• Report: #944170

Complaint Review: World clown association

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  • Submitted: Thu, September 20, 2012
  • Updated: Thu, September 27, 2012

  • Reported By: Angel — SAC California USA
World clown association
2711 centerville rd ste400 Internet United States of America

World clown association Rich Snowberg,Chd management , Andrew Moler manager Sponsored by a Malaysian federal grant2013 internet, Delaware

*Consumer Comment: Red Cross Is a Foreign Corp. In All States

*Author of original report: I Challenge you to find a vaid non profit for WCA

*Consumer Comment: Rebuttal

*Consumer Comment: World Clown Association is not regristed as a corp in NC

*Consumer Comment: Rebuttal

*Author of original report: Americans taking grants from Malaysia

*General Comment: HUH?

*Author of original report: Check corp search for DE.

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World clown association  has accepted a federal grant from Malaysia to hold their convention  in  ASIA 2013 according to their site. The members accepted a perposual, how is this possible when world clown association corp, became void in 2001 according to corp search. Bylaws were voted in 2012, again how is this possible.That would mean that world clown association has not been a non profit since 2001.They can not accept grants or gifts to the best of my knowledge for the past 11 years.There seems to be alot of grants and non profit status going on in this group all over the place.

Looks like a great way to destroy our economy and not pay taxes. Someone seems to be telling them what to do to beat tax laws.All in the name of volunteer, and non profit locations. What a rip off.This is all my personal opinion. This is not a small association alot of damage is being done in the name of Peace. People do not line their own pockets doing volunteer work, no dealers rooms, no vendors and sells of products, this is sooooooooooooowrong. You want to sell your products pay taxes like everyone else, and why bring Asis into this.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/20/2012 12:11 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/World-clown-association/internet/World-clown-association-Rich-SnowbergChd-management-Andrew-Moler-manager-Sponsored-by-a-944170. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
3Author 5Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

Red Cross Is a Foreign Corp. In All States

AUTHOR: Billy Bob - (United States of America)

A foreign corporation in a state means that the corporation was formed in one state but has applied to do business in a different state. The Red Cross, headquartered in Washington, DC is registered as a foreign corporation is ALL states.

It is my opinion that World Clown Association may need to register as a foreign corp. since they work every state and country. In that case they would be listed in every state but I know they are not listed as a foreign corp. in the three
states that they do business in. They are not found even in one. 

 A determination requires a legal decision based on careful analysis and court decisions, which have interpreted what constitutes transacting ordoing business in that state or country.  I do agree that we have the right to know where the parent company is located.  

It appears that their clown schools are all connected, the school in IN, California Clown Campin  in CA, New York Goofs in TX and the hospital Caring Clowns in PA. Since they all  have the same group of people and Mission Statement. Also, none of them are listed on Guide Star. 

Moosebuger Camp in MN is different since she is a for profit business, even though she has the same group volunteer at her camp. She actually has more responsibility for volunteers for it is frowned upon by FLSA because it is a profit company. If you want to read about non profits and compensation read Wikipedia, nonprofit and it will tell you that you cannot make personal profit on volunteer work. Just because people do it does not make it legal or ethical.

I say this in good faith and I am not an attorney.
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#2 Author of original report

I Challenge you to find a vaid non profit for WCA

AUTHOR: mae - (USA)

I Challenge anyone to find a vaid corp and non profit for World Clown Association for the past 11 years that it has been void in DE,I world like to call that state and check on it, I have already called, DE, Indiana, and NC, ALL say negative. Because they have run a non profit for the past 11 years accepting grants. With tons of sells going on in dealers rooms.Again I would like to say becides the millions of people who read rip off and the fact that rip off also sends this to watchdogs, this association has been sent to Irs to be reveiwed, so many are waiting for the correct answer, not just me. By the way this is public record, and why it should be on the Bylaws, bylaws says name, address.
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#3 Consumer Comment

Rebuttal

AUTHOR: William - (USA)

"About the location, a principle office location must be listed on the bylaws that were approved by the membership in 2012.".
Bylaws are simply internal rules for the organization.
http://www.redcross.org/images/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m8540073_Amended-and-Restated-Bylaws-Red-Cross.pdf
 are the bylaws for the American Red Cross and no where is their principle office listed. Does that make then an illegal organizations? Gosh I hope not.

As far as Guidestar goes. They get information from the IRS, and yes entities can update the information but the IRS received 990's are there to look at. So where is there a problem?

Volunteer - Vendor
I have volunteered my time teaching, then have a table set up in the vendor room. These are 2 separate things. Besides the FLSA does not apply to 1) Non-profits, and 2) Independent Contractors

Some schools allow those that volunteer to teach to setup a vendor table. They are not being paid to teach so they are volunteers. As a thank you they are allowed to setup as a vendor. There is nothing illegal about this. Others places you can volunteer to teach, then pay a fee to be a vendor. Either way nothing illegal.
You say all the vendor profits should go to the association. What about every single street fair, county fair,etc in the US. They are all non-profit and they have tons of vendors. does that money go to the fair?

As far as the Malaysian grant goes if you read their bylaws it states they should select sites where they have members including non-us sites. So the WORLD clown association follows their own bylaws and selects a site outside the US. Then gets a grant from that location to assist. How dare they.
Thanks for the lively debate. Have not had this much fun in a while. 
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#4 Consumer Comment

World Clown Association is not regristed as a corp in NC

AUTHOR: Billy Bob - (United States of America)

First I would like to say, that I looked on line in NC and World Clown Association is not listed there. Then I called state of NC and they also said it is not listed in NC.  The address in Cary NC belongs to Vicky Cross, the treasure of World Clown Association, and her husband, who is the director of education for World Clown Association. Strange since there is a lot of questions on the education issues. There are about 4 clown schools that can be tied to World Clown Association. I even checked with the county of Wake in NC and they also said it is not listed.

About the location, a principle office location must be listed on the bylaws that were approved by the membership in 2012.  This does not matter because no corporation record has been found in any state at this time for World Clown Association.   About Guide Star, it says in italics in the box to enter information such as name, EIN, City and State. It also says that people can give them information, and that the information is NOT verified by Guide Star. This seems very true regarding World Clown Association.

 About dealers rooms, Federal Fair Labor Laws say that volunteers are without compensation which seems to mean that money made in dealers room for these volunteers is illegal. So you may like buying products at dealers room but they cannot make money selling their goods as the profit should go to the Association. Anyway, you are proving her point; they are making money selling their goods there.  Anyway this is not your issue or hers, it is all up to IRS since it has been sent to them and it is there in the IRS codes. I agree with her on Malaysia, I think it is wrong also for Americans to get federal grants from Malaysia, it seems like that is are working against the US economy. First, the IRS will have to decide if World Clown Association truly is a legal association or a sham, then they can decide if the dealers can take the money. Hopefully more members wont pop up and claim that World Clown Association is registered in their state but it doesnt matter since the situation is in the hands of the IRS now.  I write this all in good faith.
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#5 Consumer Comment

Rebuttal

AUTHOR: Someone - (USA)

"I did not find world clown association on guide star because their bylaws said they are in DE, voted in on 2012, never did they say they changed this to NC" Bylaw stated they were founded in Delaware. Many Many Corporations are incorporated in Delaware but reside elsewhere.

"Guide STAR ask for location" Guidestar does not ask for location. On the front page you just enter the name and hit search.

"Now  I have to tell you I have a real issue with Americans taking federal grants from Malaysia. You may not agree with me, but it raises a question to me" WORLD Clown Association - enough said

"Because they are starting all of these clown schools  non profit and selling a ton of stuff in dealers rooms" So what. The vendors bring the items that the attendees will use. I enjoy going through the vendor rooms. It allows me to see the lastest, or pick up something I need. Granted there are things that I feel are over price, but I dont buy them. If you dont like what they offer, or do not like the price then do not buy. We live in a free trade society. Don't like it then dont buy it.

"All this is done in the name of non profit" Yep no argument there. Perhaps you had better look at your definition of a Nonprofit. I think you are confusing a nonprofit with a charity. In the United States something is defined as non-profit via IRS Code 26 USC 501(c). Under that there are 29 different classification. Only a 501(c)3 is charitable organization. That is the one you need to donate to to receive a tax deduction. All the rest are tax exempt non-profits. If you look on guidestar they are a non-profit, but that just means no stock holders and no individual profits from the association itself. All profits go back into the association

"Now you said I need to study non profits well you need to study labor laws. For volunteers do not get compensation, or they become employees" You can volunteer your time and allowed to be a vendor. This is 2 diffrent things. Even so the IRS has a 20 step test to determine employee vs independent contractor. This is called the common law test. The IRS even states that "There is no magic or set number of factors that makes the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination.

Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another". Even if someone is classified as an employee under the common law test the IRS has what is called the reasonable basis test. Which has 4 parts. If even 1 of the 4 is true then you have a reasonable basis to consider workers contractors vs employees. Point#4 States that if there is a longstanding widely recognized practice in an industry of treating similar workers as independent contractors  then you have a reasonable basis for treating workers as contractors.

By your own statement this goes on everywhere, at all the schools. Well then it is a widely recognized practice in the industry......enough said "for in my opinion they are vendors and it is a major rip off." Make up your mind are they employees or vendors. Because vendors are by their nature independent contractors Somewhere along the line someone must have made you mad Forgive, forget, and move on. Your ramblings are bringing in people that have nothing to do with what ever ticked you off in the first place.

The nice thing is that there is a venue to vent your opinions. Truly that is what they are. So far non of your complaints have been nothing more then opinions and have no basis in reality. In my humble opinion.
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#6 Author of original report

Americans taking grants from Malaysia

AUTHOR: mae - (USA)

I did not find world clown association on guide star because their bylaws said they are in DE, voted in on 2012, never did they say they changed this to NC. I even looked in Indiana were there manager lives Guide STAR ask for location..I believe that they have to not false advertise this information. People need to have this information. Now  I have to tell you I have a real issue with Americans taking federal grants from Malaysia. You may not agree with me, but it raises a question to me. Now on their form they say there revenue was 382,029. And there expenses were 347,521.to get the facts correct.  Now you said that I need to study non profit laws, well you need to study labor laws. Because they are starting all of these clown schools  non profit and selling a ton of stuff in dealers rooms . The clown school in Indiana  is a good example, moosebuger sells her costumes for 800 dollars a piece. I think they have deceived the good people of Indiana. All this is done in the name of non profit. It is all the leadership that runs these schools, this school also has a grant. California campin is another one of this groups ,not for profit, as well as new york goofs. All the same people. They have a real monapoly going on on google. They get all the clown students that call world clown assocation at the top of the page and google ads for these schools. Then they volunteer there time and get compensated in sells in dealers rooms. Now you said I need to study non profits well you need to study labor laws. For volunteers do not get compensation, or they become employees.  No one else could work as a group like this , 12 at a time teaching classes and not be employees.  Now the fact that they have times to follow and are controlled , again makes them employees, and not volunteers. I said it before and I say it again, IRS needs to take a hard look at this group, for in my opinion they are vendors and it is a major rip off. Someone is making alot of money, but I am not sure who that is at 7oo dollars a student. All I no is American economy does not seem to be getting much of it.
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#7 General Comment

HUH?

AUTHOR: Someone - (USA)

Must not have looked very hard on guidestar:

http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/23-2532598/world-clown-association.aspx

Also you should read:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4221nc.pdf

This will give you a better understanding of the IRS definition of a Non-profit.
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#8 Author of original report

Check corp search for DE.

AUTHOR: mae - (USA)

 You may be a corp in Indiana, but World clown association is a void corp in DE. You are not them, you are a manager  company only. And I am pretty  sure you are for profit. Were I got my information is off the entity details in DE records on world clown association. So if you think you only manage legal corp, guess again.You can not manage them under your corp name.This is not what their bylaws read,I have sent all of this to the I.R.S to settle including their  bylaws.  They say they are a non profit formed in DE, voted on in 2012.  and by the way they are not listed in Indiana, this was checked before this was sent out, so there is 11 years that are not covered. Do you want to call me a liar.  They also are not listed on I.R.S. site or Star guide, as world clown association.
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