• Report: #533496

Complaint Review: South University Online

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  • Submitted: Fri, December 04, 2009
  • Updated: Thu, February 21, 2013

  • Reported By: Tom — Arizona United States of America
South University Online
phoenix arizona Internet United States of America

South University Online - EDMC Higher Education South University is run by a company that defrauds students with fraudulent and illegal sales tactics to get you to go to their school Internet

*Consumer Comment: Triple Negative

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Regardign your rebuttal

*General Comment: SUO Graduate, here

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: EDMC who owns South University are just White Collar Criminals

*General Comment: Sorry, I don't agree at all

*General Comment: EDMC hunter!

*Author of original report: Response

*UPDATE Employee: The truth about EDMC

*General Comment: The Audacity of Christopher Maguire

*UPDATE Employee: He is sad...

*Consumer Comment: Angry Student

*UPDATE Employee: Matrix

*UPDATE Employee: Just to note

*Author of original report: Response

*UPDATE Employee: EDMC is not breaking the law

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South University is a part of a larger corporation known as EDMC online higher education

EDMC has several "brands" that they run as online universities the names of which are the Art Institute Online, Argosy University and South University.  They also control a few others such as Brown Mackie, etc. 

They have two locations, one in Pittsburgh and one in Phoenix.  At both locations they have large buildings packed with what are conveniently named Assistant Directors of Admission. These titles were created to make them sound important but what they really are is salesman.  Salesman paid a commission to get people to go to school with their online university.  They break several laws every working day of their lives and they do so because they would like to keep their jobs first of all, but they want a huge raise and a promotion too.  Breaking Title IV laws by paying a commission isn't all where the illegality goes with this school.  One of the heads of the online department Sam Yaghoubi hides in Phoenix with his illegal hacking software that tells him when potential students read emails from the schools and then directs Assistants to contact them because he knows they are at the computer and looking at his email.  They also lie to potential students on the phone about important matters such as their admissions process and financial aid.

All this is done to make you apply and then log into class and complete the first few assignments.  Once you are that far into the process they are done with you.  Once you've logged in and completed 2 assignments they now have at least one class worth of money out of you.  Sure, there is an add/drop period like any other school, the only difference is that they don't answer the phone or return calls until that period passes so you "count" for their commissions based Matrix pay scale. 

I see a lot of complaints on this site about the particular school and about their teaching and things of that nature.  The reason all of those things are lacking is because this company isn't in the business of education, they are in the business of SALES.  They sell people a product that barely lives up to a 10th of it's cost or lure.  That is why their former president took off before the crap hit the fan with this company coming down like a house of cards.  Their back-up plan was to hurry up and switch to a publicly traded company to polish their imagine but they are still up to the same old illegal processes.  I urge anyone to make sure that you open your mouth about this company and any of it's schools at whatever venue that you possibly can.  This company is a giant bleeding your hard earned money and federal financial aid.  They might be a giant but remember the bigger they are the harder they fall.  Eventually someone is going to do something about it. 

But hey, don't take my word for it if you don't want to.  They are a publicly traded company now.  Buy 1 share of stock and go there and see for yourself.  They have to let you in; they have to answer your questions.  They have to show you their matrix and how they illegally pay their employees a commission based on the number of students they enroll every six months.  Ask to sit in and see what their assistant directors of admission actually do that effects the rise and fall of your stock.  Actually, ask them why one Assistant Director makes 70 grand, and another Assistant Director with the same position and title is making only 32 grand.  That's a pretty big difference for two people doing the same job wouldn't you say?  That just usually means that one is better at lying than the other and talks more people into going to school.  Sounds a lot like one salesman is better at selling washers than the other right?  They can't say it's because one has worked there for a long time and the other person is new.  The school is only 5 years old, and if ANYONE can get a job that's not commission based and achieve a 120% pay raise in 5 years I'd love to see it.  There isn't anyone that's been working there for 5 years anyway.  The place is a revolving door, need to get fresh blood in constantly to keep the selling numbers up. 

If you've been a victim of this company I suggest that you let any higher learning authority know as soon as possible and if you know several people like you try to get together and organize contacting people that can help you.  The higher learning commission and the department of education is a good start. 

Companies like this make me sick to see how they are blatantly taking advantage of people and breaking the law when all these individuals want is to better their lives.  I can't wait until an employee from EDMC tries to rebut my posting and accuses me of being a fired employee or something like that.  I'll save you the trouble.  NOPE I never worked there I just have a lot of connections, and if you are going to rebut anyway, start with explaining how you don't lie on the phone and how the commission matrix isn't illegal.  That would be a great start.  Bet you can't do it. 

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/04/2009 02:22 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/South-University-Online/internet/South-University-Online-EDMC-Higher-Education-South-University-is-run-by-a-company-that-533496. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

Triple Negative

AUTHOR: JLG - ()

"...so you are NOT telling me NOTHING that I do NOT know." This is the best indicator of the quality of a South University education.

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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Regardign your rebuttal

AUTHOR: Marlabetz - (United States of America)

Thank you for your rebuttal. I also have a Master's degree from South, so you are not telling me nothing that I do not know. Before posting check your facts. Unless you know who is truly running this company do not post. If you do your research you will find that most of the top executives running the company including one board member used to work for University of Phoenix. If you use some of your Master's degree research skills you will find that the same issues that University of Phoenix had while these men worked for them are the same ones EDMC is having now. This is why the U.S. Government won the lawsuit against UOP and they had to pay over $250 million dollars. I do agree with you in the fact that South and Argosy do have good professors. I am not accusing the professors of anything just the head hunchos of the company for creating an hostile environment which is is not conducive to a good company. My main concern is always with the student since I myself have been one. They are the ones that in many cases get stuck paying a debt they cannot afford and cannot find employment regardless of statistics provided by the company which are inflated. That too is verifiable if you care to do your research.
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#3 General Comment

SUO Graduate, here

AUTHOR: Beth RN - (United States of America)

I am a graduate of SUO's Master's degree in Nursing, 12/2009. I can tell you without any equivocation....South University is real. All of my professors were PhD's, either in Nursing or Education.
All except one were, and still are phenomenal educators. I absolutely loved the education I received.

I worked really hard for 18 months, writing 2-3 papers/week. I was also required to complete 180 hrs of student teaching (Which happens to be nearly twice the 92 hrs required by our local "traditional" University).
My MSN is recognized by both the state and accrediting institutions for graduate programs in our area of the country.

My experience with Sam Yaghoubi was very different from yours, apparently. I challenged a number of the required courses because I wanted the credits I had previously earned at the above local University. Granted, it took some convincing, perseverance, and lots of documentation, but in the end was worth the effort. Sam helped me get credit for 3 courses, saving me months of repeated work and $1400.00 per course.
SUO may be known for a hard sell. I experienced it too. But, all I did was call the school, speak with my advisor and request that they stop hounding me by phone and email. That simple. They did.

Yes, SUO is a for-profit program. I knew that going in. However, the cost was very much in line with any one of the 3 programs I could have choosen to attend locally.
As a matter of fact I was working the 3 other RN's at the time in an educational setting (still am) that attended one of our local graduate schools at the same time. Being women, we compared notes. Guess what? SUO's program offered more, with less hassles, and better role models than they had.

Oh, and BTW?
Two of my former classmates from SUO and about to complete the PhD in Nursing Education at Argosy, with the encouragement and support of  a few of our former professors.
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#4 UPDATE EX-employee responds

EDMC who owns South University are just White Collar Criminals

AUTHOR: Marlabetz - (United States of America)

If someone that works or worked for this company states that they or the company are not doing nothing wrong they are in denial. I am an ex employee and also a student of South University. I know first hand the tactics that this company uses to enroll students and meet its goals. Some of the tactics are scare tactics directed at the students and employees. If employees do not convince students to enroll and do not a certain number of student in their books and miss two school starts they are fired. This drives Admissions Representatives to implement any kind of tactic possible to recruit students so they can meet their goals and do not get fired. So when current and past employees say that they are not doing nothing wrong, really????????? If you have a conscience you know you are doing something inmmoral and illegal.
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#5 General Comment

Sorry, I don't agree at all

AUTHOR: Beth RN - (United States of America)

I have to admit I was horrified when I came across South University and your comments on this site. I am a recent graduate of South University Online (SUO). I completed their Master's in Nursing in Sept. of 09. I will admit that when I first inquired about their program, I was bombarded with e-mail inquires on an almost daily basis. Definitely. However, all I did was respond to the e-mails (once), and then simply called the school (once), requesting that they back off a bit and let me decide on my own whether or not to pursue this online option. Guess what? It worked. That simple.I had no difficulty with the admissions process, and even challenged 3 of their courses for which I was given credit for 2. Yes, it took some effort on my part. I had to provide transcripts and course descriptions, but I was sucessful. I worked with Sam Yaghoubi via email and one call. No problems. I was admitted and started the program within days of my finalizing the paperwork. I have no comments to make regarding financial aid, personally. I didn't need it and paid for each class as I took it. I am well aware that this is always a big issue with students returning to school. I teach now in a Community College Nursing program, and the horror stories and difficulties regarding obtaining financial aid are always a hot topic. But I don't think SUO is any different than anywhere else. I was very satisfied with the education that I received. The courses were comparable right down the line, with the ones in the MSN program being offered right here in at the local University. I compared notes with several of the nurses that I work with at the CC Nursing school where we are all employed, and found that quite often, I was learning more than they were. My education couses themselves were much more in depth. In fact, several of my friends were using my notes!I was in constant contact with my professors, my advisor was always available, and any issues I had were resolved within days.I loved this school, and am still in contact with the friends and classmates I worked with, to this day.

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#6 General Comment

EDMC hunter!

AUTHOR: The hunter - (USA)


Anyone that feels that they have received an illegitimate education from A.I.O. or any of the Art Institutes please join us and many other AI Alumni, students and family to our website double u double u double u dot sue AI now dot com.

We are currently in the process of organizing a class action lawsuit against the Art Institutes.  We have a petition we are asking students and their families to sign, it's about AI, E.D.M.C., and their illegal and unethical business practices.  We have signatures going into the hundreds already!! Please show your support!

Our website double u double u double u dot sue AI now dot com also contains useful information as well as a forum where students can express their concerns about the school.

Help us sue the Art Institutes and E.D.M.C. once and for all!
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#7 Author of original report

Response

AUTHOR: Tom - (United States of America)

Instead of arguing with anyone that tried to rebut my complaint I recently discovered that I can now let THE LAW back up my allegations. Apparently I'm not the only one that knows about EDMC and it's numerous questionable activities. Actually, regardless of the information being released or not I wouldn't even bother responding to chris9317's book that he wrote trying to tear apart my complaint, I only read a few paragraphs of it anyway. It was just a waste of time. Well, you can read this then tell us all again how EDMC is legit. If I were you and if you do still work at EDMC I'd start looking for a new job because it looks like EDMC is going to be out of business soon. Thanks to all who supported my complaint and shame on any of you that rebutted against it and insulted me.

http://californiawatch.org/watchblog/whistleblower-lawsuit-against-profit-education-company-unsealed

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_679942.html
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#8 UPDATE Employee

The truth about EDMC

AUTHOR: Employee - (United States of America)



I just have to say, that article is right on every level. However, I would like to add that technically they are not breaking any laws. They have this thing called "compliance" which these so called Assistant Director of Admissions are taught to tiptoe around. They are actually trained to word things a certain way to imply what they are not allowed to say.

Not to mention this companies target advertising. They target their online advertising to people of low incomes who don't have higher education. They target these people for a couple reasons.

(1) So there uneducated sales people will be smarter than the potential students they are talking to.

(2) Because these people are in such need of money, they don't care how much they pay for tuition as long as they're getting some cash back.    

They actually sell people to go to school and tell them they will get "cash back" and can use it for bills. Again, they don't say how much they are getting back, they dont mention that one class costs $1400, they just imply they will get money back. The messed up thing is, the people they are talking to are not employed, chances are they are over their credit limits, had their cars repossessed and they just dont care about taking out student loans because they have no intention of ever paying them back.

This whole system is run the same way the mortgage industry was and soon enough, the country will be further in dept in student loans.

Here is a breakdown of the cost difference of South University compared to a local community college.

South University: $361 per credit hour
Community College: $71 per credit hour

Do the math. This school is ripping people off and putting the country further in debt.

Not to mention South University tells students they are a "healthcare" college. They sell the Associates Degree in Allied Health Science to students who want to go into nursing, however the messed up thing is YOU CANT DO SCIENCE CLASSES ONLINE!!! I have talked to nursing schools and most of them wont take science classes done online. Mean while, this school is selling these programs and students are never going to reach their educational goals because by the time they realize they cant get into a nursing program, they will be so far in debt with student loans they cant continue. This school is a scam and needs to be stopped.

Also, employees there come and go. People are constantly being fired for "compliance issues" but, the truth is, if you rub management the wrong way, asks questions about the way things are done, they will can you.







 
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#9 General Comment

The Audacity of Christopher Maguire

AUTHOR: curbsideprophet - (United States of America)

Christopher Maguire (AKA Chris9317), please allow me to retort:

I read your posting about WGU(located at: http://www.ripoffreport.com/Colleges-and-Universities/Western-Governor-s-U/western-governor-s-university-zcf28.htm

I am astounded by your antagonistic post regarding EDMC.  Lets look at some facts:

* EDMC is a proprietary for-profit school and publicly traded on Wall Street (as are CECO, APOL, BPI and COCO).

* WGU is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporation funded primarily by donations.

* WGU has the distinction of being the only university to receive regional accreditation from four regional accrediting commissions.  Thus, is WGU regionally accredited times four.

Mr. Maguire, in your previous post you stated: "a school that has only been nationally accr for a few years. Yes,

nationally accr, similiar to those of career colleges and trade schools. you want to repair air conditioners, you go to a nat accr school because its cheaper and they don't make you do the foundation courses, like algebra or english."

As a well educated salesman selling nursing programs for EDMC, you should conduct a bit of research for making such false and defamatory remarks about the only regionally accredited non-profit online school. 

In your previous post, you also state: "So what they do is put you on a "matrix" that says based on the number of students that started classes and how well/poorly you did your job
, here is your new salary." 

I need not comment on your contradictions as they are quite obvious.

In the aforementioned post, you also state: "They are nothing but high pressured sales where admission reps are nothing more than a bunch of people in a call center hoping to talk you into why their crappy school is better than another crappy school."

Are you honestly asserting that you have a better work environment than Admissions reps at WGU?

In this post you said: "Second, what you forgot to mention
was there are hundreds and hundreds of programs offered online for AI, SU, and
AU."

Hundreds and hundreds ... really?

Another statement by Chris Maguire: "
We don't
get paid a commission and do you even know what Title IV means? Title IV is a
fancy way to say financial aid."

Chris, it appears you know nothing about
Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended in 1998.

Honestly, I do not have the time to pick apart the rest of your idiotic post.  I'd like to give you one more tip before I close.  You also made a rebuttal the original complainant regarding "illegal hacking software".  I am not a fan of the statement made by Tom

(Arizona)
stating that a man sits in phoenix with "illegal

hacking software".  However, I do believe he is on to sometime and he is referring to
Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) technology.  DPI is the act of any IP network equipment which is not an endpoint of a communication using non-header content (typically the actual payload) for some purpose.

DPI can certainly notify a for-profit education company (almost instantaneously) when a prospective lead opens an email. 

I have posted this in the hope that you will recant your post and perhaps speak a little truth Chris Maguire.  If you have been with EDMC for almost two years, and you made your post about WGU in April of 2009 ... man up and own your misstatements.  Also, own your contradictions.

I read a post on jobvent.com which stated EDMC has blocked ripoffreport.com so employees cannot view it from the company network.  This corporation would not block this useful site unless they had something to hide.  This leads me to wonder ... what is really going on there?
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#10 UPDATE Employee

He is sad...

AUTHOR: Chris9317 - (U.S.A.)

First off buddy, there is no such thing as "Art Institute Online". You said we control a few others "Brown Mackie, etc."  What are these few others? The EDMC family is made up of Art Institutes (AI), South University, Argosy University, and Brown Mackie. Those are all. These campuses can also be found at EDMC.com. Now that you know who you are complaining about, let's move on to the rest of your errors.



 



You say we have two locations, Pittsburgh & Phoenix. What you have forgotten to mention is the 80-90 other locations we have in North America. South University in itself has 7 different campuses, with additional support coming from PHX and PGH. But having a "large building packed with what are conveniently named Assistant Directors of Admission". Really? I am an ADA and I'm not packed into anything. Second, what you forgot to mention was there are hundreds and hundreds of programs offered online for AI, SU, and AU. To say we are packed is a far stretch of the imagination. Second, what is your point? I am in no way a salesman. I've never sold anything, and personally I hate salesmen. I enjoy talking and listening to a student tell me why they want to go to school. Why is going to school important to them. If we have something for them, fantastic! If not, I go that extra mile to find something at one of our affiliated schools, or something in their local community. I don't get paid a commission, nor do I have some fancy title. "These titles were created to make them sound important but what they really are is salesman." First, perform a grammar/spelling check. Second, what title? 



 



What laws are we breaking? If you are going to call us out, say something. Give me something to back up your accusations. We don't get paid a commission and do you even know what Title IV means? Title IV is a fancy way to say financial aid. So, I ask again, what financial aid laws are we breaking? Oh, perhaps you are referring to the company training video you watched about how other schools such as UOP were busted for lying about their enrollment numbers so they could inflate employee salaries. Yeah, certainly not the case here. So again, if you are going to call us out of something that is illegal, please further explain what is so illegal.



 



"One of the heads of the online department Sam Yaghoubi hides in Phoenix with his illegal hacking software that tells him when potential students read emails from the schools and then directs Assistants to contact them because he knows they are at the computer and looking at his email." LMFAO! That was the greatest laugh I've ever had prior to 8am. First, Sam is a really cool guy. Actually, one of the nicer Directors I've met. Not only will he take the time out of his busy day for you, but he follows up with not only students, but other employees as well. I know this because I've seen him do it. Hacking software? Again, if you are going to accuse something, be more specific, otherwise, like the rest of your argument and criticism, it holds no weight. Oh, and let me be far, Sam doesn't hide anywhere. He has a very loud voice and frequently travels. Sam is good on computers, but I can assure you he wouldn't know the first thing about hacking software.



 



"They also lie to potential students on the phone about important matters such as their admissions process and financial aid." How? What can you possibly lie about? You fill out and complete your admissions application, like at ANY other school in the world. If you are going to apply for financial aid, you go about applying for it like any other college student would. I've been to college prior to working here, and it's the exact same steps. What is a lie? 



 



I don't MAKE anyone apply. If you are going to apply to go to school to further yourself, then I'm happy and supportive for you, but I can't force anyone to do anything. Are their certain questions I can't answer until they apply, well of course. I can't tell you how many classes will transfer in until I have your transcripts. I can't tell you how much Financial Aid you will receive, until you apply for it. So, please explain to me what I MAKE people do?



 



This next suggestion you give made me laugh again. "Once you've logged in and completed 2 assignments they now have at least one class worth of money out of you." A-hahahahahah! Not even close. First off, if a student decides to withdraw during that first week, it's called add/drop week, just like at any other school. Being, without penalty, a student can change/withdraw from the particular course. Now, if you were to go into week 2, 3, etc, then of course you will be charged for the time you spent in the class. Why wouldn't you? But completing a certain number of assignments doesn't constitute having a class worth of money from you, bozo. And considering we are "packed in here" to say we won't answer the phone in that period is hysterical. Me personally, I've never heard of a student calling during that first week of class saying they don't want to do this anymore. All of my students love their classes, professors, support staff, and other classmates. 



 



We aren't in the business of education? You pathetic lowlife, I take great offense to that as I personally have been a part of small teams that deliver our education. To say we are only doing this for the money is the most pathetic excuse you've given so far. Want to know what happen to the previous president of the company, he is still here. Now, if you want to talk about the previous president of EDMC OHE, then just say so. He retired you clown. He didn't run from anything. If anything, what did he run from? He was a nice guy, cracked a few jokes, donated tens of thousands of dollars from him own pocket, and was very well respected individual. We don't deliver on education? Really, that's the best you can say? We have over 80 campuses across the continent, I'm pretty sure we have figured it out by now. I take classes with South University online, I've loved them all, and I can assure you they deliver a solid education. I've been offered numerous jobs outside of EDMC, with a much higher rate of pay, but I've respectfully declined them all. I love my job and working with other students and making a difference in their lives. I love the people I work with and the location I'm in. I love the hours that I have, and I love what we stand for. Why would I want to leave? I may not enroll the most students, but all of mine have a special connection with me. I send them Christmas cards, I know their birthdays, and in most cases I know their spouses/children's birthdays. I get to know the people I'm working with. Other companies can't offer that. You can't put a dollar sign on compassion. There is a reason why they submitted their information online. Maybe they were job hunting, maybe they know someone that takes classes at one of our schools, maybe they've read RipOffReport.com and say what a moron you were. Whatever the reason, I love working with people and helping others. Would you bad mouth a hospital as they receive health insurance money/federal funding to cover their costs? Who has ever paid cash at a hospital? They have nurses and doctors where the more people they treat, the more money they get when their review comes up. Or would you bash the police or firefighters? Their money comes from our tax dollars. The more arrests that are made, you better believe that officer would get promoted and/or a raise. Again, you argument holds no weight. Sorry things didn't work out for you. Move on, and get over it. 



 



We're a publicly traded company to polish up an imagine? This really shows how little you truly do know. Companies go public all the time. They can earn more money that way by selling shares to pay off old debt, other expenses, or start new investments. It doesn't mean anything other than that. Don't believe me, Google it.



 



"This company is a giant bleeding your hard earned money and federal financial aid" I don't know what this sentence means; I suggest you look into enrolling into one of our online programs so you may earn your degree and get a quality education. Let's see, I'm still trying to read your mess of one huge paragraph. You don't have to buy any stock in the company, just Google them. What else do you want to know? The stock symbol is EDMC. Just pull it up. You don't need to "go" anywhere. 



 



Ok, let's get to this grand scheme of a matrix straight. I'm tired of you bashing it into the ground and beating it like a dead horse. All ADAs agreed to be paid based upon a number of factors to include professionalism, conduct, productivity, job knowledge, etc. These factors are called Quality Points for obvious reasons. The other factor is your enrollment numbers. The harder you work and the more students you enroll, the more potential pay you could earn. But let's get something straight first. I know people that enroll twice as many students as I do, but their attitude sucks at the office and they make half of my pay. The Quality points out weight by far the  possible increase students would give you. Not to mention, if you take on additional tasks and responsibilities, that also helps you pay the monthly bills. But then again, you have that anywhere you go. The harder you work at a job, the more you are going to get paid. And if you believe otherwise, then you don't know what the American Dream is.



 



Why is your buddy making $70 grand, and you only $32K? Well, that answer is quite simple, your attitude sucks. Improve your attitude, ask Sam to maybe give you some pointers on how to handle your emotions better, and maybe you can ask to transfer to another field or department. I like how you made such a visible attack on Admissions. What do you have to say about enrollment processors, academic advisors, career counselors, HR, payroll, accounting, facilities, and all the other employees we have? Are they crooks too? The people who take their own time and money and set up charity events for us to not only have a good time participating in, but also raise awareness for hunger, breast cancer, MS, blood drives, etc. Or how about the way EDMC cares for their employees with sporting events, company parties, free incentives to include parking, food, televisions, gift cards, etc. Oh wait! That's right, we are so illegal and breaking all kinds of laws. Do a quick Google News search in Pennsylvania where in Pittsburgh, millions were given to us to help build a new facility and expanse our current ones. And who headed that up, the governor of the state. So now a publicly elected official is in on it to. Shhhhh, don't tell anyone. Please, before you hurt yourself, please lay down for awhile.  



 



At this point, I'm done verbally beating you into the ground. But I can't help overlook your last desperate attempts you call a persuasive argument. EDMC has been around a lot longer than 5 years. To say the school has been open for only 5 years pertains to how long SOUTH has been doing ONLINE classes, so now we know you are an upset employee who not only doesn't know their knowledge, but now we can see why you were let go with good reasons. If companies like this make you so sick, why did you apply in the first place? The retention rate for EDMC is rather high. The company has been doing a fantastic job of working with weaker employees to better them at whatever they do. I know people that work in other fields and they get the same type of help you would receive at any other job. 



 



Your last sentence is the icing on the cake. You say you never worked here. Ok, look, you can lie to others, but you can't lie to yourself. It's ok you got fired and probably got laughed at on your way out the door. In fact, probably just the small number of people on your team were laughing at you, while the rest of the department didn't even realize you were gone. You sound like a very low level employee that had a poor attitude, uneducated, and just thought everyone should hand you something, like you're owed the world. I'm sorry to be the one to make you realize this, but you are officially pathetic and sorry. I think I've disputed every key part of your argument. I can't really tell though because of the terrible sentence skills you have. Bottom line is EDMC has gone out of their way to ensure that not only do we deliver a solid and quality education, but in no way shape or form are we breaking any rules or laws. I can assure you, if we were, there would be much more on this site then your pathetic little bitching fit. I wish you well, and good luck.

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#11 Consumer Comment

Angry Student

AUTHOR: Tonya - (United States of America)

I would just like to know that the idiotic employee "Tom" that wrote this report is a moron..  I mean if EDMC was such a bad company and was breaking the law then weren't you doing the same by working for them.  Obviously this is something that you haven't thought about since you are too insecure and narrowminded that you are not living up tp your mistakes as well.  I think what your problem is that you have been fired for something you did wrong and now you feel guilty.  As a student, I have never once been lied to so for you to sit here and lie about a school that I am proud to be a part of just wrong and unethical.  So I think you should rethink your staement, life, and soul and get it right!!!!  My last statement would be that if EDMC is so BAD then why are you an employee?

 

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#12 UPDATE Employee

Matrix

AUTHOR: Qui Tam - (United States of America)

Tom,

I will keep this short and simple, your are right on the money. Yes, the Matrix is designed for their Sales Telemarketing Teams, oops, sorry, the ASSISTANT DIRECTORS of ADMISSIONS, to get paid based directly on enrollments, yes they have QUALITY POINTS, that is just their smoke and mirrors. How can anyone prove it audit their payroll, I have worked there a year and a half, and yes I am a great employee, have excellent quality points, highly effect employee but my enrollments just weren't there, so should I of have gotten a raise, my first 6 months, my first year, being a highly effective employee, well again my enrollments weren't there, no RAISE, not even a cost of living! Don't you think if they audit and see the  "red flags", Admissions employees, 6 month raises, increases some $10,000, $20,000 and even higher. I have seen it in black in white, my own reviews, yes the Matrix violates the federal regulations, I have seen reviews where I had more quality points than others and they have gotten raises, on quality points only, I know not everyone starting salaries varies. I will say this, I think it would be in the best interest for EDMC to review the Matrix, and change it, my 18 months is coming up, and my starting salary hasn't changed, and it looks like this Highly Effective employee might take a 15% decrease, my enrollments are lacking, it would not be in EDMC best interest to touch my starting salary!

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#13 UPDATE Employee

Just to note

AUTHOR: anonymous - (United States of America)

I find it quite offensive that you would call me a lier. I will never lie to a student, nor will I compromise my morality. I do my best to assist a student in any way possible, even going to the point that if we do not offer the program that they are interested, I will point them in the right direction to find that program at a different school. Whether you are an ex-employee or not, what is a fact is that you are disgruntled. How has this company directly effected you? I would like to know.
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#14 Author of original report

Response

AUTHOR: Tom - (United States of America)

Okay first of all lets start with the pay scale.

So you are saying that the Matrix pay scale is legal......Yet you don't know how.  Sounds like you don't know if it's legal at all.  Just because the company is using it doesn't mean it's legal.  I guess if they were shooting people out back and no one was arrested for it that's legal too...Hey, we wouldn't understand how, but I guess that means it is.

Lets paint the picture here for people to decide if it's illegal or not.  You listed yourself as an employee so it should be easy for you.  On your pay scale you have a spread sheet that lists the number of students you get to go to the school as well as a corresponding spread sheet on the right that dictates YOUR PAY in correspondence with how many people you talk into going to school.  So, given simple logic and commonsense you would say that you get paid BASED ON HOW MANY STUDENTS YOU ENROLL.  It is a commission based pay scale and is ILLEGAL under Title IV section (b) higher education law.  So no Mr. or Mrs. Employee IT IS NOT LEGAL.  Not at all.  Another words for the layman....A salesman in the appliances department at Sears gets paid based on how many appliances he sells, and an Assistant Director of Admissions at EDMC gets paid based on the number of students they enroll in classes.  Simple, undeniable and the TRUTH.  Both sales...One legal; One illegal.

Moving on,

You act like the Department of Education is sitting on the other line listening to each and every employee that works for that company.  Nothing could be farther from the truth.  First off, EDMC has its OWN compliance department that sends reports to the Department of Education on good faith those reports are good.  The Department of Education is so huge and covers so much ground they do not have the man power or the resources to monitor each and every school and the people on the phone.  EDMC created it's own compliance department when University of Phoenix was almost taken down by a bunch of students claiming that they were lied to over the phone and ripped out of their money.  Always remember, that person listening to you on the phone......They don't work for the department of education...THEY WORK FOR EDMC.  Of course their compliance department can't be perfect and have no one ever say anything wrong or else the department of education would catch on and investigate.  So they just pick a few people out of all of you and fire you for barely crossing the line with something.  Cause after all, online school is a war for $$$ so there has to be some casualties.  Don't worry people don't seem to last long with their employment there...So my guess is that it won't be long before you lose your job to a barely marginal excuse of a firing.

Finally I would just like to say that from the moment I filed this complaint on this site that it must have taken record time for someone to respond.  Does EDMC pay you to surf the complaint blogs and type the best rebuttal you could to make them look good?  You don't have to answer because I know that they do.  In fact, one of the selling points for schools like South University is to "Look on Rip Off Report, you'll see all the other schools and not ours."  You know how I know this?  BECAUSE ONE TRIED IT WITH ME.  It's amazing how you can learn the truth about a company and it's employees by just making a prank call pretending to be interested in their product just to see that they say and do anything to get you to go.  In a way I can't really blame the Assistant Directors of Admissions...In this economy I'm sure anyone would do whatever it takes to keep their job, and lets face it if you don't get them to apply or go they'll fire you.  It's a sales job...Plain and simple.  We both know that when sales and education get mixed it's not a good thing.  It's illegal.

The important thing is that you understand what I am attacking here.  It's not so much the Assistant Directors of Admissions as much as it is EDMC the company.  If it wasn't for the way EDMC makes it's employees do their job in order to keep their jobs the Assistant Directors wouldn't be forced to act like this.  How the employees do their job or how the employees are paid is the responsibility of the company to be done legally.  Hey, if you are an Assistant Director there making 80 grand a year because of that pay scale good for you.  You didn't create it and you certainly aren't responsible for it.  The company however...IS.

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#15 UPDATE Employee

EDMC is not breaking the law

AUTHOR: anonymous - (United States of America)

Look, I understand that you are obviously very angry with the company for whatever reason.  However, I assure you that the pay matrix is perfectly legal.  I'll be honest, I'm not sure how exactly it is, but it is.


Also, I will not deny that some people may lie to students over the phone, however if they are caught they are immediately fired.  I cannot say that no one in this company twists words or does anything underhanded, but you will find a few bad seeds in any company.


We cannot lie to students or have an illegal pay scale.  We ARE monitored by the Department of Education.  We have a little thing called Compliance which is basically a list of rules and what we can and cannot say.  It is possible that something could be said that does not fall in line with compliance, simply because there are so many rules and restrictions that it is impossible to know them all by heart.  Knowingly giving a student false information is obviously against compliance.  There are different levels of breaking compliance.  Punishments, depending on the level, can range from a simple warning not to do it again or you'll be fired to being put on leave to automatic termination.


I can't speak for everyone in the company, but I am a college graduate with a good amount of loans to pay back.  I do not lie to students or mislead them about the fact that they will have to pay their loans back after they graduate. Also, we very rarely deal with 18 and 19 year old kids.  These people are grown adults.  If they don't understand by now that you have to pay back a loan, that's why it's called a loan, it is not my fault.


Also, when it comes to the quality of education, you get what you put in.  This is not highschool where you go, sit in a class, pretend to listen to the teacher talk, and get points for it.  It's an ONLINE environment.  You have to do actual work in order to learn.  You have to be self-motivated, driven, and really want to better yourself education-wise.  People tend to think that because it's online it's easy and you don't have to put in much work.  We are trained and told to let our students know to expect to put in 10-15 hours of work per class a week.  As long as the Assistant Director of Admissions is doing their job properly, the student shouldn't be blindsided with anything.  Our job is to give the potential student as much information as possible in order for them to make an educated decision as to which school they want to go with.  The individuals that don't do this tend to not last long in the company.

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