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Report: #1097295

Complaint Review: Stack Overflow - Internet

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  • Reported By: Karl — Long Beach California
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  • Stack Overflow Internet USA

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My experience with Stack Overflow is similar to those of others: a negative experience and a waste of time.  They won't take your money like some of the scammers on RipoffReport.com but they will take your time, and that's just as bad if not worse.  So go elsewhere to ask for help if you're a beginning or experienced coder looking for a helping hand, because the club of jerks that is Stack Overflow isn't really trying to help you. 


That's apparently because the site is structured to award points to long-time members who can find or fabricate any reason to delete questions, so that's what they do!  If you review the site you will find most questions never get answered, and the long-term members use the place as kind of a big set of chat rooms where they post a lot of pointless comments to one another.  So save your time and go elsewhere!  Here's my story, you've been warned:

I asked this question at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/204164/is-it-possible-to-add-an-amazon-astore-to-a-facebook-page :

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I am trying to add an Amazon Store to a Facebook page to create a Brain & Consciousness Library at https://www.facebook.com/BrainAndConsciousnessLibrary using the functioning Amazon aStore shown at http://astore.amazon.com/brainandconsciousness-20. You can see the tabs ('Enter Library', 'Neuro Anatomy' etc.) where I have tried a number of experiments (for example using apps.facebook.com/static_html_plus for several of them -- sorry this input page doesn't want me to post the whole link, I'm apparently limited to only posting 2 links in the form box, this after the moderator asks for some detailed research, oh well..), none of which work completely so far.

The problem is the links inside the store don't work when embedded in Facebook, like the add to cart button and other nav links. Sometimes the links to view a specific book in the store do work but not always and never the add to cart button or shopping cart link. There's no error message provided, links and buttons just sit there and don't do anything. I would sure appreciate some help as to how to fix this bug!
-------------

Does that sound like I'm not trying very hard to seek input and discussion from the community?  I've identified a specific problem -- links not working -- under specific conditions having to do with how Amazon aStores interact with Facebook.  I've posted links to show exactly where the problem can be observed on Facebook and where no problems exist when the same store is outside Facebook.  Presumably these coding geniuses understand how to View Source of web pages provided and look at the code at the root of the problem, and I ask for their help.  What do I get back?  The question gets deleted because some unnamed pinhead says "This question does not appear to seek input and discussion from the community".  WTF, did he even read the question I wonder?

So I look around the site a little and I find an older post framed as a question at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/1999/what-has-happened-to-the-quality-of-answers-on-stack-overflow/204271 where Peter Mortensen asked "What has happened to the quality of answers on Stack Overflow?" and says:

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However, my recent experiences have been anything but positive. It appears to me now:

Users are only interested in spraying quick answers in the hope of gaining some reputation points
Users have no real interest in following up and engaging in dialogue or answer improvement
Any question that is 'deep' or difficult or cannot be answered with a quick, fired-off, answer, either doesn't attract any response at all or attracts facile / low grade / sarcastic answers
A lot of the high quality users have lost interest
People seem more interested in having a rep than actually answering, helping, guiding, teaching and sharing knowledge
------------------

This made me realize I wasn't the only one, mine wasn't a bad question, I had just run afoul of the same kind of negative and useless characters on Stack Overflow that Peter had.  I decided to add this comment there:

---------------
I totally agree with this question because yesterday I asked a perfectly relevant question and got smacked down -- question deleted -- because of somebody's vague interpretation that I 'wasn't trying to involve the community' despite my very direct plea for help from the community! So then I look around a little bit and I see very few questions actually get answered and the ones that do often get stupid comments instead of real answers. What this site seems to be more about than anything else is a chat area for a bunch of long-term little pr*cks trying to earn points who apparently delight in finding ways NOT to answer questions by deleting them!

But still I wondered why my question, asking about how to integrate Amazon stores into Facebook, might have offended someone, so I looked around. And I found this page: Auto-Inserting Stack Overflow affiliate into all Amazon book links where it turns out that Stack Overflow uses code to override someone else's affiliate links if they post them, and replace them with Stack Overflow's affiliate links! How interesting! They clearly have a vested interest in not allowing anyone else's affiliate links on their site, which is not stated anywhere in the registration or posting process but which I apparently violated by posting a link to a functioning Amazon store (let's do it again, see if they censor this one too) at http://astore.amazon.com/brainandconsciousness-20. I couldn't get it well integrated (turns out it only works in Internet Explorer) at https://www.facebook.com/BrainAndConsciousnessLibrary. OBVIOUSLY I wasn't spamming or just trying to post an affiliate link, I am having a PROBLEM WITH THE CODE on the Facebook page, and there's the proof right there on the page! What a bunch of rude jerks to just dismiss my question without even trying to help.

Of course there's no way to know for sure what their motivations may have been, the only thing certain is they weren't interested in helping me with my coding problem. Maybe it's a simpler issue, like they just don't like to be revealed as inept so they delete questions they can't answer?

I'm not going to make the assumption that everyone whose role here is answering questions is a useless little p***k, but it seems clear that those who saw my question fit that description and Peter Mortensen's question suggests they've been a long time coming. Too bad, but thankfully for both serious experienced coders and serious beginners seeking help, it's good to know there are PLENTY OF OTHER OPTIONS on the web from people who are actually helpful instead of this useless bunch!
----------------

So what do they do?  THEY CENSOR MY COMMENT IN RESPONSE TO PETER MORTENSEN!  

A line below my deleted (but temporarily I guess visible to me, kinda grayed-out) says "deleted by minitech" and is followed by a couple more snarky comments from other useless non-helpful Stack Overflow members.  Real helpful bunch, don't you think?

Well they can delete my comment from their little sandbox but thanks to Ed Magedson for running RipoffReport.com they don't get to CENSOR my warning to others: GO SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR CODING HELP!  STACK OVERFLOW WILL ONLY WASTE YOUR TIME!

And to you little pr*cks on Stack Overflow: GFY

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/06/2013 01:12 AM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/stack-overflow/internet/stack-overflow-stack-exchange-they-claim-to-be-helpful-but-theyre-not-they-will-just-1097295. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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#7 Author of original report

Two More Tests of the Integrity of stackoverflow.com (FAILED)

AUTHOR: Karl - ()

POSTED: Thursday, November 07, 2013

After seeing MochaG's helpful response here I posted a rhetorical question on stackoverflow.com at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/204521/did-you-know-that-ripoffreport-com-attracts-better-programming-answers-and-peopl titled "Did you know that RipoffReport.com attracts better programming answers and people are way more decent than the unhelpful ones on this site?".  It was just a tongue-in-cheek test, I didn't really expect it to stay up long, and it didn't, but I mainly wanted them to know their poor behavior was on exhibit at RipoffReport.com.  The body of the question simply said this:

See for yourself!

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Stack-Overflow/internet/Stack-Overflow-Stack-Exchange-They-claim-to-be-helpful-but-theyre-NOT-they-will-just-1097295

In agreement with the question posed at What has happened to the quality of answers on Stack Overflow?

That Question didn't stay up more than a few minutes, as expected.  So I wrote another Question at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/204541/how-does-rudeness-and-censorship-promote-learning-on-stackoverflow?noredirect=1#comment653854_204541 being very careful to follow all the rules.  I also wanted to include in it some responses to commenters on my second question that got deleted before I even finished writing my responses!  They don't waste any time censoring words they don't like over there!  Some commenters had suggested that the reason my first Question was sumarily deleted was because it was posted in the wrong area of the site, intended for "Meta-Questions" (questions about the site itself rather than outside programming issues) so I wrote a perfectly valid Meta-Question and guess what?  It got deleted too!  This is what they couldn't face head-on and felt the need to censor:

How Does Rudeness and Censorship Promote Learning on StackOverflow?

I see at http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/09/good-subjective-bad-subjective/ this sentiment expressed, which I heartily agree with:

> Because we believe so deeply in learning, we are willing to go to
> great lengths to suppress the discussion, debate, and opinions that --
> while plenty entertaining -- cause most forums to inevitably break
> down.

However, when valid questions do not get answered or at least referred to better places for getting answered, but instead of even trying to answer them they simply get rudely deleted by the people who are supposed by be 'helping' others, the educational goal appears to me to be completely perverted and defeated. Am I wrong about this somehow? Did my request for help contribute to me or anyone else learning anything useful other than how heavily populated stackoverflow.com is with ugly personalities?

I don't think so, and my repugnance at censorship is so great that I have taken away the censors' power at http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Stack-Overflow/internet/Stack-Overflow-Stack-Exchange-They-claim-to-be-helpful-but-theyre-NOT-they-will-just-1097295 so that other people don't have to discover the hard way how stackoverflow.com really operates, so that they will not waste their time as I did, accidentally.

The reproducibility of censorship here was tested with another question at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/204521/did-you-know-that-ripoffreport-com-attracts-better-programming-answers-and-peopl and it only lasted maybe 20 minutes! THAT was a valid Meta-question, deleted so quickly by low-integrity users hims056, Bart, and ChrisF. Since I was denied the opportunity to respond to a few of the people who posted comments, I am submitting this EVEN MORE RELEVANT META-QUESTION to reply to them here. Let's discover who the low-integrity users of stackoverflow.com are who will censor THIS question so I can expose them in RipoffReport.com too!


Responses to comments posted at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/204521/did-you-know-that-ripoffreport-com-attracts-better-programming-answers-and-peopl

@icktoofay thank you for your decent attitude. I came to the site with a question, followed through with the instructions to research first, made sure it was a topic appropriate to the site, described a very specific problem with links to both working and non-working code, and asked for help in a way that if answered properly might help others, because I can't be the first one who has run into problems integrating an Amazon aStore with a Facebook Page. Clicking the Ask Question button and filling out the form resulted in it being posted where it was, I don't recall any part of the process asking if I wanted to ask a programming question or a Meta question although it is possible in retrospect to guess that I might have wandered into the Meta site and not recognized it as different, as they look nearly the same and the phrasing of questions being asked are not dissimilar.

Do you think any of the people who looked at my question might have been polite enough to point that out? They weren't. Do you think any of the people who looked at my question might have had sufficient integrity to justify deleting my question? They didn't. The reason given was "This question does not appear to seek input and discussion from the community", did they not even take the trouble to read the question? They behave as if they think it's appropriate to just make up their own personal rules for the site as they go along. I wish one of the people like yourself who seem to be in the tiny minority here had seen my question and at least tried to be helpful, but that didn't happen. The page at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/204164/is-it-possible-to-add-an-amazon-astore-to-a-facebook-page indicates it was viewed 32 times, suggesting for a first approximation that no more than 1 out of every 33 people here even TRY to be helpful!

@RJ you make very clear you are part of the problem. Why don't you go somewhere else if you want so badly to be unhelpful to people?

@Chelseawillrecover when you say "Why can't people appreciate the fact that people on SO aren't been paid to answer questions", why do you try to make it into about whether people here are paid or not? Are you trying to imply that it's okay for volunteers to be rude and unhelpful? Why are they even here then? Why are they tolerated? Why do you not root them out and make the site what it is intended to be instead of what it has obviously degenerated into? (ref: http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/1999/what-has-happened-to-the-quality-of-answers-on-stack-overflow/204271#204271). And when you say "...the fact that one looks at questions and use their spare time to assist is worth appreciation. I have a family to care for and work to attend to but still I find time to research and assist someone like you" I can't help but notice that you did NOT assist me nor is there anything of genuine assistance in your comment at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/204521/did-you-know-that-ripoffreport-com-attracts-better-programming-answers-and-peopl.


PLEASE NOTE: While I have no expectation of changing the ingrained site culture of rudeness and censorship that has been allowed to develop on stackoverflow.com, at this point I am only motivated in providing sufficient documentation about the phenomenon to warn others away from the same kind of experience that I and others commonly experience here.

This last question was fraudulently "put on hold as unclear what you're asking by Martijn Pieters, Bart, Duncan, hims056, jonsca" (AS IF it was an unclear question, they just didn't like it!) and ultimately deleted by low-integrity moderator-user Oded but not after being rather drastically edited without my prior knowledge or permission to reshape its content.  Before being deleted my words were altered by some kind of super-user named Richard Tingle so if that page ever does become open to the public, it will falsely portray his words as my own.  That is not something that is ever done by any reputable person or brand, PROVING BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT STACKOVERFLOW.COM OPERATES UNETHICALLY.  So while I started off just thinking they make false claims about being helpful and instead are mostly a big waste of time, they are worse than that and outright fraudulent in their behaviors.

CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED! 

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#6 Author of original report

Second correction:

AUTHOR: Karl - ()

POSTED: Thursday, November 07, 2013

It was apparently not "some unnamed pinhead" who deleted my first Question on stackoverflow.com but three collaborators going by the names of Tim Stone, Bart, and Mad Scientist.  Low-integrity users "ben is ben backwards (sic)", Yannis, and Bill the Lizard were the ones who apparently flagged my Question as "This question does not appear to seek input and discussion from the community".  All without a single word of help regarding changes in wording or a better place to post my question.  

 

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#5 Author of original report

Thank you Robert, too bad you're in the tiny minority on stackoverflow.com by trying to actually be helpful

AUTHOR: Karl - ()

POSTED: Thursday, November 07, 2013

I appreciate your effort to identify what might have been the cause of my question being deleted, although none of those speculations would justify such discourteous and low-integrity behaviors by stackoverflow.com regulars who are supposed to be there to help people, no?  Apparently over time the website has degenerated to the point such behaviors are not only common but accepted by the group as normal.  In that environment I can only wonder if any of the things you suggest as improvements would really have changed anything.

I disagree however with your characterization of time lost not being a ripoff, because the site holds itself out as a knowledge resource and yet promotes and/or allows behaviors that prevent its use.  Time is even more important than money, because we can never get any more of it!  So time-wasting individuals and organizations belong on RipoffReport.com just as much as those who rip you off for money or something else.

I'm glad to hear that 'sometimes' you can get a straight answer from stackoverflow.com at least, that must keep you going back I guess.  You must have a stronger stomach than I do, because I haven't met a nastier group of people since I last visited FreeRepublic.com.  So I think I will just seek help in the future in places where people behave more like decent human beings.  

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#4 Author of original report

Correction

AUTHOR: Karl - ()

POSTED: Thursday, November 07, 2013

It was apparently not Peter Mortensen but someone with the handle 'flesh' who asked "What has happened to the quality of answers on Stack Overflow?" that I responded to as described above, and was censored.  

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#3 Consumer Suggestion

Stack Exchange has guidelines as to which questions can be posted where; following them may help

AUTHOR: michaelb958 - ()

POSTED: Thursday, November 07, 2013

Stack Exchange has fairly rigid guidelines about where questions may be posted. For example, our Cooking site would not accept questions about bicycles, nor would our Database Administration site accept questions about card games.

Your question (that you were kind enough to paste into your report) looks to me like a reasonable question - it's a lot better than a lot of the stuff Stack Overflow receives daily. If you had posted it on Stack Overflow, it would probably have been well-received. However, for some reason, you posted it on Meta Stack Overflow. This is not the programming Q&A site; this is the Q&A site about the Q&A site.

It should be noted that some users of Meta Stack Overflow can get a little snappy when questions that should be on Stack Overflow arrive there, and I can't fix that. However, when you have a question, it helps if you ask it in the right place. (After all, would you enter a football stadium and ask one of the audience a science question? No? I'd probably go to a university science department instead.)

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#2 Consumer Comment

Understanding Security Holes

AUTHOR: MochaG - ()

POSTED: Wednesday, November 06, 2013

After reading your report, it seems that you do not understand security & exploitation on the Internet well enough to know that your question looks like a bad questions to those who are in the field. The major problem with third party (affiliate) links inside a website is security hole which cannot be controled by any visitors. When a visitor visits a site, the visitor established a trust level to the site. If there are so many different external links (which may or may not be visible), the visitor would not want to go to the site at all. As a result, the trust level of the site that posts the links could easily go down. So a simple solution, which is also a fault negative solution, is to not allow any links at all (no favor over one another).

To post a functional external links on a web site you have no control of may be difficult. If you are allowed to use JavaScript, it may work but not guarantee. There are ways to work around, but it may cause bad relationship with your hosting site. I would rather redesign the business model or the way it works instead of try to break their set up template.

The IE browser tends to break a lot of standard -- allow certain functionalities that are risky to security whereas other browsers don't -- and that might be the reason why IE works for you. Is it nice? Of course. Is it secured? Unlikely.

Here are a couple links that may interested you on how to build amazon store on facebook.

http://www.wikihow.com/Build-an-Amazon-Store-on-Facebook
(((link redacted)))

I stop posting on any tech forum sites because it took too much time of me to answer each question. :P

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#1 Consumer Comment

Welcome to the Internet

AUTHOR: Robert - ()

POSTED: Wednesday, November 06, 2013

You are also not going to like this but I can see why your question "may" have been a violation worth deleting..you may have been too specific.

You mentioned what I can only guess is your site, and thus it could be seen as an advertisement for your site.  Not only that but because your very specific case would only help you and not really the "community", but had you gone more general and just said something like "I am trying to add an Amazon store called abccompany to a facebook page called abcpage" you may have been just fine.

Next, part of this may also be not asking the question in the right "forum" or "catagory".  That is if this is a Facebook or Amazon issue, putting a "SQL" tag may not be the best.  Asking a question on a food site isn't exactly the best way to ask for help to fix your car.  Oh and no I am not saying you did either of these just giving you examples.

It may also not be the best site for your question, but that doesn't make it a RipOff of time.  If you have a store issue with Amazon or a Facebook issue, both of those sites have support forums as well that may give you more complete answers.

If you are going to try and claim some "Ripoff" of time, there are many..many "community" technical and programming sites that are a lot worse.  Now some full disclosure, I use this site(along with many others).   I have posted questions and looked up previous questions.  Sometimes the information is good..sometimes not.   Sometimes I find my answer, sometimes it puts me on the right path, sometimes I get nothing out of it.  But again..that does not make it a RipOff.  

You just need to know "how" to ask the right question to get the right answer and sometime that does take time.

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