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Report: #273950

Complaint Review: Cornerstone America - North Richlands Hills, Texas Texas

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  • Reported By: Wilmington North Carolina
  • Author Confirmed What's this?
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  • Cornerstone America North Richlands Hills, Texas, Texas U.S.A.

Cornerstone America ripoff North Richlands Hills, Texas Texas

*Author of original report: Just for fun...

*Consumer Comment: Thanx YOU !!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: by the way

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: by the way

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: by the way

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: to the woman who is about to start cornerstone

*Consumer Comment: T. Klein out of Dallas, Texas

*Author of original report: here you go

*UPDATE Employee: Steve you do more damage then help

*Consumer Suggestion: Any takers about mid-wests ppo

*UPDATE Employee: "REBUTTAL"

*Consumer Comment: I smelt it from a mile away

*Consumer Suggestion: Let's think it through.... think about the implications of these known facts company spams job-seekers

*UPDATE Employee: bubba inf m**o, IL

*UPDATE Employee: bubba inf m**o, IL

*UPDATE Employee: bubba inf m**o, IL

*Consumer Comment: non-specific as damning as the specific

*Consumer Comment: non-specific as damning as the specific

*Consumer Comment: non-specific as damning as the specific

*Consumer Comment: non-specific as damning as the specific

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: UPDATE clients

*Consumer Comment: In response to Susan and Lisa.

*UPDATE Employee: To answer your questions Steven

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Steven Hits the Nail on Head!!! Cornerstone Joke!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Dr. visits etc.

*UPDATE Employee: It just looks bad, but really isn't.

*Consumer Comment: State of Washington why was a cease and desist order issued on March 8, 2005

*UPDATE Employee: Dear Steve/NC...you were never an RSL!

*UPDATE Employee: Get your info before you post.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Not much better than a discount plan

*Author of original report: I fed myself

*UPDATE Employee: Now you are biting the hand that fed you!

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This is to all people who are interested in or have been associated with Cornerstone America. I started as a rep with them in 2001. I was promoted with great speed with the company. When I left I was a RSL. The reasons this company should be reported here are the fact that the insurance that is offered is SUB STANDARD and is one of the worst policies that I have seen. It is not major medical or even close. It is a Basic Surgical Expense Plan nothing more and a lot less. You can make a lot of money if you sell this garbage for more than it is. Botton line is that if you have any morals what so ever you can't in your right mind sell this to anyone. For all you non belivers out there ask this question... Would I have this insurance for me or my family... if the answer is NO then why sell it to less fortunate people. Last ask any rep to show you thier policy and check to see if it is effictive. You will be amazed at the response and excusses you get for them not having the coverage on themselves. The product has increased in price and reduced in bennifets and is extreamly overpriced for what it covers.

Respectuflly,

Steven

Steven
Wilmington, North Carolina
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/27/2005 01:36 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/cornerstone-america/north-richlands-hills-texas-texas/cornerstone-america-ripoff-north-richlands-hills-texas-texas-273950. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
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32Consumer
0Employee/Owner

#32 Author of original report

Just for fun...

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, January 14, 2007

If you want to see how these people work put a fresh copy of your resume' on one of the sites and you will keep getting invited to the "interview" they don't look for people they look for anyone that can fog a mirror and has $500.00 to get started....

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#31 Consumer Comment

Thanx YOU !!!

AUTHOR: Penny - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, January 13, 2007

I have recieved an offer from this cornerstone company, I have prev sales,Management and worked for a Health Ins.Co. But after reading into all of this I realized....a good company does offer to reimburse you back what you paid for the insurance classes once you've passed the exams and have proved your interest by taking the inital step by passing these courses.

I know because I had that offer once but at that time I had no $$ to put out of pocket or...I would have done it.

As for Cornerstone, I wont be accepting this offer. I did my research and see there is too much DRAMA and that is something I dont want to deal in..I will report as Spam and move on with my life for a respectful position, I do appreciate being able to come to this page and get educated..

THANKS :)

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#30 UPDATE EX-employee responds

by the way

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, October 23, 2006

BY THE WAY

what cornerstone does is highly illegal.

they require that agents buy there benefits and association dues. does anyone else here realize this is against the law??? they have been fined so many times for this. was everyone sleep in the law portion of their insurance exams or did you barely pass like most all cornerstonwannabe insurance agents. get a real job with a real company life met life or new york life. when i interviewed with them. itd was one on one. and it took weeks to actually get thre the interview process. they provide an office for you and pay a salary to start off with a commissino only basis to follow. THIS IS WHAT A REAL COMPANY DOES PEOPLE.

do any of you pay a monthly fee for errors and omissions?

do you know that this is common practice in all insurance?

you wanna know why you dont?

because if there is problems who is the INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR the client goes after??

YOOOOOOOUUU..

cornesone and midwest? in the clear. they have no control over you. its the law and they are in the clear. FACT they wont tell you this. but ask and see what you get.


wanna know why you dont fill out a w-2?

your not an employee.

i get benefits paid for. do you cornerstone contractor??? NO

you have to pay for association crap which is worthless.

quit defending this mob. they are a borderline unauthorized entity because they keep getting sued. if you people knew anything about insurance you would see that these people are not RESPECTABLE but good salespeople. not GOOD PEOPLE.


go to a real insurance company

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#29 UPDATE EX-employee responds

by the way

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, October 23, 2006

BY THE WAY

what cornerstone does is highly illegal.

they require that agents buy there benefits and association dues. does anyone else here realize this is against the law??? they have been fined so many times for this. was everyone sleep in the law portion of their insurance exams or did you barely pass like most all cornerstonwannabe insurance agents. get a real job with a real company life met life or new york life. when i interviewed with them. itd was one on one. and it took weeks to actually get thre the interview process. they provide an office for you and pay a salary to start off with a commissino only basis to follow. THIS IS WHAT A REAL COMPANY DOES PEOPLE.

do any of you pay a monthly fee for errors and omissions?

do you know that this is common practice in all insurance?

you wanna know why you dont?

because if there is problems who is the INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR the client goes after??

YOOOOOOOUUU..

cornesone and midwest? in the clear. they have no control over you. its the law and they are in the clear. FACT they wont tell you this. but ask and see what you get.


wanna know why you dont fill out a w-2?

your not an employee.

i get benefits paid for. do you cornerstone contractor??? NO

you have to pay for association crap which is worthless.

quit defending this mob. they are a borderline unauthorized entity because they keep getting sued. if you people knew anything about insurance you would see that these people are not RESPECTABLE but good salespeople. not GOOD PEOPLE.


go to a real insurance company

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#28 UPDATE EX-employee responds

by the way

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, October 23, 2006

BY THE WAY

what cornerstone does is highly illegal.

they require that agents buy there benefits and association dues. does anyone else here realize this is against the law??? they have been fined so many times for this. was everyone sleep in the law portion of their insurance exams or did you barely pass like most all cornerstonwannabe insurance agents. get a real job with a real company life met life or new york life. when i interviewed with them. itd was one on one. and it took weeks to actually get thre the interview process. they provide an office for you and pay a salary to start off with a commissino only basis to follow. THIS IS WHAT A REAL COMPANY DOES PEOPLE.

do any of you pay a monthly fee for errors and omissions?

do you know that this is common practice in all insurance?

you wanna know why you dont?

because if there is problems who is the INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR the client goes after??

YOOOOOOOUUU..

cornesone and midwest? in the clear. they have no control over you. its the law and they are in the clear. FACT they wont tell you this. but ask and see what you get.


wanna know why you dont fill out a w-2?

your not an employee.

i get benefits paid for. do you cornerstone contractor??? NO

you have to pay for association crap which is worthless.

quit defending this mob. they are a borderline unauthorized entity because they keep getting sued. if you people knew anything about insurance you would see that these people are not RESPECTABLE but good salespeople. not GOOD PEOPLE.


go to a real insurance company

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#27 UPDATE EX-employee responds

to the woman who is about to start cornerstone

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, October 23, 2006

DONT DO IT

You said only the people who fail hate this company. I work for a different company now and I can tell you this I was with the company for a year and made plenty of money. ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. Can you sleep with yourself knwoing if a child goes to the emergency room and it wont be covered or gets cancer or whatever and cant be treated? If you can then you should be shot and buried in a shallow grave because that is what it costs to work for cornerstone. I was involed in all their hype and pump you up bs. I was talking to a RSL in florida here recently when I was thinking about getting back into insurance and when I said I was checking out another company. He told me to check them out. the only think he could say about mid west is WE GOT LEADS! Thats all you will get. Its leads most of them old. That wont last because the product is s**t and the RSL knows it. It doesnt matter because when you quit which you will they will get all the overrides which puts money into their pocket at your expense. You need to learn more about insurance and how this game works. get your series 6 as well its puts more knowledge at your disposal.

Cornerstone wants you dumb and gullible. Dont fall for it. I did and it cost me my conscience and my relationship with my fiance. They are all out for your money. Not to protect families AT ALL. They dont give a flip. And this is what was cam eout an RSL's mouth. They say this when they trust you or they believe you too have no conscience.

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#26 Consumer Comment

T. Klein out of Dallas, Texas

AUTHOR: Jeremy - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, October 17, 2006

I too have had a Mr. Klein out of Texas email me saying we have reviewed your resume and feel you would be an excellent candidate for one of our sales positions, like everyone else, my employment background in no way matches what he was peddling.

When I declined, you think that would be the end, WRONG! Four to five months pass and I see on my caller ID several times a day (while I am at work) a phone number with no message left.

Well, this went on for several days and I finally was curious so dialed it back, only to have some rude person from UICI Marketing trying to set up an appointment for me to meet with Mr. Klein for an available job opportunity. I just hung up on her, the company is a joke and if they need to hire someone to scour the resume posting sites for victims, you know it can't be good! (Plus, the BBB has some info on them as well which wasn't good)

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#25 Author of original report

here you go

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, October 15, 2006

I have been out of the Cornerstone trap for a while now but am still in the insurance business representing a company that does what it says. As far a as District manager having a spot open for you, you know that if you can fog a mirror and have the money to get license you have an opportunity with Cornerstone. As far as the "products" are concerned ask yourself this?

Do I have this insurance for my family? The answer is always no. I have run across many agents in the field and it is always the same...mislead the consumer for the commission. I did make money with Cornerstone but I have to be able in my mind to offer consumers a product which I believe in and also be able to look in the mirror. I don't have the issues of well the policy does not cover this and that. If you have been in the hospital with a surgery you would know.

I did have a back operation and if I would have had the MID WEST Policy it would have cost me everything. I have BCBS and they paid just as they said they would no BS. If all you care about it making money then Cornerstone has that for you. I choose a higher road and am glad for it. I still make the money but with no regrets.

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#24 UPDATE Employee

Steve you do more damage then help

AUTHOR: Emina - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, October 14, 2006

I've read the commits to this report, and I've learned that people who are unhappy and that don't get their way get a gratification from tearing and destroying the one thing that they feel did them wrong.

I'm a recruiter for Cornerstone America, and I get a few letters from people that I send an invitation to; for our Orientation. That has visited this site. So I had to see for myself.
I believe you are a very unhappy person Steve and so is the person who said "if it smells like s___t".

Cornerstone America has been nothing but good to me, and they are not the only Health Company who will ask an individual to pay for their own schooling and license. Aflac does it too, and so do a lot of other companies.

When I went to my orientation for Cornerstone I didn't have a penny to my name, and the DSL there liked me and opened a position for me as Office help and Recruiter. I was able to save up money from this position to go to school and I'll be taking the test soon for my license.

I've seen nothing but good from this company, the only time I've heard or seen anything bad; would be from a person who could not make it as a sales Rep because he or she did not know how to make the business work. Most of the time it's because that person was too lazy and or didn't want to work for his or her dollar. You can't get it for free you know!!

So if you worked for Cornerstone America and could not make any money or if you believe the products are bad or for what ever reason you had a bad time with this company. It's not the company it's YOU! You're not a sales person and you don't know how to be an independent contractor (self business owner). So get over it and move on.

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#23 Consumer Suggestion

Any takers about mid-wests ppo

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, October 14, 2006

I personally stand in the middle of the road. All the complaints I have been reading are regarding one particular policy. I agree that the individual indemnity policy is on the weak side, with gaps in it. So the simple solution I have come up with is don't sell CAP (cover america plus).

There are still two other policies that have several stong sides. Yes, these policies have co-insurance maxs built in. I undstand that there are strong emotions on both sides of this issue. However just because one product has some problems, does not mean that the intire company is bad.

Also in my opinion the CAP policy has it's rightful place with a select minority of consumers. If a person is wealthy ( I would personaly put the limit at a net worth of 3 million or higher). And they want alot of control over their health care this type of policy has the most freedom.

I am not trying to defend either side, it just seems to me that there is some narrow minded head butting going on. Mid-West has more then just the policy discussed above, just make sure that if you are a consumer you talk with a knowledgable agent.

I am interested in hearing anything else about UICI that has nothing to do with the policy in question, because yes I do have a heart and have no intentions of puting a client is a bad situation.

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#22 UPDATE Employee

"REBUTTAL"

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, October 13, 2006

I have been with Cornerstone America for over 5 years and I have always found that they do exactally what they say they are going to do. Who can ask for anything more? They are the ultimate "honerable company". There is NEVER any attempt to cheat anyone.

I may "dis-agree" with some of our recruiting proceedures, but it has been explained to me this way:If we tell the recruites that this is a "commission only" position, they generally wouldn't come in to see what it is all about and someone who this would be a "perfect fit" for may miss the opportunity of their lifetime!

Frankly, if I had been told "commission only", I may not have attended the interview either. However, I did go and was VERY IMPRESSED! I did the "hiring pack" that week and havn't looked back since. The money stated was quite correct (I am proof) and I see it all the time for people who "stick with it".

The problems people run into in this business is that all people are individuals who do things and see things differently. This is not so much a "job" but a "contract position" where YOU are a self employed agent representing Midwest National Insurance's products (or Megalifes). We do all the necessary background checks to weed out the obvious "bad apples" but some of to non-obvious ones get through. If a unethical person wants to misrepresent our products to make a fast buck, gets fired for it (or is "told to resign") does that make the company bad?

I have over 1000 satisfied customers and I work mostly by referral. Most of these referrals are from people I insured years ago (and I still get paid every month when they pay their premium-that is how insurance works). I am very successful and very happy. I know I'm doing the "right thing" by my clients as they stay on my books. I sleep well at night. Whats wrong with that?

"Disgruntled" ex-agents and people who simply don't know any better are ALL of the people who have been saying negative things here. Some, I'm sure, are some of those "non-obvious bad apples" that got fired. What happens when one of these people gets canned? The "bad company" continues to pay them their renewal commissions for years while they are badmouthing us on sites like this.
To anyone who claims they worked for Cornerstone and if "Cornerstone is so bad" I say this:Return all the money we gave you (then I will listen)!....
Jason in Massachusetts

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#21 Consumer Comment

I smelt it from a mile away

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, July 16, 2006

I got an e-mail from cornerstone telling me that I might be qualified for a sales position. I never applied for the position, but I none the less I received the e-mail.

I called the number and set up an interview with a receptionist. I was setting up an interview and really knew nothing about the company, what they sold or how I would be compensated. I started to ask the receptionist questions. I ask her, "what will I be selling for the job? She told me it would be explained in the interview. I then asked her about pay. She responded again," you will be filled in during the interview". I told her that it was very strange to be going to an "interview" with no clue about the details of the position.

Then in a snappy and rude voice she told me, "well good luck with your career". At that point I knew I had made the right decision.

The bottom line is this. Reputable companies with real jobs to offer you, will not leave you in the dark about the position until the interview. With job opportunites the employer will make sure you know about the company, the details of the position and will answer any questions you might have before an interview.

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#20 Consumer Suggestion

Let's think it through.... think about the implications of these known facts company spams job-seekers

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, June 05, 2006

If you are considering working for Cornerstone, as did briefly flit through my mind, it might help you to think through the known facts, the facts that nobody disputes, and think about the implications of these known facts.

1) This company spams job-seekers. I have a Ph.D., and, trust me, my Vita and profile offer NOTHING that could even remotely be construed as a desire for a sales "opportunity." If you hate spam in your email inbox (as I do), then why would you want to work for any company that generates its sales force and initializes its "relationship" with you using this tactic?

2) Ask yourself why a company decides to generate a sales force this way. If the majority of its sales people stay with the company for the long term and are highly successful (as the initial spam contact with you suggests), then, given an ongoing spammed-in, warm bodies campaign, regional saturation will soon result; this is an obvious fact. Yet, consider the implications of this fact: as a region fills up with sales people for any particular product, then either the company has little concern for the cut-throat "darwinian" environment they have created for even "good but not the best" sales reps, or the company MUST stop accepting just any spam-generated warm body as a sales rep. Thus, Cornerstone's tactic of generating sales reps indicates nothing good for the company. Given how long the company claims to have been in business, particularly in major markets, it is quite clear that most of Cornerstone's new reps don't make it, and/or Cornerstone's attitude toward its reps is one of blithe indifference (after all, if you don't make it, there will be more spam-generated warm bodies after you).

3) The endless negative references to the lead-generation process in this and other Cornerstone threads on this site strongly indicate that Cornerstone does have an attitude of blithe indifference toward its reps: if you make it, great for both you and them; if you don't make it, oh well... a fresh load of warm bodies is on the way in. So, ask yourself how much support you think you will need to be successful as a sales rep. This company is pretty clearly not appropriate for the vast majority of sales people.

4) There are many references in this and other Cornerstone threads to the notion of the "right person." The "right person" will succeed with Cornerstone, while people who are not "right" will not. So, who are the "right people?" Well, the ones that succeed! (Which are the "fit" according to Darwin? The ones that survive.) How helpful is this to you as you wonder if Cornerstone is worth your advance time and money? Ask yourself: given that I have to pay in advance, and given that it is clear that I cannot EXPECT Cornerstone to support my efforts, HOW can I know if I am the "right person" to work at Cornerstone? Hmmm.... Well, if you are, then you will know it when you have succeeded (although this is only apparent after the fact, and does nothing to help you decide in advance). However, things are not so apparently simple if you are not succeeding. Since nobody "succeeds" from day one, you have to ask yourself how LONG it will be (and how much you will have spent) before you decide that you are the "wrong person" to work with Cornerstone. Worse, if the pro-Cornerstone posts are to be believed, if you turn out to be the "wrong person," you will come to recognize that fact only in retrospect, and then you will have "nobody to blame but yourself." So, again, you have to ask yourself if you are prepared for a "sales opportunity" that gives you this little advance indication of your possibility for success.

5) You pay repeatedly during your ongoing involvement with Cornerstone. This practice has been justified on other Cornerstone threads by saying that the company can't afford to train and license all the people who then drop out or otherwise turn out to not be the "right people." This practice and its justification should be enough to demonstrate the sort of relationship Cornerstone establishes with its reps. They will indiscriminately "hire" any warm body that will respond to their spam with up-front money, and then they will let "darwin" weed out the "wrong people." Of course, it would be better for all these spammed warm bodies if "darwinian" principles really did apply, but, unfortunately, there are a HOST of reasons for failure in such an environment, and the lack of proper screening and training methods certainly rank right up there.

I can't speak to the nature or quality of the products Cornerstone sells, since I have declined the "interview" and training sessions. There are certainly red flags on this front as well, though. The key point is to keep in mind that you are spammed into the company with no regard to your actual background or skills (in fact, in cases like mine, with obvious and utter DISregard to your background and skills). Yet, if you fail in such an environment, as the pro-company posts say, the fault is ENTIRELY yours! I conclude that it is better to just admit NOW that you are the "wrong person," and mitigate the "devastating" self-blame-game that will wash over you BY recognizing that even though you are a bad, bad, bad loser (nobody to blame but yourself)... at least you are a bad, bad, bad loser WITH hundreds of dollars more in your pocket than if you had "taken advantage" of this "great opportunity!" So, go ahead, blame yourself NOW and save your money!

I'm not denying that it is POSSIBLE to succeed with Cornerstone. However, it seems clear from the facts that for any given person the odds are VERY low, and YOU must pay to find out, because the company isn't actually investing anything in your success. Wouldn't you rather sell for a company that sought you out as an individual (knowing and caring something about your actual background and skills) and invested significantly of its own resources in your success (initially and on an ongoing basis), and thereby demonstrated that you were more to it than just another warm body passing through? I say again, just get it over with now: blame yourself in advance and save your money!

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#19 UPDATE Employee

bubba inf m**o, IL

AUTHOR: Kary - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006

I don't think you realize that we MUST have a salesforce in place for the businesses to run in America. I'm not ignorant nor do I feel that I'm persuading the ignorant. I give people the information, and leave the decision up to them. I do not push, or even nudge people into purchasing the product that I offer them. I have a college education, and was on the dean's list all through my college career.

I have not been with the company all that long, but so far with the research that I have done on my own, I have found nothing to encourage me to leave. I really don't care that you are an engineer or not. I don't treat people any differently based on their educational level. If the person is a decent human being, then I will treat them with the respect that they have earned.

Being a salesperson doesn't make you a sub-standard person. I am making an honest living, and I work very hard at it. I don't make a ton of money at it. But I have provided for my family thus far. I will continue to help people until and unless I find actual concrete evidence that this is not a reputable company. By your comments, it appears that you feel that you are superior to all others. I've got news for you, Bubba, you are not.

As far as the coverages, there is no policy out there that is fantastic. If there were one, it would cost a fortune and nobody would be able to afford it. The other companies are horrible. There are only 5 licensed insurance companies in the state of Idaho.
One of them has change the name on their door several times, and was on the financial watch list. The other two will raise your rates so high that a person that came down with a serious health concern could never afford it. Then there is MidWest and Mega Life. We will not raise your rates due to claims history. We will put you in a very large group to spread the risk. And that is the whole concept of insurance.

I know we are not perfect. But no company is. PERIOD.

Anonymous

Idaho

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#18 UPDATE Employee

bubba inf m**o, IL

AUTHOR: Kary - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006

I don't think you realize that we MUST have a salesforce in place for the businesses to run in America. I'm not ignorant nor do I feel that I'm persuading the ignorant. I give people the information, and leave the decision up to them. I do not push, or even nudge people into purchasing the product that I offer them. I have a college education, and was on the dean's list all through my college career.

I have not been with the company all that long, but so far with the research that I have done on my own, I have found nothing to encourage me to leave. I really don't care that you are an engineer or not. I don't treat people any differently based on their educational level. If the person is a decent human being, then I will treat them with the respect that they have earned.

Being a salesperson doesn't make you a sub-standard person. I am making an honest living, and I work very hard at it. I don't make a ton of money at it. But I have provided for my family thus far. I will continue to help people until and unless I find actual concrete evidence that this is not a reputable company. By your comments, it appears that you feel that you are superior to all others. I've got news for you, Bubba, you are not.

As far as the coverages, there is no policy out there that is fantastic. If there were one, it would cost a fortune and nobody would be able to afford it. The other companies are horrible. There are only 5 licensed insurance companies in the state of Idaho.
One of them has change the name on their door several times, and was on the financial watch list. The other two will raise your rates so high that a person that came down with a serious health concern could never afford it. Then there is MidWest and Mega Life. We will not raise your rates due to claims history. We will put you in a very large group to spread the risk. And that is the whole concept of insurance.

I know we are not perfect. But no company is. PERIOD.

Anonymous

Idaho

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#17 UPDATE Employee

bubba inf m**o, IL

AUTHOR: Kary - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006

I don't think you realize that we MUST have a salesforce in place for the businesses to run in America. I'm not ignorant nor do I feel that I'm persuading the ignorant. I give people the information, and leave the decision up to them. I do not push, or even nudge people into purchasing the product that I offer them. I have a college education, and was on the dean's list all through my college career.

I have not been with the company all that long, but so far with the research that I have done on my own, I have found nothing to encourage me to leave. I really don't care that you are an engineer or not. I don't treat people any differently based on their educational level. If the person is a decent human being, then I will treat them with the respect that they have earned.

Being a salesperson doesn't make you a sub-standard person. I am making an honest living, and I work very hard at it. I don't make a ton of money at it. But I have provided for my family thus far. I will continue to help people until and unless I find actual concrete evidence that this is not a reputable company. By your comments, it appears that you feel that you are superior to all others. I've got news for you, Bubba, you are not.

As far as the coverages, there is no policy out there that is fantastic. If there were one, it would cost a fortune and nobody would be able to afford it. The other companies are horrible. There are only 5 licensed insurance companies in the state of Idaho.
One of them has change the name on their door several times, and was on the financial watch list. The other two will raise your rates so high that a person that came down with a serious health concern could never afford it. Then there is MidWest and Mega Life. We will not raise your rates due to claims history. We will put you in a very large group to spread the risk. And that is the whole concept of insurance.

I know we are not perfect. But no company is. PERIOD.

Anonymous

Idaho

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#16 Consumer Comment

non-specific as damning as the specific

AUTHOR: Bubba - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, March 09, 2006

Cornerstone America Contacted Me about Sales

I wouldn't let Susan's comments about grammar and such distract you, it's an underhanded ploy. In college courses such as Critical Thinking, Logic, and Psychology, they teach you that people resort to these tactics to distract from the real issue at hand. It's supposed to shed a bad light on a person, therefore diminishing anything they have to say. In keeping with the theme, these same people will often resort to name-calling and even violence when their debating fuel is running low. It's a basic instinct that people resort to and demonstrates how close our ties are to the animal. It's a sign that they feel backed into a corner, so you're actually winning as long as you don't regress as well. In all fairness, name-calling is sometimes used as a punctuation mark in an ironical way, but we have other issues to address.

Folks, even the less specific is damning to this company. For example, I've had other companies contact me about a job only to discover they want to train me for a sales position. You know how they discovered me? They go to sites like Careerbuilder and Monster and send out spam emails across the board. Never mind that the person shows no interest in sales on their resume; it's up to the recruiter to decide for them the kind of life they should lead.

I had a company call me right after I graduated with one of my degrees and they invited me in for an interview. I went through this pseudo screening process which you basically passed as long as you didn't appear as though you slept in the dumpster out back. Then the important guy gets you in this big room to explain to you how great this position is. Hyperbole. When you ask questions like, How much should I expect to make? you hear how much he made last year. Oh, very useful. Then you find out that they really have no real vested interest in you. You have to spend your own money getting this or doing that, but they will supply you with leads. Of course, a company will almost certainly have something invested in you, but in the case of the company I just mentioned, the investment was negligible. That's the goal of many companies.

Let me tell you about leads. I knew somebody who sold lawn care. These high school kids would call people in the evenings, tell them that someone from the company would be in their area and would do this free lawn analysis for them and leave it on their doorknob. The high school kids had to make at least so many confirmations per night, so they fudged it. They would go through this quick dialogue and hang up before anybody had a chance to think or say anything. The results: salespeople were threatened, run off lawns, one had a gun pointed at him, so I guess they had to be quick as well. I bet that was some in-death lawn analysis.

Here are some of the issues my lawn salesman friend dealt with: If someone was concerned about their children or pets being on the lawn after it was sprayed, tell them it's okay after it dries. He said they had a fellow who sprayed lawns for them and had developed an infection in his leg from the chemicals; the infection would not go away. They paid this guy for years even though he didn't work for them just so he'd keep quiet.

If people brought up issues about how bad the chemicals were for the environment, you have some canned response and change the subject. The Internet was chocked full of bad press about the chemicals they were using. If some old, retired lady could not afford lawn care, you'd figure out a way to convince her that she really needed the service. If the spray wasn't watered in within a day or so, you pretty much were just throwing your money away. If you were on water restrictions, good luck. I heard too many stories to tell here. As a salesperson, my friend basically highlighted the supposed good and glossed over the bad.

Then there was the office politics. My friend eventually quit because he overheard his boss and the top sales guy talking quietly; the boss said they had 6 confirmed call-in sales and he was giving 3 of them to him and distributing the other 3 call-ins among 3 other salespeople. Call-ins are people who want you to come out and give them an estimate; it almost certainly translates into an easy sale. Any wonder why the guy had the top sales each week? The boss later handed one call-in to my friend and said something like, Now you're in the loop. In other words: now you're involved with the backroom politics. It's cutthroat.

If I asked you to picture someone who gets a door slammed in their face or a phone slammed down in their ear, who do you think of? If you said a salesman, you're not alone, and there's reason for that. They are inconsiderate, pushy people with a smile on their faces and an upbeat faade. They prey on ignorance. They thrive on ignorance.

Is it right to say all salespeople and sales positions are like this? No, absolutely not. But if you're in the Serengeti with 50 lions surrounding you and only one of them is docile, you're most likely doomed.

Cornerstone America contacted me about a sales position. Never mind the fact that I had posted absolutely nothing pertaining to sales on my resume. They just found my resume on Careerbuilder and thought I should help their cause by selling for them. In fact, it seems like they contact me whenever I update my resume. I assume they do a search for recently updated or added resumes and go to town. Here's my reply to them:

--------------

What is it with you people? You spam email people about sales positions without even considering the fact that the person isn't vying for a sales position. You don't care about the individual; you only care about the company. I'm a physicist with 3 engineering degrees. Why would I want to be some low-life salesman?

Your figures are unusable: Sales Rep can earn $100K+, Managers - $150K+

Can earn. Can. You could win up to $5,000. You may have already won. It's only $999.99 (i.e., besides the word only, the purchase will actually cost you around $1070, and that's just the up-front charges). Free Checking! (HA!) Psych you. Be honest and give people useful information: 2% of the people who have joined our organization have stayed with us for over a year. 0.73% has stayed with us for over 5 years. The average income for sales reps is $8,372 per year. I assume that you want people who don't know enough to ask those questions, or make those considerations.

With that in mind, I can only imagine that the majority of people working for you are relatively unintelligent, mindless drones. Doesn't sound like a group of people I'd like to associate with. Add to that the fact that I'd be embarrassed to call myself a salesman. I think of salespeople as the type who gets doors slammed in their faces and phones slammed down in their ears. Why? Besides being pushy and inconsiderate, their lives revolve around making people believe they need something they really don't need, and burying the fact that they could probably find a better deal.

Hey, I know! Market this! Tie something tight around your waist for a half-hour, remove it and tell people how they COULD lose inches off their figure! Oh, wait! That's already been done.

----------

Yes, it's the old can earn thing. I can be a racecar driver if I'd only train for 10 years, invest a crapload of money, and stay alive long enough.

Here's some good advice: If the company boosts about money, then money is probably all they are thinking about. Here's a snippet from my Cornerstone email: Sales have grown to more than $360 million annually and continue to rise at a rapid pace. If they have little or no vested interest in you, they are playing you for a chump. If you have to spend money to make money for them you figure it out. If they want you to sell something you wouldn't buy, walk away. If they use phrases such as can make as much as or tell you how much Barbara made last year, walk away.

Think about it. What kind of a plot would you get with one data points? How about a few data points? You sure won't see a trend. These people are basically giving you one data point. Ask them how many people have stayed with the company for more than a year. Ask them how many have stayed with the company for over 5 years. Ask them what the average annual income was last year for the people who did the exact same thing you're expected to do. Ask them to print this information out for you on their company letterhead. If they tell you they don't have that information, ask them why. Explain to them that if a company is really worth their salt, those figures should be impressive and you would expect them to boast about it. You don't need specifics about an individual; just an overview. I'd bet they divulge that information when frogs do fractions. I bet they have the information, or at least they should if they care about their company, but it's damning and you won't see it.

Ah, sales and marketing: The pseudo-intelligent hiring the ignorant to persuade the ignorant.

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#15 Consumer Comment

non-specific as damning as the specific

AUTHOR: Bubba - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, March 09, 2006

Cornerstone America Contacted Me about Sales

I wouldn't let Susan's comments about grammar and such distract you, it's an underhanded ploy. In college courses such as Critical Thinking, Logic, and Psychology, they teach you that people resort to these tactics to distract from the real issue at hand. It's supposed to shed a bad light on a person, therefore diminishing anything they have to say. In keeping with the theme, these same people will often resort to name-calling and even violence when their debating fuel is running low. It's a basic instinct that people resort to and demonstrates how close our ties are to the animal. It's a sign that they feel backed into a corner, so you're actually winning as long as you don't regress as well. In all fairness, name-calling is sometimes used as a punctuation mark in an ironical way, but we have other issues to address.

Folks, even the less specific is damning to this company. For example, I've had other companies contact me about a job only to discover they want to train me for a sales position. You know how they discovered me? They go to sites like Careerbuilder and Monster and send out spam emails across the board. Never mind that the person shows no interest in sales on their resume; it's up to the recruiter to decide for them the kind of life they should lead.

I had a company call me right after I graduated with one of my degrees and they invited me in for an interview. I went through this pseudo screening process which you basically passed as long as you didn't appear as though you slept in the dumpster out back. Then the important guy gets you in this big room to explain to you how great this position is. Hyperbole. When you ask questions like, How much should I expect to make? you hear how much he made last year. Oh, very useful. Then you find out that they really have no real vested interest in you. You have to spend your own money getting this or doing that, but they will supply you with leads. Of course, a company will almost certainly have something invested in you, but in the case of the company I just mentioned, the investment was negligible. That's the goal of many companies.

Let me tell you about leads. I knew somebody who sold lawn care. These high school kids would call people in the evenings, tell them that someone from the company would be in their area and would do this free lawn analysis for them and leave it on their doorknob. The high school kids had to make at least so many confirmations per night, so they fudged it. They would go through this quick dialogue and hang up before anybody had a chance to think or say anything. The results: salespeople were threatened, run off lawns, one had a gun pointed at him, so I guess they had to be quick as well. I bet that was some in-death lawn analysis.

Here are some of the issues my lawn salesman friend dealt with: If someone was concerned about their children or pets being on the lawn after it was sprayed, tell them it's okay after it dries. He said they had a fellow who sprayed lawns for them and had developed an infection in his leg from the chemicals; the infection would not go away. They paid this guy for years even though he didn't work for them just so he'd keep quiet.

If people brought up issues about how bad the chemicals were for the environment, you have some canned response and change the subject. The Internet was chocked full of bad press about the chemicals they were using. If some old, retired lady could not afford lawn care, you'd figure out a way to convince her that she really needed the service. If the spray wasn't watered in within a day or so, you pretty much were just throwing your money away. If you were on water restrictions, good luck. I heard too many stories to tell here. As a salesperson, my friend basically highlighted the supposed good and glossed over the bad.

Then there was the office politics. My friend eventually quit because he overheard his boss and the top sales guy talking quietly; the boss said they had 6 confirmed call-in sales and he was giving 3 of them to him and distributing the other 3 call-ins among 3 other salespeople. Call-ins are people who want you to come out and give them an estimate; it almost certainly translates into an easy sale. Any wonder why the guy had the top sales each week? The boss later handed one call-in to my friend and said something like, Now you're in the loop. In other words: now you're involved with the backroom politics. It's cutthroat.

If I asked you to picture someone who gets a door slammed in their face or a phone slammed down in their ear, who do you think of? If you said a salesman, you're not alone, and there's reason for that. They are inconsiderate, pushy people with a smile on their faces and an upbeat faade. They prey on ignorance. They thrive on ignorance.

Is it right to say all salespeople and sales positions are like this? No, absolutely not. But if you're in the Serengeti with 50 lions surrounding you and only one of them is docile, you're most likely doomed.

Cornerstone America contacted me about a sales position. Never mind the fact that I had posted absolutely nothing pertaining to sales on my resume. They just found my resume on Careerbuilder and thought I should help their cause by selling for them. In fact, it seems like they contact me whenever I update my resume. I assume they do a search for recently updated or added resumes and go to town. Here's my reply to them:

--------------

What is it with you people? You spam email people about sales positions without even considering the fact that the person isn't vying for a sales position. You don't care about the individual; you only care about the company. I'm a physicist with 3 engineering degrees. Why would I want to be some low-life salesman?

Your figures are unusable: Sales Rep can earn $100K+, Managers - $150K+

Can earn. Can. You could win up to $5,000. You may have already won. It's only $999.99 (i.e., besides the word only, the purchase will actually cost you around $1070, and that's just the up-front charges). Free Checking! (HA!) Psych you. Be honest and give people useful information: 2% of the people who have joined our organization have stayed with us for over a year. 0.73% has stayed with us for over 5 years. The average income for sales reps is $8,372 per year. I assume that you want people who don't know enough to ask those questions, or make those considerations.

With that in mind, I can only imagine that the majority of people working for you are relatively unintelligent, mindless drones. Doesn't sound like a group of people I'd like to associate with. Add to that the fact that I'd be embarrassed to call myself a salesman. I think of salespeople as the type who gets doors slammed in their faces and phones slammed down in their ears. Why? Besides being pushy and inconsiderate, their lives revolve around making people believe they need something they really don't need, and burying the fact that they could probably find a better deal.

Hey, I know! Market this! Tie something tight around your waist for a half-hour, remove it and tell people how they COULD lose inches off their figure! Oh, wait! That's already been done.

----------

Yes, it's the old can earn thing. I can be a racecar driver if I'd only train for 10 years, invest a crapload of money, and stay alive long enough.

Here's some good advice: If the company boosts about money, then money is probably all they are thinking about. Here's a snippet from my Cornerstone email: Sales have grown to more than $360 million annually and continue to rise at a rapid pace. If they have little or no vested interest in you, they are playing you for a chump. If you have to spend money to make money for them you figure it out. If they want you to sell something you wouldn't buy, walk away. If they use phrases such as can make as much as or tell you how much Barbara made last year, walk away.

Think about it. What kind of a plot would you get with one data points? How about a few data points? You sure won't see a trend. These people are basically giving you one data point. Ask them how many people have stayed with the company for more than a year. Ask them how many have stayed with the company for over 5 years. Ask them what the average annual income was last year for the people who did the exact same thing you're expected to do. Ask them to print this information out for you on their company letterhead. If they tell you they don't have that information, ask them why. Explain to them that if a company is really worth their salt, those figures should be impressive and you would expect them to boast about it. You don't need specifics about an individual; just an overview. I'd bet they divulge that information when frogs do fractions. I bet they have the information, or at least they should if they care about their company, but it's damning and you won't see it.

Ah, sales and marketing: The pseudo-intelligent hiring the ignorant to persuade the ignorant.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#14 Consumer Comment

non-specific as damning as the specific

AUTHOR: Bubba - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, March 09, 2006

Cornerstone America Contacted Me about Sales

I wouldn't let Susan's comments about grammar and such distract you, it's an underhanded ploy. In college courses such as Critical Thinking, Logic, and Psychology, they teach you that people resort to these tactics to distract from the real issue at hand. It's supposed to shed a bad light on a person, therefore diminishing anything they have to say. In keeping with the theme, these same people will often resort to name-calling and even violence when their debating fuel is running low. It's a basic instinct that people resort to and demonstrates how close our ties are to the animal. It's a sign that they feel backed into a corner, so you're actually winning as long as you don't regress as well. In all fairness, name-calling is sometimes used as a punctuation mark in an ironical way, but we have other issues to address.

Folks, even the less specific is damning to this company. For example, I've had other companies contact me about a job only to discover they want to train me for a sales position. You know how they discovered me? They go to sites like Careerbuilder and Monster and send out spam emails across the board. Never mind that the person shows no interest in sales on their resume; it's up to the recruiter to decide for them the kind of life they should lead.

I had a company call me right after I graduated with one of my degrees and they invited me in for an interview. I went through this pseudo screening process which you basically passed as long as you didn't appear as though you slept in the dumpster out back. Then the important guy gets you in this big room to explain to you how great this position is. Hyperbole. When you ask questions like, How much should I expect to make? you hear how much he made last year. Oh, very useful. Then you find out that they really have no real vested interest in you. You have to spend your own money getting this or doing that, but they will supply you with leads. Of course, a company will almost certainly have something invested in you, but in the case of the company I just mentioned, the investment was negligible. That's the goal of many companies.

Let me tell you about leads. I knew somebody who sold lawn care. These high school kids would call people in the evenings, tell them that someone from the company would be in their area and would do this free lawn analysis for them and leave it on their doorknob. The high school kids had to make at least so many confirmations per night, so they fudged it. They would go through this quick dialogue and hang up before anybody had a chance to think or say anything. The results: salespeople were threatened, run off lawns, one had a gun pointed at him, so I guess they had to be quick as well. I bet that was some in-death lawn analysis.

Here are some of the issues my lawn salesman friend dealt with: If someone was concerned about their children or pets being on the lawn after it was sprayed, tell them it's okay after it dries. He said they had a fellow who sprayed lawns for them and had developed an infection in his leg from the chemicals; the infection would not go away. They paid this guy for years even though he didn't work for them just so he'd keep quiet.

If people brought up issues about how bad the chemicals were for the environment, you have some canned response and change the subject. The Internet was chocked full of bad press about the chemicals they were using. If some old, retired lady could not afford lawn care, you'd figure out a way to convince her that she really needed the service. If the spray wasn't watered in within a day or so, you pretty much were just throwing your money away. If you were on water restrictions, good luck. I heard too many stories to tell here. As a salesperson, my friend basically highlighted the supposed good and glossed over the bad.

Then there was the office politics. My friend eventually quit because he overheard his boss and the top sales guy talking quietly; the boss said they had 6 confirmed call-in sales and he was giving 3 of them to him and distributing the other 3 call-ins among 3 other salespeople. Call-ins are people who want you to come out and give them an estimate; it almost certainly translates into an easy sale. Any wonder why the guy had the top sales each week? The boss later handed one call-in to my friend and said something like, Now you're in the loop. In other words: now you're involved with the backroom politics. It's cutthroat.

If I asked you to picture someone who gets a door slammed in their face or a phone slammed down in their ear, who do you think of? If you said a salesman, you're not alone, and there's reason for that. They are inconsiderate, pushy people with a smile on their faces and an upbeat faade. They prey on ignorance. They thrive on ignorance.

Is it right to say all salespeople and sales positions are like this? No, absolutely not. But if you're in the Serengeti with 50 lions surrounding you and only one of them is docile, you're most likely doomed.

Cornerstone America contacted me about a sales position. Never mind the fact that I had posted absolutely nothing pertaining to sales on my resume. They just found my resume on Careerbuilder and thought I should help their cause by selling for them. In fact, it seems like they contact me whenever I update my resume. I assume they do a search for recently updated or added resumes and go to town. Here's my reply to them:

--------------

What is it with you people? You spam email people about sales positions without even considering the fact that the person isn't vying for a sales position. You don't care about the individual; you only care about the company. I'm a physicist with 3 engineering degrees. Why would I want to be some low-life salesman?

Your figures are unusable: Sales Rep can earn $100K+, Managers - $150K+

Can earn. Can. You could win up to $5,000. You may have already won. It's only $999.99 (i.e., besides the word only, the purchase will actually cost you around $1070, and that's just the up-front charges). Free Checking! (HA!) Psych you. Be honest and give people useful information: 2% of the people who have joined our organization have stayed with us for over a year. 0.73% has stayed with us for over 5 years. The average income for sales reps is $8,372 per year. I assume that you want people who don't know enough to ask those questions, or make those considerations.

With that in mind, I can only imagine that the majority of people working for you are relatively unintelligent, mindless drones. Doesn't sound like a group of people I'd like to associate with. Add to that the fact that I'd be embarrassed to call myself a salesman. I think of salespeople as the type who gets doors slammed in their faces and phones slammed down in their ears. Why? Besides being pushy and inconsiderate, their lives revolve around making people believe they need something they really don't need, and burying the fact that they could probably find a better deal.

Hey, I know! Market this! Tie something tight around your waist for a half-hour, remove it and tell people how they COULD lose inches off their figure! Oh, wait! That's already been done.

----------

Yes, it's the old can earn thing. I can be a racecar driver if I'd only train for 10 years, invest a crapload of money, and stay alive long enough.

Here's some good advice: If the company boosts about money, then money is probably all they are thinking about. Here's a snippet from my Cornerstone email: Sales have grown to more than $360 million annually and continue to rise at a rapid pace. If they have little or no vested interest in you, they are playing you for a chump. If you have to spend money to make money for them you figure it out. If they want you to sell something you wouldn't buy, walk away. If they use phrases such as can make as much as or tell you how much Barbara made last year, walk away.

Think about it. What kind of a plot would you get with one data points? How about a few data points? You sure won't see a trend. These people are basically giving you one data point. Ask them how many people have stayed with the company for more than a year. Ask them how many have stayed with the company for over 5 years. Ask them what the average annual income was last year for the people who did the exact same thing you're expected to do. Ask them to print this information out for you on their company letterhead. If they tell you they don't have that information, ask them why. Explain to them that if a company is really worth their salt, those figures should be impressive and you would expect them to boast about it. You don't need specifics about an individual; just an overview. I'd bet they divulge that information when frogs do fractions. I bet they have the information, or at least they should if they care about their company, but it's damning and you won't see it.

Ah, sales and marketing: The pseudo-intelligent hiring the ignorant to persuade the ignorant.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#13 Consumer Comment

non-specific as damning as the specific

AUTHOR: Bubba - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, March 09, 2006

Cornerstone America Contacted Me about Sales

I wouldn't let Susan's comments about grammar and such distract you, it's an underhanded ploy. In college courses such as Critical Thinking, Logic, and Psychology, they teach you that people resort to these tactics to distract from the real issue at hand. It's supposed to shed a bad light on a person, therefore diminishing anything they have to say. In keeping with the theme, these same people will often resort to name-calling and even violence when their debating fuel is running low. It's a basic instinct that people resort to and demonstrates how close our ties are to the animal. It's a sign that they feel backed into a corner, so you're actually winning as long as you don't regress as well. In all fairness, name-calling is sometimes used as a punctuation mark in an ironical way, but we have other issues to address.

Folks, even the less specific is damning to this company. For example, I've had other companies contact me about a job only to discover they want to train me for a sales position. You know how they discovered me? They go to sites like Careerbuilder and Monster and send out spam emails across the board. Never mind that the person shows no interest in sales on their resume; it's up to the recruiter to decide for them the kind of life they should lead.

I had a company call me right after I graduated with one of my degrees and they invited me in for an interview. I went through this pseudo screening process which you basically passed as long as you didn't appear as though you slept in the dumpster out back. Then the important guy gets you in this big room to explain to you how great this position is. Hyperbole. When you ask questions like, How much should I expect to make? you hear how much he made last year. Oh, very useful. Then you find out that they really have no real vested interest in you. You have to spend your own money getting this or doing that, but they will supply you with leads. Of course, a company will almost certainly have something invested in you, but in the case of the company I just mentioned, the investment was negligible. That's the goal of many companies.

Let me tell you about leads. I knew somebody who sold lawn care. These high school kids would call people in the evenings, tell them that someone from the company would be in their area and would do this free lawn analysis for them and leave it on their doorknob. The high school kids had to make at least so many confirmations per night, so they fudged it. They would go through this quick dialogue and hang up before anybody had a chance to think or say anything. The results: salespeople were threatened, run off lawns, one had a gun pointed at him, so I guess they had to be quick as well. I bet that was some in-death lawn analysis.

Here are some of the issues my lawn salesman friend dealt with: If someone was concerned about their children or pets being on the lawn after it was sprayed, tell them it's okay after it dries. He said they had a fellow who sprayed lawns for them and had developed an infection in his leg from the chemicals; the infection would not go away. They paid this guy for years even though he didn't work for them just so he'd keep quiet.

If people brought up issues about how bad the chemicals were for the environment, you have some canned response and change the subject. The Internet was chocked full of bad press about the chemicals they were using. If some old, retired lady could not afford lawn care, you'd figure out a way to convince her that she really needed the service. If the spray wasn't watered in within a day or so, you pretty much were just throwing your money away. If you were on water restrictions, good luck. I heard too many stories to tell here. As a salesperson, my friend basically highlighted the supposed good and glossed over the bad.

Then there was the office politics. My friend eventually quit because he overheard his boss and the top sales guy talking quietly; the boss said they had 6 confirmed call-in sales and he was giving 3 of them to him and distributing the other 3 call-ins among 3 other salespeople. Call-ins are people who want you to come out and give them an estimate; it almost certainly translates into an easy sale. Any wonder why the guy had the top sales each week? The boss later handed one call-in to my friend and said something like, Now you're in the loop. In other words: now you're involved with the backroom politics. It's cutthroat.

If I asked you to picture someone who gets a door slammed in their face or a phone slammed down in their ear, who do you think of? If you said a salesman, you're not alone, and there's reason for that. They are inconsiderate, pushy people with a smile on their faces and an upbeat faade. They prey on ignorance. They thrive on ignorance.

Is it right to say all salespeople and sales positions are like this? No, absolutely not. But if you're in the Serengeti with 50 lions surrounding you and only one of them is docile, you're most likely doomed.

Cornerstone America contacted me about a sales position. Never mind the fact that I had posted absolutely nothing pertaining to sales on my resume. They just found my resume on Careerbuilder and thought I should help their cause by selling for them. In fact, it seems like they contact me whenever I update my resume. I assume they do a search for recently updated or added resumes and go to town. Here's my reply to them:

--------------

What is it with you people? You spam email people about sales positions without even considering the fact that the person isn't vying for a sales position. You don't care about the individual; you only care about the company. I'm a physicist with 3 engineering degrees. Why would I want to be some low-life salesman?

Your figures are unusable: Sales Rep can earn $100K+, Managers - $150K+

Can earn. Can. You could win up to $5,000. You may have already won. It's only $999.99 (i.e., besides the word only, the purchase will actually cost you around $1070, and that's just the up-front charges). Free Checking! (HA!) Psych you. Be honest and give people useful information: 2% of the people who have joined our organization have stayed with us for over a year. 0.73% has stayed with us for over 5 years. The average income for sales reps is $8,372 per year. I assume that you want people who don't know enough to ask those questions, or make those considerations.

With that in mind, I can only imagine that the majority of people working for you are relatively unintelligent, mindless drones. Doesn't sound like a group of people I'd like to associate with. Add to that the fact that I'd be embarrassed to call myself a salesman. I think of salespeople as the type who gets doors slammed in their faces and phones slammed down in their ears. Why? Besides being pushy and inconsiderate, their lives revolve around making people believe they need something they really don't need, and burying the fact that they could probably find a better deal.

Hey, I know! Market this! Tie something tight around your waist for a half-hour, remove it and tell people how they COULD lose inches off their figure! Oh, wait! That's already been done.

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Yes, it's the old can earn thing. I can be a racecar driver if I'd only train for 10 years, invest a crapload of money, and stay alive long enough.

Here's some good advice: If the company boosts about money, then money is probably all they are thinking about. Here's a snippet from my Cornerstone email: Sales have grown to more than $360 million annually and continue to rise at a rapid pace. If they have little or no vested interest in you, they are playing you for a chump. If you have to spend money to make money for them you figure it out. If they want you to sell something you wouldn't buy, walk away. If they use phrases such as can make as much as or tell you how much Barbara made last year, walk away.

Think about it. What kind of a plot would you get with one data points? How about a few data points? You sure won't see a trend. These people are basically giving you one data point. Ask them how many people have stayed with the company for more than a year. Ask them how many have stayed with the company for over 5 years. Ask them what the average annual income was last year for the people who did the exact same thing you're expected to do. Ask them to print this information out for you on their company letterhead. If they tell you they don't have that information, ask them why. Explain to them that if a company is really worth their salt, those figures should be impressive and you would expect them to boast about it. You don't need specifics about an individual; just an overview. I'd bet they divulge that information when frogs do fractions. I bet they have the information, or at least they should if they care about their company, but it's damning and you won't see it.

Ah, sales and marketing: The pseudo-intelligent hiring the ignorant to persuade the ignorant.

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#12 UPDATE EX-employee responds

UPDATE clients

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, March 09, 2006

You have just busted yourself. If you know so much about the company why would you write an attorney? Aren't they on the list of professions which UICI does NOT underwrite? Why do you think they don't write attorneys? Is it because they know they will be suied? If you are truly explaining the products and limits I comend you, however you and I both know that a very large part of the org. does not and has been taught not to disclose this info. You must be a one of a kind with UICI.

Steven

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#11 Consumer Comment

In response to Susan and Lisa.

AUTHOR: Dennis - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, March 09, 2006

If it smells like s**t... and looks like s**t... then it's most likely s**t !!!

It wasn't until I started reading all the rebuttals, especially the ones from Susan and Lisa, that things started smelling and looking a lot more like that pile of well you know.

I came across this company when I was asked to interview with them, and due to their completely ambiguous response to my rsum, I started to research them before I accepted an interview. I had no clue what the company did until I started my research.

Thank all of you who rebuked Steve's report.
And I thank God I live in America, where we can speak so freely and where there's a web site like this one.

REMEMBERif it smells like ? and looks like ? then it most likely is ?
That's what my Daddy taught me, and it hasn't let me down yet, so I'm sticking to it.

Sincerely,

Mr. Big Nose

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#10 UPDATE Employee

To answer your questions Steven

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 21, 2005

Steven,
I've cut and pasted so I don't lose track, so forgive me if things get out of whack.

1.)Ask yourself this question, how many plans do you sell with the min. benefit?

If I had to guess, I'd estimate about 50%. However, it's not for lack of explanation of the limitations. Rather it has a direct connection with the clients I routinely deal with. I do a lot of work in areas that "nobody else wants". Meaning, they don't have a lot of money, the agent isn't going to make any money because of this lack, and typically they are being kicked off of Medicaid and have to have something.

I do explain how limited what they are paying for is, and they are fully aware. These are the same clients that I "hand hold" through every move they make, rather than making them call 1-800-press4. I do everything in my power to help my clients maximize their benefits, no matter how limited they may be.


2.)How about the outpatient max.
Yes, I explain this too. I do try to show the pros and cons of all features, and have found myself in an appointment for several hours just so that I was reassured that the client knew exactly what was going on. Still even further, when the actual policy comes in the mail, I will go out and walk them through it.

I realize they have a 10 "free look" and I want them to understand that too. Maybe not all agents feel this way, but I do. It's a shame when people feel as though all reps of company xyz are bad because there are those of us out there that truly do work our behinds off to help.


3.)If you explain the very limited benefit of the plans you are selling only a person with little smarts would buy it.

Not so. I'm sorry you feel this way. I have Dr's, Vet's, Mortgage Brokers, Realestate agents, attorneys and many other professional people within my client file. I would hate to think that we, as educated people, can't be trusted to make an informed decision about health insurance, but we would trust them with their own professions dealing with us. My own Dr, has a policy with me. He loves it. **does he pay for Dr's visits on his policy? of course not silly. ha ha, joke**

4.)As far as doctor visits go we both know that if you did sell it it would come back to bite you in the rear. a $50.00 or $75.00 benefit is not worth paying for.
On this issue, I actually agree. No matter what though, there are always people that want this benefit no matter how you explain the math on paper. My original DSL was a great one for this. He showed exactly what the differences were.

However, I usually do suggest the wellness benefit. Sniffles are one thing but a yearly physical (speaking as a woman) is a different ball game. I'm willing to pay the premium for the benefit because of how quickly this one visit can add up.

5.)I will leave you with one thought and would entertain a conversation about why you think that UICI only recruits people who have NEVER been in the insurance business. Is it because any person with any intelegence would not put themselves in this position. Just wondering???

I do understand what you are saying. But what you have to understand is that I've been in sales my entire life. Every "new sales venture" company that I've ever worked for, before/during/after college, wanted people that had little to no training in that particular field, so that they could train them the way they wanted. What they didn't realize when they hired me, was that I came with many years of sales experience a BA in Psych and a MBA.

Listen Steve, I know what you're thinking. It's all about the money. But truly it's not. If it were about the money, I would have left 6 months ago. I like what I do. I like the company I work for. I like the people I work with. I like the clients that I have and meet everyday. I want to put them in a better position than what they are currently in. **typically with insurance rather than without,,,, or with insurance they can afford rather than bankrupt on premium**.

I know that you have stated that you started with the company in 2001, but I don't know when you left the company. I do know that the policies have changed tremendously over the years and I have witnessed some of them, making a lot of the max payouts larger and different configurations so that the clients get more for their money.

All I can say is in the area I do business in, people can't afford a lot. I do the best I can for them. (please don't come back and tell me to send them to someone else.. If I had not of already researched the prices and payouts of other companies for these clients, I would never recommend my product).

Finally, not all of us are out just to make a buck. Some of us really do care.

Have a great day!

**as for Anon in Chicago.. Your insults continue to pursue me from thread to thread. Again, as I have stated on another thread, your name calling tactics are uncalled for. Your credibility has been lost on me and your attempt at validation has turned to nill. I ask again that you refrain from calling me names, as you do not know me**

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#9 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Steven Hits the Nail on Head!!! Cornerstone Joke!!!

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, September 20, 2005

Susan and Lisa,

I feel soooooo sorry for you both, that you couldn't find the right path -what a d**n shame!!
Steven, whether a former RSL or not is 100% correct. You morons are peddling a CRAPPY Basic Hosptial Plan with HUGE GAPS...GAPS is not even the word...CRATERS! Your education of the health insurance business has been limited to the BS you were brainwashed with @ Cornerstone. Isn't is great to have a HIP account....an account that will soon be worthless. Yes, worthless when the ship sinks. I give it 3 yrs, and you're sunk. Whether you get out with your stock or not, you still have your Creator to answer to. Answer for all of the SUB STANDARD crap you sold to unsuspecting people. How many bankruptcies or financial problems will you have created by the time your 10 yrs is up?? Don't care do you?? You've already compromised your Soul! Be prepared to see more and more of the TRUTH being posted on sites such as Ripoff. We'll tell the world the truth of your "organization". I've said it before, Mid-West & Mega Agents: GET OUT NOW! Make a GOOD HONEST LIVING as an Independent Agent, work with REPUTABLE companies, Acually provide QUALITY coverage for your clients. Retain their business for years to come. Don't believe how "hard it is" to sell other companies. It's not hard at all. And the money? It's fantastic! Can you underwrite a 300lb man that smokes with high blood pressure? Wonder why Mega and Midwest can??? Because they're only covering 1/20 of a claim? Yes, that's why they'll accept your obese, smoker, HIGH RISK customer. I could go on and on. I'll do that later when the next IDIOT Cornerstone agent attempts to defend their pathetic, greedy, sinful organization.

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#8 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Dr. visits etc.

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, September 20, 2005

Lisa,

Ask yourself this question, how many plans do you sell with the min. benefit? How about the outpatient max. If you explain the very limited benefit of the plans you are selling only a person with little smarts would buy it. As far as doctor visits go we both know that if you did sell it it would come back to bite you in the rear. a $50.00 or $75.00 benefit is not worth paying for. I will leave you with one thought and would entertain a conversation about why you think that UICI only recruits people who have NEVER been in the insurance business. Is it because any person with any intelegence would not put themselves in this position. Just wondering???

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#7 UPDATE Employee

It just looks bad, but really isn't.

AUTHOR: Lisa - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, September 20, 2005

About the Cease and Desist order in Washington State. It's very easy to understand if you understand the paperwork that each state requires.

There are documents that have to be signed that is called a "disclosure form". The original disclosure form was designed and approved by Washington state in 1997. THEIR criterion changed and Cornerstone had to follow up with a revised disclosure form that matched the states NEW expectations. At that juncture, the Cease and Desist order was issued until this new form could be agreed upon by all parties.

Here is a snippet from one of the articles that discussed this issue.

**UICI Pledges to Work to Resolve Issues in Washington State
Representatives of MEGA have been engaged since October 2004, and they will continue to engage, in a good faith dialogue with the Washington Department of Insurance in an effort to resolve issues with respect to use of a policy form that was initially approved by the Washington Department of Insurance in 1997. UICI has also voluntarily terminated sales of a similar product issued by Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of Tennessee (a sister company of MEGA), pending resolution of the open issues with the State of Washington Department of Insurance.**

If there was truly an issue, Washington State would have pulled the policy completely and never bothered to have any dialogue, let alone a "good faith" dialogue. When you speak about a company without giving all the facts, it is therefore an attempt at slander. That is bad form. Insurance companies get sued and reviewed all the time. As a matter of fact our company "invites" reviews because in truth we have nothing to hide.

Steven,
I don't know you or your history, however again you are mispresenting the product. You are describing the very minimum of benefit if the client decides that's what they want. That, my dear friend, is the beauty of our policies and services. It is completely customized for the individual, their family and their budget. I have many clients that tell me "we don't need Dr's visits". Therefore, Dr's visits are not added to the plan. As a result, the plan is both more affordable and they are not FORCED into paying for catagory "A,B, C" policy, when they don't/won't use half of the things they are paying for. It is then, in my opinion, that not only are our ethics above and beyond the rest, but a more economical approach to health care, which in turn would be driving those same costs down, rather than up.

Thanks for your time.

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#6 Consumer Comment

State of Washington why was a cease and desist order issued on March 8, 2005

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, June 18, 2005

Susan,

If UICI has no problems in Washington State, then why was a cease and desist order issued on March 8, 2005, prohibiting UICI from selling health insurance product in the state? All you have to do is check with UICI as they have issued a press release pledging to work to resolve issues in the state, going so far as to quote Wiliam Gedwed regarding his disspointment with Washington's actions. You should try to have your facts straight before you attack somebody else for being innacurate.

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#5 UPDATE Employee

Dear Steve/NC...you were never an RSL!

AUTHOR: Susan - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, June 13, 2005

Using an fake name in a fake state with a fake position. RSL's don't quit. They become ASL's or retire with TONS of money in their HIP NATIONAL BANK. You were never an RSL in NC. Fraud!

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#4 UPDATE Employee

Get your info before you post.

AUTHOR: Susan - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, June 13, 2005

We ARE selling in Washington. We are not under investigation in 24 states. We were being audited just like every other inurance company/agency in the world. The audits are complete and clean and our stock is on it's way up AGAIN. Steve was never an RSL in NC...he lied...and you are just another disgruntled person who could not cut the mustard. Don't play in my sandbox. I'll send you home with your toys.

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#3 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Not much better than a discount plan

AUTHOR: E - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, June 12, 2005

Okay, the bottom line is that UICI products are very, very weak. Products with internal limits are the main reason for the increase in health-related bankruptcies in this country. There is a reason that UICI can no longer sell in Washington and why they are under investigation in 24 other States. You can spin it any way you want, but the products are weak.

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#2 Author of original report

I fed myself

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, June 12, 2005

One last thing I resigned I did not get fired.

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#1 UPDATE Employee

Now you are biting the hand that fed you!

AUTHOR: Susan - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, June 11, 2005

I've been with Cornerstone since 2002. I don't recall a Steven from NC who was an RSL. Maybe that's because you didn't do a lot for the company, so now you want to blame the products we sell. You claim to have risen to the top at warp speed selling those products. If they are so inferior, were you lying to your customers? Perhaps you were. I understand several NC reps got fired recently for ethics violations. But you want to blame our products on your demise. So Steve from NC gets fired for misrepresenting our products, and now the only revenge he can get is to trash the very same products he was selling.

Here are the facts, folks. When a rep is SMART and knows how to put the package together properly so that the client is covered and has everything they need, everybody goes home happy. The good/smart reps can actually SELL without cutting corners. But STEVE from NC isn't all that smart. How do I know? Look at his post. He can't spell and his grammar is atrocious. Yet, his revenge is to attack MY company that has always treated me with respect and dignity.

Lying salespersons should NEVER be rewarded with promotions. This guy is proof positive.

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