• Report: #209451

Complaint Review: Wealth Information Network ,WIN

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  • Submitted: Mon, September 04, 2006
  • Updated: Thu, September 14, 2006

  • Reported By:New Orleans Louisiana
Wealth Information Network ,WIN
211 NE 54th Street, Suite 200 Kansas City, Missouri U.S.A.

Wealth Information Network, WIN, Almost fell for scripted shtick coercing me to purchase bogus real estate "coaching" services Kansas City Missouri

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: The truth about this situation

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On Monday, August 14, 2006 at approximately 3:35pm CT "Kevin" called my voice mail box on behalf of Creative Real Estate Investing, stating in his message that he had "some additional information" for me, as he was aware that I had "previously invested into some of our website information on investing in real estate," and to get in touch with him at 1-800-514-1134, extension 112. Upon performing a search inquiry as to the origins of Kevin's number as it appeared on my caller ID, 816-453-8836, online at whitepages.com, I was provided with the following information:

Wealth Information Network
211 NE 54th St
Kansas City, MO 64118-4362
(816) 453-8836

Skeptical, I never returned Kevin's telephone call, as he asked me to do in his original message. Nevertheless, according to my cellular caller ID, Kevin continued to call my cell phone practically every day for the next week and a half, even on the weekend, but he never left me another message. Finally, on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 at approximately 6:59pm CT Kevin from Wealth Information Network called me back, as anticipated. It is now quite apparent looking back that Kevin's carelessness and scripted shtick was simply no match for my relentless research conducted prior to this day's conversation and my overwhelming skepticism. I decided to grab the bull by the horns and finally confront this incessant caller...

Upon answering the call, Kevin immediately began asking me questions he asked me what experience I had in real estate, and if I was ready to finally make some changes in my life for the better via real estate and I swear I could almost visualize him reading some script in front of him and frantically scribbling and making rapid notes based on my responses. I responded that I basically did not have any prior experience investing in real estate, but that I had looked into some other real estate training programs out there such as Russ Whitney and various others.

I mentioned that I was somewhat disappointed with the --------- after having invested some money with them and being misled, at which point Kevin gleefully stated that he understood, and that his company was there to train me and get me successfully started on my career path toward real estate investing.

Kevin assured me that his company helps people like me get off to a good start in real estate investing with their expertise and coaching, and that I would make back my coaching investment, guaranteed, after doing my first deal or two (yeah, right!) Afterwards, Kevin asked me if I had any lines of credit available, at which point the tone of my voice immediately shifted to a more defensive one I adamantly retorted that I do, but that I would need to know exactly how much this coaching was going to cost me before I could commit.

Kevin then circumvented my question, stating that they have different prices depending on what kind of deals you're looking to do (phew...how vague!) I told Kevin that I had previously spoken to his associate Dave Lundgren about one month earlier, and told him that we had spoken about the possibility of me purchasing the Special Offer Full Package Training Tuition for about $3000.00, as presented at theipmethod.com (apparently another WIN offshoot website.)

I then asked Kevin if he knew who Dave Lundgren was, and he responded that indeed he did, but he seemed to have absolutely no clue about what exact "Special Offer Full Package Training Tuition" I was talking about, only telling me that $3500 is where the pricing starts for their coaching (how conveniently quick he seemed to come up with that exact figure only then!)

Immediately discerning his lack of attention, I then asked him if it was necessary for me to seek RE coaching and guidance from his company in order for me to succeed with John Alexander's program and he responded matter-of-factly with a point-blank response that oh yeahabsolutely, in other words, that I would NOT succeed in real estate investing if I did not invest in their RE coaching. Assuming he had me stupefied and honed in for the kill, Kevin asked me how long had I been thinking about investing in real estate, and when I responded that about a year, his tone switched to that of some school principal scolding a schoolboy, attempting to invoke some sort of feelings of shame and/or guilt (what a buffoon!)

So when are you going to finally do something about your future, I mean, you just mentioned to me that you've been thinking about real estate investing for over a year! And to this I retorted, Listen, Kevin, it has taken me that long to think about real estate investing because there are so many programs and so-called real estate gurus out there, you have to be really careful these days. I then told Kevin that I was going to end the conversation, and that if I needed any additional information I would of course call him back as I mentioned I had his telephone number extension as well as his mailing address. At this point, Kevin's voice became almost ballistic and caustic, reprimanding me for not "doing anything after a year," and trying to provoke unfounded guilt in me...

So when are you going to get started in real estate...I mean, is it going to be another year? This, of course, was the straw that broke the camel's back, to which I responded, Kevin, if it takes me another year to study what all is out there and get started, then so be itafter all, there are a lot of scams out there and I have to be very careful. Once more, Kevin raised his voice even more, became pushy, and tried to convince me otherwise, to which I responded once more, I have your number, and I'll call you back if I have any other questions, and have a nice day. And then I hung upand to this day I have never heard back from Kevin, or from anyone else at Wealth Information Network, and I of course don't anticipate ever hearing back from them, as I assume Kevin and his cronies got the message. Goons galore...what a sham!

It all seems so clear to me now, and of course a little background information is in order Upon signing up for the 7-Day trial at www.creativereinvesting.com as advertised on the night of John Alexander's Tele-workshop held on Tuesday, June 27th 2006 I wrote an email to support@creativereinvesting.com on 6/30/2006 asking some questions about John Alexander's Full Package Special Offer as presented at theipmethod.com and received a response that same evening from Marc Varone (listed by the Better Business Bureau as Director of Client Relations at Wealth Information Network.) In that email I posed Marc my question, If I choose John Alexander's Full Package Special Offer for $3000, will this be sufficient enough training for me to then go out and flip contracts in flying colors, or will there be a need for me to obtain additional training (and therefore spend more money?)"

I never heard back from Marc Varone, but a few days later I received a telephone call from Dave Lundgren and so we spoke after my posing the same basic question. (He indicated during the conversation that he was fully aware of my conversing back and forth with Marc Varone via email, as on the night of the John Alexander Tele-workshop held on Tuesday, June 27, 2006, I had been communicating with Marc about not being able to use a credit card to sign up.) According to my recollection of the conversation with Dave Lundgren on 7/25/06, listed by the Better Business Bureau as additional company management personnel, Dave asked me if I would be interested in investing in the coaching program, in addition to the John Alexander Full Package Training Tuition for $3,039.

After asking Dave Lundgren if it would absolutely be necessary for me to do so to be able to succeed with this course, he told me no, it would not be and that in fact a lot of people do just fine with Dave's program by simply acquiring the course and not seeking additional coaching. It is something extra, and so I told him that in the future I would consider seeking coaching only IF I failed to fully grasp John Alexander's Inverse Purchase Method and/or was having trouble closing a deal.

Apparently, then, Dave Lundgren failed to convey this same message to his WIN associate Kevin, as Kevin seemed fully unaware of this particular offer for $3,039, and categorically assured me that I would only succeed with the Inverse Purchase Method if I invested in Wealth Information Network's exorbitant coaching. If these people are to pull off a good scam, then the least they could do is get their shit together when trying to coerce someone into purchasing this expensive bogus mentoring program!

Forewarned is a forearmed person...I get the impression that these creative real estate investing people are more interested in creative advertising, because all they really want you to do is buy their garbage coaching program(s) via unadulterated deception, and of course they seem to base the price of the program on how many lines of credit you have available. It seems that the more you have, the higher they price it. This explains why my pal Kevin at Wealth Information Network could never really give me a concrete answer whenever I'd ask him about how much their coaching costs, but rather, that they have different prices depending on what kind of deals you want to do. I'm sure that there is a very wide variation of price that people have already paid for the same exact bloody thing. It's fraud and a complete sham!

It sure would be interesting to find out if the Missouri Division of Consumer Protection is taking any action against Wealth Information Network for seemingly violating consumer protection laws. WIN doesn't exactly have a squeaky clean record with the Better Business Bureau either (see their BBB Reliability Report.) Anyone coerced into this expensive bogus mentoring program executed by Wealth Information Network based out of Kansas City, MO should IMMEDIATELY file a consumer complaint against this company with the Missouri Division of Consumer Program, certainly to try and get your money back!

On one final note...I find it really interesting that Wealth Information Network does not list any testimonials whatsoever, or any prices AT ALL on its website, wincoaching.com And what they DO have on their website is so vague... WIN provides advanced information and guidance for you as a Real Estate Investor. We can get you started or make you more effective at what you're already doing. The information we provide throughout the coaching program draws on our long experience as real estate investors and as coaches to other real estate investors." This next statement is really sketchy... "The coaching program does not promote any particular real estate methodology in general but can adapt to your particular needs or focus. We make our coaching sessions and other training resources a clearinghouse for useful and practical information that will help you be successful.

My advice to anyone highly interested in investing in John Alexander's Inverse Purchase Method is to go deal directly with the source, and purchase John's program directly from John's company, GrayStone. But whatever you do, stay away from Wealth Information Network and WIN employees. Stay away from creativereinvesting.com, because their listed Missouri address is eerily similar to the one on file with the Better Business Bureau for Wealth Information Network! And stay away from www.theipmethod.com, because here they even tell you that any credit card charges incurred on their site will appear from Creative RE Investing!

On 8/19/2006 I wrote GrayStone an email, inquiring about their relationship to Wealth Information Network, and on 8/22/2006 I received a candid response from their customer service explaining that John Alexander has licensed certain products of his to other companies (i.e., Wealth Information Network,) for their own use and promotion. This explains why I had been on the receiving end of this particular company's marketing attempts. And of course you don't find any mention of Wealth Information Network on GrayStone Wealth Company's website, paperbiz.com, because Wealth Information Network (WIN) is a completely separate company. Also, GrayStone has this disclaimer in the Contact Us section of their website

"John Alexander does not own or operate the Infomercial Company or the business generated by its marketing. If you have purchased products from the TV advertisements, you must be sure to communicate and work with their representatives for all your customer service needs. GrayStone will not be able to lend customer support for TV infomercial purchases, as it does not handle customer relations or retain customer records for that company. John Alexander has licensed certain products to the TV Infomercial company for their own use and promotion. He also trains their coaches, but he has no control over their business. Each company operates and stands independently of each other. Thank you for your attention to this matter."

In closing, I highly doubt John Alexander or anybody else from GrayStone is reading this posting, but if they are, I would highly recommend to them that they be more careful in who they allow to receive John's licensing for their own use and promotion, because it is misleading and doesn't really do John Alexander any favors when these fraudulent companies misrepresent what John and his Inverse Purchase Method really stand for... WIN and others just don't make John look good when they're out there trying to rip people off using John's and others' programs. While Wealth Information Network ultimately failed in coercing me to fall for their gimmicks and hand over my hard-earned money, I must say that this entire ordeal has been extremely educational, and trust that others will be in a position to use my experience and will therefore know better and not fall for this scam... Caveat emptor!

John
New Orleans, Louisiana
U.S.A.

sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.


This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/04/2006 06:30 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Wealth-Information-Network-WIN/Kansas-City-Missouri-64118-4362/Wealth-Information-Network-WIN-Almost-fell-for-scripted-shtick-coercing-me-to-purchase-b-209451. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

The truth about this situation

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

I called John back personally to resolve any complaints he had and offer to get help him get through his first successfull real estate transaction for free. He declined. Our company has helped our students do numerous successful, documented real estate transactions. This individual (by his own admission) has not done one deal and when we offered to help him for free, he declined. Interesting.

A couple of points that John (complainer) is completely incorrect about:
1- Our company never charged this individual a dime. He has never used our services or paid us any money. If he has not done any business with us - then obviously he's never "lost any money" -other than the opportunity cost by not investing in real estate already.
2- we have numerous documented success stories and between Graystone and WIN, we've helped thousands of students do millions of dollars in real estate transactions. These are documented real people doing real deals. We are happy to provide these to our clients, but he never asked for these.
3- Kevin no longer is an employee of Wealth Information Network.
4- WIN has no affiliation witht the infomercial company.

John had no complaint about the way I handled the call with him. His main concern/complaint is that he didn't appreciate the way a former employee (Kevin) handled a call. Understood. That employee is no longer with our company because he was unprofessional in dealing with client's like John. For quality control and training we record calls so we can insure professionalism.

Again - this individual never used our services or mentoring or products - if so, I'm sure he'd be to busy making money in creative real estate to spend his time complaining.

Concerns/questions for John. You mentioned you had been thinking about real estate for over a year. Have you done any deals yet? If you had a concern with Kevin, why not call me back and let me know things were not handled professionally?
My recommendation is to spend more time working on real estate deals and less complaining. You should pick up a good book like "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill or "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". There is so much opportunity in the real estate market right now!! Go take advantage!!
If/when you have legitimate complaints, there are professional ways to communicate these. We're always open to feedback and improvement.
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