• Report: #145096

Complaint Review: Wells Fargo

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  • Submitted: Sat, June 04, 2005
  • Updated: Fri, October 07, 2005

  • Reported By:Palm Springs California
Wells Fargo
420 Montgomery Street Nationwide U.S.A.
  • Phone:
  • Web:
  • Category: Banks

Wells Fargo CUSTOMER SERVICE DEPT, FRAUD DEPT LETTER SENT TO WF CONCERNING FRAUD THAT THEY LET HAPPEN TO ME CAN I BRING LITIGATION? A NATIONAL US BANK HQED IN CALIFORNIA

*Consumer Suggestion: Demand-draft fraud prompted the FDIC earlier this year to issue a special alert about the online service, "Qchex.com" Qchex, a subsidiary of Neovi Data Corp

*UPDATE Employee: reg e laws

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THIS IS THE LETTER I SENT TO WELLS FARGO. IF ANYONE KNOWS OF A WAY TO MAKE THEM TELL ME HOW THIS FRAUD OCCURRED I WOULD GREATLY APPRECEIATE IT. THIS LETTER IS LONG. I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO. I WOULD LIKE TO BRING LITIGATION CONCERNING THEIR LACK OF CONSUMER PROTECTION. IT LOOKS AS IF THE CRIMINALS "RECREATED" A CARD WITH MY ACCOUNT AND PIN#. I SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROTECTED. I FEEL THAT WF EMPLOYEES COULD BE INVOLVED AS I HAVE NOT LOST ANYTHING OF MINE, CHECKS ATM ETC. NO WIFE ETC HAS MY INFO. PLEASE HELP. LETTER IS VERY LONG, BUT THE SITUATION IS LONG AS WELL.


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: OR CHISTY PHILIPS

My name is Mark *****, and I just got off the phone with somebody named Teresa @ 5:50pm PST. Saturday June 4, 2005. I reached this person through the Wells Fargo online banking number. She has informed me that this (your email address) would be the proper place to register a complaint about a despicable situation that I currently find myself in with my bank, Wells Fargo. I have to tell you that my experience just now with Teresa typifies the entire situation as it is germane to the way you people have chosen to handle this incident. I am disgusted and sickened by what has happened in the last 72 hours and I need to find a way to let somebody at the corporate level know about what is going on with the personnel you have hired. In asking Teresa what email address I might have to convey this message, she in less eloquent words, told me to look it up for myself. When I explained that I had searched as far as I could go, she proceeded to attempt to show me where it was located. She of course proceeded to tell me the wrong area of your site and had to back track, but either way when she got to the place where I couldn't go, because I couldn't log on, as you people have me so screwed me up that I can't, she put me on hold again. Then came back with this email address: corr@wellsfargo.com. When I asked her to where or whom this address went, she explained that it went to the email department. Does that even sound correct to you? To register a complaint about this reprehensible situation, of which I will gladly inform you, she sends me to the email department? Everything anyone would want to know about your customer service can be illustrated in this exchange. Teresa should be retrained if she ever was.

On June 3rd 2005 at approximately 9:45 am PST, somebody who I believe identified herself as Sandy and represented Wells-Fargo informed me that my account was $13,000 overdrawn. Out of a dead sleep, I told her that she was nuts, that if she was after information about me, she wouldn't be doing her fishing here. I hung up on her, I so thought she didn't represent Wells-Fargo. I then went to my machine and looked up my account at your website. Sure enough I am $13,000 overdrawn. HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN? I called the number on the back of my ATM card and spoke with somebody, I was so livid, that I do not remember her name. She said she understood why I was so upset and told me that she could take care of registering the fraud right there. We went through the entire itemized list of my account history. Littered through out were 27 separate charges, attempted empty deposits overdraft charges or other fees that were and are MOST EMPHATICALLY NOT MINE. After marking and noting all of these, she then gave me 2 sets of Reference numbers. ***************. Then she told me that it would take 5 to 10 business days before I saw any action on this. WHAT? THIS IS MY MONEY. YOU PEOPLE HAVE ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN. I MAKE THE SAME PROVINCIAL PURCHASES OVER AND OVER AGAIN. THEY ARE GENERALLY ALL IN 1 of 2 CITIES. My girlfriends house in El Paso and My town area of Coachella Valley California. All of these are obviously out of the scope of my area. I have been a customer of a little over 2 years now and have never had anything like this. The amount less my genuine purchases and the deposit of my bi-monthly paycheck is less than $400 dollars. Even with this rather paltry sum, there was nothing that you, my bank, could do for my money.

THIS ALONE ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTS ME. I asked for a supervisor. Some woman came on and before I could get a word in, she told me that there was nothing she could or would do. She informed me that she could transfer me to the fraud division, but little would be done there either. This miserable supervisor, which although I did not get her name, I know it will be recorded somewhere (even your staff couldn't deny that this phone call was taken, it is too serious) forwarded me TO THE WRONG DEPARTMENT. THIS PERSON WHO YOU PAY ADDITIONAL MONEY TO BECAUSE SHE IS A SUPERVISOR TRANSFERRED ME TO THE COMPLETELY WRONG DEPARTMENT. The woman who answered transferred me to the fraud department, where I had to enter an entirely new phone IVR tree. After pushing buttons I was put into a phone queue for 21 minuets and 43 seconds before a female voice came on the line. She didn't say hello or announce herself, she simply told me to hold on for a second. After 2 minuets passed, I said hello again where she exasperatingly exhaled and hung up on me. IF YOU DOUBT THE VERACITY OF WHAT I SAY, PLEASE LOOK IT UP. I KNOW FULL WELL THAT YOU RECORD EVERY ACTION AT YOUR CALL CENTERS. This person hung up on me, after all that I had already been through.

At this point, go ahead take a breath. This has only begun with you people. I spent the next 4 hours dealing with your staff and I am going to let you know about every horrible incident. And there were several more. WHOEVER IS READING THIS, I WILL NOT DESIST UNTIL YOU HAVE IT FIGURED OUT. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU INTEND TO DO ABOUT THIS SO PLEASE CONSIDER THAT AS YOU READ FURTHER.

When I regained my composure and got the fraud number out from your web site I called them back. This time after another 25 minute wait. I got to somebody named Frank. Frank could tell me very little. He explained that there was nothing he could do, that I would have to wait until Monday at the very latest. As the fraud report had just been entered he couldn't do anything to fix my account, so as to have access to MY MONEY. I asked him again, you mean there is no way to get to MY money? He said, What, you mean a provisional credit? Yes Frank, I don't care what you in the boiler room call it, just do it. He went on to tell me he couldn't and what's worse about Frank than anything else was his parting words when I asked to speak to HIS supervisor, Stacy, How do we know you aren't involved? Did you ever think of that? To be accused by your inept and incompetent staff is SICKENING. That sniveling little boiler room working moron, doesn't have the integrity of 10 lifetimes to accuse me. I vehemently insist that above all else, you discipline this person. His supervisor Stacey was no better, nor was she anymore knowledgeable.

Whoever ultimately gets this letter at first must simply assume that if I don't get a response that I will make my way up the chain of command until I get satisfaction. THIS WILL NOT STAND. And I have 3 more hours of trouble with your staff around the country, to go.

At hearing this from the people I have trusted to watch my money (I know its not a lot, but you have no damn idea in this world whether or not I might be immeasurably wealthy in the years to come. I might just have a wealthy father.) I threw my clothing on and raced to the nearest and largest Wells Fargo branch I could think of. I went to the Palm Springs branch at 543 S PALM CANYON DR,PALM SPRINGS, CA 92264. I spoke to some staff there who told me that the first thing I needed to do was close and then open a new account. We proceeded to do that. I asked all kind of questions about the fraud and what I could do to facilitate fixing the problem or assisting in the prosecution of which they knew how to do NOTHING. They did politely tell me that I could use the phone in their branch to all them again myself. I DO NOT REALLY BLAME THESE 2 GUYS. They were merely tellers who tried their best.

When I did get on the phone with somebody, she informed me that the only way she could deal with me was with a reference number that I did not have. What? The 2 I have are not enough? So, she said she would stay on the line with me and we could call the Fraud department together. Guess what? She too waited for 15 minuets or so only to be hung up upon. Do you have any idea how pathetic that is? Your own company can't even call your company. WHAT TO DO YOU INTEND TO DO ABOUT THIS? This woman who I called while I was in the Palm Springs branch whose name was Carolyn I believe, told me to hold. She came back and asked me to find the branch manager. I did. His name was Edgar. She asked me to hand the phone to him. The spoke for 10 minutes and then he asked me to come into his office with him. There he asked me ONCE AGAIN to explain the situation. He acted as if he couldn't or wouldn't do anything for me until I started to get loud in the branch. THIS IS REDICULOUS. I HAVE TO RAISE MY VOICE AND EMBARRASS YOUR MANAGERS BEFORE I CAN GET A GOD DAMN THING DONE? Eventually Edgar agreed to do what he could. He called some number offered them special manager code to get things done, and proceeded to talk to a woman named Marissa (spelling?) After 32 minutes of sitting in Edgar's office while he spoke to Marissa I was handed the phone.

Marissa informed me that sure they could fix the problem right now and she could get me the money that existed in the account prior to the fraud of which like I stated before was less than $400 dollars. SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE. SOMEBODY COULD FIX THE PROBLEM IF ONLY THEY HAD THE RIGHT MOTIVATION. WHAT IS THIS? THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT.? Whomever is now reading this, I absolutely insist that you get back to me and let me know what you intend to do about all of this. OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN'T BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FRAUD DIRECTLY. DON'T YOU DARE HAND ME SOME SONG AND DANCE ABOUT THIS DAY AND AGE AND WHAT KIND OF SOPHISTICAED CRIMINALS ARE OUT THERE? THAT I ALREADY KNOW. THE PROBLEM IS WHAT YOUR COMPANY DID AFTER THAT FACT. I DON'T KNOW YET WHAT MY LEGAL RECOURSE IS, BUT YOU CAN BE ASSURED THAT I AM INVESTIGATING EVERYTHING. This Marissa was the only person who was able to do a thing for me. She is the only one who had the right attitude about dealing with a disenfranchised customer. You should take the salary of every person I have just mentioned and donate it to Marissa. In fact I say that in jest, but I am going to make a request that not only do you reprimand all the people who have failed in their capacity as employees of the Wells Fargo company and commend her for her honorable attention to detail and helpfulness with some just reward. Marissa, moved my pre fraud balance over to the new account and I could once again eat and put gas into my empty car.

THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE FROM PHONE CALL ONE. LEAVING WELLS FARGO AND CHOOSING ANOTHER BANK WILL NOT STOP THIS AND I AM NOT BACKING DOWN FROM A FIGHT. I DON'T KNOW IF I WILL EVER BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT WELLS FARGO ACTED WITH MALFEASANCE BUT MOVING TO ANOTHER BANK WILL CERTAINLY NOT PROVE IT. DON'T GET ME WRONG I DON'T KNOW IF I AM GOING TO LEAVE YET, I MAY STILL. IT WILL DEPEND ON YOUR RESPONSE. MY GRANDMOTHER VIRGINIA **** HAD AN ACCOUNT WITH YOUR PEOPLE FOR OVER 40 YEARS AND THIS IS THE WAY YOU TREAT ANY CUSTOMER?

I expect a phone call from somebody and soon. Again, my name is Mark ****, I can be reached at ******. If I don't get some attention from somebody at the corporate level concerning this issue, I will persist until I get an email to every manager, department head, supervisor or boss. Every location and every website will know about this issue and who has failed to deal with it.

PS. IN THE LONG RUN MARISSA DID NOT DO A WHOLE LOT. I STILL DONT HAVE ACCESS TO MY OWN ACCOUNT AND MONEY.

Sincerely, in horrific frustration,
Mark ****

Mark
Palm Springs, California
U.S.A.

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This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/04/2005 11:50 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Wells-Fargo/nationwide/Wells-Fargo-CUSTOMER-SERVICE-DEPT-FRAUD-DEPT-LETTER-SENT-TO-WF-CONCERNING-FRAUD-THAT-THEY-145096. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Suggestion

Demand-draft fraud prompted the FDIC earlier this year to issue a special alert about the online service, "Qchex.com" Qchex, a subsidiary of Neovi Data Corp

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

New check fraud ravaging accounts. Counterfeit 'demand drafts' being used to drain balances.

This fraud involves the use of "demand drafts" or "remotely created checks," a type of check often used to allow purchases from telemarketers. It requires no handwritten signature endorsement to deposit. Instead, a statement on the check says that the customer authorized the check. Or, the check may have the customer's printed or typed name.

A crook easily can create these checks using your account number and information, typically printed on any check you write. Once someone deposits the demand draft, your account is debited. You might not notice it until you get your monthly statement. By that time, it could be too late. Your bank generally is required to return an unauthorized check by midnight of the banking day after the check is presented for payment.

Anyone can create a demand draft. "All it takes is a computer, printer and the right software," warns Elliot Burg, Vermont assistant attorney general.

With credit cards, you have the right to dispute a fraudulent charge and likely can get it credited. But "with a bank debit from your bank account, you don't have that right," Burg says.

Demand drafts are covered by the Uniform Commercial Code and a patchwork quilt of state regulations. You're not supposed to be liable for unauthorized checks against your account. The problem is proving fraud -- especially with no signature -- if your bank doesn't respond or if it doesn't believe you. FDIC insurance coverage is limited to bank failures.

The only thing you can do is tell your bank, "I didn't authorize it. It was forged. I never got a phone call. Or, I did get a call from a telemarketer, but I said no. I never gave my account information out," Burg says.

Fraudulent demand drafts often are issued in small enough increments to attract little attention, say $200 to $500. Take Burg's current case: There were 1,500 demand-draft debits made from various bank accounts nationwide. Total: $415,000. A Vermont check-processing company alerted authorities upon noticing half of the drafts printed for two Canadian telemarketers were returned due to insufficient funds or closed accounts. That, according to Burg, almost never happens.

Gary Fox, president of Bartow County Bank, Cartersville, Ga., says his bank charged off $18,000 due to fraudulent demand drafts. "Someone who had an account at another bank got the account information out of one of my customers."

It's unclear how widespread this type of fraud is. Reason: There's no single place to report it -- despite loads of federal and state bank regulators and law enforcement agencies. But it has attracted the attention of the Federal Reserve Board.

The Fed, which could act as early as this month, proposes to make the bank that accepts a fraudulent deposit draft for deposit liable for the loss.

Demand-draft fraud prompted the FDIC earlier this year to issue a special alert about the online service, "Qchex.com" Qchex, a subsidiary of Neovi Data Corp., San Diego, lets users anywhere print checks or send demand drafts by e-mail to recipients who print them. Victims included Internet merchants, who sometimes got an overpayment with a request to wire-transfer back excess money.

"Qchex's management team met with the FDIC, as well as representatives from financial-institution trade associations, to discuss concerns," says FDIC spokesman Frank Gresock. "At these meetings, Qchex management explained plans to improve their means of authenticating users. Qchex told us it has added a new validation system, similar to PayPal's.

Although there are other Internet companies, like Qchex, the FDIC says it has received no complaints about them. Some say it's a matter of time.

The National Association of Attorneys General wants the Fed to eliminate demand drafts.

"I feel (demand-draft fraud is) happening all the time," Burg says.

Demand drafts may be useful in some instances, such as avoiding a late mortgage or credit-card payment or sending money to a child at college. They are fast and can be cheaper than other types of transactions, including electronic checks, says Steve Powell, president of Checks Only, Yucaipa, Calif. His Web site, Checksonly.com, offers demand drafts.

Powell says he terminated some users' access to his service after a few fraud complaints, and has implemented stronger safety features. He checks account numbers and routing numbers against an updated database.

Can you arrange for your bank to prevent demand drafts from accessing your account? That's up to your bank. But a bank's automated system likely can't recognize demand drafts.

So about all you can do is:

Hang up on telemarketers.
Never reveal personal financial information.
Frequently review your checking-account statements online.
Only do business with banks that give good customer service. Check bank complaints at www.ripoffreport.com.
Call your bank immediately and notify law enforcement if you have problems.
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#2 UPDATE Employee

reg e laws

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

i worked in the wells atm reg e for 2 years
what you are saying foir time line is common practice
if you want to know morem let me knpw
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