• Report: #870779

Complaint Review: Vi-Tel Wireless LLC

  • Submitted: Thu, April 19, 2012
  • Updated: Fri, April 27, 2012

  • Reported By: goldpartners — Denver Colorado USA
Vi-Tel Wireless LLC
PO Box 8555 The Woodlands, Texas United States of America

Vi-Tel Wireless LLC I cancelled my account 5 days prior to the end of my free trial and they still tried to get money from my Paypal account. The Woodlands, Texas

*Author of original report: That was sort of like an apology.

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Update from Company

*Author of original report: We're getting closer.

*Consumer Comment: More...

*Author of original report: I don't sign up for free trials for the fun of it. It's my job.

*Consumer Comment: ...

*Author of original report: What bank I was backing my debit card isn't the issue.

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: incorrect information again

*Author of original report: Let's start with your first lie.

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Incorrect information

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I get so sick of companies that offer you a free trial. Then you cancel before the end of the trial and they still try to charge you.

It has happened to me so often that I have quit keeping money in my Paypal account. Then their stupid charge gets denied... how ya like me now?

To get more info on how you can put a "buffer" between your Paypal account & your real bank account so unauthorized charges like this get denied instead of going thru and then either incurring you an overdraft or paying the money... which you then have to try to get back (good luck with that)...

Go to: http://tinyurl.com/c2h28fo

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/19/2012 10:35 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Vi-Tel-Wireless-LLC/The-Woodlands-Texas-77387/Vi-Tel-Wireless-LLC-I-cancelled-my-account-5-days-prior-to-the-end-of-my-free-trial-and-t-870779. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
5Author 2Consumer 3Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Author of original report

That was sort of like an apology.

AUTHOR: goldpartners - (USA)

That was sort of like an apology.

Yeah... you don't want too many people making false claims.

Maybe you'd better find your problem.  

If it helps... on your form I put down as my reason for cancelling was that you're "commission structure was too vague".

A simpler solution... if you're really interested in not having any more problems would be to move the cancellation process off your site.

Have people send you an email. That way they'll have a record... and they'll more easily be able to prove that they're not making "false claims".
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#2 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Update from Company

AUTHOR: Vi-Tel - (United States of America)

Thank you for your responses, and for the unbiased responses regarding both sides of the issue.  While we admit mistakes happen and problems arise, we are belivers in how you go about dealing with the issue or problem.  We learn from our mistakes and do our best to correct errors within our company and system. 

This is the first time we have had such issue after someone cancelling, which is why we were asking for specifics so we could dial in to what happend or what went wrong.  We in no way want to attempt or charge anyone for services they do not receive. 

We wanted to identify where the problem occurred.  By asking for the IP we could track where you went on the site and what you did on our system.  Which would allow us to see if you did click the cancel button and it now process, which in return would tell us that there was a glitch that neeed to be fixed there, or when you went and clicked cancel, it takes you to a page that gives you options: see below (example only) You may have quite possibly thought you cancelled and did not.  Additionally, The transaction information would help us to see if there was an actual attempt on the card and why that happened.  Lastly, we could check to see if an email was sent to you confirming your cancellation and if it did not we could trace back as to why it did not go out.

The bottom line and our stance is this:  We in no way want to allow for mistakes like this to happen regardless of how they happen.  In order for us to check systems and for problems we have to first identify certain things in order to do a thorough investigation.  Knowing you did not get actually charged many companies would consider it case closed.  We do not feel that way as the problem still is WHY this happened or what CAUSED it?  We take things like this very seriously and do not ever want to be confused or in the corss hairs of companies that do not operate on integrity. 

Also, we want to prevent people making accusation of our company and any other company prior to gathering facts.  Your words on our company and others could damage a company and their reputation.  While if it is worthy and correct then of course it should be exposed, but never prior to obtaining facts and ensuring it was a mistake vs. maliciously or careless act on the company. 

We strive hard to be an excellent company and do right by others, the last thing we or any good company needs is people making false accusations or accusations without merit. 

All companies and people make mistakes allow others to fix them prior to passing judgement. 

This will preserve the good ones and seperate the bad ones.  Once again, we apologize for the mistake and have done as much checking into as we can and we do not see any cancellation done by an outside IP address.  We are also not implying you did not cancel either just simply stating the facts from our internal checks and balances.  Which explains why we were asking for additional information.  Feel free to call our company and ask for the CEO, COO, VP, and we will be glad to report back to you our findings with the pertinent information requested so we can identify what the cause was.  If we dont hear from you verbally we will consider this matter case closed.

Change Plans
If you want to change to a different paid Plan Click Here to go to the Plans page. Select the plan to which you want to change. You will stay on your current plan until your next billing date, which is 5/16/2012. At that time you will be automatically changed. Should you change your mind, you can go to the Plans page, before 5/16/2012, and select a different Plan link. Or you can come back here and cancel the change.
Cancel Site
If you want to cancel your  site and make it inactive, Click Here. You will stay on your current plan until your next billing date, 5/16/2012. At that time your site will be made inactive. Should you change your mind you can go to the Plans page, before 5/16/2012, and click any Plan link. Or you can come back here and cancel the deactivation.
Important Note: If you cancel, when your site is made inactive on 5/16/2012, all of your contacts will be deleted. If you would like to download them before they are deleted, you must go to the Contact Manager and do so before 5/16/2012. Click Here to download all of them now.

Refund/Cancellation Policy
Plan purchases that do not meet your expectations can be refunded the plan amount less the Set Up Fee if the cancellation request is made within 24 hours of purchase.

Should you wish to cancel your membership and make your sites inactive you must cancel PRIOR to your next billing date, 5/16/2012. Cancellations must be made PRIOR to 5/16/2012 to prevent further charges. Should you fail to cancel membership PRIOR to 5/16/2012 no refunds will be issued. We are a third party vendor for the company, canceling your account with the company does NOT automatically cancel your account with MyVi-Tel; you must cancel each account separately.

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#3 Author of original report

We're getting closer.

AUTHOR: goldpartners - (USA)

How would one apologize others when one doesn't even know whether or not one did anything wrong to others? Would you apologize me if I say "You owe me $2,000 and do not return it" while you don't even know what the h**l I am talking about? I still stand on what I said -- the tone of the company replies is neutral. This is from my assumption that both you and the company are innocent (the company does not know what's going on internally and you know only from what you know -- your interaction with the company).

If they can't keep track of the cancellation form on their own site... they should request people to send a email with their "wish to cancel".

The only responsibility I see here on my part is that from now on I will pay more attention to whether or not I receieve a confirmation email... after using the cancellation form on a company's website...

and if I don't recieve one from them after cancelling on their site... I'll send them an independent email... so I have a record.

Slipperly slope. Because you have bad experience before does not guarantee you to assume that others will be the same. You should have given a benefit of the doubt, not jump the gun.

I don't think it's ever a good idea to expose your "real" bank account by using it to do business on the internet.

It's not hard to place a "buffer" between your "real" account & a Paypal debit card that you can use for your online business transactions (plus by having a Paypal debit card you can have instant access to your online earnings instantly at any ATM).

To see more about how to do this go to... http://tinyurl.com/c2h28fo 

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#4 Consumer Comment

More...

AUTHOR: MochaG - (United States of America)

I didn't hear any apologies for trying to place an unauthorized charge against my account.

How would one apologize others when one doesn't even know whether or not one did anything wrong to others? Would you apologize me if I say "You owe me $2,000 and do not return it" while you don't even know what the hell I am talking about? I still stand on what I said -- the tone of the company replies is neutral. This is from my assumption that both you and the company are innocent (the company does not know what's going on internally and you know only from what you know -- your interaction with the company).

What is there to cooperate with? They ignored my cancellation... tried to place an unauthorized charge... and then want to say I'm making it all up... asking for my cancellation notice... which they know they didn't send.

How are you so sure that they IGNORE your cancellation? I also didn't reject the idea that they did, but I do not accept your assumption as the final answer. It seems that the company gets back to you in order to look into it.

I paid with a Paypal Debit Card (a Mastercard).


Read your original report. I am talking about how you use the word "PayPal" in that post. That's the reason why the first rebuttal from the company said so. Anyway in this case, you are the one who did not provide a full disclose of the information and misled others to think that "PayPal" you used is a direct account, not a Mastercard.

If a company's policy is to ignore cancellation notices... do you really think they would send cancellation confirmations?

How about you prove it? I am asking you to deal with the company, not proving that you or they are correct. They get back to you now. Why don't you try to solve the problem with them? It takes two to tango, OK?

I fail to see what my IP address has to do with anything. Actually I'm currently using a Public Library computer... so my IP address is different everyday.

And you have reading comprehension. I didn't say that the company is right. I agree that the IP address proves nothing. However, if they keep login logs, they should be able to find your log in regardless the IP address.

Because I wasn't using my TCF debit card they was no problem to solve.

They didn't get my money... but they tried. I'm making this post to make people aware of that... and to recommend to them that maybe they don't want to use their "real" banks accounts directly on the internet.

It opens them up for unauthorized charges like what happened here. Unauthorized charges are nothing new. I remember the old Bally's Health Club would get people to sign up for pre-approved bank withdrawls and then ignore your repeated cancellations. Getting them to stop was a nightmare.  

Worse than having them get your money (and being in a position of having to try to get it back) is the possiblity of overdraft charges ($43. at my bank) as these unauthorized charges come thru when you aren't expecting it.

I once had a bank account closed because Google Adsense tried to charge my account like 10 times in the space of 48 hours when I wasn't expecting it... and got me like 10 overdrafts. I couldn't pay the $430. and lost my account.


Slipperly slope. Because you have bad experience before does not guarantee you to assume that others will be the same. You should have given a benefit of the doubt, not jump the gun.

I'm not being arrogant. I'm suggesting to people that they might want to look into how to prevent exposing their "real" bank account on the internet.

Personally... I can't. I do offline business and often the funds in my TCF bank account aren't actually mine. They're needed for materials, payroll... etc..

But... I also do extensive business on the internet... I own Marketers-Toolbox.com (internet income opportunities, advertising & marketing tools)... and part of my job is checking out new programs to see if they are something I would recommend to my customers.

Because of this... I came up with a system of using a "secondary" Paypal that is attached to my TCF account... and a "primary" Paypal account (that has a Paypal debit card) to do all of my online business. I only use the "secondary" Paypal account to transfer funds from my TCF account to my "primary" Paypal account.

I don't sign up for free trials for the fun of it. It's my job.


Good for hearing more info. Then you should be able to clarify the problem with the company. Get it straight. If they do not correspondent with you, then you are 100% correct about their sneaky business; otherwise, deal with them until things clear out in a way that everyone can see whether the problem is problematic or resolved. It is your job, right?

What do you mean "part of the problem"?!!!

The problem on your part is that you do not try to resolve the problem when they get back to you. You are EXPECTING them to apologize to you when they attempt to contact you on here. The reason is that you think you are completely right and feel entitlement for an apology. Also, when they caught your mistake (about PayPal account in your original post), you blushed off your mistake by saying it is a Mastercard. Even though it is not a major info, the info is relevant to the payment system they have. The way you response back is not professional.

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#5 Author of original report

I don't sign up for free trials for the fun of it. It's my job.

AUTHOR: goldpartners - (USA)

In my opinion, I am leaning toward the company even though the tone in their posts is not that friendly enough (could interpret as neutral more or less). Why? Because the company is trying to gather the fact and will accept their fault if they find that it is wrong. However, the author does not want to cooperate and throw his/her emotion in the replies.

I didn't hear any apologies for trying to place an unauthorized charge against my account.

What is there to cooperate with? They ignored my cancellation... tried to place an unauthorized charge... and then want to say I'm making it all up... asking for my cancellation notice... which they know they didn't send. 

Anyway first, when one said "PayPal" account, usually other people would think about a real paypal account. That's why the company was skeptical about how could the author pay using his/her paypal account. Now, the fact is out (on the #2 post) that the payment method is NOT a direct paypal account, but a MasterCard.

I paid with a Paypal Debit Card (a Mastercard).

Second, the company asks for cancellation confirmation. I could agree with the author that the cancellation system may fail to send the confirmation.

If a company's policy is to ignore cancellation notices... do you really think they would send cancellation confirmations?

However, the company asks again for the author IP address. This is a good question, but it may not really answer the question whether or not the author physically logged in to cancel the account. What if the author ISP is using dynamic IP (which is what I am using)? This may or may not be the answer.

I fail to see what my IP address has to do with anything. Actually I'm currently using a Public Library computer... so my IP address is different everyday.

Last, the company is trying to resolve the problem,

Because I wasn't using my TCF debit card they was no problem to solve.

They didn't get my money... but they tried. I'm making this post to make people aware of that... and to recommend to them that maybe they don't want to use their "real" banks accounts directly on the internet.

It opens them up for unauthorized charges like what happened here. Unauthorized charges are nothing new. I remember the old Bally's Health Club would get people to sign up for pre-approved bank withdrawls and then ignore your repeated cancellations. Getting them to stop was a nightmare.  

Worse than having them get your money (and being in a position of having to try to get it back) is the possiblity of overdraft charges ($43. at my bank) as these unauthorized charges come thru when you aren't expecting it.

I once had a bank account closed because Google Adsense tried to charge my account like 10 times in the space of 48 hours when I wasn't expecting it... and got me like 10 overdrafts. I couldn't pay the $430. and lost my account.

but the author original post demonstrates arrogant attitude -- see how I did to get out of the charge.

I'm not being arrogant. I'm suggesting to people that they might want to look into how to prevent exposing their "real" bank account on the internet.

Personally... I can't. I do offline business and often the funds in my TCF bank account aren't actually mine. They're needed for materials, payroll... etc..

But... I also do extensive business on the internet... I own Marketers-Toolbox.com (internet income opportunities, advertising & marketing tools)... and part of my job is checking out new programs to see if they are something I would recommend to my customers.

Because of this... I came up with a system of using a "secondary" Paypal that is attached to my TCF account... and a "primary" Paypal account (that has a Paypal debit card) to do all of my online business. I only use the "secondary" Paypal account to transfer funds from my TCF account to my "primary" Paypal account.

To see more about how to do this go to... http://tinyurl.com/c2h28fo

Even though a part of the problem is from the company,

What do you mean "part of the problem"?!!!

the posts also shows that the author intends, in anyway, to get free trials from anyone available because the author WILL cancel it before the trial ends.

I don't sign up for free trials for the fun of it. It's my job.


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#6 Consumer Comment

...

AUTHOR: MochaG - (United States of America)

In my opinion, I am leaning toward the company even though the tone in their posts is not that friendly enough (could interpret as neutral more or less). Why? Because the company is trying to gather the fact and will accept their fault if they find that it is wrong. However, the author does not want to cooperate and throw his/her emotion in the replies.

Anyway first, when one said "PayPal" account, usually other people would think about a real paypal account. That's why the company was skeptical about how could the author pay using his/her paypal account. Now, the fact is out (on the #2 post) that the payment method is NOT a direct paypal account, but a MasterCard.

Second, the company asks for cancellation confirmation. I could agree with the author that the cancellation system may fail to send the confirmation. However, the company asks again for the author IP address. This is a good question, but it may not really answer the question whether or not the author physically logged in to cancel the account. What if the author ISP is using dynamic IP (which is what I am using)? This may or may not be the answer.

Last, the company is trying to resolve the problem, but the author original post demonstrates arrogant attitude -- see how I did to get out of the charge. Even though a part of the problem is from the company, the posts also shows that the author intends, in anyway, to get free trials from anyone available because the author WILL cancel it before the trial ends.
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#7 Author of original report

What bank I was backing my debit card isn't the issue.

AUTHOR: goldpartners - (USA)

You are trying to make this about who was backing my debit card. It doesn't matter (except in that your attempt at an unauthorized charge was thwarted).

Luckily... I was using my Paypal debit card.

If I had been using a regular bank debit card the unauthorized payment either would have went thru or incurred an overdraft for me.

You're trying to make it about the fact that you ignored my cancellation... and didn't send me a confirmation. Isn't that what someone planning on charging you anyway would do?

I cancelled my account (I think it was on the 10th or the 11th). I'm done. If you continue to try to bill me I will report you to Paypal (good luck with your internet business after that).
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#8 REBUTTAL Owner of company

incorrect information again

AUTHOR: Vi-Tel - (United States of America)

We do not accept Pay pal is a form of payment.  We do accept Visa and Mastercard.  You were using a Visa or MasterCard that is tied to your Pay Pal account which is very different that paying with Pay Pal.  You can't pay us with Pay Pal PERIOD.  However, as long as it is a Visa or MC we dont discriminate with that bank backs the card or where you funds come from. 

Using a Pay Pal debit card is no different than using a brick and mortar debit card. Using a debit card is not the same as paying with Pay Pal. 

Can you provide your IP address?  I can pull the records to see specfically if your IP was used to cancel the account and if we still attempted the charge then we will fix it.  As I said we are here to make sure our users have a good experience and if we made a mistake we will own up to it and fix it as stated prior. 

Assuming one company is bad vs. another is never a smart thing, gather facts, talk to the company, to resolve any issues.  We responded to you and never heard back and then you chose to file this report.  We repsect people and their money and do not intentionally bill anyone that should not be billed.  But, we all know computers and software can make mistakes just like humans.  I can also pull the email record that went to your email regarding the cancellation. 

What was you user ID as well?  So I can track this information?  Or if you would like simply reply back to the email that was sent to you immediately when you contacted us and we will be glad to get this straight.

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#9 Author of original report

Let's start with your first lie.

AUTHOR: goldpartners - (USA)

1) "For the record we do not accept Pay Pal as a form of payment so this is entirely impossible."

__________________________________

Receipt for your debit card purchase
Transaction ID: 91S06637B85807140

Hello Allan Babby,

Thanks for using your PayPal Debit MasterCard. Here's a receipt for your records.

Please keep in mind that the amount below is what the merchant temporarily holds until the transaction is complete - it may not be the final purchase price. You'll be able to see the final amount in your account history once the transaction is complete.

If you don't want to receive an email every time you use your debit card, just change your notification preferences.

Amount
$0.01 USD

Merchant
VI-TEL WIRELESS LLC,SPRING,TX,
Please note that the name of merchant may be different once the transaction is complete.

______________________________________

2) "Second, did you receive a confirmation that you were cancelled, and if so please provide proof or details."

Just because you neglected to send me a confirmation doesn't exempt you from trying to make an unauthorized charge against my account.

______________________________________

3) Did you log in to your account and physically cancel your account and or did you request someone to do this for you, reason we ask is that if you did your self then it would be a problem we need to correct, however with the above mentioned regarding us not accepting Pay Pal as a form of payment this would still be impossible (REFER TO POINT #1).

* YES I DID LOG INTO MY ACCOUNT AND PHYSICALLY CANCEL MY ACCOUNT.

4) If you requested the cancellation and you received a confirmation (REFER TO POINT #2) and our system still tried to charge you that would also be a problem that we would correct immedaitely, however once again we don't accept Pay Pal as a form of payment so once again this can't be an accurate reflection of your problem (REFER TO POINT #1).
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#10 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Incorrect information

AUTHOR: Vi-Tel - (United States of America)

While we want to help you with your problem and do everything necessary to meet your needs, we also would like to explain a few things as well.  In your email to the company you stated the same thing and the company responded to your email within 24 hours.

For the record we do not accept Pay Pal as a form of payment so this is entirely impossible. 

Second, did you receive a confirmation that you were cancelled, and if so please provide proof or details. 

Did you log in to your account and physically cancel your account and or did you request someone to do this for you, reason we ask is that if you did your self then it would be a problem we need to correct, however with the above mentioned regarding us not accepting Pay Pal as a form of payment this would still be impossible. 

If you requested the cancellation and you received a confirmation and our system still tried to charge you that would also be a problem that we would correct immedaitely, however once again we don't accept Pay Pal as a form of payment so once again this can't be an accurate reflection of your problem. 

Thanks
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