• Report: #979130

Complaint Review: SunDew Saves horses

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  • Submitted: Fri, December 07, 2012
  • Updated: Sun, December 30, 2012

  • Reported By: Pat — Margaretville New York U.S.A.
SunDew Saves horses
New Holland, PA New Holland, Pennsylvania United States of America

SunDew Saves horses Lorraine Sundew Smith unlicensed broker who "sells" horses from Kill buyer New Holland, Pennsylvania

*Consumer Comment: Lorraine's Horse Rescue

*Consumer Comment: where is your real name?

*Consumer Comment: Happy Holidays

*Consumer Comment: Azzhat Lorraine Smith

*General Comment: sounds like JNL Pocono Stables/Janet Santini or Nancy Johns ,who hides behind many names, or even Kelly Smith ,Young Omega

*Consumer Comment: No b*lls!

*Consumer Comment: Missing $600???

*Consumer Comment: I feel Sorry

*Author of original report: Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

*Consumer Comment: I welcome confrontation

*Author of original report: Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: what is your point Pat ????

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Pick a Story

*Author of original report: Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

*Author of original report: Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

*Consumer Comment: Not Sure How You Fit In

*Author of original report: Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

*Consumer Comment: Out Of Character

*General Comment: Sundew Saves

*Author of original report: Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

*General Comment: Sundew Saves

*Author of original report: Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

*Author of original report: Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Pat Kitchen is a liar

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Sundew Saves horses pulls horses from New Holland Auction, yes, this is can be a good thing.  But, recently we bought/paid for a horse that suddenly disappeared.  I tried for more than 12 hours to try to schedule required medical issues and got no call back.  Then 12 hours later I was finally called back and told that this, and others, horses were "mistakenly" picked up and shipped to feed lot.  No one would say who picked them up or where they were headed. It was purported that this horse was lame "and of no use to us" and a killbuyer was told to "load him up".    A police report was filed and Lorraine Smith got pissed, refunded the woman's money (this was not requested). Once the police report  was filed quickly all kinds of police between PA and TX were made aware of the situation and horse was found within 24 hours.  Because this horse as never "delivered/picked up" there was no transfer of ownership/sales receipt other than Paypal receipt.  Despite us finding the horse, Sundew Saves worked diligently to make sure we never got the horse and sold him out from under us (sold him, again, before he was ever found).  

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/07/2012 12:22 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/SunDew-Saves-horses/New-Holland-Pennsylvania-/SunDew-Saves-horses-Lorraine-Sundew-Smith-unlicensed-broker-who-sells-horses-from-Kill-b-979130. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Lorraine's Horse Rescue

AUTHOR: ScaredofLorraineSmithTildenWenig - ()

I believe Lorraine Smith is Lorraine Tilton Wenig of Spring Hills, Florida 15254 Little Ranch Road. She is currently running Lorraine's Horse Rescue. For whatever reason, I cannot CNTRL/V the URL. for her Horse Rescue website. There are also two Newsarticles "Strangers help get Horses back on their feet"  There are court docs going back to 1998 - one for Check Fraud. 

 

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#2 Consumer Comment

where is your real name?

AUTHOR: SDSwatcher - (United States of America)

   I see you don't want anyone to see your real name either. I have been watching the SDS page for awhile.  There was no excuse that horses that were paid for got shipped. That is plain laziness & I don't believe the hauler aka now horse trader's story. Why didn't she make a point of having the kill buyer's phone number??? All I see is excuses & caps. Lies snowball into more lies.
   The comments here remind me very much of AC4h's leader & founder & SDS's friend. Almost the same wording and style in fact. But I don't see AC4h's slamming her. Which leads me to think they are working together. Such a shame the horses always suffer.
   
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#3 Consumer Comment

Happy Holidays

AUTHOR: Sandy - (United States of America)

Arlow is a ex kill buyer, who occasionally ships a load across the boarder, and when I say ship, I mean he drives them over himself.  He is always desperate for money, so he hustles the crap out of horses.  Rotz only does consolidated loads to Mexico, which is not often, but on occasion he buddies up with another shipper.  He does not ship Minis, Mini Donkeys, or anything under 700 pounds, he does not ship drafts as it's waste of space, and too much bone.  

All horses that he buys at NH with the intention of shipping shoes are pulled in his pen there at NH, and they are called straights. I have seen numerous horses that were shod, with no shoes pulled, but they were shipping within days.  Do you really think people are stupid enough to believe that Rotz is going to spend money on a barn by NH to hold resale horses?  This is the same guy that has dragged horses with his skid steer across his property before putting a bullet in them.  So, making him out to have some type of compassion and heart is absurd.  

Spending 900 on vet care and board on a that poor old mule...don't you mean 10 dollars a day at Shirk's place? The one he rarely visits, and depends on Amish guy to feed them?  Vet...huh...guess you are referring to Dr.Holt who is a crooked as the day is long, why didn't you have him look at her the first day you pulled her from the pen? Why wait so long?  How about that little appy gelding that was euthanized?  Why wasn't that addressed when he was pulled?  

I could go on and on...but, I won't bother, because you will threaten with your feeble slander lawsuits, did you learn that from Kelly?  By the way, I hope Bruce enjoyed his annual Christmas cookies.  And tell Shirk that he should stop hustling ponies threw you, he did much better without any of your programs.  

              
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#4 Consumer Comment

Azzhat Lorraine Smith

AUTHOR: JnL Pocono Stables - (United States of America)

You are such an azzhat Lorraine! I don't do anonymous. I'm not afraid to speak up when I have something to say but you are not worth my time! You post is pure slander and will be forwarded to my attorney. Your point in posting a pic of the curley horse that was laying in the hay and has burrs and hay stuck to her?? LOL What junk are you talking about?? O yea the pile that was taken away on cleanup day OUTSIDE the pasture, pffft shows your ingnorance but then most people know how ignorant you are.
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#5 General Comment

sounds like JNL Pocono Stables/Janet Santini or Nancy Johns ,who hides behind many names, or even Kelly Smith ,Young Omega

AUTHOR: Lorraine - (United States of America)

So, if this is the convicted FELON DRUG DEALER, JANET SANTINI, JNL POCONO STABLES,. DRUG ABUSER who's dilapidated farm is in FORECLOSURE and who breeds and breeds the hell out of her UNLICENSED DOGS,  adding to the over population of dogs - no surprise you would chime in here with a pathetic attempt to add credit to tarp shack, horse flipper Pat Kitchen.....birds of feather you two.  Exactly how do you know how much was raised?  Where is your proof???  And have to ask, why are you ANONYMOUS????  I have seen nothing but a great effort on the SunDew page.  No surprise your lazy unemployed feeble attempt to discredit a group doing something positive would chime in here.  SunDew/Lorraine made 75.00 dollars, where is your proof there????...roflmao...woo hoo... if that is true that will pay for her one tank of fuel out of FOUR each month she makes  getting off her ass and to do something for the horses.  What do you do Jan??? Slither out of you disgusting barn apartment and feed your moldy hay to the poor souls stuck at your junk yard.  If you had half a brain you would ask Nancy Johns, who, boldly posted on a FaceBook page that SHE called this very kill buyer and "SAVED" the other 3 that were not fundraised for or bailed and had them sent back.....

well then, SHE is responsible for the $600.00 ($200.00/each) for having THEM sent back....or since you make up things as you go, Jan, then why don't you ask Kelly Young SMITH (OMEGA HORSE RESCUE) why SHE has not paid for the other 3 (600.00) because SHE said SHE asked the Kill buyer to send the other 3 back.  The VERY kill buyer Lorraine had NOTHING to do with, nor had his phone number because she was asked by Kelly to help with HER connection, as this was NOT the kill buyer Lorraine was working with.. Any way you slice it...the only decent person here, is once again, Lorraine because SHE PAID for the THREE she SAVED and HAD SHIPPED BACK!!!! OH, and why don't you send that great group a donation towards the 900.00 SHE paid for the mule SHE pulled out of the KILL pen, VETTED, paid board, transported, and had euthanized so she did not have to go to slaughter with a terminal illness....The way I see it and the long list of people (that is growing) see it...she is one of the FEW good guys out there making a difference in the lives of the unfortunate horses...as for you...a hopeless dirt bag adding nothing but unsupported lies because you have done nothing with your pathetic life.
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#6 Consumer Comment

No b*lls!

AUTHOR: noneya - (United States of America)

To you who cannot give your name!

What a piece of crap you are!

Yeah I know you and if you think for one minute your going to down Ms. Smith for your sorry handy work you are really mistaken.

$600? Oh the money that was raised to bring horses back from the potential horrible death?

No money was pocketed so get your sh*t straight and go shove a piece of holiday pie in your fat ugly a**.

When someone does something good all you can do is bad mouth that person.

Do something productive with your life!!!!
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#7 Consumer Comment

Missing $600???

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (United States of America)

Sundew Saves is NOT a registered Pennsylvania company, it is a registered New Jersey company. It is registered as a  non-profit, but Sundew Saves is NOT a registered charity with the state of New Jersey.

Despite not being a registered charity, Lorraine fundraised for $1,200 on the SunDew page to pay for the return of the horses. Though Lorraine should have paid the kill buyer $1,200 for the return of the horses, she only paid the kill buyer $600.  What happened to the other $600??? 

And Lorraine IS making money off the horses. The leopard appaloosa in question is one she made about $75 from. For someone who said they don't make money off the backs of animals, Lorraine sure is doing that now through SunDew Saves.
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#8 Consumer Comment

I feel Sorry

AUTHOR: Ken K - (United States of America)

So.... I have to be honest its kinda like arguing with my nephew who is 4. So just to help I always spoke in regards to Ms. Smith having a slander case. You then said it was myself and Ms Smith who slandered you. You brought me into it and at no time did I say anything about me bring suit against you. Why would I? I also offered my contact info in the event you felt I slandered you. Thee American Airlines comment was based on the statement you made about a horse showing up in Texas 12 hours later. My point was not unless he was on an Airplane because it is impossible to get to any part of Texas in 12 hours from Pennsylvania unless on an airplane. The fact that you would think talking about spending 26k on a horses vet bill is boasting leads me to believe you have no idea what it really costs to care for horses properly or the costs of providing a horse a proper farm. Now I think I said it slow, clear, and used relatively small words so as not to confuse you. The part that baffles me is you felt ripped off when you didn't receive your FREE horse. Google the term Ripped off and see if it says anything about getting something for nothing. I feel sorry for your family and friends if you take issue with any of your free Christmas presents. I may have to defend them from you on this site. I won't end this trying to take the high road like you did as you didn't when you allowed your cheap petty self to file this. So I hope your Christmas Sucks and hope the crap you bestow on others smacks you 10 fold this holiday season.
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#9 Author of original report

Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: Pat - (U.S.A.)

Well, congratulations Ken on saving your horse. Interesting how you boast on $$ spent, but that is neither here nor there.  
 "If I were to buy my best friend Bob a shiny new car on ebay and then I called the dealer and he said he sold it Bob may be pissed but unless I'm his legal representative he has no leg to stand on and if me as the buyer is pissed then I would have to prove how I was damaged. I wouldn't be able to sue the dealer for fail to perform because we didn't have a written contract." - No but you have a "presumed" contract which can be just as legally binding as a written one.  "While you could get sued for slander because you are making allegations against Ms. Smith directly who is a NJ resident and is directly afforded protection by a NJ corporation she is sole shareholder that is used to deal with slaughter horse rescue not her affiliations with a PA based group. I still haven't spoken to Ms. Smith about this but I'm gonna take a crack at the inside story as to your anger. "Ms. Smith posted or sent a list of horses that could be saved. You found a horse you liked as a flip horse or already presold." - your "opinion"?  NO, and slander.  The deal went south and you got angry and posted this. The only way that this can't be hearsay is if you are the transacting party. So do you buy under one name and sell under another?

If you take the reread your posts you will see how it jumps from you to the person who bought the horse for you but told her to file a report but it wasn't your idea but you encourage her about a horse bought in PA but 12 hours later it was in Texas (American airlines no doubt). The issue you find yourself in is you appear on paper to be angry and dishonest. My guess is Ms. Smith rep will go untarnished from this while you will go on to be unstable.".  Have no idea what you are talking about when you mentioned American Airlines?, where do I appear to be unstable?  Anger is 100% Lorraine's.  I am just stating facts. You don't believe them?  OK, that's your choice.  Lorraine denies them?  OK, that's her choice too.
Have to say though.  Lorraine, you claim to have known me for 8-9 years?  I would like to know how and when we met.., you claim I get horses for free and flip them, I owe you and a rescue money explain those to me and include any proof


I have not said I would file suit you and Lorraine have, but go ahead I welcome the opportunity to go public with all this.
All the character assassinations are done for now...
I am glad the horse has a home, just sorry for how everything went down.  Have a Happy Holiday
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#10 Consumer Comment

I welcome confrontation

AUTHOR: Ken K - (United States of America)

I see Ms. Smith is equally confused by your lane changes. I welcome any slander suit you feel is needed. As you can reread I stated it was my feeling of the circumstances and never stated them as fact. Its called an opinion and is considered freedom of speech. I was unaware that you were trolling for a free horse. It has been my experience (opinion) that free animals tend to find the worst homes. Again someone else paid for this horse with the intention of giving it you. Ownership was never transfer from buyer to you. In addition if Ms Smith was unable to obtain ownership for the horse from the kill buyer then that adds an additional cog you would need to consider. Now just so you know me better I am self employed and the company I own does retain legal representation from a firm that hired my cousin after we were clients. I have horses myself and while I'm not a rescue I believe people have an obligation to provide every available option to their animals since they are force to live on our terms. I currently have a colt at Michigan State University who is 7 months old. He is the youngest recorded foal to have implant surgery. He will be strictly pasture sound the rest of his life but he still has a life. To date he has cost me just of $26000 dollars to fix a $1000 pleasure horse. My point being, in my opinion, you are pissed over a horse you nothing invested in and if the accounts of your farm are true, are in no position to provide any life saving care. Yet you try to hurt someone who unselfishly tries to save as many horses as possible. Now if you feel you want to take me head on for my comments I will supply you with further info so your legal rep can contact mine and I would encourage you to do what you feel is best for you.
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#11 Author of original report

Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: Pat - (U.S.A.)

Lorraine, talk about anger management...As far as my "flipping horses" never happened never will - presold? owing people money?  pure slander!
 Ken, I stand corrected, her ethics are not what they seem....
I think you are confused.  If I bought a car on ebay and owner sold the car to someone else, I fail to see your logic.  But suffice to say, If I bought and paid for a car that was NOT delivered then sold to someone else - there would be legal issues.  How I was "injured" would not play into this - 
"Now you off on how you NEVER PAID me when I was hired to haul a horse for you.  And, you left an unpaid bill at the rescue.  Yes, I am a decent person, and sadly I should have had you fill out my hauling contract so I would not have been ripped off by YOU!  You did not even offer a penny for the fuel I burned driving all the way to Ct. let alone the time!!!"   ??      Prove it.  You called me to say the horse wouldn't load and that the horse was crazy, she never came.  If I owed anyone money why didn't anyone call, bill, or write me?  Prove all your other accusations
Are you trying to change the subject to make yourself feel better or to make me look bad?  Either way you lose.
All this anger and nastiness can actually stop.  Comments being made are totally off point and have nothing to do with what happened with the horse in question.
Lorraine, and now Ken, you are both making incredibly good cases for slander suit:-)
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#12 REBUTTAL Owner of company

what is your point Pat ????

AUTHOR: Lorraine - (United States of America)

"Sundew Saves horses pulls horses from New Holland Auction, yes, this is can be a good thing. But, recently we bought/paid for a horse that suddenly disappeared. I tried for more than 12 hours to try to schedule required medical issues and got no call back.
Ken, several comments to you.
Pat, you are all over the place and this is getting boring.

I have never done business with Lorraine Smith as a "rescue" or anything else, but have spoken to her about hauling horses and referred her to others. Over the phone she seemed like a decent/honest person. She was going to bring me a rescued horse from CT, (you mean you hired me to haul for you and you never paid me a penny???? AND you left a bill at the rescue in Ct???) but the horse wouldn't load, Lorraine had told me that the horse was crazy (I told you the horse would not load, and was rearing and I did not want KM to get hurt, or myself) and asked me if I knew anything about her, which I did not. She offered that she would not take her not knowing more. This information I really appreciated, this is my "dealing" with her.

None of what happened with this missing horse is heresay as I have been directly involved from the beginning. I offered to home(here is where you change your story for the third time...(YOU FILED A REPORT STATING I RIPPED YOU OFF---NOW YOU ARE SAYING YOU OFFERED A HOME IF SOMEONE ELSE PAID?????) the horse if someone would bail him. Someone stepped up and bailed him. During the process of getting a hauler I(OUR FACEBOOK PAGE CLEARLY STATES THE PROCEDURE FOR BAILING A HORSE AND NO, YOU DO NOT GET THE COGGINS) needed to get a health certificate and coggins before I could schedule anything - this is when the horse disappeared, (YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO THE FB PAGE AND REFRESH YOU MEMORY, THE HORSES WERE LOADED TO SLAUGHTER BY MISTAKE, THEY DID NOT DISAPPER-GET THE FACTS!!! ---AND FOR THE THIRD TIME, THERE WERE TWO APPS AND THE OTHER ONE GOT PULLED WHEN WE FOUND THEM, NOT YOU-AND THE FALSE STOLEN HORSE REPORT ALMOST GOT THIS HORSE KILLED. THE LEGAL OWNER AND SEVERAL OTHERS DIRECTLY INVOLVED - BEHIND THE SCENES BROUGHT HIM TO SAFETY.)and the ONLY horse to not be recovered. In fact the paypal receipt clearly says bought by ### for Pat Kitchen.

You refer to her as a rescue, but if you know her at all she denies being a rescue. (KEN KNOWS I HAVE A RESCUE IN NJ, REG. WITH NJ- THE FACEBOOK PAGE IS NOT THE SAME PAT....FOCUS!!!!)Saying the this is a "community effort"
If/when a person pays for something that suddenly disappears, (PER BARBARA'S FACEBOOK DEMANDS TO BE REFUNDED, THE MASSACHUSSETS POLICE CALLINIG ME WITH HER ACCUSATIONS OF ME BEING A SCAM,. SHE WAS PROMPTLY REFUNDED) no one knows for sure who took the horse(s) or where they were going.(WRONG AGAIN, WE ALL KNEW AND REPORTED WHO HAD THE HORSES AND WHERE THEY WERE GOING) The horse was missing and presumed stolen.(A HORSE CAN'T BE STOLEN WHEN IT WAS WITH THE LEGAL OWNER-BARBARA HAVE A BILL OF SALE????) Absolutely a police report should be filed. Did I talked the buyer into filing a police report? No, but I did recommend it. (BAD CHOICE...AND ILLEGAL-AND NO QUESTION HORSES WILL DIE IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE OF THAT....NO ONE WILL WANT TO HELP US AGAIN. )

If this was not the situation then the police would have not done anything. (REALLY, WHERE IS THE ARREST REPORT????)

No one at any time accused Lorraine of stealing or questioned her ethics. (I GUESS YOU WERE ON THE PHONE CALL WITH THE MASSACHUSSETS POLICE...???) We were trying to find a missing horse. As soon as the police report was filed information was sent out of the computer and fortunately the horse was found in a feed lot in TExas. Had he not been found as soon as he was he would never have been found. If Lorraine (or someone in her group) fund the horse, why did the Sheriffs department in Texas email me a picture of the horse and ask me if I could identify him? I was able to match up his markings. (SORRY PAT...WE HAD CONTACT WITH THE DRIVER OF THE TRUCK HE WAS ON..LONG BEFORE YOU WERE COUNTING SPOTS.)

As a person directly involved I have every right to file a complaint. A COMPLAINT???? FOR WHAT???? I DID NOTHING WRONG, AND EVERYTHING RIGHT. AND, AM VERY HAPPY TO REPORT THIS BEAUTIFUL HORSE IS IN A WONDERFUL HOME, RIGHT WHERE HE WAS MEANT TO BE.

Please explain to me any "slanderous" comments? THREE WORDS-RIP OFF REPORT But I can tell you there have been many said against me. NO SURPRISE THERE If she would like to sue me (DEFINATELY TALKING TO AN ATTORNEY)...bring it on! I have all the pictures, recorded conversations and huge papertrail

Also for the record...my sister-in-law is a partner in corporate law firm in Washington DC I would suggest that you speak to and read up on the entire situation before making an "uninformed" opinionJust 1 more comment. SunDews Saves is a PA organization. Not NJ and not a company YOU SEEM TO BE ENDLESSLY CONFUSED PAT KITCHEN - - I AM NO WHERE NEAR PA.

You very first statement is a bold face lie.  Now you off on how you NEVER PAID me when I was hired to haul a horse for you.  And, you left an unpaid bill at the rescue.  Yes, I am a decent person, and sadly I should have had you fill out my hauling contract so I would not have been ripped off by YOU!  You did not even offer a penny for the fuel I burned driving all the way to Ct. let alone the time!!! 

As for the Leopard App. you have changed your story, again.  Now you are saying you would like a free horse if someone would pay his bail.   And, again, you lie.  Our facebook page cleaerly states the procedure for bail, coggins, health certificate.  give the have no clue what was happening behind the scenes because the LEGAL owner, another dealer, and 3 others in 3 different states were working BEHIND the scenes.  And, for the thrid time, Barbara's FALSE stolen horse report almost got this horse KILLED. 
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#13 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Pick a Story

AUTHOR: Ken K - (United States of America)

You say that no one is accusing Ms. Smith of Stealing or her ethics but....you filed this rip off report? Aren't you in fact conceding you were ripped off by Ms. Smith by the very fact you posted this? Isn't a thief someone with poor ethics? The fact your name is on the receipt makes you nothing more then a foot note in someone's accounting ledger. If I were to buy my best friend Bob a shiny new car on ebay and then I called the dealer and he said he sold it Bob may be pissed but unless I'm his legal representative he has no leg to stand on and if me as the buyer is pissed then I would have to prove how I was damaged. I wouldn't be able to sue the dealer for fail to perform because we didn't have a written contract. While you could get sued for slander because you are making allegations against Ms. Smith directly who is a NJ resident and is directly afforded protection by a NJ corporation she is sole shareholder that is used to deal with slaughter horse rescue not her affiliations with a PA based group. I still haven't spoken to Ms. Smith about this but I'm gonna take a crack at the inside story as to your anger. Ms. Smith posted or sent a list of horses that could be saved. You found a horse you liked as a flip horse or already presold. The deal went south and you got angry and posted this. The only way that this can't be hearsay is if you are the transacting party. So do you buy under one name and sell under another? If you take the reread your posts you will see how it jumps from you to the person who bought the horse for you but told her to file a report but it wasn't your idea but you encourage her about a horse bought in PA but 12 hours later it was in Texas (American airlines no doubt). The issue you find yourself in is you appear on paper to be angry and dishonest. My guess is Ms. Smith rep will go untarnished from this while you will go on to be unstable.
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#14 Author of original report

Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: Pat - (U.S.A.)

Just 1 more comment.  SunDews Saves is a PA organization.  Not NJ and not a company
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#15 Author of original report

Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: Pat - (U.S.A.)

Ken, several comments to you.

I have never done business with Lorraine Smith as a "rescue" or anything else, but have spoken to her about hauling horses and referred her to others.  Over the phone she seemed like a decent/honest person.  She was going to bring me a rescued horse from CT, but the horse wouldn't load, Lorraine had told me that the horse was crazy and asked me if I knew anything about her, which I did not.  She offered that she would not take her not knowing more.  This information I really appreciated, this is my "dealing" with her.

None of what happened with this missing horse is heresay as I have been directly involved from the beginning.  I offered to home the horse if someone would bail him.  Someone stepped up and bailed him.  During the process of getting a hauler I needed to get a health certificate and coggins before I could schedule anything - this is when the horse disappeared, and the ONLY horse to not be recovered.  In fact the paypal receipt clearly says bought by ### for Pat Kitchen.

You refer to her as a rescue, but if you know her at all  she denies being a rescue.  Saying the this is a "community effort"  
If/when a person pays for something that suddenly disappears, no one knows for sure who took the horse(s) or where they were going.  The horse was missing and presumed stolen.  Absolutely a police report should be filed.  Did I talked the buyer into filing a police report?  No, but I did recommend it.  

If this was not the situation then the police would have not done anything.
 
No one at any time accused Lorraine of stealing or questioned her ethics.  We were trying to find a missing horse.  As soon as the police report was filed information was sent out of the computer and fortunately the horse was found in a feed lot in TExas.  Had he not been found as soon as he was he would never have been found.  If Lorraine (or someone in her group) fund the horse, why did the Sheriffs department in Texas email me a picture of the horse and ask me if I could identify him?  I was able to match up his markings.

As a person directly involved I have every right to file a complaint.

Please explain to me any "slanderous" comments?  But I can tell you there have been many said against me.  If she would like to sue me...bring it on!  I have all the pictures, recorded conversations and huge papertrail

Also for the record...my sister-in-law is a partner in corporate law firm in Washington DC I would suggest that you speak to and read up on the entire situation before making an "uninformed" opinion

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#16 Consumer Comment

Not Sure How You Fit In

AUTHOR: Ken K - (United States of America)

As I said I am not intimate with the complete story. I guess my questions would be these.

1. Why would you post a Ripoff complaint for a service that you neither requested of her or paid for. Shouldn't the actual customer or client file this if she felt ripped off? 2. If the money was returned how did someone get ripped off? 3. If you have recommended her on several occasion why is it now you take issue with her credentials as a buyer. ( I've only know her to work with a buyer for rescue not claim to be one.) 4. As a rescue isn't it her right to place horses with those she deems the best suited? 5. Wouldn't you get angry if someone implied you were a thief or dishonest by filing a police report against you ? Wouldn't you get things back to square one and terminate further relations? It appears you are angry about a horse you were not buying and the talked the buyer into filing a police report that she did not want to because she still wanted the horse but when Ms Smith was rightly offended by what I'm sure she would consider a questioning of her ethics you filed a Ripoff complaint about her and her company for something you had nothing to do with. It seems like you are attempting to settle a score for what you perceive as someone being wronged but where is the Ripoff? Just a side note that I'm sure you will take with a grain of salt but the courts would call this slanderous as you would not be a plaintiff or defendant in anything you have alleged. You are making allegations based on hearsay about a New Jersey based company over the internet which would give the company the right to sue you for slander in New Jersey. I checked with my corporate attorney/ cousin. I have no idea what Ms. Smith would do as I haven't spoke to her in a while.
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#17 Author of original report

Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: Pat - (U.S.A.)

Ken, I agree with you in that this seems out of character.  I have never met Lorraine and have referred alot of people to her.  But in this in stance she was, in my opinion wrong.  Someone bought and paid for a horse that disappeared.  After the person who bailed the horse filed a police report (which I encouraged as no one knew where or with who (that we were told) the horse was.  Lorraine got mad because of the police report, refunded the money and when Lady tried to send it back Lorraine was mad and would not accept it, and sold it to someone else.  Had she not filed the police report the horse would not have been found as quickly as he was.  The person who paid bail only wanted the horse back, but  :(  Which is why I filed this report.  The whole situation was handled very poorly.
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#18 Consumer Comment

Out Of Character

AUTHOR: Ken K - (United States of America)

While I have no intimate knowledge of this event I can say this is very much out of character for Ms. Smith. Having been the owner of an equine transportation company myself I first met Ms. Smith when I hauled her beloved Rocky from Oregon to New Jersey. I've gotten to know her over the years and if I were to post a complaint about her it would be that she cares to much. She has transformed her personal farm into a rescue and has always charged far to little for the service she provides. Knowing personally she has to be loosing on a lot of these rescue hauls. My point being she has never had a desire to make a profit before so double selling a horse seems unrealistic not to mention she has always been a very ethical woman since I've known her. My personal experience has also been that there are a lot of Cheap, Dishonest, and Vindictive horse people and that is why I stopped hauling horses and started hauling freight. I personally find it difficult to see any validity in this complaint but I bet Ms. Smith is starting to empathize with my horse people horror stories. For those that read this I would trust her to her to acquire and transport a rescue on my behalf implicitly.
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#19 General Comment

Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: noneya - (United States of America)

Ms. Kitchen Not knowing you from adam I cannot say anything about you personally except I have known people who have dealt with your accusations and comments before and I must admit there is a similarity here!

I myself have dealt with Sundew saves and can not say anything negative about my experience with there group.

Very professional women who are trying to make a difference for the horse and not for there own pockets.

You have alot of nerve stating about taking money's then returning it. Be glad you received it back, now maybe you can build a real run in shed instead of the damn shack with plywood walls that are held up by 2x4's shoved in the dirt and your tarp roof!

Get things correct prior to throwing stones. That group is trying to make a difference for the horse. What are you doing besides making waves?

Are the horses your objective here or is this for your own personal satisfaction?
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#20 Author of original report

Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: Pat - (U.S.A.)

you are correct, you don't know me or anything about my run in sheds.  But even an idiot would know that if the roof of my run in was a tarp it would not still be up there.  IS there a tarp, yes under the corrugated metal roofing.  Walls are not plywood.  Do your "homework" before you respond....Lorraine has never been here nor have you.  Speaking to Lorraine has typically been on the phone or PM, until now have never had a problem or bad word with/about her and have in fact referred many people to her.    If Lorraine found the horse, can you tell me why Sheriff's department sent me a picture of him to identify him?
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#21 General Comment

Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: noneya - (United States of America)

Ms. Kitchen Not knowing you from adam I cannot say anything about you personally except I have known people who have dealt with your accusations and comments before and I must admit there is a similarity here!

I myself have dealt with Sundew saves and can not say anything negative about my experience with there group.

Very professional women who are trying to make a difference for the horse and not for there own pockets.

You have alot of nerve stating about taking money's then returning it. Be glad you received it back, now maybe you can build a real run in shed instead of the damn shack with plywood walls that are held up by 2x4's shoved in the dirt and your tarp roof!

Get things correct prior to throwing stones. That group is trying to make a difference for the horse. What are you doing besides making waves?

Are the horses your objective here or is this for your own personal satisfaction?
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#22 Author of original report

Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: Pat - (U.S.A.)

I have also cut and pasted this entire report and sent it to MAss Police Department.
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#23 Author of original report

Lorraine Smith at Sundew Saves

AUTHOR: Pat - (U.S.A.)

Please, have your attorney contact me.  PLEASE!  I have never met you Lorraine and have the proof about your not bringing the horse from CT because you could not load her and your telling me she was crazy and you advised me not to take her (which I appreciated).  I recorded this and subsequent conversations/emails.  Including the most recent when you were hauling and had a bad back, I recommended you get a TENS unit and sent you the link.  

I have never boarded a horse with anyone, nor do I buy or sell horses.  I cannot wait to hear from your attorney!!
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#24 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Pat Kitchen is a liar

AUTHOR: Lorraine - (United States of America)

Pat Kitchen, your fraudulent and slanderous remarks have been forwarded to my attorney.  Your very first sentence is a lie.  "SunDew Saves Horses" is a group effort, providing a venue for horses purchased by a kill buyer" to have the opportunity to be bailed from a kill pen and given a home.  "WE" are not "pulling" from auction.  Incredibly, your second sentence is a blatant lie.  "We" bought a horse?  Pat, why are you lying in the very first 2 sentences?  YOU did not buy ANY horse from this effort.  After your several posts with someone who was looking for a "trail horse" - YOU posted and begged for "someone" to BUY a leopard appaloosa we had posted from a kill pen.  This "person" in Massachusets - who knows nothing about your history of getting free horses and selling them, who knows nothing about your plywood shed, with a tarp for a roof, and an incredibly dangerous fence surrounding an area not even suitable for a large dog or MY experience with you, who you hired to haul a horse from a rescue in Ct.  The very rescue that YOU abandoned a horse at, with an unpaid bill AND left and unpaid bill for a transport with ME.  This person in Massachusets knows you only through FaceBook, and incredibly, was going to hand this horse off to you.  Your very next sentence does not even make sense!!!!   """" I tried for more than 12 hours to try to schedule required medical issues and got no call back. """"  ???  The following sentences are equally blatant lies.  Interestingly enough you did not say "who" you talked to...because another one of your lies was forward to me in an email.  Sadly, this horse and others were mistakenly loaded and shipped.  And, of course you also leave out that this group of horses was from a kill buyer's lot I was asked to help with.  NOT the kill buyer I was already working with.  I had no contact with this kill buyer, nor had his phone number.  When I made the call to HIS contact, the same person who had asked me to HELP network these horses, I learned of the mistake.  Where EXACTLY was this horse said to be lame?????  Please provide PROOF???  Who are you accusing of your next disgusting statement?  Clearly grounds for a law suit.  Equally disgusting is your next sentence, of which you are totally lying about since the police officer, and I have his message saved in my phone, from Massachusets, and perhaps he would like to know about your public false statements, when Barbara had HIM call ME and ASK ME to REFUND HER money, which I DID while he was ON THE PHONE.  AND the FRADULENT STOLEN HORSE REPORT almost got this horse killed, and the transporter is still considering a law suit against Barbara.  AND you could not be farther from the truth, the few people directly involved who in FACT saved this horse from certain death.   And no, Pat,  the money was refunded, when Barbara initially demanded IN WRITING on the FaceBook Page, and with the police department, and I promptly complied.  Pat, you need to read your last sentence, even YOU contradict YOURSELF.   So since your ego's are bruised, you did not get  a free horse to sell, the people involved with me,  saving horses, once again, accomplished exactly what we set out to do.  Get the group of horses that were shipped by mistake,  - saved - and in the best homes possible.  And thankfully, this horse who cheated death several times got the BEST home he could have.  Thank GOD!!!
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