killing
  • Report: #150301

Complaint Review: University Of Phoenix

Thank You

Read how Ripoff Report saves consumers millions.

  • Submitted: Mon, July 18, 2005
  • Updated: Sun, February 10, 2013

  • Reported By:phoenix Arizona
University Of Phoenix
3157 E Elwood Rd Phoenix, Arizona United States of America

University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona

*General Comment: Another Viewpoint - UOP Worked for Me

*General Comment: Sounds Ok To Me

*General Comment: I am concern about the reports of UOP

*Consumer Comment: UOP is a good school

*Consumer Suggestion: A Common Tale

*General Comment: Basic Questions

*Consumer Comment: Accreditation?

*UPDATE Employee: 'will not wait for you to understand'

*Consumer Comment: Degree and Financial Aid Scammers

*Consumer Comment: Grant info

*Consumer Comment: what do i do?

*Consumer Suggestion: Cut Your Losses

*Consumer Comment: Help me!!

*Consumer Comment: Tired of the rhetoric

*General Comment: Thank You

*General Comment: UOP is not accredited by AACSB. Stated on AACSB website.

*Consumer Comment: Check the value of a University of Phoenix diploma

*Consumer Comment: MY CONCERNS FOR MY FUTURE

*General Comment: Don't continue going to a school that you consider worthless.

*Consumer Comment: UOP

*Consumer Comment: "Hours?"

*General Comment: Don't waste money at a for profit web design degree

*General Comment: soon to be going

*Consumer Comment: Liars

*Consumer Suggestion: Former UOPX Student

*Consumer Comment: Other UOPX Degree Programs?

*Consumer Comment: uhhhhh, NO

*Consumer Comment: Okay Pap who do you work for?

*General Comment: UoP Accreditation

*General Comment: Thoughts and questions for B

*Consumer Comment: RATES

*Consumer Comment: Oh Jesus F***ing Christ!

*Consumer Comment: Quick Question

*Consumer Comment: So....

*UPDATE Employee: An educated comment

*General Comment: Past Student and Happy with my Choice

*Consumer Comment: Depends on what you are looking for

*Consumer Comment: Like some cheese with that whine?

*General Comment: GetEducated.com

*Consumer Comment: Currently Attending trying to leave!

*Consumer Comment: Reality Check

*Consumer Comment: It is a RIP OFF!

*General Comment: Everyone Is Crazy Here

*Consumer Comment: I Fight to Stay Positive Despite Being Ripped Off!

*UPDATE Employee: Overload

*Consumer Comment: Ex-UOP CEO Brian Mueller now caught in same SCAM at Grand Canyon College

*Consumer Comment: ABC News Hammers UOP with undecover report

*Consumer Comment: Hey everyone GUESS WHAT I AM POSTING GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!

*Consumer Comment: And now the banks

*Consumer Comment: UOP & Financial Aid Screwed Me

*Consumer Comment: Cap locked complaint

*Author of original report: I have told anyone I know stay far far away from this school..............if you're enrolled I feel sorry for you because in 4 years your "degree" probably will not be what you think: my UOP hell

*General Comment: TO ALL THE PEOPLE DEFENDING UOP

*Consumer Comment: you are a guy with guts....hats off to you

*Consumer Comment: BRAVO "B"

*Consumer Comment: aacsb

*Consumer Comment: EDUCATION...What is it really?

*Consumer Comment: Ripped off By UOP

*Consumer Comment: Taking your credits with you.

*Consumer Comment: A few questions for B?

*Consumer Comment: What about their Elementary Ed. Bachelor's degree?

*Consumer Comment: Wasting time

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Filing Class Action Please respond>

*Consumer Comment: Thinking about attending to UOP

*Consumer Comment: IF B IS SO BAD

*Consumer Comment: THE SCHOOL SCREWED ME WITH MY Transcripts

*Consumer Suggestion: what can i do??

*Consumer Suggestion: University of Phoenix

*Consumer Comment: B., thanks for educating me about the UoP online.

*Consumer Suggestion: Oh Lord, I was really fearing this...

*Consumer Suggestion: This is the subprime of education

*UPDATE Employee: B is wack - Here's how we enrollment counselors do things...

*Consumer Comment: Current Student

*Consumer Comment: WHERE IS "b" we miss you

*UPDATE Employee: University of Phoenix is not accurately represented

*Consumer Comment: VERY EXPENSIVE

*Consumer Comment: k

*Consumer Comment: I'm Attending This University Now

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Some final notes

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Some final notes

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Some final notes

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Some final notes

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Some thought regarding both sides of this coin

*Consumer Suggestion: Online Learning is not for Everyone - UOP is an Excellent School

*Consumer Comment: Gina, A Typical UOP graduate student.

*Consumer Comment: My Response

*Consumer Comment: UOP Student

*Consumer Comment: Think About It

*UPDATE Employee: Is everyone taking crazy pills!

*Consumer Comment: Message to B..I Love You! I hope you still read the posts

*Consumer Comment: Help

*Consumer Comment: Transfer update

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Where's B Been?

*Consumer Comment: No problems in transferring UOP credit or getting accepted into other graduate programs

*Consumer Comment: AACSB-Accredited universities generally do not accept credit from non-AACSB-Accredited...

*Consumer Comment: A different prospective

*Consumer Comment: Been there Since 2005

*Consumer Comment: AACSB Accreditation

*Consumer Comment: OK.......

*Consumer Comment: Of Course B is Disgruntled

*Consumer Comment: Of Course B is Disgruntled

*Consumer Comment: Of Course B is Disgruntled

*Consumer Comment: Of Course B is Disgruntled

*Consumer Comment: Two Cents

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I see both sides...

*Consumer Comment: Questions for B...please excuse any spelling mistakes.

*Consumer Comment: Questions for B...please excuse any spelling mistakes.

*Consumer Comment: Questions for B...please excuse any spelling mistakes.

*Consumer Suggestion: I currently attend UOP, and have to agree with some points...

*Consumer Comment: B - What About South University?

*Consumer Comment: AVOID THESE SCHOOLS, THEY ARE USELESS

*Consumer Comment: Thanx you!

*Author of original report: What about Kaplan?

*Consumer Comment: What about Kaplan?

*Author of original report: Jennifer

*Consumer Suggestion: So, what now?

*Consumer Comment: Abby don't let the have-nots get the best of you

*Consumer Comment: Thank you B and Everyone

*Author of original report: Thank God I found this site

*Author of original report: Thank God I found this site

*Author of original report: Thank God I found this site

*Author of original report: Thank God I found this site

*Consumer Comment: Thank God I found this site

*Consumer Comment: Education via University of Phoenix

*Consumer Comment: Joke of All Time

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: But B in Phoenix failed to report on the other half of the equation, What do you get for the $?

*Consumer Comment: Tried UOP and was not happy. Student from 2005-2006.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Your information is right on and I am glad to hear what you said, FYI

*Consumer Comment: UOP (Apollo) stock hammered; $277 million dollar class-action loss a crusher!

*Consumer Comment: James did you read the whole thread?

*Author of original report: Who ordered the Kraut?

*Consumer Comment: Questioning B motive.

*Consumer Comment: Thanx B. Great Thread

*Consumer Comment: University Of Phoenix (aka Apollo Group, Aka AmwayU) UOP Taxpayer/Securities Fraud, Chicago Cops nail UOP in class-action suit Phoenix AZ

*Consumer Comment: I knew this place was stealing my grant money....

*Consumer Comment: Thanx B

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Regis

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Regis

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Regis

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Regis

*Consumer Comment: "B", How does Regis compare to UOP or the others that you do like?

*Consumer Comment: HELP!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rocco Round 4

*Consumer Suggestion: Might as well give my last 2 cents

*Author of original report: Response 3: Rockymasonicaccountant

*Consumer Suggestion: Um ur not considered successful in my opinion

*Author of original report: RE: DIVA327

*Author of original report: Response 2: Rockymasonicaccountant

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: No Info Verified

*Consumer Suggestion: B...

*Author of original report: To: Rockymasonicaccountant

*Consumer Suggestion: What is UOP's career placement rate?

*Consumer Comment: Former Student of WIU, AXIA, and now University of Phoenix!

*Consumer Comment: Current Student

*Author of original report: Response to Current Student in Wisconsin

*Consumer Comment: A good way to tell if it is an "Accredited" institution

*Consumer Comment: A good way to tell if it is an "Accredited" institution

*Consumer Comment: A good way to tell if it is an "Accredited" institution

*Consumer Comment: You are Just Bitter

*Author of original report: Response to your Question

*Consumer Comment: UoP -- I'm Out

*Consumer Comment: Question for you B

*Author of original report: Unhappy People?

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: There will always be unhappy people

*Consumer Comment: Every College has serious problems

*Consumer Comment: I LOVE The University of Phoenix - and NO, it is NOT a rubberstamp education!

*Author of original report: g-man

*Consumer Comment: Shocking news 'B'! need information.

*Consumer Comment: Thanx to B!

*Author of original report: Anon

*Consumer Comment: STOP ATTENDING ALL THESE JUNK ON LINE SCHOOLS AND YOUR PROBLEMS WILL BE SOLVED

*UPDATE Employee: Keystone Mercy recommends University of Phoenix for their employees and eligible for their tuition reimbursement plan.

*Consumer Comment: Wow, now there's cynicism for ya!

*Author of original report: Consumer Onus

*Author of original report: Consumer Onus

*Author of original report: Consumer Onus

*Author of original report: Consumer Onus

*Consumer Comment: response to B

*Author of original report: To UOP Grad

*Consumer Comment: UOP Grad, good experience

*Consumer Comment: (Applause....) Awesome B....

*Author of original report: Since you asked for it

*UPDATE Employee: Thanks for informing me that I am a hopeless, unethical, stupid loser

*Consumer Comment: Thanx B

*Author of original report: Rick

*Consumer Comment: Transfering from UOP to NEU

*Consumer Comment: Thanks to the author

*Author of original report: Accreditation

*Consumer Comment: Accreditation?

*Consumer Comment: For goodness sake Donald,

*UPDATE Employee: To Nixxon

*Author of original report: Fasttrack? Maybe, but to where?

*Consumer Comment: I hope this page is still acvite I need HELP!!!!!

*Consumer Comment: UoP offerst a great, fast and convenient solution

*Consumer Comment: What were your expectations?

*Consumer Comment: Ron....

*Consumer Comment: You can understand why....

*Consumer Suggestion: Accredidation & options

*Author of original report: Ronald

*Consumer Comment: Is it really worth it?

*Author of original report: GINA...

*Consumer Suggestion: I have an Idea

*Consumer Comment: Gina....

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Another Perspective-University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona University Of Phoenix

*Author of original report: Tim

*Consumer Comment: Intel--Canary in mine shaft?

*Consumer Comment: Intel--Canary in mine shaft?

*Consumer Comment: Intel--Canary in mine shaft?

*UPDATE Employee: Tim, the Intel issue

*UPDATE Employee: Tim, the Intel issue

*UPDATE Employee: Tim, the Intel issue

*UPDATE Employee: Tim, the Intel issue

*Consumer Comment: Amanda

*Author of original report: Amanda, do you know the name of this website?

*Consumer Comment: All UoP students are not ignorant

*Author of original report: Billy

*Consumer Comment: B....

*Consumer Comment: New Victim.....

*Author of original report: Billy

*Consumer Comment: A New Victim

*Consumer Comment: For B

*Consumer Comment: How Much is the average pay for a UOP Teacher

*Consumer Comment: How Much is the average pay for a UOP Teacher

*Consumer Comment: How Much is the average pay for a UOP Teacher

*Consumer Comment: How Much is the average pay for a UOP Teacher

*Author of original report: J, you assume much

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Comment to B. of Arizona

*Consumer Comment: NEW YORK TIMES

*Consumer Comment: To Ally in Brooklyn....

*Consumer Comment: WAYNE

*Author of original report: Wayne

*Consumer Comment: FED GRANT STOLEN BY UOP

*Author of original report: Joe

*Consumer Comment: UOP ED. degrees worthless

*Consumer Suggestion: You get what you pay for

*Consumer Suggestion: You get what you pay for

*Consumer Suggestion: You get what you pay for

*Consumer Suggestion: You get what you pay for

*Consumer Comment: MY OPINION DIFFERS

*Consumer Comment: May Be of Assistance

*Consumer Comment: New York Times

*Consumer Comment: Basketball Player Shaq

*Consumer Comment: UOP Debate

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Joshua

*Consumer Comment: My Opinion of UOP

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: UOPs response To New York Times Article

*Consumer Suggestion: Write About it...

*Author of original report: Richard, your claims against NCU are invalid and unfounded

*Consumer Comment: Beware of Northcentral University online PhD programs!!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: please read this in the New York Times

*Consumer Comment: University of Phoenix - UOP

*Consumer Comment: University of Phoenix - UOP

*Author of original report: To Joe

*Consumer Comment: UOP... is it your fualt that you bought the hype?

*Consumer Comment: Intel also dropped

*Consumer Comment: Intel also dropped

*Consumer Comment: Intel also dropped

*Consumer Comment: Intel also dropped

*Consumer Comment: I forgot to mention

*Consumer Comment: I forgot to mention

*Consumer Comment: I forgot to mention

*Consumer Comment: I forgot to mention

*Consumer Comment: Some things to consider

*Consumer Comment: Intel cuts UOP from tuition reimbursement list

*Consumer Comment: Intel cuts UOP from tuition reimbursement list

*Consumer Comment: Intel cuts UOP from tuition reimbursement list

*Consumer Comment: Intel cuts UOP from tuition reimbursement list

*Author of original report: To Jesse

*Consumer Comment: Thanx You B and others: Made my decision easier!

*Consumer Comment: Thanx You B and others: Made my decision easier!

*Consumer Comment: Thanx You B and others: Made my decision easier!

*Author of original report: To Bonnie

*Consumer Comment: transfering

*Consumer Suggestion: From a Consumer/Employers Perspective

*Consumer Comment: Apollo (UOP) v. Enron--a stock collapse perspective

*Consumer Comment: Apollo Stock Option Investigation--Major Deficiencies

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: UOP seems to have bought their way out of the tight spot they were in...

*Author of original report: Tonia

*Consumer Comment: Online Vs. Brick & Mortar

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Tonia

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: B & others I need your help. Was considering UOP!

*Consumer Comment: UOP student

*Author of original report: Feel Felt Found... Dear God

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Northcentral University

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: R.T. You Are Incorrect about Northcentral

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Ex-employee, recent MBA grad

*Author of original report: To Stefin

*Author of original report: To Robert

*Consumer Comment: Question about a different online program

*Consumer Comment: University of Phoenix

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I feel like Neo...

*Consumer Comment: You saved me B!

*Consumer Comment: You saved me B!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: This is Just Funny Because it is Completely True

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I Have to Disagree Here

*Consumer Comment: UoP Not Going Anywhere

*Consumer Comment: Thank you B

*Author of original report: A- It depends on your program level

*Consumer Suggestion: Need Help

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Your quest is almost over B

*Author of original report: The Laws UOP Breaks:

*Consumer Comment: I was having a bad day....

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: U. of Phoenix Loses in U.S. Court

*Consumer Comment: Selling degrees to people that need degrees

*Consumer Suggestion: An Investigator's point of view.

*UPDATE Employee: How's 6-3 working out, B?

*UPDATE Employee: Tech Support

*Consumer Suggestion: University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona

*Author of original report: For Marie,

*Consumer Suggestion: University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona"

*Consumer Suggestion: University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona"

*Consumer Suggestion: Done baiting, now to be constructive

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I understand your points

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I understand your points

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I understand your points

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I understand your points

*Consumer Comment: Glad I did not go to UOP

*Consumer Suggestion: Just a few thoughts...

*Author of original report: Pat, I think a Tic Tac might be in order...

*UPDATE Employee: UOP is Good School!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Frank and Danny

*Consumer Comment: I have alredy started the admissions process. Help.

*Consumer Comment: I have alredy started the admissions process. Help.

*Consumer Comment: I have alredy started the admissions process. Help.

*Consumer Comment: I have alredy started the admissions process. Help.

*Consumer Comment: Steve, that's what you have to show for 30 years???

*Author of original report: MBA/ED?

*Consumer Comment: not a CEO/ CFO, but this you can verify.... sorry, Frank I had to.

*Author of original report: Hard Evidence

*Consumer Comment: Better hope the Hiring Manager hasn't bought Apollo stock!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Steve, let's not pick fights with Frank, this isn't his thread...

*Consumer Comment: Did you read the busnesswire press release Frank?

*Consumer Comment: more Apollo trouble: SEC, US Attorney investigation

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To all ye doubters, what Frank did is actually took them time to probe into the financial scenario at UOP. He nailed it on the head

*Consumer Comment: UOP stock getting hammered

*Consumer Comment: UOP, Yes or No?

*Author of original report: Another for the records...

*UPDATE Employee: This is really rediculous

*Consumer Comment: UoP Madness

*Consumer Comment: Thanks for the Links

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Still not enough

*Consumer Comment: A Good Example of UOP Curriculum

*Consumer Comment: A Good Example of UOP Curriculum

*Consumer Comment: A Good Example of UOP Curriculum

*Consumer Comment: A Good Example of UOP Curriculum

*Consumer Comment: To B

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To Wealth

*Consumer Comment: UOP is a Good School

*Author of original report: M, this is a long one...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: From "M" to "B"

*UPDATE Employee: Response to B.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: not sure I understood your point about the 50% thing fully

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: not sure I understood your point about the 50% thing fully

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: not sure I understood your point about the 50% thing fully

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: not sure I understood your point about the 50% thing fully

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To M and Hasina

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To M and Hasina

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To M and Hasina

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To M and Hasina

*UPDATE Employee: Quit Bashing UOP

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: How is UOP different?

*Consumer Comment: My UoP Experience

*Consumer Comment: My UoP Experience

*Consumer Comment: My UoP Experience

*UPDATE Employee: Late Assignments

*Consumer Comment: UoP is a RIPOFF

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I also worked for UoP Online

*Consumer Comment: To Lloyd - in the process of revamping their MBA program to a new version with an additional accrediting body. Not AACSB but close.

*Consumer Comment: Yeah

*Consumer Suggestion: Look at NCU

*Consumer Comment: I need advice........thank you B! Please give me some advice!

*Consumer Comment: There is Hope

*Consumer Comment: Reply

*Consumer Comment: UOPO is a complete waste of time!

*Consumer Comment: Question for B - Update

*Consumer Comment: Question for B

*Consumer Comment: THANX FOR THE INSIGHTFUL INFO!!

*Consumer Comment: Making Lemondaid...

*Consumer Comment: Making Lemondaid...

*Consumer Comment: Making Lemondaid...

*Consumer Comment: Making Lemondaid...

*Author of original report: Amris

*Author of original report: Amris

*Author of original report: Amris

*Author of original report: Amris

*Consumer Comment: Interesting Argument

*Consumer Suggestion: A degree is a degree

*Consumer Comment: Thanxs, B!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Douglas

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Douglas

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Douglas

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To Bruce

*Consumer Comment: Clarification on Accreditation

*UPDATE Employee: You will not be screwed by asking us for help

*Consumer Comment: Strayer Online

*Consumer Comment: Taken classes at UoP, how to get out?

*Consumer Comment: Taken classes at UoP, how to get out?

*Consumer Comment: Taken classes at UoP, how to get out?

*Consumer Comment: Taken classes at UoP, how to get out?

*UPDATE Employee: You only owe the application fee

*UPDATE Employee: You are not in too deep.

*UPDATE Employee: You are not in too deep.

*Consumer Comment: What do I do now?

*UPDATE Employee: UOP is not ethical

*Consumer Comment: Don't think that Stanford is a for-profit school either...

*Consumer Comment: No I'm not

*Consumer Comment: Stanford is state funded?

*Consumer Comment: Funny Guy

*Consumer Comment: B, you da' man!!!

*Author of original report: One for the records...

*UPDATE Employee: Errors in report prove it worthless

*Consumer Comment: UOP: Sweet and Sour; Consumer Beware!

*Consumer Comment: NCU

*Consumer Suggestion: Northcentral University is in Prescott, Arizona. This school should not be confused with North Central University.

*Consumer Comment: Dream

*Consumer Suggestion: UOP Sucks

*Consumer Comment: North Central University

*Author of original report: Get out, get some persepctive before you say anything Matthias

*UPDATE Employee: B, get a life

*Consumer Comment: Lucky Student

*Author of original report: Yes, there is a difference

*Consumer Comment: Northcentral University, the wave of the future

*Consumer Comment: "B" I have questions, or does anyone else know the answers

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: True but...

*Consumer Comment: "B"...Please stick to your important topic!

*Consumer Comment: UOP - DO NOT USE THE UOP

*Consumer Suggestion: Crazy

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I guess the short bus is now making rounds for UOP...

*Consumer Comment: YOU GOT FIRED AND NOW YOU WANT REVENGE

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: How many UOP Grads does it take to screw in a light bulb?

*Consumer Comment: What Ever B

*Consumer Comment: What Ever B

*Consumer Comment: What Ever B

*Consumer Comment: What Ever B

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I swear you people multiply with water...

*Consumer Comment: Back at you B

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Look before you leap? Try, read before you speak...

*Consumer Comment: Look before you leap !!

*Consumer Comment: Response to B

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Ken, I understand your point and if you were comparing apples to apples I would say you were right.

*Consumer Comment: OK Lets look at this issue in today's society

*Consumer Comment: OK Lets look at this issue in today's society

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Come on M, I expected better

*Consumer Suggestion: B: Yes you smear yourself all over the place

*Author of original report: M Round 3

*Consumer Suggestion: B The Polished Turd Self Relization

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: M: Round Two

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: M: Round Two

*Consumer Suggestion: B You hit the nail on the head

*Author of original report: "M" Dont know who you are but oh well...

*Consumer Suggestion: Perception is Reality

*Consumer Suggestion: Perception is Reality

*Consumer Suggestion: Perception is Reality

*Consumer Suggestion: Perception is Reality

*Consumer Comment: University of Phoenix keeps adding classes to my schedule...

*Consumer Suggestion: To Tom

*Author of original report: Wow Kathy, thanx...

*Consumer Suggestion: From someone who does not hate UOP

*Consumer Comment: Quality of Classes are very poor

*Consumer Comment: Ripped off in Utah by UOP

*Author of original report: University of Phoenix is a good school.

*Consumer Comment: Unfortunate

*Consumer Comment: I just cannot get a better expert opinion

*Consumer Suggestion: Okay everyone here but -B is a little dilusional

*Consumer Suggestion: UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX IS A RIPOFF AND ALFONSO DOESNT KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT!

*Consumer Comment: UOP Voluntarily Withdraws NLNAC Accreditation

*Consumer Comment: UOP Voluntarily Withdraws NLNAC Accreditation

*Consumer Comment: UOP Voluntarily Withdraws NLNAC Accreditation

*Consumer Comment: The problem is with people trying to bring down companies

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To Alfonso: What is it with you people? ..chalk it up to being the act of a disgruntled employee

*Consumer Comment: Sounds like disgruntled employee to me

*Consumer Comment: Sounds like disgruntled employee to me

*Consumer Comment: Sounds like disgruntled employee to me

*Consumer Comment: Sounds like disgruntled employee to me

*Consumer Comment: Why the NCA??

*Consumer Comment: Transfer the Degree, not the Credits

*Consumer Comment: Thank You ripoff report, continue to help others by telling the truth.

*Consumer Comment: Transfer credits. You already have you degree and because UoP is legally accredited they have to accept the degree to get you into the masters program.

*Consumer Comment: Transfer of Credits, Student Loans

*Consumer Comment: I can tell you why...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Barbara, sorry to say you are not alone

*Consumer Suggestion: I have some questions

*Consumer Comment: "B" I have been looking for someone like you all week...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rahul, thx for the link

*Consumer Suggestion: CBS REPORT Web SITE For-Profit College: Costly Lesson

*Consumer Suggestion: Paper Mill

*Consumer Suggestion: Paper Mill

*Consumer Suggestion: Paper Mill

*Author of original report: One more for Pap

*UPDATE Employee: You really hit No Nerve with me, you hit the DisHonesty of your Statements

*Author of original report: To Pap from "B" ..while I may of touched a nerve with you, you are none the less wrong about the organization and your assumptions about me

*Consumer Comment: You want to see their accreditation?

*Consumer Comment: If "B" had a Brain-cell he Might be dangerous

*Author of original report: My Concerns about the University of Phoenix

*Consumer Comment: UOP and B---rad or was it Brian ..Buddy...I warned you not to go work there.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To Jana "easy to lose accreditation", you are simply wrong

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Get out now

*Consumer Comment: A Valued Degree

*Consumer Comment: Are you telling me it will be worth nothing to employers?

*Consumer Comment: Some concerns about your rebuttal

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Let my start by saying that I was an enrollment advisor for University of Phoenix Online, and AXIA/WIU Online under Apollo Group for 3 years. I recently quit from my position as one of their highest paid advisors. Paid on the amount of enrollments I did in 2003. I also completed my MBA/MKT while there.

For all of you in this forum defending this organization, you are simply spewing ignorance and rehashing information provided you by this organization. Please stop, you are not doing any good and I am sorry to say this, but you are wrong. So wrong that it borders on ignorance.

Let defend something for a moment. The company as a whole does contain good people, some of which do try and help and have good intentions. The problem stems directly from one man the CEO, Brain Muller. He has set in motion internal policies that create a hopeless scenario for all within the organization. They either comply, lose money, or are fired. When you start threatening a person's lively hood, they will usually fall in line. This is why so many good people have had to deceive or lie to potential students, and why you see so many reports in this forum.

There are many things that can be addressed here but let's start with some basic things. Accreditation. UOP Online is Accredited by the North Central Association of the Higher Learning Commission (Perdue Shares the same body as do many other schools) However, this really does not mean anything.

Yes, UOP has their programs screened and verified by the HLC, but their accreditation is not reviewed for years. What most people do not realize is that it is extremely hard to loose accreditation once you have it. There is no active monitoring of courses or instructors. Any audits that take place require UOP be given advanced warning.

This means that can basically provide sub-par courses for outrageous prices. Yes, their classes are a joke. If you believe that college is about shooting emails back and forth via Outlook Express and working in "Learning Teams" then you are delusional. Fact: Learning Team arose as a reaction to an audit by the Federal Government on UOP's financial aid usage. They had to require learning teams in order to maintain Title IV funding capacity.

As said before, UOPO is fully accredited, but they do not require the GMAT for the MBA programs. What does this mean? It means that they do not have AACSB Accreditation. Here is more on that: http://www.aacsb.edu/ This is why when I present my MBA to professional organizations, they laugh. Sorry to inform you, but your degree is not as valid as you want it to be.

Next I would like to address the organizations misuse of funds. They have been for many years now, embezzling monies from their employees and Title IV funding.

Let's start with Title IV. As mentioned about, they were abusing access to funding in the late 90's by claiming student living expenses on their report for on campus housing. Hmmmm, online makes that a little hard to validate. They were using this money as venture capital to finance growth and investments. They continue to do so till this day, just in a different way.

First, you must understand the accounting variables that go into a billion dollar company. There is money flying all over the place on their balance sheets. Income, expenditures, investments, etc. It is a fact that UOP has continuously decreased its amount of new enrollments each year since its peak in 2003. This is part of the reason they rolled the UOPX stock back into Apollo group last year. However, the CEO's Brain Muller and Todd Neilson still need to generate shareholder interest to keep the stock high.

Now, if there is a decrease in enrollments as compared to prior years, but the CEO is still claiming huge growth in years to come, how does the company make up for that? By counting scheduled students as enrollments for their report without every actually having those students start.

There is one problem. Smart investors can look at organizations financial statements and tell if they are losing money. So how does UOP make up the money difference in the accounting department? 2 ways. First, it decreases the pay of its employee workforce and (for years) violated AZ and Federal Overtime law by making overtime mandatory but refusing to pay employees overtime wages.

A quick search online will reveal the lawsuit filed by the AZ Dept of Labor last year and the $10 Million settle UOP had to pay. 10 Million? Sounds like a lot right? Not when you consider the amount it saves over the last 20 years by not paying overtime wages. Somewhere in the 100 million mark. Wonder how they were able to grow so rapidly?

Second, accounting is basically money in, vs money out in an organization. When you are dealing with a billion dollar company, it is hard to keep track of every dollar. One might wonder why UOP Online takes so long to distribute Title IV funding to students. They tell you it takes 2 to 3 months, this is a lie.

The money is in the hands of UOP a week or two after you attend your first day of class. Why do they take so long to distribute the funding? Two reason. One is to keep their official default rate down. Considering they lose about 30% of enrollments after the first class, it would look very bad for them if all these students started defaulting one loans they done think they need to pay back because they didn't take a full class.

So it is official UOP policy to hold the funding in accounts until the person has completed the first few weeks of class. This allows them to send the money back if the student does not complete the class without reporting anything to the lender. The student is then in debt to UOP collections and not to the lender. Not to mention, FA doesn't pay for dropped or failed courses. What of the money in the holding tanks for months at a time. Hmmmm. Well, when you have over 100,000 students, 80% of which use FA in the sum of roughly 15K per year, they are basically counting that money as income for the organization even though technically it does not belong to them yet.

What that means is that they can invest monies, gain interest or assets with money that does not belong to them. Sound illegal? Borderline, but impossible to prove through accounting audits.

Questions from the public.

Yes, advisors are trained to lie and manipulate. I did this training myself they call it the AMOPS process. It is a technique used to manipulate leads into buying a product.

Yes, advisors are paid off of the number of enrollments. It's called the Matrix; they changed it in 2004 to look more in line with requirements of the DOE. This led to a record number of pay decreases across the board, a record turn over rate for employees, and a mass exodus of their top advisors.

No, the degree is not looked upon as being high quality. I attended the ground campus with 2 managers from Intel here in AZ and they showed me a memo that went out to their managers stating that they are no longer allowed to hire graduates of the BSIT program at UOP.

No, you will never be cleared by the collections department.

Yes, EAs will tell potential student that student loans do not need to be paid back.

Yes, the CEO once said that he wanted to be the Wal-Mart of education. Obviously without the low pricing.

No, the cost of tuition increase has nothing to do with expenses, it has to do with showing income on the books.

Yes, there is a promotion every month.

Yes, you should select your own lender and choose to have the funds distributed to you, even if that means you have to wait to start and pay for the first class out of pocket.

No the people who defend this place have no clue what they are talking about.

Yes, I know there are probably typos in this so you tards that want to point them out, save your fingers.

If you have any questions post them in here and I will check in and try to answer them.

Peace. Oh yeah, if you want to get to the root of an issue here are the names of the top executives in the organization who promte this shady crap. Brian Muller CEO. Vince Grell VP Enrollment, Aaron Wettstien Director North East, Trish Elliot Director NE WIU, Larry Etherington VP mkting. Brett Romeny Senior EM. Kristin Tursinni Senior EM, Nikki Fossi Director and the most viel manager of them all, Jacob Nevzoroff. The list goes on.

But you can call 1-800-366-9699 and ask to speak with them and they will transfer you. Or you can take their fist name dot their last name and add apollogrp.phx.edu on the end and that should go directly to them. Not really sure on that one though.

B phoenix, Arizona
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/18/2005 09:41 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/University-Of-Phoenix/Phoenix-Arizona-85071/University-Of-Phoenix-Online-Truth-about-UOP-Online-RIPOFF-Phoenix-Arizona-150301. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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#1 General Comment

Another Viewpoint - UOP Worked for Me

AUTHOR: Badoomdoom - crash - ()

I received my Bachelor In Business Administration degree from the University of Phoenix.  I later went on to obtain my MBA at the University of Denver and Master of Science in Health Administration from the University of Colorado at Denver.   My credits from the University of Phoenix were fully transferable to both universities.  That would not have been the case if UOP university was viewed simply as a diploma mill, or did not have adequate accreditation. 

After receiving my MBA at DU I was recruiter and advisor for the MBA and Master of Science in Finance programs for three years.  Recruiting, whether for UOP or DU, or Dartmouth, is a sales job.  If a UOP recruiter is lucky enough to receive a commission for meeting a goal because the school is "for profit" so much the better.  Many of the top universities in the country, including the University of Denver, are private schools and like UOP are "for profit".   

 

I am very familiar with the pros and cons of UOP vs more "traditional" schools.  I believe the comparison is apples to oranges.  UOP has been successful because of supply and demand.  I went to UOP and I'm a satisfied customer and alum.  It worked for me because UOP offered the program I needed at a reasonable cost with more flexible scheduling.  It wasn't Harvard, but then that's not what I was expecting.  At the University of Phoenix you may find there are instructors you don't like, or you may even feel are incompetent.  There will be courses you feel are not relevant, team mates that don't carry their share of the load, assignments you feel are a waste of time, etc, etc.  Take if from me, it is the same at every university, regardless of the ranking, accreditation, or cost of tuition.  

 I obtained a good job after graduation from UOP.  It took a few years but I'm currently a CFO and feel my UOP degree is what got my career started.  I suggest you do your own research with an open mind and do what makes sense for your situation, your schedule, your budget, and your future.  UOP doesn't work for everyone, but it has worked for thousands, including me.  By the way, my son also just graduated with his bachelor' degree in business at UOP.  Good luck

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#2 General Comment

Sounds Ok To Me

AUTHOR: Robbin - ()

 My coworker got her Bachelors Degree for Psychology from UOP, and she is now moving into a new position where we work from MHPP to Therapist because of Bachelors Degree.  Its legit from what I have seen.

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#3 General Comment

I am concern about the reports of UOP

AUTHOR: sunshine - ()

First I am concern about the reports that I am seeing here, I am in the UOP right now, going for my BS  Degree, online, and I have filings that things are not right with this school. How do I know if I should continue or quit? Can someone PLEASE HELP ME!
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#4 Consumer Comment

UOP is a good school

AUTHOR: Mr. S - ()

Despite all the ill-spread gossip, many people are being wrongfully told such things about the University of Phoenix as being a quote "diploma mill" unquote. Personally I'm finishing up my associates in IT Programming, and it has been quite a challenge actually. Sure the first couple classes you go through may seem rather easy, but these classes are to get the students use to how classes are structured, and also as a way to weed out any people who may drop out. They even require you to a month long orientation class period, and usually its during this orientation class that anyone who is going to drop out can, usually without any penalty. If your stupid enough to go through the hell that is called FAFSA and any other financial aid you may apply for, go for a couple classes and decide to drop out, that is YOUR loss, not the University.  And for this disgruntled ex-UOP advisor, I personally asked my advisors if they get paid for per student they enrolled and they laughed and both of them on seperate occassions pretty much told me that is a myth. You shouldn't blame the University of Phoenix for your downfall, if you didn't have such a nasty attitude then you wouldn't have such a hard time finding employment.
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#5 Consumer Suggestion

A Common Tale

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I had the unfortunate experience of sitting in on a job interview with a candidate from a 'for profit' school a few years back. He was rather proud in telling us he had a 4.0 average. The manager asked him why he didn't switch to a real college after his first year to continue his 4.0 performance. A real college would have given him very sizable scholarships not to mention a near guarantee of a Phi Beta Kappa key. His graduate school would have been a full ride if he had graduated with a 4.0 average. The candidate didn't have an answer. Next...
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#6 General Comment

Basic Questions

AUTHOR: Chris - (United States of America)

Hey "B"

I just have a few basic questions. I dont know if you still are actuve on this thread or not, but i read all of the "rebuttals" and what not and thought I would ask you a couple questions. Before my questions I want to go to school for a Bachelors in Business and Finance/Economics. I also work 50 hours a week.

With UOP the degree i would receive it wouldn't be credible with Fortune 500 companies that i would apply for?

If not, what schools in my area would?

Is the "Job Placement" thing any good? I hear its also a scam.

Thats all my real concerns. Your "Rip-off Report" really helped me in my search for higher learning. And your rebuttals are super funny! Anyway, any sort of info would be awesome.

-Chris

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#7 Consumer Comment

Accreditation?

AUTHOR: concernedinamerica - (United States of America)

You do realize that accreditation just means a school meets certain minimum requirements ?  No you should never consider a school that is not regionally accredited, but just because one is, does not mean it is a good school. All the major online universities (Devry, Capella, U of Phoenix, Northcentral, etc.) have regional accreditation...and all of them are regarded as far less than the bottom end state schools. That is simply a fact.  Not to mention they charge horrendous amounts.  Harvard has online grad courses for 2K  a class.. most of these online schools are much more expensive.  Texas Tech, Dakota State, Stanford, University of Oklahoma, University of Nebraska...are all well respected state schools with online programs that are far cheaper than UofPhoenix, Capella, Devry, Northcentral...and all carry more credibility.
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#8 UPDATE Employee

'will not wait for you to understand'

AUTHOR: Liam - (United States of America)

You wrote that "UOP instructors will not wait for you to understand ... etc" ... This might be true generally -- but it might not be the fault (entirely) of the instructors. I can add my own experience as instructor for UOP -- instructors are actually penalized (in the form of harassment and negative evaluations) for giving extra help, such as extending deadlines (even for technical difficulties) or providing extra material. I do believe it goes beyond the instructors -- it's the profit-oriented system of the corporation (aka, "university") which is rotten and deficient.
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#9 Consumer Comment

Degree and Financial Aid Scammers

AUTHOR: Anea - (United States of America)

I started my degree in the Associate of Arts in Sept. 2010. I recently completed the program in June 2012 and graduated successfully. But I am still not working in my career, nor does the school have any job placement programs in effect to help graduates get to work. I left the school over paying what I actually took out in student loans. Not to mention the fact that I had to contact the Department of Education on UOP back in 2011 because they refused to give me my refund after I had completed an entire semester. I was told that they were holding the money that FAFSA had given to me for education purposes saying that they changed my credit hours which is why I could not get the money right away. That was a bunch of bull according to the Dept. of Edu. because once I got someone assigned to my case, the school was obviously in the wrong and I was rewarded my refund within 3 weeks and I got assigned to a new financial adviser. Bottom line, if you are enrolled or thinking about enrolling, run far away from UOP. This school will leave you jobless. I have decided to continue with my Bachelor's degree at Tory University. Troy is about $4,000 cheaper than UOP and they offer real life degree programs that are meaningful in the modern day job market. University of Phoenix did nothing for me but waste my time. Don't let this happen to you. Trust me, I wish I had listened to all of those reviews and got out while I had time.
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#10 Consumer Comment

Grant info

AUTHOR: Daniel - (Virgin Islands (US))

If you have already paid for your classes; but have not started yet, you can call the Government Grants Contact Center at 1-800-518-4726 and speak with a contact representative. Do yourself a favor and tell them that you changed your mind about the school and that you want to enroll in another school of your choice. It's money that you will have to repay, so you do have a choice.
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#11 Consumer Comment

what do i do?

AUTHOR: LyndsayH - (United States of America)

i posted help me!! I start the intro classes monday. i got little over 6 grand in grants and 5 grand in a loan. is there any way i could cancel them? or do i stop now and have to pay all that back??? it was already paid to the school. atleast i think so.... so what do i do???? if i cant cancel the payments and give it back and leave the school can i do the classes that cost the 10 grand and then transfer the credits to an accredited school? or dont you think anyone will take them??
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#12 Consumer Suggestion

Cut Your Losses

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

If you've only been there a semester, bail out. Switch to a community college. Here's a few reasons why:

1) Much cheaper.

2) With a two-year plan you can have a real associates degree that employers will really value.

3) Most 4-year colleges will accept up to 60 transfer credits from community colleges to go toward a BS program. Try that with UOP.

4) No sales hassles and empty promises.

Ever been to a UOP job fair?  Tell us how it went. Probably not real well.
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#13 Consumer Comment

Help me!!

AUTHOR: LyndsayH - (United States of America)

I have just signed up for online classes and now im scared  to start since i read this i did lots of research of benefits of the school and such but didnt really look into the problems with it. so what do i do? continue and start monday for my intro classes or try to back out if thats even possible!!!! help me!!!! 
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#14 Consumer Comment

Tired of the rhetoric

AUTHOR: Hquinn31 - (United States of America)

I'm not here to fight with anyone.  I will say this, when you are about to go to college you must research all your options, weigh them out and see what's best for you.  For me UOP is just right for me.  I did my research beforehand, I knew about their credits.  But I also know that, as a single mother of 2, it's just right for me.  I've gone to other colleges, some better than others, and I've been mislead by all of them.  All colleges and Universities want your money and they will do anything in their power to get you in the door and enrolled in their school.  They do fast talking, jumping topics, showing the school, but you as the student (who is paying for the education) need to step up and ask questions before enrolling.  It's your money remember that.  As for B.... look you're not the only ex-employee who is slamming their old employer.  Check out other reviews of other colleges like ITT or Virginia College and I guarantee there will be ex-employee who's slamming that school. Your original post was in what...2005.  Don't you think that things have changed since you've left there? 

All I'm saying is take responsibility for your own actions.  All I've read is how UOP did this, and it did that, and blah blah blah.  No it didn't.  You did.  You have a choice in the matter, if you don't like then leave.  Stop wasting your money!

Again every school is going to do the exact same thing this one does.  They're like car salesman, fast talking, get you in and get you out as fast as possible.  I've been to 3 colleges so far and they have all done it.  As for the money, I was told upfront how much everything was going to be and how much of federal aid was going to help.  I don't have to worry about cost, but for those who do you either need to make a choice, talk to business to see their views on that particular degree from UOP.  If they don't respect it or acknowledge that it's a real degree then again move on.  You people need to start taking responsibility for your problems take control of your life and do something about it.  That's been our biggest problem in this country is that people would much rather blame someone else rather than themselves.  You created the problem, fix it.  

B..I've worked for many companies that have done me wrong, but you don't see me slamming them because of it.  I'm not saying your disgruntled, but you're riding that fine line.  
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#15 General Comment

Thank You

AUTHOR: Audrey - (United States of America)

Thank you so much for writing this, you probably just changed my life, or the next 8 months or so at least. I am currently a student with UoP, I officially started today and many red flags went up when I realized the instructors have tons of grammatical errors and the work seems that of a middle school level as do the other students writing skills. I'm not a genius but something just didn't feel right so I googled reviews and yours has been the most helpful. Now looking into other schools, Penn State World Campus, and Strayer, Walden, and Capella as you've listed. So glad I caught this early.
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#16 General Comment

UOP is not accredited by AACSB. Stated on AACSB website.

AUTHOR: Ms. Carpenter - (United States of America)

This goes to #11 employee..

AACSB Non-Accredited
Schools

1. University of Phoenix
2. Webster University
3. Keller Graduate School
     of Management
4. Troy State University
5. The University of Texas at Dallas


Also:

2004 the Department of Education alleged that UOPX violated Higher Education Act provisions that
prohibit offering financial incentives to admission representatives, had pressured its recruiters to enroll students. UOPX disputed the findings but paid a $9.8 million fine as part of a settlement where it admitted no wrongdoing and was not required to return any financial aid funds.

Because Phoenix's business programs are not accredited by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB), some companies will not provide tuition reimbursement for employees attending Phoenix

AACSB Accreditation represents the highest standard of achievement for business schools worldwide. Being AACSB-accredited means a business school is able to continuously pass a strict set of standards that ensure quality.

AACSB provides internationally recognized, specialized accreditation for business and accounting programs at the bachelor's, master's, and doctoral level. The AACSB Accreditation Standards challenge post-secondary educators to pursue excellence and continuous improvement throughout their business programs. AACSB Accreditation is known, worldwide, as the longest standing, most recognized form of specialized/professional accreditation an institution and its business programs can earn.

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#17 Consumer Comment

Check the value of a University of Phoenix diploma

AUTHOR: hoapres - (USA)

You need to start contacting prospective employers in the field of study regarding the value of a University of Phoenix diploma.  I suspect that you will find out that many employers will not consider you as a prospective employee with the University of Phoenix diploma.
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#18 Consumer Comment

MY CONCERNS FOR MY FUTURE

AUTHOR: Dark Angel - (United States of America)

I just finished my first year with Phoenix and I a very concerned.

 I do not want to come on this site and bash any one or talk down about anyone, but I am very concerned about my future.

 I have two small children and they along with me deserve the truth.

I just want someone to tell me the truth about what i going with this company before I put anymore money into this company.
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#19 General Comment

Don't continue going to a school that you consider worthless.

AUTHOR: hoapres - (USA)

If you believe that further attendance at a school is worthless then drop out.  The student loan issue won't go away and it is better to deal with it now than later.  Assuming for arguments sake that you have about $20,000 currently of student loan debt then going to school for another 2 years having a total of $40,000 of student loan debt doesn't make sense.  You can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy.  Sounds like that you already decided a University of Phoenix degree is worthless.

Here is the problem with college.  Most jobs really don't require college but simply one that is reasonably well educated at a good high school and an employer that is willing to spend a little bit of time training you.

Unfortunately, college is used as an expensive and unwarranted aptitude test.  Nor is college necessairly eductation per se.  A credential may or may not be an education.

If everybody goes to college and presumably graduates then the diploma is nothing special.  Back in the 1950s few people went to college making the degree more valuable.

Here is another "dirty little secret".  Smart people go to college.  Smart people make the college and NOT the other way around.

If Lincoln (presumably everyone here would agree that he had great intellect even if they dispute his historical stature regarding his Presidency) went to Harvard then Harvard without a doubt would claim in so many words that "Harvard made Lincoln"

The few true genius high school students don't even have to worry about paying for college.  If you are a true intellectual genius then Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Berkeley will literaly come to you with offers of a full scholarship.

You might ask oneself : How does that affect me ??

We have the worse employment situation since the Great Depression.  I am looking for an entry level professional (assume IT for the moment but even law and to a lesser extent medicine have similar supply and demand problems).  The entry level software engineering position has over a 100 applicants and I have the choice between a UC Berkeley Computer Science grad and a University of Phoenix grad in Computer Information Systems (or Management Information Systems)

Guess who is going to get the job ??

It will be the UC Berkeley grad without a doubt

Why ??

1.  It is not easy nor to graduate from UC Berkeley.  The diploma has value because of its intrinsic scarcity being a top 10 school. 

2.  University of Phoenix who takes almost anybody off the street and has the reputation of graduating almost anybody provided they bring the money results in graduates that won't be as qualified as a UC Berkeley grad.

It's no longer a matter as in the 1950s of : Did you go to college ?? In the 21st century it is : What college did you go to ?? It is almost taken as an offer of proof that every serious candidate for jobs went to college.
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#20 Consumer Comment

UOP

AUTHOR: Alissa - (USA)

I have been going to UOP (reluctantly) for 2 years. I am still going and will continue to go because I cannot afford to repay loans they have taken out for me. I still cannot get a job, even with a high GPA and some knowledge of the field I am going into. I am afraid to stop going because then I will have to repay even if I do not have the money. I wish I knew then what I know now because there is no way I would of ever enrolled in this school.
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#21 Consumer Comment

"Hours?"

AUTHOR: DL - (United States of America)

This is in regards to #7 - Leeland and a few other posts. In full disclosure, I do not nor have I ever worked at or attended UOP. However, I have worked in education for a number of years (not faculty) and in business (executive). I have learned one thing in dealing with "real business" and with "education." Hours and Credit Hours don't really mean a thing. There is no correlation between the number of hours spent in a particular class, and the ability of the student to use the information taught in the class. In fact, there is better correlation to the amount of information given, the way and rigor in which it is taught, and the senses stimulated during instruction (tactile, verbal, auditory, etc.). I would argue that a crappy teacher in a "traditional" university, or any institution, in which a student sat through a certain number of hours was far less effective than a well thought out and stimulating curriculum, via distance learning, physical, or otherwise, in which a student sat through less hours. 

Bottom line, I'm not defending UOP, because I don't know their curriculum or faculty. However, to say that they are less "accredited" because students don't sit listening to some tenured, wack-job professor for a certain number of hours is ridiculous. The mainstream establishment of tenured or unionized "teachers" who try to horde knowledge feels very threatened that humans can learn much more and much faster than their traditional classrooms can deliver. Once you get out of the university setting into real business, that's when the real education begins. And guess what! much of it is done online. 
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#22 General Comment

Don't waste money at a for profit web design degree

AUTHOR: hoapres - (USA)

Don't waste your time and money in going for a "Web designer" degree at ANY for profit school.

Web designers are a dime a dozen and don't make very good money.  The IT market is glutted beyond belief and very few jobs exist.

For profit schools in an effort to "process the bodies", "lure the students", will go out and make claims such as Dice has 80,000+ tech jobs.

Unfortunately the vast majority of Dice jobs are fake due to companies broadcasting.  A broadcast is when multiple agencies compete for the same job.  If 10 agencies advertise on Dice for the same job then Dice counts this as 10 and not 1 job.
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#23 General Comment

soon to be going

AUTHOR: jennifer - (United States of America)

I'm looking in to some schools to become a Web Developers Web Developer or Computer Programmer have been looking in to ITT and University of Phoenix, co.

taking in to account that some people are not made to go to a collage and that some also like to gripe about everything. I have not got the answer I wanted from this.
i need to know about on campus not on-line

#1 has someone gone to the University of Phoenix, COLORADO?

#2 I have looked at the U.S. Department of Education and its on there as accredited. where is it saying there not ?

#3 has someone gone for The Bachelor of Science in Information Technology/Software Engineering (BSIT/SE) or a The Bachelor of Science in Information Technology/Web Development

I tried to read everything but some are hard to read its pointless babel and puffery so if this infermation is alrealy on this just point me to the comment number.
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#24 Consumer Comment

Liars

AUTHOR: Rosheeze - (United States of America)

Shouldnt people learn to spell before they get all high and mighty and proclaim their higher education?  UOP is a joke.  I have two degrees I have earned through UOP and I gained two pieces of paper, but I know little more than I did when I started.  Its a ploy to rob students for more and more money!!!!  Any one on here that says any more is f*king liar!!
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#25 Consumer Suggestion

Former UOPX Student

AUTHOR: snow - (United States of America)

Greetings,

  I believe B-from AZ made thruthful points about the business aspect of UOPX.  As a former UOPX Online student, I was mailed my disbursement approximation dates and amounts from the DOE.  I was never given the excess funds until months later.  I questioned the UPOX financial department and was given excuse after excuse.  UOPX has the upper-hand and there is little a student can do.  I was told I could hand-write a letter stating that I did not wish UOPX to handle any future funding; however, I was strongly told that UOPX financial counselors discourage students from doing so. 
It seems that individuals overlook the fact that UOPX is a money-making business.  UOPX takes thousands of dollars from students, lets it sit in their bank, then reaps the interest gained from the monies.  It's a practical business move made by numerous compaines throughout America; however, this being a University of higher learning, perhaps it shocks individuals more so. 

Being a former student, I was amazed at the quality of students that made it to the final course in UOPX.  (Please remember that I am speaking on behalf of the Online classes, not the actually land campus). Anyone who made at least a 60 on their course work was a shoe-in for future classes.  There were moments where I thought I was engaging in 'conversations' with individuals who had an I.Q. lower than my 8 year-old Labrador Retriever.  

  Yes, I took classes because I wanted the recognition I was guaranteed from my advisors...and it gave me something to do while being an at-home mother.  I won't forget to mention that the advisors will call numerous times throughout the first block of classes, then taper off as one progresses.  When I finally finished and officially withdrew, my advisor and financial aid counselor conference called me to inquiry why I was withdrawing.  Naturally, I told then how I felt concerning the operations of UPOX and their business practices.  Odd how I wasn't given a 'word in edgewise', and rarely had the opportunity to speak while the advisors discussed their children, home life, and co-workers.  I ended their conversation abruptly, and it took the UOPX more than 3 weeks to disburse my excess funds which they already had (according to the Department of Education award letter) for more than 4 months.  

  Individuals will defend UOPX because they are proud of what they have accomplished through UOPX's programs. 
  He or she may be of a select few who did not have any trouble with fellow classmates, their instructors, flexible course hours, sub-par assignments, advisors and the challenge of looking up everything on the internet.  

  I think everyone in the forum has valid points and arguments; however, I would advise individuals to research other online schools before choosing UOPX.  The website www.collegeboard.org is a great research tool for future online students. 
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#26 Consumer Comment

Other UOPX Degree Programs?

AUTHOR: S. Shirey - (United States of America)

Thanks so much for taking the time to write about your experiences working at University of Phoenix.  I work for a Human Resources Office in a small county in California, and I can tell you that when an applicant lists a UOPX degree on their resume, our analysts pretty much ignore it as if it wasn't there.

My reason for searching for complaints about UOPX today was spurred by a conversation with a friend I had been out of touch with for 20 years or so.  She told me that she had earned a Master's in Accounting.  I admit that I doubted her story.  To put it as kindly as I can, she wasn't very academically-oriented when I knew her in the past - and she was always prone to fantastical exaggerations.  When I asked her more about her degree, she told me that she'd earned it in 2 1/2 years, START TO FINISH (that's without a previous bachelor's degree) from the University of Phoenix.  How is that even possible? Anyhow, I'd read news stories over the years about University of Phoenix having low instruction quality, admissions scams, and most recently, questions about securities fraud.   When I did an online search for these issues, I soon learned that UOPX has clearly been bombing Google until it's almost impossible to find anything negative about them using obvious search parameters.  I did, however, find your article, and I wanted to ask a couple of questions.

I noticed UOPX calls this degree a "Master's in ACCOUNTANCY."  Is there a difference between the terms "Accountancy" and "Accounting"?  Also, my friend told me that she is NOT a CPA.  The reason she gave made it sound as if she decided against becoming a CPA because she is intentionally avoiding legal liability of some sort.  She said that she didn't become a CPA because she doesn't want to be involved in "attestations" (whatever that is).  I asked her about some of the problems I'd heard about with UOPX, and she was understandably defensive about it.  She said that she'd never heard about UOPX credits not transferring to other institutions or problems with UOPX's lax academic standards.  She told me that UOPX is "fully accredited."  I found it difficult to understand exactly what their limited accreditation means (I see you say it means nothing, but people who get degrees at UOPX are really insistent that it means A LOT).  I was able to ascertain that SOME of their degree programs have this accreditation, and others do not - but UOPX doesn't explain which programs are accredited and which are not.  

In the end, incredibly, my friend claimed she'd never even heard about UOPX degrees being evaluated differently IN ANY WAY by other institutions or prospective employers.  I find this difficult to believe.  It might be a combination of wishful thinking and the realization that she's stuck with it now, so she'd better make the best of it.  

Several years ago, I dated a guy who was working on a Master's Degree in Internet Technology from the University of Phoenix.  I don't think I'd ever met anyone who knew less about the internet than this guy - except for my mom...maybe.  I clearly remember the day I lost any respect I may have had for the University of Phoenix when I read a paper my beau was writing for an advanced graduate-level class on internet technology.  In this paper, he discussed the benefits of the internet over the telephone with regards to communication.  The paper was heavy on anecdotes and almost devoid of facts.   It read as if a second-grader with ADD had written it.  He got an A.


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#27 Consumer Comment

uhhhhh, NO

AUTHOR: amber - (United States of America)

My husband is active duty Army, we have 4 children, i own my own business (he helps me run it). I can honestly say he has never read a chapter of the reading in the year or so he has been there and has done extremely well. He has neve had less than a 93% in a class and that was because he was in the field for 2 weeks and with limited cell service he was unable to log on most days. The classes are a joke and as long as you open the book while taking quizes and search key terms your good. JOKE! He is enrolled in the school I am attending, and starting in a few weeks.
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#28 Consumer Comment

Okay Pap who do you work for?

AUTHOR: amber - (United States of America)

I am just curious as to why you are so angry about someone submitting information to the best of their knowledge. I will say first that my husband attends UOPO, and has for the last year or so. I recently enrolled in a different school if this tells you anything. I decided to look on this site to see if there were other people out there having the problems with them that we are having. While sifting through yours and Bs back and forths I found all I needed to convince my hubby to switch to the school I am attending. Jus tone example is my husbands FA was submitted and received by the school 2 months before mine was (we are both using GI BILL so we both get a credit balance after other aids from the military) I received my money last month. He is still waitng for his. UOP says they released it a month ago. NOT TRUE. My point is if you stop googling info on uop and read what students and former employees are writing you might learn a thing or two. It was a little overwhelming looking for actual personal exeriences in all of your posts that really are just ranting and raving. I would really like to know why this subject is so touchy for you. You are acting as though someone is picking on your child rather than a school who is clearly screwing students. Law suits and settlements do not lie. So if you don't mind, I would like to read what B has to say. There is no way he would know what he knows and be so informed if he was clueless as to what he is talking about. Thanks.
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#29 General Comment

UoP Accreditation

AUTHOR: NYB - (USA)

Thank you for that link, however it is unlikely that the general accreditation dating back to 1978 will help. We were all very different people, operating in a very different world back then. Personal PC's didn't become common for another decade, and the internet not generally available still a while after that.

I'm actually surprised that the OLS (online learning system) they've developed does not have a more recent accreditation. It should, because as a fuctional application it does have the capability to perform the required tasks, and is getting better all the time. The Android applet on the other hand is still vaporware for the most part. One can remain an optimist however, as software is far more easily corrected than the skills of 'facilitators' (what UoP calls their instructors).

According to the database their Graduate Teacher Education Accreditation Council (GTEAC) - Graduate programs Pre-Accredited * 12/01/2007. "Pre-Accredited"??

If so, why then do they still call their instructors 'facilitators' instead of Professors?   Graduate Teacher Education Accreditation Council (GTEAC) - Graduate programsPre-Accredited

However your link lead me to the core Department of Education, and a great deal more valuable information relevent to educational standards and responsibilities.
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#30 General Comment

Thoughts and questions for B

AUTHOR: K - (United States of America)

I have read a handful of the comments here after having read the report itself.  I do think "B" sounds more like a disgruntled employee and criticizing business practices (in particular to how they treat their employees) more than he is criticizing the quality of education.  That being said, I do believe his points and complaints sound valid and are worth investigating. 

The major question I have is as to the legitimacy of the MBA. It seems to me a large number of people try to defend or attack the quality of education at UOP.  The major question simply remains as: do employers recognize the degree?  This is not an easily answered question (though I hear or see lots of comments that this or that employer won't recognize it as legitimate).  "B", you bring up some important considerations regarding the legitimacy of the degree, but if I'm not mistaken, you mentioned that you too "worked there while receiving an MBA".

You mention also that "...if you think that college education is sending e-mails back and forth and work-groups...".  I'm not here to contest you.  I simply want to ask: What is the difference?  I've had some college, but no degree.  In my classes the professor would stand there and lecture, then assign homework.  The students would go home, do the homework, turn it in, get graded and read the comments.  Occasionally the assignments would be discussed in class, but I never really felt I got much from that.  For the record, I went to two separate community colleges where the classes were smaller.  I imagine in a university setting, this would be much harder to get any of the teacher's time.  So, I ask this: What is the difference between physically sitting there and hearing it versus reading the lecture online?  What is the difference in online versus on-campus education?

These are very important to me as on-campus education for me is virtually impossible for me now.  I want to return to both update my education and advance it.  I can understand that there are certain projects that would have to be done in a classroom setting.  A chemistry lab experiment, for example.   However, there are many fields where I can't imagine a physical presence being necessary.  Computer Science for one. 

Online colleges are there because there is a desperate need in today's society.  However, it seems that still after all these years they are mocked and either no one takes them seriously or bothers to correct the problems.  UOP has been around, and easy or not, maintained its accreditation for many years.  It may be bottom barrel, but its in the barrel.  Someone made an analogy to buying a Pinto for 50k.  I agree, but many of us are left with few options.  So I ask then, are there really any viable options for people seeking online education?  What degrees, from your experience would you recommend?  Is there any hope?  What are you doing with your current degree now?

Thanks for your time. 
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#31 Consumer Comment

RATES

AUTHOR: Sunflwr - (United States of America)

That's all they charged in 2005? I am paying $1,805 for each course and I just found out it is taught by facilitators and not actually Professors. I have some guy now that doesn't teach anything. This school is horrible!!! I am in my junior year and I don't know how to get out legally
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#32 Consumer Comment

Oh Jesus F***ing Christ!

AUTHOR: Tim Perdue III - (United States of America)

I knew it I knew it I knew it! I found this because I was curious enough to seek. Originally I was looking at Unleashealth and a little device called a...uh...I forget but it mimics Bob Becks Blood cleaning device thingy.

Someone gave this site a reference on Youtube and claimed that the guy was a Scham ( Ha! I made a Punny)
So, I checked it out. After looking at that, I became curious as to the news I had been hearing of UOPO and what I have heard from other people...D**N!  I thought I was digin' a gold mine. >=-D.  I mean I had heard people have had bad experiences with UOPO but My God!

I thought there was something rather 'phishy' about UOPO...--And I noticed because My Enrollment Advisor Bill Mosely or William Mosely dropped me like a hot potato the second I was enrolled.  --and I mean...the second. His behavior became significantly less...Uh...well now. How could I say? Consistent? Yes, he is an EA but jeez. And Even still Kevin Link is pretty chill but is not as determined as Bill had been.  --And, it was strange because he asked me for referrals too.

Also, I noticed how he kept smacking his lips and saying "now *Smack* let me tell you something *Smack*... We are*Pause* whatever whatever whatever"  It was overtly casual and reeked of a sales pitch. I thought it was pretty funny...at the time.  And I knew this!

I had always thought it was weird...--y'know...--why on earth would a college ask its students if there were any other people they might know needing to attend college?  I have never had that asked to me before, it just felt strange. Am I wrong?

I'd assume that if the college or university was distinguished...--well then, it ought to show in its calsses and students and their achievements afterward and/or during Enrollment. I do not believe this is the case for UOPO. At all...

I JUST enrolled at phoenix and I have to agree with B--Which I hope to god is not Bill...Because that would make him a liar because he is still working there. People trying say what goes on without having worked there is a tough cookie to break.

A. Einstein-Condemnation without investigation is the height of all ignorance.  If you haven't worked there...you can't say that B is wrong unless...you work as he did for yourself.  You may not be able to classify it as true but somehow it is indeed a fact for all you can allow yourself to know.

Annnywho, I do not understand the people that are defending the University? (If you call it defending)  There is nothing to defend it from. If UOPO operates as such. They will burn for it one day.What can you do? Marshmellow anyone?

I know for myself it would not make any coherent sense to attend a university that has as many maaany reports like this; not only on this site but lurking in the classrooms themselves. (One of those students lets me in on stuff) Why would I Enroll? It's not like people just make up these stories? It's very similar to my belief of 'Just fix it'.

Ex: -Why the **ll are Indians called Indians when they are not Indian at all!?

-If I don't believe in buying goods made in other countries....why the hell am I buying them?
-If I don't believe in war why I am supporting our troops? Please test me on that completely irrelevant subject.
-If M. Night Shyamalan is still making shit movies...why the fuck would I continue to pay and watch them?

This is how I am trying to live MY life and in some areas it is easy to apply that Fixit method. Eeeh, others are taking a little more time. Gotta get that Lazy American Gene out of my system.  My point is to some people that have posted in this thread...If people are telling others this is going on inside UOPO Why the h**l would I Enroll? I mean hey, if it looks like trouble, smells like trounble, and acts like trouble it must be....Trouble.

If I know it is wrong why the h**l would I keep doing it?  It makes more sense to just fix the mistake and get over with it and not repeat such an action!  I have just finished m--well I am about to finish my first two, 9 week classes.  But, I think I am going to reconsider continuing because:

 (1.) I do not believe in coincidence. It just sounds silly.  How can you have disorder and random events in a completely structured reality. The Universe is not something of imagination you know? Coincidence=Random and Timely...I don't think so.  (What...you think your body was just randomly strewn together too)

Toni F
Chase S
Stevie
Amber H

 Are people that I know that have/had issues with UOPO One is still a current student that is getting kicked...No money.

(2.) The splitting hair specifics of the events are not as important as the events themselves...regardless of what perspective I choose it does not negate that these things happened. Period.--and they shouldn't. If I do not agree with them why would I compromise with them? That is a very strange thing people do and I do not know why they do not want to change it?

(3.) After more research so I may not become a Sheepiant (Ignorant Sheeple or Sheepon may often be refereed to as a Sheepiant)  I am sure I will find much more of these stories like the ones posted here. I am sure that will be the point of fair realization that I don't want to be a part of this. I really do not.

Thank you all for your info. I read half of the comments and then lost interest...well a little over half but not too significant.

I hope anyone who reads this thread will Think&Feel wisely. I missed the bell by $9,500.00. Had I known this info before I would have likely wrote a letter to UOPO which I am going to do. I would not have Enrolled but that is better than some other amounts I have heard.
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#33 Consumer Comment

Quick Question

AUTHOR: Margie - (United States of America)

B, I noticed you haven't been on here in quite a while and this is a very old thread...but I do have a question, and if anyone has an answer for me, please respond.

I just signed up online for information yesterday, and although I did not receive the information via e-mail like requested, I received a phone call this morning from a recruiter.  I spoke with him and he told me that I sounded like I would be eligible for a good amount of financial aid, or loans.  So I filed my FAFSA this morning, and then I read this...

When the recruiter called me back a little bit ago, I told him I was no longer interested, he didn't even ask me why and just said ok and goodbye.  It seemed too easy.  Do I have anything to worry about??

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#34 Consumer Comment

So....

AUTHOR: dan - (United States of America)

So this question is for sandra since she is the most recent rebuttal.  I have been talkin to an online advisor over the phone to start taking classes next semester for Business. Do you say that UoP is safe?
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#35 UPDATE Employee

An educated comment

AUTHOR: Sandra - (United States of America)

I normally do not give any time to these sour-grapes reports. As one of the responders had mentioned...obviously there are personal reasons that someone would get cut from a job or given a negative report. We don't need to go into these reasons...they are your personal issues. I also take issue with someone who reports to be in education...to write such poor commentary. If it is in you to do well with any company, it would show up in your writing.

That said, I have been a faculty member of Axia, Online - instruction for University of Phoenix for over 5 years now. I knew when I started that there were some administration issues on the table, but it had nothing to do with the quality and level of accredited education that was being given by the University. After having read some of the reported issues...and doing my own research...my first thoughts remain...many of these same issues pertain to many universities and institutions...these are not limited to just the University of Phoenix.

I totally enjoy my work at Axia, UOP...and have taught over 50 courses with a wonderful reward of allowing my students to find a great education in a world where they have to squeeze it in with a busy life. It works for them...and it works for me. Some students come in with an "attitude" that this is a waste of time. These are the students that are poor writers, that write the negative commentary, and are also the students that do no apply themselves in class and are on track to failing. Good educators are use to this, they expect this...and this forum for complaint seems to be the same. Thank you for allowing me this commentary. By the way, in researching other online universities...the pay that this university provides to qualified educators and, I assume, staff...is at par or greater than other of the above mentioned universities; just thought I'd share that.
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#36 General Comment

Past Student and Happy with my Choice

AUTHOR: Johnny - (United States of America)

I have to agree with the past two posters. I went 4 years to UoP to "back-fill" a degree due to the economic outlook of the IT world. 20 years experience was not going to always get me a job when competing with new and young talent. At first I was skeptical, and folks at my company would tease a little due to the non-traditional online aspect of the courses; however, it was due to the availability of creating my own schedule that led me to attend UoP. Plus, my company was footing half of the bill. My company did not seem concerned that an education from UoP would not be good enough or they would not have agreed to pay the money. 

All in all, it was a great experience. I also found that the number of papers and assignments was much more than the traditional ground campus schools. I found that I was researching and applying what I was learning right away. I attended a few college classes years ago and from what I could remember, I did not need to write as much nor apply my learning right away. I felt this was definitely a benefit from the education model that UoP uses. 

And besides, either way you look at it; if you want a degree to impress like a Harvard degree. Go to Harvard. If a Harvard or Yale or Princeton degree is not necessary, then ANY of the thousands of schools out there will do. You will take away as much as you put into it anyway.
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#37 Consumer Comment

Depends on what you are looking for

AUTHOR: Renee - (United States of America)

I just graduated from UOP after completing my Bachelor's Degree in Business and Information Systems. So first a little background on the perspective I am coming from: I started college 17 years ago but couldn't finish due to that pesky thing called "life". I have made a great career for myself as an IT Project Manager at a very large financial institution. However, I discovered that I had hit the glass ceiling in terms of promotions due to my lack of degree. So, I had to find a program that fit into my life and that could meet my goals.

UOP fit the bill. It was expensive, but the program was manageable while working and still allowed me (if I managed my time wisely) to spend time with my family and have a social life. I educated myself about costs and student loans and knew exactly what I was getting into. I was also pleasantly surprised that my extensive work experience and training I had taken through employers would benefit in the form of transfer credits. I CLEP tested out a few others and found that I largely had to complete the foundation (Jr/Sr level) courses only. Some classes were harder than others, but my work experiences always provided a good foundation.

I graduated with an honors level GPA and am looking at University of Illinois for a Masters (at half the cost of UOP). My degree has been accepted, my credits transferred (for prerequisites), and I don't have to take the GRE or GMAT (I point that out specifically because one poster made a lot of hoopla that if you don't have to take the GRE the school's Master's is worthless and I think you'd be hard pressed to question the reputation of U of I).

So, have I gotten what I wanted out of the program, absolutely?! There are reputation concerns about UOP, but for my BS I really don't care. Many of my co-workers don't even have degrees in technology related fields (musical performance, economics?) and are just as good at their jobs as the ones that do and just as good as me. Experience and how hard you are willing to work for what you want is what counts in the real world, especially when you get to my level.

Someone straight out of High School looking to learn a new skill or someone looking to completely change careers may not succeed at this type of program or get out of it what they should. But someone with skills and experience looking to back-fill a degree - there isn't a better program out there. Oh and having worked in the financial industry for as many years I have, people that don't read what they are signing when it comes to financial documents I just have no sympathy. Accept responsibility and learn from your mistakes.
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#38 Consumer Comment

Like some cheese with that whine?

AUTHOR: Mike - (United States of America)

For those of you looking at this thread and trying to decide about the UOP/Axia, let me help you out. I have been enrolled in the criminal justice program since March of 2010. I have currently completed 36 credit hours, with 24 left to go. My scheduled completion date for this associates program is Feb 2012. I was leery at first, especially considering this was an online program, but my fears turned out to be unfounded.  Look, I knew going into this that the UOP was not going to hold the same weight as say Harvard law school, but come on, I am not seeking a six-figure job and neither are most people who attend college. I am 42 years old and my daughter has completed two years at our local community college and one year now at Iowa State University. This has proven to be very insightful because her and I compare "notes" all the time. Consider the following:

My class is all online. Hers is all classroom. I do my communicating with the class via the web and she does hers by sitting and listening to lectures from instructors. What we have both been surprised to learn is that I actually receive a better education than she does. She has little to no homework and all of her instructors are full-time professors at the University. I have a considerable amount of homework that requires constant research and the majority of my instructors are people who hold real jobs in their current field. Also, my instructors are not some group of has-beens. These people all hold impressive degrees and impressive positions at their current employers. My daughter has been absolutely amazed at the level of education and employment some of these instructors have.

Also, just look around in your local community. Almost all schools are beginning to shift to online programs. Just because you're not sitting in a traditional classroom environment, doesn't mean you're not getting a good education. Another food for thought is why do you think so many of these so-called higher-education facilities are so opposed to for-profit schools? The answer is simple. Most of these traditional universities rely on students using federal student loans to help pay for their ridiculously lavish facilities. The multi-million dollar sports programs, the six digits employ salaries, etc, etc. For-profit schools are hazardous to their very existence.

I work in upper-management at my current employer and have so for roughly 15 years. Look, most employers could care less where you obtained your degree. All that matters in most cases is that you have one. If you are looking for a school that gives you a bang for your buck, is convenient for your schedule as a working adult, and does honestly provide a good education, then UOP is a fine choice. I have been nothing but pleased thus far and when I compare it against my daughter's program at the University of Iowa, I really feel good about my decision.
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#39 General Comment

GetEducated.com

AUTHOR: Lala - (United States of America)

CAUTION: The following Special Notes apply to this online college:
In 2009, The University of Phoenix parent company, The Apollo Group, agreed to pay $67.5 million to the federal government for student recruitment fraud and $11 million in attorney fees to the plaintiffs engaged in a False Claims Act lawsuit. The lawsuit charged Phoenix with paying recruiters using performance compensation (including DVD players and spa trips) based on the number of students they enrolled, which is illegal for schools receiving federal student aid money.

http://www.geteducated.com/diploma-mill-police/degree-mills-list/university-of-phoenix-accreditation

















Special Accreditation Report Notes & Alerts





CAUTION: The following Special Notes apply to this online college:







  • In 2009, The University of Phoenix parent company, The Apollo Group, agreed to pay $67.5 million to the federal government for student recruitment fraud and $11 million in attorney fees to the plaintiffs engaged in a False Claims Act lawsuit. The lawsuit charged Phoenix with paying recruiters using performance compensation (including DVD players and spa trips) based on the number of students they enrolled, which is illegal for schools receiving federal student aid money.

























Special Accreditation Report Notes & Alerts





CAUTION: The following Special Notes apply to this online college:







  • In 2009, The University of Phoenix parent company, The Apollo Group, agreed to pay $67.5 million to the federal government for student recruitment fraud and $11 million in attorney fees to the plaintiffs engaged in a False Claims Act lawsuit. The lawsuit charged Phoenix with paying recruiters using performance compensation (including DVD players and spa trips) based on the number of students they enrolled, which is illegal for schools receiving federal student aid money.








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#40 Consumer Comment

Currently Attending trying to leave!

AUTHOR: Cole - (U.S.A.)

I currently have 12 credits from UOP in Criminal Justice, and I have just started the next two classes.
I read some comments on here, and I decided to look it to transferring to my local college. However, the adviser from my local college told me I could only transfer 6 of my current 12 credits as electives only. She has dealt with this college before, through other students and she has never had a student
successfully receive their transcripts for transfer. When I spoke with my educational adviser from UOP the day before; she looked up the local college and told me my credits should transfer, "no problem."  I am now working on extracting my financial aid and transcripts from UOP, and I consider myself lucky because I could have completed my Associate degree and then figured it out. I feel horrible for all
of the other students currently attending UOP. Don't trust your advisors they work for the school. Good Luck!

 
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#41 Consumer Comment

Reality Check

AUTHOR: mmster - (United States of America)

     Please forgive my cynical tone, but to those many crtics of UoP: Did you not know what you were getting yourselves into? The problems with financial aid aside, all I hear is people whinning about going to school, not getting their dream job, and blaming UoP.

     I see references to companies like Intel not recognizing a UoP degree. I've got news for you, the schools Intel won't accept degrees from runs into the hundreds. As a matter of fact, tech companies barely even recruit in the United States anymore. Here's an idea, how about contacting potential employers about acceptance BEFORE attending school and you're two months from graduation.

      As for the forementioned "hallowed not-for profit" universities, I find it almost comical that some of these schools are sitting on $250, $500, and $750 million endowment funds still insist they are non-profit. Plus, they are just as greedy when it comes to getting their hands on Uncle Sam's dollars and the financial aid screwups are just as numerous.

     If you claim to do your homework in school, then why don't you do your homework about the school? Stop complaining about the evil finicial aid counselor/salesperson and make it right. Pull your aid and go elsewhere. That's the quickest way to get their attention.

     This isn't high school anymore, there aren't many instuctors that are going to take you by the hand through the course of you're degree (that goes for any university). This is supposed to be "big-boy" school, and the ultimate responsibility for your success or failure is the person staring back at you in the mirror.   

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#42 Consumer Comment

It is a RIP OFF!

AUTHOR: Alissa - (United States of America)

I have to agree that if someone cannot finish one school, why would they be able to finish another! BUT.... in my case, I am not going to pay $20,000 for an AA! Yes, UOP has taken out $20,000 in LOANS so I can get an AA that may or may not help land me a job. When I was called about updating my FAFSA, I was told it was to get PELL GRANTS! Not loans, I never would have accepted that. So I am fed up with the money issue. The class assignments at UOP are extremely SIMPLE! A cat could do it and get all A's. All the work is easily accessible online, just google the class and there it is! I think that if I were to do this all over again I wouldn't. It is not worth it. I am a single mom, and wasn't able to get to school so I chose this online BS. Now I am going to be paying for it, literally, til I die.
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#43 General Comment

Everyone Is Crazy Here

AUTHOR: lovedemi4life - (Virgin Islands (US))

Let me start off by saying I don't appreciate being called stupid for working hard to improve myself. What I don't understand is why half of the people that posted in this forum are even still in school. To me if your in school six years and haven't acquired your Masters Degree your stupid. From what I have read many people started a program and didn't finish, then tried to transfer to a different school. How stupid is that? If you cant complete one school what make you  think you can complete another. I read about someone going through a year and a half of classes at UoP then tried to transfer. Why not finish what you started? To me that's having regret for a decision you made and to compensate for your lack of commitment you want to attack other students. Well that's not going to fly! I don't care what college you go to it does'nt make you anymore intelligent then anyone else. I know a lot of smart people that are stupid. They attend so called better colleges and stay in them for god knows how long and still don't feel they have enough education to satisfy them. How sad it is to read people hating on other people just because they didn't fulfil their own goals. I have been a student at UoP for three years and I plan to attend Wright State University for my masters program. Not because I don't love the UoP but because of people like you that criticize their students degrees. Making them seem like a joke when they are not. Every person that has received a degree from the UoP had to complete the program. It doesn't matter if you think the class materials are a joke or not. The student meet the requirements to complete the program and they deserve the same respect others get for finishing a degree program. It is ridiculous that people are so unhappy with their own mistakes that they try to discredit the whole system. It pretty petty don't you think? I would think someone with as much education as all of you claim to have would have something more productive to do with their time!
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#44 Consumer Comment

I Fight to Stay Positive Despite Being Ripped Off!

AUTHOR: Michael - (United States of America)

Well, I have been reading anti University of Phoenix posts for several years now and have just sat quietly, reasoning that others have already posted my sentiments. I now feel compelled to tell my story to protect any still contemplating attending UoP.

I originally enrolled in UoP back in the late '90s. I am a pretty smart guy, but I was young and totally wrapped up in the belief that the powerful and influential within the business world had college degrees and I didn't. I was an ambitious african american man, eager yet totally ignorant to the professional world. Having no family members that been to college, I believed that it didn't matter where you went to college, or what you majored in, only that you went to college.

I went to a local community college and earned my AA degree. I worked hard in school and I had a great new job. I didn't want to quit my job, my family couldn't afford to take care of me, and I wanted to move up quickly, so I decided to go to UoP. I whizzed my classes, due to the strong community college training. I was consistently the smartest in the class! However, I was always disappointed in the negative talk I would hear from coworkers and others at my job that had negative things to say about UofP. I would look at people in their University clothing and wait for the day that I would wear University of Phoenix gear proudly. My group and I would meet every week and start the session by fantasizing about the cars and homes we would buy once our degree propelled us up the corporate ladder.

Well, here we are 10 years later from graduation date. I work at the same place, and coworkers respect me because I am smart, hardworking and easy to get along with, yet they know I am not properly college educated. For example, I know how to theoretically merge a company and consolidate large businesses, but I don't know philosophy and other basics that I would have learned in a traditional school. While uneducated people believe that a degree from an accredited institution is all that matters, it goes way beyond that. The UoP does not teach, it fulfills requirements to maintain accreditation. Yes, you can learn there, just as you can go to the library and teach yourself. What you don't get is an insiders view to the minds of the educated. I used to sell myself short and think, if only I can get into the company, then I can work hard and move up. What is missing from the degree is the networking and the rigors that a not for profit academic can challenge you with. I learned the hard way that there is no short cut to knowledge and mastery. The hard work and sacrifice that it takes to educate oneself is the distinguishing quality, not a paid for piece of paper. I have wondered why Intel and other companies have rejected the OoP degree. Think about it: If UoP offered training and discipline that was comparable to other schools, why would companies discount it? The unfortunate reality is that we weren't trained through sweat and hard work, we took the easier way out and everyone knows it. Yeah, we read a lot and met often, but we did nothing compared to a traditional school. If you don't believe me, take a community college math class and compare it to the same class at UoP.   

I am now attending another community college and am enrolled in classes to apply to a masters program. I am hoping that excellent grades and great letters of recommendation can get me into a program that will supersede the University of Phoenix degree. Now that I'm older, I feel the need to be educated. To actually learn statistics and organizational behavior, not just read some articles, write rushed papers and be passed along. I have to go now, I have to work to pay off my UoP loan! Yes, 10 years later I'm still paying it!   
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#45 UPDATE Employee

Overload

AUTHOR: Daniel - (Virgin Islands (US))

Allow me to initially state that I am presently a student at UOP. I like the way that you presented your experiences, and how you categorically revealed your facts and links for verification. I do not believe that you have a gripe, or that you are vengeful.

What I percieved from your post is a desire to educate, and inform potential students of UOP and their administravitive process. I cannot say why some UOP students succeed, and some fail; but I do believe that capitalism rivals academics at UOP. The suggestion that I would like to add to

your comments is: before deciding to enroll at any on-line campus, get a working knowledge of algebra. Even if your enrollment counsellor tells you that it is not necessary. Another point of interest is: become familiar with at least basic computing before you enroll.

UOP instructors will not wait for you to understand any of this (algebra or computing), will not help you, and will fail you. One more thing to remember if you still decide to enroll with UOP. If there is a legitimate technical issue that has been confirmed with tech support that

 the issue does exist; do not expect leniency from your instructors; because instructors are not credited for follow ups and they will not go the extra mile to get you the grade comparable to your skills or efforts (it's a crap shoot). 

I like my counselor; my counselor makes me laugh, and that is all that I personally require from my counselor; because UOP is so much bigger than it's personel, and most personnel are just trying to live.

At the present time; the roaring lion is winning with it's "campus in every major city" attitude. Can an organization sustain verility while promoting ineptitude? I hope that it is not too late for UOP to change it's image because I would like to see them succeed while assisting others in their success as well, or will they just bail out, "take the money, and run?"

 

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#46 Consumer Comment

Ex-UOP CEO Brian Mueller now caught in same SCAM at Grand Canyon College

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

Brian Mueller was CEO of UOP (aka Apollo, aka AmwayU) when UOP was first caught using student loan monies to pay sales commissions/Hawiian vacations.

Mueller, now CEO of Grand Canyon College has been caught again in exactly the same scam: violation of the False Claims Act.

It's the same old story: Muller paid his "counselors" sales commissions with student loan monies. The most recent settlement with the US is for five million dollars.

It is also important to note that UOP's  percentage of revenue from Title IV government loans is 89%. The max allowable is 90%. How lucky can UOP be???

Steve Eisman, portfolio manager for FrontPoint Fiancial Services testified before Congress; please Google his opening statement "Subprime Goes to College".

Finally, I was remiss in not acknowledging Rip-Off Report in exposing the Apollo/UOP student loan scam.

Rip-Off Report has provided the the forum for those who have been ripped off by predators such as UOP and Grand Canyon College. Desperate people, searching for a better life are easy prey for UOP and GCC.

I have spoken to the New York Times and have directed same to Rip-Off report. Ditto ABC News. Without Rip-Off Report exercising it's 1st Amendment Free Speech and Freedom of Assembly (us, the readers!) rights, these predators never would have been found out for the frauds they are.

The influence of Rip-Off Report cannot be underestimated: ROR has cost the UOP's of the world BILLIONS of dollars. Investors throughout the world Google "UOP ripoff" and come up with hundred of complaints. They refuse to capitalize Apollo and sometimes even short the stock.

Great work, ROR. Thank you for leading the way in consumer education and empowerment.
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#47 Consumer Comment

ABC News Hammers UOP with undecover report

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

It's happened again...UOP (Apollo Group, aka Amway U) has been caught again, this time by ABC News in an undercover sting. For all those of you who did not know, Amway U has had to pay the US back 77 million dollars for using tuition money to pay sales commissions and Hawaiian vacations.

Since B initially reported these violations on Rip-Off report, UOP having eaten over 2 BILLION dollars in stock buy backs still has seen their (Apollo) stock collapse, losing over 46% of it's value despite the buy-backs.

And now, they've been caught again. If anyone out there wants to file a lawsuit (qui tam or class action) simply Google "Nancy Krop"...you'll see the light, folks.

It's over for Amway U...they're done. They're now nothing more than Kaplan or ITT or your local culinary school. For more information simply bring up ABC News and you'll see it all, in ugly, living color.

You did it, B. You really did it.
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#48 Consumer Comment

Hey everyone GUESS WHAT I AM POSTING GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!

AUTHOR: Happy1withshatteredreamz - (U.S.A.)

I am posting this to let everyone know about this program the president just signed. This should help us extremely well with the vultures. Obama passed income based repayment for the loans. Most awesome thing is you file your taxes then file with them and they tell you what you can pay over the year. I made 1,400.00 all year last year :( but this should help a great deal because my loans are in default and NCO group has them. (THESE PEOPLE SUCK IF YOU HAVE AN ACCOUNT IN COLLECTIONS WITH THEM COMPLAIN TO THE CREDITOR AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET IT AWAY FROM THEM!!! My best friend who has Cerebral Pulsay dealt with NCO and they have threatened to sell her wheel chairs, as well as everything in her home and put her in jail. They threatened to call DSS on me for non payment of my bills which is screwed up!) Google it and the website will come up........I can't list it cuz of RR's rules, but it is income based repayment.

Hope this will help everyone.
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#49 Consumer Comment

And now the banks

AUTHOR: Happy1withshatteredreamz - (U.S.A.)

My comment to JJ........before you go shooting off learn to spell. I'm bipolar and dislexic, I'm not an idiot. It's spelled Grammar. I know I have typo's I don't need someone to point it out for me.

I am now dealing with the banks calling me once a week going where is our money. I managed to get a part time job, which right now is a very hard thing to do, but I only work 20 hours a week there. What's worse is thanks to the new "Fair Credit Reporting Act", hope everyone is secure in their job if your loan through UOP defaults: because now everyone is checking your credit. If you sign an application, there is a new note in the disclaimer which stated they will be checking your background through "consumer reporting agencies". This IS a credit check.

Good luck to all that have been ripped off by these vultures.
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#50 Consumer Comment

UOP & Financial Aid Screwed Me

AUTHOR: ZonaGal43 - (United States of America)

Sheila,

The same EXACT thing has happened to me.  I told them that I could not afford to pay a student loan when I was "just" inquiring on the school.  The girl told me that she would get me a student loan and I said that I can only do a Pell Grant & would qualify income wise since I was a working single parent.  She said no problem, but that in order to attend, I would have to sign a promisory note, just in case I wanted to take more classes (more than the grant would pay for.)  I insured that I would not go beyond what the pell would pay for.  I took 2 classes, 3 credits each @ $485 per credit hour and each new classe started every 5 weeks.  When they told me that my next class would need to be English 101, which I already took through another college, I told them that I was not about to pay nearly $1400 to take this class when I had already taken it.  They told me that I could not go any farther or take any other classes until I took Eng. 101, so I quit UOP.  I did not have a choice of what classes I wanted to take and when.  I am now stuck with a wage garnishment because I can not make the Student Aid Commissions monthly payment.  My loan is with 1 company, but they are reporting as 3 companies on my credit report.  This is the only negetive mark on my credit and now I'm screwed.  I currently work in education and due to government budget cuts, my hours have been cut.  This loan is a government loan and they would cut the payment down when I lost my hours.

So, I am with you if you choose to do anything.....I read the recent lawsuit of the whisleblowers and they won a lot of money.  What about people like us that were screwed by these same whisleblowers?  I did contact the law firm that handled their case & have not heard anything as of yet.  2 classed cost me nearly $3000 and the books were free for signing up!

I don't know if you can contact me through this post.  If not, post another report and maybe we can find a way to connect.

 

 

 

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#51 Consumer Comment

Cap locked complaint

AUTHOR: JJ - (United States of America)

I hope they enroll you in a grammer class.
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#52 Author of original report

I have told anyone I know stay far far away from this school..............if you're enrolled I feel sorry for you because in 4 years your "degree" probably will not be what you think: my UOP hell

AUTHOR: Happy1withshatteredreamz - (U.S.A.)

I have a report already listed so I am submitting my story here as well:

I started going to University of Phoenix after another friend of mine told me she was having success there. My classes started in the fall of 2006. I had told the university I wanted to persue a law degree, which they told me "An Associates degree in the Arts of Criminal Justice would be the best way for you to get the law degree." First of all: There is NO LEGIT LAW PROGRAM in UOP. Criminal Justice is great for forensics, or to be a cop. You need a legal studies degree to become a lawyer. Secondly, I think they are doctoring their books because they claim I owe them about 5000.00 (not counting student loans) after I ended up in several bad situations. I failed 2 classes due to attendance, even though I was in my classes 2 nights a week after having to walk 3 miles to the local community college. They waived those, which I felt was awesome of them, and I resumed my courses retaking those classes again and passing them. I then became homeless into my second block. Dispite my luck I had faith, and I passed those 2 classes. The 3rd set of classes I failed. I retook theose and passed as well as my fourth set of classes. My fifth set I again failed. I paid them $1000.00 to reenroll in class again (they claim I owed them 3600.00 and this is before I read the reports) and they told me they would wave the other $2600.00 I owed them as long as I passed my next two classes. I have a pell grant and a student loan, which I use to pay for school. (which they explained to me if I didn't pass the class the student loan didn't cover it I had to retake the class and pay for the failed class out of pocket.) Silly me fell for that one.........I failed those classes too due to an emotional collapse: I didn't understand an assignment and asked a teacher for help. I even provided my cell phone number and asked her to call me to help me. Not only did she not call, but the only response to my question I got was "Read the material I gave you and you will figure it out." I did read it: I didn't understand the assignment which was submitted on ANOTHER WEBSITE other than UOP's and I stated this in a response to the teacher again asking her to call me because I was having trouble and I didn't understand the assignment as far as the other website. I was told again to read and I would understand, so then I stopped going to my classes. After all what was the point if I didnt understand it and they were supposed to be teaching me yet I was not having anything explained to me.
So now I get a letter stating I owe ACS (I guess a company they are tied in with) money for my classes, yet it doesn't give an amount, just says to call them. I also get a bill for my student loan. I had to get a second lender for the loan because my original lender (Wachovia) doesn't offer loans anymore because of the merger with Wells Fargo. I haven't had the best dealings with Wachovia anyways so I went to Bank of America. I get a bill from Bank of America stating I owe almost 2100.00 for a student loan, plus my original loan from Wachovia was over 5000.00. If the student loan didn't cover the class I failed, why was Bank of America (who only paid the loan on the most recent 2 classes Wachovia covered the rest) billed in the first place? To top it off, from what I can gather, I owe the school something around 5000.00 as well. On credits for a degree that is useless to me. On the up side, my loans aren't in default, so I can go to another institution. Thankfully I also now have a stable home and my fiancee' to back me.
This angers me that I have taken like 12 classes and I know they are overcharging me, AND they also lied to my friend that went there for a teaching degree. They lied to her and told her a pell grant would cover all the expenses. Now she has a loan in default because she failed a class (due to being homeless as well) and I told her about the waiver then read reports and told her stay far away from them. They sold me on a law class not even worth anything. They claimed they could help me achieve my dreams and accomplish my goals: All they did was shatter them. If anyone from UOP reads this I only have one thing to say: What you did to me was wrong................what is worse is you guys also knew I was a single mother! You not only stole from me but you stole from my daughter. I had nothing and you took it down to less. And to rob an innocent child! How do you people sleep at night? Their "criminal justice" course system is just as big of a joke as they are. Also note to everyone so you know:
These people were just sued by their employees for their business practices. google it. Now just as "B" insinuated about the money that "appears" now we know how.
I have documents to prove I was charged for those classes twice too........what can I do?

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#53 General Comment

TO ALL THE PEOPLE DEFENDING UOP

AUTHOR: n3n3 - (United States of America)

I AM CURRENTLY ENROLLED IN THE UOP AND I STRONGLY FEEL THEY R A RIPOFF.. THEY DONT LET US PICK OUR OWN CLASSES THEY WORK HAS NOTHIN TO DO WITH WHAT WE ARE STUDYING AND R JUST PLAIN STUPID. AND ALSO I TRANSFERRED FROM ANOTHER UNIVERSITY WITH CREDITS AND THEY OR ONLY GOING TO EXCEPT 10 OUT OF MY 44 CREDITS AND THEY HAVE THAT I STILL HAVE TO TAKE PSYCHOLOGY COURSES WHEN I HAVE ALREADY DONE SO. MY ENROLLMENT COUNSELOR WOULD ALWAYS TELL ME THAT I HAD TO AUTHORIZE CERTAIN THINGS WHEN SUBMITTING MY PAPERWORK IN WHICH I FELT WAS CRAZY BUT I NEVER CHANGED WHAT I HAD SELECTED AND ALSO I HAVE BEEN ENROLLED FOR 7 WEEKS AND THEY STILL HAVE NOT PUT MY MONMEY TOWARD MY ACCOUNT OR SENT OUT ANY REFUND CHECK. MY COUSIN IS ALSO ATTENDING AND THEY HAVE ALREADY ENROLLED HER IN HER SECOND TERM OF CLASSES W/O HER CONSENT AND TOLD HER THAT SHE COULD NOT TRANSFER OR IF SHE DID DHE HAD TO PAY THEM THE AMOUNT OWED AND THE CLASSES HAVE NOT EVEN STARTED YET..IT SAD THAT THEY WOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE,LIE, AND TRICK PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING SO HARD TO BETTER THEMSELVES SO I SAY TI HELL WITH THE UNIVERSITY OR THE PEOPLE BACKING THEM UP BUT I WILL SURE BE ON THE PHONE WITH THEM  IN THE MORNING WITH MY CONCERNS..AND I ALSO THOUGH IT WAS FUNNY THAT IN THE GEN 105 CLASS WHEN U MISS A ASSIGNMENT THE TEACHER ALWAYS WRITES BACK AND IN COM/140 THE NEVER GRADE YOUR WORK ON TIME AND ALWAYS COUNT OFF FOR SENSELESS THING... THE FUNNY THING IS ME AND MY COUSIN HAVE DIFFERENT TEACHERS BUTTHE TEACHERS ARE THE SAME WAY..

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#54 Consumer Comment

you are a guy with guts....hats off to you

AUTHOR: James - (U.S.A.)

I am seeking a online company for my son to go to for human resource/business management.....was just going to sign up with phoenix and found 500 reports on them....do you or anyone know of an aacsb accredited online course for me.  Thank you for coming forward when all else seemed to lie down.
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#55 Consumer Comment

BRAVO "B"

AUTHOR: Georgia - (U.S.A.)

Let me tell you, thank you for bringing it all out and being honest. UoP is nothing but unethical liars and someone has got to make them accountable for thier actions and shut them down.  How many law suits will they have to pay for until someone finally shuts them down?

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#56 Consumer Comment

aacsb

AUTHOR: JJ - (United States of America)

I guess I am not seeing your issue?  You attened UoP without doing research and now you are finding out that only 7% of schools are accredited by aacsb?  And employers are laughing at  your degree and not the way you present yourself on paper and in person?  You are upset that you went to a for-profit school and wonder why they are making money on you?
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#57 Consumer Comment

EDUCATION...What is it really?

AUTHOR: Golden - (U.S.A.)

Let's face it...our educational system is NOT what it used to be or should be. I personally have been out of high school 46 years and the best school I EVER attended was Cass Technical High School in Detroit, Michigan. Back then, you could major in everything to music, 4-5 types of engineering, home economics, math, etc. Everything below 70& was failing so you got an exceptional education.

Since that time, I have taken classes from at least 9 different colleges, all accredited. Next to Cass Tech, my second choice would be Los Angeles Valley College where I receive an Associate Degree in Broadcasting. It is a 2 year school. (I have 10 years of college, a B.A, a teaching credential and have taken several courses for an M.A)

I discovered that even sitting in classes, like CA State University Northridge, a good education is not promised. I finished all my coursework for my Master and at the end of my project...80% completed, I was told that I was missing the first part...which I had begun a couple years previously at a school I no longer worked at. So what do you do?

Like in the lower grades, elementary through high school the system had also failed us. We PAY for the paper we earn. I have not seen that much difference in any of the four year universities no matter where they are located, how much they cost, whether they are classroom, online or correspondence. Of course, in most cases accreditation is an issue. I just say do the best you can...try to keep your expenses down and research carefully because they are all costly in one way or another. University of Phoenix, like others pour out areas like teachers, but now with the crisis, even those fields have difficulty securing employment. It is bad and sad when they can't hold up to their promises, but to be honest, MANY COLLEGES are like that. They offer a "change as you go format."
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#58 Consumer Comment

Ripped off By UOP

AUTHOR: Armywife65 - (U.S.A.)

My daughter was ripped by UOP and we are trying to get more people that were ripped off in the same way.

Her story is that, she is a single mom and thought she was getting a pell grant, to not have to pay anything what so ever for schooling, Her enrollment counselor says in the notes at UOP, that he walked her thru the paper work regarding loan process and told her how much the pmts would be, etc...BUT he never did on that part. He told her she was not getting a loan that it was just formality for in case she wanted a loan. She would have never signed up with UOP if she had known she was getting a loan. She signed because she had trust in this person representing University of Phoenix.

I specifically asked my daughter, if she was sure she was not getting a loan and she said yes, it's all free, because she's not working and she's a single mom.....well they screwed her and now they are saying that she owes $15,000.00 in student loans and that "she signed" which she was TOLD to sign, that it was all formality.

If we can get enough people, we will file a class action law suit. So if there is anyone that was told, they would not have to pay anything on a continuous basis from UOP, and now has to pay those loans, please email us

you can try to get a hold of me: read between the signs or my name at bottom:
rippedoffbyuop dot g...l dot c m

Hope to hear back from anybody
SheilaOnTheWeb
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#59 Consumer Comment

Taking your credits with you.

AUTHOR: Rick - (U.S.A.)

Hi,

If you are in your sixth week of taking classes the only thing you can do is finish your current classes, and give the university notice via email of your intentions of not continuing. Whether the credits are recognized by another institution is up to that institution.

With proper notice any money not used will be returned to the lender. If you are scheduled for classes and do not withdraw you will be charged for those classes regardless of whether you participated or not.

The school will make every effort to convince you to stay. You must stand your ground and do not let the school pressure you to do something you know in your heart is not for you.

Phone calls should be followed up emails with responses from the school confirming what was discussed on the phone. Create a paper trail; phone calls are hearsay. I am glad you have recognized that this on-line program is not for you, but do not fail the classes you are currently attending because you will be liable for any outstanding costs. Student loans and grants are not going to cover a failed class.

Any classes you have taken must be paid for before you may get any transcripts from UoP. I suggest leaving on a good note; do not lose your temper. Take the initiative and do not wait for "things to happen." If an email is not replied to within three days send it again and add to the email any concerns about not receiving a reply the first time. You will be working against the clock. If your email is ignored and a class is scheduled for you and you are not withdrawn, then you will owe for that class.

Respectfully,

A former satisfied student.
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#60 Consumer Comment

A few questions for B?

AUTHOR: Rosa - (U.S.A.)

I am now going on my sixth week. I am taking Criminal Justice online and I am having second thoughts about still attending this place. I want to know how can I transfer without owing UOP? What are the necassary steps I need to take in order for me to have full control over my FA funds? I do not trust the UOP and I want to make sure my funds are safe and going on me, not them if you know what I mean?

Please if anyone can help me with this matter feel free to do so. I am needing all the help I can get. So B if you read this soon please give me some feed back? By the way you are very much missed around here. I agree with everything in you're report about the UOP. I don't get how some will come in here defending them, why?
Is it that they have no heart? And don't care to see the real truth?
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#61 Consumer Comment

What about their Elementary Ed. Bachelor's degree?

AUTHOR: Bblanton - (U.S.A.)

I'm looking into UOPO, specifically their Elementary Ed. program. I'm a bit skeptical and even more so when I discovered all these reports. Since you're a former employee, what do you know about that particular program? My admissions counselor is Annie Wan and she's trying to get me started but I'm trying to slow the process to double check this school. I'm enrolled at a local university but I was curious about UOPO as far as the ease of taking everything online. The school district that I want to teach in accepts it but I'm not really sure that I'll be able to get a job after going to UOPO.

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#62 Consumer Comment

Wasting time

AUTHOR: Trs - (U.S.A.)

I came accross this by accident, and would have to say this is an arguement that is a big waste of time. I can understand people posting their comments regarding both sides of the issue, however, the bashing is ridiculous. I know several graduates from UOP that recieved a high quality education and I know a few people that were unable to make it through the program or had to re-take classes because of poor grades. The facts are:

1. it is an accreditited institution
2. you obtain a valid degree
3. you are only going to get out of it what you put into it (which is true at any institution)
4. potential employers will not turn you away just because you obtained a degree from UOP.
5. I know a professor at a state university that would not hesitate to hire a UOP graduate, and yes the credits will transfer to this university.
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#63 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Filing Class Action Please respond>

AUTHOR: Bubblelyme - (U.S.A.)

All of you students whom have had trouble with the Unversiety of Phoneix online or Axia college with them taking and misuse of the funding that was provided to you by the school or were charge for classes that you never enrolled in and can prove it. I am trying to abtain a Attorney at this time. If you are intrusted in getting involved with me. You mail email me at mkizer@triad.rr.com pertaining this matter. Since there seems to be so many of us out there. Someone has to take the step to get the ball rolling.
mary
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#64 Consumer Comment

Thinking about attending to UOP

AUTHOR: Lady_sakura - (U.S.A.)

My brother went to UOP and seem to have no problem with the school. I go to a community college here in AZ and the advisors don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. I am looking to go to another school for higher education since it is hard to get a computer degree at these community colleges.

I was going to email my brother about UOP and get information about their computer degrees. If UOP is such a scam, then how come my brother got a computer degree there and had no problems getting a job?
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#65 Consumer Comment

IF B IS SO BAD

AUTHOR: Bubblelyme - (U.S.A.)

Oh guys open your darn eyes. IF B is so bad and wrong then while does the college have lawsuiet pertaining to these act things. Why so many people having problems in the same area over THERE BEING MONEY! You all that are defending the school are stupid and I hope they take you for every penny you have. For us that are smart keep up the work and research and we get the last laugh in the end!!!
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#66 Consumer Comment

THE SCHOOL SCREWED ME WITH MY Transcripts

AUTHOR: Bubblelyme - (U.S.A.)

MR B,
This is whats going on with me. I wen this stupid unversity for one full year then dropped because i was awarded moeny from finical aid and they said they never recieved any and every semister i was having to pay money out of my pokecket. It got to the point i could not afford that with my four children at home.Now iam going back to tech school here in my local town and they wont give me my transcripts saying i owe them like anther 2900 dallors. its bull crap. Idont know how I am gonna get my transcripts.
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#67 Consumer Suggestion

what can i do??

AUTHOR: Sms09 - (U.S.A.)

I just enrolled a couple days ago at UoP. I havent started any classes not even oreientation. After reading everything on here I am scared and do not want to attend this place. Since I have not started any classes can I get out of it without it costing me? should I contact FASFA and let them know i will not be attending that shool? HELP please
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#68 Consumer Suggestion

University of Phoenix

AUTHOR: Confused - (U.S.A.)

I have a pell Grant of 4310.00 that was scheduled amount that was awarded to me plus, a Stafford Loan of 5000.00 dollars. I was told they charged for that loan. so the loan is now 4951.25. I feel that I am getting ripped off, and I can't prove it.
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#69 Consumer Comment

B., thanks for educating me about the UoP online.

AUTHOR: Tdbrown - (U.S.A.)

After reading many, many comments and rebuttals posted here regarding the UoP online, it appears to me that the "success stories" from some are the exception and certainly not the rule for the UoP online program.

Due to my "homework" researching the UoP online and thanks to RipoffReport, there will be one less scam victim, for now.
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#70 Consumer Suggestion

Oh Lord, I was really fearing this...

AUTHOR: Ohmylord2141 - (U.S.A.)

I am currently pursuing a bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice at UoP.

I went straight into the family business after high school & I pay my tuition out of pocket. I work about 80-90 hours a week for my parents; so I thought I had fallen into a great thing. I really need some advice here. Being a year and a half in... should I continue?

My concerns are:
1. Is this place really accredited?
2. If my credits won't transfer but my degree will, should I get the degree and then do grad work elsewhere? *(assuming the degree will work)
3. I understand people are less likely to hire a UoP grad than someone from a state school, but are they completely worthless?

The retards who could not count, spell, write, or think were in my first 3-4 classes; but now I am with people who are fairly smart & their companies pay for them.

^The above concerns me... why would a large business pay for their employee to attend a joke of a school?


Thanks to any advice/info anyone can give me.

-Ohlord.
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#71 Consumer Suggestion

This is the subprime of education

AUTHOR: Mad Taxpayer - (U.S.A.)

After doing some research I am glad that former employee's are telling the truth. I bet the guy from Citron Research who has been exposing this scandal would love to hear from you. I am all for funding students who want to better their lives, but to saddle a person with debt, promises of the ability to transfer credits, I had an admission counselor tell me that I could transfer to Yale and Stanford as they had the same accreditation. After calling both schools and have them laugh I was appauled that individuals who didn't think to verify their boiler room tactics are really being victimized. Would love to chat with the honest person who posted this as I think the DOE needs to hear this stuff.
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#72 UPDATE Employee

B is wack - Here's how we enrollment counselors do things...

AUTHOR: 3ntropy - (U.S.A.)

Every fact in his diatribe from over 2 years ago is inaccurate. I am an enrollment counselor, and I'm not a used car salesman. In fact, I hate sales. We do not have a script to follow with phone calls, nor do we get paid on student enrollments.

Here is how we get paid, just so you all know. 30% of our job is speaking to people over the phone, educating them, and helping them enroll once they have all the facts. We cannot qualify people. If they chose to enroll after I ask them numerous times, "Do you understand how everything works, including the finance aspect?" then it is my job to make their enrollment smooth.

about 30% is student retention, or making sure to cover concerns, address issues, and pull out all the stops to make sure students are doing well and stay motivated and consistent in class. We work in teams of three. Enrollment, Academics (scheduling), and Finance (student loans and payment arrangements). This "graduation team" is dedicated to small groups of students and calls to check in constantly to make sure everything is going smoothely. No other school does this.

the final 40% is how we operate as employees. Firstly compliance with company, privacy, federal, and business policies is so highly stressed, that it's almost big-brother-ish. Our accrediting body (HLC), The Dept. of Education, and the SEC all oversee our day-to-day operations to make sure we do everything right. In 2 years at two separate campuses I have seen the HLC do walk-throughs of each campus twice.

Besides getting along and singing Kumbaya with my co-workers, we have to be experts on programs like FFELP, PLUS loans, Stafford loans, Pell Grants, compliance issues such as ADA, FERPA, GI Bill money, foreign students, and stringent student record protection policies. It's extremely complex.

I am a believer in this company. I acknowledge that their are SNAFU's, but that's why it's called a SNAFU. We try to go the extra mile to help people, and I am so gratified when a student finds their path again after quitting school 23 years ago because they got married and had kids, and are now walking across the stage with their HIGHLY valuable college dimploma from UoP.
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#73 Consumer Comment

Current Student

AUTHOR: Naleetia - (U.S.A.)

Ok, when I first came across this I was very concerned and right away made some phone calls and web surfing to get more information. What I found is they are a legit online college. I called and got the info from the very site you say they aren't. This was also recently done again in 12/2008 as you will see on the report. It does state UOP and not Apollo but Apollo owns UOP so that makes them legit.

Thanks,

http://www.ncahlc.org/index.php?option=com_directory&Itemid=192&Action=ShowBasic&instid=1949
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#74 Consumer Comment

WHERE IS "b" we miss you

AUTHOR: Tara - (U.S.A.)

Hey, b I hope you come back because (this sounds so dumb) but I miss you so much. I was laughing so hard at your witty and satirical remarks as well as the remarks of others. Oh my gosh! I hope no one was traumatized as a result of this debate. While some agree with "b" and some don't most of us have to admit that he has certainly raised points, about UOPO, that are worth pondering and definitely considering. I was flabbergasted at some of the points being raised on this forum.

However, if I was a former/current student of UOPO I would perhaps feel very wounded by some of the satirical comments, rather fact or opinion, that have been posted on this ROR website.

Although I am a graduate of UCLA I noticed that some of the students at UOPO online grammar and punctuation are much better than mine. Kudos... chin up! I know that we all get mocked-- but if you are intelligent it doesn't matter what school you attend your intelligence will persevere. I promise... Honestly, I was accepted into UCLA by over studying because I lacked the intelligence that many students have... For every one hour of their study I had to do three. I always made people laugh but not on purpose. Listen, so to speak, it is your dedication and hard-work that is going to shine through to perspective employers. Don't get me wrong-- you may have to send quite a few resumes in to perspective employers just like all of us-- I promise... it is your determination that will see you through even if you are a graduate of UOPO. It doesn't matter if your are an average student graduating from ANY university-- we all have to start at the bottom-- experience is the dominant factor when it comes to great jobs and high salaries, not that degrees are not important, but experience will take you to the top. On the other hand, I think that it is wise to use the information about UOPO accordingly. For example, I would not suggest someone who read this report and do the research on UOPO to go and enroll.

What I am merely suggesting is that if you have already graduated from UOPO or are soon to graduate is that you "keep your head up" and make the best of the education that you received. Don't give up... if this is any consolation some of my colleagues have a degree from UOPO. I am a high school teacher and I am not the smartest but I am a hard-worker and I just wanted to encourage those that might feel saddened by this information. Just make the best of what you have by letting the knowledge shine through and work for you... Chin up...

By the way, we are discussing education here so please don't be shocked if someone insults your grammar or ability to punctuate accurately. In defense of myself, English was my greatest challenge in college (LOL) but I did excel in math and science. I did really well in math and science so I must admit to you that although I am an educator (MATH Teacher); English in the form of grammar and punctuation are not my strongest points (LOL). The funny thing is that I am so sensitive about this weak that I would never post anything without first running it through spell check.

I hope "b" comes back I enjoyed him so much. I hope I don't ruin the reputation of UCLA by this super ridiculous truth that I am about to reveal-- but I feel abandoned by "b". I enjoyed him so much...

"b" I know people were cracking on you, so to speak, but some of us really appreciate that you had enough guts to make this report. You might not realize how many people you saved heartache. I hope all is well with you-- PEACE

Tara
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#75 UPDATE Employee

University of Phoenix is not accurately represented

AUTHOR: Eb - (U.S.A.)

I feel that as an employee, I must say something regarding the inaccurate postings made by people who have had either bad experiences or were formerly employed by UOP and have axes to grind.

While it is true that not everyone has a positive experience, most do. There are inept employees that probably do not care about the students or the academic integrity of the institution, but, in a company of this size, that is bound to happen. That does not make it right; but it is a fact. However, there are far more people here that do care about the students and do strive to provide a quality educational experience.

Enrollment counselors are the used car salesmen of the company. They make us all look bad. Every time something negative is said in the press, it involves enrollment. B, I'm sorry, but much of what you have posted is inaccurate. Accreditation is hard to obtain and quite easy to lose. Of course maybe it would be easier to give some credence to your words if they were put together in an intelligent, coherent manner.
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#76 Consumer Comment

VERY EXPENSIVE

AUTHOR: Jonid - (U.S.A.)

Those who are paying for their own education in the hope of advancing in a chosen profession should be the MOST concerned about UOP.
A college degree is an investment. It can be examined as such. This can be done with a simple ROI calculation. You divide the returns (INCREASED earnings) by the cost. I am going to use years going forward for this example rather than a percentage. and I am just going to use tuition and not time or lost earnings on the investment side.
Suppose a business degree will give you a 5k boost per year in earnings.
If it costs 16k, you will have paid for it in just over 3 years.
If that same degree costs 48k, it will take almost TEN years before you realize any economic benefit from the education.
Does UOP look so good now?
If you don't realize the expected earnings boost, you are really in trouble.
Hey, you can buy a crummy little car for say 10k. it might be a crummy little car, but if it gets you where you want to go you can be perfectly happy with it and it may have been a good choice. But if you pay 50k for that crummy little car, that you could have got down the street for 10k, you are just a dumb ass.
Joni
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#77 Consumer Comment

k

AUTHOR: Ktoll9 - (U.S.A.)

I agree with "T". If UOP was really that bad then why do so many companies approve them on their list of colleges. The military even suggests them, for goodness sake.

Most employers don't look at where you went to college when they hire you, they look at whether or, not you had the motivation to attend and finish the classes. Unless you are going to be a lawyer or, doctor or, similar professional then most people don't care where you went; all they care about is your work ethic and motivation. Otherwise, most would not be employed at all. Who cares where the degree is from? Do you show up for work? Do you do your job knowledgeably? Did you do the classwork? Or, do you just do the bare minimum at work, show up late constantly and turn everything in incomplete?

There are a lot of people out there that have gone to major Universities right now that only brag about where that little piece of paper came from instead of doing their job and doing it right. I don't want to hear about how much Mommy and Daddy spent on you education if you aren't going to use it. Most people going to an on-line college don't have "mommy & daddy" to sponge off of and have to work for a living. They don't have the time to sit on their butts all day and boohoo over they were screwed by life.

This thread is just a bunch of sour grapes that can't hack the on-line learning environment.
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#78 Consumer Comment

I'm Attending This University Now

AUTHOR: Missyoudontknowwho - (U.S.A.)

I have took two classes and was dropped from one, the school will not reopen for me to speak with someone until DEC 1 I want to withdraw from the school itself, is it a fee. Will they maske me pay for classes that I havent started yet, in the policies and procedures menu it say withdraw before u start the class or later. The classes arent posted I havent accessed them, I need info on withdrawing. Will i have any future charges the classes I had accessed are paid for. there is nothing else I told the if anymore unexpected charges come up I will contact federal I'm just not going to post and be depressed I will send in all the emails that I received from them and statements. to the state, Federal and government I'm not going to be caught in this trap. I'm not getting in debt for nothing.
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#79 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Some final notes

AUTHOR: Bdbyace28 - (U.S.A.)

Wow! PAP seems to be one sold sucker. After reading the "back and forth" commentary i ask why would anyone entertain his brainwashed opinions. "B", you sound like a person that cares about the big picture and should not waste your time with small minded people like him. The guy that sat next to me in class that stopped at the bar or smoked a "doobie" before class graduated with a 3.8. So obviously there is no merit in his self validating statements and rambling about the minimum criteria that UOP meets to obtain these accreditations. Just because they can meet the minimum requirements to get by with accreditataion, doesn't mean we need to be thrown their names and addresses by someone desperately trying to give value to their over-priced degree. Just feel safe in knwoing that "PAP" will never be competition in the job force for someone like yourself. I think of UOP like McDonald's. Just because they are on every street corner and can offer a similar products to quality restaurants doesn't make them quality or healthy. Oh yeah, I'm sure they are licensed and approved to conduct business and sell food. So this argument has little merit. So let's let PAP stay in his fog so he can continue managing his branch of McDonald's with his "degree" from UOP.
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#80 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Some final notes

AUTHOR: Bdbyace28 - (U.S.A.)

Wow! PAP seems to be one sold sucker. After reading the "back and forth" commentary i ask why would anyone entertain his brainwashed opinions. "B", you sound like a person that cares about the big picture and should not waste your time with small minded people like him. The guy that sat next to me in class that stopped at the bar or smoked a "doobie" before class graduated with a 3.8. So obviously there is no merit in his self validating statements and rambling about the minimum criteria that UOP meets to obtain these accreditations. Just because they can meet the minimum requirements to get by with accreditataion, doesn't mean we need to be thrown their names and addresses by someone desperately trying to give value to their over-priced degree. Just feel safe in knwoing that "PAP" will never be competition in the job force for someone like yourself. I think of UOP like McDonald's. Just because they are on every street corner and can offer a similar products to quality restaurants doesn't make them quality or healthy. Oh yeah, I'm sure they are licensed and approved to conduct business and sell food. So this argument has little merit. So let's let PAP stay in his fog so he can continue managing his branch of McDonald's with his "degree" from UOP.
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#81 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Some final notes

AUTHOR: Bdbyace28 - (U.S.A.)

Wow! PAP seems to be one sold sucker. After reading the "back and forth" commentary i ask why would anyone entertain his brainwashed opinions. "B", you sound like a person that cares about the big picture and should not waste your time with small minded people like him. The guy that sat next to me in class that stopped at the bar or smoked a "doobie" before class graduated with a 3.8. So obviously there is no merit in his self validating statements and rambling about the minimum criteria that UOP meets to obtain these accreditations. Just because they can meet the minimum requirements to get by with accreditataion, doesn't mean we need to be thrown their names and addresses by someone desperately trying to give value to their over-priced degree. Just feel safe in knwoing that "PAP" will never be competition in the job force for someone like yourself. I think of UOP like McDonald's. Just because they are on every street corner and can offer a similar products to quality restaurants doesn't make them quality or healthy. Oh yeah, I'm sure they are licensed and approved to conduct business and sell food. So this argument has little merit. So let's let PAP stay in his fog so he can continue managing his branch of McDonald's with his "degree" from UOP.
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#82 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Some final notes

AUTHOR: Bdbyace28 - (U.S.A.)

Wow! PAP seems to be one sold sucker. After reading the "back and forth" commentary i ask why would anyone entertain his brainwashed opinions. "B", you sound like a person that cares about the big picture and should not waste your time with small minded people like him. The guy that sat next to me in class that stopped at the bar or smoked a "doobie" before class graduated with a 3.8. So obviously there is no merit in his self validating statements and rambling about the minimum criteria that UOP meets to obtain these accreditations. Just because they can meet the minimum requirements to get by with accreditataion, doesn't mean we need to be thrown their names and addresses by someone desperately trying to give value to their over-priced degree. Just feel safe in knwoing that "PAP" will never be competition in the job force for someone like yourself. I think of UOP like McDonald's. Just because they are on every street corner and can offer a similar products to quality restaurants doesn't make them quality or healthy. Oh yeah, I'm sure they are licensed and approved to conduct business and sell food. So this argument has little merit. So let's let PAP stay in his fog so he can continue managing his branch of McDonald's with his "degree" from UOP.
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#83 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Some thought regarding both sides of this coin

AUTHOR: Bdbyace28 - (U.S.A.)

I read the main report on this matter and can understand the frustration felt by "B". I too worked there and started taking classes with this "school". First, I would like to say that the responder named "PAP" is incorrect in saying that Harvard is accredited by the same organization. This is what I heard from many employees while working there and it is false and comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. To open minded individuals, please look closely at all of the comments made on this matter, some show severe bias and some have merit. The degrees offered by the school are proven to offer 50% of the actual education which was published after extensive research by a professor I had in the past. He had researched 100 proprietary education organizations and found that most schools in this category were aggregiously low on the amount curriculum offered and that the standard fro graduation was far less than traditional schools. This is not something that can be easily disputed since the research was conducted without specific bias and did not attempt to single out and particular University.
"B", you are fighting an up-hill battle. The kind of people that create an institution like UOP are what corporate America is built on. Many of the issues that American economics are having stem from the tactics used by these executives. The sad part is that these executives move from companies like UOP and pollute other institutions and industries with their "at any cost" mentallity. These executives are self serving and care very little about the long term affects of their actions.
For example, I now work for a smaller private school that held a strong reputation in academic excellence that has been recently compromised by the UOP mentality. Just to reinforce the acceptance of this practice, the ex-UOP executive that has moved to my new school was sued for a variety of unethical business practices and was promoted instantly to the top executive position within the company and has further lowered the reputation and quality of the degrees offered.
The fact is that until these unethical executives are exposed and forced to change, nothing will change.
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#84 Consumer Suggestion

Online Learning is not for Everyone - UOP is an Excellent School

AUTHOR: Onlineeducation - (U.S.A.)

I have been in attendance at UOP for a few years and will graduate in a few months. I have also attended brick and mortar colleges and have experienced success at both. Over time I have learned that there are simply two sides to every story, and then there is the truth. I cannot comment on B's allegations of corporate behaviors at Apollo, but I can tell you it has never been my experience to be pressured by any employee of UOP. It is clear to me that B is simply a disgruntled employee who doesn't have the courage to post his real name to allegations which are likely untrue. B is doing a disservice to himself and future potential graduates of UOP and other online colleges by casting Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) without a single ounce of credibility.

Apollo is a for profit college designed to provide a quality education for working professionals. It is true that a UOP degree may not compare to one from Harvard, Stanford or many other fine 4-year brick and mortar schools. It is also true that attending one of those fine colleges is generally impossible for most working adults with a family.

Let me address specifically some of B's points:

B: Yes, advisors are trained to lie and manipulate. I did this training myself they call it the AMOPS process. It is a technique used to manipulate leads into buying a product.

A: So you are basically saying the every single advisor at UOP has no integrity, work ethic or moral compass. I highly doubt it. If my boss asked me to do something unethical, illegal, etc., I would quit. In your own word you were one of their top performers. If everything you say is true, then you lied to hundreds of students. So that would basically make you a liar. Why should I believe what you say now?

B: Yes, advisors are paid off of the number of enrollments. It's called the Matrix; they changed it in 2004 to look more in line with requirements of the DOE. This led to a record number of pay decreases across the board, a record turnover rate for employees, and a mass exodus of their top advisors.

A: Yes, I believe it has been established that UOP was not in line with some of the methods they used to stimulate enrollment. They have discontinued this practice and it is no longer an issue. UOP isn't perfect and I can't blame them for developing employee programs which actually gave the employee incentives for success.

B: No, the degree is not looked upon as being high quality. I attended the ground campus with 2 managers from Intel here in AZ and they showed me a memo that went out to their managers stating that they are no longer allowed to hire graduates of the BSIT program at UOP.

A: Yes, this is true. Good thing most of the people reading this have no desire or plans of working for Intel. It is important to note that Intel's decision also eliminated hundreds of other colleges. In fact, The giant chipmaker now will pay for classes only at business and engineering schools with blue-ribbon accreditation. Blue-ribbon accreditation is only provided by the AACSB. UOP is accredited by the ACBSP.

B: No, you will never be cleared by the collections department.

A: This is simply ridiculous and undeserving of an intelligent response.

B: Yes, EAs will tell potential student that student loans do not need to be paid back.
A: Really? This would be illegal; having knowledge of this makes you an accessory to a federal crime. So why would I believe you.

B: Yes, the CEO once said that he wanted to be the Wal-Mart of education. Obviously without the low pricing.

A: Good for the CEO. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be the biggest education institution in the world.

B: No, the cost of tuition increase has nothing to do with expenses; it has to do with showing income on the books.

A: Yes, the cost of tuition has to do with maximizing profit. They are a for profit school.

B: Yes, there is a promotion every month.

A: Sounds like good business model to me.

B: Yes, you should select your own lender and choose to have the funds distributed to you, even if that means you have to wait to start and pay for the first class out of pocket.

A: My lender has sent all payments directly to UOP. I have never had an issue and have received refunds when appropriate.

B: No the people who defend this place have no clue what they are talking about.

A: Yet another ridiculous comment and undeserving of an intelligent response.

Online learning is clearly not for everyone. It can be very challenging at times and my experience has been that it is far more challenging then brick and mortar schools. Lower division classes at all colleges can be very irritating due to the tire kicker students who aren't really cut out for college. Yes, there are many students who have enrolled at UOP, signed up for student loans, didn't do the course work and ended up getting a failing grade and possibly a bill from the University. Yes, if you owe the University money, they will not release your grades.

If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all. There is more credibility in your message if you post both the good and the bad. If you contend to have been a valued employee, who participated in violations of federal law and lied to studentshow are you better? You should be ashamed of yourself and you should have reported unethical or unlawful behaviors to the appropriate authorities.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

If you continue to do what you have always done, you will always get what you have always gotten.
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#85 Consumer Comment

Gina, A Typical UOP graduate student.

AUTHOR: Jonid - (U.S.A.)

I don't get it Gina, just why are you annoyed at B? He is only trying to warn people about problems at UOP.
You of course are a very good demonstration of those problems. Let's go through your rebuttal point by point.
1. You state that B is an employee and has an MBA. First off, he states he WAS an employee, and the rest of your point is? Go ahead, help me out, give me a clue as to the hidden accusation I assume this statement contains.
2. B has been doing this for years. He isn't writing academic papers, but even so, I really don't notice a problem with his spelling or grammar. This is contrary to your second to last sentence, "your" is possessive, "you're" would have been correct. More to the point, at least I can figure out what B is writing about, with you I am having a tough time.
3. As a grad student at UOP you know you don't have professors, you have facilitators. So, is your point that the school really does suck, because of a lack of quality, no profs and high cost? If so, why attack B?
4. UOP gave him the degree, why would they question it? Or is your point that anyone who questions the quality of the UOP degree should have it revoked? That's a little scary Gina. Just think about it, whoops, you're a UOP grad student, that might be tough.
There you have it. A UOP grad student, with a four point attack on B, and the points make no sense. Welcome to discussion groups.
Hey Gina, just curious, what advanced degree are you pursuing? I'll bet it is education, huh? Am I right, or am I right?
Joni
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#86 Consumer Comment

My Response

AUTHOR: Gina - (U.S.A.)

To The Employee:
Yes, I am a graduate student with the UOP. Now my rebuttal.

1. You state you are "an employee" with a "graduate degree, MBA."

2. How can you even begin to call individuals "morons" when you cannot spell or utilize spell check. Besides, are you not a "graduate student?"

3. The treatment that I have received from financial aid and the "professors" is rather questionable. I have spent over 30,000 for my degree and the education that I have received is not of "quality."

4. You need a course or two in PR. I would hope the University of Phoenix would investigate your questionable degree and the attack of those who do question the University.

Shame, shame on you for your are lacking in a "quality education" if you indeed even have one. Shame, shame on you for attempting to "even" represent the UOP.
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#87 Consumer Comment

UOP Student

AUTHOR: Ashton - (U.S.A.)

UOP STUDENT
Completed degree course qualifications August 2008
I am so glad I stumbled on this sight and the UOP discussion
I would love to talk more to 'B' the originator of this discussion
I also would love to build a case against UOP for frauding me out of money because I know currently they are trying to cheat me out of money out of my pocket and while this started because I had a zero balance after my student loans and they were going to actually owe me money, six months later here I am still fighting with them and I keep going up the chain, though technically I haven't made it that far up I will eventually. Every month that this is still being in question I get bill that go up exactly $200 and they keep telling me to disregard them and not even a week later I get a threat letter from them basically telling me to pay in full within a week or else. Now the letters are up to $1000.00 but they are telling me by phone or email one day it's 5 hundred something and the next it's seven hundred something. After 3 months I was pissed off and I let them know I was not going to be given the run around. I have been unemployed for one year due to a manager job lay off at an urgent care that was no fault due to my own-economic reasons-even have a recommendation letter from the physican owners stating that and what a great employee and asset I am. I have outstanding background in medical, transfered to UOP because my friend talked me into transfering with her to the polaris location in Columbus, OH. in Dec. 2005. Now that I am finished, no one has laughed at me yet but I can't even get an interview for them to laugh at me. How shitty is that. The financial advisors are noncompationate, liers, and I could go on and on. They do nothing but talk circles, you would not believe the shit they have said to me even if I told you.

My husband wants me to stop talking to them because he says I am waisting my breath and I should just contact an attorney and channel 10 and 6 on your side to get the media involved. Now that I have read what is listed on here for the past 2 hours or so I am thinking he's right. My education at UOP was sometimes a joke, though I did meet some very intelligent instructors a couple were dumber than I and they were suppose to be teaching me. I did learn quite a bit during my time there, mostly because I wanted to learn. As stated in some previous statements some people that were there did not belong, but on the other hand maybe I was not the one who belonged there and is was a college for the less intelligent. Just cracking a joke, don't anyone go and take that personal. I received A's a few times when I know my work was less than that but, there were times that I received lower grades than the grade that I felt I deserved. I have already informed financial advisor (my last one of probably 20 in the past 2.5yrs) Ruthelle (I can get last names if necessary)and manager financial advisor Dietra (which if I live in Columbus, OH and attend their campus in Columbus why are all of my advisors in Phoenix, AZ?)that I would never again attend UOP and told them about all of the bad experience everyone else made me aware of my first 1.5 years at the school and because I did not have any large out of control problems like they did I brushed it off and they would tell me wait until it's time for you to graduate you'll understand then.

I told both of those finance assholes that I now see their frustrations and wished that I had stayed at Devry online and their school was the biggest mistake that I had ever made and I would not be attending their master's program I was going to take my next $50,000 to another school. Now I can only hope that I can get into another college and not have to backtrack any for a degree I already completed. I should post some of the emails that have went on between finance dept and myself it would amaze you, really. I have never seen such poor customer service skills. I was very civil and patient until 2 months ago and then I snapped, I can't take their lies and deceat anymore. How do you fight a billion dollar company when you can't even get a job. They won't even talk to me on the phone anymore because they can't answer my questions directly and I force them to answer directly because I don't except their circle talk so instead I get a half assed email that is one or two lines.

All I want is my peice of paper that apparently isn't going to get me far and it hasn't done shit for me yet because I have been searching for a job for a year and I have been completely finished for 6 months now. Would someone with a criminal/law background care to share some advise. I don't care to have any comments about me being disgruntle, angry, bitter, and so forth because though I may be I have every right to be when someone is trying to take money from me, treatining me, and holding my degree basically for ransum.
Ashton
Columbus, OH
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#88 Consumer Comment

Think About It

AUTHOR: T - (U.S.A.)

I have attended UOP for a few classes, and began to wonder if I was getting what I paid for. After doing some research, and reading many of the post on this site, here is my opinion of UOP, and distance learning as a whole.

No large organization is perfect; many companies have problems with their finances, HR, and staffing departments.

Sure, I encountered some instructors who I felt were at UOP just to get a pay check, and others who really wanted to teach. Think about the people you work with, not all are perfect.

The learning teams are not perfect, there is always someone who does not pull his/her share of the work, again, think about your current work environment. I believe you get what you put into it.

Not all distance learning institutions are without fault. Use the search bar on this site, plug in another distance learning university, and see what comes up. From my research I have found similar complaints with all of them.

I had some trouble with billing, and it did take some time to get it corrected, but the point is, I stood firm, and got it corrected.

I have seen much about UOP not being an accredited university; many of you say the degree is not worth the paper it is printed on. Then, I had to ask myself, if that is true, why would my company, (We are the worlds largest in what we do) have a direct billing option to an institution that was fraudulent? Just does not make any sense.

Distance learning is not with out faults, and is not for everyone. Do some research before you invest; ask tough questions, then, make a decision.
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#89 UPDATE Employee

Is everyone taking crazy pills!

AUTHOR: U All Are Wrong - (U.S.A.)

EVERY school faces these charges at one time or another. Every school. You do not become the largest university, accredited I might add, in the US by being unethical or corrupt. When you do so, you lose accreditation from the government from Title IV funding. This is what makes schools like the university of phoenix successfull on top of their degree programs. In regards to credibilty, the univeristy of phoenix has the most number of "direct bill" corporations of any univesity. Verizon, Lockheed Martin, the list goes on and on, just to name a couple. I've seen previous comments from people who claim to have been "top" reps. If they were top reps they would have been making so much money and been enjoying their efforts and being proud of their work that they would never have left. Everyone thinks they were a top rep, if they were the would not have left. I have been a top rep since day one, five years plus now. Anyway, it is all moot, those of us who are achievers will do well and prosper for years to come, while helping people achieve their dreams. The rest of you will gripe and complain as I expect, you have through out your miserable careers and lives! Good luck losers!!!
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#90 Consumer Comment

Message to B..I Love You! I hope you still read the posts

AUTHOR: Dana - (U.S.A.)

Hi B,
Thank You, thank you, thank you, thank you! I am a new student of Uop on-line at first I was really excited and I thought I did my homework I was soo wrong first of I did not even know this site existed until today. It took me about a year to decide to enroll the EA was very helpful and I felt appreciated along with the FA and AD, well I must have been looking for someone to appreciate me because I jumped right into that band wagon and I was hyped.

I started in April 2008 I was really excited I should have listened to my gut feeling when I seen people post messages that half of them could not spell, or even understand the question that was being asked. I thought wow how did they get in here? well needless to say I kept on going and I was noticing things like grades just being handed out on a silver platter, so I did an experiment and completely did an assignment all wrong I put all the wrong answers on every single question and still got an A. I was really pissed off then cause I knew then I was just wasting my time and money.

So now it is Sept. and I was thinking I would be receiving the other disbursement of my Pell Grant, when trying to contact my FA she has not even wrote or called back to inform me if I was getting anymore or not. Back in April I got 2000. from my pell grant plus the tuition had been paid through financial aid so I did not think anything of it until Sept 8 I started asking questions and no one will answer me. All I am told is re-apply so like a dummy I did. Then I find this site and my blood ran hot then cold I am currently in my 3rd block I am going to finish this block and then withdraw, so I want to thank you so very much for all the information your posts has been convinced and everyone Else's that I need to run and run fast before it is too late or thousands of dollars in debt.


I do have a question I haven't yelled or screamed at anyone yet. I want to know how do you find out how much your pell grant was? I mean I never got any letters or anything on how much the total was, and what is the best way to leave there without them holding up my transcripts so I can attend another school? or making me pay money back?


Thank you again

PS I Love you!
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#91 Consumer Comment

Help

AUTHOR: Kenrogers - (U.S.A.)

I read what you wrote, and I am going throug a dilemma with them. I am a high school counselor and met Valissa Armistead the MI enrolmment counselor in Grand Rapids while she was trying to recruit students. At the time I was not intereted, but she would call at least once a week. I finally took the bait, BUT I asked her.........these questions:

I never took online classes, if I do not like can I cancel wit no reprocussions?
(Of course you can Mr. rogers, you have to let us know in the second week of your online class, and complete the class)

NOT TRUE

Then I asked, I am oving to New York in 2011 for a job at the epartment of Labor in Cassadagga New York.
(No problem she siad)

NOT TRUE - NEW YORK doesnt accept their degrees

So, I do not car if it is on my credit report I filed bankrupcy this year bcause o fmediucal bills. Now I have over 40 ulcers in my stomach from their calls and harrassment. They say I owe 1495, and they still have not paud WACHOVIA back.

I only took 2 classes an Wachovia gave them over 4500 dollars, and only gave them back 550.

Can you please tell me what I should do? I filed complaints with:
BBB
Federal Trade Commission
Attorney General
Consumer Reports
MI and US Higher Education

What else?

TY for your tiem
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#92 Consumer Comment

Transfer update

AUTHOR: The Monk - (U.S.A.)

Thank God I am finally out of the Degree sweat shop. The A's were nice, but I could not in good conscience continue to pay $1300 to teach myself and have someone tell me if what I taught myself was right or wrong.

I have moved on, but I felt it my civic duty to warn everyone who has a chance and a choice not to stay with UoP or consider going to UoP.

Mark you, I have had great instructors( actually 4) out of 18. UoP is all about Money and everything else is incidental.
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#93 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Where's B Been?

AUTHOR: Uoprulz - (U.S.A.)

B,

Where you at man? Maybe I'm looking at this thread incorrectly but it appears you are nearly on a 6 month hiatus. Gotta say that this is a pretty funny thread. I can't believe that it has lasted for 3 years. Wow! I've enjoyed reading it, well, most of it. Afterall, B can be quite long winded. We'll just say passionate instead of long winded! HAHA! I stand by most things B says about UOPO. I graduated from UOP and worked there. The one thing I did get out of it was entrance into a reputable graduate program. I have moved on from that industry (online education) and I would recommend traditional schooling over online programs, if possible.

It's worth the short term sacrifice than having to defend your degree to potential employers or schools. But, if you must attend an online program, I would stay far from UOP. There are just so many better options now.

Vigenere
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#94 Consumer Comment

No problems in transferring UOP credit or getting accepted into other graduate programs

AUTHOR: Rowland - (U.S.A.)

For those who are concerned that their credits earned from University of Phoenix will not transfer to other universities or academic programs, let me put your mind at ease.

At one point, I was highly dissatisfied with my educational experience at UOP - not due to the instructors or quality of the coursework, but due to the teamwork model they have integrated into their programs (but that is another story).

I applied to all three of Arizona's state schools - UofA, ASU, and NAU - all of which are highly credible universities. I live in Tucson, so I spoke to a UA academic adviser in person. He initially made a face at me when I showed him my unofficial transcript for UOP, but confirmed that all of the courses that I had taken would be transferable to the UofA. Similarly, ASU and NAU both accepted all of my UOP credits, no questions asked. True, some did not transfer directly into the requirements for my major (really this was only an issue for the UA) but this was due to slight variations in the curriculum. And let me emphasize the word "slight." The education I have received through my state's school was no better than what I received from the UOP.

Amusingly, UA's Eller School of Management does like to place itself on a pedestal and play Mother Superior when it comes to their program vs UOP's. However, Eller's educational model is based on UOP's - learning cohorts and learning teams are a big part of Eller's BS and MBA programs (and yes - UOP came up with this model first). True, you won't be required to take calculus, but as someone who has worked in business administration for the past 10 years, I can tell you I have never needed calculus (or even algebra, for that matter).

I did wind up completing my undergrad (BSBA) through UOP, and it did have much to do with time already invested. I did not see the point of extending my undergrad an extra year in order to take extra classes (such as calculus) to satisfy some other university's requirements. I also eventually wound up with a competent learning team, so many of the teamwork woes were resolved. Overall, once I had a good learning team to work with, the rest of my studies at UOP were enjoyable.

I had no problem getting accepted into two different graduate programs - again, both at highly credible institutions. I am currently in a graduate program through NAU, but am transferring to an online MBA program through University of Liverpool (if you question the credibility of the University of Liverpool, check out its world rankings - ranks higher than the University of Arizona). For those who question the academic quality of online classes - take a few graduate-level courses before passing judgment. I have found these to be much more rigorous than traditional lecture-based classes!

I also have a friend who graduated with a B.S.B.A from UOP in 1999, then went on the get her master's degree from ASU. She was originally enrolled in a program at the UA, but transferred to UOP due to the lack of student support by professors, counselors, and administrators alike. She did not regret her decision to change programs one bit.

Hope this helps some of you in making a decision in regards to your educational options. Best of luck!

Rowland
B.S.B.A received from University of Phoenix May, 2007


PS - Note to B: Looks like you've been stewing over UOP for quite a while. Time to move on!
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#95 Consumer Comment

AACSB-Accredited universities generally do not accept credit from non-AACSB-Accredited...

AUTHOR: Hadri - (U.S.A.)

I filed a ripoff report on July 19th, but just wanted to mention here that I checked with the head of academic affairs at a state university I transferred to from UoP. He stated that AACSB-Accredited universities' "normal" practice is to NOT accept transfer credit from universities with no AACSB accreditation (aka UoP).

However, you can request the university that you are transferring to, to allow you to take upper-division courses that your UoP credit would be considered pre-requisite. If you complete those courses with a passing grade, then your UoP credit MAY be accepted.

So perhaps not all is lost if you are stuck with transfer credits from UoP.
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#96 Consumer Comment

A different prospective

AUTHOR: Honstman - (U.S.A.)

First, I am speaking from a different prospective than someone who obviously has an agenda and contributed to what he claims is fraud until likely fired. I earned my MBA and BSB from UOP and any claims that these degrees are considered less than another degreee from a more traditional school are wildly exaggerated. I am the Director of Operations for a large software solution company and I work with Intel, HP, Autozone, Google, and Microsoft and with the odd exception of Stanford or Harvard Graduate, I have yet to hear any critical comments about the company. In fact we use 3 different templates used in most of the MBA classes for Gap analysis and Problem resolution. My direct supervisor is the VP of Finance and Operations and has an MBA from a local state college and I shared my studies with him each week and he was more than impressed. In fact he was impressed enough to pay for 1/2 of my courses and when I was done I received a promotion to the executive staff. My company is a subsidiary of a fortune 500 company and that company had to review my credentials before approving my Director position- a title I hold with my company and my parent company.

My take is that success in college, any college, depends on what you put into it. I have people that work for me with degrees from UC Berkley, Cal State Fresno, Cal State Sacramento, and many other local traditional colleges that didn't learn half of what I learned at UOP and will never hold the position I hold.

My one criticism of the school is the legitmacy of the GPA. I finished with over a 3.9 and honors but based on the papers and writings of other students, I don't understand how many could have had grades that would have kept them in the program. If in fact UOP is passing students that aren't meeting minimum requirements, than yes, I agree, there is serious concern. That being said, many of the poor paper writers were gone by the 5th or 6th class so I don't know what actually happened.

There is no denying the fact that this school exists to make a profit and there is a conflict of interest when an institution relies fiscally on passing students.

I may be the exception to the rule but I would like to see an actual survey of fortune 500 company and executive recruiters rather than anectdotal comments. My experience has been very positive and I would recommend the college for people in my situations.
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#97 Consumer Comment

Been there Since 2005

AUTHOR: The Monk - (U.S.A.)

I am currently a student at UoP. Started 08/2005 and I am now a 3.93 GPA with 87/120 credits under my belt. (sigh).

I am however on my way out. I have 11 courses to go to finish my "BS" degree. However it will not be be at UoP. This August I will be transferring to another local college. Yes, I know I will lose some credits. That is fine. I would rather spend another 3 months in school and graduate with a reputable degree than finish now with a one that is ridiculed by employers.

I would not encourage my enemy to attend UoP. I might recommend my mother-in-law (joke).

UoP is a money grubbing business and the students' value (education) for their money is the least of their concern.

The most interesting thing about this is that 2 years ago I had a Math teacher pulled me aside and asked me why I am attending UoP. He actually encouraged me to leave. I did not listened then, but I listened last month when a Stats teacher asked me the same thing.

So last Friday, 07/18/08, I drove to a local campus and I was given the necessary instructions on how to transfer. So to all who are lauding UoP, you might have reasons to do so, but the instructors who advised me to leave may know a thing or two more than you do.
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#98 Consumer Comment

AACSB Accreditation

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Back story: I am a student in a Bachelors of Science In Business Administration at University of Phoenix (UoP) I'm in my 2nd calender year and what would be the equivalent of my 3rd academic year and currently hold a 3.96GPA. I've never been employed by the University and speak now only as a student.

It was noted above that University of Phoenix does not have AACSB accreditation. In fact, this seems to be brought up quite often by those who speak ill of University of Phoenix. But, did you know that only 15% of business schools have AACSB? Yeah, only 15%. Some of the requirements set forth by AACSB simply can't be met by a school the size or using the educational model as UoP. Just a guess, but imagine a requirement of a ratio of teachers to students of no more than 400 students per academic year per teacher. This can't be met because UoP class operates year round while state schools only go 9 months. I.E. State school teacher teaches 3 classes with 50 students twice a year. That's 300 students per teacher per year. But a UoP Teacher teaches 20 students per class in 3 classes, 8 times per year. 1 UoP teacher has 480 students per year. So if you only look at yearly totals it appears that UoP teachers have too many students, but in reality, have fewer students per class than the state school. It's just that they operate a longer academic year and shorter, more intensive courses. This of course is just a guess, but I use it to demonstrate my point. You can't judge a school based on accreditation unless you know why or why not it was accredited by a certain accrediting body.

Another example is ITT Technical School. They are nationally accredited, not regionally, because one of the requirements for regional accreditation is all the instructors must have at least a Masters Degree in the field of study in which they are teaching. But what if you wanted to be an electrician for small homes? You need the technical expertise which would be best taught by an instructor with technical experience. A contractor with years of real world experience, not an academic who spent their life reading books. Thus the school employs those with the experience to provide the information they feel is best suited for their students. But because not every instructor has a Masters degree, the school is not afforded regional accreditation. Does this mean the school is bad?

Remember, especially in undergrad study, the information being presented at the small local colleges is the same as the Ivy League schools. What makes the quality of the education good or bad is the quality of the student enrolled. The reason why the "best" schools seem to be the best, is because the only admit the best students. So they produce better graduates, not because the school is better, but because their admissions standards are more strict. If all schools so chose, they could all only admit the "best" students and have the appearance of being a great school. But, then it's likely that very few would ever go to college. A school like UoP which gives everyone the equal opportunity to learn admits students of every caliber, good and bad. How much each student learns depends entirely on the student. Just like at a state school, the student who reads his/her material and pays attention in class will receive a better education than the student who spends every night partying and sleeps in class. It's not the school you go to. The real key to the quality of your education is YOU!
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#99 Consumer Comment

OK.......

AUTHOR: Srt - (U.S.A.)

I have actually sat and read just about every post on here, and now that I've gotten to the end, I have forgotten what the main point was that B was trying to make, thanks to all of these posts that were here and there and everywhere, and a few that were really hard to grasp the points of. Ooops, I ended with a preposition. I did, however, note the many posters who apparently are English teachers and felt the need to bash on a few who had grammatical and/or punctuational (is that a word??? Better get out my dictionary....) errors. Since I may have a touch of ADD, and the fact that so many people got off the subject, this is all I got out of this:

1. B hated his job. It was unethical and he decided to educate the rest of us on how F'ed up UoP really is.

2. There are lots of posters who agree with B, and hate UoP.

3. There are some posters that like UoP and disagree with B.

4. There are some who have not quite grasped the English language.

5. There are some who point out the language and grammatical/punctuational flaws to those who have not quite grasped it (the English language).

6. There are a few who like to compare apples to oranges.

7. There are still fewer that are very proud of their GPA's.

8. UoP stock has plummeted significantly, and UoP has taken a minor beating with negative press and investigations, etc.

Here's my 2 cents: If you don't like it, or it doesn't feel good, don't do it. If you like it, or it feels good, then do it. (as long as you are not hurting anyone else) It's a matter of personal opinion whether or not online education is right for you. I personally need the structure of the "brick and mortar" schools, and I know this about myself. I happen to attend a school in southern AL and that works for me. What bothers me is the fact that while taking a Sociology class during my undergrad, I learned that regardless of accreditation, southern colleges are not the same educational standards that schools in the east or midwest are. I'll have to dig out that book and find the exact information, but boy, here I thought my 3.93 GPA was awesome.....(ok, you KNOW I had to throw in something about my GPA....)

Also, after reading about the high costs of attending UoP, I'm wondering if they aren't getting away with that based on the fact that it is an online program and people from all over the US and world are taking classes so it can be "justified" as "out-of-state" tuition? Anyone know anything about that? Just curious. I hope that question wasn't already answered because I wouldn't want B to move in for the kill! (just kidding....).

Well, this has definitely been an interesting read. And to be honest with you, I was researching the company American Association of Labor and reading bad reviews on them when I came across this one. And that is the joy of ADD. :)
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#100 Consumer Comment

Of Course B is Disgruntled

AUTHOR: Disgruntled - (U.S.A.)

Wouldn't you be disgruntled having to go through the junk "B" did? I've worked for a similar type of company and if you don't get disgruntled you are either part of the problem, an imbecile or both. By definition someone who says negative things about someplace is disgruntled.

I am a disgruntled former continuing ed student there. I took a Math Methods class last year (I needed it to get re-certified as a math teacher at the post-secondary level). It was a horrible joke. First, they did unbelievable stuff with payment that they chalked up to a new IRN assignment system, and sent me bills for the class after I paid in advance on my own and the class ended. The methods class itself was a complete joke. I am embarrassed to say I have profited from it in the way of recertification as a teacher. Luckily I am known as a great teacher and the class was a square filler anyway.

The class was "attended" by complete idiots who posted nonsensical things and replies to other people's nonsensical things...example:

Post 1: I think every kid should learn math at the elementary school level

Reply to Post 1: I totally agree. Math is a good thing to learn.

Instructor comments: Great insights--you both get an A.

It was seriously THAT bad. On our "final project" we had to come up with a complete unit plan with lesson plans, supporting material etc etc. Naively I spent about 60 hours on mine. It was complete with software development, drawings, NCTM standards alignment etc etc. I got an A. The instructors comments? "Nice work". No advice, no sign he had even read it.

We had to post our final projects for everyone in the class to see and comment on. There were one or two quality posts. The others were complete gash written by people who are likely like mr 3.98 GPA. ONE, was plagiarized. lifted entirely, verbatim complete with same fonts, animations everything from a Rice University Math site. No references, no nothing--just lifted verbatim. Instructor comments? "nice work". I turned the person in to the instructor...comments back? None. I made a post in the chat thing for the entire class that said "Nice work. Copied from Rice University website yada yada".

OK, I have it figured out. This year I need 45 more contact hours for a pay raise (a big one at that). UofPee to the rescue! One more joke of a class and I get my pay raise. By the way, a continuing ed class at a real university (like Harvard if they offer them there) is worth the same 45 hours to our school dept.

Unfortunately, I can't go through with it. Not because I have morals--I don't. The UofPee screwed me on billing again, double billing me for this joke of a class, not holding my credit card for 60 days like they said they would and a few other things that made it impossible to keep going. Too bad they are unethical. If they were just a joke I'd take the class. Unfortunately being an unethical joke is over the line even for a scumbag like me.
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#101 Consumer Comment

Of Course B is Disgruntled

AUTHOR: Disgruntled - (U.S.A.)

Wouldn't you be disgruntled having to go through the junk "B" did? I've worked for a similar type of company and if you don't get disgruntled you are either part of the problem, an imbecile or both. By definition someone who says negative things about someplace is disgruntled.

I am a disgruntled former continuing ed student there. I took a Math Methods class last year (I needed it to get re-certified as a math teacher at the post-secondary level). It was a horrible joke. First, they did unbelievable stuff with payment that they chalked up to a new IRN assignment system, and sent me bills for the class after I paid in advance on my own and the class ended. The methods class itself was a complete joke. I am embarrassed to say I have profited from it in the way of recertification as a teacher. Luckily I am known as a great teacher and the class was a square filler anyway.

The class was "attended" by complete idiots who posted nonsensical things and replies to other people's nonsensical things...example:

Post 1: I think every kid should learn math at the elementary school level

Reply to Post 1: I totally agree. Math is a good thing to learn.

Instructor comments: Great insights--you both get an A.

It was seriously THAT bad. On our "final project" we had to come up with a complete unit plan with lesson plans, supporting material etc etc. Naively I spent about 60 hours on mine. It was complete with software development, drawings, NCTM standards alignment etc etc. I got an A. The instructors comments? "Nice work". No advice, no sign he had even read it.

We had to post our final projects for everyone in the class to see and comment on. There were one or two quality posts. The others were complete gash written by people who are likely like mr 3.98 GPA. ONE, was plagiarized. lifted entirely, verbatim complete with same fonts, animations everything from a Rice University Math site. No references, no nothing--just lifted verbatim. Instructor comments? "nice work". I turned the person in to the instructor...comments back? None. I made a post in the chat thing for the entire class that said "Nice work. Copied from Rice University website yada yada".

OK, I have it figured out. This year I need 45 more contact hours for a pay raise (a big one at that). UofPee to the rescue! One more joke of a class and I get my pay raise. By the way, a continuing ed class at a real university (like Harvard if they offer them there) is worth the same 45 hours to our school dept.

Unfortunately, I can't go through with it. Not because I have morals--I don't. The UofPee screwed me on billing again, double billing me for this joke of a class, not holding my credit card for 60 days like they said they would and a few other things that made it impossible to keep going. Too bad they are unethical. If they were just a joke I'd take the class. Unfortunately being an unethical joke is over the line even for a scumbag like me.
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#102 Consumer Comment

Of Course B is Disgruntled

AUTHOR: Disgruntled - (U.S.A.)

Wouldn't you be disgruntled having to go through the junk "B" did? I've worked for a similar type of company and if you don't get disgruntled you are either part of the problem, an imbecile or both. By definition someone who says negative things about someplace is disgruntled.

I am a disgruntled former continuing ed student there. I took a Math Methods class last year (I needed it to get re-certified as a math teacher at the post-secondary level). It was a horrible joke. First, they did unbelievable stuff with payment that they chalked up to a new IRN assignment system, and sent me bills for the class after I paid in advance on my own and the class ended. The methods class itself was a complete joke. I am embarrassed to say I have profited from it in the way of recertification as a teacher. Luckily I am known as a great teacher and the class was a square filler anyway.

The class was "attended" by complete idiots who posted nonsensical things and replies to other people's nonsensical things...example:

Post 1: I think every kid should learn math at the elementary school level

Reply to Post 1: I totally agree. Math is a good thing to learn.

Instructor comments: Great insights--you both get an A.

It was seriously THAT bad. On our "final project" we had to come up with a complete unit plan with lesson plans, supporting material etc etc. Naively I spent about 60 hours on mine. It was complete with software development, drawings, NCTM standards alignment etc etc. I got an A. The instructors comments? "Nice work". No advice, no sign he had even read it.

We had to post our final projects for everyone in the class to see and comment on. There were one or two quality posts. The others were complete gash written by people who are likely like mr 3.98 GPA. ONE, was plagiarized. lifted entirely, verbatim complete with same fonts, animations everything from a Rice University Math site. No references, no nothing--just lifted verbatim. Instructor comments? "nice work". I turned the person in to the instructor...comments back? None. I made a post in the chat thing for the entire class that said "Nice work. Copied from Rice University website yada yada".

OK, I have it figured out. This year I need 45 more contact hours for a pay raise (a big one at that). UofPee to the rescue! One more joke of a class and I get my pay raise. By the way, a continuing ed class at a real university (like Harvard if they offer them there) is worth the same 45 hours to our school dept.

Unfortunately, I can't go through with it. Not because I have morals--I don't. The UofPee screwed me on billing again, double billing me for this joke of a class, not holding my credit card for 60 days like they said they would and a few other things that made it impossible to keep going. Too bad they are unethical. If they were just a joke I'd take the class. Unfortunately being an unethical joke is over the line even for a scumbag like me.
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#103 Consumer Comment

Of Course B is Disgruntled

AUTHOR: Disgruntled - (U.S.A.)

Wouldn't you be disgruntled having to go through the junk "B" did? I've worked for a similar type of company and if you don't get disgruntled you are either part of the problem, an imbecile or both. By definition someone who says negative things about someplace is disgruntled.

I am a disgruntled former continuing ed student there. I took a Math Methods class last year (I needed it to get re-certified as a math teacher at the post-secondary level). It was a horrible joke. First, they did unbelievable stuff with payment that they chalked up to a new IRN assignment system, and sent me bills for the class after I paid in advance on my own and the class ended. The methods class itself was a complete joke. I am embarrassed to say I have profited from it in the way of recertification as a teacher. Luckily I am known as a great teacher and the class was a square filler anyway.

The class was "attended" by complete idiots who posted nonsensical things and replies to other people's nonsensical things...example:

Post 1: I think every kid should learn math at the elementary school level

Reply to Post 1: I totally agree. Math is a good thing to learn.

Instructor comments: Great insights--you both get an A.

It was seriously THAT bad. On our "final project" we had to come up with a complete unit plan with lesson plans, supporting material etc etc. Naively I spent about 60 hours on mine. It was complete with software development, drawings, NCTM standards alignment etc etc. I got an A. The instructors comments? "Nice work". No advice, no sign he had even read it.

We had to post our final projects for everyone in the class to see and comment on. There were one or two quality posts. The others were complete gash written by people who are likely like mr 3.98 GPA. ONE, was plagiarized. lifted entirely, verbatim complete with same fonts, animations everything from a Rice University Math site. No references, no nothing--just lifted verbatim. Instructor comments? "nice work". I turned the person in to the instructor...comments back? None. I made a post in the chat thing for the entire class that said "Nice work. Copied from Rice University website yada yada".

OK, I have it figured out. This year I need 45 more contact hours for a pay raise (a big one at that). UofPee to the rescue! One more joke of a class and I get my pay raise. By the way, a continuing ed class at a real university (like Harvard if they offer them there) is worth the same 45 hours to our school dept.

Unfortunately, I can't go through with it. Not because I have morals--I don't. The UofPee screwed me on billing again, double billing me for this joke of a class, not holding my credit card for 60 days like they said they would and a few other things that made it impossible to keep going. Too bad they are unethical. If they were just a joke I'd take the class. Unfortunately being an unethical joke is over the line even for a scumbag like me.
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#104 Consumer Comment

Two Cents

AUTHOR: Ev - (U.S.A.)

This post is not directed at anyone...it is simply information on my experience. Please consider it to be neutral because after reading all of the information on this site I'm not really sure how I feel. So, B - please don't slaughter me after you read this. I am actually a decently intelligent and successful HR professional who also holds an SPHR certification (you can't really be stupid and pass that certification exam). Ok...here goes nothing.

I do have an MBA in HR Management from UOP online. I "graduated" in October of 2006. I'd like to share a few things:

*I have yet to meet a business person who has winced at my degree - just want to get that out there. Oh, and I am speaking about business people at Fortune 500 organizations in positions at the Director level and above.

*I received my BS from Rutgers, The State University of NJ...A decent school back in my day. No, I'm not going to date myself online. LOL. Well, my graduating GPA overall was a 3.43 (a 3.89 in my major which was management). I will tell you that I hated the entire experience. I didn't think it was difficult and I slacked quite a bit especially my freshman year (party party party) - which is why my overall GPA wasn't higher. I had "professors" who literally read from the text book to the class. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that was their style of "teaching." I was horrified. There were students in the classrooms who did NOTHING. They never participated in class, when we had team assignments they contributed nothing, and some were actually disruptive in certain classes. However, they were good test-takers. This is what earned them their 4.0 grades - the fact that they could memorize information then regurgitate it on a test. I - on the other hand - was not that fortunate. I stink at taking exams...BIG-TIME. What I am really good at is taking information, researching it further, then analyzing it and drawing some reasonable conclusion about it. This is what made the UOP environment good for me. Just for me...maybe not for others.

*A little more about ground schools...yes, like Rutgers. I also had "professors" who could barely speak English. My marketing professor was from another country and his accent was SOOOO thick I could barely understand him. That cost me my 4.0, because when I asked him to repeat himself in class he would get visibly agitated - worse, he wouldn't repeat himself. I missed out on so much information in that class. I ended up reading the text book three times cover to cover...but of course - because I missed so much of what he was allegedly saying in class - I only managed to get a C on the final. When I complained about this "professor" to the Dean...I was basically told, "too bad, get over it, you'll make up the grade since you are such a smart and good student." No lie people. This is what I was told. So, life went on, I graduated and missed honors due to my own doing (too much partying my freshman year), my poor test-taking ability, and the piss-poor quality of a lot of the so-called professors. A 3.43 is not bad right? I can't be called stupid right? Considering I had a 1.8 my freshman year due to spending more time on the consumption of adult beverages instead of studying. Come on, you know you did it too. LOL.

What's the point you might be asking? Well, compared to the quality of teachers, facilitators, whatever you want to call them at UOP...I didn't see much of a difference. Half of the instructors at UOP sucked and the other half were excellent. I had the same exact experience at Rutgers. Oh, and let's not forget about the "professors" who played favorites. That's always a classic.

As far as the students are concerned...at least when I complained about the lack of participation on a team at UOP - something was done about it. Trust me...yes, I ratted them out COLD!!

When I had poor instructors online - because of my work ethic - I still produced quality papers and assignments. How do I know they were quality? LOL LOL LOL...because I read some of the other student's work...that's how. LOL LOL...sorry but it was too funny some of the work they actually submitted...pathetic.

Anyway, I wanted people to read about my experience in both environments. Yes, UOP is not perfect...NO B, I'm not defending them I swear!!! All I'm saying is that my experience at UOP was just like my experience at a fully accredited ground school. No, I didn't research Rutgers' credentials...I am assuming. Sue me. BTW...this is humor not sarcasm. It's not intended to offend anyone.

I want people to know that yes, they should stay away from schools that engage in proven unethical practices. You know what...make your own decisions folks. Some are not bothered by institutions such as UOP...others are. To each his own. Do your research, talk to people - obviously B and others in this forum have had very bad experiences...while some - yes, I will admit like me - have had neutral or positive experiences. Make your own informed and educated decision. If you are currently in the middle of a program and it's going well for you, well then finish it and give it your all.

Will I go back to UOP for my doctorate? Honestly? Probably not. I do need the flexibility of online learning...but I do take issue with some of the information in the news media about the Apollo organization as a whole.

So, ground schools, online schools, UOP specifically...as I stated before: do your research and make your own informed decision...but the one thing I will say here...stop being nasty to each other. There really is no reason to insult one another's intelligence or motives. We don't know each other - even is some of us assume we do...we don't really know 100% who is who on this site unless you state your name here. Stay focused on the issues that are being raised..not on who is raising them or why. All of the issues raised here can be googled online and verified or not. Calling each other names, accusing folks of being disgruntled ex-employees, and insulting people's intelligence is just not nice - further, it really distracts us all from what - in the end - is some good information - accurate or not - it's up to each one of us to verify what is posted in these forums.

Good day, best of luck and God Bless you all. Elizabeth.

PS..wow, was this the longest "two cents" on the planet or what? LOL LOL LOL.
Laugh, it increases your life expectancy.
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#105 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I see both sides...

AUTHOR: I Detest Scammers - (U.S.A.)

I've been reading this for a while now and for the most part I agree but there are some instances where I have to say that the student or potential student was very much at fault. Every student completes a FAW...on that faw are about 3 screens that break down everything about your financial aid eligibility and how you would become ineligible...When I worked at UOP I constantly told students to read and understand that when you fail or drop, you owe the school because financial aid will not cover it.

I don't know but it seems common sense to contact the school you want to transfer to and ask them if they accept a certain schools credits. If nothing else, I'd contact the school I wanted to transfer credits to just because it is right from the horses mouth...I have a hard time blaming the school or admission staff for credits not transferring...

Also..BEWARE some admissions rep's will log into class for studnets, the good thing is that this is extremely frowned upon and if caught you WILL be terminated and the student given recourse, but the downside is that it is extremely hard to prove such a thing...

I say if you want the real deal financially and academically, blow off your admissions rep and talk right to a financial aid advisor, they will keep it 100% real and uncut. Want to know why..because they don't want you ruining theit matrix. They get reviewed on defaulted students, studnets failing and students going into collections, more students decide against going to UOP while on that financial aid welcome call.

I was fortunate and I worked at a very very ethical and caring campus. My campus director cared A GREAT DEAL about the success of the studnets enrolled and so did the director.

I too think the school is expensive..but then again, so are prada shoes...if it is too costly, go somewhere else.

if what is written here is 100% true, things looked rough back in 2004/2005...I can't say that my tenure was that bad, I received a hefty raise after my first review and the decrease is not given unless you underenroll dramatically. If you do the minimum you won't receive a decrease, heck I've seen employees miss meets by a landslide and still not suffer a decrease. BUT I do see tale of yester years because some of the more tenured EC's make a nice chunk of change. I'm talking more than 70K- and the most you ever have to enroll to 'meet' is 8 students....I was doing that 1/2 asleep. So even if someone doing 12-15 students a month has an off month, they have so much of a cusion that their review is still gravy and they are easily going up thousands. EVERY 6 MONTHS. It is a great job if you work for a nice ethical and caring campus. I've visited other campus' in trainings and I would not work there for all the tea in China....

I guess it just depends...
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#106 Consumer Comment

Questions for B...please excuse any spelling mistakes.

AUTHOR: Debunker - (U.S.A.)

I appreciate all of your wisdom and courage, B. You are truely doing us a great deed by enlightening us about this school. I was looking for some advice from someone as knowledgable as you, so here it goes:

First off, I am located in California and plan on furthering my education in this state. With this being said, all the advice about schools I am requesting pertains only to the state of Ca, or including Ca. I have graduated with an Associate's degree (many, actually) from a 2-year community college here in Ca. Some classes I took were on-line through community colleges as well. At any rate, I loved the classes I took online and feel great about them--they were conducive to my education. I am double-majoring in Nursing (or pre-med if I have enough time) and Psychology. I was wondering if I could take any pre-med classes from an on-line school, and if so, which ones. I am on the waitlist for nursing programs all over Ca, so I have completed all the pre-reqs necessary. Most of those pre-reqs are also pre-med requirements.

As for my interest in Psychology, I have been talking in great detail with several on-line campuses, including the UOPO and Walden. Thanks to you, I now know that UOPO is a disgrace. However, I have heard you mention some good things about Walden, so I called some schools in my area (University of Ca. Berkeley, S.F. University, etc...) and asked them what their perception was on a B.S. Psy degree from these type of schools. Suprisingly,they weren't very informative except for S.F. state; they told me that a degree from these school's were accepted but the letters of recommendation needed for the application (going into a Master's or PhD program) usually look a lot more attractive when they are from someone the applicant has met with face-to-face (better still having a traditional student/teacher relationship). This is the only concern I have about transfering a B.S. from Walden into a traditional school. Though Walden offers a B.S. to PhD. program, I would rather get a higher degree at on a traditional campus. Do you have any advice on how I can get straight answers from these schools (about how they truthfully value a former Walden student) and how to go about getting a substantial letter of recommendation from a teacher at an on-line school? I was also told that the "lack of research" from an online program could hinder me if I wanted to transfer into a research specialized program. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

jeff
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#107 Consumer Comment

Questions for B...please excuse any spelling mistakes.

AUTHOR: Debunker - (U.S.A.)

I appreciate all of your wisdom and courage, B. You are truely doing us a great deed by enlightening us about this school. I was looking for some advice from someone as knowledgable as you, so here it goes:

First off, I am located in California and plan on furthering my education in this state. With this being said, all the advice about schools I am requesting pertains only to the state of Ca, or including Ca. I have graduated with an Associate's degree (many, actually) from a 2-year community college here in Ca. Some classes I took were on-line through community colleges as well. At any rate, I loved the classes I took online and feel great about them--they were conducive to my education. I am double-majoring in Nursing (or pre-med if I have enough time) and Psychology. I was wondering if I could take any pre-med classes from an on-line school, and if so, which ones. I am on the waitlist for nursing programs all over Ca, so I have completed all the pre-reqs necessary. Most of those pre-reqs are also pre-med requirements.

As for my interest in Psychology, I have been talking in great detail with several on-line campuses, including the UOPO and Walden. Thanks to you, I now know that UOPO is a disgrace. However, I have heard you mention some good things about Walden, so I called some schools in my area (University of Ca. Berkeley, S.F. University, etc...) and asked them what their perception was on a B.S. Psy degree from these type of schools. Suprisingly,they weren't very informative except for S.F. state; they told me that a degree from these school's were accepted but the letters of recommendation needed for the application (going into a Master's or PhD program) usually look a lot more attractive when they are from someone the applicant has met with face-to-face (better still having a traditional student/teacher relationship). This is the only concern I have about transfering a B.S. from Walden into a traditional school. Though Walden offers a B.S. to PhD. program, I would rather get a higher degree at on a traditional campus. Do you have any advice on how I can get straight answers from these schools (about how they truthfully value a former Walden student) and how to go about getting a substantial letter of recommendation from a teacher at an on-line school? I was also told that the "lack of research" from an online program could hinder me if I wanted to transfer into a research specialized program. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

jeff
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#108 Consumer Comment

Questions for B...please excuse any spelling mistakes.

AUTHOR: Debunker - (U.S.A.)

I appreciate all of your wisdom and courage, B. You are truely doing us a great deed by enlightening us about this school. I was looking for some advice from someone as knowledgable as you, so here it goes:

First off, I am located in California and plan on furthering my education in this state. With this being said, all the advice about schools I am requesting pertains only to the state of Ca, or including Ca. I have graduated with an Associate's degree (many, actually) from a 2-year community college here in Ca. Some classes I took were on-line through community colleges as well. At any rate, I loved the classes I took online and feel great about them--they were conducive to my education. I am double-majoring in Nursing (or pre-med if I have enough time) and Psychology. I was wondering if I could take any pre-med classes from an on-line school, and if so, which ones. I am on the waitlist for nursing programs all over Ca, so I have completed all the pre-reqs necessary. Most of those pre-reqs are also pre-med requirements.

As for my interest in Psychology, I have been talking in great detail with several on-line campuses, including the UOPO and Walden. Thanks to you, I now know that UOPO is a disgrace. However, I have heard you mention some good things about Walden, so I called some schools in my area (University of Ca. Berkeley, S.F. University, etc...) and asked them what their perception was on a B.S. Psy degree from these type of schools. Suprisingly,they weren't very informative except for S.F. state; they told me that a degree from these school's were accepted but the letters of recommendation needed for the application (going into a Master's or PhD program) usually look a lot more attractive when they are from someone the applicant has met with face-to-face (better still having a traditional student/teacher relationship). This is the only concern I have about transfering a B.S. from Walden into a traditional school. Though Walden offers a B.S. to PhD. program, I would rather get a higher degree at on a traditional campus. Do you have any advice on how I can get straight answers from these schools (about how they truthfully value a former Walden student) and how to go about getting a substantial letter of recommendation from a teacher at an on-line school? I was also told that the "lack of research" from an online program could hinder me if I wanted to transfer into a research specialized program. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

jeff
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#109 Consumer Suggestion

I currently attend UOP, and have to agree with some points...

AUTHOR: Debbie - (U.S.A.)

I currently attend UOP, or it's "sister" college rather...Axia -- and I'm looking forward to the day when I graduate (9/21/08). I was "talked" into doing this McCollege thing by a friend that got his Bachelor's degree through UOP. All I can say is, I don't talk to that friend anymore and I cannot WAIT to be done with UOP.

I've read through these posts, and I do agree with some points about how the classes are a bit of a joke. I work full time, therefore I do my homework when I get home in the evening, usually around 7-9pm. Luckily, I'm a single girl with no kids, so I have time to devote to it - I just don't understand how these women with families, kids, a house, laundry, dinner to get on the table and a dog can do online courses!! Anyway, I take two courses every nine weeks. I have an assignment (or "DQs") due on every day except Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays.

I gotta tell ya, there are a lot of times that I just don't feel like debating the differences between the United Nations and the World Trade Organization, or trying to find out what the benefit to Linux over Unix is....and I have "fudged" my way through many assignments, with excellent grades. That being said, it DOES depend on your instructor. Some could give a flying leap IF you turn in an assignment at all. I'm convinced that MANY do not even bother really reading them once you do. Although I'm not proud if it, I have literally copied and pasted info off the internet into a "1050 to 1750 word paper" and gotten excellent feedback on it.

I have had one or two instructors that were hard-asses and I knew from the beginning that I wouldn't be able to get away with such nonsense, but for the most part, if you're good and bullshitting and embellishing - you can do great at UOP. Every class I've taken, I've gotten an A or B in.

I'm on the way to completing my Associates Degree, which I have a feeling will be completely useless in my future. However, since I only have about 4 more months to go, I'm going to finish it out. Of course, the "counselors" are already on me to sign up for my Bachelor's...but I told them that THAT was not going to happen.

I'm tired of being tied down to UOP. I'll be glad when its over!
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#110 Consumer Comment

B - What About South University?

AUTHOR: J.b. In Jax - (U.S.A.)

B,

I am about to graduate next month from South University. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on the quality of South University's education, if any?

I'm glad I didn't chose UoP 3 years ago, that's for sure.

J.B.
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#111 Consumer Comment

AVOID THESE SCHOOLS, THEY ARE USELESS

AUTHOR: Curtis - (Canada)

Some lessons Ive learned after having been screwed by a 'business/career/trade' college.
1)If the school is Private, stay away from it
2)If the school is for-profit, stay away from it
3)If the school offers people the ability to finish a course offered at a public college or university in less that half the time it normally takes, stay away from it
4)Do the credits transfer to other PUBLIC colleges and Provincially funded universities? if not, stay away from it
5)are there multiple posts about the institution on educational forums and on the internet in general that are negative in nature, if so, stay away from it
6)Does the school offer job placement assistance, guaranteed high paying jobs after graduation,scouts/employers from companies that come to the school to look for grads,a 70-90% graduate employment rate and a whole bunch of other really over-the-top guarantees?!,if so,stay away from it
7)Does the school have multiple 'campuses' spread out all over the country?if so, stay away from it
8)Is the school on the third floor of a scummy building? if so, stay away from it
9)Does the school seem to change names every couple of years? If so, stay away from it
10)Does the school go through a constant change of instructors and management? If so, stay away from it
11)Does the school employ ex-grads as teachers?, if so, stay away from it
12)DO they advertise on tv, have a 1-800 number and do they have glossy print ads? If so, stay away from it
-If I would've had a list similar to this before I enrolled in that institution, I would've thought twice about making said decision...It doesnt get any simpler then this. Basically your "bachelors" is not really a bachelors, and your little "masters" is not really a masters! Employers know what to look for, and all these "business" college certificates arent worth jack.
Bottom line:DO YOUR RESEARCH!!

Curtis
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#112 Consumer Comment

Thanx you!

AUTHOR: Jen - (U.S.A.)

Thank you for your help! I am transferring to Walden at the end of the term. I feel like such an idiot..... I guess I had just heard good things about UOP from other people, I didn't even do any online research. Never again!
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#113 Author of original report

What about Kaplan?

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

I have had direct experience with current and former employees of Kaplan. With that, most of the comments I have heard from the current and former employees lead me to believe that Kaplan's sales methodology is not far off from UOP's. As I understand it from word of mouth, Kaplan has a BOILER ROOM environment for the enrollment personnel. High pressure on the sales force tends to result in high pressure on the consumer.

In the end, you're probably going to find a better source of info by looking for reports on Kaplan in ROR. To test, I looked up Kaplan in the ROR search field and 6 pages of consumer comments came up.
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#114 Consumer Comment

What about Kaplan?

AUTHOR: Jen - (U.S.A.)

I think I may remember you mentioning something about Kaplan in one of your earlier posts.... any thoughts?
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#115 Author of original report

Jennifer

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Jennifer,

Has it changed? Yes, for the worst I am afraid. But I believe that if they are to continue to exist in this competitive market, they will soon have to make some significant operational changes. If not, they will only be able to prey on the un-informed and unaware consumer. If you would have known 1 year ago what you know now, you probably would have made different decisions. The word is out on UOP, it is just not strong enough to counter the dominate market presence they retain at this point.

The telltale signs will come mid 2009 after the Bush administration is out of office and new blood is in key positions at the US DOE. Hopefully, a significant crackdown on misuse and abuse of Federal Title IV is on the way. If UOP is forced to comply with the rules surrounding sales reps and Title IV usage, enrollment will take a hit. Enough of a hit that I believe they will need to reposition their stance in the stock market which, at this point, is highly focused on enrollment growth.

With regards to your specific choices; they depend on your academic status. There are plenty of other online bachelor programs out there. Most will take anywhere between 60 and 90 credits in transfer. So if you are more than 30 credits away from finishing your bachelor degree at UOP, you can transfer elsewhere. This will most likely save you a significant amount of money. UOP's tuition is ridiculously high when compared to the quality of the degree.

Follow your gut. I personally have a hard time giving money to an entity that is wholly corrupt. But then again, I do pay taxes Who does that money go to again? Oh yeah, totally corrupt corporations with no-bid contracts
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#116 Consumer Suggestion

So, what now?

AUTHOR: Jen - (U.S.A.)

I have been enrolled in UOP for over a year now and I have worked really hard keeping my GPA up. Then, I find this site and I feel like an idiot. Is all my work really in vain? I had no choice but an online college after my son was born with a disability. This forced me to stay home as he cannot be in daycare or anything like that. I didn't just want to stay home and do nothing else productive, so I decided to start at UOP. I originally heard from many people that UOP is a GREAT online school, one of the best.

But now, I'm starting to regret my decision. What do I do now? Has it changed in the almost three years since you originally posted this?

I know that I have worked hard, and I know I am not one of those lazy or dumb students that many people think attend UOP. Maybe I made bad decisions in the past, or I would have been at UNT, where I received a full scholarship. I don't regret my life decisions, but should I regret my education decisions?

Please give me some insight as to where to go from here. Should I finish the rest of the year and then transfer? Advice would be greatly appreciated!!

-Jennifer
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#117 Consumer Comment

Abby don't let the have-nots get the best of you

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

You will only get from a college or degree what you put into it--period. Anyone that thinks that they will simply "plug-in" to a college and become brillant or make a return on their investment is foolish.

If you go to UOP make sure you demand the quality education that you expect--and then make sure you deliver on your end. I have heard so many complaints about hard work, long hours, and too much research that it makes my ears bleed and take pity on those that think that they can get an education without breaking a sweat or writing a check. The strange thing is, you will find the same complaints at any other school...it's the squeaky wheels that will never succeed. And you'll find a lot of squeak on this forum.

I received my BSIT from UOP a few years back and I'm happily making $110K because of it. The college is accredited and growing.

The one failing is that maybe that they don't weed out those few that aren't ready or able to get a college education.

Seriously, not everyone is cut out to have a college education.
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#118 Consumer Comment

Thank you B and Everyone

AUTHOR: Abby - (U.S.A.)

Firstly, I would like to thank B and everyone here for expressing their opinions.

I am an UoP student. I was taking my BS in Bus. Management but stopped when my father passed away in 2005. I have a year worth of classes left before graduating. Fast forward to now. I just returned to UoP. This time I decided to take a certificate course since there is an immediate need for it in my job. I've been in the certificate program for 1 week now and everything is going well. For now, I feel investing in the certificate program at UoP will benefit me. I've already discussed this with my manager [at my job] and completing the program at UoP will help me with my pending promotion.

My major concern is obtaining my BS degree. After reading all your posts, I feel the same as many here. A BS degree should have credibility and have weight. It shouldn't be a joke. I mean, why work your a** off to get one, right? So, I am so grateful to have stumbled on this site.

Because of my schedule, online learning works best for me. I will see if I can transfer my UoP credits for my BS Bus. Management degree to one of the other online schools mentioned earlier. I will finish the certification program at UoP but for my BS degree, I have to go to an online school that will give me a degree with weight and credibility.
Thanks!
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#119 Author of original report

Thank God I found this site

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Don't be as concerned about online colleges, as you should be about bad colleges online or ground. Many traditional universities now online degrees. The debate about good reputation is subjective at best. As you can read in this blog, there are many who feel UOP has a good reputation and many who disagree.

In the case of Everest University Online, they are ACICS accredited, better known as National Accreditation. This is often considered as a lower level of accreditation than regional. It may not be an issue but if you ever plan on applying for graduate school or transferring credits into a regionally accredited university, you may find that a nationally accredited degree or credits will not be acceptable.

Look around, take your time. There are many good institutions out there offering online degrees. Reputation is subjective. Just make sure that you don't feel like they are only trying to sell you a degree. Call UOP and see what they say, I'm sure you'll get the pressure approach. Talk to some other institutions and if you get the feel they actually are trying to help you, you're probably safe as long as that institution is regionally accredited.
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#120 Author of original report

Thank God I found this site

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Don't be as concerned about online colleges, as you should be about bad colleges online or ground. Many traditional universities now online degrees. The debate about good reputation is subjective at best. As you can read in this blog, there are many who feel UOP has a good reputation and many who disagree.

In the case of Everest University Online, they are ACICS accredited, better known as National Accreditation. This is often considered as a lower level of accreditation than regional. It may not be an issue but if you ever plan on applying for graduate school or transferring credits into a regionally accredited university, you may find that a nationally accredited degree or credits will not be acceptable.

Look around, take your time. There are many good institutions out there offering online degrees. Reputation is subjective. Just make sure that you don't feel like they are only trying to sell you a degree. Call UOP and see what they say, I'm sure you'll get the pressure approach. Talk to some other institutions and if you get the feel they actually are trying to help you, you're probably safe as long as that institution is regionally accredited.
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#121 Author of original report

Thank God I found this site

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Don't be as concerned about online colleges, as you should be about bad colleges online or ground. Many traditional universities now online degrees. The debate about good reputation is subjective at best. As you can read in this blog, there are many who feel UOP has a good reputation and many who disagree.

In the case of Everest University Online, they are ACICS accredited, better known as National Accreditation. This is often considered as a lower level of accreditation than regional. It may not be an issue but if you ever plan on applying for graduate school or transferring credits into a regionally accredited university, you may find that a nationally accredited degree or credits will not be acceptable.

Look around, take your time. There are many good institutions out there offering online degrees. Reputation is subjective. Just make sure that you don't feel like they are only trying to sell you a degree. Call UOP and see what they say, I'm sure you'll get the pressure approach. Talk to some other institutions and if you get the feel they actually are trying to help you, you're probably safe as long as that institution is regionally accredited.
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#122 Author of original report

Thank God I found this site

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Don't be as concerned about online colleges, as you should be about bad colleges online or ground. Many traditional universities now online degrees. The debate about good reputation is subjective at best. As you can read in this blog, there are many who feel UOP has a good reputation and many who disagree.

In the case of Everest University Online, they are ACICS accredited, better known as National Accreditation. This is often considered as a lower level of accreditation than regional. It may not be an issue but if you ever plan on applying for graduate school or transferring credits into a regionally accredited university, you may find that a nationally accredited degree or credits will not be acceptable.

Look around, take your time. There are many good institutions out there offering online degrees. Reputation is subjective. Just make sure that you don't feel like they are only trying to sell you a degree. Call UOP and see what they say, I'm sure you'll get the pressure approach. Talk to some other institutions and if you get the feel they actually are trying to help you, you're probably safe as long as that institution is regionally accredited.
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#123 Consumer Comment

Thank God I found this site

AUTHOR: Christina - (U.S.A.)

I have recently been looking at taking some online college courses. I have researched UOP and also Everest University Online (or so I thought) I would assume UOP and Everest have similar policies on enrollment, pricing, accreditation, etc. Now I am extremely concerned with the whole idea of online college. Does anyone know of any that actually have a good reputation?
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#124 Consumer Comment

Education via University of Phoenix

AUTHOR: Terri - (U.S.A.)

This is in response to the former enrollment advisor's letter about the University of Phoenix. In the very first sentence the lack of education is apparent where the word "that" is placed before the pronoun "I." Anyone who has trudged through the University of Phoenix's writing reviews will recognize "that" is not appropriate in the sentence as the word is used. Additionally any numbers from one to nine should be spelled out and digits used only in expressing numbers 10 and higher. The second sentence would have been better written if the person had "recently resigned my position as one of the highest paid advisors" rather than "I recently quit" as the sentence lacks academic clarity. The sentence about receiving payments on enrollments in 2003 is incomplete lacking appropriate grammatical composition. For those who read and do not know what MBA/MKT stands for these two abbreviations should have been spelled out for those less fortunate.

The above paragraph is just a small example of the errors throughout your complaint. You should also be aware a "person's lively hood" is appropriately displayed as "livelihood" not as two separate words.

Before you complain as a disgruntled former employee about the University of Phoenix, you should have your academic abilities assessed by a college or university of your choosing. The belief is that should you choose to accept this challenge, you will find that the best thing you did for the University of Phoenix was to resign as enrollment advisor.

As a University of Phoenix alumnus with Honors Distinction that I earned by toil, sweat and diligence I must admit that I am elated that you were not my academic advisor OR my enrollment advisor. The negative attitude of your presence at the University of Phoenix is emanated throughout the poorly written complaint filed on this website.

Step back and take a look at the real problem which is not solely one person's fault but as anything in life, what the individual makes of one situation or another.

Sincerely,

T
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#125 Consumer Comment

Joke of All Time

AUTHOR: Jonid - (U.S.A.)

I don't even know where to begin. I just spent ten weeks of my life in UOP, time that I will never get back, let alone the money I wasted and the massive brain suck of discussion groups that should more appropriately be called a "sharing of ignorance." I learned a lot though. Like, never do this again. There really are people out there who have jobs who are not very smart, to put it mildly. You may not meet them in real life, but you will at UOP.

I signed on for the UOP BSIT/Visual and Media. I am a published writer, and an artist, and have some background in advertising and live in a small town, so I thought cool, I can become not just a muddler with web pages and brochures but a real expert. I was one quarter away from having completed my bachelors with honors in ancient history at UCSB, but don't live there anymore, so that was out. But here I could learn real marketable skills as opposed to attic greek (which I loved by the way) and be qualified for a real job, as opposed to real estate market speculation which is what I have done in the past to make money. The syllabus was perfect, just what I and a lot of other fools wanted to learn.

I poked around a bit at on-line colleges, but UOP seemed fine, I wanted that skill set. I had two friends who had just finished in accounting and another friend who took his doctorate in geology. They all talked about how hard it was, and how worthwhile and just what a wonderful, demanding and fulfilling experience it was. And UOP made it real easy to sign up, since I really don't have much patience with paperwork and once I had made the decision I wanted to start right away. Also, living in AZ, I thought it would have brand recognition, which it does, but not in quite the way I thought.

At least I got out quick. That is all I can say in my defense. The first class was a joke, a big group hug with everyone posting to the discussion groups about; how excited they were, how happy and proud their families would be (this must have come from ECs, because it was a real dumb idea, your 2 year old does not give a crap if you have a degree, he wants lunch), how they had always failed before and now were going to make it, how their jobs and careers would be enhanced by the UOP degree. At least that is what I thought they were saying, because no one could write a clear sentence. They couldn't spell, they couldn't read, they couldn't conjugate, they didn't know what conjugate meant... I don't know about the rest of the class, but I asked my Learning Team (Ignorance Team) and they all got 100% on everything, even the stuff that I didn't do for them.

Okay, so I thought, well this is the very first class. Everybody in the entire school has to do it, so there are some dummies here, after this I am in upper division and they will have learned something. I was unaware for the first three weeks that these were all bachelors candidates, there was another lower level somewhere out there.

Next term I doubled up classes and got business and computer systems. I had an AS in econ, summa cum laude, I don't know why that wouldn't suffice for business systems, except that UOP wanted another cash prize out of my hide. Needless to say, these classes were MARGINALLY better. About one-fourth of the students could spell, and some had really mastered their APA formatting so that they could have arguments about it in their learning teams.

So they offer ONE WEEK, of business finance, from which one is supposed to be able to deal with reading balance sheets, income statements, understand Sarbox, and common business ratios. No problem for me, I never cracked, or clicked, a text. But I already knew that stuff. My fellow students were lost deep in the desert of ignorance, where they remained. I queried my learning team, just to see if anyone had learned anything, I really couldn't judge because I already knew this stuff. Not one of them had any idea what to even do with the material they had supposedly just learned. The last DQ of the week was, "What is ROI?" Not one person had a clue. The posts rambled along with stuff like, "I think if a business spends money up front it is a sign that they care and are confident." This is not an exact quote, I can't remember bad spelling. Or, "I sometimes wonder about investing so much in school because it takes time from my family and children and housework and job. But I know when I am successful that it will be 100%." Point is, this isn't a question that is answered with I feel, or I believe, it is a boring business calculation that anyone who can google can at least take a stab at. But their lack of any comprehension at all proved my point that although we had been required to look at the financial docs of a virtual company, and do similar calculations for individual papers for class, no one had learned ANYTHING.

My other class was computer systems. The text had an acronym for every paragraph, I looked at it once. I had to write a paper on the databases I use in work. Well I work at home, my database is my purse, briefcase, console of my truck, door of my truck, and finally to the desk, where eventually it all gets filed. I also pointed out I use some databases for mailing, and accounting. My fac was not amused though, because I hadn't written it in APA third-person format. OMG, it never occurred to me that the pile of crap on my desk warranted academic writing. She did kindly suggest that I seek out the Center for Writing Excellence, and they could show me how to do it, "I would love it, they would really help me." At the same time, one of my LT partners turned in her section of a paper I was supposed to edit. The virtual org. was a 50 million grossing company. She was supposed to determine the computer needs for the F&A office, just the office itself, not the entire company. Now I hadn't expected her to be able to figure this out on her own, so I simply told her, there are 8 employees, all need compatible PCs that work with the server and the ERP software, and the four management people need laptops. So she came back with the solution, we would recommend PDAs. I flipped out. My fac, who had recommended I needed writing help, suggested I turn over the reigns (sic). All because I suggested to the fac that Nancy's A grade at the end would be meaningless to her, because she wouldn't know if that was A as in apple, or A as in ate.

So I finally pulled my head out of my rear and did some research. And of course withdrew from school immediately. I don't even know how I will ever again face my friends who went all the way through this joke of a school and went into debt, when they could have just gone to CC for practically nothing.

I went ahead and made this post long, just to demonstrate what really happens in a UOP Learning Environment. If you are reading this and thinking that well, this is all just ranting, well it is, but I tried to show with examples what really goes on in these classes. I would not hire a UOP grad. I would wonder about their intelligence level for having survived it. And that skill set I wanted, well I can learn C++ on-line for $120, my son is doing it for fun, much more rigorous than UOP. For me that same class where I would have learned nothing due to herding my team all the time, would have cost me a grand.

B is absolutely right. This school was designed to shake down government guaranteed student loans and grants. That is its only purpose. It is a big cash machine based upon how many bodies are enrolled. I was fortunate in that I have had enough real college experience and had been successful enough in college in the past to know that this is not what school is supposed to be about. So I got out. I feel really bad for the poor students who are doing this for their kids, or a promotion, or whatever, and are going to be saddled with enormous debt at the end and very little to show for it. The DOE should absolutely shut this place down, but then that can be said about a lot of colleges, even not-for-profits, that shake the government student loan tree and pay fat salaries to administrators and offer really poor educational quality. But UOP has to be the worst I have ever seen.

Joni
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#126 UPDATE EX-employee responds

But B in Phoenix failed to report on the other half of the equation, What do you get for the $?

AUTHOR: James - (U.S.A.)

I never actually received any money from Phoenix so I may not actually be an ex-employee, but here is my story. I have a doctorate in business administration from USC, I have been awarded two separate Senior Fulbright Scholarships, I have published over two dozen articles in professional journals, including two in the Harvard Business Review and I have taught in a dozen MBA programs around the world. I cite these facts to establish that I am an experienced, highly regarded professional.

About five years ago, Phoenix made a major effort to recruit faculty so I thought it might be a good way to supplement the meager wages paid the State of California. The first step was making a personal presentation to a "cattle call" at a Phoenix facility. I was truly embarrassed for all other applicants. How they could have gotten that far, was a mystery to me. In any case, after the cattle call, a Phoenix representative took me aside and said they would like me to join the faculty. The next step was to complete a Phoenix "training" program. Understand that I had been teaching these courses for over twenty years with the highest student ratings.

So I showed up to meet with a much smaller, much more diverse group of "students". A man and a woman conducted the training session like Prussian generals, i.e., you will do this, you will not do this, but the bottom line was that under no circumstances should you ever flunk a student, do anything to discourage at student. In short, your basic job was to be a cheerleader and do eveything possible to keep the student enrolled.

What I found particularly interesting was that neither of training instructors had ever actually taught a class in anything. What was also of interest was that they both drove the absolute top of the line Mercedes Benz.

After about four weeks, they got around to course content. I will admit that I have encountered some pretty bad MBA programs in my travels around the world, but Phoenix stuff was in class by itself. I couldn't pass off this crap to students and have any self respect whatsoever. This didn't seem to bother my "class mates". In any case, I quit.

A couple of years later, Phoenix came back to me and asked if I would like to be faculty in their online school. I said tell me more. I was told that the first thing was I would have to take a spelling tests. This is after twenty-four published books with almost a million copies sold!! I think you can figure out how the online program at Phoenix works for yourself.

Since then, I have had experience with five more online schools and the conclusion is inescapable; online universities are ONLY interesting in enrolling unqualified students who can obtain government grants or loans to cover the "tuition".

So that brings us back to B's observations about money and the bottom line (no joke intended) is that students in online universities get screwed coming and going. Mores the pity.
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#127 Consumer Comment

Tried UOP and was not happy. Student from 2005-2006.

AUTHOR: A - (U.S.A.)

I tried UOP for over a year and a half and I was not happy with the education that I was getting for the amount of money that I was paying. I felt that most facilitators (they are not called instructors) didn't really teach. Where we, as students, were required to post three times a week we were lucky to hear from the facilitator once a week. They usually posted a document that was meant to 'explain' the week's teachings. Often they were following some sort of script for the class. One even admitted that they had to follow what UOP wanted them to teach so their hands were tied as to what they could do.

As for what these facilitators told us about their background? How do we know it's all true? Some of them would post a few pages about what they accomplished and I always wondered why they would be teaching at the UOP when they were clearly over qualified to even teach. Ever hear the saying, "Those who can do, those who can't teach"? I never really believed that until attending UOP.

I was enrolled in Information Technology where they kept pushing the business and project management side of IT. That was not what I signed up for. I wanted to learn programming, what I was promised, not Microsoft Project, which is what I go.

Group projects were a joke. Usually one person did all the work but everyone got credit for it. I complained over and over about the group projects and was told that they were required to emulate 'real world' experience and that all colleges did this. I work in IT and these group projects aren't even close to how the real world works. Sure we have meetings but most of the time you do your part

I needed to take six weeks off for surgery and they told me it was fine but after three weeks they had me listed as dropping out. When I finally did drop out it took weeks of resending paper work to achieve. When I had to contact anyone from UOP it always took a few days to do so.

I started back at a local college, going back to the traditional class room where we meet once a week and there is no such thing as group projects. This college, a highly reputable college, accepted every single credit from my community college Associates Degree but not one from UOP. So that makes a year and half completely wasted there.

In my opinion, nothing beats face to face learning. When you don't understand something the professor is right there to clarify and respond to questions. They have office hours where you can stop by at any time.

If online learning is working for you than all power to you but this was just not for me.
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#128 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Your information is right on and I am glad to hear what you said, FYI

AUTHOR: Uop Employee - (U.S.A.)

Brian Mueller has an extra e. I know its just typo and I am not nitpicking. I love what you wrote and wish something could be done. What about contacting our Congressmen or another government official? Incidently after the name on most of these it is @apollogrp.edu or @phoenix.edu. (sometimes both, I was in the IT department)

Thanks for the most insightful and intelligent contribution to Ripoff Report!
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#129 Consumer Comment

UOP (Apollo) stock hammered; $277 million dollar class-action loss a crusher!

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

I didn't think it could happen again: Apollo Group (aka UOP, aka Amway U) stock, despite a $438 million dollar Apollo buy-back has now, again, been halved!

Chairman John Sperling drove the stock up to $82 with the buy-back, then, Apollo insiders exercised a million shares of stock options with YEARS remaining on the options.

The post-class-action-lawsuit-loss stock bashing was impressive: $82 to $55 to $41; another 50% stock loser, which no buy-back could forestall.

I doubt we'll see another buy-back; Apollo's cash reserves are dwindling. UOP now even has it's own lawsuit web-page, claiming it'll turn the Sept 2009 Plaintiffs, "on their heads". Yeah, just like they turned the Chicago cops on their heads, huh?

Naturally, to stem the tide, Amway U has hired more salespeople and spent a bunch more on marketing to capitalize on W.C. Fields profound philosophy: "there's a sucker born every minute". Rather than upgrade infrastructure and bring in quality professors, Amway U has simply decided to sign up more chumps, thereby dumbing-down their sorry programs even further.

Here's the next bold step for UOP: the "high-school dropout direct to Master's" program. It's seems that UOP conferring (or should I say anointing) "Master's" Degrees on GED students ain't cuttin' it. No, let's get radical: simply grant a Master's to a kindergartner and bypass education altogether.

"Pay the fee,
get a B,
that's the way,
at UOP!"
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#130 Consumer Comment

James did you read the whole thread?

AUTHOR: R.d.v. - (U.S.A.)

B. only got nasty with those who came in nasty.

He has already told us why he left, and he has never openly admitted he was one of the EAs who lied to people.

Over the last couple years many people have come into this thread and wrote the exact same gibberish as you - it has all been covered.

And how exactly is B supposed to make the changes over at UOPO? he doesn't even work there anymore. Plus, if you would have read the whole thread before opening you mouth, you would have seen that B has been very passionate about online learning and has discussed his philosophies with us.


(Sorry B, just in case you wanted to respond, just figured I would give you a break since you have responded to one of these every month.)
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#131 Author of original report

Who ordered the Kraut?

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

James,

While I know this blog is long with many entries, you should probably do your reading before making a comment. I could care less which language you would want to debate in because it is obvious that regardless of the language, you seem incapable of extracting the critical points from the reading material. Most of what you ask above has been asked and answered in prior posts. As for my responses turning rude, if you would have paid attention you would see that this happens under one of two circumstances. First, a UOP supporter enters my thread to defend UOP with no valid supporting documentation to refute my claims. I have provided multiple, factual points that can be verified by simple searches which no one has been able to counter.

So when people enter this blog spouting personal testimonials saying UOP is this great place and that I am lying, I go on the attack. It becomes obvious real quickly that they have no foundation to their claims, only personal testimony built on the fact that they are students and feel the need to defend the institution. Second, most of the people I go after, go after me first Just as you did here.

As you can read above on MULTIPLE occasions, you are not the first fool to chalk my posts up to be being a disgruntled employee. Since you asked for explanation, and you obviously need it spelled out for you here it goes.

As stated in my first few posts herein, there are good people at UOP. People who try to do things right, who try to do right by the students they assist. This does not overshadow the comprehensive issues plaguing UOP from a corporate standpoint. One individual or group of individuals is not going to change that place in any meaningful way because those who could act as change agents at the executive level are the ones creating the issues from the top down. As stated in many posts herein, I was very successful while I was there, I also did things the right way. I did not see the need to lie or manipulate students to get them to enroll. I did see others doing this because they did not posses the skills necessary to meet their job tasks without cheating or lying.

When I started at UOP, this problem existed but did not become systemic until approximately 2004 when the corporate culture changed drastically. Brian Muller went on a crusade to grow UOP. He instilled a cheap labor model, increased hiring but UOP did not increase prospective lead flow. Law of diminishing returns means more people working the same amount of leads results in a decrease of results per person. While it was obvious that many advisors were struggling to meet their minimum job performance expectations, the executive team made no attempt to rush adjustments to the performance expectation plan or compensation system. Many employees became desperate to keep their jobs by hitting their monthly performance goals. When you mix desperation with lack of resources, people resort to shady tactics in the name of self preservation.

When it became obvious to me that this was happening more and more, and the frustration was rampant in the organization I started to realize that things were turning for the worst. While this was just one of the many issues plaguing UOP, it was the one that impacted me and my associates the most. When the choice I had to make was between resorting to lying and cheating to hit my monthly goals, or simply leaving my position I chose to leave.

While this was explained in previous comments, you seemed to overlook those points because it did not support your claim. Typically a tactic of those without a clue.

Saving my own skin? From what? I will openly admit that when I started this blog 3 years ago it was done to expose UOP for what they had become and what they still are today. I was angry that an organization with so much potential to be a positive force chooses not to be. There is no reason for it to resort to the practices it engages in except the greed of a small few. In the end, I did help grow an organization I believe now to be inherently evil.

For that I do have regrets. Like with most traditional concepts of sin, the intent is what matters. My intent was positive but I am none the less guilty of contributing even if it was unknowingly. When I realized that no amount of effort would change things internally, I left in the hopes that other organizations in the online education field operate in a more ethical and positive manner. Luckily there are some that exist.

With regards to this blog, it is obvious that exposing potential consumers of UOP and existing users of UOP to the truth has an impact. The impact is on the only place that UOP cares about, their wallets. What you will see in coming years is UOP facing some major issues in the public arena. My points and stance about them as an organization has been validated on multiple occasions via lawsuits, government actions, and accreditation visits.

I truly hope that UOP rights the ship. I believe there is much riding on their success for an entire industry and millions of people who use online education. I just know that it will take a major blow to their bottom line to effect any significant or meaningful positive change. Perhaps the lawsuit of 2009 and temporary suspension of the Title IV funding could do it. Unfortunately, billion dollar organizations can buy their way out of trouble.

One more thing about your inability to pay attention. You say that you see no evidence of me trying to fix anything or provide a solution. Hello? Did you even read this blog? If you had, you would notice on multiple posts I try to offer guidance and assistance to those with questions. In fact, look a few posts up from this one where the guy was asking about Regis U.

Regardless of the language you use, when you comment on something without actually knowing what you're talking about, you sound like a fool. Yes, I am going after you here but if you notice you're the one that started it. If you're going to swing first you better be damn sure you're going to be able to swing last.
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#132 Consumer Comment

Questioning B motive.

AUTHOR: James - (U.S.A.)

First, I would like to know why your so upset B. I am going to chalk you up to disgruntled reemployed. I am going to tell you why. You never mention anything about the circumstances in which you finally left. You clearly have no remorse of the part you took. Indeed, I bet your money spent just fine.

You openly admit that you were part of the dubious practices going on. You clearly state what the Matrix is and how it works. You admit to being one off their highest paid people.

Now all of a sudden you are going to go Paladin on us? I do not believe you. Although I agree that there are things that are seedy things going on, (I am student trying to get out) I do not believe you created this thread to help others. I believe you did it because you are angry over something personal. Your tone is that of some one with a vendetta. Please do not tell me you quit because of seedy practices. If these practices are as horrible as you claim, a person of moral character would have gotten out long ago. I would have. I find it hard to believe that, after being one of their best for years, you would just go Paladin. I have yet to see you show any remorse for the part you took in this. Do you feel bad at all over it? I am getting the impression that you just might be trying to save you own skin. There is more you are obviously not telling us.

Also your mean character is clearly showed in you rudeness to others and your inability to debate the issues without becoming juvenile and insulting. This destroys your credibility. You seem like a man in the know, please tell me you are doing more than sitting at your computer trolling this thread.

You act like a crusader, yet you do not mention what other steps you have taken to solve this problem. I would like to know. In my humble opinion, people should not complain that much about an issue unless they are actively working on a solution. I have seen you offer none.

Before you start in on my spelling and grammar, I would like to invite you to disscuss the issues in German(my first language) with me. I doubt ill ever come back to this thread again, so maybe not.
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#133 Consumer Comment

Thanx B. Great Thread

AUTHOR: R.d.v. - (U.S.A.)

First of all I find it ironic that the advertisement on this page right now is UOPO.

Second, wow three years worth of threads, took me a while to go through them.

Before I start, B if there is anyway to get in touch with you I would love to throw ideas back and forth, as I am writing a piece about "non-traditional" universities, hopefully for the Chronicle of Higher Education.

Now into the nitty gritty. I have been looking into getting into UOPO as an instructor, i could use the extra money and it would help me with this piece. I have already worked for Strayer, DeVry and a few other non-trad universities, although I taught on the ground most of the time. (I would like to mention that I am a dedicated professor, and do make sure that my students get the most out of a truncated class. It's not just about money to me.)

I also have had some experience with online education from the student standpoint, I have 2/3 of my masters from a Norwich University Masters Program. (although paying out of pocket has led me to put a temporary halt to it.)

I have come to the following conclusions about these types of programs:

First, I do believe that there is a place for non-traditional learning, and that venue is most likely going to be the most effective in an online setting. I think Asynchronous is probably the way to go, as synchronous seems to void the aspect of "learning on your own time."

Second, I do believe that degrees from the major online universities, are indeed, of less value (on the job market) than a degree from some of the worst brick and mortar CC and universities. Why do I say this? Because my research has shown it. (I will argue quality of student later, but I do want to mention that B&M institutions also let riftraft in, and that UOPO is not the only school with "morons") Also, this opinion is not because both of the degrees i have completed came from B&Ms.

TO those who have said they are employed in education during the course of this thread: were you employed in education BEFORE going to UOPO? If not, are you situated in a locale that Teach For America wouldn't even touch? Down here in Florida there are teachers that slip by on just HS diplomas, let alone a degree from any institution. I know that most public schools in the north will no longer consider UOPO degrees when looking for teachers. Why? Because they know the quality is much less than what their own institutions can provide, and their own institutions produce more than enough teachers for the north. It is not just Intel that does not want UOPO grads, the state systems of higher education in many states will not hire on someone with just UOPO graduate degrees anymore. If UOPO grads are not good enough to teach the populace, why are they good enough for business? I think this just strengthens B's point (i believe you made this point about a year ago) that the flood of UOPO grads that are subpar (and there are some that are NOT subpar) is leading to the deterioration of American business capabilities. In other words, a glut of unqualified graduates are bringing down the standard for US business.

TO that one poster that claimed she was an adjunct, big whoop - I was an adjunct at a CC before I graduated my BA. Lets turn it again, are you an adjunct at a UOP ground campus? I think there may be a good chance that you are. Academic nepotism at UOP seems to be rampant. Don't believe, just go search for some UOP professors on google many will have degrees (and a lot of these it will be their only graduate degree) from UOP.

As B has stated, working professionals are not always the best teachers, especially in a 5 week period. IF your only credentials is working at UOP and getting a degree there, are those really credentials for teaching?

Third, the education is subpar in general. YEah, I know some of you have worked real hard and you may be learning much, but in general the courses are easier at these non-trad universities. This is due to many factors B and others have stated over the years ( <--- that is weird to refer to a conversation as "over the years") Mainly, UOPO and others need to keep the bacon coming in. For example I will give you my own experience with DeVry and tell you why I am no longer an adjunct there (actually I am still on the "adjunct list" but don't get offered classes)

I was teaching a course which should have never been taught in the 8 week hybrid (online and in classroom 4 hours a week) form DeVry uses at its ground campuses. I should have known something was up when three weeks into the course i was told by my dean and by my mentor that I had to "dumb down" (exact words) the course because of many excuses made by these faculty members, a few of which include: students could barely read; form sentences; were not interested in your subject; were aloud to plagiarize in other classes, so it is ok;could not sit the whole four hours or take physical tests; amongst other excuses. Ok I thought, I am teaching a 400 (4th year at a normal university) course - there should be some standard.

at the end of the class, I had one student who showed up to three courses and did not participate online (required) - I failed them. I had another student who was not smart enough to at least change up wikipedia articles before submitting a paper. Since he came to every class and he participated, I gave him many chances to redo his work, he did and he got a C. (Although he begged for an A because his GPA needed it, I do have standards and probably breeched them by not failing him in the first place.) Everyone else in the class received an A or B, although only two deserved it. Anyway, my dean asked me why would I fail said student and mark the other so low? Well I thought that was obvious and I told him. He then replied, "well we have to keep them enrolled."

The student who got a C had been given a B, because they had attended every class, and the Dean thought that should count for something. THe failed student was given an A!!!! WTF? The dean would never answer my questions about said student's grade. If you are going to keep someone afloat, give them a C not an A. But... I am pretty sure I know why they were given their grade. On the last day of class, this last student showed up in a pretty provocative outfit and had to talk to me urgently after class. For you UOPO graduates (sorry could not resist the poke) i will explain it to you. I was offered favors for grades, and turned her down. I guess she just went up the food chain.

Anyway, I have not had the same experience at Strayer and they seemed to have a more teacher friendly policy. I am trusted with my grades there. So this just goes to show that not every non-trad university is the same, as UOP may not be like that on the ground, but I have been told by instructor friends that it is, in fact, that way online. As B has pointed out, there is a heavy curve to keep students in attendance. For-profit universities are often misguided in the way they handle academics.

Okay that was a long example, but I will get back to the thread at hand.

I do believe that if UOP was perhaps reshaped it could be much better - however I personally would never risk a degree from UOP because of all the situations that have tarnished their name. Even if they change names (ie firestone, bridgestone anybody?) people are still going to associate them with crumby education. Much safer for people to start programs with Universities that are less known, but still offer decent programs. For that matter I would stay away from ITT because of the flak it has taken in recent years. I am going to take a look at NCU's programs just to see what a "not-so-popular" school is like in the online arena. Although my PhD is going to be from a B&M, but then again I am in the Humanities and it is near impossible to land a tenured job with an online degree... This is probably a bias that won't fade for another 20 years.

And since I have forgotten many of the points I wanted to make in this overly long point, i will leave on this last note.

When I was searching for PhD school (and this is all traditional schools) I searched for one with reputation in my field that would allow me to get a job afterwards, one that I wanted. This philosophy needs to be taken at the BA and MA level with online and trad schools. Is the UOP degree really going to get you where you want to go, or is the name recognition so bad that no one is going to hire you. Just like in the academic world, employers like hiring committees at Universities, know a bad school name when it comes up on the application.


Yeah many UOP grads have found success (like 2 out of 100k are in fortune 500s! lol) but the numbers are skewed because so many people already had those decent jobs first. BUT, I have good news for all you UOP graduates as you flood the market. Since the degree is becoming so common, in 20 years it will be worth something - even if UOP continues to just stamp diplomas. Why? because UOP graduates will be the vast majority of the workforce, so there will always be someone willing to hire one!

One correction to something said before by a poster,
"who would hire a UOP graduate over an IVY leaguer?" The answer: another UOP graduate.
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#134 Consumer Comment

University Of Phoenix (aka Apollo Group, Aka AmwayU) UOP Taxpayer/Securities Fraud, Chicago Cops nail UOP in class-action suit Phoenix AZ

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

How may Rip-Off Report contributors have been railing for a class-action lawsuit against UOP? (aka Apollo, aka AmwayU...I'll hereinafter refer to UOP as "Apollo"; it's not a University, but is the "Amway of Education" and carries about the same respect).

Well, the Policeman's Annuity and Benefit Fund of Chicago filed a class-action fraud suit against in Apollo in the Phoenix-based US District Court. The case was tried in Phoenix, in front of a Phoenix jury, who found, by a 12-0 vote, on January 16th, Apollo guilty of FRAUD.

Damages of $277 million were awarded to the Chicago cops and Apollo shareholders.

Apollo was begging for this; they had these stats on their side: since 1996, this was the fourth securities fraud case, out of 2,218 filed, in which the jury found for the Plaintiff (0.18034% success ratio). Based on the prior 10 years' cases, Apollo went in with a 99.81% chance of winning--and lost, by a 12-0 vote of Phoenix jurors.

What was the case about? Apollo failed to inform it's shareholders a 1.5 billion dollar taxpayer rip-off fraud lawsuit against is going forward against Apollo. The trial is set for Sept. 15, 2009. Yes, folks, it seems your student loan money, your tax dollars, have paid for sales commissions and Hawaiian vacations. Heck, you even blew 157 million on a "University of Phoenix" stadium in Glendale in a two-business bidding contest which Apollo CEO Brian Mueller stated was necessary for "credibility". The other bidder? You guessed it, "The Pink Taco" (love that name!) Mexican restaurant bid 30 million.

John Sperling, Founder and Chairman of Apollo read the writing on the wall: between Jan. 14th and 16th (jury verdict) Sperling, and his brother Peter sold over a million shares of Apollo stock at $82 a share. How did Apollo's price get to $82? They repurchased $438 million of their own stock! Today, Apollo closed at $55. (Funny, the stock options sold had seven years remaining on them).

John Sperling knows there's a sucker born every minute (that's you, ROR chumps). That's how Apollo makes money. Apollo knows you can't bust on your federal student loans--you've got to pay 'em back, even if you bankrupt.

Apollo has done this before: their stock was limping at $5. The "51% rule" (for federal student loan funding, a school had to offer 51% of it's classes on-campus) was keeping Apollo from making an on-line killing. John Sperling sent Apollo lobbyist Sally Stroup to Washington so that Sally would grease the palms of John Boehner and Tom DeLay. Once Bush was elected, Boehner and DeLay pimped Sally to Become Undersecretary of Education (in charge of student loans!!!). Sally immediately granted an "experimental" waiver of the 51% rule to Apollo and the stock soared to $100. Eventually, Boehner tried to make the waiver law (as part of the Katrina Relief package!) but that got tabled. Once Boehner became House Majority leader, the 51% rule was rescinded and Apollo ran wild. That, readers, is how your student loan monies turned into sales commissions, rather than educational infrastructure and salaries for great professors.

As of this writing, Bank of America has revised the Apollo stock target price from
$90 to $58, citing "corporate tuition reimbursement risk." Translation: Intel won't pay another dime for it's employees getting a crummy "education". And, the stock has been downgraded to a "sell."

Will Apollo go away? Of course not. There's a sucker born every minute. And, like Amway, Apollo has found the perfect siren song to lure the suckers: an on-line home study MBA, no pre-qualifying, hell, you don't even need a BA to get an MBA: a GED will do

Apollo is the Amway of the Millenium: like Amway, they bought stadium naming rights (Orlando's Amway Arena); like Amway, it's wildly expensive, yet has a horrible reputation; like Amway, it's nothing more that an MLM scheme with an "educational" twist; like Amway, Apollo will never go away: there are just too many suckers out there; like Amway, Apollo shatters lives.

Why would I put this essay at the bottom of "B"s thread? Because, B's factual, insider approach has yet to be impeached or refuted. Read the beginnings of this guy's thread regarding the Intel memo. Then, Google UOP and Intel; B had the 411 on Intel/UOP months before the media broke the story.

I appreciate your work, B.
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#135 Consumer Comment

I knew this place was stealing my grant money....

AUTHOR: Taking_it_like_a_man_from_uophx - (U.S.A.)

They didn't even have all my classes in my schedule listed at first, and didn't change it until I mentioned something about it (Planned Obsolesce/Failure?). They for some reason started distributing my "excess" funds in two checks instead of the usual one check. I don't know why they would do this unless giving them a few more days of using my money to their benefit really makes any difference. I told them to take my loan money, and they did, but then when my pell grant money arrived they sent it to me about two weeks after the money had been dispersed to them. I just recently received my 1098t form and on it the list my taxable income as being much lower than what it actually is. They basically lied and said they took my grant money part of my loan money, and made no mention as to why they are about $1,000.00 short on the form. Wouldn't that get ME in trouble when I file my taxes here in about a week?

I am going to this school for Information Technology, and ever since I enrolled I've had the thought that I've made a huge mistake . Going here for my associates degree is going to end up costing $19,000+. I am pretty sure that I want to transfer out of this school into one that is actually accredited in my field. The problem is that I have no idea what other schools would be good to go to, and would accept the credits from uophx. I don't want to waste the over 5k I have invested already. I currently have a 3.84GPA, and if you have any suggestions for an American citizen living outside the US currently please shoot me an e-mail or a reply to this message. Take note that a ground school isn't for me, because I have two very young kids (2 years, and 4 months). I seek a well accredited institution, and (no seriously it's not a joke) want to get my Bachelors from M.I.T. but I know that they will NOT accept UOPHX credits. Hell I wouldn't accept UOPHX credits if I were a gas station manager, let alone an actual real accredited university. You know what the biggest thing that angers me is? The instructors think that because they are employed by UOPHX they are geniuses. God, they might as well be Apple employees.

Thank you, N.
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#136 Consumer Comment

Thanx B

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Thank you B, yes it helps a bunch!

What other schools "may not matter but I live in CA" for an online degree in IT would you reco?
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#137 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Regis

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Tia,

Regis was one of the first traditional ground campuses to really embrace the online format. With that, they are ahead of the other traditional entities offering online courses and degrees. They are well known for the quality of their K-12 Masters of Education programs. I believe they have a few other offerings outside of Education as well. From what I know, they appear to have a solid program and good brand name. From what I have heard, they still treat admissions much like a traditional entity even for their online offerings, possibly requiring a series of essays to enter or even the GMAT or GRE exam.

I would say for education based programs, they would be a good option but please do your homework on their comprehensive services for out of state online students. Compare that to the overall time/cost investment vs. some other entities. The time/cost includes the pre-test costs if they still require those. Most of your for-profit online entities will not have the same testing requirements. Although Regis is a good program, I'm not sure any additional efforts or investments would pay more of a return to you than with any other online degree program from an accredited school.

Hope this helps.
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#138 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Regis

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Tia,

Regis was one of the first traditional ground campuses to really embrace the online format. With that, they are ahead of the other traditional entities offering online courses and degrees. They are well known for the quality of their K-12 Masters of Education programs. I believe they have a few other offerings outside of Education as well. From what I know, they appear to have a solid program and good brand name. From what I have heard, they still treat admissions much like a traditional entity even for their online offerings, possibly requiring a series of essays to enter or even the GMAT or GRE exam.

I would say for education based programs, they would be a good option but please do your homework on their comprehensive services for out of state online students. Compare that to the overall time/cost investment vs. some other entities. The time/cost includes the pre-test costs if they still require those. Most of your for-profit online entities will not have the same testing requirements. Although Regis is a good program, I'm not sure any additional efforts or investments would pay more of a return to you than with any other online degree program from an accredited school.

Hope this helps.
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#139 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Regis

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Tia,

Regis was one of the first traditional ground campuses to really embrace the online format. With that, they are ahead of the other traditional entities offering online courses and degrees. They are well known for the quality of their K-12 Masters of Education programs. I believe they have a few other offerings outside of Education as well. From what I know, they appear to have a solid program and good brand name. From what I have heard, they still treat admissions much like a traditional entity even for their online offerings, possibly requiring a series of essays to enter or even the GMAT or GRE exam.

I would say for education based programs, they would be a good option but please do your homework on their comprehensive services for out of state online students. Compare that to the overall time/cost investment vs. some other entities. The time/cost includes the pre-test costs if they still require those. Most of your for-profit online entities will not have the same testing requirements. Although Regis is a good program, I'm not sure any additional efforts or investments would pay more of a return to you than with any other online degree program from an accredited school.

Hope this helps.
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#140 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Regis

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Tia,

Regis was one of the first traditional ground campuses to really embrace the online format. With that, they are ahead of the other traditional entities offering online courses and degrees. They are well known for the quality of their K-12 Masters of Education programs. I believe they have a few other offerings outside of Education as well. From what I know, they appear to have a solid program and good brand name. From what I have heard, they still treat admissions much like a traditional entity even for their online offerings, possibly requiring a series of essays to enter or even the GMAT or GRE exam.

I would say for education based programs, they would be a good option but please do your homework on their comprehensive services for out of state online students. Compare that to the overall time/cost investment vs. some other entities. The time/cost includes the pre-test costs if they still require those. Most of your for-profit online entities will not have the same testing requirements. Although Regis is a good program, I'm not sure any additional efforts or investments would pay more of a return to you than with any other online degree program from an accredited school.

Hope this helps.
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#141 Consumer Comment

"B", How does Regis compare to UOP or the others that you do like?

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Hi, sorry if double post but don't see my original post. What are your thoughts regarding Regis University? Simple online degree bashers need not respond.

What is your opinion B and other intellegent people that are posting here.

TIA!
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#142 Consumer Comment

HELP!!

AUTHOR: Roberta - (U.S.A.)

My husband is in his 4th week of class and is interested in transfering to a different school but we are unsure of what will happen with his financial if he does this and now we are concerned with what will happen with the money that has already been given to UOP and the the two classes he is currently enrolled in through them. Do you have any advice as to what to do so that we do not come up with the same problems that others have come across?
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#143 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rocco Round 4

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Rocco came and played a game, a game he could not win
Elitist pride and undue ego, these traits were Rocco's sin
It's better to be thought a fool and simply close one's mouth,
Than to speak of things from ignorance and remove a single doubt
My daddy is a lobbyist the execs, they bow! you hail
Give poor old daddy's back a break and quit riding on his coattails.
Dartmouth is a top end school, a great place to begin.
But even at Dartmouth, as you prove, douchebags still get in

I would take a different approach here if you really want anyone to take you seriously.
At first you just appeared misinformed and a bit illiterate. After a few exchanges now you're revealed yourself to be a spoiled, elitist, ignorant, entitled, brat who rides his fathers successes as if they were his own. You are officially the male version of Paris Hilton.

Saying I win is typically code for, I'm getting my a** kicked in here and I have to pretend like I don't care and this is my last posting

What else you got Rocco?
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#144 Consumer Suggestion

Might as well give my last 2 cents

AUTHOR: Rockymasonicaccountant - (U.S.A.)

So u have assessed my intellect based off of a couple of posts and u call yourself logical? No the executives don't hang out with interns... USUALLY! My dad is a lobbyist i could get them on the phone right now if i bitched enough to him! U and I both know brick and mortar institutions are the best way to go if u want a better career!

Sitting in front of a screen all day can't teach u the things u need to know to succeed in life but college can. Say wat u will with ur online UOP mba but wat it comes down to is the statisics which show that online grads don't far as well in the job market as regular grads!

Im an undergraduate at dartmouth and u were a fly by hight con artist with a fake mba! I win =)
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#145 Author of original report

Response 3: Rockymasonicaccountant

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Ahhh, so disappointed.

See Rocky, I tried to keep this civil with a bit of sarcasm. It is obvious that your lack of intellect and insight into this topic leaves you resorting to insults and incoherent points. You revealed yourself truly with one comment. I AM AN INTERN (KPMG is a big company, I'm sure all the executives hang out with interns....) While I don't doubt the legitimacy of KPMG in the tax and audit field, the fact that you are an intern only proves many of the points I made earlier. The fact that you are an intern demonstrates that you lack significant knowledge and more importantly, the insight experience brings. This is why you're an intern. I am not knocking interns here, I hire interns too. I'm only knocking one intern who believes they know more about a subject they obviously know nothing about. In fact, your whole comprehensive doctrine surrounding online education seems to have been hijacked from a few other people's opinions, given that those opinions conveniently align with your belief system. Here's a thought, try thinking for yourself. Better yet, go experience something before you comment on it.

Elite? Perhaps you are referring to Ivy Leagues. Great, tell me this you educational fascist, what prompted the "Ivy League"? Let me give you a hint, it had nothing to do with academics If college athletics make institutions elite, then I guess the national champion each year means that's the best academic institution.

Do this, read through that series of posts between the two of us. Try to do this without personal bias, consider it an intern research project. Ask yourself, if you were a 3rd party reading this exchange, would you consider the points you make valid? Considering you have been completely outclassed in every aspect of this discussion I would figure you would just quit. I sincerely hope you don't because this just adds to my blog. The fact that you take the stance you take, but make the points you make, only supports my case that people who take issue with online education typically don't have a good reason why and cannot face the fire when it comes to a logical debate. Every time, without fail, they do what you have done.

With regards to my life and your LOL. You're an intern. Enough said.

Yes, a blog is a dorky hobby, but I obviously embrace it. You want to call me into question? Let's put it this way, you're basically calling me a loser. This reflects poorly on you. Not because you're a bad sport, but because if I am a loser, you just got your ass demolished and dominated in every way by some loser. Where does that leave you?

Anything else there Rocco? If not, the secretary on the 3rd floor is out of paperclips so get back to work.
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#146 Consumer Suggestion

Um ur not considered successful in my opinion

AUTHOR: Rockymasonicaccountant - (U.S.A.)

U worked for UOP and were low paid to do so i take it u don't have that gr8 of a job now right? I intern with KPMG ( sure hope u know the signifigance of that) and ive had several discussions with some of the hiearchy there and they believe online education for an undergraduate is a joke! Im not gonna debate with you anymore on the validity of online education b/c u can't debate the statistics of low job placement and lack of networking possiblities!

Im sure estanford or ecornell is just had hard to get into as the real institution and i never said many good colleges don't offer online programs! I SAID ELITE! Throw ur online piece of paper around all u want but instead of doing this how about u tell me where u are with ur life lol. So u as an employer would take excuses lol. Where the hell have u been corporations don't give a flying shit about ur family or your feelings!
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#147 Author of original report

RE: DIVA327

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Diva,
Did you take a class? By this I mean did you enter the class by logging in and posting 2 or more times in any given week?

If you did, you owe the money. Disclosure of failing to meet the minimum academic requirements for admission is your responsibility. They will say that you claimed to be eligible for the program you entered, so they allowed you into the program on good faith.

Their application for admissions requires that you submit minimum confirmation of educational background. If you did not enter anything on the prior educational history and can prove that your application shows you were ineligible and no one told you, you may have a chance to fight it. This is not impossible and I've seen advisors alter applications to show minimum requirements just so they can get the enrollment. However, you'll have to prove the advisor altered your application. The only way to do that is to prove another IP address, other than they ones you typically use, accessed your application website by logging in as you at any point in the admissions process.

Good luck with that.

In the end, 99.99% chance you will need to pay the money owed
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#148 Author of original report

Response 2: Rockymasonicaccountant

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Your comment: As an employer would u rather have an employee who had a rigorous concrete daily college schedule or an at your leisure online program?

Your tactic here is extreme contrasts. On one hand you place traditional education in the category of rigorous and on the other hand you place online in the category of leisurely. This is often seen in the with us or against us mentality. It is not that black and white. Having to show up at a specific time in a specific location does not mean the course was rigorous. Being able to access a course of study when your personal schedule allows you to does not mean the course is leisurely.

To respond to your statement above, I will do so as an employer. When I interview a candidate there are many elements I am looking at. Education is simply one of the elements. Educational background is a pre-screening qualify, not the determining factor in the quality of the candidate. As I review a resume, if I see that a candidate completed a bachelor or graduate degree and it is apparent they did so while working full time, it speaks volumes. If you assume that all online students simply lounge around all day and have no other responsibilities you are mistaken. If you want to talk about rigor, work an 8-9 hour day, commute an hour each way, pick your kids up, cook them dinner, help them with their homework, put them to bed the go to school. Traditional education has left these professionals largely without a viable option. Online opens the opportunity for them. Leisurely? I think not.

Let's also talk about the need for both theory and application. Reading Dr. Spock's book on raising a child and actually raising a child are very different things. This is not to say that theory isn't important. You learn a great deal of important foundational knowledge as an undergrad. But how you apply that knowledge in practice is critical. This is why internships and work-study programs are so valuable. So as an employer, who would you rather hire, someone that has all theoretical knowledge (traditional bachelor graduate) or someone who either completed internships as part of their program or who worked full time and attended an online college? For me, the fact that I know they obtained both the theoretical knowledge and the application experience is extremely valuable.

If you want to test this theory go find some young children. Spend two weeks explaining to them how to ride a bike, let them read a book on it, but don't let them get on a bike until they successfully pass a test over the information learned in the past two weeks. Once they pass, put them on the bike without training wheels and push them How many of them do you think will simply ride away smoothly vs. crashing? Next try the same thing with swimming Welcome to the world of business. This is why a bachelor degree from a traditional or online institution with no experience will only get you an entry level position 90% of the time. Who would I hire? Whoever the best candidate is. Let's be clear on something. Any degree, online or ground, guarantees nothing except and opportunity that may not be there unless you have it.

Your comment: If u come in to do the exam 10 minutes late well then u fail it!

Unfortunately, my employees must be late every now and then. If I assume they don't have lives outside of work, I'm foolish. Being 10 minutes late does not negate the need for their job to get done. This is a time management issue, not a something relevant to how well they actually do their job. You are contrasting social etiquette skills to theoretical & application based knowledge. Yes it is important personally and professionally to be on time. But if you think the only place you can learn how to do that is traditional college you are fooling yourself. This point has no relevance to traditional education quality being somehow superior to online or to the idea that traditional students are superior to online students. In the real world if I fired somebody every time they were late, I'd be dealing with a dysfunctional turnover rate and a production problem. Thus, out of business.

Your comment: In my opinion u simply don't get an adequate education without the deadlines and mandatory classroom time periods!

By this comment I can only assume you have no experience or limited experience with online education. If you did have experience, this comment would not have been made. Please try to avoid taking a stance such as this when it is obvious by conducting even the most minimal amount of research that online education does retain deadlines and even a mandatory class/time period at the majority of institutions.


Your comment: If online education isn't inferior to traditional education then how come most of the elite institutes do not offer online degrees?

Again, please do your research. Ever heard of Cornell (eCornell), Stanford, even Harvard? I would include the links but ROR blocks them out. There are literally hundreds of traditional, well known, well respects campuses offering online degrees and courses. Did you know you can get an online MBA from Colorado State? Here's one more, ever heard of Thunderbird College? Check them out and see if they are or are not considered one of the top business schools in the world then see if they offer an online degree


Your comment: Its wat you do that counts and online graduates simply don't cut it in the real world in my opinion!

I'm an online grad, I do very well in the real world. Please quantify what counts as cutting it. Considering two factors: 1. Online enrollment significantly outpaces that of traditional and even traditional education now offers online. 2. Online students are already in the real world. I would say your statement lacks weight.

Is your contention that a graduate of Colorado's St.s MBA program online is inferior to the graduate who attended ground? What if they did a mixed online/ground program? Is only the degree valid?

Your comment: Would people want to vote for a senator who sat at home on the computer all day during his college years?

Who knows. What we do know is that Americans are more than willing to vote for a coke sniffing, draft-dodging, alcoholic, C student with a speech impediment for a double term. I'm guessing online education is low on this list of no-no's when it comes to politics if good ole' Jorge is still in office. Let's face it, he's set the bar pretty low. Most people could trip over it, online degree or not
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#149 UPDATE EX-employee responds

No Info Verified

AUTHOR: Diva327 - (U.S.A.)

My EA nor the AA never verified my previous schooling info. I have graduated from high school yet, so how did I even attend college? Now I being sent to collections for non-paid courses. Can I fight this?
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#150 Consumer Suggestion

B...

AUTHOR: Rockymasonicaccountant - (U.S.A.)

I guess u and I have different views of education. I view education as a way to make yourself seem more appealing to potential employers and to gain practical real life skills. As an employer would u rather have an employee who had a rigorous concrete daily college schedule or an at your leisure online program? College is more about when you do the work than how u do the work or how well u do the work even. If u come in to do the exam 10 minutes late well then u fail it! Obviously u might learn more material if u can do it unrestrained by dates but in real life there r dates and deadlines.

In my opinion u simply don't get an adequate education without the deadlines and mandatory classroom time periods! If online education isn't inferior to traditional education then how come most of the elite institutes do not offer online degrees? Without the job placement and prominent alumni to back it up, wat is a university? I believe its the impact the university has on the world that makes it a worthwhile organization! Without that its just a paper mill.

Just having an impact on the minds of those who participate is simply not enough! Who cares wat you know or wat u say? Its wat you do that counts and online graduates simply don't cut it in the real world in my opinion! Would people want to vote for a senator who sat at home on the computer all day during his college years?
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#151 Author of original report

To: Rockymasonicaccountant

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Normally I welcome criticism focused at UOP. In this case, the comments you make are directed at online education in general. As I have stated many times in my posts herein, I am a supporter of online education. UOP is the issue, not online education. Because of that I'll put some time in here and respond to your points.

You began your post with What is UOP's career placement rate? As with any online institution, it is relatively low. This has nothing to do with the quality of education. It has to do with the student demographic population at an online college verses a traditional entity. If you look at the research (Check Eduventures) the overwhelming majority of online students are 1. Adults. 2. Professionals. This means they are already in a career looking to advance within their organization or field. It becomes obvious that a college with 1000 bachelor graduates or master graduates that have never held a career position would have a much higher career placement rate than an online college with 1000 graduates already working in career. Don't let a generational bias be your gauge for academic quality. One has nothing to do with another.

Your second point has to do with AACSB (I assume that's what you meant when referring to AASCB) AACSB Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business. Only institutions with business programs are eligible for AACSB. This has no reflection on their other academic offerings and programs. This is not a gauge of institutional academic quality or regulation as with regional accreditation. It is simply a gold star for a specific school within an entity. There are plenty of great institutions, online or traditional, that do not have AACSB accreditation for their schools of business. This point has no real relevance to the argument surrounding the academic quality between online and traditional. If you research the AACSB you'll find the focus of accreditation surrounds the full time faculty ratios and backgrounds, not the academic program delivery.

With regards to online accepting anyone, and that somehow being a bad thing, well I guess that point depends on how you look at it. Yes, top Ivy League & traditional institutions try to limit enrollment to the top percentile by pre-measuring tests & essays. Good for them. What about the other 98% of high school graduates? What about the other 3 billion working Americans that might want to advance their education, learn something, and better themselves? Is your stance that only certain people should have the privilege of learning? Is it fair to require a professional with 20 years experience to take a test geared towards recent graduates of high school? If that same business professional fails to hit a high score on the GMAT, does this mean they shouldn't be able to learn in a master degree? If this is your stance please consider this. Unless you are a wealthy, white male, not to long ago you too would have been viewed as someone not worthy of learning. Let's go ahead and put the academic elitism away for now.

An individuals potential is not always apparent via testing. Do I feel that there should not be some measurement of academic integrity? No. However, I believe that like most things, the proof is in the pudding. If someone should be failing a class because of sub-par academics, then they should fail the class. Many online colleges treat their students just like traditional colleges. Failure is failure. UOP tends to pass people just so they can get the next courses tuition dollars. This lowers the academic standard. This however, is not a gauge of online education, just UOP.

With regards to waking up in the morning and going to class. Kudos to you. But I don't remember simply waking up and going to class as being an indicator of your standard as a student, or the quality of an institution. Some folks have a job and a family. In your world I guess those are excuses and the only valid way to learn is to do it the same way as you. Again, academic elitism. Let's be real, when you learn is irrelevant. Your next point is on how you learn: Online vs traditional face to face. Okay, so this is essentially a proximity argument then? Great! Along those lines I should learn more when sitting in the front of the class than in the back. In fact, any interface outside of interpersonal face to face relation of knowledge is somehow invalid. This means that although you read an author's books, you didn't really learn anything because he or she didn't relay it to you in person. So pretty much any medium, TV, books, internet, music, telephone, video conference, etc. These are all things to be avoided as they are invalid forms of communication or relation of information

It's amazing that those mediums are so popular today considering that there is no way people are getting the same information they would if they were there in person. Okay, I'll put the sarcasm away for now. If you are going to say that online education is inferior simply because of the modus of delivery, you are taking a stance that fails every legitimate litmus test. It is not when or how someone learned, it is what and if they learned. If quality and legitimacy are measured by face to face medium, you can tell my online stock broker that I really don't need to pay him because his services don't count. I'm sure he'd disagree with you and his fat salary seems real enough

The difference between being an academic and being an academic elitist is this. An academic believes their way of learning/teaching is the best way for them to learn/teach. An academic elitist believes their way of learning/teaching is the best and only way for everyone to learn/teach. Kinda like being religious, or being a religious fanatic. It's a big leap from praying to jihad.

Last point about state schools ASU is a state school. ASU is by no means the gold standard of academics

In the end, if online is so far inferior to traditional, why are so many traditional entities offering online degrees? It either is or is not a valid form of education. It cannot be both. So we're much better off judging an individual institution's quality based upon track record and merit. The online vs. traditional argument no longer applies. There is too much grey area.

Enough with the academic elitism. The problem here is UOP, not online education.
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#152 Consumer Suggestion

What is UOP's career placement rate?

AUTHOR: Rockymasonicaccountant - (U.S.A.)

If all of this is true and it really is a diploma mill that would lead me to believe that most people who recieve degrees from this institution don't recieve job offers in their fields of study before or after graduation. I mean that is kinda pathetic its not even accredited by the AASCB. Even the lowest ranking state colleges where I live are accredited by AASCB.

I cannot believe some moron on here would compare this diploma mill to Ivy leagues. Ivy leagues accept only the top GPAs and test scores while this ripoff accepts anyone. U don't even have to take SAT, ACT GMAT, OR GRE!! WTF is up with that?

I love how the person defending UOP tries to bring up GPA lol. Who cares wat gpa u get in a fake online university? It doesn't count in real life if the school itself doesn't count! It sicken's me how people think that their online degree is just as valid as the one im working so hard right now for!

My degree is from a college where u have to get up in the morning and be there at the same time every day. Its not some online joke where u trade emails lol. I meet people face to face and learn how to deal with REAL people in REAL life not over the phone or on the internet!

Seriously Just go to a state school so u don't have problems with the validity of your degree
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#153 Consumer Comment

Former Student of WIU, AXIA, and now University of Phoenix!

AUTHOR: Kimberly - (U.S.A.)

Wow, your letter really hit home. I have been doing TONS of research lately on these three colleges and have been appauled. I am going to be brief because the more I talk about it them more upset I get... I recently transfered over to finish my degree to UOP. I started with WIU back in 2003. I was told I get a 20% discount on my classes because I am a spouse of active duty military and I was sold! I thought finally I can finish my degree online since we move around so much, needless did I know I was going to get the short in of the stick at the end.

Anyway to make a long story short I never got the 20% discount was transferred over to Axia to finish my associates (which I did), then UOP which I just completed my second class (and my last one) and just found out I paid 20,241.00 for an associates degree..unbelivable. It is not so much the amount but the fact that I was lied to and now they are saying they have nothing to do with WIU and they never offered a 20% discount at WIU or Axia...go figure. Of course no one works there anymore that helped me like my counsler who enrolled me Sanjeev the 20% guy... If anyone had the same military discount or knows about it the 20% back in 2003 I would greatly appreciate your help in proving them wrong! Sincerely, Kim
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#154 Consumer Comment

Current Student

AUTHOR: Destructo - (U.S.A.)

You'll be upset when you receive your first bill from UoP, and realize you agreed to pay $15K for an Associates degree, when you can enroll in a local community college and pay no more than $5K for the same degree.

I'm still in UoP, but only for another two weeks.
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#155 Author of original report

Response to Current Student in Wisconsin

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Response to Current Student in Wisconsin

Ladies and gentlemen who might be reviewing this post, please, please, I beg of you, read Mr/Ms Current Student's post. Notice he or she mentions a 3.5 GPA. This is the type of student you would be in class with Scary right?

If this guy or gall can pull a 3.5 GPA, I have a retarded hamster that will graduate Valedictorian

Current Student: Thanks again for supporting my cause, feel free to come back and post any time. Your post was freakin' awesome
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#156 Consumer Comment

A good way to tell if it is an "Accredited" institution

AUTHOR: Cheryl - (U.S.A.)

A friend of mine was contemplating signing up for Phoenix Online Classes and she wanted me to help her to fill out the financial information. She was a stay-at-home mom that did not have the time for campus classes. The cost was astronomical, but they made it look appealing to her because of the convenience of time. I put my phone on speaker so she could hear the conversation, then called the Registration Office at the University of Georgia in Athens. I asked them if they would accept credits from The University of Phoenix Online and they adamantly said no. If a school is in the "University System" they will accept credits from one school to the next - so if UOP is supposedly accredited, then why won't UGA take their credits on transfer? It's pretty clear to me. My friend decided not to enroll. Good call.
C
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#157 Consumer Comment

A good way to tell if it is an "Accredited" institution

AUTHOR: Cheryl - (U.S.A.)

A friend of mine was contemplating signing up for Phoenix Online Classes and she wanted me to help her to fill out the financial information. She was a stay-at-home mom that did not have the time for campus classes. The cost was astronomical, but they made it look appealing to her because of the convenience of time. I put my phone on speaker so she could hear the conversation, then called the Registration Office at the University of Georgia in Athens. I asked them if they would accept credits from The University of Phoenix Online and they adamantly said no. If a school is in the "University System" they will accept credits from one school to the next - so if UOP is supposedly accredited, then why won't UGA take their credits on transfer? It's pretty clear to me. My friend decided not to enroll. Good call.
C
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#158 Consumer Comment

A good way to tell if it is an "Accredited" institution

AUTHOR: Cheryl - (U.S.A.)

A friend of mine was contemplating signing up for Phoenix Online Classes and she wanted me to help her to fill out the financial information. She was a stay-at-home mom that did not have the time for campus classes. The cost was astronomical, but they made it look appealing to her because of the convenience of time. I put my phone on speaker so she could hear the conversation, then called the Registration Office at the University of Georgia in Athens. I asked them if they would accept credits from The University of Phoenix Online and they adamantly said no. If a school is in the "University System" they will accept credits from one school to the next - so if UOP is supposedly accredited, then why won't UGA take their credits on transfer? It's pretty clear to me. My friend decided not to enroll. Good call.
C
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#159 Consumer Comment

You are Just Bitter

AUTHOR: Current Student - (U.S.A.)

I feel that everyone that has something negative to say about University of Pheonix must be just plain evil. i have been enrolled with th university ofPhoenix since august of 2007 and i love it.

I talk with each of my councilors at least once a week and they explain anything new that is taking place and answer any questions that I have about my classes or the school. They are a grop of individuals who do not deserve alll the slander.

I believe that the writer of this repeort is just angry because they lost their job, get over it and move on, yo ay you were one of the top paid, if they were so bad you wold have worked there for the years you did and yu would especially wouldn't have went to the university yourself.

i have had nothing butgood things happen to me since i started this school. i t i right for me i go to school when i have time and i am doing great currently averaging a 3.5 GPA. i couldn't ask for a better school. When i need tutoring i just go to my campus in brookfield and they have workshops you can go to online. Other universities and colleges that i have researched have never been this dedicated to ther estudents and my instructor comments o eveyones discussion question and its like we all get one on one time with our instructors.

All i can say is that with out the University of Pheonix I don't know where i would be i have always wanted to go to college but i have two kids and work third shift as a receptionist and it just is not possible with my schedule but when i heard about UOP then everything changed and it chaged for the best. Now i m much closer to forfilling my dream of strting my own business as an event coordinator.

Thank you to all the staff and faculty and UOP. I really love you for giving me this oppurtunity that would never have been possible without you.
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#160 Author of original report

Response to your Question

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Argosy is a private for-profit entity. They typically have pretty good programs, services and support online. They do have multiple ground campuses throughout the US. Tuition is often a little higher than most people prefer, right around $1400 per online course and $54000 for a full 120 credit BA degree. That works out to $10,920 for a 24 credit hour academic year. This is due to the fact that Argosy uses Federal Funding and they know you are eligible for loans in the amount of:
$7400 yr 1
$8300 yr 2
$10,500 yr 3
$10,500 yr 4
$10,500 yr 5
Referring to a 24 credit hour academic year 120credits/24credits per year = 5 years.

Grand total = $47,200 in loans. So if you don't qualify for Pell Grants too, you're paying approximately $8,000 out of pocket for tuition assuming you're not transferring any credits. In my opinion, that's expensive. But that all depends on if you're starting as a freshman or a junior.


With regards to Fort Hays, I know very little about them. What I do know about traditional campuses trying to offer online degrees is that in general, they're not very good at it. In the movie Fight Club Brad Pitt makes a comment about "sticking feathers in your butt does not make you a chicken..." This rings true with traditional education entities suddenly offering online courses. There is more to online than just translating ground based curriculum into an online format. I would be weary of many traditional education entities who offer online. They don't invest money into servicing the online student's needs. They treat you like a ground based student, the problem is that you're not a ground based. I would drill them on their services for online students before enrolling.

If you're coming in as a freshman or sophomore, take a look at Rio Salado Online out of Arizona. It is a member of state funded Maricopa Community Colleges. You can get your AA degree for around $7200 then transfer elsewhere. If you're coming in as a junior or senior check out either National University for their psych program ($1215 per class) if you need to use a Stafford Loan. Or Northcentral University ($825 per class) if you're not planning on using a Stafford Loan.

Either way, good luck.

B
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#161 Consumer Comment

UoP -- I'm Out

AUTHOR: Destructo - (U.S.A.)

I've been enrolled with UoP for approximately six months now, and I can't stand it. The assignments are hard to understand, or even find to complete. Luckily, I have a federal grant, which is paying for my time there, but I'm dropping out at the end of this semester. I was all about UoP, until I started to realize the price for the education.

At UoP, I'll spend approximately $12K-15K for an associates degree, while I can goto a local community college, and have a better hands-on experience, for less than $5K. I can understand how UoP is getting money, simply because I work a full-time job, have a family, and have a son. I'm constantly busy, and wanted an easy way out. But, I've realized a simple conclusion, YOU CAN'T FIND AN EASY EDUCATION! So, with all that being said, quit trying to take the easy route, as it'll be much more difficult in the long run.

They are accredited, but as previously mentioned, it doesn't mean anything. I've learned that employers take an "online degree" as a waste of time and money.

The simple advice I can give, don't waste your time or money. It'll be tough, but find a local community college or university.
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#162 Consumer Comment

Question for you B

AUTHOR: Hb - (U.S.A.)

B-
I have enjoyed all of the information that you have provided! I was considering enrolling at the Western International University- initially, I was turned off by the "hard sell" approach that I have encountered so far. If they are so great, why are they trying to push me into enrolling?? After reading all of the comments on this thread, I will definately be looking elsewhere.....

In my research, I have come across a couple of schools- I am interested if you or anyone has any insight. I have read reviews- but it is so hard to know whether a disgruntled few are the minority or the majority! I am searching for an online program for psychology.

There is a school here in IL called "Argosy University" which apparently used to be associated with the IL Professional School of Psychology(associated with, or took it over- it is unclear to me). They offer live classes and online, and also have a PsyD program, if I decided to go for it.

The other school I found was Fort Hays State University- which I found on a "10 Best Buys" sight for online tuition costs....the tuition seems very reasonable, and it appears to be a real "brick& mortar" university. Appearances can be deceiving!
I realize I might be crossing lines here-that this is not a forum for online college reviews, but everyone involved in theis discussion seems very knowledgeable about this, and figured I could take the ridicule if I am angering anyone....
I will apologize for any typos, grammatical erors and mispellings- its been a long day, cut me some slack!

I appreciate your feedback, thank you for saving me from WIU!!
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#163 Author of original report

Unhappy People?

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Let's not confuse dissatisfied consumers with outright exploitation of tax dollars, investment dollars and misleading/unethical business practices. You are attempting to confuse the real issue through misdirection. Do you work for the Bush administration, Big Oil, Big Auto? Similar tactics have been used lately to justify the war, and lack of recognition regarding climate change.

Perhaps a better analogy would have been comparing UOP/Apollo to Enron, World Com, Global Crossing, Tyco

Here is one real issue. Last week Apollo lost a lawsuit filed by shareholders and must pay $280 Million in restitution ($5.50 per share). This was the direct result of Apollo's failure to disclose a scathing review regarding unethical recruitment practices by the US Department of Education. It was determined that Apollo willfully and intentionally withheld this information from its shareholders.

This leads us to the second real issue. UOP is in the business of education. Their regional accreditation is through the HLCNCA. As a sub-note here, this is not the same either Princeton which is Middle States or Yale which is New England Association. This is typically the catalyst for Federal Title IV Eligibility. As many realize, Title IV consists of Federal Grants, Subsidized and Unsubsidized Loans, and Loan Forgiveness Programs. As Federal Programs, this means that American Tax Dollars are used to fund these programs. In the case of UOP, at last count they used approximately $2 Billion in Title IV monies. As an organization that generates approximately $2.5 Billion in revenue annually, where do you think the vast majority of the money comes from? Next point. Federal Monies were created and intended for the purpose of assisting eligible persons in obtaining a better education. The intent of these monies was not to be used for corporate profiteering. As mentioned above, the recruitment practices of UOP have been, and continue to be questionable. Specifically regarding usage of Federal Monies to entice would-be students to engage a degree program without using personal monies.

Often, it is not disclosed to or understood by prospects, that enrolling in only 1 course does not allow them access to the Title IV funds. UOP has a notoriously high default rate on Federal Loan and Grant faults. Title IV Safe Harbor Rules exist to stop entities from using what appears to be no out of pocket temptations in the recruiting practices. While UOP stands by its POLICY of compliance for the compensation matrix for enrollment, the PRACTICE has been and continues to be one of paying enrollment advisors bi-annually based upon the number of students that enroll for, and successfully complete, 1 course.

In short, the PRACTICE at UOP, regardless of the policy they put forth, is to pay enrollment based upon enrollment performance. Because UOP is a Tile IV entity, access to money is an obstacle easily overcome. In the end, UOP is using Title IV Tax Payer Dollars, to entice students to enroll with limited out of pocket expense, in order to pad new enrollment numbers and revenues to report to shareholders and attract new investor monies. Brilliant? Yes. Ethical? No.

So your point, and comparison to Ford it irrelevant and avoids the real issue. Dissatisfied customers are merely a symptom. The illness is far worse than any one symptom. I would agree that Ford shares a similar illness called corporate greed. They simply go about manipulating the American consumer through lobbyists, pseudo-science, and limiting government interference when it comes to their product's environmental impact. Don't worry, eventually the truth will come out regarding big oil and auto makers. The truth regarding tobacco is now front and center in the TRUTH television campaigns. These show the lengths Big Tobacco went to hide the truth about their operations and product. We will see the same type of social revolt against auto/oil because of the environment sometime in the future.
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#164 UPDATE EX-employee responds

There will always be unhappy people

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

No matter what company one deals with, eventually there will be dissasified consumers. Does this mean the company is bad? Go ahead and check the number of dissatisfied Ford customers.

I was an Enrollment Counselor for UOP for nearly two years. I was one of the oldest employees there, being 50 when I started. UOP is a University designed for the adult learner.

I never lied to students. I didn't have to. UOP is a fully Regionally Accredited College the same as Princeton or Yale. The classes are geared towards the returning, older student: those working full time with families and additional obligations but the desire to complete the education put off over their lifetime.

Are the classes structured differently than a traditional college? Of course. Adults do not learn in the same manner as younger students. Adults learn by experiential education, younger students by rote. Therefore the learning team structure of the program.

Are recruitment personal paid by-the-student? No. That would be a violation of Accrediation Rules, just as paying Atheletes to attend a college is a violation. Do violations occur? Of course, and they are dealt with.

Are the degrees worth the paper they're written on? Ask any UOP graduate with a Bachelor's or Master's degree in a teaching position. Name me one school who would say that just because the Bachelor's degree was from University of Phoenix they are not qualified to teach.

Finally, look at the CLEP program. Why can one take a CLEP test, Score a 50%, and yet earn six credits toward their associate degree? Does that make the associates any less valuable? Or is one simple earning college credits for what oone may have learned in their lifetime.
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#165 Consumer Comment

Every College has serious problems

AUTHOR: Oslo - (U.S.A.)

1. Because you receive a paycheck from this college, you really are Polly Anna about it.

2. You shouldn't undermind the problems that many students have with business colleges as yours.

3. This web-site has saved me money, and many of the things that are complained about are true.

4. Consumers need a uncensored web site that allow a victims to give the facts about their own situation.

5. Shame on you, for trying to stamp out their right to do so.
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#166 Consumer Comment

I LOVE The University of Phoenix - and NO, it is NOT a rubberstamp education!

AUTHOR: Dharma - (U.S.A.)

I am currently a student of Axia College, and will be earning my Associate's Degree in Business Administration in two weeks. The last two years working with this college have been comprehensive, intensive, and sometimes exhausting. Yet, it is one of the most rewarding and educational experiences that I have ever had. Whenenver I needed help, there was someone there for me. The class schedules were rigorous, but specially designed to meet the needs of busy working adults.

Without a college like the University of Phoenix, I could never have gotten a college degree, and I will be forever grateful. And YES, they are fully accredited, work with government agencies, are accepted by the FAFSA program, and you can receive your Pell grant through them. This is no easy thing - not every college is accredited like this, and employers have exhibited respect and admiration for the degree. I live in Michigan, but I visited Arizona, and went to the main campus. I was more than happy with what I found there.

Also, there are satellite campuses all over the country, including Ann Arbor, MI (home of the University of Michigan). Disgruntled former employees should stop trying to ruin other people's dreams, and find something else to kvetch about. UOP is a real college, run by real people, and is accepted in the real world.
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#167 Author of original report

g-man

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Regarding the market saturation of UOP in the US and around the world, I would say that brand recognition is a different situation than brand quality. As UOP was one of the first to market in the late 70's and 80's they have had a 20+ year head start over most any other entity. This means that people recognize the name brand of University of Phoenix. However, this in my opinion has no relevance to UOP's true brand quality. Again, in my opinion UOP has been a great success at building brand recognition/expectation but a terrible failure at delivering on those expectations. After all, Enron had great brand recognition for a while but how was their quality? You would find it difficult to locate someone who did not recognize Michael Jackson or Britney Spears as they both have great brand recognition, but this is very different than how people personally feel about these two celebrities. High brand recognition and poor deliver is why blogs like this one and many others exist about UOP. Keep in mind, this blog and this entire site will retain mostly negative feedback about any institution or entity listed. Hence the name Rip Off Report.

With regards to your possible experience as an international student with UOP, I cannot speak from first hand experience as an international student and I was never an international advisor at UOP. I would tell you to ask your current enrollment advisor how long he or she will hold on to your file before handing it over to an academic advisor. For most regional students at UOP, the EA holds this student file for 1 class and then passes it off. This is where a significant decrease in customer service occurs. Most of the academic advisors at UOP are overworked and underpaid dealing with 300-500 students at any time. Beware that your support in the UOP program by advising may significantly drop off after your first course. If you are self-directed this should be no issue. The one positive I can say about UOP is they retain the most robust international academic and enrollment team anywhere in the industry. They are years ahead of pretty much any other online entity.

There is no reason to rush this. I would postpone starting right away and explore your options. Check out Walden, Capella, Argosy, Northcentral, Strayer, Grand Canyon. They all have options for international students. If it turns out that UOP is still your best option then start classes. I think you will find a better option exists.
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#168 Consumer Comment

Shocking news 'B'! need information.

AUTHOR: G-man - (U.S.A.)

I came across this discussion by accident, looking for other information UOPO. I am suppose to start UOP this coming week, now I am having second, third, fourth and fifth thoughs about it.

But my situation is a bit different from all of you, I am an international online student. Maybe 'B' can give a little advise on the possible pit falls that I might face. I am not reading alot of positive feedback from people who started UOPO, I am really concern at this point.

Here is a college that is known world wide, there has to be some good structure in there. Every where you look, there it is in your face UOP/UOPO.

Talk to me!

g-man
International Student
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#169 Consumer Comment

Thanx to B!

AUTHOR: Jacob - (U.S.A.)

I just wante to thank the author of this thread for opening my eyes into the world of private education. I am a Student at Southeast Community College in Lincoln, Nebraska, and I am studying Criminal Justice. I am returning to school to better myself, and my family. When I first applied to SCC I was interested in studying networking, and systems administration. After several months of little factual information, I was able to determine that their program was basically intended as vocational tech, not as prep to continue into a bachelors program. This prompted my to revert back to my original major in Criminal Justice, as I did not want a degree that would be worthless.

After declaring Criminal Justice as my major, I spoke with the Chairman of the department to get an idea of what direction I would need to go in order to get a bachelors from UNL after SCC. I was advised by this person that UNL would not accept Criminal Justice credits from SCC, much like no one will accept their Networking credits either. He then advised me that if I wanted a bachelors degreee, I would have to apply to either Bellvue University or Hamilton College.

Upon reading this thread, I did some serious looking into both of those schools, and was shocked to find out that they are little better than UOP. Hamiltons website would not even give specific information, it simply wanted you to give out large amounts of personal information, and await contact from them. The Bellvue website was vastly more informative, but I learned that for Criminal Justice the only offered what they term as an accelerated degree program. R

Further reading about it leads me to believe that the program is conducted in similar fashion to what I have read about UOP. To top all of this off, the cost per credit hour is nearly twice that of UNL or most other colleges.

I sincerely want to thank B for exposing the kind of things that private colleges will do in order to make money. I can honestly say that his postings on this site have saved me from making a costly mistake. I must also say that I am shocked that the local community college is so corrupt. I was born and raised in Tempe, AZ, and attended MCC part time off and on for a few years. After dealing with MCC and the Maricopa Community College system, I am shocked at all the differences between them, and SCC.

Thank you B,
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#170 Author of original report

Anon

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Thanks for the info. That's pretty interesting. Just be prepared for the backlash to come your way for pointing this out. Most people do not take kindly to truth when it takes them out of their safe little comfort zone.
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#171 Consumer Comment

STOP ATTENDING ALL THESE JUNK ON LINE SCHOOLS AND YOUR PROBLEMS WILL BE SOLVED

AUTHOR: Margaret - (U.S.A.)

All brick & morter colleges and community colleges offer on line classes now at reasonable state tuition rates. If everyone would just stop this Bull$#*& of attending these rip off places of higher education, you would not be getting yourselves in a financial bind, or having these rip off companies trying to ruin your credit. Then UOP, AXIA, STRAYER, CAPELLA, and who ever else Jon Doe for profit schools will close up shop and be gone for good!

These on line schools are a 100% rip off. I have taken a few on line classes through one of my local community college's and I am satisfied to know that its 100% accredited and transferable to any 4 year university, no questions asked.

Please everyone, stop giving yourself a heartache
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#172 UPDATE Employee

Keystone Mercy recommends University of Phoenix for their employees and eligible for their tuition reimbursement plan.

AUTHOR: Anon - (U.S.A.)

I came across the TaxPayers Against Fraud web site (wtaf.org) that listed Keystone Mercy Health Plan's $5 million fine
and the University of Phoenix's fraud case for illegal incentive payments to school recruiters both in a link dated
11/31/06

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.


interesting connection:

Keystone Mercy recommends University of Phoenix for their employees and eligible for their tuition reimbursement plan.

How Keystone Mercy, a non-profit processor of federal Medicare claims, can be oblivious to University of Phoenix's EEOC
settlements, low level of instruction, low graduation rate, inflated tuition, lack of accreditation by the Association to Advance
Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB) for their MBA and lack of GMAT, and the largest fine in history imposed by the Department of Education
makes me wonder if Keystone is just plain ignorant or willfully ignorant perhaps due to a vested interest on Keystone's part
such as stockholders in Apollo Group Inc (University of Phoenix's parent company) or promotions/positions secured via University of
Phoenix's worthless degrees.


Troubles Grow for a University Built on Profits 2/11/2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/education/11phoenix.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5088&en=5c8573d57de4bffe&ex=1328850000

KEYSTONE MERCY HEALTH PLAN TO PAY GOVERNMENT $5 MILLION
TO RESOLVE CIVIL LIABILITIES UNDER THE FALSE CLAIMS ACT
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/pae/News/Pr/2006/oct/Keystonepress.html

University of Phoenix fined $9.8 million by feds
(largest fine ever imposed by the United States Department of Education)
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2004/09/13/daily21.html


EEOC settles claim with University of Phoenix (religious discrimination)
The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has sued the University of Phoenix,
alleging religious discrimination against non-Mormon enrollment counselors 9/28/2006
http://www.aznews.us/university_of_phoenix_favors_mormons,_eeoc_says.htm


EEOC settles claim with University of Phoenix (sexual harassment)
http://www.newschannel10.com/Global/story.asp?S=7002114 11/29/2007
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#173 Consumer Comment

Wow, now there's cynicism for ya!

AUTHOR: Adam - (U.S.A.)

UOP poster said this,

"Don't be upset with the person who worked you over..."

I'm guessing anyone who's ever done business with you had trouble walking for a few months...But hey, if you can sleep at night, Rock On!
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#174 Author of original report

Consumer Onus

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

I will not argue that the onus is upon the consumer to educate themselves and scrutinize their options prior to rendering a decision.

I am not even going to get into the comment about the Federal Gov't being a business. I don't remember that part in the constitution Obviously fiscal responsibility is not this administration's strong point.

You made a couple of comments that need to be examined. First you say that if a person can't afford UOP don't go Later, you ask if an individual would buy a used caror a house without inspection? What we know about buying a car or a house is this: The vast majority of people who buy a car or home use a loan.

Typically, the type of car or home they buy is highly dependent on their ability to qualify for a car loan or home loan. If they cannot qualify for the loan, they do not get the car or home. This is not the case at UOP because of Title IV. Borrowers do not need to qualify for a Title IV Loan based upon credit or borrowing history. UOP knows this and they use this fact to sell loans to a sub-prime borrowing market.

Considering UOP uses about $2Billion a year in Federal Title IV, and considering UOP's extremely high loan default rate per capita, UOP would not be in business if suddenly Title IV loans required a credit check. We have seen what happens when you lend money to sub-prime borrowers in the housing market. It makes a mess.

Yes, the onus is on the consumer. Why is their no obligation by the corporate entity to operate at some type of minimally ethical level? Money Trumps all things and as long as there is profit to be made by those in power, any action can be justified even illegal wars.

You say that you can't stand people who claim they have been duped. Perhaps you are projecting your own ability to scrutinize and be skeptical about things on others assuming that others retain the same ability. Unfortunately that is not the case. If it hasn't been obvious in the last two presidential elections, approximately 50% of Americans are easily duped.

Education is critical to remedying the lunacy, backward thinking, and brainwashing that has somehow convinced the majority in this country that scrutinizing government and for-profit corporations is unpatriotic. UOP is an educational entity and they participate in the same practice of taking advantage of the trust some people place in others.

Especially individuals that one might safely assume have their best interests in mind. I am guessing many Catholics thought it was safe to leave their little boy with a priest. I am guessing that many prospects who speak to a UOP counselor assume this individual will act in their best interest. While you may know better, others obviously do not. For this reason, information such as that which is provided herein is necessary. At minimal, someone who comes here and reads this will know to be weary of what they are being sold and conduct their own research.

With regards to offering opinions about personal experiences rather than brushing off the responsibility onto someone else, all I have done here is share my experiences and opinions, I have also taken on the responsibility for many things.

What I will not take responsibility for or will I accept any excuses for are things I saw happen as an employee. Management decisions and directives were made knowing full-well that such decisions would have a negative impact on the workforce and student population. Beyond that, anything that was viewed as something UOP could get away with was okay regardless of how unethical. Of all the shady things I saw happen, the only time I saw individuals terminated were in cases where there was a paper trail. Forged documents, forged applications, forged FAFSA applications, fake SFA agreement, etc.

While the onus is on the consumer, it is time for the consumer to start holding these entities to a higher standard. As it is the American people working within these entities, we can no longer afford to mentally segregate our actions as employees from our actions as individuals.
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#175 Author of original report

Consumer Onus

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

I will not argue that the onus is upon the consumer to educate themselves and scrutinize their options prior to rendering a decision.

I am not even going to get into the comment about the Federal Gov't being a business. I don't remember that part in the constitution Obviously fiscal responsibility is not this administration's strong point.

You made a couple of comments that need to be examined. First you say that if a person can't afford UOP don't go Later, you ask if an individual would buy a used caror a house without inspection? What we know about buying a car or a house is this: The vast majority of people who buy a car or home use a loan.

Typically, the type of car or home they buy is highly dependent on their ability to qualify for a car loan or home loan. If they cannot qualify for the loan, they do not get the car or home. This is not the case at UOP because of Title IV. Borrowers do not need to qualify for a Title IV Loan based upon credit or borrowing history. UOP knows this and they use this fact to sell loans to a sub-prime borrowing market.

Considering UOP uses about $2Billion a year in Federal Title IV, and considering UOP's extremely high loan default rate per capita, UOP would not be in business if suddenly Title IV loans required a credit check. We have seen what happens when you lend money to sub-prime borrowers in the housing market. It makes a mess.

Yes, the onus is on the consumer. Why is their no obligation by the corporate entity to operate at some type of minimally ethical level? Money Trumps all things and as long as there is profit to be made by those in power, any action can be justified even illegal wars.

You say that you can't stand people who claim they have been duped. Perhaps you are projecting your own ability to scrutinize and be skeptical about things on others assuming that others retain the same ability. Unfortunately that is not the case. If it hasn't been obvious in the last two presidential elections, approximately 50% of Americans are easily duped.

Education is critical to remedying the lunacy, backward thinking, and brainwashing that has somehow convinced the majority in this country that scrutinizing government and for-profit corporations is unpatriotic. UOP is an educational entity and they participate in the same practice of taking advantage of the trust some people place in others.

Especially individuals that one might safely assume have their best interests in mind. I am guessing many Catholics thought it was safe to leave their little boy with a priest. I am guessing that many prospects who speak to a UOP counselor assume this individual will act in their best interest. While you may know better, others obviously do not. For this reason, information such as that which is provided herein is necessary. At minimal, someone who comes here and reads this will know to be weary of what they are being sold and conduct their own research.

With regards to offering opinions about personal experiences rather than brushing off the responsibility onto someone else, all I have done here is share my experiences and opinions, I have also taken on the responsibility for many things.

What I will not take responsibility for or will I accept any excuses for are things I saw happen as an employee. Management decisions and directives were made knowing full-well that such decisions would have a negative impact on the workforce and student population. Beyond that, anything that was viewed as something UOP could get away with was okay regardless of how unethical. Of all the shady things I saw happen, the only time I saw individuals terminated were in cases where there was a paper trail. Forged documents, forged applications, forged FAFSA applications, fake SFA agreement, etc.

While the onus is on the consumer, it is time for the consumer to start holding these entities to a higher standard. As it is the American people working within these entities, we can no longer afford to mentally segregate our actions as employees from our actions as individuals.
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#176 Author of original report

Consumer Onus

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

I will not argue that the onus is upon the consumer to educate themselves and scrutinize their options prior to rendering a decision.

I am not even going to get into the comment about the Federal Gov't being a business. I don't remember that part in the constitution Obviously fiscal responsibility is not this administration's strong point.

You made a couple of comments that need to be examined. First you say that if a person can't afford UOP don't go Later, you ask if an individual would buy a used caror a house without inspection? What we know about buying a car or a house is this: The vast majority of people who buy a car or home use a loan.

Typically, the type of car or home they buy is highly dependent on their ability to qualify for a car loan or home loan. If they cannot qualify for the loan, they do not get the car or home. This is not the case at UOP because of Title IV. Borrowers do not need to qualify for a Title IV Loan based upon credit or borrowing history. UOP knows this and they use this fact to sell loans to a sub-prime borrowing market.

Considering UOP uses about $2Billion a year in Federal Title IV, and considering UOP's extremely high loan default rate per capita, UOP would not be in business if suddenly Title IV loans required a credit check. We have seen what happens when you lend money to sub-prime borrowers in the housing market. It makes a mess.

Yes, the onus is on the consumer. Why is their no obligation by the corporate entity to operate at some type of minimally ethical level? Money Trumps all things and as long as there is profit to be made by those in power, any action can be justified even illegal wars.

You say that you can't stand people who claim they have been duped. Perhaps you are projecting your own ability to scrutinize and be skeptical about things on others assuming that others retain the same ability. Unfortunately that is not the case. If it hasn't been obvious in the last two presidential elections, approximately 50% of Americans are easily duped.

Education is critical to remedying the lunacy, backward thinking, and brainwashing that has somehow convinced the majority in this country that scrutinizing government and for-profit corporations is unpatriotic. UOP is an educational entity and they participate in the same practice of taking advantage of the trust some people place in others.

Especially individuals that one might safely assume have their best interests in mind. I am guessing many Catholics thought it was safe to leave their little boy with a priest. I am guessing that many prospects who speak to a UOP counselor assume this individual will act in their best interest. While you may know better, others obviously do not. For this reason, information such as that which is provided herein is necessary. At minimal, someone who comes here and reads this will know to be weary of what they are being sold and conduct their own research.

With regards to offering opinions about personal experiences rather than brushing off the responsibility onto someone else, all I have done here is share my experiences and opinions, I have also taken on the responsibility for many things.

What I will not take responsibility for or will I accept any excuses for are things I saw happen as an employee. Management decisions and directives were made knowing full-well that such decisions would have a negative impact on the workforce and student population. Beyond that, anything that was viewed as something UOP could get away with was okay regardless of how unethical. Of all the shady things I saw happen, the only time I saw individuals terminated were in cases where there was a paper trail. Forged documents, forged applications, forged FAFSA applications, fake SFA agreement, etc.

While the onus is on the consumer, it is time for the consumer to start holding these entities to a higher standard. As it is the American people working within these entities, we can no longer afford to mentally segregate our actions as employees from our actions as individuals.
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#177 Author of original report

Consumer Onus

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

I will not argue that the onus is upon the consumer to educate themselves and scrutinize their options prior to rendering a decision.

I am not even going to get into the comment about the Federal Gov't being a business. I don't remember that part in the constitution Obviously fiscal responsibility is not this administration's strong point.

You made a couple of comments that need to be examined. First you say that if a person can't afford UOP don't go Later, you ask if an individual would buy a used caror a house without inspection? What we know about buying a car or a house is this: The vast majority of people who buy a car or home use a loan.

Typically, the type of car or home they buy is highly dependent on their ability to qualify for a car loan or home loan. If they cannot qualify for the loan, they do not get the car or home. This is not the case at UOP because of Title IV. Borrowers do not need to qualify for a Title IV Loan based upon credit or borrowing history. UOP knows this and they use this fact to sell loans to a sub-prime borrowing market.

Considering UOP uses about $2Billion a year in Federal Title IV, and considering UOP's extremely high loan default rate per capita, UOP would not be in business if suddenly Title IV loans required a credit check. We have seen what happens when you lend money to sub-prime borrowers in the housing market. It makes a mess.

Yes, the onus is on the consumer. Why is their no obligation by the corporate entity to operate at some type of minimally ethical level? Money Trumps all things and as long as there is profit to be made by those in power, any action can be justified even illegal wars.

You say that you can't stand people who claim they have been duped. Perhaps you are projecting your own ability to scrutinize and be skeptical about things on others assuming that others retain the same ability. Unfortunately that is not the case. If it hasn't been obvious in the last two presidential elections, approximately 50% of Americans are easily duped.

Education is critical to remedying the lunacy, backward thinking, and brainwashing that has somehow convinced the majority in this country that scrutinizing government and for-profit corporations is unpatriotic. UOP is an educational entity and they participate in the same practice of taking advantage of the trust some people place in others.

Especially individuals that one might safely assume have their best interests in mind. I am guessing many Catholics thought it was safe to leave their little boy with a priest. I am guessing that many prospects who speak to a UOP counselor assume this individual will act in their best interest. While you may know better, others obviously do not. For this reason, information such as that which is provided herein is necessary. At minimal, someone who comes here and reads this will know to be weary of what they are being sold and conduct their own research.

With regards to offering opinions about personal experiences rather than brushing off the responsibility onto someone else, all I have done here is share my experiences and opinions, I have also taken on the responsibility for many things.

What I will not take responsibility for or will I accept any excuses for are things I saw happen as an employee. Management decisions and directives were made knowing full-well that such decisions would have a negative impact on the workforce and student population. Beyond that, anything that was viewed as something UOP could get away with was okay regardless of how unethical. Of all the shady things I saw happen, the only time I saw individuals terminated were in cases where there was a paper trail. Forged documents, forged applications, forged FAFSA applications, fake SFA agreement, etc.

While the onus is on the consumer, it is time for the consumer to start holding these entities to a higher standard. As it is the American people working within these entities, we can no longer afford to mentally segregate our actions as employees from our actions as individuals.
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#178 Consumer Comment

response to B

AUTHOR: Uop Graduate - (U.S.A.)

B --

I can understand that you might disagree with the enrollment practices at UOP. I submit that it is still a business! All colleges, universities, and even our Federal Government are businesses with profit in mind. I think it is the wise student that realizes this. People should (granted in my opinion) choose schools for a variety of reasons.

UOP fit my life style and budget just fine. If a person can't afford UOP don't go. If you don't like the education, leave. If you need an advisor to tell you how to read a class schedule and set your classes up, find one. As for the enrollement staff who ran to the building at 4am -- kudos to them. Get the sale. Should I believe that no other school is as interested in increasing enrollement? It is a buyer beware world where no one person deserves more consideration than another.

I have worked hard for all I have. I take full responsiblity for my decisions and the consequences. My disagreement with some of the posts on this site are in that they discount the student's responsibility in the entire transaction. I can't stand people who claim they have been duped. How is this possible? Do your homework. Be prepared for the consequences of your actions. Don't be upset with the person who worked you over -- learn from it. If anyone thinks they have been "tricked, sold, duped, lied to" it is their responsibility to determine the facts BEFORE signing anything. So, if in fact UOP treats enrollments like they are selling used cars -- they are pretty damn good at it. Would you buy a used car without information? A house without an inspection? Your education is just a big purchase and should be treated as such.

How about offering opinions about personal experiences rather than brushing off the responsibility for the outcome onto someone else?
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#179 Author of original report

To UOP Grad

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

I recently EARNED my MBA through UOP Online. I have gone to the 'brick and mortor' schools to earn my two AA degrees and BA degree. I chose UOP Online because of my fathers good experience with UOP and my personal need for flexible education.

This is an apples and oranges comparison. To make this point valid you would need to go take and MBA program or courses at a traditional ground campus. I would even recommend trying an MBA at a UOP competitor online. Somewhere with at least a minimal screening process. Walden or GCU for example. Then you can draw contrast.

I found the MBA program to be as challenging, if not more challenging than my traditional education experience.

Considering your traditional coursework was at the AA and BA levels, if the UOP masters degree was just as challenging, you have a problem. The masters degree should be more challenging that an AA or BA.

I think that there are some important points to be made about accusations against UOP for less-than-honorable enrollment practices. Let me start by saying I have not worked for UOP in any position, nor do I know anyone who does. My enrollment experience was this -- I made the phone call to UOP. I asked to be enrolled.

Yes, you would have been known as a floor call in UOP jargon. Your group would make up approximately 1% of the total conversations had on any given day at UOP. What that means is that they vast majority of the people enrolling have been solicited by phone. I could tell some stories surrounding how valuable these floor calls were viewed by EA's desperate to hit their enrollment numbers. But that would be another story.

I will share one story as it is relevant to my next point here. I remember (before the overtime suit in 2004). UOP Floor Calls were distributed based upon a phone login. The earlier the advisor logged into their phone in the morning, the higher the chances were that they would receive a floor call.

What this meant, is that advisors would be waiting outside the building at 4AM for the doors of the building to open. When they did you would see dozens of people sprinting to their work station trying to log onto their phone to get into the call queue. That is how desperate people were to get enrollments.

To make my point, if you think that an individual would be willing to show up to work 2-3 hours before their shift, sprint to the phone to login, refuse to take a break or lunch before their floor call came, BUT somehow not be willing to bend the truth or outright lie to a prospect to get them to enroll, you are delusional. So yes, I concede that not every student at UOP was duped into enrolling or lied to, it does not change the fact that many of them were.

I did have some poor experience with changes in counselors, advisors and such, but to be perfectly honest -- I didn't need these people.

That is fine, you were obviously self-directed. Not every individual shares that trait. Some need and deserve assistance. Wouldn't you expect some level of service for $1700 a class? This is online, the classes don't cost that much to facilitate. The reason the academic advisors often don't care is because they slum them out and don't pay them nearly enough. If UOP cared about service or retention, Academic Advisors would make more than Enrollment Advisors.

I chose UOP because I work 12 hour days. I have two children and a husband that desire a little attention too. I leave my house at 630am and return any where from 630pm to 830pm. I also work rotating Saturdays. I would 'attend' class all times of the day.

No one is faulting the working busy adult for wanting education. UOP has brand recognition strength, but weak brand delivery strength in general. There are many other colleges that could have delivered education to you around your schedule.

Right now there are others doing better and cheaper than UOP. UOP is still growing, but these other institutions are taking huge chunks out of their market share. Hopefully this forces UOP to do it better. They have such a huge head-start, I believe that will take a while.

I would encourage any prospect student to get information from a variety of sources before enrolling at any school.

I couldn't agree more. That is why this site exists. Maybe it would not have deterred you from calling and enrolling years ago or maybe it would have. It depends on whether or not you consider yourself a shrewd consumer.

Do we stigma those who started at community colleges? Compare the cost and enrollment procedures and those influences that affect enrollement. How about any college that visits high schools to intice children to enroll in their school? Schools that pursue athletes? Schools that actively pursue the children of well-to-do alumni? I am sure Harvard has enrolled students that we laymen might not think are Harvard caliber.

This issue here is lying to students to get them to enroll. The issue here is misuse of Federal Title IV funding (tax dollars) in order to turn a prophet. The issue here is price gouging for years as a monopoly existed for online education. The issue here is failure to demonstrate any type of ethical compass for their employees or students. The issue here is lawsuit. The issue here is shady stock gifting. The issue here is violation of Title IV Safe Harbor Rules. The issue here is lack social responsibility. Get it?

There is a major difference between recruitment and what UOP has done. There is a difference between sales, and doing whatever it takes to make the sale. If an organization is taking the shady used car salesman approach to sell you a degree, just like some used car lots, what you are getting just might be a lemon.


With regards to the alumni of UOP. I am sure there are still some pretty impressive people in the program and a few more that have graduated from there. What I can tell you is their reputation has come under serious scrutiny because of the SEC investigations and HLC mandates. Considering it takes 2-3-4 years to finish a degree in most cases. I would assume that many of the graduates you saw had enrolled prior to these issues coming to light. If nothing changes, I doubt we will continue to see "A-list" alumni coming out of UOP. One things for sure, they wont be employees of Intel...
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#180 Consumer Comment

UOP Grad, good experience

AUTHOR: Uop Graduate - (U.S.A.)

Reading this "ripoff report" has been interesting to say the least. I would like to offer insight into my experience with UOP Online.

I recently EARNED my MBA through UOP Online. I have gone to the "brick and mortor" schools to earn my two AA degrees and BA degree. I chose UOP Online because of my fathers good experience with UOP and my personal need for flexible education.

I found the MBA program to be as challenging, if not more challenging than my traditional education experience. As in traditional classes, I had my difference of opinion with some instructors and always had one or two students in class that I just didn't mesh with. I actually had worse experiences in traditional school.

I think that there are some important points to be made about accusations against UOP for less-than-honorable enrollment practices. Let me start by saying I have not worked for UOP in any position, nor do I know anyone who does. My enrollment experience was this -- I made the phone call to UOP. I asked to be enrolled. I was asked my background, my GPA, my reasons for wanting to be part of the UOP program, and my intentions for my new degree. I was not asked to take the GMAT. I did well on SAT's and the OCS exam for the US AirForce (I was one of two in testing session that actually passed the pilots exam). I have always done well acedemically. No enrollment counselor had to sell me or convince me. I made a choice on my own. I take pride in that. There must be some credit given to the fact that student initiate contact with the school.

I did have some poor experience with changes in counselors, advisors and such, but to be perfectly honest -- I didn't need these people. I attended class, completed assignments, and EARNED my grades. Please don't fault UOP students simply for where they have attended. I can produce all of my papers and am confident they will earn the same grades at any other traditional school. As for the problems with transferring credits, I experienced this problem at traditional schools! I earned an AA in poli sci and when I transferred to an out-of-state school to finish my BA, I found that I would have to re-take two classes to complete my BA because the credits did not include TEXAS specific ciriculum. I find that no different that UOP credits transferring or not transferring to other schools.

I chose UOP because I work 12 hour days. I have two children and a husband that desire a little attention too. I leave my house at 630am and return any where from 630pm to 830pm. I also work rotating Saturdays. I would "attend" class all times of the day. I could log in during lunch or downtime and read and read and read and read, take notes and be prepared to offer my "attendance" at night after making dinner, doing laundry and sending the kids off to bed. I don't have the luxury of living with mom and dad and attending a traditional school. I found UOP to be challenging (and please, no comments on my ability to enroll at any other traditional school -- I can prove that I can) and most importantly, easy to fit into my schedule. I am now pursuing a change in careers to allow me to spend more time with my family while not taking a pay cut. I have not had any prospective employer disqualify me from an interview because my degree was earned at UOPO. In fact, I took today off because I have an interview for another job.

I would encourage any prospect student to get information from a variety of sources before enrolling at any school. I also offer these final thoughts:

Do we stigma those who started at community colleges? Compare the cost and enrollment procedures and those influences that affect enrollement. How about any college that visits high schools to intice children to enroll in their school? Schools that pursue athletes? Schools that actively pursue the children of well-to-do alumni? I am sure Harvard has enrolled students that we laymen might not think are Harvard caliber.

If UOP is so terrible a school, why then do persons in US Govt, Arizona State Govt, Superbowl, and other prestigious organizations agree to appearances or associations with UOP - in particular UOP Online. (You should have seen the faces at our graduation ceremony presentation!)

If the education is so poor, why is UOP so popular with adults with established careers and reputations, why are many of our military attending, and WHY is attendance so wide spread. You should have seen how many people flew to Phoenix to graduate this summer from the online program. The online program graduates have to go to Phoenix if they want to "walk". If this was just a piece of paper - bought and paid for, why would so many flock to Glendale, spend money, just for a walk across a temporary stage? We students take pride in our accomplishments, thats why! We don't just "feel", we know that we earned our degrees and will go on to contribute!

Kudos to all students who have earned their degrees! Every school has their fair share of employees, students, and community advocates who have disputes, disagreements and complaints. Take everything with a grain of salt!
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#181 Consumer Comment

(Applause....) Awesome B....

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

At the risk of diminishing your post B, just a brief point.

The problem is not with any one UOP employee, but rather a corporation which practices bad business. The scope and breath of problems at UOP can, in my opinion, only be explained by leaders who have placed profit far and above the interests of students. How else could you have one of the corporate officers at UOP, according to a US Dept of Education report, openly speaking of subverting government regulations meant to protect students (while benefiting from tax payer dollars in the way of student loans)?

The saddest thing of all is that the folks at the top, who set policy, procedure and practice, will likely walk away from the table being handsomely rewarded for their work. All the while rank and file employees come to sites like this "carrying the water," defending this school. Sad sad sad.
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#182 Author of original report

Since you asked for it

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

With all the directions I could possibly take this I am going to go pretty easy on Ron as it is apparent from his post that he is a very delicate flower.

Dude, grow a set.

Let's start with the basic misread of the name of this site. Rip Off Report seems to denote the concept that if there is a business that makes in onto this site, the content of the posting does not rain praise down upon that business. If you didn't want to hear what UOP has done, is doing, and will keep on doing to many consumers, I would say you should probably avoid this site. Especially considering that mine is not the only thread in ROR about UOP. There are many more. Also, knowing your delicate sensitivities I doubt your shrink would condone you looking here. That's like sending a young bulimic girl with body image issues, a years subscription to both Play Boy and Fine Dining Magazine.

Next, I mention repeatedly that there are 'good people working at UOP trying to do things right'. Obviously you feel you are one of them. I will not debate that claim. However, this does not excuse you, as it did not excuse me, from contributing to the perpetuation of a corrupt entity which regardless of any good it might serve, cannot amend for the damage is has done and is doing. I tried to change it from the inside. It did not work and I was still enrolling students into a program that does not have their best interest in mind. You are in the same situation. Who knows, maybe you will have more success than I did attempting to change things for the better there. I highly doubt it.

Next, your anger, angst, ire, resentment and malcontent are completely misplaced. You are essentially blaming the victims of UOP for making you feel bad about the fact that the company you work for, screwed them over. If you want to be angry, be angry at UOP for what they have done. Right now you are angry at those who have told their story and at me for giving their story validation. I do not blame you for thinking this way. Most individuals can self-justify anything the 'group' they belong to is involved in no matter how heinous. They simply say 'I'm not doing it' even if the company, group, system or country they exist within is doing it. This explains the crusades, the inquisition, the Holocaust, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Darfur, and most recently, Iraq. Indirect association does not cleanse you of being complicit. When it comes to UOP we are both guilty, this is my penance. What will be yours? You are only stupid if you fail to realize the truth of what has been said herein.

Next, as for this website being dedicated to all things negative, obviously as stated earlier you missed the point where ROR is a site (not mine) dedicated to listing negative reviews about businesses. Where I differ, as you can see from the posts directly above this exchange, I offer legitimate advice in the hopes that it will help people make informed decisions. The negative comes when people enter my specific thread with the intent of defending UOP using false claims and invalid rhetoric. I have not had a single person negate the claims made herein because everything I have said has been validated by investigations, lawsuits, employee/consumer testimonies, DOE reports, AZDOL reports, stock reports, etc. Most people who enter this site on the attack are doing so because of the issues discussed in the paragraph above. They are angry because of the claims made against the group they belong to and need to defend it because they feel they must defend themselves. How is it that you and others can differentiate yourselves from the unethical and questionable practices at UOP, but you are unable to differentiate yourself from UOP when someone attacks it? Seems strange!

Next, (people need to understand what UOP is and let it be). I couldn't agree more. If more people were aware they would let UOP alone and UOP would have to change or go out of business, thus solving the problems. The debate is not whether UOP is trying to be a traditional university. The debate for me is 'should a business, posing as an educational institution, be allowed to: A. Utilize tax dollars through Federal Financial Aid as a for-profit business. B. Be allowed to continue to operate in an unethical and duplicitous manner?' I vote no and I write about why herein. You vote yes, but only because part of the money being exploited from US Taxes goes to pay your salary. If you didn't work there or never worked there, how would you feel about the situation? Exactly!

You may think you wasted your time in this blog on ROR. Obviously it bothered you enough to keep reading and write back. If what I say lacks credibility, why did it bother you, why did you write? My purpose has been served here because now you can't claim ignorance to the problems of the company you work for. Whether or not you acknowledge the problems is your choice.

I am not the problem. Do you blame the smoke alarm for the fire? You may not like what I have to say. You may not like to be waked at 2:00am to a loud smoke alarm. You can take out the batteries or choose not to read this blog. That's the amazing thing about choice. But if you make that choice and remove the batteries or ignore the obvious I point out herein, you can't cry about it when you get burned. And from what I have seen Ron, you strike me as someone that just might cry.
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#183 UPDATE Employee

Thanks for informing me that I am a hopeless, unethical, stupid loser

AUTHOR: Ron - (U.S.A.)

Based on the comments I have been reading here, it appears that I might as well just quit my job, drop out of school and simply give up on everything that i believe and apologize to everyone. This is because I am aparently stupid enough and unethical enough to believe that I am living a legitimate life and earning an honest wage as an enrollment counselor at the "evil empire" of the University of Phoenix. Gosh, I was so deceived as to actually believe that I was helping people better themselves by going to school when they could not go to school any other way. I was even stupid enough to believe that it was a good thing for me to also go to school and complete my own degree after being unable to get back to school after several years.
To the likes of B and others, I am so upset I cannot even express to you my anger and frustration. You have effectively destroyed the validity of my vocational and educational goals in your arrogance. It's as if people like me and the folks I am helping have a second chance at college that are unable to attend a traditional school are somehow unworthy or ineligible of even having a place at the table.

Go ahead and tear me to shreds in this forum. Go ahead and insult me and destroy my character. I'm sure I've even got a few grammar and spelling errors, too. Call me stupid and unethical because of where I work and where I go to school. Pronounce doom and non-success on me because I somehow was unable to to go to a traditional school or work somewhere else. The biggest mistake I've made is all the ridiculous amount of time I've spent on this website tonight instead of working on my paper!

This is nonsense! I work at U of P and most of the negative portrayal by B and others is just a lot of whining. Yes, it is difficult, but for heaven's sake, the portrayal of us all being a bunch of monsters is absolutely demoralizing. I have had it! There is geniuine concern in our division for the well being for students. i am NOT being pressured by management to get "asses in the classes" or any other such nonsense. I have read so much nonsense in these websites it is amazing. Some of you people out there are willing to believe anything negative! And you call us the suckers??!! Gimme a break!!

B is just more compelling in his posting because he is willing to take more time to spew his views here. He is really on a mission to promote and magnify anything negative about U of P possible. I don't know why it is so important to him to magnify and emphasize everything that is negative. There are so many more things that are positive about U of P. There are thousands of students and employees who are happy and finding a second chance in their careers or educational goals. It may not be Harvard, but it is a legitimate, accredited school that is recognized by employers. It works for thousands of working adults like myself who would not otherwise be able to go to college at all. If I had unlimited resources and options, U of P may not be the best choice, but for the working adult it makes sense.

People need to understand what U of P is and just let it be. It never has been nor is it trying to be a traditional university, so stop trying to judge it as if it were! I spend my whole life trying to be positive and B and this entire website is completley dedicated to all things negative. What a waste. I need to get out of here. I am thoroughly depressed and seriously feeling like quitting my job and quitting school. This is NOT because I am feeling "rescued" by all these wonderful postings, but because you have all made me feel like a total loser. i honestly feel like ai would be better off now to be NOT in school and just working a dumb job at a fast food place or something based on what I have been reading here. Thanks a lot.


OK - go ahead and start tearing me to shreds.
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#184 Consumer Comment

Thanx B

AUTHOR: Rick - (U.S.A.)

I am going to talk to an advisor from NEU on Monday and ask if they have had any issues transfering from UOP/AXIA. For the frogram that I want to get into the only requirment is that you have an AA Degree. Assuming there are no issues I think I will stick with Axia just because I can get my degree so fast. The cost is not an issue since my work will pay for all of it.

I agree with you though the other stuff you said in other posts regarding UOP. I work for a very large company and have spoken to many recruiters. Like Intel, they are not very fond of Schools like UOP. They much prefer more recognized schools. With my approach I will still get my degree from NEU which is a nation leader.



Thanks for you help
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#185 Author of original report

Rick

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

If you want a quick online AA degree from college you won't deal with any issues, check out Rio Salado Online. Rio is a community college out of Phoenix offering AA degree programs. Also, their tuition is like $65 per credit for in state and $130 per credit for out of state. Better deal than AXIA plus no worries about transfer later on. Rio will look like any other community college when NEU sees the transcript.

Should you choose to stay at AXIA, I do not see any reason as to why your AA would not transfer. AXIA is regionally accredited. Typically transferring an AA into another college means that they will scrutinize your general education courses to make sure you have the required English, Math, Science, Humanities, and adequate electives. What you may find at NEU is that when you declare your major, that specific major may require additional English, Math, Science, Humanities or Elective credits as pre-requisites to the major courses you need for graduation. If you know what you will be taking at NEU I suggest you look at the pre-requisites and try to take similar courses in your AA program as your elective credits.

Good luck
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#186 Consumer Comment

Transfering from UOP to NEU

AUTHOR: Rick - (U.S.A.)

Has anyone tried transfering credits from UOP/AXIA college to Northeastern Univerity ?

Because I can get my Assoc. Degree in 1.5 years from AXIA, I was thinking about just getting my Assoc. Degree there and then transfering to Northeastern Univerity. They have a degree completion program there and to get into the program you have to have a Assoc. Degree.

Anyone try a similar approach ?

Thanks in advance
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#187 Consumer Comment

Thanks to the author

AUTHOR: Adam4884 - (U.S.A.)

I just want to sincerely thank the author, B for telling us about her experience. I am a recent college graduate from a state supported university in NC and while job searching yesterday I came across some opening for enrollment advisor positions at UOP in Charlotte and Atlanta. I applied to both and got a call today about the position in Atlanta. I chatted with the lady who was nice but didn't strike me as very professional. She told me there would be a group interview next week for the enrollment advisor position at their campus in the Dunwoody area of Atlanta.

Normally I would be thrilled about a job in Atlanta since I love the city but my gut told me something wasn't right. I did some research and was brought here and after reading comments from user Tim, B, and others I will not be wasting my time by going to a group interview for this position in Atlanta next week.

Thanks for saving a big headache for me! I can't think you all enough. I want to get into a career in Higher Education but not like this.
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#188 Author of original report

Accreditation

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

UOP is accredited through the HLCNCA and recently received ACBSP accreditation for their school of business. (Although I am not confident they will be able to retain ACBSP)

The public is generally unaware or uninformed regarding what it means to be accredited. Unfortunately the HLC has somewhat of a notoriously lenient reputation when it comes to enforcing accreditation standards. Basically the HLC expects certain governance rules to be complied with by any college they accredit along with non-specific academic rules. Essentially they want the institution to operate honestly and demonstrate that students are learning at the level the institution claims.

What the general public does not realize is that the HLC is very slow to place an institution on probation or pull accreditation. They must consider the comprehensive impact of taking such action especially when looking at UOP. Consider UOP's 250,000+ students, 5000+ employees, etc. Punishing the institution means punishing these people as well.

Typically the HLC will conduct site visits and make recommendations to the institution. If that institution continuously fails to comply they may then choose to put them on probation until the issues are remedied. Only as a last resort where an institution has blatantly demonstrated an unwillingness to comply or shown they are incapable of complying with the HLC pull accreditation. The HCL seems infinitely patient with institutions demonstrating effort towards compliance without ever fully complying.

UOP will never lose accreditation from the HLC.
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#189 Consumer Comment

Accreditation?

AUTHOR: Jc - (U.S.A.)

Is it still the case that UoP is not accredited?
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#190 Consumer Comment

For goodness sake Donald,

AUTHOR: Irving - (U.S.A.)

Are you the only employee at the UOP? Why isn't Nixxon able to obtain accurate information about getting his money back, or not being charged, from his sales person, or an academic advisor? Are students provided this information upfront, in a clear, concise manner? If so, why do so many seem to come to this site for accurate information!
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#191 UPDATE Employee

To Nixxon

AUTHOR: Donald - (U.S.A.)

Don't post anything in the class. No messages. No goodbyes. No explanations to the instructor. As long as you do not post, then you will not qualify for attendance. If there is no attendance, then they cannot charge you for the class.

No matter what your enrollment counselor may try to feed you, don't give in and tell him you want to put it off for right now. They may insist on setting a firm date in the future but just tell them you want to hold off till you feel ready. You will still owe for the application fee and possibly the books but you won't owe the tuition on the class. Additionally, since you won't have attendance, they will not be able to certify you for financial aid so the loan won't go through either.
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#192 Author of original report

Fasttrack? Maybe, but to where?

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Outside of the many comments that could be made regarding this post I will be gentle because it does well to support my point that much of how UOP operates is based upon sub-par academic standards.

Plagiarism is still such regardless of providing sources. True learning and true demonstration of learning requires that a student show capacity to express attained knowledge in their own words, testing, hypothetical or real application of said knowledge. If you have read the content and feel that you cannot summarize or express mastery of content in a manner better than the original author then perhaps a quote or paraphrase is relevant. But to say that you are using another individual's private work to complete major portions of your assignments is an indictment of your lack of dedication to the learning process as well as an indictment of the institution allowing you to do this. Well written, college level papers use citations as a way to support and enhance the proprietary writing of the individual. What you describe in your BSBA program is plagiarism. The fact that you may be getting away with it at UOP is irrelevant.

You sum it up nicely when you say I'm not really concerned about comprehending anything since I just want the degree. This should anger those who support UOP more than anything I have said because it demonstrates that someone who openly admits they are not concerned with learning has been able to prosper at UOP.
From this I can draw 1 of 2 possible conclusions. You are either being less than honest in an attempt to psych-out readers and appear to support UOP while at the same time presenting a devastating picture of the entity you claim to support. Or you are telling the truth in which case I would say that only a fool believes that there is nothing to be learned and your whole premise of obtaining a degree simply to show that you have one, assuming that will somehow align competitively with MIT, and being able to go through a program without learning anything is highly flawed. If what you say is true and UOP's degree is on par with other respected institutions of higher learning, you could have gone to MIT and pulled off the same feat. If not, it is reasonable to assume you would have only been able to pull off this feat at UOP, that learning standards are lower, that UOP is (rightfully so) viewed as sub-par, and the degree you obtained means nothing so in then end you would have been better off not wasting the time and money in the first place.

If you only wanted a degree you could have contacted Redding University and they would have given you one.
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#193 Consumer Comment

I hope this page is still acvite I need HELP!!!!!

AUTHOR: Nixxon - (U.S.A.)

I hope this site is still active. I need help. I too got sucked into the UOP life. I went in last Tuesday (7-17-07). I signed the paper work and was off to get Sallie Mae to give me a loan. Well Friday night I got a call that my father passed away. So, now that my situation changed I am hoping to be able to "un enroll". I was scheduled to start class this Wednesday (7/25/07). Since I am going to be moving out of state to help my mother out is there anyway out of the UOP? I did not attend class nor did my financial aid get approved (I called and stopped that last night). I called UOP Friday night and was told that since it was less than two weeks till my start date I have to pay for the application fee and the class that I am NOT going to be attending. Anyone know if they can do that? Do I have a way out? Please help I am freaking out this is to much to deal with and I need help! Thanks!!!!!!!
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#194 Consumer Comment

UoP offerst a great, fast and convenient solution

AUTHOR: Fasttrack - (U.S.A.)

I am almost done with my BSBA degree at UoP. What I really like about the online classes is that , 90% of the time, I can write my papers during my lunch break at work and the teacher will see the effort that I have put into it. Writing the papers is not as hard as people think. I have my own system. I copy everything from the web, but I make sure to cite my references. I color code the references (say red or blue) then the parts of the text that I am copying from the web are also color coded to match their associated reference. Then, I just type zz or other characters, say qq, at the end of each sentence that I copied.

Finally, just replace all these characters with your citation. This saves a lot of typing. I actually figured out how to complete a 5000 word paper in an hour using these legal methods. I'm not really concerned about comprehending anything since I just want the degree. I've already learned what I need to know to compete with the nerds from MIT. I just need the paper to back me up. UoP rocks for those on busy schedules that want to complete their degrees in only 20 minutes a day. I know once I've graduated, that I actually mastered myself and created a system that will make me successful with other projects I face in the corporate world.
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#195 Consumer Comment

What were your expectations?

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

Want to get a degree that will command the same respect and value as one issued by a so-called "traditional" college or university?

Yes---> Enroll at a traditional college or university.

No----> Spend your money at a corporate institution that tells you what you want to hear in order to get your money.
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#196 Consumer Comment

Ron....

AUTHOR: Kyle - (U.S.A.)

Have you shared your UOP concerns with your chain of command?
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#197 Consumer Comment

You can understand why....

AUTHOR: Kyle - (U.S.A.)

The UOP would attempt to downplay the lack of AACSB accreditation, after Intel decided to no longer fund educations at schools lacking it. (Which, for the UOP, meant the end of a substantial amount of business, and the overwhelming message this decision makes to prospective students.)

It's kind of funny that this recruiter claimed the UOP had some "rare" form of accreditation, but didn't know the name of it. To the former poster, did the recruiter call it "double secret accreditation?"

Just another day under the "Big Top!"
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#198 Consumer Suggestion

Accredidation & options

AUTHOR: Sheila - (U.S.A.)

I completed my bachelors degree through UoP Online. I felt it was a great experience. I have since decided to pursue my MBA (online as well). After doing some research, I discovered the whole accredidation issue. One of my co-workers immediately, said I should choose a school with the higher accreditation (aka AACSB). I found an online MBA consortium program through the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire.

Shortly after enrolling, I received a call from an enrollment counselor from UoP indicating I should reconsider my decision and that UoP has recently acheived a new accredidation that is very rare. The UoP rep didn't know what the accredidation was however and was pretty insistant that their program is much better and the AACSB accredidation really isn't that special or important. There are definitely other online degree options available, you just have to research.
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#199 Author of original report

Ronald

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Check out Northcentral University or Walden. Both have great programs and will not use underhanded tactics to get you to enroll. I promise you will get more out of the courses too.

Good luck.
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#200 Consumer Comment

Is it really worth it?

AUTHOR: Ronald - (U.S.A.)

There have been many strong arguments about the pros and cons of attending UoP. There have also been many arguments about the tactics used by UoP to get potential students to enroll, sometimes using strong arm tactics and pressure tactics. There has also been discussion concerning how the university treats employees, and how that treatment translates into how students are subsequently treated.

Let me start off by saying that as a member of the US military, many of us are attracted to the university because of the promise of being able to complete our degrees online. Many of us do not have the ability to attend universities as full time students. I actually remember a time when the university was considered a viable and recognized option for getting your degree. Times have changed since then, and the reputation the university has built has degraded. It is troubling for military students like myself to see how many other graduates are laughed at and ridiculed for attending this university. It troubles me to think that I am spending my hard earned cash and government funding (in the form of the GI Bill and Tuition Assistance) on a degree that means nothing in the long run.

I just want to thank B. for having the guts (and restraint) to put the facts out. With better information available to potential military students, maybe the right choices can be made. As for those of us who are already enrolled, lets hope we can get something positive out of our degrees when we get into the civilian work force.
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#201 Author of original report

GINA...

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Let's try this again. ROR would not list my first attempt at this post due to content. So this time I'll play nice.

Gina?
Did anyone every see the speed dating scene in 40 Year Old Virgin? Anyway

Let's start with the obvious. If you are going to critique another individual's spelling effort, make sure you proof read your own crap. Since you felt is necessary to give us an overview of the difference between Purdue and Perdue, I figured maybe you might know how to spell sarcasm. It is not spelled saracsm. Now you realize my point in the other posts about typos. Perhaps your headaches stem more from your over-inflated and unjustified sense of grammatical superiority, and less from reading other people's spelling errors. Not that it makes any difference, but you spelled typos wrong too.. Typo is a spelling error.Type-O is a freakin' blood type. Nice one.

Now to the meat

The AZDOL lawsuit was not about low performing employees. It was about the fact that UOP knowingly and intentionally refused to pay overtime to employees for years. Perhaps a definition of extortion would help here: the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority. Intentionally avoiding paying employees monies due in order to retain that money for the organization's pursuits would seem to be an act of extortion to me. The other multi-million dollar settlement with the USDOE was related to abuse of Title IV regulations because it was found that the UOP compensation matrix was smoke and mirrors

So before you come here trying to spout information, get your facts straight. Now you might realize what I meant by spewing ignorance. See what you just did there? You pretended to know about something of which you were totally ignorant about the facts, thus, spewing ignorance.

Also, with regards to the housing expense situation and ground campuses. First, look at the title of this blog did you see that the ONLINE part? Second, why don't you examine the process of qualifying for additional living expenses through FAFSA, then get back to us? You forgot to mention that UOP ground classes pretty much run 1 night a week for 4 hours and are made up of working adults by about 90%. As far as UOP's shady dealing with Title IV monies, take a look here: http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/auditreports/a09f0008.doc

Incase they omit the link, here is a summary of the report file by the USDOE regarding UOP's handling of Title IV:

We concluded that UOP had policies and procedures that provided reasonable assurance that the institution properly identified withdrawn students, appropriately determined whether a Return of Title IV calculation was required, returned Title IV funds for withdrawn students in a timely manner, and used appropriate methodologies for most aspects of calculating the return of Title IV aid. However, UOP applied inappropriate methodologies to determine the percentage of Title IV aid earned for calculations performed from September 1, 2002 through December 7, 2004. As a result, UOP may have understated the amount of Title IV funds to be returned by over $10 million ($6.3 million from September 1, 2002 through February 29, 2004 and $3.7 million from March 1, 2004 through December 7, 2004).

uh? Yeah, they tried to keep money they shouldn't have

As for you being forthcoming, if you worked at UOP Online anywhere near the enrollment floor and you are sitting here claiming that everything you experienced was on the up and up you are lying. Your point about motivating potential students may be true, but holding a student's dreams and goals as leverage to convince them to take out $50,000 in loans just so they start 1 class and count as an enrollment, well, some of us with an ethical compass may take issue with that. If you never saw the Red Room, if you never saw a performance plan, if you never heard an enrollment advisor lie to a potential student about loans and grants just to make their numbers, you either didn't really work there, or you are lying.

Your estimates regarding the attrition rate at UOP vs. other colleges are way off. Read the Sam Dillon article and review his sources. If you were right they would have never opened WIU which became AXIA. If all their undergrads were doing so well in the program, why would the open a new college for freshman and sophomores and lower tuition?

As far as academic quality, don't take my word for it, why don't you take a look at who made the list of only 4 institutions to have a MANDATED focused evaluation visit by the NCAHLC. In addition, if you think other colleges either online or ground use the same approach to learning where an instructor throws a discussion grenade into the class and the students chat for 5 weeks, you are insane. Plus UOP has the most lax requirements for becoming an adjunct faculty of any online or ground school. Above all, why don't you take a look at how many complaints have been filed with the NCAHLC against UOP by current and former students before you come in here trying to pretend like it is just my problem as a disgruntled ex-employee.

While my reference to sub-par' courses being offensive to you, well, your efforts herein pretty much leave me free of needing to comment on that.

I had a pretty funny closing comment for Gina but I had to leave it out this time around
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#202 Consumer Suggestion

I have an Idea

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

B,

I would love to talk more with you about what goes on behind the scenes with Apollo/UOP/AXIA/WU. I have a new support group/ gathering place for people who want to speak freely about all of this. I would love it if you would join my group. Maybe if enough people join we could get a class-action going so that the people who have been driven in to poverty by the Apollo group can finally get some justice... I know it's not a perfect system but just the thought of them never scamming anyone ever again would suffice for me. Hopefully they will let the link work...
(((ROR REDACTED LINK FOR SECURITY PURPOSES)))

if not maybe this will work

groups dot myspace dot com forward slash uopvictims

you can also look for me as Jynxed on myspace

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#203 Consumer Comment

Gina....

AUTHOR: Irving - (U.S.A.)

You said,

"....and do not appreciate having our accredited degrees slandered like this after all of our hard work. Also, I don't know anyone who was unable to find a job because of a UOP degree.....Also, those of us who obtained undergraduate or other degrees from different Universities can tell you that we earned our UOP graduate degrees every bit as much as we earned our undergraduate degrees at our state, or other, Universities."

With all due respect, your opinion is not consistent with the body of available evidence on the UOP, from this message board, from a recent New York Times front page article on the school, from a SCATHING U.S. Department of Education (USDOE) report on UOP recruiting, from a multi-million dollar False Claims act lawsuit which may bankrupt the school, and from a recent decision by Intel Corporation to no longer fund employee educations at the school....We can all come here and give our opinions, but ultimately, you know what they say opinions are like?

In a 11 Feb 2007 NYT article entitled, "Troubles Grow for a University Built of Profits," the author cited a USDOE report on UOP recruiting, saying it "systematically operates in a duplicitous manner." (i.e. they had a plan to be deliberately deceptive) This report was compiled after interviewing approximately 60 recruiters in California and Arizona. It describes how the UOP formulated a recruiting system which subverted USDOE rules about paying recruiters commissions based on recruiting students. The report states, "Forty-four out of 61, or 72%, of the recruiters interviewed stated that it was always about the numbers--all about "butts in seats" or "asses in classes"....." DOE rules are meant to protect students from becoming little more than "assess in classes," to protect consumers from large companies who see just one thing, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.....

Or, just read the messages of student after student on the ripoffreport complaining they were misled by UOP recruiting. Of course these are opinions as well, but they are well supported by the sources I quoted above which can be found through a quick google search.

Finally, Intel will no longer fund employee educations at the UOP. It's just one company, so far, but who wants to spend thousands of dollars on a diploma if employers don't think its up to par?


Cheers!
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#204 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Another Perspective-University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona University Of Phoenix

AUTHOR: Gina - (U.S.A.)

I was also a long-time employee of UOP/WIU Online, but I have a more positive view on the university. Also, I am not about to "spew" any "ignorance" that was brainwashed into me that I am simply "rehashing" like some new version of a George Orwell novel. I am also not sure what happened to our writer while he was an employee at the University, or why he has listed his name as only "B", but I do know that everything that I witnessed as an employee was above-board. I did not witness any counselors being told to lie or manipulate students. We were told to motivate them to go to class and do well, but maybe some people see that as manipulation. And trust me; it makes no financial sense to have a student drop out after paying for only one class when he can pay for 30 classes and graduate. I would check the dropout rates at other colleges and compare them with UOP's, but I think they are probably pretty comparable.

Because our writer references the $10 lawsuit, I assume that he is angrier about the university's treatment of employees than students, anyway. The lawsuit had nothing to do with the universities academic practices; by the way, it was a department of labor issue dealing with the treatment of low-performing employees. He also mentioned that the university embezzled money from employees? This is news to me. I never caught them embezzling any money from my paychecks, but I'll let you make your own judgments on that one, since I haven't done any research on it.

Also, the writer's allegation about the housing expenses for an on-line campus also raised a red flag with me. I hope that the general public understands that UOP has a very large brick and mortar campus. This means that the university has classrooms that students actually have to walk into to attend class (I apologize in advance for the saracsm). UOP having only an on-line program is a common misconception (unless you live in Phoenix, or Illinois, or Hawaii, or next to any of the other UOP ground campuses across our country). UOP does not merely run an on-line program, nor did it start out that way. Because UOP has such a large on-line program this seems to be a common misconception. And UOP degrees are well respected by anyone who is familiar with the university, especially in the Phoenix area where residents have lived next to the ground campus university for the last 30-odd years.

As stated before, my experience with the university and many of my colleagues' experiences, as well, was very positive. Many of us earned our degrees from UOP while we were employees, worked very hard for them, and do not appreciate having our accredited degrees slandered like this after all of our hard work. Also, I don't know anyone who was unable to find a job because of a UOP degree. Many people don't know this, but a large part of the company's revenues come from employer-assisted tuition. I don't think all those employers would throw their money away on a degree that they don't respect. Also, those of us who obtained undergraduate or other degrees from different Universities can tell you that we earned our UOP graduate degrees every bit as much as we earned our undergraduate degrees at our state, or other, Universities.

Your reference to "sub-par" courses is especially offensive. Also, by the way, Purdue is not spelled "Perdue". Perdue is a poultry manufacturer. We'll ignore the rest of the type-o's, because they are so numerous that it is starting to give me a headache.

Anyway, here's my theory on this attack on the university. UOP has made a pile of cash. Anytime a pile of cash has been made (and is still being made) you are going to have people that are angered by it, and especially if you consider the huge number of employees concerned in a company that large. You simply cannot have that many employees without some of them getting disgruntled. Like our dear writer here who won't state his name.
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#205 Author of original report

Tim

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Tim,

Donald is attempting to downplay the reality of the Intel situation. This is a common tactic that many resort to when evidence against the cause they support is overwhelming. Instead of providing evidence to support the positive aspects of their case, they resort to damage control regarding the overwhelming negative aspects. When the only thing you can say about the Intel/UOP is that basically, "UOP wasn't the only college Intel decided had less than adequate academic standards..." you are not saying anything to actually argue the real point. The real point is that Intel decided UOP had plenty of time to demonstrate academic quality, and they consistently failed to do so. Instead of attempting to show a counter-argument where UOP demonstrated a quality academic standard, (which would be difficult if not impossible) Donald chose to distract from and downplay the issue. As with many of those who defend UOP, their defense often makes a better case for the negative aspects of UOP, than any possible positive. What they are essentially saying is that UOP has failed to demonstrate anything positive which could possibly overshadow their legal issues, academic issues, Title IV issues, accreditation issues, public image issues, personnel issues, stock issues, and management issues.
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#206 Consumer Comment

Intel--Canary in mine shaft?

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Ok, so new UOP MBA grads can go to Intel and say, "UOP isn't the only school where Intel won't educate it's employees, so give me a job?" This is the "misery loves company" job search strategy?

At any given time about 1/3 of UOP students are enrolled in the MBA program? That's about 100,000 students per year? A HUGE portion of UOP students are getting UOP MBA's even though, as Intel discovered, employees with these degrees were losing out to their peers from other programs. So while a UOP diploma might get someone where they want to go, if employers think UOP degrees don't cut the mustard, why take the chance?
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#207 Consumer Comment

Intel--Canary in mine shaft?

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Ok, so new UOP MBA grads can go to Intel and say, "UOP isn't the only school where Intel won't educate it's employees, so give me a job?" This is the "misery loves company" job search strategy?

At any given time about 1/3 of UOP students are enrolled in the MBA program? That's about 100,000 students per year? A HUGE portion of UOP students are getting UOP MBA's even though, as Intel discovered, employees with these degrees were losing out to their peers from other programs. So while a UOP diploma might get someone where they want to go, if employers think UOP degrees don't cut the mustard, why take the chance?
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#208 Consumer Comment

Intel--Canary in mine shaft?

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Ok, so new UOP MBA grads can go to Intel and say, "UOP isn't the only school where Intel won't educate it's employees, so give me a job?" This is the "misery loves company" job search strategy?

At any given time about 1/3 of UOP students are enrolled in the MBA program? That's about 100,000 students per year? A HUGE portion of UOP students are getting UOP MBA's even though, as Intel discovered, employees with these degrees were losing out to their peers from other programs. So while a UOP diploma might get someone where they want to go, if employers think UOP degrees don't cut the mustard, why take the chance?
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#209 UPDATE Employee

Tim, the Intel issue

AUTHOR: Donald - (U.S.A.)

Tim,

It seems as if you enjoy using the Intel issue as a strong point against UOP, but the fact is that SEVERAL schools were cut out by Intel due to one determining factor: Professional Accreditation. The only reason UOP is mentioned is because of all the For-Profit schools that were affected, UOP happened to be the largest. There were actually hundreds of schools affected by Intel's change in policy.

The type of accreditation that Intel requires specifically for business related programs is AACSB (Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business) and for engineering, ABET (Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology).

Since UOP does not offer any engineering programs, seeking ABET certification would be illogical. UOP's educational model is non-traditional so obviously it does not fit with AACSB standards. As stated in the article below, UOP would have to employ faculty on a full time basis rather than a part time basis in order to attain accreditation. This would put a burden on many of the online instructors who also teach at other private and public schools.


From BusinessWeek, Mica Schneider
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/aug2004/bs20040819_8201_bs001.htm

"AACSB-approved schools must employ a certain number of qualified faculty, which some for-profit centers view as unnecessary. "A school with a nontraditional model has a harder time justifying that the model meets our quality standards," says Milton Blood, managing director of accreditation services at AACSB.

Accredition isn't everything, though. The University of Phoenix doesn't have AACSB certification, but it's performing quite nicely. With a stamp of approval from The Higher Learning Commission, an organization for educational institutions, the university has enrolled 15,047 MBAs online in 2003, up 65% from 2002. For-profits also are more adept at meeting higher growth rates because they can hire easier-to-find working professionals to teach classes, instead of professors, which saves schools money."
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#210 UPDATE Employee

Tim, the Intel issue

AUTHOR: Donald - (U.S.A.)

Tim,

It seems as if you enjoy using the Intel issue as a strong point against UOP, but the fact is that SEVERAL schools were cut out by Intel due to one determining factor: Professional Accreditation. The only reason UOP is mentioned is because of all the For-Profit schools that were affected, UOP happened to be the largest. There were actually hundreds of schools affected by Intel's change in policy.

The type of accreditation that Intel requires specifically for business related programs is AACSB (Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business) and for engineering, ABET (Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology).

Since UOP does not offer any engineering programs, seeking ABET certification would be illogical. UOP's educational model is non-traditional so obviously it does not fit with AACSB standards. As stated in the article below, UOP would have to employ faculty on a full time basis rather than a part time basis in order to attain accreditation. This would put a burden on many of the online instructors who also teach at other private and public schools.


From BusinessWeek, Mica Schneider
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/aug2004/bs20040819_8201_bs001.htm

"AACSB-approved schools must employ a certain number of qualified faculty, which some for-profit centers view as unnecessary. "A school with a nontraditional model has a harder time justifying that the model meets our quality standards," says Milton Blood, managing director of accreditation services at AACSB.

Accredition isn't everything, though. The University of Phoenix doesn't have AACSB certification, but it's performing quite nicely. With a stamp of approval from The Higher Learning Commission, an organization for educational institutions, the university has enrolled 15,047 MBAs online in 2003, up 65% from 2002. For-profits also are more adept at meeting higher growth rates because they can hire easier-to-find working professionals to teach classes, instead of professors, which saves schools money."
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#211 UPDATE Employee

Tim, the Intel issue

AUTHOR: Donald - (U.S.A.)

Tim,

It seems as if you enjoy using the Intel issue as a strong point against UOP, but the fact is that SEVERAL schools were cut out by Intel due to one determining factor: Professional Accreditation. The only reason UOP is mentioned is because of all the For-Profit schools that were affected, UOP happened to be the largest. There were actually hundreds of schools affected by Intel's change in policy.

The type of accreditation that Intel requires specifically for business related programs is AACSB (Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business) and for engineering, ABET (Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology).

Since UOP does not offer any engineering programs, seeking ABET certification would be illogical. UOP's educational model is non-traditional so obviously it does not fit with AACSB standards. As stated in the article below, UOP would have to employ faculty on a full time basis rather than a part time basis in order to attain accreditation. This would put a burden on many of the online instructors who also teach at other private and public schools.


From BusinessWeek, Mica Schneider
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/aug2004/bs20040819_8201_bs001.htm

"AACSB-approved schools must employ a certain number of qualified faculty, which some for-profit centers view as unnecessary. "A school with a nontraditional model has a harder time justifying that the model meets our quality standards," says Milton Blood, managing director of accreditation services at AACSB.

Accredition isn't everything, though. The University of Phoenix doesn't have AACSB certification, but it's performing quite nicely. With a stamp of approval from The Higher Learning Commission, an organization for educational institutions, the university has enrolled 15,047 MBAs online in 2003, up 65% from 2002. For-profits also are more adept at meeting higher growth rates because they can hire easier-to-find working professionals to teach classes, instead of professors, which saves schools money."
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#212 UPDATE Employee

Tim, the Intel issue

AUTHOR: Donald - (U.S.A.)

Tim,

It seems as if you enjoy using the Intel issue as a strong point against UOP, but the fact is that SEVERAL schools were cut out by Intel due to one determining factor: Professional Accreditation. The only reason UOP is mentioned is because of all the For-Profit schools that were affected, UOP happened to be the largest. There were actually hundreds of schools affected by Intel's change in policy.

The type of accreditation that Intel requires specifically for business related programs is AACSB (Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business) and for engineering, ABET (Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology).

Since UOP does not offer any engineering programs, seeking ABET certification would be illogical. UOP's educational model is non-traditional so obviously it does not fit with AACSB standards. As stated in the article below, UOP would have to employ faculty on a full time basis rather than a part time basis in order to attain accreditation. This would put a burden on many of the online instructors who also teach at other private and public schools.


From BusinessWeek, Mica Schneider
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/aug2004/bs20040819_8201_bs001.htm

"AACSB-approved schools must employ a certain number of qualified faculty, which some for-profit centers view as unnecessary. "A school with a nontraditional model has a harder time justifying that the model meets our quality standards," says Milton Blood, managing director of accreditation services at AACSB.

Accredition isn't everything, though. The University of Phoenix doesn't have AACSB certification, but it's performing quite nicely. With a stamp of approval from The Higher Learning Commission, an organization for educational institutions, the university has enrolled 15,047 MBAs online in 2003, up 65% from 2002. For-profits also are more adept at meeting higher growth rates because they can hire easier-to-find working professionals to teach classes, instead of professors, which saves schools money."
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#213 Consumer Comment

Amanda

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

YOu said, "Also, I do not appreciate the remarks that say my education at University of Phoenix is not as good as a degree from any other university."

While you may not appreciate folks saying this, lots of VERIFIABLE information points in this direction. Indeed Intel will no longer pay for UOP educations for their employees. They found employees with UOP degrees were not competitive for internal promotions judged against those with degrees from other universities.

Also, you advise folks to do their own research rather than take the subjective posts here into consideration. How about a U.S. Department of Education report which states that UOP recruiting "systematically operates in a duplicitous manner." And a front page New York Times article entitled "Troubles Grow for a University Built on Profits ," (Feb 11 2007).

Finally, you know what they say about opinions, and thats normally pretty good advice. But compare the UOP ripoffreport site to that of just about any other large corporation. You'll find a small fraction of complaints relative to the UOP. There must be SOME reason for this!

My best,
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#214 Author of original report

Amanda, do you know the name of this website?

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Amanda,

Let me first point out the obvious. Counting is not your strong point if you think it has only been a year I have been obsessing. Use all your fingers and toes and count the months between 7/2005 and 5/2007. You must live in really long year world. Second, obsessing? It seems that only those who support UOP see my information herein as negative. The rest of the overwhelming majority in here are just glad to have an outlet to vent their frustrations and see that they are not the only one UOP Ripped Off (This will be important later). Perhaps you have intelligence, but only an ignorant person would be able to ignore the reports in this blog and many others on this site about the negatives of UOP. If you actually read my information herein, you would see that many of the people coming in here, not attacking me, that provide testimonials about their positive experiences at UOP and do not spend time perpetuating invalid information about UOP, I have a decent exchange with. See posts by Wealth. What I point out is that while some individuals have positive experiences with UOP, it does not overshadow or undo the damage they have done to the majority of people that have interacted with them over the years, the damage to the social good, and the damage to the reputation of higher education.

You will be dealt with in my posts in the same manner as those who have come before you and while you claim that evidence to counter my claims is just as abundant as the evidence to support it, you fail to show where and how. In fact, I have seen no dispute to the fact that major companies continue to move away from accepting UOP as a valid degree. Intel Corp's denouncing of UOP as a sub-par learning facility last year supports my claim. Mistreatment of employees is supported by the AZ DOL lawsuit filed against UOP in 2004 supports my claim. UOP paid $12M in fines.

My claim that UOP operates in a duplicitous manner when it comes to Federal Title IV funding is verified by the USDOE in their report and in their investigation in 2004. This cost UOP $10M in penalties. The report by Sam Dillon of the NY Times also validated many of my claims although I did not agree with his approach. The recent decision by the US Appellate Court regarding the current lawsuit filed against UOP for violation of Title IV Funding rules, to allow the suit to go to trial, also supports my claims. So, by all means, please show us all this evidence to the contrary you speak of.

What are you even babbling about telling people to ignore the information in this blog? Are you kidding? Do you know where you posted? The name of this website is called Rip-Off Report not Company Kudos.com. People don't come to this website to praise companies.

If you can't handle the fact that the business you defend screws people on a regular basis, that is your problem. Is it really your contention that all the people in this blog and others that have had a negative experience with UOP should be ignored because it differs from your experience? People have said some stupid things in here, but telling people to ignore the overwhelming evidence presented against UOP by me and many others pretty much takes the prize. You would have had better luck going to New Orleans and campaigning to get a 3rd term for Bush.

And you may be right, not all UOP students are ignorant. But I can promise those intelligent people at UOP wish you would stop trying to act as their spokesperson
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#215 Consumer Comment

All UoP students are not ignorant

AUTHOR: Amanda - (U.S.A.)

I must say that I am very disappointed in your comments regarding the University of Phoenix. I am very sorry that you had a bad experience working for the university.

I graduated high school as the Valedictorian of my class. After high school, family issues required me to attend a community college in my home town in which I did very well also. I have found the courses I have taken with University of Phoenix to be just as challenging and rewarding as my previous education. Although there may be students attending the university who are not smart, I do not like your statement that UoP students are ignorant. I am not ignorant.

It is disappointing that you are telling me that my degree will not be worth anything, when I have checked with several major organizations regarding accreditation. ALL of the companies I contacted WILL accept a degree from the University of Phoenix.

Also, I do not appreciate the remarks that say my education at University of Phoenix is not as good as a degree from any other university.

B I must point out that you have been obsessing over this issue for the past YEAR. Get over it. Also, every time someone has something to say that contradicts a previous point that you made, you write a very long response re-explaining what you have already stated, even though there is just as much evidence to support the contradicting comments.

My advice to everyone is to do your own research. Do not depend on the information you read here.

Thanks!
Amanda
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#216 Author of original report

Billy

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Billy,

You are correct, I did not elaborate on my interactions with Sam Dillon. I could have explained more regarding the conversations that took place between Mr. Dillon and I. We had talked about this topic of the failure of UOP leadership to adjust for growing competition which resulted in a cascade effect downward, thus resulting in many of the other issues he points out in his article. Where he fails the reader, is that he does not elaborate on this and in my opinion, makes it seem that any institution with ties to Wall Street is also vulnerable to some type of investor pressure to hit goals. This casts a negative image on for-profit publicly traded education that did not need to be cast.

My main issue is that when we spoke, he outlined the topic of the article as an investigation into the educational recruiting hot-bed that the Phoenix Metro area has become with multiple colleges moving operations here to capitalize on the failure of UOP in maintaining their workforce. This is not the direction the article took at all which makes me question his motive.

In the portions of the article relating to graduation rates, he fails to compare apples to apples. No online college consisting of adult students will ever adequately measure up to the degree completion percentages of traditional campuses made up of mostly younger, recent high school graduates. The measurement compares, as he note, freshman (0 Credits) who complete their degree in 6 years or less. If the student comes in with a few credits, this measurement is void. Considering the fact that most adult students attending online are transferring in credits, and most of the students entering traditional bachelor programs are entering as new freshman, this totally skews the numbers. For those who enter an online program with 0 credits, their personal, financial, and educational situation often makes it difficult for them to maintain a full time academic schedule even at an online college. If you look at the demographics of the average 0 credit freshman at a ground campus, and that at an online it is very different. While UOP is totally guilty of student neglect, the graduation measurement is not a relevant indicator of this fact and is used as an easy substitute, again, to support his point.

The last area I will cover is relating to his point that UOP uses more adjunct faculty than any other college. What he fails to address is that this is happening across the board in education because colleges can no longer afford to pay full time or tenured instructors. His point makes it seem like UOP is guilty of something unheard of in hiring adjunct faculty. In one portion he says that UOP is the largest for-profit college in the US having some 300,000 students, and in the next he says they have more part time faculty than anyone else. Well that would seem pretty obvious when you do the math. There are no other colleges that even come close to that 300,000 mark, but if they did I can promise that they would either change their student to faculty ratio, or hire more part time faculty.

Consider this: Assume the average 4 year college has 5000 students. Assume the student to faculty ratio is 20 to 1. This means that at a college with 5000 students, if the 47% full time faculty rate remains true, this means that the average college has 117 full time faculty and 133 part time faculty. Now assume that to pay a full time faculty their annual compensation with benefits is an average of $80,000 per faculty member and $30,000 a year with no benefits for part time faculty per member. 117 full time member cost the college $9.4M a year and $4M a year for the other 133 part time faculty. Expand these numbers out to 10,000, 20,000, 50,000, 100,000 students and see how the cost to maintain full time faculty increases. As the student population grows, I am sorry to say that the money even at ground campuses in not always spent on finding full-time faculty. Ground campuses are just as guilty of this but just on a smaller, less noticeable scale. Hell, they have athletic arenas to build!

All of these issues go back to the greed of those who lead UOP. Mr. Dillon could have easily focused on that aspect and kept it isolated to the real problem which is the leadership at UOP. In stead, he made it a broader issue attacking multiple angles. Why I take issue with that is because it has a negative impact on the whole online education industry and makes it even more difficult for those trying to do it right, to do it at all. The article, although aimed at UOP, did more damage to other online colleges than it did to UOP. They have too much money to feel the impact of that. The only real threat to UOP is the current lawsuit. If they lose Federal Financial Aid at $1.8B a year, they cannot recover.
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#217 Consumer Comment

B....

AUTHOR: Billy - (U.S.A.)

Great points on UOP leadership, obviously they have to take responsibility for the tactics of this company.

I'm not sure how you having talked to the author of the Times article is relevant to your interpretation of his story? Are you saying your conversation with the author changes his story? A UOP employee was on here not long ago "claiming" the story had been retracted. She ran away when called on her claim. Perhaps you speaking with the stories author is relevant, you just did not describe how.

What specifically did the Times article get wrong? The figures quoted come from the U.S. DOE, are those wrong? Or the fact the UOP hires almost exclusively part-time instructors? Or how about the fact the UOP is the target of a lawsuit, which it admits could bankrupt the school, for fraudulently obtaining hundreds of millions in federal student aid dollars?

As to your opinion that Sam Dillon was off base, my reading of available evidence shows he was dead on. (and let's face it, it doesn't hit the front page of the NYT unless things are getting BAD.) Have you read the US Department of Education report on the UOP? Indeed the DOE found that the UOP "systematically operates in a duplicitios manner." That means according to the U.S. DOE, the UOP systematically, or as part of a plan, operates in a duplicitious, or deliberately deceptive manner. This is supposed to be an institution of higher learning? Should students trust their education to a school conducting itself in this manner?

Indeed in late 2006 Intel stopped paying for employee educations at the school. They found their employees with UOP degrees were not competitive for internal promotions when compared with students from other schools. So why risk having your employer be the next to stop patronizing the UOP?

Thanks!
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#218 Consumer Comment

New Victim.....

AUTHOR: Billy - (U.S.A.)

I had to smile reading your post...Not at YOU, but as someone who has shared a common experience. Many of us have been where you are now, feeling the same things: shame, anger, confusion etc...

Your experience is so similar to so many stories here, "they didn't "tell" me a lie, they just left out amazingly important information." Is this a lie? If I want to become a nurse and school A knowingly sells me on a nursing program, even though they know it is worthless in my home state? Are ommissions lies?

Most consumers here would probably scream YES! Anyhow, WE know exactly what you are talking about, WE have had many of the same experiences. You can do the most good by telling your story everywhere, tell your govt. representative, write to your newspaper.

Thanks for your time
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#219 Author of original report

Billy

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Billy,

With regards to the NY Times Article, I had a chance to speak with Sam Dillon, author of the article in discussion here, and while some of his points were valid, his overall approach in the article was flawed. He used many assumptions and conjecture in his article as opposed to valid research. The quote you list is an example of where he was simply using a quote, probably out of context, in order to make his point.

While there is some validity to that statement about Wall Street, this statement oversimplifies the relationship between investors and the company. Yes, of course investors contribute monies to a company in the hope that the company will invest that capital wisely. Using that money wisely can increase productivity, performance, etc for the company and allow the stock value to increase thus providing the investor a return on their original investment.

Different types of stocks, in different types of industries, attract different types of investors. To say that UOP succumbed to the pressure from Wall Street is as obvious as saying that falling down means a person succumbed to gravity. This makes it seem as if Apollo Group had no control over the type of expectations they promoted to attract investors. The pressure they felt to perform from Wall Street was directly correlated to the projections they made to past, present and still make to future investors.

The problem was not Wall Street, the problem, in my opinion, was myopic, unqualified, and unethical leadership. AKA, Todd Nelson and Brian Muller.

Arrogance has been the downfall of many. They had plenty of opportunity to change course and stop making outrageous and unattainable growth projections when the market they were in was becoming saturated with start-ups and competition. I would assume that they may be aware of the law of diminishing returns. Obviously this did not stop them from making growth projections to shareholders that were based upon growth rates during their prime years from 1999 to 2003. They failed to hit those goals, their stock showed the impact. They could have changed their approach regarding the methods they use to create stock value for their investors.

Why they did not change stems from overconfidence and lack of foresight by the leadership. Their low rate of successful graduates shows that they never took the time to focus on a long term investment in their students. I never understood this. They always focus and report on new enrollments. Considering that the average degree there is between $20,000 and $60,000, you would think that they would be more interested in retention and the revenue degree completion generates. Laureate Inc, (Walden) takes this approach, attracts a different type of investor with a speculative growth approach, and their stock is doing well.

The result of these outrageous growth projections resulted in unattainable budgets for divisions, directors, teams, managers and enrollment advisors. To compound the hopelessness generated by putting unattainable goals on the shoulders of the workforce, at the same time they had 2 major pay-outs to settle legal issues with the AZ Dep of Labor for violation of overtime law and another with the Dept of Ed for recruitment violations. This cost them about $20M in 2004. Just a drop in the bucket for them but still, compensating for the loss must occur.

I am not sure why the decision was made, but suddenly they began to decimate their sales force which just happened to be the primary generator of revenue. At one time they were willing to pay enrollment personnel relatively well to perform well. They then went from a high performance, well paid, knowledgeable enrollment force, to a force of mostly entry level, un-educated, un-trained, and low paid enrollment personnel. They could not hire fast enough to compensate for the exodus of employees so they began using temp agencies to fill positions. I guess they figured, why pay an advisor $60,000- $80,000 a year to do a job they assumed anyone can do. They gambled on a cheap labor model and obviously this backfired.

As they continued to dismiss or let go of top personnel, their stock plummeted. If you are viewed as an explosive growth stock option, and you are going to project explosive growth, it is probably not a very good idea to get rid of the people responsible for generating enrollments.

With regards to your second question about pressure tactics. I never experienced the extreme as I knew how to avoid becoming a target. They began to use fear as opposed to reward as a motivation. The problem with this is that people only respond to fear if they are afraid. Ironically, $28,000/yr is not enough to make people care. They used many pressure tactics to force performance or force people out. The worst part was that HR was complicit in these endeavors and would always find on the side of the organization regardless of how wrong they were.

The worst thing I ever saw was called the red room which was a room the lowest performers were put in and all of their activities were monitored. They were required to go on a performance plan and if they failed to meet that plan they were let go. This practice lasted a while until the Dept of Ed found out. Now it is still done, but it is handled by the manager, senior manager and director and no one is put into a room.
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#220 Consumer Comment

A New Victim

AUTHOR: Sheila - (U.S.A.)

Well I am in the process of applying for axia online. I'm trying to aquire an associates in nursing. I know what classes I need to take for this program. I have looked into it at a local community college. When I started looking at the classes that they have you take at axia they are not the same. So I started doing some research. Come to find out a degree from axia isn't recognized in NYS. I have children and I live pay check to pay check. The thought of wasting my time and the loan I will have to pay back for nothing is mind blowing. I was suppose to start classes the middle of this month. As of now I'm not going to finish my application. I have done almost all of it, he is just waiting for a few items to be faxed. I thought because it was a big university and not like a community college that there was no need to question anything. I'm so glad that I paid attention to what classes are offered for this program and that I already knew what classes needed to be taken to be a nurse. I was never told anything about whether or not some states accept their degree or not. I was just told that I would need to enroll in a local college for the clinical part. I kind of feel like an idiot right now. Although online classes would be more convenient for me, I think I will just enroll in a local college. Atleast I know the ones around here are accredited and the degree I obtain will be recognized. Thanks for all the info you have posted on here. Although I have done some of my own research, this has helped greatly.

Almost scammed
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#221 Consumer Comment

For B

AUTHOR: Billy - (U.S.A.)

Enjoying your thread B. I think you're dead on, the problem is not SALES, but the manner in which they are conducted. How could so many shady practices occur unless management is either aware of or encouraging certain practices?

Do you agree with this quote from the recent NYT article?, "Wall Street has put them under inordinate pressure to keep up the profits, and my take on it is that they succumbed to that, said David W. Breneman, dean of the Curry School of Education at the University of Virginia." Is this correct, has the UOP sacrificed ethics or standards to make the quick buck?

You make the point there are good people working for the UOP, how can that be in doubt in such a big company? One more question, I read a lot about intimidation tactics the UOP uses keeping employees in line. The U.S. Department of Education refers to this theme frequently. Can you provide any anecdotes or examples from your years at the UOP?
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#222 Consumer Comment

How Much is the average pay for a UOP Teacher

AUTHOR: M - (U.S.A.)

Any idea what these online professors get paid? How does that work?
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#223 Consumer Comment

How Much is the average pay for a UOP Teacher

AUTHOR: M - (U.S.A.)

Any idea what these online professors get paid? How does that work?
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#224 Consumer Comment

How Much is the average pay for a UOP Teacher

AUTHOR: M - (U.S.A.)

Any idea what these online professors get paid? How does that work?
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#225 Consumer Comment

How Much is the average pay for a UOP Teacher

AUTHOR: M - (U.S.A.)

Any idea what these online professors get paid? How does that work?
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#226 Author of original report

J, you assume much

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

If you know who I am, then I would assume you might have a better way to contact me. As you choose to contact me in this manner, I am guessing you do not know.

With regards to a question about NCU, why don't you ask them? The quote you list seems pretty self explanatory. I don't think too many people would need help with that part but I guess you are trying to make a point. As you seem to bold SALES in your statement, I guess you are trying to make a point that follows this logic:

If much of the issue within this forum is about the shady sales practices at UOP, and I am who you think I am, why would I list a need for sales people in a job ad? As I cannot speak to the motive of the ad for NCU, I can, as a logical person find many faults with your assertion. So before you pursue this line perhaps you should rethink it a bit.

First, the problem at UOP is not SALES. The problem is their business philosophy and Muller. Their desire for growth and greed prompted unreasonable budgets that could not be hit, which in turn caused a cascade effect all they way down to the sales floor. As I have stated before, there are some good people at UOP trying to do it right, but the SALES people that either choose to, or felt forced to use shady sales tactics and lie to ed consumers is where the problem ended up. The fact that UOP rewarded this behavior through financial benefit is why they just lost the appeal to have the Title IV violation cast thrown out of court.

Your fatal flaw, if your point it to say that SALES means shady sales, is that there are many people with recruiting and sales experience that conduct themselves in an ethical and fair manner and do not lie to the consumer. Walden, GCU, and Capella and many other online colleges use an enrollment sales force to promote their educational products and service educational consumers. Yet you do not see the issues at these colleges that you see at UOP.

"Sales" does not mean "bad" in the education arena. It is the tactic behind the sale that makes it bad or good.

So what was your point?

I hope that answers your question, but like I said, you are better off contacting NCU and asking them.

If you know me, I'm not hard to find, man up and come find me.
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#227 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Comment to B. of Arizona

AUTHOR: J. - (U.S.A.)

B. from Arizona I have a comment to make to you. First, I know who you are and your current capacity. How is Northcentral University treating you? After reviewing the website, I noticed that there is a section for Career Opportunities. Within this section, there is a portion dedicated to Enrollment Advisors. The description of the qualifications sounds very similar to those of University of Phoenix Online advisors.

Can you explain what this means,
"Experience in online student recruiting or SALES preferred. Ideal candidates must enjoy talking to, following up with via telephone and conveying to prospective students that NCU is the better way to earn your degree."
?

Thanks for your time.
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#228 Consumer Comment

NEW YORK TIMES

AUTHOR: Wayne - (U.S.A.)

If you cannot reach this link then google "trouble brewing at university built on profits"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/education/11phoenix.html?ex=1328850000&en=5c8573d57de4bffe&ei=5088
Wayne Reno, Nv.
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#229 Consumer Comment

To Ally in Brooklyn....

AUTHOR: H - (U.S.A.)

and all others thinking of the UOP...

Ally, its good you are feeling positive about the challenge the UOP is providing. However the many problems with the school, as evidenced by recent press reports make a degree from the school look a little precarious.

Indeed, Intel will no longer fund its employees educations at the school. They found that their employees with UOP degrees were not competitive for internal promotions when competing against graduates of other schools.

If you read the 2004 U.S. Department of Education report on the school it will make your toes curl...

Good luck!
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#230 Consumer Comment

WAYNE

AUTHOR: Wayne - (U.S.A.)

Thank you for clearing that up, I was very upset about how they handeled the way I was recruited, then hit with so many underlying costs, that I thought my grants were to cover. That's how it was explained to me whne I got that first call. Anyway I will coomntact the DOE right now and see if I can get anywhere. Againn thank yoou, and I liked your posting that started this, I also see that someone in Indy does not gree with you much. Thank you have a great day.
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#231 Author of original report

Wayne

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

I hope you meant to say that what THEY are selling is a crock of crap. I would agree. What I was talking about in the section you quote is relevant to Title IV Loans, not grants. Not all students qualify for grants and no graduate students qualify for Pell.

If I were you I would contact UOP Financial and ask for your SAR (student aid report). Then ask for an overview of your accounting statement showing the dispersal of funds. They must provide this to you, it is not an option.

The accounting portion should show all tuition/eResource fees owed/paid by you to UOP. The SAR report will show dispersal of all funds from financial aid including loans and grants. What you should see on the accounting report for funds received should match up directly with the financial aid dispersals less any out of pocket expenses you were required to pay. If they did not disperse funding to you and held the grant becasue of an outstanding balance, this would show.

If there are any discrepancies and funds were not properly allocated you do not need to wait for a class action suit, simple contact the DOE and Federal Financial Aid Offices, fax them the accounting and SAR sheets showing the discrepancies and the situation will be remedied.

The main class action suit currently pending is not about improper allocation of Title IV funding, it is about whether or not UOP broke the FFA Safe Harbor rules which govern the recruitment practices of their EA's.
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#232 Consumer Comment

FED GRANT STOLEN BY UOP

AUTHOR: Wayne - (U.S.A.)

HERE'S WHAT YOU SAID, Quote:"So it is official UOP policy to hold the funding in accounts until the person has completed the first few weeks of class. This allows them to send the money back if the student does not complete the class without reporting anything to the lender. The student is then in debt to UOP collections and not to the lender. Not to mention, FA doesn't pay for dropped or failed courses. What of the money in the holding tanks for months at a time. Hmmmm. Well, when you have over 100,000 students, 80% of which use FA in the sum of roughly 15K per year, they are basically counting that money as income for the organization even though technically it does not belong to them yet".

Well I tried to stay in, but could not afford it anymore, I NEVER SAW ONE PENNY OF THE TWO GRANTS THAT WERE SENT TO THE SCHOOL, NOT A CENT, WHEN I CALLED, I WAS TOLD I WAS NOT ENTITLED TO IT, EVEN THOGUH NOW IT IS ON MY CREDIT REPORT AS DEFAULTED. THAT'S A CROCK OF CRAP YOU ARE SELLING....I HOPE TO JOIN THE CLASS ACTION A.S.A.P.
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#233 Author of original report

Joe

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

What you write is partially true. However, there are circumstances which must be addressed.

UOP is in Arizona and there are currently no colleges in AZ with NCATE accreditation. (Makes you wonder why AZ is 49th worst state for K-12 education). However, this does not mean that ASU and U of A degrees in education cannot set up a graduate for licensure in other states. Arizona has reciprocity in 46 states and once an individual graduates from an AZ state approved teaching program their degree has reciprocity in those other 46 states.

Yes, there are specific states closed to this which have strict rules surrounding licensure. The has less to do with out of state program quality and more to do with state education boards being in bed with state colleges and wanting to keep tuition dollars in the state.

Most states are going to set their own rules for program approval. The most consistent method applied is relevant to regional accreditation and program content.

While NCATE is a good additional accreditation to have as an institution for many states and the absolute standard in some, NCATE is not the end-all be-all of educational accreditation standards.

The problem with UOP is that their enrollment advisors and personnel are or should be aware of the states their degree will not set a graduate up to gain licensure in and they should inform the prospect of this fact prior to enrolling. Obviously, this does not always happen and again is yet another example of some of the shady things UOP does.
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#234 Consumer Comment

UOP ED. degrees worthless

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

I'm sorry Ally but what you state is untruthfull. A UOP education degree is not accepted in all states. The only accreditation accepted everywhere is NCATE and UOP's education degrees are unaccredited. There are seven states that make NCATE mandatory and UOP is not allowed to offer their programs there because they are substandard.

New York State does not allow UOP to operate in NY due to unaccredited programs. That's why you will not find any campusus in your state. My UOP MEd degree is worthless so I had to go to an NCATE accredited program. Having to get another degree on top of wasting 32k did not make me a happy camper.

I wish I had understood the importance of professional accreditation before hand.


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#235 Consumer Suggestion

You get what you pay for

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

My father always told me, "Son, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably IS too good to be true".

I have long wondered about the University of Phoenix, and others like it. Now that I am considering going after my Bachelor's degree, I thought I'd look it up.

I know one thing I saw back when I was job searching is that most of your big name employers emphasize on you having a degree from an ACCREDITED university. So I have been doing some searching, and wound up here. I appreciate everyone's candid input, although some of the mud slinging could have been done without.

Basically, it sounds like the for-profit universities are catering to the things that people want to hear: Flexible schedules, student loans, shorter courses, 98% job placement rates, high graduate rates, high $$$ earning potientials, etc etc. But again, if it sounds too good....... I mean, basically, it sounds a lot like the "get rich quick" schemes that are all over tv and the internet. But in the end, who REALLY profits off of those????

I have done a little bit of calling, and I can't find anyone who is accepting credits earned at UoP. I thought about knocking out some of the basics there and then finishing up at a full University, but if they don't accept UoP's credits, what's the point??? It sounds like, from everything I have learned thus far, I am better off just going straight to a regular university from the get-go.

In the end, I think a "real" and "acknowledged" degree is most likely best retained from a 'real' university. The more I read, the more I am thinking that UoP is nothing short of a glorified vo-tech, with some SERIOUS internal problems.

My best suggestion to you all is this: Call a few of your local universities, and check tuition costs and schedules vs UoP. While you have them on the phone, see if they will acknowledge any credits obtained at UoP. If their answer is "No", I think that will pretty much give you your answer as to what potiential employers will think as well when it comes to the open job market.

As for some of the 'Holier than thou' responses directed at Mr. B because he once worked at UoP and has now 'reformed', get off your high horses! I personally say, good for you man! Maybe you screwed up by working there, but if what you say is true, at least you had the balls to get out. To the rest of you who are debunking everything he says because he says he once worked there, shame on ya. I'm certain Mr. B is like myself, and has an eraser on his pencil, simply because he is human and therefore mistakes will happen. For those of you who can't acknowledge that, I will assume you only write in ink and are so darned good that you don't EVER need white-out and never never NEVER start over because you goofed.... Na, you'd be too good for that, aye?

Mr. B, while I rarely take ANYTHING at face value, especially claims against a person, a corporate, or the likes, I appreciate your report and insight here. Combined with the 100 or so other reports I have seen strewn throughout the internet, I am beginning to believe you probably aren't too far from being right about them, if not completely right.

I think I will take my own advice and invest in a sound, established, and trustworthy university. I would suggest everyone else do the same.

I checked the local Better Business Bureau here in our area, and to my suprise UoP is a memebr of the BBB. That never sets well in my book. Just seems fishy. I'm sure I'll get bashed for that comment, but oh well.

Good luck to you all!
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#236 Consumer Suggestion

You get what you pay for

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

My father always told me, "Son, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably IS too good to be true".

I have long wondered about the University of Phoenix, and others like it. Now that I am considering going after my Bachelor's degree, I thought I'd look it up.

I know one thing I saw back when I was job searching is that most of your big name employers emphasize on you having a degree from an ACCREDITED university. So I have been doing some searching, and wound up here. I appreciate everyone's candid input, although some of the mud slinging could have been done without.

Basically, it sounds like the for-profit universities are catering to the things that people want to hear: Flexible schedules, student loans, shorter courses, 98% job placement rates, high graduate rates, high $$$ earning potientials, etc etc. But again, if it sounds too good....... I mean, basically, it sounds a lot like the "get rich quick" schemes that are all over tv and the internet. But in the end, who REALLY profits off of those????

I have done a little bit of calling, and I can't find anyone who is accepting credits earned at UoP. I thought about knocking out some of the basics there and then finishing up at a full University, but if they don't accept UoP's credits, what's the point??? It sounds like, from everything I have learned thus far, I am better off just going straight to a regular university from the get-go.

In the end, I think a "real" and "acknowledged" degree is most likely best retained from a 'real' university. The more I read, the more I am thinking that UoP is nothing short of a glorified vo-tech, with some SERIOUS internal problems.

My best suggestion to you all is this: Call a few of your local universities, and check tuition costs and schedules vs UoP. While you have them on the phone, see if they will acknowledge any credits obtained at UoP. If their answer is "No", I think that will pretty much give you your answer as to what potiential employers will think as well when it comes to the open job market.

As for some of the 'Holier than thou' responses directed at Mr. B because he once worked at UoP and has now 'reformed', get off your high horses! I personally say, good for you man! Maybe you screwed up by working there, but if what you say is true, at least you had the balls to get out. To the rest of you who are debunking everything he says because he says he once worked there, shame on ya. I'm certain Mr. B is like myself, and has an eraser on his pencil, simply because he is human and therefore mistakes will happen. For those of you who can't acknowledge that, I will assume you only write in ink and are so darned good that you don't EVER need white-out and never never NEVER start over because you goofed.... Na, you'd be too good for that, aye?

Mr. B, while I rarely take ANYTHING at face value, especially claims against a person, a corporate, or the likes, I appreciate your report and insight here. Combined with the 100 or so other reports I have seen strewn throughout the internet, I am beginning to believe you probably aren't too far from being right about them, if not completely right.

I think I will take my own advice and invest in a sound, established, and trustworthy university. I would suggest everyone else do the same.

I checked the local Better Business Bureau here in our area, and to my suprise UoP is a memebr of the BBB. That never sets well in my book. Just seems fishy. I'm sure I'll get bashed for that comment, but oh well.

Good luck to you all!
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#237 Consumer Suggestion

You get what you pay for

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

My father always told me, "Son, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably IS too good to be true".

I have long wondered about the University of Phoenix, and others like it. Now that I am considering going after my Bachelor's degree, I thought I'd look it up.

I know one thing I saw back when I was job searching is that most of your big name employers emphasize on you having a degree from an ACCREDITED university. So I have been doing some searching, and wound up here. I appreciate everyone's candid input, although some of the mud slinging could have been done without.

Basically, it sounds like the for-profit universities are catering to the things that people want to hear: Flexible schedules, student loans, shorter courses, 98% job placement rates, high graduate rates, high $$$ earning potientials, etc etc. But again, if it sounds too good....... I mean, basically, it sounds a lot like the "get rich quick" schemes that are all over tv and the internet. But in the end, who REALLY profits off of those????

I have done a little bit of calling, and I can't find anyone who is accepting credits earned at UoP. I thought about knocking out some of the basics there and then finishing up at a full University, but if they don't accept UoP's credits, what's the point??? It sounds like, from everything I have learned thus far, I am better off just going straight to a regular university from the get-go.

In the end, I think a "real" and "acknowledged" degree is most likely best retained from a 'real' university. The more I read, the more I am thinking that UoP is nothing short of a glorified vo-tech, with some SERIOUS internal problems.

My best suggestion to you all is this: Call a few of your local universities, and check tuition costs and schedules vs UoP. While you have them on the phone, see if they will acknowledge any credits obtained at UoP. If their answer is "No", I think that will pretty much give you your answer as to what potiential employers will think as well when it comes to the open job market.

As for some of the 'Holier than thou' responses directed at Mr. B because he once worked at UoP and has now 'reformed', get off your high horses! I personally say, good for you man! Maybe you screwed up by working there, but if what you say is true, at least you had the balls to get out. To the rest of you who are debunking everything he says because he says he once worked there, shame on ya. I'm certain Mr. B is like myself, and has an eraser on his pencil, simply because he is human and therefore mistakes will happen. For those of you who can't acknowledge that, I will assume you only write in ink and are so darned good that you don't EVER need white-out and never never NEVER start over because you goofed.... Na, you'd be too good for that, aye?

Mr. B, while I rarely take ANYTHING at face value, especially claims against a person, a corporate, or the likes, I appreciate your report and insight here. Combined with the 100 or so other reports I have seen strewn throughout the internet, I am beginning to believe you probably aren't too far from being right about them, if not completely right.

I think I will take my own advice and invest in a sound, established, and trustworthy university. I would suggest everyone else do the same.

I checked the local Better Business Bureau here in our area, and to my suprise UoP is a memebr of the BBB. That never sets well in my book. Just seems fishy. I'm sure I'll get bashed for that comment, but oh well.

Good luck to you all!
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#238 Consumer Suggestion

You get what you pay for

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

My father always told me, "Son, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably IS too good to be true".

I have long wondered about the University of Phoenix, and others like it. Now that I am considering going after my Bachelor's degree, I thought I'd look it up.

I know one thing I saw back when I was job searching is that most of your big name employers emphasize on you having a degree from an ACCREDITED university. So I have been doing some searching, and wound up here. I appreciate everyone's candid input, although some of the mud slinging could have been done without.

Basically, it sounds like the for-profit universities are catering to the things that people want to hear: Flexible schedules, student loans, shorter courses, 98% job placement rates, high graduate rates, high $$$ earning potientials, etc etc. But again, if it sounds too good....... I mean, basically, it sounds a lot like the "get rich quick" schemes that are all over tv and the internet. But in the end, who REALLY profits off of those????

I have done a little bit of calling, and I can't find anyone who is accepting credits earned at UoP. I thought about knocking out some of the basics there and then finishing up at a full University, but if they don't accept UoP's credits, what's the point??? It sounds like, from everything I have learned thus far, I am better off just going straight to a regular university from the get-go.

In the end, I think a "real" and "acknowledged" degree is most likely best retained from a 'real' university. The more I read, the more I am thinking that UoP is nothing short of a glorified vo-tech, with some SERIOUS internal problems.

My best suggestion to you all is this: Call a few of your local universities, and check tuition costs and schedules vs UoP. While you have them on the phone, see if they will acknowledge any credits obtained at UoP. If their answer is "No", I think that will pretty much give you your answer as to what potiential employers will think as well when it comes to the open job market.

As for some of the 'Holier than thou' responses directed at Mr. B because he once worked at UoP and has now 'reformed', get off your high horses! I personally say, good for you man! Maybe you screwed up by working there, but if what you say is true, at least you had the balls to get out. To the rest of you who are debunking everything he says because he says he once worked there, shame on ya. I'm certain Mr. B is like myself, and has an eraser on his pencil, simply because he is human and therefore mistakes will happen. For those of you who can't acknowledge that, I will assume you only write in ink and are so darned good that you don't EVER need white-out and never never NEVER start over because you goofed.... Na, you'd be too good for that, aye?

Mr. B, while I rarely take ANYTHING at face value, especially claims against a person, a corporate, or the likes, I appreciate your report and insight here. Combined with the 100 or so other reports I have seen strewn throughout the internet, I am beginning to believe you probably aren't too far from being right about them, if not completely right.

I think I will take my own advice and invest in a sound, established, and trustworthy university. I would suggest everyone else do the same.

I checked the local Better Business Bureau here in our area, and to my suprise UoP is a memebr of the BBB. That never sets well in my book. Just seems fishy. I'm sure I'll get bashed for that comment, but oh well.

Good luck to you all!
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#239 Consumer Comment

MY OPINION DIFFERS

AUTHOR: Kris - (U.S.A.)

Although B has his opinion on UOP I am not one to knock it, I too have mine. My personal opinion differs from his because unlike him i have had a great experience with UOP. Before i started UOP i was at a regular community college and all was ok but having a baby and trying to work full time was impossible like i am sure many of you know. I have since been a graduate of UOP i am now a 2nd grade teacher.

My degree is acceptable nation wide and that is a great advantage i found UOP anything BUT easy, we had to study just as much as a regualr college student in a traditional setting and i found the learning experience to be better for me. Financially i have had no issues getting back my refund from financial aid, and paying the remainder of my loans which is small and is not bad, simple payments from a well known company that also disburses loans to many private and well known community and state universities.

The masters degree i will be getting is also acceptable nation wide in the educational field and made sure they both were before i entered online education. Its too bad B didnt have a great experience working at UOP or for that matter get use of your MBA. But i guess you started this forum for a reason although i am not the only one to disagree with you on your thoughts where you had a bad experience and i like many had a great one. Good luck in the future!

-ALLY, Brooklyn, NYC
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#240 Consumer Comment

May Be of Assistance

AUTHOR: Christian - (U.S.A.)

Please do not attack my grammer as there will be errors for sure.

I like so many were eager to get started. Thought this is really a good way to go being that I work approx. 65 hrs./week.

I was all for going here actually was set to start in about a week when I was having some issues with my GIbill and went to my old unit for some paper work. Was I shocked to find out that the person I spoke with had a simmilar experience as most that have been posting here for a while.

Ultimately it was B who made up my mind and I thank him for this. You see I decided to contact my local school for information gave them my EFC and boy was I shocked to find out that by taking the same amount of classes over a years time I would get a "kickback" if you will from my FA. This something that was never expressed to me during my talks with the EA/FA.

They had informed me that as long as I did not log into my first class I could not be charged (they offer a few courses online so they know) for the costs of going to school. Don't get me wrong you are still obligated to pay the app. fee, but that is far less than it could have been had I not gone to my old unit.

One thing I will say about the EA is that he was always in contact never pushy but then again he never had to be as I was the one who wanted to go ASAP.

My only hope is that maybe this post will help others who are scheduled to attend and are second guessing themselves. You will not be called a quitter if in your heart something just does not feel right.

In closing might a make a small suggestion to anyone interested in going to school for the first time (since HS) or someone furthering an existing education, contact your local college and ask questions about enrollment and financial aspects of college. They are there to assist I have found this to be true as I am going tomorrow to register for the summer session and the fall session.

Oh yeah and about that 65 hr/week job obviously it will be history as I am going to need to devote my time to college, but that is my scenario not everyone will have the same outcome that I am having. Sorry for the rambling.

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#241 Consumer Comment

New York Times

AUTHOR: M - (U.S.A.)

Surprised at the lack of comments after the NYT article...When the "Old Grey Lady" gets involved, things are usually shaking...

Anyhow, interesting reading here. I have my own story, but first want to comment and thank this past recruiter for telling his story. It's interesting how otherwise good people convince themeselves what they are doing is OK. Undoubtedly most of the employees are making a choice between livelihood and cutting a few corners or telling some fibs. We are all weak (me too!) which is why we must recognize its when corruption is institutionalized and folks assume if the boss says its ok, it must be, that things get dangerous.

Anyhow, I am pursuing a degree in Masters of Counseling. When requesting admission criteria, the recruiter explained the realities. HE never told me, despite a month of communication, that I would first need to "pass" the apparently secret "course" called portfolio, which later I learned is called a "admission readiness assessment." I am therefore under the mistaken impression I have been admitted to the Grad program, but really have only been admitted to an admission interview.

The UOP acts like they are in the right when I complain. I can't recall the last time I've encountered such arrogance. But now that the NYT is involved, this story should be getting more legs and more acceptance, I hope!
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#242 Consumer Comment

Basketball Player Shaq

AUTHOR: Lee - (U.S.A.)

I started taking classes with the University of Phoenix online in July 2005. I'm one class away from graduating (4/2007). Before I signed up with this school, I had my reservations about it. I signed on anyway.

I'm currently in the Master of Science/Administration of Justice and Security. I hold a BA from one of the top criminal justice colleges in the United States, John Jay College of Criminal Justice. What really made me sign on was Shaq. I was watching TV one night and the news reported that Shaquille O'neal graduated from the University of Phoenix with his MBA.

I said to myself that it must be a good school if a Multi-Millionaire who holds a degree from LSU went there. I conducted further reaserch and learned that a couple of other professionals went there as well.

This experience has been very challenging. I haven't experience too many problems from the administration aspect of the school. Yes, I had numerous financial aid advisors, and academic advisors as well. For the most part, when I needed them for anything, they would respond to my emails and phone call. I never had trouble with finanical aid at all.

When you start a new class, the students are required to post their bio's. I read each bio to see the undergraduate schools these students attended. I was surprised to see some students attended Penn State, University of Texas, USC, University of Maryland, etc. I will admit that from time to time I would run into a couple of idiots in my classes, but you can find that at any traditional school as well.

It's a roll of the dice when it comes to the classes. I had a few awful professors. I'm currently taking one now and she is horrible. Hey, I had horrible professors at John Jay College. Every student throughout their learning process had a couple of bad professors.

However, most of the professor that I had pushed you to the limit. They were hard graders. Almost every week, you had an APA format paper to do. I actually improved my writing skills after writing so many papers.

Also I learned a great deal from the material. The class structure makes you focus and concentrate on the material at hand. The courses are only 6 weeks long but they're not abbreviated courses, they're just compressed.

Let me bottom line this. You can have all the degrees in the world from top ranked institutions but at the end of the day, you still have to sell yourself on the interview. Talking properly, having the ability to work with others, dressing properly, and being good at what you know, are just as important as the degree itself.
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#243 Consumer Comment

UOP Debate

AUTHOR: Wealth - (U.S.A.)

I have been reading the posts on UOP for over a year. It is currently becoming more of a debate between those that believe that those that don't. I can no longer see proof that UOP is a ripoff. It will be interesting to see what happens to the status of UOP in the next year.

The thread started out being a "whistle blowing" post. It has become a debate. Has the employee that started this thread seen justice? I believe that was the purpose.

My perception of UOP is that it is not a ripoff as much as it is a controversy in the evolution of education.

I am a graduate of UOP. I have obtained a job as an adjunct professor at a local university. My degree has not been laughed at by anyone. In fact, I have received much respect for completing the degree. It is an MBA with an E-commerce component. I read these posts to try and get an understanding as to the prestige of my degree. After almost a year of holding the degree, my experience has been good.

But,as I mentioned before, that is not why Brian started this thread. He wanted us all to know about his experience as an employee. I hope UOP gets that part of its organization straight. Because, as far as I am concerned, its education is great.
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#244 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Joshua

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

"I think many of the people that are upset with UOP are simply people that did not really want to invest the time in their education."

Blanket statement.

Claim rendered invalid by the overwhelming number of claims seen herein and throughout multiple other sites.

You may have had a pleasant experience; I am able to concede that point. However, if I were to say that EVERYONE that has attended UOP and had a pleasant experience is delusional, that would be ignorant. Why? Because it is obviously not true. As with your statement, simply because a large group of people are upset UOP does not mean those people can be grouped into a single category of people simply didn't want to invest time in their education.

Ignoratio elenchi...
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#245 Consumer Comment

My Opinion of UOP

AUTHOR: Joshua - (U.S.A.)

I received my Bachelor of Science in Business Management from the University of Phoenix. I have had no problem getting quality employment with my degree from UOP. I attended both ground and online programs and found them more challenging than my classes at FSU and UNF (University of North Florida.)

My enrollment counselor Brian was very staightforward with me and helped me through the technicalities of getting enrolled and also helped me search for scholarships. I am currently working for a marketing firm in Jacksonville and make more than $50,000.00 per year.

I think many of the people that are upset with UOP are simply people that did not really want to invest the time in their education.

I give UOP two thumbs up.
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#246 UPDATE EX-employee responds

UOPs response To New York Times Article

AUTHOR: Joshua - (U.S.A.)

The article in the New York Times by Sam Dillon has exposed a clash of cultures between traditional academia and newer, market-oriented colleges and universities.

The education crisis

America's economic power depends upon our educated workforce and by all counts, we're failing. Forrester Research has predicted that about 3.3 million U.S. service jobs will move to foreign countries by 2015, yet we continue to leave behind masses of potential students who either can't afford college or can't find a seat in one. It may come as a surprise that your own alma mater is not what the majority of college students may want or need today and for the next decade. Those bucolic, sentimental, ivy-covered campuses may even be obsolete with their heavy investment in physical facilities, semesters based on a bygone agrarian system, and class schedules that appear to honor the more pressing needs of the faculty than the flexibility required by students.

Today the majority of students are cobbling together their education in fits and starts, commuting to colleges part-time while working full-time. Many are single parents and first-generation college students, and frequently they must engage in remedial coursework in order to overcome an incomplete or insufficient educational past. These are the students who overwhelmingly need flexible learning options such as online classes, alternative schedules, financial assistance and access to intensive support services to provide a coherent path to their degree. These are the students that most of the traditional higher education community has left behind.

New market-oriented colleges do the nation's work

Market-oriented colleges like University of Phoenix are an essential part of the solution. The land-grant colleges originally intended to provide broad access to education cannot do it alone. In their quest for prestige, many of them have raised both tuition and admission standards beyond the reach of most students. Community colleges are filled to capacity, graduating fewer than 25% and struggling to learn how to serve this growing population.

In this environment, the rise of private for-profit colleges and universities should be no surprise. These institutions provide educational access to a broad spectrum of students, and they push the envelope on important innovations in flexibility and quality because they are fundamentally organized to confront market forces. Taxpayer dollars are not available to these colleges to fund their growth or services. Rather, public dollars come in the form of loans and grants, which go directly to students to fund their education. As employers, market-oriented colleges pay into the tax system and provide local employment opportunities. It's a perfect example of America's free enterprise system, whereby demand for a service fuels the growth of innovation and supply. Not just any service but one that our nation desperately needs.

Quality and Regulation

Traditions die hard, despite the dismal realities confronting our public education system. Regulation and popular sentiment favor the status quo. It's nice to believe that non-profit organizations have a higher moral purpose, but despite the extreme rhetoric about regulatory mishaps in for-profit education, there is no evidence that the accredited for-profits are any more or less compliant in regulatory matters than their non-profit peers. Indeed, if oversight is a comfort, the private, for-profit higher education sector is certainly the most examined and therefore most transparent in all of American higher education; accountable to local, state, federal and accreditation boards in addition to the Securities and Exchange Commission. They also must provide evidence of outputs or educational quality by maintaining comprehensive learning assessment systems, available to their regulatory overseers.

Education in the 21st Century

However, as with all innovation, skeptics abound to feed the culture clash between the old and the new. Those invested in the status quo objected when land grant colleges were introduced and also when community colleges came on the scene, railing against their supposed lack of quality, For-profit colleges are the latest target. We know that students will choose to earn their education both online and on campus, probably at multiple institutions, and from the colleges that can provide the most support and flexibility. There is no turning back - this is what education looks like in the 21st century.
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#247 Consumer Suggestion

Write About it...

AUTHOR: Carol Ann - (U.S.A.)

Tell Your Congressperson or Senator about this problem! US Department of Education Report tem to GOA, General Office of Accounting for the Federal Government, since these are federally funded student loans! They will do an investigation. You may also want to report them to Internal Revenue Service for fraud using form3949A, you can download it online.

Then pose it as a question on Yahoo Answers/Questions. Lots of angry students there. Someone needs to stop and thing about some of these colleges period. Even if you sit in the classes, because of clerical errors you may be stuck with student Loans and no usable degree! Bethany University did pretty much the same thing and i was sitting in the classes for almost 4 years!
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#248 Author of original report

Richard, your claims against NCU are invalid and unfounded

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

This will be my only response to in this thread. Should you desire to engage in debate over a college unrelated to UOP, start your own thread and let me know, I will engage you there:

I have to disagree with Richard regarding NCU as I have studied their product as well as Nova's. His provided information regarding NCU specifically is incorrect. First, NCU is not a correspondence school.

They use a completely different format than most online colleges but it is not correspondence. Correspondence is considered traditional mail, non interactive education. NCU uses 1 on 1 delivery for their courses. It is asynchronous online interaction similar to that of Walden, Capella, UOP, Nova, and many others. The main difference is that NCU does not require other people to be in your class with you so there is no team assignments or required post check in. NCU format can be argued as better because like many other online colleges, they have open enrollment standards, this can allow sub par students into the program. Because students are isolated 1 on 1 they do not affect other students and cannot hide behind a learning team for a grade. Some people like this, others do not. This DOES NOT make it a correspondence school.

Second, the reason that NCU has this free format is because they do not use Federal Title IV funding. Which means they do not exploit US tax dollars for their own benefit as does UOP. Because they do not use Title IV they do no have the same restrictions as many other colleges that do. There are no terms in which NCU must report attendance or limits on how many classes a student can take in a term. NCU has 12 week classes with the option of acceleration and no limit on the number of courses a student can take in a year or how fast a student can finish. This is not that same at 99% of the other online colleges.

Third, because NCU does not use federal tax dollars to fund their programs, their overall impact on the industry is limited. They do not exploit tax dollars. In truth since you compared them to NOVA Southeastern, NCU has a much more reasonable tuition structure than NOVA. NOVA's EDD program can reach upwards of $50,000 for the degree. NCU's is roughly $27,000. I have worked with NOVA in that past and just because they require the GRE to ender the program does not mean they are a better program. In fact, the current president of NCU use to work at NOVA as their Dean of Education. Strange.

As I am familiar with NCU and you claim they use deceptive advertising, please point out where and how. Is the advertising deceptive or your limited understanding of accreditation and online education leading you to believe they are deceptive?

AACSB is only one additional accrediting body a college can go after and only affects the school of business. NCU is in the process of being accredited by ACBSP (according to their website) which has similar academic requirements for accreditation as AACSB. The only difference is that ACBSP does not require a GMAT. I am unaware of many online colleges with ACBSP accreditation which I think leads to the quality of the program put out by NCU.

Bring the standard of accreditation down? This is a common misconception by those outside of education. The reason NCAHLC accredits so many online colleges is because they understand that the future of education is online. If you have ever been involved with a focus visit by the NCAHLC for program accreditation or review, you see that there is NOT a guideline standard of rules regarding an academic standard or operating method that must be in place for a college to receive NCA accreditation, They leave the compliance in the hand of the institution by allowing the institution to outline their goals, governance, syllabi, teaching method, measurements and reporting. As long as they do this, they are complying with NCAHLC standards. Considering NCU is the largest doctorate education facility in the world, they must be doing something right.

If you had a bad experience with them that is one thing and you are entitled to express you experience. But do not speak to things you cannot back with evidence and obviously do not understand. NCU is not driving down any standard. They are the least of our worries in the education arena considering the fact that they are reasonably priced compared to most and do not exploit Title IV.

You are also wrong about the resources available to students at NCU, I called and spoke with them, they do have what they called an ELRC (Electronic Learner Resource Center). As it was explained to me and a screen shot was sent, it looks a lot like Walden and UOP's online libraries.

Again, why should someone beware of colleges without a physical residency requirement? NCU does have multiple online PhD programs I am not sure what your claim is here.

To me, it sounds as if your comprehensive doctrine has been formulated by listening to those who work in a traditional college setting. These folks are the last people who should speak to or about the online arena. The history of resistance by the traditional sector has gone a little like this:

When online first began in the last 70's ground colleges rejected it as NEVER being a valid method of education. As it grew, it began to force ground colleges to become more service oriented. This meant meeting demand by their students for online courses. So many traditional ground campuses began offering single online coursework. Mind you, this was the format they claimed was invalid yet they found reason money to offer online. Their new claim was that online could only be reasonably used as a supplemental tool for valid education offered in a regular classroom, still claiming that fully online degrees were invalid. As online continued to grow and take market share, it once again forced the grand campus hand. They then began to offer fully online degree's such as Nova and Maryland. Suddenly their tune changed again, it is okay to offer online degrees but only if offered by a ground campus. Bottom line, they keep changing their tune to accommodate their own personal agenda. I believe that if you are going to go to school online then you are better off going to an online school. Ground campuses trying to offer online courses simply screw up the facilitation process because they are not consumer services oriented and are incapable of servicing the online populous affectively. They would like to believe their own hype, that because they are a ground campus they are somehow superior to the online schools. The fact is, the biggest complaint I heard about NOVA is that they don't help their students. So regardless of the rigor of the academics, it does not make the program better.

Many traditional ground campus educators have a sever superiority complex regarding education. They believe they are elite and that learning should be elite. This is the same line of thinking that has oppressed cultures, races and genders, and needs to be put out to pasture. It has no place in modern society. The only reason traditional campus instructors bad mouth online, is because online is a threat. It will get them nowhere.

You are entitled to your opinion, if you had a bad experience with NCU then outline that experience as I did with UOP. Be prepared to defend those claims as I have had to within this blog. If you cannot, your whole claim becomes rendered false. I support the efforts of NCU, Walden, and Capella.
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#249 Consumer Comment

Beware of Northcentral University online PhD programs!!!!

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

Beware of the Ph.D. on-line programs.

Please help me find the appropriate outlets to discuss on-line doctoral programs. I believe that we need to bring the deception to the forefront this year. I would like to explore several alternatives. Unless something is done soon, I believe that regional accreditation is going to lose value in the market place.

The schools with weak programs and that use deception are going to destroy the market value that many major corporations have built. In order to stay in this market many of the large for profit private schools may need to seek AACSB accreditation or risk the lost of a declining image of regional accreditation.

Beware of the correspondence Ph.D. on-line programs with no residence requirements.

Northcentral University is a good example of a school that will bring down the standards of regional accreditation. Northcentral University on-line purports to be 100% online but is primarily a correspondence school. NCU uses deceptive advertising. It purports to have an online Ph.D. program.

The school is a distance education correspondence program. It is not conducted over the Internet. The Internet capability of the university is grossly ineffective and is one of the weak links in its program. There is no interaction with students and very little, if any, assessment or interaction with professors.

It is what one of my colleagues called, a glorified correspondence school. Yet, NCU continues to promote itself as an on-line delivery system simply because there may be some limited emails and download files or information.

NCU may try to compare itself to large private programs, but these schools are mostly owned by publicly held corporations that are subject to Sarbanes Oxley and thus a higher standard of accountability. They also have the resources to provide multi-media on-line educational programs as well as the library and faculty resources to provide a viable program.

NCU does not have any of these. NCU has demonstrated very little accountability or service initiative. Although NCU is accredited, it promotes its services in a deceptive manner. It should be classified with unethical marketing scams. It is not an on-line program. It is a correspondence school.

NCU is not a student friendly environment, nor is it transparent and accountable in its disclosure. NCU advertising is deceptive and I believe that this is wrong and should be changed and or reported to the public at large. Their student service is not effective and their focus is primarily on money.

Students will receive much better service from large traditional or private universities. They continue to use false advertising and this warrants public disclosure and, at least, preventing others from falling for NCU's deceptions. Although they may rank well in terms of cost, please remember, you get what you pay for. And you will not get much from this correspondence school.

Students should search for an AACSB school or a regionally credited school that has a long successful history and/ or is backed by a credible organization that has the resources to provide a top rated program.

There is no doubt that on-line education and alternative delivery educational programs are an increasing trend. But there is a great difference in the educational quality of the various programs. There is a vast difference in the quality of regional accredited programs.

Sadly, Northcentral on-line may be the one that clearly pulls down the image of regional accreditation. Prospective students, employers and the educational community must be informed of this about this matter in order to make wise choices. 2007 should be the year to bring this out to the public at large and I hope that you play a role in helping with this process.

UOP has a doctorial program that is not AACSB accredited. Many teaching jobs in business schools required professors who are AACSB qualified. UOP has the potential to devote the resources to create a viable program. There has not been much discussion of the doctoral programs at UOP or whether they would ever seek AACSB accreditation. Students who desire a career in academia should beware of online programs that do not have substantial residential requirements.

Currently there are no on-line AACSB schools. Schools that offer alternative delivery PhD programs that may have credibility at the doctoral level could include the University of Maryland University College and Nova Southeastern.

The University of Maryland University College is one of 11 degree granting institutions of the University of Maryland system. Thus, it is a public university. Information on their doctorate in management can be found at:

http://www.umuc.edu/grad/dm/dm_home.shtml

Complete transparency on the University of Maryland University college accreditation and self study can be found at:

http://www.umuc.edu/middlestates/index.shtml

Nova southeastern is a private university and offers doctorate programs that are closer to traditional programs than the on-line programs. That is, they required residency via attendance of classes for their doctorate in business degree programs. They do offer on-line programs for other levels but not at the business doctorate level. This may be a selling point for their program for those wanting to enter academia in the teaching profession.

Information on Nova's accreditation activities can be found at:

http://www.nova.edu/rpga/accreditation.html

Nova is accredited by International Assembly for Collegiate Business Education and Commission on Colleges of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS).

Information on their doctorate programs can be found at:

http://www.huizenga.nova.edu/FutureStudents/Doctoral/DBA.cfm

Nova's web site is very transparent and they include syllabus for each class.

Nova also published their strategic plan.

http://www.nova.edu/cwis/strategic_plan/index.html.

Nova has made great achievements over the year and their doctorate program seem to be well structure and is expected to receive greater acceptance in academia. Nova is a non profit private university.

These are just two alternatives to on-line programs. There may be other viable programs that will gain credibility in academia. If you are not interested in teaching, then the accreditation and credibility of the school's program is of lesser importance.

Perhaps before you select a program, you should talk with potential university employers and ask them if they would hire you based on the PhD program you are considering. Both the reputation of the school and its specific program as well and faculty and student research will be considered in the employment decision. Please beware of the Ph.D. on-line programs. Do your homework wisely!
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#250 UPDATE EX-employee responds

please read this in the New York Times

AUTHOR: Caroline - (U.S.A.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/education/11phoenix.html?ex=1171861200&en=f00fa7d99fd80c89&ei=5070&emc=eta1

this article was published this week (FEB 2007) and confimrs the same concerns that both B and I and other UoP employees past and present in this thread have expressed.

let me say for anyone who keeps calling those of us who are not fans of UoP "disgruntled former employees" that UoP was VERY good to its employees (outside of the enrollment department). i and many other employees were given spa weekends, etc. as "thank yous" from the company. it is the students that get treated poorly.
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#251 Consumer Comment

University of Phoenix - UOP

AUTHOR: J A - (U.S.A.)

To all:

it's nice to know that I am not alone with my feelings about UOP. I was fastly recruited by their swift talking recruiters to say the least. No wonder it was so easy to enroll with only an $85 enrollment fee up front and it was understood that my stafford loans would take care of most of the tuition.

The recruiter lead me step by step what I had to do, but he did it rather quick to have me in class in less than 3 weeks and not reiterating what everything would mean for me or what types of out of pocket expenses I would ultimately have.

I think my first out of pocket expense cost me about $800. OK, since I was making about $30,000 (in NJ and it's not cheap to live here) I scraped up the money in 2 months. That meant no going out with friends to socialize since I had to pay that.

I hated the group projects because most of the time I did all the work yet all the students in the group got my grade. So unfair especially when people live in different areas of the country or other responsibilities and schedules to follow.

Few, if any, were able to meet online to discuss the project. Then you have the professors (2nd Algebra class), I ran into one who was never around to answer the students questions and I failed it, not realizing that my stafford loan was not going to cover it. I got a B+ in the first Algebra class but failed the second one because the professor never responded to my quesions about what I was doing wrong...as with other students. And if you don't complain to the school about the professor in the first week then you lost your case.

Most of the time you don't realize there was a problem until more than half way through the 2nd week. After that class I began searching for another online college and stumbled upon Kaplan University. Kaplan is a standing name for more than 30 years of helping students study for SATs, PSATs, CLEPs, and more. Kaplan had a better classroom set up and at the time had 3 extra weeks to the schedule to really soak up what you were learning. The professors are graded twice by the students (in the 4th week and at the end of the class). Whenever there is a problem the department heads monitor the class and professor. Students questions are addressed immediately no matter where they are in the class.

Needless to say, it was not a difficult decision to leave UOP. Then my problem got bigger. When I decided to leave UOP and signed the documents saying I was leaving, they then sprung it on me that they could not give my transcript to Kaplan because I owed them $1880!

When you are barely making what it takes to survive at $30K, having $1880 is unheard of especially when you have a disease called cystic fibrosis and your money goes toward medications and doctor appointments all the time. Nonetheless, hear it is 5 years later and I am just starting to get the money up to finally pay the $1880 off to get those credits transferred so I can graduate. I hope they don't just take my money and tell me they cannot transfer my credits over. I am going to go through my attorney to get this done just to be on the safe side.

PS I found these complaints on UOP by accident. WOW, someone really is on my side.

Thank you,

Julie G. - Belleville, NJ
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#252 Consumer Comment

University of Phoenix - UOP

AUTHOR: J A - (U.S.A.)

To all:

it's nice to know that I am not alone with my feelings about UOP. I was fastly recruited by their swift talking recruiters to say the least. No wonder it was so easy to enroll with only an $85 enrollment fee up front and it was understood that my stafford loans would take care of most of the tuition.

The recruiter lead me step by step what I had to do, but he did it rather quick to have me in class in less than 3 weeks and not reiterating what everything would mean for me or what types of out of pocket expenses I would ultimately have.

I think my first out of pocket expense cost me about $800. OK, since I was making about $30,000 (in NJ and it's not cheap to live here) I scraped up the money in 2 months. That meant no going out with friends to socialize since I had to pay that.

I hated the group projects because most of the time I did all the work yet all the students in the group got my grade. So unfair especially when people live in different areas of the country or other responsibilities and schedules to follow.

Few, if any, were able to meet online to discuss the project. Then you have the professors (2nd Algebra class), I ran into one who was never around to answer the students questions and I failed it, not realizing that my stafford loan was not going to cover it. I got a B+ in the first Algebra class but failed the second one because the professor never responded to my quesions about what I was doing wrong...as with other students. And if you don't complain to the school about the professor in the first week then you lost your case.

Most of the time you don't realize there was a problem until more than half way through the 2nd week. After that class I began searching for another online college and stumbled upon Kaplan University. Kaplan is a standing name for more than 30 years of helping students study for SATs, PSATs, CLEPs, and more. Kaplan had a better classroom set up and at the time had 3 extra weeks to the schedule to really soak up what you were learning. The professors are graded twice by the students (in the 4th week and at the end of the class). Whenever there is a problem the department heads monitor the class and professor. Students questions are addressed immediately no matter where they are in the class.

Needless to say, it was not a difficult decision to leave UOP. Then my problem got bigger. When I decided to leave UOP and signed the documents saying I was leaving, they then sprung it on me that they could not give my transcript to Kaplan because I owed them $1880!

When you are barely making what it takes to survive at $30K, having $1880 is unheard of especially when you have a disease called cystic fibrosis and your money goes toward medications and doctor appointments all the time. Nonetheless, hear it is 5 years later and I am just starting to get the money up to finally pay the $1880 off to get those credits transferred so I can graduate. I hope they don't just take my money and tell me they cannot transfer my credits over. I am going to go through my attorney to get this done just to be on the safe side.

PS I found these complaints on UOP by accident. WOW, someone really is on my side.

Thank you,

Julie G. - Belleville, NJ
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#253 Author of original report

To Joe

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Joe,

Thanks for the shout out. To answer your question about the audit of courses, the answer is no. They do provide a course demo on their website but this does not outline the details like check in and learning teams which often come as a surprise to many who enroll.

The degree requirements are laid out within the site. However, the reason many people run into problems is because they overestimated their credit transfer, they were lied to about potential credit transfer, or the credits that did transfer did not transfer into the areas they needed them.

Basically UOP/AXIA is a degree completion institution. Most people have tried and failed or discontinued their degree in the past and are looking to transfer credits. The ability to transfer credits is a huge selling point. Some advisors use this correctly, some are dishonest. Any potential applicant can ask for a pre-evaluation but they must have access to their transcripts to have this done.

Most applicants do not use the pre-evaluation service because they are un-aware it exists. This is intentional as it can delay enrollment. When the pressure is on the advisor to make the sale, they do not want anything hindering the close. Even if an unofficial evaluation is conducted, it only shows total credits transferable and this does not always explain to the applicant how their degree program will be set up.

Lets say a bachelor degree is 120 credits at UOP. Lets say a potential applicant has 96 credits from a prior college with a major in math. They are applying to the Business program at UOP. They are told by the enrollment advisor that UOP can accept almost all their credits as long as it is from a regionally accredited college.

What they leave out is that UOP has a minimum residency requirement of 30 credits to graduate. So they may take all 96 credits but that does not mean the student will only need 24 credits to graduate, it just means UOP accepted them. The student will still take at least 10 classes to graduate. In addition, 36 of their 90 are probably in math and only a few will transfer at the upper level for the business major. They will still need to take 45-60 credits in their major at UOP.

So basically, it may look like UOP accepted all their credits, but their credit transfer and actual degree plan are very different. The problem is this. There is so much pressure placed on applicants to get started ASAP that they often to no wait for their official evaluation to be conducted before starting their first course.

They agree to start their course in good faith that the initial conversation with the advisor with hold true once their evaluation is done. They have often already completed 1-2 courses before they see their true degree plan which may come as a shock.

At this point they owe the college between $1700 and $2500. If they drop their financial aid will not pay for those classes so they choose to stay until their FA is dispersed and they can drop without paying cash for those classes. This is a total scam and it is done intentionally by UOP to increase their retention overview. Although those people eventually drop after their first semester of courses, UOP is able to repost retention after 1, 2 and 3 classes. SHADY!

With regards to educated consumers, I agree that much of the onus is on the consumer to be aware of what they buy before they buy. But UOP preys on aspirations and dreams of many desperate people. Many of their students like what they get and have no issues. However, too many do not and the carnage of these individuals make up the substance UOP now thrives on.

The vast majority of educated consumers are still ignorant to education. No one really knows what it means to have regional accreditation. UOP uses this to compare themselves to other colleges under the same accreditation such as Michigan and Ohio State. Does this mean that all colleges under the same accreditation are equal? No, but the consumer assumes that because a body is accredited by a regional body, they are good quality and legit. This is not the case.

While it is smart for potential consumers of UOP to investigate, being lied to about something while investigating presents issue for trusting consumers. I believe that a corporate entity, at the basic operating level, has an obligation to be honest with a consumer.

This is the art of the sale. UOP is notoriously dishonest with their methods. As a society we assign basic individual rights to a corporation. However, we overlook the fact that a person has at some level, a moral/ethical compass to navigate and govern them. Corporations have no such compass. We call it business ethics but the US Corporate track record on ethics is less than stellar.

Too many businesses operated their ethics based upon, If we can get away with it, it must be ethical. While I would like to place the responsibility on consumers in this case, UOP has a great disguise with their accreditation and Title IV to look like they are legit. Because of this it is too difficult for consumers to make heads or tails of them. This is why I fight the fight.

I hope that by deterring enough consumers away from UOP it will hit them where it hurts, profits, and make them change their ways. It is a pipe dream and the loss of a few hundred students is no issue. They must lose accreditation which is very hard to do, or they must lose Title IV which they just might.

There is no good solution to this problem. It will take time. UOP (Apollo) has placed their future in the 18-23 year old population. This is a gamble I think will backfire. Online learning is a great forum, but 18-23 year olds are often looking for and needing a different college experience UOP cannot provide. I believe they will lose this bet and their greed for growth will cause them to ignore their adult learner population and other colleges will continue to eat away at their market share.
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#254 Consumer Comment

UOP... is it your fualt that you bought the hype?

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

First off let me say to "B" thank you for a witty and fun read. I actually read the whole thread!

I have some questions of the responsibility of those who purchase the services of this corporate entity known as UOP. Do you not have the option to audit a course before you enter the semester or whatever your term is called? It would behoove anyone considering to throw 25-50k at a degree that they might want to check it out before hand.

Are you unable to find your degree requirements? Why do I hear all these stories of people not knowing what they need to graduate??? I remember in my time at Clemson I picked up a course book and sat down and mapped my degree myself and any trip to the couselor was just the freshman orientation formality.

Why haven't any of the UOP grads here who "rightfully" whine about the uselessness of their degree make a few phone calls to HRs and academic advisors to REAL unis that would answer your transfer and degree quality questions? All of them will tell you a UOP degree is next to worthless and won't transfer. It just takes a few calls.

Why didn't you people come online to threads like this to read reviews of UOP before you buy? I check online reviews of products under 100 bucks, I think you should do it for spending 25-50k dollars!

I will not blame you for getting the worst customer service known to man and getting a speal better than the best car salesmen to dupe you into attending this "degree mill" but couldn't a little investigation on your part have uncovered these facts before you jumped in?

Just because it is convienient doesn't mean it is a worthwhile degree. It is generally the ones that are inconvienient that are worth their salt, ie day classes. Next on the ladder is night/weekend classes at the traditional hub and your third resort is online at these well known institutions. The last resort are these for profit corporations with UOP being the worst. I had to quit my day job and work nights so I could go to just an in-state uni.

I just want to comment on these "you get what you put into it" remarks that all defenders of UOP use. I know someone who dropped out of Clemson to go to UOP in SC and his GPA at Clemson was a 1.65, at UOP it was a 3.95. He said that traditional college didn't fit his learning style, the only style he had was to come in hung over every day! Ladies and gentlemen, you seriously need to revaluate the value of a degree. Is it worth spending 25-50k on a degree that has a 95% chance of earning you nothing? The more trasitional your education the more it will be respected, I understand those of you with children can't ever do what I did but those who don't have an opportunity to attend in-state uni and get a degree that you will get the most bang for you buck with. The more your degree is respected the more it is worth. As B likes to state you wouldn't want a Pinto for the price of a Cadillac, go for the darned Cadillac!!!
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#255 Consumer Comment

Intel also dropped

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Intel also dropped support for Strayer because they did not meet the requirements as well. In this article they also mentioned that UOP also does the same thing. They did not have the business certification that Intel was looking for so they dropped them as well. It is nice to see they also dropped UOP.
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#256 Consumer Comment

Intel also dropped

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Intel also dropped support for Strayer because they did not meet the requirements as well. In this article they also mentioned that UOP also does the same thing. They did not have the business certification that Intel was looking for so they dropped them as well. It is nice to see they also dropped UOP.
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#257 Consumer Comment

Intel also dropped

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Intel also dropped support for Strayer because they did not meet the requirements as well. In this article they also mentioned that UOP also does the same thing. They did not have the business certification that Intel was looking for so they dropped them as well. It is nice to see they also dropped UOP.
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#258 Consumer Comment

Intel also dropped

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Intel also dropped support for Strayer because they did not meet the requirements as well. In this article they also mentioned that UOP also does the same thing. They did not have the business certification that Intel was looking for so they dropped them as well. It is nice to see they also dropped UOP.
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#259 Consumer Comment

I forgot to mention

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I forgot to mention that for me I want a degree that does not state that it is an online degree. I want it to say the same thing as those attending the university. I also want it to be more like attending the university such as seeing the teachers lectures instead of just reading notes of the lecture. I also want to be responsible for my own work. I do not want others relying on me and I do not want to rely on others for my grade. I also want to get the grade that I earn.

I have read about to many schools that give out A's for sub par work which means the degree is not worth the paper it is printed on. This is why I did my research and I hope that others do their's as well before putting down good money on a program. See if you can see what a class would be like before signing up. This way you can see if it is in fact what you would like to take. What others are saying is so true. Now more then ever you have to investigate things for yourself.
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#260 Consumer Comment

I forgot to mention

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I forgot to mention that for me I want a degree that does not state that it is an online degree. I want it to say the same thing as those attending the university. I also want it to be more like attending the university such as seeing the teachers lectures instead of just reading notes of the lecture. I also want to be responsible for my own work. I do not want others relying on me and I do not want to rely on others for my grade. I also want to get the grade that I earn.

I have read about to many schools that give out A's for sub par work which means the degree is not worth the paper it is printed on. This is why I did my research and I hope that others do their's as well before putting down good money on a program. See if you can see what a class would be like before signing up. This way you can see if it is in fact what you would like to take. What others are saying is so true. Now more then ever you have to investigate things for yourself.
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#261 Consumer Comment

I forgot to mention

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I forgot to mention that for me I want a degree that does not state that it is an online degree. I want it to say the same thing as those attending the university. I also want it to be more like attending the university such as seeing the teachers lectures instead of just reading notes of the lecture. I also want to be responsible for my own work. I do not want others relying on me and I do not want to rely on others for my grade. I also want to get the grade that I earn.

I have read about to many schools that give out A's for sub par work which means the degree is not worth the paper it is printed on. This is why I did my research and I hope that others do their's as well before putting down good money on a program. See if you can see what a class would be like before signing up. This way you can see if it is in fact what you would like to take. What others are saying is so true. Now more then ever you have to investigate things for yourself.
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#262 Consumer Comment

I forgot to mention

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I forgot to mention that for me I want a degree that does not state that it is an online degree. I want it to say the same thing as those attending the university. I also want it to be more like attending the university such as seeing the teachers lectures instead of just reading notes of the lecture. I also want to be responsible for my own work. I do not want others relying on me and I do not want to rely on others for my grade. I also want to get the grade that I earn.

I have read about to many schools that give out A's for sub par work which means the degree is not worth the paper it is printed on. This is why I did my research and I hope that others do their's as well before putting down good money on a program. See if you can see what a class would be like before signing up. This way you can see if it is in fact what you would like to take. What others are saying is so true. Now more then ever you have to investigate things for yourself.
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#263 Consumer Comment

Some things to consider

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Before signing up with any school do your home work. I had signed up with a number of schools just to get information. I did this before I did my research on these schools. I was shocked with what I found out about most of them.

------ told me that some are on probation and this they will not tell you so do your research first. See if you can get into a class and see if it is some thing that you will like. One lady I had in a math class from my local university suggested that I check out ---- as her brother was taking online classes through them. I have not seen this suggested so thought that I would suggest it.

I have never gone to UOP but did take the test but never did take classes as I thought back then that you paid for your degree. I did not feel that you could learn any thing in 5 weeks. I know that I was thinking of taking computer science there and did not think that you could learn programming in 5 weeks so I went else where.

I did not complete my degree and with my work schedule I am thinking of going back to school. I know that more and more jobs are requiring a degree as you can not work your way up like you used to be able to do. Because of this I am looking at going back to school online. I really appreciate all this information. It made my decision not to go to UOP campus or online that much easier.

sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

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#264 Consumer Comment

Intel cuts UOP from tuition reimbursement list

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

"We are not seeing the preferred outcomes from the enrollment of Intel employees at certain for-profit schools, such as the Univ. of Phoenix, owned by the Phoenix, Ariz. based Apollo Group," said Intel spokesman Bill Mckenzie.

So, Intel hammers UOP by dropping UOP tuition reimbursement. Alan Fisher, Intel's Extended Education Manager followed up with this scorching remark," it's a reflection of the high standards Intel has."

UOP has graduated hundreds of Intel employees and those graduates simply have not passed muster, and "could not compete for internal openings with outside candidates, who often were held to higher educational standards."

There you have it, folks. Intel has 100,000 employees and has summarily flunked UOP/Apollo. Lots of other schools made the cut, including all of Arizona's(UOP'HQ)public Universities. Heck, even DeVry survived; but NOT UOP.

Now, it's not only United States v. UOP (just type those words into Google for THAT story) but, also, Intel v. UOP.

What happens when all the other corporate hiring managers find out that Intel has canned UOP? Intel now has a huge sampling of UOP grads within their ranks and has found they are getting clobbered in the workplace by graduates of real Universities.
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#265 Consumer Comment

Intel cuts UOP from tuition reimbursement list

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

"We are not seeing the preferred outcomes from the enrollment of Intel employees at certain for-profit schools, such as the Univ. of Phoenix, owned by the Phoenix, Ariz. based Apollo Group," said Intel spokesman Bill Mckenzie.

So, Intel hammers UOP by dropping UOP tuition reimbursement. Alan Fisher, Intel's Extended Education Manager followed up with this scorching remark," it's a reflection of the high standards Intel has."

UOP has graduated hundreds of Intel employees and those graduates simply have not passed muster, and "could not compete for internal openings with outside candidates, who often were held to higher educational standards."

There you have it, folks. Intel has 100,000 employees and has summarily flunked UOP/Apollo. Lots of other schools made the cut, including all of Arizona's(UOP'HQ)public Universities. Heck, even DeVry survived; but NOT UOP.

Now, it's not only United States v. UOP (just type those words into Google for THAT story) but, also, Intel v. UOP.

What happens when all the other corporate hiring managers find out that Intel has canned UOP? Intel now has a huge sampling of UOP grads within their ranks and has found they are getting clobbered in the workplace by graduates of real Universities.
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#266 Consumer Comment

Intel cuts UOP from tuition reimbursement list

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

"We are not seeing the preferred outcomes from the enrollment of Intel employees at certain for-profit schools, such as the Univ. of Phoenix, owned by the Phoenix, Ariz. based Apollo Group," said Intel spokesman Bill Mckenzie.

So, Intel hammers UOP by dropping UOP tuition reimbursement. Alan Fisher, Intel's Extended Education Manager followed up with this scorching remark," it's a reflection of the high standards Intel has."

UOP has graduated hundreds of Intel employees and those graduates simply have not passed muster, and "could not compete for internal openings with outside candidates, who often were held to higher educational standards."

There you have it, folks. Intel has 100,000 employees and has summarily flunked UOP/Apollo. Lots of other schools made the cut, including all of Arizona's(UOP'HQ)public Universities. Heck, even DeVry survived; but NOT UOP.

Now, it's not only United States v. UOP (just type those words into Google for THAT story) but, also, Intel v. UOP.

What happens when all the other corporate hiring managers find out that Intel has canned UOP? Intel now has a huge sampling of UOP grads within their ranks and has found they are getting clobbered in the workplace by graduates of real Universities.
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#267 Consumer Comment

Intel cuts UOP from tuition reimbursement list

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

"We are not seeing the preferred outcomes from the enrollment of Intel employees at certain for-profit schools, such as the Univ. of Phoenix, owned by the Phoenix, Ariz. based Apollo Group," said Intel spokesman Bill Mckenzie.

So, Intel hammers UOP by dropping UOP tuition reimbursement. Alan Fisher, Intel's Extended Education Manager followed up with this scorching remark," it's a reflection of the high standards Intel has."

UOP has graduated hundreds of Intel employees and those graduates simply have not passed muster, and "could not compete for internal openings with outside candidates, who often were held to higher educational standards."

There you have it, folks. Intel has 100,000 employees and has summarily flunked UOP/Apollo. Lots of other schools made the cut, including all of Arizona's(UOP'HQ)public Universities. Heck, even DeVry survived; but NOT UOP.

Now, it's not only United States v. UOP (just type those words into Google for THAT story) but, also, Intel v. UOP.

What happens when all the other corporate hiring managers find out that Intel has canned UOP? Intel now has a huge sampling of UOP grads within their ranks and has found they are getting clobbered in the workplace by graduates of real Universities.
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#268 Author of original report

To Jesse

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Jesse,

To answer your first question I must speculate. Credit transfer is often different from college to college. Usually it is based upon a few criteria such as course level (bachelor, master, doctorate), course relevance (how the credits relate to the program you transfer to), accreditation, and grade. If you are in graduate level courses, most colleges will only accept 0-2 classes in transfer to their same graduate program. UOP's credits are acceptable based off of most criteria but you will probably find it difficult to transfer master credits in to another college. I think Walden has a 6 credit hour transfer minimum for their master programs.

The second question is subjective and calls for opinion. As mentioned in earlier posts, there are some direct competitors with UOP that try to do it right. Nova, Walden, Capella, Northcentral, National, etc. The line between online and ground is blurring as many traditional ground universities offer online coursework and degree programs. Basically there are 3 or 4 colleges to stay away from. UOP, Kaplan, American Intercontinental University, and any college owned by EDMC (Art Institute, Agrosy, Brown Mackie, and South University)
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#269 Consumer Comment

Thanx You B and others: Made my decision easier!

AUTHOR: Jesse - (Taiwan)

First off thank you B!

I have spent an embarrassing amount of time reading this rather shockingly long debate today. I have been attending U of P for about 6 months and had been increasingly uneasy about the whole process the entire time. However; the events of the last short while, along with reading through the posts here and in other locations, have confirmed my belief that this so called institution of higher learning' is a farce. I feel ashamed that I was able to convince myself this long that all was kosher. I guess the will to see the good in something you really want to work out has a mystifying quality that obscures reality. I suppose it is this quality that has taken many an intelligent man down with a foundering business or allowed a person to endure years involved in a terrible marriage or other form of relationship. It is this quality that allowed me to rationalize my way through the joke of a first class professional' communications and hope that there was a rainbow on the horizon and not the _ _ _ _ (expletive deleted) storm that has blown over as of late. I have degrees (one of them a professional degree) from two of the finest universities in my country that I am quite proud of. I was hoping to acquire a means to develop professionally in a manner that is unavailable to me in my current setting (as I am overseas) and was initially looking at a program with Walden. It turned out that when I had some money saved I could no longer access that option in this country, so I opted to give Phoenix a go.

Right from the get go I (as well as my significant other) had reservations about my decision, but (see above) I decided to go on with it anyway. My first class was not worthy of an undergraduate, let alone graduate, level designation which should have been evidence enough for me to overturn my decision to attend U of P. (see above). Yet, the next couple of courses were alright. I had diligent instructors and it seemed like most of the others in my classes were fairly capable individuals with a desire to learn and better themselves professionally.

Than it began: The next class had three people in it including myself. The other two had a limited command on English, and an even more limited command on the material. I did all the work and finished the course frustrated and ready to quit (see above). The next course was mediocre at best, and a time zone conflict resulted in a barrage of personal attacks from an incensed individual behaving like a rabbit with an amygdalectomy. Again I was left thinking how can this be at a graduate level? I have completed a graduate program at a prestigious university and was surrounded with, by and large, very intelligent articulate people capable of well reasoned-rational-objective debate (as one would, and I feel, should expect).

The kicker: Without going into too great a detail my last class was a shocker, it was pathetic. The new online learning system is rotten, to say it is less reliable than a poorly designed beta version of some second rate software would be a compliment. Not to mention that the server has been crashing all the more frequently, and you call technical service and get to wait on hold for an hour plus while paying the long distance tariff. All this grief and more at a premium price! I must have become a masochist and have simultaneously become too unaware to know it! Another stone to through is the fact that some grimly poor work that was turned in by my learning group in my last class and was given a very high grade. I knew it to be rife with errors, yet this A grade appeared as if by magic. Who if anyone actually looked this thing over? was all that came to mind.
I had become increasingly critical of the whole process finally shedding the cloak of rationalization I had been wearing (see above) and over the last few days (with very little effort) I have read through myriad reports of scenarios analogous to my own; as well as much worse information about the University of Phoenix that I would have never fathomed existed. Had it not been for my geographic location I would have never taken this road to ruin, I am just glad that I have decided to cut loose of it before more of my time and hard earned money had been squandered on a meaningless degree. Lined up next to my prior degrees all one could ask would be why? I talked to a friend (we went trough undergraduate neuroscience together) who doing his PhD at home and mentioned what I had been up to and his response was What?.... don't they have schools over there? how much are you paying for that? are you taking crack? Snicker.snickersnicker.

It was a wake up call, I had no idea about the north American perception of this university and foolishly assumed that if it was granted the ability to collect students loans from the American government that it mush be above board.

I was so eager to get back into to school and further my education, taking on the challenges of simultaneously working and perusing another graduate degree, that I let my ambition obscure reality and did not allow myself to hit the brakes when all the red signals started to appear from the beginning. I am only out of pocket for a quarter of the cost so far so I guess I should consider myself lucky in that sense.

B as you seem to be very much in the know concerning the online learning situation in America I have a couple of quick questions for you. First, I was wondering if there is any possibility that Walden or some other online school grant transfer credits for U of P coursework? Second, if transfer is possible what online university has highest degree of legitimate merit?
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#270 Consumer Comment

Thanx You B and others: Made my decision easier!

AUTHOR: Jesse - (Taiwan)

First off thank you B!

I have spent an embarrassing amount of time reading this rather shockingly long debate today. I have been attending U of P for about 6 months and had been increasingly uneasy about the whole process the entire time. However; the events of the last short while, along with reading through the posts here and in other locations, have confirmed my belief that this so called institution of higher learning' is a farce. I feel ashamed that I was able to convince myself this long that all was kosher. I guess the will to see the good in something you really want to work out has a mystifying quality that obscures reality. I suppose it is this quality that has taken many an intelligent man down with a foundering business or allowed a person to endure years involved in a terrible marriage or other form of relationship. It is this quality that allowed me to rationalize my way through the joke of a first class professional' communications and hope that there was a rainbow on the horizon and not the _ _ _ _ (expletive deleted) storm that has blown over as of late. I have degrees (one of them a professional degree) from two of the finest universities in my country that I am quite proud of. I was hoping to acquire a means to develop professionally in a manner that is unavailable to me in my current setting (as I am overseas) and was initially looking at a program with Walden. It turned out that when I had some money saved I could no longer access that option in this country, so I opted to give Phoenix a go.

Right from the get go I (as well as my significant other) had reservations about my decision, but (see above) I decided to go on with it anyway. My first class was not worthy of an undergraduate, let alone graduate, level designation which should have been evidence enough for me to overturn my decision to attend U of P. (see above). Yet, the next couple of courses were alright. I had diligent instructors and it seemed like most of the others in my classes were fairly capable individuals with a desire to learn and better themselves professionally.

Than it began: The next class had three people in it including myself. The other two had a limited command on English, and an even more limited command on the material. I did all the work and finished the course frustrated and ready to quit (see above). The next course was mediocre at best, and a time zone conflict resulted in a barrage of personal attacks from an incensed individual behaving like a rabbit with an amygdalectomy. Again I was left thinking how can this be at a graduate level? I have completed a graduate program at a prestigious university and was surrounded with, by and large, very intelligent articulate people capable of well reasoned-rational-objective debate (as one would, and I feel, should expect).

The kicker: Without going into too great a detail my last class was a shocker, it was pathetic. The new online learning system is rotten, to say it is less reliable than a poorly designed beta version of some second rate software would be a compliment. Not to mention that the server has been crashing all the more frequently, and you call technical service and get to wait on hold for an hour plus while paying the long distance tariff. All this grief and more at a premium price! I must have become a masochist and have simultaneously become too unaware to know it! Another stone to through is the fact that some grimly poor work that was turned in by my learning group in my last class and was given a very high grade. I knew it to be rife with errors, yet this A grade appeared as if by magic. Who if anyone actually looked this thing over? was all that came to mind.
I had become increasingly critical of the whole process finally shedding the cloak of rationalization I had been wearing (see above) and over the last few days (with very little effort) I have read through myriad reports of scenarios analogous to my own; as well as much worse information about the University of Phoenix that I would have never fathomed existed. Had it not been for my geographic location I would have never taken this road to ruin, I am just glad that I have decided to cut loose of it before more of my time and hard earned money had been squandered on a meaningless degree. Lined up next to my prior degrees all one could ask would be why? I talked to a friend (we went trough undergraduate neuroscience together) who doing his PhD at home and mentioned what I had been up to and his response was What?.... don't they have schools over there? how much are you paying for that? are you taking crack? Snicker.snickersnicker.

It was a wake up call, I had no idea about the north American perception of this university and foolishly assumed that if it was granted the ability to collect students loans from the American government that it mush be above board.

I was so eager to get back into to school and further my education, taking on the challenges of simultaneously working and perusing another graduate degree, that I let my ambition obscure reality and did not allow myself to hit the brakes when all the red signals started to appear from the beginning. I am only out of pocket for a quarter of the cost so far so I guess I should consider myself lucky in that sense.

B as you seem to be very much in the know concerning the online learning situation in America I have a couple of quick questions for you. First, I was wondering if there is any possibility that Walden or some other online school grant transfer credits for U of P coursework? Second, if transfer is possible what online university has highest degree of legitimate merit?
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#271 Consumer Comment

Thanx You B and others: Made my decision easier!

AUTHOR: Jesse - (Taiwan)

First off thank you B!

I have spent an embarrassing amount of time reading this rather shockingly long debate today. I have been attending U of P for about 6 months and had been increasingly uneasy about the whole process the entire time. However; the events of the last short while, along with reading through the posts here and in other locations, have confirmed my belief that this so called institution of higher learning' is a farce. I feel ashamed that I was able to convince myself this long that all was kosher. I guess the will to see the good in something you really want to work out has a mystifying quality that obscures reality. I suppose it is this quality that has taken many an intelligent man down with a foundering business or allowed a person to endure years involved in a terrible marriage or other form of relationship. It is this quality that allowed me to rationalize my way through the joke of a first class professional' communications and hope that there was a rainbow on the horizon and not the _ _ _ _ (expletive deleted) storm that has blown over as of late. I have degrees (one of them a professional degree) from two of the finest universities in my country that I am quite proud of. I was hoping to acquire a means to develop professionally in a manner that is unavailable to me in my current setting (as I am overseas) and was initially looking at a program with Walden. It turned out that when I had some money saved I could no longer access that option in this country, so I opted to give Phoenix a go.

Right from the get go I (as well as my significant other) had reservations about my decision, but (see above) I decided to go on with it anyway. My first class was not worthy of an undergraduate, let alone graduate, level designation which should have been evidence enough for me to overturn my decision to attend U of P. (see above). Yet, the next couple of courses were alright. I had diligent instructors and it seemed like most of the others in my classes were fairly capable individuals with a desire to learn and better themselves professionally.

Than it began: The next class had three people in it including myself. The other two had a limited command on English, and an even more limited command on the material. I did all the work and finished the course frustrated and ready to quit (see above). The next course was mediocre at best, and a time zone conflict resulted in a barrage of personal attacks from an incensed individual behaving like a rabbit with an amygdalectomy. Again I was left thinking how can this be at a graduate level? I have completed a graduate program at a prestigious university and was surrounded with, by and large, very intelligent articulate people capable of well reasoned-rational-objective debate (as one would, and I feel, should expect).

The kicker: Without going into too great a detail my last class was a shocker, it was pathetic. The new online learning system is rotten, to say it is less reliable than a poorly designed beta version of some second rate software would be a compliment. Not to mention that the server has been crashing all the more frequently, and you call technical service and get to wait on hold for an hour plus while paying the long distance tariff. All this grief and more at a premium price! I must have become a masochist and have simultaneously become too unaware to know it! Another stone to through is the fact that some grimly poor work that was turned in by my learning group in my last class and was given a very high grade. I knew it to be rife with errors, yet this A grade appeared as if by magic. Who if anyone actually looked this thing over? was all that came to mind.
I had become increasingly critical of the whole process finally shedding the cloak of rationalization I had been wearing (see above) and over the last few days (with very little effort) I have read through myriad reports of scenarios analogous to my own; as well as much worse information about the University of Phoenix that I would have never fathomed existed. Had it not been for my geographic location I would have never taken this road to ruin, I am just glad that I have decided to cut loose of it before more of my time and hard earned money had been squandered on a meaningless degree. Lined up next to my prior degrees all one could ask would be why? I talked to a friend (we went trough undergraduate neuroscience together) who doing his PhD at home and mentioned what I had been up to and his response was What?.... don't they have schools over there? how much are you paying for that? are you taking crack? Snicker.snickersnicker.

It was a wake up call, I had no idea about the north American perception of this university and foolishly assumed that if it was granted the ability to collect students loans from the American government that it mush be above board.

I was so eager to get back into to school and further my education, taking on the challenges of simultaneously working and perusing another graduate degree, that I let my ambition obscure reality and did not allow myself to hit the brakes when all the red signals started to appear from the beginning. I am only out of pocket for a quarter of the cost so far so I guess I should consider myself lucky in that sense.

B as you seem to be very much in the know concerning the online learning situation in America I have a couple of quick questions for you. First, I was wondering if there is any possibility that Walden or some other online school grant transfer credits for U of P coursework? Second, if transfer is possible what online university has highest degree of legitimate merit?
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#272 Author of original report

To Bonnie

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Stafford Loans are based upon your current academic level (Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior) which dictates your total Stafford Amount. According to levels listed before the funding is as follows: $6500, $7400, $10,500, $10,500. However, if you applied for the loan and you were under 24 years of age, you are not married, and do no have children, you would be considered (dependent) and only eligible for roughly those amounts listed. You would have needed a Parent Plus Loan Denial or Approval to borrow or be awarded the rest of the funding.

If you are attending AXIA, it was my understanding that your tuition should be covered for your first two years by the Stafford Loan unless you are a (dependent) borrower in which case you would have roughly $3,000 out of pocket your first year.

If you are at UOP, you would still be short on funding even if you qualify for the full amount of Stafford. Tuition at UOP Undergrad for 24 credit hours is $11,856.00 plus book fees of $85 per course (8 Courses) putting your first year total at $12,536.00. The Stafford only covers $10,500. When you break it down they should be telling you that by your 4th class you would owe about $500. This will occur again when you get to your 8th class.

With regards to your question on enrollment, there is not a specific answer for you. Yes, you can transfer to another school whenever you would like. However, if your financial aid has not been distributed to UOP/AIXA yet and you have completed a course, once you drop they will be required to cancel or send back the aid. This will leave you will an outstanding balance at UOP/AXIA for the course/s your have taken. They will not release your credits until your balance is paid. In addition, they may send you to collections.

If your funding has been distributed to UOP/AXIA, then you will not be able to use Stafford at another college until they return the funds to your lender. Most of the time if you have taken a few courses, your funds are returned less the money used to pay your tuition for those courses. As you are only eligible for a certain dollar amount for Stafford each academic year, therefore you would be short on funding if you transfer to another school.

The best thing to do is drop and begin paying off the balance at UOP/AXIA or making small payments towards your loan balance. Once you are in a new academic year, you can apply at a different school and use the full Stafford Loan again.

If it is any consolation, you are not alone. Many others run into this problem there.
Good Luck
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#273 Consumer Comment

transfering

AUTHOR: Bonnie - (U.S.A.)

Is their a policy on how long you have to stay enrolled with them befor you can transfer to another school. I have been there for 8 weeks and I have a stafford loan that for some reason doesnt cover all my expences. I would like to change schools but i dont want to owe them any money or lose out money on my loan. please tell me the best way to leave this school. I cannot afford to pay 400 out of pocket every semester plus 3500 in loans. thank you.
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#274 Consumer Suggestion

From a Consumer/Employers Perspective

AUTHOR: Kate - (U.S.A.)

U of P. I researched this organization while I was looking for an online option to continue to advance toward my degree.

What I found.

1. Accredited colleges will not accept credit transfers from this unrecognized' institution.
2. Corporate entities now use big three credit reporting services to validate higher learning degrees. They do not recognize University of Phoenix.
3. University of Phoenix is a well known entity for predatory lending and collection practices.
4. A long history of government sanction and practice renovations to accommodate challenges to their Title standing.

So if you would like a degree that will not be recognized by real colleges or the types of companies you would HOPE to go to work for and you'd like to enter into an indentured servitude type of relationship with a well known predator go ahead and sign up with this organization!
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#275 Consumer Comment

Apollo (UOP) v. Enron--a stock collapse perspective

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

To follow up on my previous comments lets put into perspective Apollo's stock collapse with that of the late, not-so-great, Enron.

For the one-year period, Sept. 00-01 Enron stock free-falled from 90 to 38 dollars, losing 58% of it's market value.

For the one-year period, Oct. 05-06 Apollo (UOP) stock free-falled from 73 to 36 dollars, losing 51% of it's market value, ranking the Apollo stock collapse as one of the most spectacular of all time.

Even more "impressive" is the fact that the broad markets (Dow, NASDAQ, S&P 500) have registered spectacular gains over the past year.
Enron caught the 9/11 whammy, which really exacerbated the situation.

Now, Enron stock ended up at 30 cents. I'm not claiming that'll ever happen to Apollo. What I am saying is don't think that buying stadium naming rights will lend UOP any more credibililty to it's shareholders or enhance it's academic reputation. UOP's biggest fall came AFTER they were dumb enough to pull the Stadium stunt.

Other companies have tried to give shareholders/clients "warm-and-fuzzies" by buying stadium naming rights, like, say, Enron Field (Houston Astros. Or, how about Adelphia Coliseum? (Tennessee Titans) Or the TWA Dome (St.Louis Rams)?...seems like buying stadium naming rights is, these days anyway, the Kiss of Death.
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#276 Consumer Comment

Apollo Stock Option Investigation--Major Deficiencies

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

Look out, B. Today, the market is at an all-time high of over 12,000. Apollo stock, however, is now in full collapse--having plummeted 22% in one day to 36 bucks. The stock has now gone from 100 to 36 in two years and from 73 to 36 in one year; an almost unbelievable event considering Apollo is now bucking record market advances across such a huge expanse of worldwide equity investment.

In a letter to its clients, Prudential Equity Group stated, this collapse, "raises many questions about the health of the business model." We aren't talking about Title IV, exclusively, anymore; now, we're into an eerie
"Enron-esque, it's deja-vu all over again scenario." (Anybody out there remember Enron Field, home of the Houston Astros?) Now we have UOP Stadium, home of the pathetic, NFL laughingstock, Arizona Cardinals, which Wall Street wags term, "The Aviary of Incompetence."

Apollo may now have to restate past financial statements and has missed the deadline for filing it's third quarter report with the SEC.

Now, not only is the Attorney General of New York and the SEC pulling the string on Apollo, the US Attorney has gotten into the act with a subpoena targeting Apollo accounting and stock option practices.

I never dreamed Apollo stock would tank an additional 22% on the day Wall Street registers its all-time high.

WOW!!!!
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#277 UPDATE EX-employee responds

UOP seems to have bought their way out of the tight spot they were in...

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

This is an Article taken from aacroa.org about the tactics UOP has used to position themselves for the upcomming lawsuit. What it looks like is that the DOE (Mistakenly) gave UOP legal documents outlining the plaintiffs entire case. Seems a little questionable to me. In earlier posts I mention that they are in trouble if they are not allowed to buy their way out of this one, looks like they found someone in the DOE who was willing to play ball with them. In any other legal case, the defense team would be thrown off the case.

Department of Education Error Resulted in University of Phoenix Receiving Sensitive Legal Documents
According to the Chronicle of Higher Education, the U.S. Department of Education provided sensitive legal documents to Apollo Group, the parent company of University of Phoenix, including the entire legal strategy for a whistle-blower suit against the firm. The suit, which was recently reinstated by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, could leave the school liable for billions of dollars it received from federal aid programs. The plaintiffs allege that the aid was fraudulently obtained.

The documents were provided to Apollo Group over a year ago after its lawyers filed a request for their release under the Freedom of Information Act. The Department contends the documents were released in error and has requested Apollo Group return them. Apollo is refusing to do so saying the documents are now part of the public record and were obtained legally after intense and protracted scrutiny at multiple levels within the department.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs are reportedly incensed and plan to move that the firm representing Apollo be disqualified from the case. "It's as if we had a burglar come into our office and rummage through our files," a member of the plaintiffs' counsel told the Chronicle.

The case centers on whether the school paid illegal incentive compensation to recruiters and admissions officers. The U.S. Department of Education bans any commission, bonus, or other incentive payment based directly or indirectly on success in securing enrollments.
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#278 Author of original report

Tonia

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

The online education industry has forced the hand of the traditional colleges to be more flexible to students. Bascially, it has made all colleges look at students as consumers of a product/service/commodity in stead of just applicants. Only certain colleges can afford to just wait for the top applicants in their state or the nation to apply to them. Anymore, educational consumers have demanded more which is why you see so many brick and mortar traditional campuses offering online programs. The problem is that ground campuses lack the infrastructure and the "know how" when it comes to entering the online market. It is a totally different animal.

It would not always make sense to look at a B&M over an online. Many B&M online offerings are still structured much like the ground courses simply becuase the college does not know of a better way to do it. Not to mention, these B&M's are only looking to appease the needs of their current student body, many of which want to just take 1 or 2 online courses to compensate for schedule restrictions. This means that the B&M online format is often much different that colleges that focus on online.

Ultimately, you need to make the decision based upon a few factors: 1. Schedule (Do I work a 40 hour week and have a life, what program fits around that NOT what can I fit around a program)2. Time (if I make this work, how long will this take me) 3. Content (What are these classes like, is it conducive to my learning style) 4. Program (How does this program related to my educational/professional goals? 5. Cost (What will the cost me, what will me return of investment of time and money get me?)6. Options for payment. (What options are available, what do you need as a student).

A good college will help you answer these questions. Again, if you feel more comfortable with ground then go there.

Good Luck

sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

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#279 Consumer Comment

Online Vs. Brick & Mortar

AUTHOR: Tonia - (U.S.A.)

B & All:

Thank you for the quick post. What accreditation should one look for when choosing an online school?

Wouldn't it make more sense to always go to a brick and mortar college? I mean as far as the degree turning into a career?

My fear of the b and m school is the attention and the system in place with some of these colleges. NCU seams to have had a system in place for quite a while. There are other schools too like Drexel and Penn State. They are limited in what they offer. Also, I have heard that the professors in some of the b and m schools don't get back to you in a timely manner. Since they are so new to this arena there isn't anything about them on the net, review wise, good or bad.

If money wasn't an issue wouldn't this be the way to go? Or are Walden and Capella just as good?

Other on-lines I've looked into are Belevue, Troy, Excelsior, UMass, Empire State College and Southwest.

What to do what to do. There are so many.
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#280 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Tonia

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Hi Tonia

Walden is good but you need at least 30 transferrable credits to get in.

Capella is good but their tuition structure is a little funky and can run on the high side depending on how long it takes you.

Strayer, not sure about with the bach program.

NCU is in process of re-design and I have heard rumors that they are going Title IV for the undergrad program and re-structing it so teh price point will be abuot $25K for the degree. This si rumor and nothing soon. So for the safe bet go with Walden.

Good Luck
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#281 REBUTTAL Individual responds

B & others I need your help. Was considering UOP!

AUTHOR: Tonia - (U.S.A.)

I too am looking into going back to school for a BS in Marketing or Administration. I'm loosing my mind trying to pick a school. What is the best school to go to? I work and am a single mother. Time is an issue. I also can't waste the next 2+ years of my life on a bogus degree.

What school will translate into a career?

Strayer
Capella
Walden
NCU

I need student loans and grants to pay for school. I may also want to go on and get a Masters Degree.

HEEEEELLLLPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#282 Consumer Comment

UOP student

AUTHOR: Ashley - (U.S.A.)

I was at a traditional four year college but once I had my daughter I was looking for a way to complete my degree and still be able to work. UOP was recommended to me by a family friend who is an MBA student. This is not her first MBA either she just loves education and studies in her spare time for her own fulfillment. I was leery of the university in the beginning but called the local hospitals to see what they thought of the degree and no one had any issues with it.

Throughout the enrollment process I did feel as others have commented on that I was being sold a used car. I have less than a year to go and I do intend to finish my degree. I have read several of the postings and find that there are a few intelligent individuals who do not discredit on-line learning, while others hate what they don't understand or feel they couldn't do, perhaps from a lack of self-motivation.

As with every institution you get what you put in, and the state funded traditional college I attended had some students that were lacking intelligence and could not form functioning sentences as some have claimed of UOP students. I have personally found that after the first 5 to 6 courses the students that were really lacking any work ethic had suddenly disappeared. The original post was very informative and I wish I knew when I originally enrolled some of the information I have seen posted but hindsight is 20/20.

I have never been one to comment on these types of posts but felt the original commentor deserved some applause for trying to help adults seeking to finish their eduation by giving constructive advise. I think that I have worked very hard to receive my grades and knowledge but I have always been one to do better learning through research rather than sitting through lectures. Unfortunately people who think only idiots are enrolled in UOP are supported by students who post ridiculous and insulting comments that are irrelevent and simply speak to the lack of their own personal knowledge or ability to read.

I am transfering to UF as soon as I am done with my bachelors to the pharmacy school and it is a doctorate program. My credits were transferrable but I do need to attend a community college to finish the required sciences but that would be expected. I wish all seeking to advance themselves good luck in what ever route works best for you and hope people continue to post helpful comments that encourage people to read the small print.
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#283 Author of original report

Feel Felt Found... Dear God

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Thats some funny ish... I remember that DCBA and Feel Felt Found crap they tried to teach. Any consumer with 1/2 a brain new what an advisor was trying to do them and didnt like it. For those who dont know what were talking about it goes back to the sales manipulation tool I talk about in earlier threads. AMOPS, RAMOPS or RAMOPSR is what they call it. (Its an acronym...) The Feel, Felt, Found crap is about overcoming consumer objections in order to move move them to the sales close or the "S" in the acronym. When a consumer would express a concern about price for example, the adivsors were trained to take the following approach. " I understand that you FEEL that the cost of the degree is a little high for your personal budget. I have FELT that way before and and many other students have as well. What I have FOUND is that there is money available to ease the burden of paying everthing yourself through federal grants and loan program..."

Its supposed to make the buyer feel warm and fuzzy while manipulating them into looking at borrowing $46,000 for their bachelor degree. If you fall for it, you get what you deserve. No one ever seems to ask, why is your tuition so much? Or why is your tuition rate designed to use the maximum money availble to a bachelor student through Stafford Loans? If the price point was really about overhead costs and profit margins, the tuition would be lower. This is also why they opened up AXIA. No freshman or sophomore students were willing to fork out the additional $4000 and $3000 out of pocket dollars for the UOP bachelor degree. Look at the cost at AXIA, you will notice that the tuition is designed to fit just under the freshman loan max of $6500 and the sophomore loan max of $7400.
I might point out that UOP is not the only online college that does this, but they are the ones that forced the hand of the other colleges to appear competitive and not devalue their degree in the eyes of the consumer by charging way less.
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#284 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Northcentral University

AUTHOR: Rob - (U.S.A.)

About a 15 months ago, I seriously looked into their PhD in Business Admin program. One of the major positives was the waiver of up to 30 of the total 81 doctoral credit hours through the completion of the UOPhx MBA (Man, I cannot get the "feel, felt, found thing out of my head!...yes, inside joke...).

The other positive was the online option for this program. Several of the UOPhx admin and faculty were attending for a PhD or DBA there and found it rigorous. (By the way, Dallas Baptist University has a small but challenging PhD research doctoral program, if anyone lives in this area, it is flexible and substantial.)

To respond about the removal of the Stafford Loan program at Northcentral, I corresponded regularly with one of the directors who had been there for five years. She said that the traditional Stafford loans were not available anymore because their programmatic format did not fit the criteria required by the Department of Education to offer these services.

In an effort to try to buffer the anxiety that these loans were no longer available, the university did a poor P.R. job with a short public paragraph on their website about the reasons for this change. For good reason, it was removed six months later.

Seems to be a pretty good school, smaller enrollment, personal attention, and pretty satisfied students overall. One of many places people can go to see students feelings about the level of instruction for schools is rate my professors. Some of it is pretty silly, but it does give students some feel for things there.

R.T.
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#285 UPDATE EX-employee responds

R.T. You Are Incorrect about Northcentral

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

NCU never had their Title IV revoked. They willingly decided to stop using it. There are stories flying around about this situation but in truth, no sanctions or penalties were issued by the DOE or Title IV to force NCU to withdraw Title IV from their program.

You are correct abuot their financial options for funding loans. If you look at their website you will see that there are 3 main lenders, all are also Title IV lenders. Since the Title IV Stafford Loan Rate is tied directly to the Federal T-Bill, the rate is right around 7% right now. For individual education loans, they are based off of prime rate which is around 8%. The only difference is that the government does not "co-sign" for the borrower and relieve risk to lender so they are willing to loan money to borrowers that would otherwise be unable to borrow. If you read the website, NCU also has a Pell Matching Program for their undergrads.

Basically, there is no difference between private loans and Federal loans outside of the qualifying process. People tend to think that because a college does not use Title IV they are somehow inferrior. That is ignorant. I wish more colleges would do this. If forces down tuition costs and keeps the burden of paying for college of tax payers. It makes colleges more accountable. When you look at the embarrassing default rate on loans at other online colleges, NCU walks on water.
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#286 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Ex-employee, recent MBA grad

AUTHOR: Rob - (U.S.A.)

Good morning,

I am a former EC at the Dallas, Tx. campus. To preface this, I was a student at Baylor University and UT Dallas for a combined three years prior to becoming a student at UOPhx. Subsequently, I was at UOPhx for a year prior to becoming an EC there, and an MBA student for 1.5 yrs after leaving.

Some of the same frustration is shared with the original poster for many of the same reasons, including (but not limited to) the tremendous pressures to perform to the ever moving and changing matrix performance standards. Sadly, the poor communication with students by the FC's and AC's was another disappointing part of the administration. I feel it is a result of inadequate training and low job experience from high turnover. Ultimately, alot of EC's who cared (myself included) became the "go to" person for everything a student needed. Here is my more moderate take on things:

Is the education at UOPhx excellent? No, not excellent, but not bad either. It is impossible to gain the depth of knowledge on a subject in six weeks, compared to a traditional setting. However, there are a couple of things to note. If you truly take in all of the reading, simulations, and examples, along with completing quality writing, you will work your tail off and learn quick analytical, problem solving, and writing skills. And, as said by others before me, you get out what you put in.

Is it regionally accredited? Yes, Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association.

There was an argument about the lack of student intelligence at UOPhx classrooms. The people who complained about the stupid people (as defined earlier in the thread) in class may have not experienced private traditional and state schools. Many "stupid" people obtain degrees from good univerities. I have three friends in the MBA program at SMU; only one has a good brain in their skull. One of two friends from an MBA at Duke University has a good solid brain. Of the many college grads I know, the degree did not necessarily make them any smarter, though they graduated with good GPA's.

What was obvious and sad to see at all the schools was students not take the responsibility to dig for written details on the rules at universities or the Title IV funding criteria. Were they victims of malice by a greedy company such as UOPhx? Maybe so. Were they victims of their own lack of initiative or research (ignorance)? Probably some of that too.

Here is the deal. There are other online options now than UOPhx. Some traditional schools have online programs. Students just need to take the necessary time to learn about the commitment requirements of each. UOPhx was a learning style and time frame that worked well for me. I like a fast-paced, intense program. I also know that UOPhx has a pretty good reputation in the North Texas area. Folks at TI, Raytheon, Diamler-Chrysler, Countrywide, etc. recognize the degree, pay tuition reimbursement, and promote people who graduate.

Last note, Northcentral University, (I believe you are referring to the one in Arizona) has NCA regional accreditation and a semi-happy group of student (per some of the forums on the web), however they had lost their Title IV funding status awhile back. You'll need acceptable personal credit to get private loans, or otherwise need to use their pay as you go plan.

Best wishes,

R.T.
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#287 Author of original report

To Stefin

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

I had not heard of SMWW until you pointed it out. I was surprised to see that they actually have an articulation agreement with Northcentral University for the MBA or PhD/DBA Sports management programs. NCU is a pretty good online college. If you plan on completing a masters degree then this might be a bad move depending on the college you want to go to after the fact.

HOWEVER, I would caution you on looking at SMWW accreditation. It does not offer its accreditation info on the website which probably means they are nationally accredited by DTECH or some other body. This isn't necessarily bad, but you will be limited in your ability to use this/these degree/credits to transfer into other regionally accredited colleges or apply for some masters level degrees. It looks like they have an articulation agreement with NCU which means you have to take specific classes at SMWW to qualify for the masters programs at the regionally accredited NCU.

Your call, just make sure you look beyond the next step to where this degree will take you and the options you will have for continuing your education after you finish.

Later
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#288 Author of original report

To Robert

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

My counter argument here may actually support some of what you say. However, it still backs my original points with regards to overall program quality, candidate screening and dollar value.

First, your point regarding the BSN program has some validity. It does have higher academic quality and higher success completion rates. While this is true, the reasons why such things are true go to support my original point. First, the BSN program is a COMPLETION program for registered nurses. This means that most have completed at least an LPN program with at least some academic standard if they are licensed in their state. What this means is that the candidates are already pre-screened based off their professional license and therefore this fact lends itself to result in higher quality applicants coming into the BSN program. This cannot be said for the rest of the bachelor/ AA programs which make up the rest of the degree programs at UOP. In addition, the UOP program is a CCNE accredited program which means it is required to follow a few rules and regulations other programs do not. For example, I believe that CCNE will not accept a D grade in any course from a student. If a D is received they must retake the course. The other catch is that they cannot re-use Title IV funding to pay for a retake after a D grade. The loophole is that the student can retake the class and use Title IV if they fail the class. So what you see at UOP and many other programs is a grade scale of A, B, C, F.

Your point is taken that the BSN program retains a higher quality, but that is only because the applicants and students are already held to a standard by their profession and licensure, the inverse academic curve seen in the vast majority of the other UOP programs is not there. In addition, even if the BSN program retains quality, that quality is still not justified by the $17,000 price tag. There are other less expensive programs out there that are on par or better than UOP's

You are also right that the GRE and GMAT may not be the best tool to use for candidate screening in every instance. HOWEVER, this does not negate their usefulness nor does it eliminate the need for some type of screening process for candidates entering a program. Most legitimate online colleges (Walden, NCU, Capella) not totally focused making money (UOP, AXIA, AIU, Kaplan) use an essay and minimum GPA requirement to screen applicants. And wouldn't you know it, their success rates are higher, their drop rates are lower, and their default rates are lower than those colleges that do not use screening. What this means to serious students at UOP is that they have to allow (time) to filter the riff raff out. Although they are paying $1500 for a class, the learning team environment and OE structure of UOP means that the lazy or stupid students sabotage the entire class and draw down the overall value of the learning experience and therefore the entire degree. There is a reason that UOP is known as a diploma mill and the drop rate in the first 3 classes is higher at UOP than any other Title IV college.

As for your statement about all regional accrediting bodies and therefore regionally accredited colleges being the same, well, you're simply wrong.

First, many of the HLC entities outside of the NCA take issue with the total number of online colleges accredited by the NCA. It is mostly political because colleges under other accrediting bodies outside the NCA are losing students and being basically forced to accept credits and degree programs from all NCA schools, online or not. With that being said and to prove my point to you, contact ASU and tell them you are a bachelor student in a general ed program at UOP Online and ask them if they will take the credits.

As for this statement, All counselors, in any university, especially in a private university need to meet a quota of enrollments per year. Sorry, you are wrong. Only the boiler room colleges that base reporting to shareholders strictly on enrollment growth do it this way. Believe it or not, but privately held colleges and academically sound publicly trades colleges do not have this as a problem. Walden does not base reporting to shareholders strictly on enrollment growth. They pay stock dividends and attract a different type of long term investor. This provides room to avoid boiler room tactics seen at UOP and Kaplan. NCU is privately held so there is no shareholder reporting and therefore no quotas for advisors. Your point there is a straw man argument. other online colleges do it does not make it okay. In fact, the enrollment tactics that UOP uses are in direct violation of Title IV Safe Harbor rules as I outline earlier in this thread.

I can appreciate your passion for defending the college you represent. I think you might want to examine the entirety of UOP. While the BSN and MSN might retain valid quality, it is not nearly enough to compensate or overshadow the negative aspects and impact UOP has on the entire educational industry and the social system as a whole.
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#289 Consumer Comment

Question about a different online program

AUTHOR: Stefin - (U.S.A.)

Blue pill of course...just kidding I like to stay up late.

Anyway I have a question for you or anybody that knows anything about a degree from sports management worldwide. The web address is smww.com. I'm not trying to become a agent or scout but I would like to know if the sports business management degree would benefit me as far as a degree and its qualification in the 'real world'. I'm looking more to get into sports marketing or something of that nature.

Obvisouly it's not as qualified as a business degree from a traditional school but I am just curious if the degree is worth my while. If you can give me any info on this it would be appreciated.

UOP SUCKS!
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#290 Consumer Comment

University of Phoenix

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

As an instructor I must say that the UOP nursing BSN and MSN programs are very competitive with other well known universities. Their Bachelor of Nursing program is better than some other colleges that I have taught in. I hear people in this forum slander and speak about the university in a very derogatory way.

For starters, The GRE, GMAT are not necessary for graduate study. There has been ton's of research done on the pro's and con's of these tests. A person may have a very low score on the GRE yet be an excellent student. The study groups are what the students make them to be. The syllabus is very detailed and the instructors take the proactive approach of facilitating. This is more conductive to the adult learner.

We deal with a population of non-traditional students,which are the older adult. Any University or College has to have regional accreditation in order to confer degrees. Then they need to be accredited by other agencies such as the National League of Nursing or the CCNE fro the nursing program. This accreditation is not easy to obtain.

To the people that say that their degree is a joke and not accepted by their employer id very difficult to believe. It is an accredited university and if Harvard, and any state and private university accepts their degrees and credits I don't see why people are knocking down this institution.

Many people see UOP as an easy way of getting a degree, but you have to work for that piece of paper just as hard as another university. All counselors, in any university, especially in a private university need to meet a quota of enrollments per year. In some universities the counselors and advisors are the professors themselves.
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#291 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I feel like Neo...

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Red pill or Blue? Glad I could help you wake and see the farce called UOP.

As for Cardinals Stadium, I see two problems.

1. University of Phoenix Arizona Cardinals Stadium sounds funny...

2. The Phoenix is a bird that rises from its own ashes, the Cardinals are birds that play with their heads up their own ashes... ur, I mean, anus's... How do you pluralize anus? Is it Anai? like syllabus and syllabi? As in, "after getting screwed by UOP many people experience sore anai..."

HA!
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#292 Consumer Comment

You saved me B!

AUTHOR: Stefin - (U.S.A.)

WOW! First off gotta thank B for this thread. If there is anyone out there who still thinks UoP is legit, your plain crazy! This school is an absolute scam in everyway.

I just recently moved states and almost went on with the enrollment process until discovering this facinating website. I have my AA and I'm looking to finish up with a bachlor's in business marketing.

I inquired about UoP via e-mail since I kept on receiving their ads. I was contacted bright and early the following day a by a representative who asked me a few brief questions then directed me to a live enrollment advisor who convienetly worked at the closest campus to my home. Yeah he did a good sale to lure me in the next day for a 'meeting'. Without any waste of time he had me on the computer filling out info for financial aid.

After touring the campus briefly and looking in some classrooms I thought what the heck i'll give it a shot. Later that day (yesterday) I was having some tech issues with FAFSA and FAW so I called my EA only to get pitched some more bs about the program. Still unaware of the whole scandel I was doing an online search about UoP and found this website. I have not yet told my EA that i am not going to attend but I sure can't wait too!

Just a prediction...The Cardinal football stadium will not hold that untrustworthy school's name on their facility for long.
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#293 Consumer Comment

You saved me B!

AUTHOR: Stefin - (U.S.A.)

WOW! First off gotta thank B for this thread. If there is anyone out there who still thinks UoP is legit, your plain crazy! This school is an absolute scam in everyway.

I just recently moved states and almost went on with the enrollment process until discovering this facinating website. I have my AA and I'm looking to finish up with a bachlor's in business marketing.

I inquired about UoP via e-mail since I kept on receiving their ads. I was contacted bright and early the following day a by a representative who asked me a few brief questions then directed me to a live enrollment advisor who convienetly worked at the closest campus to my home. Yeah he did a good sale to lure me in the next day for a 'meeting'. Without any waste of time he had me on the computer filling out info for financial aid.

After touring the campus briefly and looking in some classrooms I thought what the heck i'll give it a shot. Later that day (yesterday) I was having some tech issues with FAFSA and FAW so I called my EA only to get pitched some more bs about the program. Still unaware of the whole scandel I was doing an online search about UoP and found this website. I have not yet told my EA that i am not going to attend but I sure can't wait too!

Just a prediction...The Cardinal football stadium will not hold that untrustworthy school's name on their facility for long.
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#294 UPDATE EX-employee responds

This is Just Funny Because it is Completely True

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

I know some of you UOP EA's of the LDS persuasion will be mad, but you're only mad because it's true.

Dawn Gilbertson
The Arizona Republic
Sept. 28, 2006 12:00 AM

The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has sued the University of Phoenix, alleging religious discrimination against non-Mormon enrollment counselors.

The federal lawsuit, announced a day after the country's largest private university signed on as the naming sponsor of Cardinals Stadium, says the company treated employees who were not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints less favorably when it came to sharing recruiting leads on new students, tuition waivers and reprimands.

The school, owned by publicly traded Apollo Group Inc., has 4,400 enrollment counselors, including 2,600 in Phoenix. advertisement

"We have found a pattern of practice at this very large company of preferring LDS workers over non-LDS workers," said Mary Jo O'Neill, regional attorney for the watchdog agency. It filed the lawsuit Monday in U.S. District Court in Phoenix.

Apollo spokesman Joe Cockrell said the company hasn't seen the lawsuit, but he emphasized in a statement that the 15,000-employee company has "always been guided by equal opportunity and respect for others."

"We maintain a strict anti-discrimination and anti-harassment policy and take a zero-tolerance stance on these issues," the statement said.

The University of Phoenix and Apollo have been dogged by murmurs of Mormon influence for years. Apollo's longtime president and chief executive officer, Todd Nelson, was active in the church. He left the company unexpectedly in January. New president Brian Mueller is not Mormon, nor is Apollo founder and Chairman John Sperling.

O'Neill said the UOP case reflects a broader trend the agency is seeing of "intolerance in the workplace for people of other religions."

Last year, the agency settled a case alleging discrimination against non-Mormon employees at Desert Schools Federal Credit Union and another alleging discrimination against a Mormon supervisor at the Fairmont Scottsdale Princess. Overall, it currently has several religious-discrimination lawsuits in litigation, O'Neill said.

"It's not OK for employers to prefer a group of people because of their religion or to discriminate or adversely impact them in any way in their job because they don't belong to a certain religion," she said. "That's what you have in this case."

Katherine Kruse, an EEOC trial attorney in Phoenix, said the agency's investigation revealed "LDS favoritism in both initial assessment of leads and redistribution of leads."

The university recruits students through Internet advertising and other sources, and those leads are funneled to enrollment counselors working at call centers and campuses.

Former enrollment counselor Bob Lein, who filed a complaint with the EEOC in 2003 and is named in the lawsuit, said Mormon managers on his team at the University of Phoenix Online gave the best leads or extra leads and student registrations to "their Mormon friends on the team."

"They would get more enrollments, they'd get good reviews and some of them got promoted out of it," he said. "They took care of them."

Lein said his enrollment numbers fell, so he was reprimanded and fired two years ago. The EEOC lawsuit also says he was terminated in retaliation for complaining about discrimination.

One of the former workers named in the lawsuit was initially denied tuition waivers, which the company offers as a job perk.

The lawsuit seeks relief on behalf of Lein, three other named individuals and an undetermined number of other employees and former employees.

The EEOC is seeking back pay, damages for emotional distress and punitive damages. No court date has been set
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#295 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I Have to Disagree Here

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Regardless of the Cardnial Stadium naming and the billion dollar asset cushion Apollo retains, you are overlooking one very important factor. UOP, like all large businesses in the US operate with both long term and short term debt. Although their total annual profit is good, their net margins are only decent. When you look at their good debt, bad debt, long term debt and short term debt, and net profit margins it may seem like they are untouchable. The problem that you are overlooking is the main source of their income. Title IV. They use 1.7 billion in Title IV funding annually. When you look at their gross revenue, operating expendatures, debt payments, and the net income, without that 1.7 Billion, the doors at UOP close. The DOE does not care who violates the rules outlining Title IV, they have thousands of other schools to look after and they will make no exception for UOP. UOP knows this, they are nervous about it too. Why else would their Director of PR take time to argue with the lawyers about the suit in a public blog forum. Like I said before, if the lawyers do their job, if the court looks at the real evidence, and if UOP hasnt bought someone off already, they will lose this case, then they will lose Title IV. When they lose Title IV, they close.
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#296 Consumer Comment

UoP Not Going Anywhere

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

Thank you B, for your candid and honest responses to everything throughout this thread. I am not about to fight you on your comments because it definitely might be true. The only thing is that I would not get my hopes up that this institution is going anywhere. They have enough money to deal with any Class Action lawsuit, and they just paid to have the Arizona Cardinals stadium named after the school. That shows to me that they are not scared of any sort of lawsuit at all.

I am a student of the school and am actually very excited about it, and whether the recruiting of the school is inappropriate or not, let's be honest, it is not leaving. As a student I am very disappointed in the school for having those practices, but the job I have today is excited about my going to this school. They will accept this degree with pleasure the further I want to move up in the company and I travel for work so I cannot go to a classroom style school. So this is perfect for my situation. I do not have a problem going to a school that might have bad business practices as long as I get my degree. So far the degree program for me has been nothing less then exceptional and thought provoking. I have enjoyed every class.

Thank you again B for your strong comments and caring for people. This is definitely an important subject that people must know about and must be stopped. I just do not think that students or faculty should be worried about this school getting shut down anytime soon.

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#297 Consumer Comment

Thank you B

AUTHOR: A - (U.S.A.)

B,

Thank you for your candid response. Here is the grit of my education so far: I completed an Associates Degree at a non-regional accredited school. It was nationally accredited. It was worth my money and time but I had wished that I did my research beforehand.

I went to UOP because they accepted the majority of general coursework at that college that ASU or U of A would not accept. I did not want to do it over again. I am now just a few classes to finishing my Bachelor degree. I want to salvage my educational career because I have dreams. I probably will just finish my bachelor degree there and transition to a traditional college that promotes a more quality education for future course work. I will pay the price and do what I have to do to be accepted at a traditional college. This is what I am thinking will be part of the sacrifice I will have to pay. But B, you were an Enrollment Counselor before and could possibly shed light on this a little more.

Consumers, be aware. B is telling you nothing shy from the truth at all. Everything he states in here is the truth about the practices that UOP did not just allow but they proliferated and promoted these practices. The only thing that stopped them in their tracks was the DOE. Now they are being sued for these practices. We are all probably hard-working citizens who do our best to contribute to our society and pay our taxes. How many organizations with shady business practices is it going to take before we take a stand against it?
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#298 Author of original report

A- It depends on your program level

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

A,

I cannot tell you for sure because I do not know what level of coursework you are taking. If you are a bachelor student then many colleges will accept your general education coursework up to 60 credit hours. However, there seems to be some bias against UOP credits at ASU and U of A. With that being said, there is also some bias abuot credit transfer between ASU and U of A. The only problem you might run into is upper division credit transfer. You would have to transfer upper division courses based off of waiver applications into the same major at another college. If some of your credits are upper division, you may lose them.

If you are a graduate student, the chances of you transferring 50% of you credits into a ground campus for a masters are limited. Most campuses only let a maximum of 6 credits transfer.

That is about all I can tell you.

good luck
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#299 Consumer Suggestion

Need Help

AUTHOR: A - (U.S.A.)

B,

I need your help. By the way, I respect what you are doing and can validate all of your claims. I just need your help.

I want to get out of UOP now and transfer to another college, a traditional college. Problem is that I completed at least half of my classes at UOP. Can I still transfer and will they accept some of the credits?

Thanks!
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#300 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Your quest is almost over B

AUTHOR: Roger - (U.S.A.)

Hey B- R here who used to work with you under the new, young, lady manager M

You have done a great thing here. I hope the higher ups who scr--ed you repeatedly over the years are following this, and daily regret their decisions. I still remember the good work you prepared and presented to help UOP, and how they took it and twisted it to their own ends giving you no credit. This is sweet justice.

Many are following your work. Keep it up to the deserved end!
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#301 Author of original report

The Laws UOP Breaks:

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Whats up Frank. Yeah, I had to plagiarize the articles because the last few times I have included hyperlinks ROR.com has omitted them. This is HUGE and UOP is in DEEP ISH and they know it. In case anyone wanted to argue, I thought I would take the time to explain what rules UOP breaks in their compensation plan. This information is taken directly from the Student Financial Aid Handbook on the IFAP.ed.gov website. I would include the direct link, but it would be omitted by ROR.

There are some basic rules outlined in the FA Handbook designed to keep colleges from compensating recruitment employees for enrolling unqualified students. As UOP uses 1.7B a year in Title IV funding, they might want to try and comply with these rules.

The first rule:
Adjustments to employee compensation
34 CFR 668.14(b)(22)(ii)(A)
This safe harbor strikes a balance between a school's need to base its employees' salaries or wages on merit, and the Department's responsibility to ensure that such adjustments do not violate the statutory prohibition against the payment of commissions, bonuses, and other incentive payments. Under this safe harbor, a school may make up to two adjustments (upward or downward) to a covered employee's annual salary or fixed hourly wage rate within any 12-month period without the adjustment being considered an incentive payment, provided that no adjustment is based solely on the number of students recruited, admitted, enrolled, or awarded financial aid. One cost-of-living increase that is paid to all or substantially all of the school's full-time employees will not be considered an adjustment under this safe harbor. In addition, with regard to overtime, if the basic compensation of an employee is not an incentive payment, neither is overtime pay required under the Federal Labor Standards Act.

What this essentially says is that UOP has the right to adjust compensation up or down without the adjustment being considered incentive payment provided that the adjustment is not based solely on the number of students recruited, admitted, enrolled or awarded financial aid. This is where UOP enforces their matrix. The term based solely on the number of students recruited is exactly how they get away with their smoke and mirrors matrix. Talk time, outbound/inbound calls, etc are used to make it seem that a review is based on multiple criteria not based solely on enrollments over a 6 month period. However, this method does not stand as valid when it is tied into the rules on paying advisors on ANY enrollments for a revuew. This means that any 6 month review conducted by UOP that considers ANY enrollments in the equation, must still comply with the following rule:

Compensation based upon program completion
34 CFR 668.14(b)(22)(ii)(E)
This safe harbor recognizes that a major reason for the incentive compensation prohibition is to prevent schools from enrolling unqualified students. Completing a program of education or, in the case of students enrolled in a program longer than one academic year, completing the first academic year of that program, is a reliable indicator that the students were qualified to enroll in the program. Therefore, compensation that is based upon students successfully completing their educational programs, or one academic year of their educational programs, whichever is shorter, does not violate the incentive compensation prohibition. Successful completion of an academic year means that the student has earned at least 24 semester or trimester credit hours or 36 quarter credit hours, or has successfully completed at least 900 clock hours of instruction at the school. (Time may not be substituted for credits earned.) In addition, the 30 weeks of instructional time element of the definition of an academic year does not apply to this safe harbor. Therefore, this safe harbor applies when a student earns, for example, 24 semester credits, no matter how short or long a time that takes.

This rule shows that UOP can only consider compensation increases or decreases for enrollments after the recruited students have completed 24 credit hours. There is no way that any student will complete 24 credit hours at UOP or AXIA in a 6 month period. Therefore, if any evaluation includes measurement of any enrollment prior to that student completing 24 credit hours, and any employee compensation is adjusted up or down, University of Phoenix is in direct violation of Title IV compensation rules and regulations.

This is why they are in trouble. This is why if the lawyers and the court do their job, and UOP is not allowed to buy their way out of this, it will be the end of UOP. The day Title IV is gone at UOP is the same day their doors shut.

I really don't think I told you so captures this moment for me.
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#302 Consumer Comment

I was having a bad day....

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

...Apollo stock (AmwayU) had crept back up to 51 (still having tanked from 100 two years back).

And then this bombshell hit. WOW! AmwayU is now back to 47 with no bottom in sight. Amazing, as the NASDAQ (where AmwayU is listed)has climbed over 10% during the past month. It's tough for a stock to head South while the listing market is headed North. But, AmwayU found a way to "achieve" a 20% Southbound delta.

Too, I had to verify B's quotes...he took 'em verbatim off the nation's newswires...shameful plagarism, pal...how dare you be so accurate!

I suggest all AmwayU chumps jump ship soonest. You're Diploma's will soon be availible for unrolling from toilet paper spools, nationwide.

Here's the Topper, verbatim, from the LA Times, regarding former enrollment counselors, Mary Hendow and Julie Albertson's allegations:

(quote)The two women also said the company maintained two separate employment files for its enrollment counselors--one real and one fake--in an effort to deceive the US Department of Education about its practices.(unquote)

For B: you now have corroboration from two totally unrelated whistleblowers. I suggest you contact their attorneys soonest. Once this gets before a jury, with possilble treble damages(4.5 BILLION) it'll be all over but the shoutin'.

Thank you, B, for the guts you've shown. You were ripped, hard, and took it with aplomb--as you knew the truth all along...way before I or anyone else one the outside.

Amway U can still make things right...but I don't see how.
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#303 UPDATE EX-employee responds

U. of Phoenix Loses in U.S. Court

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

The University of Phoenix must defend itself against charges that it violated federal law by paying its recruiters based on how many students they enrolled, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled Tuesday. The federal appeals panel's unanimous decision, which overturned a lower court's ruling in Phoenix's favor, had been eagerly awaited because of the for-profit university's high profile as one of the country's largest and because of the mammoth size of the malfeasance alleged ? billions of dollars could be at stake.

But the case is also important because it is the latest in a string of decisions in which federal courts have gradually expanded the grounds under which colleges can be sued under the federal False Claims Act, much to the consternation of some college and university lawyers and legal experts. In siding with the former admissions officials who sued Phoenix on the government's behalf, the Ninth Circuit panel leaned heavily on one of those earlier decisions, involving Oakland City University.

At issue in the Phoenix case is a provision in the Higher Education Act that prohibits colleges from offering bonuses or other incentive pay to admissions officers or recruiters based on specific enrollment goals, to discourage them from giving officials extra incentive to bring in any potential student, regardless of academic ability. Two former enrollment counselors at Phoenix, Mary Hendow and Julie Albertson, charge that the for-profit university paid cash bonuses and other gifts to them and to other recruiters based strictly on how many students they enrolled ? charges Phoenix has denied.

In 2003, Hendow and Albertson filed what is known as a qui tam lawsuit, which is filed under the federal False Claims Act by an individual who believes he or she has identified fraud committed against the federal government, and who sues hoping to be joined by the U.S. Justice Department. (The plaintiff then shares in any financial penalties, which can include trebled damages.) The women charged that the allegedly fraudulent behavior had put more than $1.5 billion in federal funds at risk, which set the value of a potential verdict in the case at several times that. The federal government declined to join the lawsuit as a third party, but the Justice Department did file a friend of the court brief in 2005 encouraging the court to rule against Phoenix.

A federal district court dismissed the women's lawsuit in May 2004, concluding that they had not put forward a valid theory for how Phoenix had defrauded the government under the False Claims Act.

But in its decision Tuesday, a three judge panel of Ninth Circuit appeals court concluded differently. Reinforcing and even expanding on last October's decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit in United States of America ex. rel. Jeffrey E. Main v. Oakland City University, the Ninth Circuit judges declared that the two former admissions officers (known in False Claims Act parlance as the ?relators") had indeed offered two legitimate theories (known as ?false certification? and ?promissory fraud") for how the university had defrauded the government.
Without ruling on whether the women had actually proven their claims ? impossible without a trial on the facts of the case ? the court concluded that they had met the four requirements of filing a legitimate claim under the federal fraud law: (1) alleging that a defendant had made false statement or engaged in fraudulent conduct; (2) that the action had been taken deliberately; (3) that the act or statement played a direct role in money flowing out of government coffers; and (4) that the government did indeed pay out or forfeit money as a result. At its core, the Ninth Circuit ruled that the university had ? by participating in a several-step process to accept federal financial aid ? committed to abiding by a wide range of rules and requirements, including the prohibition on incentive compensation.

On multiple fronts, the court rejected arguments made by lawyers for Phoenix. To the suggestion ? which other college officials have echoed in fighting False Claims Act cases ? that ?the incentive compensation ban is nothing more than one of hundreds of boilerplate requirements with which it promises compliance,? as the appeals panel phrased it, the court wrote: ?This may be true, but fraud is fraud, no matter how 'small.'
?The university is worried that our holding today opens it up to greater liability for innocent regulatory violations, but that is not the case ? as we held above, innocent or unintentional violations do not lead to False Claims Act liability,? Judge Cynthia Holcomb Hall wrote for the court. ?But that is no reason to innoculate [sic] institutions of higher education from liability when they knowingly violate a regulatory condition, with the intent to deceive, as is alleged here.?

With that statement, the court seemed to clearly reject the arguments made by college officials that the federal courts' decisions in this line of cases are making colleges significantly more vulnerable to False Claims Act challenges ? even if they have violated federal law by simple mistake.

And Phoenix's assertion that the ban on incentive compensation is a condition on participating in the federal student aid programs, but not a condition on receiving payment from the government, ?is a distinction without a difference,? the court said. ?In the context of Title IV and the Higher Education Act, if we held that conditions of participation were not conditions of payment, there would be no conditions of payment at all ? and thus, an educational institution could flout the law at will.?

The Ninth Circuit's decision not to dismiss the lawsuit against Phoenix would send the case back to the lower federal court for a trial on the merits. But several other possibilities seem likelier at this point. The university could ask the entire U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit to review the decision of the three judge panel.

Or Phoenix's lawyers could appeal the Ninth Circuit's decision to the U.S. Supreme Court, on the hope that the nation's highest court decides to hear the case because it concludes that federal appeals courts have split on the issues in the case. But the Supreme Court declined in April to consider the Oakland City case, letting the Seventh Circuit's decision stand, which would appear to make it unlikely to hear the Phoenix case.


Timothy J. Hatch, a Los Angeles lawyer who represented Phoenix in this case, said that he and the university ?obviously disagree? with the court's conclusions but had not yet decided how to respond to the ruling. Terri Bishop, chief communications officer for the Apollo Group, which owns the University of Phoenix, added in a statement that the decision ?greatly expands the scope of False Claims Act liability beyond what Congress had intended or even what other courts have recognized.? The company is ?carefully reviewing the opinion in order to determine our next steps,? she said.

The two California lawyers who represented the relators in the case, Nancy G. Krop and J. Daniel Bartley, were practically giddy on the telephone late Tuesday afternoon, and said they were eager to get the case before a jury. ?The evidence is all sitting there waiting for a courtroom, and once we get a courtroom,? Krop said, Phoenix ?is in big trouble.?
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#304 Consumer Comment

Selling degrees to people that need degrees

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

That about says it all. Might as well be selling crack to people that need crack. Love the AmwayU sales style: it's all about the legal tender. Heck, at least the guy is honest. He makes no bones or judgements about AmwayU's quality of education: just make your stroke. Ya' gotta' love that.

With regards the finishing/completing AmwayU, these three guys that went the distance and finished up: Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite and Mohommned Attu. Yep, they all saw their delusions through to the end. Which is what every AmwayU "grad" will have to deal with: they got suckered right to completion.

Moreover, it's on record; there's no denying one attended Amway U; kinda like having to tell the cops ya' fell for the Nigerian lottery scams.
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#305 Consumer Suggestion

An Investigator's point of view.

AUTHOR: James - (U.S.A.)

As a former Private Investigator, this discussion thread is an investigators dream!

I became suspicious of UOP after my first few classes but kept "baaaa-ing" my way through them because I wanted to finally get my degree in Business & Marketing. I was forewarned by other students about MATH 208/209 and it's utterly ridiculous syllabus, but ignored their advice. After the third week in 209 I could no longer ignore the worthlessness of these programs and finally dropped the class, which I am glad I did because UOP has lied to me every time I have tried to resolve my complaints with them - exposing who they truly are.

But even more revealing is that my daughter graduated this July with a degree, and it has actually been a hinderence in her job search! She even had one prospective employer laugh at her when she proudly stated that she had a degree from UOP. His response was: "Who doesn't have a degree from them." He then told her that they would rather hire someone with no experience and then train them themselves than deal with the "untraining" that they have had to do with other UOP graduates.

Here is some advice from a lowly investigator. Go to the "Search" page on this website and type in ANY other university and see what pops up. Why do universities such as U of U and BYU only have 1 or 2 complaints while the University of Phoenix has hundreds of complaints. Try as you want to attack "B", according to what I can see he is only one of hundreds who have an issue with UOP, including me. I wish I could give you the meaning of what those statistics mean, but I only have UOP training in statistics so I'm afraid my expertise is lacking. And if my spelling or grammar is lacking, well... you get the picture.
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#306 UPDATE Employee

How's 6-3 working out, B?

AUTHOR: Another B - (U.S.A.)

I'll be happy to corroborate the claims that B has made. I can vouch for his claims that he was one of the top Enrollment Advisors, and was easily in the top 10% pay bracket at that position. I learned a great deal about how to effectively recruit students from him. I don't believe he's ever disputed the fact that he was disgruntled. If anything, he's provided ample reasons to have been. I am not, however, in a position to confirm or deny the business practices alluded to by B.

I have never been motivated enough either way to look into it all that deeply. While I understand B's feelings, and was there to witness the events that resulted in his feelings, I do not share them. While I have no doubt that there are individuals within the organization that put their pay-check above the best interest of the consumer, and even if this is the norm (which I dot believe), I sleep well at night. I make no bones about what I am selling, or that I am selling it. I am selling a degree for people who need a degree. If they feel that what I offer best fills that need, then I encourage them to enroll.

I still believe a statement that I heard B make on numerous occasions. To paraphrase, it went something like this: "This is only a good investment if you finish." I still feel that way. It may not be the best investment for someone, but that really isn't my decision to make.
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#307 UPDATE Employee

Tech Support

AUTHOR: Matthias - (U.S.A.)

Why aint there no love for Tech Support, man???
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#308 Consumer Suggestion

University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona

AUTHOR: Marie - (U.S.A.)

B, as you've probably encountered, there are many accrediting agencies with legitimate sounding names and acronyms. Let me clarify.

Strayer did not have its' regional accreditation, had lots of other legitimate sounding designations but not the one that mattered if a person was planning to continue their education at a traditonal, established institution.

That was the problem. The traditional institutions did not recognize the accreditation that Strayer had credits obtained at Strayer were not transferable and degrees not recognzed.

Unfortunately for me, that realization did not happen until thousands of dollars were spent obtaining a degree that was not recognized by traditional educational institutions and employers did not recognize the training the so-called degree provided.

The bottom line is that money is the motivation for for-profit schools. While traditional colleges and universities also assess the bottom line, they don't lead with that intent. Shareholders are not their first priority. For-profit colleges do and are very effective in targeting certain individuals to realize their for-profit goals. A solid education is the main lead for traditional institutions.

I say stay with the traditional colleges and universities because in the long-run, a student will do better by it. It's heart-breaking to know that you've invested a lot of hard earned money, time and effort in what appears to be an education program, only to realize that, in the "real world", the degree is not recognized.

Not trying to stigmatize all for-profts, but you need to understand what you're dealing with. My point is to save yourself some grief, look beyond the for-profits. The for-profits are getting to the point where their brand image is increasingly becoming tarnished and their programs and education are becoming suspect. Having been there, done that, I wouldn't recommend it.

Marie
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#309 Author of original report

For Marie,

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Marie,

Although you support some of my points in this thread, I have to discourage the use of blanket statements. Although UOP does have an overall negative impact on the industry as a whole, UOP is not the entire industry. Just because UOP sucks something terrible, does not mean every other college sucks too. Only those colleges like UOP, AIU and perhaps Strayer that establish a "business" that sells education model can be included in the group. I am not ready to write-off the industry as a whole yet because I do see hope for it and I feel that it has and will continue to play an important role in educating our society.

For example, the issue you ran into was because Strayer was not accredited. This would have happened if you had gone to any non-accredited institution either online or ground, for profit or not. You also point out that there are many traditional institutions offering online courses that are not for profit. That is only partially true. Every college is for profit in some way or shape. The issue becomes evident when no checks and balances system is in place at a given college. I know first hand that administrators at traditional ground campuses are looking for new ways to increasing enrollments (revenue) but they must co-exist with academics administrators which have separate but equal power and limit the ways the administration goes about doing this. Many online, for profit colleges are adopting this same method. The problem with UOP is that academics has absolutely no influence over the decisions their President Brian Muller makes. He only cares if they stay accredited. They do just enough to comply but are never concerned with the academic affects on the student.

A couple of examples of for-profit colleges that do it right are Northcentral University and Walden. They operate like traditional ground campuses with regards to the influence their academics administrators have over their business administrators. This is reflected in price point, service, and academic quality.

With regards to the MBA programs, you are correct. Many fortune 500 employers would like a person to have an MBA from an HLC and AACSB accredited institution. This presents a dilemma for them because the vast majority of these companies pay for their employees to attend online college that do not have AACSB accreditation. Strange phenomenon. However, AACSB is only one reputable additional accreditation for a college to obtain. The reason that online institutions tend to avoid this is because to comply, the college must require a GMAT. This would limit the profits of many online colleges. However, there are other options that an online college could pursue academically for additional reputable accreditations. For example, NCU is working on ACBSP (Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs) accreditation. It takes about 2 years to get, but is just as reputable as the AACSB but without the GMAT requirement. The reason many of the online colleges do not go for this is because it requires stringent academic review for 2 years. NCU should have theirs by mid 2007.

I understand your concerns and you have some valid points, just be careful with the blanket statements. Not every for-profit college is the same. Some of them are trying to do it right. It just makes it that much harder when the UOP's and the Strayers of the world cause situations like yours.
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#310 Consumer Suggestion

University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona"

AUTHOR: Marie - (U.S.A.)

I've read the entire threaded comments regarding UOP Online. I have a degree from Strayer College (now Strayer University), also a for-profit institution.

If I can offer any words of advice to anyone thinking of attending a for-profit institution to get a degree, stay with the non-profits. The for-profits are just that, established to make money. There are lots of traditional universities (Univ of Maryland, NYU, etc) that have online programs which address the issue of schedule flexibility.

My opinion of Strayer changed when I tried to apply to graduate school, not a for-profit one but a traditional, campus-based university. My 4-year BS degree became an embarrassment when applying to graduate schools.

I had a respectable GPA but that was never the issue. The fact that it was a degree from a for-profit implied that it was not a degree at all. It was the coursework and the lack of accreditation at the time (now, they are regionally accredited but it was a long time coming). To circumvent the thorny accreditation issues (their MBA program is not AACSB accredited), they have their own MBA program.

The degrees from these for-profit schools are not worth the paper they are printed on. I know, I have one. Employers do look for AACSB-recognized programs at the MBA level. If you're planning on working top firms in the Fortune 500 (corporations), they expect the MBA to be AACSB accredited.

While many of the for-profits have some decent instructors and courses, graduates of these schools will continue to suffer due to the image of the schools, weak admission standards, poor quality of instruction, unqualified instructors. While these may not be true, perception is reality.

The for-profits prey on people and it's not worth the hassle. Take it from somone who's been there, done that.

Marie, Maryland
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#311 Consumer Suggestion

University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona"

AUTHOR: Marie - (U.S.A.)

I've read the entire threaded comments regarding UOP Online. I have a degree from Strayer College (now Strayer University), also a for-profit institution.

If I can offer any words of advice to anyone thinking of attending a for-profit institution to get a degree, stay with the non-profits. The for-profits are just that, established to make money. There are lots of traditional universities (Univ of Maryland, NYU, etc) that have online programs which address the issue of schedule flexibility.

My opinion of Strayer changed when I tried to apply to graduate school, not a for-profit one but a traditional, campus-based university. My 4-year BS degree became an embarrassment when applying to graduate schools.

I had a respectable GPA but that was never the issue. The fact that it was a degree from a for-profit implied that it was not a degree at all. It was the coursework and the lack of accreditation at the time (now, they are regionally accredited but it was a long time coming). To circumvent the thorny accreditation issues (their MBA program is not AACSB accredited), they have their own MBA program.

The degrees from these for-profit schools are not worth the paper they are printed on. I know, I have one. Employers do look for AACSB-recognized programs at the MBA level. If you're planning on working top firms in the Fortune 500 (corporations), they expect the MBA to be AACSB accredited.

While many of the for-profits have some decent instructors and courses, graduates of these schools will continue to suffer due to the image of the schools, weak admission standards, poor quality of instruction, unqualified instructors. While these may not be true, perception is reality.

The for-profits prey on people and it's not worth the hassle. Take it from somone who's been there, done that.

Marie, Maryland
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#312 Consumer Suggestion

Done baiting, now to be constructive

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

B,

Again, I appreciate your valid attempts to keep this thread professional, for the most part. I am serious about the suggestion that you should take this energy towards Apollo Group into another realm as well. You obviously have a lot of time and energy invested in your position. Take it up a level!

Frank,

I had to have a go at you with those references becuase your character, as presented on here, comes off a bit short and harsh, though I am sure you are not like this in person. I can see tha you are very passionate about your opinion of this organization.I just hope that you have productive alternatives to offer for those who could use them.

Danny in Arkansas,

Go to Axia if you can handle the learning model and investment. If you are worried about transferring credits at some point in the future follow these steps: save a copy of your syllabus and graded paper/ project samples. I would also suggest you get a copy of course descriptions for any courses you complete. This should be followed at ANY accredited school you choose to attend.

Note, many schools reserve a "right to refuse" other school credits to protect their degrees and put their stamp of approval on your completion. THis occurs VERY often even when there are laws stating this cannot occur.

If you look to transfer, become VERY familiar with the receiving school's transfer policies and how to go about appeals at the school and possibly state level (effective at public schools).

Understand that the Axia of UOP model may not work for you. Also understand that competing organizations will be similar. You need to look at accreditation, cost, flexibility and support. Some schools are better at this than others. Due to the blocking poilicies of this site, I cannot name other schools that would be a viable alternative form the cost and accreditation perspective, I do suggest that you speak frankly to your enrollment counselor about this.

Finally-- to all who read this thread, UOP has its place in the market and the OVERALL learning model has proven viable and valuable. There are many other colleges and Universities adopting the basic learning model and extended campus structure of UOP. Many also learn from the errors that UOP has made in its history, while others have not.

The main problem that faces many consumers of UOP and distance education, especially those on this board, has to do with communication flaws. I am not making an apology for issues that consumers have encountered, but I do suggest that they shop around if there is any question. Check with sources such as college source, the CHEA, the US Department of education, etc.
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#313 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I understand your points

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Brian, I only go after idiots that come in here spewing nonsense and posting incoherent gibberish. You did not do that. I understand your points and they seem valid on a case by case basis. Isolating and looking at issues in the micro sense has a tendency to decrease impact and distract from the comprehensive picture. If a doctor was to diagnose a person's health based upon segregate contributing factors and symptoms without considering the overall body of factors, it would ultimately be an ineffective and dangerous way to operate as a doctor.

In this sense, it is necessary to take your points and look at them as a comprehensive doctrine of issue and then make a diagnosis. Lets start with your point about Mircosoft and Enron. I take two point issues with this:

1. I have said before that the disclaimer of All businesses do it so it doesn't matter if UOP is guilty is an ineffective deflection tactic and a dangerous line of thinking. 1 company or 1000 companies doing something wrong will never change the fact that something wrong is being done. Corporate accountability, and therefore ethics, in our culture have become non-existent because civic duties by the consumer populous have been shucked. Individualism has created an atmosphere where people are rarely concerned with anything that does not obviously and directly affect them. What they do not realize is that these matters which they ignore often have a wider macro impact that will inevitably affect them.
2. The negative long term socio-economic impact of UOP will affect far more than the monopolization practices of Microsoft or the fraudulent investing, accounting and reporting practices of Enron. I do not see Enron and Microsoft on the same level, I feel Enron's scenario better matches UOP considering the recent investigation launched by the SEC. Regardless, if UOP was only guilty of fraudulent stock practices then my post would not exists. Their negative impact goes far beyond the world of business and is poisoning the higher education system in America. Our ability to educate our citizens directly reflects our ability to survive and prosper as a nation. To quote Fat Mike from NOFX, The Idiots are Taking Over UOP has taken the work and sacrifice investment out of education and learning equation and replaced it with a monetary sacrifice. Unfortunately, the mess we are heading for socially is not something we can buy our way out of and can only be remedied by hard work and sacrifice. This brings me to my next point.

You make a point a UOP degree will work for you if you want it to work for you. Perhaps, but what work was required for the degree? As you quoted me, you can learn in a UOP program and you get out of it what you put into it. However, allowing a business to sell education means that academic quality takes a back seat and someone working hard for an A at UOP is discredited by the vast majority of students that breeze through for a B. You obviously take pride in your military experience. Why? Perhaps the service, work and sacrifice? What if, a company wanted to sell military experience and a person could achieve valid experience compared to yours by simply showing up online a few days a week and paying a bunch of money. What if society didn't differentiate between your military experience and theirs? Hey, they may have even worked extremely hard in their program, but is it valid? Why? Suddenly your military experience means nothing socially. Wouldn't you want there to be some standard set?

I don't care what anyone argues about this, UOP's courses are not designed based off the needs of busy adults or academics. They are based off of a business revenue cycle. Academics takes a far back seat.

Lets avoid extremely comparisons to the Ivy League. No one in here has ever put someone down for not attending a Tier 1. Also, I attended a good school for my undergrad and yes, in some of my larger classes at the lower division, the requirements and challenge was limited. However, these instances were few and far between. Even with that, I still had to pass the tests. For the most part, what is required in 5 classes at a regular academic college over 16 weeks cannot be compared to the 5 week per class structure at UOP. This does not mean that online cannot be used as a legitimate format for education, it just means that a biography, 3 writing assignments, 2 team assignments, 2 posts per day 3 days a week for 5 weeks, and 1 final paper is not conducive to learning. Other online colleges know this which is why their classes are longer and require more. UOP is not concerned because they love the revenue cycle.

UOP may have a great concept. But make no mistake, it is a business concept, not an academic one. There are too many good schools out there both online and ground that are better for the student academically and financially. The problem is that UOP has given this industry a bad name and is a pock mark on the face of society.

Regardless, when you do not compartmentalize the issues and problems with UOP and look at it with a wide angle lens, here is what you get:

An unethical business: (SEC violations, False reporting, Overtime Compensation Violations, Stockholder Fraud, False Advertising, Consumer Manipulation)
An unsound academic facility: (Violations of Title IV funding recruitment law, false reporting of freshman graduation rates, sub-par facilitator hiring practices, illegal recruiting practices, low standards of educational expectations, inverse academic curves, discrediting the value of the degree in America, perpetuating the dumbing down of America )
An unsound Title IV user: (Violations of Title IV usage, Violation of transparent Title IV consumer information, high unnecessary burden on taxpayer money because of an extremely high loan default rate per-capita)
A tyrant of an employer: (Illegal use of employee compensation for capital investments, hostile work environments, employee abuse, high dysfunctional turnover)

This list could go on and on. Bottom line is that nothing good UOP does can outweigh, outshine, overshadow or erase the bad. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just wish people would look at the evidence available to them before they form one. Perhaps I ask too much.
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#314 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I understand your points

AUTHOR: B - (U.S.A.)

Brian, I only go after idiots that come in here spewing nonsense and posting incoherent gibberish. You did not do that. I understand your points and they seem valid on a case by case basis. Isolating and looking at issues in the micro sense has a tendency to decrease impact and distract from the comprehensive picture. If a doctor was to diagnose a person's health based upon segregate contributing factors and symptoms without considering the overall body of factors, it would ultimately be an ineffective and dangerous way to operate as a doctor.

In this sense, it is necessary to take your points and look at them as a comprehensive doctrine of issue and then make a diagnosis. Lets start with your point about Mircosoft and Enron. I take two point issues with this:

1. I have said before that the disclaimer of All businesses do it so it doesn't matter if UOP is guilty is an ineffective deflection tactic and a dangerous line of thinking. 1 company or 1000 companies doing something wrong will never change the fact that something wrong is being done. Corporate accountability, and therefore ethics, in our culture have become non-existent because civic duties by the consumer populous have been shucked. Individualism has created an atmosphere where people are rarely concerned with anything that does not obviously and directly affect them. What they do not realize is that these matters which they ignore often have a wider macro impact that will inevitably affect them.