- Report: #1013311
Complaint Review: The Extreme Tour
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| The Extreme Tour www.theextremetour.com
Internet United States of America |
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The Extreme Tour Sham, Rip Off, Artist Beware www.theextremetour.com, Internet
*Consumer Comment: False Accusation by a Questionable Person
*UPDATE Employee: PAST ARTISTS SAY: THIS TOUR IS "AMAZING", "LIFE CHANGING", "TRUE"
*Author of original report: Final Rebuttle
*UPDATE Employee: Author's Review Is A Misrepresentation Of A Good Organization
*Author of original report: Let The Truth Be Known
*UPDATE Employee: The Above Report And Speculation Are Untrue
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Corporate Advocacy Program™
I am writing this article with the intent that artist will be made aware of this sham called "The Extreme Tour" and in the hopes that this will help musicians everywhere avoid getting taken advantage of by this debacle of a tour and shady individual(s) that operate it.
I've managed numerous artist past and present, and have over 25 years in the music industry. With that said, this has got to be the biggest joke that I have ever encountered in the music industry. I will give you the step by step break down in regards to how they operate.
One of my artist was contacted by these people and I quickly shut down all communication
after seeing how shady and non up front they are in regards to business. For starters, The Extreme Tour will initiate contact by sending artist a message on social media outlets such as Facebook, Reverbnation and etc.
The initial message states something to the extent of "Hey, I like your music and think you would be a great fit for our tour, you are receiving a special invite to sign up". They try to use psychology out the gate to create the illusion that the artist is "special" and that they have received a special invitation to possibly participate in their tour.
Once you go to the website the artist is instructed to input information such as stage name, social media links, website, and etc. And then of course, they hit you with the "registration fee of $15.95" that must be paid in order for any artist to be "considered" and for them to proceed.
Now $15.95 is not a lot of money at all, however this is just the start of their way of slowly initiating the process of getting artist to part with their finances. After the artist pays the $15.95 they then receive this lengthy, excessive, and poorly written E mail. As I read it I thought a schizophrenic wrote it due to it being over kill and way too wordy.
Keep in mind I attempted to chop down the email because it was way longer than this. Here is a summary of the first E mail here below
in bold...
Hi Guys, I trust you had a great Holiday Season, and that your New Year is off to a great start! As we move into the New Year, our office is hard at work preparing for the 2013 Extreme Tour, which will visit about 10 different countries, and be divided into 15 different Tour Teams running concurrently, with dates in Japan, the UK, Brazil, Australia, India, Nepal, Mexico, Germany, the United States and Canada, starting in June and running through December. As we prepare, I wanted to check in with you really quick and give you an update on the Extreme Tour 2013 Application and Selection Process.
We do have your application, of course, and we are currently engaged in the first stage of the application review process. You are receiving this email from me because your application has received a positive first review and you do have the recommendation of at least one of the
members of the Selection Panel. (One of our other team members may have already informed you of this) While this is not a final guarantee that you will indeed be scheduled for dates, this bodes well for your chances of being offered such an opportunity with us.
During phase one of the review of your application, all 15 members of the Selection Panel review your application individually, and at their leisure. They make initial notes for review by the rest of the Panel as they review your app and, should they consider your application appropriate for our Roster, they also mark it with their approval and recommendation. At this point, your application is advanced for consideration during phase two of our Review and Selection Process.
During phase two of our Selection and Review Process, applications that have been advanced beyond phase one, and have received a recommendation from at least one of the members of our Artist Selection Panel, are then reviewed by the Panel as a group. During this review, the recommendations and observations from individual Panel Members during phase one are considered along with the corresponding application. A select number of artists considered during phase two of our Selection and Review Process will be invited to meet personally with our Selection Panel or to also participate in our by-invite-only.
closed door meetings with our friends from the Music Industry that we have entitled The Objective Sessions. The purpose of this invitation is to provide an opportunity for our Panel to meet with and consider these artists during face to face interaction,
as well as to observe these artists as they engage in a professional setting with highly respected industry experts and professionals. Artists that receive an invitation to participate in this valuable series of meetings are not required to accept the invitation in order to still be considered, but a priority is given to artists that we have met face to face
Phase three of the Application Review and Selection Process starts in late March and is ongoing throughout the Extreme Tour 2013 Schedule, based on logistical need. There are three possible tiers of selection status that an artist may be granted. Tier three level artists are generally artists that we have worked with in the past, or that have demonstrated national or international name recognition and draw.
A high priority has been placed on their application and they receive the highest level of tour support, including food, lodging, transportation assistance, a waiver from any applicable merchandise sales commission Tier two level artists are generally artists that we place a high priority on as well, but who may not have a fully developed national or international
name recognition or draw. They are given priority over tier one artists and they receive a comprehensive tour support package that includes food, lodging, possible varying levels of transportation support, and a waiver from any applicable merchandise sales commission fees.
Tier one level artists are generally artists that we have not worked with before, or that have little to no demonstrated national or international name recognition or draw. These artists do receive a partial tour support package that includes some food and lodging, but these artists are responsible for all of their transportation expenses, may be responsible for merchandise sales commission fees, and may be required to provide a performance guarantee deposit (refundable upon completion of all dates that the artist has committed to).
Again, Selected Artists receive a notification of their Tier Level with the initial e-mail they receive notifying them of their selected status.
Now notice, the statement that states "they" will decide which artist may have to pay a percentage of their merchandise sales? First of all, what planet do these people reside on? Any artist that pays their hard earned money for their T shirts to get made, pays for their CD's to get's pressed up, and other cost would be nuts to let The Extreme Tour make them pay them a percentage of their merchandise sales.
Actually they would have to be crazier than them to even entertain this
non sense. However the madness didn't stop there. They sent another E Mail, this one even more poorly written and excessive than the last. And of course, more begging and pan handling request from The Extreme Tour continued. Once again I had to summarize because this E Mail was excessive as well. See the details of the second E Mail here in bold...
I know I recently contacted you outlining the way the Selection Process would progress over the next few months. As you know, we are currently in the process of reviewing your application and comparing it with the other applicants.
We should have an answer for you, as to your selection status for the Extreme Tour, as the Application Process comes to a close over the next few months or so. As I indicated I would, I am contacting you again with details regarding the next step in this process. At this point, someone has indicated to our staff that they believe that things have progressed enough that we should include you.
This series of closed door sessions were more than just a seminar, but rather an intimate and interactive mentoring experience with artists and industry experts who have a wealth of experience and wisdom to share with our artists. Again, these are our friends, who are willing to help our artists because they emphatically support the mission and vision of the Extreme
Tour.
Finally, we also added the opportunity for an even more select group of artists to actually showcase for our friends from the industry during these closed door sessions. Not being satisfied with the typical showcase that equates to just a brief one or two song performance in
front of influential people, we arranged for artists to have extended set times and for Industry Reps to do a written critique for each artist that performed that would give them valuable feedback as to what the attendees thought of their performance as well as helping them learn how they might improve.
Tom Jackson and his team also did an evaluation of each artist that performed and gave them recommendations, on the spot, of how they could improve their live performance. This is something that most of our Industry Friends charge thousands of dollars an hour for!
This Years Program: Over the past few years, changes in the music industry have resulted in changes in virtually every part of the Christian Music Industry, including in the Dove Awards. The Gospel Music Association has moved the Dove Awards to Atlanta, and activities around the awards have become even more exclusive and inaccessible to most indie artists. At the same time, the scope and influence of the Extreme Tour, within that industry, has dramatically increased as we have expanded and grown as a premier venue for emerging artists.
At this point, our relationships within the Industry and our representation during this season has less to do with the awards themselves, and more to do with our relationships within the industry and the respect these folks have for what we do, and therefore for the artists we are recommending to them.
Finally, we will select artists from the Promo Program for the exclusive opportunity to showcase live at The Objective in one of the top live performance venues in Nashville. All the artists that showcase will get invaluable feedback through a written critique from our panel of Industry Experts and the potential opportunity to receive custom live performance consultation from Tom Jackson and his team.
Again, Tom is perhaps the world' foremost authority on live performance and is the preferred live performance consultant for the biggest names in music today. There is a very limited number of showcase slots available, and those slots will only be given to artists selected from the registrants for the Industry Promo and Networking Program.
If you would like to register for the Promo and Networking Program, please email us right away at XTSelectionPanel@GMail.Com.
This will tell my assistant to get your email right to me so we can make sure you get a slot before they are gone. There is a shared cost of $180.00 per artist that represent the costs we explained earlier. (Again, less expensive than even just the postage of sending your
materials out to each of these people if you had had the addresses and relationships yourself !) You will need to send that to us via snail mail or PayPal no later than March 10th. We will give you follow up directions when you contact us and register.
Opportunity #2, The Objective "By Invitation Only" Developmental Sessions, These sessions will be held in downtown Nashville, May 19th through May 22nd. You can attend as little or as much of the schedule as you wish, but we would urge you to attend the entire event in order to get the maximum benefit from this opportunity. As I described earlier, these sessions are designed specifically for the purpose of meeting you face to face, and equipping you to pursue your artistic Calling as effectively as possible. We have assembled a team of Industry Experts
and Artists Mentors, many of them award winning music pioneers.
You will have 4 days with us, and our team of mentors and industry experts, during which you will get invaluable advice and guidance to personally help you as you chart your course as an artist. Topics to be addressed include: Live Performance, Songwriting, Recording, Distribution, Digital Media, Radio Airplay, Touring, Booking, Branding and Merch, Artistic Motive, Networking and Connection, Sustainable Financial Planning for Artists, Artist Management, Contract Negotiation, and more.
Now, if that isn't a clear indication that this is certified crazy...I don't know what is. First of all, that massive E Mail is ridiculous, too long, and just plain dumb. And if you had to read the actual E Mail at length you would have dozed off like I did. This E Mail boast that artist should pay them $180.00 so artist can perform for their "Industry friends". Who are these A List industry friends in detail?
They fail to provide a list of these people, which is also shady. If things are so legit why not provide names up front, why so elusive? And I forgot to mention the most entertaining thing through all of this is this person Martay Williams. I honestly find all of this pretty pathetic for the simple fact Martay Williams refers to herself at first as an "A&R" for The Extreme Tour, but this is complete non sense at it's finest.
All Martay Williams does it bombard artist with E Mails about nothing and essentially pan handles for The Extreme Tour. This "company" is a joke, and I highly encourage all artist to keep their money in their pockets, and if you ever get a message from Martay Williams send it to your spam folder.
Furthermore they should be more up front about all of these "hidden fees" in the beginning before asking artist to sign up and pay that registration fee. Every E Mail reveals more fees/cost and etc.
It's bad business on their part and I'm not sure how deep this rabbit hole goes, but I have pulled my artist far away from this con before they could do any further damage, and every artist should do the same.
I've managed numerous artist past and present, and have over 25 years in the music industry. With that said, this has got to be the biggest joke that I have ever encountered in the music industry. I will give you the step by step break down in regards to how they operate.
One of my artist was contacted by these people and I quickly shut down all communication
after seeing how shady and non up front they are in regards to business. For starters, The Extreme Tour will initiate contact by sending artist a message on social media outlets such as Facebook, Reverbnation and etc.
The initial message states something to the extent of "Hey, I like your music and think you would be a great fit for our tour, you are receiving a special invite to sign up". They try to use psychology out the gate to create the illusion that the artist is "special" and that they have received a special invitation to possibly participate in their tour.
Once you go to the website the artist is instructed to input information such as stage name, social media links, website, and etc. And then of course, they hit you with the "registration fee of $15.95" that must be paid in order for any artist to be "considered" and for them to proceed.
Now $15.95 is not a lot of money at all, however this is just the start of their way of slowly initiating the process of getting artist to part with their finances. After the artist pays the $15.95 they then receive this lengthy, excessive, and poorly written E mail. As I read it I thought a schizophrenic wrote it due to it being over kill and way too wordy.
Keep in mind I attempted to chop down the email because it was way longer than this. Here is a summary of the first E mail here below
in bold...
Hi Guys, I trust you had a great Holiday Season, and that your New Year is off to a great start! As we move into the New Year, our office is hard at work preparing for the 2013 Extreme Tour, which will visit about 10 different countries, and be divided into 15 different Tour Teams running concurrently, with dates in Japan, the UK, Brazil, Australia, India, Nepal, Mexico, Germany, the United States and Canada, starting in June and running through December. As we prepare, I wanted to check in with you really quick and give you an update on the Extreme Tour 2013 Application and Selection Process.
We do have your application, of course, and we are currently engaged in the first stage of the application review process. You are receiving this email from me because your application has received a positive first review and you do have the recommendation of at least one of the
members of the Selection Panel. (One of our other team members may have already informed you of this) While this is not a final guarantee that you will indeed be scheduled for dates, this bodes well for your chances of being offered such an opportunity with us.
During phase one of the review of your application, all 15 members of the Selection Panel review your application individually, and at their leisure. They make initial notes for review by the rest of the Panel as they review your app and, should they consider your application appropriate for our Roster, they also mark it with their approval and recommendation. At this point, your application is advanced for consideration during phase two of our Review and Selection Process.
During phase two of our Selection and Review Process, applications that have been advanced beyond phase one, and have received a recommendation from at least one of the members of our Artist Selection Panel, are then reviewed by the Panel as a group. During this review, the recommendations and observations from individual Panel Members during phase one are considered along with the corresponding application. A select number of artists considered during phase two of our Selection and Review Process will be invited to meet personally with our Selection Panel or to also participate in our by-invite-only.
closed door meetings with our friends from the Music Industry that we have entitled The Objective Sessions. The purpose of this invitation is to provide an opportunity for our Panel to meet with and consider these artists during face to face interaction,
as well as to observe these artists as they engage in a professional setting with highly respected industry experts and professionals. Artists that receive an invitation to participate in this valuable series of meetings are not required to accept the invitation in order to still be considered, but a priority is given to artists that we have met face to face
Phase three of the Application Review and Selection Process starts in late March and is ongoing throughout the Extreme Tour 2013 Schedule, based on logistical need. There are three possible tiers of selection status that an artist may be granted. Tier three level artists are generally artists that we have worked with in the past, or that have demonstrated national or international name recognition and draw.
A high priority has been placed on their application and they receive the highest level of tour support, including food, lodging, transportation assistance, a waiver from any applicable merchandise sales commission Tier two level artists are generally artists that we place a high priority on as well, but who may not have a fully developed national or international
name recognition or draw. They are given priority over tier one artists and they receive a comprehensive tour support package that includes food, lodging, possible varying levels of transportation support, and a waiver from any applicable merchandise sales commission fees.
Tier one level artists are generally artists that we have not worked with before, or that have little to no demonstrated national or international name recognition or draw. These artists do receive a partial tour support package that includes some food and lodging, but these artists are responsible for all of their transportation expenses, may be responsible for merchandise sales commission fees, and may be required to provide a performance guarantee deposit (refundable upon completion of all dates that the artist has committed to).
Again, Selected Artists receive a notification of their Tier Level with the initial e-mail they receive notifying them of their selected status.
Now notice, the statement that states "they" will decide which artist may have to pay a percentage of their merchandise sales? First of all, what planet do these people reside on? Any artist that pays their hard earned money for their T shirts to get made, pays for their CD's to get's pressed up, and other cost would be nuts to let The Extreme Tour make them pay them a percentage of their merchandise sales.
Actually they would have to be crazier than them to even entertain this
non sense. However the madness didn't stop there. They sent another E Mail, this one even more poorly written and excessive than the last. And of course, more begging and pan handling request from The Extreme Tour continued. Once again I had to summarize because this E Mail was excessive as well. See the details of the second E Mail here in bold...
I know I recently contacted you outlining the way the Selection Process would progress over the next few months. As you know, we are currently in the process of reviewing your application and comparing it with the other applicants.
We should have an answer for you, as to your selection status for the Extreme Tour, as the Application Process comes to a close over the next few months or so. As I indicated I would, I am contacting you again with details regarding the next step in this process. At this point, someone has indicated to our staff that they believe that things have progressed enough that we should include you.
This series of closed door sessions were more than just a seminar, but rather an intimate and interactive mentoring experience with artists and industry experts who have a wealth of experience and wisdom to share with our artists. Again, these are our friends, who are willing to help our artists because they emphatically support the mission and vision of the Extreme
Tour.
Finally, we also added the opportunity for an even more select group of artists to actually showcase for our friends from the industry during these closed door sessions. Not being satisfied with the typical showcase that equates to just a brief one or two song performance in
front of influential people, we arranged for artists to have extended set times and for Industry Reps to do a written critique for each artist that performed that would give them valuable feedback as to what the attendees thought of their performance as well as helping them learn how they might improve.
Tom Jackson and his team also did an evaluation of each artist that performed and gave them recommendations, on the spot, of how they could improve their live performance. This is something that most of our Industry Friends charge thousands of dollars an hour for!
This Years Program: Over the past few years, changes in the music industry have resulted in changes in virtually every part of the Christian Music Industry, including in the Dove Awards. The Gospel Music Association has moved the Dove Awards to Atlanta, and activities around the awards have become even more exclusive and inaccessible to most indie artists. At the same time, the scope and influence of the Extreme Tour, within that industry, has dramatically increased as we have expanded and grown as a premier venue for emerging artists.
At this point, our relationships within the Industry and our representation during this season has less to do with the awards themselves, and more to do with our relationships within the industry and the respect these folks have for what we do, and therefore for the artists we are recommending to them.
Finally, we will select artists from the Promo Program for the exclusive opportunity to showcase live at The Objective in one of the top live performance venues in Nashville. All the artists that showcase will get invaluable feedback through a written critique from our panel of Industry Experts and the potential opportunity to receive custom live performance consultation from Tom Jackson and his team.
Again, Tom is perhaps the world' foremost authority on live performance and is the preferred live performance consultant for the biggest names in music today. There is a very limited number of showcase slots available, and those slots will only be given to artists selected from the registrants for the Industry Promo and Networking Program.
If you would like to register for the Promo and Networking Program, please email us right away at XTSelectionPanel@GMail.Com.
This will tell my assistant to get your email right to me so we can make sure you get a slot before they are gone. There is a shared cost of $180.00 per artist that represent the costs we explained earlier. (Again, less expensive than even just the postage of sending your
materials out to each of these people if you had had the addresses and relationships yourself !) You will need to send that to us via snail mail or PayPal no later than March 10th. We will give you follow up directions when you contact us and register.
Opportunity #2, The Objective "By Invitation Only" Developmental Sessions, These sessions will be held in downtown Nashville, May 19th through May 22nd. You can attend as little or as much of the schedule as you wish, but we would urge you to attend the entire event in order to get the maximum benefit from this opportunity. As I described earlier, these sessions are designed specifically for the purpose of meeting you face to face, and equipping you to pursue your artistic Calling as effectively as possible. We have assembled a team of Industry Experts
and Artists Mentors, many of them award winning music pioneers.
You will have 4 days with us, and our team of mentors and industry experts, during which you will get invaluable advice and guidance to personally help you as you chart your course as an artist. Topics to be addressed include: Live Performance, Songwriting, Recording, Distribution, Digital Media, Radio Airplay, Touring, Booking, Branding and Merch, Artistic Motive, Networking and Connection, Sustainable Financial Planning for Artists, Artist Management, Contract Negotiation, and more.
Now, if that isn't a clear indication that this is certified crazy...I don't know what is. First of all, that massive E Mail is ridiculous, too long, and just plain dumb. And if you had to read the actual E Mail at length you would have dozed off like I did. This E Mail boast that artist should pay them $180.00 so artist can perform for their "Industry friends". Who are these A List industry friends in detail?
They fail to provide a list of these people, which is also shady. If things are so legit why not provide names up front, why so elusive? And I forgot to mention the most entertaining thing through all of this is this person Martay Williams. I honestly find all of this pretty pathetic for the simple fact Martay Williams refers to herself at first as an "A&R" for The Extreme Tour, but this is complete non sense at it's finest.
All Martay Williams does it bombard artist with E Mails about nothing and essentially pan handles for The Extreme Tour. This "company" is a joke, and I highly encourage all artist to keep their money in their pockets, and if you ever get a message from Martay Williams send it to your spam folder.
Furthermore they should be more up front about all of these "hidden fees" in the beginning before asking artist to sign up and pay that registration fee. Every E Mail reveals more fees/cost and etc.
It's bad business on their part and I'm not sure how deep this rabbit hole goes, but I have pulled my artist far away from this con before they could do any further damage, and every artist should do the same.
Click on image to enlarge:
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/12/2013 10:26 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/The-Extreme-Tour/internet/The-Extreme-Tour-Sham-Rip-Off-Artist-Beware-wwwtheextremetourcom-Internet-1013311. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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Search Tips#1 Consumer Comment
False Accusation by a Questionable Person
AUTHOR: Michael - ()
SUBMITTED: Saturday, May 11, 2013
The only scam going on here is in the part of Michael Abramowicz who is filing the complaint. I am an artist who has been involved with The Extreme Tour and know first hand that this is an absolute legit ministry. All of the staff, including the director Ted Bruun are volunteers and recieve no salary, and they have a true heart for the artists and for the people they minister to. Can Michael Abramowicz, the so called manager, tell us how much he charges the artists that he represents for his services. I am absolutely certain that he does not do it for free. There are plenty of positive comments about the Extreme Tour on Sonicbids and on the Internet, contrary to what Michael Abramowicz claims. The Emails that Michael Abramowicz uses in his false accusation have been altered to the point that the true meaning of them has been changed. At Michael Abramowicz own addmission, parts have been left out because they are (quote unquote too long). Is he serious? C'mon Michael, you appear to be a complete fraud and may be bordering slander. Additionally there is no on line evidence anywhere that Michael Abramowicz has ever been a manager of any musician. Again I believe this is a malicious attack upon a very good ministry that has had a positive impact on everyone it has touched. Michael Abramowicz, at best you have not done your homework and you have made false accusations on a ministry you know nothing about using coorespondence that has been altered. Michael Abramowicz. Shame on you!
Respond to this report!
What's this? #2 UPDATE Employee
PAST ARTISTS SAY: THIS TOUR IS "AMAZING", "LIFE CHANGING", "TRUE"
AUTHOR: XT Administration - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, February 16, 2013
WHO WE ARE (ONCE MORE):
It is appropriate that we correct the misrepresentations in this thread by ending where we began.
As stated at the very beginning of our first rebuttal, We are a non profit organization that seeks to positively impact culture through artistic expression and outreach. We are not, primarily, a business. At least not one motivated solely by money. The results we are after are found in lives changed, not money exchanged. Much of the work we do as an organization is related to helping artists pursue their Calling, not just their career. After 20 years, the results do speak for themselves. Artist Testimonies, Fan Testimonies, even Promoter Testimonies are all available all over the web. Contrary to the assertions of the "manager" who authored this erroneous review, a simple Google or Bing search will lead to many of them.
Or, if those reading this would rather, feel free to read positive and negative reviews from former applicants and artists objectively posted on Sonicbids, the world's largest online platform connecting artists with performing opportunities. Sonicbids has classified our tour as a "Premium Opportunity" for artists for the last 7 years, alongside the Warped Tour, SXSW, and many other household names. You can find those reviews on their site, by clicking on the following link: http://www.sonicbids.com/Opportunity/RatingComments/Comments.aspx?oid=108199&aid=87262
As a non profit organization, our staff is completely made up by non paid volunteers, almost all of them artists from our past roster whose lives have been changed by their experiences as a part of the grassroots movement that produces this tour. It is quite certain we are not motivated by mere "compensation". Rather, these experiences have produced the passion that has motivated a diligent response to misunderstanding and misrepresentation like that presented throughout "manager"'s slanderous "review". Rather than "arguments" though, we have presented the Truth. After all, as has been stated so often (if not so correctly), you can not rebut the Truth.
Below, please find reviews from many artists and applicants from our past few years:
Constant Recourse on September 5, 2009 at 01:45 PM:Selected for Tour 2007 West Coast! ---
The guys who run this have integrity in what they do! Expect to put in a lot of effort and to drive quite a bit. There was good exposure but because of the widespread nature of the tour, our fanbase didn't grow heaps from it. Local stuff is better for that. Christian bands of the rockin' variety will likely appreciate being a part of this. Feel free to email me questions. We had a good experience and definitely respect the folks in charge (namely Ted).
Audiocure on June 6, 2009 at 11:24 AM:Selected for Tour 2009 ---
We met the bands and director, Ted Bruun, of the Tour. They are all fantastic! We hope to be a part of this again in 2010.
THE401 on July 29, 2009 at 09:51 PM:Selected for Tour 2009 ---
We very much enjoyed this tour. I believe it helped us understand why we do what we do. We learned valuable lessons in each city and certainly connected with many people who we continue to have relationship with. This tour helped expand our network in the US and prepared us for the career to come.
the Lacks on August 14, 2009 at 04:17 PM:Selected for Tour 2009 ---
the tour was the most life changing experience of our lives! This tour is very authentic, as real as it gets! So many lives were changed and so were we. Every city and every face will be a memory we will never forget!
The Gospel Starlights on April 2, 2009 at 09:12 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Although we were not chosen for the 2009 Tour, we are truly humbled for being considered. On the other hand, we were chosen to perform live in Nashville at Rocketown during GMA Week on Tuesday April 21st, and we will be promoted that week by the Tour team! We definitely look forward to the RARE Opportunity to perform live at GMA! We would again like to send a special thanks to the Tour Family for giving us the oppportunity! In Christ, The Gospel Starlights
DREAMKILLER on April 2, 2009 at 11:42 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Quick response and detailed explanation as to why weren't selected. It's so nice to finally get some feedback on Sonicbids. (This) Tour cares and we will definitely submit again next year!!
Days of Waiting on August 6, 2009 at 06:20 PM:Selected for Tour 2009 ---
(This) Tour was an awesome ministry outreach tool and was a great thing to be a part of. The growth our band received was invaluable and gave us new vision of who we are and the direction He has for us !! Thanks,Days of Waiting - Scott
Lyrical Disciplez on July 17, 2010 at 08:45 AM:Selected for Tour 2010 ---
(This) Tour is unlike any other tour we've seen! We have been honored to serve along side with those who run this tour with integrity! This is not just a music tour, its a tour made to Change The World! I've seen lives changed, addictions broke, bands changed, & watched God move! If you're not ready to be on a mission field then this tour isn't for you! (This) Tour has impacted our lives truly and shown all artist that this is more than music which is temperorary, this is eternal
Crazy Crazy Awesome Awesome on August 6, 2011 at 03:05 PM:Selected for Tour 2011 ---
This tour is exactly what I've been looking for; our music is not about making music, and its not about making money; it's about actually serving the Lord in an effective way. This tour is one of the few organizations that does this. If you want to take your band on a mission trip and do things for the Lord and also stretch yourself and grow spiritually, this is the tour for you. It's not about money, music or fans, it's about souls, and showing Christ's love. Legit.
The Colton and Zara Band on September 30, 2011 at 01:54 AM:Selected for Tour 2011 ---
This has been THE most awesome tour we have ever done! This is a life changing, eye opening tour. You will work hard, stay up late, get up early, drive all day for many miles and meet some amazing people. You will help change peoples lives, be a positive influence to the hurting and be a part of an amazing team. You will play on all types of stages from parking lots, venues, schools and festivals. We highly recommend this tour to anyone...Be ready to have your world rocked.
Martay on October 3, 2011 at 02:27 AM:Selected for Tour 2011 ---
I just got home from (This) Tour today and left with tears streaming down my face. This has been the most meaningful and effective tour I've ever been a part of. Every band, coordinator, and leader of the tour blew my mind. Always prepared, ready to go and down to do their best. COULDN'T HAVE BEEN ANY BETTER!
Runaway Symphony on October 10, 2011 at 06:27 PM:Selected for Tour 2011 ---
This tour has brought us many new lifelong friends, musical ideas and inspirations, a renewed passion for what the band is about, and we were constantly refilling our merch stock. our email list is too long to catch up on in a day. we have stories that will last many lifetimes. from break downs and prank wars to radio interviews and seeing lives changed at every show, we are grateful to have been a part of this tour.
C.J. Lassiter on November 15, 2011 at 03:01 PM:Submitted to Tour 2011 ---
Although not initially selected, I did end up getting to go on (This) Tour for a couple weeks, and it was definitely one of the best experiences of my life. It combined touring and missions trips (two of my favorite things), so it was exactly what I was looking for. If you love playing music and serving God you will love (This) Tour.
About a Mile on January 1, 2011 at 11:46 AM:Submitted to Tour 2010 ---
Although we are listed as "not selected", we were selected and had a great experience. We spent almost 3 month touring the western states with some great people who will be lifelong friends. We learned so much about touring, ministering to hurting people and teamwork. Well worth the experience and thank-you to (This) Tour for including us.
sMALLTIME on April 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM:Submitted to Tour 2011 ---
Thanks for giving us a shot. Have a great tour God bless ya Ted
Art Kenyon on May 13, 2012 at 12:32 AM:Submitted to The Extreme Tour 2012 ---
Wasn't selected for the slot, however, great response from Ted. Hopefully something opens up in the next year here, definitely interested in considering 2013 either way.
Cadillac Muzik on May 13, 2012 at 12:04 PM:Submitted to Tour 2012 ---
(This) Tour 2012. Gave me a nice response back. Thank You
Karina Nistal on May 17, 2012 at 03:23 PM:Submitted to Tour 2012 ---
Well, (This) Tour is very responsive - I will give them that. I received the nicest rejection letter I have ever gotten... Thank you for your time and consideration. Regards, Karina Nistal
Reboot The Robot on July 7, 2012 at 03:21 AM:Selected for Tour 2012 - --
I was selected, and I had a blast on the tour.... If you want to reach hearts and touch lives, then take this tour. It is absolutely incredible, and has literally been the best tour I've ever had the honor to play. Truly incredible. Excellent opportunity. Humbles you as a musician, and helps bring your focus back to the people that need love, and takes the focus off yourself. If you want to make tons of money and play insane venues, this tour is not for you. If you genuinely want to reach people and love on kids that otherwise would have no love at all, then apply! Great memories, made lasting friendships. Uncle Jim and Ted Bruun really took care of us, and always made us feel welcome and positive. I'd do this for years!
The Colton and Zara Band on August 6, 2012 at 09:30 PM:Selected for Tour 2012 - --
This tour is not for the "Rock Star" this tour is for the artist that knows its more about the people you play to than the music itself. We were selected in 2011 and have returned in 2012. It's amazing and a lot of hard work but well worth it. Join the Movement! Thanks Ted :D
The Followthrough on September 11, 2012 at 03:50 PM:Selected for Tour 2012 ---
This tour was amazing! What the Tour did for The Followthrough was absolutely invaluable. It was so great to get the opportunity to impact so many people. Awesome.
VellVett on June 23, 2010 at 04:31 PM:Selected for 2010 ---
Very good communication is what you'll get with (This) Tour. I appreciate them for that. Although I declined the offer I am grateful they extended the opportunity to me. Great team of people.
Matt DiVenti on August 6, 2010 at 06:51 PM:Selected for Tour 2010 - --
This was one of the best experiences of my life! This is not about music. (This) Tour is about reaching people and changing lives. I built life long relationships while on tour and learned so much about being a musician on the road and what's really important out there. If you ever have the opportunity to be a part of this tour or just to experience (This) Tour Event, DON'T PASS IT UP!
Rocquette on December 30, 2010 at 08:54 AM:Submitted to Tour 2010 ---
The Tour Team answered on time - and although we were not selected, they were SO LOVELY and helpful and we had really good e-mail conversation. As a European Indie Artist it is not easy to get overseas gigs, and it seems they are really looking into how to make this possible. We were encouraged to keep them updated and also to submit for the next round (ongoing), and we would really like to hook up with (This) Tour since we feel very positive from previous communication.
Upheld on October 21, 2009 at 02:52 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009
We weren't one of the originally "selected" bands..but were on a backup list for the tour..and invited to jump on the East Coast for the last month. We learned so much by participating in this mission/tour. We enjoyed getting our music heard, but the growth we experienced in our relationship with Christ is beyond words. Making music is the easy part, learning to connect and build relationships with those you meet was a new experience. Everyone involved in this tour are wonderful/honest people.
Red Letter Bullet on December 10, 2009 at 06:55 PM:Selected for Tour 2009
This was a wonderful experience for our band that connected us with venues, churches, and fans across the eastern coast of the U.S. Best tour we have ever been a part of.....
The Eternal Affect on February 2, 2010 at 10:01 AM:Selected for Tour 2009
Just like The401 said, this tour really helped us understand why we do what we do. It's more than just playing shows in front of people. It's about connecting and helping someone in need and it really changed us as a bands life. God Bless the people running it, if anyone could experience this, we totally would recommend it!
B. Andrews on May 11, 2010 at 04:34 PM:Submitted to Tour 2010 ---
Even though the response was somewhat delayed, the promoter gave one of the lengthiest and detailed responses. It was excellent communication that we needed to hear.
Legrand on April 2, 2009 at 08:21 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Although I was not chosen as an artist on this year's tour, I appreciated the encouraging feedback, and most of all the professionalism and timeliness of their response. I look forward to an opportunity to tour with them in the future. Legrand "The Professional"
VellVett on April 6, 2009 at 09:10 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
This promoter responded respectfully and timely. I would absolutely refer artists to communicate with them. This is incredible!
DREAMKILLER on April 2, 2009 at 11:44 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Quick response and detailed explanation as to why we weren't selected. It's so nice to finally get some feedback on Sonicbids! (This) Tour cares and we will definitely submit again next year!!!
Frank Palangi on April 2, 2009 at 07:36 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
I didn't get into the tour.. but they kept good contact with me. I really feel that they took an interest with my music and gave me good information about the tour. A great company. Really nice and kind.
phfobe on April 3, 2009 at 12:31 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Left a very encouraging message. No "needle-dropper" here. Left the door open for future projects. I like to hear that.
Flourish on January 20, 2009 at 10:39 PM: Selected for Tour 2009 ---
I'm looking forward to our band hopefully being a part of this tour. My friends at Gotee (Records) said that the organizers of the Tour are solid individuals who care about the bands they work with. Rock On! Shmiddy
Oathkeeper on February 13, 2009 at 07:45 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
You guys are a real inspiration to what every tour in the United States should be. Our band gives you the best of luck, with the respect of a true christian musician, and we are hoping to have the honor of playing for the Tour this summer. God Bless you guys! Rock On!
Men Of Business (M.O.B) on March 28, 2009 at 02:13 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009
In many ways, your mission has touched my heart and the more I read about what you hope to find in an artist and their team- the more I want to work with you and believe that we are the right fit for this. Ive addressed every single one of your values in my letter in hopes of reaching out and connecting with you we would love to be able to perform in on your tour and we will meet your expectations.
Nob'l on March 31, 2009 at 03:25 PM:Selected for Tour 2009
I am pleased to have the opportunity to submit to this tour. I am sure that I will bring the message, the energy, quality, and professionalism that is associated with this tour.
It is appropriate that we correct the misrepresentations in this thread by ending where we began.
As stated at the very beginning of our first rebuttal, We are a non profit organization that seeks to positively impact culture through artistic expression and outreach. We are not, primarily, a business. At least not one motivated solely by money. The results we are after are found in lives changed, not money exchanged. Much of the work we do as an organization is related to helping artists pursue their Calling, not just their career. After 20 years, the results do speak for themselves. Artist Testimonies, Fan Testimonies, even Promoter Testimonies are all available all over the web. Contrary to the assertions of the "manager" who authored this erroneous review, a simple Google or Bing search will lead to many of them.
Or, if those reading this would rather, feel free to read positive and negative reviews from former applicants and artists objectively posted on Sonicbids, the world's largest online platform connecting artists with performing opportunities. Sonicbids has classified our tour as a "Premium Opportunity" for artists for the last 7 years, alongside the Warped Tour, SXSW, and many other household names. You can find those reviews on their site, by clicking on the following link: http://www.sonicbids.com/Opportunity/RatingComments/Comments.aspx?oid=108199&aid=87262
As a non profit organization, our staff is completely made up by non paid volunteers, almost all of them artists from our past roster whose lives have been changed by their experiences as a part of the grassroots movement that produces this tour. It is quite certain we are not motivated by mere "compensation". Rather, these experiences have produced the passion that has motivated a diligent response to misunderstanding and misrepresentation like that presented throughout "manager"'s slanderous "review". Rather than "arguments" though, we have presented the Truth. After all, as has been stated so often (if not so correctly), you can not rebut the Truth.
Below, please find reviews from many artists and applicants from our past few years:
Constant Recourse on September 5, 2009 at 01:45 PM:Selected for Tour 2007 West Coast! ---
The guys who run this have integrity in what they do! Expect to put in a lot of effort and to drive quite a bit. There was good exposure but because of the widespread nature of the tour, our fanbase didn't grow heaps from it. Local stuff is better for that. Christian bands of the rockin' variety will likely appreciate being a part of this. Feel free to email me questions. We had a good experience and definitely respect the folks in charge (namely Ted).
Audiocure on June 6, 2009 at 11:24 AM:Selected for Tour 2009 ---
We met the bands and director, Ted Bruun, of the Tour. They are all fantastic! We hope to be a part of this again in 2010.
THE401 on July 29, 2009 at 09:51 PM:Selected for Tour 2009 ---
We very much enjoyed this tour. I believe it helped us understand why we do what we do. We learned valuable lessons in each city and certainly connected with many people who we continue to have relationship with. This tour helped expand our network in the US and prepared us for the career to come.
the Lacks on August 14, 2009 at 04:17 PM:Selected for Tour 2009 ---
the tour was the most life changing experience of our lives! This tour is very authentic, as real as it gets! So many lives were changed and so were we. Every city and every face will be a memory we will never forget!
The Gospel Starlights on April 2, 2009 at 09:12 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Although we were not chosen for the 2009 Tour, we are truly humbled for being considered. On the other hand, we were chosen to perform live in Nashville at Rocketown during GMA Week on Tuesday April 21st, and we will be promoted that week by the Tour team! We definitely look forward to the RARE Opportunity to perform live at GMA! We would again like to send a special thanks to the Tour Family for giving us the oppportunity! In Christ, The Gospel Starlights
DREAMKILLER on April 2, 2009 at 11:42 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Quick response and detailed explanation as to why weren't selected. It's so nice to finally get some feedback on Sonicbids. (This) Tour cares and we will definitely submit again next year!!
Days of Waiting on August 6, 2009 at 06:20 PM:Selected for Tour 2009 ---
(This) Tour was an awesome ministry outreach tool and was a great thing to be a part of. The growth our band received was invaluable and gave us new vision of who we are and the direction He has for us !! Thanks,Days of Waiting - Scott
Lyrical Disciplez on July 17, 2010 at 08:45 AM:Selected for Tour 2010 ---
(This) Tour is unlike any other tour we've seen! We have been honored to serve along side with those who run this tour with integrity! This is not just a music tour, its a tour made to Change The World! I've seen lives changed, addictions broke, bands changed, & watched God move! If you're not ready to be on a mission field then this tour isn't for you! (This) Tour has impacted our lives truly and shown all artist that this is more than music which is temperorary, this is eternal
Crazy Crazy Awesome Awesome on August 6, 2011 at 03:05 PM:Selected for Tour 2011 ---
This tour is exactly what I've been looking for; our music is not about making music, and its not about making money; it's about actually serving the Lord in an effective way. This tour is one of the few organizations that does this. If you want to take your band on a mission trip and do things for the Lord and also stretch yourself and grow spiritually, this is the tour for you. It's not about money, music or fans, it's about souls, and showing Christ's love. Legit.
The Colton and Zara Band on September 30, 2011 at 01:54 AM:Selected for Tour 2011 ---
This has been THE most awesome tour we have ever done! This is a life changing, eye opening tour. You will work hard, stay up late, get up early, drive all day for many miles and meet some amazing people. You will help change peoples lives, be a positive influence to the hurting and be a part of an amazing team. You will play on all types of stages from parking lots, venues, schools and festivals. We highly recommend this tour to anyone...Be ready to have your world rocked.
Martay on October 3, 2011 at 02:27 AM:Selected for Tour 2011 ---
I just got home from (This) Tour today and left with tears streaming down my face. This has been the most meaningful and effective tour I've ever been a part of. Every band, coordinator, and leader of the tour blew my mind. Always prepared, ready to go and down to do their best. COULDN'T HAVE BEEN ANY BETTER!
Runaway Symphony on October 10, 2011 at 06:27 PM:Selected for Tour 2011 ---
This tour has brought us many new lifelong friends, musical ideas and inspirations, a renewed passion for what the band is about, and we were constantly refilling our merch stock. our email list is too long to catch up on in a day. we have stories that will last many lifetimes. from break downs and prank wars to radio interviews and seeing lives changed at every show, we are grateful to have been a part of this tour.
C.J. Lassiter on November 15, 2011 at 03:01 PM:Submitted to Tour 2011 ---
Although not initially selected, I did end up getting to go on (This) Tour for a couple weeks, and it was definitely one of the best experiences of my life. It combined touring and missions trips (two of my favorite things), so it was exactly what I was looking for. If you love playing music and serving God you will love (This) Tour.
About a Mile on January 1, 2011 at 11:46 AM:Submitted to Tour 2010 ---
Although we are listed as "not selected", we were selected and had a great experience. We spent almost 3 month touring the western states with some great people who will be lifelong friends. We learned so much about touring, ministering to hurting people and teamwork. Well worth the experience and thank-you to (This) Tour for including us.
sMALLTIME on April 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM:Submitted to Tour 2011 ---
Thanks for giving us a shot. Have a great tour God bless ya Ted
Art Kenyon on May 13, 2012 at 12:32 AM:Submitted to The Extreme Tour 2012 ---
Wasn't selected for the slot, however, great response from Ted. Hopefully something opens up in the next year here, definitely interested in considering 2013 either way.
Cadillac Muzik on May 13, 2012 at 12:04 PM:Submitted to Tour 2012 ---
(This) Tour 2012. Gave me a nice response back. Thank You
Karina Nistal on May 17, 2012 at 03:23 PM:Submitted to Tour 2012 ---
Well, (This) Tour is very responsive - I will give them that. I received the nicest rejection letter I have ever gotten... Thank you for your time and consideration. Regards, Karina Nistal
Reboot The Robot on July 7, 2012 at 03:21 AM:Selected for Tour 2012 - --
I was selected, and I had a blast on the tour.... If you want to reach hearts and touch lives, then take this tour. It is absolutely incredible, and has literally been the best tour I've ever had the honor to play. Truly incredible. Excellent opportunity. Humbles you as a musician, and helps bring your focus back to the people that need love, and takes the focus off yourself. If you want to make tons of money and play insane venues, this tour is not for you. If you genuinely want to reach people and love on kids that otherwise would have no love at all, then apply! Great memories, made lasting friendships. Uncle Jim and Ted Bruun really took care of us, and always made us feel welcome and positive. I'd do this for years!
The Colton and Zara Band on August 6, 2012 at 09:30 PM:Selected for Tour 2012 - --
This tour is not for the "Rock Star" this tour is for the artist that knows its more about the people you play to than the music itself. We were selected in 2011 and have returned in 2012. It's amazing and a lot of hard work but well worth it. Join the Movement! Thanks Ted :D
The Followthrough on September 11, 2012 at 03:50 PM:Selected for Tour 2012 ---
This tour was amazing! What the Tour did for The Followthrough was absolutely invaluable. It was so great to get the opportunity to impact so many people. Awesome.
VellVett on June 23, 2010 at 04:31 PM:Selected for 2010 ---
Very good communication is what you'll get with (This) Tour. I appreciate them for that. Although I declined the offer I am grateful they extended the opportunity to me. Great team of people.
Matt DiVenti on August 6, 2010 at 06:51 PM:Selected for Tour 2010 - --
This was one of the best experiences of my life! This is not about music. (This) Tour is about reaching people and changing lives. I built life long relationships while on tour and learned so much about being a musician on the road and what's really important out there. If you ever have the opportunity to be a part of this tour or just to experience (This) Tour Event, DON'T PASS IT UP!
Rocquette on December 30, 2010 at 08:54 AM:Submitted to Tour 2010 ---
The Tour Team answered on time - and although we were not selected, they were SO LOVELY and helpful and we had really good e-mail conversation. As a European Indie Artist it is not easy to get overseas gigs, and it seems they are really looking into how to make this possible. We were encouraged to keep them updated and also to submit for the next round (ongoing), and we would really like to hook up with (This) Tour since we feel very positive from previous communication.
Upheld on October 21, 2009 at 02:52 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009
We weren't one of the originally "selected" bands..but were on a backup list for the tour..and invited to jump on the East Coast for the last month. We learned so much by participating in this mission/tour. We enjoyed getting our music heard, but the growth we experienced in our relationship with Christ is beyond words. Making music is the easy part, learning to connect and build relationships with those you meet was a new experience. Everyone involved in this tour are wonderful/honest people.
Red Letter Bullet on December 10, 2009 at 06:55 PM:Selected for Tour 2009
This was a wonderful experience for our band that connected us with venues, churches, and fans across the eastern coast of the U.S. Best tour we have ever been a part of.....
The Eternal Affect on February 2, 2010 at 10:01 AM:Selected for Tour 2009
Just like The401 said, this tour really helped us understand why we do what we do. It's more than just playing shows in front of people. It's about connecting and helping someone in need and it really changed us as a bands life. God Bless the people running it, if anyone could experience this, we totally would recommend it!
B. Andrews on May 11, 2010 at 04:34 PM:Submitted to Tour 2010 ---
Even though the response was somewhat delayed, the promoter gave one of the lengthiest and detailed responses. It was excellent communication that we needed to hear.
Legrand on April 2, 2009 at 08:21 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Although I was not chosen as an artist on this year's tour, I appreciated the encouraging feedback, and most of all the professionalism and timeliness of their response. I look forward to an opportunity to tour with them in the future. Legrand "The Professional"
VellVett on April 6, 2009 at 09:10 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
This promoter responded respectfully and timely. I would absolutely refer artists to communicate with them. This is incredible!
DREAMKILLER on April 2, 2009 at 11:44 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Quick response and detailed explanation as to why we weren't selected. It's so nice to finally get some feedback on Sonicbids! (This) Tour cares and we will definitely submit again next year!!!
Frank Palangi on April 2, 2009 at 07:36 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
I didn't get into the tour.. but they kept good contact with me. I really feel that they took an interest with my music and gave me good information about the tour. A great company. Really nice and kind.
phfobe on April 3, 2009 at 12:31 AM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
Left a very encouraging message. No "needle-dropper" here. Left the door open for future projects. I like to hear that.
Flourish on January 20, 2009 at 10:39 PM: Selected for Tour 2009 ---
I'm looking forward to our band hopefully being a part of this tour. My friends at Gotee (Records) said that the organizers of the Tour are solid individuals who care about the bands they work with. Rock On! Shmiddy
Oathkeeper on February 13, 2009 at 07:45 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009 ---
You guys are a real inspiration to what every tour in the United States should be. Our band gives you the best of luck, with the respect of a true christian musician, and we are hoping to have the honor of playing for the Tour this summer. God Bless you guys! Rock On!
Men Of Business (M.O.B) on March 28, 2009 at 02:13 PM:Submitted to Tour 2009
In many ways, your mission has touched my heart and the more I read about what you hope to find in an artist and their team- the more I want to work with you and believe that we are the right fit for this. Ive addressed every single one of your values in my letter in hopes of reaching out and connecting with you we would love to be able to perform in on your tour and we will meet your expectations.
Nob'l on March 31, 2009 at 03:25 PM:Selected for Tour 2009
I am pleased to have the opportunity to submit to this tour. I am sure that I will bring the message, the energy, quality, and professionalism that is associated with this tour.
Respond to this report!
What's this? #3 Author of original report
Final Rebuttle
AUTHOR: Michael Abramowicz - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, February 16, 2013
Clarification
I wrote the initial report to assist in regards to helping educate consumers. The goal is not to entertain a back and forth debate with an individual(s) that obviously have their own agenda. I've put forth the facts so consumers can take hold of the knowledge I provided and utilize that to make an informed choice in regards to this "tour". I have no interest in tearing down anyone's business, or character; however the truth is something that you cannot rebuttal.
Obviously this Extreme Tour is hard pressed to make a point, so with that said I will continue with additional facts that I did not address prior in an attempt not to bring additional shame upon your operation. And unfortunately, the more you talk, the more you disclose and continue to embarrass yourselves further.
Search The Extreme Tour In Google, Bing, and etc
You boasted The Extreme Tour has been around for nearly 20 years, my question is simple, where are the results? If you guys have been doing this for that long why are there minimal results in Google or any other search engine for that matter?
Can someone provide a legitimate and intelligent answer? The results are simply non impressive, non existent, and unacceptable for an organization that boast to have been in business for so long.
At minimal, there should be at least some credible write ups in magazines, newspapers, media coverage, quotes/testimonials from A List artist that have participated, and etc that are available to the public. There are simply not enough results to validate any artist that is serious about their music career to participate in this operation. Once again, you will probably take this personally and get defensive, call me disrespectful, and use additional language in an attempt to discredit this report, but this is legitimate; and most importantly this is business. The bottom line in any business is simple, results.
The Extreme Tour is lacking results. No one wants to read any form of damage control written from a random employee, CEO, or anyone else from your company, people would much rather facts.
Think of this situation similar to the commercials on television when a person goes to buy a car and
the sales person is giving the person a whole bunch of fluff such as "this car is fast" "this car is nice" and then the person responds "show me the car facts". It's the same theme here.
No one cares about what any of you say. You can continue to post your rebuttal's, continue to claim a million different things, but guess what "show me the show facts". Because at the end of the day that's all that matters.
Industry Standards
You previously mentioned how "surprised you are" that someone (referring to me) that has worked in the industry so long doesn't "understand" how things usually work in an attempt to imply you guys are more knowledgeable. In regards to doing things the "right way". Let's be clear so there is no room for confusion, you guys obviously live in your own world. I have worked on numerous Major and Indie tours, and no one knows who or what an Extreme Tour is. No one has ever heard of you guys, so obviously there is a serious disconnect in regards to what you think you are accomplishing and what you really are accomplishing. As I previously stated above, the proof is in the results.
The Extreme Tour Prerogative
I asked why is it that Tier 1 artist are the only artist you previously stated that may be required to pay the merchandise fee that certain venues may require, and you don't cover that cost for Tier 1 artist. Your response was evasive stating "We have no Pay to Play fee for artists selected. Not even for the very few that we categorize as Tier One. We simply have different levels of support to offer different levels of artists that we accept for involvement". And then you ended your statement with an arrogant tone stating "And we contend that our standards are certainly our prerogative." No one cares about pay to play, you are totally missing the point.
On one hand you are trying to come across as being supportive of all artist (regardless of Tier) but then you also say you simply have different levels of support to offer different levels of artists and that's you prerogative. So you essentially made the admission that it is your prerogative to provide all artist with different levels of "support" and out of three Tier's of artist, it is your prerogative that if needed Tier 1 artist will be the one's that have to pay the merch fee. Instead of trying to sugar coat it just say what it is minus all of the fluff.
Misquoting Statements
You stated "Contrary to "Manager"'s representation, the Industry Standard is not typically limited to simply hearing an artist's music, and immediately making an offer." If that's what you gathered from my statement then you have a serious problem in regards to reading comprehension. If anyone wants to re read my statement, simply scroll above. What I expressed is that the process you conduct to recruit artist is over kill.
I stated further that it is common practice after a promoter likes an artist music we then proceed to discuss business, and negotiate to arrive at a business understanding that is beneficial to both parties. As previously stated, this is what legitimate people in business do, handle business and expedite it accordingly. What you are attempting to do is justify your dragged out process compounded with horrendous emails but it's unacceptable, period.
Unfortunately, you clearly feel that how you have been running your operation is great, despite the obvious lack of results. The proof is in what people can see and read, in laymen terms, tangible results, and not what you would like us to think. Stop misconstruing statements.
Conclusion
You simply cannot rebuttal truth. You continue attempts to misconstrue words, attack my comments, and develop responses for issues that you created. I've done my part by voicing my opinion in regards to this matter. Any consumer reading this will clearly see the difference between my position and yours. I stand to gain nothing by doing this. Making this complaint doesn't put any money in my pocket, nor am I being compensated for my time doing so. All I want is to make other consumers aware in regards to the situation.
You obviously have your own agenda to go back and forth about this issue. In closing, fellow consumers I have provided you with a plethora of information, and knowledge. Feel free to review the information I provided and I am certain you will make an informed decision. And always remember, when dealing with people in business. Anyone can write anything to create their
own reality, but in the end results never lie.
Furthermore, to address your closing statements, my reviews posted in this thread are not
flawed by any misunderstanding about your organization or process. You guys provided this information and that is how this came to my attention in the first place. You also stated I have not experienced your tour yet, correct, because I refuse to let any of the artist I represent do so. I am in the business of getting the most out of my time, not wasting it with non-beneficial activities.
You also stated I have expressed opinions, which is incorrect. These are statements that are a result of the information/documentation you provided. You also stated Clearly there is seemingly some amount of misunderstanding or misrepresentation present here. We have tried to correct those misunderstandings with these rebuttals. You essentially did not attempt to correct anything.
You continue attempts to minimize factual statements and only attempt to debate issues that are non-debatable. With that said I will no longer respond to any of these rebuttals. The truth has been voiced.
I wrote the initial report to assist in regards to helping educate consumers. The goal is not to entertain a back and forth debate with an individual(s) that obviously have their own agenda. I've put forth the facts so consumers can take hold of the knowledge I provided and utilize that to make an informed choice in regards to this "tour". I have no interest in tearing down anyone's business, or character; however the truth is something that you cannot rebuttal.
Obviously this Extreme Tour is hard pressed to make a point, so with that said I will continue with additional facts that I did not address prior in an attempt not to bring additional shame upon your operation. And unfortunately, the more you talk, the more you disclose and continue to embarrass yourselves further.
Search The Extreme Tour In Google, Bing, and etc
You boasted The Extreme Tour has been around for nearly 20 years, my question is simple, where are the results? If you guys have been doing this for that long why are there minimal results in Google or any other search engine for that matter?
Can someone provide a legitimate and intelligent answer? The results are simply non impressive, non existent, and unacceptable for an organization that boast to have been in business for so long.
At minimal, there should be at least some credible write ups in magazines, newspapers, media coverage, quotes/testimonials from A List artist that have participated, and etc that are available to the public. There are simply not enough results to validate any artist that is serious about their music career to participate in this operation. Once again, you will probably take this personally and get defensive, call me disrespectful, and use additional language in an attempt to discredit this report, but this is legitimate; and most importantly this is business. The bottom line in any business is simple, results.
The Extreme Tour is lacking results. No one wants to read any form of damage control written from a random employee, CEO, or anyone else from your company, people would much rather facts.
Think of this situation similar to the commercials on television when a person goes to buy a car and
the sales person is giving the person a whole bunch of fluff such as "this car is fast" "this car is nice" and then the person responds "show me the car facts". It's the same theme here.
No one cares about what any of you say. You can continue to post your rebuttal's, continue to claim a million different things, but guess what "show me the show facts". Because at the end of the day that's all that matters.
Industry Standards
You previously mentioned how "surprised you are" that someone (referring to me) that has worked in the industry so long doesn't "understand" how things usually work in an attempt to imply you guys are more knowledgeable. In regards to doing things the "right way". Let's be clear so there is no room for confusion, you guys obviously live in your own world. I have worked on numerous Major and Indie tours, and no one knows who or what an Extreme Tour is. No one has ever heard of you guys, so obviously there is a serious disconnect in regards to what you think you are accomplishing and what you really are accomplishing. As I previously stated above, the proof is in the results.
The Extreme Tour Prerogative
I asked why is it that Tier 1 artist are the only artist you previously stated that may be required to pay the merchandise fee that certain venues may require, and you don't cover that cost for Tier 1 artist. Your response was evasive stating "We have no Pay to Play fee for artists selected. Not even for the very few that we categorize as Tier One. We simply have different levels of support to offer different levels of artists that we accept for involvement". And then you ended your statement with an arrogant tone stating "And we contend that our standards are certainly our prerogative." No one cares about pay to play, you are totally missing the point.
On one hand you are trying to come across as being supportive of all artist (regardless of Tier) but then you also say you simply have different levels of support to offer different levels of artists and that's you prerogative. So you essentially made the admission that it is your prerogative to provide all artist with different levels of "support" and out of three Tier's of artist, it is your prerogative that if needed Tier 1 artist will be the one's that have to pay the merch fee. Instead of trying to sugar coat it just say what it is minus all of the fluff.
Misquoting Statements
You stated "Contrary to "Manager"'s representation, the Industry Standard is not typically limited to simply hearing an artist's music, and immediately making an offer." If that's what you gathered from my statement then you have a serious problem in regards to reading comprehension. If anyone wants to re read my statement, simply scroll above. What I expressed is that the process you conduct to recruit artist is over kill.
I stated further that it is common practice after a promoter likes an artist music we then proceed to discuss business, and negotiate to arrive at a business understanding that is beneficial to both parties. As previously stated, this is what legitimate people in business do, handle business and expedite it accordingly. What you are attempting to do is justify your dragged out process compounded with horrendous emails but it's unacceptable, period.
Unfortunately, you clearly feel that how you have been running your operation is great, despite the obvious lack of results. The proof is in what people can see and read, in laymen terms, tangible results, and not what you would like us to think. Stop misconstruing statements.
Conclusion
You simply cannot rebuttal truth. You continue attempts to misconstrue words, attack my comments, and develop responses for issues that you created. I've done my part by voicing my opinion in regards to this matter. Any consumer reading this will clearly see the difference between my position and yours. I stand to gain nothing by doing this. Making this complaint doesn't put any money in my pocket, nor am I being compensated for my time doing so. All I want is to make other consumers aware in regards to the situation.
You obviously have your own agenda to go back and forth about this issue. In closing, fellow consumers I have provided you with a plethora of information, and knowledge. Feel free to review the information I provided and I am certain you will make an informed decision. And always remember, when dealing with people in business. Anyone can write anything to create their
own reality, but in the end results never lie.
Furthermore, to address your closing statements, my reviews posted in this thread are not
flawed by any misunderstanding about your organization or process. You guys provided this information and that is how this came to my attention in the first place. You also stated I have not experienced your tour yet, correct, because I refuse to let any of the artist I represent do so. I am in the business of getting the most out of my time, not wasting it with non-beneficial activities.
You also stated I have expressed opinions, which is incorrect. These are statements that are a result of the information/documentation you provided. You also stated Clearly there is seemingly some amount of misunderstanding or misrepresentation present here. We have tried to correct those misunderstandings with these rebuttals. You essentially did not attempt to correct anything.
You continue attempts to minimize factual statements and only attempt to debate issues that are non-debatable. With that said I will no longer respond to any of these rebuttals. The truth has been voiced.
Respond to this report!
What's this? #4 UPDATE Employee
Author's Review Is A Misrepresentation Of A Good Organization
AUTHOR: XT Administration - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Friday, February 15, 2013
--- The person filing the original report on this post has made several misrepresentations regarding our Organization and the process we use to select artists. We prefer to personally address concerns anyone may have about our organization, but the author of this post has attacked our integrity in this public setting and we do not want others to be confused or misled by his misrepresentation.
For this reason, we are providing a basic answer in these rebuttals. Any person with questions about the specifics of our Tour, or the process we use to select artists, may contact us directly and we will take the time to directly answer all questions and correct the record.---
_______________________________________________________________________________________
WE DO NOT CHARGE ANY HIDDEN FEES RELATED TO APPLYING FOR, OR PERFORMING ON, THE TOUR:
The author of this original post has continued to confuse the primary issue here. Perhaps deliberately, and perhaps as a means to mislead.
As he should be well aware, the $ 180.00 he is referring to is not for involvement with the tour we run at all, it is a small fee charged for a completely SEPARATE service we offer only select artists who may have applied for the tour. It's completely optional and is not something any applicant must do in order to be considered for our tour. In fact, most applicants do not even have the opportunity to do so as we only invite a small pool of applicants to consider it. This is all clearly stated in the documents that the author of this original post received.
Contrary to the original author's repeated false claims, there are NO hidden or additional fees for artists applying to be part of the tour we operate. Artists that apply for the tour only pay an initial application fee. Our intent in charging that fee has been explained in our initial rebuttal to the accusatory and (in our opinion) highly offensive and demeaning post that initiated this entire thread.
It is a common practice for companies to offer more than one service or product, and to offer customers and clients the opportunity to enhance their experience by considering involvement with, or purchase of, an additional service or product that the company believes would be of interest to that customer or client. This is what we have done here. As it IS so common (Think "Super Sizing" a Value Meal for an additional charge), it is hard to understand how someone could so misunderstand our process or these additional offers.
THE IMPORTANCE OF RELATIONSHIP AND THOROUGH INFORMATION IN OUR EVALUATION:
As we stated repeatedly, we do NOT require artists to meet with us face to face in order to be considered or selected for involvement with the tour. Rather, face to face meeting opportunities are offered to artists, and in fact encouraged as we have come to believe they provide an invaluable opportunity for artists to best evaluate us, and for our team to best evaluate an artist for potential involvement.
We believe that our tour represents a significant opportunity for selected artists to impact audiences around the world with their Message and their Music. We also believe that we have created a framework for tremendous developmental opportunity for artists we select to be involved. And clearly, many artists believe this is a significant opportunity as well. Artists from all over the world have applied for, and participated on, our tour and have publicly expressed their satisfaction with that experience. We are all entitled to our opinion. You do not have to agree with it.
We reserve the right to establish any standard we desire for the projects we produce and maintain, regardless of the opinion of any of the applicants or the practices of other organizations they may be familiar with.
Certainly we desire as much input as possible in order to make the best decision possible. However, the only REQUIREMENT for an artist to be considered for potential involvement in the tour is that they file an application. Their application will be considered like any other application submitted.
INDUSTRY STANDARDS (AND OURS) FOR ARTIST EVALUATION AND NEGOTIATION:
Contrary to "Manager"'s representation, the Industry Standard is not typically limited to simply hearing an artist's music, and immediately making an offer. At least not at the level we operate in. Most significant organizations in the industry research an artist as thoroughly as possible before finalizing any potential working arrangement.(Credible) Record labels and management companies usually desire to observe a potential artist in relationship before making significant commitments. Major national or international tours and festivals like ours almost always charge a large fee in order for less established artists to even perform at all. (Hence the term: "Pay to Play") Most applicants to our tour are very familiar with these practices in the industry. It's hard to imagine someone with "over 25 years of industry experience" not knowing about this very common practice.
Unlike these organizations however, we have no "Pay to Play" fee for artists selected. Not even for the very few that we categorize as "Tier One". We do not view any of our artists as "Step Children". We simply have different levels of support to offer different levels of artists that we accept for involvement. And we contend that our standards are certainly our prerogative.
We do not have to accept artists on Tier One at all. We could just exclude them completely by rejecting their application. Rather, we choose to offer these few artists an opportunity to perform should they so desire, even if we are not offering them as much support as other artists we felt were perhaps more worth the resources we have ability to invest. Artists selected for Tier One certainly have the option of declining our proposal and not performing with us at all. That is their prerogative, after all.
The process of coming to an agreement CAN be a negotiation. But either party has the right to decline at any time. Our tier system just provides selected artists with a framework for starting that negotiation by giving them an indication of where we believe they fall in our internal negotiation and booking guidelines.
WE ALL CAN ALWAYS LEARN AND GROW:
We concur that all organizations should never stop desiring improvement and pursuing excellence. And we certainly do have much to offer each other when we share our perspectives. However, not every perspective is equally correct. It is only as good as the accuracy of the information that informs it.
With all due respect to the author of the original "review" posted on this thread, the information that informed his opinions was flawed by his misunderstanding of many basic facts about our organization or our process. By his own admission, neither he, nor the artists he claims to represent, have actually experienced our tour yet, or have participated in or experienced any of the other services we provide. The opinions the author does share are not seemingly congruent with real knowledge of the industry we are a part of.
Clearly there is seemingly some amount of misunderstanding or misrepresentation present here. We have tried to correct those misunderstandings with these rebuttals.
It is likely not prudent or beneficial to go back and forth in a setting like this with someone who has already made up their mind so emphatically without even offering us the opportunity to personally address their questions or concerns. Especially when, in our opinion, the tone of their commentary has been so accusatory, demeaning, and even mean spirited at times. To this point, we have continued this dialog in an effort to help provide clarity to those researching our tour online.
THANK YOU TO ALL WHO HAVE READ THROUGH THIS INFORMATION.
RATHER THAN BEING "DEFENSIVE", OUR CONCERN IS THAT READERS HAVE ACCURATE INFORMATION FOR OUR ORGANIZATION AND OPPORTUNITIES. THE AUTHOR'S ORIGINAL INFLAMMATORY REVIEW MADE IT NECESSARY FOR AN ANSWER TO BE PROVIDED SO THAT READERS ARE NOT MISLED BY INACCURATE COMMENTARY.
FUTURE QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS THAT MAY RESULT FROM THESE POSTINGS CAN BE ADDRESSED BY CONTACTING US DIRECTLY.
For this reason, we are providing a basic answer in these rebuttals. Any person with questions about the specifics of our Tour, or the process we use to select artists, may contact us directly and we will take the time to directly answer all questions and correct the record.---
_______________________________________________________________________________________
WE DO NOT CHARGE ANY HIDDEN FEES RELATED TO APPLYING FOR, OR PERFORMING ON, THE TOUR:
The author of this original post has continued to confuse the primary issue here. Perhaps deliberately, and perhaps as a means to mislead.
As he should be well aware, the $ 180.00 he is referring to is not for involvement with the tour we run at all, it is a small fee charged for a completely SEPARATE service we offer only select artists who may have applied for the tour. It's completely optional and is not something any applicant must do in order to be considered for our tour. In fact, most applicants do not even have the opportunity to do so as we only invite a small pool of applicants to consider it. This is all clearly stated in the documents that the author of this original post received.
Contrary to the original author's repeated false claims, there are NO hidden or additional fees for artists applying to be part of the tour we operate. Artists that apply for the tour only pay an initial application fee. Our intent in charging that fee has been explained in our initial rebuttal to the accusatory and (in our opinion) highly offensive and demeaning post that initiated this entire thread.
It is a common practice for companies to offer more than one service or product, and to offer customers and clients the opportunity to enhance their experience by considering involvement with, or purchase of, an additional service or product that the company believes would be of interest to that customer or client. This is what we have done here. As it IS so common (Think "Super Sizing" a Value Meal for an additional charge), it is hard to understand how someone could so misunderstand our process or these additional offers.
THE IMPORTANCE OF RELATIONSHIP AND THOROUGH INFORMATION IN OUR EVALUATION:
As we stated repeatedly, we do NOT require artists to meet with us face to face in order to be considered or selected for involvement with the tour. Rather, face to face meeting opportunities are offered to artists, and in fact encouraged as we have come to believe they provide an invaluable opportunity for artists to best evaluate us, and for our team to best evaluate an artist for potential involvement.
We believe that our tour represents a significant opportunity for selected artists to impact audiences around the world with their Message and their Music. We also believe that we have created a framework for tremendous developmental opportunity for artists we select to be involved. And clearly, many artists believe this is a significant opportunity as well. Artists from all over the world have applied for, and participated on, our tour and have publicly expressed their satisfaction with that experience. We are all entitled to our opinion. You do not have to agree with it.
We reserve the right to establish any standard we desire for the projects we produce and maintain, regardless of the opinion of any of the applicants or the practices of other organizations they may be familiar with.
Certainly we desire as much input as possible in order to make the best decision possible. However, the only REQUIREMENT for an artist to be considered for potential involvement in the tour is that they file an application. Their application will be considered like any other application submitted.
INDUSTRY STANDARDS (AND OURS) FOR ARTIST EVALUATION AND NEGOTIATION:
Contrary to "Manager"'s representation, the Industry Standard is not typically limited to simply hearing an artist's music, and immediately making an offer. At least not at the level we operate in. Most significant organizations in the industry research an artist as thoroughly as possible before finalizing any potential working arrangement.(Credible) Record labels and management companies usually desire to observe a potential artist in relationship before making significant commitments. Major national or international tours and festivals like ours almost always charge a large fee in order for less established artists to even perform at all. (Hence the term: "Pay to Play") Most applicants to our tour are very familiar with these practices in the industry. It's hard to imagine someone with "over 25 years of industry experience" not knowing about this very common practice.
Unlike these organizations however, we have no "Pay to Play" fee for artists selected. Not even for the very few that we categorize as "Tier One". We do not view any of our artists as "Step Children". We simply have different levels of support to offer different levels of artists that we accept for involvement. And we contend that our standards are certainly our prerogative.
We do not have to accept artists on Tier One at all. We could just exclude them completely by rejecting their application. Rather, we choose to offer these few artists an opportunity to perform should they so desire, even if we are not offering them as much support as other artists we felt were perhaps more worth the resources we have ability to invest. Artists selected for Tier One certainly have the option of declining our proposal and not performing with us at all. That is their prerogative, after all.
The process of coming to an agreement CAN be a negotiation. But either party has the right to decline at any time. Our tier system just provides selected artists with a framework for starting that negotiation by giving them an indication of where we believe they fall in our internal negotiation and booking guidelines.
WE ALL CAN ALWAYS LEARN AND GROW:
We concur that all organizations should never stop desiring improvement and pursuing excellence. And we certainly do have much to offer each other when we share our perspectives. However, not every perspective is equally correct. It is only as good as the accuracy of the information that informs it.
With all due respect to the author of the original "review" posted on this thread, the information that informed his opinions was flawed by his misunderstanding of many basic facts about our organization or our process. By his own admission, neither he, nor the artists he claims to represent, have actually experienced our tour yet, or have participated in or experienced any of the other services we provide. The opinions the author does share are not seemingly congruent with real knowledge of the industry we are a part of.
Clearly there is seemingly some amount of misunderstanding or misrepresentation present here. We have tried to correct those misunderstandings with these rebuttals.
It is likely not prudent or beneficial to go back and forth in a setting like this with someone who has already made up their mind so emphatically without even offering us the opportunity to personally address their questions or concerns. Especially when, in our opinion, the tone of their commentary has been so accusatory, demeaning, and even mean spirited at times. To this point, we have continued this dialog in an effort to help provide clarity to those researching our tour online.
THANK YOU TO ALL WHO HAVE READ THROUGH THIS INFORMATION.
RATHER THAN BEING "DEFENSIVE", OUR CONCERN IS THAT READERS HAVE ACCURATE INFORMATION FOR OUR ORGANIZATION AND OPPORTUNITIES. THE AUTHOR'S ORIGINAL INFLAMMATORY REVIEW MADE IT NECESSARY FOR AN ANSWER TO BE PROVIDED SO THAT READERS ARE NOT MISLED BY INACCURATE COMMENTARY.
FUTURE QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS THAT MAY RESULT FROM THESE POSTINGS CAN BE ADDRESSED BY CONTACTING US DIRECTLY.
Respond to this report!
What's this? #5 Author of original report
Let The Truth Be Known
AUTHOR: Michael Abramowicz - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 14, 2013
Instead of being so quick to be defensive, you need to take a realistic and logical look at what you guys are doing and analyze your actions from an honest and unbias perspective. You're rebuttal includes words such as misrepresentation, false assumptions, cynical and disrespectful. Let's be clear, there was nothing stated that was a false statement. All of the statements are truthful, and you simply cannot rebuttal the truth. If you would like to discuss facts let's do so. The facts are as follows...
Failure To Provide Full Disclosure
From the start, your employee never mentioned any additional cost involved. You previously stated that there are no fees involved, however what do you call the $180 cost? Do you refer to that as a love offering? Let's be realistic here. Up front immediately after an artist pays the $15 registration fee they should be notified of ANY and ALL possible cost. Why is this important you may ask, let me explain. Once you accept the artist registration fee you now have an obligation to provide full disclosure out the gate. Why are you guys sending emails that involve cost after the fact? It really makes no sense. Disclose all the details out the gate, this way it stops/prevents any potential confusion.
Face To Face Meeting
Let's address this as well. As far as you guys having face to face meetings to further asses artist, my response to this is pretty basic, pure overkill. Plenty artist have and continue to perform at various venues, and let me explain how it works. The promoters hear their music, inform us how much they are willing to pay, we negotiate cost, rider, etc, sign a contract and it's done. You guys are making this process way more difficult than needed. Artist that are serious and at least in a position where they are making money from shows don't have time to jump through a million hoops in hopes you decide to let them perform. The reality of the situation is that there are way too many promoters, booking agents/agencies, clubs, lounges, and festivals that don't require nearly as much that you guys are asking for. Seriously, this advice I'm giving you is meant to serve as a wake up call. You boasted you've guys have been doing this for almost 20 years. If that's the case you need to start over.
Tier 1 Artist
Let's discuss this matter next. You previously stated "The Extreme Tour does not take a commission or percentage from any artist on any tier (and never has). However, there are a few venues that we play that may have a merchandizing fee or commission that they charge to the Tour or to artists that play there. We do not cover those costs for artists on Tier One. They are responsible to comply with local municipal and venue licensing and merchandizing policies on their own". My question is simple, who decided that Tier 1 artist become the step children of your tour? You clearly stated there are some venues that may have a merchandizing fee or commission that they charge to the Tour or to artists that play there. Again, my question is why do you guys not cover the costs for artist on Tier One? Matter of fact, if a fee is being paid it should be paid across the board. It's simply bad business to single out those artist, and I'm surprised this is a practice of yours. Because if that's the case, any artist that is told from the start "Hey, you're going to be classified as a Tier One artist" should turn around and go about their business, not worth it.
Final Assessment
There are way more problematic issues with your rebuttal, but I will stop here. Unlike your rebuttal, which is obviously highly defensive, my approach is aimed at educating consumers, and you as well. You may have good intent, but unfortunately your results are severely flawed. If you can't be honest enough to take a realistic look at your actions then that's an issue you need to deal with on your own time. No business is perfect, but every real company should make it their business to be perfect. The Extreme Tour is far from that goal.
Failure To Provide Full Disclosure
From the start, your employee never mentioned any additional cost involved. You previously stated that there are no fees involved, however what do you call the $180 cost? Do you refer to that as a love offering? Let's be realistic here. Up front immediately after an artist pays the $15 registration fee they should be notified of ANY and ALL possible cost. Why is this important you may ask, let me explain. Once you accept the artist registration fee you now have an obligation to provide full disclosure out the gate. Why are you guys sending emails that involve cost after the fact? It really makes no sense. Disclose all the details out the gate, this way it stops/prevents any potential confusion.
Face To Face Meeting
Let's address this as well. As far as you guys having face to face meetings to further asses artist, my response to this is pretty basic, pure overkill. Plenty artist have and continue to perform at various venues, and let me explain how it works. The promoters hear their music, inform us how much they are willing to pay, we negotiate cost, rider, etc, sign a contract and it's done. You guys are making this process way more difficult than needed. Artist that are serious and at least in a position where they are making money from shows don't have time to jump through a million hoops in hopes you decide to let them perform. The reality of the situation is that there are way too many promoters, booking agents/agencies, clubs, lounges, and festivals that don't require nearly as much that you guys are asking for. Seriously, this advice I'm giving you is meant to serve as a wake up call. You boasted you've guys have been doing this for almost 20 years. If that's the case you need to start over.
Tier 1 Artist
Let's discuss this matter next. You previously stated "The Extreme Tour does not take a commission or percentage from any artist on any tier (and never has). However, there are a few venues that we play that may have a merchandizing fee or commission that they charge to the Tour or to artists that play there. We do not cover those costs for artists on Tier One. They are responsible to comply with local municipal and venue licensing and merchandizing policies on their own". My question is simple, who decided that Tier 1 artist become the step children of your tour? You clearly stated there are some venues that may have a merchandizing fee or commission that they charge to the Tour or to artists that play there. Again, my question is why do you guys not cover the costs for artist on Tier One? Matter of fact, if a fee is being paid it should be paid across the board. It's simply bad business to single out those artist, and I'm surprised this is a practice of yours. Because if that's the case, any artist that is told from the start "Hey, you're going to be classified as a Tier One artist" should turn around and go about their business, not worth it.
Final Assessment
There are way more problematic issues with your rebuttal, but I will stop here. Unlike your rebuttal, which is obviously highly defensive, my approach is aimed at educating consumers, and you as well. You may have good intent, but unfortunately your results are severely flawed. If you can't be honest enough to take a realistic look at your actions then that's an issue you need to deal with on your own time. No business is perfect, but every real company should make it their business to be perfect. The Extreme Tour is far from that goal.
Respond to this report!
What's this? #6 UPDATE Employee
The Above Report And Speculation Are Untrue
AUTHOR: XT Administration - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 13, 2013
---The person filing this report has made several misrepresentations regarding our Organization and the process we use to select artists. Any person with questions about the specifics of our Tour, or the process we use to select artists, may contact us directly and we will take the time to directly answer all questions and correct the record.---
WHO WE ARE:
We are a non profit organization that seeks to positively impact culture through artistic expression and outreach. One of our longest running projects is the production of an Extreme Sports and Music Outreach Tour. This tour has been in operation for almost 20 years and now visits many countries around the world. We have worked with a very large number of artists and there is quite a bit of information available about us online. Band testimonials are available on our site, but also on many other public and objective sites we do not control. We would strongly urge anyone to review all the information available and not just review the documents or information we send out.
While we are frustrated at the false assumptions and misrepresentations demonstrated in the above report, we welcome the opportunity to correct the record and provide true information who we are and about how we operate.
OUR A&R RECRUITING AND APPLICATION PROCESS:
Several of our A&R Staff are tasked with attending shows, searching online, and seeking referrals for new artists for our lineup. When they find an artist they think might be appropriate for our tour, they engage them in a dialog, and invite them to consider applying with the benefit of their recommendation.
The small fee requested is a device meant to limit applications to only artists that are serious about touring. We learned that a free submission seemingly invited applications sent too easily from artists not ready to accept an offer should we extend one. Our application fee is actually much smaller than most or all other similar opportunities we are aware of.
OUR ARTIST SELECTION PROCESS:
As we indicate in the information sent to artists after they apply, we make selections in rounds and we group our selections in tiers. This is fairly standard in the industry. The more we believe an artist is beneficial to the Tour and it's mission, the higher they will be placed in our tier system. The higher they are in that system, the more we will be willing to invest in them while they are with us. Some artists will be selected for Tier Three, our highest tier. Only a couple of artists, on average will likely be selected for Tier One, our lowest tier. Most Artists selected will be assigned to Tier Two.
The Extreme Tour does not take a commission or percentage from any artist on any tier (and never has). However, there are a few venues that we play that may have a merchandising fee or commission that they charge to the Tour or to artists that play there. We do not cover those costs for artists on Tier One. They are responsible to comply with local municipal and venue licensing and merchandising policies on their own.
It's worth noting that most major tours or festivals DO take a percentage of the merchandise sales of the artists that perform. That is "Industry Standard". We simply have never done this as an organization ourselves. That is stated explicitly on the application page where artists file their applications.
THE LENGTH AND DETAIL OF THE DOCUMENTS WE SEND APPLICANTS:
It should be noted that the report filed by this anonymous "manager" only includes portions of correspondence we have only sent to Applicants who have already filed an application, and are not mass communications with random artists as this "manager" represented at all.
It also must be noted that the segments this person included in their report have been significantly altered and edited from the original documents we sent. Sections (even sentence fragments) have been taken out of context, moved around, and inserted out of order in a seeming attempt to mock, discredit, exaggerate, and perhaps even mislead. The resulting text does not present an accurate or complete picture of the original document sent to the artists we selected to advance to the next stage of our selection process.
The original document this reviewer is referencing is lengthy as it is not simply an email sent to artists, but is actually a booklet written for applicants who are being seriously considered for our Tour (as we indicated in the emails we sent this "manager's" artist).
OUR INVITATION TO MEET FACE TO FACE WITH OUR STAFF:
This information is actually only sent to artists who have already applied and who have been invited to attend, a FREE "By Invitation" series of meetings with our staff as part of the Artist Selection process. Artists are NOT required to attend these meetings in order to be considered for inclusion in our lineup. Naturally though, we desire face to face meetings with artists we are seriously considering so that we can better evaluate them.
This also gives them an opportunity to meet us and consider our tour more adequately. The meetings are presented at great expense to our organization and are offered to a select group as a courtesy, not as a product being sold or marketed. Contrary to this "Report"'s assertions and inference, We do not charge any fee or admission at all for invited artists to attend these meetings or to meet with us. That is EXPLICITLY stated in the information that was sent to the artist this "Manager" represents.
OUR INDUSTRY FRIENDS AND THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN THESE MEETINGS:
In addition to offering these invited artists an opportunity to meet with us face to face, we also arrange for a number of our industry friends to come and share advice with these artists on how they can excel in their pursuit of their craft. Our Industry friends, like our staff, are not paid for their involvement, and do not charge, for their participation in these meetings. They volunteer their time to these invited artists as an attempt to serve them in their Calling and as a goodwill gesture to select applicants. This is a cooperative effort to mentor and assist young artists.
It is a cynical and disrespectful thing to slander their contribution or this effort.
The list of Industry Professionals involved is also lengthy and often includes last minute changes as plans or speaker schedules change. A list is not included in the initial documents for that reason, but is released later in the process, and even released publicly in various press releases and on our Organization's Twitter Account and through other Social Media. It is certainly not hidden.
We DO provide a section on who has participated in the past (Tom Jackson is listed for example) as a general description of who will be involved. We would have been happy to provide a more detailed tentative list for this "manager" had he requested one. He did not, choosing instead to presumptuously draw conclusions and publicly slander our reputation. Again, we do not charge any fees or admission for invited artists to attend this series of meetings.
SEPARATE OPPORTUNITIES WE OFFER ARTISTS TO ENHANCE THEIR TIME WHILE MEETING WITH US:
We do offer three different and additional options to artists that we invite to these meetings that are separate from the opportunity to meet with is and our industry friends.
1. A select group of artists, if they so desire, may have their CD and promotional materials distributed to Industry Professionals participating during these meetings. A relatively small fee is charged for this service and those funds go to defray the costs incurred to facilitate that distribution, with any remnant going to defray the significant cost of the meetings we invited them to. However, Artists are not required to sign up for this service in order to attend the meetings. It is an optional service offered only to artists that feel such an opportunity would be beneficial for them.
If an artist DOES register for this opportunity, they do receive priority inclusion in the meetings we are facilitating as a portion of their contribution may in fact help fund the expense of presenting them. Space is limited so that might make a difference if we are running out of room.
But again, artists are NOT required to register for this opportunity in order to attend the meetings we invited them to.
2. A much smaller group of artists, if they so desire, may even have the opportunity to perform and be critiqued during these meetings we invited them to. Space is very limited and we do not even allow most artists to perform as there is not adequate time to do so. However, if an artist desires to not just attend but to also perform and be critiqued, we will consider them for one of the few slots available.
If we do select them for that opportunity, we do ask them to pay a fee that represents their portion of the rental of the venue and production to facilitate their performance. However, not only are they not required to incur these costs by performing and being critiqued by our Industry Panel during these meetings, most artists will not even be offered the opportunity to opt to do so based simply on the time constraints.
This is a completely additional opportunity that we do not require any artist to participate in in order to attend these meetings or be considered for our Tour.
3. Over the past couple years, Tom Jackson (Perhaps the leading Live Music Producer in the world) and his team have conducted an intimate workshop for a select group of the artists attending. Tom does charge a fee for participation in that workshop. But this is offered at a dramatically discounted rate from his other events, and is a completely separate opportunity offered alongside our meetings and not as a part of them.
This workshop is represented as a separate and completely optional activity for artists to participate in should they feel so inclined. We do not collect any of those fees or receive any commission. It is offered merely as a courtesy to artists. There are testimonies posted elsewhere from artists about the incredible value they felt this opportunity was.
We are proud of esteemed "A-List" partners and friends like Tom Jackson.
Again, however, this is a completely additional opportunity that we do not require any artist to participate in in order to attend these meetings or be considered for our Tour.
THE BOTTOM LINE:
I think the primary misunderstanding this "Manager" has is the assumption that we are a business, and that an artist's attendance of these face to face meetings, or their acceptance on the Extreme Tour, is conditional on their participation in these separate opportunities.
This is not correct, and we repeatedly state that artists are NOT required to be a part of these opportunities to attend or potentially be selected for the Extreme Tour. I am not sure we could possibly be any clearer.
In fact, as in this rebuttal, it is the necessity of being so clear that has made many of our documents so lengthy. In an effort to be understood, we also make ourselves available by phone or email for any questions that may arise. It is disappointing that this "Manager" did not take advantage of that accessibility.
OUR INVITATION TO THOSE READING THIS:
We invite any person reading this rebuttal to do what this "Manager" did not. Feel free to contact us directly with any questions or concerns. We will be happy to provide answers and address any concerns you may have.
IN RECOGNITION OF SERVICE ABOVE AND BEYOND:
By the way, I want to recognize Martay Williams for her exemplary service to artists and to our organization.
Not only (like virtually every other member of the staff) is she an artist from our past roster, but she has also led a Tour Team across the East Coast of the United States for us, and she now helps us select the artists for future rosters. Like the rest of the staff, she raises her own support in order to participate in this grassroots artistic movement.
She did not deserve the slanderous ridicule this person heaped on her.
She deserves to be honored and I wanted to take the opportunity to do so here.
WHO WE ARE:
We are a non profit organization that seeks to positively impact culture through artistic expression and outreach. One of our longest running projects is the production of an Extreme Sports and Music Outreach Tour. This tour has been in operation for almost 20 years and now visits many countries around the world. We have worked with a very large number of artists and there is quite a bit of information available about us online. Band testimonials are available on our site, but also on many other public and objective sites we do not control. We would strongly urge anyone to review all the information available and not just review the documents or information we send out.
While we are frustrated at the false assumptions and misrepresentations demonstrated in the above report, we welcome the opportunity to correct the record and provide true information who we are and about how we operate.
OUR A&R RECRUITING AND APPLICATION PROCESS:
Several of our A&R Staff are tasked with attending shows, searching online, and seeking referrals for new artists for our lineup. When they find an artist they think might be appropriate for our tour, they engage them in a dialog, and invite them to consider applying with the benefit of their recommendation.
The small fee requested is a device meant to limit applications to only artists that are serious about touring. We learned that a free submission seemingly invited applications sent too easily from artists not ready to accept an offer should we extend one. Our application fee is actually much smaller than most or all other similar opportunities we are aware of.
OUR ARTIST SELECTION PROCESS:
As we indicate in the information sent to artists after they apply, we make selections in rounds and we group our selections in tiers. This is fairly standard in the industry. The more we believe an artist is beneficial to the Tour and it's mission, the higher they will be placed in our tier system. The higher they are in that system, the more we will be willing to invest in them while they are with us. Some artists will be selected for Tier Three, our highest tier. Only a couple of artists, on average will likely be selected for Tier One, our lowest tier. Most Artists selected will be assigned to Tier Two.
The Extreme Tour does not take a commission or percentage from any artist on any tier (and never has). However, there are a few venues that we play that may have a merchandising fee or commission that they charge to the Tour or to artists that play there. We do not cover those costs for artists on Tier One. They are responsible to comply with local municipal and venue licensing and merchandising policies on their own.
It's worth noting that most major tours or festivals DO take a percentage of the merchandise sales of the artists that perform. That is "Industry Standard". We simply have never done this as an organization ourselves. That is stated explicitly on the application page where artists file their applications.
THE LENGTH AND DETAIL OF THE DOCUMENTS WE SEND APPLICANTS:
It should be noted that the report filed by this anonymous "manager" only includes portions of correspondence we have only sent to Applicants who have already filed an application, and are not mass communications with random artists as this "manager" represented at all.
It also must be noted that the segments this person included in their report have been significantly altered and edited from the original documents we sent. Sections (even sentence fragments) have been taken out of context, moved around, and inserted out of order in a seeming attempt to mock, discredit, exaggerate, and perhaps even mislead. The resulting text does not present an accurate or complete picture of the original document sent to the artists we selected to advance to the next stage of our selection process.
The original document this reviewer is referencing is lengthy as it is not simply an email sent to artists, but is actually a booklet written for applicants who are being seriously considered for our Tour (as we indicated in the emails we sent this "manager's" artist).
OUR INVITATION TO MEET FACE TO FACE WITH OUR STAFF:
This information is actually only sent to artists who have already applied and who have been invited to attend, a FREE "By Invitation" series of meetings with our staff as part of the Artist Selection process. Artists are NOT required to attend these meetings in order to be considered for inclusion in our lineup. Naturally though, we desire face to face meetings with artists we are seriously considering so that we can better evaluate them.
This also gives them an opportunity to meet us and consider our tour more adequately. The meetings are presented at great expense to our organization and are offered to a select group as a courtesy, not as a product being sold or marketed. Contrary to this "Report"'s assertions and inference, We do not charge any fee or admission at all for invited artists to attend these meetings or to meet with us. That is EXPLICITLY stated in the information that was sent to the artist this "Manager" represents.
OUR INDUSTRY FRIENDS AND THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN THESE MEETINGS:
In addition to offering these invited artists an opportunity to meet with us face to face, we also arrange for a number of our industry friends to come and share advice with these artists on how they can excel in their pursuit of their craft. Our Industry friends, like our staff, are not paid for their involvement, and do not charge, for their participation in these meetings. They volunteer their time to these invited artists as an attempt to serve them in their Calling and as a goodwill gesture to select applicants. This is a cooperative effort to mentor and assist young artists.
It is a cynical and disrespectful thing to slander their contribution or this effort.
The list of Industry Professionals involved is also lengthy and often includes last minute changes as plans or speaker schedules change. A list is not included in the initial documents for that reason, but is released later in the process, and even released publicly in various press releases and on our Organization's Twitter Account and through other Social Media. It is certainly not hidden.
We DO provide a section on who has participated in the past (Tom Jackson is listed for example) as a general description of who will be involved. We would have been happy to provide a more detailed tentative list for this "manager" had he requested one. He did not, choosing instead to presumptuously draw conclusions and publicly slander our reputation. Again, we do not charge any fees or admission for invited artists to attend this series of meetings.
SEPARATE OPPORTUNITIES WE OFFER ARTISTS TO ENHANCE THEIR TIME WHILE MEETING WITH US:
We do offer three different and additional options to artists that we invite to these meetings that are separate from the opportunity to meet with is and our industry friends.
1. A select group of artists, if they so desire, may have their CD and promotional materials distributed to Industry Professionals participating during these meetings. A relatively small fee is charged for this service and those funds go to defray the costs incurred to facilitate that distribution, with any remnant going to defray the significant cost of the meetings we invited them to. However, Artists are not required to sign up for this service in order to attend the meetings. It is an optional service offered only to artists that feel such an opportunity would be beneficial for them.
If an artist DOES register for this opportunity, they do receive priority inclusion in the meetings we are facilitating as a portion of their contribution may in fact help fund the expense of presenting them. Space is limited so that might make a difference if we are running out of room.
But again, artists are NOT required to register for this opportunity in order to attend the meetings we invited them to.
2. A much smaller group of artists, if they so desire, may even have the opportunity to perform and be critiqued during these meetings we invited them to. Space is very limited and we do not even allow most artists to perform as there is not adequate time to do so. However, if an artist desires to not just attend but to also perform and be critiqued, we will consider them for one of the few slots available.
If we do select them for that opportunity, we do ask them to pay a fee that represents their portion of the rental of the venue and production to facilitate their performance. However, not only are they not required to incur these costs by performing and being critiqued by our Industry Panel during these meetings, most artists will not even be offered the opportunity to opt to do so based simply on the time constraints.
This is a completely additional opportunity that we do not require any artist to participate in in order to attend these meetings or be considered for our Tour.
3. Over the past couple years, Tom Jackson (Perhaps the leading Live Music Producer in the world) and his team have conducted an intimate workshop for a select group of the artists attending. Tom does charge a fee for participation in that workshop. But this is offered at a dramatically discounted rate from his other events, and is a completely separate opportunity offered alongside our meetings and not as a part of them.
This workshop is represented as a separate and completely optional activity for artists to participate in should they feel so inclined. We do not collect any of those fees or receive any commission. It is offered merely as a courtesy to artists. There are testimonies posted elsewhere from artists about the incredible value they felt this opportunity was.
We are proud of esteemed "A-List" partners and friends like Tom Jackson.
Again, however, this is a completely additional opportunity that we do not require any artist to participate in in order to attend these meetings or be considered for our Tour.
THE BOTTOM LINE:
I think the primary misunderstanding this "Manager" has is the assumption that we are a business, and that an artist's attendance of these face to face meetings, or their acceptance on the Extreme Tour, is conditional on their participation in these separate opportunities.
This is not correct, and we repeatedly state that artists are NOT required to be a part of these opportunities to attend or potentially be selected for the Extreme Tour. I am not sure we could possibly be any clearer.
In fact, as in this rebuttal, it is the necessity of being so clear that has made many of our documents so lengthy. In an effort to be understood, we also make ourselves available by phone or email for any questions that may arise. It is disappointing that this "Manager" did not take advantage of that accessibility.
OUR INVITATION TO THOSE READING THIS:
We invite any person reading this rebuttal to do what this "Manager" did not. Feel free to contact us directly with any questions or concerns. We will be happy to provide answers and address any concerns you may have.
IN RECOGNITION OF SERVICE ABOVE AND BEYOND:
By the way, I want to recognize Martay Williams for her exemplary service to artists and to our organization.
Not only (like virtually every other member of the staff) is she an artist from our past roster, but she has also led a Tour Team across the East Coast of the United States for us, and she now helps us select the artists for future rosters. Like the rest of the staff, she raises her own support in order to participate in this grassroots artistic movement.
She did not deserve the slanderous ridicule this person heaped on her.
She deserves to be honored and I wanted to take the opportunity to do so here.
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