• Report: #166628

Complaint Review: Toys R Us

  • Submitted: Fri, December 02, 2005
  • Updated: Tue, January 27, 2009

  • Reported By:Sanford Florida
Toys R Us
101 Towne Center Blvd Sanford, Florida U.S.A.

Toys R Us Bait And Switch Ripoff Sanford Florida

*UPDATE Employee: So many reasons for this

*UPDATE Employee: Interesting debate

*UPDATE Employee: Interesting debate

*UPDATE Employee: Interesting debate

*Consumer Comment: Holding An Item

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: regarding Denny's current viewpoint

*Consumer Comment: wil, you're still deluded

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Responding to all recent posts

*Consumer Comment: It isnt bait and switch

*Consumer Comment: It is BAS

*Consumer Comment: Pretty much how I thought you'd respond

*Consumer Comment: Aladia missed the point, as does Will

*Consumer Comment: TRU

*Consumer Comment: Okay..........

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: re: confused

*Consumer Comment: Ummm. I think I'm a little confused now.

*Consumer Comment: Wil the hypocrite; Doesn't take his own advice

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: I rest my case

*Consumer Comment: Will ,once you attack someones grammar and spelling, you've already lost the argument

*Author of original report: Denny, for the last time... I have addressed every single point you have mentioned

*Consumer Comment: No bias to anyone, Wil., again your perception fails you

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: I rest my case Denny

*Consumer Comment: Wil, the simplest explanation is always the right one

*Author of original report: I find no fault in her opinions nor in how she perceived the event to be. I do, however, still disagree with her.

*Consumer Comment: Of course Robert is delusional as well

*Consumer Comment: I still don't see why you are so mad

*Consumer Suggestion: Huh???

*Consumer Comment: TRU does Bait and switch. DENNY

*Consumer Comment: UPDATE With regards to all the responses I have received...

*Consumer Comment: UPDATE With regards to all the responses I have received...

*Consumer Comment: UPDATE With regards to all the responses I have received...

*Consumer Comment: UPDATE With regards to all the responses I have received...

*Consumer Comment: I see that your story changes.

*Consumer Comment: Bait and Switch? Give me a break, please

*Consumer Comment: Agree with Denny

*Consumer Comment: RE: lazy employee response

*Consumer Comment: bait and switch? nah. Lazy employee? yes

*Consumer Comment: bait and switch? nah. Lazy employee? yes

*Consumer Comment: bait and switch? nah. Lazy employee? yes

*Consumer Comment: Then why would they tell us differently when my wife called?

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: It goes to show how incompetent TRU is

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My wife and I receive periodic coupons in our email for different stores. On 12/1/05, we received one for a Children's Karoake machine at a very good price from Toys R Us. The catch was the sale was for one day only, no rainchecks, and it couldn't be purchased online.

Therefore, my wife called the local Toys R Us, to confirm that they had a unit available. The girl that my wife spoke to stated that they still had a couple of units available. As a result, I drove up to purchase the item and maybe a few other items as well.

I was unable to locate the Karoake Machine that was on sale, so asked for assistance from the clerk. The clerk told me that they not only have not had that unit all day today, but that they've been sold out all week. However, I could purchase another one of the units as they weren't that much more expensive.

The manager of that section, hearing of what we were told over the phone, was kind enough to check out the truck that had just arrived. She then checked other stores in the area and no one had this item. As a result, I have filed a complaint with Toys R Us and with the BBB. The results of their actions clearly point to getting customers into their stores with a great deal, but without even carrying stock for such a deal and then covering it up by lying about it on the phone.

Will
Sanford, Florida
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/02/2005 09:19 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Toys-R-Us/Sanford-Florida-32771/Toys-R-Us-Bait-And-Switch-Ripoff-Sanford-Florida-166628. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 36Consumer 5Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 UPDATE Employee

So many reasons for this

AUTHOR: Missa - (U.S.A.)

We never intentionally do this. Sometimes people only look it up in the computer inventory. It will say there are 2 on the floor. She says yes sir! We have 2 in stock!

Does she look? No. The inventory is off all the time in the computer. People steal. Items get damaged. Items get put somewhere they don't belong.

It can do the same thing with a case in the back of them. Someone doesn't scan it out, and it looks like there are some on the shelf & some in the back.

OR!! Maybe there were like 10 when you called, and they sold out. I've seen it happen. If there is one really hot item, people will LINE UP OUTSIDE HOURS BEFORE WE OPEN to get it. I've seen people line up over the silliest things.

I'd vote it was the employee not going to look. She could have given the call to someone else that was able to physically check. That's actually what she was supposed to do.

It is required that we offer you an alternative item. It isn't trying to get you to buy something more expensive, it is just to try to show good customer service.
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#2 UPDATE Employee

Interesting debate

AUTHOR: Debra - (U.S.A.)

First off, I'll be honest, I am an employee at a Babies R Us. Believe me I show no bias towards Toys R Us. Infact I'm embarrassed to be associated with them. There is no doubt they are rude, incompetent, and ignorant there. I cringe anytime a customer asks me to call a TRU to find a product. I can tell you that the associates do not work on commission, nor recieve bonuses. It is true that managers recieve some kind of bonus at the end of the year depending on sales.

However, it has never been my experience to bait and switch customers and I have certainly not been directed to by management. Honestly, the associate is probably a moron thats about it. No associate wants to tell a customer we have something and then have them come in and not have it. You know why? They make like $7.50 an hour and really don't want to listen to you complain. The manager did attempt to find you the product at another store and check the truck that had come in. What else would you like him to do? Pull it out of his behind???
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#3 UPDATE Employee

Interesting debate

AUTHOR: Debra - (U.S.A.)

First off, I'll be honest, I am an employee at a Babies R Us. Believe me I show no bias towards Toys R Us. Infact I'm embarrassed to be associated with them. There is no doubt they are rude, incompetent, and ignorant there. I cringe anytime a customer asks me to call a TRU to find a product. I can tell you that the associates do not work on commission, nor recieve bonuses. It is true that managers recieve some kind of bonus at the end of the year depending on sales.

However, it has never been my experience to bait and switch customers and I have certainly not been directed to by management. Honestly, the associate is probably a moron thats about it. No associate wants to tell a customer we have something and then have them come in and not have it. You know why? They make like $7.50 an hour and really don't want to listen to you complain. The manager did attempt to find you the product at another store and check the truck that had come in. What else would you like him to do? Pull it out of his behind???
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#4 UPDATE Employee

Interesting debate

AUTHOR: Debra - (U.S.A.)

First off, I'll be honest, I am an employee at a Babies R Us. Believe me I show no bias towards Toys R Us. Infact I'm embarrassed to be associated with them. There is no doubt they are rude, incompetent, and ignorant there. I cringe anytime a customer asks me to call a TRU to find a product. I can tell you that the associates do not work on commission, nor recieve bonuses. It is true that managers recieve some kind of bonus at the end of the year depending on sales.

However, it has never been my experience to bait and switch customers and I have certainly not been directed to by management. Honestly, the associate is probably a moron thats about it. No associate wants to tell a customer we have something and then have them come in and not have it. You know why? They make like $7.50 an hour and really don't want to listen to you complain. The manager did attempt to find you the product at another store and check the truck that had come in. What else would you like him to do? Pull it out of his behind???
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#5 Consumer Comment

Holding An Item

AUTHOR: Aladia - (U.S.A.)

In my experience, most stores will ask if they can hold an item for you if you call to inquire about availibility. Most,not all. I still don't really see this as a BAS, but I do think TRU as done an excellent job in losing a customer over something that could have been easily rectified. Stores don't care about customers these days because they know that five will take the place of the one they lose. You're also dealing with employees that work crappy hours for crappy wages......what do they care if they piss a few customers off.


And Will: I'm sure you figured this out by now but the best thing to do is just ignore Denny. He always takes the opposite argument of the poster of any ROR. There are a few cases where he's right, but I think that's merely chance because of his practice of always disagreeing with the customer. Mostly, he just comes off as a jerk. He's rude, ignorant, arrogant and TROLLISH.
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#6 REBUTTAL Individual responds

regarding Denny's current viewpoint

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

Denny,

In regards to your response:

I did not state please hold the item for me. You are correct sir, in that fact. My wife did state that I was on my way up there, so it was implied. However, I understand that implying is not the same thing. Still, you missed the main point. If you read my initial post, the girl at the counter stated quite clearly that they had been out of stock on that item for the past week(this was after I was in the store...see original post for any clarification). Therefore, your comments in this post are baseless.

I have no problem with you playing devil's advocate, however would ask that you a) read the posts already here before asking a question and b)lose the trollish attitude. If you have a new question and can ask it in an adult manner, then I'll be happy to address it, however, from this point on, I refuse to address any comment you make that is not in the interest of civilized debate.

After all, would you like it if I called you an uneducated, physically devoid, mentally impaired, morally unbalanced, socially maladjusted, spiritually malnurished, psychologically impaired 8 year old with the diction of a preschool third world farmer's son that offers less to this conversation than the cow droppings that pile up in said farmer's lot? No, of course you wouldn't and so I will refrain from the namecalling, but will instead prefer to stay on topic with those that are interested in real questions and answers, without being judgemental towards a properly offered difference of opinion.

Have ya noticed, Denny, that others have disagreed with me and I've still had amicable posts with them? This might be a good lesson to learn if you want people to listen to anything you have to say and should have been something learned already from all those past years of "customer service".
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#7 Consumer Comment

wil, you're still deluded

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

Consumers take responsibility in making sure they understand what they are getting themselves into

YOu never once said through this report if you asked for them hold the item.

Again, Everything has to be a big "conspiracy" against the consumer, when as explained numerous times, that a simple MISTAKE on the employees part is probably to blame for your not getting a TOY karaoke machine (heaven forbid, why would you want to get one from TRU is a question in itself).

If they didn't hold, and sold out between the time you called and the time you got there, you only have yourself to blame.

Agian, not BAS happened, just in your "confused, angry that you were wronged, I can't see it any other way" mind.

Responsibiliyt on your part was to ask to hold the item for you. YOu didn't.
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#8 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Responding to all recent posts

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

I'll first respond to Leticia...

Leticia, my personal belief is that, while not impossible, it is improbable to me that no Toys R Us store would have the product that they advertised for, especially when said product was found with a competitor. I realize that I am not the only one who uses the internet to search for deals, however I find it difficult to believe that the majority of those in my area use it like you and I do. It could have happened, as I have stated repeatedly before, however I do not believe it is so, based SOLELY on my experience. As stated before, I'm not someone who hunts for an excuse to throw a company under the bus, nor do I randomly post on every subpar experience I've had with the conclusion that the company is out to get me. While I could be wrong, until TRU can offer contradictory evidence that pertains directly to my experience, I will stick by my opinion in this case.

Aladia...Thank you for the update on Denny the Troll. It explains a few things.

Denny...glad to see you stand by me with THE CUSTOMER MUST TAKE RESPONSABILITY line. That's what I'm doing; taking responsability for what I perceive as an improper action on TRU's behalf. The rest of your opinions cater to apathy and big business self interest. Customer Service is the largest reason as to why companies grow bigger. That is why it remains such a large focus in most industries. The customer may not always be right, but you must always treat the customer with respect and with an understanding of that customer's perspective; otherwise, you lose the customer forever. You are correct in that rainchecks do not need to be offered, nor does any company have to offer a high level of customer service. They do so, however, in order to make sure their customer is happy and shops with them again. I have plenty of toy stores in my area that are happy to have my consumer dollars and are extremely happy that TRU has turned one more customer to them. I decided to not only shop elsewhere but to also vocally share my experience so that I take a few fellow shoppers with me. TRU helped me to make that decision with (what I perceived) as terrible Customer Service(through BAS). As to the rest of the inflammatory statements you make, take them elsewhere. These posts are for adults that can communicate a diversified set of opinions without resorting to playground namecalling. You may have a different opinion and you may even share it with others, but do so as an adult and not as an extremist.

Sheila...thank you for your opinion of my posts. If I reach even one person, then I have done the job I set out to do...
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#9 Consumer Comment

It isnt bait and switch

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

And if the advertisements state that no rainchcecks will be given, then NO rainchecks will be given.

Read the fine print.
Read your advertisements
READ the store policies.

End of story.


and a store does'nt have to by ANY law, offer a raincheck for an out of stock item.
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#10 Consumer Comment

It is BAS

AUTHOR: Sheila - (U.S.A.)

I have to agree with the original poster that it was a case of bait and switch. If no toys r us within 30 miles had the product and the store in question did not have one for over a week then it is BAS. If it were truly a case of corporate advertising before stores get the product then the store should have offered a rain check. It is one thing if a store runs out but quite another if they never had the inventory in the first place.
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#11 Consumer Comment

Pretty much how I thought you'd respond

AUTHOR: Aladia - (U.S.A.)

Denny I couldn't look more ignorant and uneducated than you if I tried. I merely posted an observation. If there is no truth to it, why take such offense? Why not just give links to other ROR's you have posted kind helpful replies to to prove me wrong?
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#12 Consumer Comment

Aladia missed the point, as does Will

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

NO, aladia, you're 100% wrong

And of course, you dont understand my position nor have you even guessed it. Im not a troll, but have dealt with many in the past (both in real life and on the net). You Aladia, are a troll as well.

Customer is always wrong? Where did i say that? No, Aladia, you have also gone and misread my postings;

I will maintain that THE CUSTOMER MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for any situation that they get themselves into.

And that involves:
1) knowing the product they are buying
2) knowing the store policies on returns, refunds, exchanges.
3) educate themselves on any warranty that the product they buy may have, and if the store has any warranties on the same product.

The customer is NEVER always right. They are right 'most' of the time, but never ALWAYS right. Customres/consumers must take responsibility for what they do and not blame companies for their mistakes. Its not TRU, CC, or whatever company, if a customer leaves without fully understanding what they agreed to when they make a purchase. Its not hte companies responsibility to make sure the customer knows their policies.

As they say, ignorance is no defense, and ignorance of polcies, procedures, and the product gives NO customer any reason to blame the company for anything that goes wrong.

Aladia, I suggest that you keep your ideas to yourself, until you educate yourself more. You only make yourself, part of the problem, instead of part of the solution.
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#13 Consumer Comment

TRU

AUTHOR: Aladia - (U.S.A.)

If TRU did not make the situation right that day, they are not going to. I think that it may have been more that the employee wanted to get you off the phone and didn't check to make sure the item was really in. I really don't think it was a bait and switch. Maybe it was a tactic just to get you in the store, but I tend to go with an employee just wanting to get you off the phone so they could continue with their jobs. You may be better off checking websites for inventory of the store you intend to go to. Some have individual store inventory on their websites.

Here's the deal with Denny: I have seen him on numerous reports on many different companies and his line never, ever changes---The customer is always wrong. It doesn't matter if TRU had hit you over the head, stole your wallet and anally raped you, in Denny's eyes you would be wrong because you are the customer. Take a glance at Rip Off Reports filed today and I will almost bet you will see Denny posting away with circular logic of "Well, you're the customer----so you have to be wrong." He seems to always take the opposite side no matter what the argument. On message boards, he would be called a troll.
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#14 Consumer Comment

Okay..........

AUTHOR: Leticia - (U.S.A.)

So it wouldn't be BAS if it was Black Friday. But it will be for a one day extra sale?

Oh, I know, you are the only person who EVER looks for sites and bargains sent to them through the internet.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but most people look for that. In fact I myself am a member of many of those sites.

One day sales make some people go almost as crazy as BF. It may still have been that way in your case.
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#15 REBUTTAL Individual responds

re: confused

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

Regarding his acumen, I was being sarcastic in stating that due to his keen insight of the problem, he and I will obviously never see eye to eye.

You are correct with regards to my insight and my unwavering view that it will always be BAS in this one circumstance.

You are incorrect in that BAS always deals with something in stock. The primary use of BAS is by offering an item, then stating that it is not in stock and offering another product instead. It can be used with in stock items, but more known cases(at least that I've been able to locate) have involved out of stock items.

With regards to black Friday and BAS, I would agree with you that it would be unreasonable to consider that BAS is being used as a tactic, however it is possible. Still, my date was not on black Friday nor was it on a weekend, but on a (failing memory as to the exact day but pretty sure) Thursday. The coupon solicited that you could purchase the item in the store only and on that day only and the coupon only went out the day before. While it is possible that the item was sold out of every Toys R Us in the area and that everyone in my area had both subscribed for the e-coupon and beat me to the store, it is (to me at least) highly improbable.

One last consideration to note. I did purchase the item in question for an extra $20 at the Walmart less than 10 miles away from the Toys R Us(they had a few on the shelf) the following weekend.
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#16 Consumer Comment

Ummm. I think I'm a little confused now.

AUTHOR: Leticia - (U.S.A.)

What does his acumen (keen insight) have to do with him and you seeing eye to eye.

His insight into this situation comes from working in retail for many years and probably dealing with a similiar situation.

Your insight comes from what you perceived to have happened, and no matter what anyone else says it will always be BAS, to you.

BTW it was in my understanding that Bait and Switch was to offer something at a low price and then when people come to buy said sale item that IS in stock, still try and push them towards a higher priced one that by talking it up and even sometimes refusing to even allow the consumer to purchase the other item on sale.

If it was that they sold out of a product, then could you imagine all of the BAS complaints and cases that would be made on Black Friday?
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#17 Consumer Comment

Wil the hypocrite; Doesn't take his own advice

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

I rest my case. That diatribe alone only puts a nail in the coffin, of an already low credibility.

Wil, you've proven yet again, that attacking others is the only thing you can do, because you've already lost this argument. Resorting to adhominem attacks or attacks a person's posting style, is indicative of a person who no longer has anything to stand on; which in this report, already proven that you didn't have one to begin with.

Wil, get a life, get a job, go workout or do soemthing. You're getting worked up over a Karaoke machine that was from a TOY STORE. If you want a karaoke machine, goto a REAL electronics store and buy one (they are cheap now). If you did buy the one from a TOY STORE, you'd probably be bitching and moaning about its low quality anyway.
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#18 REBUTTAL Individual responds

I rest my case

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

Denny, your response lacks merit and is, quite frankly, humorous. To use technology as your scapegoat for presenting your idea poorly is laughable. Print out your responses, take them to anyone that you consider intelligent, do NOT tell them that you typed them(so you have no bias) and ask them the following question; "How seriously would you take this person's argument?"

I'm not here to debase you nor critique your Education level, Denny. The comment was a suggestion that you obviously missed the boat on. It was based on a decision that people would take your comments more seriously if you spell their names correctly or correctly type out 3 and 4 letter words. Your initial comment of "The internet allows people to post as they see fit, and who gives a ratts butt if gramar and spelling are not followed" is today's mindset for youth. However, you must realize that when people read what you have to say, if you cannot say it in a way that seperates you from a 9th grade drop out, then people will classify you in the same light. Oh, and with regards to the one handed comment: It doesn't matter if you have one hand or two. There's no timed trial on getting your response in.

And Denny, for the last time I am no conspiracy theorist. I have one area that I've complained about and have stood by my decision. I'm not posting on every complaint coming in here(as you seem to be). You have chosen repeatedly to disagree with me, which is fine by me. I've even stated that I'll be happy to agree to disagree with you. However, your format of disagreeing is to attack in a derogatory fashion. You have come off like an unlikeable 5th grader, making it difficult to have a grown up discussion with you. Disagree with me all you like, Den-Den, just try to do it in an adult fashion.

Now, for the rest of those reading about what I dealt with. Decide for yourself if my arguement has merit or if Denny the wonder poster(over 30 posts on this site and counting, with most of them being derogatory towards the poster in question. Denny are you the company advocate for more than one chain?)

At the very least, you were able to get the consumer response from me and the company line from Denny here to help weigh your decision.

Denny, as you are itching for the final word, I'll let you have it. I'll let those reading compare your thoughts to mine and make an educated decision. As I feel like I'm talking to my daughter, I feel compelled once again to say I will have to agree to disagree with you Denny as you will never have the acumen to see eye to eye with me on this subject. For any others that have questions, feel free as I'll happily answer anything that you find I've missed. Again, I could be wrong, however, based on the way the situation evolved, I still feel strongly that my initial assessment is correct and will fight for my right to tell my side of the story without being shouted down by those like Denny.
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#19 Consumer Comment

Will ,once you attack someones grammar and spelling, you've already lost the argument

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

The internet allows people to post as they see fit, and who gives a rats butt if grammar and spelling are not followed.

How do you know ath the person you're replying to is a native english speaker? Or is typing with only one hand? Grammar and spelling are minor "problems" with anything on the net, and for you to attack someones grammar and spelling, shows the sign of a weak minded invidivual, with no more arugments to offer on the topic at hand.

I may not spell great, or have perfect grammar, but the fact remains that even in your small world that you live in , with conspiracy theories and how big bad business it out to rip you off, that the simplest of explanations will always be the right one.

And have stated throughout this, report, is that you overlook the simplest explanations, out of convenience, so that you can just whine about something on this site.
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#20 Author of original report

Denny, for the last time... I have addressed every single point you have mentioned

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

I have addressed every single point you have mentioned, including the fact that I "could be wrong"(something you've yet to even consider on your behalf, even though you have no central bearing on the event that took place). I still feel, based on my experience, that what was done was BAS, however. I have never reported anyone for BAS before and usually, when I have a bad retail experience, I'm able to resolve it with local management pretty quickly.

The fact that I've posted on this site and so vigorously followed up on this one topic and have NO other posts anywhere on the web with regards to companies screwing over the public attests to the fact that I am not a conspiracy theorist.

As stated before, Denny, based on my experience, I felt that it was BAS and am relating those events to the public at large through this forum so that they can make an informed decision. They can choose to take the information as I have given or not. I am passionate about the fact that I think I am right, otherwise I would never have posted in the first place(obviously). ONCE AGAIN, while you may disagree with me, because of your extensive retail experience you cannot know for sure, because YOU WERE NOT THERE. You take it on faith that I'm a whiner, while I take it on faith that you work for TRU. I'm happy letting those that read the exchange make up their own mind.

On a last note, Denny, poor grammer and typos give you a very dismal appearance (versus that of a professional trying to engage in an intellectual debate). It is difficult to even validate the opinion from someone that presents themselves so poorly. Next time you post anywhere, spell check at the very least. (this is not an insult, merely good, sound advice)
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#21 Consumer Comment

No bias to anyone, Wil., again your perception fails you

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

No bias here; in fact, I would say that Im against TRU as anyone, because for 3 years I worked for a competitor of theirs. I just know that there are much more plausible reasons as to why they didn't have it in stock when you got there; much more reasonable explanations as everyone else in this report has repeatedly told you that there were.

Your perception of course is a bit skewed because you felt you were wronged. Surely, you are so fired up over not bing able to get the karaoke toy of your choice, but it doesn't excuse you to "dismiss" any other plausible more reasonable explanations from those who are outside the "situation."

Im bias to no one, though having worked in retail, I've seen customer accuse those companies i've worked for of B&S when there was no such thing happening. Many do not understand what B&S really is and hope that buy screaming such, they would get others to belive that truly happened.

Your anger has narrowed your vision of the whole thing, Wil. You need to take a breather, and worry about things that are more important.

Because as it stands you are too one sided, closed minded to accept any other plausible explanation, and that you dont realize that you weren't wronged, in the way you think you were wronged.

You were wronged, for the fact that the employee you spoked on the phone to didn't bother to physically check to see if that particular toy was actually in stock; making you go to the store and realize that it wasn't. But again, you can't accept that maybe during the time you were on your way to the store, they could have sold out (it happens; in one case, a toy that we had 47 in stokck of sold out in 30 min. becaue it was on sale).

Nope, not possible, in your "view".
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#22 REBUTTAL Individual responds

I rest my case Denny

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

Your response easily shows your bias for TRU. I'll agree to disagree with you, as I've already explained my version of the events and you have offered up nothing new to disqualify my opinion. That is the main problem with BAS, it is difficult to prove and that is why, I believe, companies practice it with little or no fear of being caught. Also, they have paid synchophants that will work tirelessly to verbally discredit any story that places a blemish on their source of funding.

The child advocacy group oversees children's advertising and, as I received an email ad that started the whole problem, I felt it best to notify them as well. They will follow it up or not as they choose.

Denny, you obviously have a great disdain for my opinion and are doing everything in your power to throw dirt on it. However, my friend, it is simply not possible. This is a matter of faith and perspective. I've chosen the simplest answer which says it was money motivated, based on my experience. Unless you can offer perspective from the TRU in Sanford, Florida, Denny, then I'm afraid your opinion doesn't mean squat as you were not one of the parties involved. You can conjecture and guess and contemplate to your heart's desire, but in the end you are fighting for a point of view in which you have no working knowledge.

Go back to work at TRU and wait until your store is brought up, which hopefully will be a long, long time from now.
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#23 Consumer Comment

Wil, the simplest explanation is always the right one

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

Wil, simplest explanation:
-- The clerk you talked to didn't physically check to see if the item was in stock
-- the clerk you talked to was honest that they did have it in stock, but since you didn't ask them to put it on hold, they could have sold out of the item during that time you got off the phone and made your way to the store
-- the clerk saw that the computer said they had stock, but didn't realize that the computer could have been off.


These are the simplest explanations. As they say, the simplest explanations are usually the right ones.

you're far fetched notion that they tried to BAS you is more of the same rhetoric that consumers try to throw out as a means to justify their beign wronged. No, again, i say, in your mind, it just HAS To be BAS. No other explanation is possible in your mind.

Sorry, WE do not live in your world that your mind has created, sicne we know that humans are prone to make mistakes, or just plain d**n lazy. Simplest explanations given.

As for the manager, she tried to offer yousomething to compensate y0ou for your time; did you ask them to call another TRU to see if they had it in stock and do an instore transfer?

No, you probably didn't, because in your mind, you're screaming "oh my god, they are trying to bas me@@!! oh my god! I have to report this!"

aND WHAT does the Child Advocacy group have to do with anything business related?
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#24 Author of original report

I find no fault in her opinions nor in how she perceived the event to be. I do, however, still disagree with her.

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

I can acccept Shelly's response and reasoning that she might find it difficult to believe this is BIS. I find no fault in her opinions nor in how she perceived the event to be. I do, however, still disagree with her.

With regards, to Denny, there is no point in even discussing it with him. He solidly advocates his company and the company line and my post could negatively affect his retail earnings, or so I perceive based on the way he presents his point of view.

I will, however, again attempt to address the questions you have asked and you can do with the information as you will. As for me and my household, we spend our money elsewhere and advise others to do the same.

1) TRU employees do not work on commission, however managers do make bonuses based on net sales, profit, etc. They also receive spiffs from certain manufacturers for selling more of their items. I actually talked with a store manager from another chain who told me this is common practice.

2) The clerk on the phone can easily receive credit for it based in 2 different ways: a) that person could have been a manager or b)There could have been a storewide marketing campaign that rewards certain locations with an employee bonus for selling a certain # of product or for being the high seller. Obviously, this is only conjecture, as I was not there, but it does offer a reasonable explanation to your question.

3) Regarding the manager offering me a competitive item when they were out of the item I requested: The item was not competitive(it was more money than the other and had fewer extras). While I can understand the manager trying to maintain my business, I was frustrated at this point. My belief was that I should have been offered, at the very least, a rain check for the item. When I asked for one, the manager said that was not possible based on the way the deal was listed. This is what really leads me to believe it's bait and switch.

4) With regards to complaining to the BBB and the Child Advocacy group, I did this because I felt cheated. When I feel that a company has done me wrong and does nothing whatsoever to redress the issue, even after I bring it to their attention, then I will always contact the necessary officials. That is what they are there for.

5) and finally...I never wanted a gift certificate for my troubles. I wanted an assurance from them that I am a valued customer and that they do not practice nor endorse BAS. After 2-1/2 months, I'm pretty confident that I will receive neither, so I will continue to let others know what I perceive of TRU.

On to Denny. Denny, I've answered every hypothetical you've thrown out in this and previous posts. My experience tells me BAS and so I will continue to let others know of my experience. Unless you can bring some physical evidence that BAS does not exist and is not practiced by big business, then I would ask that you ask new hypotheticals that relate to my situation and stop worrying about how my posts affect your bottom line.
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#25 Consumer Comment

Of course Robert is delusional as well

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

Yes, IT JUST has to be bait and swithc.

Again, no other circumstances or explanation can be offered; so there is only one possible reason right?

GET overyourself Robert. YOu and the OP have a problem with reality. Reality, people/humans MAKE mistakes. ALL the time. I've worked in retail for 15 years of my life, and I know when customers come in thinking that we have an item in stock , but in reality they dont, its called and HONEST mistake. The computer could show that we have it in stock, but come to find out, its a return or a display model that we are not able to sell toe the customer

Or maybe during that time that the customer called, they didn't bother to check or thought they had them in stock.

NO, it has to be bait and switch

Maybe they did have it in stock, but by the time the OP got there, they sold what was left? Really, is that so hard to consider as an explanation? Did the OP request that hte item be held for them? She made no mention of that in her report.


No Robert, you and the OP see fraud everywhere you turn; and humans dont make mistakes.

Really, there was no Bait and Switch on any part of the TRU and the OP can't prove that there is . Its more likely the honest mistake of a lazy employee or someone who was swamped and "thought" they had it in stock but couldn't check at the time the OP called.

And by the definition of what bait and switch is, Will, no you were not the victim of such and TRU didn't commit that at all.
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#26 Consumer Comment

I still don't see why you are so mad

AUTHOR: Shelli - (U.S.A.)

Hi Will! I'm not here to bash you but I first want to say that you should not think people are idiots because they disagree with your theory...that's uncalled for. I am a very smart woman and I also think it wasn't bait and switch. I don't think the Toys R Us employees work on commission so why do they care if you come buy something or not? Also, if they did somehow get some bonus for you buying a karaoke machine on sale how would that clerk on the phone get credit for it? They wouldn't so why lie to you about having them in stock?

I also agree that the clerk was just lazy or mistook it for another machine. These are minimum wage employees who don't care if they really help or not. As for the comment about the manager suggesting another karaoke machine so you assume it's bait and switch, what was the manager supposed to do? Just say sorry, we have nothing for you so go away...their job is to help you find a nice product for your child so they probably felt bad they didn't have what you wanted and offered you another product that was practically the same and in your own words, cost just a little bit extra.

I don't think they were trying to rip you off but I do think the employee was wrong. This sole experience shouldn't make you dislike the corporation as a whole. I understand you comlaining to TRU corporate offices and they should have sent you a certificate or gift card for your troubles and maybe an apology...but complaining to other agencies such as BBB and Child Avocacy was a bit much in my opinion. That just seems like you are trying to make a bigger deal than it really is. I'm sorry if this seems like I am putting you down, I'm not, just putting my two cents in so please don't reply back calling me an idiot. Thank you :)
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#27 Consumer Suggestion

Huh???

AUTHOR: Christine - (U.S.A.)

What in heaven's name does the Child Advocacy center have to do with all of this?
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#28 Consumer Comment

TRU does Bait and switch. DENNY

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

TRU does Bait and switch, i know this for a fact. Its a way of life for alot of stores and employees to do. The american consumer learns to live with that crap. They have not Problem with our money or credit card or check, Then why should we as consmers have a problem with what we buy. Evidently, Denny doesnt spend much at stores. or he would not be so one sided. so ignore his comments they mean nothing. He writes just to be writing or else he works for different stores promoting them.
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#29 Consumer Comment

UPDATE With regards to all the responses I have received...

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

to my original report, I say the following:

1) I have never received a call, email, letter, or visit from anyone within the Toys R Us organization.

2) I did contact Toys R Us by phone and email and I also contacted the Better Business Bureau as well as the local Child Advocacy company.

3) For those that keep accusing me with their retoric, here is the question I asked myself at the beginning, along with the answer: What is Bait and Switch by the US Govt's definition? ANSWER: A sales tactic in which a bargain-priced item is used to attract customers who are then encouraged to purchase a more expensive similar item. I believe this definition was met, based on the events as I perceived them.

4) While you might hold an opinion different from mine (ie. phone clerk was lazy or an idiot I'm a liar or last one just sold yessir!), you were NOT there. I was. I talked to the manager of the store and the clerk in her department. If you choose not to believe in Bait and Switch, that is your perrogative and you quite simply either (a) work for the company in question or (b) are an idiot.

5) To the response that it would be absurd for someone on the phone to use a Bait and Switch tactic, I ask this: How do you know? Do not managers answer phones and do not managers receive bonuses based on year end sales? Are all Toys R Us managers God's Chosen?

I'll leave everyone who is so vehement in their responses to me with one last thing about the honesty of big business. Enron, MCI Worldcom, Qwest, Global Crossing, and Ahold are all multi billion dollar companies that are well known for their "shady practices", so do not presume to tell anyone that this practice does not exist in big business. Go back to managing your Toys R Us store and stop trying to convince those visitors to here that Toys R Us is the Consumer's Choice for honesty.
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#30 Consumer Comment

UPDATE With regards to all the responses I have received...

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

to my original report, I say the following:

1) I have never received a call, email, letter, or visit from anyone within the Toys R Us organization.

2) I did contact Toys R Us by phone and email and I also contacted the Better Business Bureau as well as the local Child Advocacy company.

3) For those that keep accusing me with their retoric, here is the question I asked myself at the beginning, along with the answer: What is Bait and Switch by the US Govt's definition? ANSWER: A sales tactic in which a bargain-priced item is used to attract customers who are then encouraged to purchase a more expensive similar item. I believe this definition was met, based on the events as I perceived them.

4) While you might hold an opinion different from mine (ie. phone clerk was lazy or an idiot I'm a liar or last one just sold yessir!), you were NOT there. I was. I talked to the manager of the store and the clerk in her department. If you choose not to believe in Bait and Switch, that is your perrogative and you quite simply either (a) work for the company in question or (b) are an idiot.

5) To the response that it would be absurd for someone on the phone to use a Bait and Switch tactic, I ask this: How do you know? Do not managers answer phones and do not managers receive bonuses based on year end sales? Are all Toys R Us managers God's Chosen?

I'll leave everyone who is so vehement in their responses to me with one last thing about the honesty of big business. Enron, MCI Worldcom, Qwest, Global Crossing, and Ahold are all multi billion dollar companies that are well known for their "shady practices", so do not presume to tell anyone that this practice does not exist in big business. Go back to managing your Toys R Us store and stop trying to convince those visitors to here that Toys R Us is the Consumer's Choice for honesty.
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#31 Consumer Comment

UPDATE With regards to all the responses I have received...

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

to my original report, I say the following:

1) I have never received a call, email, letter, or visit from anyone within the Toys R Us organization.

2) I did contact Toys R Us by phone and email and I also contacted the Better Business Bureau as well as the local Child Advocacy company.

3) For those that keep accusing me with their retoric, here is the question I asked myself at the beginning, along with the answer: What is Bait and Switch by the US Govt's definition? ANSWER: A sales tactic in which a bargain-priced item is used to attract customers who are then encouraged to purchase a more expensive similar item. I believe this definition was met, based on the events as I perceived them.

4) While you might hold an opinion different from mine (ie. phone clerk was lazy or an idiot I'm a liar or last one just sold yessir!), you were NOT there. I was. I talked to the manager of the store and the clerk in her department. If you choose not to believe in Bait and Switch, that is your perrogative and you quite simply either (a) work for the company in question or (b) are an idiot.

5) To the response that it would be absurd for someone on the phone to use a Bait and Switch tactic, I ask this: How do you know? Do not managers answer phones and do not managers receive bonuses based on year end sales? Are all Toys R Us managers God's Chosen?

I'll leave everyone who is so vehement in their responses to me with one last thing about the honesty of big business. Enron, MCI Worldcom, Qwest, Global Crossing, and Ahold are all multi billion dollar companies that are well known for their "shady practices", so do not presume to tell anyone that this practice does not exist in big business. Go back to managing your Toys R Us store and stop trying to convince those visitors to here that Toys R Us is the Consumer's Choice for honesty.
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#32 Consumer Comment

UPDATE With regards to all the responses I have received...

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

to my original report, I say the following:

1) I have never received a call, email, letter, or visit from anyone within the Toys R Us organization.

2) I did contact Toys R Us by phone and email and I also contacted the Better Business Bureau as well as the local Child Advocacy company.

3) For those that keep accusing me with their retoric, here is the question I asked myself at the beginning, along with the answer: What is Bait and Switch by the US Govt's definition? ANSWER: A sales tactic in which a bargain-priced item is used to attract customers who are then encouraged to purchase a more expensive similar item. I believe this definition was met, based on the events as I perceived them.

4) While you might hold an opinion different from mine (ie. phone clerk was lazy or an idiot I'm a liar or last one just sold yessir!), you were NOT there. I was. I talked to the manager of the store and the clerk in her department. If you choose not to believe in Bait and Switch, that is your perrogative and you quite simply either (a) work for the company in question or (b) are an idiot.

5) To the response that it would be absurd for someone on the phone to use a Bait and Switch tactic, I ask this: How do you know? Do not managers answer phones and do not managers receive bonuses based on year end sales? Are all Toys R Us managers God's Chosen?

I'll leave everyone who is so vehement in their responses to me with one last thing about the honesty of big business. Enron, MCI Worldcom, Qwest, Global Crossing, and Ahold are all multi billion dollar companies that are well known for their "shady practices", so do not presume to tell anyone that this practice does not exist in big business. Go back to managing your Toys R Us store and stop trying to convince those visitors to here that Toys R Us is the Consumer's Choice for honesty.
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#33 Consumer Comment

I see that your story changes.

AUTHOR: Leticia - (U.S.A.)

It first starts with the phone rep saying that have 2 in stock, to saying they have plenty in stock.

Even if they did have the 2 in stock when your wife called, what's to say to people didn't come into the store and buy them?

They did everything, to try and help you out and found that everywhere was SOLD OUT!

But NO! It must be bait and switch.

I do believe that they were out for a while and the phone rep didn't even check. They just said something that was wrong.

Now if you had gone to the store and they didn't even try to help you out by calling other stores, I would understand. But they did try to help you.
The look that you "saw" might have been because the person who was helping you had a been written up before about getting rude with a customer, (IE they had a similar complaint before them and then when asked about it, said something to the fact of, We're sold out what do you expect me to do about it.) I've given these reminding looks again, when I was a manager. (But of course since the manager gave a look. It must be about lying to you.)
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#34 Consumer Comment

Bait and Switch? Give me a break, please

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

Dear Will:

Bait and switch is an illegal tactic used by unscrupulous sales people to pad their own wallets by offering a great value to get you into the store, then steering you to a deal that benefits them far more.

The employees at Toys R Us have absolutely no horse in that race. They do not have a financial stake in steering you to a more profitable sale. These guys don't even have a clue as to the margins on the different products.

Implying that these guys are trying to hussle you is laughable. The girl made a mistake... maybe from being lazy... maybe from being incompetent... maybe from just not caring... maybe a combination of all three. They have no control over what products are in stock or advertised. They have no control over pricing or policies.

I believe you were wronged. I believe you were inconvenienced. I believe TRU owes you an apology and a gift certificate to compensate you for your aggravation and time.

I think you owe the workers of TRU an apology for accusing them lying and illegal tactics that they probably have never even heard of, much less understand.
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#35 Consumer Comment

Agree with Denny

AUTHOR: Jenna - (U.S.A.)

I am a manager for a retail chain (not Toys R Us or any affiliates) and I know all too well how mistakes can be made when giving information about stock. It sucks, it's embarassing for managers who are ultimately held responsible, but it's not typically a bait and switch.

Remember that hourly employees generally don't work 24/7 and have a running tally of everything in stock in the entire store. Ask for managers when calling about stock availibility. They usually know how to check invoices, will know if the product has been on backorder, if there are shipping delays or what is so popular that other stores have none of the item, too. I'd bet on almost any other factor before I'd bet on bait an switch.
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#36 Consumer Comment

RE: lazy employee response

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

Yes, it could have been a lazy employee and yes they did have the specific product information (i.e. "Do you still have stock for the American Idol Karaoke Machine that is advertised as the 2nd day of Christmas gift?" "Yes, we do." "How many do you have in stock?" "We have plenty").
I have no proof that it was definitely a bait and switch tactic, as I was not standing next to her when my wife called.

The facts I do know are this:

1) I complained to the manager and she did nothing to rectify the situation, EXCEPT offer another brand when I complained.

2) The girl DID state that they were in stock and they had plenty when called; and the girl at the counter said they haven't had any all week and got a "look" from the manager when she said that.

3) No Toys R Us location within 30 miles had the product.

4) I have complained to their corporate office and NEVER received any information that leads me to believe it was a lazy employee.

You can come up with whatever answer you choose, but the facts as I see them say bait and switch. Sure, anyone can say "oh, they were lazy or I punched in the wrong UPC code", but #1, #2 and #3(listed above) paint me a different picture.

But you go ahead and accept that great deal that's advertised for 1 day only and only in the store(not online) and when you get a similar set of responses, then you tell me honestly that you feel differently. Advertising companies love customers like that, after all.
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#37 Consumer Comment

bait and switch? nah. Lazy employee? yes

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

maybe it was just a lazy employee? Where she didn't bother to check physically they had it in stock or to check their computer inventory?

or maybe she was just head deep with 210 other customers on the phone and in person, that she mistyped the UPC (you did give the product number?) or thought you were referring to a different "karaoke" machine?

No, it just has to BE, bait and switch? When it could be a whole slew of other reasons.
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#38 Consumer Comment

bait and switch? nah. Lazy employee? yes

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

maybe it was just a lazy employee? Where she didn't bother to check physically they had it in stock or to check their computer inventory?

or maybe she was just head deep with 210 other customers on the phone and in person, that she mistyped the UPC (you did give the product number?) or thought you were referring to a different "karaoke" machine?

No, it just has to BE, bait and switch? When it could be a whole slew of other reasons.
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#39 Consumer Comment

bait and switch? nah. Lazy employee? yes

AUTHOR: Denny - (U.S.A.)

maybe it was just a lazy employee? Where she didn't bother to check physically they had it in stock or to check their computer inventory?

or maybe she was just head deep with 210 other customers on the phone and in person, that she mistyped the UPC (you did give the product number?) or thought you were referring to a different "karaoke" machine?

No, it just has to BE, bait and switch? When it could be a whole slew of other reasons.
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#40 Consumer Comment

Then why would they tell us differently when my wife called?

AUTHOR: Will - (U.S.A.)

I can understand advertising that is run in advance, but that is the reason I had my wife call prior to my going to the store. How can it be explained that the clerk clearly told her that they had some in stock, however when we arrived, I was told they had not had any in stock for the past week?

That is the true essence of bait and switch. Get a customer into the store and then switch them to a different product...
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#41 UPDATE EX-employee responds

It goes to show how incompetent TRU is

AUTHOR: Derek - (U.S.A.)

Being and ex-associate of Toys R Us, I have seen this happen too many times to count. The problem wasn't with the store in question, but with the advertising division.

Many times Ads (Alsos called ROTOs) are designed and printed en masse many months prior to their actual effective dates, and quantities may change periodically. In most cases advertised items are placed in "ROTO HOLD" meaning that they cannot be sold until the date of ad break.

What seems to have happened here was that they ran out of the item (probably on clearance anyway) and did not get the roto notice until a week before the ad was supposed to break.

Toys R Us always seems to be lacking in the communication department between corporate and store levels in this area. I don't expect they will be in business much longer anyway since Mr. Eyler was put back in charge of corporate after the company was purchased.
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