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  • Report: #168211

Complaint Review: Tropico Kennels

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  • Submitted: Fri, December 16, 2005
  • Updated: Fri, September 14, 2007

  • Reported By:Folsom California
Tropico Kennels
tropicokennels.com Palmdale, California U.S.A.

Tropico Kennels ripoff Palmdale California

*Consumer Comment: Tropico Kennels is now also known as Southern Cal Kennels

*Consumer Comment: To anyone looking to find a Golden Retriever or a Goldendoodle puppy..

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: To: P - Colorado Springs (Pam Saxton-Golden Retriever Breeder!!!)

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: To: P - Colorado Springs (Pam Saxton-Golden Retriever Breeder!!!)

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: To: P - Colorado Springs (Pam Saxton-Golden Retriever Breeder!!!)

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Tropico Kennels - Responds To False Allegations

*Consumer Comment: To Lisa:

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Tropico Kennels clinets LOVE their dogs, the only people talking negative are JEALOUS GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDERS!

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Tropico Kennels clinets LOVE their dogs, the only people talking negative are JEALOUS GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDERS!

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Tropico Kennels clinets LOVE their dogs, the only people talking negative are JEALOUS GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDERS!

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Tropico Kennels clinets LOVE their dogs, the only people talking negative are JEALOUS GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDERS!

*Consumer Comment: To Lisa:

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: To the breeder in Colorado that won't give out her identity

*Consumer Comment: "Rare" colors / Status symbols/Tropico breeding ethics...

*Consumer Comment: Response to P in colorado

*Consumer Comment: Response to P in colorado

*Consumer Comment: Response to P in colorado

*Consumer Comment: Response to P in colorado

*Consumer Comment: Stephanie...

*Consumer Comment: Tropico Kennels

*Consumer Comment: Rebuttal to complaint against Tropico Kenne;s

*Consumer Comment: The issues are valid...

*Consumer Comment: In response to Natasha...

*Consumer Comment: Tropico

*Consumer Comment: Natasha...

*Consumer Comment: Natasha...

*Consumer Comment: Natasha...

*Consumer Comment: I love my Tropico Puppy

*Consumer Comment: I am blown away.......

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: In response to Dave or is it Bob?

*Consumer Suggestion: Consider a Rescue?

*Consumer Comment: CA Health and Safety Code

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Tropico Kennels

*Consumer Comment: Just curious

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To the author of the only other thread about Tropico Kennels. You mentioned something about other pending lawsuits. I would like for you to contact me if you have any further valuable information about this pathetic company.

My wife and I almost purchased a dog from their website. They are keeping our deposit of $300 because they say it is non refundable.

The dog was going to be delivered to us 12/23/05 as a Christmas gift for our son. The dog is 1 1/2 years old and is being returned to them from the original owner who took the dog as a puppy.

We started to raise questions about the dog, as we started to become concerned with spending $2000 on a dog that was being returned to them. As soon as we put a stop payment on the deposit check. Lisa and Fred Barreras went ape sh$%#$t. Sent us 6 threatening e-mails and stated that we were going to be sued by them if we did not overnight them the $300.00 deposit. At that point in time, I realized what kind of people I was dealing with.

They have my $300, but they have not heard the last from me.

If anyone has information about this company or laws that protect consumers from bad dogs/dog breeders etc.... CA Puppy Lemon Law etc..

Bob
Palmdale, California
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/16/2005 05:02 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Tropico-Kennels/Palmdale-California-93551/Tropico-Kennels-ripoff-Palmdale-California-168211. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Tropico Kennels is now also known as Southern Cal Kennels

AUTHOR: Tubie - (U.S.A.)

TROPICO KENNELS has another website posted with the same information -- except for the kennel name. The site is SOUTHERN CAL KENNELS.

You can get a look at it using Google and searching for the name -- unless SOUTHERN CAL KENNELS aka TROPICO KENNELS removes it. If they remove it -- you can always use the Google 'Cached' link to see what it used to look like.
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#2 Consumer Comment

To anyone looking to find a Golden Retriever or a Goldendoodle puppy..

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

Before I start, this first part is for Lisa from Tropico Kennels. This will be my final post on this thread. My initial intention for responding to this thread was to help educate consumers looking for a puppy. I have allowed my emotions to interfere with my original intent and let myself to be drawn into a non-productive flamewar. There is nothing to be gained from furthering the argument here and I will no longer be part of it.

For the consumer looking for a puppy:
The information that follows is what I believe is generally regarded as the "best-practice" when looking for a reputable, responsible breeder of any breed of dog.

This information applies to Golden Retrievers and Goldendoodles but can be applied to most other breeds as well. The specifics of the genetic testing involved will vary between breeds and the best way to find out which tests are recommended is to visit the Parent Club of the breed you are interested in.

The best place to find a Golden Retriever breeder is the Golden Retriever Club of America also known as the GRCA. The site can be found by doing a search on the club name. The GRCA was formed in 1938 to promote the health and well-being of the Golden Retriever breed. They provide information about the Golden Retriever breed, information about the GRCA & Golden Retriever Rescues, and they also provide a puppy referral system that will connect you with a reputable, responsible breeder in your area. The litters from these breeders have been pre-screened for the desired health clearances before being listed on the puppy referral list.

A checklist of questions to ask yourself and the potential breeder before you buy - from the Delaware Valley Golden Retriever Rescue - taken from the Golden Retriever Club of America website:

1) Where did you find out about this breeder? Responsible breeders will breed only when they have a waiting list of puppy buyers. They usually don't find it necessary to advertise in newspapers or with a sign out in the front yard. The Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) maintains a national information list available online at the GRCA website.

2) Do both parents (the sire and dam) have elbow & hip clearances from the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) or PennHip? Ask to see the certificates. "My vet okayed the x-ray" is not a valid clearance.

3) Do both parents have current eye clearances? This must be performed every year. Ask to see the certificates.

4) Do both parents have a veterinarian's clearance, preferably with ultrasound by a canine cardiologist, on the hearts of both parents? Ask to see the certificates.

5) Are both parents at least two years old? OFA hip clearances cannot be obtained before that age. PennHip determines hip conditions at an earlier age. Elbow clearances can be obtained for dogs of any age.

6) How often is the dam bred? Breeding every heat cycle IS TOO OFTEN and may indicate that profit is the primary motive for the breeding.

7) Do all four grandparents, siblings of the parents and any other puppies that they may have produced have these clearances? A responsible breeder will keep track of these statistics and honestly discuss any problems that have occurred in the lines and what has been done to prevent them from recurring.

8) Are both parents free of allergies or epilepsy?

9) Is the breeder willing to provide you with references and telephone numbers of other people who have purchased puppies from him/her?

10) Will the puppy have a limited registration (which means if the dog is bred, the puppies cannot be AKC registered) with a mandatory spay/neuter contract? A breeder who cares enough about the breed to insist on these is probably a responsible breeder.

11) On what basis was the sire chosen? If the answer is "because he lives right down the street" or "because he is really sweet," it may be that sufficient thought was not put into the breeding.

12) WILL THE BREEDER TAKE THE DOG BACK AT ANY TIME, FOR ANY REASON, IF YOU CANNOT KEEP IT?! This is the hallmark of responsible breeding (and the quickest, best way to make rescue obsolete).

13) Will the breeder be available for the life of the dog to answer any questions you might have? Is this someone you would feel comfortable asking any type of question?

14) Is the breeder knowledgeable about the breed? Is he or she involved in competition with their dogs (field, obedience, or conformation)?

15) Are there a majority of titled dogs (the initials: CH, OTCH, CD, JH, WC... before or after the names) in the first two generations? The term "champion lines" means nothing if those titles are back three or more generations or there are only one or two in the whole pedigree.

16) Are the puppy's sire and dam available for you to meet? If the sire is unavailable, can you call his owners or people who have his puppies to ask about temperament or health problems? You should also be provided with pictures or videos.

17) Have the puppies been raised in the home - not in a kennel, barn or the back yard?

18) Is the breeder knowledgeable about raising puppies, critical neonatal periods, and proper socialization techniques? Puppies that are raised without high exposure to gentle handling, human contact and a wide variety of noises and experiences OR are removed from their dam or litter mates before at least 7 weeks may exhibit a wide variety of behavioral problems! Temperament, a genetic trait carried over from the parents, still needs development from the early beginnings of a puppy's life. The breeder should provide extensive socialization and human interaction to the puppies in the litter.

19) Does the breeder provide a 3-5 generation pedigree, copies of all clearances, the guarantee, health records and material to help you with feeding, training and housebreaking?

20) Have the puppies' temperaments been evaluated and can the breeder guide you to the puppy that will best suit your lifestyle? A very shy puppy will not do well in a noisy household with small children, just as a very dominant puppy won't flourish in a sedate, senior citizen household. A caring breeder will know the puppies and be able to show you how to test them so that good matches can be made.

21) Do the puppies seem healthy, with no discharge from eyes or nose, no loose stools, no foul smelling ears? Are their coats soft, full and clean? Do they have plenty of energy when awake, yet calm down easily when gently stroked?

22) Do the puppies have their first shots and have they been wormed?

23) Does the breeder have only 1 or at most 2 breeds of dogs and only 1 litter at a time? If there are several breeds of dogs, chances are the breeder cannot devote the time it takes to become really knowledgeable about the breed. If there is more than one litter at a time, it is very difficult to give the puppies the attention they need and may indicate that the primary purpose for breeding is profit, rather than a sincere desire to sustain and improve the breed.

24) Does the breeder belong to the Golden Retriever Club of America and/or a local Golden Retriever club and has he/she signed a breeders' "Code of Ethics"?

25) Do you feel comfortable with this person? Keep in mind that you are entering into a decade-long relationship. If you feel intimidated or pressured, keep looking! It's worth the effort. From all of us at DVGRR, good luck!
-------------------------------------

The best way to find a good breeder is to have this checklist available to you when you call or visit prospective breeders. If at any time, a breeder attempts to make excuses for not having final clearances - a Preliminary Consultation Report is not a final clearance, seriously consider walking away. Also, if at any time the breeder refuses to answer your questions, walk away.

By following these guidelines and asking these questions, you will help to insure that you are getting the best puppy possible for your family.

For those people looking for Goldendoodles:

Because there is no Parent Club for Goldendoodles, there is no central location to get a puppy referral. In addition, since Goldendoodles are a mixed breed, they are not eligible for registration with the AKC so you will not be able to get a referral there either. However, there is a resource that will tell you what to look for in a Goldendoodle breeder, including what genetic testing is recommended. Because URL's are not allowed here, you can do a search for Goldendoodle breeder on Google and look for the address with the word goldendoodles in it. It is listed under the heading of "Goldendoodle Home Page". Be aware, however, that not all of the breeders listed on this site will be reputable and responsible breeders. Use the questionnaire above to help determine what kind of breeder you may be dealing with. Not all questions will apply but the more generic ones will.

Special emphasis should be given to the following questions:

1) Do the parents of the puppies have their final clearances? This looks like the same question as above but both the Poodle and the Golden Retriever have different clearance requirements and you should verify that they both meet those requirements. The requirements for Golden Retrievers are listed above. The requirements for Poodles can be found at the Poodle Club of America site or the Canine Health Information Center (CHIC) or they can be found at the Goldendoodle site mentioned earlier.

2) If the parents are both Goldendoodles, verification of clearances is more difficult. However, the OFA and CERF recently started accepting hybrids (mixed breeds) such as the Goldendoodle into their databases. You can ask the breeder if they are utilizing these certifications. If they are not, you may want to consider finding a breeder who does.

3) Is the Goldendoodle puppy being sold with a spay/neuter contract? Goldendoodles that are not intended for breeding should be spayed/neutered as they and other mixed breeds begin to lose any health benefits that may have been gained in the cross after the first generation.

You can find all of the information listed here and more at the following websites. All of these sites can be found by doing a search on the full name of the club/certifying agency.

Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA)
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA)
Canine Eye Registration Foundation (CERF)

One final note: I realize that this is a lot of information to remember but this puppy will be with you for 10-12 years and as the GRCA says:
"Think ahead to 10-12 years of veterinary bills and the importance of choosing a puppy whose ancestors have been screened for common health issues which have a genetic basis. ...The best source of a healthy, well-socialized puppy is a conscientious breeder with a long-term commitment to the breed and a reputation to uphold. "
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#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

To: P - Colorado Springs (Pam Saxton-Golden Retriever Breeder!!!)

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

Now for someone who is so adamant on health clearances, I have gathered some information off of the k9data web site in regards to your dogs pedigree. I only went back the first 3 generations and this is what I found, now mind you, you stated good breeders test their dogs for: hips, elbows, eyes, heart, Vw and thyroid and that they should all be finals! So why would you buy a dog unless it came from a pedigree of all completely tested dogs? According to you the breeder is not an "ethical" breeder unless they do ALL the final testing on ALL of their breeding stock, that's what you said right?

CH Tuxedo's Acclaim To Fame OS, hip & eye only

CH Tuxedo's Champagne Punch, no elbow

Am. CH Laurell's Cause For Applause OS SDHF, no heart

Am. CH Summit's Almond Delight OD, hip only

Am. Ch. Faera's Future Classic OS, no thyroid

Am. CH Laurell's Going Hollywood OD, hip & eye only

Am/Can CH. Freedom's Celebration OS, hip, eye & thyroid only, no elbow, no heart

AmCH Laurell's Scarlett O'Beara OD SDHF, hip & eye only

Am/Can Ch Miramichi's Pier Connection OS, hip only

Hybrid Vigor: Klondike's Chato De Shamrock, hip only

Am CH Asterling's Buster Keaton OS, hip & eye only

Am CH Faera's Puppy Kidd OD, hip, eye & heart only

BISS Am. CH. Asterling Go Getm Gangbuster OS SDHF, hip & eye only

Am. CH Laurell's Final Play OD, hip only


Hybrid Vigor:

They all have to do with hybrid vigor, because they all explain about the need for diversity in a gene pool! They are all along the same subject line in regards to genes and diversity of genes. You ramble on as if you know anything, as I said previously your not a vet, your not a geneticist, I have provided you with a web site specifically about hybrid vigor, it was written by a vet who is also married to another vet and she is also a "geneticist", show me a web site or an article that says anything to the contrary of what she says, that is written by someone with EQUAL schooling as she has, show me even one??? YOU CAN'T!!! Unlike you I have never acted like I was an expert on any given subject! Why do you accuse me of something that your guilty of doing!

You said: "Claimed to be knowledgeable about Golden Retrievers and genetics"

Show me where I claim this???

You said:"Hmm..she's a labradoodle breeder."

SO??? She breeds Labradoodles, because according to her they are healthier than Labs or Poodles! She's the one with the schooling NOT YOU!

Further more if you know so much, then why were you so stupid as to make the comment about Ariel???

You said: "Claimed to be responsible yet breeds dogs with disqualifying faults - info gathered from her website.*** Tropico's Little Mermaid - Ariel, the bitch that you advertise as a "F1 Goldendoodle". Again, more lies from you. It is a genetic impossibility for a Goldendoodle to look that much like either one of it's parents. This is the same bitch that you sold to Misbehav'n Doodles. Funny how she's advertised as a GOLDEN RETRIEVER there."


For your information I breed Goldendoodles, because I like them, not because they have hybrid vigor, that is just an added plus! And BTW the Golden Retrievers I breed do not have disqualifying faults! There are Retrievers I have bred that you can see on my web site that look far better than yours does!

You said:"You claim that SAS is a minor health concern when in reality, it is a potentially deadly heart disorder."
SAS is not something that shows up often in Goldendoodles like it does in Golden Retrievers! I did not say SAS is a minor health concern in general, you took it out of context, I said SAS is a minor health concern for a GOLDENDOOLE and I make this statement based on what I have read and from my own experience thus far.

You said: "Bred uncleared Poodles to Goldens to produce dogs that she claims are "healthier" than purebreds based on hybrid vigor, something which may or may not be present in dogs - "
Well I've already addresses the hybrid vigor issue and as for my Poodles they do have their prelims from OFA and they were x-rayed at 22 months of age (that's only 2 months shy of 24 months), because I wanted to use them for breeding and didn't want to wait another 2 months and then another month after that for test results! I x-rayed them at 6 months and then again at 22 months, there was no reason to x-ray them again a third time 2 months later!!!

Read the OFA web site statistics on prelims at that age! ONCE AGAIN YOU ARGUE WITH THE EXPERTS! I did not initial the release authorization and that is why they are not coming up on the OFA web site. Back at that time the release authorization was for something else, it had nothing to do with releasing preliminary information for dogs that passed their prelims! You even stated yourself that is something new! I have the OFA prelims here for anyone to view them and verify them, they can be verified through the vet that took the x-rays Dr. Alex Stern and through the OFA's Dr. Keller that read and graded them! The OFA not only mails the results back to the dogs owner, they also mail the results back to the dog owners vet that took the x-ray's, so my vet can also verify the results!

You said: "The breeders who are members of the GRCA cannot advertise their dogs in the GR News without having final clearances so only doing prelims would be detrimental to them in the long run."

My response to that is what those breeders do is not my business, I do NOT advertise in the GR News! I have read what the OFA has to say about prelim statistics and I am comfortable breeding my dogs if they pass their prelims! If I was breeding dysplastic dogs I would have been out of business by now! Further more a dog with an excellent final OFA can still produce puppies with OCD, elbow dysplaisa and CHD, just because they have good hips doesn't mean they do not carry the gene for CHD, the purpose of OFA is for the breeder to know they are breeding sound dogs and then they have to be honest enough that if their sound dog continuously produces unsound dogs, then they need to have that dog fixed! Are you aware that Laurell's purposely bred a dog that they knew was dysplastic? You seem to be fond of the Laurell's dogs! There are plenty of show breeders that wouldn't fix their dogs, because they spent so much money making them champions, they rely solely on their dog having an OFA certificate instead of relying on statistics of what their dogs produce!

Example: You made comments about Rush Hill's Joy To The World's bloodlines, she comes from lines that many many show dogs come from!

You said:"I'll do your homework for you - your bitch from Mega lines is Rush Hill's Joy To The World. In addition, her sire, Magnum, died of hemangiosarcoma as did many of his siblings and children. Any other research of your lines that you'd like me to do for you? Oh, yes, the Gold-Rush that you so heavily relied on in the beginning carries both cancer and heart disorders."
I ask everyone reading this to go look at her (Rush Hill's Joy To The World) pedigree on k9data, you can look up all the offspring and siblings of Magnum's, if what your saying is true, then that is even more reason people should buy Goldendoodles, Magnum is in hundreds of Golden Retriever pedigrees! Another case of a popular show dog being used over and over again as a sire, for anyone reading this please go to this web site below, they discuss what they call FREQUENTLY USED SIRES and how it can harmfully affect a breed:
1) The Canine Diversity Project is (from their website):
The Canine Diversity Project is an attempt to acquaint breeders of domesticated Canidae (dogs) with the dangers of inbreeding and the overuse of popular sires.

This Gold-Rush dog that you have accused me of heavily relying on, which dog is this?

You said: And yes, we have 2 dogs with similar pedigrees. However, the dog I spoke of comes from lines that are in NO way related to these dogs. Your assertion that I implied that they did is incorrect.
You need to tell me which Gold-Rush dog you were speaking of, because you do have Gold-Rush dogs in your pedigree, so don't tell me they are not related, because they are!!!


CERF
My dogs are CERF tested and passing, you said they were not, yet you knew very well that you don't have to mail the tests to CERF! Yet you were quick to state that I did not CERF test my dogs and that I was breeding Poodles with no clearances!

A preliminary OFA and a CERF test in a court of law will be considered health clearances! You committed libel when you said I was breeding Poodles with no clearances! That's why you didn't want me to find out who you were! I'm sure you also didn't want me to gather information on you and your pedigrees!

You said:"I deleted your prelim information from thepoodlepedigree database because as I said above, the information on the prelims should have been available on the OFA website unless you elected not to share it and even the OFA does not consider a prelim as a final certification."

YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS CHANGING THE INFORMATION FOR MY DOGS ON K9DATA OR POODLEPEDIGREE! THE INFORMATION I PUT ON THOSE WEB SITES WAS TRUE AND CORRECT, SO WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN DOGS, NOT MINE! YOU MUST SERIOUSLY HAVE NO LIFE AND TONS OF TIME ON YOUR HANDS!!! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GO DELETE ALL THE INFORMATION FOR YOUR DOG AND FOR ALL YOUR DOGS SIBLINGS???

Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose:

I was only on her papers as a co-owner and those weren't even all my litters!
I only had 3 litters from her! I'm not even on her papers anymore!
I disagree with the dates you have given for her litters, because I have never heard of a dog coming in heat that close together and the AKC doesn't even register litters bred that close together, so I will have to research the dates with the AKC, because I have not had time to do so. Her first litter was an accident and accidents do happen! Nevertheless it is better to breed a younger female rather than an older one and to breed a female back to back has no ill side affects if she is cared for properly. An intact female that goes too many heats without being bred has far more chances of getting "pyrometra",
which can kill her!!! It is far better to breed a younger female and retire her still young and it is far better to breed a younger female back to back, rather than to keep skipping heats and breed her when she's older!

Example: If you breed a female starting at 3-4 every other heat and retire her at 7-8, it is worse for her and her offspring than if you bred her at 1 year and bred her back to back a few times and then retired her at 4. I myself personally have enough female dogs where I can still retire them young and not have to breed them back to back! However there are plenty of breeders that breed their females back to back and it is NOT harmful to the female or to her pups!

If you do not agree with me I don't care, save your comments, because you can ask any vet and they will agree with me!

Megaesophagus:

I do not read the GRCA web site and I do not get the GR News, so I would not have any idea about those articles regarding Mega, I had NEVER even heard of Mega before!

You had previously mentioned a Gold-Rush dog that is from lines known for heart problems, which dog is this, because I see Gold-Rush dogs in your dogs pedigree! You accused me of basing my foundation stock on this dog, but you never said which dog you were speaking of? Why would you bad mouth Gold-Rush, but then have a dog out of Gold-Rush lines? Why wouldn't you stay clear of any Gold-Rush dogs??? I would also like to know where you got your information from, so that I can go and verify it! Don't talk about another breeders lines unless you can back it up with facts! I can easily contact Ann Johnson the owner of Gold-Rush and verify anything you claim!

You also said:
"Oh, yes, the Gold-Rush that you so heavily relied on in the beginning carries both cancer and heart disorders."

And you said:
I'll do your homework for you - your bitch from Mega lines is Rush Hill's Joy To The World. In addition, her sire, Magnum, died of hemangiosarcoma as did many of his siblings and children.

However this is untrue, go look at your dogs 5 generation pedigree they are definitely related! Your dog does come from Gold-Rush dogs that are in BOTH dogs pedigrees!

You also accused me of hiding my dogs, when in fact they are all listed on k9data, again you keep committing libel! Imported dogs come pre-named and the AKC will not allow you to rename them, so you can not type in "Tropico" and expect to find all my dogs!

You said:
If you weren't so busy trying to mask all of the fallacies you have spouted here, you would know that. I'll give you a hint, take a look on K9data at the Tropico dogs that you DIDN'T enter. If you can't figure it out from there, that's your problem.

YOUR THE ONLY ONE MASKING FALLACIES, YOU BETTER KNOW SOMETHING FOR A FACT BEFORE YOU SAY IT ON A PUBLIC FORUM SEE YOU IN COURT!!!


You have also said over and over that I have unhappy customers, where are they??? Look at all the clients who have come on here to DEFEND me! I don't see any complaints???

You said:"BTW, none of your puppy owners have actually identified themselves here as you claim. Natasha from West Hills California isn't exactly enough information to identify her with, is it? And Beth from Atlanta, yep, she's really easy to identify from that information."

This week I will be posting on my web site an article about Ellen & her Goldendoodle Charley, Ellen is one of my clients that came on here and defended me, she has both a Goldendoodle and a Golden from me, her Goldendoodle is a service dog at UCLA hospital!

YOU DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE YOUR INFORMATION BECAUSE YOU KNEW THEN I COULD SUE YOU FOR LIBEL, IF YOU HAD BEEN TELLING THE TRUTH THEN YOU WOULD HAVE HAD NO PROBLEM SAYING WHO YOU WERE!!!
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#4 REBUTTAL Owner of company

To: P - Colorado Springs (Pam Saxton-Golden Retriever Breeder!!!)

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

Now for someone who is so adamant on health clearances, I have gathered some information off of the k9data web site in regards to your dogs pedigree. I only went back the first 3 generations and this is what I found, now mind you, you stated good breeders test their dogs for: hips, elbows, eyes, heart, Vw and thyroid and that they should all be finals! So why would you buy a dog unless it came from a pedigree of all completely tested dogs? According to you the breeder is not an "ethical" breeder unless they do ALL the final testing on ALL of their breeding stock, that's what you said right?

CH Tuxedo's Acclaim To Fame OS, hip & eye only

CH Tuxedo's Champagne Punch, no elbow

Am. CH Laurell's Cause For Applause OS SDHF, no heart

Am. CH Summit's Almond Delight OD, hip only

Am. Ch. Faera's Future Classic OS, no thyroid

Am. CH Laurell's Going Hollywood OD, hip & eye only

Am/Can CH. Freedom's Celebration OS, hip, eye & thyroid only, no elbow, no heart

AmCH Laurell's Scarlett O'Beara OD SDHF, hip & eye only

Am/Can Ch Miramichi's Pier Connection OS, hip only

Hybrid Vigor: Klondike's Chato De Shamrock, hip only

Am CH Asterling's Buster Keaton OS, hip & eye only

Am CH Faera's Puppy Kidd OD, hip, eye & heart only

BISS Am. CH. Asterling Go Getm Gangbuster OS SDHF, hip & eye only

Am. CH Laurell's Final Play OD, hip only


Hybrid Vigor:

They all have to do with hybrid vigor, because they all explain about the need for diversity in a gene pool! They are all along the same subject line in regards to genes and diversity of genes. You ramble on as if you know anything, as I said previously your not a vet, your not a geneticist, I have provided you with a web site specifically about hybrid vigor, it was written by a vet who is also married to another vet and she is also a "geneticist", show me a web site or an article that says anything to the contrary of what she says, that is written by someone with EQUAL schooling as she has, show me even one??? YOU CAN'T!!! Unlike you I have never acted like I was an expert on any given subject! Why do you accuse me of something that your guilty of doing!

You said: "Claimed to be knowledgeable about Golden Retrievers and genetics"

Show me where I claim this???

You said:"Hmm..she's a labradoodle breeder."

SO??? She breeds Labradoodles, because according to her they are healthier than Labs or Poodles! She's the one with the schooling NOT YOU!

Further more if you know so much, then why were you so stupid as to make the comment about Ariel???

You said: "Claimed to be responsible yet breeds dogs with disqualifying faults - info gathered from her website.*** Tropico's Little Mermaid - Ariel, the bitch that you advertise as a "F1 Goldendoodle". Again, more lies from you. It is a genetic impossibility for a Goldendoodle to look that much like either one of it's parents. This is the same bitch that you sold to Misbehav'n Doodles. Funny how she's advertised as a GOLDEN RETRIEVER there."


For your information I breed Goldendoodles, because I like them, not because they have hybrid vigor, that is just an added plus! And BTW the Golden Retrievers I breed do not have disqualifying faults! There are Retrievers I have bred that you can see on my web site that look far better than yours does!

You said:"You claim that SAS is a minor health concern when in reality, it is a potentially deadly heart disorder."
SAS is not something that shows up often in Goldendoodles like it does in Golden Retrievers! I did not say SAS is a minor health concern in general, you took it out of context, I said SAS is a minor health concern for a GOLDENDOOLE and I make this statement based on what I have read and from my own experience thus far.

You said: "Bred uncleared Poodles to Goldens to produce dogs that she claims are "healthier" than purebreds based on hybrid vigor, something which may or may not be present in dogs - "
Well I've already addresses the hybrid vigor issue and as for my Poodles they do have their prelims from OFA and they were x-rayed at 22 months of age (that's only 2 months shy of 24 months), because I wanted to use them for breeding and didn't want to wait another 2 months and then another month after that for test results! I x-rayed them at 6 months and then again at 22 months, there was no reason to x-ray them again a third time 2 months later!!!

Read the OFA web site statistics on prelims at that age! ONCE AGAIN YOU ARGUE WITH THE EXPERTS! I did not initial the release authorization and that is why they are not coming up on the OFA web site. Back at that time the release authorization was for something else, it had nothing to do with releasing preliminary information for dogs that passed their prelims! You even stated yourself that is something new! I have the OFA prelims here for anyone to view them and verify them, they can be verified through the vet that took the x-rays Dr. Alex Stern and through the OFA's Dr. Keller that read and graded them! The OFA not only mails the results back to the dogs owner, they also mail the results back to the dog owners vet that took the x-ray's, so my vet can also verify the results!

You said: "The breeders who are members of the GRCA cannot advertise their dogs in the GR News without having final clearances so only doing prelims would be detrimental to them in the long run."

My response to that is what those breeders do is not my business, I do NOT advertise in the GR News! I have read what the OFA has to say about prelim statistics and I am comfortable breeding my dogs if they pass their prelims! If I was breeding dysplastic dogs I would have been out of business by now! Further more a dog with an excellent final OFA can still produce puppies with OCD, elbow dysplaisa and CHD, just because they have good hips doesn't mean they do not carry the gene for CHD, the purpose of OFA is for the breeder to know they are breeding sound dogs and then they have to be honest enough that if their sound dog continuously produces unsound dogs, then they need to have that dog fixed! Are you aware that Laurell's purposely bred a dog that they knew was dysplastic? You seem to be fond of the Laurell's dogs! There are plenty of show breeders that wouldn't fix their dogs, because they spent so much money making them champions, they rely solely on their dog having an OFA certificate instead of relying on statistics of what their dogs produce!

Example: You made comments about Rush Hill's Joy To The World's bloodlines, she comes from lines that many many show dogs come from!

You said:"I'll do your homework for you - your bitch from Mega lines is Rush Hill's Joy To The World. In addition, her sire, Magnum, died of hemangiosarcoma as did many of his siblings and children. Any other research of your lines that you'd like me to do for you? Oh, yes, the Gold-Rush that you so heavily relied on in the beginning carries both cancer and heart disorders."
I ask everyone reading this to go look at her (Rush Hill's Joy To The World) pedigree on k9data, you can look up all the offspring and siblings of Magnum's, if what your saying is true, then that is even more reason people should buy Goldendoodles, Magnum is in hundreds of Golden Retriever pedigrees! Another case of a popular show dog being used over and over again as a sire, for anyone reading this please go to this web site below, they discuss what they call FREQUENTLY USED SIRES and how it can harmfully affect a breed:
1) The Canine Diversity Project is (from their website):
The Canine Diversity Project is an attempt to acquaint breeders of domesticated Canidae (dogs) with the dangers of inbreeding and the overuse of popular sires.

This Gold-Rush dog that you have accused me of heavily relying on, which dog is this?

You said: And yes, we have 2 dogs with similar pedigrees. However, the dog I spoke of comes from lines that are in NO way related to these dogs. Your assertion that I implied that they did is incorrect.
You need to tell me which Gold-Rush dog you were speaking of, because you do have Gold-Rush dogs in your pedigree, so don't tell me they are not related, because they are!!!


CERF
My dogs are CERF tested and passing, you said they were not, yet you knew very well that you don't have to mail the tests to CERF! Yet you were quick to state that I did not CERF test my dogs and that I was breeding Poodles with no clearances!

A preliminary OFA and a CERF test in a court of law will be considered health clearances! You committed libel when you said I was breeding Poodles with no clearances! That's why you didn't want me to find out who you were! I'm sure you also didn't want me to gather information on you and your pedigrees!

You said:"I deleted your prelim information from thepoodlepedigree database because as I said above, the information on the prelims should have been available on the OFA website unless you elected not to share it and even the OFA does not consider a prelim as a final certification."

YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS CHANGING THE INFORMATION FOR MY DOGS ON K9DATA OR POODLEPEDIGREE! THE INFORMATION I PUT ON THOSE WEB SITES WAS TRUE AND CORRECT, SO WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN DOGS, NOT MINE! YOU MUST SERIOUSLY HAVE NO LIFE AND TONS OF TIME ON YOUR HANDS!!! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GO DELETE ALL THE INFORMATION FOR YOUR DOG AND FOR ALL YOUR DOGS SIBLINGS???

Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose:

I was only on her papers as a co-owner and those weren't even all my litters!
I only had 3 litters from her! I'm not even on her papers anymore!
I disagree with the dates you have given for her litters, because I have never heard of a dog coming in heat that close together and the AKC doesn't even register litters bred that close together, so I will have to research the dates with the AKC, because I have not had time to do so. Her first litter was an accident and accidents do happen! Nevertheless it is better to breed a younger female rather than an older one and to breed a female back to back has no ill side affects if she is cared for properly. An intact female that goes too many heats without being bred has far more chances of getting "pyrometra",
which can kill her!!! It is far better to breed a younger female and retire her still young and it is far better to breed a younger female back to back, rather than to keep skipping heats and breed her when she's older!

Example: If you breed a female starting at 3-4 every other heat and retire her at 7-8, it is worse for her and her offspring than if you bred her at 1 year and bred her back to back a few times and then retired her at 4. I myself personally have enough female dogs where I can still retire them young and not have to breed them back to back! However there are plenty of breeders that breed their females back to back and it is NOT harmful to the female or to her pups!

If you do not agree with me I don't care, save your comments, because you can ask any vet and they will agree with me!

Megaesophagus:

I do not read the GRCA web site and I do not get the GR News, so I would not have any idea about those articles regarding Mega, I had NEVER even heard of Mega before!

You had previously mentioned a Gold-Rush dog that is from lines known for heart problems, which dog is this, because I see Gold-Rush dogs in your dogs pedigree! You accused me of basing my foundation stock on this dog, but you never said which dog you were speaking of? Why would you bad mouth Gold-Rush, but then have a dog out of Gold-Rush lines? Why wouldn't you stay clear of any Gold-Rush dogs??? I would also like to know where you got your information from, so that I can go and verify it! Don't talk about another breeders lines unless you can back it up with facts! I can easily contact Ann Johnson the owner of Gold-Rush and verify anything you claim!

You also said:
"Oh, yes, the Gold-Rush that you so heavily relied on in the beginning carries both cancer and heart disorders."

And you said:
I'll do your homework for you - your bitch from Mega lines is Rush Hill's Joy To The World. In addition, her sire, Magnum, died of hemangiosarcoma as did many of his siblings and children.

However this is untrue, go look at your dogs 5 generation pedigree they are definitely related! Your dog does come from Gold-Rush dogs that are in BOTH dogs pedigrees!

You also accused me of hiding my dogs, when in fact they are all listed on k9data, again you keep committing libel! Imported dogs come pre-named and the AKC will not allow you to rename them, so you can not type in "Tropico" and expect to find all my dogs!

You said:
If you weren't so busy trying to mask all of the fallacies you have spouted here, you would know that. I'll give you a hint, take a look on K9data at the Tropico dogs that you DIDN'T enter. If you can't figure it out from there, that's your problem.

YOUR THE ONLY ONE MASKING FALLACIES, YOU BETTER KNOW SOMETHING FOR A FACT BEFORE YOU SAY IT ON A PUBLIC FORUM SEE YOU IN COURT!!!


You have also said over and over that I have unhappy customers, where are they??? Look at all the clients who have come on here to DEFEND me! I don't see any complaints???

You said:"BTW, none of your puppy owners have actually identified themselves here as you claim. Natasha from West Hills California isn't exactly enough information to identify her with, is it? And Beth from Atlanta, yep, she's really easy to identify from that information."

This week I will be posting on my web site an article about Ellen & her Goldendoodle Charley, Ellen is one of my clients that came on here and defended me, she has both a Goldendoodle and a Golden from me, her Goldendoodle is a service dog at UCLA hospital!

YOU DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE YOUR INFORMATION BECAUSE YOU KNEW THEN I COULD SUE YOU FOR LIBEL, IF YOU HAD BEEN TELLING THE TRUTH THEN YOU WOULD HAVE HAD NO PROBLEM SAYING WHO YOU WERE!!!
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#5 REBUTTAL Owner of company

To: P - Colorado Springs (Pam Saxton-Golden Retriever Breeder!!!)

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

Now for someone who is so adamant on health clearances, I have gathered some information off of the k9data web site in regards to your dogs pedigree. I only went back the first 3 generations and this is what I found, now mind you, you stated good breeders test their dogs for: hips, elbows, eyes, heart, Vw and thyroid and that they should all be finals! So why would you buy a dog unless it came from a pedigree of all completely tested dogs? According to you the breeder is not an "ethical" breeder unless they do ALL the final testing on ALL of their breeding stock, that's what you said right?

CH Tuxedo's Acclaim To Fame OS, hip & eye only

CH Tuxedo's Champagne Punch, no elbow

Am. CH Laurell's Cause For Applause OS SDHF, no heart

Am. CH Summit's Almond Delight OD, hip only

Am. Ch. Faera's Future Classic OS, no thyroid

Am. CH Laurell's Going Hollywood OD, hip & eye only

Am/Can CH. Freedom's Celebration OS, hip, eye & thyroid only, no elbow, no heart

AmCH Laurell's Scarlett O'Beara OD SDHF, hip & eye only

Am/Can Ch Miramichi's Pier Connection OS, hip only

Hybrid Vigor: Klondike's Chato De Shamrock, hip only

Am CH Asterling's Buster Keaton OS, hip & eye only

Am CH Faera's Puppy Kidd OD, hip, eye & heart only

BISS Am. CH. Asterling Go Getm Gangbuster OS SDHF, hip & eye only

Am. CH Laurell's Final Play OD, hip only


Hybrid Vigor:

They all have to do with hybrid vigor, because they all explain about the need for diversity in a gene pool! They are all along the same subject line in regards to genes and diversity of genes. You ramble on as if you know anything, as I said previously your not a vet, your not a geneticist, I have provided you with a web site specifically about hybrid vigor, it was written by a vet who is also married to another vet and she is also a "geneticist", show me a web site or an article that says anything to the contrary of what she says, that is written by someone with EQUAL schooling as she has, show me even one??? YOU CAN'T!!! Unlike you I have never acted like I was an expert on any given subject! Why do you accuse me of something that your guilty of doing!

You said: "Claimed to be knowledgeable about Golden Retrievers and genetics"

Show me where I claim this???

You said:"Hmm..she's a labradoodle breeder."

SO??? She breeds Labradoodles, because according to her they are healthier than Labs or Poodles! She's the one with the schooling NOT YOU!

Further more if you know so much, then why were you so stupid as to make the comment about Ariel???

You said: "Claimed to be responsible yet breeds dogs with disqualifying faults - info gathered from her website.*** Tropico's Little Mermaid - Ariel, the bitch that you advertise as a "F1 Goldendoodle". Again, more lies from you. It is a genetic impossibility for a Goldendoodle to look that much like either one of it's parents. This is the same bitch that you sold to Misbehav'n Doodles. Funny how she's advertised as a GOLDEN RETRIEVER there."


For your information I breed Goldendoodles, because I like them, not because they have hybrid vigor, that is just an added plus! And BTW the Golden Retrievers I breed do not have disqualifying faults! There are Retrievers I have bred that you can see on my web site that look far better than yours does!

You said:"You claim that SAS is a minor health concern when in reality, it is a potentially deadly heart disorder."
SAS is not something that shows up often in Goldendoodles like it does in Golden Retrievers! I did not say SAS is a minor health concern in general, you took it out of context, I said SAS is a minor health concern for a GOLDENDOOLE and I make this statement based on what I have read and from my own experience thus far.

You said: "Bred uncleared Poodles to Goldens to produce dogs that she claims are "healthier" than purebreds based on hybrid vigor, something which may or may not be present in dogs - "
Well I've already addresses the hybrid vigor issue and as for my Poodles they do have their prelims from OFA and they were x-rayed at 22 months of age (that's only 2 months shy of 24 months), because I wanted to use them for breeding and didn't want to wait another 2 months and then another month after that for test results! I x-rayed them at 6 months and then again at 22 months, there was no reason to x-ray them again a third time 2 months later!!!

Read the OFA web site statistics on prelims at that age! ONCE AGAIN YOU ARGUE WITH THE EXPERTS! I did not initial the release authorization and that is why they are not coming up on the OFA web site. Back at that time the release authorization was for something else, it had nothing to do with releasing preliminary information for dogs that passed their prelims! You even stated yourself that is something new! I have the OFA prelims here for anyone to view them and verify them, they can be verified through the vet that took the x-rays Dr. Alex Stern and through the OFA's Dr. Keller that read and graded them! The OFA not only mails the results back to the dogs owner, they also mail the results back to the dog owners vet that took the x-ray's, so my vet can also verify the results!

You said: "The breeders who are members of the GRCA cannot advertise their dogs in the GR News without having final clearances so only doing prelims would be detrimental to them in the long run."

My response to that is what those breeders do is not my business, I do NOT advertise in the GR News! I have read what the OFA has to say about prelim statistics and I am comfortable breeding my dogs if they pass their prelims! If I was breeding dysplastic dogs I would have been out of business by now! Further more a dog with an excellent final OFA can still produce puppies with OCD, elbow dysplaisa and CHD, just because they have good hips doesn't mean they do not carry the gene for CHD, the purpose of OFA is for the breeder to know they are breeding sound dogs and then they have to be honest enough that if their sound dog continuously produces unsound dogs, then they need to have that dog fixed! Are you aware that Laurell's purposely bred a dog that they knew was dysplastic? You seem to be fond of the Laurell's dogs! There are plenty of show breeders that wouldn't fix their dogs, because they spent so much money making them champions, they rely solely on their dog having an OFA certificate instead of relying on statistics of what their dogs produce!

Example: You made comments about Rush Hill's Joy To The World's bloodlines, she comes from lines that many many show dogs come from!

You said:"I'll do your homework for you - your bitch from Mega lines is Rush Hill's Joy To The World. In addition, her sire, Magnum, died of hemangiosarcoma as did many of his siblings and children. Any other research of your lines that you'd like me to do for you? Oh, yes, the Gold-Rush that you so heavily relied on in the beginning carries both cancer and heart disorders."
I ask everyone reading this to go look at her (Rush Hill's Joy To The World) pedigree on k9data, you can look up all the offspring and siblings of Magnum's, if what your saying is true, then that is even more reason people should buy Goldendoodles, Magnum is in hundreds of Golden Retriever pedigrees! Another case of a popular show dog being used over and over again as a sire, for anyone reading this please go to this web site below, they discuss what they call FREQUENTLY USED SIRES and how it can harmfully affect a breed:
1) The Canine Diversity Project is (from their website):
The Canine Diversity Project is an attempt to acquaint breeders of domesticated Canidae (dogs) with the dangers of inbreeding and the overuse of popular sires.

This Gold-Rush dog that you have accused me of heavily relying on, which dog is this?

You said: And yes, we have 2 dogs with similar pedigrees. However, the dog I spoke of comes from lines that are in NO way related to these dogs. Your assertion that I implied that they did is incorrect.
You need to tell me which Gold-Rush dog you were speaking of, because you do have Gold-Rush dogs in your pedigree, so don't tell me they are not related, because they are!!!


CERF
My dogs are CERF tested and passing, you said they were not, yet you knew very well that you don't have to mail the tests to CERF! Yet you were quick to state that I did not CERF test my dogs and that I was breeding Poodles with no clearances!

A preliminary OFA and a CERF test in a court of law will be considered health clearances! You committed libel when you said I was breeding Poodles with no clearances! That's why you didn't want me to find out who you were! I'm sure you also didn't want me to gather information on you and your pedigrees!

You said:"I deleted your prelim information from thepoodlepedigree database because as I said above, the information on the prelims should have been available on the OFA website unless you elected not to share it and even the OFA does not consider a prelim as a final certification."

YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS CHANGING THE INFORMATION FOR MY DOGS ON K9DATA OR POODLEPEDIGREE! THE INFORMATION I PUT ON THOSE WEB SITES WAS TRUE AND CORRECT, SO WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN DOGS, NOT MINE! YOU MUST SERIOUSLY HAVE NO LIFE AND TONS OF TIME ON YOUR HANDS!!! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GO DELETE ALL THE INFORMATION FOR YOUR DOG AND FOR ALL YOUR DOGS SIBLINGS???

Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose:

I was only on her papers as a co-owner and those weren't even all my litters!
I only had 3 litters from her! I'm not even on her papers anymore!
I disagree with the dates you have given for her litters, because I have never heard of a dog coming in heat that close together and the AKC doesn't even register litters bred that close together, so I will have to research the dates with the AKC, because I have not had time to do so. Her first litter was an accident and accidents do happen! Nevertheless it is better to breed a younger female rather than an older one and to breed a female back to back has no ill side affects if she is cared for properly. An intact female that goes too many heats without being bred has far more chances of getting "pyrometra",
which can kill her!!! It is far better to breed a younger female and retire her still young and it is far better to breed a younger female back to back, rather than to keep skipping heats and breed her when she's older!

Example: If you breed a female starting at 3-4 every other heat and retire her at 7-8, it is worse for her and her offspring than if you bred her at 1 year and bred her back to back a few times and then retired her at 4. I myself personally have enough female dogs where I can still retire them young and not have to breed them back to back! However there are plenty of breeders that breed their females back to back and it is NOT harmful to the female or to her pups!

If you do not agree with me I don't care, save your comments, because you can ask any vet and they will agree with me!

Megaesophagus:

I do not read the GRCA web site and I do not get the GR News, so I would not have any idea about those articles regarding Mega, I had NEVER even heard of Mega before!

You had previously mentioned a Gold-Rush dog that is from lines known for heart problems, which dog is this, because I see Gold-Rush dogs in your dogs pedigree! You accused me of basing my foundation stock on this dog, but you never said which dog you were speaking of? Why would you bad mouth Gold-Rush, but then have a dog out of Gold-Rush lines? Why wouldn't you stay clear of any Gold-Rush dogs??? I would also like to know where you got your information from, so that I can go and verify it! Don't talk about another breeders lines unless you can back it up with facts! I can easily contact Ann Johnson the owner of Gold-Rush and verify anything you claim!

You also said:
"Oh, yes, the Gold-Rush that you so heavily relied on in the beginning carries both cancer and heart disorders."

And you said:
I'll do your homework for you - your bitch from Mega lines is Rush Hill's Joy To The World. In addition, her sire, Magnum, died of hemangiosarcoma as did many of his siblings and children.

However this is untrue, go look at your dogs 5 generation pedigree they are definitely related! Your dog does come from Gold-Rush dogs that are in BOTH dogs pedigrees!

You also accused me of hiding my dogs, when in fact they are all listed on k9data, again you keep committing libel! Imported dogs come pre-named and the AKC will not allow you to rename them, so you can not type in "Tropico" and expect to find all my dogs!

You said:
If you weren't so busy trying to mask all of the fallacies you have spouted here, you would know that. I'll give you a hint, take a look on K9data at the Tropico dogs that you DIDN'T enter. If you can't figure it out from there, that's your problem.

YOUR THE ONLY ONE MASKING FALLACIES, YOU BETTER KNOW SOMETHING FOR A FACT BEFORE YOU SAY IT ON A PUBLIC FORUM SEE YOU IN COURT!!!


You have also said over and over that I have unhappy customers, where are they??? Look at all the clients who have come on here to DEFEND me! I don't see any complaints???

You said:"BTW, none of your puppy owners have actually identified themselves here as you claim. Natasha from West Hills California isn't exactly enough information to identify her with, is it? And Beth from Atlanta, yep, she's really easy to identify from that information."

This week I will be posting on my web site an article about Ellen & her Goldendoodle Charley, Ellen is one of my clients that came on here and defended me, she has both a Goldendoodle and a Golden from me, her Goldendoodle is a service dog at UCLA hospital!

YOU DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE YOUR INFORMATION BECAUSE YOU KNEW THEN I COULD SUE YOU FOR LIBEL, IF YOU HAD BEEN TELLING THE TRUTH THEN YOU WOULD HAVE HAD NO PROBLEM SAYING WHO YOU WERE!!!
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#6 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Tropico Kennels - Responds To False Allegations

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

Pam, I knew this would happen, that if I ever found out who you were and gathered information on you, that you would shut up and I was right! I KNEW IT!!!

Here are some final comments from me:

Pam's dog comes from a bloodline of dogs that are not all cleared for hips, elbows, eyes and hearts, yet she advises the public that they need to make sure they buy a dog from such a bloodline! Pam is a hypocrite!

Laura Ellis Kling the owner of the Laurell's bloodline bred a dog that she knew was dysplastic, however Pam would not comment on it when I previously brought it up, because Laura Kling is VERY respected in the Golden Retriever show dog community and she is a member of the GRCA, a club that has "supposedly" set guidelines for breeding ethics and is supposed to only allow breeders in their club that follow these guidelines (which is obviously not the case). Pam's dog is out of Laurell's bloodlines. I personally have nothing against the Laurell's bloodline and I feel that whatever Laura Kling does is her own business, I am just making a point as to what a HYPOCRITE Pam is! Her view on "ethics" changes from breeder to breeder, it's not a set code of ethics, it's just when and if it suits Pam!

Pam could not provide any information to back up her view point in regards to hybrid vigor. All the web sites that are against mixed breeds are all written by pure breed dog breeders. Pure breed dog sales have declined since mix breeds have gotten so popular, so I think it's obvious that pure breed dog breeders have their own agenda as to why they so adamantly want to turn the public against mixed breeds! If you go to chat rooms like The Doodle Zoo or the one that's part of the Goldendoodle web site, you will find actual owners of Doodles raving about their dogs!

Pam attacked me and accused me of knowing there was mega in my now retired dogs bloodline "Rush Hills Joy To The World". She also attacked me and said I based my bloodlines on a Gold-Rush dog and commented on how Gold-Rush lines have health problems, but what Pam didn't count on was me finding out who she was and then being able to investigate her bloodlines, what I found out is that her dog comes from Gold-Rush dogs, so ironically her dog is related to both the dogs that she bashed!!! This can be verified by looking at the 5 generation pedigree for Pam's dog "Shiloh's All Bets Are Off" and for "Rush Hills Joy To The World" and for the other dog she must have been talking about, because it's the only Gold-Rush dog that I used to own that she has mentioned "Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose". All three of those dogs are related. Pam has the nerve to bash my dogs when her dog is related to both of them, but again she never thought anyone would find that out, in fact she even tried to DENY it in one of her previous threads, but doesn't she feel like a fool now!

Pam went on a web site for "Poodle" pedigrees and deleted truthful and correct information that I had posted for "MY" Poodles.

Pam accused me of breeding uncleared Poodles, that was a lie, my Poodles are cleared for hips, elbows, hearts and patella's by the OFA and by CERF for their eyes, all of which can be verified!

Pam is a hypocrite, Pam never thought I would find out who she was!!!

Pam did not come on this web site to educate the public, she came on here to try to make me look bad, because I breed Goldendoodles and Golden Retrievers and she is against mixing Goldens with other breeds! The person who started this entire thread was Pam's very good friend another Golden Retriever breeder named "Clairyce Dolson Gaston" she owns RDO Golden Retrievers, she is in very close vicinity to me and so I am her competition! Clairyce has also bashed another Golden Retriever breeder named Jennifer Arn on this same web site, that also just happens to be in close vicinity to her as well, how ironic!

There has not been even one person that has purchased a dog from me that has come on this web site and said anything negative about me, in fact several of my clients have come on this web site just to defend me!

I do plan to sue Pam and Clairyce for defamation of character, libel and slander, I have already hired an attorney.

If anyone has any other pertinent information regarding Pam Saxton or Clairyce Dolson Gaston, that they find in say like maybe other chat rooms etc... please contact me by email. I am offering $1000 up to $5000 in rewards (the amount is depending on the quality of the information), the reward is for any pertinent information that helps me convict them of libel, slander and defamation of character, the information must be valid and verifiable as it must be presentable to a judge. Statements under penalty of perjury that have been notarized would be admissible, so if you've been told something negative about me from either of these two women you can write your own statement about what you've heard.

Lisa-from Tropico Kennels
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#7 Consumer Comment

To Lisa:

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

Let's start with the easy stuff:

1) The Canine Diversity Project is (from their website):
The Canine Diversity Project is an attempt to acquaint breeders of domesticated Canidae (dogs) with the dangers of inbreeding and the overuse of popular sires.

There don't seem to be any articles here about hybrid vigor (heterosis) specifically but there are articles about declining gene pools in certain breeds.

2) Purebred Dog Breeds into the Twenty-First Century: Achieving Genetic Health for Our Dogs, by Jeffrey Bragg:

Is exactly what it says it is - an article on how Dr. Bragg believes that PUREBRED dogs can be improved by having an open studbook registry. He mentions heterosis (hybrid vigor) in passing but it is NOT the main focus of the article.

3) The Genetic CUL-DE-SAC:

Another article on the lack of genetic diversity in purebred dogs. There is no information regarding hybrid vigor here either.

4) Kate's Family Pets:

Hmm..she's a labradoodle breeder. I will give her credit though. She understands that hybrid vigor decreases with each successive generation and only breeds to get F1 crosses. She also neuters all of her dogs before they go into new homes.

So, you gave me 4 links, one of which was specifically about hybrid vigor.

Prelims:

The OFA DOES put prelim info on the website:
"In an effort to encourage open sharing of health test results, on January 1, 2004 the OFA began posting preliminary Hip and Elbow results for dogs tested after that date on its website IF the owner initialed the authorization block to release all results (including abnormal results)." So, according to the OFA's web site, if your dogs received their prelims after January of 2004, their information should be on the website, unless you didn't initial the release authorization. Also, prelims are not considered as certifications by the OFA, that's why they aren't issued a final OFA number. If it were possible to make a determination of the actual final result, the actual final ratings would be given BEFORE the dog was 24 months.

Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose:

A litter with you as the breeder was born on 5/17/1998 (pup birthdate verified with the AKC). By your own admission, dogs are pregnant for 2 months. So you bred her around 3/17/1998. She was born 6/28/1997 (birthdate verified with the AKC), which I believe would have made her 9 months old when she was bred the first time, right? 2nd litter born, again, with you listed as breeder, 11/12/1998 with Rose as the mother. If this information isn't true, then you entered it incorrectly because you are the one shown as entering it in the change log. The litter dates listed for Rose are: 5/17/1998, 11/12/1998, 06/05/2000, 09/07/2000, 10/05/2001, and 04/15/2002. As for the comment about bitches only going into season every 6 months, that is an AVERAGE only, bitches can go into season anywhere from 4 months to 2 years. It's all dependent on the bitch. According to the dates in K9data, it looks like Rose went into season at least 2 times when her pups were 4 weeks old.

Megaesophagus:

There is an article from as recently as 2004 with information about Mega on the GRCA website. There have been numerous articles in the GR News about it. I named one dog that came from a line that has produced Mega in the past. I never said that it was the ONLY line that did. If 3 pups that were diagnosed with megaesophagus from the same litter, the odds are that there is Mega in the lines.

Your assertion that "if you do a preliminary OFA when the dog is almost two, most breeders see no reason to x-ray the dog again at two" is your opinion. Most breeders do prelims at a year and then final x-rays at 2 years or they just do final x-rays at 2. Very few do prelims that close to finals because it doesn't make sense. Why only get a prelim when you can wait a few months and make it final? The breeders who are members of the GRCA cannot advertise their dogs in the GR News without having final clearances so only doing prelims would be detrimental to them in the long run.

As for your "outing" me, that's fine. I have nothing to hide. If you had taken just a moment to actually look at Faith's litter, you would have seen that it was not bred by me. The litter was bred after Faith was leased to another breeder. The litter prefix is Rumours, not Ragtym. I have no website advertising pups or a kennel, just an information website called Ragtym's Golden Retriever Information Page. I am not a breeder. Faith is spayed and only had 1 litter. All of this is verifiable through the AKC. If you want to nitpick, there are 3 dogs with the Ragtym prefix or with Ragtym in their name in k9data. However, I'm not the breeder of any of them. I had one accidental litter 20 years ago, it's not in k9data.

I deleted your prelim information from thepoodlepedigree database because as I said above, the information on the prelims should have been available on the OFA website unless you elected not to share it and even the OFA does not consider a prelim as a final certification.

And yes, we have 2 dogs with similar pedigrees. However, the dog I spoke of comes from lines that are in NO way related to these dogs. Your assertion that I implied that they did is incorrect.

To anyone who may be looking for a Golden Retriever puppy, please visit the Golden Retriever Club of America website before making a purchase. The GRCA is the parent club of the Golden Retriever and was created to help protect the future of the breed. They have helpful information about the issues that plague Golden Retrievers, information on what to look for in a responsible breeder and guidelines in place that will help to insure that you get a healthy Golden puppy.
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#8 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Tropico Kennels clinets LOVE their dogs, the only people talking negative are JEALOUS GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDERS!

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

I'll make this as short as I possibly can, since your not worth my time! Your just an angry Golden Retriever breeder like Clairyce Dolson Gaston, that can't stand the fact that I breed Goldens and Goldendoodles!!!

Why did you DENY being a Golden Retriever breeder???

As for the statement you made where you said:

"It is a genetic impossibility for a Goldendoodle to look that much like either one of it's parents."

My response to that is your an idiot!

My Mini Goldendoodle named "Ariel" is the daughter of the Golden Retriever named "Ariel" on the Misbhaven web site.
My Ariel was named after her mother, whom Jodi owns, and her father is Jodi's Toy Poodle named Nemo! Just goes to show how much you know about anything!

As for hybrid vigor let's read what the "experts" have to say, like geneticists & vets, because as far as I'm aware your none of those. See info on hybrid vigor below, anyone can Google this info for the web sites below to come up, as this site won't allow me to post the actual links to any of these web sites.

1. The Canine Diversity Project
2. Purebred Dog Breeds into the Twenty-First Century: Achieving Genetic Health for Our Dogs, by Jeffrey Bragg

3. The Genetic CUL-DE-SAC by Susan Thorpe-Vargas Ph.D., John Cargill MA, MBA, MS, D. Caroline Coile, Ph.D.
4. Kate's Family Pets. About Kate, Kate's a veterinarian working in rural New South Wales, who has an Honors degree in genetics as well as a veterinary degree. Her husband Bruce Watt is also a veterinarian.


As for the Poodles & Goldens that I use for breeding, they have all passed OFA & CERF testing and I have the certificates from OFA & the CERF tests from the eye vet in Tustin as proof.

Eye Care for Animals
3025 Edinger Ave
Tustin, CA 92780
949-733-8271

If you do not mail the actual eye test that the vet passes or fails to CERF, then it will not show on the CERF web site, but that doesn't mean that the dog didn't pass the CERF exam, there are plenty of breeders that keep the actual CERF tests and do not mail them to CERF. Unlike an OFA x-ray, which is passed or failed by vets that work for the OFA, the vet you take your dog too for the CERF exam is the one that passes or fails the dog and then if the owner of the dog wants to they can mail the results to CERF at an additional cost to get a CERF number. The eye exam is done yearly, so I see no reason to pay an additional fee for each dog, every year to get a CERF number, I have the actual CERF test with the vets signature, which can be verified.

As for OFA, preliminary OFA's do not show up on the OFA web site and if you do a preliminary OFA when the dog is almost two, most breeders see no reason to x-ray the dog again at two. The dogs not going to get bad hips or elbows in a month or two and unnecessary exposure to x-rays is not good for the dog. This is why the OFA recommends anesthesia, so you do not have to subject the dog to repeat exposure. I have included information copied right off the OFA web site to this regard (see below). The information about repeat exposure and anesthesia are also on the OFA web site.

I'm only using 3 of my Poodles right now, the rest I have never used! I don't even own Chewy, he was sold to another breeder in Fresno a long time ago.

You have named litters of pups and names of dogs that aren't even mine, just because a dog has "Tropico" in front of it's name doesn't mean I own the dog. Every pup that leaves here goes out with the Tropico prefix in front of their name on their papers and if they are on full registration, then sometimes I stay on the papers as a co-owner. Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose I don't even own her, I sold her a very long time ago. One date you gave of a litter right after the other, that's not even possible to have two litters born that close together! Dogs come in heat every 6 months and they are pregnant for 2 months! As for charging more money for full registration papers, when I charge more and the pup goes on full registration it's a pick of the litter puppy (show quality), it's not like I just sell a pet quality puppy for more money on full registration! All breeders charge more for their pick of the litter pups!

I hadn't ever heard of Mega before, NONE of my Goldens have ever had it, so say whatever you like about me not knowing about Mega, I don't see anywhere on my web site where I'm claiming to be the know it all of Golden Retriever lines, that's you accusing me of saying that, but I've never said it! I also do not have any dogs that I'm even breeding out of Rush Hill's Joy to the World, so the Mega didn't come from her! I sold her years ago, the Goldens I'm breeding are from European lines and that's why you don't see them on k9data if your looking under Tropico, because they come from the other countries already named, I'm not "hiding" the dogs as you so claim, they are on k9data under their names.

Anyone who wants to speak with one of the clients who defended me on this web site can email me off of my web site to get any of those people's email addresses, unlike you they have no problem saying who they are, because they are real clients of mine, you only have a problem giving out your identity, because your a Golden Retriever breeder named Pam Saxton. On this web site your initial is P and someone named Pam Saxton changed all my Poodle information off of the Poodlepedigree web site, why did you take down the preliminary OFA information I had on that site??? Why would a Golden Retriever breeder be on a Poodle pedigree web site messing with MY Poodles information??? This web site won't allow me to put email addresses on here or any kind of links, otherwise I would list all those clients of mine email addresses that defended me right on here. BTW why do you check this web site every day??? Why are you so obsessed with me??? Anyone who wants to verify your a Golden Retriever breeder can look on the k9data web site and look you up by the name of one of your dogs: Shilo's All Bets Are Off . They can also verify your dog has off spring on that same web site, that makes you a GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDER!!!!!!! Now that I know who you are I will track down your address and I will include you in the law suit that I have pending against Clairyce Dolson Gaston for slander, defamation of character and libel, I've already hired an attorney to start on a law suit against Clairyce Dolson Gaston! She's the one that started this entire thread and tried to act like she was a ripped off customer and then when I called her on it she admitted who she was!!! Your BOTH Golden Retriever breeders that have committed libel and will be held accountable in a court of law!

Someone who is as wicked and judgmental and medaling as you... I'm sure doesn't lead a very happy life! Go back to the chat rooms and bug the other breeders like you say you do, because I don't have time for you! Have fun checking this web site EVERYDAY like you do, because I won't be back, I'll be following up in a court of law!!! I'm sure you'll have more comments to my comments, which is great for my court case against you!!!

P.S.
The foundation stock of the dogs I am breeding right now come out of my European bloodlines and my Laurell's dog, whom by the way has a pedigree almost identical to your dogs pedigree, so don't go bad mouthing my bloodlines and telling me I have MEGA in them, when you have the same bloodlines, your definitely a real piece of work lady! Anyone can verify what I'm saying, here's the dogs names, anyone can look them up on the k9data web site.

My dog: Laurell's Lookout here I Come
Your dog: Shilo's All Bets Are Off

This was taken off the OFA web site:

OFA policy on Releasing Preliminary Evaluations to the Public Domain.

Frequently, breeders want early knowledge of the hip status on puppies in a given litter. Preliminary hip evaluations may be as valuable to the owner or breeder as the final OFA evaluation. This allows early selection of dogs for use as show/performance/breeding prospects and dogs best suited for pet homes.

The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases.

A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months).

*Corley, EA, et al. Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.
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#9 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Tropico Kennels clinets LOVE their dogs, the only people talking negative are JEALOUS GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDERS!

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

I'll make this as short as I possibly can, since your not worth my time! Your just an angry Golden Retriever breeder like Clairyce Dolson Gaston, that can't stand the fact that I breed Goldens and Goldendoodles!!!

Why did you DENY being a Golden Retriever breeder???

As for the statement you made where you said:

"It is a genetic impossibility for a Goldendoodle to look that much like either one of it's parents."

My response to that is your an idiot!

My Mini Goldendoodle named "Ariel" is the daughter of the Golden Retriever named "Ariel" on the Misbhaven web site.
My Ariel was named after her mother, whom Jodi owns, and her father is Jodi's Toy Poodle named Nemo! Just goes to show how much you know about anything!

As for hybrid vigor let's read what the "experts" have to say, like geneticists & vets, because as far as I'm aware your none of those. See info on hybrid vigor below, anyone can Google this info for the web sites below to come up, as this site won't allow me to post the actual links to any of these web sites.

1. The Canine Diversity Project
2. Purebred Dog Breeds into the Twenty-First Century: Achieving Genetic Health for Our Dogs, by Jeffrey Bragg

3. The Genetic CUL-DE-SAC by Susan Thorpe-Vargas Ph.D., John Cargill MA, MBA, MS, D. Caroline Coile, Ph.D.
4. Kate's Family Pets. About Kate, Kate's a veterinarian working in rural New South Wales, who has an Honors degree in genetics as well as a veterinary degree. Her husband Bruce Watt is also a veterinarian.


As for the Poodles & Goldens that I use for breeding, they have all passed OFA & CERF testing and I have the certificates from OFA & the CERF tests from the eye vet in Tustin as proof.

Eye Care for Animals
3025 Edinger Ave
Tustin, CA 92780
949-733-8271

If you do not mail the actual eye test that the vet passes or fails to CERF, then it will not show on the CERF web site, but that doesn't mean that the dog didn't pass the CERF exam, there are plenty of breeders that keep the actual CERF tests and do not mail them to CERF. Unlike an OFA x-ray, which is passed or failed by vets that work for the OFA, the vet you take your dog too for the CERF exam is the one that passes or fails the dog and then if the owner of the dog wants to they can mail the results to CERF at an additional cost to get a CERF number. The eye exam is done yearly, so I see no reason to pay an additional fee for each dog, every year to get a CERF number, I have the actual CERF test with the vets signature, which can be verified.

As for OFA, preliminary OFA's do not show up on the OFA web site and if you do a preliminary OFA when the dog is almost two, most breeders see no reason to x-ray the dog again at two. The dogs not going to get bad hips or elbows in a month or two and unnecessary exposure to x-rays is not good for the dog. This is why the OFA recommends anesthesia, so you do not have to subject the dog to repeat exposure. I have included information copied right off the OFA web site to this regard (see below). The information about repeat exposure and anesthesia are also on the OFA web site.

I'm only using 3 of my Poodles right now, the rest I have never used! I don't even own Chewy, he was sold to another breeder in Fresno a long time ago.

You have named litters of pups and names of dogs that aren't even mine, just because a dog has "Tropico" in front of it's name doesn't mean I own the dog. Every pup that leaves here goes out with the Tropico prefix in front of their name on their papers and if they are on full registration, then sometimes I stay on the papers as a co-owner. Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose I don't even own her, I sold her a very long time ago. One date you gave of a litter right after the other, that's not even possible to have two litters born that close together! Dogs come in heat every 6 months and they are pregnant for 2 months! As for charging more money for full registration papers, when I charge more and the pup goes on full registration it's a pick of the litter puppy (show quality), it's not like I just sell a pet quality puppy for more money on full registration! All breeders charge more for their pick of the litter pups!

I hadn't ever heard of Mega before, NONE of my Goldens have ever had it, so say whatever you like about me not knowing about Mega, I don't see anywhere on my web site where I'm claiming to be the know it all of Golden Retriever lines, that's you accusing me of saying that, but I've never said it! I also do not have any dogs that I'm even breeding out of Rush Hill's Joy to the World, so the Mega didn't come from her! I sold her years ago, the Goldens I'm breeding are from European lines and that's why you don't see them on k9data if your looking under Tropico, because they come from the other countries already named, I'm not "hiding" the dogs as you so claim, they are on k9data under their names.

Anyone who wants to speak with one of the clients who defended me on this web site can email me off of my web site to get any of those people's email addresses, unlike you they have no problem saying who they are, because they are real clients of mine, you only have a problem giving out your identity, because your a Golden Retriever breeder named Pam Saxton. On this web site your initial is P and someone named Pam Saxton changed all my Poodle information off of the Poodlepedigree web site, why did you take down the preliminary OFA information I had on that site??? Why would a Golden Retriever breeder be on a Poodle pedigree web site messing with MY Poodles information??? This web site won't allow me to put email addresses on here or any kind of links, otherwise I would list all those clients of mine email addresses that defended me right on here. BTW why do you check this web site every day??? Why are you so obsessed with me??? Anyone who wants to verify your a Golden Retriever breeder can look on the k9data web site and look you up by the name of one of your dogs: Shilo's All Bets Are Off . They can also verify your dog has off spring on that same web site, that makes you a GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDER!!!!!!! Now that I know who you are I will track down your address and I will include you in the law suit that I have pending against Clairyce Dolson Gaston for slander, defamation of character and libel, I've already hired an attorney to start on a law suit against Clairyce Dolson Gaston! She's the one that started this entire thread and tried to act like she was a ripped off customer and then when I called her on it she admitted who she was!!! Your BOTH Golden Retriever breeders that have committed libel and will be held accountable in a court of law!

Someone who is as wicked and judgmental and medaling as you... I'm sure doesn't lead a very happy life! Go back to the chat rooms and bug the other breeders like you say you do, because I don't have time for you! Have fun checking this web site EVERYDAY like you do, because I won't be back, I'll be following up in a court of law!!! I'm sure you'll have more comments to my comments, which is great for my court case against you!!!

P.S.
The foundation stock of the dogs I am breeding right now come out of my European bloodlines and my Laurell's dog, whom by the way has a pedigree almost identical to your dogs pedigree, so don't go bad mouthing my bloodlines and telling me I have MEGA in them, when you have the same bloodlines, your definitely a real piece of work lady! Anyone can verify what I'm saying, here's the dogs names, anyone can look them up on the k9data web site.

My dog: Laurell's Lookout here I Come
Your dog: Shilo's All Bets Are Off

This was taken off the OFA web site:

OFA policy on Releasing Preliminary Evaluations to the Public Domain.

Frequently, breeders want early knowledge of the hip status on puppies in a given litter. Preliminary hip evaluations may be as valuable to the owner or breeder as the final OFA evaluation. This allows early selection of dogs for use as show/performance/breeding prospects and dogs best suited for pet homes.

The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases.

A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months).

*Corley, EA, et al. Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.
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#10 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Tropico Kennels clinets LOVE their dogs, the only people talking negative are JEALOUS GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDERS!

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

I'll make this as short as I possibly can, since your not worth my time! Your just an angry Golden Retriever breeder like Clairyce Dolson Gaston, that can't stand the fact that I breed Goldens and Goldendoodles!!!

Why did you DENY being a Golden Retriever breeder???

As for the statement you made where you said:

"It is a genetic impossibility for a Goldendoodle to look that much like either one of it's parents."

My response to that is your an idiot!

My Mini Goldendoodle named "Ariel" is the daughter of the Golden Retriever named "Ariel" on the Misbhaven web site.
My Ariel was named after her mother, whom Jodi owns, and her father is Jodi's Toy Poodle named Nemo! Just goes to show how much you know about anything!

As for hybrid vigor let's read what the "experts" have to say, like geneticists & vets, because as far as I'm aware your none of those. See info on hybrid vigor below, anyone can Google this info for the web sites below to come up, as this site won't allow me to post the actual links to any of these web sites.

1. The Canine Diversity Project
2. Purebred Dog Breeds into the Twenty-First Century: Achieving Genetic Health for Our Dogs, by Jeffrey Bragg

3. The Genetic CUL-DE-SAC by Susan Thorpe-Vargas Ph.D., John Cargill MA, MBA, MS, D. Caroline Coile, Ph.D.
4. Kate's Family Pets. About Kate, Kate's a veterinarian working in rural New South Wales, who has an Honors degree in genetics as well as a veterinary degree. Her husband Bruce Watt is also a veterinarian.


As for the Poodles & Goldens that I use for breeding, they have all passed OFA & CERF testing and I have the certificates from OFA & the CERF tests from the eye vet in Tustin as proof.

Eye Care for Animals
3025 Edinger Ave
Tustin, CA 92780
949-733-8271

If you do not mail the actual eye test that the vet passes or fails to CERF, then it will not show on the CERF web site, but that doesn't mean that the dog didn't pass the CERF exam, there are plenty of breeders that keep the actual CERF tests and do not mail them to CERF. Unlike an OFA x-ray, which is passed or failed by vets that work for the OFA, the vet you take your dog too for the CERF exam is the one that passes or fails the dog and then if the owner of the dog wants to they can mail the results to CERF at an additional cost to get a CERF number. The eye exam is done yearly, so I see no reason to pay an additional fee for each dog, every year to get a CERF number, I have the actual CERF test with the vets signature, which can be verified.

As for OFA, preliminary OFA's do not show up on the OFA web site and if you do a preliminary OFA when the dog is almost two, most breeders see no reason to x-ray the dog again at two. The dogs not going to get bad hips or elbows in a month or two and unnecessary exposure to x-rays is not good for the dog. This is why the OFA recommends anesthesia, so you do not have to subject the dog to repeat exposure. I have included information copied right off the OFA web site to this regard (see below). The information about repeat exposure and anesthesia are also on the OFA web site.

I'm only using 3 of my Poodles right now, the rest I have never used! I don't even own Chewy, he was sold to another breeder in Fresno a long time ago.

You have named litters of pups and names of dogs that aren't even mine, just because a dog has "Tropico" in front of it's name doesn't mean I own the dog. Every pup that leaves here goes out with the Tropico prefix in front of their name on their papers and if they are on full registration, then sometimes I stay on the papers as a co-owner. Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose I don't even own her, I sold her a very long time ago. One date you gave of a litter right after the other, that's not even possible to have two litters born that close together! Dogs come in heat every 6 months and they are pregnant for 2 months! As for charging more money for full registration papers, when I charge more and the pup goes on full registration it's a pick of the litter puppy (show quality), it's not like I just sell a pet quality puppy for more money on full registration! All breeders charge more for their pick of the litter pups!

I hadn't ever heard of Mega before, NONE of my Goldens have ever had it, so say whatever you like about me not knowing about Mega, I don't see anywhere on my web site where I'm claiming to be the know it all of Golden Retriever lines, that's you accusing me of saying that, but I've never said it! I also do not have any dogs that I'm even breeding out of Rush Hill's Joy to the World, so the Mega didn't come from her! I sold her years ago, the Goldens I'm breeding are from European lines and that's why you don't see them on k9data if your looking under Tropico, because they come from the other countries already named, I'm not "hiding" the dogs as you so claim, they are on k9data under their names.

Anyone who wants to speak with one of the clients who defended me on this web site can email me off of my web site to get any of those people's email addresses, unlike you they have no problem saying who they are, because they are real clients of mine, you only have a problem giving out your identity, because your a Golden Retriever breeder named Pam Saxton. On this web site your initial is P and someone named Pam Saxton changed all my Poodle information off of the Poodlepedigree web site, why did you take down the preliminary OFA information I had on that site??? Why would a Golden Retriever breeder be on a Poodle pedigree web site messing with MY Poodles information??? This web site won't allow me to put email addresses on here or any kind of links, otherwise I would list all those clients of mine email addresses that defended me right on here. BTW why do you check this web site every day??? Why are you so obsessed with me??? Anyone who wants to verify your a Golden Retriever breeder can look on the k9data web site and look you up by the name of one of your dogs: Shilo's All Bets Are Off . They can also verify your dog has off spring on that same web site, that makes you a GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDER!!!!!!! Now that I know who you are I will track down your address and I will include you in the law suit that I have pending against Clairyce Dolson Gaston for slander, defamation of character and libel, I've already hired an attorney to start on a law suit against Clairyce Dolson Gaston! She's the one that started this entire thread and tried to act like she was a ripped off customer and then when I called her on it she admitted who she was!!! Your BOTH Golden Retriever breeders that have committed libel and will be held accountable in a court of law!

Someone who is as wicked and judgmental and medaling as you... I'm sure doesn't lead a very happy life! Go back to the chat rooms and bug the other breeders like you say you do, because I don't have time for you! Have fun checking this web site EVERYDAY like you do, because I won't be back, I'll be following up in a court of law!!! I'm sure you'll have more comments to my comments, which is great for my court case against you!!!

P.S.
The foundation stock of the dogs I am breeding right now come out of my European bloodlines and my Laurell's dog, whom by the way has a pedigree almost identical to your dogs pedigree, so don't go bad mouthing my bloodlines and telling me I have MEGA in them, when you have the same bloodlines, your definitely a real piece of work lady! Anyone can verify what I'm saying, here's the dogs names, anyone can look them up on the k9data web site.

My dog: Laurell's Lookout here I Come
Your dog: Shilo's All Bets Are Off

This was taken off the OFA web site:

OFA policy on Releasing Preliminary Evaluations to the Public Domain.

Frequently, breeders want early knowledge of the hip status on puppies in a given litter. Preliminary hip evaluations may be as valuable to the owner or breeder as the final OFA evaluation. This allows early selection of dogs for use as show/performance/breeding prospects and dogs best suited for pet homes.

The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases.

A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months).

*Corley, EA, et al. Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.
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#11 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Tropico Kennels clinets LOVE their dogs, the only people talking negative are JEALOUS GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDERS!

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

I'll make this as short as I possibly can, since your not worth my time! Your just an angry Golden Retriever breeder like Clairyce Dolson Gaston, that can't stand the fact that I breed Goldens and Goldendoodles!!!

Why did you DENY being a Golden Retriever breeder???

As for the statement you made where you said:

"It is a genetic impossibility for a Goldendoodle to look that much like either one of it's parents."

My response to that is your an idiot!

My Mini Goldendoodle named "Ariel" is the daughter of the Golden Retriever named "Ariel" on the Misbhaven web site.
My Ariel was named after her mother, whom Jodi owns, and her father is Jodi's Toy Poodle named Nemo! Just goes to show how much you know about anything!

As for hybrid vigor let's read what the "experts" have to say, like geneticists & vets, because as far as I'm aware your none of those. See info on hybrid vigor below, anyone can Google this info for the web sites below to come up, as this site won't allow me to post the actual links to any of these web sites.

1. The Canine Diversity Project
2. Purebred Dog Breeds into the Twenty-First Century: Achieving Genetic Health for Our Dogs, by Jeffrey Bragg

3. The Genetic CUL-DE-SAC by Susan Thorpe-Vargas Ph.D., John Cargill MA, MBA, MS, D. Caroline Coile, Ph.D.
4. Kate's Family Pets. About Kate, Kate's a veterinarian working in rural New South Wales, who has an Honors degree in genetics as well as a veterinary degree. Her husband Bruce Watt is also a veterinarian.


As for the Poodles & Goldens that I use for breeding, they have all passed OFA & CERF testing and I have the certificates from OFA & the CERF tests from the eye vet in Tustin as proof.

Eye Care for Animals
3025 Edinger Ave
Tustin, CA 92780
949-733-8271

If you do not mail the actual eye test that the vet passes or fails to CERF, then it will not show on the CERF web site, but that doesn't mean that the dog didn't pass the CERF exam, there are plenty of breeders that keep the actual CERF tests and do not mail them to CERF. Unlike an OFA x-ray, which is passed or failed by vets that work for the OFA, the vet you take your dog too for the CERF exam is the one that passes or fails the dog and then if the owner of the dog wants to they can mail the results to CERF at an additional cost to get a CERF number. The eye exam is done yearly, so I see no reason to pay an additional fee for each dog, every year to get a CERF number, I have the actual CERF test with the vets signature, which can be verified.

As for OFA, preliminary OFA's do not show up on the OFA web site and if you do a preliminary OFA when the dog is almost two, most breeders see no reason to x-ray the dog again at two. The dogs not going to get bad hips or elbows in a month or two and unnecessary exposure to x-rays is not good for the dog. This is why the OFA recommends anesthesia, so you do not have to subject the dog to repeat exposure. I have included information copied right off the OFA web site to this regard (see below). The information about repeat exposure and anesthesia are also on the OFA web site.

I'm only using 3 of my Poodles right now, the rest I have never used! I don't even own Chewy, he was sold to another breeder in Fresno a long time ago.

You have named litters of pups and names of dogs that aren't even mine, just because a dog has "Tropico" in front of it's name doesn't mean I own the dog. Every pup that leaves here goes out with the Tropico prefix in front of their name on their papers and if they are on full registration, then sometimes I stay on the papers as a co-owner. Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose I don't even own her, I sold her a very long time ago. One date you gave of a litter right after the other, that's not even possible to have two litters born that close together! Dogs come in heat every 6 months and they are pregnant for 2 months! As for charging more money for full registration papers, when I charge more and the pup goes on full registration it's a pick of the litter puppy (show quality), it's not like I just sell a pet quality puppy for more money on full registration! All breeders charge more for their pick of the litter pups!

I hadn't ever heard of Mega before, NONE of my Goldens have ever had it, so say whatever you like about me not knowing about Mega, I don't see anywhere on my web site where I'm claiming to be the know it all of Golden Retriever lines, that's you accusing me of saying that, but I've never said it! I also do not have any dogs that I'm even breeding out of Rush Hill's Joy to the World, so the Mega didn't come from her! I sold her years ago, the Goldens I'm breeding are from European lines and that's why you don't see them on k9data if your looking under Tropico, because they come from the other countries already named, I'm not "hiding" the dogs as you so claim, they are on k9data under their names.

Anyone who wants to speak with one of the clients who defended me on this web site can email me off of my web site to get any of those people's email addresses, unlike you they have no problem saying who they are, because they are real clients of mine, you only have a problem giving out your identity, because your a Golden Retriever breeder named Pam Saxton. On this web site your initial is P and someone named Pam Saxton changed all my Poodle information off of the Poodlepedigree web site, why did you take down the preliminary OFA information I had on that site??? Why would a Golden Retriever breeder be on a Poodle pedigree web site messing with MY Poodles information??? This web site won't allow me to put email addresses on here or any kind of links, otherwise I would list all those clients of mine email addresses that defended me right on here. BTW why do you check this web site every day??? Why are you so obsessed with me??? Anyone who wants to verify your a Golden Retriever breeder can look on the k9data web site and look you up by the name of one of your dogs: Shilo's All Bets Are Off . They can also verify your dog has off spring on that same web site, that makes you a GOLDEN RETRIEVER BREEDER!!!!!!! Now that I know who you are I will track down your address and I will include you in the law suit that I have pending against Clairyce Dolson Gaston for slander, defamation of character and libel, I've already hired an attorney to start on a law suit against Clairyce Dolson Gaston! She's the one that started this entire thread and tried to act like she was a ripped off customer and then when I called her on it she admitted who she was!!! Your BOTH Golden Retriever breeders that have committed libel and will be held accountable in a court of law!

Someone who is as wicked and judgmental and medaling as you... I'm sure doesn't lead a very happy life! Go back to the chat rooms and bug the other breeders like you say you do, because I don't have time for you! Have fun checking this web site EVERYDAY like you do, because I won't be back, I'll be following up in a court of law!!! I'm sure you'll have more comments to my comments, which is great for my court case against you!!!

P.S.
The foundation stock of the dogs I am breeding right now come out of my European bloodlines and my Laurell's dog, whom by the way has a pedigree almost identical to your dogs pedigree, so don't go bad mouthing my bloodlines and telling me I have MEGA in them, when you have the same bloodlines, your definitely a real piece of work lady! Anyone can verify what I'm saying, here's the dogs names, anyone can look them up on the k9data web site.

My dog: Laurell's Lookout here I Come
Your dog: Shilo's All Bets Are Off

This was taken off the OFA web site:

OFA policy on Releasing Preliminary Evaluations to the Public Domain.

Frequently, breeders want early knowledge of the hip status on puppies in a given litter. Preliminary hip evaluations may be as valuable to the owner or breeder as the final OFA evaluation. This allows early selection of dogs for use as show/performance/breeding prospects and dogs best suited for pet homes.

The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases.

A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months).

*Corley, EA, et al. Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.
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#12 Consumer Comment

To Lisa:

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

In response to your request for information about Mega, do your own research and figure it out for yourself. The sad thing is you claim to be knowledgeable about Goldens but I know more about your bitch's genetic history than you do. Now I'm curious to know if you know the genetic history behind some of your foundation bitches.

In response to your assertion that I'm a breeder, you're wrong, simple as that. I don't have to be a breeder to know what I know about Goldens. I've had them for 23 years and I continually educate myself about them and other breeds as well.

I am active in the breed club and I show, do obedience and run my dogs in hunt tests. In any case, I have no reason to defend myself against you, I've done nothing wrong. I've simply refuted your statements and posted information that shows you for what you really are, an irresponsible breeder.

You breed Goldendoodles from parents with few, if any health clearances. You spout the theory of hybrid vigor but you neglect to point out that hybrid vigor diminishes in succeeding generations. You also forget to list another important point, that hybrid vigor usually occurs between different SPECIES of animals, not different breeds so there is a possibility that it does not even EXIST in canines.

You claim on your website that the puppies receive the best traits of both parents, a claim that is patently false. In any breeding, the puppies can receive the best, the worst, or a combination of both types of traits from the parents, there is absolutely no way to select which traits are passed down.

On your list of Goldendoodle health problems, you list SAS as a "minor" genetic problem when in reality, it is a serious and potentially deadly disease. You neglect to list PRA, a potentially blinding eye disease in Poodles.

You also neglect to mention epilepsy, thyroid disease, patellar luxation, and Sebaceous Adenitis, diseases that can occur in both the Golden and the Poodle. You claim here to have no knowledge of Megaesophagus, another major genetic and potentially deadly disorder in Goldens.

You are not a member of the Golden Retriever Club of America or the Poodle Club of America, the National clubs of your breeds and you never will be. Both of them have issued statements condemning the breeding and questionable marketing practices of mixed-breed dogs like Goldendoodles.

You have bred bitches as young as 9 months of age and bitches/dogs with few or none of the desired health clearances.

You "sell" full registrations if people want to pay for them, regardless of whether or not the puppy is of breeding/show quality. A responsible breeder sends pet puppies out on limited registrations with spay/neuter contracts. They don't give people the option of making their pets into show/breeding quality simply because they have the $$$

You claim on your website that "A responsible breeder does not breed dogs with "severe faults" yet you breed undersize Golden bitches (a disqualifying fault) to create your "mini-Goldendoodles.

You've bred in excess of 8 litters over a period of 5 months with promises of more to come.

All of the information that I have ever posted on this site is verifiable through the American Kennel Club, the k9data site, the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, the Canine Eye Registration Foundation and the GRCA and PCA websites.

To respond to your ludicrous assertion that I have "a problem with you in particular", try again. Why don't you have a look at the TNT labrador threads? I'm "picking on" them too because their breeding ethics are as poor as yours are and they don't even have Goldens...

I've spent enough time on this. I'm sure that you will come back with another diatribe that completely ignores the important points, like why you are breeding bitches with disqualifying faults, and focuses instead on trivial matters like how I'm picking on you.

So I'll end with this:

To anyone wishing to get a Golden Retriever puppy from a reputable, responsible breeder, please visit the Golden Retriever Club of America web site. There is a ton of information on things to look for in a responsible/reputable breeder and breeder referral information as well.
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#13 REBUTTAL Owner of company

To the breeder in Colorado that won't give out her identity

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

What are you talking about? What dogs am I listing with fake names and where are these dogs supposedly listed? I do not have any dogs listed anywhere with a fake name! That doesn't even make any sense, and all my dogs do have AKC numbers! I'd also like to know what dog in my line is known for having Megaesophagus, because I had never even heard of it before, let alone known of any dog in my lines with it, so tell me the name and AKC number of this dog, so that I can contact the dogs owner and verify this information, or is this just one more thing to ad to your list of things you've made up???

Look crazy lady in Colorado, there are dogs out there with the "Tropico" prefix that do not belong to me, I might even remain as a co-owner and or owner on their AKC papers, but it doesn't mean that I own them all, or that I'm the one that's breeding all the dogs that have Tropico in front of their names! Many of the dogs on k9data are not even my dogs!

As far as your comment about my Poodles, they are CERF, you know very well you do not have to mail in the test to CERF and there are plenty of good breeders that never mail it in! Chewy was sold a long time ago and Puffy & Snowy & Patrick I haven't even bred yet. However I do not feel the need to come on here and defend myself every time you twist things around and make things up about me, why should I, anyone interested in a dog from me can ask me whatever questions they have themselves. Plus it's obvious to everyone that your just another Golden Retriever breeder!

I'm not going to bother responding to "all" of your idiotic threads, you obviously have no life what so ever, you keep track of this website and you comment to everyone that says they had a good experience with me, your a real nut case and everyone who reads your threads emails me to tell me what they think about you, even strangers have emailed me about you, they all think your totally wacked out! You are a Golden Retriever Breeder and it's so obvious to everyone that reads what you write! You won't even give out your name (maybe your actually Clariyce, know one would know if you were her using a fake location), you hide behind email and websites like this one, where you can hide your identity, what does that say about you, your just afraid to expose your true identity, if you did then people would be looking up things about you that they could talk about on this website and you know you couldn't have that, you want to judge everyone else, but you don't want anyone to know who you are, as you would say...I wonder why?

I have yet to see even one person come on here and say they bought a dog from me and had a bad experience, all I see is "you" on here slandering me, obviously I'm competition for you, because why aren't you out there slandering all the USDA breeders that sell to pet stores, it's obvious you have a problem with me in particular! You can deny your a breeder all you want to, but how can any of us reading your threads check that information out, when you won't even say who you are, you can say your not a breeder until your blue in the face, but it doesn't mean it's the truth! Isn't it odd your so interested in me, yet I never sold you a dog and I've never sold anyone you know a dog, but yet you keep mentioning all these unhappy clients of mine, where are they all??? I only see my clients coming on here and defending me! Your the only one judging me, your twisting things around and making up things about me, why won't you tell me and the rest of us reading what you write who you are, so that we can look up all your information! This web site is supposed to be for consumers that were ripped off, I don't even know you, let alone have I ever ripped you off, so get a life lady!

One last thing your WRONG about licensing, it is a misdemeanor to a felony to be selling puppies or dogs without a Seller's Permit, if you sell more than one puppy or dog in a calendar year you are required to have a permit, otherwise it's a misdemeanor to a felony (depending how many you sold determines if it's a misdemeanor or a felony, I believe if it's more than 3 then it's a felony) and anyone who wants to verify can call the SBOE, here's the phone number to the Ventura office: 805-677-2700, I don't have the 800 number, but there is one and you can call information to get it. Your buddy Clairyce is going to owe years of back due sales tax, penalties, and interest, not to mention she might go to jail too! Every state that has sales tax requires a Seller's Permit (including CO) and there are no exceptions, you do not have to have a business, all you have to do is sell more than one puppy or dog in a calendar year to be required to have one!
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#14 Consumer Comment

"Rare" colors / Status symbols/Tropico breeding ethics...

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

You stated in one of your other posts that "All breeders whether they are "recommended" or not charge more for highly desirable colors"

You're wrong...only the breeders who are looking to make a buck off of their dogs do this. I have a friend, very well respected in Goldens, who has very dark colored dogs, some people might consider them to be a "rare" color as well. She charges no more for these dogs than she does for her medium gold dogs. Canadian Golden breeders FREQUENTLY have light colored pups because their dogs are more closely related to the English lines. They don't sell them for more because of that.

The people who are selling "rare whites", "alpine whites", "nordic goldens", "english cremes", or whatever cute name they use to describe them, are exploiting the breed to make a profit.

Again, you are right in your comments about people treating dogs as a commodity but that doesn't excuse the people who are breeding to FILL that niche, does it?

As far as doing research on a breeder, there are tools out there to verify the information that a breeder gives you. The Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and Canine Eye Registration Foundation are both excellent ways to check information. Golden Retrievers have an online database called k9data where people can enter pedigree/genetic/health information.

There's a reason that Lisa doesn't post her Goldens on her website - she doesn't want people to be able to see her breeding practices and that she's bred dogs without clearances.

Here's a few:

Tropico's Jennifer Lopez
AKC Reg SN91278701 - born 4/15/2002:
No clearances listed on OFFA or CERF
litter born 09/19/2003 - means this female was bred at 15 months old with no clearances.

Gold-Rush Tropico's Rose
AKC Reg SN45924802 - dob 06/28/1997 - OFA Hips/No CERF
1st litter - 05/17/1998 - bitch was bred at 9 months old!
2nd litter - 11/12/1998 - bitch was bred AGAIN just after first litter - 15 mos old.
3rd litter - 06/05/2000
4th litter - 09/07/2000 - 3 MONTHS LATER - means female was bred while she still had a 4 week old litter!
5th litter - 10/05/2001
6th litter - 04/15/2002 - bred when 5th litter was 4 months old.
6 litters in 5 years...

Tropico's Da Ali G Show
AKC reg SN92147108 - dob 08/08/2002
No OFA/CERF clearances
Litter born 11/21/2003 - bred when she was 13 months old.

All of this information is verifiable with the AKC, OFA, CERF, and k9data sites.

Those are just a few of the ones I could find, there is no way of knowing how many others there are. Now Lisa has taken to listing her dogs in the database under false names with no AKC numbers so that it is very difficult to research her lines. I wonder why?
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#15 Consumer Comment

Response to P in colorado

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I made my comments because unfortunately it is the cold hard truth. Many pet owners that purchase or rescue dogs, carry them in purses(absolutely stupid) or leave them tied in the back yard with out proper exercise and training, feed them grocery store dog food and don't care that its a living, breathing creature. Unfortunately it is a status symbol. As for Lisa, I don't think that everyone who has purchased a dog from her has had issues. You know what they say about the squeaky wheel. The only thing that kept me from purchasing another dog from her was the significant increase in price. Frankly, I do not think that $1500 for a dog no matter who the breeder is should be supported. The bottom line is education and responsibility. All breeders should be checked out with a fine tooth comb and the clearance's verified. I completely support that. I was fairly thorough with my dogs history. The only problem I see, is if the breeder lies. That, we have no control over other than refusal to support their business. I haven't had that experience with her (that I know of yet). As for the people who originally started this thread, I hope they didn't buy a dog. Maybe a gold fish would be better. Happy New Year.
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#16 Consumer Comment

Response to P in colorado

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I made my comments because unfortunately it is the cold hard truth. Many pet owners that purchase or rescue dogs, carry them in purses(absolutely stupid) or leave them tied in the back yard with out proper exercise and training, feed them grocery store dog food and don't care that its a living, breathing creature. Unfortunately it is a status symbol. As for Lisa, I don't think that everyone who has purchased a dog from her has had issues. You know what they say about the squeaky wheel. The only thing that kept me from purchasing another dog from her was the significant increase in price. Frankly, I do not think that $1500 for a dog no matter who the breeder is should be supported. The bottom line is education and responsibility. All breeders should be checked out with a fine tooth comb and the clearance's verified. I completely support that. I was fairly thorough with my dogs history. The only problem I see, is if the breeder lies. That, we have no control over other than refusal to support their business. I haven't had that experience with her (that I know of yet). As for the people who originally started this thread, I hope they didn't buy a dog. Maybe a gold fish would be better. Happy New Year.
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#17 Consumer Comment

Response to P in colorado

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I made my comments because unfortunately it is the cold hard truth. Many pet owners that purchase or rescue dogs, carry them in purses(absolutely stupid) or leave them tied in the back yard with out proper exercise and training, feed them grocery store dog food and don't care that its a living, breathing creature. Unfortunately it is a status symbol. As for Lisa, I don't think that everyone who has purchased a dog from her has had issues. You know what they say about the squeaky wheel. The only thing that kept me from purchasing another dog from her was the significant increase in price. Frankly, I do not think that $1500 for a dog no matter who the breeder is should be supported. The bottom line is education and responsibility. All breeders should be checked out with a fine tooth comb and the clearance's verified. I completely support that. I was fairly thorough with my dogs history. The only problem I see, is if the breeder lies. That, we have no control over other than refusal to support their business. I haven't had that experience with her (that I know of yet). As for the people who originally started this thread, I hope they didn't buy a dog. Maybe a gold fish would be better. Happy New Year.
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#18 Consumer Comment

Response to P in colorado

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I made my comments because unfortunately it is the cold hard truth. Many pet owners that purchase or rescue dogs, carry them in purses(absolutely stupid) or leave them tied in the back yard with out proper exercise and training, feed them grocery store dog food and don't care that its a living, breathing creature. Unfortunately it is a status symbol. As for Lisa, I don't think that everyone who has purchased a dog from her has had issues. You know what they say about the squeaky wheel. The only thing that kept me from purchasing another dog from her was the significant increase in price. Frankly, I do not think that $1500 for a dog no matter who the breeder is should be supported. The bottom line is education and responsibility. All breeders should be checked out with a fine tooth comb and the clearance's verified. I completely support that. I was fairly thorough with my dogs history. The only problem I see, is if the breeder lies. That, we have no control over other than refusal to support their business. I haven't had that experience with her (that I know of yet). As for the people who originally started this thread, I hope they didn't buy a dog. Maybe a gold fish would be better. Happy New Year.
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#19 Consumer Comment

Stephanie...

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

You're right, we live in a free country where people can buy whatever they want. However, a dog is a living, breathing animal, not a status symbol and definitely not a consumable good like those products you listed. Lisa makes a living off of breeding Golden Retrievers (not rare English creams, English whites, whatever she wants to call them) for people to use to be "better than the Joneses". She caters specifically to people's vanity by calling them "rare" or "white".

The same goes for the Goldendoodles. They aren't better than any other breed of dog, just different. She breeds them for the money they bring in, not for the love of the dogs. If she truly cared, she would be checking her breeding dogs for hereditary diseases, she's not.

And you're right in another part of your post, it does sound callous for you to compare a dog to a pair of jeans or sandals. A pair of designer jeans or sandals cater to your ego and when they get old, you throw them away. Since I can tell that's not the way you feel about your Golden, why would you even make that comparison?

I'm glad you got a nice dog and I'm happy that he's brought you such joy but that doesn't diminish the pain that others have gone through when dealing with Lisa. It also doesn't diminish the fact that her breeding ethics are questionable at best.
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#20 Consumer Comment

Tropico Kennels

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I have an incredible 8yr old golden purchased from Lisa in Nov of 1998. I did my research, asked my questions and never looked back. Everyone has a responsibility when they are making a life changing decision (pets and kids, and I see many more people who shouldn't be allowed to have either). There are sooo many dogs in rescue's and shelters because people make impulsive decisions. Shame on the people who filed the report for not being more responsible. Hopefully they did not purchase or adopt a pet. And for Lisa, my experience was awesome with you, you helped me at a time when my world was sad. And you gave me a discount. My golden is the most adored, well behaved, beautiful golden I have layed eyes on. Thank you. But, as a breeder, you should have refused sale of coco after realizing how unprepared and irresponsible his future owners were.

In response to Lisa's wording on her website, I agree that the cream golden is rare in the US. All breeders whether they are "recommended" or not charge more for highly desirable colors. And as callous as this might sound, it's not different than how we spend our money every day on clothes, food, shoes. Heck, if you want "organic food", it cost 3 times that of normal every day high calorie pesticidal food. Do you buy your keen sandals at payless for 20? Nope we go to REI and pay 90. Do we buy our levi's at the salvation army or 60 bucks at the gap not even to mention citzens or sevens at the inflated price of 150+. That's what we get for living in a capitalist democratic nation. We are free to choose what we want. And it always comes with a cost.
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#21 Consumer Comment

Rebuttal to complaint against Tropico Kenne;s

AUTHOR: Ellen - (U.S.A.)

Without geting involved in the doodle, deposit, designer dog debate, I would just like to state that I am the owner of two excellent dogs from Tropico Kennels. One is a golden retriever and the other is a golden doodle.

Although they are both beautiful, healthy dogs with wonderful temperaments, the doodle is exceptional. He truly exemplifies the best of both breeds, being smart, loving, gentle and seemingly hypoallergenic. After going through rigorous screening and testing, he is now a therapy dog with the People Animal Connection at UCLA Medical Center.

Lisa, at Tropico, was very helpful when I was selecting the dogs. She also delivered them in a timely, professional manner. I would not hesitate to purchase another dog from Tropico, and as a matter of fact, will probably do so in the not so distant future.
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#22 Consumer Comment

The issues are valid...

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

Since my response yesterday didn't get posted, I'll give it another try.

"Your issues with a Golden Retriever breeder also breeding GoldenDoodles should not be an argument"

Why not? People who breed Goldendoodles are looking to cash in on the "designer" dog market, that's all. There are no plans for a Goldendoodle club, Goldendoodle shows, etc.

People who are breeding Goldendoodles are not trying to better the breed, that's an impossible task because of the genetic variations between the two breeds. They are breeding them to feed the "designer" dog market and they are misleading the public in the process.

"Now in terms of "rare" types or colors of retrievers i think most people could understand that usage of the term"

There are 2 definitions for rare, one is unusual, the other is exceptional or extraordinary. Which do you think the general public is thinking when they see "rare" English-type or "white" Goldens? They are not rare, they are a different type or a different color than the public is used to. There is no reason to charge more for them.

"her white golden is an import from Belgium"

Her dog is not white, he's cream. Hold a piece of white copy paper up next to him, I guarantee that there is a color difference.

"Yeah it makes sense that a Golden Retriever organization won't support Tropico because of the fact that they have bred two pure breeds together on purpose"

This should be setting off all sorts of warning bells to you. Why would you support a breeder who is going against the CoE of the parent club of the breed? The GRCA was created to preserve and protect the Golden Retriever breed. They only have the best interests of the breed at heart. With that in mind, why would you think that not having their support would be a good thing?

With all that said, I doubt that you will change your mind unless (God forbid) something happens with your puppy. You certainly aren't going to change my mind, I know too much about that type of breeder, having been in Goldens for 23+ years.

But, I would ask you to consider looking at the GRCA website and read about the Golden Retriever and its history. Perhaps then you will understand why we fight so fiercely to protect them.

Good luck with your puppy,

P

PS if the link is removed, you can do a web search on GRCA and the site info will come up.
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#23 Consumer Comment

In response to Natasha...

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

I'll go through this point by point.

"Your issues with a Golden Retriever breeder also breeding GoldenDoodles should not be an argument"

Why not? The only reason that people are breeding Goldendoodles is to grab a piece of the so-called "designer dogs" market. The claims that they are hypoallergenic, easier to train, etc, are not true. I've worked with several Goldendoodles, the ones I've seen were hyper, messy, destructive, and every one had a different coat type. Because they are first generation mutts, there is no predictability in how they will look or behave. With a purebred, a Golden will act like a Golden, a Poodle will act like a Poodle - a Goldendoodle could inherit EITHER parent's behavior. Goldens have long double coats, Poodles have short curly coats - Goldendoodles can have either or a combination of both.

Goldendoodles are not a "breed", they are mutts. I have no problem with people owning mutts, I have a problem with people charging $2000-$3000 for one and misleading the people buying them.

So, you say that I shouldn't take issue with it and I say I have plenty of reasons to take issue with it.

"They are still breeding wonderful dogs and that should be the bottom line."

No, it shouldn't. They should be responsible enough to not try to mislead the public into buying designer mutts.

"Now in terms of "rare" types or colors of retrievers I think most people could understand that usage of the term."

Rare has 2 definitions: Unusual; uncommon and Excellent; extraordinary.

Which definition do you think most people are using when they talk/hear about "rare" Golden Retrievers? Where they come from or what color they are is not a reason to jack up the price. The only reason for doing that is to play on the public's "need" for something different than their neighbors have. It's "Keeping up with the Joneses", only with a living, breathing animal and it's wrong.

"her white golden is an import from Belgium"

There is no such thing as a white Golden, period. They are still Golden Retrievers, just a light shade of cream. If you think he is white, hold a piece of copy paper up next to him. He's cream...I guarantee it.

Using terms like "white" or "rare" is just another excuse for breeders to charge outrageous amounts of money for a different type of Golden Retriever.

"Yeah it makes sense that a Golden Retriever organization won't support Tropico because of the fact that they have bred two pure breeds together on purpose"

And that doesn't ring any warning bells for you at all? The PARENT club of the Golden Retriever, the club that is dedicated to the best interests of the Golden Retriever, says that Goldendoodles are bad business. I'll say it again - the club that has the best interests of the Golden Retriever breed at heart, the club that was created to protect the Golden Retriever, is against Goldendoodle breeding. The Poodle Club of America and the Labrador Club of America take the same stance because the people breeding "doodles" and "shih poo's" and "puggles" are deliberately misleading the public into thinking that these dogs are something that they are not.

So after all of that if you still want to know why I have a problem with kennels like Tropico, it's because of this:

I love the Golden Retriever breed. I've had them for 23 years. I have raised them, trained them, and shown them successfully in that time. I've run my dogs in hunt tests, obedience trials, and agility. I love them for what they are and I have never seen them as a means to an end, namely profit. Kennels like Tropico that pander to the public's incessant need for "something different" make me ill. Goldens are perfect just the way they are - why mess with that?

Again, I'm glad you got a happy, healthy puppy, that's great. It still doesn't excuse the fact that Tropico Kennels is breeding dogs for profit and not necessarily with the best interests of the breeds involved in mind.
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#24 Consumer Comment

Tropico

AUTHOR: Natasha - (U.S.A.)

Your issues with a Golden Retriever breeder also breeding GoldenDoodles should not be an argument. Yes they do breed Goldendoodles, which I understand from many people is just a total shock to those in the pure bred world of dogs. Get over it. They are still breeding wonderful dogs and that should be the bottom line. Now in terms of "rare" types or colors of retrievers i think most people could understand that usage of the term. Most goldens you see are at least of an apricot shade and tend to be for the most part a dark gold. It is rare because in the U.S we don't see the lighter colored goldens as much. I know of another breeder and her white golden is an import from Belgium so they are more common outside the US, but for most people they are "rare."
So Yeah it makes sense that a Golden Retriever organization won't support Tropico because of the fact that they have bred two pure breeds together on purpose. So don't act like she is evil because of that. They do wonderful work with Goldendoodles. If you don't like that they are using pure goldens then thats your opinion and they shouldn't be held accountable because you just don't like it.
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#25 Consumer Comment

Natasha...

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

First, congratulations on your new puppy, I'm glad to hear you got a nice one.

However, I have to take issue with your statement that "She is recomended by multiple clubs and breeders associations". I have yet to see any Golden Retriever club that would recommend someone who breeds Goldendoodles as well as Goldens. The Golden Retriever Club of America has issued a statement against the breeding of Goldendoodles and any reputable club would refuse to refer people to such a breeder.

There are also several things on the Tropico Kennels website that are either misleading or things that are not considered reputable/responsible breeding practices:

1) There is no such thing as a "rare" white Golden Retriever. "Rare" white Goldens are really just light cream colored Goldens. These dogs usually have pedigrees from countries such as Canada, Sweden, or England that prefer the lighter colored dogs. They are not "rare" by any means and any breeder that says they are is misleading people.

2) A reputable/responsible breeder is the one who should be deciding which puppies will go on a full registration vs a limited registration. The purpose of a limited registration is to ensure that dogs with physical/genetic/personality faults are not bred. Giving the new owner a choice about whether or not a dog will go on a limited vs. full registration, and charging more for the full registration, is not a reputable/responsible practice.

3) Having the stud dog on the premises is not necessarily a good thing. When trying to breed better dogs, a stud dog should be chosen based on how his traits compliment the females traits. It is very rare that one dog is a perfect fit for every female in one breeders home.

So, given this and other information that I did not include here, I would say that it isn't likely that a reputable kennel or breed club would recommend Tropico Kennels. My guess is that you are speaking of the multiple puppy buying websites all over the internet that list Tropico Kennels. All that means is that Tropico Kennels has paid to be included in those listings - it isn't an endorsement of them or their breeding practices.
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#26 Consumer Comment

Natasha...

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

First, congratulations on your new puppy, I'm glad to hear you got a nice one.

However, I have to take issue with your statement that "She is recomended by multiple clubs and breeders associations". I have yet to see any Golden Retriever club that would recommend someone who breeds Goldendoodles as well as Goldens. The Golden Retriever Club of America has issued a statement against the breeding of Goldendoodles and any reputable club would refuse to refer people to such a breeder.

There are also several things on the Tropico Kennels website that are either misleading or things that are not considered reputable/responsible breeding practices:

1) There is no such thing as a "rare" white Golden Retriever. "Rare" white Goldens are really just light cream colored Goldens. These dogs usually have pedigrees from countries such as Canada, Sweden, or England that prefer the lighter colored dogs. They are not "rare" by any means and any breeder that says they are is misleading people.

2) A reputable/responsible breeder is the one who should be deciding which puppies will go on a full registration vs a limited registration. The purpose of a limited registration is to ensure that dogs with physical/genetic/personality faults are not bred. Giving the new owner a choice about whether or not a dog will go on a limited vs. full registration, and charging more for the full registration, is not a reputable/responsible practice.

3) Having the stud dog on the premises is not necessarily a good thing. When trying to breed better dogs, a stud dog should be chosen based on how his traits compliment the females traits. It is very rare that one dog is a perfect fit for every female in one breeders home.

So, given this and other information that I did not include here, I would say that it isn't likely that a reputable kennel or breed club would recommend Tropico Kennels. My guess is that you are speaking of the multiple puppy buying websites all over the internet that list Tropico Kennels. All that means is that Tropico Kennels has paid to be included in those listings - it isn't an endorsement of them or their breeding practices.
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#27 Consumer Comment

Natasha...

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

First, congratulations on your new puppy, I'm glad to hear you got a nice one.

However, I have to take issue with your statement that "She is recomended by multiple clubs and breeders associations". I have yet to see any Golden Retriever club that would recommend someone who breeds Goldendoodles as well as Goldens. The Golden Retriever Club of America has issued a statement against the breeding of Goldendoodles and any reputable club would refuse to refer people to such a breeder.

There are also several things on the Tropico Kennels website that are either misleading or things that are not considered reputable/responsible breeding practices:

1) There is no such thing as a "rare" white Golden Retriever. "Rare" white Goldens are really just light cream colored Goldens. These dogs usually have pedigrees from countries such as Canada, Sweden, or England that prefer the lighter colored dogs. They are not "rare" by any means and any breeder that says they are is misleading people.

2) A reputable/responsible breeder is the one who should be deciding which puppies will go on a full registration vs a limited registration. The purpose of a limited registration is to ensure that dogs with physical/genetic/personality faults are not bred. Giving the new owner a choice about whether or not a dog will go on a limited vs. full registration, and charging more for the full registration, is not a reputable/responsible practice.

3) Having the stud dog on the premises is not necessarily a good thing. When trying to breed better dogs, a stud dog should be chosen based on how his traits compliment the females traits. It is very rare that one dog is a perfect fit for every female in one breeders home.

So, given this and other information that I did not include here, I would say that it isn't likely that a reputable kennel or breed club would recommend Tropico Kennels. My guess is that you are speaking of the multiple puppy buying websites all over the internet that list Tropico Kennels. All that means is that Tropico Kennels has paid to be included in those listings - it isn't an endorsement of them or their breeding practices.
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#28 Consumer Comment

I love my Tropico Puppy

AUTHOR: Natasha - (U.S.A.)

To those who wish to vandalize the reputation of tropico kennels please be aware that there are many people who are extrememly happy with the expierence they had and the dog they received. I have been to the kennel and seen the puppies they are happy healthy and some of the most beautful dogs I have ever seen.

I came to tropico kennels after a very long search and i researched multiple breeders all over the country and just for your knowledge most reputable breeders have a non refundable deposit policy on their pups because if people back out at the last moment they have lost the time to sell the pup to another loving family and must start again.

I came to tropico after my 1 year old dog was killed at the Dog Park by a dog that a couple had gotten from the pound only days before and they had no idea that it was a killer. For that reason many people will not go to shelters or rescues. I am a true animal lover, my family and i would rescue feral cats from the brink of death and nurse them back to health and have them spayed and neutered. I am not some cruel naive person who doesn't know the situation with unwanted dogs. However due to my last interaction with a rescue dog and the heartache it has caused me that is no longer an option.

My tropico puppy is beautful! I took her to the vet the day after i picked her up, they did a full exam and said that she is in perfect health. I also saw both parents on the premesis and they are both happy and healthy.

The owner of this company takes extreme pride in her dogs and does all she can to find them good homes and give them a good start in life.
She is recomended by multiple clubs and breeders associations. She has been extremely helpful to me and I am so thankful that there are people like Lisa and her family that are able to breed beautiful sweet dogs in such a wonderful environment.
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#29 Consumer Comment

I am blown away.......

AUTHOR: Kimberly - (U.S.A.)

Mrs. Barreras

My only question is why you did not adress the fact you committed (well no, had "your friend" commit) a crime? You must have known it is completely illegal to have someone go though someones bank account, or you wouldn't be protecting this persons identity. Just tell the prosecutor you felt "lied to" I'm sure they will understand your actions. Seriously, that is just disgusting behavior. People take note, P from Colorado Springs was right- there are tons of purebred dogs in rescues that need good home. And if your looking for a mutt, there's this wonderful little place called the animal shelter-and they don't even charge $2000 a dog! Look it up.

Proud owner of a dalmador (lookit that, a designer mutt for only $65)
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#30 REBUTTAL Owner of company

In response to Dave or is it Bob?

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

You over night mailed the deposit, because I told you I had other interested parties and I did. Right on my web site it says this time of year early reservations are recommended, x-mas time is a busy time of year and you knew this, that's why you rushed. I was not trying to "create a sense of urgency" as you claim that I was, why won't you take responsibility for your own actions, no one forced you to over night mail a deposit, you did so, because you wanted Coco before someone else could buy him. And isn't it ironic that you would say that, because I want to tell my side of the story in detail, that I'm hiding something, when you are the one who didn't even use your real name on your first posting Dave, or is it Bob? You signed your posting Bob, Palmdale, CA. and then after I called you on it, you signed your next posting Dave, Folsom, Ca.

I think this is pretty black and white, I held Coco for you just as I said I would, even without having your deposit yet, I answered every question you asked politely and in a timely manner, you stop paid your check and so I was upset and had every right to be after holding Coco for you for 10 days, when I could have sold him to someone else during that time, and so yes I informed you of the Ca law for stop payments on checks. You new you were in the wrong and you didn't want to be sued and have to pay a statutory service charge + the face value of your check and mailing fees and that's the reason you reversed the stop payment so quickly. At that point I really did not want to sell you Coco, my gut told me that you were lying about loosing your checks and my gut feelings have always been right in the past. If you were telling the truth then why didn't you inform the latest people that you wrote checks out to, that you had lost your checks and had to stop pay them, even your bank would have advised you to do so. Also your story does not ad up look what you say right here:



This does not sound like you only stop paid your check, because they were lost or stolen. You clearly stated that you started raising questions about the dog right after the check was mailed, and here I was still holding Coco for you even after you had stop paid your check, because I had no idea it was stop paid. Not to mention I had Coco's current owners have his microchip changed to have your information and to over night mail the form to Avid, so that when you got him his microchip would have your information on it. I told them I would pay the fees to covert the information and even the fees to over night mail the form to Avid. Now I have to pay to change the information again.

You say I sent you 6 threatening emails about your bad check, but you failed to mention how you kept emailing me over and over and you were very nasty, I finally had to ask you to cease and desist from emailing me, because it had turned into harassment. I informed you that harassment by email or by phone is a misdemeanor, and not until then did you finally stop emailing me.

As per the Ca Puppy Lemon Law, I am not a "Pet Dealer". Pet Dealers are Brokers and Pet Stores. I would be considered a "Dog Breeder". That is if at the time of sale I had sold, transferred, or given away, all or part of three or more litters or 20 or more dogs during the preceding 12 months that were bred and reared on the premises.


Anyone who wants to read the ENTIRE law, not taken out of context, can go to: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=8954872826+3+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

I had every legal right to take a deposit for Coco and I have every legal right to keep it. You new the deposit was not refundable when you sent it, yet you said "They are keeping our deposit of $300 because they say it is non refundable", you just wanted to try an make us look bad. Bottom line here is that the deposit is not refundable and you agreed to those terms, I have your signature on a signed Deposit Form to prove it, so I did not rip you off, and if you haven't noticed this is a rip off report web site. I'm just wondering how much longer we are going to have to go back and forth over this. So here is my offer to you, I already have your account information off of your check, so it's not like you can use not wanting me to know your account number as an excuse to say no, so mail me a copy of your statement page that shows you stop paid more than one check that day, several checks as you claim you had done, you can white out your balance or any other information you don't want me to see, if you are telling the truth I will refund your deposit back to you and apologize for thinking you were lying, even though I am entitled to keep it and even though you have been extremely nasty to me. If you are not lying then this should not be a problem for you. However if you are lying then you will refuse to do this and make up some excuse why you won't and then I think that should speak for itself.

I on the other hand can supply proof of the Deposit Form and after the 21st when the current owners bring me the receipt, proof of the over night mailing to Avid, for anyone who would like to see them as verification.

Mrs. Barreras
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#31 Consumer Suggestion

Consider a Rescue?

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

Perhaps you should consider contacting a local Golden Retriever Rescue group such as the Golden Retriever Club of Los Angeles: http://www.grcgla.homestead.com/dogs.html
or if that's not close enough to you, try this link for more rescues:
http://www.grwca-nrc.org/Localrescues-California.htm

I guarantee that you will end up paying MUCH less than $2000 and you will have made a donation to a group that is dedicated to saving Goldens, not trying to make a buck off of them.
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#32 Consumer Comment

CA Health and Safety Code

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

First, let me start here by stating that an owner of a company to come on this website and write such a detailed posting looks to me like they have something to hide.

Second, lets get the story straight. We rushed our deposit to Tropico Kennels because of the sene of urgency that they create. After sending the deposit, we had our checkbook either lost or stolen and we did not record their deposit check in our checking ledger. We had mistakenly placed a stop payment order on their check as well as several others. The minute that they went to the bank and found that the check was stopped. Mrs. Barreras went nuts and sent us 6 threatening e-mails. In my opinion any reputable business owner, would have simply called us to find out why the stop payment. They chose to go the other way and completely freak out.

Once that deposit check was originally sent, we started raising questions about the dog like I stated in my previous posting. After having our questions answered we went ahead and called our bank to reverse the stop payment.

Thinking that we were finally done and we would be getting a dog for Christmas. Mrs. Barreras went ahead and took this whole thing another step in the wrong direction. The following is an e-mail that we rec'd from Mrs. Barreras not less than 2 1/2 hours after we called our bank to reverse the stop payment.

From: Tropico Kennels [mailto:tropicokennels@adelphia.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 11:26 AM
To: Augustine
Subject: Re: interest at 10 percent per annum

My very good friend (my best friend since I was 5 years old) works for B of A, so I gave her your account number off of your check and she looked up your account

and she told me that I was the only check that you put a stop payment on, she could get into trouble for doing this, so I will not give you her name or what branch she works at or any other information about her. Yet knowing what you did, you still said very rude things to me as if I was in the wrong.

We do still want to continue with this purchase as it is a Christmas gift for our son but your rude and unprofessional behavior toward me makes me wish that I had not chosen to purchase a dog through you and your company. You can be sure in the future when someone I know is looking for a dog I will be sure to tell them to avoid using your company.

When in fact you are the one who was wrong in your actions, where I did nothing wrong to you to deserve what you did, every question you asked I got you answers to, and I held Coco for you as soon as you gave me the tracking number just as I said I would, and I took his advertisement off of my web site that same day you gave me the tracking number. So I had every right to be extremely upset with you, and then on top of it, instead of you just telling me the truth, you made up an elaborate story of your check book being lost or stolen. So my husband and I do not want you coming to our home, you are not welcome to my home. Why would I want to meet you after the things you have said to me. I will ship you Coco as we previously had planned. The only reason I am still selling you Coco is because xmas is almost here and I rather have him in a home and not having to try to sell him now just days before xmas, when I am so busy, because I have puppies going home for xmas. I could have already sold him by now to someone else, I had other people interested in him, I am more than upset about this entire situation after all of what you have done. But I do not want to deal with selling him right now or after xmas, because I have more puppies leaving for their new homes after xmas as well and I am busy dealing with that, otherwise under any other circumstances I would not be allowing you to buy him. I wanted Coco sold before he even arrived to me, that is why as soon as I found out he was coming back to me I put an ad up for him on my web site that same day, I would have much rather sold him to someone else after all of this, but as I said at this point I am pressed for time now.

Mrs. Barreras

Mrs. Barreras went ahead and asked an employee of our Bank to look into our personal records. This just shows anyone who might take the time to read this post to find out what kind of people you may be dealing with.


I titled this post CA Health and Safety Code because I just found this information:

CALIFORNIA HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
CALIFORNIA CODES HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE SECTION 122125-122220

Section 122125.
(a) This article shall be known and may be cited as the Lockyer-Polanco-Farr Pet Protection Act.
(b) Every pet dealer of dogs and cats shall conform to the provisions of this article. As used in this article, " pet dealer" means a person engaging in the business of selling dogs or cats, or both, at retail, and by virtue of the sales of dogs and cats is required to possess a permit pursuant to Section 6066 of the Revenue and Taxation Code. For purposes of this article, the separate sales of dogs or cats from a single litter shall constitute only one sale under Section 6019 of the Revenue and Taxation Code. This definition does not apply to breeders of dogs regulated pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 122045) nor to any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or other association, that breeds or rears dogs on the premises of the person, firm, partnership, corporation, or other association, that has sold, transferred, or given away fewer than 50 dogs in the preceding year.
(c) For purposes of this article, "purchaser" means a person who purchases a dog or cat from a pet dealer without the intent to resell the animal.
(d) This article shall not apply to publicly operated pounds and humane societies. 122130. Every pet dealer receiving dogs or cats from a common carrier shall transport, or have transported, dogs and cats from the carrier's premises within four hours after receipt of telephone notification by the carrier of the completion of shipment and arrival of the animal at the carrier's point of destination.


Also,
Section 122210.
(a) No dog may be offered for sale by a pet dealer to a purchaser until the dog has been examined by a veterinarian licensed in this state. Each dog shall be examined within five days of receipt of the dog and once every 15 days thereafter while the dog is in the possession or custody of the pet dealer. The pet dealer shall provide any sick dog with proper veterinary care without delay.

This company does not even posses this dog until 12/21/05. So just because Tropico Kennels placed a small ad on their website, does that really entitle them to a $300 deposit?

I guess that $300 really means a lot to them.
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#33 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Tropico Kennels

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

I had a male dog named Coco posted for sale on my web site, Brandy Augustine (& her husband "Dave") sent me a deposit for Coco by over night mail, because she was so worried that someone else might buy him before she could. I told her that I would hold him for her until her deposit arrived and so I did on good faith. On my web site it clearly states our deposit policy, deposits are only refundable for certain reasons. These people who wrote this rip off report about my company are Brandy Augustine and her husband Dave. So why would Dave call himself Bob on his report? They also live in Folsom CA., not in Palmdale. They over night mailed a deposit check to me that they new was not refundable, they even signed and mailed with their deposit check my Deposit Form, which can be seen on my web site and which states our deposit policy right on it, and Brandy even signed it. I am happy to email a scanned copy of that Deposit Form with their signature on it or to fax it to anyone who would like to see it. I held Coco for 10 days and then found out after 10 days that they had stop paid their deposit check. I had to find this out from my bank, they didn't even have the decency to let me know what they had done, because of this my bank charged me a $25 fee. Brandy had asked me a lot of questions about Coco during those 10 days and I had Coco's current owners reply to every question she asked in a very timely manner. There was no reason for Brandy to stop pay her check. When I found out the deposit had been stop paid I forwarded Brandy a copy of California's law for stop paying checks, those are the 6 emails they are referring to, I copied different parts of the law into different emails as I was getting new information off of the Gov. web site. So yes I told her that she needed to rectify the situation, or that I would have to take legal action. I could have sold Coco to someone else during those 10 days I was holding him for Brandy, it is because of people like her that breeders have to make their deposits non refundable. Now they go on this web site and write a report and don't even use their real names or location, they are also misleading the public by the way they are wording what happened, that I am not refunding their deposit, "because now I am saying it is not refundable", when the truth of the matter is that they new all along it was not refundable, that is why they were sneaky and stop paid their check. I think that they changed their minds, because they were worried that Coco had a chewing problem, he does chew his bedding only, his current owners said other than that he does not chew anything else and so he just sleeps in his crate with no bedding. Anyone who is interested, I have a letter that Coco's owner wrote for me about Coco, he was never misrepresented to the Augustine's, I was always up front and honest with them even about Coco chewing his bedding. If they had concerns they should have made sure about them BEFORE just assuming, because to stop pay their check on an assumption is wrong. And they really should have asked all their questions prior to mailing their deposit, not after, they started asking all their questions after sending their deposit. They have wasted my time now for 10 days, Coco could have been sold to one of the other interested parties. As for law suits, there are no law suits pending against myself, my husband, or our company, and we have never lost to any law suits, those are out right lies. Anyone can verify that I am telling the truth by calling the court. What Brandy and her husband DAVE did was very wrong, they should not be writing rip off reports about us, when they are the ones who wronged us, not us them. If they felt they were in the right then why in such a hurry did they take off their stop payment after I shared Ca. law with them. Now they are asking for their deposit back, after I have been holding Coco for them on good faith. Nice people do not do what they did. They even lied to me when I confronted them about the stop payment. They said it was done by mistake and right here on this report they admit they were having second thoughts about their purchase. The people who are returning their dog Coco to me are unable to keep him do to the size of their yard. They are heart broken over it, but want what is best for Coco. He is 1 1/2 years old, has had 3 professional training classes, is fully house broken, crate trained, neutered, current on all vaccinations, and dewormings, and is also microchiped. Dogs like Coco sell for $12,000 on the ABC Golden Retriever web site. The only bad thing he does is chew up his bedding, but like I told the Augustine's, he is already used to sleeping with no bedding, he does not chew up furniture, so just don't give him any bedding, he doesn't chew up people bedding, only doggy pillows that he thinks are fluffy doggy toys, that is what his current owners told me. Coco is a great dog and who ever gets him is going to be very lucky! Your rip off report Brandy and Dave (aka Bob) was written, because you are not very nice people, and so that is how you operate, instead of admitting what you have done wrong, you try to turn it around on the other person.

Author: The owner of Tropico Kennels
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#34 Consumer Comment

Just curious

AUTHOR: Brenda - (U.S.A.)

What kind of dog was it? Also, if you stopped payment on the deposit check, how do they have your money?
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