• Report: #107636

Complaint Review: Sitesell.com - SBI - SBI-E - Sitesell

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  • Submitted: Thu, September 09, 2004
  • Updated: Thu, February 14, 2013

  • Reported By:Irvine California
Sitesell.com - SBI - SBI-E - Sitesell
8 Cote St. Charles,Hudson Heights, QC, Canada Internet U.S.A.

Sitesell.com, SBI, SBI-E, Sitesell has dishonest marketing practice, misleading advertising, and fails to honor guarantee! Rip-off! Internet

*UPDATE Employee: SiteSell and the BBB, etc.

*Consumer Comment: Sitesell No Longer a Member of the BBB?

*UPDATE Employee: Reply to: Sitesell Engages in Deceptive Practices

*Consumer Comment: Sitesell Engages in Deceptive Practices Even if it Possible to Make Money With the Thing

*Consumer Comment: SBI Does Require Work On Your Part

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DR. Ken Evoy, CEO of www.sitesell.com makes false and misleading statements. Here's what he say:

The Guarantee:
No product is perfect for everyone. And I do not want you to own Site Build It! unless it's right for you. You don't want that, either. On the other hand, neither of us want you to miss what Site Build It! delivers, due to procrastination. That's why I encourage you to take full advantage of the Guarantee as your "free trial." In other words, purchase SBI! and then decide... Try it -- just follow the Action Guide.

Register your domain. Build your site. Watch traffic build from Google, Yahoo!, etc.. Enjoy your growing business. But if you decide (at any time) it's not for you, simply tell us and let us know why SBI! failed to meet your needs (so we can keep improving). Of course, it does NOT matter WHY -- if you think it's not right for you, it's not. We'll refund you right away. No strings. Better, actually. Keep the domain name that you register (at our expense since it's included in the price), as my thank you for giving us the opportunity to do business with you. No ifs, ands or buts. This is an absolute guarantee. No time limits. Ask for your money back anytime. SiteSell.com will refund you 100% within the first 30 days of purchase, and on a pro-rata basis after that, for whatever part of the year remains.

How can we make a Guarantee like this?... Because Site Build It! OVERdelivers, no matter how high your expectations.If you have any doubts about whether we'd actually refund you, click here to see why this guarantee has teeth. Click here to return to the Guarantee.

This Guarantee Has Teeth I will always honor this guarantee. Our internal company motto is "no unhappy customers." Regardless of that, SiteSell.com has grown to the point where it would be foolhardy not to honor our Guarantee. We have sold tens of thousands of copies of our SiteSell publications. Our refund request rate is literally under one-tenth of one percent. But we always immediately obey these requests.

Now for the teeth...

We are members in good standing of the Montreal chapter of the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU ("BBB"), an internationally respected, non-profit consumer protection organization. Now let's say I refused someone (I wouldn't, but let's "just say"). That person would report us to the BBB.

Check on our track record by calling them at 514-286-9281. Ask them about our company (SiteSell.com -- quote them company number 7048) -- you'll see that our record is spotless. Close this Window and Try SBI! Today Risk-Free
________________

NOW people of the world, would you think from reading this advertisement and guarantee that he meant anything other than an uncontional guarantee? Well he did. Craftily hidden in the text was within 30 days, go back and see if you can find it.

I have reported him to the BBB and I am hoping someone will see this like the good folks on (URL removed by ripoffreport.com) and run a story on this dishonest merchant. Here are the letters I wrote trying to get my money back:

Dear Natasha,

I sent an email to Ken Evoy on the 29th August, I have not heard back from Mr. Evoy. Therefore, I am going to the next step.

In my letter, I alleged that Ken Evoy used misleading, deceptive, and false advertising in order to make me buy his product. Under the Canadian Government Competition Bureau guidelines, he has indeed broken the law. Here is what the Government has to say. Taken from: (URL removed by ripoffreport.com)

Misleading Representations and Deceptive Marketing Practices. What Is the Competition Bureau? The Competition Bureau is an independent law enforcement agency responsible for the administration and enforcement of the Competition Act. What Is the Competition Act? The Competition Act is a federal law governing most business conduct in Canada. It contains both criminal and civil provisions aimed at preventing anti-competitive practices in the marketplace Unfair or Deceptive Business Practices
Generally, and unfair of deceptive business practice can be thought of as a representation that has the tendency or effect of misleading the average person.

Misleading Representations and Deceptive Marketing Practices Provisions of the Competition Act. The Competition Act contains provisions addressing false or misleading representations and deceptive marketing practices in promoting the supply or use of a product or any business interest. All representations, in any form whatever, that are false or misleading in a material respect are subject to the Act. If a representation could influence a consumer to buy or use the product or service advertised, it is material. To determine whether a representation is false or misleading, the courts consider the "general impression" it conveys, as well as its literal meaning.

What Are the Possible Penalties? The Act provides two adjudicative regimes to address misleading representations and deceptive marketing practices. Under the criminal regime, certain practices are brought before the criminal courts, requiring proof of each element of the offence beyond a reasonable doubt. On summary conviction, the person is liable to a fine of up to $200 000 and/or imprisonment for up to one year. If convicted on indictment, the person is liable to a fine at the discretion of the court and/or imprisonment for up to five years.

Under the civil regime, certain practices may be brought before the Competition Tribunal, the Federal Court or the superior court of a province and require that each element of the conduct be proven on a balance of probabilities. The court may order a person to cease the activity, publish a notice and/or pay an administrative monetary penalty. On first occurrence, individuals are liable to penalties of up to $50 000 and corporations are liable to penalties of up to $100 000. These amounts may double for second and subsequent occurrences. Advertising Dos and Don'ts The following "Do's and Don'ts" will help businesses comply with the Competition Act.

Do's:

Do avoid fine print disclaimers. They often fail to change the general impression conveyed by an advertisement. If you do use them, make sure the overall impression created by the ad and the disclaimer is not misleading.

Do fully and clearly disclose all material information in the advertisement.

Do avoid using terms or phrases in an advertisement that are not meaningful and clear to the ordinary person.

Do charge the lowest of two or more prices appearing on a product.

Do ensure that you have reasonable quantities of a product advertised at a bargain price.

Do, when conducting a contest, disclose all material details required by the Act before potential participants are committed to it.

Do ensure that your sales force is familiar with these "Dos and Don'ts." Advertisers may be held responsible for representations made by employees.

Don'ts:

Don't confuse "regular price" or "ordinary price " with "manufacturer's suggested list price" or a like term. They are often not the same.

Don't use "regular price" in an advertisement unless the product has been offered in good faith for sale at that price for a substantial period of time, or a substantial volume of the product has been sold at that price within a reasonable period of time.

Don't use the words "sale" or "special" in relation to the price of a product unless a significant price reduction has occurred.

Don't run a "sale" for a long period or repeat it every week.

Don't increase the price of a product or service to cover the cost of a free product or service.

Don't use illustrations that are different from the product being sold.

Don't make a performance claim unless you can prove it, even if you think it is accurate. Testimonials usually do not amount to adequate proof.

Don't sell a product above your advertised price.

Don't unduly delay the distribution of prizes when conducting a contest.

Don't forget that no one actually needs to be misled for a court to find that an advertisement is misleading.
The application of the general impression test is particularly important where:

The representation is partially true and partially false, or the representation is capable of two meanings, one of which is false;

The representation is literally true but is, in fact, misleading since it fails to reveal certain essential information (see Non-disclosure of Material Information, chapter 3);

The representation is literally or technically true but creates a false impression, for example where the advertised results of a test of a product may not be significant to its use or efficacy but the representation makes it appear otherwise (see Inappropriate Claims, chapter 3);

The representation is literally true insofar as the oral or written statements are concerned but the visual part of the representation may create a false impression, for example where it depicts a model which is different from the advertised product (see Use of Illustrations, chapter 3).

Natasha, I have been patient, I have laid out what I want and why (your product did not deliver, false promises, misleading advertising, bait and switch) and just to clarify one other point. The time frame that Ken Evoy cleverly hid from the average person was also deceptive, why? Because no one could read his 600 page document, (He stressed it would take 10 days thats 80 hours to read it) Then set up the web site, test it, add Google ad sense, automated emails, auto responders, the list can go on and on but the point is No average person could do everything within 30 days. Therefore, his guarantee was not feasible, nor would it qualify under the Canadian Consumer Act.

I am now prepared to contact the Canadian Competition Bureau, the BBB, and go to a major online forum to publish all of our correspondence in order to get my full monies paid back.

Below is the last letter I sent to Ken Evoy and Janice acknowledged receipt of it. However, Ken has not responded so as a last resort, I am giving your company 24 hours for the time stamped delivery of this letter to comply with a full refund, or I will definitely go to the next step and seek compensation as provided under the act.

Regards,

Ken Evoy
CEO
Site Sell

Sunday, August 29, 2004

Dear Ken Evoy,

RE: Natasha Vincent at Support said NOKWhat do you say Mr. Evoy

Re: Support Question, Reference#JI7DB6

My order # 1021222213103436

My recorded email address is:
I have been corresponding with Natasha Vincent since July 28th 2004 in regards to a full refund. Her final word is that I am not entitled to one.

Now, I am no Attorney but the conditions of your published guarantee on several web pages could be construed as misleading, misrepresentation, false inducement to buy, and bait and switch tactics. Let me explain.

You had so much emphasis on ANY TIME, NO STRINGS ATTACHED, WELL REFUND YOU RIGHT AWAY, NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE GUARANTEE, NO TIME LIMITS. No Judge could convincingly conclude that these words go together with Ask for your money back any time. SiteSell.com will refund you 100% within the first 30 days of purchase.

Your sales letter with all the preceding promises was designed to leave such an impression on a reasonable persons mind that it was an iron clad, fully refundable guarantee and because of such statements made, there was a high probability of making the mistake of actually believing no another condition was true.

Because of the way you phrased it, formatted it, and highlighted and bolded key words, and not others, your carefully crafted, cunning, and deceptive phrasing misled me. Intentionally or not.

Your sales letter would not have or could not have been misleading or deceptive if you had phrased it in a straight and truthful manner as follows: At any time within the next 30 days., No ifs ands or buts. This is an absolute guarantee within the next 30 days. No time limits, within the next 30 days. Under these conditions, you could not be accused of misleading or deceptive advertising. However, you did not do this.

Secondly, what you actually did in several of your sales letters was induce me to buy your product with forward looking statements. Here is an announcement your company made on Sept 04 2002, pasted from:

SiteSell.com Announces Major Enhancements to SBI!

Dr. Evoy closed by saying, "These enhancements are the continuation in our quest to make SBI! the ultimate e-commerce value bundle, the only system of tools that enables even the most non-Net-savvy small business able to succeed on the Net. And wait until you see what's coming in the fall... the ability to sell e-goods, any electronic product, exactly the way we do here at SiteSell, including your very own affiliate program."

Ken, this is what I wanted; this is what I thought I was buying. This was the most compelling part of your inducement to buy; you promised to release in the fall of 2002 a site that bundled all the tools to sell e-goods EXACTLY the way you do, including our own affiliate program. I remember this well in the emails I was receiving from you at the time. A 2-tier affiliate program, a cash collection machine, full service web site, auto responders, e-zine, unlike any other product on the internet today, you were going to give me exactly what you were using then. Exactly what I wanted and thought I was buying.

You further induced me later in the December; with, you wont suffer any price penalty when we get it online in early 2003, well give you 3 months free service and to make it really worth your while, well give you a 2 for 1 SiteSell package, right now, if you buy.

The bases I bought your product under were to have the same functionality that you had and were using at SiteSell right then before Sept 2002. I had no intention of holding onto your product for 20 months waiting for you to deliver. All I wanted was the features you promised in your forward-looking statements in early 2002.

I was effectively, unable to use them, and test them, within your carefully hidden 30-day guarantee, neither then nor even today. This means that your guarantee has no validity what-so-ever for the promises you made. Your guarantee is null and void because you promised it would have the functions I wanted but it didnt and still doesnt. I never registered a domain name because your features where never delivered, hence what I bought it for, it was incapable of doing.

Thirdly, I accuse you of a tactical bait and switch, intentionally or not, you redefined your product, and the terms of what I actually bought it for. You delayed by saying you were coming out with SBI-E, then E-Commerce, and the list goes on, and on, with new enhancements, but never the enhancement I bought your product for. I repeat: The same functionality that you were using in 2002. That was the bait, the switch is the other irrelevant products that I dont want or need, but you offered them as a replacement of what you promised, (full functionality the same as you use at Site Sell).

Mr. Evoy, the effect is the same, no matter what your intentions were or are. The fact is that I have suffered, you have misled me whether intentionally, or not, you have not delivered despite your promises of always OVER DELIVERING.

I have been fair; I have waited over 20 months for you to deliver. But now I have had enough, I am fed upXwhos patience is infinite? You, your product and your staff have used up all of my patience.

I want all of my money back. Plus, I believe I am also entitled to as a gesture of good will on your part interest on my money for the last 20 months. Since I have lost the use of my funds, you've effectively disabled my ability to make use of those funds because you didnt manage to deliver, you kept me hanging on with your repeated claims of imminent release and always over delivering on promises. It is voluntary on the interest part, thats up to you to be honorable and gracious. But the real question, Ken Evoy is K

Do you intend to give me my money back or not?

If I dont hear from you in Seven days from today, I shall reasonably conclude that you intend to frustrate me further and in such an event, I shall take such steps as necessary to exercise my proper rights.

Regards,


PS. Ken here are some sites as promises that I have captured on the web to validate my points.
1. Pasted from (URL removed by ripoffreport.com)

PRICE

SBI! is competitively priced at $495 (USD) per annual subscription: less than 1/10th of the cost of comparable products. At this affordable price, customers receive the entire SBI! system with all the services, including a domain name, site-hosting, an e-zine subscription manager, broadcasting of up to 5,000 e-mails/month, search engine submission, and much more! Purchasing these same services individually can cost thousands of dollars. With SBI!, you get a complete solution for one low annual fee.

SiteSell is able to keep prices low becase it builds and houses its own proprietary tools. There's no expensive third party software to maintain, so SBI! can easily be offered at a much lower price point. And that's exactly in line with the needs of small businesses. Click here for a detailed price comparison.

CUSTOMER EDUCATION

SBI! is as much a process as it is a product. The "Action Guide" and online-help that are included with the system provide the user with comprehensive, step-by-step support at every stage. These educational tools are designed to instill solid, preparatory practices for conducting online business, even before the user begins to build their site.

100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE

SiteSell has chosen to go against the trend of offering customers a crippled or limited trial version of software. Instead, we offer the entire SBI! system with this guarantee: "Purchase SBI! today. Use it. Even register your domain name (it's included in the price). If at any point in time SBI! does not exceed your expectations, we will refund you immediately and you can keep the domain name that you registered as our thanks for a chance at your business. No forms to fill out, no questions asked."

2. Pasted from


3. Finally, pasted from

Dr. Ken Evoy of Site Sell
Dr. Ken Evoy, Internet Marketing Expert
Dr. Ken Evoy is a Canadian physician turned entrepreneur. He is a well-respected Internet Marketer throughout the world and has written numerous highly-acclaimed ebooks and is the creator of Site Build It, a revolutionary site builder designed to make small business owners find success on the net.

I'm a huge fan of Ken's and have been since my first days of Internet Marketing. I was fortunate enough to be turned on to his famous ebook. This ebook made the difference between toiling endlessly trying to find success on the net and attaining it almost instantly. Of course, it's still been hard work, but MYSS and all the Site Sell tools provide you with what you need to get there.

Let me be the millionth person to say, Dr. Ken Evoy does not make or sell crap. All his products have an unconditional no-questions-asked guarantee. And he stands by this guarantee. How do I know? Because being 7 months pregnant with my second child in less than two years, I thought I should purchase Site Build It to build yet another website.

After some thought and realistic planning, I realized that it just wasn't possible to start a new project with a baby on the way (DUH!). I contacted the good folks at Site Sell and said I needed my money back. It was promptly refunded.


Anca
Irvine, California
U.S.A.

sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/09/2004 11:09 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Sitesellcom-SBI-SBI-E-Sitesell/internet/Sitesellcom-SBI-SBI-E-Sitesell-has-dishonest-marketing-practice-misleading-advertisin-107636. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 UPDATE Employee

SiteSell and the BBB, etc.

AUTHOR: DeniseTaylor - (United States of America)

Hello jlc33

In regards to your question about the BBB:

* We've been members of BBB since 1997
* In August 2011, BBB in Quebec was closed
* It was subsequently replaced by QCCO, which fulfills the exact same role
* We're members of QCCO and have the same spotless record

http://www.occq-qcco.com/main.cfm?p=421&l=en&page=1&MembreID=580&critere=sitesell

--

In regards to me posting cut-and-paste rebuttals all over the Internet, please refer to my signature. It is my job to address public concerns, but my responses are far from cut-and-paste. I speak for myself and compose each response.

--

Please post your true name so I can research your matter and respond to specific issues. Otherwise, please go to Support so we can help you.

Sincerely,

Denise Taylor
SiteSell Answers
http://answers.sitesell.com
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#2 Consumer Comment

Sitesell No Longer a Member of the BBB?

AUTHOR: jlc33 - (USA)

Dear Denise:

I can't understand your response as it's convoluted but the message's less-than-pleasant tone and your inability to relate to or understand the clear problems at hand are about on par with what I came to expect from Sitesell after my two tries, several years apart, with the company's product.

In particular, I think you're frustrated that the cut-and-paste rebuttals Sitesell gives you to post all over the internet, that always allege that the customer is wrong and Sitesell is the greatest invention since sliced ham, didn't apply to what I posted about Sitesell's integrity on a macro level.

Your other beef appears to be that I didn't give you details that would enable Sitesell to resolve any specific problems I had. 

I thought my comments and the general purpose of this site made clear that I wasn't seeking redress, just warning others about what I and thousands of other people seem to believe are Sitesell's less-than-honest advertising tactics and horrible customer service skills. 

However, I do have a specific question. Sitesell appears to be listed as a non-accredited member of the BBB as of 02/11/2013. 

You've boasted many times that Sitesell has an A+ BBB rating on many websites. Is Sitesell no longer a member in good standing of the Better Business Bureau?

If so, what caused it to lose its good rating and accreditation? 
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#3 UPDATE Employee

Reply to: Sitesell Engages in Deceptive Practices

AUTHOR: DeniseTaylor - (United States of America)

Hi jlc33:

Denise Taylor, SiteSell Answers here.

I think it's  interesting how you say you were a customer years ago and are now posting this complaint. The points you have made are simply not true and here is why:  

SiteSell is continuously evolving and updating their service,  but instead of charging for updates or upselling to "make it work," everything is included in one package. In actuality SiteSell's price has decreased since it's beginnings.

Site Build It! does work just like it states it does because the training materials teach a specific process. The tools are designed to create the result. The SBI! forums have been called some of the best in the world. If the training materials are learned and the process is followed, it works.

There is no push-button way to success--anywhere. You must use brain and motivation. Yet no other ebusiness building product includes the expansive tools, process and training that Site Build It! does. It attempts to eliminate the pitfalls to success, doing everything it can to help you succeed, but it cannot do the job for you. Your business is your business. Period.

If you choose a highly competitive area, it will take longer and as with anything, it is possible to make mistakes along the way. But to fail out of the gate requires major mistakes borne out of skipping the training or ignoring the advices. These types of mistakes are warned against in many placess. Forum discussions address pitfalls, too, and people are there to help. And despite mistakes, people still succeed. It happens all the time. They simply persist and overcome it.


What you are saying about Alexa ranking is untrue. Alexa measures what Alexa measures. It's a yardstick and a uniform way to measure things across the Net. SiteSell never implies Alexa has anything to do with income. Still, your argument does not nullify the fact that more SBI sites end up in the top 1% of Alexa than any other hosting/web business building program in the world.

That is not a coincidence.

You use generalities about SiteSell's affiliate program, but don't mention the specific information to which you are referring. So I can't clear you up on it. However, it's ludicrous to think that a company that has been online and growing for over a decade would do something illegal. That's a malicious and untrue allegation.

No, SiteSell doesn't imply that anyone can create and maintain a profitable website for $299. It states that you must have drive to do it. It's called BAM! (Short for brain and motivation.) SBI! provides the support, training and tools. For those who wish to succeed, the support system is there and motivation is nurtured. It's up to the person to take advantage of the support and persist. And all business success requires persistence. The only "success" that doesn't require work is gambling.

SiteSell does not imply that it has search engine features guaranteed to work when search engine strategies have to change every time Google changes it's algorithm.

It doesn't *imply* anything. SiteSell *actively and continually works* to update its technology, to sift through the myriad issues that emerge on the web and to determine the key issues that site owners must pay attention to as the web evolves. Then it publishes this key information, holds forum discussions about them and releases new tools to help you stay ahead of important changes. It does all this so you can focus.

Example: Face It! now helps your visitors spread your site virally across the Net with only a few steps for setup. Do you know how many thousands of hours that will save SBIers? Face It! harnesses the business-building potential of Facebook, boiling it down to very manageable actions by SBI site owners.

Besides that new release, it frequently creates new tools to navigate the changes and does so without upselling or charging for upgrades. It works very hard to let business owners run their businesses. However, the underlying process and basic tools work so well, that overall SBI sites expanded by 8% while Panda put many, many sites out of business.

Denise Taylor
SiteSell Answers
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#4 Consumer Comment

Sitesell Engages in Deceptive Practices Even if it Possible to Make Money With the Thing

AUTHOR: jlc33 - (USA)

I was a Sitesell customer years ago. The service was terrible and the product less-than-impressive, but I did learn a lot about affiliate marketing from Ken Evoy's guide. 

Most Sitesell debates revolve around whether the program/product works or not. My take on that issue is that the only "turn-key" money-making model I've ever found effective was franchising through a big corporation like All State insurance or Burger King.

Apart from that business modality, there's no way one company can give you everything you need to succeed in any business, in my opinion. 

Turn-key marketing ventures, as Sitesell purports to be, either don't work or they require lots of extra fees to make them work. For instance, many Sitesell customers complain about needing to hire web designers and writers in order to create functional sites after being told a $299 investment would take them to the moon.


Sitesell does also egregiously mislead customers in the following three ways, I believe.

1) It pretends that an Alexa ranking bears any resemblance to a site's money-making ability.
2) It's affiliate program terms are deliberately misleading to the point that the company is making false and misleading statements that could be addressed through a civil suit or criminal complaint in the U.S., at least.
3) It implies that anyone can create and maintain a profitable website for $299 when in actuality people need tech skills, writing skills, etc. to succeed in affiliate marketing.
4) It implies it has some dated search engine features guaranteed to work when search engine strategies have to change every time Google changes its algorithms.

One good thing is that Sitesell used to have a 30-day guarantee which was insufficient time to evaluate the product. Now they have a 90-day money-back guarantee which makes the risk of trying them out negligible. 
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#5 Consumer Comment

SBI Does Require Work On Your Part

AUTHOR: Nicholas - (U.S.A.)

I understand that this thread is about three years old, howeve, I do have a few questions.

1.) Did you make any attempt at using the system? I don't know if this existed three years ago, but currently, you don't have to read a single page of the action guide. Each day of the 10-day process is an online video (or you can also download the videos) that takes you through everything.

2.) I have been watching the company for about three years before I singed up with them (05/05/07). To my knowledge, there has always been the 30-day guarantee in place. It was never hidden.

All you seem to have done was paste what the website states. You then complain about not getting your money back and that you were not happy with the SBI system. Why where you not happy? I am curious.

I will admit this, it takes a lot of work. Why? Because the main part of the SBI system is research. You have to find your niche and the keywords you should use for your niche.

There are many that just think that they can sign up for this package and with no effort their website will magically make money. Ken states that this is NOT a "get rich quick" scheme.

I am still in the learning process (have not registered the domain yet), however, I will say that the tools are very valuable. I am speaking from the standpoint of being very tech savy and would recommend this system for those new to the Internet or the technically inclined.

I am willing to bet that the person that posted this say dollar signs. They started to read the Action Guide and realized that for this to work it was going to reqire a lot of hard work and research. The reason is that you are building a "business", not some fly-by-night "get rich quick" website.
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