• Report: #555172

Complaint Review: Seminar Crowds

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  • Submitted: Fri, January 15, 2010
  • Updated: Thu, February 03, 2011

  • Reported By: Ricky — Lynbrook New York United States of America
Seminar Crowds
1100 N. 4th Street Suite 128, Unit12 Fairfield, Iowa United States of America

Seminar Crowds Lied about the results their service would produce Fairfield, Iowa

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Seminar Crowds DO stink

*Author of original report: LIAR!!

*UPDATE Employee: Seminar Crowds! Inc. has hundreds of satisfied, returning customers...

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Seminar crowds came recommended to us. We wanted to use their mailer service. We were told that the relationship they had with credit bureaus took years to start. The data that was received from credit bureaus gave them the ability to provide great results. It all sounded so great on the first phone call. We were told that we would recieve a 1-1.5% call back on 2000 pieces of mail. This cost us 1600. After everything was said and done we received 3 phone calls. It took them almost 30 days to respond back to why it failed so bad. We were told that the data has changed and the numbers are off. Their offer was to order a 11,000 piece mailer at a cost of $5000 to see better results. That made me laugh. Spend more money after we already admitted we must up on the numbers. Companies like this should be shut down. We threw 1600 out the window. We might as well should have burned it.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/15/2010 02:44 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Seminar-Crowds/Fairfield-Iowa-52556/Seminar-Crowds-Lied-about-the-results-their-service-would-produce-Fairfield-Iowa-555172. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Seminar Crowds DO stink

AUTHOR: Keith Poe - (United States of America)

You are correct! Seminars Crowds LIE and do NOT provide service the verbally promised....

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#2 Author of original report


AUTHOR: Ricky - (United States of America)

Wow, you are such a liar. You are 70 something years old, and this is how you operate. You told us we would see a 1-1.5% (which we have in email) response rate. That the people you would be mailing would own home, and be of age for the program. Out of the  three phone calls we received 2 lived in  rent controlled apartment buildings.(great data btw) Your employee told me you admitted that the response rate was below what was told to us on the original conversation, and the data has changed. We are well aware nothing is guaranteed, but you told us how great your data was, and how terrific your relationships were with the credit bureaus. Lets  say for one second you actually did say .5 was apart of the response rate(which is a lie in your rebuttal); well guess what your response rate was a .0015. That is what you should be telling potential clients. An avergae is an average. No matter how you shake it. If it is 100, or 1,000,000 .0015% responded. You also did not suggest a larger mailer. You were just happy to take our mpney. If smaller mailers are going to make you look bad then why even sell them? If you warned us it was going to under perform why would we have bought it to begin with. BTW I also have (email) from your employee stating it makes sense to go small first and see how the mailer performs before we went with a larger order. IN regards to your vacation-You did not contact me. I have never heard form you since the original purchase. You left it to your employee. He did not tell us we should have went bigger. He did tell us to spend another 5,000 for a larger order, but even agreed it made no sense for us to have faith in your product. I dont care what those testiominals say on your website. Anyone can write anything they want it doesnt mean it is true. Yet if they are true most of them are 4 years old. You are not  listed with the Better Business Bureau, well you are now that I complained to them in addition to rip off report.com.


I really feel I proved what needed to be shown. Anyone that reads this and your rebuttal will not lose money with your company. Its obvious who is a theif. I just hope no one else loses money with your company.



****** If anyone is thinking about doing business with Ed and wants more then these rebuttals please respond to this with your email address, and I can forward along what was said. *********************************

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#3 UPDATE Employee

Seminar Crowds! Inc. has hundreds of satisfied, returning customers...

AUTHOR: Seminar Crowds! Inc. - (United States of America)

Reverse Mortgage Crowds is a sister company of Seminar Crowds! Inc. which has been in business since 2003 and since then we have become one of the leaders in the seminar direct-mail business.  We have had over 2,500 clients and have mailed in excess of 12,000 mail jobs.  We have mailed well in excess of hundred million mail pieces. 


Reverse Mortgage Crowds is a marketing firm dealing in direct mail marketing primarily for the Reverse Mortgage Industry. We do not sell leads or promise responses for the mailings we do.  We believe we have the best mailing lists in the industry and pride ourselves in having numerous satisfied customers.


Richard signed the order in question that states clearly that we do not guarantee any response.  While I did tell him that customers have generally obtained anywhere between a .5-1.5% response rate on the mailer, this was based upon about 10,000 pieces of mail. I warned him several times that a smaller mailing of 2000 pieces might not necessarily result in the same response rate, because the small population sampling size often skews the result.  In other words, an average is just that, and sometimes results are below or above average.


The customers mailing was sent on Dec. 1, 2009 and he mailed 2000 pieces against my advice. I left for about a 6 weeks vacation to Turkey on Dec. 7th, which is the reason for the delay in responding to him.  When I returned, we contacted Richard, reminded him that we had recommended against the small sampling and offered  him a discount on a future mailing because of the below average results he received (even though it was not our fault). 


We have had numerous successful mailings and are proud to have many happy, returning customers as witnessed by our testimonials which can be found at:


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