• Report: #660669

Complaint Review: Western Union Corporate

  • Submitted: Wed, November 10, 2010
  • Updated: Fri, November 19, 2010

  • Reported By: JW — New York New York United States of America
Western Union Corporate
12500 East Belford Ave. Englewood, Colorado United States of America

Western Union Corporate Ripping Off Those Who Are Unable To Fight Back Englewood, Colorado

*Consumer Comment: You're welcome

*Author of original report: Response to Ronny...

*Consumer Comment: Also...

*Consumer Comment: My opinion...

*Author of original report: CLARIFICATION OF CLAIM BASIS

*Consumer Comment: Response to post #4...

*Author of original report: Dear Robert,

*Consumer Comment: Bogus.

*Consumer Suggestion: Not surprising.

*Consumer Comment: Brutal..

*Consumer Comment: Are you surprised

*Author of original report: Lawsuits Listed as Requested...

*Consumer Suggestion: This Could Get REAL Interesting

*Consumer Comment: Are you sure?

*Consumer Comment: What lawsuits?

*General Comment: Will do...

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This is Western Union's "mission statement" as it is posted on their website and cited as the goal of every one of their top level executives:

"Our management team executes strategies around the world to adapt our business to the needs of the marketplace and help millions of people live easier lives."

HA.

Once again:

HA!

Neither my wife nor myself had ever tried to send money via Western Union previous to the FAILED ATTEMPT we made recently in order to help a friend in real need.  NOR SHALL WE EVER TRY AGAIN.

Judging by this company's archaic, feudal-like "policies", and in spite of it's 150 year history, it is little more than yet another company wholly dedicated to ripping off this country's  growing population of poverty-stricken families and individuals.

And no, neither my wife nor myself fit into this category.

We simply tried to send money to a mutual friend, who, while he was traveling abroad, had been robbed in every way imaginable (house, car, ID theft).  It was our hope to provide him with a tiny, short-term loan to tide him over until some of his insurance matters were settled and his bank and credit card accounts were "unfrozen".

Western Union would not release the money to our friend, claiming he had "insufficient identification". After being provided with numerous, rather complicated options by Western Union that were supposed to have cleared this matter and allowed our friend to pick-up his money, we then decided the easiest thing to do would be to to get a refund and simply send a money order via Fed Ex - something we did actually do.

That was six days ago.  To date, we do not have our money back from Western Union, and Western Union claims that they may yet keep our "transfer fee" pending their "investigation" into the matter (meaning, it is their intention to determine that it was somehow OUR fault that the money could not be picked-up).

THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A POLICY DESIGNED TO ROB THOSE THAT LACK THE RESOURCES TO FIGHT BACK.

Well, it was only a matter of time before they picked on someone their own size, I suppose. I personally have either played a major role, or assisted significantly in bringing not less than 5 successful class-actions against major American corporations to successful fruition within the last ten years - the total value of which for those who were ripped-off ran into the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Watch this space for a website address where ANYONE who has been ripped-off by Western Union in a manner similar to what has been described may file for monetary satisfaction as part of a CLASS-ACTION LAW SUIT (with WU's third quarter results alone
boasting $1.3 Billion of revenue, there's going to be plenty to go around).

This will likely take some time (at least a year or more to gain class action status in the courts), so please be patient and DO NOT attempt to contact me directly regarding this matter. Don't worry... when the time comes... YOU'LL KNOW.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/10/2010 10:03 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Western-Union-Corporate/Englewood-Colorado-80112/Western-Union-Corporate-Ripping-Off-Those-Who-Are-Unable-To-Fight-Back-Englewood-Colorad-660669. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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4Author 12Consumer 0Employee/Owner
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#1 Consumer Comment

You're welcome

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

Well anyhow good luck with it. I am a stand up guy myself and don't like when the "small guy" gets taken advantage of in any way, if that is the case. I can not debate what I do not know and if your are indeed withholding some facts..well keep us posted.

What I would be more interested in having investigated with the sleazy company, and another reply brought this up, is how the scammers are able to pick up funds.

I am sure the scammers are not using a real name, hence they are certainly not using legit forms of ID..I guess in cases the ID could be stolen or good forgeries.

I have read some interesting things about this, but I can not verify it. There are "accusations", the WU employees in other counties (and maybe some here?), are involved. I personally do not believe the majority of the employees are involved..but there seems to be evidence that some are. And the victim of these scams have forever lost probably 10 times the amount you paid for the transfer fee.

I hold the victims actually greatly responsible as they brought this on themselves by being foolish, ignorant, and taking a HUGE risk they lost..and the fact the WU does post huge signs warning against this..but at the same time, if any of the employees are involved in the crime..then someone has to do the time.
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#2 Author of original report

Response to Ronny...

AUTHOR: JW - (United States of America)

Ronny, I see your point(s). And yes, I think your hypothesis regarding what stance WU attorneys will assume is valid.

Certainly, companies have the right to set the conditions under which they perform their services, but there are elements to this case specifically that I will not reveal here as of yet that do show how WU in certain cases "makes things up as they go".  Meaning, their corporate policies are often not adhered to at the local site level in any reasonable form - this leaving the consumer to literally "guess and hope for the best" when using the WU money transfer service.

Again, I can't go into specifics as of yet, but I will as things on this end get rolling.

Thanks for your input...
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#3 Consumer Comment

Also...

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

..I went to the WU website to read the terms just out of curiosity. Granted, there is no specific term that states you can not get a refund if the person receiving the funds lacks proper ID. It does however state what forms of ID is required.

Really the only thing it states about refunding transfer fees, is if it takes to long for the funds to arrive, or they don't arrive.

I can understand why you are angry, I would be as well. But you are using as a basis for claim that a service was not rendered, therefore you should not have to pay the fee.

I don't know if that will hold weight. I guess it would be like if you mailed a letter that required signature confirmation, but the person you sent it did not have the proper ID. If the letter got sent back to you...there was still a service performed, but it failed to complete not due to the fault of the postal service..hence you would not be entitled to a refund of the postage.

I understand a letter is a physical item and an electronic transfer is not a fair comparison, but nonetheless, this is the SERVICE they provide..they send funds electronically..the funds are the "letter", and the fee is the "postage". At least that is how the the WU lawyers would most likely look at it.
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#4 Consumer Comment

My opinion...

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

...if it means anything..take it with a grain of salt.

The problem you have with the transfer fee, is if it is stated anywhere in the terms that the fee is non refundable, or that they are not responsible for the fee if the funds are returned for ANY reason..or if they disclose what type of ID is required for receiving..then it will be a tough case.

How much do you really think each plaintiff would recover if this actually made it to court, and WU lost or settled?

Probably not a whole lot after legal fees.

What it may result in if it was to make it to court and they lost, is WU being forced to make the policies more clear, or maybe change something in the policy. But they are a private business and unless they clearly violated any laws, I can't see this to be worth pursuing.

If you are concerned about getting the fee back and feel WU has kept it unjustly, perhaps consider a small claims suit? They would probably just send you the fee back rather then deal with a court date.
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#5 Author of original report

CLARIFICATION OF CLAIM BASIS

AUTHOR: JW - (United States of America)

Just a clarification:

The action makes no claim based upon the fact that WU refused pick-up due to lack of ID. Rather, it is based on the fact that WU refused to refund the amount of the transfer FEE pending their "investigation" into the matter.  I have since received my refund for the amount of the transfer itself (however, it took 12 days), but the basis of the action is as follows:

WU has decided to keep the money transfer FEE, claiming that it was not their fault that the money could not be picked-up.

My (our) contention is that regardless of who or what prevented the pick-up of the money, ultimately, NO SERVICE WAS PROVIDED.

No service should equal no fee.

At this point I can only imagine how much of WU's profit margin is made up of fees that were kept while the customer went without the service.

That's it.
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#6 Consumer Comment

Response to post #4...

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

"John" from Memphis...

"When this gets to court I'll be watching to see how WU explains how they let scammers pick up their cash with no ID. Why do you think WU and MoneyGram are the scammers favorite payment method. Do you think they would use them if they had to provide ID when getting the cash???


Why doesn't WU just take the persons fingerprint??? What about a photo???"

If this case did make it to court, it would actually go against the plaintiffs case if they were to ask WU to explain or admit how they let scammers pick up cash with no ID..since the OP states in this case...they did not allow the party to pick up the cash  due to insufficient ID. So all WU has to state in this case..is they were wisely trying to avoid a scam. How could anyone dispute that?

It would have to be a separate investigation to get to the bottom of how and why the scammers get away with what they do via WU.

Now you ask why doesn't WU just take fingerprints and a photo? My guess would be, that since they profit as well from the scams..it is actually in their best financial interests..to do as least as possible to prevent them.

I would agree "loosely" that there could be cause/grounds for a class action...but at least in the local WU near me..the signs are so clearly posted...that you should not send funds to ANYONE you do not know. If you do, they and the police and the FBI and the bank etc etc...will do NOTHING for you. So with that understood by myself..I simply choose of my own free will....not to use them. There are other safer options to send funds.

As I stated, if someone in a jam asked me to wire them money via WU (and I was 1000% sure that it was not a scam but the actual person I know)...I would let them know before I sent a dime..that they are FULLY responsible for any fees or loss..and they owe me for the time and humiliation of walking into that horrible place and standing in line with the dregs.

If they do not agree to that..then they have to call someone else for help, or find a better option to send the funds. I can't expect to file a class action lawsuit against a company for my lack of good judgment, it would never fly. There has to be really solid proof of fraud and deception to win a lawsuit against a company like this. And proof that the loss (and proof of the loss), was due to fraud, deception, lack of disclosure , lack of good faith by the defendants etc..you know...grounds.

I don't know who would risk paying for a lawsuit like this..and I can't imagine any lawyers with an ounce of good sense taking on this one pro bono.



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#7 Author of original report

Dear Robert,

AUTHOR: JW - (United States of America)

WOW.

You seem upset.

Worse, I seem to be the cause.

My sincere apologies.

And, in the interest of your emotional well-being, I'll go even further: You are right. I am nothing but a windbag.

A blowhard.

A puffing, crowing, foot-stomping, fist-beating frightened little mouse.

Someone so utterly full of manure, I can scarcely cover the stench of dung on my breath with even the most potent of toothpastes and mouthwashes.

Feel better?

Furthermore, you are of course absolutely correct: a class member who reveals the nature and details of whatever settlement he or she may receive would not be in breach of the settlement agreement.

However, primary or principal plaintiffs are often an entirely different matter.

As a principal in the actions I mentioned, I was required to sign an agreement binding me to not only NOT reveal anything regarding my settlement as a primary plaintiff, but also that I not reveal myself as a plaintiff to anyone outside of those involved with the action.  Companies gain these kinds of agreements in settlement for a number of reasons that should be self-explanatory, so I'll allow you to fill in those blanks yourself.

Now, as you stated, court records are easily accessible by the general public.  And of course, if I were to provide you with my full name, you would certainly be able to use it as a means to discover whether or not any of my claims were true.

Needless to say, I'm not going to reveal my full name.  However, I'm thinking that this may make you rather happy as it will in all probability give you the justification you need in order to steel your (oddly) rage-fueled belief that I am a "windbag", which I'm guessing is something you need to believe about most people; although, I should admit that I honestly don't know what you think or what may motivate you (I can make a few good guesses, though).

As for my motivations?

This was my first post to Rip-off report. I guess I was expecting a place where consumers could come together, draw strength from others who are united behind a common cause, and find moral support among those who have been wronged in similar ways by an runaway, amoral economic system that is feudal in nature.

Fortunately, the depth of my disappointment is tempered by the fact that class-actions benefit little from brotherhood, and instead thrive on time, energy and money.

So, moving forward...

With regards to your utterly nonsensical reference to "a burning bush" in response to my assertion that those who have a claim against WU "...will know when the time comes", I can only say that in the last six months, I've received notice (completely "out of the blue") that I was a class member (where I was again, NOT a principal plaintiff, mind you) of not less than three actions, the most recent coming by way of text message (courtesy of the defendant, who is also my wireless carrier: AT&T).

Other notices have come by email, USPS, etc... Not via burning bush, smoke signal, Bat signal, demonic possession, or even by way of a visit from a ghostly Obi-wan Kenobi. So, I would like it known for the record, that when I stated, "You'll know when the time comes", I'm making reference to purely conventional modes of communication that will presumably be used to contact those individuals in a defendant's client records who may have been wronged.

Anyway... I'm sorry to say that I've wasted far more typing strokes than I had originally intended in responding to you.  You should know however, that I do not consider this response a waste because I don't believe you are unworthy of another human being's time and attention. Quite the contrary - I think you probably need more attention than many, if not most others.  Rather, I am saddened by the knowledge that you will almost certainly invest far more time and energy in crafting your response to this than you have likely ever expended in the pursuit of anything that may be relevant or worthwhile to your own immediate circumstances.

I wish you all the best.


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#8 Consumer Comment

Bogus.

AUTHOR: Flynrider - (USA)

"2) The principal plaintiffs and attorneys in each action NOT reveal any of the terms or details of the settlement(s). "

  Who are you trying to fool?   While such a restiction is common in a civil settlement, it would be unheard of in a class action.    The nature of a class action (namely a large group of people certified as the class) precludes such a settlement clause and the court is required to release the details of the settlement to all who might be a part of the class (i.e. the public).  

   Blow your smoke somewhere else.

 

  

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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Not surprising.

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

In response to the request that I list the class actions to which I have been a party to, I will not be able to comply.

I expected as much.  Whoosh!  That was the sound of your credibility spinning down the toilette.  Ill explain why below.

As in most cases of successful actions against major companies, each company settled before a final judgment was rendered under the condition that there was:

1) No admission of guilt on the part of the defendants; and,

True enough-plenty of class action defendants never admit to wrong doing.

2) The principal plaintiffs and attorneys in each action NOT reveal any of the terms or details of the settlement(s).

I didnt ask you for the terms of the settlements.  I asked for the case/docket numbers and the complete name of the courts that adjudicated the lawsuits-court information that is freely available to the public. 

So, you think Im going to believe that a successful multi-million dollar class action lawsuit simply vanished from court records?  Sorry Mr. Hot Air, thats not how it works.  I have a PACER account and frequently refer to pending and closed class action cases when Im assisting folks with credit issues.  Even when the terms of the settlement are sealed from the public, the case and the court approval of the settlement is still available to the public although the actual terms of the settlement are not public.

Further, you blowhard, the members of the class have to be NOTIFIED of the class action, the terms of any proposed settlement, and instructions to OPT-OUT of the class action (usually a form is required to be completed and sent to the court/plaintiff attorney of record) so they may bring their own civil action against the class action defendant at a later date.

In other words, your explanation as to why you are refusing to provide the case/docket number and name of the court that adjudicated  these cases you claim to have significantly aided is bullshit.

You could have simply stated you didn't have the time to look it up rather than spew this garbage.

Further, it is not my intention to garner any lists, names, money or any other "thing" to assist in my impending action - I thought that was rather clear.

I didnt offer any such assistance to your impending action.

If you are looking for some kind of "proof" regarding my claims, my question to you would be, "why"?

I voluntarily (for free and at my own expense) assist folks with credit issues in my spare time.  Ive been doing this for almost 30 years.  Ive have testified numerous times in various courts on behalf of a debtor and twice I testified in District Court, NY Western Division.  Also, I am a certified credit counselor (became certified earlier this year) who is accepted by Bankruptcy Courts.

Im interested when anyone posts an Im gonna sue ROR.  Most folks are unaware of what it takes to bring a successful class action.  There are many postings here on ROR where I have explained to folks a Readers Digest version of the class action process and the UP FRONT MONEY it takes to start such a legal action.

Most folks dont realize that someone has to do the leg work and FILE A CIVIL COMPLAINT and front the court costs, filing fees, class member notifications, discovery, etc.  This is normally accomplished by the LEAD PLAINTIFF(S) and this is why the lead plaintiffs are normally awarded a SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER award than the non-lead plaintiff class members.

Do you sit around all day waiting to see if there is some class action posted here that you can fraudulently make yourself a party to?

LOL!  You tool! Yeah right.  Actually, I cruise ROR when I have some down time while Im babysitting my servers.

Are you a corporate attorney working for WU that wanted to test the veracity of my last plea to your customer service department?

Nope-Im not an attorney, although sometimes I do assist a debtor and his/her attorney who is suing a creditor or debt collector for violating the FDCPA, FCRA and NYS General Business Law section 29H.

Im self-employed; computer services and property management.

The last action in which I was involved took three years to even gain class action status in the courts.

Really?  It took 3 years from the date of the initial civil case filing to the time the judge granted class action status to the lawsuit?  Thats not impossible, but it is very surprising.

And, so...

Bug off.

LMAO!  Yup!  Another full of hot air blowhard on the internet.   Tell you what, why dont you post the docket/case number and the name of the court of just ONE of your successful multi-million dollar class action lawsuits.  Its not necessary to post the information for 5,  ONE will suffice.

Do post the docket/case number and the name of the court that will adjudicate the case when you finally get around to filing your civil action against Western Union.

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#10 Consumer Comment

Brutal..

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

Robert did dish out a royal spanking.  Was it called for?? I do not really know.

I can say that unless WU did something that goes against anything all parties agree to in the operation..such has what is the proper/required ID to pick up funds..I would have a hard time believing this case would ever gain class action status.

But on the other hand...why is WU the NUMBER ONE way for scammers to collect their bounty? Something is fishy here..but since I have had to on occasion by no choice of my own and forced in with fingernails dragging the concrete deal with those horrible ghetto WU places, I did notice the huge signs on the wall that CLEARLY warn of the risks and the absolute LACK of ANY responsibility WU has for ANYTHING they do. So I will NEVER of my own free will... use them for anything.

If someone begs me to send money this way because they are in a jam and I get stuck with any fees...I would contact them when things are better and demand they pay me the fee or fees back..and possibly a little extra for the grief and humiliation it took just for me to walk into one of those places. Oh the humanity!
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#11 Consumer Comment

Are you surprised

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

In response to the request that I list the class actions to which I have been a party to, I will not be able to comply.


- Did anyone really expect anything different?


If you are looking for some kind of "proof" regarding my claims, my question to you would be, "why"?


- Because when you appear to just be "blowing hot air" it brings the rest of your "report" into question.


Like I said, when the time comes, YOU'LL KNOW.


- Will the sign be a Burning Bush? Having the clouds part and a ray of sunshine beaming down?  The Cubs winning the World Series?  Having an NFL Franchise come back to Los Angeles? 


Please tell us as I am sure we all want to know what the real sign is when it comes.

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#12 Author of original report

Lawsuits Listed as Requested...

AUTHOR: JW - (United States of America)

Sorry.

In response to the request that I list the class actions to which I have been a party to, I will not be able to comply.

As in most cases of successful actions against major companies, each company settled before a final judgment was rendered under the condition that there was:

1) No admission of guilt on the part of the defendants; and,

2) The principal plaintiffs and attorneys in each action NOT reveal any of the terms or details of the settlement(s).

Further, it is not my intention to garner any lists, names, money or any other "thing" to assist in my impending action - I thought that was rather clear.

If you are looking for some kind of "proof" regarding my claims, my question to you would be, "why"?

Have you been ripped-off by Western Union?

Do you sit around all day waiting to see if there is some class action posted here that you can fraudulently make yourself a party to?

Are you a corporate attorney working for WU that wanted to test the veracity of my last plea to your customer service department?

The last action in which I was involved took three years to even gain class action status in the courts.

And, so...

Bug off.

Like I said, when the time comes, YOU'LL KNOW.
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#13 Consumer Suggestion

This Could Get REAL Interesting

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

When this gets to court I'll be watching to see how WU explains how they let scammers pick up their cash with no ID. Why do you think WU and MoneyGram are the scammers favorite payment method. Do you think they would use them if they had to provide ID when getting the cash???


Why doesn't WU just take the persons fingerprint??? What about a photo???

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#14 Consumer Comment

Are you sure?

AUTHOR: JAFO - (USA)

Just curious if you actually spoke to your friend or just communicated through email/text/whatever?  What you describe happening to your friend matches EXACTLY a very common scam going these days using email/facebook/myspace.  That is probably why WU is taking their time with an investigation, to protect you and them from a potential scam.

And investigations can sometimes take 7 or more business days to resolve.  It's about due diligence to protect all parties.
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#15 Consumer Comment

What lawsuits?

AUTHOR: Robert - (USA)

I personally have either played a major role, or assisted significantly in bringing not less than 5 successful class-actions against major American corporations to successful fruition within the last ten years - the total value of which for those who were ripped-off ran into the hundreds of millions of dollars.


Kindly list the lawsuits.  Please include the correct docket/case number and the correct name of the court that adjudicated the lawsuits.

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#16 General Comment

Will do...

AUTHOR: Edgeman - (U.S.A.)

Per your instructions I will watch this page for more information regarding your lawsuit. I realize it will take time so I will simply add you to the list of users who claim that they will sue a corporation.
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