• Report: #222151

Complaint Review: Signtronix Sign Company

  • Submitted: Sat, November 25, 2006
  • Updated: Sat, March 02, 2013

  • Reported By:Toledo Ohio
Signtronix Sign Company
1445 W. Sepulveda Boulevard Torrance, California U.S.A.

Signtronix Sign Company - Traveling Door To Door SalesmanSigntronix Sign Company Toledo Ohio

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Signtronix X-Dealer Employee (Sales)

*Consumer Comment: Indecision

*Consumer Comment: Pressure

*UPDATE Employee: Please Be Fair

*Consumer Suggestion: ridiculous?

*Consumer Suggestion: Its called sales

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I read this story as I was doing some research on LED signs because I want one for my business. I almost fell victim to the same scam as others on this site. I got the Signtronix phone number off of a small sign I saw and called them. A salesman called me back and told me he was the regional manager, and that he would just happen to be in the area next week. He said he would stop by before noon the next Thursday.

That Thursday I got a call from my wife at 10:30am letting me know that the Signtronix salesman that ?drove all the way from Indianapolis to meet with me? was at my business ?for our scheduled appointment.?

The salesman Dave Grossman introduced himself as ?one of the owners? of the California company and was in the area for a special project. This guy also had a twangy Alabama accent. He brought in a couple of examples of signs, one LED and one cabinet style sign.

He spent about an hour giving us his sales pitch. I told him to price a sign to replace the one on my pole. He said great and started to work on a proposal right there in my business. I let him know that I had other things to do (bank, supplier, etc) and he said ?No problem? to go about my business and he would figure it out. I figured he would just leave the information with my wife.

Well, I come back 3 hours later and the guy is still camped out there ? waiting to show me his proposal. He spends another hour explaining how his sign will make me $40,000 per month and then gives me the price - $57,000!!!

Then he launches into the ?special project? - same story, some special ?showcase? deal where the company will pay for the sign if they can put their name on the sign and feature my business in a video. OK, I am greedy, so I agree to listen to another hour of sales pitch. The deal ended up being ?only? $4000 deposit, and a payment of $700 per month, but I have to decide NOW and sign the contract NOW, and pay the deposit NOW. LOL I guess this guy thought I was stupid enough to fall for the old ?time-share? TODAY ONLY bullshit line.

I tell the salesman there is no way I am going to make a decision on the spot and it is late (after closing) and he keeps talking, and talking, and talking ? no listening. I finally tell him he will need to come back another time as I am turning the key on my front door.

Friday, I am pulling into my parking lot and guess who is already parked in front of my business? Yep, the salesman from Signtronix! I want to be polite, but this guy already spent almost 8 hours in my business the day before. Long story short ? he dropped the price from $57,000 to $17,000 , got on the phone with someone to make it sound like he was getting ?authorization? for something, and then tried to get me to sign a contract. I finally got pissed off and he left, wishing me ?good luck with my business? as his parting shot. 16 years in business, and this hillbilly is wishing ME good luck ? LOL.

A few weeks later I was at a Chamber of Commerce meeting and a local restaurant owner was talking about a sign he purchased that he could not put up because of city ordinance. He got it from the same company, Signtronix. They would not help him in any way. He said the salesman was very persuasive and guaranteed a huge increase in business. After talking to other business owners, almost every one of them had been visited by a door to door salesman from that company the same week as me. I guess they travel in groups, like the Irish Travelers.

Its a good lesson for business owners ? If you have to make a purchase decision on the spot from some high pressure salesman, you should pass.

Toledo, Ohio

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/25/2006 11:13 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Signtronix-Sign-Company/Torrance-California-90509/Signtronix-Sign-Company-Traveling-Door-To-Door-SalesmanSigntronix-Sign-Company-Toledo-Oh-222151. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Signtronix X-Dealer Employee (Sales)

AUTHOR: Randy L - (United States of America)

By obtaining 3 competitor sign cost estimates for identical signs from national and local sign companies, as well as, Signtronix customers,  I too was able to verify the prospective customer was being Over Charged by Thousands of Dollars..That is the Reason Signtronix Requires their Dealer Salesperson to Complete the Sale in 1 Day with No Call Backs, and the Dealer Salesperson is Not Allowed to have Business Cards..This is Poor business marketing. It doesn't in dear TRUST from the prospect and makes the prospect suspicious. Run, Don't Walk from any salesperson who requires you close the sale for thousands of dollars in just 1 Day and without any introduction, just a Drop-In by the salesperson.

I found that the Signtronix Dealers/Salespeople were very hard workers and ran up a lot of business expenses they had to pay..The Dealers are Independent Contractor Straight Commission B2B Outside Sales Reps. Thus, they are small business owners themselves..I Quit my Signtronix Dealer Position after just Two Weeks, because of what I felt was Unethical Business Practices. FYI - Besides Over Charging for its signs, Signtronix's Leasing Company Over Charges Considerably for its Lease Interest..

Most small business would be better served with a small bank or credit union loan or even charging the purchase on a business credit card...Also FYI - I was and am a Small Business Owner too and am very aware of the great results and increased sales & income that can be  generated by a Franchise Quality Lighted Sign and LED. Signs are the most cost effective and produces the most new customers of any other advertising including word-of-mouth..
In summary, as a Value Proposition, you need to Skip Signtronix...  
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#2 Consumer Comment


AUTHOR: Kenneth - (U.S.A.)

Indecision. It is the largest, single most costly expense there is, for small business owners, for large businesses, as well as for governmental departments. It adds up to billions of dollars annually. Indecision is not a virtue. It is still a decision, with its own dire results. -- General Swartzcoff.

Yet you present it as a good thing.
It may be common but that does not make it a virtue.

After you present your indecision as a virtue, you then launch a degenerate attack, loaded with disrespect and loaded with scorn. In fact, you border on deliberate, willful slander. You may have already illegally crossed that border. You need to count your lucky stars the company has not subpoenaed your computers ISP information from this site you posted on, for a lawsuit. Maybe they already have and perhaps they still will, but if not, be very thankful.
No matter how you slice and dice it, such would be very costly to you.

Your attack reveals way too much about you, far more then you may have intended to show to everybody. It shows you have little respect even for yourself as an adult male. Notice I am not saying man.

No doubt, this attitude problem is born out of elements of your own financial distress, but it also shows your own character, or lack there of. If you're married, what would your wife say about you and your attitude? How about your children? Or should they be afraid?

Obviously, this Signtronix sales rep cared more about you then even you did. Your lack of gratitude for him and for his time is a shame and a pox upon you and upon your business. Don't try to prove to me or anybody else how well you are doing. Even if truly so, you could be doing much, much better, had you taken full advantage of Signtronix products.

LED units are always costly, no matter the source. Even if you do not know it, there are differences in quality, especially when it comes to LED signs. You get more brilliance and a far better warrantee program from Signtronix then any other company out there, period!

I have seen churches, for example, buy from other sales reps from other companies, with a 90 day limited warrantee, have their large (but cheaper in price) LED units go completely dark. (Needing to be 100% REPLACED!)

I properly warned them, but Signtronix quality is not an item that everybody gets. Not everybody has the ability to believe the truth, even when presented well.

They save a couple thousand on the price? So what? It now has to be replaced, and again at full price. How much does anybody facing such feel they have saved? If you saved $2,000.00, but need to save it twice, did you save anything? No.

Which is yet another thing. You do not believe the offer was for real? How about you try to buy from this same Signtronix sales rep today.

You will now still be able to make your purchase, but now you have preferred full price with a larger down payment. The Main Street America program is not an offer required to be made by any Signtronix sales rep, but you disrespect him for caring enough to make it available . to you? I am shocked that you say he came back the next day. He is fantastic, and you hate or mistrust people seeking your good. Bizarre!

What kind of Jerk are you so proud to be?

A lack of ethics? You bet, but that dice is what comes up when you roll it, not on some one else.


We have our regular Retail prices available to you 24/7/365. A Singtronix sign is a GREAT deal, even if or when sold at TWICE the Retail price!

A Showcase offer I never extend beyond my first visit. Doesn't make much financial sense. If someone gets an offer as good as I can make it, why would I want to come back to someone to sell them a sign that the day before, they could have bought for hundreds or thousands less?

I am really not trying to insult your intelligence, but ..

Excuse me, if you want ME to extend the price, there is ONLY one way I will do it. Yes, I will or might. But I will first ask you, if I were to extend the offer until tomorrow, with 10 being YES, I will buy, and a ONE being extremely unlikely, what number from 1 to 10 do you pick?

Anything less then a 7 and I graciously, (professionally), leave. But, if you pick a 7 to a 10, I collect $50.00 IN CASH, and with NO receipt and that is THE ONLY way I extend the price. You pay me to extend the price!

Before I call you the next day, I am NOT coming back unless you tell me you are READY to buy.

If you hesitate or say, Not at this time. I am keeping the money, and you knew that when you gave it to me. But if you say Yes, I will credit you that $50.00 and deduct it from your deposit. And you do not know I will do that until you are about to give me your deposit.
That is my ONLY exception for anybody's indecision.

I am a business person, every bit as much as you pretend to be. But I am for real, with no pretense or apology about it.

I am in sales, but you are not? How's so? If you own and run a real business, guess what? YOU ARE IN SALES TOO. We are, in this arena of salesmanship, EQUAL. If you own and try to run a business, but do not understand that you are in sales, you probably are right; you are not selling much of anything. And perhaps, you are about to close.
Only a fool of a salesman would open a business, not knowing he too is a salesman.

If you cannot afford my product, I have to assume that perhaps, you have danced your last dance. I suspect you know what I mean. If not, I am not explaining it for you or to you.

My product is vastly superior to every other alternative.

Good results are never cheap. Cheap is always trash. I do not sell or offer trash to anybody. But if you supply the wood, the spray paint, the stencils, I can whip you up a sign, for 50 to a 100 bucks. It will at least fill my tank on my way to someone whose brain is still in gear.

If that is still too much, find a 12 year old and give him or her a piece of paper and some crayons. For 50 Cents, you'll get yourself a sign.

I met a guy years ago who challenged me by telling me he spent only $20.00 for his sign. He said proudly, Bet you can't beat my price! He wasn't stupid. I said, You sure about that price? I sure am, he said.
He had a 4' by 8' panel of wood painted black, with white letters using stencils and spray paint. I went on to explain, if your business is really just a hobby, then the price of your sign should never be a concern. But if your family depends on what you do, and your mortgage company, and your utility company(s), then your sign is indeed, extremely costly, in fact, it will put you OUT of business, if you keep using it. A cheap sign is in fact, the most costly of them all, period.

Guess what? He bought my sign. And the sign he bought from me jacked his income up so high, so quickly, his new Signtronix sign paid for itself in full in less then 4 weeks, all with new business! Back then, the price for the size he needed was $7,200.00. And as soon as that sign paid for itself, the gol dang sign did it again and again and again. And as long as he is in business, THAT sign, not his 20 bucks sign, is paying not only for itself, but paying all his overheads PLUS, as well. Like I said, he was NOT stupid!

If I went around selling cheap signs that put all my customers at high risk of going business, and I lived there, I would be afraid to be seen in public! I would not want to be running into customers at the grocery store or bank. Or in church!

Nearly everything I will tell you about my product and your need of it is NOT a sales pitch of any kind. Instead, you are getting factual information that you can easily confirm at the sba.gov's own web site.

In fact, if you take a look at the two sba.gov's before and after signs, BOTH had NON-Signtronix signs BEFORE, and BOTH switched to SIGNTRONIX Signs. Look at what happened to their incomes. These are ON the Small Business Administrations' own web site, my friend. BOTH of them!
***Where* *is* *my* *sales* *pitch?***
There is no need for one, my friend!
Fools can't be convinced no matter what information if presented.
It is the fateful nature of a fool to not be able to get it.

Perhaps, my only sales pitch is in telling you that you stand an 85% chance or better of getting a significant sales increase. Just as any successful kind of large chain or franchise store. The evidence, the proofs, are simply overwhelming.

But if you have a problem with indecision, what do you want my rep to say to you as he leaves you to your own devices? You want him to insult you? A professional will be gracious, 97% of the time. Even if or when you do not deserve it.


Buy a Signtronix any day you prefer. It's your choice to buy at full price. Signtronix is still in business.

So where is all the pressure?

I am not writing this for YOUR benefit, no! I am writing this for the benefit of others who will read this because they are NOT fools.

Especially in today's economy!

No one should be out there taking chances and risks this big. The SBA says your entire business needs to be sign centric. CENTERED AROUND YOUR SIGN. YOUR ENTIRE BUSINESS!

SOMEONE in your line of business is going to remain, and remain by making the money. Will it be you? That is up to you and especially, to your sign. Do you deserve what happens to you if one, just one, of your area competitors' gets a Signtronix sign, but you do no?
I hope this is never becomes your fate.
Too much rides on the outcome, does it not?

What is true in good times, become absolutely critical to your financial well being in a stressed economy!

Well, we are now there.
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#3 Consumer Comment


AUTHOR: Giselle - (U.S.A.)

I refuse to do business with someone who pressures me and tells me I have to make an immediate decision. A good salesman won't mind coming back. A good salesman knows thats part of the job is "courting" customers. That may well mean one or more return visits.
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#4 UPDATE Employee

Please Be Fair

AUTHOR: Jake - (U.S.A.)

I think it is unfortunate that Ripoff Report makes you scroll down and then click on links to find rebuttals. This is unfair because I am sure that many people using this site may miss the rebuttal section. Having said that...

I am an independent dealer of Signtronix signs and I have noticed in many of the complaints on this site the person complaining in fact acknowledges that in fact Signtronix signs are of HIGH QUALITY, HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE, and are priced fairly. The company has been in business since 1959 (formerly known as Gulf Industries). That is almost 50 years. I just don't think you can stay in business that long by "ripping people off".

The company has participated in programs in conjunction with the Small Business Administration and the President sits on the board of the largest sign trade organization in the country.

Signtronix has sold hundreds of thousands of signs and specializes in selling to independent businesses. THIS is why you will often see thier sales people traveling to small towns (fewer chains and franchises). In addition, signs of this high quality are not usually available at affordable prices in these towns. You will also see Signtronix signs up and down the streets of virtually every big city in this country.

Our products are outstanding and we have helped thousands and thousands of small business people either grow or save their businesses. Sign manufacturing is a difficult business because we are selling a custom product. This occasionally allows for the opportunity of conflict to arise. For example, even though the sign is designed EXACTLY as the customer requested, by the time it arrives in a couple of weeks time, the customer may have changed their mind about the design, thought about a way they wished they had designed it, etc..

There are people that are businessmen and businesswomen and then there are those that are just in business. The true professional business person almost always can appreciate the value of a franchise quality sign such as ours.

I know that the VAST majority of business owners are extremely pleased by their purchase. I hope that the very few that were not will make every effort to contact the district or regional manager in their areas, or call the company directly. Please try the staff first but it that does not solve your problem, ask for the President. He is a gentleman that is concerned that every ligitimate complaint be addressed and will not stand for the Signtronix name to be anything but the very best in the industry.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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#5 Consumer Suggestion


AUTHOR: Susan - (U.S.A.)

Are you a signtronix rep? If so, you should know that the business practices of Signtronix are unethical to say the least.
The person that walked into this persons shop wasn't the business owner, I'm very familar with they way they work!

Why NOT give someone a chance to think about a sale? It's because the signs are WAY WAY WAY overpriced and if anyone goes out and looks around at local sign companies, they'll find they can save THOUSANDS of dollars! AND get better quality.

I have a signtronix sign AND a local sign, side by side. The local was a fraction of the cost and much better.

The salesman walks away with whatever your deposit is and signtronix gets the rest. that is, if the salesman isn't a fly by nighter who pockets the money and runs!
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#6 Consumer Suggestion

Its called sales

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

What you experienced is called sales. It is ridiculous for a business owner to claim he cannot make a decision. What you are saying is that you expected this poor salesman to make another trip back to your business, when he could be talking to someone that can make a decision.
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