• Report: #259741

Complaint Review: Tropico Kennels

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  • Submitted: Mon, July 09, 2007
  • Updated: Sat, October 13, 2007

  • Reported By:Calabasas California
Tropico Kennels
41751 25th Street West Palmdale, California U.S.A.

Tropico Kennels We contacted the kennel when we discovered that the female goldendoodle we purchased from them had hip dysplasia. They replied that they were not subject to the CA puppy lemon law for undisclosed reasons. ripoff Palmdale California

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Sorry I forgot to ad my reply to the consumer comment....

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Tropico Kennels always honors their health guarantees...

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Tropico Kennels always honors their health guarantees...

*Consumer Comment: May I offer a suggestion

*Consumer Comment: Tropico Kennels is now also known as Southern Cal Kennels

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We had mixed results with Tropico Kennels. In February of last year we purchased a male goldendoodle from Tropico which has grown into a fine healthy dog. We purchased a female goldendoodle from them a month later from a different litter who has not been so fortunate. Late last year we noticed the female puppy was tiring and bunny hopping.

We took her to our veterinarian, who had been recommended by Tropico, Dr. Karen Martin of East/West Veterinary in Thousand Oaks, CA. Karen x-rayed the dog and told us it looked like she had hip dysplasia and recommended we see a veterinary surgeon at the Veterinary Surgery and Medical Group in Ventura for a more comprehensive set of tests. These tests, which cost us ~$1700, showed that the diagnosis was correct...the dog had hip dysplasia. After some gut renching soul searching, we opted not to subject our puppy to radical surgery.

We contacted Tropico in accordance with the CA puppy lemon law which states that if the condition is discovered within a year of purchase that we would be entitled to recoup reasonable veterinary fees for the dog, but not more than 150% of the sale price of $1250. After one email and two letters sent registered mail and containing copies of the medical reports they replied.

It is Tropico's position that they are not liable under the CA pupply lemon law for reason's they stated they would not disclose unless we take them to court. (I'm at a loss to understand why they are not liable; they had many more than two litters of puppies running around their property when my husband and I purchased our dogs.)

They implied that both Karen Martin and the doctors at the Veterinary Surgery and Medical Group had taken the x-rays improperly, that Pen Hip was inaccurate at best and that both Karen and the Surgery center were only trying to drum up business for themselves. They insisted that we get another x-ray at a vet of their choice ... I'm assuming at our own expense since they did offer to pay.

I'm not sure what we are going to do about this now but I do know that I will never purchase an animal from Tropico again.

Jennifer
Calabasas, California
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/09/2007 06:09 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Tropico-Kennels/Palmdale-California-93551/Tropico-Kennels-We-contacted-the-kennel-when-we-discovered-that-the-female-goldendoodle-we-259741. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 2Consumer 3Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Sorry I forgot to ad my reply to the consumer comment....

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

Hello fellow Goldendoodle breeder, thank you for your comment. I just wanted to let you know that they did not lose their pup, they still have her and she is alive and well. They decided not to have the surgery done that their vet recommended, but their pup is still alive and their pet. I do not know if surgery was necessary or not (I can only go by their vet records and base my opinion), because I was never allowed a second opinion from my vet.

However had my vet told me that their dog needed surgery to have a comfortable life, then I would have wanted their dog to have the surgery. I also agree with you in regards to $1700 is outrageous for a CHD diagnosis. The vet we use Dr. Cohen charges $135.00 for a one hour second opinion examination and $98.00 for a hip x-ray's, which are then sent to the OFA for them to have their specialist give their opinion and the OFA fee is only $25.00. Their vet bill and what the vet stated in their vet records, is what made me suspicious of their vet.

I recommended that vet to them originally, because they asked if I new any vet's that were local to them and I had heard of that vet, but I had never used them personally. I'm sure you as a breeder can understand me wanting to obtain a second opinion before considering a refund. They are local to me, they only live about an hour to an hour 1/2 from my house, so requesting that I have my vet examine their dog was not unreasonable.

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#2 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Tropico Kennels always honors their health guarantees...

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

In response to Jenna Zinck (also known as Jennifer)-

You contacted me by certified mail after your guarantee had expired. You claimed in your letter to have sent me email's prior to it expiring, however I never received any emails from you. You could have easily phoned me if you sent me email's that you never received responses to. You could have also requested read receipt's for your email's, to make sure they were delivered and read. You could have also sent me a certified letter "prior" to the guarantee expiring.

In your letter you stated to me that your dog had CHD (canine hip dysplasia) and that your vet said your dog needed surgery to correct the problem.

You included copies of the vet records and according to those vet records, it appears that your dog doesn't even have hip dysplasia. It states in the vet records that you mailed me:

"There is no pain on examination of range of motion of the hips and the gait and trot is within a normal range."

"Hip radiographs in an extended pelvic limb position (OFA view) do not show any evidence of osteoarthritis or degeneration of the bony structures of the hip joints. There is some laxity present on the examined films from your veterinarian."

Some laxity does not necessarily mean your dog has CHD, not to mention poor positioning could make it appear that there is laxity when there may not be.

You also quoted a law that does not pertain to me.

Had you read the law thoroughly it would have been clear to you that it didn't pertain to me, especially given that it says pet dealers are not allowed to have dogs under the age of 8 weeks old in their possession. The law you quoted me is for pet stores and dog brokers that buy and resell puppies.

You asked me for a refund of 150% of what you paid for your dog, yet you told me that you had no intention of doing surgery to correct the problem.

What I stated to you in response to your letter, was that I wanted to have a second opinion performed by my own vet and that the law you quoted to me did not pertain to me. I never stated that I was unwilling to work things out with you, had I been unwilling to work anything out, then I would have just stated to you in the letter, that the law did not pertain to me (which by the way that law is only for 1 year from the purchase date as well) and that your guarantee was expired.

But that is not what I said to you. I asked you to allow me to have a second opinion done on your dog.

A review of the facts:

#1. You contacted me after your guarantee had expired.

#2. According to your own vet records it doesn't appear that your dog even has CHD.

#3. You asked me to refund you more money than what you paid for your dog, yet you stated that even though your vet advised you to do surgery to correct the problem, that you decided not to have the surgery done.

#4. You quoted a law that doesn't pertain to me.

#5. My response to you was that I wanted to get a second opinion from my own vet. I do not think anyone would find this an unreasonable request and I never stated that I expected you to pay for the second opinion.

In the past I have had cases (more than 1) where one of my client's veterinarian has told them that their dog has CHD and needs surgery to correct the problem, but then after I obtain a second opinion, I find out that the dog in fact does NOT have CHD at all. I can provide proof of what I am stating, as I have actual documentation of these cases on paper, that I am happy to fax to anyone that wants to see the proof.

Dr Cohen the vet that I use for second opinions with regards to CHD, has stated to me that approximately 60% of the x-ray's they see as second opinions were misdiagnosed the first time. This is usually due to the fact that the original x-ray was poorly positioned. Usually it is unintentional, but sometimes it can be intentional in order to make money from surgery. Anyone reading this can Google "law suits against All -Care vet hospital" for an example of what I am talking about. A vet that doesn't have a lot of experience taking hip x-ray's can take a poorly positioned x-ray, or a not so skilled vet tech, often a vet will just have their vet tech take the x-ray for them. Dr Keller at the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) has even stated to me over the phone, that a dog with good hips can appear to be dysplastic in an x-ray due to poor positioning, however a dog with bad hips can never appear to have good hips.

Bottom line is that even though your guarantee was expired, I was still willing to discuss the matter with you and try to resolve it. The first step to resolving anything would have been to allow me to have a second opinion done, but you never even responded to my request. After I sent you a letter in reply to the one you sent me, I never heard from you again, not until I read this rip off report.

So for anyone reading this report, I want to say that I am happy to fax you proof of anything I have claimed, including the vet records Jenna Zinck sent me. I am also happy to give you the phone number to Dr. Cohen and to Dr. Keller at the OFA, just contact me by email, which you will find on my web site.

I would also like to state that I always honor my guarantee and Beth one of my clients (Beth's email address is available upon request), has even come on this web site to defend me and attest to that fact, as I went above and beyond my guarantee for her when she had a problem.

There is not a breeder out there that is going to be 100% free from ever having any health problems, because statistically it's impossible, so I am not claiming that I have never had any health problems, what I am claiming is that I always honor my guarantee 100%+!!! If a problem ever arises after the guarantee I offer has expired, I am still willing to try to work something out with anyone that wants to be fair and has good intentions.

Statistically I have had VERY VERY few health problems in the dogs I have sold, over the years only a handful, which proves the dogs I breed are very healthy!

Since I was not allowed a second opinion, I can only base my opinion from the vet records that were provided to me by Jenna and based on those vet records, my opinion is that Jenna's dog does not have CHD.

Due to the fact that Jenna wrote this report, instead of just allowing me to have my vet examine her dog and go from there, I choose not to discuss this matter with her any further.

So I will not continue this thread after this comment, which means I will not be back to respond to this particular subject again, I have said my piece on this matter.


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#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Tropico Kennels always honors their health guarantees...

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

In response to Jenna Zinck (also known as Jennifer)-

You contacted me by certified mail after your guarantee had expired. You claimed in your letter to have sent me email's prior to it expiring, however I never received any emails from you. You could have easily phoned me if you sent me email's that you never received responses to. You could have also requested read receipt's for your email's, to make sure they were delivered and read. You could have also sent me a certified letter "prior" to the guarantee expiring.

In your letter you stated to me that your dog had CHD (canine hip dysplasia) and that your vet said your dog needed surgery to correct the problem.

You included copies of the vet records and according to those vet records, it appears that your dog doesn't even have hip dysplasia. It states in the vet records that you mailed me:

"There is no pain on examination of range of motion of the hips and the gait and trot is within a normal range."

"Hip radiographs in an extended pelvic limb position (OFA view) do not show any evidence of osteoarthritis or degeneration of the bony structures of the hip joints. There is some laxity present on the examined films from your veterinarian."

Some laxity does not necessarily mean your dog has CHD, not to mention poor positioning could make it appear that there is laxity when there may not be.

You also quoted a law that does not pertain to me.

Had you read the law thoroughly it would have been clear to you that it didn't pertain to me, especially given that it says pet dealers are not allowed to have dogs under the age of 8 weeks old in their possession. The law you quoted me is for pet stores and dog brokers that buy and resell puppies.

You asked me for a refund of 150% of what you paid for your dog, yet you told me that you had no intention of doing surgery to correct the problem.

What I stated to you in response to your letter, was that I wanted to have a second opinion performed by my own vet and that the law you quoted to me did not pertain to me. I never stated that I was unwilling to work things out with you, had I been unwilling to work anything out, then I would have just stated to you in the letter, that the law did not pertain to me (which by the way that law is only for 1 year from the purchase date as well) and that your guarantee was expired.

But that is not what I said to you. I asked you to allow me to have a second opinion done on your dog.

A review of the facts:

#1. You contacted me after your guarantee had expired.

#2. According to your own vet records it doesn't appear that your dog even has CHD.

#3. You asked me to refund you more money than what you paid for your dog, yet you stated that even though your vet advised you to do surgery to correct the problem, that you decided not to have the surgery done.

#4. You quoted a law that doesn't pertain to me.

#5. My response to you was that I wanted to get a second opinion from my own vet. I do not think anyone would find this an unreasonable request and I never stated that I expected you to pay for the second opinion.

In the past I have had cases (more than 1) where one of my client's veterinarian has told them that their dog has CHD and needs surgery to correct the problem, but then after I obtain a second opinion, I find out that the dog in fact does NOT have CHD at all. I can provide proof of what I am stating, as I have actual documentation of these cases on paper, that I am happy to fax to anyone that wants to see the proof.

Dr Cohen the vet that I use for second opinions with regards to CHD, has stated to me that approximately 60% of the x-ray's they see as second opinions were misdiagnosed the first time. This is usually due to the fact that the original x-ray was poorly positioned. Usually it is unintentional, but sometimes it can be intentional in order to make money from surgery. Anyone reading this can Google "law suits against All -Care vet hospital" for an example of what I am talking about. A vet that doesn't have a lot of experience taking hip x-ray's can take a poorly positioned x-ray, or a not so skilled vet tech, often a vet will just have their vet tech take the x-ray for them. Dr Keller at the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) has even stated to me over the phone, that a dog with good hips can appear to be dysplastic in an x-ray due to poor positioning, however a dog with bad hips can never appear to have good hips.

Bottom line is that even though your guarantee was expired, I was still willing to discuss the matter with you and try to resolve it. The first step to resolving anything would have been to allow me to have a second opinion done, but you never even responded to my request. After I sent you a letter in reply to the one you sent me, I never heard from you again, not until I read this rip off report.

So for anyone reading this report, I want to say that I am happy to fax you proof of anything I have claimed, including the vet records Jenna Zinck sent me. I am also happy to give you the phone number to Dr. Cohen and to Dr. Keller at the OFA, just contact me by email, which you will find on my web site.

I would also like to state that I always honor my guarantee and Beth one of my clients (Beth's email address is available upon request), has even come on this web site to defend me and attest to that fact, as I went above and beyond my guarantee for her when she had a problem.

There is not a breeder out there that is going to be 100% free from ever having any health problems, because statistically it's impossible, so I am not claiming that I have never had any health problems, what I am claiming is that I always honor my guarantee 100%+!!! If a problem ever arises after the guarantee I offer has expired, I am still willing to try to work something out with anyone that wants to be fair and has good intentions.

Statistically I have had VERY VERY few health problems in the dogs I have sold, over the years only a handful, which proves the dogs I breed are very healthy!

Since I was not allowed a second opinion, I can only base my opinion from the vet records that were provided to me by Jenna and based on those vet records, my opinion is that Jenna's dog does not have CHD.

Due to the fact that Jenna wrote this report, instead of just allowing me to have my vet examine her dog and go from there, I choose not to discuss this matter with her any further.

So I will not continue this thread after this comment, which means I will not be back to respond to this particular subject again, I have said my piece on this matter.


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#4 Consumer Comment

May I offer a suggestion

AUTHOR: Angie - (U.S.A.)

I also breed goldendoodles and I am wondering if the breeder signed a contract that your puppy was healthy and vet checked prior to you picking up the pup. Most breeders hope that you will never encounter a problem with a unhealthy pup but if you do they offer a replacement pup from a different litter.

It's very sad that your pup has hip problems but I must say your breeder would not have known this at 8 weeks. Even if you have OFA excellent parents they can still have a pup with bad hips.

I must say I don't live in Cali but 1700 dollars seems very expensive just to check for hip problems . It normally is an xray for 75 dollars and OFA and PennHip cost no more than 200.

I am sorry for you loss. I know it is hard to lose a pup.
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#5 Consumer Comment

Tropico Kennels is now also known as Southern Cal Kennels

AUTHOR: Tubie - (U.S.A.)

TROPICO KENNELS has another website posted with the same information -- except for the kennel name. The site is SOUTHERN CAL KENNELS.

You can get a look at it using Google and searching for the name -- unless SOUTHERN CAL KENNELS aka TROPICO KENNELS removes it. If they remove it -- you can always use the Google 'Cached' link to see what it used to look like.
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