• Report: #13586

Complaint Review: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

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  • Submitted: Fri, February 08, 2002
  • Updated: Tue, September 11, 2012

  • Reported By:Vancouver WA
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
nationwide Nationwide U.S.A.

False claims by Mormons ..just one to get you started

*General Comment: Taught to not be judgmental

*Consumer Comment: A Word from Joseph Smith, From Kolob

*Consumer Comment: I had the impression.....

*Consumer Comment: God does care, people don't

*Consumer Comment: God does care, people don't

*Consumer Comment: God does care, people don't

*UPDATE Employee: DO YOU ALL HAVE A LIFE

*Consumer Comment: false claims by mormons

*Consumer Comment: Jim nailed it right on the cross!

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: questioning human suffering IS ultimate cop-out

*Consumer Comment: A question for all who posted here

*Consumer Comment: About missionaries

*Consumer Comment: You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky?

*Consumer Comment: You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky?

*Consumer Comment: You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky?

*Consumer Comment: You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky?

*Consumer Suggestion: To Father Ferdinand

*Consumer Comment: Cherie: You, daughter, are need of the highest form of correction!

*Consumer Comment: About Mormons

*Consumer Comment: being a christian means believing in christ

*Consumer Comment: being a christian means believing in christ

*Consumer Comment: The bible

*Consumer Comment: Talk about lies

*Consumer Suggestion: Ingorance is not Bliss, but to be a part of the Mormon chuch itis.

*Consumer Comment: Its more than just in the name - Mormons arent a rip off

*Consumer Suggestion: Instructions On How To Get Into Heaven!!!

*Consumer Suggestion: your wrong about that

*Consumer Comment: The definition of Christianity is a follower of Christ.

*Consumer Suggestion: Just a smile to offer

*Consumer Comment: neither are christians

*UPDATE Employee: Some People Are Too Caught Up With Contention

*Consumer Comment: I am a christian and i was bothered by the Native American woman who said that christians believed her ancestors were banned to hell

*Consumer Comment: lighten up and stop trying to deconstruct

*Consumer Comment: This is wrong place to be talking religion

*Consumer Comment: mormon lies

*Consumer Suggestion: NO RAIN HERE! ..government and business corruption related

*Consumer Suggestion: NO RAIN HERE! ..government and business corruption related

*Consumer Suggestion: NO RAIN HERE! ..government and business corruption related

*Consumer Comment: Allow me to rain on the parade...

*Consumer Comment: Standing up to criticism...

*Consumer Suggestion: boring ..I left the Mormon Church two years ago because all I ever heard about was Joseph Smith.

*Consumer Comment: Taste and see that the Lord is good

*Consumer Comment: Fools And Religion

*Consumer Comment: My two cense

*UPDATE Employee: Where do you people come up with this stuff?

*UPDATE Employee: Whatever...

*Consumer Comment: On my believing everything the Mormons have to say

*Consumer Comment: It is so a contradiction. Do your research, instead of believing everything the church has to say.

*Consumer Comment: A couple things...

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Find something more constructive to do with your time lynn

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: I know all to well how the Mormans react

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If you are looking at this site maybe it is because you had two Mormons come to your door and you are wondering about their religion. Please note just a few of their false claims. The biggest being that they say they are Christians.

A Christian, by defenition, would be a follower of Christ. A Christian, by tradition, is one who holds to the main doctrines of the faith.

First, a Mormon will, by all means, claim to be a follower of Christ (it's even in their LONG name). In reality, they trust more in their current leader (they claim he is a modern day prophet), Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. If those three guys say anything different than Christ (which they do) than Christ looses.

Second, a Mormon does not believe in the tri-unity (aka "Trinity") of God. This is a basic, foundational CHRISTIAN belief and is a big reason that I feel they misrepresent themselves by calling themselves Christian (not to mention the non-virgin birth and other non-Christian doctrine they hold to).

This is hardly the forum to "debate" on the right or wrong of Mormonism but if you are searching and they call you I hope this summation helps: Mormons are NOT Christians.

Lynn
Vancouver, Washington

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/08/2002 12:00 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/The-Church-of-Jesus-Christ-of-Latter-Day-Saints/nationwide/False-claims-by-Mormons-just-one-to-get-you-started-13586. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 General Comment

Taught to not be judgmental

AUTHOR: rrivas715 - (United States of America)

For being taught by your "church" to not be judgmental, there are a great many judgmental statements.  In fact some of the most cruel and judgmental people I know are of the mormon faith.   They cover their judgment by adding "I love them all equally" or "I love them and don't judge, but..."  It's absolutely ridiculous.
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#2 Consumer Comment

A Word from Joseph Smith, From Kolob

AUTHOR: Joe Smith Jr. (False Prophet) - (U.S.A.)

Hello All my faithful followers, I know it has not been easy following me, many of you have had to endure tremendous persecution on behalf of me and my teachings. I have now come forth from the Grave, to you my brotheren to proclaim the truth, to all the nations. I Joseph Smith your leader address my people, my faithful flock, for i have revelations for you:

It was all made up, the angel moroni was in on it with me. There was no Golden Plates, No First Vision, No special Revelation. I was an ignorant farm boy, my dad taught me how to be a glass-looker. The book of mormon was really written by an old baptist preacher known as "Old Come to Pass." I stole the manuscript and turned it into the book of mormon. I did have to make some changes though, I added sections of the book of Isiah, and I messed up on the place of Jesus's birth, I had it as Juruselam, it should have read Bethleham. Oh well, I am allowed to make mistakes. Look at all the other mistakes I made in an original version of the 1830 Book of Mormon. In fact some of what I wrote contradicts me and does not make sense. Like Shiz getting his head cut off and still breathing.

There was no golden plates, the witnesses were in on it with me, if you research any of them you will notice that they recounted their testimony of me my brotheren. That is because the Book of Mormon is not true, it is not a another testament of Jesus Christ. I was a dreamer of dreams, I had revelations that flowed off the tip of my tongue. But by my own works Brotheren you can see that I did not know one word of Egyptian like I claimed to have. Look at the translation of the Book of Abraham, I didn't get one word correct. One Egyptian word I translated looks like a backwards "e," I translated it into many different words, but in Egyptian it only means pool, or body of water. The Papyri was really called the Book of Breathings, of course I didn't find this out till I died that day, when the mob came to persecute me. Actuall they were really pissed off at me. We had a gun battle and I died with a 6 shooter in my hands, I was out numbered, but not a marytar.

Also my flock needs to remember, how could I restore the true church when it never died? How can I do the restoration when I still teach that 3 Nephites (3Nephi, Ch28) that were apostles of Christ were given everlasting life, until Jesus Returns. They can not be wondering the earth and at the same time have a falling away. Also why would John the baptist have to come down and give me and Hiram the Priesthood when the three Nephites are here. They have the Priesthood don't they? No they are not invisible, I can see them.

The teaching that my saints can become gods, was taken from the idea of Lucifer tempting Eve and Adam in the garden of eden. The serpent told them they would be like gods. It was a lie. Just like me, I lied to you. I am sorry I led you astray my flock. You now have a choice, continue to follow my false teachings, or go find the Lord. There's Gods way or my way (False). Yes I know I have taught you to feel that if you are being persecuted that it just goes to show you are right. I was lying to you when I taught you that.

Leave my Church for it is false. I now have to go back to Hades, for I am in great torment, please send Lazarus to cool the tip of my tongue................

Good Bye my flock.........................................Remember you can still trust me!
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#3 Consumer Comment

I had the impression.....

AUTHOR: Matthew - (U.S.A.)

.....that the purpose of this website was for consumers to explain how they were ripped off financially in an effort to seek advice and information from readers. It seems there are alot of people complaining about how they were cheated on by ex-boyfriends/girlfriends, picked on by office bullies, wronged by drivers who cut them off in heavy traffic, and now complaints against the beliefs of various religions????

Like what was said above...are there not more appropriate websites for topics of this nature?
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#4 Consumer Comment

God does care, people don't

AUTHOR: Tressa - (U.S.A.)

God is not 'causing' the suffering we see today. It is HUMANS. Yes, indirectly, humans are responsible for natural disasters, God just ALLOWS them until he does away with wicked people once and for all. High gas prices, the s**t that comes from smoke stacks of oil refineries, nuclear refineries to give us cancer--are all MANMADE concoctions!! This is all for their greedy profit!

Now, why does God ALLOW these things? He is proving a simple point: HE is the Universal Sovereign and no human is. He has to allow humans to do their dirty work to prove that they are unfit to rule themselves.
Don't worry! He's going to do away with false religion that's "organized" because it is blasphemy to his name!
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#5 Consumer Comment

God does care, people don't

AUTHOR: Tressa - (U.S.A.)

God is not 'causing' the suffering we see today. It is HUMANS. Yes, indirectly, humans are responsible for natural disasters, God just ALLOWS them until he does away with wicked people once and for all. High gas prices, the s**t that comes from smoke stacks of oil refineries, nuclear refineries to give us cancer--are all MANMADE concoctions!! This is all for their greedy profit!

Now, why does God ALLOW these things? He is proving a simple point: HE is the Universal Sovereign and no human is. He has to allow humans to do their dirty work to prove that they are unfit to rule themselves.
Don't worry! He's going to do away with false religion that's "organized" because it is blasphemy to his name!
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#6 Consumer Comment

God does care, people don't

AUTHOR: Tressa - (U.S.A.)

God is not 'causing' the suffering we see today. It is HUMANS. Yes, indirectly, humans are responsible for natural disasters, God just ALLOWS them until he does away with wicked people once and for all. High gas prices, the s**t that comes from smoke stacks of oil refineries, nuclear refineries to give us cancer--are all MANMADE concoctions!! This is all for their greedy profit!

Now, why does God ALLOW these things? He is proving a simple point: HE is the Universal Sovereign and no human is. He has to allow humans to do their dirty work to prove that they are unfit to rule themselves.
Don't worry! He's going to do away with false religion that's "organized" because it is blasphemy to his name!
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#7 UPDATE Employee

DO YOU ALL HAVE A LIFE

AUTHOR: Jorge - (U.S.A.)

ANY ONE WHO BASHES ANOTHER'S RELIGION HAS ISSUES AND CAN NOT CALL THEMSELVES A TRUE CHRISTIAN THE GREAT THING ABOUT THE USA WE ARE ALL FREE TO BELIEVE WHAT WE WANT AND I FILL SORRY FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HURT BY THE PEOPLE IN THE LDS CHURCH BUT THERE A PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT HAVE BEEN HURT BUY ANY RELIGION SO QUITE YOUR CRYING AND I LEAVE YOU WITH THESE PROFOUND WORDS OF ADVISE THAT MY LORD AND SAVIOR SAID

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even the publicans the same?

And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do not even the publicans so?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
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#8 Consumer Comment

false claims by mormons

AUTHOR: Lori - (U.S.A.)

First of all, Utah should change it's state motto to "Come on vacation, leave on probation." Utah's judicial system is a joke. If you are not mormon then you get to go to jail for someone who is. This happened to my husband. Long before we met he was living in Florida and dating a girl who's family lived in Logan. They went to Utah to visit her grand parents. While my husband was playing golf with her grandfather she was "shopping" with her grandmother. Every day she would come home with expensive jewelry and say her grandmother bought it for her. Well,they get back to Florida, their car breaks down and a police officer arrives to assist them. In the process he runs their I.D. and it comes back with a warrant for their arrests. It turns out she was bouncing checks for all the stuff grandma had supposedly bought her. Since they had a joint checking account he was brought up on charges too even though his signature was not on one of those bounced checks and he didn't know she was writing them. Since her grandfather was a high up member of the church and big shot at Morton Thiekol she got probation. He not being mormon did 2 years at the Utah prison in Draper. Yes, he did her jail time. Does this sound like justice? I don't think so. He now has a record that will follow him forever. Pryor to this he didn't even have as much as a speeding ticket on his record. Mormons, what a joke!!!!!!!
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#9 Consumer Comment

Jim nailed it right on the cross!

AUTHOR: Curt - (U.S.A.)

Jim you said it all! I have to agree 100% or more.
And Tim, Jim is not MAD..he is just making a point! Religion and god are responsible for so many atrocities throughout history. Killing in the name of religion is something I don't understand. I think the recent movie constantine and the plot of lucifer having a bet with god is hilarious and makes a good point...if there is a god he doesn't care, but I'll go with the most obvious, which is there isn't one or maybe there are many. Also how is all this crap about religion a rip-off? You people need to quit wasting bandwith on this trivial topic!
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#10 REBUTTAL Individual responds

questioning human suffering IS ultimate cop-out

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

For person in Alabama:

If there is no g(G)od, what are you so mad about? If someone could not see this g(G)od, they would probably ask somebody to help them to see him/her/it, right? And if there is no final authority on what is good/bad, wouldn't the tsunami actually be the best thing that happened to the residents of war-torn Indonesia??? Surely a dirt nap beats getting shot at every day, right?
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#11 Consumer Comment

A question for all who posted here

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I have a troubling question

We have police, firemen,forest rangers,soldiers, sailors, and marines.

We have coast guard, customs agents, border patrol, etc.

We have a number of other "Police" type agencies, treasury, CIA, FBI. (Name your own favorite acronym)

All other countries have these same or similar agencies as well.

My question is "Why?"

If god exists then a problem arises, "Why do we have to have all those above mentioned agencies to do what is essentially god's work"
(As described by the tens of thousands of preachers, ministers, priests, mullahs, popes, imams, etc present in the world and buisy telling us what "God's Word" really is?)

Another problem is best illustrated by the recent tidal wave, according to all teachings god watches over us.

But he does not, (I heard someone say all those folks were evil, a plain clear lie)

So there is a huge problem with the teachings that "God" is a helpful, caring being?

So I have a dilemma with the teachings.

Simply put, "God" is not doing his job.

This brings me to the conclusion that there is NO such being, and the reason I think so is that i'd rather believe it's all a hoax, than believe that "God" simply does not give a s**t about us.

I find it much easier to believe that the whole concept is just a made up series of stories, than to believe that this "Good, gracious, caring, helpful, all powerful, judgmental, petty, uncaring mass murderer exists at all. Doesn't give a d**n, and slaughters millions through tidal waves, hurricanes, forest fires, monsoons, landslides, and other events called "Acts of God"

Further that allows, and does absolutely nothing to prevent such things as AIDS, ebola, smallpox (we eradicated it, not god) and the events such as the slaughter of multi millions by genocide, war, etc.

Anyone who wishes to respond, and can do so without parroting the standard brainwashing phrases such as "God's will is unknown" is welcome to do so.

I myself believe the old saying,
"Actions speak louder than words"

And the actions state that there is no "Guiding Being" (Name your own)or that if there is, he simply doesn't give a s**t about us humans.
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#12 Consumer Comment

About missionaries

AUTHOR: Gabriel - (Canada)

Some missionaries give Free English class to non English speakings and I think it's great. I'm not a member of this church and those teachers didn't force me to become member. Thanks for the missionaries who gave me English class.
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#13 Consumer Comment

You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky?

AUTHOR: Al - (U.S.A.)

You people are so gullible, religion is bullshit. You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky? I've been on airplanes recently and I haven't seen any. Every organized religion is just a scam. I had the Mormons visit my house and they even stopped me while I walked past them near the grocer. They focus on recruitment and tithing rather than any meaningful spirituality. It's all a big Ponzi scheme!
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#14 Consumer Comment

You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky?

AUTHOR: Al - (U.S.A.)

You people are so gullible, religion is bullshit. You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky? I've been on airplanes recently and I haven't seen any. Every organized religion is just a scam. I had the Mormons visit my house and they even stopped me while I walked past them near the grocer. They focus on recruitment and tithing rather than any meaningful spirituality. It's all a big Ponzi scheme!
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#15 Consumer Comment

You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky?

AUTHOR: Al - (U.S.A.)

You people are so gullible, religion is bullshit. You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky? I've been on airplanes recently and I haven't seen any. Every organized religion is just a scam. I had the Mormons visit my house and they even stopped me while I walked past them near the grocer. They focus on recruitment and tithing rather than any meaningful spirituality. It's all a big Ponzi scheme!
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#16 Consumer Comment

You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky?

AUTHOR: Al - (U.S.A.)

You people are so gullible, religion is bullshit. You think that some ancient Babylonian war god floats around in the sky? I've been on airplanes recently and I haven't seen any. Every organized religion is just a scam. I had the Mormons visit my house and they even stopped me while I walked past them near the grocer. They focus on recruitment and tithing rather than any meaningful spirituality. It's all a big Ponzi scheme!
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#17 Consumer Suggestion

To Father Ferdinand

AUTHOR: Pookey - (U.S.A.)

This is in response to your answer I am also a Roman Catholic and been since the age of four. You misinterpeted my rebuttal, I am not a cultist, so you claim, I was just giving some facts out there to let people know that the Mormon Church is not what it seems so I am not knocking nobody religion, everyone should be able to worship as they please but my biggest turnoff is how certain groups take the Bible, Koran, and the Torah and used it for their personal beliefs that is wrong. If the Bible say "Thou shalt not kill" why do we have wars!!! If the Bible said "Thou shalt not Steal" why did we steal land from the American Indians, and didn't we have slavery here in the United States. Can you answer that????"
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#18 Consumer Comment

Cherie: You, daughter, are need of the highest form of correction!

AUTHOR: Father Ferdinand - (U.S.A.)

I am not Mormon, but Roman Catholic. I am also a Jesuit and we are seekers and expositors of truth. I have researched the question you respond to and there is NO such canonical reference in the Mormon liturgy.

For that matter, since you are likely some protestant sect, you are also a member of a cult. Since you raised the subject, I will take on your exegetic statements... One must examine the denotation, the pure sense of the word, "cult." It is an organization with a highly central personality, well-developed system of beliefs and strict adherence to its tenets.

Now, I am sure you are saying, "aha, Joe Smith and that word of wisdom thing" Consider this, each anathematic regression from the Holy Catholic Church was also led by a central personality; Baptist - Roger Williams, Calvinists - John Calvin, Lutherans - Martin Luther, etc. Additionally, you also have your strict adherences to your church constitution. Does that make you a cultist also?

Consider one more, our Lord and Savior was botn a Jew, was schooled as a Rabbi and preached in the synagogues. That is where he gained his following. He then taught the disciples new laws and promised them treasures in heaven if they would obey him. Does that make all Christians Jewish cultist? I think it does by your reasoning.
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#19 Consumer Comment

About Mormons

AUTHOR: Cherie - (U.S.A.)

If the Mormons really say they are Christians they should read the read Bible, God does not discriminate or tell people how to worship, He just want people to honor his name and not to use it in vain. The Mormons never tell their present follwers that in the earlier version of their Bible they considered the black race as a devil race, but when you asked them that they are in total denial. How I learned this information is from a book title "The Real Truth of the Mormon Religion." In my opinion they a cult as opposed to a religious enitity. God loves every one regardless of race.
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#20 Consumer Comment

being a christian means believing in christ

AUTHOR: Peggy - (U.S.A.)

to whom it may concern,

hi my name is peggy i am 15 years old and i have been going to the mormon church all my life. i have seen so many things happen that i believe christ helped out in. my mom quit smoking so she could join the church. yes mormons belive in christ. I would know. there are millions of pictures of him in our churches. and in our temples. In my religion we are taught not to judge or make fun of any religion or person.

yes my church believes that GOD, JESUS, AND THE HOLY GHOST ARE THREE DIFERENT PEOPLE. and that is what i belive. think of jesus's prayer he did in the woods bye him self. all through he kept on refering to god as his father. do you ever call your self mom or dad? But i dont want to critisize you if believe that they are the same person im sure you have your reasons.

I looked up in the webster's dictionary that chritian means believing in christ teachings. and my church believes that. I also believe that Gordon B. Hinkley is the phrophet of god today. It says all in the bible that god will send more phrophets to teach us. and it also says that god will send more teachings. so i also believe in the book of mormon. also back to god and jesus and the holy ghost being three diferent people.

jesus says all through the bible that god is his father. and god says that jesus is his son. and i know he couldn't of been lieng because god also said that he has to follow his own commandments or he can't be god and thou shall not lie is one of his commandments. i believe that joseph smith saw the father and the son while neiling in the forest. i believe that book of mormon is another testiment of jesus christ. i believe that jesus will come again. And i beileve in the mormon religion.

And i beileve that god wants us to love one another and i do i love all of you everyone nomader what there religion wether you are a buddist, a catholic, a jewish person who you choose to worship your coach cussion. god gave you free will. and he wants you to choose your path but yes he would want it to be the right one.

god loves each and everyone of us nomatter what we do and i believe that he wants us to choose the right. and i believe that the bible is true.
and that the book of mormon is true. the reason why it is called the book of mormon is because mormon translated it.

it wasn't writen by mormon. go wrote it.
god bless you all.

i say these things in the name of jesus christ, amen.

love always,
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#21 Consumer Comment

being a christian means believing in christ

AUTHOR: Peggy - (U.S.A.)

to whom it may concern,

hi my name is peggy i am 15 years old and i have been going to the mormon church all my life. i have seen so many things happen that i believe christ helped out in. my mom quit smoking so she could join the church. yes mormons belive in christ. I would know. there are millions of pictures of him in our churches. and in our temples.

In my religion we are taught not to judge or make fun of any religion or person. yes my church believes that GOD, JESUS, AND THE HOLY GHOST ARE THREE DIFERENT PEOPLE. and that is what i belive. think of jesus's prayer he did in the woods bye him self. all through he kept on refering to god as his father. do you ever call your self mom or dad? But i dont want to critisize you if believe that they are the same person im sure you have your reasons.

I looked up in the webster's dictionary that chritian means believing in christ teachings. and my church believes that. I also believe that Gordon B. Hinkley is the phrophet of god today. It says all in the bible that god will send more phrophets to teach us. and it also says that god will send more teachings. so i also believe in the book of mormon. also back to god and jesus and the holy ghost being three diferent people.

jesus says all through the bible that god is his father. and god says that jesus is his son. and i know he couldn't of been lieng because god also said that he has to follow his own commandments or he can't be god and thou shall not lie is one of his commandments. i believe that joseph smith saw the father and the son while neiling in the forest. i believe that book of mormon is another testiment of jesus christ. i believe that jesus will come again. And i beileve in the mormon religion.

And i beileve that god wants us to love one another and i do i love all of you everyone nomader what there religion wether you are a buddist, a catholic, a jewish person who you choose to worship your coach cussion. god gave you free will. and he wants you to choose your path but yes he would want it to be the right one.

god loves each and everyone of us nomatter what we do and i believe that he wants us to choose the right. and i believe that the bible is true.
and that the book of mormon is true. the reason why it is called the book of mormon is because mormon translated it.

it wasn't writen by mormon. go wrote it.
god bless you all.

i say these things in the name of jesus christ, amen.

love always,
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#22 Consumer Comment

The bible

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

While Im not necessarily supporting Sean, the fact is that there are bible versions that cant be considered 'the word of god'.

NIV for example, has 66,000 words that even an language expert in translations will tell you that were not in previous versions and actually changed the meanins of various verses.

There are verses in NIV that have the exact opposite meaning of the original KJ bible.

In one example, it speaks of gods support for a particular action, but in the NIV it says that one will be damned for that action.

Anyway, in my own home, I do not allow any bible that is other than KJ original.

I wont even allow modern variations.
Because man has done badly on translations and anybody who cant read KJ, needs to go back to school to learn to read.
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#23 Consumer Comment

Talk about lies

AUTHOR: Sean - (U.S.A.)

Joe, the uninformed

1.The Bible does not say not to read from other books, it says not to add to or take away from it. Unfortunately since it says this repeatedly in different books with books coming after them and also in the old testament if you take that as an absolute then the New testament is null and void. Something I am sure not even you would agree with.

2.We do not believe, nor ever have believed that the Book of Mormon is a new and true Bible, in fact in the front of the Book of Mormon it states that it is ANOTHER testament of Jesus Christ it would appear to come secondary to the Bible. Indeed the scriptures our church produces often are called "quads" because they contain four books of scripture, the very first of which is the Bible. First, before even the Book of Mormon.

3.You obviously don't know the story of Joseph Smith very well at all. It doesn't change. There were multiple visitations at the different ages you mention which included visits by all the personages you stated at different times.

4.The Bible does keep changing to attract more people. How many "versions" of the bible are there? I have heard of it being translated by many churches into "non-bible speak" for those that have difficulty understanding it. I also know that the trinity originally wasn't in the Bible at all. It was a man created concept to attract pagans by giving them a god similar to theirs to worship. Based completely on mystery and blind belief rather than any kind of logic or interpretation from Bible scriptures. When Jesus was baptised by John the Baptist the Sprit of God appeared in the form of a dove and that God looked down and was pleased with His son. On the cross Christ looked to heaven and said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Do you believe him to be suffering from multiple personalities? He could have told the men He forgave them Himself, a much more powerful act as He hung there. But on earth judgement was not His, it was His father's. I have personally read bibles from other religions that claim that there were lots of other people on earth for Adam and Eve's children to marry. Don't even try saying the Bible doesn't change to attract more people, there are versions in print specifically designed to different groups, women, men, children, teens, etc. Each with changes to attract the target audience. To my knowledge there are very few changes to the Book of Mormon, not because it is better, but because it hasn't been around as long to be translated a hundred thousand times. With each translation of a book there will be changes, it is unavoidable. That is why we use the Bible we do, and do not have it re-translated. The King James Version is the oldest Bible available in print that is common to be found.

5.There are other gods out there, the Bible clearly talks about other gods and commands us not to worship them. Claiming that they are false gods, not that they don't exist, and that the Christian God, which we worship is the only God we should pray to, which we follow.

6.We have always considered ourselves Christians. Which is easily proven by the fact that Joseph Smith our prophet who restored the gospel to the earth (started the church as we know it today) translated a large part of Isiah to clarify some confusing versus.

7.I know the symbols you speak of and they are not satanic. I would tell you what they mean because they are holy and symbolize our commitment to God, but that would break a covenant I made with God to not reveal these things to those who are not worthy. And it is not up to me to decide who is worthy, it is up to God and His representatives.

8.The things that are done in the temple are done vicariously for the dead. If you don't believe in vicarious works then I guess you aren't a Christian, because Christ took upon Himself to atone for our sins, and gave His life as a sacrifice for sin for US. This is vicarious work, and an example given by the Master.

9.Yes, we do pray to the same God that the Bible teaches about. We do not pray to Joseph Smith, or Moroni, or anyone else, we pray to God, who we often call Heavenly Father, an apt name since in the Bible it states He created us all.

10.The prophet is chosen by a vote of righteous men sitting on a counsel after fasting and prayer to divine who God wants to lead the church. I wouldn't so much say that he is able to write scripture as he is to give revelation for modern day. I am sure you find that horrible but you didn't mind when the prophets in the bible did it, and God is the same today, tomorrow and always, right?

We have never at any time considered any member of the church to be perfect or a god. In fact we emphasize that every member; from a member of a congregation to the prophet himself is "just a man". Though some are called of God to serve.

11.I have been in the temple and there are no fake knives we hold to our throats. I don't know where you got that idea. It is a blatant lie. We do believe in the sealing of a family, hence a man and wife in their marriage for eternity. You are right the Bible does talk about no marriage in heaven. The words are that there will be no giving or receiving in marriage in heaven. This means no marriages will be performed in heaven. It never says that the family is not eternal. If we are His children and he wants us to rejoin Him in heaven it would appear that He wants His family together forever. Why would he deny us the same thing?

12.Oh yes, the Mormon faith as you call it is very real. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is here to stay and growing in numbers every day. (Real is not a relative term to whether you believe as we believe or not)

Yes, we only get one chance in life. I will follow Him, and I will dedicate my life to being His disciple. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Every day I ask Him to lead me and guide me through my life. That I can be like Him. And this my dear misguided brother is what defines a Christian. Not a belief in the Trinity, or in saying a silly little "sinner's prayer" and expecting God to do the rest. We are perfected in God. We are mortal and flawed and therefore cannot be saved except through Christ. Combine our best efforts to follow Him in all things with His grace and we will be exalted.

Janet
Thank you for your input but you didn't read all that is needed to understand entering the kingdom of God the full subject is as follows:

John 3:3-5

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Sprit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus Christ is the Savior but He doesn't offer salvation through saying some words. He offers it through baptism by immersion, even as He Himself set the example by being baptised in this manner by John the Baptist even though he was without sin. He offers it through receiving the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit if you will.

My beliefs are not based on ignorance. Never have I been told not to question anything that puzzled me. I have built my testimony of Jesus Christ through research and through administration to my personally by His spirit. I will continue to persue a better understanding of Him because I think I will always have questions, until I can ask Him face to face. I have questions, but no doubts. I believe in Him.
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#24 Consumer Suggestion

Ingorance is not Bliss, but to be a part of the Mormon chuch itis.

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

Everyone has heard the saying,
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and even acts like a duck, itis a duck.
But there are many out there that have all the information they need and more and still remain ignorant.

The Mormon Religion is False!
I was not raised in a religous family. However i wanted religion in my life. So i researched the religions i found most appealing and finally came to the conclusion that being a christian is the best way to go.

THere are three main religions right now in American. 1) Christianity 2) Mormonism 3) Catholics
All three of these religions study from the same book. But itis the Mormon beliefe that completely contradicts the Bible.
What does the Bible say, not to study from any other doctrine but this one. What is the Book of Mormon. Well the Mormon faith believes that itis a newer version, the true Bible.
Well in fact itis the made up one.
Joseph Smith founded the book of Mormon. Well how peopel might ask. Well actually if someone were to research how he found the golden plates one would find that the story has changed several times. First he was 18, then 13, then 16. First it was an angle that spoke to him, then Jesus, then two angles.
Itis fact that the Book Of Mormon has changed several times since it making.

Facts to Know

. The Mormon faith believes that the book of Mormon is the true Doctrin. FACT: the book of Mormon was originally attempted by Joseph Smith to be published as a novel.FACT: THe Book of Mormon is continuously changing to attracted more people as times change, would it be weird if the bible kept changing its story to attract more people? YES!
. FACT: THE book of Mormon says JESUS is not God. THe bible says in RED WRITING, ( the words that Jesus spoke) I am the beginning the end Alpha and Omega, i am the Almighty! JESUS IS GOD. Mormons do not believe in the trenity that the bible teaches.
Mormon faith believes that God has a wife and that they had Jesus and Saitin as children.
THe bible teaches that Saitin was created as an angle, never gods child. WHAT GOD ARE THE MORMONS PRAYING TO?????
.Jospeh Smith said in his orignial writings that GOd was once man, died in the third stage of heaven got his own planet and got to populate that planet with his wife. THe Mormon religion believes anyone can become a God if they live their life right. They believe there are more GODs out there!!!! they are not christians!
. FACT: the mormon religion used to never call themselves christians, in fact they felt it was very wrong to do so, it was not until their church was not longer growing and the christian movement that they started calling themselves christians to attract more people.
FACT: In the temple in san diego itis ritual to undress into robes with symbols on them (research the symbols, you will find they are ancient satanic symbols)
FACT: in the temple in san diego itis ritual to bless bodies with oils, baptise the dead with different people, change names to ancient hebrew names. THESE ARE CULT RITUALS!!!! WAKE UP
FACT: The mormon faith does not pray to the same GOD that the bible teaches about.
FACT: the president of the Mormon church is chosen out of hierarchy and is named by "PEOPLE" as a prophet and is allowed to write scripture.
What does the bible tech? that there will be false prophets, false gods, people out their claiming to be god!!!!! THAT IS THE MORMON CHURCH
FACT: The temples seal themselves in marriage, in family taken oaths with fake knives held to their necks. THE BIBLE SAYS THERE WILL BE NO MARRIAGE IN HEAVEN! THESE ARE EARTHLY WANTS< the mormon church is built upon earthly wants. the earth was given to saitin the mormon churhc is ran not By GOD itis ran by something else that thrives on ignorance, earthly wants and desires.

THE MORMON FAITH IS NOT REAl, if the members of the mormon church were to do their own research and stop listening to the lies they are told they will realize the truth. THey will realize that they are wrong and hopefully realize they should think twice because you only get a chance at life once, Hell or heaven is awaiting, ask yourself where you want to go.

I am not saying these things to offend people. i am saying these things to hopefully save some people from lies.
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#25 Consumer Comment

Its more than just in the name - Mormons arent a rip off

AUTHOR: Rick - (U.S.A.)

"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remissions of their sins." (2 Nephi 25:26)

This is how the "Mormons" define being Christian. We are not a rip off. Our faith is in Christ and no other. We regard Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the rest of the Latter day Prophets the same way Christians reguard the Peter, Paul and Stephen or the way the Jews reguard Moses and Isaiah.

Thanks for reading.
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#26 Consumer Suggestion

Instructions On How To Get Into Heaven!!!

AUTHOR: Janet - (U.S.A.)

I am not a Mormon, nor with any "organized religion"---just a believer in Jesus Christ (Yeshua). I found this post through the daily ripoffs of the day and have been fascinated by all of these reads. Not a one have really listed the ONLY MAIN requirement as to how to get into heaven and this is:

John 3:3 Jesus answered (talking to Nicodemus) and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"

John 3:16---"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (KJV)

All of John 3 is an excellent read. Thank you for your time.
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#27 Consumer Suggestion

your wrong about that

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

Wrong about 'flavor' of the faith.

It is not my view or flavor, it is their own flavor that betrays or shows what they truely beilieve.

A few of these 'socalled' christians in past history considered it ok to kill nonchristians and to rape them because they were not 'of god'.

When a person proscribes to a belief yet contradicts by virtue of actions all of some of what that belief is, then they are not true to that belief.

Ie; Hypocrisy.

I also know of many who are very true to their faith and are 'true' christians.

For most of my inlaws, their consider history and what other peoples faith were to be important aspect of their own.

Opinion only below:
Faith of one person should never be the focus or the foundation of anothers faith ever.

Faith should always be personal and only based on faith of self and faith in that belief in god/etc,...

My moms neighbor considers Jeffersons' faith to be a critical factor of her own faith, which is crazy because that means her faith is based on a lie that she herself chooses to believe.

Ie; that Jefferson was Christian when many letters from him say otherwise..

Again, its not my flavor but the individuals own beliefs that I hold them to.

Which is why I have many friends of different faiths, and tend to dump friends who wont associate with others of different faiths.

I dumped a friend of 15 years because he refused to be at a party for the sole reason that the other person was Jewish. In this case it was bigotry, but he claimed to be christian, but never showed it in his actions in life.
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#28 Consumer Comment

The definition of Christianity is a follower of Christ.

AUTHOR: Emily - (U.S.A.)

It is that simple. It doesn't mean that you can rip apart people's beliefs and decide that they aren't Christian and you are because they are not your flavor of Christian. Catholics are Christian, just because they pray to Mary or their saints I do not consider them less. All of the Christian denominations that believe or do not believe the trinity I do not differentiate between. I consider them all Christian. And the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is Christian, no matter what you say, it doesn't matter... his name is in the name of our church.

I see a lot of people saying, "whoa lookee here, there are some bad Mormons in the world". Yeah, there are. There are some bad people in every religion in the world, without exception. My ex-husband (yes *gasp* I am a divorced Mormon) was a monster. He abused me and my children. And is currently lieing about it to remain a temple recommend holder. But he is one. Just as all the people you are complaining about are just one...

There is a lot of things I could address in people's response to my beliefs. But I see clearly now how things are. No one here really wants a rational discussion about theology. They want to rip apart my belief structure. And a church who has done a lot of good for many people, even if you are not some of them. Just as many churches do a lot of good for different people...

In America there is freedom of religion for everyone except us. The only reason we try to share our religion is to bring people to the truth, to share with them, usually out of love. I would love for my best friend to be a member of my church. I would love to sit with her and worship the same beliefs that I know deep down in my soul are true. There are many people I would rejoice over being able to worship with. I would think that any of you enjoy having the people you love share your beliefs with you. But she is still my best friend, even though she isn't a member of my church. And my friends are still my friends, even though they belong to every different religion in the world. I respect their beliefs, I never try to pull them down. Even though I am friends with a Wiccan and a pagen of the Celtic persuasion. Most "Christians" would consider them sinners of the worst order and avoid them. I am not saying that some Mormons are different. All I know is that this one is.

Mellisa *sigh* everything is about sex to you isn't it? You are absolutely fixated on sex to the exclusion of all else. No the spanking wasn't a kinky suggestion, grow up.

Jeff, good for you that you were bothered by the fact that you believe my ancestors are going to hell by your beliefs. It disturbs me too. I would only assume that it matches yours since I haven't talked doctrine with you. Many churches claim that "Jesus will make himself known, even if through nature". That is not likely, a flower doesn't tell you about the supreme sacrifice he made. A tree doesn't tell you about how to accept him into your life as your guide and your Head, now does it? The Bible does say a way will be provided, and we have it... but that is another discussion and you do not share that belief. You will only say that there is a way, you won't accept that maybe we know what it is. By your fundamental beliefs my ancestors, the ancestors of the Asians, the Africans, and many... many native people of different continents will go to hell. To me you provide no answers, only more questions. I have found my answers. I do not belong to my religion out of ignorance, I belong because my questions are answered... all of them. I do not believe everyone should belong to my church. I believe some people could not be happy in my church. I never claimed it was for everyone I only claimed it was for me... and that it is true. This is what we call a testimony.. or possibly witnessing in terms you might use. It doesn't really matter.

Jared thank you, for reminding me that even when the stones are thrown, even when it is only us that suffer for being different, that anger gets us no where. I am one of a small group living in our age that had an attempt on my life made purely for my beliefs. I was actually told that if I left my church, if I denied the truth, I would be left alone. I am fierce in my beliefs, because they burn inside me like a white hot flame.

I also know that Jesus was the son of God, and that He died for our sins. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and restored the true gospel to the earth. I know that God is the same forever, and that his modern day prophet leads my church into the last days. I know that long ago my Savior came across the sea to my people to teach us of Him, and that the Book of Mormon is a record of those ancestors. I know that the revelation given by the prophets after the restoration is of God. And I will follow without waiting for it to be proven scientifically, as the dangers of tobacco and alcohol were proven. I know that my Redeemer lives. I know he gave us our agency to follow the path we would chose. And I use my agency to follow Him. I know who I am.

I will post no more entries here, it has been a waste of my time. Find peace in your relationship with Him.
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#29 Consumer Suggestion

Just a smile to offer

AUTHOR: Smiles - (U.S.A.)

After reading all of this, I just have to add my two cents. I am not a religious person, I do believe in a higher entity.. God, and I have words with him/her time to time ( one sided conversations I might add) and let him/her know what I am thinking and feeling.

After reading all of this I can make some clear observations. Religion has been the basis for years of dispute and even hatred towards others either of non faith or opposite faiths. I don't think this was ever the intention of the creator, nor does he/she want to see any more of it. There is no more one in religion, in fact there are so many I cant even keep track.

Religion has become a status, there are the Mormons, the Protestants, the Baptists, Catholics, Muslims and the list goes one. How many Gods are there? last time I knew there was only one and everyone seems to forget that big picture. The war of faith is on and the people of the religions are fueling the fire.

Why fight? Why say I am wrong and you are right? When is the next prophet coming? When is the next coming? Where is the love? We all have so many questions and no one seems to take the time to think for themselves. Let me rephrase that, not everyone thinks for themselves. The greatest gift bestowed to us living beings, is the gift of choice. The majority claim that they are making a choice and yes that is true. But at what point does that choice start to turn into something less?

I wake up in the morning, and see many things. I see rain, sun, the birds, the trees, I see life. There is no need to interpret any of those and I do not need to go to a book and tell my why they exist. I am not a religion hater and I do my best not to judge anyone, and I am not perfect nor will I ever claim to be. I know there will be a day, a day of judgment.

I have thought about this day lying facing towards the heavens many times. I have asked myself, "what is right? What is wrong? How am I leading my life?" I never get an answer. Why? because I know in my heart.

Let me ask many of you something. When you get up in the morning and take that first step outside for the start of the new day what do you do? complain about the day? the morning? the weather? or whatever. I look up and smile, there is a world of wonder created for us to explore, to learn, to love.

I have tried the churches, listened with an open mind and heart to people of all faiths. I cant even begin to tell you who interpreted the bible right, nor pass judgment on people who do. I just wonder how many people miss the big picture because they can not get past what is here on earth. This home of ours in only temporary and your body an egg so to say. When you hatch, will you truly understand everything? or will you be bound by the words of others. Church and religions are for the numbers. People who think and believe alike to gather in strength, but I think it has all came down to just that, the numbers.

Now, don't get me wrong, about my last statement, there is strength in numbers and it is beneficial if the numbers are used for the greater good. You know, I will go out today and say some good things to people and help them. What I will do for them is not tell them they are right, or wrong, but just smile. I will smile and let them know that I am just there to show them that I thought about them. I will give something to them, something that does not seem to come to easily this day, a smile.

As I walk down the street today, down the hall, into the malls, or look across the room, I will offer a smile. If you are one of those people who choose to accept it, I hope it made you feel good for a time, hopefully all day long. If you are one of those people who judge me and shun me as some weirdo then I hope the humor you get from feeling like that makes you smile. I personally don't care either way, as long as my smile does something for you. If it does not, then I might feel sad, but I will save your smile for some one else then.

I know I am rambling on and some people may just mock me, I don't not care either way. I believe in science, I believe in God and I believe in choice. I chose to ramble here today, not to make anyone believe anything, not tell anyone that I they are wrong, and not to disagree with anyone. I will go outside and look at the sun as it peaks through the rain clouds to smile at me and In return I will smile back.

Thank you all for listening to my rambling. I am a simple person with hope for the world just like the rest of you. I may not be as ambitious, but I am only human. I know many of you feel the need to share your blessings with many, but many just need a smile or a hug if appropriate. I would like to offer a suggestion though. Why not just give out a smile or two without any strings, no words, no suggestions, just a smile from your heart. God wants us to be happy :)
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#30 Consumer Comment

neither are christians

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

Um...agreed but most christians are not christians either.

I rarely meet christians who are holding to the rules of their faith either.

I even have family members who are 'christian' who are in the midst of divorce (not yet divorced) and have been dating for months.

But then since I am not a believer I wont judge like most christians do.
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#31 UPDATE Employee

Some People Are Too Caught Up With Contention

AUTHOR: Jared - (U.S.A.)

Christ said: "He that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another."

It is pretty apparent that Jesus was correct by reading and feeling the anger, criticism and hate back and forth on this page.

I happen to be LDS and also one of those missionaries that perhaps knocked on Lynn's door in Vancouver, WA. I served my mission in that area for two years. While I was there I met many people like Lynn. I may have even met her. That was absolutely not the highlight of my experience in Washington. I do not dispute anything that others have taught, even if I don't agree. Why? Because that allows "the spirit of contention" to take over, not the Spirit of God.

All I have to offer is what I have learned through personal study... not through listening to some disgruntled individual that hasn't sought it out through prayer themselves.

I know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He died and suffered for each and every person that has lived, now lives and ever will live. I know that there is a living prophet on the earth today. His name is Gordon Hinckley. He speaks words of wisdom and truth. Joseph Smith was a prophet as well. He had courage and faith to be instructed by God and restore the lost truths and authority from ages before. The Book of Mormon is a true record of scripture written by ancient prophets that lived on the American continent.

These things make me happy. They make me feel good inside. When I pray and ask God if they are true, he lets me know by the fruits of the spirit, just as He promised he would in Galatians 5.

While I knocked on people's doors in Vancouver, WA. These are the only things I ever shared with others. Why wouldn't I? If God gave you a knowledge of things that would bring you eternal happiness and lead to your salvation, wouldn't you want others to know about it... or would you condemn yourself by being selfish?

God lives and loves us.
If you truly want Him to tell you if these things are true or not, maybe you should actually listen to the two guys in suits the next time they come around. If you will pray and ask God, He'll let you know. (James 1:5-6)
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#32 Consumer Comment

I am a christian and i was bothered by the Native American woman who said that christians believed her ancestors were banned to hell

AUTHOR: Jeff - (U.S.A.)

I was in a college English class and we had read a book on snake handling in the south. a discussion came up about the Mormon faith because my teacher was doing a piece on it. i decided to look up Kolob because i found it "interesting".

I am a christian and i was bothered by the Native American woman who said that christians believed her ancestors were banned to hell for never knowing about christ. this is untrue. speaking for christians, we believe that God will not d**n those who have never learned of him. for in his eyes they are still children.
on the trinity isue...

God can do anything if you think about it(which yes you can interpret things) He created the heavens and the Earth, my question is why couldnt he turn into a dove and still be one being made of three parts. for all i know god could turn me into a purple flying pig and make all the people of the world look at me as a normal everyday even.
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#33 Consumer Comment

lighten up and stop trying to deconstruct

AUTHOR: James - (U.S.A.)

in order to accept mormonism you have to accept that the bible is only one of many tomes left to teach us. the book of mormon is reportedly another. and in time, when man is ready, another will be available.

im not lds but i have read both the bible and book of mormon deeply many times and i find that the book of mormon actually compliments many vague passages in the bible.

according to the mormons its not something you can just accept based on principle but in your heart. you have to speak to god through prayer and if you are answered, well then there is your answer!

please dont try to mormon bash me, im not really even much of a christian much less an lds missionary or something like that. just an avid reader.
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#34 Consumer Comment

This is wrong place to be talking religion

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

This is not the proper place to be talking about the relative merits of one faith over another.

Fact, is depending on which side of the fence u are on, even christianity can be cultish by some legit people.

Take it elsewhere, this is a consumer board.

Only if that mormon person sells you fake material is it relavant.

For me, any material from a christian that is not KJ or older is fake material.

Ie; all new translations after KJ are manmade fake translations.
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#35 Consumer Comment

mormon lies

AUTHOR: Eric - (U.S.A.)

this rebuttal is for Melissa. thank god you were able to get out of that cult of mormonism. i agree that many religions have been involved in scandal and cruelty, however, two wrongs do not make a right! i just finished reading "under the banner of heaven". what an interesting book! i almost laughed when reading about joseph smith and his ridiculous claims about getting messages from god while looking at "peep stones" in a hat. lets face it, the chances of "isrealites" coming to america and leaving the "golden plates" in new york are about as credible as finding the abominable snowman! how is it that joseph smith was able to discover all of this stuff and no scientist or doctor has ever been able to find any proof of any "golden plates" or semitic people in america(until jews began settling here in the 1600s). i feel sorry for any woman who belongs to this religion. you have no real freedom and are just seen as a babymaker. who could put up with that! its all about money and power, which do not appear to be very "spiritual" values. wake up and smell the coffee!
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#36 Consumer Suggestion

NO RAIN HERE! ..government and business corruption related

AUTHOR: Jerry - (U.S.A.)

To Andrew of Victoria, British Columbia:

You are obviously a casual reader and not familiar with this venue. The issues of government and business corruption in Mesa, Arizona, by those who purport to be stalwart members of the Mormon Church, is a central issue to the creation of this Website.

Not trying to single you out, but I went to Victoria, British Columbia - ONCE. It was night and I walked its streets. My impression was the openness of the prostitution and the exceeding beauty of its prostitutes. Don't you think that it would be short-sided if I judged Victoria by that one experience?

After all, I am sure there ARE ugly prostitutes in Victoria.
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#37 Consumer Suggestion

NO RAIN HERE! ..government and business corruption related

AUTHOR: Jerry - (U.S.A.)

To Andrew of Victoria, British Columbia:

You are obviously a casual reader and not familiar with this venue. The issues of government and business corruption in Mesa, Arizona, by those who purport to be stalwart members of the Mormon Church, is a central issue to the creation of this Website.

Not trying to single you out, but I went to Victoria, British Columbia - ONCE. It was night and I walked its streets. My impression was the openness of the prostitution and the exceeding beauty of its prostitutes. Don't you think that it would be short-sided if I judged Victoria by that one experience?

After all, I am sure there ARE ugly prostitutes in Victoria.
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#38 Consumer Suggestion

NO RAIN HERE! ..government and business corruption related

AUTHOR: Jerry - (U.S.A.)

To Andrew of Victoria, British Columbia:

You are obviously a casual reader and not familiar with this venue. The issues of government and business corruption in Mesa, Arizona, by those who purport to be stalwart members of the Mormon Church, is a central issue to the creation of this Website.

Not trying to single you out, but I went to Victoria, British Columbia - ONCE. It was night and I walked its streets. My impression was the openness of the prostitution and the exceeding beauty of its prostitutes. Don't you think that it would be short-sided if I judged Victoria by that one experience?

After all, I am sure there ARE ugly prostitutes in Victoria.
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#39 Consumer Comment

Allow me to rain on the parade...

AUTHOR: Andrew - (Canada)

Rip-Off Report was created with the protection of the consumer in mind, and although I cannot reliably speak for the creators of this site, I imagine that the discussion of wholly spiritual matters does not sit comfortably in their definition of consumer protection. Web sites, including forums such as this, are judged on their quality of relevant content. While this conversation is certainly interesting, for the purposes of consumer protection it merely dilutes the existing content and wastes bandwidth. There are better venues for such dialogue.

Thanks.
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#40 Consumer Comment

Standing up to criticism...

AUTHOR: Lee - (U.S.A.)

I am responding to Melissa from Saint Louis...

You stated: "If a religion is true, it should be able to stand up to criticism, and it cannot."

If that is true, why has The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints grown from an original number of seven members to over Ten Million world-wide if it can't stand up to criticism?

Just curious..
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#41 Consumer Suggestion

boring ..I left the Mormon Church two years ago because all I ever heard about was Joseph Smith.

AUTHOR: Melissa - (U.S.A.)

Emily, are you offering to give me a spanking? I didn't know there were Mormies that swing both ways? Not that I'm interested.

I haven't been back to this website in 4 months, mostly because I have a life. And yet I see you have posted twice, back to back, citing the same boring, predictable, avoidant rhetoric that not only signifies you as a TBM, but also another brainwashed church person. Shouldn't you be busy giving birth to spirit children? After all, according to some founding fathers of Mormonism, women that aren't having babies aren't really useful to the church.
Now, before you get your garments in a bunch, I'd like to say that if there is anything I have learned in the past few years, is that religion often comes BETWEEN man and God. God gives us a brain, but he also gives us a heart. Our brain allows gives us the semblance of control over our heart.

My heart tells me that not only the Mormon church, but many churches have become hives of hypocrasy.

I left the Mormon Church two years ago because all I ever heard about was Joseph Smith. You can lie, but I know, because I went. My adopted Mom is Mormon, and she sometimes mentions this in passing. I myself might've heard about Jesus Christ on Christmas and Easter. That disgusts me.I have other reasons, but not because I couldn't keep the commandments, are anything like that. I know that's what they must be telling you.

I often think about what Jesus Christ must feel about this world of selfish, greedy, people on this earth today. My heart says that he is heartbroken. Though unlike the Mormons, I don't claim to recieve revelation from Christ, I do know a lot about him through the bible.
We live in a truly wicked world today. I'm talking about the absence of a charitable, loving, brotherly spirit in people today. If the spirit is there, it's only on Wednesdays and Mondays.

Then there are the people that commit true idol worship. Their homes, cars, bank accounts are more important than the creator themselves.
For example, I look at the Mormon church, more intent on building those garishly expensive secret temples. We should be using our excess to help the poor, the desolate, and the desperate. Not ourselves. I don't think Christianity should be self-serving.

Nothing about the bible is secret. It's there for you to read and ponder.
The temples are places of worship where you can't get in unless you've paid money. Why? You can't get a recommend without it, of course, unless you are on disability or get a waiver.
Christ would not turn away a person because they couldn't pay. The poor and the ill were beloved by Christ, as were the children.

And while you want to sit there and argue about mormon beliefs, and maybe tell a little story about your tithing, I believe you should really think about what you are saying.
There's the moneychangers honey. Right in the temple. Could you go through if you forgot your temple garments and didn't have money to rent them? Probably not.

Religion is every day becoming more and more about MONEY POWER and GREED! Don't believe me? Turn on TBN. Forget to pay your tithes. It's not about obedience. Your obedience is between you and God. Man is not fit to judge you. It's about money.
I decided that I will never again let a church come between me and God. I am a very spiritual person, but will never again adopt a bunch of man-made rules and rituals. I am much happier since I left the church. I feel free, and at peace. I never felt peace in Mormonism or Oneness Pentecostalism.

I left the church two years ago, have written 4 letters and have had 6 sets of missionaries and 3 sets of visiting home teachers on my doorstep. I've never sent them away having yelled at them, screamed at them or slammed my door in their face.

I told them that the Mormon Church isn't true, was founded on lies by a horny little polygamist, and that I don't believe in any of the fundamental mormon beliefs. I told them "God Bless You" and that they were in my prayers. Not quite the hallmark of a mormonhater, is it?
If a religion is true, it should be able to stand up to criticism, and it cannot.
That is the truth, and it cannot be argued.
Every day, artifacts are being found that validate the Bible. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the Book of Mormon.
It is for some people, but not for me. And while I believe your intentions in regards to relationship with God is important, I also believe you should discern what is true and what is not. The Bible is a complete and true works. Indeed, scripture warns that anyone that adds to or takes away from it shall be damned. It didn't make an exception for Mormons.

Christ is in us. We are the church. Why are we trying to please people who are only interested in a bottom line?

Why do many people scoff at religion? Because there are so many hyprocrites. Because there is so much greed. It is sad.

I won't argue with you. The truth is inside you, in your heart and in the Bible. Read that..and then come back. Not with something from D and C, not the Pearl of Great Price or the Journal of Discourses. The Bible.
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#42 Consumer Comment

Taste and see that the Lord is good

AUTHOR: Jerry - (U.S.A.)

Steven - Danbury, Connecticut

Dear Steven,

I know of a group of travelers whos plain crashed in the Amazon rain forest many years ago. It was a Jumbo Jet carrying approximately 275 passages + crew. The majority of them survived the crash but the plain was totaled, the radio beyond repair.

Weeks went by and the group finally decided to leave the wreckage and look for civilization. They spent their mornings hunting, their afternoons resting, and evenings on the move. Months passed and after many trials, and loses they had not even come upon a native, much less civilization.

It so happened that they found on the way a berry that grew plentifully in that region. This berry was sweet and the favorite of most of the group. Unannounced to them the berries carried an unknown poison. One of the twelve Doctors of the group stumbled upon this new poison.

Well it so happened that the Doctors of the group, all but two specialists in one area or another, could not agree on just how poisonous the plant was, and one said it wasnt poisonous at all.

For weeks the debate raged. Some stopped eating them, others decided that it was unimportant, after all they werent dead yet. With only primitive self-made tools the doctors continued to fight over just how poisonous the berries where, and just how important it was to not eat them.

It turned out to be of secondary importance. Yet another of the doctors discovered that they had all caught a deadly virus, and the debate started all over again.

Some one in the group found a cure for this virus. But no one could agree on whether or not this was the cure because the virus worked slowly, and they did not have sufficient technology to actually study the virus up close.

Some though the virus was a myth to control the group, others though that if they avoided the marshes they frequently passed that they would not get the virus. Others tried their own remedies thinking that something was better than nothing, mainly because the cure was made of a combination of cooked plants that smelled bad, and tasted worse.

In the end only though that took the cure survived. It turned out that most of the crash survivors died because they believed that there where many was to cure a virus, or that the virus did not exist at all.

You have maid the first step. You acknowledge that there is a Creator. To say that there are many way to God is to ignore the facts.

You say Anything written..Was written by man and used by man to control others by fear of God. The Bible was penned by men but inspired by the Creator. You only need investigate a little to find this claim to be true. God says Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in Mine house, and prove Me now herewith, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. (Malachi 3:10 KJV)

If this book where created solely by men then it would be easily proven so. Yet it has been proven time and again that this one book transcends man, and even time. But dont take my word for it, look at it for your self. Please, feel free to prove me wrong, if you can.

By the way God says the same thing O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in Him. (Psalms 34:8 KJV)

If you would like to correspond with me about the Bible, Faith, and/or God my E-Address is please E-Mail me.

Thank you,
May God Richly Bless,
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#43 Consumer Comment

Fools And Religion

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Well this has been a very interesting read.
Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and more power to them, although your all fools to believe that any ONE religion is better than the next or that it is what God intended.

God sent his messengers to all people in ways that they could understand in their culture.
The basic message is the same LOVE,CARE and be KIND. Anything written..Was written by man and used by man to control others by fear of God.
Orginized Religion any of them do this.

The church of God is not a building..It's You.
If you believe in God,pick any faith,but don't let others tell you how to interpert that faith,even your own clergy... that's their interpertation.

Myself.....God is with us every day.
Live and let live and help where and when you can.

PEACE TO ALL
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#44 Consumer Comment

My two cense

AUTHOR: Jerry - (U.S.A.)

Josh - Cheyenne, Wyoming

Dear Josh,

I am glad that, even though you stumbled on to this page, you chose to read what was being said; and even responded.

I would like to challenge you to study hard, and not take what others say as truth. There are many things in the Bible that can easily be misinterpreted if you are not completely honest with yourself, and with God.

About the Trinity, and God separate as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. While the term Trinity dos not appear in scripture; the concept is.

If you are interested in finding out if Im right about this, Please, research it. Here are a few verses to get you started:

Genesis 1:26-27, Genesis 3:22, John 8:57-59, John 10:27-31,
John 14:6-9, Rev 21:5-6, Rev 22:12-1

And remember, God is not bound by the laws of this universe, He created them.

I caution you, The Truth is dangerous; people will hate you if you speak it. If you would like to correspond with me about the Bible, Faith, and/or God my E-Address is jrtjr1@hotmail.com

Tim - Grand Haven, Michigan

Dear Tim,

You start off by saying I think religion is silly, and that it is ridiculous that we let ancient mythology dictate our lives to the extent that we do. It is sad how much damage religion has done to our society and the world in general.

A couple of thoughts right off the top of my head:

1) Mythology and religion are two different thing.

a. Mythology (mih-thahl'uh-jEE)

noun: mythologies.

1. A body of myths about the origin and history of a people.
2. The study of myths.

b. Religion (rih-lihj'uhn)

noun

1. a. An organized system of beliefs and rituals centering on a supernatural being or beings.

1. b. Adherence to such a system.

2. A belief upheld or pursued with zeal and devotion.
American Heritage Electronic Dictionary TM
1989 by Houghton Mifflin Company

2) The damage to our society is indeed extensive. Christianity is responsible for bringing use things like mercy, forgiveness, selflessness, and absolute law. It was Christianity that brought about a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Christianity answers the really big questions. Why am I here? What is the meaning of life? Is there more to this life?

Please be careful, you say, Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that the father, the son etc. are one entity I will assume you have not read the entire Bible.

John 10:27-31
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. 29 My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him

In Revelation chapter twenty-one He that sat upon the throne refers to Himself as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. This is a clear reference to God the Father.

Revelation 21:5-6
5 And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And He said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

In Revelation chapter twenty-two Jesus (The Messiah) also refers to Himself as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, He, therefore is equating Himself with God the Father.

Revelation 22:12-16
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent Mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus Hebrew name Y'Shua means God my savior.

Please, if you or anyone else would like to disuse this further feel free to E-Mail me.

Thank you,
May Yah'vah Richly Bless,
Jr.

Y'shua:

(Jesus) The "Y" in Y'Shua is the blessed Name of God, "Yah" and "Shua" means "save" or salvation." Thus the Name of YShua means, "Yahvah (the eternal existing One) Saves." The blessed Name of YShua is correctly pronounced, YaShoea.

Yah'vah:

YHVH is a verbal form of the root "hvh", which is an older variant of the root "hava" which means, "to be, shall be, to exist." As this is in the future tense, it therefore means "He that causes to be, He brings into existence." If we choose the vowels of "hava" "to be" and transpose them on YHVH, the blessed Name of God becomes YaH'VaH.
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#45 UPDATE Employee

Where do you people come up with this stuff?

AUTHOR: Emily - (U.S.A.)

Okay, no Mormon church members do not believe in the Trinity as Lynn pointed out. Guess what? Not all other Christian churches do either.

We do preach from the Bible, I took a couple years of what we call "seminary" and studied the Bible cover to cover. Waking up hours before school for most of junior and senior high to study in fact.

I have never heard that Mary was not a virgin when she had Christ. Are you sure you were contacted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and not the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

To Tammy I am sorry you may never see your grandkids again. But guess what? That has to do with the fitness of their parents, it has nothing to do with Mormons. All of Utah isn't Mormon, only 60%. Sadly you also probably don't know the whole story of what your grandkids went through. Believe me if it was bad enough to cause what happened you dont' want to.

Tim thank you very much for a non-Mormon un-biased opinion.

Melissa, you are so terribly misguided and wrong. I have never heard that Jesus slept with Mary Magdalene or that he was married. I have also never heard that an angle or God "impregnated" Mary. I was taught that he made her pregnant, not that he impregnated her.

As for everything about Joseph Smith not being in the Bible that is so idiotic there are not words. Where in the Bible does it talk about the next prophet to come? It doesn't. No man knows the mind of God.

Cast not they pearls before swine... that means don't waste precious things on people who don't understand them. What use would pigs have for pearls? But if you want to think of yourself as a pig I guess that is your business...

You seem to be obsessed with sex... I have never heard any of these sexual things you are talking about. You are obviously sexually frustrated in some way.

As for all of the things that you site to support your position it is all pearls before you. I could go into each one, but why bother? You obviously can't understand them.

You love Mormons because they are your family. With all the filth you just aired I hope they toss you out on your butt. I would not rip apart my family members beliefs no matter how much they bother me.

And ending your statements with "so there" sounds like you need to be turned over someone's knee and given a good spanking like the child you are.
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#46 UPDATE Employee

Whatever...

AUTHOR: Emily - (U.S.A.)

Melissa,

You were married to a Mormon for four years? Well that explains your attack on the faith!

Bitter party of one!

Yes, we are Christian you idiots who doubt. You don't get to decide what that means and twist it by saying we aren't your "flavor" of Christian. We follow Christ... end of story... and since I don't see any postings on here attacking other churches made by Mormons I would say that we are good at following in his path. He taught not to judge, and to love everyone. It seems you need a refreasher course on Jesus Christ.

Josh, what a wonderful testimony of the gospel you have. Thank you for sharing it. Do not be dissapointed little brother, that many will attack you for your faith. To be persecuted in his name is the greatest sacrifice you can give to him save your life. As you prepare to give up all worldly things to serve Him for two years know that He loves you, as he loves us all... every one. Something people tend to forget.

I don't believe in my church being true I know. I can pass I lie detector test with my knowledge. I am a Mormon not out of ignorance, but out of knowledge, of God and his ways. You who are other join churchs who believe that my ancestors (Native Americans) will all go hell because they didn't live on the right continent at the right time to know Christ personally or to be taught by his followers. No loving Father would do this to his children. I cannot even comprehend who could believe that any father would. My beliefs in the complete hypocrisy of most other "Christian" religions remains where it belongs... inside me. I allow all other people the same freedom, "let them worship how, where and what they may." Christ never taught persecution, perhaps you Bible thumpers need to re-read it and remember that...

Find joy in your beliefs and leave us to rejoice in ours. Allow people to find the religion that is right for them. To bespoil that is to be a beacon of hate...
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#47 Consumer Comment

On my believing everything the Mormons have to say

AUTHOR: tim - (U.S.A.)

Please reread my original comments. Does it look as though I believe everything the Mormons have to say? I most certainly do not! In fact, in my opinion, the Mormons have done all they can to destroy what could be wonderful vacation opportunities in the Southwest US.

Who wants to visit somewhere where you cant't even look sideways without being harrassed by some overzealous Mormon cop, and God forbid you enjoy yourself in Utah!

Before you pass judgement on the Mormon faith, however, take a look at the history of your own religion. Every new religion goes through a "puritanical" phase where they offend the rest of the thinking world.

But what attrocities to mankind have been committed by the Mormons in such bad faith as the inquisitions (Catholics), the destruction of Native American culture (Catholics and Protestants), depraving social segregation (Hindus), large scale infanticide (Buddhists), state sanctioned genocide (jews, and yes I'm talking about the Palestinians), or condonement of widespread murder of non-belivers (muslims)?. If every religion throughout history had been relegated only to committing their attrocities in small communities, like the Mormons, the world would be a much better place to live.

On to biblical accuracy... the Bible is an entirely symbolic manuscript, yet the Mormons make a very literal interpretation of it. One Biblical passage can be read a number of ways, the Mormons have chosen to accept the most obvious and logical interpretations, such as the belief in a 3 entity godship. There are many things which the Mormons believe which are not stated in the Bible, but they do not hold any beliefs which contradict something that is in the Bible.

The problem with this is that the Mormons accept the King James Version of the Bible to be the true translation. King James was a man of many agendas, and as such commissioned a translation of the Hebrew Bible into English wherein many passages were alterred to suit the his goals. This is a historical fact, as is the fact that the concept of hell was not included in the original manuscript, and wasn't added to the Christian religion until the sixth century when it was seen as a powerful tool for social control.

We now know pretty well how the world really works and how life is possible without some mythical being pulling the strings. We know that the world is some 5 billion years old, we know that evolution is a fact because we have observed it in action (human beings today are about a foot taller then they were several centuries ago). So why hang on to an antiquated mythology that contradicts everything the universe around us has shown to be true?

Why would God create a universe which we needed to understand somewhat in order to survive, but set it up in such a way as to decieve us to how he was the one created it?

It doesn't make any sense, and I'm tired of getting "blind faith" or other non-answers in response. With much respect to everyone out there, thank you for putting up with my blasphemous rant. I welcome any constructive ideas or criticism.
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#48 Consumer Comment

It is so a contradiction. Do your research, instead of believing everything the church has to say.

AUTHOR: Melissa - (U.S.A.)

Bear with me, as I grew up in a moderately religious home (not Mormon) and happen to know a lot of scripture, etc. I also was married to a mormon for four years, and I'm very familiar with their teachings.

Mormonism does so contradict the Bible and in fact is not another Christian religion. Where in
Christianity does it state that Jesus slept with
Mary Magdalene and states that Jesus was married? I don't see that in the Bible.
Here's my favorite Mormon beliefs that they don't tell the new converts about:
God himself impregnated Mary, not an angel, see below.

Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.
I see nothing in the Bible about 3 levels of heaven. Celestial, Telestial, and Terestial.
There are moon men on Mars and they dress like Quakers. The closest planet to God's home is Kolob.
In the Bible, there is Heaven, and there is Hell.
Where in the bible does it talk about some inbred redneck having visions of some "sacred" plates? Oh, and the plates were said to be written in "reformed Egyptian", when actually, no such language has ever been known to exist.
And if you research early mormon records, there are varying accounts of the visions Joseph Smith had in his bedroom with the angels. And why aren't people told about varying accounts and other sacred church beliefs? Well, Joseph Smith said, "Let us not cast pearls before swine."
Well, at least we know what they think of us non-mormons. Oink!
The Doctrines and Covenants, another of Joseph Smiths main texts. Truth: This book had to be revised to keep from showing 3 prediction/prophecies of Joseph Smith that did not come true as he predicted. This coverup is only one of many by the "Church" to hide the truth from its members. Two years after its first printing as The Book of Commandments in 1833, it underwent 65,000 changes although the first edition was supposedly direct word-for-word revelations from God. Section 132 contains the doctrine of polygamy (marrying many women). Interestingly enough, this doctrine wasn't taught until AFTER it was becoming fairly well known that Joseph Smith was having affairs. He eventually had at least 27 wives, many of which were already married. Even I know that what he did was ADULTEROUS and that my friend, is condemned across the board.
My personal favorite: We will all be Gods someday. Isn't that a little Blasphemous? In the Garden of Eden, the snake told Adam and Eve, "you will be like Gods." Note, in the Bible it says, there is but one God, and one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ. Funny, this popular belief of the Mormons is the exact same thing that angered God in the Garden of Eden.
Mormons wrongly teach that God is not spirit but rather a flesh and bones man that is sexual, had sex with Mary to have Jesus (Doctrines of Salvation, J. F. Smith Vol 1 p 18), and has all along been creating spirits for this world by having sexual intercourse with his celestial female companion. So God, to mormons, is a sexual being!!!

1. He declared that the Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County Missouri although the bible says that out of Eden flows four rivers, one being the Euphrates, one flows into Ethiopia, and another flows into East Assyria. (Genesis 2:1014)

2. He prophecied in 1835 that Jesus Christ would return within 56 years. (History of the Church Vol 2 p 182).

3. He prophecied that at his second coming, Jesus Christ would return to Independence Missouri in spite of the bible stating "Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives which lies before Jerusalem on the east" (Zechariah 14:34).

4. He prophecied that both a city and a temple were to be built in western Missouri before his death. (Doctrines and Covenants 84:15, 31). Neither were built before his death and even now have still yet to be built.

6. He prophecied "In a few years the government will be overthrown and wasted" (History of the Church Vol 15 p 394).
Joseph Smith died not as a martyr, but in a gun battle in which he fired a number of shots. He was in jail at the time, under arrest for having ordered the destruction of a Nauvoo newspaper which dared to print an exposure (which was true) of his secret sexual liaisons. At that time he had announced his candidacy for the presidency of the United States, set up a secret government, and secretly had himself crowned "King of the Kingdom of God."

I myself love the Mormon people, if only because they are members of my family. Yes, mormonism is infilterating everything, quite like a plague. That church already runs Utah, and Mesa Arizona, and they are rapidly descending apon non Englis speaking countries and converting these people who can't even say, "Our father, " in English. Yet, I feel sorry for them. I remember many a day sitting in church during General Conference, bored to tears, listening to one person after another, no doubt with a burning bosem, say, "I know this church is true," with so much conviction it was heartbreaking. It seemed like they were not allowed one single, original thought. They all sounded alike. Oh, and I equate their hymns with a death march.

I know about the lies of the church, because I did my research. I didn't go to these
mormon-hater groups. I actually studied the Book of Mormon and compared it to the Bible, and I was sickened. They will defend their church to the death, but I myself am free to worship in my own way and not be a part of a church guided by guilt and shame. I will not give all of my money, time or energy to a church with a reputation for protecting it's child molester bishops and parents, and I will not tell my daughter that her only role in society is to procreate. I will not learn secret handshakes and will not go through the temple, (even though I had a recommend) and walk out with the same recycled biblical name that 300 other ladies who visited that day got. And most of all, I will not give up my coca cola. So there.
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#49 Consumer Comment

A couple things...

AUTHOR: tim - (U.S.A.)

Let me start off by saying that I think religion is silly, and that it is ridiculous that we let ancient mythology dictate our lives to the extent that we do. It is sad how much damage religion has done to our society and the world in general. That having been said, the COJCOLDS (yes it is a very long name), or Mormons, DO believe in Christ. In fact, Mormonism (if that's really a word) is the only Christian denomination that does not contradict anything the Bible says.

Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that the father, the son etc. are one entity; but there is a multitude of Biblical evidence (Jesus' baptism, the stoning of Stephen, Etc.) pointing to the fact that they are in fact separate beings. The Mormons do seem to place a heavy emphasis on the words of Joseph Smith and their current prophet (Is it still Ezra Taft Benson?).

However, these people are not viewed as deities, but as vehicles throuh which God's contemporary message is delivered. If judeo-christians believed in prophets for hundreds of years, isn't it rather UNchristian to think that there hasn't been one since Moses? (Or if Jesus is considered a prophet, then since Jesus?) According to the law of averages, God sends us a prophet every six hundred years or so, meaning we should have had three since Jesus. The denial of any prophets by Catholics and Protestants (the Mormons consider themselves to be neither) is evidence that THEY are the unchristian ones.

TO THE MORMON: (I think his name was Ken), please read up on "cultural relativism" and study how much the work of missionaries has done to destroy the culture and environment of native South Americans before you determine that what your brother is doing is so admirable.
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#50 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Find something more constructive to do with your time lynn

AUTHOR: Josh - ()

I was actually looking in a search directory for some music I could download, and I'm not sure why this site came up but the words "false claims by mormons" in the title got my attention.

This article got my attention because; First I am a member of the LDS (Mormon) church, Second my brother is on a mission giving two years of his life to serve and help others in Brazil, so it is frustrating to have Lynn bash the missionaries of this church, who are 19-21 year old boys who give selflessly.

3rd I'm only an 18 year old boy and I know this church is true and in a year I will also be serving my mission for it, or more importantly for God and for the people that I will be serving on my mission. Why would I give two years of my life for something I didn't know was true? I'm going on my mission because the church gives me a definite knowledge of the truth. I know who I am, where I'm from and where I'm going after this life.

I have been blessed to be born into this church and am extremly greatful for the blessings I have recieved in being a member of this church. I want to serve a mission and spread this very true gospal because it makes me happy, and I know it can bring joy to other's lives. That is what missionary work is about. They aren't out there trying to "sell something". In fact the only thing a missionary would ever ask of you, is that you give up some of your time to listen to that great message which they can share with you. About Christ and his mission, and how to become closer to him.

Contrary to what Lynn believes, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints is a Christian religion. We believe in God the eternal father, and in his son, Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. We do believe they are three seperate beings. Which makes sense, seeing as how when Christ was baptized the bible says "God smiled down on him" and then it says "the Holy Ghost desended in the form of a dove." How would one individual be in all three places at once especially when Christ had a physical body at the time. God also would have had a physical body because in Genesis 1:26 it says he does. This would make it difficult to change into the form of a dove. (anyways sorry about that kinda went off on a tangent). Lynn is right about us believing in Joseph Smith being a modern day prophet, who translated ancient scriptures written by the prophets in the America's. These scriptures are now known as the Book of Mormon. Even though we believe Joseph Smith is a prophet, we don't worship him, or consider him any greater a prophet than Abraham, Moses or Elijah. I'd also like to make the point that following a prophet of God, is following Christ.

In writing this I hope I didn't offend anyone, especially the Author of the "False claims by mormons". I do not want to debate about "the right or wrong of mormonism". But instead of taking my word or Lynn's word on what we think about the church, I would like to urge you to look into it. Because the only way you'll know without a doubt that any religion is true, is if you study that religion and pray about it, and the Holy Ghost manifests the truthfulness of that church to you. I know I'm not a strong speaker or writer, but I pray that you felt the Holy Ghost as you read this.
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#51 REBUTTAL Individual responds

I know all to well how the Mormans react

AUTHOR: Tammy - ()

We are the grandparents to the two boys that were kidnapped in Utah a few years ago, with there being an FBI manhunt. We called the Attorney General, Family Services, and a number of other people to help us, to get our grandkids out of the system and into our home. We was always told that family was not to see the kids, or to have the opportunity to adopt. We even went to Utah a number of times, we were told we couldn't see the kids, or we would call Family Services, and be put on hold for a long time.

It's ashame that were not rich parents, or grandparents, because we would be knocking on the President of the United States door, asking how can you let this happen.

What our son and daughter in law done was wrong, but doesn't everybody do wrong. That's life, and how we learn, and do I feel he should have had the right to have or see his kids. No, not at the time, in there state of mind. That's what we are there for, loving grandparents.

Christopher, wrote alot of bad stuff about the Morman religion, and I'm not saying that could be the reason, but there has to be one.

Where's the moral value in there decision, two grandkids we will never see play baseball, spend Christmas with us, everything is gone, because they felt that the parents deserved such discipline, but we didn't.
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