• Report: #14776

Complaint Review: Whitney Education Group Inc

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  • Submitted: Thu, February 21, 2002
  • Updated: Wed, October 05, 2011

  • Reported By:
Whitney Education Group Inc
4010 Corronado Parkway Cape Coral, Florida U.S.A.

Russ Whitney - Scam Alert - Whitney Education Group Cape Coral Florida

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I worked for them also. Horrible!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Whitney Education

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Whitney Education

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Whitney Education

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Whitney Education

*Consumer Comment: With a grain of salt

*Consumer Comment: Appreciation RipoffReport, you're the best educational site

*Consumer Comment: Appreciation RipoffReport, you're the best educational site

*Consumer Suggestion: Say No To Imbreeding! Free Real Estate training? Are we getting desperate? LOL.

*Consumer Suggestion: Can't Buy Believers!

*Consumer Suggestion: Attempting To Infringe On Peoples Right To Free Speech Are We?

*Consumer Comment: do the research - please !

*Consumer Suggestion: shills possess very low self esteems and are often just trying to win brownie points from their employers.

*Consumer Suggestion: Are Shills Able To Hear Themselves?

*Consumer Suggestion: More Mentoring Programs For Shill Barbie.

*Consumer Suggestion: Having Fun With Barbie Shill Doll.

*Consumer Suggestion: Wuss Whitney Report.

*Consumer Suggestion: Wuss Whitney Report.

*Consumer Suggestion: Wuss Whitney Report.

*Consumer Suggestion: Prove Something About Your Fraudulent Program You Little Biiach!

*Consumer Suggestion: Just Another Unproven Scam!

*Consumer Suggestion: If This Program Is Not A Scam, PROVE IT!

*Consumer Suggestion: If This Program Is Not A Scam, PROVE IT!

*Consumer Suggestion: If This Program Is Not A Scam, PROVE IT!

*Consumer Suggestion: My Take On This "Free" Workshop.

*Consumer Comment: Thanks to all of your posts, I will not be attending.

*Consumer Comment: Put it in perspective!

*Consumer Comment: 3-Day Training Seminar

*Consumer Comment: Blake pretty controversial

*Consumer Comment: What now? searched "Whitney Education" on Google and found this sit

*Consumer Comment: In response to Sharon

*Consumer Comment: AMBER: I AM DOING JUST THAT

*Consumer Comment: Rsponse to Amber, I've seen all types of scam and ripoffs, and Russ Whitney is scammer and a fraud. He's selling to the public at inflated prices information that can be read at the public library.

*Consumer Comment: Okay Sharon

*Consumer Comment: Amber & Regina: Please Address Serge & Cynthia's Concerns

*Consumer Comment: Intensified Real Estate Training AKA Millionaire U

*Consumer Comment: BUY THE BOOK!

*Consumer Comment: DISHONEST AND OVERPRICED ..WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING

*Consumer Comment: Here we go again... How long will this battle of wits hold up? I am wasting WAY Too much time on this debate.

*Consumer Comment: Whitney has provided my husband and I with what we paid for

*Consumer Comment: Just Attended the 3-day Cash Flow Seminar (Russ Whitney) 3 day "boot camp"

*Consumer Suggestion: What?!?!?!? Land in Cape Coral (where Whitney operates) is RED HOT right now

*Consumer Comment: I am intrigued, Dan

*Consumer Comment: Russ Whitney Intensive Training.. something is not right

*Consumer Suggestion: Making money?? Whitney is the head of a corporation that has NEVER made a profit, publicly traded company, so all this info is available.

*Consumer Comment: That's right Gorden. Whitney has switched from making money in real estate to running an information business.

*Consumer Comment: Whitney building wealth, question for people who found success in this program

*Consumer Comment: The flaming does not help people to make an informed decision...

*Consumer Suggestion: RE investing is great, but you have to carefully discern what you hear

*Consumer Suggestion: News for Amber

*Consumer Suggestion: News for Amber

*Consumer Comment: Another attempt at perspective

*Consumer Comment: Dan -

*Consumer Suggestion: Not all the facts

*Consumer Suggestion: Not all the facts

*Consumer Suggestion: Not all the facts

*Consumer Suggestion: Not all the facts

*Consumer Comment: Responding to Dan, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

*Consumer Suggestion: Just the facts If this is not a scam I ask someone to give some details to prove it.

*Consumer Comment: Not a scam!!!

*Consumer Comment: My experience at the 3-day workshop

*Consumer Comment: Details Please, Carol... you're not a shill, so prove it

*Consumer Comment: Carol is a SHILL!

*Consumer Comment: I paid the $2,000 - Here is what I got.

*Consumer Comment: not a shill!!!

*Consumer Comment: Be Careful with Russ Whitney/Wealth Intelligent's Training

*Consumer Comment: Worked for me

*Consumer Comment: 'Shiling' is ILLEGAL - But The FTC Won't Stop It

*Consumer Comment: A Shill Of A Hun

*Consumer Comment: Whitney supporters or employees

*UPDATE Employee: this is not a get rich quick scheme!!

*Consumer Comment: In today's society, you must be careful in any dealings with ANY person or persons claiming to have "the answer" to your financial woes.

*Consumer Suggestion: Stop the Russ Whitney Rip Off

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STAY AWAY FROM RUSS WHITNEY - THIS GUY IS CROOKED....

What ever this guy is selling [fraudlently pushing], stay away,
he makes his money mostly by trying to act like an expert,with no college education. His website is wonderful, you would think he was an expert. He is good at promising people a money making real estate system that does not work. He walks off with the cash, and you loose your money....He tries to sell you more...It happened to me...his acting like an expert is only part the course! And as for the OTC stock update on his company, how about Russ....STOP ROBBING PEOPLE, and be a decent person and give people their money back!!! Then your stock would be valued at nothing!

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/21/2002 12:00 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Whitney-Education-Group-Inc/Cape-Coral-Florida/Russ-Whitney-Scam-Alert-Whitney-Education-Group-Cape-Coral-Florida-14776. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I worked for them also. Horrible!!!

AUTHOR: Incognito - (United States of America)

 

I only worked for them for about 3 months. I had to stop. I could not continue to lie to people and give them a false sense of hope. I watched as hundreds of people spent the rent money in hopes of being successful in real-estate. It sucked. The people running it are blood suckers. They would take the last dollar out of the kids piggy bank to make quota. I watched as hundreds of people held up there hands as the speaker asked How many of you have a 700 credit score,,,if so,,go to this table over here. Now how many have a 650 credit score and so on and so on. All of that info was taken down on paper as a strategy to go after the people with the high scores. At some point I said I cant lie to these people. I was let go as soon as we reached Cape Coral. I still have the complete set of training CDs. I have a complete set of Speaker training CDs on what to say and when to say it. What a crook. I am ashamed to say I helped that company hurt people.
I apologize to all.
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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Whitney Education

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I worked for this company for 11 months, and I heard MANY success stories from students who had purchased advanced classes. HOWEVER working for this company is awful!!! They treat their employees terribly! I was let go with out reason and a week later they fired my fiance for attendence, because he missed a lot of work staying home with sick kids. In short the product is good if you aply yourself, but DO NOT work for this company!
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#3 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Whitney Education

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I worked for this company for 11 months, and I heard MANY success stories from students who had purchased advanced classes. HOWEVER working for this company is awful!!! They treat their employees terribly! I was let go with out reason and a week later they fired my fiance for attendence, because he missed a lot of work staying home with sick kids. In short the product is good if you aply yourself, but DO NOT work for this company!
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#4 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Whitney Education

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I worked for this company for 11 months, and I heard MANY success stories from students who had purchased advanced classes. HOWEVER working for this company is awful!!! They treat their employees terribly! I was let go with out reason and a week later they fired my fiance for attendence, because he missed a lot of work staying home with sick kids. In short the product is good if you aply yourself, but DO NOT work for this company!
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#5 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Whitney Education

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I worked for this company for 11 months, and I heard MANY success stories from students who had purchased advanced classes. HOWEVER working for this company is awful!!! They treat their employees terribly! I was let go with out reason and a week later they fired my fiance for attendence, because he missed a lot of work staying home with sick kids. In short the product is good if you aply yourself, but DO NOT work for this company!
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#6 Consumer Comment

With a grain of salt

AUTHOR: Jeff - (U.S.A.)

I attended the free seminar many years ago. I think it was only two days at that time. Being way too poor (cheap) to spring for the full seminar I decided this information must be available somewhere for less. I got Russ's book (I think I may have bought it). I also got some books at the library, most notably from Robert Allen and William Nickerson. Below are some details on what I have accomplished so you know I'm not a "schill".

In 1992 I borrowed $6,500.00 from my 401k and bought a 4-plex in Denver where I live for $75,000. He wanted $80,000 for it, but accepted my price and carried financing on the balance. I also hunted for and found a real estate broker who would be willing to loan me the commission he was to receive on the sale. This amount also went to the seller as part of his down payment. As a side note, it is amazing to me how many brokers would rather have 100% of nothing than getting paid over the course of a couple years. At the time I was doing slightly better than breaking even. I still own the building: it is now worth around $300,000 and nets me about $1,000 a month. This is after refinancing it to buy some other property I purchased later.

Later that year, with a partner I bought a 4-plex in Colorado Springs for $90,000 where we assumed the note and the seller agreed to put $6,000 in escrow which we would receive after refinancing the FHA note. He was a serious don't wanter because the note was at 11% and he had a negative cash flow of around $400.00 a month. Within three days, we found a leak on the output of the water heater which cut our expenses by about $300.00 and within six months we raised rents and refinanced the not for 8% which gave us an $800.00 per month cash flow. We then sold it for $138,000.

In 1994, I found another much larger 4-plex for 150,000. I offered full price with $10,000 down which also came from my 401k, plus my favorite brokers commission if he would carry the balance. He agreed with the stipulation that the interest rate would increase every five years by 2% starting at 10%. I sold that property a little less than two years later for $254,000. I then went into business with the profits and lost it all.

In 2000, I refinanced the first property above and pulled about $80,000 out and bought three 4-plexes in Mesa Arizona. All three were pretty much identical for $160,000 each. Because I put 20% down, I got a bank loan with very good rates and had about $500.00 cash flow each month on all three. I sold these buildings about three years later for $219,000 each.

I took the profit from these and bought a 47 unit building also in Phoenix for $2,160,000. I learned an important lesson from that one: most property managers are rip offs so only buy property where you can manage it yourself. I walked away from that deal with my tail between my legs and a $60,000 interest only note with a 2008 balloon.

In 2003 I bought a duplex and 4-plex from the same seller for $150,000 and $264,000 respectively. I offered him his full asking price with a concession of 5% due back to me at closing. I then got 95% loans on both making it a nothing down deal with the exception of closing costs which came to about $10,000. I had about $100.00 cash flow on the duplex and maybe $200.00 on the 4-plex when full.

I guess the moral of the story is that it's definitely possible with the info you can find. It is important to find a broker who will carry his commission for a couple reasons. His commission will partially offset the sellers commission that he has to pay his listing broker. If you don't have a broker of your own, you will miss the 95% of property for sale that you think you can't buy because of the listing commission. Also, when you first start out and are scared to death of talking to sellers and sounding like you don't know a thing, which you really don't, you have the broker who usually does know what's going on and can do your talking for you. The other thing you can do which I also did is to become a broker yourself. That way you can borrow the commission from yourself and never have to pay it back.

Take care and good luck
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#7 Consumer Comment

Appreciation RipoffReport, you're the best educational site

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

RipoffReport, you're the best educational site I ever stumbled. You have saved me the frustration and anger worth more than dollars can amount. Look at these scams out there posted your site! Wow! makes me wonder what kind of civilized brotherhood loving community we live in. On the flip, we all need to make money to survive, especially when we have a family to feed. In this dog eat dog world, I've been at the bottom of the barrel looking up, wondering where our next meal will come from. But is giving the soul, is worth giving up for money? How can these con artists say the blesing at the dinner table when knowingly the money paying for the food on the table is dirty money? These get rich schemes looked inticing when chips were down. I almost fell as a victim, but I stood firm and ignored these schemes. Landing on a good job, and staying away from the get rich scams, I was able to slowy get out of debt by bring a pay check home and saving as much as possible for a rainy day. Researching the web, I accidently found your site, and thanks to you (RipoffReport) you're my hero. It's some what amusing to me to see all of these con artists at work. But soon or later, they will get caught in there own game. For those poor souls whom been rip off, an educated consumer is less likely to get scamed. Please keep growing your database as I frequently
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#8 Consumer Comment

Appreciation RipoffReport, you're the best educational site

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

RipoffReport, you're the best educational site I ever stumbled. You have saved me the frustration and anger worth more than dollars can amount. Look at these scams out there posted your site! Wow! makes me wonder what kind of civilized brotherhood loving community we live in. On the flip, we all need to make money to survive, especially when we have a family to feed. In this dog eat dog world, I've been at the bottom of the barrel looking up, wondering where our next meal will come from. But is giving the soul, is worth giving up for money? How can these con artists say the blesing at the dinner table when knowingly the money paying for the food on the table is dirty money? These get rich schemes looked inticing when chips were down. I almost fell as a victim, but I stood firm and ignored these schemes. Landing on a good job, and staying away from the get rich scams, I was able to slowy get out of debt by bring a pay check home and saving as much as possible for a rainy day. Researching the web, I accidently found your site, and thanks to you (RipoffReport) you're my hero. It's some what amusing to me to see all of these con artists at work. But soon or later, they will get caught in there own game. For those poor souls whom been rip off, an educated consumer is less likely to get scamed. Please keep growing your database as I frequently
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Say No To Imbreeding! Free Real Estate training? Are we getting desperate? LOL.

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Just visited Wuss Whitney's website and now he's claiming to be offering "free" Real Estate training. Yeeeah!

.....And to think that his programs were scams when he was offering it to total strangers for just the amount one could spare on his or her credit card. $15,000.00???? $28,000.00??? ROF & LMFAO. MY F%CK1NG A$$!

Free Real Estate training? Are we getting desperate? LOL.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#10 Consumer Suggestion

Can't Buy Believers!

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

John Beck, Wuss Whitney, Donkey Lapre, Carlton "sheet" head, Bean Ravioli (femme boy), Tom Vu (grotesque baboon), William J. Mckorkle (jail bait), along with the many other fraudsters claiming to be selling legitimate "wealth building" programs all have one thing in common.

They're all con artists just trying to buy believers. These program peddlers severely lack any proof of their program's being legitimate. They are totally unwilling to disclose the true stats regarding their program.

That's because they make fraudulent claims and are totally unable to live up to them. Their "success stories" (testimonials) are unsubstantiated and they're peddling their programs by means of deceptive advertising and bogus salespitches.

No one in this universe is selling legitimate "wealth building" programs to total strangers, that have the potential to earn them thousands in profits for only $39.99 + S&H.

These offers are all fraudulent! Just come ons to accumulate a list of victims to contact, along with their contact info. The many unacknowledged and unresolved reports regarding these fraudulent businesses and their offers are not just mere coincidences.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

P.S. I am the only one in the universe selling legitimate "mentoring" programs. Contact me and have your credit card handy, so I can scam you out of thaousands, just like these thugs have been doing for decades.
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#11 Consumer Suggestion

Attempting To Infringe On Peoples Right To Free Speech Are We?

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Does this guy live for frivilous litigation or what? Everytime I check, he's suing someone new. I'm talking about people of major influence.

Reputable people that have the ability to spread the word regarding his scam. Publishers, Real Estate professionals, consumer advocates, etc, etc. Is this an attempt to "shut people up?"

Is this the kind of "guru" one should want to conduct business with had he been able to PROVE his program worthy and legitimate?

NO, NO, NO, I know what some of you shills are thinking. Save it!!!

I'm sorry to say, Infomercials, unproven testimonials, unsubstantiated claims, paid BBB memberships and merchant accounts says or proves absolutely nothing about a program, it's endorser or his reputation.

Money can purchase all sorts of meaningless advertising and also assist scam artists with setting up traps, but money by itself, can never shape ones reputation for being honest, worthy, or even genuine.

Until next time, take care cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#12 Consumer Comment

do the research - please !

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

After reading all the posted comments and $$$ involed I suggest just going to your local library and check out books on buying and selling real estate. I am sure it will cost less than 2 grand or however much you gave to Whitney.

Just a thought.

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#13 Consumer Suggestion

shills possess very low self esteems and are often just trying to win brownie points from their employers.

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

NOTICE: My "mentoring" programs are not genuine and have been posted for entertainment purposes only. I just want shills to realize how stupid they sound when attempting to convince the public of the $h!t their shoveling.

Understand that shills possess very low self esteems and are often just trying to win brownie points from their employers. Shills will even go as far as to literally bend over sexually. Desperate for money are we? LOL.

I personally worked with many of these fudge packers myself. Shills cry the most, but are the least willing and able to do anything about what it is their crying about.

They hear talks regarding union representation and turn on you like a bad habbit. Shills will immediately take the company's side. Bunch of a$$ kissers, brown nosers and fudge packers.

Shills possess the same feeble mentality of battered women. Always complaining, but constantly returning to and deliberately placing themselves in bad situations. Is it their fault? No!

Low self esteem is to blame. Battered women, like shills, often feel as though they will be rewarded for their deeds.

The funny thing about shills however, is that the only thing they often receive from their fraud employers, are loads from their d!ck$. LOL at shills.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#14 Consumer Suggestion

Are Shills Able To Hear Themselves?

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

WARNING: Wuss Whitneys programs are all fraudulent! The onus is now upon these crooks to start proving the legitimacy and worthiness of their programs. They can't and they won't!

They are totally unable to prove, that even 1% of all who enroll into their programs become successful.

My telephone sex "mentoring" program however, is the real deal. I've even provided testimonials from a few of my top students.

For only $39.99 + shipping and handling, you'll receive a manual (porn mag), which clearly illustrates todays favored sexual positions.

For whatever you can spare on your credit cards, you may even receive one on one telephone "mentoring" with my personal staff.

1. Homosexuality topics: Featuring Bean Raviolli, Donkey Lapre and Wuss Whitney.

2. Incest related topics: Featuring Mike Evans from the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute.

3. Abstenence: Featuring Tom Vu (The Asian Ape). I'm sorry, It's not nice to insult apes.

4. Jail bird sex: Featuring William J. Mckorkle.

5. Masturbation: Featuring John Beck.

6. Night life: Featuring Barbie, her sister Bambi and brother Ken.

Don't worry, I have every topic covered.

ALTERNATIVE MENTORING PROGRAMS:

1. How to shill without being so obvious or even worst yet, sounding like a total retard.

2. Bussing tables

3. Singing

4. Dancing

5. Driving

TESTIMONIAL: Thank you very much Mike Evans from the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute for showing us the light. We especially appreciate you taking time out from your busy schedule and showing us how great sex can be with our own sons. We will definitely practice your wonderful teachings. Love always, Kayla, Margie, Rose, and Samantha. Caring Mothers. Salt Lake City, UT.

And the list goes on. Unlimited number of Mentoring programs you see? Sure I can't prove the legitimacy or worthiness of my "mentoring" programs, but what the heck, neither can all the other "mentoring" programs which exist.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#15 Consumer Suggestion

More Mentoring Programs For Shill Barbie.

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

I'm sorry Barbie. I admit I lied. I was only trying to scam you. I honestly do have a mortgage license and an inactive Real Estate License, but my real area of "mentoring" expertise is in the retail and restaurant businesses.

Hey, at least I'm an honest crook unlike them weasels John Beck and Wuss Whitney. Are you still interested in my "mentoring" programs?

REID'S MENTORING PROGRAMS:

1. Restaurant

2. Retail

3. Everything sex excluding homosexuality and beastiality.

4. Real Estate

5. Scam 101 (one of the more popular programs). I've learned this from the fraudulent John Beck Mentoring Institute.

6. Pyramid building

7. Own and operate your own NFL franchise

8. How to get shill Barbie to agree to enroll into my program and run away with her money.

If there's any topic, that you're interested in and I'm unfamiliar with, please let me know. I will research it and still be willing to "mentor" you on the subject.

Contact me and have your credit card handy.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#16 Consumer Suggestion

Having Fun With Barbie Shill Doll.

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Yeeah! We all believe Barbie don't we? Is that her real name or what? Is her sister Bambi? LOL. Hey Barbie, I am a successful entrepreneur. I am not a shill for Wuss Whitney.

Please purchase my program. I will "mentor" you to success. I will "mentor" you to be the best frigin Barbie you can be.

All for only what your credit cards will allow. Please believe me when I say I'm an honest person. I know that my claims are unproven, but you have to believe me Barbie.

Disregard the fact that I'm a convicted felon. I want to "mentor" you to making upwards of $15,000.00 a month or more. You have to purchase my program.

JUST A FEW OF MY UNPROVEN AND UNSUBSTANTIATED TESTIMONIALS.

1. I purchased Reid's system a little over a year ago and boy let me tell you! Every sexual position imaginable! I am now making more money walking the streets than I ever had. Thanks to his wonderful "mentoring" program! Cassie, NY

2. So easy to understand. I now own the largest burger franchise. Ronald Redhead, South Bend, IA.

3. Thanks to Reid's Real Estate expertise, I am now scamming folks all over the world and from every walk of life. Love ya! Wuss Whitney, Incest trailor park.

4. Thanks Reid for everything. I now understand, that it makes no sense to shill for a fraudulent company. It's just that I possess a low self esteem and wanted Wuss and associates to like me.
P.S. I'm really not as successful as I claim. Barbie Doll, Outer Space.

Are you not yet convinced Barbie?

HERE'S WHAT YOU'LL RECEIVE WHEN YOU ORDER MY FRAUDULENT PROGRAM.

1. I'll let you choose from more than ten different "mentoring" programs. I am well versed in many areas.

2. The cost to you will be determined by what you have "available on your credit card. You may prefer to bend over for a discount.

3. You'll receive 3 full months of telephone "mentoring" from my staff, which have been hand picked and mentored by me personally.

4. Think about it! 12 full sessions by the unproven master himself! Self proclaimed guruman!

I know, I know what you're thinking. Right about now, you're saying to yourself, what have I done do deserve such a great offer?

Well Barbie, you were born. This may very well be the last time you're granted such a wonderful offer.

Remember, disregard the fact, that I have proven absolutely nothing about my program and let's put my felony convictions behind us. Why would I lie about such an offer?

My programs have a really high success rate. Please, please purchase my "mentoring" program. It could really boost your night job and rapidly increase your clientel.

Contact me through a rebuttal and have your credit cards handy.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#17 Consumer Suggestion

Wuss Whitney Report.

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Wuss Whitney is a phoney and his programs are scams! This trailor park "result of incest" mutha f%cka is the most sue happy person in the world.

I would love to get together with either John T. Reed and or the publisher of Mazu publishing (both presently being sued by Wuss Whitney and assist in bringing this con artist and his fraudulent activities to light.

Go to John T. Reeds website to view a huge
$h!tload of links, regarding Wuss Whitney, his scams and prior misdemeanor and felony convictions.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#18 Consumer Suggestion

Wuss Whitney Report.

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Wuss Whitney is a phoney and his programs are scams! This trailor park "result of incest" mutha f%cka is the most sue happy person in the world.

I would love to get together with either John T. Reed and or the publisher of Mazu publishing (both presently being sued by Wuss Whitney and assist in bringing this con artist and his fraudulent activities to light.

Go to John T. Reeds website to view a huge
$h!tload of links, regarding Wuss Whitney, his scams and prior misdemeanor and felony convictions.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#19 Consumer Suggestion

Wuss Whitney Report.

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

Wuss Whitney is a phoney and his programs are scams! This trailor park "result of incest" mutha f%cka is the most sue happy person in the world.

I would love to get together with either John T. Reed and or the publisher of Mazu publishing (both presently being sued by Wuss Whitney and assist in bringing this con artist and his fraudulent activities to light.

Go to John T. Reeds website to view a huge
$h!tload of links, regarding Wuss Whitney, his scams and prior misdemeanor and felony convictions.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#20 Consumer Suggestion

Prove Something About Your Fraudulent Program You Little Biiach!

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

WARNING: This maggot is going to be in Honolulu sometime next week. DO NOT attend his seminar. His income claims are unsubstantiated, his Real Estate "weath building" workshops are unproven and flat out scams.

How do I know this?

1. Why in the world would anyone sell his or her "wealth building" strategies to total strangers for less than the income potential claimed?

2. His program uses a fraudulent Infomercial and deceptive newspaper AD to market his bogus seminar.

3. Testimonials are unsubstantiated and unproven, income claims are unverified and unsubstantiated, sales pitches are unsubstantiated and deceptive.

4. In a nutshell, his entire system is UNPROVEN!

5. This "result of two couisins having engaged in sexual intercourse" is nothing but a f%ck!ng con! Si$$y that is notorius for taking people behind closed doors and attempting to extort monies.

6. Unable to back up any of his fraudulent claims.

7. Selling bags of gold (the dream), delivering bags of $hit (nothing.) The many unacknowledged and unresolved complaints regarding "mentoring" programs are ABSOLUTE proof of this jacka$$es program being nothing but a scam.

8. Why does the cost of his program fluctuate tremendously from victim to victim? Is the information that much more valuable for a few thousands more? More motivational coaching perhaps?

9. Why all the hidden disclaimers in his fraudulent Infomercial burried deep within fine print?

10. Why is this clown unwilling to come forward in a public forum and have a full blown disscusion/interview with his victims. John Beck the "attorney" wouldn't even agree to this. LOL.

11. Why is he blowing off reports regarding his fraudulent seminars and workshops?

12. Where is this imbreeds team of hired shills?
I can't wait to hear from a team of genetic imbreeds. I love nothing more than hearing a bunch of EXCUSES as to why they believe what they're peddling is legitimate.

13. Hypes himself up on his Infomercial and website. Wants to give people a false impression, that he's a family man all good and wholesome, religious and a bunch of other nonsense.

His actions prove otherwise. this mutha f%cka has no conscience. He's a f%ck!ng phoney and I invite him to contact me so, that we can talk about my rantings/postings.

I would like to also give him the opportunity to pick the time and place, courtroom, where this phoney cries like the si$$y that he is and attempts to quiet people (John T. REED), or a public park where we can talk about his program alone as all real men would.

Want to take it one step further? Video taped discussion/interview, where he is able to fully disclose everything about his program? Of course not, didn't think so!

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

P.S. Interested in the full story on what happens should one fall victim to the Real Estate Mentoring scam? Contact me through this website and I will respond as soon as time permits.
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#21 Consumer Suggestion

Just Another Unproven Scam!

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

WARNING: Real Estate Mentoring courses are nonsense and unproven. Some things are certain however, and they are:

1. Infomercials are deceptive and misleading.

2. Infomercials have many disclaimers burried deep within the much fine print.

3. Any and all income claims in Infomercials are unsubstantiated and unproven.

4. Sales pitches from these fraudsters are unsubstantiated and unproven.

5. All testimonials by "success stories" are unsubstantiated and unproven.

6. Infomercials in general are unsubstantiated and unproven.

7. Real Estate professionals would have nothing to gain by sharing their "wealth building" strategies to total strangers.

8. This shmuck has a bad reputation and is notorious for taking people "behind closed doors" and frivilously suing them in attempt to shut them up. I have news for this q***r!

9. Hopefully this q***r will someday reunite with the rest of his bend over buddies behind bars, John Beck, Carlton "Sheet" head, Tom Vu (world's ugliest baboon), Donkey Lapre, Bean Raviolli (faggy boy), and the rest of the rat pack.

10. A legitimate business can and definitely would be willing and able to prove their program genuine in the public eye.

11. A legitimate business would never allow this many complaints to be accumulated against them and would definitely not allow this many complaints to go unacknowledged and unresolved in the public eye.

12. A legitimate business would definitely be willing to come forward in the public eye and disclose everything regarding their products and or services.

13. What's the success to failure ratio of this dweebs' Real Estate Workshop? Where's the f%ck!ng proof?

14. Real Estate programs are all scams! These so called "gurus" are totally unable to stand behind any of their claims.

15. These so called "gurus" earn enormous profits from the sales of their bogus programs. Mentoring total strangers to use their "success strategies" would be preposterous and detrimental to their own livelihoods.

16. This con artist gives a false impression of family man with a moral character and strong religious background, etc, etc, but his actions and reputation says otherwise.

17. I whole heartedly believe, that this Jackass will someday stiff the wrong person. The more times he makes his way out to Hawaii, the better the chances of him stiffing that wrong person.

The heading for this baboon's fraudulent Ad reads:

Millionare Swears Under Oath He Can Show Any Honolulu Area Resident How To Build Wealth In A Single Year!

The key word in this fraudulent AD is "can!"

Heck, even I "can" teach others to build wealth! Question is "will" he?

I would like to invite this monkey to have a full blown discussion with me on this website. I'm sure there are many victims of his fraudulent activities, that either have questions or would like to request a refund.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

P.S. Any media company that may be interested in investigating and reporting a story on Real Estate mentoring scams, feel free to contact me through this website.
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#22 Consumer Suggestion

If This Program Is Not A Scam, PROVE IT!

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

WARNING: I don't give a f%ck what anyone says, this imbreeds programs, seminars, workshops, etc, etc are all scams!

1. There are no such thing as legitimate Real Estate mentoring programs, seminars, workshops, etc, etc.

2. These jerk offs are merely profiting from the sales of the bogus courses.

3. If their programs were really worth what they claim, why in the world would they sell the "wealth building" information to total strangers?

Even my own parents weren't concerned about my success as this "result of incest" is. Trailor trash mutha f%cka!

4. Why in the world would anyone agree to peddle the garbage, as opposed to participating in the programs themselves?

5. Why does the cost of these Real Estate programs differ from victim to victim?

6. Is the information that much better for a thousand dollars more? LMAO

7. The cost for John Beck's Mentoring scam is directly proportional to ones "available credit", which literally means ones "credit limit."

Yeeeeah! too bad the value of world class automobiles weren't measured and determined using this same method. LMAO at yet another "result of incest." Trailor trash mutha f%cka!

8. If his programs were legitimate, why hasn't anyone from the company been willing to come forward in the public eye to resolve the many complaints?

9. Why not come forward in the public eye and just lay it all out in the open?

10. Why not fully disclose the exact terms and conditions of the program?

Save the Infomercials, unproven success stories (testimonials), unsubstantiated claims and fraudulent sales pitches for a rainy day. None of these say or prove a d**n thing.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#23 Consumer Suggestion

If This Program Is Not A Scam, PROVE IT!

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

WARNING: I don't give a f%ck what anyone says, this imbreeds programs, seminars, workshops, etc, etc are all scams!

1. There are no such thing as legitimate Real Estate mentoring programs, seminars, workshops, etc, etc.

2. These jerk offs are merely profiting from the sales of the bogus courses.

3. If their programs were really worth what they claim, why in the world would they sell the "wealth building" information to total strangers?

Even my own parents weren't concerned about my success as this "result of incest" is. Trailor trash mutha f%cka!

4. Why in the world would anyone agree to peddle the garbage, as opposed to participating in the programs themselves?

5. Why does the cost of these Real Estate programs differ from victim to victim?

6. Is the information that much better for a thousand dollars more? LMAO

7. The cost for John Beck's Mentoring scam is directly proportional to ones "available credit", which literally means ones "credit limit."

Yeeeeah! too bad the value of world class automobiles weren't measured and determined using this same method. LMAO at yet another "result of incest." Trailor trash mutha f%cka!

8. If his programs were legitimate, why hasn't anyone from the company been willing to come forward in the public eye to resolve the many complaints?

9. Why not come forward in the public eye and just lay it all out in the open?

10. Why not fully disclose the exact terms and conditions of the program?

Save the Infomercials, unproven success stories (testimonials), unsubstantiated claims and fraudulent sales pitches for a rainy day. None of these say or prove a d**n thing.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#24 Consumer Suggestion

If This Program Is Not A Scam, PROVE IT!

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

WARNING: I don't give a f%ck what anyone says, this imbreeds programs, seminars, workshops, etc, etc are all scams!

1. There are no such thing as legitimate Real Estate mentoring programs, seminars, workshops, etc, etc.

2. These jerk offs are merely profiting from the sales of the bogus courses.

3. If their programs were really worth what they claim, why in the world would they sell the "wealth building" information to total strangers?

Even my own parents weren't concerned about my success as this "result of incest" is. Trailor trash mutha f%cka!

4. Why in the world would anyone agree to peddle the garbage, as opposed to participating in the programs themselves?

5. Why does the cost of these Real Estate programs differ from victim to victim?

6. Is the information that much better for a thousand dollars more? LMAO

7. The cost for John Beck's Mentoring scam is directly proportional to ones "available credit", which literally means ones "credit limit."

Yeeeeah! too bad the value of world class automobiles weren't measured and determined using this same method. LMAO at yet another "result of incest." Trailor trash mutha f%cka!

8. If his programs were legitimate, why hasn't anyone from the company been willing to come forward in the public eye to resolve the many complaints?

9. Why not come forward in the public eye and just lay it all out in the open?

10. Why not fully disclose the exact terms and conditions of the program?

Save the Infomercials, unproven success stories (testimonials), unsubstantiated claims and fraudulent sales pitches for a rainy day. None of these say or prove a d**n thing.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.
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#25 Consumer Suggestion

My Take On This "Free" Workshop.

AUTHOR: Reid - (U.S.A.)

Hey there Everyone,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

This MUTHA F%CKA is now in town. I would like to warn the general public to stay away from his "free seminar", for the only purpose of his "free seminar" is to sell gullible people on his program or workshops.

It's a big scam! John T. Reed is absolutely correct about this scum bag. This man is a
f%ck!ng genetic imbreed like the rest of them. He makes a living stiffing innocent people.

This monkey profits by frivilously suing others, taking advantage of homeowners, that loose their properties due to unfortunate circumstances, and peddling unproven "wealth building" garbage to the general public.

QUESTIONS:

1. Why is this result of incest selling his "wealth building" information and strategies to total strangers?

2. Before getting one to enroll into his program, is this dufus willing and able to provide absolute PROOF regarding his so called "success stories?"

3. Willing and able to provide absolute PROOF of the exact success to failure ratio of his program? If no, why not?

These genetic imbreeds seem to have no problem peddling their garbage, but have much difficulty standing behind their fraudulent claims.

4. Why does the cost of his workshops vary tremendously? Does one learn how to earn bigger profit's by shelling out a few more thousands? LOL.

5. Are there any guarantees? Now don't be stupid and assume I mean income guarantees. I mean any guarantees, that what's being shoveled will be delivered? John Beck the "attorney" is selling bags of gold, but delivering bags of $h!t.

6. Can this monkey refer interested takers to complaints or reports, that have been resolved in the public eye?

This baboon's AD reads: Millionaire Swears Under Oath He Can Show Any Honolulu Area Resident How To Build Wealth In A Single Year!

1. I am broke as a mutha f%ck!ng joke, but would Still Swear Under Oath, that I Can "Show" Any Honolulu Resident How To Build Wealth In A Single Year! This statement says or proves absolutely nothing. Shady!

2. John Beck is an attorney, but still rips people off, therefore, when someone says they "swear under oath" to something, it means or proves absolutely nothing.

As a matter of fact, when someone seems adamant about wanting to share his or her "wealth building" strategies to total strangers, it should be looked upon as desperation to further perpetuate their scam.

This baboon's AD also reads: PROOF THAT IT WORKS.
Doctors, lawyers, postal workers, professionals and trade workers, polititians, housewives, policemen, and opportunity seekers from all walks of life have benefited for years from this exclusive, one of a kind, hands on training.

He forgot one thing, to furnish proof! Testimonials don't say or prove anything about ones character or their "wealth building" program. Why the f%ck should anyone just take the words of total strangers and printed material?

This baboon's AD also reads: Coming To The Honolulu Area March 7-10 Call Now 1-800-916-0011 for exact times and locations. SEATING IS LIMITED, so remember to CALL NOW and register early.

Gee, had no problem printing all the unsubstantiated claims and unproven testimonials, but find it a problem to provide the exact locations and times of the events?

This is an absolute clear indication of a company attempting to lure people in.

2. Could it possibly be, that the exact locations and times have not been determined yet?

3. Could it be, that he wanted to keep the event private, as to not be disrupted by all, that have been scammed by him and his bogus workshops in the past?

I welcome any and all shills and bend over cronies of this scam to come forward and address this rebuttal in a public forum.

I have many more questions, but need to ask them at a later time. Do not attempt to address, nor answer any of my questions with excuses. I will make you feel very uncomfortable, thus slowly but shurely have you uncover your own scam for the world to see.

If you are a shill, don't waste your time trying to defend this scam with excuses! We need businesses to start coming forward with answers to our questions, not more unproven "success stories" who possess low self esteems.

Until next time, take care Everyone cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

P.S. Any and media companies, that may be interested in a story regarding the Real Estate Mentoring Scam, feel free to contact me through a rebuttal and I will respond as soon as time permits.
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#26 Consumer Comment

Thanks to all of your posts, I will not be attending.

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I recently signed up for a free Russ Whitney seminar. I've been scammed by other wealth-building schemes in the past, so I thought I would research the company before attending. Thanks to all of your posts, I will not be attending.

Amber's posts did not help Whitney's cause at all. Her comments made me realize that I did not need this program. I also realized that I already know most of the so called "secrets".
I earn a modest $27,000 per year as a construction worker and am studying for my real-estate licensure. My new bride and I just purchased a home with no money down and recieved cash back at closing. I had no credit, and my wife had a mediochre credit score when we made an offer on this home. The home is a two-flat, but had never been used as a two-family dwelling. We now rent the upstairs and are able to make most of the mortgage payment with the rental income. It costs us less (per month) to own a home than what we previously paid in rent, AND we get huge tax write-offs. Our credit score is climbing. All of these things were simple and easy to do, and none of them are secrets. If you want a secret, here it is: Most wealth-building programs are very profitable, but only for the scammers, not the "scammees". Real-world knowledge is free for the taking.

Looking at the Whitney success rates made me realize that I'm actually better off than the vast majority of Russ' "students", in spite of the fact that I had no training when I purchased my home.

Paying for the real-estate training offered by your state's realtor's association is a far better deal, even if you don't plan on being a sales associate. You will learn all about different types of financing, laws that govern real-estate transactions, repairs/remodels that will give you the best return for your money, etc. My training only costed me $179.00, and it came through a state-regulated association.
I can see how getting started on the road to real estate wealth could be difficult, if you've already spent hundreds or even thousands on Whitney's programs. If you save your money and combine it with common sense, you'll be much better off.
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#27 Consumer Comment

Put it in perspective!

AUTHOR: Mark - (U.S.A.)

I am a residential remodeler and am planning on getting into realestate at some level. I am as skeptical as they come and don't believe in get rich quick schemes or multi-level marketing of any kind. I was persuaded by my partner to attend the 4hr pitch. I have to say that the info was very interresting and made sense. I was intriqued. My partner and I did split the $1000 cost the media package and agreed to attend the 3 day boot camp.

I was very impressed with the amount of information that was presented in the three days (I took tons of notes). When you break it down it was well worth the $$$. It breaks down, for two peaople, to $167 per day per person for the coarse. I thought that I knew what I needed to know to get going in Realestate. I know brokers, appraisers, RE Agents and have family that have dabbled in Realestate. The corse brought up many points that I would have never thought of and I identified some very costly mistakes that family members made in the past. I did not buy any further packages or the software package. Although I think that at $1600 for the software and legal forms was a steal. (I have estimating software that cost me more than $4000. The fact that they asked people to put more on their credit cards to buy these Advanced Training Coarses than most of the people in attenddance made in a year, did not sit well with me. I do feel that at $167 a day, it was well worth the info as well as the questions it raised. I figure that one mistake in realestate, at any level, could cost me a heck of a lot more than that. Russ Whitney may or may not be a crook, but I feel that at the "Boot Camp" level, I received good value for my money.
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#28 Consumer Comment

3-Day Training Seminar

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

I just attended the 3-day training seminar in St. Louis. I've spent the last hour reading through this post and I would encourage anyone to read John Reed's web postings on this matter at johntreed.com.

I invested (I use the term "invested" quite loosely) the $99 for the three day course from at a motivational seminar I recently attended. I went the first day and did not attend the other two days when I realized I was being scammed. Did I get some information? Sure, otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell the big stuff. Could I go out and buy a house tomorrow? Absolutely not. Everyone's comments here are interesting, but what concerns me are the comments made in these posts about "you don't have what it takes to be successful," or "you have to work hard in order to make it work." I, for one, am a successful business executive. I do not have a college degree (working on it now). How did I do it? I busted my tail for years to prove myself is how. As a result, I'll probably be able to retire financially independent around the age of 50. But working hard doesn't mean you succeed. I have many friends who have worked their tails off just like I did and fallen flat on their faces. Why? Because that's reality.

I would also ask anyone who is considering really using this guy's stuff to consider the ethical implications. Doesn't something just bother you about using other people's unfortunate financing situations to make money? Forget what they tell you about creating a win-win situation. It just doesn't add up. If you can sleep at night with your Jag in the garage knowing that some poor shmoe barely escaped Bankruptcy because he helped you finance it with a "win-win" situation, more power to you.

I'd rather stick to selling lemonade on the side of the road.

Good luck to you all.
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#29 Consumer Comment

Blake pretty controversial

AUTHOR: Regina - (U.S.A.)

Blake,

I know this particular thread of this site has gotten pretty controversial, and that can get pretty confusing. I have no idea if the money you spent already is refundable, if that is what you are looking for, you should probably call the company. If you decide to go ahead and take the three day training, you are one up on everybody else there...well, actually, several up. Here is what you now know walking in, that they won't know:

1. There are a few people out there claiming to be doing well with Whitney strategies, and you have to be willing to work for it if you want to be one of them.

2. They will try and sell you advanced training, and it is very expensive. I think the smallest package offered is now around $10,000, and they go up to over $35,000. When they tell these prices on the second day of training, you will see plenty of shocked faces in the room around you, because those are HIGH prices.

3. On the first day, they will teach you how to get ALOT of credit. They do it so you can actually pay for the training they are offering, but let me tell you, when they teach you how to do that stuff to the credit card companies to get higher limits with lower interest..IT WORKS!

4. Bring a lot of paper and be prepared to take pages and pages of notes. You have paid good money to be there, and they will teach you alot of stuff. The real problem with what they teach is, they cram SO MUCH into the three days that it is almost impossible to retain any of it without darn good notes. Take someone with you who is really really 'book smart' if you aren't yourself, so they can soak up anything you miss. They do give you a little notbook thingy to take notes on, but it isn't nearly big enough if you take the notes you should, which most people won't.

5. If you don't buy advanced training, still go to the third day! That is truly the day when they teach the most practical tips. I think they wait until that day because all the people who aren't serious about it seem to quit when they hear the sales pitch at the end of the second day. On the third day, you'll notice the class is like, 1/4 what it was the first day. There were some people who didn't buy but still came back on the 3rd day, and most of them left when we broke for lunch. They then missed even more valuable info. What I'm trying to say is, don't leave until they tell you goodbye, or you are going to miss something you've already paid for!

Please, don't take this post to you as a sales pitch to go to the training, because it isn't. The decision is yours to make, and you sure have plenty of opinions here to base it on. After what happened to Cynthia, I really do not know if your 'bootcamp money' is refundable. If it isn't, I urge you strongly to go to the three days with a mind ready to learn, so you won't have wasted your money. So far, my husband and I really like our training. We went to the bootcamp in.. August I think, and have attended one advanced training. We have been doing all the 'homework' we were assigned, and plan on making our first offer on a house tomorrow. I sure am praying that it all works out like they said it will!

Good luck to you and your family, and I hope whatever decision you decide works out the way you wish. =)
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#30 Consumer Comment

What now? searched "Whitney Education" on Google and found this sit

AUTHOR: Blake - (U.S.A.)

Wow! What now? I simply searched "Whitney Education" on Google and found this site. In Sept., 2004, I attended a free seminar and paid the $1,540.00 for the 3 day course. My wife and I are scheduled to attend this course in Nov. in Little Rock, AR.

I've spent the last hour or so reading these posts and I'm feeling a bit confused. I am simply a person who knows that there are creative ways to make money and better provide for my family. I made the mistake of not getting a college education and for the past few years (in a panic type mode) have been searching for a way to improve myself and my family. I feel that it is too late to go back to school because in the 4 years that it would take to get a degree, we will be financially sunk.

Have I made the wrong choice again in beleaving that I can make it in RE Investing? I had no idea that WE was looked upon this way. I just stayed up too late one night, watching TV. I was slow to react to the infomercial but thouht it might be true. What now?
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#31 Consumer Comment

In response to Sharon

AUTHOR: Regina - (U.S.A.)

I have read and read this post, I guess just morbid curiosity, lol. So for, I have tried to refrain from commenting on anyone else's situation and just give my own perspective, because I guess I thought that's what people come here to read... what happened to other people, not what other people think about other people... anyway, on to my answer..

Cynthia, when I read your post, I did feel compelled to answer but resisted the urge for the above stated reasons. I do always try to keep in mind that when we read a message on here, we are only hearing part of one side of the story, so without asking alot more questions about you and what you've done so far, it's not really the business of anybody here to be giving you advice.

Since someone asked me to, I will say that in your shoes, I would do as Amber and you have already suggested, and certainly not take it lying down, and if I felt I was truly wronged, I would hire an attorney. Any attorney worth his salt would make every attemp to get the offending company to not only repay your money, but to pay your attorney fees as well. It is my sincere hope that we are not getting all of the story or that there has just been a misunderstanding, because I do not want to do business with a bad company either.

Oh, and by the way to everyone else, I concur with Cynthia that the 3-day return policy was never mentioned when we were signing up for the additional training. I found it and questioned it prior to signing anything though and knew what my options were. I would suggest that anybody paying that kind of money for anything read every single line of 'fine-print' you can find.

Serge, to your post I really had no interest in responding. However, again, since I was asked to...

At the beginning of my bootcamp, it was also suggested that anyone who is outright rude or negative would be asked to leave. It was expained alot like Amber said, that the people here all paid good money to be here and learn, and if your intentions are just to nay-say and disrupt the class, then you are not welcome. I noticed that somehow the assumtion was made that YOU were one of the 'asked to leave' people, which I would not have assumed since you said you indeed attended the 3-day bootcamp.

As far as the information presented at the bootcamp and your opinion of it, my instructor NEVER said anything that sounds so cheesy as "fake it till you make it", she had much more class than that. After attending an advanced training though, where actually several of the advanced training instructors live nearby and dropped in on the class, I noticed that there are extreme differences in some of the teachers and thier teaching styles (not unlike any other type of school.) From what you have described, it doesn't sound like I would have liked your 3-day instructor either, but who knows, I'm only reading part of one side of the story, remember? ::shrug::

Serge, it's your opinion, your entitled to it, and it is what people read this board to hear.

So, to Sharon, I personally do not feel 'ripped-off', as a matter of fact, I feel pretty darn good about my investment. Serge attended a similar bootcamp training from the same company, and he feels like the information is not worth the price so has not paid for any further information. In the future I will attempt to answer any other direct questions aimed at me, but I do not spend my time just perusing this board looking for people to reply to, so it is not likely that I will post about what other people post here unless directly asked to do so. I'm in the process of building up my own business, and believe, just as was taught in my Whitney training, it isn't easy work! I'm very thankful that the Whitney company and trainers have made themselves readly available to me, because I've had many questions and will likely have many more.

Best of luck to all of you and the decisions that you make. If I remember and find the time, I will try to post to let you know how my next training goes. I am actually expecting a child very soon, so it is hard to stay 'on track' with RE as much as I really should be, so I think I'm in the 'gets there slow' group, lol.
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#32 Consumer Comment

AMBER: I AM DOING JUST THAT

AUTHOR: Cynthia - (U.S.A.)

To Amber;

Nothing was mentioned about customary 3 days. The customary 3 days contract was secretly attached to the back of our invoice. I saw it a few days later but I am not bothered about that because we were not told about it and it still remains unsigned.There was no "misunderstanding" but there was "misrepresentation".

Trust me, I will not take this kind of robbery lying down. I have notified them that I will take it to the highest level in this country to get my refund. I am in the process of contacting govt agencies and also preaching the gospel of not signing up for his class to anyone that crosses my path.

As I have said before,organisations like this should be closed down and the owners should rot in jail
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First off, Amber you made a lot assumptions about me that were wrong. First, never once did I interupt the instructor during his presentation. Second, I am a quite skilled worker I make over $60,000 a year on my regular salaried job. Plus I own and operate 2 small business, and guess what you Whitney schill from Seattle I own REAL ESTATE worth close to $1MM. I don't know what your background is, but don't ever try to tell me that I hee Hawed anyone or that I don't know what a bait and switch is... Sweet heart being from New York I've seen all types of scam and ripoffs, and Russ Whitney is scammer and a fraud. If this guy wasn't a scam artist why the hell would he have some many complaint lodge against him on this site. Is everyone else wrong and you and Whitney are right???... He's selling to the public at inflated prices information that can be read at the public library, which is fine, but don't try to convince me this guy is some kind of con artist. Finally my dear my financial position is better than most I have little consumer debt and I own my car out right.. so take your Whitney ideaology waste more of your money
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#34 Consumer Comment

Okay Sharon

AUTHOR: Amber - (U.S.A.)

I promised myself I would not waste any more time on this crap, but you are right, there are issues that have not been addressed.

Cynthia - I am sorry to hear that you lost your money. But I must ask you this - How many people did you bother about this? I mean, did you just take the answer from the first desk-jockey you spoke to? I admit, you should not have to persist to get a refund on something like this, and I will not defend Whitney's company if this is truely what happened. But perhaps they told you that you had the customary 3 days to back out and you misunderstood them. It is a possibility and I am only speculating. When I was at the training, I put a deposit on the software. Later, I decided to buy it cheaper on eBay, and asked for a refund. They had my money back in my bank account within 3 days. I had no problem getting a refund. That is my experience. But given your situation, if it were me, I would have asked for the supervisor, and his supervisor, and so on. I would tell them that I will keep going above people's heads until I am dealing with Whitney himself, and failing that, I am prepared to work in conjunction with the BBB, FTC and the attourney generals in both my own state and the state of Florida in order to get my money back. I am confident that if you were persistent, you would have gotten your money back. If you take what people say at face value you will never succeed in real estate, that's for sure. You need to negotiate - and that goes for all areas of life. If you just bought houses for the asking price all the time, you would be missing out on a lot of potential savings. You have to make a low offer - and if it is rejected, make ANOTHER one. Don't just walk away. A quitter is the surest to be a failure. And just to keep from being ripped apart, I am going to restate - I don't agree with those business practices IF IN FACT that is what actually happened, and if it wasn't a misunderstanding on your part. Keep on trying to get your money back. And keep in mind that being a pushover is not going to help you succeed in anything. (Calm down, I am not calling you a pushover - I don't know you - I am just pointing out the possibility that you may have been, and saying that if you were, stop it)

Serge - Fake it till you make it - They explained this one to us - apparently they didn't explain it to you (or you weren't listening to anything but your own hee-HAWing)

What this means is you have to present yourself as a professional - even on your first deal. If you present a low-ball offer and you look like you just got off of an 8 hour shift at a blue-collar job, the agent will assume this is all you can afford and be less willing to negotiate than he would if you were dressed for success. People make judgements about other people all the time - this is the sad truth. And sadder still, people judge how much they can take you for. If you look and speak like you know what you are talking about, an agent will be less likely to waste your time trying to get more money from you than you are willing to pay. If you act like an investor as opposed to a consumer, you will get more respect from the business people you deal with. You must do this, even on your first few deals. This is what "fake it until you make it" means. Call it motivational nonsense if you choose, but it makes sense, and is advice given to protect your own interests.

"He said that during the break should any of students start making negative comments about the training he (the instructor) would have them leave the premises."

They never said anything even remotely close to that at my training session in Seattle. But I can speculate on this - There are a lot of people who paid good money to sit with you for 3 days in this seminar. I know that there was an APPROPRIATE time that the instructor allowed questions and concerns. All concerns were addressed. But I can imagine that if you were acting like the jackass you say you felt you were, you were probably not confining your comments to appropriate times and were disrupting the class. I can imagine you were interjecting with comments that contributed NOTHING to the class, such as the immature name calling and other hee-hawing that didn't address any specific question that could be answered. I can imagine that they crammed as much information into 3 days in NYC as they did here in Seattle, which means that they do not have time to debate and argue with someone who is immature or unreasonable, or who might be a troll who wants nothing more than to ruin it for everyone - After all, there ARE people there who WANT to be there, WANT to listen to all that there is to be said, and can keep their yaps shut for long enough to listen and absorb all the information that was actually presented. There are people who can listen to someone say "fake it until you make it" and regardless of what they THOUGHT one phrase meant, could continue to listen to and learn from the other information without throwing a fit. They were wise enough to not let one or two comments ruin the rest of it for them. And THEY probably feel like they got their money's worth.

Bait and switch?!? Did they take your money and insist that you pay more before they give you anything? No, they gave you 3 days worth of instruction (as advertised), and offered more training for an additional price. Obviously you don't know what bait and switch means. This comes down to yet another person who was caught off guard by the fact that there is more out there to spend their money on, and disputes the value of these advanced training options. Did you really think that 3 days in a classroom is all it would take for you to become an expert? I am sorry if you are disappointed, but there is no easy or low-cost way to be successful. If it is too much money and not worth it to you, don't buy it. How hard is that?

BUT - If you are ambitious enough, you can make the money to pay for it. If $30,000 is enough to bankrupt you, you ABSOLUTELY need to do something about it. If you start thinking more like an investor and less like a consumer, larger dollar amounts are more attainable. I don't know how much money you make, but in my area, $30,000 is less than the median annual income of most SKILLED trades. Are you working in a skilled or professional trade? If not, I would imagine that you are the type of person who just wants the easy answer and are not willing to work for it. If this is you - I am sorry but Real Estate is not for you.

If you really desire, you can manage your money so that you could afford to invest, but it takes effort and self-control. I am not going to analyze your budget, but I would bet that you have Cable TV and a balance on some credit cards (Used to purchase consumer items). Being in New York, I cannot speculate on whether or not you have a car, but if you have a loan on a car, look at how much you paid, with interest. How much do you spend on entertainment and impulse items? How much do you spend for immediate gratification? If you cannot even estimate these numbers for the last couple of years, you are not managing your money.

According to Monster.com, the Cost of living in Queens, New York is approximately 36.8% less than New York, New York. You are living in a pretty expensive area. You are not stuck in your financial situation - you have options that could make you more money or save you more money. You could afford an education if you just start searching for the answer to the right question - which is "HOW can I afford this?"

I do not want you to answer with specifics on what you do, how much you make, and what you spend it on. These are rhetorical questions. They are meant to stimulate some thought about how much you really want to stop being a consumer and what you are willing to sacrifice temporarily in order to secure your financial future.

In New York, New York, The median annual salaries for various careers are:

---Retail and food service---
Food Prep Worker - $25,023
Retail Sales Staff - $27,353
Retail Store Manager Assistant - $39,933
Retail Store Manager - $46,265

---Skilled Trades---
Auto Mechanic I - $36,032
Auto Mechanic III - $53,612
Drywall Installer - $43,126
Diesel Engine Mechanic - $43,113
Welder I - $33,354
Welder III - $50,091

---Health Care---
Medical Records Coding Technician - $41,816
Medical Social Worker - $59,403
Chiropractor - $89,290
Family Practice Physician - $166,084
Anesthesiologist - $296,627

---Real Estate---
Title Examiner - $36,351
Real Estate Sales Agent - $36,993
Mortgage Credit Supervisor - $70,059
Commercial Real Estate Appraiser - $85,096
Property Manager - $87,771
Commercial Real Estate Manager - $143,189

I put these numbers up because I wanted to give everyone some perspective here. Any of the careers that average more than $50,000 are going to require some schooling, definately more than 3 days worth. If you want to be successful, you should know this. You should know that you have the option to become an anesthesiologist and make alomst 300 grand a year, but you will have to go to college for more than 3 days to make those wages, and I guarantee that school will cost you more than $30,000.

To become an Anesthesiologist requires many years of education. After four years in college to earn an undergraduate degree, the perspective anesthesiologist attends four years of medical school to earn an Doctor of Medicine degree. He/she must then complete another four years of training in an accredited Anesthesia Residency Program. The physician may then complete another one or two years in a subspecialty of anesthesia such as Obstetrical Anesthesia, Cardiac Anesthesia, Pediatric Anesthesia, or Pain Management.

It takes 14 years of effort to earn the right to call yourself an anesthesiologist.

I am sure the people who are attracted to Whitney's programs do not want to spend 14 years in school. They probably don't want to spend 4 years in school, otherwise they would be a professional of some sort, and be earning the wages that they need in order to save and invest enough to become financially independant.

Apparently, they do not even want to spend more than 3 days in school, and they expect to be making triple figures and expect it to be handed to them with minimal effort or investment. Everybody wants easy money, but if there was a way to make money without working or without knowledge or skill, everybody would have all the money they need. It takes money to make money, no matter if you want to be a real estate overlord or a diesel engine mechanic.

You get out of life nothing more than what you put into it.

If you do nothing else, buy Robert Kiyosaki's book - Rich dad Poor dad, and READ it. (~$5.95 on half.com) This will help you sort out what your liabilities REALLY are. It won't make you a real estate investor, but it is essential to help you see what people (including yourself) are wasting your/their money on.

Keep on searching, pushing, trying, learning and investing. Stop saying you can't afford things - your mind will stop there and "I can't afford it" will be your answer. Start asking HOW you can afford things - You will be pointing your mind towards the answers to the RIGHT questions.

So Sharon, I hope this is sufficient to fulfill your request. I am sure you and everyone else already knew what I was going to say. If you wanted me to respond in order to pick another fight or start another debate, I am sorry, but I am done with this argument now. Say what you want about me, I will not come back to defend myself - it is just not important enough to me.

I have made my point and any INTELLIGENT person who reads over this page will be able to decide if Whitney's training is right for them, which is the point, isn't it? We are not going to find the meaning of life here.

Best wishes to all.
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#35 Consumer Comment

Amber & Regina: Please Address Serge & Cynthia's Concerns

AUTHOR: Sharon - (U.S.A.)

To: Amber and Regina:

Please address the concerns of Serge (of NY) and Cynthia (Newark, NJ). It seems that in your haste to answer Dan, you guys have passed over these two former Russ Whitney customers. It would be great to hear your views on their experiences. God bless you all.
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#36 Consumer Comment

Intensified Real Estate Training AKA Millionaire U

AUTHOR: Regina - (U.S.A.)

My husband and I attended the Intensified Training course that was recommended by the 3 day bootcamp instructor as the 1st advanced training course we should take. The course was held in Fort Worth Texas, for three days, in October 2004.

This class was just what it was advertised to be. If you would like a reference, the course description at http://www.wealthintelligenceacademy.com/realestate_investment.aspx was accurate.

We are satisfied that we have invested our money in a good education. We have 6 more classes still included in the package we purchased from the bootcamp, and a mentor will personally come to our area and help us get things together. There was no sales attempt whatsoever at the training we came from, not for us, or for the other people there who had purchased much smaller packages than we had. The class focused on cash flow and motivation. The instructor introduced us to several previous students that live in the area, each with a different level of success from Whitney Education. We even met one who completed the courses over a year ago and has yet to make a deal. He was not angry or bitter, he just had a list of reasons (excuses) for being to busy to do the work involved in investing.

No one offered us easy money, fast riches, or 'sounds too good to be true' schemes. Instead we were offered solid leads, information, motivation, great reading lists, and the opportunity to spend time with some very successful people, asking them whatever we wished and getting straightforward answers.

Anyone who is reading this website, trying to decide if they can get rich quick and easy by investing in Whitney training, you need to know, our instructors favorite saying this week, and one also embraced by the company, was:

"Some people dream of success while others wake up and work hard for it." ~Author Uknown~

If you are not willing to do the work taught by the classes, then don't waste your money on them. If you are truly looking for someone to teach you what kind of work to be doing to enable you to become wealthy,(or maybe your goal is just to be be free from debt,) I fully believe that Whitney is the way to go.

One other thing, please don't bother to ask me any of the techniques taught. As has been stated many times on this board, they are all available to you from many sources, such as books, the internet, & REIOs; I just happened to pay someone alot of money to do the homework for me and provide me with live assistance with my questions and problems along the way. I am certain that anyone who is dedicatated to making thier RE investment business work, can do so, with or without Whitney. What a person pays the Whitney Education Group to do is to guide and motivate them along the way.
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#37 Consumer Comment

BUY THE BOOK!

AUTHOR: BARBIE - (U.S.A.)

I have been reading this page for over an hour and all I see is people complaining about a guy who is making money. Are you jealous? I have read comments about him being jailed for robbery. Who cares if his information is valid? I would not spend that much money on something I could find in a book for $1 on ebay. I bought his book and I guarantee that anyone who really wants to change their life would take the time to educate themselves.

People are going to college everyday and how many of them go out in the real world happy about spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on their educations. The doctors? The lawyers? Well guess what folks, their taking your money too. Everyone is in it for the money. Are you honestly going to say that if you could bottle up the ingredients that you would keep it to yourself.

Of course not. You would do the same things. Yes, he went from real estate to selling information. Isn't that how most of them do it? They start out doing it to pay the bills or the make the lives of their families a little better. Some of them hit the jackpot and decide that someone will pay for that information. Are any of you honestly going to say that if you had the one thing that could make you a ton of money that you wouldn't sell the idea? People like to complain when they realize that someone isn't going to do the work for them. I'm not really on either side here. I bought his book and it has a lot of good information in it.

I couldn't care less about his reasons for publishing the book. It was my decision to pay for it. It was your decision to pay for his course. There are a lot of so called "gurus" out their selling information and they all get bashed.

Maybe because the bashers didn't come up with that million dollar idea. They did the work. Do you think it's free to get published? Nothing is free. I am not disagreeing with the fact that some are marketing the same ideas in a different form. But who isn't? How many times has a song been remade or even a movie and they make millions.

There are a lot of people that have gone to these seminars and came out with facts that they put to good use and have profited. Everyone is looking for proof and it seems to me they are really looking for the answers that they couldn't figure out for themselves.

They heard the same information you did. If they made money why hate? All I'm saying is if you do the work you will eventually get rewarded but nobody gets rewarded for sitting on their couches thinking about how to destroy someone who didn't take them by the hand and do the deals for them.

I know that you get what you deserve. I am like everyone else looking for a way to make that million. Of course, I haven't found it but I'll tell you I have learned a lot from the books I've read.

Why spend your money on seminars when all of their information can be found in print. Do you honestly think you're gonna get more than the average person who can't afford it. And like everyone else who has had something to say here I'm sure I'm going to get ripped apart. No I haven't made millions. But I have common sense. I've done enough to have an extremely comfortable bank account.

And I'll give everyone a tip. Work pays off. Stop complaining and go out and do the work. I have one very good book that I would pay thousands for just for the information in it. That is what due diligence gets you. Not whining.
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#38 Consumer Comment

DISHONEST AND OVERPRICED ..WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING

AUTHOR: Cynthia - (U.S.A.)

I attended the 3 day seminar, Its not worth the price to my own opinion because I was able to get the same information for much less from another company later on but this is not the real issue

My bone is that I got interested the further training packages and asked the rep on their refund policy he said "You will get your money back up until the 1st day of the trainning so I went ahead and registered with a $3000 deposit. Anyhow after thinking about it I called back a few days later to cancel and was told by a rep that the deposit is non refundable and that I should take a look at my contract. This is very mean and dishonest. THis is a company that gives the impression of "helping" the average person to climb up but in reality ripping people off of their hard earned dollar by being dishonest.I am suprised pple are not put in jail for stuff like this.

BEWARE OF WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING
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#39 Consumer Comment

Here we go again... How long will this battle of wits hold up? I am wasting WAY Too much time on this debate.

AUTHOR: Amber - (U.S.A.)

Dan - put up some links to this easily verifiable information and make it easy for EVERYONE who comes to this page to find out what you know. Not all people are as web savvy when it comes to background checking and would benefit from some web addresses to start out with. Put up some names of developers that won't deal with Whitney and the source where you obtained this information. "RED HOT" is an objective term - but up a link to the statistics that you based this statement from. After all, not everyone keeps up on the real estate markets on the other side of the country and tend to keep up with what is going on locally.

"I am not telling you who exactly gave me the info."

WHY in the world not?!? If your source is credible, there is no reason not to. Of course, if it is your magic 8 ball, I wouldn't mention it either if I were you.

Help everyone out - this is what you want, isn't it? Back your statements up with CREDIBLE sources - After all, anyone can come here and say "I know this and that da dah da dah da dah..." just like you and I - but you claim to have verifiable facts - so post where you verified them. If there is a SUCCESSFUL developer who you know for a fact won't deal with Whitney, tell us who, and how you found this out.

As for the Hard Sell... they were referring to the packages of materials. True, they didn't mention that there were more availabe by mail order, but come on, really. Marketing is cut-throat and you know it. Are you so naive that you don't see it EVERYWHERE you look?!? Don't tell me you have never used any "marketing tactics" to make some money for yourself. The whole consumer world is filled with tactics like that. So what? Get over it.

"What do you think the motive behind getting people at the seminar to raise their credit limits was????"

True, but it is ULTIMATELY the decision of the individual to make that purchase if they CHOOSE. The information is still useful to those who do not go to the advanced training, as is much of the other info we have obtained from the class.

"NONE of these self proclaimed gurus will offer any evidence of property they own. So how to you know they are what they claim?"

You can do public records searches by name that will show you all documents filed with that name as an interested party. Although, typically they will have their business names or the names of trusts on the documents. But that does not stop you from going to the DOR website and find out if they hold any business licenses and begin your search from there. If you are referring to the people posting on these forums - I guess we're all outta luck, jack. It's just not important enough to put anyone at risk - after all, you might be a disgruntled psycho who would do anything to make people agree with you. Face it, we don't trust you or any other anonymous person who might lurk this page.

"If Reed is wrong tell us what property you owned that made you a millionaire at that time."

That is a HOLLOW attempt to add credibility to a man who put together such a slanderous website filled with immature commentary and libelous text that he obvously has a major PERSONAL grudge with Whitney himself.

"If Whitney was making millions (again his claim) in the RE gam why leave for a job that pays less for a company that operates in the red year in and year out?"

Obviously you have never heard of multiple streams of income. I don't think anyone leaves a profitable venture to go into a new unknown one. But some do start a new one on the side, hoping it will be successful. All I can say to that at this moment is that RE gave him the money to start up a new business and operate it for a year. He must have bought and sold a few houses and made a bit of profit at it in order to get to that starting point. He is not losing money in RE. WIN reporting losses does not speak for his knowledge in the RE field. Plus, you have to consider the deferred revenue. I assume you are looking at only the first few statements that show net losses - which is taking those numbers out of context. Some businesses run on accrual basis, and if there are outstanding liabilities, it does not matter that they exceed the amount of expenses - it is not counted as income until the liabilities are paid.

Look at the historical data of the stock for the last two years. When compared side-by-side to the monthly growth patterns of the NASDAQ, DJIA and the S&P, RUSS was above the average growth over the whole timeline for the last two years. Why is that?

"Whitney had an affair that resulted in a child... blah blah blah..."

All of this is personal and says nothing about the effectiveness of his methods. How many people think Bush is a better president than Clinton? Well I know that by comparison on MANY levels this country was in better shape back then. Lewinsky did not affect that fact ONE BIT. Personal details are incidental and have no bearing on how effective a person can be in business. Besides, his wife is still with him, isn't she? I suppose she was a victim of a hard-sell as well... You cannot judge a person's character by observed actions if you do not know the person AND the inside influences there may be. Nevertheless, it still says nothing about the effectiveness of his methods.

"Each state is different. Whitney gives general information that is not state specific."

Contracts or foreclosure law is really the only thing that changes from state to state. However, there are two methods in foreclosure law; one is judicial foreclosure and one is non-judicial foreclosure. So, you have half your states as trustee states and half of your states as mortgage states, some of those operate pretty similar. There are small nuances such as redemption time periods etc. and there is a manual that depicts those differences in each state. How would you know what information Whitney gives anyways? I thought you never bought in, therefore have never heard what it is that they teach.

"You have not put together one deal yet you claim his strategies are the real deal."

I am not claiming anything - I am stating that EVERYONE who complains about this company is saying that they are angry because when they got to the Training there were more things to spend their money on, and yes, the items are priced out of the average person's budget. Whitney put a value on the information he has to offer and some people pay, and others disagree with the value. A value dispute does not constitute calling someone a crook.

If you paid for the three day training, you received a compilation of information and materials. If you are unhappy, HONESTLY consider why:

Many people buy diet pills only to get fatter - because they think the diet pills alone will be their miracle and they won't need to um, let's see... exercise... cut out the McDonalds, chips, soda and ice cream... put a little discipline, perserverance and effort into their endeavors.

Many people buy into a money making idea only to get poorer - because they think the information alone will be their miracle and they won't need to MAKE the calls, search and search, TALK to the people, BUILD their network of professionals, DO THE MATH and background checks, do the clean up and labor, be professional, INVEST further into their business (time and money), STUDY the field, read the informational and motivational materials, CUT OUT the BS spending and start thinking like an investor as opposed to a consumer. Put a little DISCIPLINE, PERSERVERANCE and EFFORT into their endeavors.

Are you the one who doesn't follow through? Did you try for 2 days and then give up? Did you only make 2 offers this week? Did you read the classifieds at all? Are you mad because you paid $2000 for someone to tell you that it is not easy? Are you mad because you could have bought a big-screen TV with that money? HONESTLY - if that is why you are angry - it is not the fault of Whitney. If you can HONESTLY say that you have put in ALL the effort and followed his advice to the letter for an EXHAUSTIVE amount of time in many areas of your state, and never made a dime... then speak up - put up a description of all your efforts and what you did or did not achieve from them.

My objection from the beginning is that I have never EVER heard of someone saying that they tried with everything they have and nothing worked. The ones who give up are SURE TO FAIL.

And don't point at me personally - I have not made a deal yet because I have yet begun - I am a full time student (read: NO money or time yet) have a credit score of 535 (read: was once recently an ignorant 18 year old) and am in the PROCESS of correcting these items. Believe me, when I have paid off my medical bills in collections and have the slightest bit of money to start with, after school is out, I will be trying my darndest to PROVE YOU WRONG. If I get back above zero and submit 1000 offers and not a single one profits me a cent, I promise I will come here and let you know that I am wrong. But I cannot call this guy a crook because I did not put forth the effort to work it.

So people, do you GET MY POINT? Nobody has been put in jail because of Whitney's teachings. The training has helped a percentage of people to be successful (although we cannot get an accurate percentage because there is a constant uproar whenever anybody claims success or satisfaction)

Do you really think that ZERO percent actually were successful in RE after attending the classes? Your success DEPENDS ON YOU.

Now take what you have heard, sift what you want, listen to what you believe and what makes sense to you, and CHOOSE whether or not to find out for yourself, understanding that you will get a lot of information covering a lot of bases in a short amount of time, and that 3 days of training will not make you an expert.

Know that you have to work, you have to search and compete, and you will have to invest money into your own business beyond the $2000 for the training. Know that you will have the OPTION to pay more money for more training, but you don't have to, and they won't belittle you for making your own decision.

You are the only one who can be held accountable for your own success or failure. You have to make the decision for YOURSELF if you want to study on your own or pay to sit in a classroom. You have to decide for YOURSELF if this sounds like it will be a good starting point and a useful tool for you. Nobody is saying it will work for you. But there are people who say that is worked for them. Take that for what it is worth.
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#40 Consumer Comment

Whitney has provided my husband and I with what we paid for

AUTHOR: Regina - (U.S.A.)

Greatest of luck to you Jeannie..

I too purchased a package from the 3-day bootcamp (see my post above.) My husband and I are a bit younger than you(30 and 28, respectively), and quite happy to have this opportunity presented to us now, before our kids are begging us for college money! lol

We will be attending our 1st training, the Advanced Real Estate one, this week, and Wholesales next month and Forclosures the month after that, then our mentor in Jan or Feb.

At first, we had a hard time getting in contact with anyone from Cape Coral, but since the hurricanes have passed, they have been great. We get emails, and phone calls, as reminders, as motivators, and as assistance to our questions.

If you change your mind, best of luck to you with your endeavors. It's alot of money, believe me, I know, I did it too. If you don't change your mind, again, best of luck! I too feel the need for motivation, not just education, and so far Whitney has provided my husband and I with what we paid for.
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#41 Consumer Comment

Just Attended the 3-day Cash Flow Seminar (Russ Whitney) 3 day "boot camp"

AUTHOR: Jeannie - (U.S.A.)

I just attended the 3 day Cash Flow Seminar, which is associated with the Wealth Intelligence Academy, which is Russ Whitney's organization and thought I'd give my comments here.

The lead in to the 3 day "boot camp", was a free seminar that I attended approximately 1 month ago, which lasted about 4 hours. This was strictly motivational, that you can do it, etc. As a free seminar I expected a sales pitch to sign for additional educational tapes, classes, etc, whatever. But in my never ending search to figure out how to become financally independent, and my belief that real estate is a great way to do it, I go to these seminars to see what I can pick up for free. There is always some little bit of info that I can use. 4 hours of my time is not a waste to me if I can learn something useful.

At the 4 hour seminar they offered a 3 day boot camp for $99.00. I was the first in line. 3 days @ $99 is $33 per day. Well worth it to pick up a few good ideas. PLUS I could bring someone. I brought my daughter who also has a desire to become independent, so the class became $16.50 per day. What I didn't expect was lunch daily. If I were to purchase lunch with drink, etc, it would have cost me , I figure, $10 per day. So, at $99 less $60 for lunches (me and daughter),the boot camp actually cost each of us $19.50, $6.50 per day. Who can complain about this?? The classes were 10 hours Friday and Saturday, and 8 hours on Sunday, with 1 1/2 hours worth of breaks per day, approx. Did I expect them to pitch something else? Definately! Did I learn anything here? Absolutely! Yes, Yes, Yes! Believe me, this was well worth the $$$ and time. Yes, a lot of time, especially during the 2nd day, was spent on motivating us to buy the education program, as well as pitches throughout, BUT that was not the only focus. There was a lot of education offered, through examples and techniques. My daughter and I both filled up a legal pad with notes, plus. If you let the pitch get in the way of the education offered, you were making a big mistake. Kind of like not being able to see the forest for the trees.

OK, now on to the pitch. As I said, I was expecting it. What I didn't expect was the cost. Geez! The lowest price package offered was $7490.00. There were so few people signing that another program was offered at $5500 or so, one less class plus the software. All classes offered the software. Not all classes offered the mentor program.

Now here's the thing with me, and I suspect a lot of people are the same. I purchased the Carlton Sheets no money down program about 2 years ago. I bought Robert Allens book and Rich Dad, Poor Dad. (Great book, by the way, after reading I had the courage to buy my first investment house.) I have also purchased several other books, reports, etc. and belong to The Creative Investor (internet site). So 2 years have gone by since my first educational endeavor (Carlton Sheets), and where am I today? I have only 1 house, that I purchased, no money out of my pocket, but certainly in debt to 1) the bank, 2) my friend who lent me down and repair money. I am not sorry I have this house. It has paid off to this point (I just purchased it in June). It scares me to take thousands of $$ of my very hard to come by money, and put it into an educational program like the ones they offered. However, what scares me more is being in the same place 10 years from now. I'm 54 years old. Where will I be at 64? I have no retirement, no savings. And at the rate I'm going I can't see that I'll be anywhere different anytime soon.(went through a divorce at the age of 46, by the way, and thus the situation).

I really do believe that I will get a good return on my investment with a few classes, at least to pay for the courses. If this group can motivate me and give me as much education as they did in these 3 days, then how much more can they offer with these intense classes? How much is too much when you really need the help and the desire. I'm a person who needs someone to hold my hand and give me the courage as well as the education. The education I can easily get off tapes, books, etc, but for me that hasn't been enough. I think I need the face to face classes and strong motivators, which I think these people can offer. Our instructor was a wealth of knowledge, and I suspect that the instuctors for the classes also will be top notch. You expect to pay top $$ for top quality products, right?

That's just the way I see it. I purchased the Classic Package for $7490, which includes 2 classes and the software. I need to get to the class via air, and stay in a hotel for 3-4 nights, so the expense will even be greater. I have 3 days to cancel, and believe me, I am going back and forth with this, it's really scary. But I need to move on or stay stuck. If I spend this money I know I'll work it, because I will be truly motivated to earn my investment back! That's the way I am. Can I get the same information from tapes and books? Probably. Will they motivate me to move on? I don't know? Will I be successful if I buy this course? I don't know.

But I do know that this company offers a way to move towards financial independence. For a person like myself who has been beaten down with negativity and has had NO financial training until just recently, I think I need it. I do not feel that I have been ripped off to this point and therefore have no reason to suspect that I will be ripped off with the courses and classes. The hurdle is, do I want to put out that much money? It's a tough decision to make. The fear may overtake me and I might still cancel!

I spent thousands of dollars on a traditional college education. It got me into a low paying social serices job.
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#42 Consumer Suggestion

What?!?!?!? Land in Cape Coral (where Whitney operates) is RED HOT right now

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

What do you mean you were not aware of the other developers? Do a google search for Cape Coral Developers and you will find the top five. I am not telling you who exactly gave me the info. Land in Cape Coral (where Whitney operates) is RED HOT right now. I know developers in the area that are cleaning up. If Whitney is so wise why wasn't he in on the boom? He is plas with Dan Kelly (who runs a development company and has been with Whitney from the get go) and Kelly isn't making a go of the development game. Whitney has been in that are longer than ANY other developer currently making serious money. Why isn't her king of the hill?

As for the financial info you can go to the SEC's website and obtain the company's financial info.

You said yourself in your very first post that the reps at the free seminar LIED TO YOU. They told you only a certain amount of seats were available. They told you that you had to pay right then and there. It turns out both were untrue. Didn''t this raise a red flag about theie business tactics? That is called a hard sell. What do you think the motive behind getting people at the seminar to raise their credit limits was???? More money to spend right there on Whitney products. You must have thought they were just trying to help.

You never answered your own questions. You claimed Whitney left the RE game to move up to manage a large company. You made the assertion that this was a more profitable venture. The SEC filings do not match your claim. WIN has lost money consistantly. If Whitney was making millions (again his claim) in the RE gam why leave for a job that pays less for a company that operates in the red year in and year out? Would you take business advice from a man that cannot run a profitable business? That would be like taking marriage advice from a man that has been divorced 12 times.

Whitney is just not a reputable person. If you had read his site answering John Reed's site, he made the claim that he was a dovoted family man and husband. Whitney had an affair that resulted in a child. Then he fought paying child support and claimed he could not afford a lawyer. All these documents are available at the Lee County Clerks website (although most require you to pay for copies). So is a man that cheats on his wife, gets a woman pregnant, denies he is the father, when proven to be the father fights paying support, claims he cannot afford a lawyer (while claiming to be a multi-millionaire in books) a devoted husband and family man? That says alot about him as a person and in turn him as a business man. If he would lie to his wife and lie to the courts why would he tell you the truth?

Say what you want abot Reed. Some of the stuff you need to take with a grain of salt but other stuff is 100% verifiable. Whitney claims (actually claimed, if you notice he took down www.whiteny-facts-vs-johntreed.com) that Reed is off base when discussing the homes he owned in NY. Yet, he offers no support to the claim. If Reed is wrong tell us what property you owned that made you a millionaire at that time.

I have offered things of substance you have offered woulda, shoulda, coulda. Things I have said can be backed up and verified. Nothing you have said can be.

NONE of these self proclaimed gurus will offer any evidence of property they own. So how to you know they are what they claim? You don't sound like you have done much research on Whitney at all.

You have not put together one deal yet you claim his strategies are the real deal.
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#43 Consumer Comment

I am intrigued, Dan

AUTHOR: Amber - (U.S.A.)

You have finally made an interesting point, Dan. I am not so bull headed that I would ignore this last post. I was not aware of these other developers that are doing so well. Would you be so kind as to post your sources? This is one situation where you can in fact back up your claims without sacrificing your privacy. Please show me where you have obtained this background information. Everyone has a right to know if the sources you are basing these claims on are reputable. And please, do me a favor and just forget about posting John Reed's website.

I am humble enough to admit when someone else is right, but I cannot concede yet as I am not yet convinced.

I still doubt that I will be convinced that Whitney is in fact a crook, selling a useless product. And that is the real question here, isn't it?

"You listen, not to discover, but to find something that confirms your own thoughts. You argue, not to find the truth, but to vindicate your thinking."

I am sure that you will come through with some credible sources, and I will be very interested to see what you have to offer. I am not arguing just for the sake of sticking up for a guy I don't know... I simply get disgusted when people want to place blame on everyone else for their own decisions that they made under free will. There were no guns being held at anybody's heads, which means IMO - Nobody is a victim as they claim to be, unless it is of their own ignorance.
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#44 Consumer Comment

Russ Whitney Intensive Training.. something is not right

AUTHOR: Serge - (U.S.A.)

I went to the Intensive 3 day course in NYC. From the start I could tell this was flim flam. First off the main "instructor" was trying to pass off this motivational nonsense. He mentioned that whenever anyone asks you how things are going you should respond "great... fake it till you make it.. That alone turned me off. It was so cheesy and fake I felt like jackass for being duped into signing up for this crap..Then this so called instructor said something very revealing . He said that during the break should any of students start making negative comments about the training he (the instructor) would have them leave the premises. This made me think I was either being inducted into a cult or I was at some kind of political rally..no dissent allowed.

Then this jerk kept pressing how we would have to spend up to $30,000 to further our training. I knew right there and then it was the old "bait and switch" game. What a con artist. I mean $30,000 where the hell would most people come up that?? oh thats right we should charge it to our credit cards... This is a one way ticket the poor house and bankruptcy..

BY the way I recently purchased some property without having to use any of that jackss Whitney's techiques.. and guess neither does anyone else... Whitney is a scam and a sham... Someone ought lock this guy up with guys from Enron..

So please if your thinking about signing up for this nonsense PLEASE SAVE YOUR MONEY TO BUY THE PROPERTY YOU WANT AND DON'T WASTE IT ON THIS CRAP.
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#45 Consumer Suggestion

Making money?? Whitney is the head of a corporation that has NEVER made a profit, publicly traded company, so all this info is available.

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

They did report a profit one year and the SEC made them revise it to show the actual loss. So now the question becomes why, if Whitney is so knowlegable about investing in property, did he give up "making millions" to run a company that has consistantly lost money???? Look at what Whitney makes each year as head of the company (also available via the SEC) and compare that to the millions he claimed he was making in real estate investing.

I am glad you brought up Trump. If Whitney knows so much about investing that he can teach "ten of thousands" of people every year, why not move on to bigger and better things? Why go from making millions (his claim) to running a company in the red? I am not saying Whitney has discontinued his RE investing (in fact I know this is not true). However, I am saying most people move up to development where the real money in RE is. I have it on good word most developers in SWFL won't touch any of his projects. Whitney moved into SWFL when the market was ice cold. If he was as wise as he claims he would be a red hot land developer right now. HE ISN'T. Look into developers in that area. At least 5 are doing EXTREMELY well (actually making ten of millions). One developer sold $40 million worth of property in 24 hours!!! Why isn't Whitney one of them? Why isn't he linked up with them??? I know several developers in that area and none will touch him with a 50 foot pole. Amber, do you know more than these brilliant RE investers? I am willing to be you don't.

The point I am trying to make is do your research. You will notice that none of the pro-whitney people ever take negative comments without getting upset. Part of it has to do with them not wanting to accept the fact that they may have gotten taken. They refuse to accept the fact they paid way too much for way too little and have nothing to show for it. Whitney has said an overwhelming majority of his students NEVER mak a RE deal.

Each state is different. Whitney gives general information that is not state specific. There are also the upsells. Always keeping you on the line keeping you wanting more.

Also, several states have stepped in to tell Whitney he needs to change his sales pitch in order to do business in their state. Doesn't that strike you as odd? Again, do your research. Everything I have said is verifiable on the internet.

If Whintey could actually do what he teaches he would be Trump. The fact that he isn't speaks volumes. He will not reveal what property he owns or has owned so people can verify his claims. That also speaks volumes. If you make a claim than back it up.
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#46 Consumer Comment

That's right Gorden. Whitney has switched from making money in real estate to running an information business.

AUTHOR: Amber - (U.S.A.)

He found less work and more money in it for himself. Common sense, however, does not cause me to gather from that fact the conclusion that there is no money to be made in real estate, or that it does not work. Look beyond the ends of your noses, people.

I hope that in the future I can compile enough material to make an informationally intensive product that would be of enough value to enough people that I can quit rehabbing homes and sit at the top of a big corporation. I am sure you would not turn down an opportunity like that either.

Common sense tells me that there are MANY MANY ways to make money in this world. Some are more profitable than others, and some are more suited to different types of people. Let's face it... if I could be in Donald Trump's shoes right now, I think I would. I just don't have the means as of yet.

Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world. (Decidedly, the richest in America.) If I had Gorden's common sense, I would abort all other means of income and try and create a suite of software that I can sell for what is way too much money in many people's opinions. But alas, I am not a computer programmer. I suppose I could spend $2000 to go to a community college and get STARTED trying to learn how to code as well as the multitudes of people good ol' Billy has coding for him. I assure you that a community college education would only be the beginning, and maybe if I spent $30,000 on schooling, I might have a chance at learning how to code well enough to ENTERTAIN the idea of competing with Microsoft. (In reality, that education would probably only afford me the opportunity to become a rich man's employee.)

Just because Whitney decided he did not want to continue in a labor-intensive business, making a few thousand dollars at a time, and decided that his knowledge might bring in more money in to his account (Which it does) does not mean that there is no money to be made in real estate, or that it does not work. It means he has moved on, and maybe in the future, many of these people in real estate will end up using their real estate profits to start an even more profitable company. Would they be a testament to the idea that real estate does not work? Au contraire, my friend. They would be a testament that real estate does make money for people, it was a stepping stone for them, and it was a stepping stone for Whitney.
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#47 Consumer Comment

Whitney building wealth, question for people who found success in this program

AUTHOR: Gorden - (U.S.A.)

After reading through all the goods and bads, I just have a simple question for people who found success in this program. Using my common sense. If I discovery a secret way in the real estate business, why would I offer only $2000 thousand dollars for others to make more than I would. I could hire few hundred workers ($30 per hour) each month and generate millions if I knew this system is working. For some of ya who had worked for Whitney, instead of spend three days push people to buy your advance training programs, you could just spend that much time buying real estate yourself and make double or even triple amount of money. I guess the reason you are doing what you do, it is more profitable. Let's face it, real estate you need to find prospectives, but this, they all come to you with greater than 50%chance of closing.

To all, best of luck, next time apply things with your common sense and listen to others.
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#48 Consumer Comment

The flaming does not help people to make an informed decision...

AUTHOR: Amber - (U.S.A.)

Thank you Corey. You made a point that I failed to make in my last post.

Dan, no body is going to be foolish enough to post any personally identifying information. If I (or anybody else) were to give you an address or parcel number, you would truely be able to verify that the deals actually took place - but you would also have a lot more information than you are entitled to. Considering the fact that there are a lot of Trolls out there...

(defined - people who lurk around on public forums trying to create waves in a contolled discussion, flame or defame people personally, or cause harm to individuals by trying to expose personal information while posing to be something or someone they are not...)

... It would be dangerous to allow access to my (or Carol's or anybody else's) home address, phone number or even my last name. It is painfully apparent that you are very upset. Be it because some people disagree with your opinions, the fact that you cannot (or will not) back up any of your claims any sooner than we will, or because some people called you to the carpet to say 'who the heck do you think you are to presume that you can judge who is honest and who is not, when all you know about them are the 4 paragraphs written on a web page?'

Or maybe you are just a caring guy who gets mad when his fellow down-trodden honest working Americans' dreams are taken advantage of. I don't know.

The whole idea that the VALUE is in the eye of the beholder is the underlying idea that my commentary is built upon.

There are people who paid WHATEVER they paid, for WHATEVER they got, and they are not crying about it... either because it is JUST MONEY, or because they feel like they got what they expected out of their purchase. These people have a right to be heard as well, without being flamed.

If I end up in jail or in debt for tring to follow the American dream and become successful in whatever endeavor I choose to pursue, I am the only one to blame if I mess up because I took a statement out of context or did not put in my due dilligence in order to cover my own ASSets and make sure I am acting within my rights and the limits of the law.

If WEG is teaching illegal tactics, they will be called to the stand. I am no lawyer, but I feel that they were very responsible when it comes to the materials that they taught to me. They don't stand in front of the class and tell people to evade taxes by illegal means. They don't teach people to put themselves in a situation where they will get into trouble when making an offer. If they were teaching methods that were landing their students in jail or financial trouble, there would be A LOT more negative word of mouth than there is, and the FTC or the Attourney Generals in every state would get so many complaints that action against them would be justified.

I will be the first to say that if you are unhappy, make an official report to the FTC, the Attourney General of your own state, as well as the State of Florida. They will look at your complaints and decide if Whitney is teaching any illegal tactics, or if the person who submitted the report is upset because they didn't put enough effort into their business to make huge profits for them. It is not up to us to decide what is right or wrong. Otherwise I would be named "The Honorable Judge Amber" and you would be named "The Honorable Judge Dan."

Likewise, the Attourney General or the FTC would not give any weight to a complaint submitted by you, Dan, because you do not have first-hand knowledge of the product. All you know is hearsay. My only reason for bringing that point up is in hopes that anyone reading this page trying to make an informed decision will know that there are some who are more informed than others, when it comes - specifically - to the 3 day training classes. Having attended the training, I am satisfied even though I am not a millionaire (yet). I am satisfied because even though I am not by any means an expert in real estate investing, I walked away from that classroom with (if nothing else) a starting point for the path to making my dreams come true. As stated before, if I end up in jail as a direct result of the methods I have been taught, my opinion will differ. If I end up in jail because I was hastey and ignorant in my actions, that is my problem and not the result of taking any classes. If I end up going through my whole life and never getting my investment of $2000 back, that is not the fault of WEG either. That is my own fault for not using the knowledge, time and opportunities I have been given, be it from WEG, a book I read or from God.

I will never be convinced that you have the credentials you have stated any more than you will ever be convinced of any claims that anybody else has made or will make. The reason being that there is no way for any party to back up these claims while still preserving their privacy. And privacy is a heck of a lot more important than proving anything to a faceless person in New Jersey who presumes that they are a better judge of value than any other person who might be inclined to share his or her own opinion.

There is nothing you can say to make me mad or sorry about the decision I have made, and I want everyone to know about it. Whitney has a mixed review - that is apparent to anyone who cares to try and find out.

My objection to the complaints out there is this - I have not personally seen any complaints from anybody who has actually gotten into legal trouble as a direct result of WEG's teachings. The only people who are upset are the ones who feel that the classes did not meet their expectations and the price was inflated.

That brings us back to the point that value is in the eye of the beholder. You cannot please everybody. That is a sad and painful reality of doing business.

If someone was unhappy about the quality of the three-day training, I cannot imagine they would be inclined to spend another nickel on any products from this company. The ones that continue to pay in are usually satisfied with what they have gotten, and they have every right to be so. But what people fail to realize is that paying for training does not guarantee success. You will only succeed if you continue to try and you will only fail if you give up before you succeed.

As for myself - I am not a millionaire (if that is the true measure of success...) but that does not mean that I will not succeed. I have many goals in my life and financial security is only one of them. I will consider myself a failure if I become complacent and settle for less than I need, need more than I can achieve, or sacrifice my morals in order to attain something I do not deserve. Until then, I am still kicking, and I do not have the time to stress myself out over some cash that I paid to somebody willingly, because it did not magically turn me into other people's definition of success. I just happen to believe that this knowledge will CONTRIBUTE to getting me to the place I hope to be in the future. If I am wrong, that is your opinion and it is my right to be so.
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#49 Consumer Suggestion

RE investing is great, but you have to carefully discern what you hear

AUTHOR: Corey - (U.S.A.)

Hi, I read through these and am quite amazed at the responses. I won't vouch for Whitney specifically, as I have not bought his material, but I did buy Legrand's stuff and we have a part time business now, buying about 1 house per couple of months. Some of those are purchased outright, some are just taking over the debt. I read where someone asked for proof of how it's done to not be a "shrill", whatever that is. The best way to buy houses at a discount is to get third party private individuals who will loan their money to buy the property and you pay them interest like you would a bank. Except these private individuals will lend based on "value", not on purchase price like banks. ie if I find a house I can buy for $65k, but it is worth $100k after it gets $10k in work, a private person is happy to loan me the money (75k) and have 75% loan to value protection. It is a very secure loan. So that lets you buy houses without using your own money or trying to work with banks. They would only loan about 90% of the 65k amount because that is the purchase price they base loans on. Make sense? That's just their screwed up policy. Anyway, my point is that this kind of knowledge on how to do things came out of programs like Whitneys. But it took time to learn the details and figure out the whole thing with experience. Some will say deals like the above are never found. Well, we find enough to do 6 houses part time since january, so I don't know how many there are, but consistent advertising has produced enough calls from people in these situations requiring a sale at a discount to do very well.
I'm happy to answer any more questions if I see them posted here. I'm not sure what else I can provide to the naysayers here on the website as far as my credibility without compromising my privacy to a lot of peeople i don't know. I guess Whitney's stuff could be crap, but I hope those of you who think so don't give up on RE investing because of the bad experience. Go find another program and work hard, just don't expet much for free.
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#50 Consumer Suggestion

News for Amber

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

I have been in this business for more years then you probably have known it has existed.

The inability to find someone to purchase a contract DOES NOT qualify as a contingency for not being able to acquire financing. Tell you what get yourself a contract to buy and try backing out claiming you cannot find someone to sell the contract to. See how fast you end up having to pay a lawyer to straighten it out. If they can find a buyer at a higher or the same price you might be safe if not you may find yourself in hot water. I have done numerous SFH, MFH, and land development deals and can tell you right off the bat that I know alot more then you on this subject.

In regards to taxes. I agree most everyone knows they have to pay taxes on cap gains. However, people should not distort the claim of profit. If you take in $7000 you have to pay your taxes, you have to take out attorney fees, misc. expenses for advertising or costs related to the contract. So you cannot claim "I made x amount of dollars PROFIT." It is not all profit.

I don't need to patronized a product to know people are getting ripped off. Paying $2000 for software that you can create for free of under $100 is a rip off. I don't need to get taken to know others are. That is the silliest thing I have ever heard. Read the reviews of Whitney and look at Whitney's own reports. About 90% of the people that take the boot camp seminars never buy a property or recoup what the spend. Most Whitney students that claim they are making money cannot back it up with facts that are researchable. Give us the info on the property you bought. I can look at any property record from my computer and verifiy what you paid and sold the property for. Each transaction is recorded at the clerk's office.

You make the comparison and a hamburger. That is way off base. Look at it this way. You could buy a car for $25,000 or get the same car with more personalized features for $2,500. Which would you buy???? Whitney students don't know any better and buy on impulse after hearing a Ra Ra speech from the group.

You scenario where the people would "sell the house for whatever they can get for it" is WAY off base. Tell us how many of this EXACT type of deal have you put together? If they try to buy the house for less than what will cover the mortgage the deal will not go through. The bank would work with them before they would let that happen. The bank has protections written into it's mortgage. And by the slight chance they don't it will cloud the title and you will be sitting on the place.

Also, very few VERY FEW properties can be inproved with $5000 to raise their value by $15,000. A kitchen is the most "even money" fix up. And even with that you generally only rasie the value by about %80 of what you spend (a $10,000 renovation would raise the value $8,000 tops). You can read a ton of industry publications that will tell you this. But, if you heard it at a boot camp it most be true! A cpat of paint and some cheap carpeting costing $5,000 WILL NOT raise the value of a property by $15,000. That is a documented fact in industry publications. Think about it like this. Why would someone add $15,000 to a property's value if they could do it themselves for $5,000. Do you think everyone buying homes (except you) is a rube and has noone (realtor, attorney, contractor) on their end advising them????

You mention $2,000 for an education (which it is not). If you have taken a Whitney course you know the full gambit of courses will run you over $50,000. You know you cannot pull off a full deal with only one bootcamp. They is always something more to buy. If not WIG would have noone to market to and have to close up shop.

So let's review:

You cannot claim "profit" if you are not accounting for expenses.

If you carry out a contract hoping to pawn it off the way you are claiming and try to back out YOU WILL end up in court settling it.

You have made many hypothetical claims (if this, this, and this, all occur and the planets are in their right phase you will make money) without any real verifible sales, purchases and facts.

Bottom line you are parroting what you heard at a seminar without having been able to apply the knowledge to real scenarios.

Look at other posts. People claim to have been able to buy property in Costa Rica with only 3 hours works. Bull! Just getting the due diligence done takes weeks.

So, unless you can post some verifible facts your posts should be considered hot air.
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#51 Consumer Suggestion

News for Amber

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

I have been in this business for more years then you probably have known it has existed.

The inability to find someone to purchase a contract DOES NOT qualify as a contingency for not being able to acquire financing. Tell you what get yourself a contract to buy and try backing out claiming you cannot find someone to sell the contract to. See how fast you end up having to pay a lawyer to straighten it out. If they can find a buyer at a higher or the same price you might be safe if not you may find yourself in hot water. I have done numerous SFH, MFH, and land development deals and can tell you right off the bat that I know alot more then you on this subject.

In regards to taxes. I agree most everyone knows they have to pay taxes on cap gains. However, people should not distort the claim of profit. If you take in $7000 you have to pay your taxes, you have to take out attorney fees, misc. expenses for advertising or costs related to the contract. So you cannot claim "I made x amount of dollars PROFIT." It is not all profit.

I don't need to patronized a product to know people are getting ripped off. Paying $2000 for software that you can create for free of under $100 is a rip off. I don't need to get taken to know others are. That is the silliest thing I have ever heard. Read the reviews of Whitney and look at Whitney's own reports. About 90% of the people that take the boot camp seminars never buy a property or recoup what the spend. Most Whitney students that claim they are making money cannot back it up with facts that are researchable. Give us the info on the property you bought. I can look at any property record from my computer and verifiy what you paid and sold the property for. Each transaction is recorded at the clerk's office.

You make the comparison and a hamburger. That is way off base. Look at it this way. You could buy a car for $25,000 or get the same car with more personalized features for $2,500. Which would you buy???? Whitney students don't know any better and buy on impulse after hearing a Ra Ra speech from the group.

You scenario where the people would "sell the house for whatever they can get for it" is WAY off base. Tell us how many of this EXACT type of deal have you put together? If they try to buy the house for less than what will cover the mortgage the deal will not go through. The bank would work with them before they would let that happen. The bank has protections written into it's mortgage. And by the slight chance they don't it will cloud the title and you will be sitting on the place.

Also, very few VERY FEW properties can be inproved with $5000 to raise their value by $15,000. A kitchen is the most "even money" fix up. And even with that you generally only rasie the value by about %80 of what you spend (a $10,000 renovation would raise the value $8,000 tops). You can read a ton of industry publications that will tell you this. But, if you heard it at a boot camp it most be true! A cpat of paint and some cheap carpeting costing $5,000 WILL NOT raise the value of a property by $15,000. That is a documented fact in industry publications. Think about it like this. Why would someone add $15,000 to a property's value if they could do it themselves for $5,000. Do you think everyone buying homes (except you) is a rube and has noone (realtor, attorney, contractor) on their end advising them????

You mention $2,000 for an education (which it is not). If you have taken a Whitney course you know the full gambit of courses will run you over $50,000. You know you cannot pull off a full deal with only one bootcamp. They is always something more to buy. If not WIG would have noone to market to and have to close up shop.

So let's review:

You cannot claim "profit" if you are not accounting for expenses.

If you carry out a contract hoping to pawn it off the way you are claiming and try to back out YOU WILL end up in court settling it.

You have made many hypothetical claims (if this, this, and this, all occur and the planets are in their right phase you will make money) without any real verifible sales, purchases and facts.

Bottom line you are parroting what you heard at a seminar without having been able to apply the knowledge to real scenarios.

Look at other posts. People claim to have been able to buy property in Costa Rica with only 3 hours works. Bull! Just getting the due diligence done takes weeks.

So, unless you can post some verifible facts your posts should be considered hot air.
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#52 Consumer Comment

Another attempt at perspective

AUTHOR: Amber - (U.S.A.)

I also wanted to make the point that you can buy the software on eBay. I did.

The software is helpful, but you have to make your own decision about whether you want to buy it, or search for (or try to program for yourself) software that will do what you want it to do.

There IS other software out there. Stop complaining that they try to sell stuff to you. That is what the world is about. I don't see you protesting every ad on television because McDonald's is trying to take your money for an inferior product. Is a non-fresh pattie of low-quality hamburger, a wilted piece of lettuce, and a bun with a few sesame seeds worth $4.49 to you? If not, don't buy it. If you buy it, you are not a victim of their advertising, you are a victim of your own decision to continue to patronize a restaraunt and buying a product when you could make it for a fraction of the cost at home. (Not to mention that some people LOVE McDonald's food - others don't.)

My point is - value is in the eye of the beholder. But you cannot judge a McDonald's hamburger's quality based on their ads, any good word of mouth or bad word of mouth. You have to cough up the $4.49 to find out, or keep your mouth shut and keep your money. If all you hear is bad, don't do it. If there is a mixed review, you must decide if the risk is worth finding out. A burger is easy, I know that $2000 is not an easy amount of money to spend. (Unless you are spending it on a computer system, an X-box with a case of games, a plasma TV or financing for a shiny new car.)

I would rather spend $2000 on the possibility of gaining some knowledge as opposed to spending it on a television which will hinder my chances of success.

The value of education in this country is so low, when you compare it to the amount people spend for "immediate gratification" - the amount people spend in interest every year in order to have a plasma TV, TiVO, or new car NOW (as opposed to waiting, saving, paying cash, and saving - hold on to your hats - $8000 of finance charges over 4 years for a new SUV.)

So if you have never financed a car, carried a balance on your credit card for more than a month, or paid $70/month for 500 cable channels, then you can say that you have never been ripped off, and $2000 is too much for an education.

If you have been ripped off by a car salesman or your Visa carrier, then share about your experiences, but don't talk about a service or product you have never patronized. Let people make their own decisions.
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#53 Consumer Comment

Dan -

AUTHOR: Amber - (U.S.A.)

"Those deals are needles in a haystack"

Yes, but most income opportunities are the same way. Just like trying to find customers to buy your product. You advertise on television, radio or print hoping that maybe 0.5% of the population becomes your customer. You expend great amounts of money to pay for advertising so that you don't have to call everyone personally and give your sales pitch. This is how every consumer product is sold.

So you call numerous people and question them about their situation and their property. You spend 20 hours a week doing this, and may only find one or two prospects. You may get to the property and find that the whole structure is leaning and the frame is out of square. You strike it off of your list and move on. You spend another 20 hours making calls while scanning the classified ads, hoping to find one that matches your criteria, or fits into your formula. (and yes, you can possibly find the needle after only 3 hours of calls, and end up with this month's paycheck. This can't happen 100% of the time, but it is possible.) You know what keywords to look for that tell you either to call on the ads or to not waste your time. This knowledge allows people to be more productive with their time. If you want a list of keywords, go read a book.

"Also, what happens if you cannot assign the sales contract????? Do you think you simply walk away?"

Consider this, Dan. You have a contract that you are trying to assign. If you cannot find a buyer, you have a clause in the contract stating that it is contingent upon finding financing. Finding an assignee would satisfy that clause. You can walk away stating that you could not get financed for this property. The seller has the option not to accept your offer for purchase and sale knowing that you do not yet have financing in place. But if they do, you have a way out. There are NUMEROUS contingencies you can include in you offer to purchase that yould allow you to walk away at your sole discretion. If you want a list, go read a book.

"Are you aware of the tax issues involved with this profit?"

So many people get upset about taxes. I think about it this way. If I was paying one Million dollard in income tax to the government, I would be on cloud nine. That just means that I made a whole lot of money. You have a $7000 profit and have to pay capital gains - SO WHAT? They won't take it all. Taxes are a business expense. All true business people are aware of this fact and pay their taxes as required.

But also consider this - There are things you can do with that money to reduce your tax responsibilities. Do you think they failed to discuss this fact? Granted, they could not offer us enough information to enable us to become lawyers, but we know what to ask our lawyers in order to find one that can create the desired effects for us. They flat out tell us not to be stupid and get into tax trouble. They say what is possible and tell us to go to our lawyers or CPAs and get it done legally. If you want specifics, go read a book.

"Generally, people sell properties below "market value" becuase they are worth less than market value"

Market value is the amount that a particular house in it's current condition will sell for to the average buyer. The market value for my prospective property is less than the market value of it's identical twin next door, because it has 3 broken windows, needs all the carpet to be cleaned, needs minor landscaping and paint on the inside and outside. The seller is motivated because they are going to be foreclosed upon. They would rather sell the house for WHATEVER they can get for it and keep a foreclosure off their credit record. You can buy it for $10,000 less than the market value (remember - market value is the amount you could resell the property for at this moment), because time is of the essence for the seller. She only has 30 days to get the property off her back. You have presented the best offer they have received, because you have done enough assignment deals prior to this to have enough cash to pay the amount due to the mortgage company, which means that all the other buyers that have come around that do not have financing in place will take much longer to close than you will. So she will take less from you knowing that you can close the deal ASAP. This is only one type of motivated seller.

This is not taking advantage of someone's situation either. You are helping them out of their foreclosure. You would not be able to help people out of their foreclosures if you were losing money on every deal. Of course there will be profit.

Now let's think about the profits. You have a house you could hold onto until you find a buyer who will buy a house in poor condition for more than what you have paid on it. This works, but you could take $5,000 and improve the property which would bring it's sale value up by more than $15,000. This is called sweat equity.

I suppose you want the transcript of the entire 3 day training to be convinced. I paid the cash for the class. Nobody wants to give up every bit of knowledge which they paid for, in order to convince a bunch of nay-sayers who don't know what they are talking about.

This forum is for people who feel they have been ripped off, which means they paid the money and did not get what they expected out of it.

Then there are people who paid the money, know what they are talking about, and are rebutting to try and give the original complainer a new perspective (Like this is not a sit on your couch and do nothing and make a million thing - you actually have to use the knowledge given)
like myself, who acknowledges the fact that you can gather all this information out of various books and organizations, but paid for the convenience of having it taught to me in a classroom. Some people learn better this way, as opposed to self-study, which could take a year of reading to acquire all the information WG has to offer, given the repeat information in every single book you will encounter and have to sift through, just to glean one single unique idea out of 350 pages of text covering junk you already have read 10 times.

Then there are the people who have not attended the classes. These are the ones who should be reading these posts and judging for themselves whether or not they want to take the risk. They have a choice to read the books for themselves, or pay someone to listen to them say "here is how I did it." This is not a place for an ignorant person who has not attended the training to try and presume they know what it is that is being sold, or try and gripe and whine in order to get all this information for free. This is what you want, isn't it? For us to divulge every golden tip in order to convince just a couple of people that we are not fools for making our own decision, that we are not fools for choosing to pay the money and then still admit that we feel that is was worth it to us.

Obviously anyone that has anything good to say about anyone who took their money MUST be a shill. No one in this world is honest anymore. Hey, maybe the classes didn't even happen, and we sent our money and showed up to a class room where there was nothing more than a bunch of confused P**sed-off people. That MUST be the truth. (Please note the sarcastic cynicism overshadowing the previous statement.)

Make YOUR OWN decision. If you would rather save the money and spend the time reading and reading, you can get the same effect. Heck, you could even buy Russ's books and get a bit of knowledge about his experiences.

Or you could decide that time is more precious to you - you can always make more money.

It is a personal decision, and if you don't have first-hand knowledge about the company on the stand here, you are not doing anything to help other people make an informed decision. That's what this site is about - to share our EXPERIENCES - not to point fingers and accuse people you don't even know of being liars. I love the anonymity the internet provides. It makes the liars lie more and makes the nay-sayers more bold than they ever would be in person. Would you call me a shill to my face??? Don't answer yes, because until we meet, you never know.

The point is - if you don't believe it, go read a freakin book. That's your choice. Stop pretending you know about something or someone you have never seen.
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#54 Consumer Suggestion

Not all the facts

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

Assignments are all well and good IF (and it's a big if) you can get the property assigned. Generally, people sell properties below "market value" becuase they are worth less than market value. Due to needed repairs or other problems. Otherwise why would any one sell you a house for consideribly less than it is worth?

Those deals are needles in a haystack. Also, what happens if you cannot assign the sales contract????? Do you think you simply walk away? Also, you claim in one post that you made $9000 and in the next $7000. Are you aware of the tax issues involved with this profit?

Robin said, "As for what I learned through the WG, I learned what mistakes to avoid, how to stay committed, what types of mortgages are assumable, what types of financing is available, how to put together a finacial statement, how to interview a realtor,accountant, lawyer, and banks that would be willing to give a single mother with less than perfect credit financing."

All this info was available to you through you REIA for the $100. Also, you get input from people in the game. Whitney probably cost you at least $1600 for the seminar and another $2000 for the software (both estimates). Now, If you had only joind the REIA you would be $3500 ahead of the game.

The software is not worth the money paid because you can create your own criteria based spread sheet on your own. So why pay the $2000 for it? I can tell you now that there is no way you learned to "manage your own business" in three days. I have been in this business for a long time in multiple states and every state and every situation is different. They may have given you a blaket overview, but, so can a book that costs about$30.

Also, you claim to be working about 20 hours a week. I think that is an accurate number. However, look at other people claiming they had success with WIN. They claim they work 3 hours a week. That is impossible.
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#55 Consumer Suggestion

Not all the facts

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

Assignments are all well and good IF (and it's a big if) you can get the property assigned. Generally, people sell properties below "market value" becuase they are worth less than market value. Due to needed repairs or other problems. Otherwise why would any one sell you a house for consideribly less than it is worth?

Those deals are needles in a haystack. Also, what happens if you cannot assign the sales contract????? Do you think you simply walk away? Also, you claim in one post that you made $9000 and in the next $7000. Are you aware of the tax issues involved with this profit?

Robin said, "As for what I learned through the WG, I learned what mistakes to avoid, how to stay committed, what types of mortgages are assumable, what types of financing is available, how to put together a finacial statement, how to interview a realtor,accountant, lawyer, and banks that would be willing to give a single mother with less than perfect credit financing."

All this info was available to you through you REIA for the $100. Also, you get input from people in the game. Whitney probably cost you at least $1600 for the seminar and another $2000 for the software (both estimates). Now, If you had only joind the REIA you would be $3500 ahead of the game.

The software is not worth the money paid because you can create your own criteria based spread sheet on your own. So why pay the $2000 for it? I can tell you now that there is no way you learned to "manage your own business" in three days. I have been in this business for a long time in multiple states and every state and every situation is different. They may have given you a blaket overview, but, so can a book that costs about$30.

Also, you claim to be working about 20 hours a week. I think that is an accurate number. However, look at other people claiming they had success with WIN. They claim they work 3 hours a week. That is impossible.
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#56 Consumer Suggestion

Not all the facts

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

Assignments are all well and good IF (and it's a big if) you can get the property assigned. Generally, people sell properties below "market value" becuase they are worth less than market value. Due to needed repairs or other problems. Otherwise why would any one sell you a house for consideribly less than it is worth?

Those deals are needles in a haystack. Also, what happens if you cannot assign the sales contract????? Do you think you simply walk away? Also, you claim in one post that you made $9000 and in the next $7000. Are you aware of the tax issues involved with this profit?

Robin said, "As for what I learned through the WG, I learned what mistakes to avoid, how to stay committed, what types of mortgages are assumable, what types of financing is available, how to put together a finacial statement, how to interview a realtor,accountant, lawyer, and banks that would be willing to give a single mother with less than perfect credit financing."

All this info was available to you through you REIA for the $100. Also, you get input from people in the game. Whitney probably cost you at least $1600 for the seminar and another $2000 for the software (both estimates). Now, If you had only joind the REIA you would be $3500 ahead of the game.

The software is not worth the money paid because you can create your own criteria based spread sheet on your own. So why pay the $2000 for it? I can tell you now that there is no way you learned to "manage your own business" in three days. I have been in this business for a long time in multiple states and every state and every situation is different. They may have given you a blaket overview, but, so can a book that costs about$30.

Also, you claim to be working about 20 hours a week. I think that is an accurate number. However, look at other people claiming they had success with WIN. They claim they work 3 hours a week. That is impossible.
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#57 Consumer Suggestion

Not all the facts

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

Assignments are all well and good IF (and it's a big if) you can get the property assigned. Generally, people sell properties below "market value" becuase they are worth less than market value. Due to needed repairs or other problems. Otherwise why would any one sell you a house for consideribly less than it is worth?

Those deals are needles in a haystack. Also, what happens if you cannot assign the sales contract????? Do you think you simply walk away? Also, you claim in one post that you made $9000 and in the next $7000. Are you aware of the tax issues involved with this profit?

Robin said, "As for what I learned through the WG, I learned what mistakes to avoid, how to stay committed, what types of mortgages are assumable, what types of financing is available, how to put together a finacial statement, how to interview a realtor,accountant, lawyer, and banks that would be willing to give a single mother with less than perfect credit financing."

All this info was available to you through you REIA for the $100. Also, you get input from people in the game. Whitney probably cost you at least $1600 for the seminar and another $2000 for the software (both estimates). Now, If you had only joind the REIA you would be $3500 ahead of the game.

The software is not worth the money paid because you can create your own criteria based spread sheet on your own. So why pay the $2000 for it? I can tell you now that there is no way you learned to "manage your own business" in three days. I have been in this business for a long time in multiple states and every state and every situation is different. They may have given you a blaket overview, but, so can a book that costs about$30.

Also, you claim to be working about 20 hours a week. I think that is an accurate number. However, look at other people claiming they had success with WIN. They claim they work 3 hours a week. That is impossible.
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#58 Consumer Comment

Responding to Dan, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

AUTHOR: Robin - (U.S.A.)

In response to Dan's questions, at the three day conferance I learned how to put together a business plan and that it was possible to succeed. I learned the majority of what I know from the Whitney Group. I actually called and had many questions that were answered by the WG. The gentleman from Whitney that I had spoken with suggested that I look to see if there was a local group called REIA and enroll to further my knowledge about properties in my area.

I have only been to one group meeting for REIA and it did cost $100 to join for the year. What I found is that they have purchased many differant pieces of software from many organizations such as Whitney.

Let me ask you this Dan. If you had mastered a way to buy and sell homes and developed the software would you sell it?

The only people who feel scamed or ripped off is the people not smart enough to use the software once they purchase it. The software is tax deductable and if you use it I can promise you you will get a return on your money.

As for what I learned through the WG, I learned what mistakes to avoid, how to stay committed, what types of mortgages are assumable, what types of financing is available, how to put together a finacial statement, how to interview a realtor,accountant, lawyer, and banks that would be willing to give a single mother with less than perfect credit financing.

I learned how to manage my own business.

I am not saying that this is for everybody and I know that it is not. I purchased the software and was very sceptical because it took everything in my savings to purchase the software. Yes, it is true that it may be a little expensive but wouldn't you rather spend the $$ on something that works rather than less on something that didn't?

All I am saying is that you have to apply what you learn such as how to buy and sell on assignment. I learned this in the seminar and I will not have to put one penny down or have to pay for closing and just go in and walk out with a ck. Even if this is the only deal I walk away doing I will have made a $7000.00 profit.

In an assignment of contract you purchase a property that the seller is willing to sell or has to sell for a resonable price. The key is to get the property for a considerable amount less than what it could actually sell for on the normal market. (the property might need minor repairs) You have to make sure that you have an assignment clause in your contract. Then once you have agreed on a price list the property to target another buyer (such as an add in the paper that lists the selling price at still less than what the value of the home is) This will may it appeal to many buyers. Then you will negotiate a price with that buyer and assign the contract to him/her. Then when the home goes to closing you walk away with a ck. Do you understand now that it works?

I am thankful for what I have learned and I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But it does work.

I hope that this answers your questions.
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#59 Consumer Suggestion

Just the facts If this is not a scam I ask someone to give some details to prove it.

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

Here is another very vague reply. Give us some details. If the Whitney seminar is not a scam please tell us what you were taught and how you applied it to your purchase.

Robin, did you learn more from Whitney or your local REIA? Which one was less expensive and gave the most info? I would bet it was the REIA.

No one is claiming you cannot buy homes for zero down. We are claiming it is extremely risky and not easy to pull off. We are also claiming the info Whitney charges you thousands for is available for a small fraction of that elsewhere.

Notice that no one here or on other boards ever gives details of the purchase they made or the Whitney strategy they used to buy the property. If you made the purchase then explain the details to give it some credibility.

If this is not a scam I ask someone to give some details to prove it.
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#60 Consumer Comment

Not a scam!!!

AUTHOR: Robin - (U.S.A.)

In response to the above, I went to a Whitney seminar at the end of July 2004. I took notes and did in fact purchase the software. I have a full time job working 40 hours a week and also work about 20 hours a week looking for properties, making offers, and evaluating repairs and the profits of such properties and have been doing this for approx. 45 days. It does take time but if you keep working at this you will find that property. I am getting ready to close my first deal and will have a net bring home of $9000. That is more than I make in 4 months. I believe in the Whitney Corporation.

I recently joined a group called REIA (Real Estate Investment Assosiation) This group can also help you in achieving your goals. You "can" purchase real estate for 0 down. It does work but you have to be willing to work for it.

Nothing in this world is free and there is no such thing as easy money. You "will" have to work and be dedicated. This is a business and if you do not put time and money into a business it does not work.

For those of you who say this is a scame, try working for 20 hours a week at this. It is not hard and does take time. If I can do this anyone can.
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#61 Consumer Comment

My experience at the 3-day workshop

AUTHOR: Regina - (U.S.A.)

A couple of months ago, my husband's company sent him to some kind of motivational seminar, and there was a Whitney speaker there. My husband was caught, hook, line & sinker, right from the start. He paid for the 3 day workshop, and got a bunch of CD's and booklets and stuff. As he was planning on going to the workshop, listening to the CDs and watching the videos, I couldn't help but overhearing some of it. He was planning on taking a friend to the seminar, but after seeing some of the stuff, my alarms went off, so I insisted on going with him instead. I attended this seminar with a closed mind, intending only to keep my husband from getting scammed.

What I found at the workshop didn't surprise me. It is a 'teaser' course, where they give you just enough information to interest you into further classes.

Sales Pitch:
I did not feel like they spent an excessive amount of time on the sales pitch though. At the beginning of the workshop, they told us right up front that they are of course here to sell the advanced training, but that they would give us useful info as well and not harp on the sales. I did like this honesty. At the end of the second day, they gave us a price list for the courses and spent about an hour going over them, then told us even if we aren't purchasing, come back tomorrow and get the rest of the training you already paid for. On the 3rd day, they took people aside individually throughout the day to find out if they wanted the additional training. My husband and I said no, and they did not push.

Information:
During the 3 days, they did give alot of legitimate info on real estate investing. I took alot of notes, and most of the info can easily be found on your own, but you would have to do ALOT of homework to get it. Also, most of it leaves out the important small details, so if you were to jump in and do it without alot more study, you would probably find yourself in big financial trouble. They cram so much into such a small time, that without the notes, most people would not be able to retain any of it.

Personal Conclusion:
I think the courses are legitimate. They did tell us that it's hard work and requires a big level of commitment. I was dead set against this workshop, but by the end of the second day, they had gotten my attention, and I was considering advance training. (My husband of course, was all for it from the beginning, but he's such a sucker..lol) On the 3rd day, we made it clear that we were NOT interested in the advanced training...not because that was the truth, but because I wanted to find out what would happen, if they would use high pressure sales techniques or any of that junk. If they would have, I would have finished the day and that would have been the end of it. They did not pressure us however, and the staff continued to be friendly and treated us the same as the people who had already paid. About an hour before it was scheduled to end, my husband and I went ahead and purchased one of the advanced packages.

After the class was over, the staff pulled aside everyone who had purchased training, and talked to us about what would happen from here. They discussed how hard the training can be on our lives, considering each one takes 3-4 days, we would miss work and family, and have to pay for a airfare, hotel and food during that time as well. Then they spent almost another hour teaching us how to do the 'easy' deal, wholesale assigns. They taught that it does not profit as highly as everything else is touted to, but enough to help offset the cost of airfare and hotels, and to help us get our credit looking good and get us out of some of our consumer debt. They went into deep detail about wholesaling, gave us lots of notes, and gave us e-mail addresses to use to contact them prior to finalizing any deals, so they can make sure we haven't missed any small details. At this point, we have not gotten a response to the one email we sent this week, and were unable to contact anyone by telephone either. Instead we have recieved messages concerning the evacuation for the hurricane, with promises to return our call as soon as possible.

As soon as we attend some of the advanced training, I will be happy to post on here how it works out. If it is bad, I will tell you (as well as the BBB) and if it is good, I will tell you. We expect to be attending our first one in about a month and a half.
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#62 Consumer Comment

Details Please, Carol... you're not a shill, so prove it

AUTHOR: Sharon - (U.S.A.)

Carol,

You say you're not a shill, so prove it. Why don't you tell us what kind of financing you secured to purchase real estate in Costa Rica? Anyone can say I purchased 3 or 4 properties using this or that program.

As I noticed in your oringal posted message and your latest message, that there no details as to how you were able to purchase your properties, especially those in Costa Rica. Dan from New Jersey made some valid points regarding the kind of financing you were able to secure to make the purchases in Costa Rica.

It seems funny that you're saying that you're not a shill, but where is the proof?
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#63 Consumer Comment

Carol is a SHILL!

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

Carol please explain to us all how you were able to purchase two properties out of state and one out of country with only putting in 4 hours per month! If you have been doing this for 10 months that is 40 hours or one weeks work. IMPOSSIBLE!!!

You also claim to be buying trailers in Nevada to generate cash flow. Do you know the law in NV regarding this??? Obviously not!

I am partnered up with a company that handles land acquisition and development. Buying a property overseas, securing an LOC or financing, and doing your due diligence alone is full time work. Opening a chekcing account in Scotland has taken us over 3 weeks! We have purchsed property in Costa Rica and are working on two properties in Scotland.

Tell us all, who do you use to handle you due diligence in Costa Rica? Did you secure financing in the U.S. or in Costa Rica? What were you required to get via the state of NV before you could purchase the trailers? What county in FL did you purchase your property? Was $60,000 you take on the house all yours or did you pay out cap gains and penalties for early payoffs?

Anyone can say "I made huge profits on a property!" Give us some details so we know you are the real deal!
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#64 Consumer Comment

I paid the $2,000 - Here is what I got.

AUTHOR: Amber - (U.S.A.)

My Fiance' and I went to the free seminar. You have to be a fool to fail to consider that a "Free seminar" is just a sales pitch in a pretty box. Knowing that, we left our check books and credit cards at home.

They give you a little information that is useful, just to tease you. That is not wrong, it is a sales tactic. See it for what it is.

Then they say that they have "only 10 (or 30 or 40 or whatever) scholarships for sale right now." If you wern't first in line, you would not go home with the CDs and Books and Videos that night. We still weren't fooled. After the crowds dispersed, we went to a rep there and said we would not be able to pay for a few weeks. Do you think he turned a sale away? No way!

We could send them the money, and if paid before a certain date, we would be admitted into their scheduled 3-day class. Otherwise, we would have to wait until the next time they were in the area. Regardless, we would still get the materials in the mail after we paid.

We paid in time, got our materials, and went to the classes. They gave us a crash course on many subjects. There was substance in what they were teaching.

They discussed raising capital. There was a discussion on getting your credit limit on a credit card as well as lowering your interest rate. With this new free credit, you would have some money to get started. All you had to do is demand it from your credit card company.

I saw it with my own eyes. About 2/3 of the people who attempted it (that very moment) Had their interest rates lowered, some by more than half! About the same amount of people had success in getting their credit lines raised. This is something anyone can do, but the typical consumer is a pushover. They gave us a script to use when calling - and it works most of the time. It did not work for us, because we have special circumstances. But we used that information to help a family member, and it worked for her.

They touched on the subject of asset protection, and the importance of incorporating. They taught us how to use trusts to isolate your properties from eacother in the case of a law suit from a tenant.

They briefly discussed credit repair. They discussed methods of buying properties with no money down. They taught us what to look for in a property that would make it profitable - by increasing the "sweat equity" (The least amount of money in repairs that return the most gain in resale value. What types of damage to stay away from... etc)

They discussed ways to calculate how much to offer on a home, how to calculate the Net Operating Income of a rental or a complex, and how to find motivated sellers. They discussed how to reach a person in foreclosure when they are not answeing their phone...

Their seminar was VERY informationally intensive. That is what you are paying for - INFORMATION. Most of this information is available to you if you study many books. I don't believe they have any secrets to share, but they are pooling a lot of information into one place for you.

You need to take very good notes if you go. I filled 3 full notepads over the duration.

What did I get from it???

I have not been successful in purchasing yet. I am self-employed, my fiance is full time about to finish his second year there. Ye are both young and have Very POOR credit, and no capital to start with. We only have a $400 credit line and were very lucky to get a checking account.

We have the CDs and Books. We have an 800 number that we can call any time to talk to someone and get an "expert's" input. We have motivation and the knowledge that we did not have before the classes.

We took the classes in Feb. It is now July. We are cleaning up our credit through the methods they taught us (Which you can also find elsewhere... ) and are trying to save for a wedding. But we will have the knowledge forever, and the motivation whenever we want to tap into it.

We have not utilized every method they have taught. I believe that what they teach is substantial, but it is much harder if you are starting from below zero.

(I like to think) we are smart people and will put this knowledge to use in the future, after we are married, with better credit (we have yet to rise above 620, mind you) and a little capital to work with, for closing costs and such.

We have not made a penny back yet, but in my opinion, if we purchase one property in our lifetime that profits us $2000, or obtain a rental that makes us $120 a month, I will consider that to be a return on our investment.

This is an objective view from someone who has not gained anything from it. I did not lose $2000, I paid $2000 for an education. It is up to me to use it.
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#65 Consumer Comment

not a shill!!!

AUTHOR: Carol - (U.S.A.)

Of course it figures that if someone has anything good to say about this company they must be working for them. What a laugh!!! I am not an employee of Russ's company. My boyfriend and I work. I work for a large wholesale sub-prime mortgage company and my boyfriend works for the union for operating engineers out of seattle.

we have purchased 2 homes in flordia and made $60,000 each profit on them and we are buying a property in costa rica and not thru russ where we have a buyer already lined up to make us a profit of $250,000. We are also buying the little trailers that produce cash in vegas. we have purchased 2 with no cash down and they are owner carries.

so maybe we should have more but we are only doing this part time. about 4 hours a month. thanks for all the negative stuff guys, it just means more properties for myself and the ones who are not afraid to work. we have made all the money back that we have spent and then some.
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#66 Consumer Comment

Be Careful with Russ Whitney/Wealth Intelligent's Training

AUTHOR: Chris - (U.S.A.)

I have attended the 3day training last week and I felt somewhat cheated. I purchased the training ($1600)because I thought I would get specific information and advice to my personal situation as it was described in the "free" intro. seminar. Instead, the trainer used at 1/3 of the seminar time pushing for the "advance training" where "supposedly" all the details, advance, hands-on training would REALLY be.

To be honest, I did learn some good info and techniques from the 3day training; however, it is dishonest when they did not review the REAL intention was to push us to sign up for the "advance trainings" and the advance trainings are radiculously overpriced - $3500/per training per person but if we signed up for packages we can take a partner... the most expensive one was 35k with 11 training course and a mentor for 4 days, and the least expensive was $7500 for 2 courses. Be careful, my friends. Best regards.
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#67 Consumer Comment

Worked for me

AUTHOR: Samuel - (United Kingdom)

I just wanted to say that it worked for me, I have a poor education background but attended the Whitney course and have now got 23 properties. I had no credit history nor any assets in fact i owed loads to banks and my credit card companys had cancelled my cards. It may not work for everyone but with a little hard work it worked for me. I am writing this because it is only fair and just to have both points of view not just one.

Thank you for your time

P.s.In a great country like yours both sides of peoples speech should be heard.
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#68 Consumer Comment

'Shiling' is ILLEGAL - But The FTC Won't Stop It

AUTHOR: Morton - (U.S.A.)

I love when these paid Shills are nailed, however, as long as the FTC allows people like Whitney to do what they do with a wink and a nod, things eill NEVER change. We used to have very strong consumer protection laws and aggressive enforcement dating back to (Believe it or not) RIchard Nixon, but since Reagan and Bush systematically gutted these agencies, it as gotten worse and worse.

Whitney is the latest conman to ply his trade on the masses.

It is interesting how under the Clinton Adminstration, Conmen were prosecuted left and right, (Ed Beckley, Polk, McCorckle etc.) but under Baby Bush, all those investigations STOPPED! It is no wonder that most of these scammers are based in Utah and Florida.
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#69 Consumer Comment

A Shill Of A Hun

AUTHOR: Sharon - (U.S.A.)

To Carol from Missoula, Montana: Spoken like a true "Shill Of A Hun." You support everything that David said about his friend, a former employee of Russ Whitney. I take it that you've taken over his responsibilities of posting favorable comments for Russ Whitney's system. Isn't funny how most of the "Shills" always state that they have purchased 3 or for properties after just 3 - 5 days of attending Mr. Whitney's seminar. As a matter of fact, there was a report done about a few years ago regarding Mr. Whitney's $5,000 - $7,000 note purchasing course that stated that a LARGE percentage of Mr. Whitney's students failed. These students did everything that the course instructed them to do and then some. Even those students who were on Mr. Whitney's 30 minute informercial who claimed to make a substantial profit, actually barely made back the money they invested in the course.

To David from Cape Coral, Florida: I agree with you 100% about people posting positive feedback on rip-off scams. It is quite evident that they're paid shills in order to get more pigeons for the coop. It's a shame that people would falsify the success of a product, when in fact they know that product isn't worth the cost of air from the outdoors, just to get more people sucked in to a scam.

To Sande from Fort Meyers, Florida: Stopping the seminars sounds easier said than done. The best thing we could do for the general public is educate them of the scams that are out there and steer them to a site like The Rip-Off Report. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. I've heard many stories of how people would hear that different programs were a scam, but they still went ahead and ordered the plan anyway, stating that: "Oh, Mr. So and So just didn't work hard enough with the plan." They went in with their eyes wide open and got ripped off. By the way, I almost ordered a plan from The Zaken Company, but I happened to do a general search on AOL and stumbled upon The Rip-Off Report and read all of the negative complaints of all that were ripped off by "Mr. Zaken" -- I owe many, many thanx to The Rip Off Report, because I would've been ripped off, had I not stumbled onto this site.
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#70 Consumer Comment

Whitney supporters or employees

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

I have a friend that is a former Whitney employee. His job was to surf the internet and post favorable information about Mr. Whitney's programs on sites that contain complaints about Mr. Whitney.

If you look at any site on which there is a rebuttal to a Whitney complaint the pro-whitney posters all use very similar scenarios. They all found 3-4 properties 3-5 days after attending his seminar and all will generate a profit of approx $1000 each. Many use the Dr. analogy and many use the "same phone number for the last 20 years line" and often call those making the report "whiners" or accuse them of "killing others dreams".

My friend had a "cue card" of information that he used the same info on every site. Interestingly he was told to post 75% of the time as a woman as it made the post "more empowering".

I think sites like this are great for consumers and don't like to see the good info thrown off by bogus support claims.
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#71 UPDATE Employee

this is not a get rich quick scheme!!

AUTHOR: Carol - (U.S.A.)

I get so tired of people looking to get rich quick and then when they find something that requires, which you are told about from the very beginning, hard work and lots of sweat they freak out and say it is a rip-off. i have been in the mortgage industry for over 15 years and this is JUST ANOTHER TOOL TO USE in your desire to be self-employed. they tell you if you work it you can make money, they also tell you if you DON'T work it you won't. GEE, WHAT A CONCEPT!!!

just using the knowledge i learned in the free seminar, i have found in two days of working the system 3 properties. all are motivated and we will bring in a net income of around 3-3,500 per month for the 3!! we figured to keep living at the same income we are at now we need to have 15 rentals bringing a net income of $731 per month per property. that does not include what we will make off of wholesale,etc. and this is only from the information from the first seminar!!

we bought a package deal which includes wholesale, foreclosures and manufactured homes. comes with the millionare u and the mentoring program comes with it. sure it was a lot of money but this is a business and this is tax deductiable for your business so what have you lost? sure they try and sell you more, but after all we are adults and it is OUR decision to say yes or no. but remember this, when you go to school to be a doctor you can't stop at an assoc. degree(2yrs) and say oh great now they want more schooling to be a Dr.think about it. way to much crying and whinning. maybe those that do are the ones who won't make it and then there will be more for us! what a wonderful thought!have a great day!! :-)
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#72 Consumer Comment

In today's society, you must be careful in any dealings with ANY person or persons claiming to have "the answer" to your financial woes.

AUTHOR: Sande - (U.S.A.)

You cannot take it for granted that ANYONE'S plan for their financial deliverance is the answer which will work for you.

You must remember that when you attend any of the free seminars designed to inform you of a way to "relieve your financial burdens", they already know that your mind is open to learning an "easier" way to make money. Therefore, you are opening the doors to these people, allowing them access to your soul.

STOP going to the seminars, cut down their audience, and these types of individuals will dissappear on their own. Without an audience, they are dead in the water.

Make sense?
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#73 Consumer Suggestion

Stop the Russ Whitney Rip Off

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I went to a free seminar given by Whitney and saw several people giving away lots of money to become realestate millionaires.

I'm thinking there should be a way for some organization, like ripoffreport, to contact all the attorney generals in each state to give them the heads up regarding dishonest business practices of guys like Russ Whitney.

Thanks for letting me say my two cents worth.
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