven't written such a letter and you feel that way, I'd still urge you to write it. We are down to a point of trying to find out who really supports this Amway program; and, if after listening to the last Directly Speaking tape you felt like you wanted to stand and yell and say, "We stand with you," and never bothered to write, it's important that you do.

Let me just see if I can't reiterate a few of the important things that I think are facing us right now, some principles that are involved. And it is, of course, the reason that I am writing, or, why I'm talking to you, as -- as Direct Distributors.

Someplace along the line, we lost sight of the fact that the Direct Distributor is the operating head of their organization. All due respect to the upline. I don't care who they are; I don't care what pin level they are. Many of you have heard me talk over and over again about the fact that if your sponsor did nothing more than tell you about Amway, they opened a door of opportunity for you; but only you can walk through it. And those of you that I'm talking to today are Direct Distributors; you took the challenge; you walked through that door, and you became a Direct Distributor in the world of Amway. In our book, that makes you the head, the star the outstanding performer, who, unlike many others who looked at it and listened and either turned it down or did nothing with it, you did, and you are to be commended.

I'm disturbed, because I find too many people are putting Directs down and saying, Oh, what are you? "You don't know enough," a Diamond's where it's at. And you know, it's true; we have a lot of awards at Diamond. But we decided a long time ago in this company that Direct Distributor is where it's at. After all, a Diamond is only a person who has six Direct Distributors, and a double Diamond is one who has twelve; but this whole Plan revolves around the leadership of the Direct Distributor. And that's, of course, why we're talking to you.

I'd like to get through some of the kind of negative stuff that's come on my desk, also. As I told you, I've a lot of positive responses. I also have a lot of horror stories, stories that must have been swept under the rug or hid behind the curtains, that should have been brought to our attention a long time ago -- and I know, in some of the cases, they were brought to our attention, and we did nothing about it; and I apologize to you for that. Maybe we overlook some things, maybe we are blind and maybe we swept some things under the rug, too, and thought it would just sort of go away. Only some of these things did not go away; they just got worse.

And, so let me see, now, if I can just take some of the questions that you've sent to me, some of them in anger, very mad at us for doing a simple thing, like putting BV on tapes. None of us here ever realized that we would cause to come out in the open all that has now come forward; but I must assure you that now that it is out in the open, we have no alternative but to move forcefully and directly on all the things that are now before us here. We cannot turn our back. We cannot sweep it under the rug. We must deal with it; and deal with it, we will. And we are developing the resources inside this company to attack it on a one-by-one basis.

One of the complaints that we received was, "Why do you always act as though we are all guilty when it's only some who are guilty? Why don't you praise the rest of us?" And, you know, I think that's a marvelous idea; and I do try to praise you. I -- I would praise you now for being who you are and where you are. But, you see, it's sort of like trying to find out where the problem is, only you don't know where the problem is; and, so, you sort of have to swing wide. And, in the process, yes, indeed, you do sometimes harm those you really should be loving. But I also found out that in the past, when we have done work to resolve specific problems and we didn't tell everybody about it, we got accused of not doing anything.

So, on the one hand, if I talk openly to all of you about some of the challenges, I am accused of painting everybody with a broad brush and making them feel quilty. On the other hand, if I don't talk to you openly about all of these problems, great numbers of you think we are doing nothing. And, therefore, as adults, as leaders of the business, which is what you are, as the operating heads, as the responsible party, we must share with you the problems of the business, as well as the challenges and the joys of the business. And, I guess, I must trust that you are big enough to cope with both of those; so that on the one hand, you don't get all bent out of shape because there are problems in the business and lose your excitement for it, and on the other hand, that you don't get carried away with your own power and greatness if we don't challenge you with some of these issues. So, I don't want you to get to where it goes to your head; and, by the same token, I -- I don't want to put you down; but I feel all of you must know what is happening, so that you can react intelligently to it. If you don't know what the problem is, sometimes you don't even know when you're being done in; and you should know some of those things that are happening... And so, we'll kind of lay it on you.

Let me take some of the kind of nasty ones first. They kind of come in groups, by the way. You can always tell when some person in the business -- perhaps in a leadership position -- has called together his Directs and given them the word, because a whole bunch of letters or telegrams come in; and they all say exactly the same thing. And, so, my first reaction to those kinds -- and I have a little stack of those in front of me is that obviously these people never thought the problem through. They are mouthing what somebody else has told them to say, and they run along the line like this: "What happened to your trust?" I don't know if I can trust you anymore," "You put BV on tapes," "You cause me great concern." Maybe -- let me read you one. "Disturbed by Directly Speaking tape. Lacks mutual trust and respect. Need two-way communication. Consider bonus increase at level price to cover inflated building cost at distance." Interesting. I don't have one of those; I have several of them. They go in a slightly different vain; but they're all saying, "You broke your trust when you put BV on tapes."

Well, let's just talk about trust a little bit. How can we be accused of breaking trust when all we did was do what they are asking us to do in the next sentence, put some more money in the Plan? You know, the first sentence says, "You've broken your trust;" the second sentence, "Put more money in the Plan." You know, you shouldn't have sent the telegram. We just did; we put more money in the Plan for the Direct Distributor and everybody who earns BV. Now, how can that break trust? I can see where, if we had decided to eliminate a bonus, to remove items from BV and ask you to handle them without anything, that you could accuse us of such a thing. I don't see how I can possibly be accused of breaking trust when we have, indeed, enriched the Plan and exactly in the form in which the Plan has always operated, which is a principle I think those who have written such telegrams have forgotten.

This Plan was geared around the sharing of the opportunity with everybody in the line of sponsorship. I think what some are saying to me is that we had a nice system that shared it with only certain, selected people in the Plan; we split the money amongst the Diamonds and the Emeralds; we didn't give it to anybody else. Trust? Whose trust? Whose trust was betrayed? All those good sponsors who brought you all those other people who were walked over, stepped on and bypassed? Do they deserve your trust? And then to question whether we should be trusted, who have protected the Plan, is really an insult to me.

I am further fascinated, by the way, with this whole idea of "put more money in the Plan, but don't raise the prices." I've heard that, you know, for a long time. I guess, what that says to me, from a person who hasn't thought it through, "Give us more. Take it out of the company's coffers; but don't charge more to the customer." Sounds good, doesn't it? Sounds like the same kind of a problem that got the automotive industry in trouble; like the same kind of a problem that got the steel company in trouble; like the same kind of problems that have seen businesses go down the drain forever, which is, "Oh, just raise the prices; give us more money." No way, folks. There just is no way to continue to pay people more money for doing the same amount of work.

In one of the telegrams, it said, "But we have to travel great distances." Oh, do you? Who said you have to travel great distances? Who said you have to go from one side of this country to the other to sponsor someone? You know, Jay and I started in this business in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We built our business in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We lived off the volume we generated in this town. We lived with the people we sponsored; we lived with the ones who chose not to be sponsored. But we developed a reputation in our own community of operating an honorable business, and we were able to sponsor people in this town regularly. And when, finally, others developed in leadership roles in our Nutralite business, we went fifty miles away to Lansing, Michigan, or we went to Holland, Michigan, or we went to Detroit, a hundred and fifty miles away. And I remember driving those nights; I remember coming out of Detroit after a midnight meeting and driving home because it saved the twenty bucks of a hotel room, and we did it every week, year in and year out. We didn't talk about suites; we just wondered where there was a cheap hotel to stay in.

You know, folks, it's time we got back to the fundamentals of this business. There is no way to put a lot of money in this Plan, other than a very simple one. I can show you how to double your income; and that is by doubling your volume. Somebody says, "Put an extra one percent in at all levels." And those who don't know should know that a one percent payout in the Plan at least is a four percent increase at the retail level. And somebody glibly says, "Put some more money in at every level." Do you think Direct Distributors are going to do flipflops over getting twenty-six percent instead of twenty-five? I don't think so. But I can show 'em how to get an extra fifty or sixty percent if they'll get out and sell some merchandise. I guess if I'd been told all these years you don't have to sell the product, all you have to do is wholesale it to people, then I guess maybe I wouldn't pay any attention to pricing, either. But that's an illegal business. And those of you that preach it and foster it and talk about it are operating illegally. I don't know how often I have to tell you that. I don't know how long I have to keep insisting that you talk upon people retailing the product and gaining customers and servicing them faithfully, only to have some of you just throw it up in the air and say, "That's not our way. We don't teach that method." I got to tell you, you're running the wrong method. You see, once you'd accept the fact that you must sell the product at retail to have an honest business, then you suddenly are very concerned about the pricing of the product. And once you understand that, you don't just glibly say, "Oh, take it out of the corporate coffers; just raise the price a little bit;" because those dollars do not exist there.

Somebody says, "You guys make a lot of money." That's right. And when you have a billion dollar a year business, you'll make a lot of money. But I'll tell you, We didn't make a lot of money by operating a hundred thousand dollar a year business and seeing how we could suck it dry. We built a billion dollar a year business. And when you work towards getting products retailed at that level, I'll tell you, we'll make money in this business. The problem is, some of you are trying to figure out how to make a lot of money without gettin' the volume that you need.

Somebody said, "I want to make more money." Let me tell you how. I don't have an extra one percent for you. I got an extra fifty-five to sixty-five percent for you. I'll tell you, folks, you can't beat that. But some of you have got a warped viewpoint of what makes a business operate; and once you get back to the idea that your business will grow in direct relationship to your ability to retail products, then you'll overcome the biggest mental handicap you have right now. And, maybe -- Let me tell you something. Maybe it's time you trusted the old, fifty-seven year old man instead of some people who been in this business a few years and have never worked it at the fundamental level, and they're telling you all about it. Well, let me tell you, maybe they don't know all about it. And I'll make some more comments about that as I go along:

The other question always comes up, you know, and it's -- it's a -- it's a good question: "Why didn't you bring it to the Board?" And maybe as I develop that theme for you a little bit you'll catch on to a few other things and maybe there'll be some applications to your own operations that you better start to think very seriously about.

Here's one of those letters: "We thought we voted on the Board to represent us." Well, you voted for people on the Board to do certain things and, indeed, to represent you and, indeed, to present your viewpoints and, indeed, to bring your opinions to us on all legal issues. But, whoever told you, and all those of you who say, "It should have come to the Board," whoever told you that doesn't know the law. Oh, they're experts. But they're -- You know, it's like a -- like this old, western cowboy used to say, you know -- He used to say, "All of us are ignorant, only on different subjects."

Now, you know, this is a very complex business world we live in, so let me put it to you real fast and straight. The Board is, indeed, an organization that represents your viewpoints. It indeed does visit with us on this business. But some of your so-called experts, who are telling you that it should have gone to the Board, don't know, is that for this company to discuss with the Board pricing on any product is a federal offense. It is known as price fixing. And we have a little experience with that and the FTC, by the way, that maybe your leader didn't tell you about or he forgot about it.

Maybe you've been reading in the papers lately about the president of a major airline, who casually said to his competitor, "Why don't you raise your prices twenty percent, and I'll raise mine?" And he has now been charged with a federal crime. Simple little statement. And, so, whoever told you that you must insist we bring it to the Board doesn't know what they're talking about.

But, you know, there's problems beyond that one. Let me just bring up another little side issue for you, and not too incidental. Some of you are screaming at us on the twenty percent. Some of you self-righteously say, "Oh, we have less than twenty percent in tapes and books and side issues in our other business." The Amway Corporation does in excess of a billion. If we only did ten percent -- not just in books and tapes; but let's talk about rallies and all the other things we tell our people to pay for; put it all together.

Let's assume we're taking out a hundred million dollars a year. We have placed a maximum on tapes and books at two hundred million that we would allow. I don't know what you might allow. But when you get into those kinds of numbers, if you want to hear a scandal, just read about it in the papers. You present wonderful numbers on the blackboard about all the money they can make. Maybe you ought to tell them about all you're going to take from them before they make any. Maybe that would be the rest of the story. But, you see, those are fantastic numbers. Our legal people tell us, "Boy, if it gets over ten percent!" Finally, they agreed, that maybe somewhere between ten and twenty is acceptable. Maybe that would be considered reasonable by governmental authorities. We assume it will be. We really hope it never gets to those numbers.

We didn't start out with BV on tapes to get to those numbers. We didn't start out with it to capture the market. We put it in, by the way, to be a competing force and to draw your attention to the kind of potential abuse that we thought was there, which we now know is there, with a kind of power and pressure I never believed; and I am not going to take all afternoon to read you the horror stories of the people who say, "I'm connected with such and such a system. I have $8,000 worth of their tapes in my basement. They will not take them back," and the others who were told to mortgage their houses, cash in their life insurance, told to go to the bank to borrow because this big weekend seminar was so important. Well, that's extracting money.

Let me talk to you about the legal side, beyond price fixing, that deals with pyramids, that deals with the illegal operation of a business that does not have an end consumer, where the product is not retailed. That would include all books and tapes. The sad news, folks, is that when those things go out that way and they become excessive, beyond my ten or twenty percent theoretical guideline, hopefully acceptable, to where it's a reasonable support system, but not beyond the reasonable element, then it becomes an out and out illegal pyramid. Why BV on tapes? That's why. It was time to bring some reasonableness to all of this. We also didn't take it to the Board, by the way, because we didn't really want to put a Board member on the spot. We have Board members who operate pretty big systems. It would have been a kind of an embarrassment to put him in the crossfire; so we just decided not to even discuss it at that level. Despite the fact that it would have been illegal to do so, we just decided it would have been the wrong place to talk about it, because we had to move to tend to some of the problems that I've just been discussing with you.

Well, let me pause a minute and look through my grab bag of mail a minute and see if I can't find if what -- a few other good examples for you and then plead with you to do some very simple things. It's time to get on track. That's all. It's time to do some very simple things, and they are ail outlined in the Ten Points that I gave you in last month's tape. And if you haven't listened to it, listen to it again; because there's no sense in my going all through it now. But, in truth, those Ten Points embody all the elements of what we want to talk about.

And, now, let me give you some of the other expressions that I've received and -- without trying to be negative on it; just trying to touch the high points here. Here's a little list. I'll kind of run through some of 'em. "You just want the tape business, you greedy monster." That's a great question, isn't it? I really don't want the tape business. As I told you before, if the tape business becomes a big business, I'm going to have to cut it down to size. I'm going to have to restrict it. I don't want it to be a big business. I want it to be exactly what it should be; and that is a reasonable, economical, for the industry better support system to the [selling] and sponsoring in the Amway Plan. That's all I want.

If the tape business becomes substantial and earns substantial dollars, I have a couple of choices, one of which is to lower the prices; because we want to keep it at a reasonable level. Why? Because the goal of Amway has always been one, and that is to give the average guy on the street, who's scared to death of his mother-in-law, a chance to make a new beginning. That's the principle. We didn't start this business to see what we could take from him. We started this business to see what we could help them achieve; and I'm afraid some of you got the business backwards. I'm not sure some of you are in the Amway business. You really don't care whether that guy achieves. You like to think you do. You give me long letters about how -- I got one here, and, you know, it says, "Before I got in using tapes" my business was so much. Now that I'm using tapes, it's doubled." Now I'm a Diamond, and I have done so well; and it's all because of the tapes." I -- I'm -- I'm glad it -- it worked for you, Diamond. I'm proud of you. Why don't I have a hundred thousand Diamonds if all it takes is the tapes? Why, it's so easy. Just give 'em the tapes, and they're Diamonds next week. Or does it take four years? Who you kidding? Who's been telling you that stuff? Do the tapes help? Sure, they help. Do meetings help? Sure, they help. Are they the answer between winning and losing? No, they are not.

Our achievement numbers haven't changed at all with this tremendous burden of systems. I and you cannot prove an any higher ratio of achievement than you had before. Are they better people for it? Possibly. Is it a good way of communication? Absolutely. Does it help get good ideas through the organization quickly and effectively? You bet your life it does. And, therefore, it is a helpful device.

Don't get me wrong. Don't say I said tapes were bad. I have never said tapes were bad, because we sold 'em long before you did. We think they're a super means of communication. Do I have a problem with big meetings and rallies? Lands no. I was putting on big meetings and rallies before some of you ever got out of your diapers. I made speeches on that stuff thirty years ago, before huge meetings. Some of you act like that's all new stuff. That's not new stuff. It's only a question of how you operate it and where you price it and whether the people feel it's worth it. And I've got to tell you, you got to review that carefully. And a little competition will help keep you in line, too.

Side B

We11, let's try another one, since I am so greedy. "Why didn't you do it sooner? Why do it now? It will be devisive." Now, those are good questions. We been lookin' at it for three or four years. Three years ago we talked about it. Some of you sent letters, said, "Why don't you put BV on tapes?" I can remember some of you guys who were in big tape programs begging us to put BV on tapes years ago. We considered it. We kept thinking the problem would go away. We thought competition between the people and the field would keep the pricing down. But it didn't work that way.

There was a subtle pressure put into this organization that I never felt would exist. I watch people being intimidated, threatened, coerced, scared. My mail has got in it letters from p
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#28 Consumer Suggestion

Look Here For Facts

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

You might consider looking for a credible source for facts about this company. There is a website at www.amquix.info that has a Dateline NBC report on the company along with results of research that didn't get on the show. This site has audio files from the "Directly Speaking tapes" by Rich DeVos, co-founder of Amway. There is also audio from Ken McDonald, Managing Director of Quixtar, among others.

There is also information on Amway's cases at the FTC in 1979 and 1986. It also talks about the bill HR1220 in Congress in 2003 which Quixtar supported that would legalize pyramid schemes. There is also information on other lawsuits against Amway and Quixtar as well. If you Google "truth about Quixtar" you will find a lot in interesting information.

It is poor judgment to do business with a company that has a questionable reputation, and permit people who represent them to participate in deceptive business practices.

Here is text from the Directly Speaking tapes:
Directly Speaking, January 1983,
Spoken by Rich DeVos
Amway Cassette Series VA-2160
Well, this is Rich DeVos in Ada, Michigan, coming forth once again to chat a little bit with you, and to share a few ideas, and a little information and some of the things that are going on. The primary purpose to this tape is to communicate to you some of the things that went on at the Diamond Club in Hawaii, and I guess partly to make sure we have the least amount of rumors and the most amount of facts running around as to where we're coming at you from.

I guess another reason to talk to you right now has to do with what we've seen on "60 Minutes" -- what we're seeing on other television programs around the country, and some of the challenges that seem to be coming our way at this time.

At the Diamond Club, I -- referred to them as "warts." Randy Preston said, "Maybe you ought to call them 'blemishes,'" but I do not think that's strong enough. Now let's first of all understand that I am not talking to new Distributors -- this is not a sponsoring meeting -- I am talking to you as Direct Distributors, as the heads of your organizations, as the ones that this company deals with and looks to to carry on the leadership role in this organization. Now I recognize there are other awards, and every award level, by the way, claims that they are the true leadership, but as I told you when I was on the road with you, this Plan gears around the simple fact that every Direct Distributor is in charge of their business, they are the owners of it, they run it and they are the level to which we look to meet the day-to-day responsibilities in the field organization.

So I'm talking to you as the leaders of the organization. I hope you have all due respect for all the people below you and all the people above you, and that's just super. I must emphasize to you, however, that you're the leadership, on a day-to-day in dealing with your organization. Therefore, it's important you know some of these things, and so, maybe we can give 'em to you straight and maybe share some of our concerns with you.

Every since "60 Minutes" appeared, we have been inundated by mail. Both pro and con. I think in all honesty I must tell you that the outside world, the people who are in business, the people who are in government, the people who watch "60 Minutes" quite regularly and critically and have a knowledge of media and so forth -- generally feel we came out very, very well.

Paul Harvey called me the other day and said, "You guys did a great job, I'm proud of ya." And he wanted to call just to congratulate us. The head of a major university's business school, I talked with him yesterday, and (unintelligible) "Boy, you guys did as good as anybody's ever done. I was proud of ya. In fact, I had a bunch of people in just to watch ya, because I knew you'd do well." Well, that's fine, but the inside report from Distributors goes all the way from frustration to outright anger. People who say they distorted us, they didn't show anything good about us, they could do was find a few failures and show the extremes and why did ya pick those people, and why didn't ya pick somebody else -- and all those rumors you got in your mind, and some of those frustrations also.

Well, let me give you the background on "60 Minutes," it might help you a bit. We were first approached a long time ago. We tried to put it off, we told them we didn't think we were a good subject for the show, but they said they were going to do a show, with or without us. And we finally took it upon ourselves to say that if they're going to do it anyway, then we're not going to dodge it -- even if it's a disaster, we're at least going to stand for what we believe and if they don't put our thoughts on the tape, well that's up to them. But we're not going to run from it.

We had no control over the people they used. They took tape from all over the country. They taped people on the West Coast, they taped people on the East Coast and they chose to run the portion they ran. Now, you may not have liked, or I may not have liked it -- it's unimportant. That was their choice. The fact of the matter, however, is that watch you saw is what was being presented at an Amway meeting. And I'm not going to knock it and say it was so bad -- it's just that when you take a little piece out of a big meeting, it can look not as good as you'd like to have it. You know, if you and I sit in a meeting for three or four hours and we hear somebody say a few things like that, we'd applaud. We'd say "Yeah, right on, and soar with the eagles -- why not?" But when ya suddenly see that little section, one minute long, taken out of context and flashed on a screen, it doesn't look quite the same. Does it? When a person stands up and says "I'm going to have a ring for every finger..." You know, I say sometimes at a Direct Distributor meeting where we're on a talk about getting ahead in life and having some of the finer things in life, that sounds pretty good. But when it's on a national television screen, as though it represented all of us, and that all we think about is greed, or money, or rings, or cars, or buses, or whatever, then it doesn't look very good.

Now, let's face it -- you and I know that's not the whole story -- they know it's not the whole story -- and those that don't like us come to their own conclusion. But you see, when you grab thirty seconds or a minute out of a whole meeting, you get a distorted view. That wasn't the whole meeting - there was lot more to the meeting, and probably much more balanced in the meeting, but that isn't what they chose to show, and so it comes off that way.

Now let's, therefore just -- not get excited about it, figure we came out of it 50-50, 60-40. We wish it had been a 15 minute ad but it wasn't. It wasn't all bad, it wasn't all good, but it did show a presentation of how we sometimes look.

Now, we also have got -- some of you know -- some problems in other states with legal authorities, we -- who -- also say we're not saying it right, we're not presenting the Plan correctly, we're overclaiming and understating what'cha have to do.

We have guys in the -- Legal field -- uh, Attorneys General -- who don't like our curiosity approach, and -- and, so we've tried to -- lay before the Diamonds and I'm trying to lay before you and -- and -- really asking for your help. We've got to find a way to make a better image.

You know, one of the reasons we use the curiosity approach is because people have preconceived ideas of what Amway is. You and I know what it really is, but they have a distorted or warped view; and therefore, if they thought they were coming to an Amway function, they would probably say "No" because of their preconceived ideas. Therefore, would we do is use the curiosity approach, but when it's used indirectly, all we do is give a further bad image for the organization. And people begin to say, "What's the matter, are you ashamed of what you're in? Do you have to be tricky, deceitful, lie to get me to come to a meeting? Tell me it's a fund-raiser, tell me it's a -- it's a how to save money on taxes -- it's a social event" -- whatsa matter with you people, what happened to your ethics? And I have to tell you, that what we're running in to. And that's why we're asking for your total help to stamp out the curiosity approach. If you can't use it correct, then don't use it at all. Then invite them to an Amway meeting, and when they tell you they know all about that, then ask them some questions, such as, "If you know all about it, how does the Diamond Bonus work. How does the Emerald bonus work? Do you know how how profit-sharing works." When they say, "No, I don't know that," then you jump right on them and say "You don't know about Amway, you better come to the meeting.

(Unintelligible) . . . that's how you overcome that, but I'd rather have you have to go through that little verbal battle rather to deceive a person and tell them it's not an Amway meeting and then when they get there an hour after they sat down they discover it is an Amway meeting. You know, that's deception, that infuriates people, and that gives this company, and you, a bad image. And so we need your help on some of that stuff, we just got to clean it up.

I get too many letters in here from people who are still being told, "You don't have to sell products, we're in a marketing group, we're just in a marketing outfit. No selling is necessary." Now you know, that's a lie. (Unintelligible) . . . you can't stay in this business and be a liar and expect us to have a decent image, and I need your help.

Those aren't big things, those are just little things, but you know, we're a big company and we no longer can afford to do little things wrong, because everybody's watching what we do, and therefore we got to do even the little things right -- now, I know you're growing up in business and you're -- you're just trying to get business and you don't know all of the legal ramifications, you don't know all the complications, you just do things because you think you're -- you're doing them right, but that's why we insist that you must do them our way, not because you're dumb or inept or a jerk, we ask you to do 'em our way because this is a complicated business and this is a complicated world, and there are certain ways that are right and other ways that are wrong. And I need your help -- when I say, "Do it our way," that not to take your creativity away, it's just that with a million of us out there and each got their own little twist or turn or idea, and they think it's cute, it may be cutely illegal, possibly improper and could be creating a bad image that we were talking about. Now we addressed all that stuff at Diamond Club and I -- I told all the Diamonds I need their help, I'm telling you I need you're help on cleaning up some of these situations.

Now, I got -- as we said -- I got stacks of letters that came in -- I -- I can't tell you how many of people have written. Hundreds and thousands -- and here's -- here's -- just one letter from one dear lady from the East -- and I won't give her name, I didn't do it for that reason, she's talking about "60 Minutes:

"Please don't misunderstand, but a number of people not even in the business stated to me that you did not come out strong enough against the hype, hoopla, exaggerated claims and obvious mixing of born-again, fundamentalist revivalism with business that was shown."

Then she goes on to say:

"I have no idea, of course, why they edited it that way, but, they did."

Now, I can . . . (unintelligible) . . . I can . . . her letter is many pages long, and she told how -- she finally switched groups because she was so tired of that sort of treatment. Still in the business, but still got a bad taste in her mouth.

You know, I got another one over here. And this is the stuff I am receiving, and it comes in the backwash of "60 Minutes." Somebody said:

"I consider myself to be the victim of aggressive Directs and their upline. I got caught in an ambitious and aggressive group."

If this was an exception letter, you guys and gals, I wouldn't beat it at ya. I got too many of 'em, and therefore I'm going to share it with you, although I know that it's a little negative, but I have to get to you, I have to get your attention that we have to do some things to change our image, and we need to the help of all of you.

(Unintelligible) . . . I consider myself to be an -- ambitious, aggressive group. Directs, that was (sic) determined to reach their set goal at the expense of the Distributors, come hell or high water. Their philosophy, "Mortgage your home, cash in your insurance, get a bank loan and borrow from whosoever will loan you.
We were told in our, and I'll leave the name out because it would identify the organization, in our so and so meeting, certain things discussed were to remain within the walls wherein discussed or suggested.

Then the goes on to tell how he was harassed at this job.

Whoever was teaching that, and it was not some little new Direct, was teaching an illegal, immoral, improper system. I can't tolerate it.

You know, we've been talkin' to you for years that you don't buy a position in Amway, you earn it, and, here, blatantly, being taught inside a meeting, and then being told don't tell anybody, are methods that go contrary to everything we've heard.

We've always said you earn your position in Amway and you don't buy it. And here I see it being done, and I want to tell you, we're -- monitoring new Directs, we're monitoring anybody who gets a higher award, we have a whole department today that is monitoring, just because we have some people who got abusive with it.

Now, I just got to lay these things on you, I -- I need your attention, and I -- some of you guys who are doing it is the one (sic) I am talking to. I'm not talking to the rest of you. But some of you continue doing things that we are not going to tolerate, and we are in the process of establishing a whole new policing department in this company, because we have been unable to voluntarily get you to decide to do the things that are right and will improve the image that we have.

Here's another person, and that's the last one I'm gonna read to ya, but she -- she chew me out. And, so -- uh, you know, turn-about's fair play, they say, and I don't doubt that. She said, "I'm painfully aware that I'm very insignificant cog in the big company wheel." But for what it is worth my opinion is that our president, Rich DeVos, for whom I have the greatest respect, is now obligated to bite the bullet and act on his own voiced beliefs. I recall two of the very impressive statements which punctuates (sic) my point.

The first is a quote from a 1965 recording of the "Four Winds," where he told the Junior Achievers, "Before you go out to clean up the world, you had better learn how to clean up your own room." Boy, how's that for having' it thrown back at you?

And how right it is, and how right-on it is, that a person would do that.

She goes on to say -- I had another quote, which I put on a tape right after the Manifesto came out: "If we are allowed to pick and choose the rules by which we will abide, and ignore the others, then we have chaos."

Wow, that's a direct quote, from another person. As I told you, they come in by the stacks. I take 'em home by the pile at night, and just sit there are read through them, wishing I could answer all of them, but many of them carry this message, that we've got some things to do.

Well, that's partly what we addressed when we were in Hawaii. By the way, I do have one more here, I see it on the bottom of my list, and . . . and he's gettin' on my case, he says, "You gotta do something to change this image of this company." Well, I wish I could tell you that we're gonna buy Bob Hope, and he's gonna be on television, he's going to be sponsored by Amway, and that that's gonna change it. Well, it's not going to change it. It will help, 'cause he's willing to come on the line for Amway and talk about Amway -- you'll love the ads, by the way, they're great, and it will get to a lot of people.

There's only one thing we can do the change the image, you've got to do some things about the way we are conducting ourselves in this business to correct them. Therefore, what I got down to at the Diamond Club, by the way, and this sort of fell out afterwards, you know -- one of the things that we announced at the Diamond Club -- and it -- Amway has been working for three years on the matter of how to cope with the tape business. Should the company get in it, should it stay out of it, how far should it get in it, should it have -- uh, uh -- dollar amounts paid to certain levels, pin levels -- should it -- should it -- have BV -- shouldn't it have -- we have just put it off all these years.

But you know, we finally concluded, and that's what I announced at Diamond Club, that we are going to put BV on tapes. By the ways, our tapes in the United States will sell for $2.50 and in Canada they'll be $2.95, we will pay full BV -- now understand, no PV -- so you'll get the Business volume. The reason for that is a very simple one, so that you get the Point Value out of this business by doing your regular Amway business. However, because of the cost of doing some of the motivational materials and handling tapes, you can get business volume on it.

In other words, you can't make Direct by selling tapes. You make Direct by selling the regular line Amway products, but you will get Business Volume on the other. Now, from our standpoint, that's the kind of a simple things, you know, that's absolutely consistent with the Plan, it awards everybody fairly in relationship to what they do in it, it protects the upline, it protects the downline, and it was kind of a simple thing.

Uh -- primary reason was because we got a lot of people in this business who don't have a tape program and they're saying, "Why don't you put something out; that's legal and proper," and we finally said fine. We're going to put out legally clear tapes that give it straight, and that you can rely on, we're going to put them out at a price we think it right, we'll put a little BV on 'em so that you recover some of the costs, and -- we have a little hooker in there, by the way -- the BV on tapes can never exceed twenty percent of your total Business Volume. Now, I haven't figured out what to do if you go to twenty-one percent, but we will, we may just not pay you on it -- because when your tape volume becomes so great in relationship to your regular business, then you are no longer in the Amway business -- you're in the tape business.

Now, the tape business, if it is not used as a support for the Amway business, will oftentimes be an illegal business -- in fact, it could be called a pyramid -- because, d -- does not get sold to the consumer. Which means that all the tape business does is take money out of the organization, and because the final person can't retail it, it never brings money into the organization. Now, I'm not arguing about the value of it -- we accept the fact that motivation is vital to this business. Good, honest motivation is important to the business. But, it must be motivation that builds the business -- not become a business in itself.

And some of you have made it a business unto itself. And you're making a lot of money on it, and all I'm saying to you, well, I can't tell you whether you can or you can't, I can't tell you whether it's legal or illegal, I'm not checking on your business right now. But we have to provide an alternative to the Direct Distributor in this business in a fair and legal and honest manner as a support device for the main business. And so we decided to put BV on tapes.

We really didn't think it was a big deal. I was a little surprised, and I am surprised today to the reaction of some people to our doing this. (Unintelligible) . . . "You're cutting into my tape business, you can't do that." Listen, we've been putting out motivational materials in this company for 23 years. We've been putting out tapes longer than anybody in the business. The mere fact that we decide to put BV on it is a corporate decision, we make corporate decisions everyday to make a product a sales aid, or to put it in BV. We do those things everyday. So our doing this was not a big deal from the corporate standpoint, and so we're a little surprised. We never really considered it being confrontational, we considered it as a way to take care of all the good, Direct Distributors in this business and letting him share in some of the dollars in it, for motivation, as long as it didn't get out of control and become their main business, and that's why the controls are placed in it.

I really find it hard for anybody to argue with Amway putting some profit in tape -- uh -- for the Direct Distributors -- uh -- even though I've gotten some of that reaction, but that's a whole subject, and -- I just, we just dropped the tape thing there, and -- and we'll move on to the -- the bigger picture, you know, the bigger thing -- by the way, that's effective March 1, and uh, you'll be getting price lists and notifications on it, and those of you that don't have a good tape program or any tape program it's -- we think we're going to begin to offer you a good program you can offer to your organization in balance to motivate your people, uh -- I'm not trying to push them, I'm not trying to jam 'em at ya -- I'm just saying that if you feel there is a need for more tapes in your group for motivational reasons, we're going to have some available. Uh, and so -- uh -- we don't call it a program or a system, we just are adding BV to our tapes and going to expand our tape library to better serve those of you that have a need for such a thing.




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Side B

Another upshot of everything else, therefore, at the Diamond Club, and all the discussion, led me to challenge the Diamonds, and I -- I want to challenge you with 'em today. I may have sounded a little angry to you. I'm not really angry. I'm just -- I'm concerned. I -- I am vitally concerned about the image that this Company is portraying. And I think we've got some bad actors in this business, and you know we have. And I am imploring all of you to do two things. Number one, clean up your act. And number two, if you know people who are continuing to do things improperly after all of this, then I want you to write us a note and just tell us who's doing it. Don't -- I don't need 419's right now. I just want to know so we can track the improper ones: And if we find somebody is cross-grouping, and if somebody's coming to you and asking you to buy their system or their tape program, then you let us know, 'cause that's cross-grouping. And just put it in a letter.

Say, "so-and-so came in to see me today to try to get me to sell their stuff." And, you see, then we can put a quick track on anybody who is violating one of the basic principles of this organization. And we'll begin to spot them; and we'll get to them. And then we can take our action from there. But we need your help on getting us some of that information. But, more than that, we need your help in making sure the way you're doing it is proper in your own group.

These are the ten things I put before the Diamonds, and let me just put 'em before you. I asked the Diamonds, by the way, that if they agreed with these Ten Points to write me a letter or to stick it on the note pad that was in front of them in the meeting room. All they had to say to me was, "Rich, I agree with you. We support those Ten Points, and we will teach them to our people. And, you know, I received such letters from almost everybody who was there. Not everybody, but I did receive them from most of the Diamonds. So I have them in my file, and I know who has pledged their support to uphold these things. And while we're not in a meeting and I can't ask you exactly the same thing in the same way, to hand it to me when the meeting's over with, and scribble it on a piece of paper, if you feel so inclined, you might want to write a note and say, "Rich, I support your Ten Points, and I'm gonna uphold them in our group, and I'm gonna teach them to our people and see if we can't clean up our business so we can present a better image to the world." So, I'm not -- I'm not necessarily going to take a role call on it, but if you feel that way, sometimes, you know, it helps your own commitment, and it might make you feel a little better to let us know where you stand. Just say, "I am with you." Just stick it on a postcard. I don't care. Just say, "Rich, I stand with you on the Ten Points," and we can go from there.

Now, here they are. They're not very complicated, but they do get down to some of the nitty-gritty, and I'll explain them to you as I go.

Number One: I will unplug from any group, up or down, which is not in my line of sponsorship.
You know, a lot of you, got your fingers dirty. You got your hands a little bit into somebody else's group, or you're dealing into somebody else's group that's not in your line of sponsorship, or you're getting stuff from somebody. I'm just asking you to unplug it. Tend to your own business; stay in your own line; deal only with the people you sponsor. The other people are not in your group; they are not your business; and if you are a believer in this Plan, then you'll believe in the principle. If it's okay for you to intrude somebody else's group, then it's okay for them to intrude yours. If it's okay for you to intrude somebody else's group; then it's okay for somebody above you to go around you and intrude your distributors below you. You and I know you can't tolerate that. We can't stand it, and you've got to agree to stand on it. If you do, send me a note. I know, there are some old, historical associations. Some of you had 'em goin' back ten years. I'm not going to come running over and try and police it; but I'm saying you should start to think in terms of unplugging and gettin' your act cleaned up.
Number Two: I will only use Amway-produced literature in the presentation of the Plan and will use only the figures Amway gives.
We have a major lawsuit going right now with an attorney general in one of the states based on people making what they say are excess claims and telling people they hardly have to work at all, telling them you can make $50,000.00 a year and you only have to work twelve hours a week. Now, you and I both know, you know; that -- that just can't be put up with. And, therefore, I have a very simple statement to you: Don't create numbers of your own. You use the numbers and the literature we give you, and nobody else's. You don't have any tapes in your group to teach you how to present the Plan other than the one Amway has. That's what I mean by following Rule Two.
Number Three: I will not make my willingness to help a distributor conditioned on their purchasing my Tape of the Week or anything else I sell, which is beyond the basic Amway-supplied material.
I tell you why that's in there. I got too many letters from people who have told me that they were told that if they didn't support their upline and buy his or her tapes, then they would not give them any help. I can't put up with that. It is a sponsor's responsibility to train, motivate and supply their people. That's for the privilege of being the sponsor; not whether they buy some extra things you've decided to sell. If you have people in your group that you don't want, then let us know and we'll reassign them to somebody else; because if you're unwilling to take care of them because you are willing to sponsor them, then let me know. There are no conditions on servicing distributors. All of your distributors are serviced the best you know how, whether they buy a tape of the Week from you or not.
Number Four: If I offer tapes, books and rallies, they will always be presented on a voluntary basis. No strings, no pressure, and no force.
And by 'force' I mean such as saying to somebody in your group that "You must take ten tickets. You must take a hundred tickets. Here's your hundred tickets. Pay me for 'em. You better get rid of 'em. We're going to fill this hall. Or saying, "You must subscribe to Tape of the Week, or I won't work with you." That's force. You know, you offer these things, but you do that voluntarily. If you do it that way, fine. It doesn't diminish your willingness to work with them. Pure, voluntary use of support materials. By the way, you ought to be very careful, because the moment you do anything more than what I am saying to you to do, which is voluntarily offer them, you are going to run the risk of having an employer/employee relationship. That's the last thing you need.
Number Five: If I teach the curiosity approach, it will be in accordance with Rule Six, as passed out at the end of the meeting.
Well, I can't pass it out to you today, but Rule Six really says if you're going to use curiosity, you must tell them they are coming to a business-type opportunity meeting. You may not tell 'em it's a social event or a coffee or a church event or a fund-raising event or a how-to-save-money-on-taxes event. All that is deception. You must tell 'em it's a business opportunity meeting. If they ask you if it's Amway, you say 'yes.' That's what the Rule says. If I were doing it, I would say to people ahead of time, and I wanted to use curiosity, "I'm not going to tell you what it is, but I want you to come." If they said to me, "If that's the way it is, I'm not going to come," I'd say, "Well, fine, then, say home: You spent all your life telling me that you wanted to get ahead, you weren't happy with your conditions in life, you don't like your job; and now I ask you if you'll give me two hours to come and hear about something and you tell me you're not going to come. (inaudible) stay home." See? Don't beg people. Finally, you get down to challenging them to come or not come.
Number Six: I will not produce any literature or tapes about the Plan or the products.
I know you present the Plan magnificently, but what you don't always know are the fine points that we have to cover in all fifty states, plus satisfying the government, to make sure we say it exactly right. And that's why we cannot permit you to produce any such materials.
Number Seven: I will not hide behind group names.
We are proud of our group and like our own identity, but we will not use it as a subterfuge to say we are not in Amway. This really is a hot one, folks. People are saying, "Oh, we're in X-Y-Z organization. We're not in Amway." If you are signed on an Amway application form and if you have anyone you sponsor who's linked to you, then you are in Amway. I don't care what other name you want to run under: By implication, you are saying you're not in Amway: If you are asked, then you must say, "I am in Amway." And if you're not willing to say that, then don't send me any letters.
Number Eight: We will work together to build our own businesses while creating an organization that truly cares about every distributor in it. We will talk about the big picture -- no problem -- while making sure we do not diminish those who choose to do less or make them feel like losers.
I hear that very often. "There's winners and losers. Are you a winner? Are you a loser?" Almost insulting people who don't sign up. You even got bad terminology. "We're the winners. Over here are the losers in life." They're not losers. They may have a richer, fuller life than those of you that got fancy cars and new clothes or big rings have got. You know, they -- Life is not geared by materialism. You do not decide who's a winner or a loser. There's too -- Life is too complicated for that. We must make sure we always speak of everybody being a winner, even though they may have different goals. My plea here is that when you have a program, you make sure you have people on there who are making $100.00 and thrilled with it, as well as those who make more. Present it as a plan so that everybody can realize their goal, whatever it is.
Number Nine: While recognizing the importance of financial goals, we will attempt to use tact, t-a-c-t, and dignity so as not to create an image of just money, money, money. Together we will create an organization, which loves and cares for each distributor, regardless of level, and an organization which will be of service in our communities.
I don't mind you're making money. I don't mind your enjoying the things that money will buy. But I do have a problem of presenting an image of an organization that has nothing in it but greed, that has no concern for the poor or the hungry or for what's going an in their community. It is time, folks, we changed our image and showed an image of a company and of individuals who care about other people, no matter where they are economically. And that while you may want to quietly talk about your new cars or your fancy rings, you also talk to people about the other values that the Amway business brings, such as the wonderful idea of being associated with people who are positive, the great and good things that happen by -- by making an extra $100.00 a month, the fun of -- of being in an organization that is in a positive frame of mind. All the other, little things we don't talk about: the joy of bringing up our children in an atmosphere of positive thinking; you know, have our kids hang around people -- the joy of having our kids see something else other than the back yards of their neighbors' houses and never get more than fifty miles out of town, to be able to open your children's minds to music and to the arts. All of that is what we got to talk about, not just whether we're making some more money.
And Number Ten: I agree with the principle and will observe the rules relating to PV/BV transfers. We will do all we can to make sure no PV/BV is transferred to anyone who did not honestly buy it and who was complying with the seventy percent rule.
In other Words, I need a pledge that you will not inventory load, that you will not push a bunch of stuff on somebody to win a pin or to earn a trip; but that they will, indeed, have not only bought the Amway products, but have, in turn, sold them so that they got retail and the money came back in. In direct contrast to what I read to you in a letter earlier, "go out and borrow the money to make it." I could tell you horror stories about every company I've ever lived with and fought against, who did inventory loading, asking people to borrow money to make a pin level. We have watched at least a hundred such companies come, and we have watched all of them go; and they are all broke and long gone. We cannot tolerate this business. We must stick to the principle that the people we hang pins on did so because they built a strong, Amway-centered business, built on what they did conforming with the rules of rewarding people on the basis of performance, not on the basis of their ability to beg, borrow or steal money.
Well, that's quite a Directly Speaking tape. Heavy? Well, maybe. But, you know, folks, this is a serious time. What you saw on "60 Minutes" was probably not all to your liking; it was not to mine. But the beautiful part of it is that Mike Wallace, when he was here, said, "You know, this is the most phenomenal thing." He was intrigued with the lives we were touching and the things we were doing. He was intrigued with the motivation, the lifting up, the spirit of the people. He was convinced; when he went to shoot those pictures at that meeting in North Carolina, that he would find nothing but Bible-belt Baptists, all white, only to find blacks and Jews from New York City, all mixed in. He said, "We couldn't believe it. This was a cross-section of America, people trying to get ahead, and we were impressed." Well, they may not have shown that in their programming, but, you see, we know that they could have done a lot worse for us. And, so, we're grateful to them for showing us our warts and for helping us to remind ourselves that we got to "clean up our own room," as the one lady wrote and placed it so well. That if we are really going to go out and impact this world, we got to do it with clean hands. And right now, some of you have got to ask yourself these ten questions. Some of you have got to ask yourself whether you're really in the Amway business or whether you're in the tape business. You got to ask yourself whether you're really in the rally business or in the Amway business. You must ask yourself if everything you're doing is to support your Amway business or is it really for a secondary motive. We are, of course, a little prejudiced. But, you see, it is the Amway Plan that you run under, and we really cannot tolerate people running under the Amway Plan and then doing such things that destroy the image of all other Amway distributors.

And, so, we're off and running. We're on to the subject, and I hate to confront you with it. But I think for most of you, you'll recognize that if we aren't careful with our image, some day it'll be so bad, you won't be able to sponsor anybody. And then there won't be any sense in talking about it anymore. But right now, this night, at the meetings you have today, with the people with whom you talk today, is the time to make sure you present the Plan as a plan that offers opportunity geared on hard work and that you approach people honestly and straight-forward and don't try to deceive them, and then you don't try to push stuff on your nice distributors because you make money on it when it may or may not be totally necessary for them.

I know some of the tapes are magnificent. I know they're important, and I know rallies are important, and I know books are important. I know all that's important -- all important within balance. Out of balance, it can destroy us.

And so, we're on the road. Thanking you again for a great year and thanking you ahead of time for your cooperation because it is my belief that each one of you, when you realize what's really going on in this business, will say, "Rich, you're right. I'm with you. We do got to clean up our act. And it isn't just in the other guy's group. I got some stuff to do with my own group." And if all of us will take that to heart right now, we will begin to build the new Amway, based on sponsoring people in a very simple, straight-forward manner, to join the fastest-growing, most magnificent outfit in the world that offers people at the bottom of the rung a chance to make a beginning. And we will focus our attention on selling products.

Expo is just hitting the road. It will be in Atlanta next week for its opening thing.

Dick, my son Dick, and Roger just came back from Cleveland where they built it; and they said it is absolutely magnificent; it is going to stun them when they see this new traveling show. We have two new semi's that are traveling across the country, carrying this from city to city. Bring every customer you get. In fact, go get ten of your friends who think you're nuts for being in Amway. Invite 'em over for dinner and say, "We're going to go to the Amway Expo." Or tell 'em you're going to take 'em out to show 'em the Amway Expo and

[page of transcript missing]

So we'll be in touch with you. We'll see you all, and thanks for being great people.

This is Rich in Ada with great gratitude for all of you. Bye-bye.




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CERTIFICATE



STATE OF OHIO )
) SS:
COUNTY OF HAMILTON )


I, KATHLEEN M. McCLELLAN, a Court Reporter and Notary
Public for the State of Ohio, commissioned and qualified, do
hereby certify that the foregoing twenty-nine (29) pages
constitutes a true, correct and complete transcript of Directlv
Speaking, Rich De Vos, Amway Cassette Series VAL-2l50, which was
transcribed by me and/or under my direction.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and
notarial seal at Cincinnati, Ohio, this 29th day of March, 1985.

Directly Speaking, Date Unknown
(probably Feb. or March 1983),
Spoken by Rich DeVos
Amway Cassette Series VA-2160
sounds/directly_speaking_II.zip Directly Speaking II - side A in .mp3 (3.6Megs) Directly Speaking II - side B in .mp3 (2.6Megs)

Side A

Well, here we are again in Ada, Michigan, and this is Rich. You might not know it, but today is my birthday. It's the 4th day of March, and I'm 57; so you won't have to spend a lot of time discussing it. And since it's the second Directly Speaking tape dealing with some of the real challenges that this organization faces right now, I thought maybe we ought to kind of get back to some fundamentals a little bit and then see if we really can't answer a lot of the questions that have come to me.

My mailbag, since the last Directly Speaking tape, has been very heavy. Many, many of you have written letters, saying, "It's about time," "Thank goodness," "Hallelujah," and a few other joyful expressions. My desk became piled high with people saying, "I support you in your Ten Points." And if you haven't written such a letter and you feel that way, I'd still urge you to write it. We are down to a point of trying to find out who really supports this Amway program; and, if after listening to the last Directly Speaking tape you felt like you wanted to stand and yell and say, "We stand with you," and never bothered to write, it's important that you do.

Let me just see if I can't reiterate a few of the important things that I think are facing us right now, some principles that are involved. And it is, of course, the reason that I am writing, or, why I'm talking to you, as -- as Direct Distributors.

Someplace along the line, we lost sight of the fact that the Direct Distributor is the operating head of their organization. All due respect to the upline. I don't care who they are; I don't care what pin level they are. Many of you have heard me talk over and over again about the fact that if your sponsor did nothing more than tell you about Amway, they opened a door of opportunity for you; but only you can walk through it. And those of you that I'm talking to today are Direct Distributors; you took the challenge; you walked through that door, and you became a Direct Distributor in the world of Amway. In our book, that makes you the head, the star the outstanding performer, who, unlike many others who looked at it and listened and either turned it down or did nothing with it, you did, and you are to be commended.

I'm disturbed, because I find too many people are putting Directs down and saying, Oh, what are you? "You don't know enough," a Diamond's where it's at. And you know, it's true; we have a lot of awards at Diamond. But we decided a long time ago in this company that Direct Distributor is where it's at. After all, a Diamond is only a person who has six Direct Distributors, and a double Diamond is one who has twelve; but this whole Plan revolves around the leadership of the Direct Distributor. And that's, of course, why we're talking to you.

I'd like to get through some of the kind of negative stuff that's come on my desk, also. As I told you, I've a lot of positive responses. I also have a lot of horror stories, stories that must have been swept under the rug or hid behind the curtains, that should have been brought to our attention a long time ago -- and I know, in some of the cases, they were brought to our attention, and we did nothing about it; and I apologize to you for that. Maybe we overlook some things, maybe we are blind and maybe we swept some things under the rug, too, and thought it would just sort of go away. Only some of these things did not go away; they just got worse.

And, so let me see, now, if I can just take some of the questions that you've sent to me, some of them in anger, very mad at us for doing a simple thing, like putting BV on tapes. None of us here ever realized that we would cause to come out in the open all that has now come forward; but I must assure you that now that it is out in the open, we have no alternative but to move forcefully and directly on all the things that are now before us here. We cannot turn our back. We cannot sweep it under the rug. We must deal with it; and deal with it, we will. And we are developing the resources inside this company to attack it on a one-by-one basis.

One of the complaints that we received was, "Why do you always act as though we are all guilty when it's only some who are guilty? Why don't you praise the rest of us?" And, you know, I think that's a marvelous idea; and I do try to praise you. I -- I would praise you now for being who you are and where you are. But, you see, it's sort of like trying to find out where the problem is, only you don't know where the problem is; and, so, you sort of have to swing wide. And, in the process, yes, indeed, you do sometimes harm those you really should be loving. But I also found out that in the past, when we have done work to resolve specific problems and we didn't tell everybody about it, we got accused of not doing anything.

So, on the one hand, if I talk openly to all of you about some of the challenges, I am accused of painting everybody with a broad brush and making them feel quilty. On the other hand, if I don't talk to you openly about all of these problems, great numbers of you think we are doing nothing. And, therefore, as adults, as leaders of the business, which is what you are, as the operating heads, as the responsible party, we must share with you the problems of the business, as well as the challenges and the joys of the business. And, I guess, I must trust that you are big enough to cope with both of those; so that on the one hand, you don't get all bent out of shape because there are problems in the business and lose your excitement for it, and on the other hand, that you don't get carried away with your own power and greatness if we don't challenge you with some of these issues. So, I don't want you to get to where it goes to your head; and, by the same token, I -- I don't want to put you down; but I feel all of you must know what is happening, so that you can react intelligently to it. If you don't know what the problem is, sometimes you don't even know when you're being done in; and you should know some of those things that are happening... And so, we'll kind of lay it on you.

Let me take some of the kind of nasty ones first. They kind of come in groups, by the way. You can always tell when some person in the business -- perhaps in a leadership position -- has called together his Directs and given them the word, because a whole bunch of letters or telegrams come in; and they all say exactly the same thing. And, so, my first reaction to those kinds -- and I have a little stack of those in front of me is that obviously these people never thought the problem through. They are mouthing what somebody else has told them to say, and they run along the line like this: "What happened to your trust?" I don't know if I can trust you anymore," "You put BV on tapes," "You cause me great concern." Maybe -- let me read you one. "Disturbed by Directly Speaking tape. Lacks mutual trust and respect. Need two-way communication. Consider bonus increase at level price to cover inflated building cost at distance." Interesting. I don't have one of those; I have several of them. They go in a slightly different vain; but they're all saying, "You broke your trust when you put BV on tapes."

Well, let's just talk about trust a little bit. How can we be accused of breaking trust when all we did was do what they are asking us to do in the next sentence, put some more money in the Plan? You know, the first sentence says, "You've broken your trust;" the second sentence, "Put more money in the Plan." You know, you shouldn't have sent the telegram. We just did; we put more money in the Plan for the Direct Distributor and everybody who earns BV. Now, how can that break trust? I can see where, if we had decided to eliminate a bonus, to remove items from BV and ask you to handle them without anything, that you could accuse us of such a thing. I don't see how I can possibly be accused of breaking trust when we have, indeed, enriched the Plan and exactly in the form in which the Plan has always operated, which is a principle I think those who have written such telegrams have forgotten.

This Plan was geared around the sharing of the opportunity with everybody in the line of sponsorship. I think what some are saying to me is that we had a nice system that shared it with only certain, selected people in the Plan; we split the money amongst the Diamonds and the Emeralds; we didn't give it to anybody else. Trust? Whose trust? Whose trust was betrayed? All those good sponsors who brought you all those other people who were walked over, stepped on and bypassed? Do they deserve your trust? And then to question whether we should be trusted, who have protected the Plan, is really an insult to me.

I am further fascinated, by the way, with this whole idea of "put more money in the Plan, but don't raise the prices." I've heard that, you know, for a long time. I guess, what that says to me, from a person who hasn't thought it through, "Give us more. Take it out of the company's coffers; but don't charge more to the customer." Sounds good, doesn't it? Sounds like the same kind of a problem that got the automotive industry in trouble; like the same kind of a problem that got the steel company in trouble; like the same kind of problems that have seen businesses go down the drain forever, which is, "Oh, just raise the prices; give us more money." No way, folks. There just is no way to continue to pay people more money for doing the same amount of work.

In one of the telegrams, it said, "But we have to travel great distances." Oh, do you? Who said you have to travel great distances? Who said you have to go from one side of this country to the other to sponsor someone? You know, Jay and I started in this business in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We built our business in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We lived off the volume we generated in this town. We lived with the people we sponsored; we lived with the ones who chose not to be sponsored. But we developed a reputation in our own community of operating an honorable business, and we were able to sponsor people in this town regularly. And when, finally, others developed in leadership roles in our Nutralite business, we went fifty miles away to Lansing, Michigan, or we went to Holland, Michigan, or we went to Detroit, a hundred and fifty miles away. And I remember driving those nights; I remember coming out of Detroit after a midnight meeting and driving home because it saved the twenty bucks of a hotel room, and we did it every week, year in and year out. We didn't talk about suites; we just wondered where there was a cheap hotel to stay in.

You know, folks, it's time we got back to the fundamentals of this business. There is no way to put a lot of money in this Plan, other than a very simple one. I can show you how to double your income; and that is by doubling your volume. Somebody says, "Put an extra one percent in at all levels." And those who don't know should know that a one percent payout in the Plan at least is a four percent increase at the retail level. And somebody glibly says, "Put some more money in at every level." Do you think Direct Distributors are going to do flipflops over getting twenty-six percent instead of twenty-five? I don't think so. But I can show 'em how to get an extra fifty or sixty percent if they'll get out and sell some merchandise. I guess if I'd been told all these years you don't have to sell the product, all you have to do is wholesale it to people, then I guess maybe I wouldn't pay any attention to pricing, either. But that's an illegal business. And those of you that preach it and foster it and talk about it are operating illegally. I don't know how often I have to tell you that. I don't know how long I have to keep insisting that you talk upon people retailing the product and gaining customers and servicing them faithfully, only to have some of you just throw it up in the air and say, "That's not our way. We don't teach that method." I got to tell you, you're running the wrong method. You see, once you'd accept the fact that you must sell the product at retail to have an honest business, then you suddenly are very concerned about the pricing of the product. And once you understand that, you don't just glibly say, "Oh, take it out of the corporate coffers; just raise the price a little bit;" because those dollars do not exist there.

Somebody says, "You guys make a lot of money." That's right. And when you have a billion dollar a year business, you'll make a lot of money. But I'll tell you, We didn't make a lot of money by operating a hundred thousand dollar a year business and seeing how we could suck it dry. We built a billion dollar a year business. And when you work towards getting products retailed at that level, I'll tell you, we'll make money in this business. The problem is, some of you are trying to figure out how to make a lot of money without gettin' the volume that you need.

Somebody said, "I want to make more money." Let me tell you how. I don't have an extra one percent for you. I got an extra fifty-five to sixty-five percent for you. I'll tell you, folks, you can't beat that. But some of you have got a warped viewpoint of what makes a business operate; and once you get back to the idea that your business will grow in direct relationship to your ability to retail products, then you'll overcome the biggest mental handicap you have right now. And, maybe -- Let me tell you something. Maybe it's time you trusted the old, fifty-seven year old man instead of some people who been in this business a few years and have never worked it at the fundamental level, and they're telling you all about it. Well, let me tell you, maybe they don't know all about it. And I'll make some more comments about that as I go along:

The other question always comes up, you know, and it's -- it's a -- it's a good question: "Why didn't you bring it to the Board?" And maybe as I develop that theme for you a little bit you'll catch on to a few other things and maybe there'll be some applications to your own operations that you better start to think very seriously about.

Here's one of those letters: "We thought we voted on the Board to represent us." Well, you voted for people on the Board to do certain things and, indeed, to represent you and, indeed, to present your viewpoints and, indeed, to bring your opinions to us on all legal issues. But, whoever told you, and all those of you who say, "It should have come to the Board," whoever told you that doesn't know the law. Oh, they're experts. But they're -- You know, it's like a -- like this old, western cowboy used to say, you know -- He used to say, "All of us are ignorant, only on different subjects."

Now, you know, this is a very complex business world we live in, so let me put it to you real fast and straight. The Board is, indeed, an organization that represents your viewpoints. It indeed does visit with us on this business. But some of your so-called experts, who are telling you that it should have gone to the Board, don't know, is that for this company to discuss with the Board pricing on any product is a federal offense. It is known as price fixing. And we have a little experience with that and the FTC, by the way, that maybe your leader didn't tell you about or he forgot about it.

Maybe you've been reading in the papers lately about the president of a major airline, who casually said to his competitor, "Why don't you raise your prices twenty percent, and I'll raise mine?" And he has now been charged with a federal crime. Simple little statement. And, so, whoever told you that you must insist we bring it to the Board doesn't know what they're talking about.

But, you know, there's problems beyond that one. Let me just bring up another little side issue for you, and not too incidental. Some of you are screaming at us on the twenty percent. Some of you self-righteously say, "Oh, we have less than twenty percent in tapes and books and side issues in our other business." The Amway Corporation does in excess of a billion. If we only did ten percent -- not just in books and tapes; but let's talk about rallies and all the other things we tell our people to pay for; put it all together.

Let's assume we're taking out a hundred million dollars a year. We have placed a maximum on tapes and books at two hundred million that we would allow. I don't know what you might allow. But when you get into those kinds of numbers, if you want to hear a scandal, just read about it in the papers. You present wonderful numbers on the blackboard about all the money they can make. Maybe you ought to tell them about all you're going to take from them before they make any. Maybe that would be the rest of the story. But, you see, those are fantastic numbers. Our legal people tell us, "Boy, if it gets over ten percent!" Finally, they agreed, that maybe somewhere between ten and twenty is acceptable. Maybe that would be considered reasonable by governmental authorities. We assume it will be. We really hope it never gets to those numbers.

We didn't start out with BV on tapes to get to those numbers. We didn't start out with it to capture the market. We put it in, by the way, to be a competing force and to draw your attention to the kind of potential abuse that we thought was there, which we now know is there, with a kind of power and pressure I never believed; and I am not going to take all afternoon to read you the horror stories of the people who say, "I'm connected with such and such a system. I have $8,000 worth of their tapes in my basement. They will not take them back," and the others who were told to mortgage their houses, cash in their life insurance, told to go to the bank to borrow because this big weekend seminar was so important. Well, that's extracting money.

Let me talk to you about the legal side, beyond price fixing, that deals with pyramids, that deals with the illegal operation of a business that does not have an end consumer, where the product is not retailed. That would include all books and tapes. The sad news, folks, is that when those things go out that way and they become excessive, beyond my ten or twenty percent theoretical guideline, hopefully acceptable, to where it's a reasonable support system, but not beyond the reasonable element, then it becomes an out and out illegal pyramid. Why BV on tapes? That's why. It was time to bring some reasonableness to all of this. We also didn't take it to the Board, by the way, because we didn't really want to put a Board member on the spot. We have Board members who operate pretty big systems. It would have been a kind of an embarrassment to put him in the crossfire; so we just decided not to even discuss it at that level. Despite the fact that it would have been illegal to do so, we just decided it would have been the wrong place to talk about it, because we had to move to tend to some of the problems that I've just been discussing with you.

Well, let me pause a minute and look through my grab bag of mail a minute and see if I can't find if what -- a few other good examples for you and then plead with you to do some very simple things. It's time to get on track. That's all. It's time to do some very simple things, and they are ail outlined in the Ten Points that I gave you in last month's tape. And if you haven't listened to it, listen to it again; because there's no sense in my going all through it now. But, in truth, those Ten Points embody all the elements of what we want to talk about.

And, now, let me give you some of the other expressions that I've received and -- without trying to be negative on it; just trying to touch the high points here. Here's a little list. I'll kind of run through some of 'em. "You just want the tape business, you greedy monster." That's a great question, isn't it? I really don't want the tape business. As I told you before, if the tape business becomes a big business, I'm going to have to cut it down to size. I'm going to have to restrict it. I don't want it to be a big business. I want it to be exactly what it should be; and that is a reasonable, economical, for the industry better support system to the [selling] and sponsoring in the Amway Plan. That's all I want.

If the tape business becomes substantial and earns substantial dollars, I have a couple of choices, one of which is to lower the prices; because we want to keep it at a reasonable level. Why? Because the goal of Amway has always been one, and that is to give the average guy on the street, who's scared to death of his mother-in-law, a chance to make a new beginning. That's the principle. We didn't start this business to see what we could take from him. We started this business to see what we could help them achieve; and I'm afraid some of you got the business backwards. I'm not sure some of you are in the Amway business. You really don't care whether that guy achieves. You like to think you do. You give me long letters about how -- I got one here, and, you know, it says, "Before I got in using tapes" my business was so much. Now that I'm using tapes, it's doubled." Now I'm a Diamond, and I have done so well; and it's all because of the tapes." I -- I'm -- I'm glad it -- it worked for you, Diamond. I'm proud of you. Why don't I have a hundred thousand Diamonds if all it takes is the tapes? Why, it's so easy. Just give 'em the tapes, and they're Diamonds next week. Or does it take four years? Who you kidding? Who's been telling you that stuff? Do the tapes help? Sure, they help. Do meetings help? Sure, they help. Are they the answer between winning and losing? No, they are not.

Our achievement numbers haven't changed at all with this tremendous burden of systems. I and you cannot prove an any higher ratio of achievement than you had before. Are they better people for it? Possibly. Is it a good way of communication? Absolutely. Does it help get good ideas through the organization quickly and effectively? You bet your life it does. And, therefore, it is a helpful device.

Don't get me wrong. Don't say I said tapes were bad. I have never said tapes were bad, because we sold 'em long before you did. We think they're a super means of communication. Do I have a problem with big meetings and rallies? Lands no. I was putting on big meetings and rallies before some of you ever got out of your diapers. I made speeches on that stuff thirty years ago, before huge meetings. Some of you act like that's all new stuff. That's not new stuff. It's only a question of how you operate it and where you price it and whether the people feel it's worth it. And I've got to tell you, you got to review that carefully. And a little competition will help keep you in line, too.

Side B

We11, let's try another one, since I am so greedy. "Why didn't you do it sooner? Why do it now? It will be devisive." Now, those are good questions. We been lookin' at it for three or four years. Three years ago we talked about it. Some of you sent letters, said, "Why don't you put BV on tapes?" I can remember some of you guys who were in big tape programs begging us to put BV on tapes years ago. We considered it. We kept thinking the problem would go away. We thought competition between the people and the field would keep the pricing down. But it didn't work that way.

There was a subtle pressure put into this organization that I never felt would exist. I watch people being intimidated, threatened, coerced, scared. My mail has got in it letters from p
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#29 Consumer Suggestion

Look Here For Facts

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

You might consider looking for a credible source for facts about this company. There is a website at www.amquix.info that has a Dateline NBC report on the company along with results of research that didn't get on the show. This site has audio files from the "Directly Speaking tapes" by Rich DeVos, co-founder of Amway. There is also audio from Ken McDonald, Managing Director of Quixtar, among others.

There is also information on Amway's cases at the FTC in 1979 and 1986. It also talks about the bill HR1220 in Congress in 2003 which Quixtar supported that would legalize pyramid schemes. There is also information on other lawsuits against Amway and Quixtar as well. If you Google "truth about Quixtar" you will find a lot in interesting information.

It is poor judgment to do business with a company that has a questionable reputation, and permit people who represent them to participate in deceptive business practices.

Here is text from the Directly Speaking tapes:
Directly Speaking, January 1983,
Spoken by Rich DeVos
Amway Cassette Series VA-2160
Well, this is Rich DeVos in Ada, Michigan, coming forth once again to chat a little bit with you, and to share a few ideas, and a little information and some of the things that are going on. The primary purpose to this tape is to communicate to you some of the things that went on at the Diamond Club in Hawaii, and I guess partly to make sure we have the least amount of rumors and the most amount of facts running around as to where we're coming at you from.

I guess another reason to talk to you right now has to do with what we've seen on "60 Minutes" -- what we're seeing on other television programs around the country, and some of the challenges that seem to be coming our way at this time.

At the Diamond Club, I -- referred to them as "warts." Randy Preston said, "Maybe you ought to call them 'blemishes,'" but I do not think that's strong enough. Now let's first of all understand that I am not talking to new Distributors -- this is not a sponsoring meeting -- I am talking to you as Direct Distributors, as the heads of your organizations, as the ones that this company deals with and looks to to carry on the leadership role in this organization. Now I recognize there are other awards, and every award level, by the way, claims that they are the true leadership, but as I told you when I was on the road with you, this Plan gears around the simple fact that every Direct Distributor is in charge of their business, they are the owners of it, they run it and they are the level to which we look to meet the day-to-day responsibilities in the field organization.

So I'm talking to you as the leaders of the organization. I hope you have all due respect for all the people below you and all the people above you, and that's just super. I must emphasize to you, however, that you're the leadership, on a day-to-day in dealing with your organization. Therefore, it's important you know some of these things, and so, maybe we can give 'em to you straight and maybe share some of our concerns with you.

Every since "60 Minutes" appeared, we have been inundated by mail. Both pro and con. I think in all honesty I must tell you that the outside world, the people who are in business, the people who are in government, the people who watch "60 Minutes" quite regularly and critically and have a knowledge of media and so forth -- generally feel we came out very, very well.

Paul Harvey called me the other day and said, "You guys did a great job, I'm proud of ya." And he wanted to call just to congratulate us. The head of a major university's business school, I talked with him yesterday, and (unintelligible) "Boy, you guys did as good as anybody's ever done. I was proud of ya. In fact, I had a bunch of people in just to watch ya, because I knew you'd do well." Well, that's fine, but the inside report from Distributors goes all the way from frustration to outright anger. People who say they distorted us, they didn't show anything good about us, they could do was find a few failures and show the extremes and why did ya pick those people, and why didn't ya pick somebody else -- and all those rumors you got in your mind, and some of those frustrations also.

Well, let me give you the background on "60 Minutes," it might help you a bit. We were first approached a long time ago. We tried to put it off, we told them we didn't think we were a good subject for the show, but they said they were going to do a show, with or without us. And we finally took it upon ourselves to say that if they're going to do it anyway, then we're not going to dodge it -- even if it's a disaster, we're at least going to stand for what we believe and if they don't put our thoughts on the tape, well that's up to them. But we're not going to run from it.

We had no control over the people they used. They took tape from all over the country. They taped people on the West Coast, they taped people on the East Coast and they chose to run the portion they ran. Now, you may not have liked, or I may not have liked it -- it's unimportant. That was their choice. The fact of the matter, however, is that watch you saw is what was being presented at an Amway meeting. And I'm not going to knock it and say it was so bad -- it's just that when you take a little piece out of a big meeting, it can look not as good as you'd like to have it. You know, if you and I sit in a meeting for three or four hours and we hear somebody say a few things like that, we'd applaud. We'd say "Yeah, right on, and soar with the eagles -- why not?" But when ya suddenly see that little section, one minute long, taken out of context and flashed on a screen, it doesn't look quite the same. Does it? When a person stands up and says "I'm going to have a ring for every finger..." You know, I say sometimes at a Direct Distributor meeting where we're on a talk about getting ahead in life and having some of the finer things in life, that sounds pretty good. But when it's on a national television screen, as though it represented all of us, and that all we think about is greed, or money, or rings, or cars, or buses, or whatever, then it doesn't look very good.

Now, let's face it -- you and I know that's not the whole story -- they know it's not the whole story -- and those that don't like us come to their own conclusion. But you see, when you grab thirty seconds or a minute out of a whole meeting, you get a distorted view. That wasn't the whole meeting - there was lot more to the meeting, and probably much more balanced in the meeting, but that isn't what they chose to show, and so it comes off that way.

Now let's, therefore just -- not get excited about it, figure we came out of it 50-50, 60-40. We wish it had been a 15 minute ad but it wasn't. It wasn't all bad, it wasn't all good, but it did show a presentation of how we sometimes look.

Now, we also have got -- some of you know -- some problems in other states with legal authorities, we -- who -- also say we're not saying it right, we're not presenting the Plan correctly, we're overclaiming and understating what'cha have to do.

We have guys in the -- Legal field -- uh, Attorneys General -- who don't like our curiosity approach, and -- and, so we've tried to -- lay before the Diamonds and I'm trying to lay before you and -- and -- really asking for your help. We've got to find a way to make a better image.

You know, one of the reasons we use the curiosity approach is because people have preconceived ideas of what Amway is. You and I know what it really is, but they have a distorted or warped view; and therefore, if they thought they were coming to an Amway function, they would probably say "No" because of their preconceived ideas. Therefore, would we do is use the curiosity approach, but when it's used indirectly, all we do is give a further bad image for the organization. And people begin to say, "What's the matter, are you ashamed of what you're in? Do you have to be tricky, deceitful, lie to get me to come to a meeting? Tell me it's a fund-raiser, tell me it's a -- it's a how to save money on taxes -- it's a social event" -- whatsa matter with you people, what happened to your ethics? And I have to tell you, that what we're running in to. And that's why we're asking for your total help to stamp out the curiosity approach. If you can't use it correct, then don't use it at all. Then invite them to an Amway meeting, and when they tell you they know all about that, then ask them some questions, such as, "If you know all about it, how does the Diamond Bonus work. How does the Emerald bonus work? Do you know how how profit-sharing works." When they say, "No, I don't know that," then you jump right on them and say "You don't know about Amway, you better come to the meeting.

(Unintelligible) . . . that's how you overcome that, but I'd rather have you have to go through that little verbal battle rather to deceive a person and tell them it's not an Amway meeting and then when they get there an hour after they sat down they discover it is an Amway meeting. You know, that's deception, that infuriates people, and that gives this company, and you, a bad image. And so we need your help on some of that stuff, we just got to clean it up.

I get too many letters in here from people who are still being told, "You don't have to sell products, we're in a marketing group, we're just in a marketing outfit. No selling is necessary." Now you know, that's a lie. (Unintelligible) . . . you can't stay in this business and be a liar and expect us to have a decent image, and I need your help.

Those aren't big things, those are just little things, but you know, we're a big company and we no longer can afford to do little things wrong, because everybody's watching what we do, and therefore we got to do even the little things right -- now, I know you're growing up in business and you're -- you're just trying to get business and you don't know all of the legal ramifications, you don't know all the complications, you just do things because you think you're -- you're doing them right, but that's why we insist that you must do them our way, not because you're dumb or inept or a jerk, we ask you to do 'em our way because this is a complicated business and this is a complicated world, and there are certain ways that are right and other ways that are wrong. And I need your help -- when I say, "Do it our way," that not to take your creativity away, it's just that with a million of us out there and each got their own little twist or turn or idea, and they think it's cute, it may be cutely illegal, possibly improper and could be creating a bad image that we were talking about. Now we addressed all that stuff at Diamond Club and I -- I told all the Diamonds I need their help, I'm telling you I need you're help on cleaning up some of these situations.

Now, I got -- as we said -- I got stacks of letters that came in -- I -- I can't tell you how many of people have written. Hundreds and thousands -- and here's -- here's -- just one letter from one dear lady from the East -- and I won't give her name, I didn't do it for that reason, she's talking about "60 Minutes:

"Please don't misunderstand, but a number of people not even in the business stated to me that you did not come out strong enough against the hype, hoopla, exaggerated claims and obvious mixing of born-again, fundamentalist revivalism with business that was shown."

Then she goes on to say:

"I have no idea, of course, why they edited it that way, but, they did."

Now, I can . . . (unintelligible) . . . I can . . . her letter is many pages long, and she told how -- she finally switched groups because she was so tired of that sort of treatment. Still in the business, but still got a bad taste in her mouth.

You know, I got another one over here. And this is the stuff I am receiving, and it comes in the backwash of "60 Minutes." Somebody said:

"I consider myself to be the victim of aggressive Directs and their upline. I got caught in an ambitious and aggressive group."

If this was an exception letter, you guys and gals, I wouldn't beat it at ya. I got too many of 'em, and therefore I'm going to share it with you, although I know that it's a little negative, but I have to get to you, I have to get your attention that we have to do some things to change our image, and we need to the help of all of you.

(Unintelligible) . . . I consider myself to be an -- ambitious, aggressive group. Directs, that was (sic) determined to reach their set goal at the expense of the Distributors, come hell or high water. Their philosophy, "Mortgage your home, cash in your insurance, get a bank loan and borrow from whosoever will loan you.
We were told in our, and I'll leave the name out because it would identify the organization, in our so and so meeting, certain things discussed were to remain within the walls wherein discussed or suggested.

Then the goes on to tell how he was harassed at this job.

Whoever was teaching that, and it was not some little new Direct, was teaching an illegal, immoral, improper system. I can't tolerate it.

You know, we've been talkin' to you for years that you don't buy a position in Amway, you earn it, and, here, blatantly, being taught inside a meeting, and then being told don't tell anybody, are methods that go contrary to everything we've heard.

We've always said you earn your position in Amway and you don't buy it. And here I see it being done, and I want to tell you, we're -- monitoring new Directs, we're monitoring anybody who gets a higher award, we have a whole department today that is monitoring, just because we have some people who got abusive with it.

Now, I just got to lay these things on you, I -- I need your attention, and I -- some of you guys who are doing it is the one (sic) I am talking to. I'm not talking to the rest of you. But some of you continue doing things that we are not going to tolerate, and we are in the process of establishing a whole new policing department in this company, because we have been unable to voluntarily get you to decide to do the things that are right and will improve the image that we have.

Here's another person, and that's the last one I'm gonna read to ya, but she -- she chew me out. And, so -- uh, you know, turn-about's fair play, they say, and I don't doubt that. She said, "I'm painfully aware that I'm very insignificant cog in the big company wheel." But for what it is worth my opinion is that our president, Rich DeVos, for whom I have the greatest respect, is now obligated to bite the bullet and act on his own voiced beliefs. I recall two of the very impressive statements which punctuates (sic) my point.

The first is a quote from a 1965 recording of the "Four Winds," where he told the Junior Achievers, "Before you go out to clean up the world, you had better learn how to clean up your own room." Boy, how's that for having' it thrown back at you?

And how right it is, and how right-on it is, that a person would do that.

She goes on to say -- I had another quote, which I put on a tape right after the Manifesto came out: "If we are allowed to pick and choose the rules by which we will abide, and ignore the others, then we have chaos."

Wow, that's a direct quote, from another person. As I told you, they come in by the stacks. I take 'em home by the pile at night, and just sit there are read through them, wishing I could answer all of them, but many of them carry this message, that we've got some things to do.

Well, that's partly what we addressed when we were in Hawaii. By the way, I do have one more here, I see it on the bottom of my list, and . . . and he's gettin' on my case, he says, "You gotta do something to change this image of this company." Well, I wish I could tell you that we're gonna buy Bob Hope, and he's gonna be on television, he's going to be sponsored by Amway, and that that's gonna change it. Well, it's not going to change it. It will help, 'cause he's willing to come on the line for Amway and talk about Amway -- you'll love the ads, by the way, they're great, and it will get to a lot of people.

There's only one thing we can do the change the image, you've got to do some things about the way we are conducting ourselves in this business to correct them. Therefore, what I got down to at the Diamond Club, by the way, and this sort of fell out afterwards, you know -- one of the things that we announced at the Diamond Club -- and it -- Amway has been working for three years on the matter of how to cope with the tape business. Should the company get in it, should it stay out of it, how far should it get in it, should it have -- uh, uh -- dollar amounts paid to certain levels, pin levels -- should it -- should it -- have BV -- shouldn't it have -- we have just put it off all these years.

But you know, we finally concluded, and that's what I announced at Diamond Club, that we are going to put BV on tapes. By the ways, our tapes in the United States will sell for $2.50 and in Canada they'll be $2.95, we will pay full BV -- now understand, no PV -- so you'll get the Business volume. The reason for that is a very simple one, so that you get the Point Value out of this business by doing your regular Amway business. However, because of the cost of doing some of the motivational materials and handling tapes, you can get business volume on it.

In other words, you can't make Direct by selling tapes. You make Direct by selling the regular line Amway products, but you will get Business Volume on the other. Now, from our standpoint, that's the kind of a simple things, you know, that's absolutely consistent with the Plan, it awards everybody fairly in relationship to what they do in it, it protects the upline, it protects the downline, and it was kind of a simple thing.

Uh -- primary reason was because we got a lot of people in this business who don't have a tape program and they're saying, "Why don't you put something out; that's legal and proper," and we finally said fine. We're going to put out legally clear tapes that give it straight, and that you can rely on, we're going to put them out at a price we think it right, we'll put a little BV on 'em so that you recover some of the costs, and -- we have a little hooker in there, by the way -- the BV on tapes can never exceed twenty percent of your total Business Volume. Now, I haven't figured out what to do if you go to twenty-one percent, but we will, we may just not pay you on it -- because when your tape volume becomes so great in relationship to your regular business, then you are no longer in the Amway business -- you're in the tape business.

Now, the tape business, if it is not used as a support for the Amway business, will oftentimes be an illegal business -- in fact, it could be called a pyramid -- because, d -- does not get sold to the consumer. Which means that all the tape business does is take money out of the organization, and because the final person can't retail it, it never brings money into the organization. Now, I'm not arguing about the value of it -- we accept the fact that motivation is vital to this business. Good, honest motivation is important to the business. But, it must be motivation that builds the business -- not become a business in itself.

And some of you have made it a business unto itself. And you're making a lot of money on it, and all I'm saying to you, well, I can't tell you whether you can or you can't, I can't tell you whether it's legal or illegal, I'm not checking on your business right now. But we have to provide an alternative to the Direct Distributor in this business in a fair and legal and honest manner as a support device for the main business. And so we decided to put BV on tapes.

We really didn't think it was a big deal. I was a little surprised, and I am surprised today to the reaction of some people to our doing this. (Unintelligible) . . . "You're cutting into my tape business, you can't do that." Listen, we've been putting out motivational materials in this company for 23 years. We've been putting out tapes longer than anybody in the business. The mere fact that we decide to put BV on it is a corporate decision, we make corporate decisions everyday to make a product a sales aid, or to put it in BV. We do those things everyday. So our doing this was not a big deal from the corporate standpoint, and so we're a little surprised. We never really considered it being confrontational, we considered it as a way to take care of all the good, Direct Distributors in this business and letting him share in some of the dollars in it, for motivation, as long as it didn't get out of control and become their main business, and that's why the controls are placed in it.

I really find it hard for anybody to argue with Amway putting some profit in tape -- uh -- for the Direct Distributors -- uh -- even though I've gotten some of that reaction, but that's a whole subject, and -- I just, we just dropped the tape thing there, and -- and we'll move on to the -- the bigger picture, you know, the bigger thing -- by the way, that's effective March 1, and uh, you'll be getting price lists and notifications on it, and those of you that don't have a good tape program or any tape program it's -- we think we're going to begin to offer you a good program you can offer to your organization in balance to motivate your people, uh -- I'm not trying to push them, I'm not trying to jam 'em at ya -- I'm just saying that if you feel there is a need for more tapes in your group for motivational reasons, we're going to have some available. Uh, and so -- uh -- we don't call it a program or a system, we just are adding BV to our tapes and going to expand our tape library to better serve those of you that have a need for such a thing.




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Side B

Another upshot of everything else, therefore, at the Diamond Club, and all the discussion, led me to challenge the Diamonds, and I -- I want to challenge you with 'em today. I may have sounded a little angry to you. I'm not really angry. I'm just -- I'm concerned. I -- I am vitally concerned about the image that this Company is portraying. And I think we've got some bad actors in this business, and you know we have. And I am imploring all of you to do two things. Number one, clean up your act. And number two, if you know people who are continuing to do things improperly after all of this, then I want you to write us a note and just tell us who's doing it. Don't -- I don't need 419's right now. I just want to know so we can track the improper ones: And if we find somebody is cross-grouping, and if somebody's coming to you and asking you to buy their system or their tape program, then you let us know, 'cause that's cross-grouping. And just put it in a letter.

Say, "so-and-so came in to see me today to try to get me to sell their stuff." And, you see, then we can put a quick track on anybody who is violating one of the basic principles of this organization. And we'll begin to spot them; and we'll get to them. And then we can take our action from there. But we need your help on getting us some of that information. But, more than that, we need your help in making sure the way you're doing it is proper in your own group.

These are the ten things I put before the Diamonds, and let me just put 'em before you. I asked the Diamonds, by the way, that if they agreed with these Ten Points to write me a letter or to stick it on the note pad that was in front of them in the meeting room. All they had to say to me was, "Rich, I agree with you. We support those Ten Points, and we will teach them to our people. And, you know, I received such letters from almost everybody who was there. Not everybody, but I did receive them from most of the Diamonds. So I have them in my file, and I know who has pledged their support to uphold these things. And while we're not in a meeting and I can't ask you exactly the same thing in the same way, to hand it to me when the meeting's over with, and scribble it on a piece of paper, if you feel so inclined, you might want to write a note and say, "Rich, I support your Ten Points, and I'm gonna uphold them in our group, and I'm gonna teach them to our people and see if we can't clean up our business so we can present a better image to the world." So, I'm not -- I'm not necessarily going to take a role call on it, but if you feel that way, sometimes, you know, it helps your own commitment, and it might make you feel a little better to let us know where you stand. Just say, "I am with you." Just stick it on a postcard. I don't care. Just say, "Rich, I stand with you on the Ten Points," and we can go from there.

Now, here they are. They're not very complicated, but they do get down to some of the nitty-gritty, and I'll explain them to you as I go.

Number One: I will unplug from any group, up or down, which is not in my line of sponsorship.
You know, a lot of you, got your fingers dirty. You got your hands a little bit into somebody else's group, or you're dealing into somebody else's group that's not in your line of sponsorship, or you're getting stuff from somebody. I'm just asking you to unplug it. Tend to your own business; stay in your own line; deal only with the people you sponsor. The other people are not in your group; they are not your business; and if you are a believer in this Plan, then you'll believe in the principle. If it's okay for you to intrude somebody else's group, then it's okay for them to intrude yours. If it's okay for you to intrude somebody else's group; then it's okay for somebody above you to go around you and intrude your distributors below you. You and I know you can't tolerate that. We can't stand it, and you've got to agree to stand on it. If you do, send me a note. I know, there are some old, historical associations. Some of you had 'em goin' back ten years. I'm not going to come running over and try and police it; but I'm saying you should start to think in terms of unplugging and gettin' your act cleaned up.
Number Two: I will only use Amway-produced literature in the presentation of the Plan and will use only the figures Amway gives.
We have a major lawsuit going right now with an attorney general in one of the states based on people making what they say are excess claims and telling people they hardly have to work at all, telling them you can make $50,000.00 a year and you only have to work twelve hours a week. Now, you and I both know, you know; that -- that just can't be put up with. And, therefore, I have a very simple statement to you: Don't create numbers of your own. You use the numbers and the literature we give you, and nobody else's. You don't have any tapes in your group to teach you how to present the Plan other than the one Amway has. That's what I mean by following Rule Two.
Number Three: I will not make my willingness to help a distributor conditioned on their purchasing my Tape of the Week or anything else I sell, which is beyond the basic Amway-supplied material.
I tell you why that's in there. I got too many letters from people who have told me that they were told that if they didn't support their upline and buy his or her tapes, then they would not give them any help. I can't put up with that. It is a sponsor's responsibility to train, motivate and supply their people. That's for the privilege of being the sponsor; not whether they buy some extra things you've decided to sell. If you have people in your group that you don't want, then let us know and we'll reassign them to somebody else; because if you're unwilling to take care of them because you are willing to sponsor them, then let me know. There are no conditions on servicing distributors. All of your distributors are serviced the best you know how, whether they buy a tape of the Week from you or not.
Number Four: If I offer tapes, books and rallies, they will always be presented on a voluntary basis. No strings, no pressure, and no force.
And by 'force' I mean such as saying to somebody in your group that "You must take ten tickets. You must take a hundred tickets. Here's your hundred tickets. Pay me for 'em. You better get rid of 'em. We're going to fill this hall. Or saying, "You must subscribe to Tape of the Week, or I won't work with you." That's force. You know, you offer these things, but you do that voluntarily. If you do it that way, fine. It doesn't diminish your willingness to work with them. Pure, voluntary use of support materials. By the way, you ought to be very careful, because the moment you do anything more than what I am saying to you to do, which is voluntarily offer them, you are going to run the risk of having an employer/employee relationship. That's the last thing you need.
Number Five: If I teach the curiosity approach, it will be in accordance with Rule Six, as passed out at the end of the meeting.
Well, I can't pass it out to you today, but Rule Six really says if you're going to use curiosity, you must tell them they are coming to a business-type opportunity meeting. You may not tell 'em it's a social event or a coffee or a church event or a fund-raising event or a how-to-save-money-on-taxes event. All that is deception. You must tell 'em it's a business opportunity meeting. If they ask you if it's Amway, you say 'yes.' That's what the Rule says. If I were doing it, I would say to people ahead of time, and I wanted to use curiosity, "I'm not going to tell you what it is, but I want you to come." If they said to me, "If that's the way it is, I'm not going to come," I'd say, "Well, fine, then, say home: You spent all your life telling me that you wanted to get ahead, you weren't happy with your conditions in life, you don't like your job; and now I ask you if you'll give me two hours to come and hear about something and you tell me you're not going to come. (inaudible) stay home." See? Don't beg people. Finally, you get down to challenging them to come or not come.
Number Six: I will not produce any literature or tapes about the Plan or the products.
I know you present the Plan magnificently, but what you don't always know are the fine points that we have to cover in all fifty states, plus satisfying the government, to make sure we say it exactly right. And that's why we cannot permit you to produce any such materials.
Number Seven: I will not hide behind group names.
We are proud of our group and like our own identity, but we will not use it as a subterfuge to say we are not in Amway. This really is a hot one, folks. People are saying, "Oh, we're in X-Y-Z organization. We're not in Amway." If you are signed on an Amway application form and if you have anyone you sponsor who's linked to you, then you are in Amway. I don't care what other name you want to run under: By implication, you are saying you're not in Amway: If you are asked, then you must say, "I am in Amway." And if you're not willing to say that, then don't send me any letters.
Number Eight: We will work together to build our own businesses while creating an organization that truly cares about every distributor in it. We will talk about the big picture -- no problem -- while making sure we do not diminish those who choose to do less or make them feel like losers.
I hear that very often. "There's winners and losers. Are you a winner? Are you a loser?" Almost insulting people who don't sign up. You even got bad terminology. "We're the winners. Over here are the losers in life." They're not losers. They may have a richer, fuller life than those of you that got fancy cars and new clothes or big rings have got. You know, they -- Life is not geared by materialism. You do not decide who's a winner or a loser. There's too -- Life is too complicated for that. We must make sure we always speak of everybody being a winner, even though they may have different goals. My plea here is that when you have a program, you make sure you have people on there who are making $100.00 and thrilled with it, as well as those who make more. Present it as a plan so that everybody can realize their goal, whatever it is.
Number Nine: While recognizing the importance of financial goals, we will attempt to use tact, t-a-c-t, and dignity so as not to create an image of just money, money, money. Together we will create an organization, which loves and cares for each distributor, regardless of level, and an organization which will be of service in our communities.
I don't mind you're making money. I don't mind your enjoying the things that money will buy. But I do have a problem of presenting an image of an organization that has nothing in it but greed, that has no concern for the poor or the hungry or for what's going an in their community. It is time, folks, we changed our image and showed an image of a company and of individuals who care about other people, no matter where they are economically. And that while you may want to quietly talk about your new cars or your fancy rings, you also talk to people about the other values that the Amway business brings, such as the wonderful idea of being associated with people who are positive, the great and good things that happen by -- by making an extra $100.00 a month, the fun of -- of being in an organization that is in a positive frame of mind. All the other, little things we don't talk about: the joy of bringing up our children in an atmosphere of positive thinking; you know, have our kids hang around people -- the joy of having our kids see something else other than the back yards of their neighbors' houses and never get more than fifty miles out of town, to be able to open your children's minds to music and to the arts. All of that is what we got to talk about, not just whether we're making some more money.
And Number Ten: I agree with the principle and will observe the rules relating to PV/BV transfers. We will do all we can to make sure no PV/BV is transferred to anyone who did not honestly buy it and who was complying with the seventy percent rule.
In other Words, I need a pledge that you will not inventory load, that you will not push a bunch of stuff on somebody to win a pin or to earn a trip; but that they will, indeed, have not only bought the Amway products, but have, in turn, sold them so that they got retail and the money came back in. In direct contrast to what I read to you in a letter earlier, "go out and borrow the money to make it." I could tell you horror stories about every company I've ever lived with and fought against, who did inventory loading, asking people to borrow money to make a pin level. We have watched at least a hundred such companies come, and we have watched all of them go; and they are all broke and long gone. We cannot tolerate this business. We must stick to the principle that the people we hang pins on did so because they built a strong, Amway-centered business, built on what they did conforming with the rules of rewarding people on the basis of performance, not on the basis of their ability to beg, borrow or steal money.
Well, that's quite a Directly Speaking tape. Heavy? Well, maybe. But, you know, folks, this is a serious time. What you saw on "60 Minutes" was probably not all to your liking; it was not to mine. But the beautiful part of it is that Mike Wallace, when he was here, said, "You know, this is the most phenomenal thing." He was intrigued with the lives we were touching and the things we were doing. He was intrigued with the motivation, the lifting up, the spirit of the people. He was convinced; when he went to shoot those pictures at that meeting in North Carolina, that he would find nothing but Bible-belt Baptists, all white, only to find blacks and Jews from New York City, all mixed in. He said, "We couldn't believe it. This was a cross-section of America, people trying to get ahead, and we were impressed." Well, they may not have shown that in their programming, but, you see, we know that they could have done a lot worse for us. And, so, we're grateful to them for showing us our warts and for helping us to remind ourselves that we got to "clean up our own room," as the one lady wrote and placed it so well. That if we are really going to go out and impact this world, we got to do it with clean hands. And right now, some of you have got to ask yourself these ten questions. Some of you have got to ask yourself whether you're really in the Amway business or whether you're in the tape business. You got to ask yourself whether you're really in the rally business or in the Amway business. You must ask yourself if everything you're doing is to support your Amway business or is it really for a secondary motive. We are, of course, a little prejudiced. But, you see, it is the Amway Plan that you run under, and we really cannot tolerate people running under the Amway Plan and then doing such things that destroy the image of all other Amway distributors.

And, so, we're off and running. We're on to the subject, and I hate to confront you with it. But I think for most of you, you'll recognize that if we aren't careful with our image, some day it'll be so bad, you won't be able to sponsor anybody. And then there won't be any sense in talking about it anymore. But right now, this night, at the meetings you have today, with the people with whom you talk today, is the time to make sure you present the Plan as a plan that offers opportunity geared on hard work and that you approach people honestly and straight-forward and don't try to deceive them, and then you don't try to push stuff on your nice distributors because you make money on it when it may or may not be totally necessary for them.

I know some of the tapes are magnificent. I know they're important, and I know rallies are important, and I know books are important. I know all that's important -- all important within balance. Out of balance, it can destroy us.

And so, we're on the road. Thanking you again for a great year and thanking you ahead of time for your cooperation because it is my belief that each one of you, when you realize what's really going on in this business, will say, "Rich, you're right. I'm with you. We do got to clean up our act. And it isn't just in the other guy's group. I got some stuff to do with my own group." And if all of us will take that to heart right now, we will begin to build the new Amway, based on sponsoring people in a very simple, straight-forward manner, to join the fastest-growing, most magnificent outfit in the world that offers people at the bottom of the rung a chance to make a beginning. And we will focus our attention on selling products.

Expo is just hitting the road. It will be in Atlanta next week for its opening thing.

Dick, my son Dick, and Roger just came back from Cleveland where they built it; and they said it is absolutely magnificent; it is going to stun them when they see this new traveling show. We have two new semi's that are traveling across the country, carrying this from city to city. Bring every customer you get. In fact, go get ten of your friends who think you're nuts for being in Amway. Invite 'em over for dinner and say, "We're going to go to the Amway Expo." Or tell 'em you're going to take 'em out to show 'em the Amway Expo and

[page of transcript missing]

So we'll be in touch with you. We'll see you all, and thanks for being great people.

This is Rich in Ada with great gratitude for all of you. Bye-bye.




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CERTIFICATE



STATE OF OHIO )
) SS:
COUNTY OF HAMILTON )


I, KATHLEEN M. McCLELLAN, a Court Reporter and Notary
Public for the State of Ohio, commissioned and qualified, do
hereby certify that the foregoing twenty-nine (29) pages
constitutes a true, correct and complete transcript of Directlv
Speaking, Rich De Vos, Amway Cassette Series VAL-2l50, which was
transcribed by me and/or under my direction.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and
notarial seal at Cincinnati, Ohio, this 29th day of March, 1985.

Directly Speaking, Date Unknown
(probably Feb. or March 1983),
Spoken by Rich DeVos
Amway Cassette Series VA-2160
sounds/directly_speaking_II.zip Directly Speaking II - side A in .mp3 (3.6Megs) Directly Speaking II - side B in .mp3 (2.6Megs)

Side A

Well, here we are again in Ada, Michigan, and this is Rich. You might not know it, but today is my birthday. It's the 4th day of March, and I'm 57; so you won't have to spend a lot of time discussing it. And since it's the second Directly Speaking tape dealing with some of the real challenges that this organization faces right now, I thought maybe we ought to kind of get back to some fundamentals a little bit and then see if we really can't answer a lot of the questions that have come to me.

My mailbag, since the last Directly Speaking tape, has been very heavy. Many, many of you have written letters, saying, "It's about time," "Thank goodness," "Hallelujah," and a few other joyful expressions. My desk became piled high with people saying, "I support you in your Ten Points." And if you haven't written such a letter and you feel that way, I'd still urge you to write it. We are down to a point of trying to find out who really supports this Amway program; and, if after listening to the last Directly Speaking tape you felt like you wanted to stand and yell and say, "We stand with you," and never bothered to write, it's important that you do.

Let me just see if I can't reiterate a few of the important things that I think are facing us right now, some principles that are involved. And it is, of course, the reason that I am writing, or, why I'm talking to you, as -- as Direct Distributors.

Someplace along the line, we lost sight of the fact that the Direct Distributor is the operating head of their organization. All due respect to the upline. I don't care who they are; I don't care what pin level they are. Many of you have heard me talk over and over again about the fact that if your sponsor did nothing more than tell you about Amway, they opened a door of opportunity for you; but only you can walk through it. And those of you that I'm talking to today are Direct Distributors; you took the challenge; you walked through that door, and you became a Direct Distributor in the world of Amway. In our book, that makes you the head, the star the outstanding performer, who, unlike many others who looked at it and listened and either turned it down or did nothing with it, you did, and you are to be commended.

I'm disturbed, because I find too many people are putting Directs down and saying, Oh, what are you? "You don't know enough," a Diamond's where it's at. And you know, it's true; we have a lot of awards at Diamond. But we decided a long time ago in this company that Direct Distributor is where it's at. After all, a Diamond is only a person who has six Direct Distributors, and a double Diamond is one who has twelve; but this whole Plan revolves around the leadership of the Direct Distributor. And that's, of course, why we're talking to you.

I'd like to get through some of the kind of negative stuff that's come on my desk, also. As I told you, I've a lot of positive responses. I also have a lot of horror stories, stories that must have been swept under the rug or hid behind the curtains, that should have been brought to our attention a long time ago -- and I know, in some of the cases, they were brought to our attention, and we did nothing about it; and I apologize to you for that. Maybe we overlook some things, maybe we are blind and maybe we swept some things under the rug, too, and thought it would just sort of go away. Only some of these things did not go away; they just got worse.

And, so let me see, now, if I can just take some of the questions that you've sent to me, some of them in anger, very mad at us for doing a simple thing, like putting BV on tapes. None of us here ever realized that we would cause to come out in the open all that has now come forward; but I must assure you that now that it is out in the open, we have no alternative but to move forcefully and directly on all the things that are now before us here. We cannot turn our back. We cannot sweep it under the rug. We must deal with it; and deal with it, we will. And we are developing the resources inside this company to attack it on a one-by-one basis.

One of the complaints that we received was, "Why do you always act as though we are all guilty when it's only some who are guilty? Why don't you praise the rest of us?" And, you know, I think that's a marvelous idea; and I do try to praise you. I -- I would praise you now for being who you are and where you are. But, you see, it's sort of like trying to find out where the problem is, only you don't know where the problem is; and, so, you sort of have to swing wide. And, in the process, yes, indeed, you do sometimes harm those you really should be loving. But I also found out that in the past, when we have done work to resolve specific problems and we didn't tell everybody about it, we got accused of not doing anything.

So, on the one hand, if I talk openly to all of you about some of the challenges, I am accused of painting everybody with a broad brush and making them feel quilty. On the other hand, if I don't talk to you openly about all of these problems, great numbers of you think we are doing nothing. And, therefore, as adults, as leaders of the business, which is what you are, as the operating heads, as the responsible party, we must share with you the problems of the business, as well as the challenges and the joys of the business. And, I guess, I must trust that you are big enough to cope with both of those; so that on the one hand, you don't get all bent out of shape because there are problems in the business and lose your excitement for it, and on the other hand, that you don't get carried away with your own power and greatness if we don't challenge you with some of these issues. So, I don't want you to get to where it goes to your head; and, by the same token, I -- I don't want to put you down; but I feel all of you must know what is happening, so that you can react intelligently to it. If you don't know what the problem is, sometimes you don't even know when you're being done in; and you should know some of those things that are happening... And so, we'll kind of lay it on you.

Let me take some of the kind of nasty ones first. They kind of come in groups, by the way. You can always tell when some person in the business -- perhaps in a leadership position -- has called together his Directs and given them the word, because a whole bunch of letters or telegrams come in; and they all say exactly the same thing. And, so, my first reaction to those kinds -- and I have a little stack of those in front of me is that obviously these people never thought the problem through. They are mouthing what somebody else has told them to say, and they run along the line like this: "What happened to your trust?" I don't know if I can trust you anymore," "You put BV on tapes," "You cause me great concern." Maybe -- let me read you one. "Disturbed by Directly Speaking tape. Lacks mutual trust and respect. Need two-way communication. Consider bonus increase at level price to cover inflated building cost at distance." Interesting. I don't have one of those; I have several of them. They go in a slightly different vain; but they're all saying, "You broke your trust when you put BV on tapes."

Well, let's just talk about trust a little bit. How can we be accused of breaking trust when all we did was do what they are asking us to do in the next sentence, put some more money in the Plan? You know, the first sentence says, "You've broken your trust;" the second sentence, "Put more money in the Plan." You know, you shouldn't have sent the telegram. We just did; we put more money in the Plan for the Direct Distributor and everybody who earns BV. Now, how can that break trust? I can see where, if we had decided to eliminate a bonus, to remove items from BV and ask you to handle them without anything, that you could accuse us of such a thing. I don't see how I can possibly be accused of breaking trust when we have, indeed, enriched the Plan and exactly in the form in which the Plan has always operated, which is a principle I think those who have written such telegrams have forgotten.

This Plan was geared around the sharing of the opportunity with everybody in the line of sponsorship. I think what some are saying to me is that we had a nice system that shared it with only certain, selected people in the Plan; we split the money amongst the Diamonds and the Emeralds; we didn't give it to anybody else. Trust? Whose trust? Whose trust was betrayed? All those good sponsors who brought you all those other people who were walked over, stepped on and bypassed? Do they deserve your trust? And then to question whether we should be trusted, who have protected the Plan, is really an insult to me.

I am further fascinated, by the way, with this whole idea of "put more money in the Plan, but don't raise the prices." I've heard that, you know, for a long time. I guess, what that says to me, from a person who hasn't thought it through, "Give us more. Take it out of the company's coffers; but don't charge more to the customer." Sounds good, doesn't it? Sounds like the same kind of a problem that got the automotive industry in trouble; like the same kind of a problem that got the steel company in trouble; like the same kind of problems that have seen businesses go down the drain forever, which is, "Oh, just raise the prices; give us more money." No way, folks. There just is no way to continue to pay people more money for doing the same amount of work.

In one of the telegrams, it said, "But we have to travel great distances." Oh, do you? Who said you have to travel great distances? Who said you have to go from one side of this country to the other to sponsor someone? You know, Jay and I started in this business in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We built our business in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We lived off the volume we generated in this town. We lived with the people we sponsored; we lived with the ones who chose not to be sponsored. But we developed a reputation in our own community of operating an honorable business, and we were able to sponsor people in this town regularly. And when, finally, others developed in leadership roles in our Nutralite business, we went fifty miles away to Lansing, Michigan, or we went to Holland, Michigan, or we went to Detroit, a hundred and fifty miles away. And I remember driving those nights; I remember coming out of Detroit after a midnight meeting and driving home because it saved the twenty bucks of a hotel room, and we did it every week, year in and year out. We didn't talk about suites; we just wondered where there was a cheap hotel to stay in.

You know, folks, it's time we got back to the fundamentals of this business. There is no way to put a lot of money in this Plan, other than a very simple one. I can show you how to double your income; and that is by doubling your volume. Somebody says, "Put an extra one percent in at all levels." And those who don't know should know that a one percent payout in the Plan at least is a four percent increase at the retail level. And somebody glibly says, "Put some more money in at every level." Do you think Direct Distributors are going to do flipflops over getting twenty-six percent instead of twenty-five? I don't think so. But I can show 'em how to get an extra fifty or sixty percent if they'll get out and sell some merchandise. I guess if I'd been told all these years you don't have to sell the product, all you have to do is wholesale it to people, then I guess maybe I wouldn't pay any attention to pricing, either. But that's an illegal business. And those of you that preach it and foster it and talk about it are operating illegally. I don't know how often I have to tell you that. I don't know how long I have to keep insisting that you talk upon people retailing the product and gaining customers and servicing them faithfully, only to have some of you just throw it up in the air and say, "That's not our way. We don't teach that method." I got to tell you, you're running the wrong method. You see, once you'd accept the fact that you must sell the product at retail to have an honest business, then you suddenly are very concerned about the pricing of the product. And once you understand that, you don't just glibly say, "Oh, take it out of the corporate coffers; just raise the price a little bit;" because those dollars do not exist there.

Somebody says, "You guys make a lot of money." That's right. And when you have a billion dollar a year business, you'll make a lot of money. But I'll tell you, We didn't make a lot of money by operating a hundred thousand dollar a year business and seeing how we could suck it dry. We built a billion dollar a year business. And when you work towards getting products retailed at that level, I'll tell you, we'll make money in this business. The problem is, some of you are trying to figure out how to make a lot of money without gettin' the volume that you need.

Somebody said, "I want to make more money." Let me tell you how. I don't have an extra one percent for you. I got an extra fifty-five to sixty-five percent for you. I'll tell you, folks, you can't beat that. But some of you have got a warped viewpoint of what makes a business operate; and once you get back to the idea that your business will grow in direct relationship to your ability to retail products, then you'll overcome the biggest mental handicap you have right now. And, maybe -- Let me tell you something. Maybe it's time you trusted the old, fifty-seven year old man instead of some people who been in this business a few years and have never worked it at the fundamental level, and they're telling you all about it. Well, let me tell you, maybe they don't know all about it. And I'll make some more comments about that as I go along:

The other question always comes up, you know, and it's -- it's a -- it's a good question: "Why didn't you bring it to the Board?" And maybe as I develop that theme for you a little bit you'll catch on to a few other things and maybe there'll be some applications to your own operations that you better start to think very seriously about.

Here's one of those letters: "We thought we voted on the Board to represent us." Well, you voted for people on the Board to do certain things and, indeed, to represent you and, indeed, to present your viewpoints and, indeed, to bring your opinions to us on all legal issues. But, whoever told you, and all those of you who say, "It should have come to the Board," whoever told you that doesn't know the law. Oh, they're experts. But they're -- You know, it's like a -- like this old, western cowboy used to say, you know -- He used to say, "All of us are ignorant, only on different subjects."

Now, you know, this is a very complex business world we live in, so let me put it to you real fast and straight. The Board is, indeed, an organization that represents your viewpoints. It indeed does visit with us on this business. But some of your so-called experts, who are telling you that it should have gone to the Board, don't know, is that for this company to discuss with the Board pricing on any product is a federal offense. It is known as price fixing. And we have a little experience with that and the FTC, by the way, that maybe your leader didn't tell you about or he forgot about it.

Maybe you've been reading in the papers lately about the president of a major airline, who casually said to his competitor, "Why don't you raise your prices twenty percent, and I'll raise mine?" And he has now been charged with a federal crime. Simple little statement. And, so, whoever told you that you must insist we bring it to the Board doesn't know what they're talking about.

But, you know, there's problems beyond that one. Let me just bring up another little side issue for you, and not too incidental. Some of you are screaming at us on the twenty percent. Some of you self-righteously say, "Oh, we have less than twenty percent in tapes and books and side issues in our other business." The Amway Corporation does in excess of a billion. If we only did ten percent -- not just in books and tapes; but let's talk about rallies and all the other things we tell our people to pay for; put it all together.

Let's assume we're taking out a hundred million dollars a year. We have placed a maximum on tapes and books at two hundred million that we would allow. I don't know what you might allow. But when you get into those kinds of numbers, if you want to hear a scandal, just read about it in the papers. You present wonderful numbers on the blackboard about all the money they can make. Maybe you ought to tell them about all you're going to take from them before they make any. Maybe that would be the rest of the story. But, you see, those are fantastic numbers. Our legal people tell us, "Boy, if it gets over ten percent!" Finally, they agreed, that maybe somewhere between ten and twenty is acceptable. Maybe that would be considered reasonable by governmental authorities. We assume it will be. We really hope it never gets to those numbers.

We didn't start out with BV on tapes to get to those numbers. We didn't start out with it to capture the market. We put it in, by the way, to be a competing force and to draw your attention to the kind of potential abuse that we thought was there, which we now know is there, with a kind of power and pressure I never believed; and I am not going to take all afternoon to read you the horror stories of the people who say, "I'm connected with such and such a system. I have $8,000 worth of their tapes in my basement. They will not take them back," and the others who were told to mortgage their houses, cash in their life insurance, told to go to the bank to borrow because this big weekend seminar was so important. Well, that's extracting money.

Let me talk to you about the legal side, beyond price fixing, that deals with pyramids, that deals with the illegal operation of a business that does not have an end consumer, where the product is not retailed. That would include all books and tapes. The sad news, folks, is that when those things go out that way and they become excessive, beyond my ten or twenty percent theoretical guideline, hopefully acceptable, to where it's a reasonable support system, but not beyond the reasonable element, then it becomes an out and out illegal pyramid. Why BV on tapes? That's why. It was time to bring some reasonableness to all of this. We also didn't take it to the Board, by the way, because we didn't really want to put a Board member on the spot. We have Board members who operate pretty big systems. It would have been a kind of an embarrassment to put him in the crossfire; so we just decided not to even discuss it at that level. Despite the fact that it would have been illegal to do so, we just decided it would have been the wrong place to talk about it, because we had to move to tend to some of the problems that I've just been discussing with you.

Well, let me pause a minute and look through my grab bag of mail a minute and see if I can't find if what -- a few other good examples for you and then plead with you to do some very simple things. It's time to get on track. That's all. It's time to do some very simple things, and they are ail outlined in the Ten Points that I gave you in last month's tape. And if you haven't listened to it, listen to it again; because there's no sense in my going all through it now. But, in truth, those Ten Points embody all the elements of what we want to talk about.

And, now, let me give you some of the other expressions that I've received and -- without trying to be negative on it; just trying to touch the high points here. Here's a little list. I'll kind of run through some of 'em. "You just want the tape business, you greedy monster." That's a great question, isn't it? I really don't want the tape business. As I told you before, if the tape business becomes a big business, I'm going to have to cut it down to size. I'm going to have to restrict it. I don't want it to be a big business. I want it to be exactly what it should be; and that is a reasonable, economical, for the industry better support system to the [selling] and sponsoring in the Amway Plan. That's all I want.

If the tape business becomes substantial and earns substantial dollars, I have a couple of choices, one of which is to lower the prices; because we want to keep it at a reasonable level. Why? Because the goal of Amway has always been one, and that is to give the average guy on the street, who's scared to death of his mother-in-law, a chance to make a new beginning. That's the principle. We didn't start this business to see what we could take from him. We started this business to see what we could help them achieve; and I'm afraid some of you got the business backwards. I'm not sure some of you are in the Amway business. You really don't care whether that guy achieves. You like to think you do. You give me long letters about how -- I got one here, and, you know, it says, "Before I got in using tapes" my business was so much. Now that I'm using tapes, it's doubled." Now I'm a Diamond, and I have done so well; and it's all because of the tapes." I -- I'm -- I'm glad it -- it worked for you, Diamond. I'm proud of you. Why don't I have a hundred thousand Diamonds if all it takes is the tapes? Why, it's so easy. Just give 'em the tapes, and they're Diamonds next week. Or does it take four years? Who you kidding? Who's been telling you that stuff? Do the tapes help? Sure, they help. Do meetings help? Sure, they help. Are they the answer between winning and losing? No, they are not.

Our achievement numbers haven't changed at all with this tremendous burden of systems. I and you cannot prove an any higher ratio of achievement than you had before. Are they better people for it? Possibly. Is it a good way of communication? Absolutely. Does it help get good ideas through the organization quickly and effectively? You bet your life it does. And, therefore, it is a helpful device.

Don't get me wrong. Don't say I said tapes were bad. I have never said tapes were bad, because we sold 'em long before you did. We think they're a super means of communication. Do I have a problem with big meetings and rallies? Lands no. I was putting on big meetings and rallies before some of you ever got out of your diapers. I made speeches on that stuff thirty years ago, before huge meetings. Some of you act like that's all new stuff. That's not new stuff. It's only a question of how you operate it and where you price it and whether the people feel it's worth it. And I've got to tell you, you got to review that carefully. And a little competition will help keep you in line, too.

Side B

We11, let's try another one, since I am so greedy. "Why didn't you do it sooner? Why do it now? It will be devisive." Now, those are good questions. We been lookin' at it for three or four years. Three years ago we talked about it. Some of you sent letters, said, "Why don't you put BV on tapes?" I can remember some of you guys who were in big tape programs begging us to put BV on tapes years ago. We considered it. We kept thinking the problem would go away. We thought competition between the people and the field would keep the pricing down. But it didn't work that way.

There was a subtle pressure put into this organization that I never felt would exist. I watch people being intimidated, threatened, coerced, scared. My mail has got in it letters from p
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#30 Consumer Comment

Your naievite will catch up with you!

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Heather, your rebuttal was the very definition of eloquence. Perhaps you can answer me a few questions.

How exactly did you "fulling" look into Quixtar before you signed on? Did you make sure you knew what the market was actually like for their product and their manner of delivering that product? Did you investigate to make sure that you would actually be giving your future clients a good value? Did you check into what the average returns are on the investments involved? Did you do any research whatsoever outside of the promotional materials given you by your recruiter? If you did, did you pay any attention to the results of your research?

Being that I can say with 90% certainty that you did NO research, and 100% certainty that you ignored (or could not understand) the results of any objective research, I would like to ask how it is that you can fault others for not "fulling" looking in to the opportunity beforehand?

The problem, Heather, is that the verifiable truth undermines your central assumption: that success can be achieved in Quixtar so long as one has the right attitude. You need look no further than your IBO recruitment materials to see that the average IBO has a Quixtar income of $110 per month. It is logically impossible, given this figure (which comes from Quixtar itself), to simaltaneously believe 1) that there are huge successes and 2) that there is a good chance of being one of them. I don't want to get into a mathematical analysis that I have performed already, so I direct you to the second and third paragraphs of my above rebuttal entitled "Stay Away from Quixar for All Purposes."

You state that Emily had difficulties because her dreams were just too small to go anywhere. That's a possible answer, but by no means possible enough to declare it as truth. Here's a far more likely scenario: a highly skewed commission sharing plan as the sole source of income, repeated investments in bogus motivational materials, wasted time, colleagues who felt that pep-rallies were more important than family weddings, a product line that is grossly overpriced, a purchasing method that nobody wants to use, etc., all added up and Emily, being a rational being, realized that she was being scammed.

When will you come to such a realization, Heather? It's only a matter of time. Hopefully, for your sake, it doesn't take too much time, because the more time you allow yourself to be victimized, the longer it will take you to repair the harm done to you by these frauds.

Does Jesus want you to be rich? Who knows, but I can tell you this: if Jesus really wants you to be rich, Heather, then he's probably quite disappointed right now. If Jesus wants you to be rich, then you should do the folowing things for him: 1) stop wasting money on pyramid schemes and invest in an education. Your communication skills are attrocious, and effective communication, not blind faith, is the key to success; 2) stop listening to/reading bogus motivational materials - this garbage is full of some of the worst advice imaginable; 3) learn that sole purpose of running a business is to make money, not friends, and if you think that being around people that you like is the key to success, that you will never find success; 4) be skeptical of anything that can be called an "opportunity!"

Heather, I really hope that you wise up soon. You are incredibly naive and far too trustful, and I know you don't want to hear it, but this is what attracted your recruiter in the first place. It might not seem like it, but mulit-level-marketing is the seediest of industries, and the exploitation involved far exceeds anything in the porn industry, gambling, etc.

If you really think that Jesus wants you to be rich (a sentiment that contradicts the most basic teachings of Jesus), then you know how to do it. And you knwo that Quixtar isn't it. You can keep justifying your ignoring of the dissenters by assuming what their motivations are, but the truth will catch up with you someday.

I invite you to come back in a
year and tell us what's going on in your life, and how your experience with Quixtar has turned out. This invitation has been extended to countless MLM supporters over the years, and I have yet to see one person take us up on it.
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#31 Consumer Comment

Quixtars Not For Everyone

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

I am also a Christian and I am in Quixtar and have been for hte last three years, I love this business and the people I work with. All you are blaming the business itself. I blame you the people for not fulling looking in to the business. Thats your fault.

I'm guessing that after you signed up and found out that you hated the business that you went online and looked up how to get your money back? You have 90days to a year. Also when they told you that you Had to spend 35$ a month on kate and Had to read for 15min. a day and Had to go met people they also held a gun to your head to make you to these things.

Maybe these functions to you were guilt functions because the only life you wanted to better was your own and when you saw that you true colors came out and you weren't too faund of them.

People that get in just to make money and they don't care about anyone but them self don't last long and thats probably why you hated it. I love to help out in anyones life that I can I go to church when it's offerd at the meetings and I spend the Word. There is NOT a tape called "god Wants You To Be Rich" it's a book why don't you take that one up with the Author Paul Pilzer.

Another thing is we have business' like Barnes and Noble, Office Max, Disney Store, IBM, Microsoft, JC Whitney and many, many more large companies with us so, all of you that thinks this business is a ripe off you better call Bill Gates and all the other companies lawyers and let them know that they are working with a no good company(Quixtar)and they are going to get ripped off.
I hope after reading these stores people aren't turned off by Quixtar it's an amazing business and remember the person that sponsers you might not be the right one. You can always ask for someone else (through quixtar). This business does make dreams come true. They just didn't for emily because her dreams were too small to go any were.
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#32 Consumer Comment

What church do you go to?

AUTHOR: Yeah - (U.S.A.)

That's how my "Introduction to Quixtar" conversation ended the first time I heard about the company! I was working in a kiosk in the local mall and was helping this woman with my products and she was asking me what I wanted to do in life, since I'm only 18, and I was telling her one day I'd like to run a business or whatever...well that was the wrong thing to say to her!!!! I met with her about 3 times before I finally just told her I didn't feel comfortable with the whole idea. The whole God behind the company thing was kind of weird, although I am a Christian, but their method of getting someone's attention are just sneaky and MLM. This is exactly why Circuit City works with this company and not Best Buy!!
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#33 Consumer Comment

Stay away from Quixtar for all purposes!

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Quixtar is indeed a fraud. Probably not on a legal level (anymore), but most certainly as a matter of pragmatics.

let's start with the obvious. If you read the materials given you when you were recruited as an IBO, there should have been a pamphlet with the following phrase (or something to this effect) conspicuously placed thereon: "Active IBOs earn an average of $110 per month."

$110 per month, people! Now, the obvious defense to this figure is "Many people make more than that, and even if I only make $110 per month, it's and extra $110 in my pocket!" This defense is self-defeating, however. Consider this: if so many as 1% of IBOs were earning at least $100,000 per year, the remaining 99% would only average about 27$ per month. If so much as 10% of IBOs were even making a minimum wage income, the remaining 90% would average about $18 per month! So, the statement that there are people making good money with Quixtar, when coupled with the known statistic, also says that there are many MORE people making far less than the paltry $110 per month.

The second obvious factor: the value of Quixtar products. I urge anyone who thinks that they're getting some sort of good deal by shopping with Quixtar to do an honest comparison. I have done this myself. I used the discounted IBO price on 25 routine purchases, and then compared the price of products of similar quality and quantity at my local supermarket. The Quixtar cost was more than 30% higher than the local supermarket cost. I then compared the Quixtar product prices to the items that I would actually buy at the local store (in the first comparison I went with the high-end products at the supermarket because Quixtar's products are allegedly superior). When the Quixtar total was compared with what I would actually spend, Quixtar was more expensive by about 50%.

The big surprise in this comparison was that it took me an hour and a half to do my shopping on Quixtar, and 45 minutes (including driving time) at the local store. My conclusion: Quixtar was neither cheaper (in fact it was far more expensive) nor more convenient (in fact it took twice as long) than my local supermarket.

Now for the less obvious. If you run a business projection using Quixtar's commission sharing scheme of PVs and BVs you will find that, at a certain point of success, your downline will be consuming so much commission that there is nothing left for you. A maximum commision of 25% is paid out on each product for the entire network, not for each individual in the chain. If I have a network of four people that are at a level entitling them to 6% commissions on their sales, 24% of an available 25% of commission is being consumed, and I am left with a meager 1% commission on their sales. If any of them moves up in commission entitlement, I am wiped out. So what happens to me?

Well, this is where my compensation starts to come from other sources, primarily the sale of motivational materials. This is where the true beauty of this scheme comes into play. Lower level IBOs are convinced to buy these materials because, if they don't, they will not be as successful. These materials, however, are mere vehicles for a message of blind-faith whose sole purpose is to trick naive IBOs to ignore their failures and focus insteaad on the alleged successes of others. There is no valuable business advice contained in these materials, just a continualy delivered lie that the system works for those who keep at it.

With a knowledge of business and law, I have listened to some of these tapes and read some of the materials. I found them, at best, to be full of useless garbage, and at worst potentially destructive to those who follow their advice. Believe me, if you follow Robert Kiyosaki's advice for a prolonged period of time, you will either end up very poor or very incarcerated.

Blind faith is no way to run a business, and any time somebody wants you to pay them for the privilege of being convinced that what you are doing is good, you would be well advised to take a step back and think real hard about what you've gotten yourself into.

But blind faith is the only way to keep IBOs on board. If they weren't continually told that this will eventually pan out for them, the average retention rate would drop dramatically. Think about it: if you were told nothing but the truth about this operation - that virtually nobody makes any kind of meaningful money, that most people spend more on start-up fees and motivational materials than they earn, that your recruiter has probably grossly inflated his income, that the products are vastly overpriced and virtually unmarketable, etc. - would you stick around? Would you stick around after you had worked the plan for a while and seen its flaws for yourself? I should hope the answer is no.

But IBOs are continually delivered the message via weekly meetings (that they sometimes have to pay for), books and CDs (that they usually have to pay for), and conferences (that they always have to pay for), that what is happening to them thus far is a fluke, and that the system works for those who put the work into it. And what is the answer if they start to question the system? "Maybe you need to read Rich Dad/Poor Dad again." Just don't question how it is that Mr. Kiyosaki could have retired in 1985 when, according to a previous book, he was bankrupt and homeless that same year.

You can call me a dream stealer, but I'm just trying to wake you up. If you want to be successful, get yourself an education and a good job. I'll take working for someone else and making money over working for myself and losing money any day.
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#34 Consumer Comment

Stay away from Quixtar for all purposes!

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Quixtar is indeed a fraud. Probably not on a legal level (anymore), but most certainly as a matter of pragmatics.

let's start with the obvious. If you read the materials given you when you were recruited as an IBO, there should have been a pamphlet with the following phrase (or something to this effect) conspicuously placed thereon: "Active IBOs earn an average of $110 per month."

$110 per month, people! Now, the obvious defense to this figure is "Many people make more than that, and even if I only make $110 per month, it's and extra $110 in my pocket!" This defense is self-defeating, however. Consider this: if so many as 1% of IBOs were earning at least $100,000 per year, the remaining 99% would only average about 27$ per month. If so much as 10% of IBOs were even making a minimum wage income, the remaining 90% would average about $18 per month! So, the statement that there are people making good money with Quixtar, when coupled with the known statistic, also says that there are many MORE people making far less than the paltry $110 per month.

The second obvious factor: the value of Quixtar products. I urge anyone who thinks that they're getting some sort of good deal by shopping with Quixtar to do an honest comparison. I have done this myself. I used the discounted IBO price on 25 routine purchases, and then compared the price of products of similar quality and quantity at my local supermarket. The Quixtar cost was more than 30% higher than the local supermarket cost. I then compared the Quixtar product prices to the items that I would actually buy at the local store (in the first comparison I went with the high-end products at the supermarket because Quixtar's products are allegedly superior). When the Quixtar total was compared with what I would actually spend, Quixtar was more expensive by about 50%.

The big surprise in this comparison was that it took me an hour and a half to do my shopping on Quixtar, and 45 minutes (including driving time) at the local store. My conclusion: Quixtar was neither cheaper (in fact it was far more expensive) nor more convenient (in fact it took twice as long) than my local supermarket.

Now for the less obvious. If you run a business projection using Quixtar's commission sharing scheme of PVs and BVs you will find that, at a certain point of success, your downline will be consuming so much commission that there is nothing left for you. A maximum commision of 25% is paid out on each product for the entire network, not for each individual in the chain. If I have a network of four people that are at a level entitling them to 6% commissions on their sales, 24% of an available 25% of commission is being consumed, and I am left with a meager 1% commission on their sales. If any of them moves up in commission entitlement, I am wiped out. So what happens to me?

Well, this is where my compensation starts to come from other sources, primarily the sale of motivational materials. This is where the true beauty of this scheme comes into play. Lower level IBOs are convinced to buy these materials because, if they don't, they will not be as successful. These materials, however, are mere vehicles for a message of blind-faith whose sole purpose is to trick naive IBOs to ignore their failures and focus insteaad on the alleged successes of others. There is no valuable business advice contained in these materials, just a continualy delivered lie that the system works for those who keep at it.

With a knowledge of business and law, I have listened to some of these tapes and read some of the materials. I found them, at best, to be full of useless garbage, and at worst potentially destructive to those who follow their advice. Believe me, if you follow Robert Kiyosaki's advice for a prolonged period of time, you will either end up very poor or very incarcerated.

Blind faith is no way to run a business, and any time somebody wants you to pay them for the privilege of being convinced that what you are doing is good, you would be well advised to take a step back and think real hard about what you've gotten yourself into.

But blind faith is the only way to keep IBOs on board. If they weren't continually told that this will eventually pan out for them, the average retention rate would drop dramatically. Think about it: if you were told nothing but the truth about this operation - that virtually nobody makes any kind of meaningful money, that most people spend more on start-up fees and motivational materials than they earn, that your recruiter has probably grossly inflated his income, that the products are vastly overpriced and virtually unmarketable, etc. - would you stick around? Would you stick around after you had worked the plan for a while and seen its flaws for yourself? I should hope the answer is no.

But IBOs are continually delivered the message via weekly meetings (that they sometimes have to pay for), books and CDs (that they usually have to pay for), and conferences (that they always have to pay for), that what is happening to them thus far is a fluke, and that the system works for those who put the work into it. And what is the answer if they start to question the system? "Maybe you need to read Rich Dad/Poor Dad again." Just don't question how it is that Mr. Kiyosaki could have retired in 1985 when, according to a previous book, he was bankrupt and homeless that same year.

You can call me a dream stealer, but I'm just trying to wake you up. If you want to be successful, get yourself an education and a good job. I'll take working for someone else and making money over working for myself and losing money any day.
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#35 Consumer Comment

Stay away from Quixtar for all purposes!

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Quixtar is indeed a fraud. Probably not on a legal level (anymore), but most certainly as a matter of pragmatics.

let's start with the obvious. If you read the materials given you when you were recruited as an IBO, there should have been a pamphlet with the following phrase (or something to this effect) conspicuously placed thereon: "Active IBOs earn an average of $110 per month."

$110 per month, people! Now, the obvious defense to this figure is "Many people make more than that, and even if I only make $110 per month, it's and extra $110 in my pocket!" This defense is self-defeating, however. Consider this: if so many as 1% of IBOs were earning at least $100,000 per year, the remaining 99% would only average about 27$ per month. If so much as 10% of IBOs were even making a minimum wage income, the remaining 90% would average about $18 per month! So, the statement that there are people making good money with Quixtar, when coupled with the known statistic, also says that there are many MORE people making far less than the paltry $110 per month.

The second obvious factor: the value of Quixtar products. I urge anyone who thinks that they're getting some sort of good deal by shopping with Quixtar to do an honest comparison. I have done this myself. I used the discounted IBO price on 25 routine purchases, and then compared the price of products of similar quality and quantity at my local supermarket. The Quixtar cost was more than 30% higher than the local supermarket cost. I then compared the Quixtar product prices to the items that I would actually buy at the local store (in the first comparison I went with the high-end products at the supermarket because Quixtar's products are allegedly superior). When the Quixtar total was compared with what I would actually spend, Quixtar was more expensive by about 50%.

The big surprise in this comparison was that it took me an hour and a half to do my shopping on Quixtar, and 45 minutes (including driving time) at the local store. My conclusion: Quixtar was neither cheaper (in fact it was far more expensive) nor more convenient (in fact it took twice as long) than my local supermarket.

Now for the less obvious. If you run a business projection using Quixtar's commission sharing scheme of PVs and BVs you will find that, at a certain point of success, your downline will be consuming so much commission that there is nothing left for you. A maximum commision of 25% is paid out on each product for the entire network, not for each individual in the chain. If I have a network of four people that are at a level entitling them to 6% commissions on their sales, 24% of an available 25% of commission is being consumed, and I am left with a meager 1% commission on their sales. If any of them moves up in commission entitlement, I am wiped out. So what happens to me?

Well, this is where my compensation starts to come from other sources, primarily the sale of motivational materials. This is where the true beauty of this scheme comes into play. Lower level IBOs are convinced to buy these materials because, if they don't, they will not be as successful. These materials, however, are mere vehicles for a message of blind-faith whose sole purpose is to trick naive IBOs to ignore their failures and focus insteaad on the alleged successes of others. There is no valuable business advice contained in these materials, just a continualy delivered lie that the system works for those who keep at it.

With a knowledge of business and law, I have listened to some of these tapes and read some of the materials. I found them, at best, to be full of useless garbage, and at worst potentially destructive to those who follow their advice. Believe me, if you follow Robert Kiyosaki's advice for a prolonged period of time, you will either end up very poor or very incarcerated.

Blind faith is no way to run a business, and any time somebody wants you to pay them for the privilege of being convinced that what you are doing is good, you would be well advised to take a step back and think real hard about what you've gotten yourself into.

But blind faith is the only way to keep IBOs on board. If they weren't continually told that this will eventually pan out for them, the average retention rate would drop dramatically. Think about it: if you were told nothing but the truth about this operation - that virtually nobody makes any kind of meaningful money, that most people spend more on start-up fees and motivational materials than they earn, that your recruiter has probably grossly inflated his income, that the products are vastly overpriced and virtually unmarketable, etc. - would you stick around? Would you stick around after you had worked the plan for a while and seen its flaws for yourself? I should hope the answer is no.

But IBOs are continually delivered the message via weekly meetings (that they sometimes have to pay for), books and CDs (that they usually have to pay for), and conferences (that they always have to pay for), that what is happening to them thus far is a fluke, and that the system works for those who put the work into it. And what is the answer if they start to question the system? "Maybe you need to read Rich Dad/Poor Dad again." Just don't question how it is that Mr. Kiyosaki could have retired in 1985 when, according to a previous book, he was bankrupt and homeless that same year.

You can call me a dream stealer, but I'm just trying to wake you up. If you want to be successful, get yourself an education and a good job. I'll take working for someone else and making money over working for myself and losing money any day.
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#36 Consumer Suggestion

Rule Of Thumb. Anytime a person uses the term or terms: We, Us, I am a good Christian or we are good Christians, put your hand over your wallet and run like hell!!

AUTHOR: Cory - (U.S.A.)

My rule of thumb; Anytime a person uses the term or terms: We, Us, I am a good Christian or we are good Christians, put your hand over your wallet and run like hell. In '93, a friend signed me up for amway. Hung on for a few months , to see what the deal was. Wasn't impressed and dealt with some unscrouplous people. The final draw was where I had ordered 10 lbs. of soap powder and my upline delivers a 30 lb box. Trying to inflate their sales. Now this was a "friend" of mine and I could use the powder so I just paid the difference. I got"pricejacked". But that was typical of the mentality of these people. Here comes 2003 and I get approach by a quixtar rep. Same old line of BS except they have updated it for the new century. They invite me to a "rally" for the following weekend and they'll"pay my way". When we sit down, they hand me a booklet with some "products" I'll get for"free" once I join up after paying $185. It's an AMWAY booklet. Listen to the guest speaker from Houston. Complete with the roaring,loud music and the idiot, subsurvient wife who parrots his line. Including, if I sign up for their telephone service, I'll make an instant check for $6. I had to laugh, in '93 it was $2. I guess with inflation and all. Another rule. When a guy wants to "get togeather" with you and your wife, he either wants your money or your wife or both. Hey, everyone answers the questions the "right" way. I have a business and I approached it in a somewhat different manner then they were use to. They now have that internet thing. I asked them what the prices are and what discounts will be available to my customers and such. You know, the usual business questions. He tells me"price doesn't matter, none of that matters", just buy the stuff. That's a sound business plan. So folks, if you want to save yourself some money, time and grief don't bother.
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#37 UPDATE Employee

ACTIVE QUIXTAR MEMBER

AUTHOR: S - (U.S.A.)

The company is not a fraud. The people you dealt with were, well, there's no other way to say it, stupid!

I have to say that was an unfortunate experience you had. I had a similar experience with some of my "upline" about attending the meetings, but when I made it clear that I was not buying the cassettes, attending all of the functions, etc...they finally got the picture and left me alone. And I didn't have to make that kind of investment, either. My initial investment was only $30+, and it's that same price annually. I don't recall anyone ever trying to use God, either. (By the way, if you've ever sold Mary Kay, you'll hear the same thing-and MK reps, don't jump up in arms. I use some of the produc. I just hated selling it.)

I am very happy with Quixtar as I primarily use it to purchase products for myself, friends, and family. I save far more than $30 a year on the product, as do my friends and family.

I'm never bothered by anyone in my upline, and I even work with one of them at our day jobs! She's the same way. We do it for the discounts. And while not all of the products are things I prefer, I've found that the items I choose to buy are far superior and less expensive than the competitors.

I've met people that have made quite a bit of money in this business, and I must admit that this is why I originally joined, but I haven't put any effort into the business, and am ok with that because I like the products I'm buying. I have helped others join for the same reason, and some continue, and some don't.

It's too bad that you had this experience. Not all people are like that. Some are just plain annoying because they're extremely driven (some of my upline), and expect me to be the same way. I'm driven, but not to the point that my friends ask me to leave, LOL!

Sorry you had such a bad experience, but we're not all like those people were to you. And yes, I'm a Christian, but I don't use God to get ahead in my business.

Good luck.
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#38 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Blame the PEOPLE; not the company

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Whenever anyone has a complaint about Quixtar/Amway/Alticor, etc. they tell about things that the PEOPLE they were in partnership were doing to them to try to rip them off, but you never hear about what the company itself has done to mistreat them, and you probably won't.

PLEASE do not associate the PEOPLE that are mistreating you with the company itself. This company has been upstanding ever since its inception in 1958. It would not have remained so succssful for so long it, if there was no moral integrity in the leadership of the corporation.

So, its fine if you have some legitimate information you have to bash the "PEOPLE" you were in partnerhip with, but DO NOT name the company, because they have no associations with their dealings. For example, Microsoft is not a bad company, just because its employees don't get along, right? And it's like that with anything. Churches aren't bad just because its parishers can't get along. Just because the people in the business have supposedly mistreated you, that doesn't make the company bad, does it?

Amway is a great company for great people. Stop being petty and go out and try to develop a better business than Amway it you don't like it that much. The time you spent writing your complaint could be spent helping other people become successul and prosperous. Wake up and smell the coffee, will ya?
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#39 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I am Christian, but I will not be associated with a company that is corrupt.

AUTHOR: Emily - (U.S.A.)

Your response is just like the horror stories I've read about from other websites. "Don't steal your husband's dream". Well, especially after reading about the "tools business" and seeing the Dateline Special, and also especially because of the "pressure" from our uplines to go to every function, even if there was a wedding going on (Oh, just send him a gift), all in all, they got that information from somewhere, and they're putting everything else in their lives below Quixtar.

So, no thanks for your input, it's not me stealing my husband's dream. Giving credit to God is one thing... Using God to get gain is quite another, and it's a little fishy that every single "Christian" out there that is in Quixtar makes their experiences more of a sermon than a testimonial.

There are lots of corrupt "Christians" out there. I am Christian, but I will not be associated with a company that is corrupt. Just listening to some of the tapes, and reading some of the information on this company and its history can tell me clearly that this is not a solid, God-like company.

Thanks but no thanks.
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#40 Consumer Comment

Sounds like some bad pressure ..uplines are christians and speak of christ

AUTHOR: Josh - (U.S.A.)

I personaly believe that most uplines are christians and speak of christ because they credit him with their success, as should every christian.

I you have to little faith to ask God if its write or wrong and go on sneaky intuition or listen to the first opposing whisper you hear you should be ashamed.

If you do not believe in christ or, after prayer, believe that the team you were on was honestly USING Gods name you should at least have been strong enough to let the comments and Pressure rub off your shoulder and built the business to truly glorify God in your group/family or again, if you are not christian, built it for your dreams and not be so selfish as to deprive your husband of his.
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