• Report: #312428

Complaint Review: Victory Martial Arts

  • Submitted: Tue, February 26, 2008
  • Updated: Mon, September 24, 2012

  • Reported By:San Antonio Texas
Victory Martial Arts
www.victory4kids.com San Antonio, Texas U.S.A.

Victory Martial Arts Mr. Elder has some nerve! San Antonio Texas

*Consumer Comment: Helping your child

*Consumer Comment: It's your own fault!!!!!

*Consumer Comment: No Way Possiable

*Consumer Comment: Awesome Session with Mr. Elder Tonight!!!

*Consumer Suggestion: Be Patient

*Consumer Comment: Rethink Your Emotion

*Consumer Comment: Rethink Your Emotion

*Consumer Comment: Rethink Your Emotion

*Consumer Comment: Unreasonable attack

*Consumer Comment: Unbelievable!

*Consumer Comment: neccesary rebuttal

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I took my 3 year old son to a birthday party at the Victory Martial Arts school in Leon Springs and immediately was struck by how bright and exciting everything looked. My son felt the same and after an hour and a half party we were invited to try a class as a family with a ValPAK coupon that let us train for $49 for four weeks. Mr. Elder told me that his youngest student started at 2/12 years old and that my son would be able to try a few classes to see if he was also ready to start training. I was happy with this offer and took my son home.

We returned the following week to attend our first class together. My son had missed his nap and I forgot to give him his ADD/ADHD medication but that still did not make up for what happened. During one of the exercises my son was running around the mat and I guess was just a little worn out so he grabbed one of the little kicking targets and threw it at me. Mr. Elder then suggested we reschedule for a time when my son was "rested and focused".

I couldn't believe what I was hearing! Here is this instructor (supposedly one of the best in the city from what I'd heard from many other parents) telling ME how my son should act! I told Mr. Elder that I thought it was his job to teach "discipline and respect" as the martial arts teacher... he replied that it was indeed his job but that he would glad to work with my son "at a time when he's ready to try it". THEN Mr. Elder had the NERVE to tell me that he wanted to schedule a private lesson to help "ease my son's anxiety".

I proceeded to tell Mr. Elder that my son did NOT have anxiety and that if he couldn't participate in a group class like he wanted to then I wanted my $49 back on the spot. Mr. Elder replied that he could not give me a refund on the spot and that he would have to go through his headquarters. I can't believe that a school supposedly as successful as Victory (they have 4 schools in San Antonio) can't give me a $49 refund on the spot. My advice to any parent who wants martial arts for their child is to be very careful about going to Victory... The birthday party and the other classes I watched seemed great, everyone clapping and cheering... but what good is that if my son can't take class because of missing his medication?

I think a good instructor should be able to control a student's behavior regardless of whether or not they have ADD / ADHD. I will never go back to Victory and told Mr. Elder that when he called later that night to ask me "how my son was doing".

I recommend that everyone who has 3 to 4 year old children with ADD / ADHD stay away from this school. I am going to another school.

Edgar
San Antonio, Texas
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/26/2008 11:08 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Victory-Martial-Arts/San-Antonio-Texas-78257/Victory-Martial-Arts-Mr-Elder-has-some-nerve-San-Antonio-Texas-312428. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Helping your child

AUTHOR: Timothy - (USA)

Hello concerned parent. There are a couple of things I must say first. Number one karate does not give a child discipline parents do. What a karate school does is place the child in a position that they nurture and instill the rules of proper conduct which is not discipline. They learn respect by being in an environment that promotes respect and does not allow anything other that repectful conduct.It is wrong to expect any instructor to give your child something in two visits a week what should be worked out at home.

Second before any child enters any program it has to be for the benefit of the child. In the case of a child with your childs condition, the cost of one slip up outside the school can always show up in class. While I understand your anger it should not be placed with the instructor, especilly if he has a success rate as high as Victory martial arts.

The wise thing, if you expect your child to be helped by martial arts training, is to sit and discuss how the instructor can help your child and the "what ifs" I assume this ddi not happen so when you were already angry you blamed the instructor. Briefing him about the situation whenever your child is having a challenege before putting the child in the position to possibly have a melt down or in your case an episode would have aliviated your blow up. I think you needed an excuse to vent and to blame someone for the challenges you are having.

Blame is not the answer here but calm, rational planing as to the success of your child is. Dont be afraid to let your child stay at home if you know beforehand that they will be off task this will save damaging reports like this one and will give your child a better chance to improve as a person.

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#2 Consumer Comment

It's your own fault!!!!!

AUTHOR: Cherie - ()

I also have a son with ADHD. In my opinion you set your son and the instructor up for failire. No nap and no meds!  (At 3yrd a boy should not be on medication!!!) You can't expect an instructor to take a small over, over stimulated boy and control him. Teacher someone disapline, respect, etc... Takes time. It doesn't happen in an hour. Your son being so disruptive also was taking quality instruction away from everyone in class. Removing your son from the class at that time was part of the lesson of disaplin. 

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#3 Consumer Comment

No Way Possiable

AUTHOR: Jake - (United States of America)

I cant belive Sensei Elder acted that bad ever in his life im 24 years old now and  I too like your child have add/adhd/and suffer from other ailmants. I went to Sensei Elder back in the day when Victory was known originally as a different name. If it was not for him I would have never learned how to interact or respect people. In my opinion you may have taking things out of  context or misunderstood him. He is a very serious person, he has helped alot of children in the community to stay off the streets and not join gangs. I still cant believe he would do that. Im sorry for your experence though.
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#4 Consumer Comment

Awesome Session with Mr. Elder Tonight!!!

AUTHOR: Shawna K. - (United States of America)

Thanks to Mr. Elder for coming to Victory Martial Arts in Lansing, MI tonight.  He is an awesome instructor and my kids thoroughly enjoyed tonights extended session with him.  I was very impressed with his ability to conduct such a huge class (including kids with ADHD) so effectively.

Mr. Edgar,  after reading your comments below, might I so humbly suggest you start by removing your statement from Rip-Off-Report and here is why.  You yourself stated that your son was not well rested and had missed his medication, so perhaps this was the wrong night to bring him on. You also stated that it is the instructors job to teach discipline and respect... that kind sir starts at home, however with awesome instructors such as Mr. Elder of San Antonio and Mr Faett (my childrens instructor) it is reinforced in Martial Arts.  He then went so far as to offer to schedule a private lesson, how generous and very appropriate.  You were offending by the word anxiety, however anxiety displays itself in various forms, one of which is the inability to focus due to not knowing what is expected of oneself.  Your child was in a new element, unfamiliar and completely different than all others I suspect.  That in an adult will cause severe anxiety, so please understand that your child having anxiety to a particular situation (not knowing what is expected of him), does not mean your child was labeled with an anxiety disorder.  Also understand your child is not the only child that is there to learn and progress.  Therefore, if your child becomes too much of a disruption they will be asked to sit out for a time.  Your son was offered a private lesson instead.  Just as parents don't like to be told what to do by another parent while they are present, so do instructors.  During Taekwondo, the instructor is in charge and you need not be offended if your child is asked to sit out.  this affords you the opportunity for a teaching lesson when you come home.  Now the unfortunate part about all of this is that I suspect that you missed one of the key points of Martial Arts and that is Self Control.  I also suspect that this was done in front of your child and that is terribly unfortunate as you are his example.  Now as to the demand for your money back on the spot... there are proper procedures that one must follow and you were not denied your money back but rather the instructor needed to follow proper procedures.  Without sounding harsh, I would hope you could see the value in rules and teaching our children to follow them.   Quite honestly, after reading your 'report' (and I had to read it twice), I found that the only improper behavior came from the father not the child and certainly not Mr. Elder.  Children are learning from the adults, not the other way around and Mr. Elder offered to teach your child one on one! I'm sure you know one-on-one with a trainer comes at a premium. 

So as I said before, perhaps you yourself were not having a good day and you might consider retracting this post as it is defamation of character according to the facts in your written words. Afterwards, an apology to Mr Elder is very much in order.  In short, I believe you showed poor character in front of your son.  It might be important for you to understand, I went through Taekwondo once before with my oldest son (now 18) as I thought being an ADHD kid this would be very effective training for him based on what I was teaching him at home.  Ultimately, he was kicked out of the school and it was not due to inability to concentrate or improper use of his skills.  It was for a childish prank.  I was not mad at the school, nor did I blame the instructors.  Show your son what integrity looks like Edgar.



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#5 Consumer Suggestion

Be Patient

AUTHOR: Victory Parent - (United States of America)

As other parents have already noted, you are setting your son up to fail, then blaming someone else for your own shortcomings.
My 8-year-old son loves Victory Martial Arts and has only 3 belts to go until he reaches black belt. If your son is too young or had other distractions on that particular day to focus in class, it was entirely appropriate of Mr. Elder to suggest a private lesson.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life comes quickly and easily. All of your concerns are completely out of line and you will continue to set a bad example for your son if you are quick to blame others when you yourself have let him down. It is irresponsible of you to bash a business who was trying to handle your poorly behaved son (who you admitted had not napped or been given his medication!!!) in the most appropriate way.
People like you expect instant gratification and expect the world to revolve around them. I, too, work with children and they are a blessing. It is parents like you that can make it an nightmare.
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#6 Consumer Comment

Rethink Your Emotion

AUTHOR: Bo - (U.S.A.)

Edgar, reading your post I had to ask myself "exactly what did he expect?" As several of the poster above have stated, YOU took your son KNOWING the condition he was in. Knowing that, I am curious just exactly what YOU would have done had you had the responsibility that Mr. Elder had teaching that class.

I have been a student at one of the Victory schools for the past two years along with my seven year old daughter. I have seen the Victory instructors do some amazing things with students just like your son, the key is that YOU have to do you part. Martial arts is not magic, these instructors do help students LEARN discipline (they don't teach it). That however is not learned in one class. The private lesson Mr. Elder offered is exactly what your son needed (along with some rest and his meds).

As to your concern regarding Victory's ability to pay a refund on the spot. Well Edgar, I would suggest that you do a little research with the schools you sign up with because Victory is not four schools. It is a consortium of many more schools around the U.S. and is based in FL. I doubt that cash is readily kept in the schools as very few, if any, transactions are likely to occur in cash, and payables and receivables, like most businesses are paid from a central point, which is often headquarters.

Edgar, I would offer that if you can set your pride aside, Victory can do your son a lot of good. I have seen kids reduce the affects of ADHD and ADD through the training, curriculum and structure provided by the Victory schools. That said however, regardless of how good the school is where you take your son, YOU still have a part in the equation. You are the parent and need to do your part before the schools can do theirs.
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#7 Consumer Comment

Rethink Your Emotion

AUTHOR: Bo - (U.S.A.)

Edgar, reading your post I had to ask myself "exactly what did he expect?" As several of the poster above have stated, YOU took your son KNOWING the condition he was in. Knowing that, I am curious just exactly what YOU would have done had you had the responsibility that Mr. Elder had teaching that class.

I have been a student at one of the Victory schools for the past two years along with my seven year old daughter. I have seen the Victory instructors do some amazing things with students just like your son, the key is that YOU have to do you part. Martial arts is not magic, these instructors do help students LEARN discipline (they don't teach it). That however is not learned in one class. The private lesson Mr. Elder offered is exactly what your son needed (along with some rest and his meds).

As to your concern regarding Victory's ability to pay a refund on the spot. Well Edgar, I would suggest that you do a little research with the schools you sign up with because Victory is not four schools. It is a consortium of many more schools around the U.S. and is based in FL. I doubt that cash is readily kept in the schools as very few, if any, transactions are likely to occur in cash, and payables and receivables, like most businesses are paid from a central point, which is often headquarters.

Edgar, I would offer that if you can set your pride aside, Victory can do your son a lot of good. I have seen kids reduce the affects of ADHD and ADD through the training, curriculum and structure provided by the Victory schools. That said however, regardless of how good the school is where you take your son, YOU still have a part in the equation. You are the parent and need to do your part before the schools can do theirs.
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#8 Consumer Comment

Rethink Your Emotion

AUTHOR: Bo - (U.S.A.)

Edgar, reading your post I had to ask myself "exactly what did he expect?" As several of the poster above have stated, YOU took your son KNOWING the condition he was in. Knowing that, I am curious just exactly what YOU would have done had you had the responsibility that Mr. Elder had teaching that class.

I have been a student at one of the Victory schools for the past two years along with my seven year old daughter. I have seen the Victory instructors do some amazing things with students just like your son, the key is that YOU have to do you part. Martial arts is not magic, these instructors do help students LEARN discipline (they don't teach it). That however is not learned in one class. The private lesson Mr. Elder offered is exactly what your son needed (along with some rest and his meds).

As to your concern regarding Victory's ability to pay a refund on the spot. Well Edgar, I would suggest that you do a little research with the schools you sign up with because Victory is not four schools. It is a consortium of many more schools around the U.S. and is based in FL. I doubt that cash is readily kept in the schools as very few, if any, transactions are likely to occur in cash, and payables and receivables, like most businesses are paid from a central point, which is often headquarters.

Edgar, I would offer that if you can set your pride aside, Victory can do your son a lot of good. I have seen kids reduce the affects of ADHD and ADD through the training, curriculum and structure provided by the Victory schools. That said however, regardless of how good the school is where you take your son, YOU still have a part in the equation. You are the parent and need to do your part before the schools can do theirs.
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#9 Consumer Comment

Unreasonable attack

AUTHOR: Concerned Father - (U.S.A.)

My daughter and I attend Victory Martial Arts and we are very happy with Mr.Elder and his staff. Just because he may not be able to stop class and individually help your child is not a failure on his part. Your child is not the only one there and it is extremely selfish and ignorant on your part to assume that the class is yours alone. Stopping class to get your child to stand still every five minutes is a waste of everyone's time. Suggesting a private lesson was the correct way to handle your situation.My daughter is a "straight A student" with excellent manners and a black belt because of a combination of Victory and my own family morals. I therefore believe that your recent rant is an unreasonable attack and without substance.

Mark
San Antonio,TX.
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#10 Consumer Comment

Unbelievable!

AUTHOR: Nikkosan - (U.S.A.)

I have been in traditional Japanese Karate for close to 30 years, and have taught students, children and adults alike, with ADD, ADHD, who were blind, deaf, and coped with other disabilities.

Edgar, you have to sit back and look at this from a neutral position. First, you as a parent, should have known better bringing your child into an environment such as a Martial Art's School, that he would get "wound up" from the activities. Ir-regardless if he has ADD or not! Second, being he didn't have his medication, or a nap prior, you knew full well going into the classes that he was "primed." That was YOUR fault! Not the schools, nor the instructors. I think the instructors response was appropriate for the situation. Keep in mind, your child is not the only one in there, and the instructor has to look out for the well being of everyone.

Martial Art's, no matter the system or style, takes time to learn and improve upon. It sounds to me, that you expected to walk in the door and see miracles. Wrong! What kind of signal are you sending to your child saying after the first class "okay, you can't help me or my child, so I quit?" Negative, and that's the wrong way to teach a person with ADD.

If the instructor offered your son a private lesson, for free, to try and break the ice and get him comfortable with the surroundings, then what's wrong with that? Nothing! If he was going to charge you for the private lesson, then SHAME ON HIM!

My suggestion to you is take some time, think about it, and think what's best for your son. It's not going to be easy either with or without a nap, or with or without his medication.

I had a student with me many years ago, that not only had ADD, but also had a hearing and vision disability. His mother refused to put him on ADD medication and I agreed. I must admit, it was a struggle with Sam for many years, but he managed to make it to our advanced junior level after many years of hard, and diligent work. Both on his part, his parents, mine, my wife's, my Sensei's, and the other students in our school. Sam was a sincere kid that loved learning, but needed a little more attention and a different method of teaching/learning to get the same material the other students did. Sam actually became one of our assistant junior instructors where he would help me teach the beginner juniors. He was great and loved doing it as long as I could keep him from doing pirouettes in the back of the class.

Think about it, for your son's sake.


The next concern I have is students getting their black belts in 2-3 years. My question is this...... what have you really learned? I'm from the old school where it takes a minimum of 5 years to get there..... When and why did we decide that getting the black belt soon, was more important than the journey there? To me, a student with 2-3 years under their belt is NOT even close to being ready to test for black belt. Adult or children alike! This is just my opinion, and I apologize if I have offended anyone.
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#11 Consumer Comment

neccesary rebuttal

AUTHOR: Concerned Father - (U.S.A.)

I have been a member of Victory Martial Arts for 2 1/2 years. My 10 year old daughter also attends classes. We should earn our black belts in June. We have been very happy with Mr. Elder's classes and have never found him to be either rude or unfair in any our contracts or classes. What he told you about going through the home office is true. This a national franchise and being so naturally involves a little more red tape when it comes to refunds than normal.

As far as the issue of your son running around and throwing practice pads, I think Mr.Elder did the best he could considering the fact that he has other kids in the class that also need attention. If your son has difficulty with paying attention, and the fact that he is very young, I think Mr. Elder suggestion to offer a private class that he could teach one on one was not out of line. The life lessons learned in these classes are an integral part of every class. We as students are required to know them and follow them.

We have had an excellent experience with Victory and would gladly do it again. We will continue our training after we graduate in June.
MB
Victory Stone Oak
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