I heard about the class on handling guns on the Peter Boyles show. I signed up on the phone in April for my daughter and I to take the class. The total cost was $1500 and the first available class was the end of August. Because of changing circumstances, we decided to cancel the classes and about 2 weeks ago My daughter called to cancel. The employee on the phone said the classes were non-refundable and that we signed a contract to that affect. When my daughter called and told me, I informed her that I didn't sign anything and did not know that it was non-refundable. She called back and the employee said she would have to talk to the instructor and that he was out of town and would call her back. She had to call several times and finally was called back by the owner Rich Wyatt. These are the points from the conversation:
1. He said we signed a contract and we were required to sign this within 3 days of signing up--she told him no and there were no papers signed.
2. He said I was given a verbal instruction that there are no refunds--she said no.
3. During the whole conversation he kept calling her a liar and kept talking over her and kept escalating.
4. She then told him that we would dispute it with the credit card company and he could then deal with them. He quickly told her he was going to sue her and she told him "If that is what you need to do Rich, then we will handle it that way." She again said we did not sign any papers.
5. He then told her to come down in an hour and he would refund the money. She at the time was talking on her cell phone and on the way to a Dr. appointment with her children and he called her a liar and that she could be there. She said "do you want my GPS coordinates and an itenerary of where I am at and where I am going? He then told her to meet him on Sat at noon July 11.
When she got off the phone she called me and told me how mean, nasty and intimidating he was and I told her not to go as I was concerned for her safety and I would go.
I called and his employee told me he was in a meeting (after I gave him my name), I then told the employee to leave a message with him and let him know that my daughter would not be coming on Sat and that it was not convienient for me and to call so that we could set up a time.
He called me back later and I told him the above, He asked when I wanted to come in and I told him Tues. We agreed that he would call me on Tues and let me know when we could set up a time.
Today Tues July 14, he did not call and I left 2 messages. Finally through his employee he said to "come in now" I told them I would be there in within the hour.
Earlier in the day I did call my credit card company and to ask if I really had to go in to sign papers and they told me no. They said they could start the proceedings for a cc dispute, but I told them I wanted to go in and talk to the merchant first---I am a firm believer that talking to people first in a civilized manner that solutions can be agreed upon.--My mistake with this person.
I had a friend go with me as I felt like I wanted a witness after hearing the report from my daughter. My daughter kept telling me that he would try to intimidate me and would try to "trip me up" on something. I thought that I could go in and get the refund and all would be settled.
He was personable at the start but said he needed to talk to me first before he would give me a refund.
We sat in chairs in the main room of his shop and he start "interagating me" Rich was in the policeforce before and I could see his tactic right away.
He had the employee there that he said talked to me and He said the employee told me that the classes were non-refundable--I told him that I did not recall the employee ever saying that. I did hear him say that we would have to come in sometime before the class to sign some papers--I said was this for liability at the class and he confirmed this--I never heard him say the class was non-refundable--and I do not like that kind of practice or I would not have signed up for a class 4 months out as things do happen to prevent
people from attending. He kept saying to me "So you heard the employee say it was non-refundable?" I said "I do not recall him saying this" Rich kept saying "So you do not recall so you are saying he did say this but you can't remember" I said "No I do not recall him ever saying this" Rich repeated this several times to try and "trip me up" and I could see where he was going. My friend who was standing behind me said--This is a he said she said thing, just get on with the refund" He Then turned to my friend and was so nasty--Like two different people--He yelled at her and said who are you and I am not dealing with you--you wanna be lawyer--She very comly told him to just get on with the transaction--He then escalated and was so irate and started calling me a liar and that my daughter was just like me and we were both liars (I said I was glad as I was very proud of my daughter) I stood up and said Rich we have already discussed this and that I wanted a refund and I walked to the counter and said to have one of his employee's write up my refund--That at this point I didn't want him touching my card or to deal with him. He said only he could give credits. He then was nasty and said he was going to sue me and people like me were always trying to get away with things. My friend then said Just get on with the refund--He then started yelling at her and telling her to get out of his shop and off of his primises. I said no, I wanted her to be there as a witness. He shouted at her to get out you wanna be lawyer and in the state of Colorado a veral agreement would hold up in court. She told me she would wait for me outside and that I should just leave. He had my credit card at the time and I still thought it could be resolved. My friend told me to just leave. He kept yelling at her to get out, get out of my business and leave the parking lot as well--she said ok Rich and was leaving--he screamed at his employee to call the police and then said watch and make sure she immediately leaves the parking lot and let him know if she doesn't. The he said "she is the type of person that would sue me" I said very calmly "Like you Rich?"
He said yes and that he was going to sue me, I said Rich do you have any signatures or a recorded phone conversation to prove that I agreed to a non-refundable class--He said he had a witness, his employee, and I said Rich, he is your employee, of course he is going to say what you want him to. I then told him calmly that I had referred 7 people to his consealed weapons class, but I would not refer anyone else--He said that was great because he didn't want my type of people. (What type--people who wouldn't back down from him?)
He then asked for my driver's license and took it and my credit card to his back office. I stood at the counter for 10 min. waiting. He finally came out and said I had to sign a paper that said something to the effect that I was being given a $1500 refund even though I was told by his employee that it was not refundable. (Which I would not admit to) I told him I would not sign it and to give me the credit slip and I would sign--he said he would not give it to me until I signed--I then asked for my credit card and my driver's license and reached for them--He held it up and away from me and said he would not give them to me until I signed the paper. I told him the credit card company informed me I did not need to sign anything--He said they didn't run his business. I then wrote on the paper "Refused to sign" and put my initials on it. He again told me he was sueing me, put the cc recept in his cash register. I told him I wanted a copy and he refused to give it to me and said I could get a copy from my cc company--I said I signed it and wanted a copy--he said well you didn't get a copy when you gave it to us the first time. I went to leave and He had several employee's and two "customer friends" and he told me to have a good rest of the day--I replied I would and he said I am glad to see you going-- I don't need people like you. I heard his employees snickering and I said still in a calm voice you may be hearing from other people. (totally meaning I was going to report him to the Troubleshooter) He shouted "Is that a threat? and repeated it "Is that a threat? Did you hear her threaten me? I just walked out as he seemed like he was trying to bait me some more.
In the mean time my friend had called the police as I was in there a long time and she was worried for my safety. The police came just about the time I left and I told them all about my experience. There were two cars and two officers that came and they asked If I was ok and if I did get my refund as they would go in with me. I told them I was more concerned that I needed to at least report this to them in case something came of it. Apparently, trying to be PC about it the officers said they had been to his place several times with this type of problem and that Rich ran his business the way he wanted to. (They knew his name) They were very sympathetic and gave me one of their cards.
Remarks: I saw on his board he had 6 gunclasses with a "sold out" sign He didn't have anything available until Sept. I don't know why he was so escalated about this as he can readily fill the class and he was given almost 2 months notice. I can see why no refund on guns, but on a class that wasn't attended or even held yet? I have never in my life had a confrontation like this. I am an honest person and more times than any my family and friends tell me I am too honest and too much of a softy--First time I have been told I am a liar and deceitful When I simply asked for a refund on something I have not received--and of course the first time I was told I would be sued!?? I felt like he orchrastrated and tried to cause a fight with my friend to make sure that I didn't have a witness. She didn't jump at the bait and wouldn't get confrontational, so he ordered her off his premises. I am not sure why he took my credit card and license to the back room and why he had me waiting unless it was to do sometype of background check?? My reputation and background are impecable.
Question: Should I prepare for him to sue me? Would his employee's word against mine hold up in court as he said?
He is a nasty person and has poor customer relationship and practices. I want to warn people that they would be doing business "at their own risk" and especially women should refrain from any transactions with him as he seems to be especially overbearing and intimadating toward them.